Justice League International vs West Coast Avengers

Listen to the DynaMic Podcast Network at http://dynamicpodcasts.com
Join our community at https://patreon.com/dynamicduel
• 0:00:00 - Introduction 
• 0:04:08 - No-Prize Time 
• 0:09:49 - Question of the Week 
• 0:10:29 - Justice League International vs West Coast Avengers intro 
• 0:13:54 - West Coast Avengers history and roster 
• 0:24:04 - Justice League International history and roster 
• 0:34:36 - Fight speculation 
• 0:49:50 - Duel results 
• 0:53:55 - Sign off 
Website: https://dynamicduel.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/dynamicduelpodcast
Merch: https://dynamic-duel-shop.fourthwall.com/
Executive producers: John Starosky, Zachary Hepburn, Dustyn Balcom, Miggy Matanguihan, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Austin Wesolowski, AJ Dunkerley, Nic Abanto, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Speas, Dean Maleski, Devin Davis, Joseph Kersting, Josh Liner, Mike Williams, Oscar Galvez, and Paul Graves
"Take a Chance" "Clash Defiant" "Blip Stream" "Nowhere Land" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com), Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
#JusticeLeagueInternational #WestCoastAvengers #MarvelVsDC


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/dynamic-duel-dc-vs-marvel--5414543/support.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is a DynaMic Network Podcast. Hi, welcome tothe Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we

(00:27):
review superhero films and debate thesuperiority between Marvel and DC by comparing
their characters and stat-based battlesimulations. I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin
brother, Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, weare taking a break from the reviews to do a team
duel, this time a rematch between the JusticeLeague and Avengers, but more specifically, the

(00:50):
Justice League International against the WestCoast Avengers. Yeah, there are different
spin-off branches of the traditional JusticeLeague and Avengers teams. I got to say, Jonathan,
this is my chance for sweet ass revenge against theJustice League for what happened in our first
initial team duel all those years ago. Yeah, thatwas episode 100. That seems like forever ago. It

(01:13):
was back in 2018, back when we were just kids. Oh,what I wouldn't give to be seven years younger.
Well, it's gonna be a fun match this episode. Lookforward to that later on. Before that, we're not
going to break down the comic book movie newsbecause as per the norm for the past several weeks,
there really isn't any like James Gunn has beentalking a lot about various DC projects, but

(01:35):
nothing really concrete. Penguin did getnominated for 24 Emmys, but that's not really news
until I actually win something. We're all justkind of waiting for Fantastic Four to come out and
just lose horribly box office wise and criticallyto Superman. Yeah, when Fantastic Four beats
Superman's opening weekend, we could definitelytalk about that in the new section. That'll be fun.

(01:58):
Yeah, or vice versa. Superman beats FantasticFour. It's not going to happen. You sack of shit.
Roll up. Roll up, bro. I guess we'll find out lateron this week what happens. But as always, we list
our segment times in our episode description, sofeel free to check out the show notes if you want to
skip ahead to a particular topic. Guys areartificially intelligent. Dual simulator, AJ9K

(02:19):
has a quick message for our listeners. So listenup. Why hello there. Do you want even more from this
podcast? Then become a part of the dynamic dualcommunity on Patreon, where you can choose from
three tiers. The dynamic to a tier gives you accessto our discord chat server. The Fantastic Four
tier gives you two bonus episodes each month. Andthe X Force tier makes you an executive producer of

(02:41):
this show. Lastly, the Diner Mike podcast networktier lets you create your own podcast using this
Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will helpyou develop your show, provide graphic support
and consultation and get you simulation results.Pitch the twins, your ideas via email at dynamic
dual podcast at gmail.com. Check it out atpatreon.com slash dynamic dual. Pip pip cheerio.

(03:05):
Thanks AJ9K and thanks to everyone who supportsthe podcast. Be sure to tune into the other shows
and the Diner Mike podcast network this week,including the console combat podcast where hosts
John and Dean simulate battles between popularvideo game characters. In yesterday's episode,
they determined who would win between Rayman andJake the dog from Adventure Time. Over on the Max

(03:27):
Destruction podcast hosts Scotty and Gilly, PayYour Favor Action Heroes from film and television
against each other. This week, they'll be findingout who would win between Aaron Cross from The Born
Legacy and Jack Reacher. And on the San Joe Worldpodcast hosts Zachary Hepburn speculates on
fights between fan favorite anime and mangacharacters. In his next episode, Zach's going to

(03:48):
reveal who would win between Injun from GaichiAkura and Naito Mudano from Togon Anki. There's no
way I'm pronouncing any of that right. Visitdynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show
notes to listen to all of the shows in the Diner Mikepodcast network. But with that out of the way,
quick to the no prize. A no prize is an award thatMarvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the

(04:15):
Dynamic Dual No Prize, is a digital award we post onInstagram for the person that we feel gave the best
answer to our question of the week. Last week, weasked you guys, what do you want the sequel to the
Superman movie to be about? And this is coming offof the phenomenal box office opening weekend for
the Superman movie, which will more than likelywarrant a sequel for the character. We got quite a

(04:38):
few answers. We're going to break down this week'shonorable mentions before revealing the no prize
winner. Our first honorable mention goes toTravis Herndon, who said, What's up, dead, I'm a
dude. Travis here. Shout out to my evil twin. So myanswer would be, be like, what if Superman is for
the sequel actually meets Mongol? I think Mongolwould be a pretty cool villain to introduce in the

(05:01):
sequel. He's a tank. This dude is powerful. Andthis guy also be a nice little wedding of the
appetite for DC fans for like whenever dark sideshows up, like, hey, this guy with rock and swoop
man, shit, magic dark side rocking them. Yeah, Ilove the idea of Superman going up against a
formidable physical threat like Mongol, wholiterally owns an entire planet that's

(05:25):
essentially like a Death Star, but way cooler.Yeah, war world. Yeah, we haven't seen Mongol on
the silver screen yet. I'd love to see someone newfor Superman to fight. And Mongol is a great
choice. And we know that he exists within this DCuniverse because we saw his sister Mongal in the
Suicide Squad movie that James Gunn alsodirected. That is correct. But hopefully Mongol

