New Gods vs Eternals

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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This is a DynaMic Network Podcast. The holidaysare just a few weeks away and if you haven't started

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shopping yet, this is your sign. Head toOldGlory.com, the ultimate store for superhero
fans. They've got officially licensed Marvel andDCTs, hoodies and gifts perfect for every hero,
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Duel at checkout. That's D-U-E-L. Don't waituntil the last minute. Your favorite designs ship

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fast but they won't last forever. Start yourholiday shopping today at OldGlory.com and make
this season heroic. Hi and welcome to the DynamicDuel Podcast, a weekly show where we review

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superhero films and debate the superioritybetween Marvel and DC by comparing their
characters in stat based battle simulations. I'mMarvelist Joe and I'm his twin brother Johnny DC.
And in this episode we're going to find out whowould win in a fight between the new gods from DC and
the Eternals from Marvel. And one of our final teamduels for this podcast, we knew we wanted to go all

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out and pit the two most formidable teams againsteach other. I don't know if the Eternals is
Marvel's most formidable team but they arecertainly up there. They basically have all the
powers. So I could totally see the new gods gettingdog walked in this matchup. That is the stupidest
thing I've ever heard. No way the new gods arelosing this. They are literal gods. And the

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Eternals were once worshipped as gods. So thereyou go. Before we get into that matchup though
guys, we're going to break down the latest comicbook movie news that came out this past week of
which actually were not because there is no news.But as always we list our segment times in our
episode description so feel free to check out theshow notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular
topic. Our artificially intelligent duelsimulator AJ9K has a quick message for our

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listeners so listen up. Why hello there. Do youwant even more from this podcast? Then become a
part of the dynamic duel community on Patreonwhere you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic
2.0 tier gives you access to our Discord chatserver. The fantastic 4.0 tier gives you two bonus
episodes each month and the X-Force tier makes youan executive producer of this show. Lastly, the

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Dynamite podcast network tier lets you createyour own podcast using this Monte Carlo
simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you developyour show, provide graphic support and
consultation and get you simulation results.Pitch the twins your ideas via email at
dynamicdualpodcastatgmail.com. Check it out atpatreon.com slash dynamicdual. Pip pip cheerio.

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Thanks AJ9K and thanks to everyone who supportsthe podcast including Travis Herndon and the
Kamacho twins who we are very late in wishing happybirthday. Yeah, if I could give Gilly and Travis a
get for Marvel, I would give Gilly Hawkeye set oftrick arrows and I would give Travis Mr. Fantastic

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stretch powers. That is random as fuck. I'm gonnasay that since all three of these guys are twins,
since you know we have the running joke that TravisHerndon is the twin of Travis Bailey, I'm going to
give all of them the power of the Wonder Twins.Which one? Xan or Jan or whatever her name is. The

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power to turn into any animal or the power to turninto any water form. Let's see we'll make Scotty
Xan, we'll make Gilly Jaina and we'll make TravisGleek. So still the power of stretching, except he
could just stretch his tail. Yes, it's his tail.Happy birthday guys. Be sure to tune into the other

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shows and the Dynamite Podcast Network this weekincluding the Console Combat Podcast where hosts
John and Dean simulate battles between popularvideo game characters. And yesterday's episode,
they celebrated two years of the Console CombatPodcast, which is a huge feat for those guys.
Congrats to them. Go ahead and check out theiranniversary special. Over on the Max Destruction

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Podcast hosts Scotty and Gilly, pet your favoriteaction heroes from film and television against
each other. The Macho Twins are returning thisweek with a Christmas duel right out the gate. Jack
Skellington versus The Grinch. And on the SanjoWorld Podcast hosts Zachary Hepburn speculates
on fights between fan favorite anime and mangacharacters. In his next episode, Zach is

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revealing who'd win between Shigyo Kageyama, akaMob from Mob Psycho 100 and Tatsumaki the tornado
of terror from One Punch Man. Visitdynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show
notes to listen to all of the shows in the DynamitePodcast Network. But with that out of the way.
Quick to the No Prize. A No Prize is an award thatMarvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the

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Dynamic Duel No Prize, is a digital award that wepost on Instagram for the person that we feel gave
the best answer to our question of the week. Lastweek, we asked you guys, what was your favorite
story within the Batman Deadpool crossover comicand why? And this is coming off of DC publishing the
Batman Deadpool crossover comic, of which therewere a lot of stories, including, of course,

