June 19, 2025 • 55 mins
Come and listen to Host Tina Spoletini chat with today's guest Scotti Moser on her podcast Confidence in Bloom on the Divas That Care Network.
Scotti Moser is a transformational coach specializing in helping women break free from the toxic effects of narcissistic parenting.
With her compassionate guidance, she empowers women to rediscover their authentic selves, regain their confidence, and reclaim their passion for life. Scotti has created proven strategies for emotional healing, boundary-setting, and building resilience, providing her clients with the tools to live with peace, power and purpose.
https://www.facebook.com/scottimosercoaching/
https://www.instagram.com/scottimosercoaching
https://www.linkedin.com/in/scotti-moser/
Scotty Moser reveals how narcissistic parenting creates patterns that follow women into adulthood, affecting their careers, relationships, and sense of self-worth. Unlike other discussions of narcissism that focus primarily on romantic relationships, Scotty helps us understand how parental narcissism creates deep-seated unconscious vows that limit our potential.
• Narcissism isn't becoming more common – we're just getting better at recognizing it
• Key traits of narcissistic parents include lack of empathy and treating children as objects that exist to serve them
• Adults raised by narcissistic parents often adopt four unconscious vows: to conform, to people-please, to be invisible, and to be perfect
• These vows serve as protection but create barriers to authentic success and happiness
• Breaking free requires both mental work (understanding narcissistic patterns) and physical work (releasing trauma from the body)
• When you begin healing, expect potential backlash from narcissistic family members who may see your growth as threatening
• Setting boundaries with narcissists often requires having clear consequences and being prepared for them to test those boundaries
• Recovery may require limiting contact with narcissistic family members who refuse to change
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Divas that Care Radio Stories, strategies and
ideas to inspire positive change.
Welcome to Divas that Care, anetwork of women committed to
making our world a better placefor everyone.
This is a global movement forwomen, by women engaged in a
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To find out more about themovement, visit divasthatcarecom
(00:25):
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After the show.
Right now, though, stay tunedfor another jolt of inspiration.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
One just has to pick up a magazine or turn on a
television to see that, as women, we are bombarded daily with
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What's most alarming is the waythis affects young girls.
(00:55):
A reduced sense of self-worthcan create anxiety, stress, even
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In direct contrast, confidencein Bloom is designed to
reinforce the truth and reassureevery woman who has ever felt
inadequate, unworthy or tossedaside because of how she looks,
(01:19):
that no matter her age, shape orbackground, you matter.
You are enough.
Now I, tina Spoletini, a womanof substance, insist women
deserve to be happy, confident,successful and totally in love
with themselves in their ownbodies, just the way they are.
Through an ongoing series ofintriguing conversations with
(01:39):
women from all walks of life,who are all extraordinary in
their own right, we will embarkupon a journey of ultimate
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Together, we'll share stories,laugh, learn, maybe even shed a
few tears when it becomes clearjust how far many women have
come to realize how wonderfullife is when you stand in your
(02:00):
own power, feeling fantastic inyour own skin.
In your own power, feelingfantastic in your own skin.
Scotty Moser is my guest today.
Scotty Moser is atransformational coach
specializing in helping womenbreak free from the toxic
effects of narcissisticparenting.
With her compassionate guidance, she empowers women to
rediscover their authenticselves, regain their confidence
(02:23):
and reclaim their passion forlife.
Scotty has created provenstrategies for emotional healing
, boundary setting and buildingresilience, providing her
clients with the tools to livewith peace, power and purpose.
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Scotty, thank you, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, so I want to talk, okay.
So I mean you're what you coachon narcissistic parenting, that
is.
That's a whole new conversationwe all know about.
You know narcissistics andmostly in my experience it's
been talked about mostly in likeromantic relationships, right,
(03:04):
boyfriends, husbands, mainlyhusbands.
I know my daughterunfortunately had a relationship
with a boy.
You know he was 21 and you knowshe was 21 or 22, like super
young, and it was like scary,like I was worried for her life,
let alone.
You know.
You know just her feelings andher heart.
(03:26):
So I mean, it's it's it's asensitive subject, but it's also
something that I think we areall living with in some degree,
wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yes, definitely, it is everywhere, and some would
say that it's becoming moreprevalent.
That's not my view.
My view is it's always beenhere.
We're just now recognizing it,so it feels prevalent, but we're
.
In my view, it's progressbecause we're recognizing the
behavior and we're saying thisis unacceptable for where, for
(04:00):
centuries and generations, ithas just been our normal.
So I think we're reallystepping forward for humanity
when we start to recognize thistype of behavior.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I was kind of feeling the same way, like what's
happening today that is so likecommon, I guess, is the word
right Like, but I think you'reright.
When we look back, it was aman's world and when a man was
narcissistic, you know, thewomen just sort of played the
part to keep him happy, to avoidwhatever he might do.
(04:37):
I mean, we all know, like womenare narcissistic as well.
In fact, I heard a commentyesterday and I don't remember
where it was, but we are allnarcissistic, right, like, we're
all capable and havenarcissistic behaviors.
It's just a matter of you know,if you, if you have an open
mind and you can explain thiseven better, I'm sure of it.
(04:58):
But if you have an open mind,then you can get control of your
, of your feelings, or you don'treact the way you know
narcissists react.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yes, we are.
I would agree to that to adegree.
It's a spectrum narcissisticbehavior.
So you have mild narcissistsall the way up to really severe
narcissists and even lower onthat spectrum.
Below mild narcissist is ourselfish, self-preservation
instinct right, we all have tohave some degree of self and
(05:35):
meeting our desires and puttingourself first to survive, and
that's not a bad thing.
When it crosses the line intomanipulating others,
dehumanizing others and totallynot having anyone else's
interest but yourself at heart,then in my opinion that's when
(05:58):
it crosses over into a problem.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Right, absolutely to a problem, right, Absolutely.
So now we're going to get intothe whole parent part of this
conversation, because I mean, wecould talk about narcissistics
and their traits for hoursbecause there are, like there's
such a huge spectrum.
But let's, let's dive into thewhole parenting aspect of this,
because I've never really lookedat it as you know a
(06:23):
narcissistic parent and how thatwould affect your kids.
So let's, let's talk about thatand and how it affects, like a
life, someone's life.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yes, the characteristics of a
narcissistic parent and how theyshow up in the child's lives,
the first thing being lack ofempathy and when I say lack of
empathy it's a euphemism.
It went over my head for a longtime and it goes over other
people's heads.
It means they don't care aboutthe impact their actions are
(07:00):
having on you.
Their world is built for themand around them.
So, as a child, this is reallydisheartening and damaging,
because you have a parent that'streating you like a
refrigerator.
They need you to serve them.
And what's so interesting to meand I've only really started to
(07:21):
think about it in this way isthis concept was kind of the
standard of parenting ageneration or two ago.
Right, children were to be seenand not heard.
They were there to meet theparents' needs, and I think that
really caused a lot of damageto our culture and our society
(07:41):
as a whole.
To treat children as objects tobe taken off a shelf and to be
trotted out at certain occasionsand then put back on the shelf
like they don't even existthat's really dehumanizing.
You don't feel like you matterand that's a real, that's a
founded belief.
You actually don't matter thatmuch to that parent.
(08:04):
You matter as a piece of aprize for them or a piece of
their collection, and so theyhave that low empathy piece.
They also and this is goingalong they're very entitled.
They don't see this behavior aswrong or in any way any problem
.
They see themselves as superior, which is really easy and often
(08:25):
culturally supported.
And there are a lot of lines towalk when you're doing this as a
parent.
But narcissistic parents feelsuperior and their children are
inferior.
And I'm not saying that parentsdon't get to be in charge and
set reasonable boundaries.
It's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about that energy,that feeling, and you know it
(08:46):
when you're in it as a kid, yourlisteners, if they were in it,
they're nodding.
That parent was superior, theiropinions were superior, their
ideas were superior, theirthoughts and preferences were
superior and you were treated asless than as inferior.
And so those are a couple ofways that the narcissistic
(09:07):
traits can show up in thechild's life If you are
experiencing that type ofparenting that sounds like
actually really scary and Ithink you know in the coaching
world we hear a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Right Like the parents felt it was like they
had to make everyone around themhappy and so if that was at the
expense of their kids, so be it.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Right?
Oh, absolutely.
And you know you're workingwith people and you're
uncovering their blocks, and Idid this for many years before I
even had a clue about theconcept of narcissism.
You know, we go into the blocks, and I was always the parent
and I couldn't get a handle onwhy it was coming up over and
(09:52):
over again, until I eventuallyrealized that this was a culture
.
This wasn't a one of incidentor something that instilled this
false belief.
This is something this personexperienced day after day for a
couple of decades, and so itreally has an impact, and we
don't always see that impact,because it's our reality.
(10:14):
The fish doesn't see the waterright.
That's just how life is.
That's just how people treat us.
That's how people are.
So there's a leap to be taken,a consciousness leap, between
what is my reality.
Is it this crazy town ordelusional denialville that I
experienced, or is there perhapsa different reality that I can
(10:36):
create?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Wow, wow, yeah, yeah, exactly Like, and that explains
how, like I remember growing upand hearing you know, women
marry their dads, right, and soit totally explains like if your
dad was narcissistic, you know,then you would, you would reach
out to that like you're goingto be attracted to that because
that's all you know, right?
(10:59):
Yeah, that totally clears thatup for me.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, that feels really familiar and so you're
not going to question thatbehavior or that reality of what
they're putting out.
Where someone else that hasn'thad that grooming or that
experience in childhood toaccept that behavior.
They're going to get spun outof that narcissistic person's
orbit in a month or two,whatever it is six months a year
(11:26):
because there's going to startquestioning the behavior and
standing up to the behavior andthe relationship.
The relationship is not goingto survive any questioning or
any anything like that.
Any of you standing up foryourself, so groomed by the
fathers to come into thisrelationship and accept this
behavior and on and on.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, oh, it.
Just I mean it, it, it, it,like it's all making sense to me
, and especially like with mydaughter going through it.
It only lasted like threemonths and luckily, right, you
know, but it was you know.
That answers that question, too, why she was able to get out of
it so quickly, because moststories that I hear it's like
(12:11):
marriages, so, like you know,you marry into it and then you
raise your kids in that and allthe things, and she was, like
you know, quickly, was able topull herself out.
