October 7, 2025 • 45 mins
Come and listen to our Host, Tina Spoletini, as she chats with today's guest, Dr. Carol Perlman, for our "Season of Shift: Women on the Edge of Reinvention" Podcast Series.
This series spotlights women who used this reflective season (Oct–Dec) to make major life pivots—career changes, endings, spiritual awakenings, and brave beginnings.
Dr. Carol Perlman is a Licensed Psychologist and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy specialist with over 25 years of experience helping people break patterns and reach their goals. She has worked at top institutions including Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital and co-authored a leading treatment series for adults with ADHD. In 2014, she founded Healthy 4 Life, where she coaches individuals and organizations on building habits that boost health, productivity, and work-life balance. She is also the host of the Healthy Habits 4 Life podcast.
https://courses.itsabouttimemanagement.com/morning-momentum
www.healthy4lifebycarolperlman.com
www.itsabouttimemanagement.com/tm
www.itsabouttimemanagement.com/metime
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/healthy-habits-4-life-with-dr-carol-perlman/id1560995497
https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Your-Adult-ADHD-Cognitive-Behavioral/dp/019023556X
Change doesn’t happen because we suddenly feel brave; it happens because we design our days to make the brave thing easier to do. Tina sits down with Dr. Carol Perlman—licensed psychologist, CBT expert, and host of Healthy Habits for Life—to unpack the practical side of reinvention: how to quiet the inner critic, use time blocking to protect what matters, and turn intentions into routines that run on autopilot. From consolidating scattered to-dos into a single system, to choosing one weekly planning session that makes the whole week smoother, Carol shows how small, repeatable actions add up to real momentum.
We explore the power of boundaries, especially for women who’ve been trained to go last. A gentle “yes—after 20 minutes” can rewrite your self-trust without sacrificing care for others. Carol shares why accountability partners work so well for workouts and hard tasks, and how to build the habit loop so “Do I feel like it?” stops being the question. We also talk about embracing new seasons—like empty nesting—by anchoring joy-filled routines (hello, tennis) and collaborations that expand your impact. Along the way, Carol’s journey from Harvard-affiliated clinical work to group programs and corporate trainings reveals how mentorship, simple tools, and experiments can open doors you didn’t know existed.
If you’re feeling stuck or “too set in your ways,” this conversation offers a kinder path: name one change, break it into a few concrete steps, schedule them, and protect them. Over weeks, you won’t just act differently—you’ll become someone who keeps promises to herself. For resources, check out Carol’s free Morning Momentum guide and her productivity and habit-building programs. If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a nudge, and leave a quick review to help more women find their next chapter.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
It's Divas the Care Radio.
Stories, strategies, and ideasto inspire positive change.
Welcome to Divas That Care, anetwork of women committed to
making our world a better placefor everyone.
This is a global movement forwomen, by women engaged in a
collaborative effort to create abetter world for future
generations.
(00:20):
To find out more about themovement, visit divas that
care.com after the show.
Right now, though, stay tunedfor another jolt of inspiration.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Welcome to Confidence in Bloom, where bold
women rise, shine, and own theirpower.
We all face that pesky innercritic, what I call the itty
bitty shitty committee,whispering self-sabotaging
doubts and untrue trash talkthat hold us back.
But here, we don't let thatnoise win.
This season, we're celebratingthe season of shift, women on
the edge of reinvention.
(00:53):
It's for every woman standing atthe crossroads, ready to rewrite
her story, reignite her spark,and rise into the next version
of herself.
This is a space to honor thefierce, fabulous women who've
broken free from fear, crushedlimiting beliefs, and stepped
into their full, unstoppableselves.
Because let's be real, the mostpowerful thing any woman can
(01:15):
wear is her confidence.
I'm Tina Spolotini, your hostwith Adivas That Care Network,
bringing you real stories fromwomen who reclaimed their voice,
embraced their worth, and arelighting the way for all of us.
Are you ready to bloom into yournext chapter?
Let's dive in.
Today I'm chatting with Dr.
Carol Perlman, a licensedpsychologist and cognitive
(01:38):
behavioral therapy specialistwith over 25 years of experience
helping people break patternsand reach their goals.
She has worked at topinstitutions, including Harvard
Medical School and MassachusettsGeneral Hospital, and
co-authored a leading treatmentseries for adults with ADHD.
In 2014, she founded Healthy forLife, where she coaches
(02:01):
individuals and organizations onbuilding habits that boost
health, productivity, andwork-life balance.
She is also the host of theHealthy Habits for Life podcast.
So welcome, Carol.
(02:21):
Thank you so much for having metoday.
Of course, I'm so lookingforward to this.
Now, I want to start with youknow, you are a psychologist,
right?
Now you're also a cognitivebehavioral therapy specialist.
Is that not the same thing?
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
So it's a subdivision of a psychologist.
So there are many differentapproaches to therapy.
Cognitive behavioral therapy isone of many.
And it's a more modern approach.
It's been around since um maybethe early 60s.
And the idea is that we look atthe patterns playing out today
(03:00):
that connect the situationsyou're in with the thoughts
you're having, how your thoughtsimpact your feelings, how your
thoughts and feelings impactyour behaviors, and how all of
those go round and round tocreate your outcome today.
So sometimes we do go back andrevisit early childhood
experiences mostly to understandlike where did this thought
pattern come from, or where didyou learn, you know, this
(03:22):
behavioral pattern.
But the main focus is what'sgoing on today, and how do we
teach you skills for managingday-to-day situations
differently?
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Okay, I love that.
So, I mean, I'm fascinated withhow the brain works and how like
why people do what we do, likewhy do we do what we do, right?
I love that, that whole concept.
And, you know, I know some of itgoes back to, you know, before
we're seven years old, some ofit comes back to, you know, just
regular patterns that we'vecreated throughout our lives,
(03:53):
right?
And I'm always fascinated by, ohmy God, that is so cool.
I would have never thought,right?
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah.
unknown (03:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
But the good news is we can always create change,
even if something has an originfrom many, many years ago, we
can always create change.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
I love that.
You know, my mother has alwayssaid to me that, you know,
humans are creatures of habit,and I truly believe that.
But she's also said to me overthe years that when we get old,
you know, we get so deep intoour habits that we cannot
change.
And she said to me actually justa couple of weeks ago that I'm
old now, that'll never change,right?
And I remember sitting therethinking, but that can't be
(04:30):
possible, right?
Yeah.
I mean, obviously you have to bewilling to make the change,
right?
Because there are people intheir 80s and 90s that took a
coaching course with me.
Like they're still willing tochange themselves and help
others do their, you know,whatever change.
So I love that.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So when you um I mean, obviouslyyou had an accomplished career
(04:55):
in psychology, but what inspiredyou to change, like to make the
shift into like a health habitcoaching and your
entrepreneurship?
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Yeah.
So it's it's really a wild storyand it goes back to my origin.
So I began graduate school.
I was very young, I was maybe22, just out of college, and I
arrived at this program and Iwas interested in the connection
between carbohydrates and mood.
People were not talking about itback then.
This was really kind of obscure.
(05:25):
I don't know why.
I just kind of had this inkling,but there was a powerful
connection, and I wanted tostudy it.
And so I did all sorts ofintricate studies on people's
nutrition patterns, their sleeppatterns, exercise, substance
use, and how that connected towell-being and depression.
And it was really fascinating,and I absolutely loved it.
(05:46):
Again, nobody was talking aboutthis.
Very few people were talkingabout this at the time.
But, you know, then over theyears, I graduated and I, you
know, took my first couple ofjobs in big academic medical
settings, and I got pulled intomore traditional work of a
psychologist helping people withthings like anxiety and
depression and trauma.
And um, one of my areas ofexpertise became helping adults
(06:08):
with ADHD.
So I did a lot of work with agroup of colleagues.
We were asked to develop aprogram for adults because back
then, this was over 20 years agonow, there really wasn't much
out there.
Fortunately, it's very differentnow.
But at the time, there reallywasn't much out there.
There were medications, but wewere looking at people who were
still struggling, even thoughthey were on what we would
(06:29):
consider to be adequatemedication, but they were still
having problems.
So, how could we help them learnskills above and beyond what the
medications were going to do?
So I was basically doing all ofthat work for many years.
I had I've had a privatepractice for 20 years, but about
10 years ago, you know, thislittle whisper was just calling
to me, and I really wanted toget back into the sphere of
(06:50):
wellness.
And so I started promotinghealth coaching, and I wanted to
use all these skills that I nowhad for behavioral change.
How do you help people changetheir thoughts, change their
emotions, change theirbehaviors?
I wanted to apply it to healthhabits because I saw what was
happening was that doctors wouldmake recommendations and say,
(07:11):
oh, you have cardiovasculardisease, I want you to modify
your diet in this way.
Oh, you have diabetes, I wantyou to make these changes.
But the doctors didn't know howto help people actually do that
day in and day out, nor did theyhave the time to do that.
And I just saw there was such anopportunity for me to use my
skills and help people in thisway.
(07:31):
And I wanted to roll up mysleeves and get into the
nitty-gritty, what's going onday in and day out that makes it
hard to regulate your foodintake.
And how can I make that feelmore doable for people and help
them create the health habits soit's just automatic.
So it became a gradual shift.
I was doing that in my privatepractice.
I worked with a another healthand wellness uh company
(07:55):
distributing their products andalso coaching people to use the
tools for at-home workouts.
And um and then in 2020, I uhlet's see, I realized so this
was just the start of COVID, andI was actually a friend of mine
actually helped asked me to helpher.
She had undiagnosed ADHD and shesaid to me, You're so
(08:18):
productive.
You know, you tell me you'regonna do this one day and then
you do it.
How do you make that happen?
Can you help me?
And so we got to talking and wesaid, Well, if I'm gonna help
you, I might as well help lotsof people at the same time
because there's so many people,you know, in that boat.
And so I basically adapted theprogram that we had created for
ADHD into a program that wasrelevant for the general
(08:39):
population, a time managementprogram to help people with um
productivity, procrastination,basically how do you get your
stuff done in less time so thatyou can free up more time to
guilt-free, relax, have fun,spend time with your family, do
the things that you love, andoverall create a better
work-life balance.
(09:00):
And so that was really the bigpivotal moment for me was in
2020 when I started doing thatand decided to focus um
exclusively on teaching groupprograms going into companies
and teaching their teams how towork more efficiently, create
better work-life balance,decrease burnout, which was
becoming such a big thingthroughout COVID and and beyond.
(09:22):
Um, so I still maintain aprivate practice on the side.
I still love um being atherapist and helping people
one-on-one.
So I'm doing both these days.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Well, I love that.