(05:48):
wouldn't go out like a punk ass like she did with thehelicopter. Right, right, right, right. Great
answer. Travis, our next honorable mention goesto Alex Albro, who said, Hey guys, given the
message from Superman's parents, I think there'sstill a lot left on the table for the media to begin
Superman, especially if the antagonist of thesecond movie is some sort of Kryptonian invader. I
think you can get Kara involved there, dependingon how they handle it. You could even cause a rift

(06:11):
between Superman and Lois based on his actions. Ithink the second movie should end darker just
since this first one was pretty upbeat andpositive. And I think we still benefit from seeing
Superman in a vulnerable position. I think Lexshould stay in jail till the third movie or till
maybe a Justice League team up where he comes backwith an injustice gang. Now, of course, we've seen
Kryptonian threats go up against Superman infilms like Superman to Antiban of Steel,

(06:34):
specifically with Zod and his crew. I think if youweren't going to go that direction just to do
something new, though, other Kryptonian threatscould include like Doomsday or maybe like an evil
version of the eradicator. We've seen Doomsday aswell, but I think this would be an opportunity to do
him even better than BVS did. That's right. Yeah,we haven't seen him done right, at least. You know,

(06:56):
you could do actually, there is a recent villaincalled Rogel Zarr that was created by Jim Lee, who I
think was a creation of Jor-El, and he was revealedto actually be the one responsible for Krypton's
destruction. That might be interesting. Thatwould be interesting. Great answer, Alex. Our
final honorable mention goes to BraydenSchaffer, who said. Brayden here, I think the

(07:19):
perfect equal would have Zod being the villain. Wecould see Superman fight an actual Kryptonian and
not a clone. We could see Zod not get killed onscreen this time. And we could see how the public
thinks of the rest of Krypton after, you know, thewhole news article. And I think it'd be great at the
end of that to have a post-credits scene teasingDoomsday for that final kind of tease of

(07:44):
Superman's big fight. I mean, it is really hard todo better than Zod. He's one of Superman's
ultimate foes. I wouldn't hate a reimagining ofhim. And like Brayden and Alex said, it would be a
nice continuation of the story established in thefirst Superman movie. Right. Continuing the
whole Kryptonian angle where they're moreconquerors, almost like Viltramites or

(08:07):
something like that. Great answer, Brayden. Wewant to give a quick shout out to Lorenzo Valdez for
taking the time to visit our website and record ananswer. But the winner of this week's No Price is
Cornelius Robinson. Who said? Hey, guys, it'sCornelius Robinson. And my idea for the next
Superman sequel, we introduced the villain,Brainiac, you know, it would be too soon, but who

(08:30):
knows, it is new DC universe. A new character thatcan also introduce as John Henry Irons, aka Steel,
and a possible return for Supergirl to help combatthis unknown thread and expanding Superman's
responsibility to Earth as well. I've beenwaiting to see Brainiac on the silver screen for so

(08:52):
long. He is sort of the ultimate Superman villain.And I don't understand why we haven't seen him on
screen yet. I think with Supergirl beingintroduced in this universe, it also makes
perfect sense that Brainiac would come,considering he's the one who shrunk the city of
Kandor, where Supergirl's parents lived. Yeah.And since he's kind of a tech based villain, it'd be

(09:15):
cool for Superman to team up with another techbased hero in Steel and introduce him in that movie
and actually get the whole Superman family goingup against Brainiac. I think that'd be cool. I
don't know if I'm quite ready for Steel. I do likethe idea of him coming around with the other reign
of the Superman Superman characters likeSuperboy and the eradicator. But I could be wrong.

(09:37):
Steel is a really cool character. So great answer,Cornelius. You win this week's No Prize. If you're
the listener want to shot at winning your own NoPrize. Stay tuned to later on in this episode, when
we'll be asking another question of the week,which is right now. So onto the question of the
week. For those who have seen the Fantastic Fourfirst steps in its opening weekend, what did you

(10:01):
think? And why was it inferior to Superman? If youwant to include that in your answer, you mean
superior. Record your answer at dynamicduel.comby clicking on the red microphone button in the
bottom right hand corner of the screen, which willprompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message
could be up to 30 seconds long. And don't forget toleave your name in case we include you on the
podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and awardthat person a Dynamic Duel No Prize that we'll post

(10:25):
to Instagram. Be sure to answer before July 27th.But now let's go ahead and move on to the main events
of this episode, where we pits against each other,the teams of the Justice League International and
the West Coast Avengers. OK, Justice LeagueInternational versus the West Coast Avengers. As

(11:05):
we mentioned earlier, this is something of arematch for these two teams. Since the very first
team duel that we did in episode 100 of this podcastwas the Justice League versus the Avengers. But
those two teams have such broad rosters. We kneweventually we would be able to get the best of the
best and we'd have to circle back with some of theseextra characters in the aftershoots that these
teams have had in the comics. Yeah, plus I justreally want to rematch. Yeah, I bet you do. And the

(11:31):
West Coast Avengers are just the perfect team to doit. I don't know much about Justice League
International, but I know that they're not as goodas the West Coast Avengers, which is primarily
composed of your standard Avengers. They justmoved over to the West Coast for a while, operating
out of LA. Oh, they operate out of LA. Oh, yeah, theJustice League International operates out of the
world, the whole world. It's international, notregulated to a single coast. Where is their

(11:57):
headquarters? Actually, they have headquartersall around the world as well. Oh, really? OK. Yeah.
Why be based around the world when you could bebased in LA? Right? Right. No. No. Well, since
these teams don't need too much setting up, let'sgo ahead and get right into it. To explain the
methodology behind our duels, let's go to oursentient dual simulator, Alfred Jarvis 9000.