So you know, I mean, clearly myhusband and I are not not
narcissistic, because otherwiseshe wouldn't have known the
difference, right, oh, wow, thisis a great conversation.
So I want to ask you what ledyou to specialize in coaching
(12:34):
professional women that arerecovering from these
narcissistic relationships?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Well, like many of your listeners, I was a box
checker, I call it.
I checked all of the boxes.
I survived my childhood.
One of my coping mechanisms wasbeing perfect and trying harder
, and so I got good grades.
I was in a lot ofextracurricular activities.
I went to college and got goodgrades there.
(13:02):
I went to law school same.
I got the prestigious law firmjob after graduation and I
worked at that for a couple ofyears.
But I knew it didn't fit right.
I knew I didn't want to bethere in 20 years.
I didn't want what they had.
So I quit with my business orbusiness partner who also worked
there, and we started our ownfirm, and that went really well
(13:25):
too for quite a while.
And I found myself really stillstruggling.
I had gotten the house andgotten married and I had had a
child, but I still had all ofthese sensations inside.
I was anxious a lot of the time.
I was overwhelmed a lot of thetime.
(13:46):
I was constantly worried aboutfinances and survival and where
my next client slash paycheckwas coming from, and it was
really debilitating.
It wasn't minor and I had toldmyself that I was going to
outgrow it, that if I could justcheck these boxes and get a
little older, get these things,create this reality.
(14:09):
Then I would outgrow it.
And there was a come to Jesusmoment when I was 36 years old
and I was actually had a childand I was pregnant with my
second, when it occurred to me,after an anxiety breakdown,
panic attack, that this mightnot be something that I was
going to outgrow.
(14:29):
Why hadn't it happened yet?
There might be something moreto this story, and that's when I
really wanted to eat, pray,love my way out of this
situation.
I wanted to go to Italy andBali and India and really figure
it out in a glamorous way.
But you have heard my situation.
(14:51):
That clearly wasn't happeningto me.
Can't even imagine a vacationof that magnitude with a
two-year-old.
That wasn't happening and Irealized I had to take my
journey on the inside and Istarted to read books.
I took coaching classes and itlooked like reading or listening
(15:13):
to videos and courses while thebaby slept on my shoulder and I
started coaching other women inthe same situation that I was
and it looked like pumping andthen running up to my office to
coach.
It wasn't glamorous, it wasn'tpretty, but I was able to make
lots of headway and figure outwhat was going on.
(15:36):
I was still.
I was making progress, but Icould feel that I wasn't getting
to the root of the root of it.
For both myself and my clients.
It was like we were trees andwe're chopping off unwanted
branches.
We were really pruning, butthey would just grow back and I
knew I wasn't getting to thatroot of it.
And then one day I was scrollingthrough YouTube and the
(16:00):
universe lives in YouTubesometime right and a video
popped up on my screen and thetitle of the video I remember it
clearly was how to setboundaries with difficult people
.
And I listened to it and Idon't remember anything about
the boundaries or the steps oranything about that.
But what she did talk about wasthe concept of narcissism and
(16:24):
how those types of people aredifficult and boundaries are
going to be difficult andprobably won't ultimately work.
You'll probably have to takesome dramatic steps.
Won't ultimately work.
You'll probably have to takesome dramatic steps.
And I thought, aha, narcissism,what is this?
(16:45):
And I started researching andeducating myself on that concept
and that was the root, thestructure that ran through my
life and my clients' lives, andit was supporting and it was the
engine driving all of thesetoxic patterns of people
pleasing, of perfectionism, ofanxiety, of being invisible,
never good enough at that root.
(17:06):
We had been dancing around itup top, but the root was decades
of narcissistic abuse that hadset up this reality in our mind
that we were never questioning.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Oh my goodness, right Like so.
All this time you didn't evenreally know what you were facing
Really.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
No, I had no idea.
I thought I had a tumultuousbut fairly and you know, I will
truly believe that the truth wasthat I had a very normal
childhood.
I did not have a healthychildhood, but I don't think
that what I experienced was allthat unusual.
My parents did not physicallybeat me, they were emotionally.
(17:47):
My father was emotionallyunavailable and very
manipulative.
I was definitely that appliancethat was there to serve him and
my mom was neglectful andenabling.
She orbited around him.
All of her energies that shehad left were focused on keeping
him happy, because if he wasn'thappy he would rage.
(18:10):
He would have verbal tirades,big, scary.
He was a big guy and there wasthese big, scary emotional
temper tantrums over thelittlest things, if he didn't
like dinner, if something wasoff, if he couldn't find
something.
Those were all big triggers.
So I was not physically abused,but I walked on emotional and
(18:30):
psychological eggshells fordecades and I hadn't questioned
that.
I hadn't.
I knew in my head that it wasunpleasant, but I did not
realize that it was stillaffecting me into my late 30s.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, it became your normal right, like if it was
like, like you said, you lived anormal childhood.
And the thing is, you don't,like we all know what's going on
in our four walls, but we haveno idea what's going on in the
four walls that are livingbeside us, and so you don't know
that.
You know the guys, the familybeside you is really living a
(19:05):
life of pleasure and happinessall the time.
Right, like we don't know thatand we think and maybe it's an
assumption that everyone isgoing through what we're going
through.
Right, every father is the same, every mother is is always
abiding by what the father wants.
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
And that's what they'll tell you.
That's calculated.
That's what they'll tell you iswhat.
There's nothing wrong with us.
This is how everybody is.
This is unusual.
You think you're so special,you know all of that to justify
and keep up the facade and theredefinitely is a facade, because
in my family we were one wayout in public, a church and
whatnot, and when the doorsclosed it was completely
(19:47):
different situation.
So it is calculated and theyknow when and how to um inflict
their abuse and in my opinion,it's very calculated.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
So okay.
So that's kind of where I wantto ask now.
I want to go in that direction.
Do you think and I don't knowhow to ask this without sounding
offensive Do you think thatthey are purposely doing this,
or do you think that they justdon't consider your feelings?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
just don't consider your feelings.
You know it's a little bit ofboth.
They're certainly not going toconsider your feelings, but if
you bring it to their attentionthey might make some, some
noises, some.
Oh okay, you know, if they'rein a good mood.
I didn't know that thatbothered you.
But then you have to reallywatch their actions, because
they want to keep you around astheir supply, because your
presence really serves them.
(20:40):
They hate to be alone.
They don't like to be alone.
They're psychologicallyunstable underneath of it,
underneath it all, so they wouldnever admit it, but they need
you around.
They want to keep you there,but they want to keep you there
in that service capacity.
If you say something, bring itup, set a boundary, don't yell
(21:01):
at me if you can't find yoursocks or whatever, or your keys,
they're going to say they mightsay they might just ignore you
or give you the silent treatment.
But some of them might say, ohokay, I won't do that if it
bothers you.
But you have to really watchtheir actions Because if they
are on the narcissism spectrum,they are certainly going to do
(21:22):
that again.
They will say one thing and theywill do another and it will
make you crazy.
You will question your realityand they will also deny.
You'll bring it up.
We had this discussion and youagreed that you wouldn't rage at
me when you lost your keys.
And they'll say I never saidthat.
I don't know what you'rethinking.
You must be crazy, you know.
(21:43):
And so it goes on and on.
And if you've had someexperience, if you haven't
really been taught as a kid tostand your ground, then you're
going to question yourself.
You're going to think geez, Iam crazy, I am losing it.
And so I do think that itserves them, whether it's
calculated, or I would.
(22:06):
I would go more on the side ofit's calculated.
It works for them.
That's why they do it.
I don't know it's widelyconsidered untreatable, and I
agree with that.
I don't know why.
I don't know it's.
It's widely considereduntreatable, and I agree with
that.
I don't know why.
I don't know why they won't.
They won't change.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Oh, that's so terrible.
It's just my heart is my poor,heart is breaking so okay.
So with professional women,like is there something that you
tell them to watch for in theirrelationships, whether it's
personal or business?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yes, there's four things that I'm on the lookout
for if I'm having a conversationor if I'm coaching someone for
very specific characteristicsthat women, if they really
struggle with these, I call themvows.
They're the deeply held,unconscious beliefs that form
their reality.
I'm watching for them and I'lltell them to watch for them also
(23:03):
.
And the first is I vow toconform, even if it means
staying small and struggling.
Staying small and struggling.
And that vow to conform.
It's the trickiest one of thefour, because you maybe are
(23:28):
exceptional at work, but youhave to look at could you be
even more exceptional if yourfamily didn't make fun of you?
If you've surpassed or are youstill below that level that your
father is at?
So the equilibrium is still inplace because he's the CEO and
you're a VP.
And so we work, we look atwhether what you exceeded where
your parents ever made it.
How would that go in the family?
(23:49):
And if you have someone on thatnarcissistic spectrum, the
answer is usually not well, ifyou're really honest with
yourself and it's so hardbecause we all want to believe
that our family is ourcheerleaders but getting really
clear and honest sometimesthey're not watch out for is the
(24:19):
people pleasing, and it's I vowto meet everyone else's needs
and never have a need of my own.
And this comes from as kids wedidn't get to have needs.
We had to survive by meetingtheir emotional needs.
They were grown up toddlers andgrown up bodies and we were
running around trying to controlthe uncontrollable.
And so as an adult, and at workand at home, it looks like not
(24:39):
being able to say no, peoplepleasing, not being able to set
a boundary.
And we can't set that boundarybecause if we would have set
that boundary as a kid, it wouldhave meant life or death.
Parental rejection to a kid isdeath.
If you're rejected by thatparent, you're not going to
survive.
You can't make it on your own,and so our nervous system
(25:02):
remembers we don't turn 18 andget to flip a switch where I'm
an adult, now I can get jobs andtake care of myself.
It's still going to feel likelife or death in your nervous
system, and so that is why thatpeople pleasing pattern of
behavior is so difficult tobreak.
The third vow that I watch outfor is the vow to be invisible,
(25:26):
and this shows up in aninability to market, an
inability to hold our ground atmeetings, an inability to really
shine and take credit for whatwe do, and this really shows up
in women.
Men often don't have the sameblocks to shining and taking
credit and it comes from havingthat parent where it wasn't safe
(25:48):
to be that big, bold presenceand have an opinion and have
ideas, because that was viewedas a threat.