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Batman Deadpool. There was Harley Quinn Hulk,Nightwing Wolverine, Miss Marvel and Static and
Dr. Strange and Constantine. We received a grandtotal of one answer this week from Steve Wozniak,
co-founder of Apple. He said. This is the Woz, notWozniak. Just simply the Woz. And my favorite part

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of that comic book is simply Batman. Why doesBatman rocks? He's actually the only thing in DC
that rocks because Marvel is better. Marvel isamazing. And that's all I got to say to that. And
Steve Wozniak's right. Batman is better thanMarvel. Well, what he actually said was that
Marvel was better than all of DC. It was just thatBatman was better than anything else DC had.

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That's not what I heard. Well, clean your fuckingears then. Because the Woz does not lie. So the Woz
gets this week's No Prize. His name is not actuallySteve Wozniak. It's Josh Wozmont. That's not what
I heard. Congrats, Josh, for winning this week'sNo Prize. If you, the listener, want a shot at
winning your own No Prize, stay tuned to later onthis episode when we'll be asking another

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question of the week. And now that that's done. Onto the question of the week. Guys, we have
completed all of the review episodes before thefinal episode of this podcast in mid January.
There's nothing else to review because Wonder Mangot pushed back. So with that said, what review of

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ours, what review episode of Dynamic Duel did youget the most out of? Whether you thought it was
funny or insightful or way off base, let us knowwhat stood out to you. But that does it for the

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upfront portion of this episode. Let's get on toour main event where we find out who would win
between the DC team of the new gods and the Marvelteam of the Eternals. All right, the new gods

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versus the Eternals. Both of these teams aremembers of a race of godlike beings. So this will be
quite the clash of Titans as we're actually theEternals who live on Saturn's moon of Titan are
called Titans. And that's actually where Thanosis from. He's actually one of the Titans. Of
course, the Eternals had their own movie, whichsucked. The movie did not suck. It was entirely

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different from everything else that Marvel hadput out. Not in a bad way. I just don't think it was
what people were expecting. Being a big fan of thelore of the Eternals, you could definitely listen
to our review and hear how I actually enjoyed thefilm for what it was. Wait, so remind me, is Thanos a
robot person like they are? No, well, he's a memberof a race of beings that were created by the

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Celestials. They're not robots, though. Thismatchup, though, is probably going to be similar
to our Darkseid's elite versus Thanos's BlackOrder duel that we did a few months ago. Right,
because the new gods are essentially the goodcounterparts to Darkseid's elite, who are also
new gods just from Apocalypse, as opposed to NewGenesis. There's a lot of lore surrounding both of

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these teams. Actually, both the new gods and theEternals are creations of comic book legend Jack
Kirby. I believe Jack Kirby first created the newgods for DC and then kind of carried them on back at
Marvel with the Eternals, who are kind of thespiritual successors of the new gods, I would say.
Right, yeah, Eternals is a Jack Kirby ripoff of aJack Kirby DC creation. Hey, you can't rip off

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yourself. That's fair. Can't wait to get into thisduel matchup. First, to explain the methodology
behind our duels, let's go to our sentient duelsimulator, Alfred Jarvis 9000. AJ9K, tell our
listeners how you go about determining a winner inour duel matchups. Yes, of course, sir. The way I
determine a winner between the two teams is byrunning 1000 Monte Carlo simulations between

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every character on each team using theirstatistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a
probabilistic model used to determine outcomesthrough random sampling. In this case, I
randomize the statistics along a normaldistribution as a way to simulate the many
variables that can occur during battle. The statparameters are based on the official Marvel power
grid from which the DC characters statistics areextrapolated. Additional stat categories are

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included such as range, damage potential,versatility and perception in order to create a
more detailed and accurate simulation. Theresults of the 49000 simulations provide a
percentage of wins for each character on bothteams. The team with the higher average win rate is
declared the victor as they have a higherprobability to win any given battle. In an

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equitable pairing, neither team should win 100%of the matches. The comic book stories have shown
that there's even a way for Batman to defeatSuperman, so the confidence rate of my method
falls in line with the precedents that have beenestablished in the source material. My
mathematical simulations are withoutsubjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole
consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated fordetermination of the winner. Thanks AJ and IK.