(12:21):
AJ9K, tell our listeners how you go aboutdetermining a winner in our team dual matchups.
Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winnerbetween the two teams is by running 1000 Monte
Carlo simulations between every character oneach team using their statistics. A Monte Carlo
simulation is a probabilistic model used todetermine outcomes through random sampling. In

(12:43):
this case, I randomize the statistics along anormal distribution as a way to simulate the many
variables that can occur during battle. The statparameters are based on the official Marvel power
grid from which the DC characters' statistics areextrapolated. Additional stat categories are
included such as range, damage potential,versatility and perception in order to create a

(13:04):
more detailed and accurate simulation. Theresults of the 49000 simulations provide a
percentage of wins for each character on bothteams. The team with the higher average win rate is
declared the victor as they have a higherprobability to win any given battle. In an
equitable pairing, neither team should win 100%of the matches. The comic book stories have shown
that there's even a way for Batman to defeatSuperman, so the confidence rate of my method

(13:28):
falls in line with the precedents that have beenestablished in the source material. My
mathematical simulations are withoutsubjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole
consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated fordetermination of the winner. Thanks, AJ9K.
Before we run the simulations, though, we'd liketo break down each team's histories and rosters
before improvising a scenario on how we imagineone of the thousands of simulations would play out

(13:53):
beat for beat. And I believe it's my turn to gofirst. So let me break down the West Coast Avengers
history. Most of the New York City based Avengersvanished when a cosmic being called the beyonder
whisked heroes and villains to a distant world towatch them fight in a secret war. In their absence,
acting Avengers Chairman Vision, fearing Earthwas underprotected, convinced the US National

(14:18):
Security Council to approve a second Avengersteam roster on the Pacific Coast and chose Clint
Barton, Hawkeye, to command it. You can learn moreabout the primary Avengers team in the episode
where we put them against the Justice League.Hawkeye and his new wife, former shield agent
Bobby Mockingbird Morris, bought a neglectedseaside estate near Los Angeles and recruited to

(14:40):
the initial team the super strong Simon Williams,AKA Wonder Man and Iron Man, who was actually Jim
Rhodes wearing Tony Stark's armor at the time,while Stark worked on recovering from his
alcoholism. The giant sized scientist BillFoster, AKA Goliath, oversaw renovations that
turned the coastal property into a new base calledthe Avengers compound. Rounding out the debut

(15:04):
roster was the feline heroine Greer Nelson, AKATigra, a Chicago native who worked in a lab
undergoing secret conditioning experimentsthat boosted her strength, speed and senses. She
was later transformed by a member of the Mystic Catpeople into the half human, half feline Tigra.
After establishing a career as a vigilante, sheauditioned for the Avengers, accepting

(15:27):
Hawkeye's call to help found the PacificDivision. The West Coast Avengers first crime
fighting mission came when the thief called theblank, fled a robbery with tech that accidentally
recalled the villain Graviton from exile.Graviton tried to rip Los Angeles off its
foundations until the team brought him down. TheWest Coasters then flew east in a Quinn jet to help

(15:47):
the original team stop the cosmic schemerMaelstrom, proving the two branches could
operate side by side. Hank Pym, the originalAnt-Man, moved into the Avengers compound as its
resident scientist, while Wonder Man's brother,the Grim Reaper, formed a new lethal legion with
Ultron and other villains. The legion ambushedthe compound and took the hero's captive, but

(16:10):
Mockingbird's surprise ambush distracted thevillains long enough for her teammates to break
free. The Reaper seemingly died in the fight andUltron retreated. James Rhodes soon revealed his
true identity in the Iron Man suit, after which therecovered Tony Stark reclaimed to the armor and
roadie became War Machine. Tigra's increasinglyferal behavior attracted Craven the Hunter, who

(16:32):
stalked her across Hollywood backlots until theAvengers drove him off. Soon afterward, the
team's newest member, a devout New Mexican hero,Firebird, was hunted by the demon called Master
Pandemonium, intent on reclaiming shards of hisbroken soul hidden within her. The Avengers
tracked the villain to the hidden realm of the catpeople, where Tigra bargained to merge her split

(16:54):
human and feline selves in return forPandemonium's death, a deal she later regretted.
The villain Dominus next lured the team to NewMexico and used Dr. Doom's time platform to hurl
them backward through history. Mockingbird wasstranded in the 1800s, drugged by Phantom Rider,
into believing she loved him. The rest of the teamlanded in ancient Egypt and clashed with Pharaoh

(17:17):
Rama Tut. The moon god Kahnchoo guided his modernchampion Moon Knight, Hank Pym and Firebird to
mount a rescue. After months of jumping throughtime, the Avengers reunited, and Mockingbird let
her abuser fall to his death. Upon returning to thepresent, the heroes defeated Dominus. A period of
governmental tension followed. The mystique'sfederal squad, the Freedom Force, arrested both

(17:42):
Avengers branches on false trees and chargesdevised by the Zodiac cartel. You can learn more
about mystique in her duel against Madame Rouge.Soon after, Washington forced the unstable super
soldier, John Walker, aka US agent, onto the WestCoast roster as Field Leader. Hawkeye resigned in
protests, Mockingbird followed, and the pairmentored the quirky Great Lakes Avengers.

(18:06):
Meanwhile, in the International Coalitiondismantled Vision for his past attempt to seize
global computer networks. Hank Pym rebuilt him,now chalk white and emotionless, because Wonder
Man refused to lend his brain patterns a secondtime. You can learn more about Vision in his duel
against Marsha Manhunter. Vision's blank slateworsened Scarlet Witch's grief after her twin

(18:26):
sons, created by her magic, were reabsorbed intothe demon Mephisto. Manipulated by Magneto and
Time Master Amortus, she attacked her teammatesuntil Agatha Harkness restored her mind. Roster
Turnover continued as Spider Woman and theelectricity-powered Living Lightning joined
the team. Stark, battling health issues, fakedhis death and ceded the team lead to War Machine.