I mean, I mean, I'll be honest,the whole, you know, habit
change, we all need, we all needto like grasp it, right?
And and now not everybody has tomake major changes, but even
little changes.
We all have some kind of habitsthat we don't like about
ourselves, right?
And so it sounds like theprogram that you designed is,
(09:55):
you know, something that couldhelp pretty much anyone.
100%.
And so now you call it healthylike health habits that you're
changing.
And so, I mean, clearly it wasdirected at, you know, people
that were having health issueslike cardiovascular disease and
and diabetes, and I'm sure therewere others.
Um, what kind of I'm justcurious as to what kind of
(10:18):
habits does that include?
Is it like, you know, it's notsomething minor like time
blocking where you, you know,you put on your calendar and you
say, okay, from this time you'regoing to clean your bedroom.
And then, right?
Like, I mean, that's easy.
Don't get me wrong, that's supereasy.
And that's something that Iteach my clients as well.
But I don't know about anyoneelse, but I know myself.
(10:40):
Even if though it started withif it's on my calendar, I'll get
it done because then I know thatI only have so much time to do
it.
But I was a stay-at-home mom.
And when my all my kids were inschool, it was easy to say, oh,
I'll do it tomorrow, right?
I have time tomorrow, or I'll doit after lunch, right?
I'm gonna go for coffee and thenwhen I get back, I'll do it.
(11:01):
And I mean, if once I leave thehouse, forget it.
I'm not coming home to do stuff.
It's just not gonna happen,right?
I was like that in my 20s and30s, I'm still like that in my
50s.
So, how do you work, like how doyou walk people around like
through that?
Like, how do you help them, youknow, grasp the idea?
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
Here's the thing.
So you are already well versedin the idea of time blocking.
Many people are not.
So I would say the majority ofpeople that come through my
programs are accustomed tohaving certain things in their
calendar that they know theyhave a date and time.
Like you and I knew we weremeeting at a certain time, so
that's in the calendar.
Oh, I have a doctor'sappointment, I know that's
(11:39):
Wednesday at night.
So those are much easier to getto and make happen because we
know exactly when they're goingto happen.
But then there's everything elsethat I call the white space.
So it's all that unstructuredtime that's sort of over here in
one bucket.
And then over here are the isthe list of to-dos, which I hope
people have.
This is one of the things Iteach is to make sure they're
(12:00):
all in one place and they're notscattered, you know, stickies
here, text to myself there,voicemail to myself, a note
written on a stray piece ofmail, you know.
So that's one thing we have toclean up right away is we have
to streamline everything, get itall in one place.
But then we have the task ofmarrying that list of to-dos
with the white space.
So, how are you gonna get themall done?
(12:21):
Honestly, that's where peopleget jammed up because the list
gets really overwhelming.
They can't really figure out itall feels important, they feel
like it all should have beendone yesterday.
So, how do you pick out on agiven day what's the important
thing to do?
And then people get really stuckwith procrastination, they can't
decide, so then they spend allthis time scrolling social
media, watching Netflix, doingother things that really aren't
(12:44):
important.
So the very first thing we haveto do is establish a really
solid system with your calendar,your to-do list, and how you're
gonna integrate them, decide andfigure out what are the
priorities on a given day orweek, and then figure out when
exactly you're gonna get themdone.
So I like to teach the habit ofidentifying one day during the
(13:07):
week when you're going to set upyour plan for the whole week,
and you make that a lifelonghabit.
So for me, I like to do it onSunday.
Sometimes I do it on Saturdaybecause I just I want to make
sure that it's done, and thenI'm actually excited for the
week.
Like I don't feel overwhelmed, Ifeel totally in control because
I know exactly how what it'sgonna look like.
(13:27):
Obviously, things are gonna comeup, things are gonna change a
little bit, but the bulk of itis all mapped out.
So back to, you know, the healthhabits.
So when I think of healthhabits, it's really a very broad
label, you know.
So that's health habits, that'sproductivity, that's when are
you gonna take care of yourstuff and get it done, and then
when you're gonna take care ofyou, your body, have your meals,
(13:49):
exercise, do things for fun, dothings to relax, spend time with
your family.
So it's all of that.
And so what I find is that ifyou haven't time blocked it,
it's not gonna happen.
So if you say, Yeah, you know,I'd like to get in better shape
this year, you know, I think I Iwant to, you know, go to the gym
three times a week.
If it's if you leave it at that,I just want to get to the gym
(14:11):
three times a week, it's notgonna happen unless you know
more specifically exactly when.
Oh, it's gonna happen Monday,Wednesday, and Friday from four
to five.
Okay, now I know the plan.
Now there's still a task, a taskto do, which is to problem solve
the obstacles because there willstill be many.
You know, a kid asks you todrive them somewhere, or you
(14:32):
have a tech glitch that day, andnow you're on tech support all
day long and you didn't get theother thing done.
So things come up all the time.
You have to rework the schedule.
But when you have that solidframework in place, it makes it
so much more doable to just makethe small adjustments along the
way.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Yeah, I get that.
And then also, too, along withthat is you learn how to set
boundaries, right?
Like, you know, like, okay, Ihave to be at the gym, right, at
10 o'clock this morning.
And, you know, your son is like,well, mom, can we stop?
You know, can you bring me tothis place?
Yeah, I can, but I we eitherhave to leave the house at nine
(15:09):
o'clock, right?
So you're gonna have to get yourass out of bed, or you're gonna
have to go, you know, take thebus and I can pick you up on the
way back.
Like you, you know, you setboundaries that way because you
can't, I mean, I think once youstart letting yourself down,
right?
And I think most women are, youknow, can probably relate with
this.
You put myself aside, right?
(15:30):
Okay, I'll go to the gym, I'llgo to the gym after lunch,
right?
Because he needs me right now,right?
But we have to learn how to stopdoing that, right?
You know, like we're not sayingyou don't say no to your kid,
your kid still will always needyou, but you he has to learn how
to respect your boundaries aswell as you respecting your own
(15:51):
boundaries.
Yeah, I love that.
I really love that.
And that can be a podcast on itsown, this whole setting
boundaries, right?
Like, oh my gosh, there's somuch to say.
SPEAKER_02 (15:59):
It's so hard.
I mean, even though you and Icould sit here and say, yeah,
that's so important, it's stillreally hard.
And I actually I just cameacross, I don't know if it was a
blog post or a Facebook postthat I had written about this,
but this probably happened lastyear.
So my kids are 16 and 19.
They're not little anymore.
You know, they they know aboutdelayed gratification and, you
(16:21):
know, they have more cognitiveskills.
But I was on a Peloton ride inmy basement, and my son came
down and asked me for something.
And I actually said to him,Yeah, happy to do it, but in 20
minutes when I'm done with myride.
And I think that might have beenone of the few times that I had
done that.
That was so new in the past, Iprobably would have hopped off
(16:42):
and be like, yep, I guess I'mnot gonna finish my ride today,
and I'm gonna go help him dowhatever.
And it felt so hard anddifferent and amazing to say to
him, no, actually, we're gonnawait 20 minutes and then I'll do
that.
And life went on.
He was totally fine.
Yeah.
But what a concept, right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
Yeah.
And I know, like with my kids, Idid it with my heart.
I never like, you know, I neverdid anything out of obligation,
but I know there were timeswhere I, you know, I'd rather be
helping my kids than doingwhatever it was I was doing,
right?
And so then it was like, ah,I'll do it later.
My kid needs me.
But that's an excuse, right?
(17:20):
I mean, the truth is what theydemand of you, you there's
always time for it.
Yeah.
Right.
Unless, of course, they'vefallen and they've gotten hurt.
That's different.
But if they're just asking youto put yourself aside so you can
help them, that's that's whenthe boundaries need to come in.
But we want to talk aboutreinvention.
So when you when you reinventedyourself, I mean, I'm gonna
(17:40):
assume that that was it took abit of a reinvention when you
started creating these um likethe healthy habits uh workshops
that you created or programs, Iguess they would have been for
these adults.
When did you realize that youwere like reinventing your own
life?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
I know it's so wild because you don't necessarily
know that it's happening as itis happening.
And, you know, your career is astrue as life, but it's your
career just kind of evolves andyou never know how many zigs and
zags you're gonna take beforeyou get to the end of your
career.
And it just it's so entertainingto me.
(18:20):
I guess that's maybe the bestword, that you know, to think
about where my career is now andwhere it started, because these
platforms did not exist when Iwas in graduate school.
There was no social media andthere were no online courses,
there was no Kajabi, you know,there was no Google Classroom,
there was none of that.
And so this kind of work justsimply didn't exist.
(18:42):
You go to school to become apsychologist, you imagine you're
gonna have an office, people aregonna come in.
There was no Zoom, there was notelehealth, you know, it
literally didn't exist.
And so, you know, we have toevolve over time as technology
evolves and as the demands ofthe world evolve, we have to be
able to change with it andadapt.
And so some of that justhappened over time.
(19:04):
So we were doing a littletelehealth before COVID
happened, although there wereall sorts of issues with
insurance and it was, you know,sort of accepted, but sort of
not, you know, it definitelywasn't mainstream the way it is
now, but that was slowlyevolving.
And then the digital platformswere slowly evolving.
And some people, I don't know, Idon't know what kind of pulled
(19:27):
me into them because I'm surethere are plenty of people who
know they're out there, but theyjust didn't want to learn them.
But I just think little bylittle I just got exposed.
And, you know, we were talkingearlier about a friend of mine
who played such a big role in memaking this change, and she had
an online business, so shereally taught me a lot.
You know, she had all thesystems like how do you set up a
checkup cart, a checkout cartand um, you know, building a
(19:51):
website.
So she had already done it andshe taught me a lot.
She gave me the names of all ofthe platforms that she was
using.
So I basically did.
I didn't really do the research,I just used whatever she told me
to use.
And then over time, some of themI updated as I realized there
might have been different onesthat could do different things.
So I changed over the years, butum, it was really having sort of
an unofficial mentor who was afew steps ahead of me who paved
(20:16):
the way, made it feel moredoable for me, and we did it
together.
And it's always more fun to dothings together.
And I just found I reallyenjoyed it.
I love writing, I'm a reallycreative person, so I love you
know designing the websites anddesigning programs and Canva,
you know, going in and makingworkbooks for my clients.
So I've I was surprised to findthat I really loved all of use,
(20:38):
I loved using all of the otherskills in addition to the
behavioral change skills thatI've had for a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Well, and I think that's part of like enjoying the
change, right?
Like you're because you'relearning at the same time, like
when you're creating all thisstuff, your brain is like, whoa,
this is awesome.