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Before we run the simulations though, we like tobreak down each team's histories and rosters
before improvising a scenario on how we imagineone of the thousands of simulations would play out
beat for beat. And I believe it's my turn to go firstwith the Marvel team's backstory. So let me tell
you all about the Eternals. About a million yearsago, a host of cosmic giants called Celestials

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visited prehistoric Earth and experimented onearly Homo erectus. Their work produced three
branches of humanity. The long-lived Eternals,the unstable Deviants and ordinary humans, which
were seated with the potential to becomesuperpowered mutants later in evolution. The
Eternals were engineered to channel immensecosmic energy as custodians of the Celestial's

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mankind experiment, while the Deviants warpedgenetics drove them to dominate and terrorize
early humans. As the Eternals multiplied, theybuilt the city of Olympia in the mountains of
Greece. Their power and proximity to the Olympiangods led ancient Greeks to confuse the two races,
and some Eternals even impersonated gods as partof a treaty, most notably Azura, whose name was

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changed to Athena, so she could serve as theearthly Athena before mortal worshipers. An
ideological rift soon tore the young race ofEternals apart. Uranus, brother of the peaceful
scientist, Chronos, believed the Eternalsshould conquer Earth. Civil war erupted, Chronos
prevailed, and Uranus and his fathers were exiledinto space. They founded a colony on the planet

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Uranus, where their presence attracted the alienKree. When a Kree armada destroyed their ship, the
survivors crashed on Saturn's moon Titan andcreated a new colony there. Back on Earth, Chronos
continued his experiments with cosmic energyuntil a catastrophic accident disintegrated his
body and permanently awakened his full power.With Chronos, now a disembodied entity, the

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Eternals merged into a unimined and choseChronos' son Xurus as the new prime Eternal, while
his other son Alars departed the planet to avoidanother schism. Alars traveled to Titan and found
the first Eternals colony there devastated withonly one survivor named Sui-san. Together, they
rebuilt Titan's society under the guidance of theartificial intelligence Isaac. Alars and

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Sui-san's children would define Titan's future,giving birth to Aros, a carefree adventurer, and
Thanos, a mutant Eternal whose deviant-likeappearance and obsession with death would one day
lead him to massacre most of Titan's populationand to become one of the universe's greatest
threats. You can learn more about Thanos in hisduel against Darkseid. The survivors of Titan

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rebuilt the colony yet again and its Eternalsrepeatedly aided Earth's heroes against Thanos,
while Aros, eventually known as Starfox, leftTitan to join the Avengers and roam the cosmos as a
hero. Back on Earth, Xurus consolidated EternalSociety in Olympia, near a gateway to the Olympian
God's realm. His daughter, Athena, grew into ascholar and warrior, often acting as the God's

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representative. Over millennia, she becameentangled with Crow, a deviant warlord who first
spared her life in ancient Babylon. Their long,uneasy romance produced secret twin children,
whom Athena hid inside a human surrogate to beraised as ordinary mortals, even as she continued
to command Eternals in battle against deviantarmies. Other Eternals similarly wove

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themselves into human legend. Icarus helpedshepherd humans during ancient cataclysms and
later guided a refugee ship to safety in storiesremembered as the tale of Noah's Ark. Centuries
later, while fighting deviance in Greece, hemarried a human woman and fathered his son Icarus.
The boy died when Mechanical Wings' father builtcarried him too high into the atmosphere, and in

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grief, the Eternal took his son's name. Makari,another Eternal of Olympia, was fascinated by
speed and technology. Under various aliases, hetaught writing, carried messages for early
civilizations, and inspired myths of swift gods,later operating openly in the 20th century as the
speedster Hurricane and then Mercury. Cerseistood apart from her kin by fully embracing

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humanity. A fourth generation Eternal born inOlympia to Helios and Percy, she delighted in art,
magic, and mortal company, appearing acrosshistory as a performer and benefactor in
legendary courts and cities. In the modern era,after helping repel a major deviant assault on New
York, Cersei lived as a Manhattan socialite,befriending several Avengers and ultimately