(18:49):
Interstellar Conflict soon pulled the West Coastroster back into space. When Kree soldiers used a
Stargate near Earth to attack the rival ShiarEmpire, both Avengers teams split into three
squads to keep the fight away from the sun. The WestCoast unit failed to stop Shiar Commandos from
stealing the Kree Negabands and a bomb made fromthat energy killed billions in Kree's space. Some

(19:12):
members, led by Iron Man, executed the KreeSupreme Intelligence for that genocide, a choice
that offended others and left deep scars betweenteammates. Back on Earth, the Avengers roster
shifted again. Tigra, Hank Pym and the Wasp movedto reserve status, letting US agent Spider Woman
and Living Lightning step into full membership.Hawkeye and War Machine rejoined and the teenager

(19:36):
Darkhawk joined as a part-time player. Ultronreturned in adamantium form, infected Hawkeye,
Tigra and Quicksilver with techno-organicimplants and unveiled Alkama, a murderous bride
cloned from Mockingbird's mind. The Avengerspurged the implants and turned Ultron's own
missile against him and Alkama, apparentlydestroying them both. Hank Mann, backed by demons

(19:58):
Satanish and Mephisto, formed another lethallegion and struck the depleted West Coast
Avengers. In the Infernal fight, Mockingbirdsacrificed herself to save Scarlet Witch and she
died in Clint's arms. The Avengers compound lay inruins, membership had fallen and disputes were
constant. Captain America convened an all-handsvote and led by Stark, the majority closed the West

(20:21):
Coast branch. Stark then formed a new team calledForceworks with several West Coast alumni, but
that group collapsed within a year and mostmembers drifted back to the main Avengers. The
deserted Avengers compound later reopened as thetraining campus for teenage heroes of Avengers
Academy. California still lacked frontlinedefenders, however, so Kate Bishop, the second

(20:44):
Hawkeye, started a detective agency in SantaMonica. When giant Landsharks rampaged along the
pier, she called Clint for backup and assembled afresh West Coast Avengers lineup, including the
dimension-hopping Miss America, theenergy-absorbing Fuse, the sarcastic telepath
Kid Omega, and the reality-warping Gwen Pool, whoadopted a baby Landshark named Jeff. Mademask

(21:08):
soon captured the rookies with her West CoastMasters of Evil, but Kate's ex-boyfriend, Novar,
aka Marvel Boy, helped them escape. The team thenreceived new headquarters in Venice Beach.
During the dark Elf Lord Malekith's invasion ofEarth, Kate joined a babysitting squad guarding
Thor's infant sister, Lhasa, while her teammatesfought Frost Giants in San Francisco. Afterward,

(21:31):
Tony Stark and Rody organized arehabilitation-focused West Coast roster that
included longtime ally Spider Woman and veteranhero Firestar. Their opening mission dismantled
a machine-based religious cult called the Gospelof Ultrons, which was formed from the fragments of
Ultron. And that's the West Coast Avengershistory. For the seven-person roster going into

(21:52):
the team duel, I'll admit I was a little loose withthe official members. For starters, I did include
several of the founding West Coast Avengersmembers, including War Machine, Wonder Man, and
Tigra. The Wasp was an early recruit to the team, soI'm including her. Quicksilver was a later
recruit, but I've been dying to squeeze him in ateam duel and passed over our last X-Factor duel

(22:12):
just to have him here. For the final two spots, I'lladmit I'm going a little rogue and blurring the
lines between what constitutes a West CoastAvenger and a regular Avenger. Black Panther has
never officially been part of the West Coastroster, but he has fought alongside them. And
given that he's been a major player for theAvengers over the years, I thought it best that I

(22:32):
include him in one of these team duels. The samegoes for Hercules, who again has never been an
official West Coast member, but is an Avengernevertheless, through and through. And frankly,
a lot of the other prominent West Coast Avengersmembers have already been in team duels like
Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Scarlet Witch, and Vision werewith the main Avengers in their duel. Mockingbird

(22:53):
was with the A-Force, Moon Knight was with theDefenders, US Agent was just with the
Thunderbolts. I could have gotten some reservemembers in here like Darkhawk or Firebird or
Living Lightning, but I thought it was better to gowith Black Panther and Hercules. Because now I
think you can say that most of the classic comicAvengers have been in a team duel. So to reiterate,
my West Coast Avengers team is War Machine, WonderMan, TIGRA, The Wasp, Quicksilver, Black Panther

(23:21):
and Hercules. That may be most bored I've ever beenlistening to one of your backstories. They don't
have a great backstory. It's not very thematic andit's burdened by a lot of roster changes,
enclosures and things like that. At least theroster is cool. I actually really like this
roster, even though it's not entirely faithful.It is a good cast of Avengers characters, I would

(23:45):
say. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, largely you wentwith these characters also because of the
pairings with the JLI roster that you have in thatwe like to keep things even between the teams by
pairing each individual character with acounterpart from the other side, but I'll let you
get into the Justice League International rosteras you get into their history, which I'll do now.

(24:06):
Now, after the disbanding of the original JusticeLeague of America, a new United Nations backed
initiative formed a global peacekeepingsuperhero team under the banner of the Justice
League. The league was reorganized with theintention of operating internationally with
multiple embassies and government oversight.Spearheaded by UN liaison Maxwell Lord, the new

(24:29):
team operated out of the embassies in New YorkCity, Moscow, Paris, London and Tokyo with their
primary headquarters in the secret sanctuary, aformer hidden headquarters of the Justice League
of America just outside of Happy Harbor, RhodeIsland. The initial roster consisted of a mix of
veteran heroes and newer recruits. Blue Beetle,Booster Gold, Guy Gardner, the Green Lantern,

(24:54):
Martian Manhunter, Black Canary, Shazam, Dr.Fate and Mr. Miracle, with Batman serving as a
guiding presence. Over time, the team added moreinternational members, such as Fire from Brazil,
Ice from Norway, Rocket Red from the Soviet Unionand the Crimson Fox from France. The group

(25:16):
developed a reputation for balancing worldthreatening commissions with interpersonal
dysfunction and comedic tension, particularlybetween characters like Guy Gardner and Booster
Gold. The team battled numerous global threats,including a new royal flush gang and the
time-manipulating overmaster. They alsodefended Earth from alien invasions and

(25:36):
collaborated with other superhero groups aroundthe world. As the organization grew, it fractured
into multiple branches. The main team continuedas Justice League International, while a
European branch was founded later under the nameJustice League Europe, operating out of a Chateau
in the Loré Valley of France. Justice LeagueEurope's roster eventually included elongated

