March 4, 2025 • 39 mins
Join the Dudes and Dads Podcast as they explore the Grace College experience. Hear from Dr. Wally Brath and Dr. Kevin Roberts about the distinctive opportunities for students, including the Worship Arts program that combines musical training with theological study. Learn about the Christian counseling program’s biblical foundation. Discover how Grace College integrates faith into...
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
On this episode of the dudes and dads podcast we're talking with our friends at Grace College
So welcome back it has been it feels like forever since we really it's been a hot minute Andy been a hot minute
(00:27):
And yet strangely enough we've been teleported back to the same table. Yeah
Previously with the same people to be fully honest. We are recording back-to-back, which we don't normally do how will we get through this?
It's like a mirror. It's like a podcast
Absolutely Andy well hey glad to have each and every one of you here for the dudes dead pop
Pop quiz and jumping the hunt already the dudes and dad's podcast. We do we do we end
(00:49):
Thanks for joining us
We're looking forward to the conversation at what we have lovingly entitled the grace college sessions
Yeah, yeah, I feel like it needs its own theme music. Yeah, and so and maybe it will get here
We go the grace college sessions
Yeah, that's that's that's where it's gonna go in where I'm excited to hear all the opera all the options that we've made available for
(01:14):
People to insert music right after that
But no what a thrill it is to be down here at what I what I haven't actually shared and well our guests will know
this
My wife is an alum an alumnus alumnus alum. It's not an alum not an alumna. What is there a female version?
What is the female version is there a female is it a gendered?
(01:35):
No one no no one at this table knows your wife went here long story short. She graduated from grace college
now
Gosh, let's see here. That would be 19 years ago. So it's been a it's been a spell
I was as we were driving over here. I was like all like very much like oh
I know how to get exactly where we're going and
Apparently enough time had passed by that. I did not exactly know how we were on the wrong side of campus
(02:00):
But nevertheless, we've we've made it here
To this recording session and recording the recording a podcast here number one
Because we well we were invited by our good friend Scott Allen to come and do here's an instructor here
We're so grateful for that number two his students are taking they're in a recording class here at Grace College
(02:20):
They are taking this content Andy this very content and doing a project and doing a project
submit it for their their recording class and
It's the level of pressure I feel
I've never sat behind a glass window. They're in the studio behind looking over there
They're looking over like typical like typical producers on the other side of the glass looking very nonchalant very comfortable
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Well, we are in here sweating away that you know the talent as they call us
But nevertheless, we're thrilled to be here at Grace College. It's really great opportunity for us to record
They're gonna they're gonna get some they're all gonna get a's from this project obviously
But we also get to talk to friends about about the college experience
Thinking about where if you've got a young person who's thinking about college in the future
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How how do you discern that how do you make that decisions and specifically on this episode? What is Grace College all about?
That's the that's the real question Andy
But first this episode is sponsored by everance federal credit union helping individuals and organizations
Integrate their faith and values with their banking needs learn more at everance comm slash banking credit union prior products are federally insured by
(03:31):
NCUA
Just for a small we'll call it a corporate sponsorship note Andy everance is also a
Advising partner here at Grace College ding ding ding winner winner chicken dinner
So thank you everance for your support and for helping our friends here at Grace College with whatever
Financial wizardry that you do here. So awesome. Okay, here we are. We're back in action
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We've got our we've got our guests with us again. We will
introduce them a
Semi appropriately with us. We have dr. Wally Brath, who is the head of worship arts here at Grace College and then dr
Kevin Roberts who serves as we're gonna find out this time what in the world a provost is you said that last time and it?
Never came out. So we're gonna find out
(04:17):
Right now on the spot tell us what does a provost do because you're also professor here you teach classes
You do all the the normal professor stuff, but then the distinction of Provost what what's going on?
So that means everything related to academics so that might be library all the all the different schools that we have
all reports to me and
(04:40):
Registrar everything that you think that touches academics. Are you so you're like an academic CEO? I
Wouldn't go that far but something along that line. I'm just gonna say it right now
Kevin is the academic CEO here at Grace College and
It may not be on his business card
But I think it's I think it's time it is so I've just made a completely unofficial and non-binding a proclamation about that
(05:05):
but thank you for explaining so it's a it's a big a very big umbrella of responsibility of leadership here and
And we get to talk with you since their thing when Scott set up this recording session
He could have gotten any any person on staff here, but he said no
I'm getting a provost and that's how I knew that this was going to be an episode unlike any other
(05:29):
Not to not to shoot too high. Okay, so friends. Thank you
So glad to have you guys back with us here for session two of the grace college
If you've not heard the first session go back and listen to that our guests kind of introduce themselves
And they talked about all the things that they do. Yeah, they've got they have families. They're into interesting stuff. There's family bands
(05:50):
there's travel there's
prescription drugs and
And the talking out of prescription drugs in the same family. It's a it's a real
Yeah, wow, you should listen how?
How awesome I just took all that out of context just to create some tension
That's what we like to do the drama of it. So friends and while else I'll start with you. First of all you as
(06:17):
Here in the worship arts program and overseeing this and and leading and I and I will say I mean
We're sitting in this recording studio right now
For for a College of Grace colleges size, you know, this is a smaller Christian College, holy Toledo
What a resource here like that's pretty amazing. So I'm sure you're thrilled to have to have those resources
(06:42):
What brought you here to Grace College? What was your journey here? Yeah
Well, I was a worship pastor for 25 or so years
and during that time always
looking to kind of raise up
you know the next generation of worship leaders and
There was an opportunity when we were in Minneapolis
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to teach
as an adjunct at Crown College and so did that for a few years and then
They they were looking for somebody to lead their worship arts program. So did that for a number of years?
And then Grace College. I had a high school friend that that lives in the area. He said hey Grace is thinking about
(07:24):
Starting a worship arts program you would be perfect for that
and I would really wasn't interested in the beginning just because
We were happy in Minneapolis
And as people in Minneapolis are I mean, you know, I mean my goodness
Despite the frigid air. It's one of the most active states and active cities in the United States if I understand correctly
(07:47):
Yeah, so people even in 14-degree weather they seem happy. That's true. Yeah, my brother lives there his family's there
So, you know, we were we were doing doing okay
So my friends like just just let me give them your your name and number just talk to them. And so
2016 January had a conversation
about about what they wanted to do here and you know through
(08:10):
Doing some church planting in Minneapolis and just kind of the entrepreneurial sort of aspect of ministry really
found that I enjoyed that that kind of you know, starting different things and developing things and
So yeah, I got to come here in 2016 and basically build build the program for the dream
Oh, it was amazing what I mean just a huge opportunity
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So kind of taking, you know my years of experience in the local church
My time at Crown College, you know with that program and and just trying to take the best of all that and try to build
Build the program. So would you have ever I don't hear you saying that you would have ever imagined that you would be a college professor
Is that was that something that ever was on your radar prior to this experience?
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No, I mean, you know, I did some adjunct work in in in the Twin Cities
I'm a pianist. So I even did some some like, you know
Teaching in the music side of things kind of throughout the years. But yeah, I mean probably when I was you know
Younger, I wouldn't have thought I would have been a college professor, but you never know you never know kids
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You never you never know Kevin. What about you your your story of coming to grace?