What more can I do?
Right.
And then it really is.
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
And I think that's part of it.
Now, I mean, you know, I mean,better than you and I, like
(21:07):
you'll know this for sure.
Women are great at hesitatingwhen it comes to change, right?
Yeah.
Because I mean, let's face it,change is hard, right?
What what how do you workthrough that?
Like, how do you help them sortof deal with what could be
happening and what might happen?
Like, you know, like positiveand negative, right?
(21:28):
I mean, I'm sure you wentthrough it yourself.
You could probably bring thatinto your own, like your
clients' work.
How do you how do you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
So, you know, we talked about the premise of
cognitive behavioral therapy,which is learning more about
your thoughts and how impactfulyour thoughts are in everything.
So that's the always the firstplace my brain goes is when
you're feeling something, likeyou're feeling that hesitation.
I always want to know what areyou thinking?
And can we isolate thosethoughts?
Are you having thoughts of thisis going to be hard?
(21:58):
I'm going to fail, this isn'tgoing to work, I'm going to be a
disaster.
Someone else has already donethis.
Like all those thoughts canreally derail you.
And so we have to identify themand then we have to really check
them out, get a little distancefrom them, examine them, decide
are they helpful?
Do we really want to keep thesethoughts around, or do we want
to turn the volume down on thoseand turn the volume up on some
(22:20):
more helpful thoughts?
So that's place number one thatI go to is doing some work.
It's mindset work, really.
But the other thing I wanted tomake sure we talked about today,
which is so relevant with that,uh or relevant to that, is the
idea of accountability partners.
So, you know, I'm sure thisconcept has been around forever
and ever.
I personally really never heardof it until maybe eight or 10
(22:43):
years ago when I really got intothe coaching world and the world
of personal development.
But man, do I wish that I knewabout it sooner.
So, for people listening whoaren't familiar with this
concept, accountability partnersare people that you have an
agreement with that they'regoing to serve this role for
you, and you basically agreethat you're going to share your
(23:05):
stated goal with them, whatyou're working on, and what you
attend to do to help you get tothat goal.
And they expect a check-in, theyexpect some follow-up.
So you can negotiate what thatlooks like.
But it might be something liketoday, I'm going to, you know,
do that one-hour intro video onthis new platform.
(23:26):
And I'm going to um, you know,follow steps one through 10 that
they say we're going to do inthat first one hour video.
That may be something that'sbecause you don't really know
how to do it, it's out of yourcomfort zone.
So let's say you and I, youagreed to be my accountability
partner.
I would text you and I wouldsay, Tina, my plan today is I'm
going to do that one hourtraining and I'm going to text
(23:48):
you at the end of the day andtell you that I did it.
Well, now that it's out there,and now that I know that you
know, I'm going to be morelikely to do it because I
certainly don't want to text youat the end of the day and yeah,
I decided to watch Netflixinstead and I didn't get around
to it.
I'm going to feel like an idiotif I tell you that.
And so by preempt, I'mpreempting myself basically and
(24:09):
making that goal known to you.
And now that's going to ensurethat I'm held accountable to
this.
So I still use this all thetime, even though in general I'm
very productive and I'm reallydisciplined and focused.
I have my own challenges too,and I get in my own way all the
time.
So I use accountability partnersfor my workouts.
(24:30):
I use it for hard tasks that Iknow I don't want to do.
And it's really so valuable.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
I love that.
So my husband, I don't I don'tcall him an accountability
partner at any time, but it youmade me think that there's lots
of times where he'll be like,So, did you get done what you
said you were gonna get done?
And I'm I sit there beside himon the couch and I'm like, You
have to remember that now.
Like, why didn't you ask me thatat four o'clock when I still had
(24:59):
time to finish it?
Because now I'm I'm on thecouch, I'm parked, I am not
moving, and I'm not only part.
SPEAKER_02 (25:04):
So he's a self-appointed accountability
partner.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
And I do love that, and I thinkyou know, and I know that for
myself, that's why I startedputting things into the
calendar, like for timeblocking, because that was, you
know, as a stay-at-home mom, Ididn't feel like I needed an
accountability partner, as yousay.
That was I was being my ownaccountability partner.
It was like I need to get thisdone, right?
(25:28):
And then slowly when I startedto like it when it became a
habit, right?
Then I started to go, you knowwhat?
If I don't do it, I'm the onlyone who's gonna be hurt by it,
right?
And so now I do have anaccountability partner and I use
her mostly for work, but I'mlike, I I don't have like I
can't do that anymore, right?
(25:49):
Like I need to get I need to getthings done.
And I don't do like if I don'tdo it, I'm the one who's gonna
hurt because my business willhurt, right?
Yeah, and it I mean it takespractice, right?
It takes a lot of practice and alot of you know failures, right,
to get there, as you I'm sure.
SPEAKER_02 (26:07):
I mean, that's the thing about being self-employed,
being an entrepreneur, or evenhaving any kind of job where you
have a lot of autonomy.
If you don't find a way to makeyourself do the things you need
to do, the business isn't goingto move forward.
And so there's a lot at stake.
There's a lot to gain.
Being an entrepreneur is sowonderful, so fun, so
(26:28):
exhilarating, but there's a lotat stake.
And so you have to find ways toget really good at doing things
that don't have a particulardate and time that no one else
knows about.
No one else is gonna care if ithappens, but you have to find
ways to keep yourselfaccountable, otherwise your
business is gonna tank.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
And my husband always says it's not gonna run
itself.
Yeah.
He says that we heard that onbig bank theory and he uses it
all the time.
Yeah.
Now, when you're now you'reworking with, I know you work
with just like adults, but Iwant to talk more about women.
And so women, because we arecreatures of habit, like we were
talking about, um, when womenwant to like reinvent
(27:09):
themselves, uh, how do you seehabits playing a role in that,
especially like later in life?
Because as like I was sayingabout my mom earlier, right?
Yeah.
Like as we get older, right, weget more um I guess stuck in our
way is a bet the best way ofsaying it.
Cause I think it's more thatbecause if we want to change, we
(27:30):
can.
But how do you handle that?
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
Well, I think that's just it.
That's the kind of funnyparadox, is that the getting
stuck in our ways can besomething that works against us,
or it can be the very thing thatworks to our advantage.
So anything that's a habit isgoing to be easier to do because
you don't have to think aboutit.
You know, when it's automatic,when it's a habit, you don't get
into the whole thought process.
(27:54):
Do I feel like it?
Is this the right thing to do?
Do I want to do it?
Do that, should I do this rightnow?
It's just what you do.
So you short circuit all ofthose thoughts that could
potentially derail you.
So that can be great.
So let's say, you know, later inlife, it's still really
important, or as we get older,it's really important to have a
daily movement habit becausethat's going to be really
important for our health.
(28:16):
So um, so if that's just whatyou do.
So my mom, for example, is areally uh great role model for
this.
So ever since I can remember,she will tell me that this
started early in her 40s, but inmy mind, it's ever since I can
remember.
She, that woman, has walkedoutside every single morning,
rain or shine, snow, sleet,hail, ice, she really doesn't
(28:39):
care.
She's got all the gear, um, allthe various jackets and layers
and whatever.
And that is for her sanity.
That is what makes her feelgood.
So she is out there, she doesn'tdebate, do I feel like going out
there today?
Is the weather good enough?
It is just what she does.
And so I think that can be sobeneficial as we're trying to
(29:00):
lock in habits that are going tobe good for us, make it
automatic so automatic that youdon't ever debate it and it just
happens on its own.
Obviously, it's a little harderif you're trying to do something
differently.
So let's say you say like you'retrying to change, um, I don't
know, what would be something awoman might be trying to change
later in life?
(29:21):
Um let's say you're trying tosocialize more, like you're
trying to expand your socialnetwork.
Yeah.
So in the beginning, that'sgonna feel hard.
You're gonna have to think,well, okay, what are my options?
You know, what's out there?
Where do I want to begin?
So I would start by doing somebrainstorming sessions to um to
(29:43):
think about, you know, how doyou want to pursue this goal?
And then how can you break thatdown into daily or weekly action
items?
And so let's say you found thatthere was a group that played um
uh, I don't know, some sort ofcards or mahjong or whatever it
is, and they, you know, and theyPlay on Fridays, and you
thought, well, that would begood.
Like it's a good excuse to gettogether with people, and then
(30:04):
that will build in thesocialization that I'm that I
know is important for me.
So you commit to going onFridays.
So you put it in your calendar,you time block, and it probably
is going to take some effort inthe beginning.
You probably feel a littleuncomfortable.
You don't know these people,maybe you don't know how to
play.
So you have to really pushyourself to say, nope, you can't
debate.
Are you going your this is whatyou said you were going to do,
(30:26):
so you're going to do it.
But if you, and I would alsorecommend working in some
accountability partners ifthat's something that's hard for
you, maybe you find a friend andtogether you commit to going
every Friday.
I would bet a whole lot of moneythat if you do that for, let's
say, 12 weeks in a row, by thetime you're done with those 12
weeks, it's going to be bakedin.
(30:47):
Oh, it's Friday morning.
I go to play Mahjong with myfriend Susie.
That's just what I do.
I don't even think about it.
So it's effort for a period oftime until it's not, and then
it's just what you do.
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
I love that.
You know, and it's it it that'svery true, right?
Like I wouldn't go by myselfunless it's something I already
know I want to do, right?
Yeah.
Now, if I'm like I think it'seasier, you know, let's, you
know, you call a friend, right?
And there's there doesn't haveto be a full commitment.
Like you you could say to yourfriend, like, join me, come for
(31:19):
two or three times.
If we like it, we continue.
And if we don't like it, wedon't.
And if I like it and you don't,you know, there's no
obligations.
You don't have to stay, or viceversa.
I don't have to stay if you wantto stay, like, let's just try it
for three weeks.
We have to give it a certainamount of time, right?
You got to practice, right?
And my husband and I actuallydid that with Bridge, right?
(31:40):
Oh, we wanted we we did it withthe purpose of learning the
game, but we also thought itwould be, you know, more social
activity for us, right?
And because we don't have a lotof, you know, like we know a lot
of people, but we don't reallyhang out with a lot of people.
And so we were like, well, let'stry it.
Well, by the end of the nineweeks, I was like, I can't stand
the game.
(32:01):
I'm like, I don't want to playthe game.
I like the people I want, butnobody, everybody was just
playing the game.
There was no social interaction.
And I'm like, I'm done, I'm out.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
It's gonna happen.
So I would call that a reallysolid experiment.
You gave it some time and youfound I don't like bridge.
So okay, so moving on.