They will take you down.
You always have to be inferiorto them.
And finally, I look for, I vowto be perfect, because
perfectionism was something thatmany of us adopted to keep
(26:09):
ourselves safe.
We often weren't completelysafe if we were perfect, but we
were safer.
Narcissists like to havesomething to brag about, whether
it's grades, athleticachievements, whatever it is.
So that kept us safer if wewere perfect and that really
sticks with us into our livesand it really blocks us in our
(26:30):
careers because it's exhausting,it's draining and
perfectionists make greatsecretaries but poor bosses.
At some point you have to letsome things go, learn to
delegate and do it that way, andso I see it showing up in a lot
of my clients' lives as theirinner glass ceiling.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
They just can't get that next leadership level
because they're viewed and theyput out that energy of the
perfect secretary,administrative assistant type
person that takes care of allthe mundane things, and that's
definitely a role that weadopted as children wow, and
that's, and that's why maybeit's more common that we see it
(27:11):
in men more, because women areso nurturing and women are like,
you see, like the women wanteverything to go smoothly, and
so they'll do what they have todo to keep that part of life
smooth right?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
and if we're people pleasing, invisible
perfectionist, who does thatserve?
Who really benefits from usstaying small?
And it's those people in ourlives that are are that we're
serving.
If we're constantly the servant, who are you serving?
You're serving someone andwhether they're narcissistic or
not, they're going to keepenabling that behavior because
(27:48):
it's helping them.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Right, right, what's keeping them safe to some degree
?
Wow, yeah, okay.
So, wow, I was like that's,that was a huge list and I mean,
in all honesty, I think we allknow someone like that.
Right, we all know someonewho's going through that
(28:10):
scenario yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I don't know if I draw people in or or if it's
just the culture at large, but Iabsolutely the percentages in
my opinion are really high ofwomen that I meet that struggle
with all four of theseconsistently, a hundred percent.
And so I think that it's acultural phenomenon, it's
(28:35):
cultural flaws, it's characterflaws and some of us are not.
The behavior that narcissism isthat character flaw that sets
us up for this behavior, and Ithink it's huge.
I mean almost every woman Imeet.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I don't know Like I said.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I don't know if the universe is just bringing me
those people or it's hard to sayhow prevalent it is, but I'm
comfortable saying it's veryprevalent, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, it's.
I mean, just in my world I cansee how prevalent it is and I
mean you're, you're helpingthese women, so you're going to
see it even more.
So I'm wondering what if awoman wanted to leave her
relationship?
And because of the narcissism,what are her biggest challenges,
challenges that she has to face?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I.
In my opinion, it's that theguilt they had.
The narcissists have this crazy.
In my view it's almostspiritual, energetic hold on us
and even though we recognize itas really unhealthy, actually
disconnecting from that energy,we believe that it's our duty
(29:49):
and a lot of us are really.
We're golden retrievers of thehuman world, right?
We like to do our duty, we'reloyal, and so, in my opinion,
it's that guilt of leaving thisperson to fend for himself and
he's really going to play thatup and the habit of serving
(30:10):
someone.
And it also is a protection,because as long as we're
spending all of our energytaking care and walking on
eggshells and making this personhappy, then we don't have to
focus on ourselves.
And that's really scary tofocus on ourselves, because what
if we fail?
What if we're, we can't makeour dreams happen?
What if we're not good enough?
(30:30):
And so in a lot of ways, it'sjust easier to keep the focus
there.
So, in my opinion, it's theguilt of leaving and the
inability to shift that focus toyourself and take that risk to
go after your dreams.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, and that's I mean, that's hard for the
average person to begin with,right To really look out for
their own wellbeing.
So what would you say likewould be the first steps?
Like like you can't just wakeup one morning and leave because
that would set off a whole, youknow, set of more trauma.
So what would you suggest,suggest, like I just hearing
(31:07):
what you're saying, I wouldsuggest like like kind of your
well-being, like become stronger, learn, learn.
Like first of all, learn thatthat behavior is holding you
back right and sort of breakfree from it as best you can in
the relationship.
Like how, what would yousuggest?
What would you tell a woman todo at the beginning?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
No, I wholeheartedly agree.
There's two for sure stepsbefore leaving or putting
distance between yourself andthe narcissist, and the first
two steps are interchangeable.
They're not.
They're not chronological orlinear.
And I would recommend finding amind, body and the body is the
(31:50):
key word here tool forreprogramming yourself and
releasing that energy and all ofthat traumatic energy that you
have accumulated over the years.
In my program I use emotionalfreedom technique, or tapping,
which is tapping on acupressurepoints, which allows your
nervous system.
(32:11):
It allows you to access yournervous system and really get
relief there, because we canknow something in our mind and
it doesn't mean our body's goingto agree right.
It just means we're conflictedand we're still not going to
make a lot of headway becauseour minds up here doing
backflips and the body saying noway I know where I'm safe and
(32:31):
it's right here and I don't knowwhat's out there in that big
scary world.
And so I would recommend thatyou don't have to use tapping.
You know there's a lot ofbreathing, conscious breathing
programs and exercises.
Some people can get therethrough journaling or meditation
, but the key is you've got toconnect to that body and barf it
(32:51):
out, vomit it out, release it,however you want to say it, get
it out of that nervous system,and I would do that for a while
before you even pressuredyourself to take action.
And the second is the mentalpiece, which is learning what
you can about narcissistic abuseand behaviors so that you can
(33:12):
predict what's going to happenbecause they are very
predictable and also what thismental element will do.
It was allow you to putpsychological distance between
you and your narcissist.
You can start to see it's them,not me.
And for a long time you've beenbelieving and you'll probably
still continue to believe for awhile until you consciously
(33:35):
rewrite it that it's you, thatyou're the problem.
You've been told your wholelife that you're fundamentally
flawed, that you're not goodenough, that you're ditzy or
airheaded or whatever they use,that you're the problem.
So as you start to learn abouthow predictable and how
ingrained this narcissisticbehavior is in them, you will
(33:58):
get some mental distance and youcan start to see it's not me,
it's them.
Sure, I have flaws, but not tothe extent that I've been
brainwashed into believing I'mhuman, just like everybody else.
But this relationship situationis actually not my fault.
And so yeah, doing those twosteps for a while will
(34:22):
eventually enable you to putsome physical distance between
between you and thatnarcissistic abuser in your life
.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, and and I mean the self work, like we all know
that once you start cause thatthat turns into professional
development or personaldevelopment, right, and so with
that, not only are you going tomake yourself stronger to leave
the relationship, but it's goingto affect your like outside of
the relationship, but it's goingto affect your like outside of
the relationship life too, right, like all the other areas of
(34:53):
your life.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yes, it is.
And then you're going to see.
The first place my clients seebenefit is usually at work and
in their money, because that'san easier door to crack open to.
To open up, is that flow there?
I do want to add a word ofwarning, because I fell into
this trap so many times.
Don't think that you are goingto show up to your narcissistic
(35:17):
relationship with your newconfidence and your assertive
communication skills and that'sgoing to be okay.
It's not going to be okay.
They're going to see you as athreat.
They're very good at sensingenergy, so they're going to pick
up on it almost immediately andin a lot of cases they will
make it their mission to takeyou down, and so there will
(35:40):
actually be more conflict as youcontinue to develop yourself.
So you might have to pretend,you might have to wear a mask
for emotional and physicalsafety reasons for a while
around them, you know, pretendto be insecure and survey,
survey and whatnot, and you'llhave to carefully consider the
specifics of your own situation.
(36:01):
But it's definitely not goingto improve your relationship
with the narcissist to show upin a healthier way.
I know I tried it.
It didn't work.
I was just this big fat target.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Well, and the thing is, once you have like a more
self-confident being, they don'tlike that, because now, if
you're confident that I can'tcontrol you, and if I can't
control you then I'm the weakone.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah, yeah, the weak one.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, yeah, I could see that, I could see that and
oh, that it's almost making meangry.
So once a woman leaves herrelationship, how do you, how do
you help them to rebuild theirself-trust?
Right, because now they, theyonly know really manipulation
and gaslighting.
So how do, how do you walk themthrough that?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
We go through all of those deeply held, unconscious
beliefs of what they arebelieving to not trust
themselves.
And we hold that in our bodyand in our nervous system and
it's a feeling.
So in my program we learned toidentify the sensations.
I don't even really call themfeelings.
(37:11):
Sensation is even more neutral.
We identify the sensation andwhere it is in your body, and
then that sensation has a storyto tell.
And that, since, if you're in acalm, quiet place, that
sensation will tell you itsstory and you can release it,
and then that opens.
(37:32):
So the trust is there, thatinner feeling of that fire, hose
of energy is there.
It's literally just blocked ata physical level.
And so once we release thatsensation through conscious
awareness and tapping and somepeacemaking work, then that
(37:52):
truth, the truth in our system,will flow automatically.
And so that's how I help myclients.
It's a real mind, body systemof moving forward and it does
take time, it's not?
You know, I would probably sella lot more programs if I could
click bait and promise instantresults, but this is a process
(38:14):
and it took you a long time tobe become brainwashed and it
will take some time to toreprogram yourself.
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Now, with all that I mean that's, that's like sounds
like deep hard work to beginwith, but we also need to
remember that every woman goingthrough I mean every woman in
the world, but you know, in yoursituation here, like every
woman you're dealing with reallyneeds to also focus on self
love and self care.
So how do you do you help themwith that, like?
(38:47):
Because I mean they need thatto be recovered in the first
place, right, but they also needto know that it has to be
prioritized.
They need to care forthemselves.
How do you walk them throughthat process?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Well, the first is recognizing that this feels
really wrong to them because intheir childhood home, taking
care of yourself and makingyourself priority was, like I
said, literally a life or deathdecision and it meant death,
whether that was actual physicalshunning and not getting to eat
that night, or whether it waspsychological and emotional
(39:21):
death by being given the silenttreatment or berated or shamed
and made fun of.
Just recognizing that going intaking care of yourself is so we
see the top of the iceberg,right, but there's this whole
host, this whole structure ofbeliefs that's underneath that
ocean, that is holding them back.
(39:42):
So, not getting in a hurry overit, but so if I was coaching
someone to and I couldn't dothis at all, we'll use my story
I couldn't do.