Yeah, I was working and doing a lot of clinical work and counseling and so that was really what I was busy doing
And I started teaching just part-time and I fell in love with it loved working with the students
So I started teaching when they asked me to accept the role in a in the graduate counseling program
(09:44):
So and now I've been here. It's my 21st year Wow
and you're
Provosting - I mean, let's not not to beat a dead horse. But wow, what a
What a what a course
I mean, when you guys and I sort of joke about this but you know, I
(10:05):
don't I think sometimes we have this sense of like oh like
What a professor is or the background that they come for or you know, I don't know
I don't know if you have any any Blazers with with patches on the the elbows. That's
No, no patches on elbows by the way here tonight just to be to be clear, but it all patch free
But I think we have this idea of you know, the college professors this sort of removed academic, you know
(10:31):
ivory tower sort of person
But I hear you guys saying really is that your your background comes really out of as a practitioner as someone really doing
the work first
and
Then moving into this place of kind of how you can share those experiences within an academic setting
training future leaders future practitioners all of that
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Would you have done it any other way does does it feel does it feel like that course
I mean, it's the course that you took does does it feel like that course is just the most
Natural for for both of you on Wally. Yeah. I mean, I think when I was younger
You know, I was feeling called to full-time ministry in the local church
So, I mean, I think this the course that God had has me on was just
(11:16):
You know just trying to be faithful to to kind of follow that call. So
And that's what I would I would tell students as well, you know, just I think you just have to be
Open to how how the Lord is is really calling you some, you know, honestly some students will come, you know
and and they think initially they're interested in worship arts and then and
We you know, we have a little bit of movement in terms of you know
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I need to change my major and we even have a thing, you know
After their first year we do like an interview with the students just to make sure it's a good fit
You know, like is this a good, you know path for you?
And if not, we send them to youth ministry or something
No, I was just kidding. That's a ministry joke folks. And though it's a stereotype
relatively accurate so
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Kevin how about you? I would say I wouldn't change the path
Yeah
I think working in the field was really and I probably had a biased
When I was Dean in behavioral sciences to trying to hire folks who had a lot of experiences
There's nothing wrong with just being a researcher
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But you know, we're trying to train students to go out there and impact the king for the kingdom
Yeah, and having people with that practical hands-on knowledge. It just it speaks to the students. I think at a different level
Then just a textbook. Yeah. Well and you have you have that life experience
You know what it actually is like to do what you're doing in that field as opposed to just having a textbook
(12:46):
Tell you it. So yeah, that's speaks volumes. It does you know, you're teaching a class and you know
I'm teaching a class on addictions in the fall and you know, I'm like look you don't read these four chapters, you know
There's nothing in there. That's actually useful
and
Yeah, it's not then and the rest of this content. Yeah, it's great. I mean the textbooks fine overall, but let's be honest
(13:09):
What's what's what do they need to do this job? Well, yeah, that's really that's really really helpful
and and again, I the student gains the clarity of
Because for any student especially at the undergraduate level
There's kind of you're getting this education and all the stuff
You don't know like the the world is kind of hopefully opening up before you and you're like wow
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There's a so much to be known and understood in here within this this discipline
and yet so when you can have someone that can kind of like
Narrow the road down for you a little bit and kind of say okay here here the places that you really
Really should be spending your time. Well, here's where the real focus should be
Because I just I remember just as a student sometimes
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It's like me and some professor would blow my mind with kind of the whole area of study in a particular area and it's like I
Could go down that rabbit hole and not touch any of the rest of this stuff
How am I gonna navigate all of this and then you know your brain kind of gets turning so?
Again to have to have someone with some professional experience who's been out there in the real world doing the thing and knows
Hey, these are the these are the places that you should really be spending your time. I that's
(14:16):
That is a huge gift. I would I would say
So in all of that
What do you guys enjoy most about your jobs? Like what do you love here at grace?
Like what is what's the thing that gets you up in the morning to come and do this? I
Mean I love just the energy of being with the students and just being able to
(14:41):
interact with them
Honestly, I think when you teach a discipline you're you're kind of a lifelong learner as well. So I really appreciate that
I feel like I'm always kind of learning something
In in the context of a classroom or just you know discussions
Also just there's there's kind of a practical aspect to worship ours
(15:04):
we were just we actually just released another single so we have a
students that love to write worship songs and write songs and
So just kind of that hands-on, you know that that really
Because at heart I'm still kind of that worship pastor. Yeah, you know and and so being able to
Kind of do some of that practical hands-on things with students is really it's just really great. Yeah
(15:30):
Yeah, I honestly would say the students for me as well. I only get to teach two courses a year
But I have to tell you I get to the spring semester. I'm not teaching I'm looking at budget reports
And I'm right next to our so energizing right next to our CFO and I'm miserable right looking at those things and
marginal revenue analysis reports do not excite me and
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But
The students, I mean, I honestly live for the two courses that I I do
Well, and it sounds like you both are doing things and teaching things that you love to do previous before teaching
And so it's cool to see
How you're able to impact the students and essentially like sending people out to do what you love to do, right?
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While in leading worship parts here. I mean, what would you say? What are the grace College?
Distinctives for your worship arts program. Like what? What do you feel? You know a student that goes through the program here
Really walks out with the kind of the practical tools, but also kind of the formational tools
Like what are what's the what's the thing that if you're talking to if you're talking to parents?
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Which we are right now talking to parents about with a young person that might be considering this like what's
What's the real thing that you say man?
We stand on these things because we really think we do a good job of them. We're really focused on them
Yeah, I mean I think just in general I think we we do a good job with
The the the theology part of worship and then also that kind of bringing together with the practical things so students
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You know, they have to have to study a specific instrument. So voice piano guitar percussion
They they take lessons on that instrument they're in ensembles they do four semesters of music theory
Those kinds of things so kind of learning the language of music
But then on the other side
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there's the theology of worship where they do biblical theology of worship and history of Christian worship and
Take courses in Old Testament New Testament
But I think you know as a kind of a you know, good evangelical, you know
We we love to really you know, the Word of God is kind of central I think to to our
History and and honestly is you know as I visit churches and I was just visiting a church
(17:47):
not too long ago where
It wasn't until maybe like 40 minutes into the service, you know
It's like an hour service like halfway into the sermon where there was any
Scripture being read in the service at all. And so I'm thinking to myself, you know, we you know as evangelicals
We we say that we're you know, we're we stand on the Word of God
(18:08):
We're you know Bible saturated and yet in our practice of worship. There's very little
Bible being read and even during the sermon you get little snippets of it
But you never necessarily get you know
Sometimes you don't get it read in its full context before the sermon like that's kind of a little bit more of a historical practice
so I think about the two places in the New Testament where Paul talks about musical worship both in Colossians and Ephesians and
(18:34):
He says in Colossians 3 16 let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly
And he says teaching and admonishing one another with Psalms hymns and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And so
You know when was the last time you sang a psalm, you know in church, right?
But but that's I mean that's like a and and and our music it teaches and even it admonishes us, you know
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So and how do we how do we get the Word of Christ to dwell in us richly?
Well, we've got it. We've got to be exposed to it, right and it's not just in your own personal quiet time
You know at home, but we need we need it in worship in public worship
We need to hear the Word of God written
So historically there would be a lectionary where would there be a systematic way to read the Word of God in public worship?