That's not gonna be your outletfor socialization.
Exactly, exactly.
Another experiment.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
And you need to be, and I think when you create that
kind of commitment or promise toyourself, you have to be open to
both sides.
I might like it, I might hateit.
Like you have to be prepared,right?
Because if you go in, I mean,unless you really know that
you're gonna like it, you justneed the opportunity to go,
that's different.
But if you don't know whatyou're getting into, right,
(32:42):
don't fully commit.
Just, you know, give yourselfthat part-time commitment where
okay, I'll do it for a littlewhile and then we'll see where
it goes, right?
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
Okay, so when um what whatadvice would you give to women
uh who are feeling stuck intheir old patterns, but they
know they want to createsomething new?
(33:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:03):
Are you thinking business-wise or personal?
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Um, I think just in in in the whole reinvention
theme, you know, like couldbecause I mean we're not all
creating businesses, right?
But some of us want to changeour lives in some way.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:15):
Well, you know, I think the term reinvention um
can feel a little daunting.
Like if I said to you, you know,Tina, I think you need to
reinvent yourself.
You would probably want to throwup and say, like, that's just
really big.
And I can't do that.
That's you know, that's just toooverwhelming.
So I would definitely say um, Iwould want to turn label that as
(33:38):
something that's gonna feel moredoable.
Like, I'd like to make somechanges in my in my life.
I'd like to build some betterhealth habits, or I'd like to do
a better job of keeping my houseclean, or I'd like to socialize
more.
So I would I would think aboutsort of a subheader of what the
goal is.
I I can kind of see using theterm reinvention more in the
rear view mirror.
(33:59):
Like, like when you said that tome, like, you know, in 2020, I
didn't sit down and say, Carol,you need to reinvent your
business.
It was just sort of, I just tookone step in a new direction, and
then I took another, and then Itook another.
Now in the rear rear viewmirror, I can say, I reinvented
my career, but you don'tnecessarily know that that's
(34:21):
happening in the moment.
So, anyway, so I would say breakit down into a subheading of a
change that you want to make,and then I would spend some time
brainstorming what is that gonnalook like?
What are the the actions, daily,weekly, monthly actions that I
need to take that over time willget me there.
And then what do I have to havein place in order to make those
(34:42):
happen consistently?
And really try to get astangible, as concrete, as
manageable as possible, smallsteps, manageable as possible,
and just start doing them oneafter another after another.
And over time, you will findthat you're creating the habits,
and then over time you will findthat you're reinventing.
But I think that's a dauntingtask to put in front of someone.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
I yeah, now that we say it like that, I have to
agree.
And I also think as you weresaying that, you won't even
notice the changes that you'remaking.
Like you'll notice that, oh wow,look at that.
I'm, you know, exercising everyday and I've never done that in
all my life, right?
But all the other changes thatcome along with it, you won't
even notice or feel, right?
Because they happen sonaturally.
(35:27):
The people around you will belike, what is wrong with you?
Or what have you done?
You know, like you look happyagain, or you, you know, you're
you you have lots of energy.
You and you won't even look atit until somebody says that to
you.
And then you're you'll be like,Oh yeah, it's almost like I've
created a new me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, totally.
(35:47):
Yeah, I like that.
And I mean, some of us know,like some of us know, like I
hear my daughter, she's only 24,mind you, but you know, she'll
lots of times she'll be liketalking about what she wants to
change in her life to make lifebetter.
And so, you know, we do go intolike a reinvention project
knowing that's what we're doing.
But I think, you know, I look ather, and at 24, you don't know
(36:09):
what that looks like, right?
You don't know.
Every day you're reinventingyourself.
Yeah.
Right.
And and I mean, at the sametime, like I want to look at her
and I say, you know what?
You have to love yourself forwho you are.
You know, someone else, likeeveryone else has to learn how
to love you for who you are, butthey can't do that until you can
accept yourself, right?
So reinvention has so manydifferent levels to it, right?
(36:32):
And I mean, we can't change whowe are.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
Yeah.
Right.
And you make me think of um, somy son is 19.
He just he's about to start hissophomore year at college, and
his senior year in high school,our school has this program,
it's a senior project.
So instead of going to schoolfor the last six weeks or
something, you can do aninternship.
So he did an internship at awealth management company.
He knew nothing about it, but hehad to get dressed up, you know,
(36:58):
head to toe, and act reallymature and deal with these
adults in a, you know, abusiness that had a lot of
responsibility, a lot of risk.
It was really important.
Well, that kid changed so muchin those six weeks by this one
internship.
He emerged a totally differentperson.
(37:19):
But if we had and if we had saidto him, you know, I think you
need to reinvent yourself to getyourself ready for a career,
like that wouldn't have landedanywhere.
And I it would have been reallyhard to think about the steps.
But just by making this onedecision, and he could have
chosen not to do the seniorproject.
He almost didn't, but he madethe decision to do it.
He happened to land at thiscompany, they treated him so
(37:41):
well, and he just emerged,reinvented.
So you just you just don'trealize, like you said, you
don't know it's happening untilall of a sudden it it happens.
Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
And I mean, like I said, I mean, we know that, you
know, some of us know that wehave to make changes.
Some people can say, I'm happywith the way my life is, right?
So not everybody needs changes,but there's always something,
right?
There's always something thatyou can look at and say, you
know, let's change this.
Yeah.
So um when we look forward, uh,what do you see uh the next
(38:13):
reinvention for yourself?
Like, do you do you see any kindof change coming ahead for you?
SPEAKER_02 (38:20):
Well, funny you should say that.
Yeah.
So I'm sort of moving into theworld of empty nesting.
So I have one son in college, Ihave one still at home, but he's
about to get his license andhe's out a lot.
And so it's a very new phase forme and for my husband and for my
family, where I now have a lotmore time on my hands, a lot
more freedom.
And it's really strange.
(38:42):
I didn't think it would be, Idon't want to say hard, but just
significant.
I didn't realize that thistransition in life would be so
significant.
And it's been a lot of wonderfulthings.
I mean, it's a little sad thatwhat was for so many years is no
longer, but it's also been greatto watch my kids become more
independent and to do greatthings with their life and then
(39:04):
to get some time back and um anddo more things.
So I'm a really big tennisplayer, and when they were
little, I played, I managed tohang on for to play tennis one
day a week.
That was about all I could dofor about 12 years.
And then as my kids got a littleolder, I decided I really want
to get better.
And if you want to get better,you have to play more.
(39:26):
So I went from playing one day aweek to playing four or five
days a week.
And now tennis runs my life.
My business runs my life, buttennis also runs my life.
I live for it.
And so I'm really excited tomove more into that world.
We are now playing on teams andcompeting and um putting myself
(39:47):
in situations I never dreamed Iwould have been in.
Um, captaining teams.
Like this was never part of thelife plan.
But you know, you make, like Isaid, you make one decision and
then another and then another,and then next thing you know,
here you are.
So I'm really excited for thatpart of my life to continue to
kind of grow and expand andprovide a lot of fun.
(40:08):
And I'm really excited for mybusiness.
So another thing that'shappening is my husband and I
are partnering together.
So he is in the business world,he is a leadership development
consultant.
He's been um a consultant on hisown for many years, and there's
a lot of overlap with what wedo.
So I always say, sort of where Iend off as a psychologist, he
(40:29):
picks up as a leadershipdevelopment consultant.
And so we are we've created someprograms and we are launching
them and working with differentclients.
So we've talked about doing thisfor years and never did, and
it's been really fun so far.
So I'm really excited for thetwo of us to see what we create
together over the next couple ofyears.
SPEAKER_01 (40:51):
I love that.
That's awesome.
And you know, um, you know, thewhole like empty nesting part.
I mean, that's that's a like asection of life, right?
I mean, we all have to gothrough that at some point.
And, you know, it's it's sogreat to see our kids as adults
in the world.
Yes.
Right.
It's it's kind of hard, like yousaid.
Like it's, you know, it's not aseasy as you think until it's
(41:14):
happening, right?
Like, and the older they get,the easier it gets, believe me.
I have a 24-year-old that'sleaving, you know, he's moving
out kind of at the he's beenmoving out since the end of
June.
Like it's been ongoing, right?
But I'm at the point now whereI'm like, are you going?
Because I want your space,right?
Like I want your room back, Iwant, I want my house back.
(41:35):
You know, it's but it isstrange.
It's a it's a weird feeling,right?
You know, like your liferevolves around them for so
long, and then all of a suddenit's like uh you're free.
Now what?
SPEAKER_02 (41:46):
Yeah, I know really bizarre.
SPEAKER_01 (41:48):
Yeah, yeah, I totally get that.
Now, I think you had um you youwe were talking about courses
and workshops and stuff.
Do you have anything that youwould like to mention to our
listeners?
SPEAKER_02 (42:01):
Yes.
So um I can't remember if I saidthis to you before we recorded
or not, but I just completed abig redesign of my website.
So everything that I have tooffer is now in one place on my
website, Carol Perlman.com.
And a great place to start iswith a free guide that I have
there.
It's called Morning Momentum,and it's a guide to help you
(42:25):
create a morning routine thatwill set you up for success for
the whole day.
So it helps you get your bodyand your mind into a positive
place, helps you to get focused,feel awake and ready to go and
ready to really thrive in yourday.
So I walk you through the wholestep, the whole process, and
that's for free.
So you'll find it on the websiteunder online courses.
(42:49):
And it's a great place to startto just kind of work on some new
habits.
Sleep is really critical.
Everything kind of trickletrickles down from our sleep
routines.
So that's a great place tostart.
And then I kind of have asuccession of programs.
Um, if you want to dive intodeeper and deeper work, so there
(43:10):
I have a seven-day productivitymini course, and then I have my
signature 21-day program to umwork on all sorts of time
management and health habits,and then there's always
one-on-one coaching that I'mavailable for.
So it's all on the website, butthe the free program Morning
Momentum is a great place tostart.
SPEAKER_01 (43:29):
Awesome.
I love that.
I think I might actually lookinto that for myself because you
know I struggle with my morningroutine.
As much as I love it, it's astruggle, right?
Like I'm like some days I justdon't want to do it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Yeah, it's not easy.
Um, it's not easy.
I'm a recovering snooze to thelast minute person, believe it
or not.
So I get it.
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Yep, yeah, I get it.
And then now I've even shut mysnooze off.
I just shut it off, like I shutthe alarm off, and then I'm
like, oh my god, it's time toget up.
Yeah, now you really have to.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today.
This has been awesome.
I love learning about how thebrain works and talking about
habits and all the things.
(44:09):
So this was really awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (44:11):
Thank you so much, Tina, for having me today.