My coach was saying you have todo one nice thing for yourself
per day and I said I don't havetime, I can't do it, I can't
(40:04):
like that and that point in mylife it felt literally
impossible to me.
I had really tiny kids and Iwas going from dusk or dawn till
dusk and it just felt and itfelt impossible to me.
That's what my head was saying,but my body, my nervous system,
was saying that's not safe.
That means death.
(40:25):
And so what we did is we justtook it apart piece by piece.
Where in your body are youfeeling this?
Where my chest, usually, mystomach, whatever it was?
And then that block, thatthought, that vow that I was
unconsciously thinking over andover would come up, and it would
be something like he really madat me, or it's always very
(40:48):
childlike and very simple, it'snot complicated, but that that
it doesn't mean it's notpowerful, it's still very
powerful.
I'm going to get in trouble forthis, things like that.
And you just work on it pieceby piece until your world, that
energy, starts to open up.
And so I would just work withthat.
You know, give them oneassignment and then be curious
(41:09):
when you can't do it.
And if you're working with ajournal, just journal all the
reasons why you can't, and godeeper and deeper and deeper
until you hit that root of it,that really simple situation or
things you were told, or thingthat you started to tell
yourself to survive, and thenyou really bring that love and
(41:30):
that peacemaking to that pieceof yourself.
And that piece of yourself.
It's really spiritual andrequires almost time travel,
because that piece of yourselfis still alive and it's still
screaming I'm going to get introuble or he'll be mad at me.
And it's stuck there and it'sliterally a little kid in your
(41:52):
nervous system holding, holdingall of that energy and is
bringing that release and thatpeace to, to that energy and
letting it go.
And in things like self-careself-care is a huge thing.
There's a lot of blocks andbeliefs built into self-care.
So I wouldn't be in a hurry andI'd be getting to the root of
(42:13):
all of these different thingsand then using the tapping
process to release thatsensation, that block, out of
the nervous system.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Wow, yeah, wow, wow.
So how do you, how do you coachyour women, your clients, to
set boundaries, you know, toprotect yourself and falling
into similar patterns afterthey've left this relationship?
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Right, boundaries boundaries are are another big
area and you have to be reallycognizant that you're not going
to have a conversation, you'renot your initial conversation,
your initial boundary is notgoing to work.
Right, you have theconversation.
To lay the boundary Like don'ttext me, say you have children
(43:04):
together.
Don't text me after 8 PM atnight.
They're going to do it.
They're for sure going to do it.
Make sure they do it, yeah,yeah.
And so you know you havenarcissists, do sometimes
respond to consequences, and soif you can install a consequence
, I mean that one's prettysimple.
You just want to answer and youwould shutty, shutty, you would
(43:26):
ignore all their, all theirfranticness and all of their
things and all of theiremergencies the next day.
But that's really scary.
Going into conflict, setting aboundary with a narcissist is
really scary because it's goingto result in conflict.
So I would work through withthem all of their fears about
(43:48):
you're going to do this, whatcomes up for you, and it's going
to be things like he's going toreact, he's going to freak out,
and I'm going to feel reallyguilty and I'm going to question
my sanity.
And then it's the same processbecause it didn't start today,
it didn't start with thissituation and it happened.
You know mom or dad did this,or it goes way back and we start
(44:13):
releasing all of that energyand they will see shifts in
their lives.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Wow, that sounds so scary.
Right, really does sound scary.
So, in your experience, whatkind of transformation have you
seen?
Speaker 3 (44:30):
In my own experience, I have seen myself going from.
I don't know how many of yourlisteners have watched.
It's Always Sunny inPhiladelphia, have you ever?
Oh, I hate that show.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I hate that show.
My husband watches it and Ihate it.
I hate that joke.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
My husband watches it and I hate it.
Okay, so I was sweet D, I wasthe woman that got not respected
, not um, taken advantage ofthere to serve, treated badly,
and I didn't even realize it foryears.
I was just so happy to beincluded and um.
So I have went from that typeof person to a confident person
(45:07):
that is capable of seeing thecrazy and recognizing the crazy
and getting myself out of thecrazy.
I no longer try to setboundaries.
I'm really fortunate that Idon't have to set a lot of
boundaries.
I just remove my physicalpresence.
And my parents are verydifficult to deal with to this
(45:27):
day, and I tried for two yearsto get along with them, to bend
over backwards, until Iultimately realized that my new
empowerment was a threat andthat they were going to try to
diminish that threat, and so theonly solution for me was
limited contact.
We were never going to be adultfriends.
(45:49):
We were never going to havethat type of thing.
Because of them not me, andI've seen clients they are able
to build their businesses, theyare able to ask for raises and
make more money.
Those are usually the firststeps, and then we move on to
relationships where it's justbringing your energy back into a
(46:10):
firmer grounded stance here andthat's okay, Feeling safe doing
that.
And then those relationshipswith ex spouses and parents and
whatnot.
We start to become free of them.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Wow, wow.
How can listeners know ifthey're ready to take on some
coaching and start healing?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
So just feel into that and I want you to picture
yourself five years from now andyou're still doing it all by
yourself and nothing's changed,and you're still feeling what
you're feeling and you're maybedoing some work on the side,
(46:53):
listening to the YouTube videoswhen you get time, but it's not
a priority.
It's pretty much the same.
You're still in the samerelationships.
You're still people pleasing,doing all of the things.
Is that something that feelsgood to you?
And so if you're sitting thereand you're thinking to yourself,
(47:15):
oh my God, this is notsomething, this is intolerable,
this is not something that Iwant to continue to experience,
then you're ready Because, likeyou said, some of it doesn't
sound that great, it is deepwork, but this is the truth.
You're carrying around all ofthat energy, all of that burden
(47:37):
every day and we go in and werelease it, and maybe it's
uncomfortable during the session, but the end of it you're free
of another piece of baggage,whereas now you're carrying it
every day into the foreseeablefuture.
And so if that feelsintolerable to you, then you're
ready to invest in yourself andmake a commitment and do the
(47:59):
next thing and if I mean that'sa shitty life, like you know.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
living like that, always on eggshells, always
watching your back, that's ahorrible, hard life, right.
But you get to choose yourheart here, right, going deep
and going within to better yourlife in you know, six to eight
months, or six to 12 months, orliving the rest of your life
like this.
And it could get worse, becauseI've heard that narcissism gets
(48:26):
worse as we age.
So if that's true, if you hateyour life today and you still
have 40, 50, 80 years to go,it's only going to get worse.
So do the hard work and getyourself out of the shitty.
That's I mean, that's the way Isee it.
I'm not living in that life.
I can't, you know, I don't wantto speak for anybody.
(48:46):
That's I mean.
That's the way I see it.
I'm not living in that life.
I can't, you know, I don't wantto speak for anybody, but
that's the way I see it, right,do?
Speaker 3 (48:54):
the hard work and gain, you know, more love for
yourself.
Exactly, and it could be aspouse In my case.
It could be somebody else.
In my case it was my dad, and Iactually went through the same
process that you just described,just described.
He is in his early seventiesand in good health, and I just
thought to myself I can'toutlive this.
He could live for another 20years and he is not.
(49:15):
I was seeing him a couple oftimes a week trying to make him
love me, and I just thought Icannot pour another 10.
I mean not, it could be 20.
It could be 10.
Nobody knows.
But another five, even anotheryear, six months down the drain,
trying to bend over backwardsto earn love from this person.
(49:35):
This prize I was never going toget.
I just couldn't do that for onemore day and I felt all the
fear and all the guilt, like Iwas breaking all these rules,
and it was a really tough atfirst two or three months, but
it will truly be the best thingI ever did.
I was breaking all these rulesand it was a really tough at
first two or three months, butit will truly be the best thing
I ever did.
And um other people that havedone the same thing.
You can't keep pouring yourlife down the narcissistic
(49:57):
person's emotional drain,because they will take it all.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
As much as you are willing to give, they will take
how can a client work with youand how do they start the next,
that first step toward thishealing journey?
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Go to what my website is, scotty, with an I Scotty,
mosercom, and there's aapplication.
It's not an application.
It's your name and email tofill out and we can set up a
time to discuss your specificsituation and the best options
for you.
And I also have a free gift onthere if you would like to check
(50:32):
that out.
It is from Overwhelm to On Fire, and I chose to start with the
Overwhelm piece as a free giftbecause we were stuck in
Overwhelm for our wholechildhoods.
We were always faced withsituations that our nervous
systems weren't capable ofhandling, and that becomes our
default setting, and so, as afree gift, you can download that
(50:55):
and you can set up a time totalk to me.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
I love that.
I have one more question, and Ithink it's pretty basic what is
the difference betweennarcissistic and control freak?
Speaker 3 (51:10):
The narcissistic person is their adamant refusal
to change and a control freakwhen they're being honest, will
admit that it's really hard tochange.
But yes, they will and they'lltake.
You have to watch the actionsbecause if you're not
narcissistic and you're facedwith some consequences, you're
(51:31):
going to take some actions.
You're going to enroll in theprogram, get the counseling or
whatever.
A narcissistic person will tellyou that they're going to do
those things and they won't dothem or they'll do them
halfheartedly for a month, andso you really have to watch out
for the manipulation.
If someone is really trying tomanipulate you and just keep you
(51:52):
stuck, that's a narcissisticperson.
It's really likely and you canfeel it in your gut.
Like our body knows, we're notdummies here.
We've been told our whole lifethat we're dummies.
But we know we're intuitive.
We can tell if someone's legittrying to change or if they're
just not or if they're justmanipulating us.
We've had to turn off our gutinstinct a lot of times because
(52:17):
we needed to to survive and wehad to believe that we were
crazy and messed up.
But start tuning back into yourgut and seeing what it's saying
.
You'll know from that.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
I love that.
Yeah, Awesome.
Is there anything else that youmight want our listeners to
know and hear before we we endour show here?
Speaker 3 (52:40):
Yes, one last thing on your, on your, as you start
your healing journey keep inmind be the person you needed
back.
Then Show up for yourself.
Be that person that you neededand start showing up for
yourself that way.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I love that.
I'm going to write that down,because that's perfect.
I mean we all know who.
That is right.
We all know what we weren'tgetting at the time that this
all started right.
So if we, if we can be theperson that we needed, then we
can get through this Exactly.
That's incredible, awesome.