(19:19):
Yeah, we just don't do that anymore
Yeah, and so we so in our classes we tried to I try to this is not the only way obviously to plan a worship
Service, but we try to use the Word of God
To structure the liturgy. Yeah, and actually use the Word of God as the basis
so instead of just saying well, I'm just gonna pick these songs and kind of have five songs a sermon and
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And and then you know benediction or whatever
We we use the Word of God to structure the service and so the the Word of you know
God reveals himself through his word and then we respond to him
In worship and so yeah, I think that's a distinctive. I love it. I think of
Years ago reading NT Wright who said talked about evangelicals being absolutely in love with spontaneity
(20:03):
The the the idol of the idol of spontaneity and if it if it's not spontaneous
How can it be spirit-led and you know these these sort of things and I don't know if it's just me getting older
But and just more crotchety
I don't know but it's like when there is a structure of something cuz I by the way, I think every church has a liturgy
Either either it's a no liturgy
(20:25):
So it's by what they don't do that they that they form this or by or by some other intention
But most of us can walk into many of our evangelical churches and we like, okay. I know the gig right?
I know there's gonna be opening song. There's gonna be announcement. There's gonna be that
Whatever, you know, that's kind of how we how we go about it. There is structure there
And I really just hear you saying like here in particular how the level of intention to that though
(20:46):
Like just taking a moment and saying this is this is a formational opportunity and if we steward it well
Looking looking to the word first
You know, we we serve people well in that way. I I I'm sure I could really get you going
I mean cuz what I hear you saying is that?
Worship is not for entertainment
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as the also as a side note and
You know, I think man, I just another pastor friend of mine. I just had this conversation their day of
long long ago
When I was at a conference and listen to a pastor talk about
about preachers
Wandering through the deep dark woods of it seems to me
(21:30):
and and to this point of
I'm gonna do it a spiritual TED talk and we're gonna we're gonna throw a scripture in there
We're gonna baptize the service with you know with that. It's kind of our little get out of jail free card
But really what it is. It's it's a display of the that person's personality or if they're their particular whatever
(21:51):
versus what I hear you saying is really ushering people welcoming people into much more a
deeper and more historical and more biblical
experience with with God and and and
Really the basis of kind of the educational experience here
Just like that being of a high degree of importance and I that's I think that's really really amazing
(22:12):
So Kevin is you so you're you're teaching all of our future Christian
Well, what counselors?
possibly psychologists possibly
Psychiatrists, I don't know if what they're
You know, they're they're caring for people for them for the mind for the for the soul as well
(22:34):
What what do you feel like grace obviously just so anyone knows Grace College has a very very long
history of Christian counseling they are
They had some pretty important
important individuals here that really I
For I don't want to say it too strongly but kind of forerunners in the Christian counseling world
I think it's fair to say I know many of my
(22:58):
Books that are on my shelf have probably grace college when on a lake in them somewhere or a professor or people that you know
Helped influence that what?
What does?
Christian counseling or in that area like what does that really look like?
Why is what is Christian counseling and the training and all of that and the and this is you know for there's undergraduate?
(23:21):
Trainings that go into that too and we often times we think about graduate but there's there's both
What does that even look like because I think that's always what I'm really curious in talking about of like, okay
for the person that just goes to a State University and gets this training to become a
Counselor versus a student that's coming here to grace college. What are the distinctives? What are the differences?
Yeah, I would say the first first one is is yeah, we do have a undergrad and we have our grad counseling as well
(23:47):
but we you have to start with your biblical foundation and in psychology and I use that very
purposefully because once you have a biblical foundation
You have to look at each theory and each approach to psychology
Very critically, right, you know, if you look at an existentialist, for example
(24:09):
There's they're asking good questions about meaning and purpose
but and I think those can be very useful in the context of defining because we have meaning and purpose as believers and
First Corinthians 10 31 gives us that purpose, but it doesn't say, you know
We're driven by these fears and we're driven by these things and there's many of it
(24:30):
You have to discount and that's what you have to keep in mind that that foundation has to be there
because any theory you hold up against does it line up with what we say in Scripture and so
There are elements that you can take from different people, but you have to run it through that filter
and you have to have it you have to have really
(24:52):
Deep conversations about what that looks like. We have our students taking biblical psychology
Write more of an anthropology it gets into a lot of of these heavy issues and and they're tough
I mean they really make you question. What are my own longings? What are my own drives?
What are those that are?
(25:14):
You know really bearing as
image bearers of God right and so
There's a there's a boy. There's a long way you can go with this discussion, but it's very it's a very important discussion
Yeah, I I know maybe and I'm sure we've encountered all of encountered them, you know within some of our Christian circles
a real
(25:35):
Concern or allergy to talking about about psychology, right?
like there there's you know, that's that's in the world of the secular right and and
And I think that draws me kind of the next question of just talking about the integration of Christian faith into any of the disciplines
You know here here at grace in particular
What just I guess at the baseline what is kind of the standard sort of biblical?
(26:00):
Theological training that just any student here at grace would would receive what does that look like for them?
Well, we actually have our core and the number of Bible courses that each students gonna have to take right and so we've got four
Courses that are kind of built into that core
I would say also as far as our faculty are concerned one of the things
(26:22):
so this my I'm in the middle of my third year doing this role and
One of those things was that each of our schools would go through the process of really integrating faith
Into
Just more of a training or kind of a refresher that we do and how we're integrating in every class
(26:45):
Yeah
and
so right now I have two separate schools that are going through that and I've had four that have already been through the process and
We have someone who comes alongside them and helps them walk their walk through that process
Because we want to be purposeful about what we're doing in every class. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean against a stewardship obviously
(27:06):
Parents are sending their young people here with a I would assume with a you know an expectation that
that's that that's encountered and
and yet I think you probably both would agree that if
for
For the young person who is struggling in faith, you know, but it's considering Christian College
(27:28):
My story is one, you know toward the end of my high school career. I was planning on going into broadcast journalism
I was applying to Indiana University
at the time I had all A's but one C in Spanish - and
I you wrote me back and said hey reapply next semester at the end of your senior at the end of your senior year and
The other Christian College that I was headed off to it already accepted me and I said by God's good grace
(27:54):
I said, I guess that's the you know, that's the direction I'm going
but I I think I think for the young person who is
Has questions about faith is struggling maybe it's not had the greatest discipleship experience
Is grace a place for them? How does how does how does that fit for them Wally?
(28:14):
I guess you know, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think so. I mean
You know, they I think through through the chapel experience
so students will have they they go to three chapels a week and they're they're also part of growth groups and and
Even though Chapel does not replace the local church. We really encourage students to get involved in local churches as well
(28:36):
I think I mean I think through all these different things and the courses
that Kevin
Spoke about I think it's a good place for somebody to you know
For God to get get a hold of somebody's heart and really begin to do a work in it. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah
Yeah, never never again. Will you have this kind of community?
(28:57):
Experience and exposure. It's true. I think that's maybe one of the hardest things after Christian College
I would say is I had this just really robust built in, you know, I'm learning all of these things
I'm having really making deep personal connections
Maybe for some of you finding finding your future spouse maybe on top of that, you know
(29:19):
Whoever whoever that might be. No, no, she said okay questionable
Our producers along the window someone's getting called out as we as we speak but I
Mean what an opportunity what an experience and and I I just think of even some of my lifelong friends some of my deepest relationships
I thought they'd be like oh in my younger years. I'd be making those but really I mean college college was the place
(29:44):
There's a few people that will
You know be friends forever out of that. I think that's that's really important
What
What are you guys seeing in terms of
in terms of the students that are that are coming here and
You know
They're having these
(30:04):
Really great experiences or these great resources and just kind of their own faith development and their own their own discipleship
What what are college students struggling with right now? Is it the same thing? They've always struggled with
Is it just that the season of life that they're in?