This was so much fun.
I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (44:16):
Thank you so much for listening to Confidence in
Bloom, where we celebrate theamazing, brilliant, and
beautiful woman you already are.
This season of Shift is yourinvitation to rise, reinvent,
and reconnect with the womanyou're becoming.
You don't need to look like amovie star or a supermodel.
Spoiler alert, they don't evenlook like that.
You are already enough, worthyof love, success, and a life
(44:38):
that feels as good as it looks.
We give so much love to everyoneelse.
It's time to pour some of thatlove back into you.
If you're ready to reclaim yourconfidence and step into your
next chapter, I'm offeringpersonalized coaching, three
focus sessions to help you buildunshakable confidence, define
your personal brand, and createa signature style that reflects
(44:59):
who you truly are.
Because she comes in every shapeand size, and reinvention has no
expiration date.
Want to be a guest here onConfidence in Bloom?
Let's connect.
Find me on Instagram atInfobloom Styling, email Tina at
Infobloomstyling.com, or visitthe Divas That Care Network
website.
And until next time, keepblooming, boldly and
(45:21):
confidently.
SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
Thanks for listening.
This show was brought to you byDivas That Care.
Connect with us on Facebook, onInstagram, and of course on
divas that care.com, where youcan subscribe to our newsletter
so you don't miss a thing.
It's Divas the Care Radio.
Stories, strategies, and ideasto inspire positive change.
Welcome to Divas That Care, anetwork of women committed to
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This is a global movement forwomen, by women engaged in a
collaborative effort to create abetter world for future
generations.
(00:20):
To find out more about themovement, visit divas that
care.com after the show.
Right now, though, stay tunedfor another jolt of inspiration.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Welcome to Confidence in Bloom, where bold
women rise, shine, and own theirpower.
We all face that pesky innercritic, what I call the itty
bitty shitty committee,whispering self-sabotaging
doubts and untrue trash talkthat hold us back.
But here, we don't let thatnoise win.
This season, we're celebratingthe season of shift, women on
the edge of reinvention.
(00:53):
It's for every woman standing atthe crossroads, ready to rewrite
her story, reignite her spark,and rise into the next version
of herself.
This is a space to honor thefierce, fabulous women who've
broken free from fear, crushedlimiting beliefs, and stepped
into their full, unstoppableselves.
Because let's be real, the mostpowerful thing any woman can
(01:15):
wear is her confidence.
I'm Tina Spolotini, your hostwith Adivas That Care Network,
bringing you real stories fromwomen who reclaimed their voice,
embraced their worth, and arelighting the way for all of us.
Are you ready to bloom into yournext chapter?
Let's dive in.
Today I'm chatting with Dr.
Carol Perlman, a licensedpsychologist and cognitive
(01:38):
behavioral therapy specialistwith over 25 years of experience
helping people break patternsand reach their goals.
She has worked at topinstitutions, including Harvard
Medical School and MassachusettsGeneral Hospital, and
co-authored a leading treatmentseries for adults with ADHD.
In 2014, she founded Healthy forLife, where she coaches
(02:01):
individuals and organizations onbuilding habits that boost
health, productivity, andwork-life balance.
She is also the host of theHealthy Habits for Life podcast.
So welcome, Carol.
(02:21):
Thank you so much for having metoday.
Of course, I'm so lookingforward to this.
Now, I want to start with youknow, you are a psychologist,
right?
Now you're also a cognitivebehavioral therapy specialist.
Is that not the same thing?
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
So it's a subdivision of a psychologist.
So there are many differentapproaches to therapy.
Cognitive behavioral therapy isone of many.
And it's a more modern approach.
It's been around since um maybethe early 60s.
And the idea is that we look atthe patterns playing out today
(03:00):
that connect the situationsyou're in with the thoughts
you're having, how your thoughtsimpact your feelings, how your
thoughts and feelings impactyour behaviors, and how all of
those go round and round tocreate your outcome today.
So sometimes we do go back andrevisit early childhood
experiences mostly to understandlike where did this thought
pattern come from, or where didyou learn, you know, this
(03:22):
behavioral pattern.
But the main focus is what'sgoing on today, and how do we
teach you skills for managingday-to-day situations
differently?
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Okay, I love that.
So, I mean, I'm fascinated withhow the brain works and how like
why people do what we do, likewhy do we do what we do, right?
I love that, that whole concept.
And, you know, I know some of itgoes back to, you know, before
we're seven years old, some ofit comes back to, you know, just
regular patterns that we'vecreated throughout our lives,
(03:53):
right?
And I'm always fascinated by, ohmy God, that is so cool.
I would have never thought,right?
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah.
unknown (03:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
But the good news is we can always create change,
even if something has an originfrom many, many years ago, we
can always create change.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
I love that.
You know, my mother has alwayssaid to me that, you know,
humans are creatures of habit,and I truly believe that.
But she's also said to me overthe years that when we get old,
you know, we get so deep intoour habits that we cannot
change.
And she said to me actually justa couple of weeks ago that I'm
old now, that'll never change,right?
And I remember sitting therethinking, but that can't be
(04:30):
possible, right?
Yeah.
I mean, obviously you have to bewilling to make the change,
right?
Because there are people intheir 80s and 90s that took a
coaching course with me.
Like they're still willing tochange themselves and help
others do their, you know,whatever change.
So I love that.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So when you um I mean, obviouslyyou had an accomplished career
(04:55):
in psychology, but what inspiredyou to change, like to make the
shift into like a health habitcoaching and your
entrepreneurship?
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Yeah.
So it's it's really a wild storyand it goes back to my origin.
So I began graduate school.
I was very young, I was maybe22, just out of college, and I
arrived at this program and Iwas interested in the connection
between carbohydrates and mood.
People were not talking about itback then.
This was really kind of obscure.
(05:25):
I don't know why.
I just kind of had this inkling,but there was a powerful
connection, and I wanted tostudy it.
And so I did all sorts ofintricate studies on people's
nutrition patterns, their sleeppatterns, exercise, substance
use, and how that connected towell-being and depression.
And it was really fascinating,and I absolutely loved it.
(05:46):
Again, nobody was talking aboutthis.
Very few people were talkingabout this at the time.
But, you know, then over theyears, I graduated and I, you
know, took my first couple ofjobs in big academic medical
settings, and I got pulled intomore traditional work of a
psychologist helping people withthings like anxiety and
depression and trauma.
And um, one of my areas ofexpertise became helping adults
(06:08):
with ADHD.
So I did a lot of work with agroup of colleagues.
We were asked to develop aprogram for adults because back
then, this was over 20 years agonow, there really wasn't much
out there.
Fortunately, it's very differentnow.
But at the time, there reallywasn't much out there.
There were medications, but wewere looking at people who were
still struggling, even thoughthey were on what we would
(06:29):
consider to be adequatemedication, but they were still
having problems.
So, how could we help them learnskills above and beyond what the
medications were going to do?
So I was basically doing all ofthat work for many years.
I had I've had a privatepractice for 20 years, but about
10 years ago, you know, thislittle whisper was just calling
to me, and I really wanted toget back into the sphere of
(06:50):
wellness.
And so I started promotinghealth coaching, and I wanted to
use all these skills that I nowhad for behavioral change.
How do you help people changetheir thoughts, change their
emotions, change theirbehaviors?
I wanted to apply it to healthhabits because I saw what was
happening was that doctors wouldmake recommendations and say,
(07:11):
oh, you have cardiovasculardisease, I want you to modify
your diet in this way.
Oh, you have diabetes, I wantyou to make these changes.
But the doctors didn't know howto help people actually do that
day in and day out, nor did theyhave the time to do that.
And I just saw there was such anopportunity for me to use my
skills and help people in thisway.
(07:31):
And I wanted to roll up mysleeves and get into the
nitty-gritty, what's going onday in and day out that makes it
hard to regulate your foodintake.
And how can I make that feelmore doable for people and help
them create the health habits soit's just automatic.
So it became a gradual shift.
I was doing that in my privatepractice.
I worked with a another healthand wellness uh company
(07:55):
distributing their products andalso coaching people to use the
tools for at-home workouts.
And um and then in 2020, I uhlet's see, I realized so this
was just the start of COVID, andI was actually a friend of mine
actually helped asked me to helpher.
She had undiagnosed ADHD and shesaid to me, You're so
(08:18):
productive.
You know, you tell me you'regonna do this one day and then
you do it.
How do you make that happen?
Can you help me?
And so we got to talking and wesaid, Well, if I'm gonna help
you, I might as well help lotsof people at the same time
because there's so many people,you know, in that boat.
And so I basically adapted theprogram that we had created for
ADHD into a program that wasrelevant for the general
(08:39):
population, a time managementprogram to help people with um
productivity, procrastination,basically how do you get your
stuff done in less time so thatyou can free up more time to
guilt-free, relax, have fun,spend time with your family, do
the things that you love, andoverall create a better
work-life balance.
(09:00):
And so that was really the bigpivotal moment for me was in
2020 when I started doing thatand decided to focus um
exclusively on teaching groupprograms going into companies
and teaching their teams how towork more efficiently, create
better work-life balance,decrease burnout, which was
becoming such a big thingthroughout COVID and and beyond.
(09:22):
Um, so I still maintain aprivate practice on the side.
I still love um being atherapist and helping people
one-on-one.
So I'm doing both these days.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Well, I love that.
I mean, I mean, I'll be honest,the whole, you know, habit
change, we all need, we all needto like grasp it, right?
And and now not everybody has tomake major changes, but even
little changes.
We all have some kind of habitsthat we don't like about
ourselves, right?
And so it sounds like theprogram that you designed is,
(09:55):
you know, something that couldhelp pretty much anyone.
100%.
And so now you call it healthylike health habits that you're
changing.
And so, I mean, clearly it wasdirected at, you know, people
that were having health issueslike cardiovascular disease and
and diabetes, and I'm sure therewere others.
Um, what kind of I'm justcurious as to what kind of
(10:18):
habits does that include?
Is it like, you know, it's notsomething minor like time
blocking where you, you know,you put on your calendar and you
say, okay, from this time you'regoing to clean your bedroom.
And then, right?
Like, I mean, that's easy.
Don't get me wrong, that's supereasy.
And that's something that Iteach my clients as well.
But I don't know about anyoneelse, but I know myself.
(10:40):
Even if though it started withif it's on my calendar, I'll get
it done because then I know thatI only have so much time to do
it.
But I was a stay-at-home mom.
And when my all my kids were inschool, it was easy to say, oh,
I'll do it tomorrow, right?
I have time tomorrow, or I'll doit after lunch, right?