Well, thank you so much forthis.
Today, I mean, it's kind of, Ihave to be honest, I feel kind
(53:22):
of a little bit down, but Idon't really.
I mean I love you, know,walking over that path.
Right, you go through thejourney, you go through all the
hardship, but at the end of thetunnel is is that's where the
light is shining.
Right, you can walk into thatlight.
You don't have to live thislife of of hard and unbearable
(53:42):
you.
There is a light at the end ofthe tunnel if you're willing to
see it and walk towards it yeah,and if burden and heavy
emotions are surfacing for you,they're surfacing to be let go.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
They're surfacing for your benefit and healing, and
so just be the person that youneed I love that.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yes, thank you so much.
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(54:41):
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website.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Thanks for listening.
This show was brought to you byDivas that Care.
Connect with us on Facebook, onInstagram and, of course, on
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Welcome to Divas that Care, anetwork of women committed to
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This is a global movement forwomen, by women engaged in a
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To find out more about themovement, visit divasthatcarecom
(00:25):
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After the show.
Right now, though, stay tunedfor another jolt of inspiration.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
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(00:55):
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In direct contrast, confidencein Bloom is designed to
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(01:19):
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(01:39):
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(02:00):
own power, feeling fantastic inyour own skin.
In your own power, feelingfantastic in your own skin.
Scotty Moser is my guest today.
Scotty Moser is atransformational coach
specializing in helping womenbreak free from the toxic
effects of narcissisticparenting.
With her compassionate guidance, she empowers women to
rediscover their authenticselves, regain their confidence
(02:23):
and reclaim their passion forlife.
Scotty has created provenstrategies for emotional healing
, boundary setting and buildingresilience, providing her
clients with the tools to livewith peace, power and purpose.
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Scotty, thank you, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, so I want to talk, okay.
So I mean you're what you coachon narcissistic parenting, that
is.
That's a whole new conversationwe all know about.
You know narcissistics andmostly in my experience it's
been talked about mostly in likeromantic relationships, right,
(03:04):
boyfriends, husbands, mainlyhusbands.
I know my daughterunfortunately had a relationship
with a boy.
You know he was 21 and you knowshe was 21 or 22, like super
young, and it was like scary,like I was worried for her life,
let alone.
You know.
You know just her feelings andher heart.
(03:26):
So I mean, it's it's it's asensitive subject, but it's also
something that I think we areall living with in some degree,
wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yes, definitely, it is everywhere, and some would
say that it's becoming moreprevalent.
That's not my view.
My view is it's always beenhere.
We're just now recognizing it,so it feels prevalent, but we're
.
In my view, it's progressbecause we're recognizing the
behavior and we're saying thisis unacceptable for where, for
(04:00):
centuries and generations, ithas just been our normal.
So I think we're reallystepping forward for humanity
when we start to recognize thistype of behavior.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I was kind of feeling the same way, like what's
happening today that is so likecommon, I guess, is the word
right Like, but I think you'reright.
When we look back, it was aman's world and when a man was
narcissistic, you know, thewomen just sort of played the
part to keep him happy, to avoidwhatever he might do.
(04:37):
I mean, we all know, like womenare narcissistic as well.
In fact, I heard a commentyesterday and I don't remember
where it was, but we are allnarcissistic, right, like, we're
all capable and havenarcissistic behaviors.
It's just a matter of you know,if you, if you have an open
mind and you can explain thiseven better, I'm sure of it.
(04:58):
But if you have an open mind,then you can get control of your
, of your feelings, or you don'treact the way you know
narcissists react.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yes, we are.
I would agree to that to adegree.
It's a spectrum narcissisticbehavior.
So you have mild narcissistsall the way up to really severe
narcissists and even lower onthat spectrum.
Below mild narcissist is ourselfish, self-preservation
instinct right, we all have tohave some degree of self and
(05:35):
meeting our desires and puttingourself first to survive, and
that's not a bad thing.
When it crosses the line intomanipulating others,
dehumanizing others and totallynot having anyone else's
interest but yourself at heart,then in my opinion that's when
(05:58):
it crosses over into a problem.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Right, absolutely to a problem, right, Absolutely.
So now we're going to get intothe whole parent part of this
conversation, because I mean, wecould talk about narcissistics
and their traits for hoursbecause there are, like there's
such a huge spectrum.
But let's, let's dive into thewhole parenting aspect of this,
because I've never really lookedat it as you know a
(06:23):
narcissistic parent and how thatwould affect your kids.
So let's, let's talk about thatand and how it affects, like a
life, someone's life.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yes, the characteristics of a
narcissistic parent and how theyshow up in the child's lives,
the first thing being lack ofempathy and when I say lack of
empathy it's a euphemism.
It went over my head for a longtime and it goes over other
people's heads.
It means they don't care aboutthe impact their actions are
(07:00):
having on you.
Their world is built for themand around them.
So, as a child, this is reallydisheartening and damaging,
because you have a parent that'streating you like a
refrigerator.
They need you to serve them.
And what's so interesting to meand I've only really started to
(07:21):
think about it in this way isthis concept was kind of the
standard of parenting ageneration or two ago.
Right, children were to be seenand not heard.
They were there to meet theparents' needs, and I think that
really caused a lot of damageto our culture and our society
(07:41):
as a whole.
To treat children as objects tobe taken off a shelf and to be
trotted out at certain occasionsand then put back on the shelf
like they don't even existthat's really dehumanizing.
You don't feel like you matterand that's a real, that's a
founded belief.
You actually don't matter thatmuch to that parent.
(08:04):
You matter as a piece of aprize for them or a piece of
their collection, and so theyhave that low empathy piece.
They also and this is goingalong they're very entitled.
They don't see this behavior aswrong or in any way any problem
.
They see themselves as superior, which is really easy and often
(08:25):
culturally supported.
And there are a lot of lines towalk when you're doing this as a
parent.
But narcissistic parents feelsuperior and their children are
inferior.
And I'm not saying that parentsdon't get to be in charge and
set reasonable boundaries.
It's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about that energy,that feeling, and you know it
(08:46):
when you're in it as a kid, yourlisteners, if they were in it,
they're nodding.
That parent was superior, theiropinions were superior, their
ideas were superior, theirthoughts and preferences were
superior and you were treated asless than as inferior.
And so those are a couple ofways that the narcissistic
(09:07):
traits can show up in thechild's life If you are
experiencing that type ofparenting that sounds like
actually really scary and Ithink you know in the coaching
world we hear a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Right Like the parents felt it was like they
had to make everyone around themhappy and so if that was at the
expense of their kids, so be it.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Right?
Oh, absolutely.
And you know you're workingwith people and you're
uncovering their blocks, and Idid this for many years before I
even had a clue about theconcept of narcissism.
You know, we go into the blocks, and I was always the parent
and I couldn't get a handle onwhy it was coming up over and
(09:52):
over again, until I eventuallyrealized that this was a culture
.
This wasn't a one of incidentor something that instilled this
false belief.
This is something this personexperienced day after day for a
couple of decades, and so itreally has an impact, and we
don't always see that impact,because it's our reality.
(10:14):
The fish doesn't see the waterright.
That's just how life is.
That's just how people treat us.
That's how people are.
So there's a leap to be taken,a consciousness leap, between
what is my reality.
Is it this crazy town ordelusional denialville that I
experienced, or is there perhapsa different reality that I can
(10:36):
create?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Wow, wow, yeah, yeah, exactly Like, and that explains
how, like I remember growing upand hearing you know, women
marry their dads, right, and soit totally explains like if your
dad was narcissistic, you know,then you would, you would reach
out to that like you're goingto be attracted to that because
that's all you know, right?
(10:59):
Yeah, that totally clears thatup for me.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, that feels really familiar and so you're
not going to question thatbehavior or that reality of what
they're putting out.
Where someone else that hasn'thad that grooming or that
experience in childhood toaccept that behavior.
They're going to get spun outof that narcissistic person's
orbit in a month or two,whatever it is six months a year
(11:26):
because there's going to startquestioning the behavior and
standing up to the behavior andthe relationship.
The relationship is not goingto survive any questioning or
any anything like that.
Any of you standing up foryourself, so groomed by the
fathers to come into thisrelationship and accept this
behavior and on and on.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, oh, it.
Just I mean it, it, it, it,like it's all making sense to me
, and especially like with mydaughter going through it.
It only lasted like threemonths and luckily, right, you
know, but it was you know.
That answers that question, too, why she was able to get out of
it so quickly, because moststories that I hear it's like
(12:11):
marriages, so, like you know,you marry into it and then you
raise your kids in that and allthe things, and she was, like
you know, quickly, was able topull herself out.
So you know, I mean, clearly myhusband and I are not not
narcissistic, because otherwiseshe wouldn't have known the
difference, right, oh, wow, thisis a great conversation.
So I want to ask you what ledyou to specialize in coaching
(12:34):
professional women that arerecovering from these
narcissistic relationships?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Well, like many of your listeners, I was a box
checker, I call it.
I checked all of the boxes.
I survived my childhood.
One of my coping mechanisms wasbeing perfect and trying harder
, and so I got good grades.
I was in a lot ofextracurricular activities.
I went to college and got goodgrades there.
(13:02):
I went to law school same.
I got the prestigious law firmjob after graduation and I
worked at that for a couple ofyears.
But I knew it didn't fit right.
I knew I didn't want to bethere in 20 years.
I didn't want what they had.
So I quit with my business orbusiness partner who also worked
there, and we started our ownfirm, and that went really well
(13:25):
too for quite a while.
And I found myself really stillstruggling.
I had gotten the house andgotten married and I had had a
child, but I still had all ofthese sensations inside.
I was anxious a lot of the time.
I was overwhelmed a lot of thetime.
(13:46):
I was constantly worried aboutfinances and survival and where
my next client slash paycheckwas coming from, and it was
really debilitating.
It wasn't minor and I had toldmyself that I was going to
outgrow it, that if I could justcheck these boxes and get a
little older, get these things,create this reality.
(14:09):
Then I would outgrow it.
And there was a come to Jesusmoment when I was 36 years old
and I was actually had a childand I was pregnant with my
second, when it occurred to me,after an anxiety breakdown,
panic attack, that this mightnot be something that I was
going to outgrow.
(14:29):
Why hadn't it happened yet?