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joined the team herself, entering a complicatedromance with the Black Knight that later tied into
her struggle with an eternal mental illnesscalled Maud Wirie. You can learn more about Cersei
in her duel against Firestorm. Humanity's firstbroad exposure to the Eternals as a people came
during the arrival of the Celestial's fourthhost. Anticipating their return, Xurus

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stationed Icarus in an ancient city in thePeruvian Andes to awaken Ajax, a priestly Eternal
who had chosen to sleep between Celestial visits.With Ajax revived, the Eternals rushed to prepare
for the Celestial's descent and clashed withdeviant plots to turn humanity against the
towering judges. The Eternals merged into aunimined to augment the Asgardian destroyer

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armor in a desperate attack that failed to sway theCelestial's. The aftermath, the Celestial's
spared Earth, destroyed the deviant ruling classand left Xurus dead, prompting many Eternals to
depart the planet while a smaller factionremained under Thena and then Icarus. In the
modern age, eternal deviant tensions continuedas the Lemurian deviant priest lord Gar sought

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Celestial power. Thena, who had once shelteredthe deviant gladiators from Lemuria's brutal
culling rituals, found herself torn between Crowand her responsibilities as the new prime Eternal
on Earth. The strain left her vulnerable to amental brain-mind that Crow had implanted in her
mind and her increasingly erratic decisions ledto Icarus eventually challenging and replacing

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her as the prime Eternal. As the superhero eraunfolded, Cersei, Gilgamesh, and Starfox all
served as Avengers, bringing eternal powerdirectly into Earth's most famous team.
Gilgamesh, long known as the Forgotten One for hisearlier interference in human history, briefly
fought alongside Earth's heroes before GrievousInjury sent him back to Olympia. During this

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period, Cersei's mental instability worsenedand the Eternals bound her mind to the Black Knight
in a soul bond known as a Ganjosen, untanglingtheir lives until the onslaught crisis scattered
the heroes again. You can learn more about theBlack Knight in his duel against Amethyst. The
Eternals' understanding of themselves changedcompletely when the childlike trickster Eternal

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called Sprite rebelled against his unendingexistence. Using stolen Eternal technology and
the dormant dreaming celestial deep in theEarth's crust, Sprite rewrote reality so that the
Eternals became ordinary humans with fabricatedhistories and no knowledge of their true nature.
Makari lived as a medical student, Mark Curry,Cersei as a party planner, Thena as a Stark

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Enterprise scientist with a husband and youngson, Faistos as an engineer in Sweden, and Icarus
as the mysterious Ike Harris, who aloneremembered fragments of the truth. Their reunion
at a European diplomatic party triggered thereturn of their powers and set them on a path to
restore their memories. Icarus reestablishedOlympia as their base, while Makari became the

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chosen communicator for the awakened dreamingcelestial. The celestial revealed that every
seated world receives 100 Eternals and 100Deviants and that the Celestials stand ready to
scour a planet if deviant corruption outweighseternal guidance, forcing the Eternals to
confront not just Deviants but also theCelestials' scouting efforts. As they completed

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the task of reawakening their scattered kin, theEternals debated their role toward humanity,
whether to rule, protect, or stand apart, andultimately chose distance, even as individuals
like Cersei continued to live among mortals. Thatuneasy equilibrium shattered when a corrupted,
final host of Dark Celestials descended on Earth.When Iron Man and Doctor Strange saw answers from

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the Eternals in the mountains of Greece, theydiscovered almost all of the Eternals dead by
their own hands. Icarus lived long enough toexplain that the Eternals had learned a final,
devastating truth, that they had never beendestined as noble guardians of humanity, but as
caretakers meant to defend the Celestial's trueinterest in the human race. This revelation drove

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them into madness and suicide, seemingly endingthe Eternals saga on Earth. However, Celestial
Resurrection technology eventually restoredthe Eternals once more, to live in a world that no
longer clearly needed or trusted them. In this newage, they grappled with their manufactured
purpose and renewed threats from Thanos himself,who targeted Earth's Eternals on the principle

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that only death should be truly eternal. After theResurrection, the Eternals discovered that each
revival by the machine killed a random human,shattering their moral certainty and dividing
them between those who wanted to end the system andthose who accepted it. Thanos returned, seized
control of the Resurrection machine, unawarethat the psychic, Eternal Druig had implanted a