I'm gonna go for coffee and thenwhen I get back, I'll do it.
(11:01):
And I mean, if once I leave thehouse, forget it.
I'm not coming home to do stuff.
It's just not gonna happen,right?
I was like that in my 20s and30s, I'm still like that in my
50s.
So, how do you work, like how doyou walk people around like
through that?
Like, how do you help them, youknow, grasp the idea?
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
Here's the thing.
So you are already well versedin the idea of time blocking.
Many people are not.
So I would say the majority ofpeople that come through my
programs are accustomed tohaving certain things in their
calendar that they know theyhave a date and time.
Like you and I knew we weremeeting at a certain time, so
that's in the calendar.
Oh, I have a doctor'sappointment, I know that's
(11:39):
Wednesday at night.
So those are much easier to getto and make happen because we
know exactly when they're goingto happen.
But then there's everything elsethat I call the white space.
So it's all that unstructuredtime that's sort of over here in
one bucket.
And then over here are the isthe list of to-dos, which I hope
people have.
This is one of the things Iteach is to make sure they're
(12:00):
all in one place and they're notscattered, you know, stickies
here, text to myself there,voicemail to myself, a note
written on a stray piece ofmail, you know.
So that's one thing we have toclean up right away is we have
to streamline everything, get itall in one place.
But then we have the task ofmarrying that list of to-dos
with the white space.
So, how are you gonna get themall done?
(12:21):
Honestly, that's where peopleget jammed up because the list
gets really overwhelming.
They can't really figure out itall feels important, they feel
like it all should have beendone yesterday.
So, how do you pick out on agiven day what's the important
thing to do?
And then people get really stuckwith procrastination, they can't
decide, so then they spend allthis time scrolling social
media, watching Netflix, doingother things that really aren't
(12:44):
important.
So the very first thing we haveto do is establish a really
solid system with your calendar,your to-do list, and how you're
gonna integrate them, decide andfigure out what are the
priorities on a given day orweek, and then figure out when
exactly you're gonna get themdone.
So I like to teach the habit ofidentifying one day during the
(13:07):
week when you're going to set upyour plan for the whole week,
and you make that a lifelonghabit.
So for me, I like to do it onSunday.
Sometimes I do it on Saturdaybecause I just I want to make
sure that it's done, and thenI'm actually excited for the
week.
Like I don't feel overwhelmed, Ifeel totally in control because
I know exactly how what it'sgonna look like.
(13:27):
Obviously, things are gonna comeup, things are gonna change a
little bit, but the bulk of itis all mapped out.
So back to, you know, the healthhabits.
So when I think of healthhabits, it's really a very broad
label, you know.
So that's health habits, that'sproductivity, that's when are
you gonna take care of yourstuff and get it done, and then
when you're gonna take care ofyou, your body, have your meals,
(13:49):
exercise, do things for fun, dothings to relax, spend time with
your family.
So it's all of that.
And so what I find is that ifyou haven't time blocked it,
it's not gonna happen.
So if you say, Yeah, you know,I'd like to get in better shape
this year, you know, I think I Iwant to, you know, go to the gym
three times a week.
If it's if you leave it at that,I just want to get to the gym
(14:11):
three times a week, it's notgonna happen unless you know
more specifically exactly when.
Oh, it's gonna happen Monday,Wednesday, and Friday from four
to five.
Okay, now I know the plan.
Now there's still a task, a taskto do, which is to problem solve
the obstacles because there willstill be many.
You know, a kid asks you todrive them somewhere, or you
(14:32):
have a tech glitch that day, andnow you're on tech support all
day long and you didn't get theother thing done.
So things come up all the time.
You have to rework the schedule.
But when you have that solidframework in place, it makes it
so much more doable to just makethe small adjustments along the
way.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Yeah, I get that.
And then also, too, along withthat is you learn how to set
boundaries, right?
Like, you know, like, okay, Ihave to be at the gym, right, at
10 o'clock this morning.
And, you know, your son is like,well, mom, can we stop?
You know, can you bring me tothis place?
Yeah, I can, but I we eitherhave to leave the house at nine
(15:09):
o'clock, right?
So you're gonna have to get yourass out of bed, or you're gonna
have to go, you know, take thebus and I can pick you up on the
way back.
Like you, you know, you setboundaries that way because you
can't, I mean, I think once youstart letting yourself down,
right?
And I think most women are, youknow, can probably relate with
this.
You put myself aside, right?
(15:30):
Okay, I'll go to the gym, I'llgo to the gym after lunch,
right?
Because he needs me right now,right?
But we have to learn how to stopdoing that, right?
You know, like we're not sayingyou don't say no to your kid,
your kid still will always needyou, but you he has to learn how
to respect your boundaries aswell as you respecting your own
(15:51):
boundaries.
Yeah, I love that.
I really love that.
And that can be a podcast on itsown, this whole setting
boundaries, right?
Like, oh my gosh, there's somuch to say.
SPEAKER_02 (15:59):
It's so hard.
I mean, even though you and Icould sit here and say, yeah,
that's so important, it's stillreally hard.
And I actually I just cameacross, I don't know if it was a
blog post or a Facebook postthat I had written about this,
but this probably happened lastyear.
So my kids are 16 and 19.
They're not little anymore.
You know, they they know aboutdelayed gratification and, you
(16:21):
know, they have more cognitiveskills.
But I was on a Peloton ride inmy basement, and my son came
down and asked me for something.
And I actually said to him,Yeah, happy to do it, but in 20
minutes when I'm done with myride.
And I think that might have beenone of the few times that I had
done that.
That was so new in the past, Iprobably would have hopped off
(16:42):
and be like, yep, I guess I'mnot gonna finish my ride today,
and I'm gonna go help him dowhatever.
And it felt so hard anddifferent and amazing to say to
him, no, actually, we're gonnawait 20 minutes and then I'll do
that.
And life went on.
He was totally fine.
Yeah.
But what a concept, right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
Yeah.
And I know, like with my kids, Idid it with my heart.
I never like, you know, I neverdid anything out of obligation,
but I know there were timeswhere I, you know, I'd rather be
helping my kids than doingwhatever it was I was doing,
right?
And so then it was like, ah,I'll do it later.
My kid needs me.
But that's an excuse, right?
(17:20):
I mean, the truth is what theydemand of you, you there's
always time for it.
Yeah.
Right.
Unless, of course, they'vefallen and they've gotten hurt.
That's different.
But if they're just asking youto put yourself aside so you can
help them, that's that's whenthe boundaries need to come in.
But we want to talk aboutreinvention.
So when you when you reinventedyourself, I mean, I'm gonna
(17:40):
assume that that was it took abit of a reinvention when you
started creating these um likethe healthy habits uh workshops
that you created or programs, Iguess they would have been for
these adults.
When did you realize that youwere like reinventing your own
life?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
I know it's so wild because you don't necessarily
know that it's happening as itis happening.
And, you know, your career is astrue as life, but it's your
career just kind of evolves andyou never know how many zigs and
zags you're gonna take beforeyou get to the end of your
career.
And it just it's so entertainingto me.
(18:20):
I guess that's maybe the bestword, that you know, to think
about where my career is now andwhere it started, because these
platforms did not exist when Iwas in graduate school.
There was no social media andthere were no online courses,
there was no Kajabi, you know,there was no Google Classroom,
there was none of that.
And so this kind of work justsimply didn't exist.
(18:42):
You go to school to become apsychologist, you imagine you're
gonna have an office, people aregonna come in.
There was no Zoom, there was notelehealth, you know, it
literally didn't exist.
And so, you know, we have toevolve over time as technology
evolves and as the demands ofthe world evolve, we have to be
able to change with it andadapt.
And so some of that justhappened over time.
(19:04):
So we were doing a littletelehealth before COVID
happened, although there wereall sorts of issues with
insurance and it was, you know,sort of accepted, but sort of
not, you know, it definitelywasn't mainstream the way it is
now, but that was slowlyevolving.
And then the digital platformswere slowly evolving.
And some people, I don't know, Idon't know what kind of pulled
(19:27):
me into them because I'm surethere are plenty of people who
know they're out there, but theyjust didn't want to learn them.
But I just think little bylittle I just got exposed.
And, you know, we were talkingearlier about a friend of mine
who played such a big role in memaking this change, and she had
an online business, so shereally taught me a lot.
You know, she had all thesystems like how do you set up a
checkup cart, a checkout cartand um, you know, building a
(19:51):
website.
So she had already done it andshe taught me a lot.
She gave me the names of all ofthe platforms that she was
using.
So I basically did.
I didn't really do the research,I just used whatever she told me
to use.
And then over time, some of themI updated as I realized there
might have been different onesthat could do different things.
So I changed over the years, butum, it was really having sort of
an unofficial mentor who was afew steps ahead of me who paved
(20:16):
the way, made it feel moredoable for me, and we did it
together.
And it's always more fun to dothings together.
And I just found I reallyenjoyed it.
I love writing, I'm a reallycreative person, so I love you
know designing the websites anddesigning programs and Canva,
you know, going in and makingworkbooks for my clients.
So I've I was surprised to findthat I really loved all of use,
(20:38):
I loved using all of the otherskills in addition to the
behavioral change skills thatI've had for a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Well, and I think that's part of like enjoying the
change, right?
Like you're because you'relearning at the same time, like
when you're creating all thisstuff, your brain is like, whoa,
this is awesome.
What more can I do?
Right.
And then it really is.
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
And I think that's part of it.
Now, I mean, you know, I mean,better than you and I, like
(21:07):
you'll know this for sure.
Women are great at hesitatingwhen it comes to change, right?
Yeah.
Because I mean, let's face it,change is hard, right?
What what how do you workthrough that?
Like, how do you help them sortof deal with what could be
happening and what might happen?
Like, you know, like positiveand negative, right?
(21:28):
I mean, I'm sure you wentthrough it yourself.
You could probably bring thatinto your own, like your
clients' work.
How do you how do you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
So, you know, we talked about the premise of
cognitive behavioral therapy,which is learning more about
your thoughts and how impactfulyour thoughts are in everything.
So that's the always the firstplace my brain goes is when
you're feeling something, likeyou're feeling that hesitation.
I always want to know what areyou thinking?
And can we isolate thosethoughts?
Are you having thoughts of thisis going to be hard?
(21:58):
I'm going to fail, this isn'tgoing to work, I'm going to be a
disaster.
Someone else has already donethis.
Like all those thoughts canreally derail you.
And so we have to identify themand then we have to really check
them out, get a little distancefrom them, examine them, decide
are they helpful?
Do we really want to keep thesethoughts around, or do we want
to turn the volume down on thoseand turn the volume up on some
(22:20):
more helpful thoughts?