This is kind of the the laboratory in which they they do the struggling or would you guys identify certain things that are?
(30:25):
Are of particular challenge right now
And maybe maybe how grace collectively or in your classes how you've just tried to be sensitive to that and in student development
Yeah, I would say one of the things that you you see and if you look at the CDC flow data that looks at like
mental health for
our students 18 to 29 year olds
(30:48):
you know if you go back to December of
2019 before kovat, you know, we were seeing you know a combination of depression anxiety at 10 11 percent
You know, it shot up to around 48 percent and has stabilized back down into the 30s
Yeah, so depression anxieties. I mean obviously one of the things that
(31:08):
I think we have a generation that are just struggling more and
You have that's one of the things I think you have to ask yourself now is you know
It when you go off to school and you're just thinking about just intellectual development
it's about the whole person development and
And that means you're gonna have to deal with some stuff that maybe's been a real challenge that you know
(31:33):
we had a group of students who were staying home and
Social isolation is the biggest predictor of poor mental health. Yeah, right and that that did a lot of damage
and we're we're and in the college we're
trying to help unpack some of that and we talk about those things in Chapel and we we talk about those things on the hall and
(31:56):
As we try to serve our students, yeah
What what would you say is just in terms of student life here kind of the home the hallmarks of?
I think you've talked kind of it. There's a small kind of a small group component to but just the hallmarks of Grace College
Student student life like the things that are kind of trying to fill the cup of community experience and relationships
(32:20):
What would you identify here is like the some of the strong kind of a high the high notes and all of that?
Let's say Chapel is definitely, you know, it's required, you know, so
All of chapel every single one of us three times a week
We get up early where make sure the first there absolutely but a lot of my students are involved in leadership in Chapel and and which
(32:43):
So I kind of that they they obviously if you're in leadership
It's a different experience. I think I think Chapel is a real important part of the campus life here. I think just the
where we are just geographically miss it just a beautiful place to be and I
Kind of refer to it as the the Shire, you know, it's kind of the Shire
I said got the lake and it's just you know, some hiking and it's just you know, and I think
(33:06):
You know for some students maybe you know, depending on what their home life is like
I mean, I think in fact I had a student
She's like our Christmas break was way too long
I was so ready to come back because her situation was just not not great and she's like I just miss yeah
The the people here, you know, and I think I mean I hear that quite a bit, you know, that's awesome
(33:28):
Yeah, I would say the other thing is our student affairs is very committed to a sense of belonging
And and I think that's important today, you know
We don't used to be we put up these townhouses and those were the quickest ones to fill and now it's our dorms again
It's like the community living and I think that's a little bit of a response to that social isolation piece
(33:51):
Right. So I think that sense of belonging is something that our student affairs talks a lot about and trying to help people find
their place
Yeah, that's it's just good to know again. I
Know from for myself and I'm sure this is still the case for for many college students
like there are so many resources out there and really
(34:13):
the tendency is to underutilize to underutilize them as opposed to kind of diving headfirst and and for any I
mean, I'm I'm
Assuming you would approve of me saying that, you know here here at grace. I'm sure
Really asking questions for potential students people are looking to come here asking the questions about really
(34:35):
understanding all those resources that are available and really getting I mean
It's a really great way to get the full picture of what the college what any college experience can be about
I know for me I thought when like I was doing my initial walkthroughs
whatever it's like I'll never use this stuff or I'll never make use and then and then at some point if you get smart and
You wake up. You're like you're like, oh I I probably could use
(34:57):
The writing the writing assistance lab maybe or or the clinic down the hall or you know
like those things are here for for us and for me and so
Obviously you guys do a really great job of that here just in providing those services
And so that would be you know for anybody who is check out. Yeah, what's the check out those check out those those things?
(35:17):
Okay, Andy
Pop quiz pop quiz. All right, here it is time questions again two questions again and
I'll go first. You're gonna go first this time if you have
Somebody like a assistant helping you and walking you around every day with you. What would you have them do?
Like one one task, what would you have them do?
(35:38):
answer emails
Kevin really
Yeah, I would say writing
handbooks
Are you responsible for handbook writing in some ways? Yes. Yikes things they didn't warn you about
For the for the job
(36:00):
Gosh my question is is going to be
Oh
I know of all the places that you have visited
vacationed visited in
In the world where I was initially gonna say the US we're just gonna give a global we're gonna give a glow because I'm maybe some
Of you who maybe you guys have done some global travel of all the places that you have been the world
(36:24):
What what's the favorite spot?
Minneapolis
So this past May we took students to Budapest we did a music tour there and so we have we actually have a sister
University there called koroli gaspar. So koroli gaspar was the he was the reformer in Hungary
(36:48):
okay, kind of after Luther a little bit and
It's the largest reforms Christian Reformed University in Hungary about 6,000 students
So we have an exchange we have professors that go teach there and students that kind of come back and forth
But we took a group of worship art students over there
(37:09):
We did some concerts and and it's kind of my new my new favorite place
You know
You have the the Buddha side the Peche side and and the river separating the two and it's just gorgeous kind of that old
Eastern European
Yeah, beautiful people
Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, we have a go encounter which requires our you know students to have some kind of cross-cultural experience and so
(37:35):
Many of our faculty have been all over. Yeah, so
I've been in Greece three times and I have to say standing in Philippi. Oh
Where there's still uncovering
Areas of it right in there
But when you're standing in Philippi and you walk down a set of stairs and they're like, I here was Paul's prison cell. Yeah
(37:55):
So here's the doors that opened and you know, it's just a different level of experience
then when you're standing in Corinth and
You know those experiences with students are just unbelievable amazing. Amazing. Okay
Well gentlemen, you've successfully passed again again
You know which which you know when taking a quiz as a professor it feels like there's a there's a higher standard there and you guys
(38:21):
Have hit it out of the park. So congratulations. Well done
As always I just want to say thank you
To both of you for just coming on and joining us and being part of this experience
I I'm I just love the fact we were able to
Share this time. I love the fact that we've given this grade a content as well to these students
(38:42):
They they get they're gonna probably do some sort of remix on this
Add a lot. I hear adding a lot of echo really goes a long way
You should see them staring back at me like this guy. Okay
But but yeah to all of you. Thanks for joining us here at the dudes and dads
Podcast we're so grateful to have you each and every week. You can head over to dudes and dads comm
(39:04):
for all the goodies the merch past
Episodes future episodes even well, we'll put the future episodes on the hill. It's like a it's like a time machine on a website
AI Andy, it's crazy. What's what's out there now? It's possible
Wow, or you can head over to dudes and dads podcast at gmail.com. You can send us an email
(39:26):
We'd love to have your ideas for future show. We do love ideas for future shows
Sometimes people are like hey, I have someone that you should interview because they have a great story
We would love that and we don't know about those people unless you tell us
So get after it dudes and dads podcast community get after it. The job is yours
Help us out
(39:48):
Okay. Well, hey guys, we look forward to seeing you next time and until then we wish you grace and peace
On this episode of the dudes and dads podcast we're talking with our friends at Grace College
So welcome back it has been it feels like forever since we really it's been a hot minute Andy been a hot minute
(00:27):
And yet strangely enough we've been teleported back to the same table. Yeah
Previously with the same people to be fully honest. We are recording back-to-back, which we don't normally do how will we get through this?