(26:00):
men, metamorpho, power girl and Captain Adam.Though the league enjoyed official recognition,
tensions arose with traditional US authoritiesand internal conflicts began to weaken its unity.
Maxwell Lord increasingly manipulated theteam's direction behind the scenes, using his
influence and technology to control outcomes.The team's operations took them across the globe,

(26:24):
from Japan to Bialia, a fictional Middle Easterncountry where they were often entangled in
political intrigue. In one mission, they stoppedthe Queen Bee's attempt to create a mid-human
army. Another one took them to Apocalypse, whereMr. Despite their successes, the team was often
mocked by the media as being more of a circus than aserious force, a reputation not helped by the

(26:50):
personalities of its more flamboyant members.Booster Gold and Blue Beetle, in particular,
developed a close friendship that became centralto the team's dynamic, often spearheading
care-brained business ventures and stunts thatcaused both trouble and amusement for the group.
Over time, leadership changed hands. Batmaneventually left due to ideological differences

(27:12):
with Maxwell Lord. Captain Adam took a leadershiprole for a time, while Martian Manhunter served as
a stabilizing presence. The league continuedoperating internationally, but fractures
deepened when internal corruption was revealed.Maxwell Lord was exposed for secretly
manipulating events using a computer systemcalled Kilgore. After being shot, Lord was

(27:34):
temporarily replaced by Oberon and later by otherUN appointees. The Justice League International
eventually disbanded. Some of its memberscontinued on with a newly reformed Justice League
of America, while others retired or pursued solomissions. Years later, Maxwell Lord attempted to
rebrand his public image and reassemble asmaller, more relatable superhero team. He

(27:59):
contacted several former members of the JusticeLeague International and convinced them to join a
new low-profile operation known as the SuperBuddies. Operating out of a strip mall office in
Queens, New York, the team included Blue Beetle,Booster Gold, Fire, Elongated Man, his wife Sue
Dibney, and Captain Adam, along with Maxwell Lordand Oberon as support staff. Later additions

(28:22):
included Mary Marvel and the magical chimpanzeeDetective Chimp. The Super Buddies focused on
local threats and public engagement. Theiroperations were less about world saving and more
about improving their public image andself-esteem. They tackled issues like hostage
situations and metahuman disputes, but oftenfound themselves overwhelmed or outmatched.

(28:44):
Despite the comedy and dysfunction thatsurrounded the group, they genuinely tried to
help their community. At one point, the team waskidnapped to hell by demons posing as
superheroes, forcing them to work together toescape. In another incident, they were trapped
inside of a magical sitcom reality. The SuperBuddies eventually disbanded after realizing
they were not suited for full-time heroics. Theexperience, however, deepened the bonds between

(29:09):
many of the original Justice LeagueInternational members and offered closure to
long-standing tensions within the group. Afterthe Super Buddies disbanded, several of its
members returned to mainstream superheroactivity. Maxwell Lord, who had remained
publicly dormant for years, resurfaced withtelepathic powers and a hidden agenda. Secretly
working to eliminate superhumans, he considereddangerous. Lord reactivated a Brother Eye

(29:34):
satellite system and manipulated events toincite distrust in metahuman. He covertly used
his powers to control minds, including that ofSuperman, who he turned against the League in a
test of loyalty. Blue Beetle uncovered Maxwell'splot, but was unable to stop him. When Blue Beetle
refused to join Lord's cause, he executed him witha gunshot to the head. This act set off the events of

(29:58):
Infinite Crisis, during which Wonder Woman wasforced to kill Maxwell Lord to free Superman from
his control. The Justice League Internationalera was definitively closed with Blue Beetle's
death, and many of its surviving members were leftshaken and disillusioned. That is, until
post-Flashpoint continuity, when the UnitedNations again sanctioned a global superhero team

(30:19):
after the public debut of the original JusticeLeague. This time the team was formed explicitly
as a counterbalance to the independent nature ofthe main League, with government oversight as a
prerequisite. Maxwell Lord was replaced by UNdirector Andre Briggs, who selected Booster Gold
as the team's leader due to his public appeal andhistorical record. Their new base of operations

(30:41):
was the United Nations Hall of Justice, designedas a diplomatic and operational headquarters
rather than a superhero hideout. The new lineupincluded Booster Gold, Guy Gardner, Fire Ice,
Vixen, Gdiva, Red Rocket, and August General &Iron. Batman joined the team as a representative
of the original Justice League, assigned toensure that the new team would not jeopardize

(31:05):
global security. While Booster was nominally incharge, Batman frequently stepped in as a de facto
leader during crises. Their first major missioninvolved stopping the signalmen, giant alien
constructs awakened by unknown forces. TheLeague worked to neutralize the signalmen's
threat and discovered their connection to anancient interdimensional force. Their success

(31:28):
led to an increase in public support, and theUnited Nations promoted their visibility as a
deterrent against metahuman threats. The Leaguesoon faced internal strain as Gdiva and Booster
clashed over leadership and media handling. TheRocket Red's armor, erratic behavior, and the
August General's authoritarian tactics causedtension. Despite this, the team held together and

(31:51):
responded to global emergencies including alienincursions, terrorism, and environmental
disasters. During a mission in the country,Derain, the team was ambushed by a group of
cybernetically enhanced assassins under theemployee of the villain Breakdown. Rocket Red was
mortally wounded and several team members werecritically injured. Booster Gold was briefly

(32:12):
presumed dead after sacrificing himself to stop abomb. This marked the effective end of the Justice
League International. The UN officiallydisbanded the group, setting its high casualty
rate and public relations issues. Booster Goldlater appeared, displaced in time. This future
self-involved an ecober effort to preventcatastrophic events tied to the multiverse.