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failsafe designed to destroy him. Thanos used hisbrief rule to eliminate rivals until Druig's trap
activated, seemingly killing him and furtherdestabilizing Eternal Society. Druig then
claimed leadership as the Primeternal andlabeled mutants as excess deviation, launching
an assault on the mutant island nation of Krakowaand unleashing the imprisoned warlord Uranus for

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one hour to devastate Krakowa's counterpart,Arrakko, on Mars. You can learn more about Krakowa
and Arrakko in Krakowa's duel against Danny theStreet. The resulting crisis pushed Ajax and
Makari to resurrect the Progenitor Celestial forguidance, but the Progenitor instead judged
Earth unworthy and threatened globaldestruction. The Progenitors' defeat ended the

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conflict but forced the Eternals to confront thecost of their immortality and the devastation
carried out in their name, leaving their peoplefractured and directionless. That's the
Eternals backstory. For the seven-member rosterin this team duel against the new gods, I'm going
with the following seven Eternals. Cersei,Icarus, Thena, Makari, Faistos, Gilgamesh, and

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Starfox. All the Eternals have essentially thesame power set of immortality, near
invulnerability, flight, increased strengthand speed, regenerative healing, telepathy,
telekinesis, cosmic energy projection,teleportation, illusion casting,
shapeshifting, molecular reconstruction, andmatter transmutation. However, through

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training and discipline, many Eternals hone aspecific aspect or specialty of their abilities.
Cersei specializes in matter transmutation,Icarus in cosmic energy projection, Thena in
weapons and combat, Faistos in engineering,Gilgamesh in strength and durability, and
Starfox in empathokinesis, meaning he can affectthe emotions of others. They're all at least

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moderately gifted and intellect having lived forthousands of years. And that's the Eternals. To
reiterate my team is Cersei, Icarus, Thena,Makari, Faistos, Gilgamesh, and Starfox. Why did
you decide to go with Starfox over Druig? That's agood question. So Druig was in the movie, but I

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always thought of Thanos' brother Starfox, whoactually was also in the Eternals movie in the end
credit scene played by Harry Styles. I alwaysthought of him as more of a prominent Eternals
character with his ability of empathokinesis. Ilargely saw Druig's telepathy as unnecessary
because I could get the same effect of quoteunquote mind control using Starfox. Gotcha. I do

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think it's pretty lame that they all essentiallyhave the same powers. That's a pretty impressive
power set. I don't think that's lame for me. I thinkit's, yeah, for sure lame for the new gods because
they're going to get their ass beat. Basically theEternals have all the powers. Sure, a lot of them
specialize in some abilities at the expense ofother abilities, but you're going to have a real

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hard time dealing with the Eternals versatility.Maybe, maybe it won't matter. We'll see. Let me get
into the new gods backstory. Long ago, before timeas it is now understood, the cosmos was ruled by a
pantheon of beings known as the Old Gods, who wageda catastrophic war amongst themselves on the
world of Urgrund. The conflict culminated in thecataclysmic event known as Ragnarok, which tore

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Urgrund asunder. From its destruction rose twodiametrically opposed worlds, Apocalypse, a
smoldering furnace of tyranny and suffering, andNew Genesis, a verdant realm of peace and
enlightenment. These twin worlds occupied thesphere of the gods and were populated by a new race
of beings, immortal, evolved, and godlike. Theycalled themselves the New Gods. Apocalypse came

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under the dominion of the malevolent dark side,who ruled with absolute cruelty. New Genesis was
led by the wise warrior, Isiah, who becameHighfather after communing with the mysterious
cosmic force known as the Source. Highfathertransformed the floating city of Supertown into
the capital of New Genesis and established aculture built on peace, wisdom, and divine

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ascension. But tensions between the two worldsescalated into a devastating war after
Darkseid's uncle Steppenwolf murdered Isiah'swife, Avaya. In retaliation, Isiah slew
Steppenwolf and ignited a war between Apocalypseand New Genesis that threatened to consume the
universe. Seeking a temporary end to theviolence, the pact between New Genesis and

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Apocalypse. Highfather and Darkseid agreed toexchange their sons as wards. Orion, son of
Darkseid, was sent to be raised in New Genesisunder Highfather's guidance, while
Highfather's own son, later named Scott Free, wasconsigned to the brutal orphanages of Granny
Goodness on Apocalypse. Though the exchangeforced an uneasy truce, hostilities resumed when