It's like a mirror. It's like a podcast
Absolutely Andy well hey glad to have each and every one of you here for the dudes dead pop
Pop quiz and jumping the hunt already the dudes and dad's podcast. We do we do we end
(00:49):
Thanks for joining us
We're looking forward to the conversation at what we have lovingly entitled the grace college sessions
Yeah, yeah, I feel like it needs its own theme music. Yeah, and so and maybe it will get here
We go the grace college sessions
Yeah, that's that's that's where it's gonna go in where I'm excited to hear all the opera all the options that we've made available for
(01:14):
People to insert music right after that
But no what a thrill it is to be down here at what I what I haven't actually shared and well our guests will know
this
My wife is an alum an alumnus alumnus alum. It's not an alum not an alumna. What is there a female version?
What is the female version is there a female is it a gendered?
(01:35):
No one no no one at this table knows your wife went here long story short. She graduated from grace college
now
Gosh, let's see here. That would be 19 years ago. So it's been a it's been a spell
I was as we were driving over here. I was like all like very much like oh
I know how to get exactly where we're going and
Apparently enough time had passed by that. I did not exactly know how we were on the wrong side of campus
(02:00):
But nevertheless, we've we've made it here
To this recording session and recording the recording a podcast here number one
Because we well we were invited by our good friend Scott Allen to come and do here's an instructor here
We're so grateful for that number two his students are taking they're in a recording class here at Grace College
(02:20):
They are taking this content Andy this very content and doing a project and doing a project
submit it for their their recording class and
It's the level of pressure I feel
I've never sat behind a glass window. They're in the studio behind looking over there
They're looking over like typical like typical producers on the other side of the glass looking very nonchalant very comfortable
(02:45):
Well, we are in here sweating away that you know the talent as they call us
But nevertheless, we're thrilled to be here at Grace College. It's really great opportunity for us to record
They're gonna they're gonna get some they're all gonna get a's from this project obviously
But we also get to talk to friends about about the college experience
Thinking about where if you've got a young person who's thinking about college in the future
(03:09):
How how do you discern that how do you make that decisions and specifically on this episode? What is Grace College all about?
That's the that's the real question Andy
But first this episode is sponsored by everance federal credit union helping individuals and organizations
Integrate their faith and values with their banking needs learn more at everance comm slash banking credit union prior products are federally insured by
(03:31):
NCUA
Just for a small we'll call it a corporate sponsorship note Andy everance is also a
Advising partner here at Grace College ding ding ding winner winner chicken dinner
So thank you everance for your support and for helping our friends here at Grace College with whatever
Financial wizardry that you do here. So awesome. Okay, here we are. We're back in action
(03:57):
We've got our we've got our guests with us again. We will
introduce them a
Semi appropriately with us. We have dr. Wally Brath, who is the head of worship arts here at Grace College and then dr
Kevin Roberts who serves as we're gonna find out this time what in the world a provost is you said that last time and it?
Never came out. So we're gonna find out
(04:17):
Right now on the spot tell us what does a provost do because you're also professor here you teach classes
You do all the the normal professor stuff, but then the distinction of Provost what what's going on?
So that means everything related to academics so that might be library all the all the different schools that we have
all reports to me and
(04:40):
Registrar everything that you think that touches academics. Are you so you're like an academic CEO? I
Wouldn't go that far but something along that line. I'm just gonna say it right now
Kevin is the academic CEO here at Grace College and
It may not be on his business card
But I think it's I think it's time it is so I've just made a completely unofficial and non-binding a proclamation about that
(05:05):
but thank you for explaining so it's a it's a big a very big umbrella of responsibility of leadership here and
And we get to talk with you since their thing when Scott set up this recording session
He could have gotten any any person on staff here, but he said no
I'm getting a provost and that's how I knew that this was going to be an episode unlike any other
(05:29):
Not to not to shoot too high. Okay, so friends. Thank you
So glad to have you guys back with us here for session two of the grace college
If you've not heard the first session go back and listen to that our guests kind of introduce themselves
And they talked about all the things that they do. Yeah, they've got they have families. They're into interesting stuff. There's family bands
(05:50):
there's travel there's
prescription drugs and
And the talking out of prescription drugs in the same family. It's a it's a real
Yeah, wow, you should listen how?
How awesome I just took all that out of context just to create some tension
That's what we like to do the drama of it. So friends and while else I'll start with you. First of all you as
(06:17):
Here in the worship arts program and overseeing this and and leading and I and I will say I mean
We're sitting in this recording studio right now
For for a College of Grace colleges size, you know, this is a smaller Christian College, holy Toledo
What a resource here like that's pretty amazing. So I'm sure you're thrilled to have to have those resources
(06:42):
What brought you here to Grace College? What was your journey here? Yeah
Well, I was a worship pastor for 25 or so years
and during that time always
looking to kind of raise up
you know the next generation of worship leaders and
There was an opportunity when we were in Minneapolis
(07:03):
to teach
as an adjunct at Crown College and so did that for a few years and then
They they were looking for somebody to lead their worship arts program. So did that for a number of years?
And then Grace College. I had a high school friend that that lives in the area. He said hey Grace is thinking about
(07:24):
Starting a worship arts program you would be perfect for that
and I would really wasn't interested in the beginning just because
We were happy in Minneapolis
And as people in Minneapolis are I mean, you know, I mean my goodness
Despite the frigid air. It's one of the most active states and active cities in the United States if I understand correctly
(07:47):
Yeah, so people even in 14-degree weather they seem happy. That's true. Yeah, my brother lives there his family's there
So, you know, we were we were doing doing okay
So my friends like just just let me give them your your name and number just talk to them. And so
2016 January had a conversation
about about what they wanted to do here and you know through
(08:10):
Doing some church planting in Minneapolis and just kind of the entrepreneurial sort of aspect of ministry really
found that I enjoyed that that kind of you know, starting different things and developing things and
So yeah, I got to come here in 2016 and basically build build the program for the dream
Oh, it was amazing what I mean just a huge opportunity
(08:32):
So kind of taking, you know my years of experience in the local church
My time at Crown College, you know with that program and and just trying to take the best of all that and try to build
Build the program. So would you have ever I don't hear you saying that you would have ever imagined that you would be a college professor
Is that was that something that ever was on your radar prior to this experience?
(08:56):
No, I mean, you know, I did some adjunct work in in in the Twin Cities
I'm a pianist. So I even did some some like, you know
Teaching in the music side of things kind of throughout the years. But yeah, I mean probably when I was you know
Younger, I wouldn't have thought I would have been a college professor, but you never know you never know kids
(09:17):
You never you never know Kevin. What about you your your story of coming to grace?