There might be something moreto this story, and that's when I
really wanted to eat, pray,love my way out of this
situation.
I wanted to go to Italy andBali and India and really figure
it out in a glamorous way.
But you have heard my situation.
(14:51):
That clearly wasn't happeningto me.
Can't even imagine a vacationof that magnitude with a
two-year-old.
That wasn't happening and Irealized I had to take my
journey on the inside and Istarted to read books.
I took coaching classes and itlooked like reading or listening
(15:13):
to videos and courses while thebaby slept on my shoulder and I
started coaching other women inthe same situation that I was
and it looked like pumping andthen running up to my office to
coach.
It wasn't glamorous, it wasn'tpretty, but I was able to make
lots of headway and figure outwhat was going on.
(15:36):
I was still.
I was making progress, but Icould feel that I wasn't getting
to the root of the root of it.
For both myself and my clients.
It was like we were trees andwe're chopping off unwanted
branches.
We were really pruning, butthey would just grow back and I
knew I wasn't getting to thatroot of it.
And then one day I was scrollingthrough YouTube and the
(16:00):
universe lives in YouTubesometime right and a video
popped up on my screen and thetitle of the video I remember it
clearly was how to setboundaries with difficult people
.
And I listened to it and Idon't remember anything about
the boundaries or the steps oranything about that.
But what she did talk about wasthe concept of narcissism and
(16:24):
how those types of people aredifficult and boundaries are
going to be difficult andprobably won't ultimately work.
You'll probably have to takesome dramatic steps.
Won't ultimately work.
You'll probably have to takesome dramatic steps.
And I thought, aha, narcissism,what is this?
(16:45):
And I started researching andeducating myself on that concept
and that was the root, thestructure that ran through my
life and my clients' lives, andit was supporting and it was the
engine driving all of thesetoxic patterns of people
pleasing, of perfectionism, ofanxiety, of being invisible,
never good enough at that root.
(17:06):
We had been dancing around itup top, but the root was decades
of narcissistic abuse that hadset up this reality in our mind
that we were never questioning.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Oh my goodness, right Like so.
All this time you didn't evenreally know what you were facing
Really.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
No, I had no idea.
I thought I had a tumultuousbut fairly and you know, I will
truly believe that the truth wasthat I had a very normal
childhood.
I did not have a healthychildhood, but I don't think
that what I experienced was allthat unusual.
My parents did not physicallybeat me, they were emotionally.
(17:47):
My father was emotionallyunavailable and very
manipulative.
I was definitely that appliancethat was there to serve him and
my mom was neglectful andenabling.
She orbited around him.
All of her energies that shehad left were focused on keeping
him happy, because if he wasn'thappy he would rage.
(18:10):
He would have verbal tirades,big, scary.
He was a big guy and there wasthese big, scary emotional
temper tantrums over thelittlest things, if he didn't
like dinner, if something wasoff, if he couldn't find
something.
Those were all big triggers.
So I was not physically abused,but I walked on emotional and
(18:30):
psychological eggshells fordecades and I hadn't questioned
that.
I hadn't.
I knew in my head that it wasunpleasant, but I did not
realize that it was stillaffecting me into my late 30s.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, it became your normal right, like if it was
like, like you said, you lived anormal childhood.
And the thing is, you don't,like we all know what's going on
in our four walls, but we haveno idea what's going on in the
four walls that are livingbeside us, and so you don't know
that.
You know the guys, the familybeside you is really living a
(19:05):
life of pleasure and happinessall the time.
Right, like we don't know thatand we think and maybe it's an
assumption that everyone isgoing through what we're going
through.
Right, every father is the same, every mother is is always
abiding by what the father wants.
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
And that's what they'll tell you.
That's calculated.
That's what they'll tell you iswhat.
There's nothing wrong with us.
This is how everybody is.
This is unusual.
You think you're so special,you know all of that to justify
and keep up the facade and theredefinitely is a facade, because
in my family we were one wayout in public, a church and
whatnot, and when the doorsclosed it was completely
(19:47):
different situation.
So it is calculated and theyknow when and how to um inflict
their abuse and in my opinion,it's very calculated.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
So okay.
So that's kind of where I wantto ask now.
I want to go in that direction.
Do you think and I don't knowhow to ask this without sounding
offensive Do you think thatthey are purposely doing this,
or do you think that they justdon't consider your feelings?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
just don't consider your feelings.
You know it's a little bit ofboth.
They're certainly not going toconsider your feelings, but if
you bring it to their attentionthey might make some, some
noises, some.
Oh okay, you know, if they'rein a good mood.
I didn't know that thatbothered you.
But then you have to reallywatch their actions, because
they want to keep you around astheir supply, because your
presence really serves them.
(20:40):
They hate to be alone.
They don't like to be alone.
They're psychologicallyunstable underneath of it,
underneath it all, so they wouldnever admit it, but they need
you around.
They want to keep you there,but they want to keep you there
in that service capacity.
If you say something, bring itup, set a boundary, don't yell
(21:01):
at me if you can't find yoursocks or whatever, or your keys,
they're going to say they mightsay they might just ignore you
or give you the silent treatment.
But some of them might say, ohokay, I won't do that if it
bothers you.
But you have to really watchtheir actions Because if they
are on the narcissism spectrum,they are certainly going to do
(21:22):
that again.
They will say one thing and theywill do another and it will
make you crazy.
You will question your realityand they will also deny.
You'll bring it up.
We had this discussion and youagreed that you wouldn't rage at
me when you lost your keys.
And they'll say I never saidthat.
I don't know what you'rethinking.
You must be crazy, you know.
(21:43):
And so it goes on and on.
And if you've had someexperience, if you haven't
really been taught as a kid tostand your ground, then you're
going to question yourself.
You're going to think geez, Iam crazy, I am losing it.
And so I do think that itserves them, whether it's
calculated, or I would.
(22:06):
I would go more on the side ofit's calculated.
It works for them.
That's why they do it.
I don't know it's widelyconsidered untreatable, and I
agree with that.
I don't know why.
I don't know it's.
It's widely considereduntreatable, and I agree with
that.
I don't know why.
I don't know why they won't.
They won't change.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Oh, that's so terrible.
It's just my heart is my poor,heart is breaking so okay.
So with professional women,like is there something that you
tell them to watch for in theirrelationships, whether it's
personal or business?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yes, there's four things that I'm on the lookout
for if I'm having a conversationor if I'm coaching someone for
very specific characteristicsthat women, if they really
struggle with these, I call themvows.
They're the deeply held,unconscious beliefs that form
their reality.
I'm watching for them and I'lltell them to watch for them also
(23:03):
.
And the first is I vow toconform, even if it means
staying small and struggling.
Staying small and struggling.
And that vow to conform.
It's the trickiest one of thefour, because you maybe are
(23:28):
exceptional at work, but youhave to look at could you be
even more exceptional if yourfamily didn't make fun of you?
If you've surpassed or are youstill below that level that your
father is at?
So the equilibrium is still inplace because he's the CEO and
you're a VP.
And so we work, we look atwhether what you exceeded where
your parents ever made it.
How would that go in the family?
(23:49):
And if you have someone on thatnarcissistic spectrum, the
answer is usually not well, ifyou're really honest with
yourself and it's so hardbecause we all want to believe
that our family is ourcheerleaders but getting really
clear and honest sometimesthey're not watch out for is the
(24:19):
people pleasing, and it's I vowto meet everyone else's needs
and never have a need of my own.
And this comes from as kids wedidn't get to have needs.
We had to survive by meetingtheir emotional needs.
They were grown up toddlers andgrown up bodies and we were
running around trying to controlthe uncontrollable.
And so as an adult, and at workand at home, it looks like not
(24:39):
being able to say no, peoplepleasing, not being able to set
a boundary.
And we can't set that boundarybecause if we would have set
that boundary as a kid, it wouldhave meant life or death.
Parental rejection to a kid isdeath.
If you're rejected by thatparent, you're not going to
survive.
You can't make it on your own,and so our nervous system
(25:02):
remembers we don't turn 18 andget to flip a switch where I'm
an adult, now I can get jobs andtake care of myself.
It's still going to feel likelife or death in your nervous
system, and so that is why thatpeople pleasing pattern of
behavior is so difficult tobreak.
The third vow that I watch outfor is the vow to be invisible,
(25:26):
and this shows up in aninability to market, an
inability to hold our ground atmeetings, an inability to really
shine and take credit for whatwe do, and this really shows up
in women.
Men often don't have the sameblocks to shining and taking
credit and it comes from havingthat parent where it wasn't safe
(25:48):
to be that big, bold presenceand have an opinion and have
ideas, because that was viewedas a threat.
They will take you down.
You always have to be inferiorto them.
And finally, I look for, I vowto be perfect, because
perfectionism was something thatmany of us adopted to keep
(26:09):
ourselves safe.
We often weren't completelysafe if we were perfect, but we
were safer.
Narcissists like to havesomething to brag about, whether
it's grades, athleticachievements, whatever it is.
So that kept us safer if wewere perfect and that really
sticks with us into our livesand it really blocks us in our
(26:30):
careers because it's exhausting,it's draining and
perfectionists make greatsecretaries but poor bosses.
At some point you have to letsome things go, learn to
delegate and do it that way, andso I see it showing up in a lot
of my clients' lives as theirinner glass ceiling.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
They just can't get that next leadership level
because they're viewed and theyput out that energy of the
perfect secretary,administrative assistant type
person that takes care of allthe mundane things, and that's
definitely a role that weadopted as children wow, and
that's, and that's why maybeit's more common that we see it
(27:11):
in men more, because women areso nurturing and women are like,
you see, like the women wanteverything to go smoothly, and
so they'll do what they have todo to keep that part of life
smooth right?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
and if we're people pleasing, invisible
perfectionist, who does thatserve?
Who really benefits from usstaying small?
And it's those people in ourlives that are are that we're
serving.
If we're constantly the servant, who are you serving?
You're serving someone andwhether they're narcissistic or
not, they're going to keepenabling that behavior because
(27:48):
it's helping them.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Right, right, what's keeping them safe to some degree
?
Wow, yeah, okay.
So, wow, I was like that's,that was a huge list and I mean,
in all honesty, I think we allknow someone like that.