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Darkseid set his sights on Earth, believing itsinhabitants collectively held fragments of the
elusive anti-life equation, a formula capable ofeliminating free will throughout the universe.
The renewed war was fought not only across thestars, but also on Earth, where the new gods allied
with heroes such as Superman to repel Apocalypticincursions. In times, Scott Free escaped

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Apocalypse and returned to New Genesis as themaster escape artist Mr. Miracle, joined by a
fellow fugitive and formidable warrior, BigBarda. You could learn more about Inher Duel
against Ronan the Accuser. Orion, despite hisapocalyptic lineage, embraced the values of New
Genesis and became its fiercest defender, oftenfighting alongside the radiant warrior,

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Lightray. You could learn more about Orion and hisduel against the Silver Surfer. Both Orion and
Lightray led numerous campaigns againstApocalypse's forces, including brutal battles
in the fire pits of Armageddo and the skies aboveEarth. To bolster their efforts against
Darkseid, Highfather supported the emergence ofthe Forever People, a team of young new gods

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empowered to summon the mighty Infinity Man, whowas secretly Drax, Highfather's brother, and the
original intended heir to Apocalypse beforeDarkseid's rise. Even the lower caste of New
Genesis, represented by the brave bug warriorForager, rose to prominence during this time,
proving vital in numerous conflicts and bridgingthe social divide between Supertown and the

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insect colonies below. Through his wonder staffand communion with the Source, Highfather
presided over battles not just of strength but ofcosmic consequence. When Darkseid sought to
breach the Source Wall and harness the Source forhimself, Highfather assembled the gods of other
Pantheons, including Zeus and Odin, to form acomposite being known as the One. Together they

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entered the Source to stop cosmic collapse causedby the God Wave, a universal surge of divine
energy. Highfather perished in the effort,sacrificing himself to protect reality, though
his essence remained one with the Source. AfterHighfather's death, his mantle was offered to his
son, Scott Free, who declined the role, leading itto pass instead to Tachyon, a human imbued with

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Source energy to guide New Genesis. Even in death,Highfather continued to appear to others as part
of the cosmic quintessence, overseeing eventsthat threatened reality. The New Gods suffered
their darkest hour when the sentient Sourceturned against its creations, determined to
usher in a more perfect fifth world The sourceemployed the Infinity Man to eliminate the flawed

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gods of the fourth world. One by one, the new godsfell, until only Darkseid and his son Orion
remain. In the final conflict, Orion tore out hisfather's heart, delivering justice in the name of
the fallen. The source merged Apocalypse and NewGenesis into a single world, signaling the end of
the fourth world. In the wake of theirdestruction, the new gods were reborn in the realm

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of Earth 5.1, reconstructed by the monitor NixUhtun after the events of the final crisis. You can
learn more about the monitor in his duel againstthe Watcher. As Darkseid's essence attempted to
conquer Earth from within the body of MetropolisDetective Dan Turpin, the remaining new gods
returned in more evolved forms. Metron, BlackRacer, and others reemerged to guide and protect

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creation. With the fall of Darkseid, the gods ofNew Genesis resumed their stewardship, their
spirits reborn to guide a new age. After thetimeline-altering Flashpoint event, the
history of the new gods was rewritten. In this newcontinuity, Ixaya and Uxas, or Darkseid, were
once peasants on the world of Urgrund, ruled by thedestructive Old Gods. When the war among the

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deities erupted, Uxas manipulated the conflict,stole their powers, and transformed into the
being known as Darkseid. Ixaya pleaded with thegods for salvation, and one dying god gifted him
the power of the Alpha Effect. Reborn asHighfather, Ixaya battled his brother in a clash
that destroyed their world. From the ruins, Ixayaforged the floating city of Supertown and

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rechristened his people, the new gods of NewGenesis. Though Highfather led with strength and
resolve, the devastation wrought by war hardenedhim. The death of his second wife at Darkseid's
hands reignited hostilities, culminating in asecond pact. As before, Orion was sent to New
Genesis, and Highfather's infant son, Scott, wasgiven to Apocalypse. Though the truce held, it did