Yeah, I was working and doing a lot of clinical work and counseling and so that was really what I was busy doing
And I started teaching just part-time and I fell in love with it loved working with the students
So I started teaching when they asked me to accept the role in a in the graduate counseling program
(09:44):
So and now I've been here. It's my 21st year Wow
and you're
Provosting - I mean, let's not not to beat a dead horse. But wow, what a
What a what a course
I mean, when you guys and I sort of joke about this but you know, I
(10:05):
don't I think sometimes we have this sense of like oh like
What a professor is or the background that they come for or you know, I don't know
I don't know if you have any any Blazers with with patches on the the elbows. That's
No, no patches on elbows by the way here tonight just to be to be clear, but it all patch free
But I think we have this idea of you know, the college professors this sort of removed academic, you know
(10:31):
ivory tower sort of person
But I hear you guys saying really is that your your background comes really out of as a practitioner as someone really doing
the work first
and
Then moving into this place of kind of how you can share those experiences within an academic setting
training future leaders future practitioners all of that
(10:53):
Would you have done it any other way does does it feel does it feel like that course
I mean, it's the course that you took does does it feel like that course is just the most
Natural for for both of you on Wally. Yeah. I mean, I think when I was younger
You know, I was feeling called to full-time ministry in the local church
So, I mean, I think this the course that God had has me on was just
(11:16):
You know just trying to be faithful to to kind of follow that call. So
And that's what I would I would tell students as well, you know, just I think you just have to be
Open to how how the Lord is is really calling you some, you know, honestly some students will come, you know
and and they think initially they're interested in worship arts and then and
We you know, we have a little bit of movement in terms of you know
(11:37):
I need to change my major and we even have a thing, you know
After their first year we do like an interview with the students just to make sure it's a good fit
You know, like is this a good, you know path for you?
And if not, we send them to youth ministry or something
No, I was just kidding. That's a ministry joke folks. And though it's a stereotype
relatively accurate so
(12:00):
Kevin how about you? I would say I wouldn't change the path
Yeah
I think working in the field was really and I probably had a biased
When I was Dean in behavioral sciences to trying to hire folks who had a lot of experiences
There's nothing wrong with just being a researcher
(12:21):
But you know, we're trying to train students to go out there and impact the king for the kingdom
Yeah, and having people with that practical hands-on knowledge. It just it speaks to the students. I think at a different level
Then just a textbook. Yeah. Well and you have you have that life experience
You know what it actually is like to do what you're doing in that field as opposed to just having a textbook
(12:46):
Tell you it. So yeah, that's speaks volumes. It does you know, you're teaching a class and you know
I'm teaching a class on addictions in the fall and you know, I'm like look you don't read these four chapters, you know
There's nothing in there. That's actually useful
and
Yeah, it's not then and the rest of this content. Yeah, it's great. I mean the textbooks fine overall, but let's be honest
(13:09):
What's what's what do they need to do this job? Well, yeah, that's really that's really really helpful
and and again, I the student gains the clarity of
Because for any student especially at the undergraduate level
There's kind of you're getting this education and all the stuff
You don't know like the the world is kind of hopefully opening up before you and you're like wow
(13:30):
There's a so much to be known and understood in here within this this discipline
and yet so when you can have someone that can kind of like
Narrow the road down for you a little bit and kind of say okay here here the places that you really
Really should be spending your time. Well, here's where the real focus should be
Because I just I remember just as a student sometimes
(13:53):
It's like me and some professor would blow my mind with kind of the whole area of study in a particular area and it's like I
Could go down that rabbit hole and not touch any of the rest of this stuff
How am I gonna navigate all of this and then you know your brain kind of gets turning so?
Again to have to have someone with some professional experience who's been out there in the real world doing the thing and knows
Hey, these are the these are the places that you should really be spending your time. I that's
(14:16):
That is a huge gift. I would I would say
So in all of that
What do you guys enjoy most about your jobs? Like what do you love here at grace?
Like what is what's the thing that gets you up in the morning to come and do this? I
Mean I love just the energy of being with the students and just being able to
(14:41):
interact with them
Honestly, I think when you teach a discipline you're you're kind of a lifelong learner as well. So I really appreciate that
I feel like I'm always kind of learning something
In in the context of a classroom or just you know discussions
Also just there's there's kind of a practical aspect to worship ours
(15:04):
we were just we actually just released another single so we have a
students that love to write worship songs and write songs and
So just kind of that hands-on, you know that that really
Because at heart I'm still kind of that worship pastor. Yeah, you know and and so being able to
Kind of do some of that practical hands-on things with students is really it's just really great. Yeah
(15:30):
Yeah, I honestly would say the students for me as well. I only get to teach two courses a year
But I have to tell you I get to the spring semester. I'm not teaching I'm looking at budget reports
And I'm right next to our so energizing right next to our CFO and I'm miserable right looking at those things and
marginal revenue analysis reports do not excite me and
(15:54):
But
The students, I mean, I honestly live for the two courses that I I do
Well, and it sounds like you both are doing things and teaching things that you love to do previous before teaching
And so it's cool to see
How you're able to impact the students and essentially like sending people out to do what you love to do, right?
(16:17):
While in leading worship parts here. I mean, what would you say? What are the grace College?
Distinctives for your worship arts program. Like what? What do you feel? You know a student that goes through the program here
Really walks out with the kind of the practical tools, but also kind of the formational tools
Like what are what's the what's the thing that if you're talking to if you're talking to parents?
(16:39):
Which we are right now talking to parents about with a young person that might be considering this like what's
What's the real thing that you say man?
We stand on these things because we really think we do a good job of them. We're really focused on them
Yeah, I mean I think just in general I think we we do a good job with
The the the theology part of worship and then also that kind of bringing together with the practical things so students
(17:03):
You know, they have to have to study a specific instrument. So voice piano guitar percussion
They they take lessons on that instrument they're in ensembles they do four semesters of music theory
Those kinds of things so kind of learning the language of music
But then on the other side
(17:23):
there's the theology of worship where they do biblical theology of worship and history of Christian worship and
Take courses in Old Testament New Testament
But I think you know as a kind of a you know, good evangelical, you know
We we love to really you know, the Word of God is kind of central I think to to our
History and and honestly is you know as I visit churches and I was just visiting a church
(17:47):
not too long ago where
It wasn't until maybe like 40 minutes into the service, you know
It's like an hour service like halfway into the sermon where there was any
Scripture being read in the service at all. And so I'm thinking to myself, you know, we you know as evangelicals
We we say that we're you know, we're we stand on the Word of God
(18:08):
We're you know Bible saturated and yet in our practice of worship. There's very little
Bible being read and even during the sermon you get little snippets of it
But you never necessarily get you know
Sometimes you don't get it read in its full context before the sermon like that's kind of a little bit more of a historical practice
so I think about the two places in the New Testament where Paul talks about musical worship both in Colossians and Ephesians and
(18:34):
He says in Colossians 3 16 let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly
And he says teaching and admonishing one another with Psalms hymns and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And so
You know when was the last time you sang a psalm, you know in church, right?
But but that's I mean that's like a and and and our music it teaches and even it admonishes us, you know
(18:57):
So and how do we how do we get the Word of Christ to dwell in us richly?
Well, we've got it. We've got to be exposed to it, right and it's not just in your own personal quiet time
You know at home, but we need we need it in worship in public worship
We need to hear the Word of God written
So historically there would be a lectionary where would there be a systematic way to read the Word of God in public worship?