(32:34):
While the Justice League International did notofficially reform, its surviving members
continued to collaborate during global crisesand crossover events, often setting their shared
past as a source of camaraderie and tacticalcoordination. Now for the Justice League
International's seven-member roster, I decidedto start with the iconic members of Booster Gold,

(32:58):
the Blue Beetle Ted Cord, and the Green Lantern GuyGardner, as all three of them embody the often
comedic vibe of this Justice League iteration.I've also included Elogated Man, as he was a
prominent member of both the Justice LeagueEurope and Super Buddies, and to include some true
international flavor, I'm including the duo ofFire and Ice, from Brazil and Norway, with Fire and

(33:23):
Ice powers respectively. For my seventh and finalmember, I decided to go with Shazam, who was not
only an original member, but his sisterMary-Marvel also had a presence on the Super
Buddies team. So again, my roster is Booster Gold,Blue Beetle, Green Lantern, Elogated Man, Fire,

(33:45):
Ice, and Shazam. I gotta say your team's historydidn't seem that much better, with multiple
iterations and closures and things like that.Wow, rude. I will say that the Justice League
International does seem to have a more distinctpersonality that separates it from the primary
Justice League. Yeah, it was definitely a muchmore comedic tone than the primary Justice League

(34:07):
team, which was much more serious. Well, I don'tthink the JLI is going to have much to laugh at as
they're getting their asses beat as we get into thespeculation here. I do want to state that the
pairings that we've decided for this matchup areBlue Beetle and Black Panther, Booster Gold and
Wonder Man, Green Lantern and War Machine, Fireand Tigra, Ice and Wasp, Elogated Man and

(34:29):
Quicksilver and Shazam and Hercules, which arepretty damn good pairings, I think. Yeah, I think
this should be good. In a world where fantasiescollide and heroes clash, one podcast network
rises above the rest. Prepare yourself for theultimate showdowns in comic books, video games,

(34:53):
movies and anime. The Dynamite Podcast Networkpresents Console Combat, where video game
legends brawl every Monday. Dynamic Duel, wherecomic book titans smash every Tuesday. Max
Destruction, where TV and action heroes battleevery Wednesday. And Cendro World, where anime
champions clash every Thursday. Join us as wespeculate on the matches and armed with the power

(35:17):
of mathematical simulations, discover who willemerge victorious. Visit dynamicpodcast.com
where we settle the debate and settle the score.Now that we got the team's histories and rosters
out of the way, let's speculate on how one of thethousands of simulated matches will go. The

(35:37):
winners determined by simulations, not ourspeculation, but it's fun to imagine how this
fight could play out. AJ and I.K., what are therules of our speculation? Environmental

(36:07):
statistics are considered in my simulations. Theteams must earn victory on their own merit.
Alright then, let's get into it. The JusticeLeague International and the West Coast
Avengers, me on the battlefield, who goes first?I'm gonna say I go first. I finally get to kick
things off with this Speedster character withQuicksilver. And Quicksilver starts off by just

(36:27):
running circles around the Justice League and hecreates this vortex that sucks all the year away
from all of the Justice League members. And heextinguishes fires, flames, and the Justice
League just passes out. No, I'm gonna say thatbefore everyone passes out, ice is going to freeze
the ground around them. Quicksilver to slip rightinto a giant green hand raising the middle finger

(36:53):
that was generated by Guy Gardner. And actually, abunch of giant green hands and fists are going to
erupt beneath the Avengers, swatting andslapping and punching them all across the
environment. Somebody saw Superman. Yeah, I did.Okay, so the Avengers are getting knocked around
by these giant green hands, but suddenly I'm gonnasay Green Lantern gets a glowing green dagger

(37:17):
blade right through his chest. Because BlackPanther used his agility to avoid the hand
constructs, and then he chucked a green Vibraniumenergy dagger at Green Lantern, and green means
it's set to stun. So Guy Gardner's stunned, hefalls forward, lands right on his face, and he's
passed out for the time being. And then War Machinejust starts unleashing his shoulder-mounted

(37:43):
minigun at Blue Beetle and Booster Gold, justtargeting between the two of them and turning them
into human Swiss cheese. Well, Booster Gold, youknow, he'll fire up his force field to protect
himself. And Blue Beetle, he's just gonna startdoing backflips to dodge the gunfire. And he's
gonna backflip onto a trapeze wire hanging belowhis bug ship, which is gonna quickly retract up and

(38:05):
pull him into the ship before it fires thiselectrified net onto War Machine, and that's
gonna pin him to the ground and just short-circuithis suit. So while War Machine is busy dealing with
that, Booster Gold is gonna turn his attention toWonder Man, and he's gonna blast him with an energy
beam from his gauntlet. Who said you get the bugship during this fight? Me! I did! It's Blue

(38:29):
Beetle! I got it in the proler match! No, that'sright, that's right. Okay, so Booster Gold shoots
Wonder Man with an energy beam? Yes. I'm gonna saybefore he gets that shot off, all of a sudden his arm
gets knocked away, and he misses. And he's like,what, what just happened? So he tries again with
his other hand, and that gets knocked away too bythis small beam. Booster has no idea what's

(38:51):
happening, but then all of a sudden he gets fuckingrocked in the jaw with an uppercut, and it's the
wasp. And he didn't see her because she had shrunkdown, and she used her stink blasts to knock
Booster's arms off his aim, and then she gave him aminiature sized uppercut, but still packed with
full-sized power. Oh, dank. Okay. Well,meanwhile, Shuzam and Hercules, they're

(39:14):
probably wrestling, and Shuzam is like, you'reHercules? I have all of your powers! And then some.
So with Hercules in a headlock, Shuzam's gonnayell out his name, and he's gonna electrocute
Hercules with Azusa's lightning. Except at thelast second, Hercules maneuvers out of the
headlock, and he lifts Shuzam above his head justas the lightning strike hits, which is gonna turn

(39:36):
Shuzam back into Billy Batson. And like, he didn'tknow this was gonna happen, he just thought he'd
use Shuzam as a shield, but with Shuzam turned backinto a kid, Hercules is gonna spin the kid around,
swinging him by his ankles, and then just let go.Billy like a discus over the horizon. Well, after
he threw Billy, I'm gonna say he didn't notice alightning strike in the distance where Billy was

(39:59):
thrown, and as Shuzam is racing back toward thebattle, fire and ice, meanwhile, are going to be
tag-teaming Tigra, just blasting her with bothwaves of fire and freezing hail. Well, wouldn't
the fire melt the hail, and then the melted hailwould put out the fire? No. So like, fire and ice are