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little to prevent Darkseid's continued conquestof the Multiverse, and Highfather became
increasingly authoritarian in his governance.Years later, as new threats emerged, Highfather
sought to end the eternal conflict once and for allby acquiring the Life Equation, an antithesis to
Darkseid's Anti-Life Equation. To that end, hedispatched the Council of Aids to retrieve the

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emotional spectrum rings from the Lantern Coresand captured the White Lantern Kyle Raynor, who
you learn more about in his duel against Null.Though Highfather claimed his actions were
noble, he used the Life Equation to transforminnocent beings into soldiers in his war,
including the citizens of the planet Moos. Whenconfronted by the Lantern Cores and his own

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people, Highfather recognized his descent intotyranny. In a moment of clarity, he relinquished
the Life Equation and sought redemption. Hehelped save New Genesis from the revived Source
Titans, acknowledging the need to rebuild boththe trust of his people and the shattered order of
their society. Darkseid meanwhile perished inbattle against the Justice League, consumed by

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the power of Anti-Life. His disappearancecreated a cosmic imbalance that the universe
attempted to correct by giving rise to a new God ofEvil, an emergent infant named Kamal. Orion,
tasked by New Genesis to destroy the child beforehe could awaken his godhood, found himself torn
between duty and conscience. Refusing to carryout the execution, Orion defied the edicts of

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Supertown and fled with the child, triggeringpolitical upheaval across the realm. In the wake
of Orion's defection, an alien race known as theNektari, who were descendants of the forgotten
old god Nektar and former slaves of Apocalypse,emerged from the shadows of the cosmos and
launched a genocidal crusade against allfourth-world gods. The Nektari declared

(33:11):
themselves heirs to the divine legacy lost in thefall of the old gods and viewed both New Genesis and
Apocalypse as aberrations born from blasphemy.Their assault culminated in the destruction of
Supertown, forcing the surviving new gods intoexile. In the battle's final moments, Lightray
was slain defending the celestial bridge fromNektari warships, his body igniting into radiant

(33:36):
flame visible across the multiverse. Scatteredand wounded, the remnants of the new gods
established a refugee fleet shepherded byMetron's Mobius chair across forgotten star
lanes in search of safe harbor. Big Barda and Mr.Miracle led rescue operations to salvage
survivors from the ruins of Supertown, whileforagers people, long overlooked, rose to the

(34:00):
front lines as guerrilla fighters. Highfather,stripped of his capital and humbled by war,
governed from a fractured command, relying onTachyon to maintain communion with the source.
Orion, now a fugitive among his own people, raisedKamal in hiding, seeking to guide the child away
from the shadow of Darkseid. The war with theNektari marked the twilight of the fourth world,

(34:24):
as the new gods fought not for dominion or dogma,but for survival. And that's the new gods history
so far. Now for my seven-member roster, I'm goingwith Orion, Mr. Miracle, Big Barda, Light Ray,
Metron, Forager, and Becca. Orion is Darkseid'sson, raised in Supertown, a brutal warrior with

(34:45):
superhuman strength, speed, durability, and thepower of the Astro Force, an explosive energy he
projects from his harness in battle. Mr. Miracleis the universe's greatest escape artist, armed
with a sentient mother box computer and high-techgadgets that let him fly, phase, and break through
any trap or barrier. Big Barda is a fiercefrontline combatant raised by granny goodness of

(35:10):
apocalypse, wielding her indestructible megarod and enhanced armor. Light Ray is a radiant and
optimistic warrior who manipulates solarenergy, granting him light speed, flight, laser
precision blasts, and blinding luminescence.Metron is an aloof observer of reality who
traverses time, space, and dimensions with hisMobius chair, granting him unlimited knowledge,

(35:35):
teleportation, and technological control.Forager is a swift and agile warrior from New
Genesis' bug colony, Cast, fighting withenergy-based stingers, mines, and exo-armor.
And for the seventh member of my roster, I'm goingwith Orion's wife, Becca, the goddess of love
capable of inspiring overwhelming devotion inothers while wielding advanced New Genesis

(35:58):
technology, including a phase-shifting suitthat grants her invisibility and intangibility.
I do want to say that I originally wanted to useHighfather in this duel, but Joseph's a big fat
cheater who would not allow me to do so. No, I mean,I'm not using Mentor or Zurus or anything like
that. So yeah, you can't use Highfather. He's justtoo powerful, I think, for this group. So to