So that's place number one thatI go to is doing some work.
It's mindset work, really.
But the other thing I wanted tomake sure we talked about today,
which is so relevant with that,uh or relevant to that, is the
idea of accountability partners.
So, you know, I'm sure thisconcept has been around forever
and ever.
I personally really never heardof it until maybe eight or 10
(22:43):
years ago when I really got intothe coaching world and the world
of personal development.
But man, do I wish that I knewabout it sooner.
So, for people listening whoaren't familiar with this
concept, accountability partnersare people that you have an
agreement with that they'regoing to serve this role for
you, and you basically agreethat you're going to share your
(23:05):
stated goal with them, whatyou're working on, and what you
attend to do to help you get tothat goal.
And they expect a check-in, theyexpect some follow-up.
So you can negotiate what thatlooks like.
But it might be something liketoday, I'm going to, you know,
do that one-hour intro video onthis new platform.
(23:26):
And I'm going to um, you know,follow steps one through 10 that
they say we're going to do inthat first one hour video.
That may be something that'sbecause you don't really know
how to do it, it's out of yourcomfort zone.
So let's say you and I, youagreed to be my accountability
partner.
I would text you and I wouldsay, Tina, my plan today is I'm
going to do that one hourtraining and I'm going to text
(23:48):
you at the end of the day andtell you that I did it.
Well, now that it's out there,and now that I know that you
know, I'm going to be morelikely to do it because I
certainly don't want to text youat the end of the day and yeah,
I decided to watch Netflixinstead and I didn't get around
to it.
I'm going to feel like an idiotif I tell you that.
And so by preempt, I'mpreempting myself basically and
(24:09):
making that goal known to you.
And now that's going to ensurethat I'm held accountable to
this.
So I still use this all thetime, even though in general I'm
very productive and I'm reallydisciplined and focused.
I have my own challenges too,and I get in my own way all the
time.
So I use accountability partnersfor my workouts.
(24:30):
I use it for hard tasks that Iknow I don't want to do.
And it's really so valuable.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
I love that.
So my husband, I don't I don'tcall him an accountability
partner at any time, but it youmade me think that there's lots
of times where he'll be like,So, did you get done what you
said you were gonna get done?
And I'm I sit there beside himon the couch and I'm like, You
have to remember that now.
Like, why didn't you ask me thatat four o'clock when I still had
(24:59):
time to finish it?
Because now I'm I'm on thecouch, I'm parked, I am not
moving, and I'm not only part.
SPEAKER_02 (25:04):
So he's a self-appointed accountability
partner.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
And I do love that, and I thinkyou know, and I know that for
myself, that's why I startedputting things into the
calendar, like for timeblocking, because that was, you
know, as a stay-at-home mom, Ididn't feel like I needed an
accountability partner, as yousay.
That was I was being my ownaccountability partner.
It was like I need to get thisdone, right?
(25:28):
And then slowly when I startedto like it when it became a
habit, right?
Then I started to go, you knowwhat?
If I don't do it, I'm the onlyone who's gonna be hurt by it,
right?
And so now I do have anaccountability partner and I use
her mostly for work, but I'mlike, I I don't have like I
can't do that anymore, right?
(25:49):
Like I need to get I need to getthings done.
And I don't do like if I don'tdo it, I'm the one who's gonna
hurt because my business willhurt, right?
Yeah, and it I mean it takespractice, right?
It takes a lot of practice and alot of you know failures, right,
to get there, as you I'm sure.
SPEAKER_02 (26:07):
I mean, that's the thing about being self-employed,
being an entrepreneur, or evenhaving any kind of job where you
have a lot of autonomy.
If you don't find a way to makeyourself do the things you need
to do, the business isn't goingto move forward.
And so there's a lot at stake.
There's a lot to gain.
Being an entrepreneur is sowonderful, so fun, so
(26:28):
exhilarating, but there's a lotat stake.
And so you have to find ways toget really good at doing things
that don't have a particulardate and time that no one else
knows about.
No one else is gonna care if ithappens, but you have to find
ways to keep yourselfaccountable, otherwise your
business is gonna tank.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
And my husband always says it's not gonna run
itself.
Yeah.
He says that we heard that onbig bank theory and he uses it
all the time.
Yeah.
Now, when you're now you'reworking with, I know you work
with just like adults, but Iwant to talk more about women.
And so women, because we arecreatures of habit, like we were
talking about, um, when womenwant to like reinvent
(27:09):
themselves, uh, how do you seehabits playing a role in that,
especially like later in life?
Because as like I was sayingabout my mom earlier, right?
Yeah.
Like as we get older, right, weget more um I guess stuck in our
way is a bet the best way ofsaying it.
Cause I think it's more thatbecause if we want to change, we
(27:30):
can.
But how do you handle that?
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
Well, I think that's just it.
That's the kind of funnyparadox, is that the getting
stuck in our ways can besomething that works against us,
or it can be the very thing thatworks to our advantage.
So anything that's a habit isgoing to be easier to do because
you don't have to think aboutit.
You know, when it's automatic,when it's a habit, you don't get
into the whole thought process.
(27:54):
Do I feel like it?
Is this the right thing to do?
Do I want to do it?
Do that, should I do this rightnow?
It's just what you do.
So you short circuit all ofthose thoughts that could
potentially derail you.
So that can be great.
So let's say, you know, later inlife, it's still really
important, or as we get older,it's really important to have a
daily movement habit becausethat's going to be really
important for our health.
(28:16):
So um, so if that's just whatyou do.
So my mom, for example, is areally uh great role model for
this.
So ever since I can remember,she will tell me that this
started early in her 40s, but inmy mind, it's ever since I can
remember.
She, that woman, has walkedoutside every single morning,
rain or shine, snow, sleet,hail, ice, she really doesn't
(28:39):
care.
She's got all the gear, um, allthe various jackets and layers
and whatever.
And that is for her sanity.
That is what makes her feelgood.
So she is out there, she doesn'tdebate, do I feel like going out
there today?
Is the weather good enough?
It is just what she does.
And so I think that can be sobeneficial as we're trying to
(29:00):
lock in habits that are going tobe good for us, make it
automatic so automatic that youdon't ever debate it and it just
happens on its own.
Obviously, it's a little harderif you're trying to do something
differently.
So let's say you say like you'retrying to change, um, I don't
know, what would be something awoman might be trying to change
later in life?
(29:21):
Um let's say you're trying tosocialize more, like you're
trying to expand your socialnetwork.
Yeah.
So in the beginning, that'sgonna feel hard.
You're gonna have to think,well, okay, what are my options?
You know, what's out there?
Where do I want to begin?
So I would start by doing somebrainstorming sessions to um to
(29:43):
think about, you know, how doyou want to pursue this goal?
And then how can you break thatdown into daily or weekly action
items?
And so let's say you found thatthere was a group that played um
uh, I don't know, some sort ofcards or mahjong or whatever it
is, and they, you know, and theyPlay on Fridays, and you
thought, well, that would begood.
Like it's a good excuse to gettogether with people, and then
(30:04):
that will build in thesocialization that I'm that I
know is important for me.
So you commit to going onFridays.
So you put it in your calendar,you time block, and it probably
is going to take some effort inthe beginning.
You probably feel a littleuncomfortable.
You don't know these people,maybe you don't know how to
play.
So you have to really pushyourself to say, nope, you can't
debate.
Are you going your this is whatyou said you were going to do,
(30:26):
so you're going to do it.
But if you, and I would alsorecommend working in some
accountability partners ifthat's something that's hard for
you, maybe you find a friend andtogether you commit to going
every Friday.
I would bet a whole lot of moneythat if you do that for, let's
say, 12 weeks in a row, by thetime you're done with those 12
weeks, it's going to be bakedin.
(30:47):
Oh, it's Friday morning.
I go to play Mahjong with myfriend Susie.
That's just what I do.
I don't even think about it.
So it's effort for a period oftime until it's not, and then
it's just what you do.
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
I love that.
You know, and it's it it that'svery true, right?
Like I wouldn't go by myselfunless it's something I already
know I want to do, right?
Yeah.
Now, if I'm like I think it'seasier, you know, let's, you
know, you call a friend, right?
And there's there doesn't haveto be a full commitment.
Like you you could say to yourfriend, like, join me, come for
(31:19):
two or three times.
If we like it, we continue.
And if we don't like it, wedon't.
And if I like it and you don't,you know, there's no
obligations.
You don't have to stay, or viceversa.
I don't have to stay if you wantto stay, like, let's just try it
for three weeks.
We have to give it a certainamount of time, right?
You got to practice, right?
And my husband and I actuallydid that with Bridge, right?
(31:40):
Oh, we wanted we we did it withthe purpose of learning the
game, but we also thought itwould be, you know, more social
activity for us, right?
And because we don't have a lotof, you know, like we know a lot
of people, but we don't reallyhang out with a lot of people.
And so we were like, well, let'stry it.
Well, by the end of the nineweeks, I was like, I can't stand
the game.
(32:01):
I'm like, I don't want to playthe game.
I like the people I want, butnobody, everybody was just
playing the game.
There was no social interaction.
And I'm like, I'm done, I'm out.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
It's gonna happen.
So I would call that a reallysolid experiment.
You gave it some time and youfound I don't like bridge.
So okay, so moving on.
That's not gonna be your outletfor socialization.
Exactly, exactly.
Another experiment.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
And you need to be, and I think when you create that
kind of commitment or promise toyourself, you have to be open to
both sides.
I might like it, I might hateit.
Like you have to be prepared,right?
Because if you go in, I mean,unless you really know that
you're gonna like it, you justneed the opportunity to go,
that's different.
But if you don't know whatyou're getting into, right,
(32:42):
don't fully commit.
Just, you know, give yourselfthat part-time commitment where
okay, I'll do it for a littlewhile and then we'll see where
it goes, right?
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
Okay, so when um what whatadvice would you give to women
uh who are feeling stuck intheir old patterns, but they
know they want to createsomething new?
(33:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:03):
Are you thinking business-wise or personal?
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Um, I think just in in in the whole reinvention
theme, you know, like couldbecause I mean we're not all
creating businesses, right?
But some of us want to changeour lives in some way.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:15):
Well, you know, I think the term reinvention um
can feel a little daunting.
Like if I said to you, you know,Tina, I think you need to
reinvent yourself.
You would probably want to throwup and say, like, that's just
really big.
And I can't do that.
That's you know, that's just toooverwhelming.
So I would definitely say um, Iwould want to turn label that as
(33:38):
something that's gonna feel moredoable.
Like, I'd like to make somechanges in my in my life.