(40:22):
just cancelling their attack out, like a couple ofdumbasses, and Tigra is gonna leap high up into the
air, like way out of their blasts, and she's gonnaland with a pounce right on top of fire, just
slashing her face right off, and taking her out ofthe match. Okay, here's the thing though, once
Tigra landed on fire, fire's whole body flamed uplike the human torch, so Tigra essentially just

(40:45):
sacrificed her body to eliminate fire, and withher badly burned, it's gonna leave her wide open
for ice to just freeze her solid for killing herbest friend. So Tigra's out now too. All right, but
Wonder Man saw that, and he's pissed off by that, sohe just flicks ice in the head, and now ice is out of

(41:08):
the match too. Wait, what? A flick? Yeah, WonderMan's like insanely strong, so like a flick from
Wonder Man is like getting hit with a sledgehammerto the dome, so yeah, ice is out. Okay, well while
that happened, Elongated Man noticedQuicksilver has, you know, recovered from the

(41:29):
start of the match, and so he's going to flattenhimself out along the ground of the battlefield,
and as Quicksilver is zipping around, once he runsover Elongated Man, that's when his trap is going
to spring, and he's folding his body aroundQuicksilver just suffocating him. Elongated
Man's not gonna be able to easily restrainQuicksilver, because Quicksilver, he's gonna

(41:52):
shake and vibrate to give himself some spacewithin Elongated Man's trap, kind of like a rubber
ball in a balloon type situation, and when he hasenough space, Quicksilver's gonna spin like a
cyclone with his arms out, and that's just likeputting Elongated Man in a blender. So Elongated
Man gets knocked around and twisted, andeventually he's gonna get flung away like a limp

(42:15):
noodle, and just be on the ground reeling fromgetting punched like a thousand times in like 10
seconds. And while he's recovering, War Machine,he reboots his armor from getting short circuited
by Blue Beetle's net, and he's gonna cut his way outof the net using a plasma cutter on his wrist, which
kind of looks like a welding tool. But at thatpoint, War Machine's gonna shoot Blue Beetle's

(42:40):
bug ship just right out of the air with a bunch ofmissiles fired from his arm-mounted rocket
launcher. So the bug ship gets hit, and it's gonnacrash to the ground and explode, which kills Blue
Beetle who's inside. Oh no, because like the bugship would be alerting Blue Beetle that the
missiles are coming, so Blue Beetle he'll ejectfrom the bug ship right before it gets hit by the

(43:03):
missiles, and as he's parachuting back to thebattlefield, he's actually going to control and
steer the crashing bug ship using controls and hisgloves into Black Panther, and that's gonna
obliterate him. Okay, okay. But as Blue Beetle isparachuting to the ground, all of a sudden this
sword comes flying out of nowhere through the airright at him, and it's the sword of Pellius, which

(43:28):
is Hercules Sword, Hercules threw it, and itsevers Blue Beetle's parachute cords, and he
falls to his death. Jeez. Okay, meanwhile BoosterGold, he's too distracted to notice his friend
Blue Beetle's death just now, because he's beenusing his future tech goggles to try and find and

(43:51):
track what hit him earlier, the wasp, and when hefinally pinpoints her buzzing around the
battlefield, he's gonna trap her in a tractorbeam, pull her right into his fist, and that's
where he's gonna crush her literally like a bug.Well she could just grow to get out of his fist. No,
no, because he uses his force field energy tocreate tractor beams, so she can't grow out of

(44:14):
that. Can't grow out of a force field? Right, it'slike a hard light energy bubble. Okay, uh, well War
Machine, he's using his armor's flamethrowers tojust ignite elongated man, and now elongated
man's out of this match. But no, it's not likeelongated man would just sit still long enough for
flamethrowers to take him out. As War Machine istrying to burn him to death, elongated man is

(44:39):
dodging and flipping and that's when Shazam isgonna zip over to War Machine and in a blur, he's
gonna yank off all of his weapons and armor beforeWar Machine can really do anything about it. And
with Rody standing there armorless, that's whenShazam's gonna grab him and just eat him right into
outer space. Jesus. Well, elongated man may beable to dodge flamethrowers, sure, but he's not

(45:05):
gonna dodge this sudden beam of ionic energy fromWonder Man who shoots it out of his eyes. So
elongated man gets two holes just punched throughhis head and now he's out of the match for real this
time. Okay, well you know who else is out of thematch? Quicksilver, because green lantern is
gonna generate glue all over the environmentfloor around Quicksilver and that's gonna slow

(45:27):
him down long enough for green lantern to justsnatch him with a giant pair of chopper cable
pliers and those are gonna be connected to a giantgreen battery which just fries Quicksilver.
Okay, but then, hey look Black Panther slashes hisway out of the rubble of the bug ship that crashed on
him. What? I mean he has vibranium mesh suit, youknow, that would just absorb the impact and it's

(45:53):
gonna like super charge him. So he slashes his wayout of the rubble and he has a reed on green
lantern's energy signature from his first attackagainst him. So he knows Green Lantern's
weakness, he knows to target the ring from hisKimoyo bead readout and while Guy is distracted,
frying Quicksilver, Black Panther leaps over andslashes off Green Lantern's ring with his claws

(46:17):
and before Guy can even react, Black Pantherstraight up unalives the guy with a kinetic
powered explosive kick right to his ribs justshattering them. Wait, Black Panther cut off
Guy's finger? Yeah, that was actually a good move.Sucky but good. Thanks. But Guy's ring is going to
seek out a new ring bearer and it's gonna choose theclosest most worthy hero and I'm gonna say that's

(46:43):
gonna be, who do I have left? Booster Gold andShazam? I'm gonna say it's Booster Gold. So I guess
he's Booster Green now with the ring and so he'sgonna trap Wonder Man in this futuristic battery
with cables attached to his suit and Booster Goldis going to absorb Wonder Man's ionic energy form

(47:04):
into his suit, powering it up so Wonder Man himselfis just dissipated and now charging up Booster
Green. That's crazy. So I have Black Panther andHercules left and Black Panther's going up
against Shazam which sounds kind of one-sided butlittle does Shazam know that Black Panther has

(47:25):
been recording this entire fight with his Kimoyobeads. So Black Panther slides under Shazam and
one of his beads acts like a speaker and it shoutsout in Billy's voice Shazam which is gonna call
down the lightning and it transforms Shazam backinto Billy again and just when Billy is like aw man
again that's when Black Panther nerve strikes thekid to put him down. It's child abuse man. So you

(47:52):
have Black Panther and Hercules left? Well my lastguy, Booster Green, he's now super charged with
ionic energy and he's gonna have literally noproblem power boosting and converting his suit's
internal time travel technology to easily snapthe two Marvel guys right out of the time stream.

