Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
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(00:20):
To find out more about themovement, visit divuslipcare.com
after the show.
Right now, though, stay tunedfor another jolt of inspiration.
SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
Welcome to the
Confidence in Bloom, where bold
women rise, shine, and own theirpower.
We all face that pesky innercritic, what I call the itty
bitty shitty committee,whispering self-sabotaging
doubts and untrue trash talkthat holds us back.
But here, we don't let thatnoise win.
This season we're celebratingthe season of shift.
(00:52):
Women on the edge ofreinvention.
It's for every woman standing atthe crossroads, ready to rewrite
her story, recognize her spark,and rise into the next version
of herself.
This is a space to honor thefierce, fabulous women who've
broken free from fear, crushedlimiting beliefs, and stepped
into their full, unstoppableselves.
(01:14):
Because let's be real, the mostpowerful thing any woman can
wear is her confidence.
I'm Tina Spolotini, your hostwith the Diva Selfcare Network,
bringing you real stories fromwomen who reclaimed their voice,
embraced their worth, and arelighting the way for all of us.
Ready to bloom into your nextchapter?
Let's dive in.
(01:37):
Today I'm joined with Rosemary,an intuitive life mastery
mentor, certified professionalcoach, hand analyst, and
laughter yoga leader.
After more than 31 years as aprofessor of early childhood
education, Rosemary now empowerswomen to align their businesses
with their sole purpose, embracetheir authenticity, and step
(01:58):
boldly into reinvention withpassion and prosperity.
Welcome, Rosemary.
Thank you, Tina.
It's great to see you again.
When you hear that, like whatdoes the um being on the edge of
(02:19):
reinvention mean to youpersonally?
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Um I I guess it's
about maybe we spend so much of
the early part of our livestrying to fit in and um make our
way through the world with whatwe're taught we should be like.
And then as we mature, we kindof start questioning this
(02:44):
doesn't feel completely right tome, or what about this part of
me that I wasn't allowed toexpress, or whatever.
And so we start moving more intowho our authentic self really
is.
And I would say that's therejuvenation.
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
I love that, I
really love that answer because
I often say, you know, as we getolder, we start to realize that
that's not who we are, right?
And even though like we we stillbelieve that that's who we're
supposed to be, right?
Because if that's what we weretaught, that's what we're
supposed to be doing.
For sure.
So, but then of course, youknow, life is different for
(03:26):
every generation.
And so what our moms wentthrough, it's different for us,
even though, like, I know my momwill often say, Oh, life is so
different today.
And yes, it is very differenttoday, but it's also the same,
right?
Like people are still people,right?
We have different resources,yes, right?
We have different things thatkeep our minds busy, but in I I
(03:50):
think, I mean, in my opinion, Iguess, I think we're still the
same.
SPEAKER_01 (03:55):
I agree.
Basically, we are human beingsat the core, right?
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
And I don't think
that we, I mean, sure, our
styles change and our, you know,everything that we're learning
is different, but we're still atthe at the at the core of us,
we're still the same as theywere hundreds of years ago,
right?
We just have more.
We have more, so much more towork with.
Now, you specialize in handanalysis.
I think that this is super,super intriguing.
(04:22):
So I'm gonna ask you a fewquestions about that, but let's
start.
How does having your soulpurpose validated through a hand
reading spark courage andinspire someone to truly pursue
what they desire?
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
Okay, that's such a
great question.
So, this is my own personalexperience and what I've seen
from many of the clients thatI've worked with is when you get
your hands analyzed, you findout what your soul purpose or
your life purpose is supposed tobe.
And that is the essence of whoyou are.
(05:00):
And just like we were talkingabout with the rejuvenation,
it's not always what we wereencouraged to be like.
So, for my own personal example,I was always very emotional and
I would easily get touched bythings and be moved.
And I grew up in a family whereI was told I was too emotional,
(05:24):
but I wasn't given analternative to what that would
be, or how to maybe temper it sothat it became more acceptable
in my parents' views.
It was just a label.
Oh, you're too emotional, you'retoo emotional.
Well, that didn't do me anygood, right?