(19:19):
Yeah, we just don't do that anymore
Yeah, and so we so in our classes we tried to I try to this is not the only way obviously to plan a worship
Service, but we try to use the Word of God
To structure the liturgy. Yeah, and actually use the Word of God as the basis
so instead of just saying well, I'm just gonna pick these songs and kind of have five songs a sermon and
(19:40):
And and then you know benediction or whatever
We we use the Word of God to structure the service and so the the Word of you know
God reveals himself through his word and then we respond to him
In worship and so yeah, I think that's a distinctive. I love it. I think of
Years ago reading NT Wright who said talked about evangelicals being absolutely in love with spontaneity
(20:03):
The the the idol of the idol of spontaneity and if it if it's not spontaneous
How can it be spirit-led and you know these these sort of things and I don't know if it's just me getting older
But and just more crotchety
I don't know but it's like when there is a structure of something cuz I by the way, I think every church has a liturgy
Either either it's a no liturgy
(20:25):
So it's by what they don't do that they that they form this or by or by some other intention
But most of us can walk into many of our evangelical churches and we like, okay. I know the gig right?
I know there's gonna be opening song. There's gonna be announcement. There's gonna be that
Whatever, you know, that's kind of how we how we go about it. There is structure there
And I really just hear you saying like here in particular how the level of intention to that though
(20:46):
Like just taking a moment and saying this is this is a formational opportunity and if we steward it well
Looking looking to the word first
You know, we we serve people well in that way. I I I'm sure I could really get you going
I mean cuz what I hear you saying is that?
Worship is not for entertainment
(21:08):
as the also as a side note and
You know, I think man, I just another pastor friend of mine. I just had this conversation their day of
long long ago
When I was at a conference and listen to a pastor talk about
about preachers
Wandering through the deep dark woods of it seems to me
(21:30):
and and to this point of
I'm gonna do it a spiritual TED talk and we're gonna we're gonna throw a scripture in there
We're gonna baptize the service with you know with that. It's kind of our little get out of jail free card
But really what it is. It's it's a display of the that person's personality or if they're their particular whatever
(21:51):
versus what I hear you saying is really ushering people welcoming people into much more a
deeper and more historical and more biblical
experience with with God and and and
Really the basis of kind of the educational experience here
Just like that being of a high degree of importance and I that's I think that's really really amazing
(22:12):
So Kevin is you so you're you're teaching all of our future Christian
Well, what counselors?
possibly psychologists possibly
Psychiatrists, I don't know if what they're
You know, they're they're caring for people for them for the mind for the for the soul as well
(22:34):
What what do you feel like grace obviously just so anyone knows Grace College has a very very long
history of Christian counseling they are
They had some pretty important
important individuals here that really I
For I don't want to say it too strongly but kind of forerunners in the Christian counseling world
I think it's fair to say I know many of my
(22:58):
Books that are on my shelf have probably grace college when on a lake in them somewhere or a professor or people that you know
Helped influence that what?
What does?
Christian counseling or in that area like what does that really look like?
Why is what is Christian counseling and the training and all of that and the and this is you know for there's undergraduate?
(23:21):
Trainings that go into that too and we often times we think about graduate but there's there's both
What does that even look like because I think that's always what I'm really curious in talking about of like, okay
for the person that just goes to a State University and gets this training to become a
Counselor versus a student that's coming here to grace college. What are the distinctives? What are the differences?
Yeah, I would say the first first one is is yeah, we do have a undergrad and we have our grad counseling as well
(23:47):
but we you have to start with your biblical foundation and in psychology and I use that very
purposefully because once you have a biblical foundation
You have to look at each theory and each approach to psychology
Very critically, right, you know, if you look at an existentialist, for example
(24:09):
There's they're asking good questions about meaning and purpose
but and I think those can be very useful in the context of defining because we have meaning and purpose as believers and
First Corinthians 10 31 gives us that purpose, but it doesn't say, you know
We're driven by these fears and we're driven by these things and there's many of it
(24:30):
You have to discount and that's what you have to keep in mind that that foundation has to be there
because any theory you hold up against does it line up with what we say in Scripture and so
There are elements that you can take from different people, but you have to run it through that filter
and you have to have it you have to have really
(24:52):
Deep conversations about what that looks like. We have our students taking biblical psychology
Write more of an anthropology it gets into a lot of of these heavy issues and and they're tough
I mean they really make you question. What are my own longings? What are my own drives?
What are those that are?
(25:14):
You know really bearing as
image bearers of God right and so
There's a there's a boy. There's a long way you can go with this discussion, but it's very it's a very important discussion
Yeah, I I know maybe and I'm sure we've encountered all of encountered them, you know within some of our Christian circles
a real
(25:35):
Concern or allergy to talking about about psychology, right?
like there there's you know, that's that's in the world of the secular right and and
And I think that draws me kind of the next question of just talking about the integration of Christian faith into any of the disciplines
You know here here at grace in particular
What just I guess at the baseline what is kind of the standard sort of biblical?
(26:00):
Theological training that just any student here at grace would would receive what does that look like for them?
Well, we actually have our core and the number of Bible courses that each students gonna have to take right and so we've got four
Courses that are kind of built into that core
I would say also as far as our faculty are concerned one of the things
(26:22):
so this my I'm in the middle of my third year doing this role and
One of those things was that each of our schools would go through the process of really integrating faith
Into
Just more of a training or kind of a refresher that we do and how we're integrating in every class
(26:45):
Yeah
and
so right now I have two separate schools that are going through that and I've had four that have already been through the process and
We have someone who comes alongside them and helps them walk their walk through that process
Because we want to be purposeful about what we're doing in every class. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean against a stewardship obviously
(27:06):
Parents are sending their young people here with a I would assume with a you know an expectation that
that's that that's encountered and
and yet I think you probably both would agree that if
for
For the young person who is struggling in faith, you know, but it's considering Christian College
(27:28):
My story is one, you know toward the end of my high school career. I was planning on going into broadcast journalism
I was applying to Indiana University
at the time I had all A's but one C in Spanish - and
I you wrote me back and said hey reapply next semester at the end of your senior at the end of your senior year and
The other Christian College that I was headed off to it already accepted me and I said by God's good grace
(27:54):
I said, I guess that's the you know, that's the direction I'm going
but I I think I think for the young person who is
Has questions about faith is struggling maybe it's not had the greatest discipleship experience
Is grace a place for them? How does how does how does that fit for them Wally?
(28:14):
I guess you know, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think so. I mean
You know, they I think through through the chapel experience
so students will have they they go to three chapels a week and they're they're also part of growth groups and and
Even though Chapel does not replace the local church. We really encourage students to get involved in local churches as well
(28:36):
I think I mean I think through all these different things and the courses
that Kevin
Spoke about I think it's a good place for somebody to you know
For God to get get a hold of somebody's heart and really begin to do a work in it. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah
Yeah, never never again. Will you have this kind of community?
(28:57):
Experience and exposure. It's true. I think that's maybe one of the hardest things after Christian College
I would say is I had this just really robust built in, you know, I'm learning all of these things
I'm having really making deep personal connections
Maybe for some of you finding finding your future spouse maybe on top of that, you know
(29:19):
Whoever whoever that might be. No, no, she said okay questionable
Our producers along the window someone's getting called out as we as we speak but I
Mean what an opportunity what an experience and and I I just think of even some of my lifelong friends some of my deepest relationships
I thought they'd be like oh in my younger years. I'd be making those but really I mean college college was the place
(29:44):
There's a few people that will
You know be friends forever out of that. I think that's that's really important
What
What are you guys seeing in terms of
in terms of the students that are that are coming here and
You know
They're having these
(30:04):
Really great experiences or these great resources and just kind of their own faith development and their own their own discipleship
What what are college students struggling with right now? Is it the same thing? They've always struggled with
Is it just that the season of life that they're in?