(48:13):
What? Boom two birds with one stone and the end ofthis match. Can he do that? He can't transform his
technology with his power ring. He literally justdid but that's lame. I'm gonna say instead all of a
sudden Booster Green's ring turns purple. Itglows purple and cackles with this ionic energy

(48:35):
and it shoots out a Wonder Man construct exceptBooster can't control it because Wonder Man's
immortal you know he can't be contained so he'sback like he usually comes back in the comics and in
his ionic form he grabs Booster in this bear hugjust crushing his suit's batteries and Booster's
spine. So Wonder Man's the only one left standingand he also has this like cool purple lantern ring

(49:00):
to boot. I'm sorry what the fuck just happened? I'msaying that Wonder Man can't be trapped within
this green lantern ring. Whatever apparentlyWonder Man is now a violet lantern of love weird.
You know I think he'd go with that he's kind of apacifist anyway. I'm gonna say fuck that and he

(49:22):
actually could be contained in Booster's suitbecause it's from the future. You don't know what
kind of technology it is. It could contain ionicenergy. Then why didn't it? I'm saying it did
though. I guess we'll leave it there. Yeah let'sleave it there. We'll see a scenario happens
either Booster Gold is able to contain WonderMan's ionic energy form within his power battery

(49:45):
or Wonder Man can't be contained and snaps BoosterGold into. Let's go ahead and input the team stats,
run the simulations, and come back with a winner.A.J .9K hit it. Inputting data, running
calculations, processing results, simulationscomplete. Oh this was a close one. This is pretty
good. This is actually closer than the JusticeLeague versus Avengers duel that we did way back

(50:11):
when. That one was a little bit lopsided in favor ofthe Justice League but these guys were actually
paired up pretty damn well. Yeah I mean I had thehighest win rate of around 85% but I also had the
weakest character surprisingly who turned out tobe Ice. She won less than 20%. Yeah my guys weren't

(50:37):
too far off of that like War Machine won about threefourths of all of his matches and Tigro won just
under one fourth of all her matches. But regardingthe teams as a whole I gotta say the Justice League
International trounced the West Coast Avengerswhen it came to the category of range. Like you have
a lot of Blasty guys on your side with Booster Goldand Green Lantern of course Fire and Ice, Shazam

(51:02):
shoots lightning, Blue Beetle has his ownblaster, Long-Aided Mannequin stretch but like
guys on my side like Hercules and Tigra, WonderMan, and Quicksilver they barely had any range.
Yeah Wonder Man can shoot Ionic energy but it'srare. It's super rare super rare. The best thing
your team had going for it was actually strength.Yeah I mean we have heavy hitters like Hercules,

(51:27):
Wonder Man, War Machine, even Tigra can lift about10 tons. She's like Spider-Man level strength
whereas on your side you know elongated man's notthat strong neither are Fire and Ice neither is
Blue Beetle so the West Coast Avengers were able tolay the smack down in that regard. But were they
able to lay the smack down overall or were they theones who in fact got the smacking? Who do you think

(51:51):
came out on top? It's gonna be close but I'm rootingfor the Avengers because of course I am. Well I have
to say Instagram disagrees with you by a lot. 75% ofour poll takers voted in favor of the Justice
League International. Well that'sdisappointing. That's life get used to it. It's

(52:11):
full of disappointment for Marvel fans. Let's seeif they're right. AG9K the results please. Here
you are sir. All right the winner in the team duelbetween the Justice League International and the
West Coast Avengers is the West Coast Avengers.West side? That's right. West side is the best

(52:34):
side. Out of all the simulated matches between theteams the West Coast Avengers won 506 matches over
the JLI's 494. They only won 12 more than theJustice League? This is a coin toss then. If by coin
toss you mean the Justice League got that shitkicked out of them by the Avengers then yeah coin

(52:56):
toss. If this was any other day you guys would havelost. But not this day. Not this day. This is sweet
justice for the Avengers. The West Coast branchwas able to redeem the Avengers brand. They're
reclaiming the trophy from the Justice League andwe're just running victory laps all around the

(53:19):
fucking Justice League. I cannot even fathomthese results. Like there's no way the Avengers
would ever beat the Justice League. This is. I'msorry they just did by 12 whole matches. Like I feel
like I'm in an alternate reality right now. It'slike what's going on? Well let's be frank you
needed to be taken down off of your high horseJonathan after watching the Superman movie. Well

(53:40):
it's fine I'll just get back up on it after I'mgloating at the Fantastic Forest failure. Marvel
all day every day Justice League sucks. You suckpersonally and I want you to remember this
feeling. Already forgotten. But that does it forthis team dual AJ9K help close us out. Thanks for

(54:02):
listening to Dynamic Jewel. Visit the show'swebsite at dynamicjewel.com and follow us on
Instagram at dynamicjewel podcast. You cansupport the show on Patreon at patreon.com slash
dynamicjewel and joining a tier that works for youor by rating and reviewing dynamic dual on Apple
podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or on our website.Don't send Joe world and console combat. In our

(54:31):
next episode of course we will be reviewing thelatest MCU film to hit theaters the Fantastic Four
first steps. Not looking forward to it. Not hypedat all. I hope it bombs and it's already projected
to open less than Superman which is freakingawesome. No one can predict the future but that
does it for this episode. We want to give a bigthanks to our team. Josh Liner, Mike Williams,

(55:07):
Oscar Galvez and Paul Graves for helping make thispodcast possible. And we'll talk to you guys next
week. Up up and away true believers.