Right, we all know someonewho's going through that
(28:10):
scenario yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I don't know if I draw people in or or if it's
just the culture at large, but Iabsolutely the percentages in
my opinion are really high ofwomen that I meet that struggle
with all four of theseconsistently, a hundred percent.
And so I think that it's acultural phenomenon, it's
(28:35):
cultural flaws, it's characterflaws and some of us are not.
The behavior that narcissism isthat character flaw that sets
us up for this behavior, and Ithink it's huge.
I mean almost every woman Imeet.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I don't know Like I said.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I don't know if the universe is just bringing me
those people or it's hard to sayhow prevalent it is, but I'm
comfortable saying it's veryprevalent, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, it's.
I mean, just in my world I cansee how prevalent it is and I
mean you're, you're helpingthese women, so you're going to
see it even more.
So I'm wondering what if awoman wanted to leave her
relationship?
And because of the narcissism,what are her biggest challenges,
challenges that she has to face?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I.
In my opinion, it's that theguilt they had.
The narcissists have this crazy.
In my view it's almostspiritual, energetic hold on us
and even though we recognize itas really unhealthy, actually
disconnecting from that energy,we believe that it's our duty
(29:49):
and a lot of us are really.
We're golden retrievers of thehuman world, right?
We like to do our duty, we'reloyal, and so, in my opinion,
it's that guilt of leaving thisperson to fend for himself and
he's really going to play thatup and the habit of serving
(30:10):
someone.
And it also is a protection,because as long as we're
spending all of our energytaking care and walking on
eggshells and making this personhappy, then we don't have to
focus on ourselves.
And that's really scary tofocus on ourselves, because what
if we fail?
What if we're, we can't makeour dreams happen?
What if we're not good enough?
(30:30):
And so in a lot of ways, it'sjust easier to keep the focus
there.
So, in my opinion, it's theguilt of leaving and the
inability to shift that focus toyourself and take that risk to
go after your dreams.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, and that's I mean, that's hard for the
average person to begin with,right To really look out for
their own wellbeing.
So what would you say likewould be the first steps?
Like like you can't just wakeup one morning and leave because
that would set off a whole, youknow, set of more trauma.
So what would you suggest,suggest, like I just hearing
(31:07):
what you're saying, I wouldsuggest like like kind of your
well-being, like become stronger, learn, learn.
Like first of all, learn thatthat behavior is holding you
back right and sort of breakfree from it as best you can in
the relationship.
Like how, what would yousuggest?
What would you tell a woman todo at the beginning?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
No, I wholeheartedly agree.
There's two for sure stepsbefore leaving or putting
distance between yourself andthe narcissist, and the first
two steps are interchangeable.
They're not.
They're not chronological orlinear.
And I would recommend finding amind, body and the body is the
(31:50):
key word here tool forreprogramming yourself and
releasing that energy and all ofthat traumatic energy that you
have accumulated over the years.
In my program I use emotionalfreedom technique, or tapping,
which is tapping on acupressurepoints, which allows your
nervous system.
(32:11):
It allows you to access yournervous system and really get
relief there, because we canknow something in our mind and
it doesn't mean our body's goingto agree right.
It just means we're conflictedand we're still not going to
make a lot of headway becauseour minds up here doing
backflips and the body saying noway I know where I'm safe and
(32:31):
it's right here and I don't knowwhat's out there in that big
scary world.
And so I would recommend thatyou don't have to use tapping.
You know there's a lot ofbreathing, conscious breathing
programs and exercises.
Some people can get therethrough journaling or meditation
, but the key is you've got toconnect to that body and barf it
(32:51):
out, vomit it out, release it,however you want to say it, get
it out of that nervous system,and I would do that for a while
before you even pressuredyourself to take action.
And the second is the mentalpiece, which is learning what
you can about narcissistic abuseand behaviors so that you can
(33:12):
predict what's going to happenbecause they are very
predictable and also what thismental element will do.
It was allow you to putpsychological distance between
you and your narcissist.
You can start to see it's them,not me.
And for a long time you've beenbelieving and you'll probably
still continue to believe for awhile until you consciously
(33:35):
rewrite it that it's you, thatyou're the problem.
You've been told your wholelife that you're fundamentally
flawed, that you're not goodenough, that you're ditzy or
airheaded or whatever they use,that you're the problem.
So as you start to learn abouthow predictable and how
ingrained this narcissisticbehavior is in them, you will
(33:58):
get some mental distance and youcan start to see it's not me,
it's them.
Sure, I have flaws, but not tothe extent that I've been
brainwashed into believing I'mhuman, just like everybody else.
But this relationship situationis actually not my fault.
And so yeah, doing those twosteps for a while will
(34:22):
eventually enable you to putsome physical distance between
between you and thatnarcissistic abuser in your life
.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, and and I mean the self work, like we all know
that once you start cause thatthat turns into professional
development or personaldevelopment, right, and so with
that, not only are you going tomake yourself stronger to leave
the relationship, but it's goingto affect your like outside of
the relationship, but it's goingto affect your like outside of
the relationship life too, right, like all the other areas of
(34:53):
your life.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yes, it is.
And then you're going to see.
The first place my clients seebenefit is usually at work and
in their money, because that'san easier door to crack open to.
To open up, is that flow there?
I do want to add a word ofwarning, because I fell into
this trap so many times.
Don't think that you are goingto show up to your narcissistic
(35:17):
relationship with your newconfidence and your assertive
communication skills and that'sgoing to be okay.
It's not going to be okay.
They're going to see you as athreat.
They're very good at sensingenergy, so they're going to pick
up on it almost immediately andin a lot of cases they will
make it their mission to takeyou down, and so there will
(35:40):
actually be more conflict as youcontinue to develop yourself.
So you might have to pretend,you might have to wear a mask
for emotional and physicalsafety reasons for a while
around them, you know, pretendto be insecure and survey,
survey and whatnot, and you'llhave to carefully consider the
specifics of your own situation.
(36:01):
But it's definitely not goingto improve your relationship
with the narcissist to show upin a healthier way.
I know I tried it.
It didn't work.
I was just this big fat target.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Well, and the thing is, once you have like a more
self-confident being, they don'tlike that, because now, if
you're confident that I can'tcontrol you, and if I can't
control you then I'm the weakone.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah, yeah, the weak one.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, yeah, I could see that, I could see that and
oh, that it's almost making meangry.
So once a woman leaves herrelationship, how do you, how do
you help them to rebuild theirself-trust?
Right, because now they, theyonly know really manipulation
and gaslighting.
So how do, how do you walk themthrough that?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
We go through all of those deeply held, unconscious
beliefs of what they arebelieving to not trust
themselves.
And we hold that in our bodyand in our nervous system and
it's a feeling.
So in my program we learned toidentify the sensations.
I don't even really call themfeelings.
(37:11):
Sensation is even more neutral.
We identify the sensation andwhere it is in your body, and
then that sensation has a storyto tell.
And that, since, if you're in acalm, quiet place, that
sensation will tell you itsstory and you can release it,
and then that opens.
(37:32):
So the trust is there, thatinner feeling of that fire, hose
of energy is there.
It's literally just blocked ata physical level.
And so once we release thatsensation through conscious
awareness and tapping and somepeacemaking work, then that
(37:52):
truth, the truth in our system,will flow automatically.
And so that's how I help myclients.
It's a real mind, body systemof moving forward and it does
take time, it's not?
You know, I would probably sella lot more programs if I could
click bait and promise instantresults, but this is a process
(38:14):
and it took you a long time tobe become brainwashed and it
will take some time to toreprogram yourself.
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Now, with all that I mean that's, that's like sounds
like deep hard work to beginwith, but we also need to
remember that every woman goingthrough I mean every woman in
the world, but you know, in yoursituation here, like every
woman you're dealing with reallyneeds to also focus on self
love and self care.
So how do you do you help themwith that, like?
(38:47):
Because I mean they need thatto be recovered in the first
place, right, but they also needto know that it has to be
prioritized.
They need to care forthemselves.
How do you walk them throughthat process?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Well, the first is recognizing that this feels
really wrong to them because intheir childhood home, taking
care of yourself and makingyourself priority was, like I
said, literally a life or deathdecision and it meant death,
whether that was actual physicalshunning and not getting to eat
that night, or whether it waspsychological and emotional
(39:21):
death by being given the silenttreatment or berated or shamed
and made fun of.
Just recognizing that going intaking care of yourself is so we
see the top of the iceberg,right, but there's this whole
host, this whole structure ofbeliefs that's underneath that
ocean, that is holding them back.
(39:42):
So, not getting in a hurry overit, but so if I was coaching
someone to and I couldn't dothis at all, we'll use my story
I couldn't do.
My coach was saying you have todo one nice thing for yourself
per day and I said I don't havetime, I can't do it, I can't
(40:04):
like that and that point in mylife it felt literally
impossible to me.
I had really tiny kids and Iwas going from dusk or dawn till
dusk and it just felt and itfelt impossible to me.
That's what my head was saying,but my body, my nervous system,
was saying that's not safe.
That means death.
(40:25):
And so what we did is we justtook it apart piece by piece.
Where in your body are youfeeling this?
Where my chest, usually, mystomach, whatever it was?
And then that block, thatthought, that vow that I was
unconsciously thinking over andover would come up, and it would
be something like he really madat me, or it's always very
(40:48):
childlike and very simple, it'snot complicated, but that that
it doesn't mean it's notpowerful, it's still very
powerful.
I'm going to get in trouble forthis, things like that.
And you just work on it pieceby piece until your world, that
energy, starts to open up.
And so I would just work withthat.
You know, give them oneassignment and then be curious
(41:09):
when you can't do it.
And if you're working with ajournal, just journal all the
reasons why you can't, and godeeper and deeper and deeper
until you hit that root of it,that really simple situation or
things you were told, or thingthat you started to tell
yourself to survive, and thenyou really bring that love and
(41:30):
that peacemaking to that pieceof yourself.
And that piece of yourself.
It's really spiritual andrequires almost time travel,
because that piece of yourselfis still alive and it's still
screaming I'm going to get introuble or he'll be mad at me.
And it's stuck there and it'sliterally a little kid in your
(41:52):
nervous system holding, holdingall of that energy and is
bringing that release and thatpeace to, to that energy and
letting it go.
And in things like self-careself-care is a huge thing.
There's a lot of blocks andbeliefs built into self-care.