(05:45):
And so I struggled for manyyears, went into college
teaching, which is pretty muchacademia, and bound, you know,
how do I balance between what myheart is calling to me and what
my head is calling to me?
And I struggled with that for along time.
But my my core interest hadalways been what makes people
(06:08):
tick?
Why do we do what we do?
How do we become who we are?
And whatever.
And when I studied to be a lifecoach back in 2002, um, a few
years later, I got my handsanalyzed.
A friend who was in the coachingprogram said, if you get your
hands analyzed, you'll know whoyour target market should be for
(06:31):
your coaching business.
And that was the reason why Igot my hands analyzed.
So the lady who did it lived inTucson.
I had never met her before.
She sent me a kit to print myhands.
And when I when she did myreading with me, I couldn't
believe how accurate it was.
And what it said was she calledit the healer with heart.
(06:55):
It can also be called um amaster communicator, which was
certainly what I was doing inbeing a teacher.
However, my calling had alwaysbeen to work with people on a
more emotional level.
And so it was like, okay, myheart's been calling me in that
direction.
I had taken social sciences, Ihad studied social work.
(07:18):
It's time now at 58, I was atthat point.
Um, I need to go and really tryand um build my business as a
coach.
So I gave myself the next yearbecause it was too late in the
year to decide to go that sameyear.
I gave myself one more year ofteaching and then left to go and
(07:39):
do my coaching.
And another client I have thathas a different story but a
similar nature.
She was raised in a family whereshe was taught you need to get
skills, a trade, somethingconcrete to make your way in the
world, to um have have as yourjob for the rest of your life.
(08:03):
And she was a very creativeperson.
And she did what she was told,fought her parents to go into
dental hygiene because she wasgoing to university for it, but
it was still a skilled trade,kind of a skilled profession,
really.
And when she got her handsanalyzed, she found out that her
(08:25):
life purpose was to be creative.
Well, she's a very, verytalented um fused glass artist,
and that gave her the courage todo more with her fused glass, to
know as she went into that thatthat was really what her soul
had been calling her to do.
(08:47):
And then subsequently, she madepeace with that dental hygiene
aspect of her life because fusedglass is a very expensive hobby
or or business.
And so she made peace with that.
She could work part-time inhygiene to gain the money she
needed to be able to make herbeautiful fused glass art.
(09:10):
So there's a couple, and I havemany more, but I think two is
probably enough to really showyou how it can help you be who
you really are.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Yeah, for sure.
And it just goes to show, right?
Like where there's a will,there's a way.
Right.
And if you're if you're reallymeant to do something, somehow
you're gonna find a way to dothat.
SPEAKER_01 (09:31):
I love or it'll
crush your spirit.
Yeah.
That's that's what ends uphappening if we don't do it.
If we don't do something, and itdoesn't have to be your job, it
just is it can be just bringmore of who you really came here
to be out in your life.
SPEAKER_02 (09:49):
Right, right.
Wow.
I mean, that's I mean, we couldtalk about that about for so
long, right?
Because I mean, there's so manyquestions that can come along
with that, right?
Wow.
Well, when what many womenstruggle with showing up
authentically in life and inbusiness, as you see.
(10:10):
Um why do you believe being yourauthentic self is is a major
attractor?
You know, like you, I mean, weneed to be that.
We need to be who we truly are,whether we're it's it's in life
or in business.
Why do you bel why do you thinkthat that is um so important?
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
Well, first of all,
I I believe that our outer world
is a mirror of our inner world.
So the more that we areauthentic, the more we're
drawing people to us whoresonate with that authenticity.
If we try to be something we'renot to get ahead, or to be a
(10:51):
people pleaser in personal life,or whatever way we're not being
authentic, we're gonna beattracting people to us that are
showing up as our inauthenticself and they're not a match.
We won't resonate with oneanother, or we will, but there
will be drama and stuffhappening that doesn't happen as
(11:17):
frequently when we're reallybeing authentic.
And I believe that it only takesa matter of time before people
start to see through ourfacades.