I'd like to build some betterhealth habits, or I'd like to do
a better job of keeping my houseclean, or I'd like to socialize
more.
So I would I would think aboutsort of a subheader of what the
goal is.
I I can kind of see using theterm reinvention more in the
rear view mirror.
(33:59):
Like, like when you said that tome, like, you know, in 2020, I
didn't sit down and say, Carol,you need to reinvent your
business.
It was just sort of, I just tookone step in a new direction, and
then I took another, and then Itook another.
Now in the rear rear viewmirror, I can say, I reinvented
my career, but you don'tnecessarily know that that's
(34:21):
happening in the moment.
So, anyway, so I would say breakit down into a subheading of a
change that you want to make,and then I would spend some time
brainstorming what is that gonnalook like?
What are the the actions, daily,weekly, monthly actions that I
need to take that over time willget me there.
And then what do I have to havein place in order to make those
(34:42):
happen consistently?
And really try to get astangible, as concrete, as
manageable as possible, smallsteps, manageable as possible,
and just start doing them oneafter another after another.
And over time, you will findthat you're creating the habits,
and then over time you will findthat you're reinventing.
But I think that's a dauntingtask to put in front of someone.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
I yeah, now that we say it like that, I have to
agree.
And I also think as you weresaying that, you won't even
notice the changes that you'remaking.
Like you'll notice that, oh wow,look at that.
I'm, you know, exercising everyday and I've never done that in
all my life, right?
But all the other changes thatcome along with it, you won't
even notice or feel, right?
Because they happen sonaturally.
(35:27):
The people around you will belike, what is wrong with you?
Or what have you done?
You know, like you look happyagain, or you, you know, you're
you you have lots of energy.
You and you won't even look atit until somebody says that to
you.
And then you're you'll be like,Oh yeah, it's almost like I've
created a new me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, totally.
(35:47):
Yeah, I like that.
And I mean, some of us know,like some of us know, like I
hear my daughter, she's only 24,mind you, but you know, she'll
lots of times she'll be liketalking about what she wants to
change in her life to make lifebetter.
And so, you know, we do go intolike a reinvention project
knowing that's what we're doing.
But I think, you know, I look ather, and at 24, you don't know
(36:09):
what that looks like, right?
You don't know.
Every day you're reinventingyourself.
Yeah.
Right.
And and I mean, at the sametime, like I want to look at her
and I say, you know what?
You have to love yourself forwho you are.
You know, someone else, likeeveryone else has to learn how
to love you for who you are, butthey can't do that until you can
accept yourself, right?
So reinvention has so manydifferent levels to it, right?
(36:32):
And I mean, we can't change whowe are.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
Yeah.
Right.
And you make me think of um, somy son is 19.
He just he's about to start hissophomore year at college, and
his senior year in high school,our school has this program,
it's a senior project.
So instead of going to schoolfor the last six weeks or
something, you can do aninternship.
So he did an internship at awealth management company.
He knew nothing about it, but hehad to get dressed up, you know,
(36:58):
head to toe, and act reallymature and deal with these
adults in a, you know, abusiness that had a lot of
responsibility, a lot of risk.
It was really important.
Well, that kid changed so muchin those six weeks by this one
internship.
He emerged a totally differentperson.
(37:19):
But if we had and if we had saidto him, you know, I think you
need to reinvent yourself to getyourself ready for a career,
like that wouldn't have landedanywhere.
And I it would have been reallyhard to think about the steps.
But just by making this onedecision, and he could have
chosen not to do the seniorproject.
He almost didn't, but he madethe decision to do it.
He happened to land at thiscompany, they treated him so
(37:41):
well, and he just emerged,reinvented.
So you just you just don'trealize, like you said, you
don't know it's happening untilall of a sudden it it happens.
Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
And I mean, like I said, I mean, we know that, you
know, some of us know that wehave to make changes.
Some people can say, I'm happywith the way my life is, right?
So not everybody needs changes,but there's always something,
right?
There's always something thatyou can look at and say, you
know, let's change this.
Yeah.
So um when we look forward, uh,what do you see uh the next
(38:13):
reinvention for yourself?
Like, do you do you see any kindof change coming ahead for you?
SPEAKER_02 (38:20):
Well, funny you should say that.
Yeah.
So I'm sort of moving into theworld of empty nesting.
So I have one son in college, Ihave one still at home, but he's
about to get his license andhe's out a lot.
And so it's a very new phase forme and for my husband and for my
family, where I now have a lotmore time on my hands, a lot
more freedom.
And it's really strange.
(38:42):
I didn't think it would be, Idon't want to say hard, but just
significant.
I didn't realize that thistransition in life would be so
significant.
And it's been a lot of wonderfulthings.
I mean, it's a little sad thatwhat was for so many years is no
longer, but it's also been greatto watch my kids become more
independent and to do greatthings with their life and then
(39:04):
to get some time back and um anddo more things.
So I'm a really big tennisplayer, and when they were
little, I played, I managed tohang on for to play tennis one
day a week.
That was about all I could dofor about 12 years.
And then as my kids got a littleolder, I decided I really want
to get better.
And if you want to get better,you have to play more.
(39:26):
So I went from playing one day aweek to playing four or five
days a week.
And now tennis runs my life.
My business runs my life, buttennis also runs my life.
I live for it.
And so I'm really excited tomove more into that world.
We are now playing on teams andcompeting and um putting myself
(39:47):
in situations I never dreamed Iwould have been in.
Um, captaining teams.
Like this was never part of thelife plan.
But you know, you make, like Isaid, you make one decision and
then another and then another,and then next thing you know,
here you are.
So I'm really excited for thatpart of my life to continue to
kind of grow and expand andprovide a lot of fun.
(40:08):
And I'm really excited for mybusiness.
So another thing that'shappening is my husband and I
are partnering together.
So he is in the business world,he is a leadership development
consultant.
He's been um a consultant on hisown for many years, and there's
a lot of overlap with what wedo.
So I always say, sort of where Iend off as a psychologist, he
(40:29):
picks up as a leadershipdevelopment consultant.
And so we are we've created someprograms and we are launching
them and working with differentclients.
So we've talked about doing thisfor years and never did, and
it's been really fun so far.
So I'm really excited for thetwo of us to see what we create
together over the next couple ofyears.
SPEAKER_01 (40:51):
I love that.
That's awesome.
And you know, um, you know, thewhole like empty nesting part.
I mean, that's that's a like asection of life, right?
I mean, we all have to gothrough that at some point.
And, you know, it's it's sogreat to see our kids as adults
in the world.
Yes.
Right.
It's it's kind of hard, like yousaid.
Like it's, you know, it's not aseasy as you think until it's
(41:14):
happening, right?
Like, and the older they get,the easier it gets, believe me.
I have a 24-year-old that'sleaving, you know, he's moving
out kind of at the he's beenmoving out since the end of
June.
Like it's been ongoing, right?
But I'm at the point now whereI'm like, are you going?
Because I want your space,right?
Like I want your room back, Iwant, I want my house back.
(41:35):
You know, it's but it isstrange.
It's a it's a weird feeling,right?
You know, like your liferevolves around them for so
long, and then all of a suddenit's like uh you're free.
Now what?
SPEAKER_02 (41:46):
Yeah, I know really bizarre.
SPEAKER_01 (41:48):
Yeah, yeah, I totally get that.
Now, I think you had um you youwe were talking about courses
and workshops and stuff.
Do you have anything that youwould like to mention to our
listeners?
SPEAKER_02 (42:01):
Yes.
So um I can't remember if I saidthis to you before we recorded
or not, but I just completed abig redesign of my website.
So everything that I have tooffer is now in one place on my
website, Carol Perlman.com.
And a great place to start iswith a free guide that I have
there.
It's called Morning Momentum,and it's a guide to help you
(42:25):
create a morning routine thatwill set you up for success for
the whole day.
So it helps you get your bodyand your mind into a positive
place, helps you to get focused,feel awake and ready to go and
ready to really thrive in yourday.
So I walk you through the wholestep, the whole process, and
that's for free.
So you'll find it on the websiteunder online courses.
(42:49):
And it's a great place to startto just kind of work on some new
habits.
Sleep is really critical.
Everything kind of trickletrickles down from our sleep
routines.
So that's a great place tostart.
And then I kind of have asuccession of programs.
Um, if you want to dive intodeeper and deeper work, so there
(43:10):
I have a seven-day productivitymini course, and then I have my
signature 21-day program to umwork on all sorts of time
management and health habits,and then there's always
one-on-one coaching that I'mavailable for.
So it's all on the website, butthe the free program Morning
Momentum is a great place tostart.
SPEAKER_01 (43:29):
Awesome.
I love that.
I think I might actually lookinto that for myself because you
know I struggle with my morningroutine.
As much as I love it, it's astruggle, right?
Like I'm like some days I justdon't want to do it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Yeah, it's not easy.
Um, it's not easy.
I'm a recovering snooze to thelast minute person, believe it
or not.
So I get it.
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Yep, yeah, I get it.
And then now I've even shut mysnooze off.
I just shut it off, like I shutthe alarm off, and then I'm
like, oh my god, it's time toget up.
Yeah, now you really have to.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today.
This has been awesome.
I love learning about how thebrain works and talking about
habits and all the things.
(44:09):
So this was really awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (44:11):
Thank you so much, Tina, for having me today.
This was so much fun.
I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (44:16):
Thank you so much for listening to Confidence in
Bloom, where we celebrate theamazing, brilliant, and
beautiful woman you already are.
This season of Shift is yourinvitation to rise, reinvent,
and reconnect with the womanyou're becoming.
You don't need to look like amovie star or a supermodel.
Spoiler alert, they don't evenlook like that.
You are already enough, worthyof love, success, and a life
(44:38):
that feels as good as it looks.
We give so much love to everyoneelse.
It's time to pour some of thatlove back into you.
If you're ready to reclaim yourconfidence and step into your
next chapter, I'm offeringpersonalized coaching, three
focus sessions to help you buildunshakable confidence, define
your personal brand, and createa signature style that reflects
(44:59):
who you truly are.
Because she comes in every shapeand size, and reinvention has no
expiration date.
Want to be a guest here onConfidence in Bloom?
Let's connect.
Find me on Instagram atInfobloom Styling, email Tina at
Infobloomstyling.com, or visitthe Divas That Care Network
website.
And until next time, keepblooming, boldly and
(45:21):
confidently.
SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
Thanks for listening.
This show was brought to you byDivas That Care.
Connect with us on Facebook, onInstagram, and of course on
divas that care.com, where youcan subscribe to our newsletter
so you don't miss a thing.
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