So I wouldn't be in a hurry andI'd be getting to the root of
(42:13):
all of these different thingsand then using the tapping
process to release thatsensation, that block, out of
the nervous system.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Wow, yeah, wow, wow.
So how do you, how do you coachyour women, your clients, to
set boundaries, you know, toprotect yourself and falling
into similar patterns afterthey've left this relationship?
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Right, boundaries boundaries are are another big
area and you have to be reallycognizant that you're not going
to have a conversation, you'renot your initial conversation,
your initial boundary is notgoing to work.
Right, you have theconversation.
To lay the boundary Like don'ttext me, say you have children
(43:04):
together.
Don't text me after 8 PM atnight.
They're going to do it.
They're for sure going to do it.
Make sure they do it, yeah,yeah.
And so you know you havenarcissists, do sometimes
respond to consequences, and soif you can install a consequence
, I mean that one's prettysimple.
You just want to answer and youwould shutty, shutty, you would
(43:26):
ignore all their, all theirfranticness and all of their
things and all of theiremergencies the next day.
But that's really scary.
Going into conflict, setting aboundary with a narcissist is
really scary because it's goingto result in conflict.
So I would work through withthem all of their fears about
(43:48):
you're going to do this, whatcomes up for you, and it's going
to be things like he's going toreact, he's going to freak out,
and I'm going to feel reallyguilty and I'm going to question
my sanity.
And then it's the same processbecause it didn't start today,
it didn't start with thissituation and it happened.
You know mom or dad did this,or it goes way back and we start
(44:13):
releasing all of that energyand they will see shifts in
their lives.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Wow, that sounds so scary.
Right, really does sound scary.
So, in your experience, whatkind of transformation have you
seen?
Speaker 3 (44:30):
In my own experience, I have seen myself going from.
I don't know how many of yourlisteners have watched.
It's Always Sunny inPhiladelphia, have you ever?
Oh, I hate that show.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I hate that show.
My husband watches it and Ihate it.
I hate that joke.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
My husband watches it and I hate it.
Okay, so I was sweet D, I wasthe woman that got not respected
, not um, taken advantage ofthere to serve, treated badly,
and I didn't even realize it foryears.
I was just so happy to beincluded and um.
So I have went from that typeof person to a confident person
(45:07):
that is capable of seeing thecrazy and recognizing the crazy
and getting myself out of thecrazy.
I no longer try to setboundaries.
I'm really fortunate that Idon't have to set a lot of
boundaries.
I just remove my physicalpresence.
And my parents are verydifficult to deal with to this
(45:27):
day, and I tried for two yearsto get along with them, to bend
over backwards, until Iultimately realized that my new
empowerment was a threat andthat they were going to try to
diminish that threat, and so theonly solution for me was
limited contact.
We were never going to be adultfriends.
(45:49):
We were never going to havethat type of thing.
Because of them not me, andI've seen clients they are able
to build their businesses, theyare able to ask for raises and
make more money.
Those are usually the firststeps, and then we move on to
relationships where it's justbringing your energy back into a
(46:10):
firmer grounded stance here andthat's okay, Feeling safe doing
that.
And then those relationshipswith ex spouses and parents and
whatnot.
We start to become free of them.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Wow, wow.
How can listeners know ifthey're ready to take on some
coaching and start healing?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
So just feel into that and I want you to picture
yourself five years from now andyou're still doing it all by
yourself and nothing's changed,and you're still feeling what
you're feeling and you're maybedoing some work on the side,
(46:53):
listening to the YouTube videoswhen you get time, but it's not
a priority.
It's pretty much the same.
You're still in the samerelationships.
You're still people pleasing,doing all of the things.
Is that something that feelsgood to you?
And so if you're sitting thereand you're thinking to yourself,
(47:15):
oh my God, this is notsomething, this is intolerable,
this is not something that Iwant to continue to experience,
then you're ready Because, likeyou said, some of it doesn't
sound that great, it is deepwork, but this is the truth.
You're carrying around all ofthat energy, all of that burden
(47:37):
every day and we go in and werelease it, and maybe it's
uncomfortable during the session, but the end of it you're free
of another piece of baggage,whereas now you're carrying it
every day into the foreseeablefuture.
And so if that feelsintolerable to you, then you're
ready to invest in yourself andmake a commitment and do the
(47:59):
next thing and if I mean that'sa shitty life, like you know.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
living like that, always on eggshells, always
watching your back, that's ahorrible, hard life, right.
But you get to choose yourheart here, right, going deep
and going within to better yourlife in you know, six to eight
months, or six to 12 months, orliving the rest of your life
like this.
And it could get worse, becauseI've heard that narcissism gets
(48:26):
worse as we age.
So if that's true, if you hateyour life today and you still
have 40, 50, 80 years to go,it's only going to get worse.
So do the hard work and getyourself out of the shitty.
That's I mean, that's the way Isee it.
I'm not living in that life.
I can't, you know, I don't wantto speak for anybody.
(48:46):
That's I mean.
That's the way I see it.
I'm not living in that life.
I can't, you know, I don't wantto speak for anybody, but
that's the way I see it, right,do?
Speaker 3 (48:54):
the hard work and gain, you know, more love for
yourself.
Exactly, and it could be aspouse In my case.
It could be somebody else.
In my case it was my dad, and Iactually went through the same
process that you just described,just described.
He is in his early seventiesand in good health, and I just
thought to myself I can'toutlive this.
He could live for another 20years and he is not.
(49:15):
I was seeing him a couple oftimes a week trying to make him
love me, and I just thought Icannot pour another 10.
I mean not, it could be 20.
It could be 10.
Nobody knows.
But another five, even anotheryear, six months down the drain,
trying to bend over backwardsto earn love from this person.
(49:35):
This prize I was never going toget.
I just couldn't do that for onemore day and I felt all the
fear and all the guilt, like Iwas breaking all these rules,
and it was a really tough atfirst two or three months, but
it will truly be the best thingI ever did.
I was breaking all these rulesand it was a really tough at
first two or three months, butit will truly be the best thing
I ever did.
And um other people that havedone the same thing.
You can't keep pouring yourlife down the narcissistic
(49:57):
person's emotional drain,because they will take it all.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
As much as you are willing to give, they will take
how can a client work with youand how do they start the next,
that first step toward thishealing journey?
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Go to what my website is, scotty, with an I Scotty,
mosercom, and there's aapplication.
It's not an application.
It's your name and email tofill out and we can set up a
time to discuss your specificsituation and the best options
for you.
And I also have a free gift onthere if you would like to check
(50:32):
that out.
It is from Overwhelm to On Fire, and I chose to start with the
Overwhelm piece as a free giftbecause we were stuck in
Overwhelm for our wholechildhoods.
We were always faced withsituations that our nervous
systems weren't capable ofhandling, and that becomes our
default setting, and so, as afree gift, you can download that
(50:55):
and you can set up a time totalk to me.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
I love that.
I have one more question, and Ithink it's pretty basic what is
the difference betweennarcissistic and control freak?
Speaker 3 (51:10):
The narcissistic person is their adamant refusal
to change and a control freakwhen they're being honest, will
admit that it's really hard tochange.
But yes, they will and they'lltake.
You have to watch the actionsbecause if you're not
narcissistic and you're facedwith some consequences, you're
(51:31):
going to take some actions.
You're going to enroll in theprogram, get the counseling or
whatever.
A narcissistic person will tellyou that they're going to do
those things and they won't dothem or they'll do them
halfheartedly for a month, andso you really have to watch out
for the manipulation.
If someone is really trying tomanipulate you and just keep you
(51:52):
stuck, that's a narcissisticperson.
It's really likely and you canfeel it in your gut.
Like our body knows, we're notdummies here.
We've been told our whole lifethat we're dummies.
But we know we're intuitive.
We can tell if someone's legittrying to change or if they're
just not or if they're justmanipulating us.
We've had to turn off our gutinstinct a lot of times because
(52:17):
we needed to to survive and wehad to believe that we were
crazy and messed up.
But start tuning back into yourgut and seeing what it's saying
.
You'll know from that.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
I love that.
Yeah, Awesome.
Is there anything else that youmight want our listeners to
know and hear before we we endour show here?
Speaker 3 (52:40):
Yes, one last thing on your, on your, as you start
your healing journey keep inmind be the person you needed
back.
Then Show up for yourself.
Be that person that you neededand start showing up for
yourself that way.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I love that.
I'm going to write that down,because that's perfect.
I mean we all know who.
That is right.
We all know what we weren'tgetting at the time that this
all started right.
So if we, if we can be theperson that we needed, then we
can get through this Exactly.
That's incredible, awesome.
Well, thank you so much forthis.
Today, I mean, it's kind of, Ihave to be honest, I feel kind
(53:22):
of a little bit down, but Idon't really.
I mean I love you, know,walking over that path.
Right, you go through thejourney, you go through all the
hardship, but at the end of thetunnel is is that's where the
light is shining.
Right, you can walk into thatlight.
You don't have to live thislife of of hard and unbearable
(53:42):
you.
There is a light at the end ofthe tunnel if you're willing to
see it and walk towards it yeah,and if burden and heavy
emotions are surfacing for you,they're surfacing to be let go.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
They're surfacing for your benefit and healing, and
so just be the person that youneed I love that.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yes, thank you so much.
Confidence in bloom is acelebration of self-love, a
confirmation that, even thoughyou may not look like a screen
star or a supermodel they don'teven look like that you are an
amazing, desirable, brilliant,gorgeous, talented woman.
We offer unconditional love toour partners, our children, our
extended family, even our pets.
(54:21):
It's high time we got out ofour own way and learned to
unconditionally love ourselves.
Out of our own way and learn tounconditionally love ourselves.
Infobloom Styling and Coachingoffers an online program
combined with one-on-onecoaching in confidence building
personal branding and creatingyour signature fashion look.
Chic definitely does come inevery shape.
So if you want something tobelieve in, start with yourself.
(54:41):
If you'd like to be a guesthere on Confidence and Bloom,
contact me through Instagram atInfoBloomStyling, by email, tina
at infobloomstylingcom, orthrough the Divas that Care
website.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Thanks for listening.
This show was brought to you byDivas that Care.
Connect with us on Facebook, onInstagram and, of course, on
divasthatcarecom, where you cansubscribe to our newsletter so
you don't miss a thing.
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