And so if we're saying we're onething and behaving differently,
but say building a business on aon a on a on an image that's not
(11:40):
how we really feel inside,people will see it, and or what
will happen is we're gonnacreate drama because the world's
gonna show us what we need inorder to drop that facade and
become our our authentic selves.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Right.
Isn't that the truth?
And also, too, and we all knowpeople that are not living their
authentic selves, and eventuallydefinitely been guilty of that
myself too.
SPEAKER_01 (12:08):
Right, right.
I mean, I think so.
SPEAKER_02 (12:11):
Yes, I think we've
all been there, right?
And then, but we also start torealize that you know, those are
the people we don't want aroundus, right?
You might like it might attractyou at the beginning, but when
you start to realize that thisis this, how can this be real?
How can this person really bethis way?
We start to pull ourselves away,right?
And if we're doing that, therest of the world is gonna do
(12:33):
that, right?
And I know myself, I want realpeople in my world, right?
Don't I don't need fake andphony and pretenders.
I want, you know, I want thereal thing.
Right.
And I think most of us do.
I think so.
At least I like to hope so,right?
Yeah, you know, and sometimes, Imean, let's face it, sometimes
we have off days and we're not,you know, we're definitely not
(12:56):
gonna be the same, you know.
I don't want to say the sameperson, but we don't have the
same behaviors two days in a rowif we're going through, you
know, some emotional stuff orsome stuff is going on at home.
But but at the end of the day,like you know the real people.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
Right?
Yeah, yes, yeah.
So change is it can beoverwhelming.
We all know this, right?
How do like as a coach, how dowomen take everything that they
know um really about themselvesand actually apply it to grow in
business and in life?
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
Well, I honestly
believe that we need coaches for
that.
I really do, because I don'talways see my own patterns and
what how I'm behaving and whatI'm doing.
But if I share that with you asmy coach, you have an objective
outlook on it and you can showme where I'm going off track and
(13:54):
help me with the wisdom that youhave to offer to get on track
again and to keep going forwardwhere I really want to go.
So we don't always we we oftenhave blind spots to our own um
challenges or our own ways, say,of sabotaging ourselves that an
outside person can see and helpsupport us in changing the
(14:17):
behaviors that aren't working.
And the other thing that a coachcan be really helpful for is
holding us accountable.
If we're not the type of personthat is good at doing that for
ourselves, we can let a lot oftime drift by where we're not
taking action on what we thinkwe want, where we think we want
to go.
So I I really believe in thevalue of coaching.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
Yeah, I I do agree.
Um, my mentor says that youknow, we can't see our label
from inside the jar.
Right.
That's a good way to put it.
And and it and it's true, right?
I mean, we can we sometimescan't see what we need to be
doing, right?
Sometimes we don't see ourselvesfor what we, you know, maybe I
don't know if like who we trulyare sometimes we don't see that,
(15:05):
right?
I mean, well, no, not sometimes.
I think most times.
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
A lot of times.
Yep.
Yeah, one of the one of thesmartest things I learned, or
the wisest things I learned fromDebbie Ford and and others in
the shadow work is that what weadmire in other people are
qualities we have in ourselvesthat we may not know are there.
What we point a finger and say,you're this, you're this, it's
(15:32):
got the same thing going oninside, but I may not be aware
of it.
And so that's one of the ways toknow where you want to go.
What do I admire?
Who do I admire in the world andwhat are those qualities?
And now I'll bring those up inmyself because they are
definitely there.
SPEAKER_02 (15:50):
Yeah.
And it goes like positive andnegative, right?
When we, you know, I call itbitch and complain about someone
else, it's because we seeourselves in that behavior,
right?
And that's why it grates on ournerves, right?
Because it's like, you know, howcan you not be perfect, right?
You need to set a good examplefor me.
(16:12):
I mean, well, I don't know.
It's not, it's not always thatdramatic, but it can be, right?
It can be, sure.
unknown (16:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:19):
So when you look
back, uh Rosemary, at your own
transition from professor tomentor, that's a huge, that is a
huge change, right?
What was the biggest challengethat you faced stepping into
your own next chapter?
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Well, it somebody
said this recently, and it and
it's totally true for me.