This is kind of the the laboratory in which they they do the struggling or would you guys identify certain things that are?
(30:25):
Are of particular challenge right now
And maybe maybe how grace collectively or in your classes how you've just tried to be sensitive to that and in student development
Yeah, I would say one of the things that you you see and if you look at the CDC flow data that looks at like
mental health for
our students 18 to 29 year olds
(30:48):
you know if you go back to December of
2019 before kovat, you know, we were seeing you know a combination of depression anxiety at 10 11 percent
You know, it shot up to around 48 percent and has stabilized back down into the 30s
Yeah, so depression anxieties. I mean obviously one of the things that
(31:08):
I think we have a generation that are just struggling more and
You have that's one of the things I think you have to ask yourself now is you know
It when you go off to school and you're just thinking about just intellectual development
it's about the whole person development and
And that means you're gonna have to deal with some stuff that maybe's been a real challenge that you know
(31:33):
we had a group of students who were staying home and
Social isolation is the biggest predictor of poor mental health. Yeah, right and that that did a lot of damage
and we're we're and in the college we're
trying to help unpack some of that and we talk about those things in Chapel and we we talk about those things on the hall and
(31:56):
As we try to serve our students, yeah
What what would you say is just in terms of student life here kind of the home the hallmarks of?
I think you've talked kind of it. There's a small kind of a small group component to but just the hallmarks of Grace College
Student student life like the things that are kind of trying to fill the cup of community experience and relationships
(32:20):
What would you identify here is like the some of the strong kind of a high the high notes and all of that?
Let's say Chapel is definitely, you know, it's required, you know, so
All of chapel every single one of us three times a week
We get up early where make sure the first there absolutely but a lot of my students are involved in leadership in Chapel and and which
(32:43):
So I kind of that they they obviously if you're in leadership
It's a different experience. I think I think Chapel is a real important part of the campus life here. I think just the
where we are just geographically miss it just a beautiful place to be and I
Kind of refer to it as the the Shire, you know, it's kind of the Shire
I said got the lake and it's just you know, some hiking and it's just you know, and I think
(33:06):
You know for some students maybe you know, depending on what their home life is like
I mean, I think in fact I had a student
She's like our Christmas break was way too long
I was so ready to come back because her situation was just not not great and she's like I just miss yeah
The the people here, you know, and I think I mean I hear that quite a bit, you know, that's awesome
(33:28):
Yeah, I would say the other thing is our student affairs is very committed to a sense of belonging
And and I think that's important today, you know
We don't used to be we put up these townhouses and those were the quickest ones to fill and now it's our dorms again
It's like the community living and I think that's a little bit of a response to that social isolation piece
(33:51):
Right. So I think that sense of belonging is something that our student affairs talks a lot about and trying to help people find
their place
Yeah, that's it's just good to know again. I
Know from for myself and I'm sure this is still the case for for many college students
like there are so many resources out there and really
(34:13):
the tendency is to underutilize to underutilize them as opposed to kind of diving headfirst and and for any I
mean, I'm I'm
Assuming you would approve of me saying that, you know here here at grace. I'm sure
Really asking questions for potential students people are looking to come here asking the questions about really
(34:35):
understanding all those resources that are available and really getting I mean
It's a really great way to get the full picture of what the college what any college experience can be about
I know for me I thought when like I was doing my initial walkthroughs
whatever it's like I'll never use this stuff or I'll never make use and then and then at some point if you get smart and
You wake up. You're like you're like, oh I I probably could use
(34:57):
The writing the writing assistance lab maybe or or the clinic down the hall or you know
like those things are here for for us and for me and so
Obviously you guys do a really great job of that here just in providing those services
And so that would be you know for anybody who is check out. Yeah, what's the check out those check out those those things?
(35:17):
Okay, Andy
Pop quiz pop quiz. All right, here it is time questions again two questions again and
I'll go first. You're gonna go first this time if you have
Somebody like a assistant helping you and walking you around every day with you. What would you have them do?
Like one one task, what would you have them do?
(35:38):
answer emails
Kevin really
Yeah, I would say writing
handbooks
Are you responsible for handbook writing in some ways? Yes. Yikes things they didn't warn you about
For the for the job
(36:00):
Gosh my question is is going to be
Oh
I know of all the places that you have visited
vacationed visited in
In the world where I was initially gonna say the US we're just gonna give a global we're gonna give a glow because I'm maybe some
Of you who maybe you guys have done some global travel of all the places that you have been the world
(36:24):
What what's the favorite spot?
Minneapolis
So this past May we took students to Budapest we did a music tour there and so we have we actually have a sister
University there called koroli gaspar. So koroli gaspar was the he was the reformer in Hungary
(36:48):
okay, kind of after Luther a little bit and
It's the largest reforms Christian Reformed University in Hungary about 6,000 students
So we have an exchange we have professors that go teach there and students that kind of come back and forth
But we took a group of worship art students over there
(37:09):
We did some concerts and and it's kind of my new my new favorite place
You know
You have the the Buddha side the Peche side and and the river separating the two and it's just gorgeous kind of that old
Eastern European
Yeah, beautiful people
Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, we have a go encounter which requires our you know students to have some kind of cross-cultural experience and so
(37:35):
Many of our faculty have been all over. Yeah, so
I've been in Greece three times and I have to say standing in Philippi. Oh
Where there's still uncovering
Areas of it right in there
But when you're standing in Philippi and you walk down a set of stairs and they're like, I here was Paul's prison cell. Yeah
(37:55):
So here's the doors that opened and you know, it's just a different level of experience
then when you're standing in Corinth and
You know those experiences with students are just unbelievable amazing. Amazing. Okay
Well gentlemen, you've successfully passed again again
You know which which you know when taking a quiz as a professor it feels like there's a there's a higher standard there and you guys
(38:21):
Have hit it out of the park. So congratulations. Well done
As always I just want to say thank you
To both of you for just coming on and joining us and being part of this experience
I I'm I just love the fact we were able to
Share this time. I love the fact that we've given this grade a content as well to these students
(38:42):
They they get they're gonna probably do some sort of remix on this
Add a lot. I hear adding a lot of echo really goes a long way
You should see them staring back at me like this guy. Okay
But but yeah to all of you. Thanks for joining us here at the dudes and dads
Podcast we're so grateful to have you each and every week. You can head over to dudes and dads comm
(39:04):
for all the goodies the merch past
Episodes future episodes even well, we'll put the future episodes on the hill. It's like a it's like a time machine on a website
AI Andy, it's crazy. What's what's out there now? It's possible
Wow, or you can head over to dudes and dads podcast at gmail.com. You can send us an email
(39:26):
We'd love to have your ideas for future show. We do love ideas for future shows
Sometimes people are like hey, I have someone that you should interview because they have a great story
We would love that and we don't know about those people unless you tell us
So get after it dudes and dads podcast community get after it. The job is yours
Help us out
(39:48):
Okay. Well, hey guys, we look forward to seeing you next time and until then we wish you grace and peace
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