I had over 30 years as anemployee, and now I have to be
an entrepreneur to build mybusiness.
I don't have this have theskills that I need.
And so I have worked withdifferent mentors throughout the
(16:55):
last 15, 17 years.
I've worked with differentprograms to try to try to shift
that shift and get what I need,but I haven't always been able
to find the right mentors for mefor that business part.
So that's been my biggestchallenge.
How do I take the skills and getmyself marketed enough that the
(17:18):
people who could benefit from myservices can find me?
SPEAKER_02 (17:22):
Right, right.
And it's not easy, right?
You have to know the rightpeople.
And so I'm like, you need tokeep your network close, right?
That's, I mean, that's basicallywhat that comes down to, right?
You might not find the personyou need in the person beside
you, but that person might know.
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:41):
And you have to be
have to be willing to say, okay,
this person I've chosen isn'tthe right person for me.
I need to keep searching and notfeel like, oh, I can't do it.
I'm a failure.
Well, I don't think that's true.
I think there's other thingsthat get in the way, one of them
being the spells that we havearound being safe and asking for
(18:02):
what we want in the world andthings like that.
But the other being finding amentor in business who is
somebody you resonate with, andthat you can you can implement
what they teach you because it'sin alignment with who you are.
SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
Right.
Great answer.
I love that answer.
So for the women that arelistening, um, that are feeling
stuck or uncertain right now,what's the first step that you
would suggest that they take toalign with their with their deep
purpose?
SPEAKER_01 (18:32):
I'd sit down and
make a list of all the things
that your heart's been callingyou to do.
What have you really secretly ornot so secretly always wanted to
do?
And look for a pattern in there.
And if it's something related toa job, find out what you might
(18:54):
do to get into that kind ofoccupation.
And if it's something morepersonal, how do I become more
of that person that I want tobe?
So I would say one of thebiggest lessons that I've ever
learned is when something Idon't like happens, instead of
feeling like a victim, if I ask,how is it for me?
(19:18):
It helps me to see, oh, what doI need to do to take advantage
of this?
Maybe it's a lesson I'velearned, maybe it's brought up a
spell that I have around acertain area that's keeping me
from being able to have what Ireally want in life.
But looking for the the thatdeep interpersonal,
(19:42):
intrapersonal, um, how can howcan I become more of who I
really want to be?
And being able to love yourselfenough to be true to yourself
because what I want to be as aperson may not be what some of
the people around me think isbest for me.
And I have to be willing topursue it anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
Ooh, that's where
the self-love comes in, right?
Yeah.
Like that's that's gonna be thehard part, right?
That's yeah, I can go after whatI want, but how is everyone else
gonna react to that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What so I mean, in in lifecoaching, we we deal with that
like a lot, right?
What is your advice?
(20:28):
I don't we can't give advice,but I mean, what what do you
tell your clients when thatcomes up, right?
Like, how do you walk themthrough that?
Because that's tough.
SPEAKER_01 (20:38):
I guess I have I
have to really transfer my
belief in their ability to bethat or do that to them as best
I possibly can for them to knowI've got their back, at least in
terms of emotional support,because I may not physically be
there to help them out, but atleast they know they've got
somebody who believes in them,and that can help them help
(21:02):
support them as they go throughthe experiences.
And then as we go through them,we start to develop the courage
we need to keep on going throughthem.
Right.
And they start to they start tofall away.
The more true to ourselves weare, the less likely the people
around us are gonna be fussingbecause they aren't gonna want
(21:23):
to be around us and we will findthe people who do.
SPEAKER_02 (21:27):
Right, right.
It's so true, and I think wejust need to sit back and accept
that, right?
Accept that we might lose thepeople that we thought were our
friends.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
We see those memes on on umFacebook all the time, right?
You know you who your truefriends are, right?
When things go rough, who'sreally around?
Right.
(21:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
So now you have talked about umin a little bit in this
conversation, but also in inconversations that I've had with
you in the past about passion,purpose, prosperity.
Uh, what does that look like inpractice?
And how can women learn to, Iguess, embody it now?
SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
Well, I think the I
think the passion comes from
that true conviction of beingwho you are and doing what you
want to do.
And I mean that in the mostnon-selfish way, selfish in the
bad sense of selfish way.
It's not like I'm gonna stompall over someone else to do it,
(22:31):
but I'm not gonna let otherpeople's disapproval stop me.
And the more that I'm doingthat, the more I'm fueled by um
how much happier I am, how muchmore I'm able to serve others
with what I have to offer them.
Um and then that I I believethat that results often in um a
(22:58):
greater flow of of money comingback to you because people will
they're they're going to be morelikely to choose you when they
can see you as you really are,they will know that you're the
one for them, as opposed toattracting people who may think
that they want to work with you,but then when they when they
(23:19):
realize that that you're not amatch, then they want to walk
away from the from therelationship you have with them,
whether that's as a coach ormentor or whatever your whatever
your business is.
SPEAKER_02 (23:32):
That is very true.
And I could see that, right?
I mean, you have to be true toyourself before you can be true
to anyone else.
Right?
Yeah, or like it goes withanything.
If you can't love yourself, youcan't teach others how to love
you, right?
And respect and and all the thethe all the things that you
need, you need to give yourselffirst before someone else can
give it to you.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (23:54):
Yeah, and
unfortunately, like we said at
the beginning, right?
It takes us years to figure thatout.
SPEAKER_01 (24:00):
Hopefully, it
hopefully some of the younger
generation will get it faster.
Some of them seem to be prettyadvanced compared to what I was
like as a child.
SPEAKER_02 (24:10):
So true.
I remember saying to my kids,you know, when they were little,
if you don't respect yourself,no one else will.
And you have to teach others howyou want to be loved.
And I don't even know where Ilearned that, and in all
honesty, but I remember sayingthat to them.
And my daughter has struggledwith that because she is like
(24:30):
um, you know, she defines peoplepleaser, right?
And so I look, I think so.
I was trying to teach yousomething that you were not
understanding.
And then I think, well, maybethat's what I taught her, right?
Because we we learn from, butthen I'm like, I don't think I
mean, sure, I was a peoplepleaser to some degree.
I know that, right?
(24:51):
But not a hundred percent.
You know, I did sort of lookback and go, no, I don't think
that's gonna work for me.
So I'm gonna have to refuse.
Maybe not to the importantthings that she was watching.
I don't know.
I can't figure that part out.
But I mean, that's what it allcomes down to.
Am I right?
Like we if we we have to knowwhat we want in order to give
ourselves what we want and need.
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Very true.
Yeah, very true.
I'll tell you, Tina, I spentprobably 50 odd years trying to
get love from other people, notrealizing that love comes from
within, and that if they walkaway, I could still be in love
with myself and have that lovingfeeling.
I didn't need to get itsomewhere else.
(25:33):
But it took me a long time tolearn that lesson.
SPEAKER_02 (25:36):
Yeah, there's so
many things that I've learned in
the last, I don't know, five orten years that wow, and it's at
the tip of your fingertips.
It's not, and it's not yourphone, right?
We have it all within us, right?
But we're always looking outsidefor the answers.
Yeah, I've learned that.
And it's been a little bit ofthe hard way, I'll be honest,
(25:57):
right?
Because sometimes, you know, Iwas told, you know, um, you
know, a coach asked me aquestion once and I'm like, I
don't know.
And she was like, Really, Tina?
Like, think about it, right?
But I wouldn't take that secondto to go inside and think about
it.
Right.
And I was like, crazy.
She doesn't know what she'stalking about, she doesn't know
(26:18):
me, right?
First sign, right?
First sign that you know, ohyeah, yeah.
Look inside because the answeris there.
For sure.
Yeah.
Now you have you do skin uhfinger, okay.
What do we call it?
Hand analysis.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Hand analysis.
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
So maybe explain to
us what that is, and I know you
have an offer for that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
Right.
So I I do two types of readings.
One is the fingerprints only.
So your fingerprints are formedwhen you're in the womb, and
they will tell me what your lifepurpose or your soul purpose is,
the school that you're in inthis lifetime, and that's love,
peace, service, or wisdom.
And your school, while thepurpose is the essence of who
(27:04):
you are, your school is like theschool that you go to.
You are going to have lots andlots of experiences to gain
mastery in that particularschool or schools.
And then it will also, yourfingerprints will also reveal
the biggest challenge that youhave to work on in order to be
(27:25):
able to fulfill your lifepurpose.
The rest of our hand is a map ofour personality.
So this is formed in the womb,never changes.
The rest of our hand is areflection of our personality.
How do I think and feel and actor don't act?
Where do I spend my energy?
(27:46):
All of that shows up in yourhands based on whether your
lines are curved or flat,whether they're long or short,
the shape of your hand, thesection sizes of your fingers.
So, and there are 16 giftmarkers.
One is found on the babyfingertip, but the other 15 are
all on the palm.
(28:07):
So if you have a gift, the giftsunfortunately come with a
penalty.
And the penalty won't go awayuntil you use the gift.
So if you have an experiencewhere you're saying going around
in circles, getting nowhere,there can be a gift marker on
(28:27):
your hand that will say, Oh, youneed to be doing XYZ.
And if you do XYZ, that spinningin circles will stop.
So that can all be revealed in afull hand analysis reading.
If I do the fingerprints only,it's$49.
And if I do the whole hand, it's$149.
(28:50):
And with the whole hand, well,given that our audience is going
to be at a distance, everybody'sgoing to get a written report.
But the full hand report willtake me quite a bit of time to
delve into anything that I canpossibly find on the hands.
And then I type it all up andsend it to people.
So you've got something you canuse forever.
SPEAKER_02 (29:11):
Wow.
So now, okay, so tell me, isthis the same thing as going to
a psychic and having your palmsread?
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
No.
No, I don't do any predictionsat all.
I always make a joke and I saythe one prediction I can make is
if you keep on doing what you'vealways been doing, you're going
to get the same results.
That's it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:31):
And that's, I mean,
that just defines crazy anyway,
right?
Like we're just we're allrunning in a circle.
Okay.
So this is great to know.
Thank you so much for that.
And um, we have your contactinformation in the show notes.
We will also uh put your offerin the the notes as well for
anyone who is you knowinterested.
Is there anything else that youwould like our listeners to hear
(29:53):
from you today?
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
Um, just you know
what, whatever whatever your
heart's calling you.
To do whatever you really feelyou want to accomplish in this
lifetime, go for it.
Get the help of somebody thatcan support you along the way.
It definitely doesn't need to beme because everybody won't
resonate with me.
(30:15):
But you will be able to findsomebody that could be your
coach and help you to bring outwhat you really want to do.
And don't let the don't let yourlifetime pass away without you
fulfilling what you really wantto do.
SPEAKER_02 (30:29):
I love that.
Thank you so much for that.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
You're welcome,
Tina.
Thanks so much for having me.
It was great to talk to you.
SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
Yes, it always is.
Thank you so much for listeningto Confidence in Bloom, where we
celebrate the amazing,brilliant, and beautiful woman
you already are.
This season of Shift is yourinvitation to rise, reinvent,
and reconnect with the womanyou're becoming.
You don't need to look like amovie star or a supermodel
because they don't even looklike that.
(30:57):
You are already enough, worthyof love, success, and a life
that feels as good as it looks.
We give so much love to everyoneelse.
It's time to pour some of thatlove back into you.
If you're ready to reclaim yourconfidence and step into your
chapter, I'm offeringpersonalized coaching, three
focused sessions to help youbuild unshakable confidence,
(31:19):
define your personal brand, andcreate a signature style that
reflects who you truly are.
Because she comes in every shapeand size, and reinvention has no
expiration date.
Want to be a guest here onConfidence in Bloom?
Let's connect.
Find me on Instagram atInfobloom Styling, email Tina at
Infobloomstyling.com or visitthe Divas That Care Network
(31:42):
website.
SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
Until next time,
keep blooming boldly and
confidently.com, where you cansubscribe to our newsletter so
you don't miss a thing.