(36:21):
reiterate, my seventh member roster consists ofOrion, Mr. Miracle, Big Barda, Light Ray, Metron,
Forager, and Becca. Yeah, it's a good team. I likehow the history of the New Gods is no less
convoluted than the history of the Eternals. Iactually think it got better with the
post-Flashpoint retcon. It's not Jack Kirby, butit is pretty cool. Yeah, the Eternals got

(36:46):
retconned a few times as well, even by Neil Gaiman.But I think really actually the movie helped
solidify some of those ideas that Jack Kirbyoriginally had, and they've since brought some of
those concepts into the comic book universe aswell. The holidays are just a few weeks away, and if

(37:56):
you haven't started shopping yet, this is yoursign. Head to oldglory.com, the ultimate store
for superhero fans. They've got officiallylicensed Marvel and DCTs, hoodies, and gifts
perfect for every hero, sidekick, or villainlover on your list. Order now and get 15% off
anything when you use the promo code dual atcheckout. That's D-U-E-L. Don't wait until the

(38:20):
last minute. Your favorite designs ship fast, butthey won't last forever. Start your holiday
shopping today at oldglory.com and make thisseason heroic. Now that we've got the team's
histories and rosters out of the way, let'sspeculate on how one of the simulated matches will
go. The winners determined by simulations, notthe speculation, but it's fun to imagine how the

(38:43):
fight could play out. A.J. and I.K., what are therules of our speculation? Well, I should say there
are no rules, other than the teams have no priorknowledge of the other going into the fight. All
they are aware of starting out is that the otherside is a threat that needs to be eliminated. For
the speculation, the groups will beginapproximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript

(39:04):
environment that will have no bearing on the matchitself, as no environmental statistics are
considered in my simulations. The teams must earnvictory on their own merit. Alright then, let's
get into it. The new gods and the Eternals meet onthe battlefield who goes first. I'm actually
going to say that Lightray starts off the matchsince he's the fastest one out of both of the teams

(39:26):
and he's going to begin by emitting this blindingflash of light that is going to blind all of the
Eternals and that's going to allow Orion tounleash this wide astrophors blast against the
entire team while they're trying to blink thelight out of their eyes. So they're all just
basically destroyed from the get go. Okay, butEternals, I mean they have eyes that can adapt to

(39:50):
brightness and darkness better than humans. Solike this flash of light by Lightray, it doesn't
affect them more than it would like a normal humanlooking at a bright light bulb. So not too bad. You
know, like they witness Orion about to unleash hisastrophors. So Cersei is going to construct a wall
shielding them that's made out of pure diamond andMakari, you know, my resident speedster, she's

(40:14):
going to phase through the wall and straight uppinball herself among the new gods, just you know,
karate chopping some of them in the head, kickingothers in the chest and like judo tossing at least
one of them. But like for sure knocking down eachone of the new gods on their ass. A diamond wall
wouldn't be much of a shield against theastrophors, but sure, we'll say a stand's long

(40:35):
enough for Makari to get through it before you knowit becomes diamond dust, essentially. Luckily
enough for the new gods, though, I'm going to saythat the first one Makari approaches happens to be
Becca, the new goddess of love, who is constantlyradiating empathic waves that force those in
proximity to her to fall in love with her. So whileMakari suddenly becomes smitten with her, Big

(41:00):
Barda is going to use her Mega Rod as like this jet tolaunch herself straight into the biggest guy on
your team, Gilgamesh, and she's just going topummel him with her rod. I don't know why that
sounds gross, but it does. But Gilgamesh, likehe's so fucking strong, he's going to straight up
catch Big Barda's Mega Rod as she's like bringingit down on him, and he's going to just snap it like a

(41:25):
twig before feeding one of the broken ends to her,just like busting her right in the face. Then
Thena, just out of thin air, she conjures a Mega Rodof her own, except it's going to be three times as
long and twice as girthy, and it also has a blade atthe end, like a spear, and she uses it to fire a blast
at Barda that knocks Barda off of Gilgamesh. Okay,first of all, the Mega Rod is apocalyptic in

(41:50):
technology. There's no way Gilgamesh breaks it,bends it, maybe, but you know, a Baren rod is
nothing to be ashamed of, you know. Barda justangles it slightly when she uses it, and she's
going to use it to counter Thena's blast with one ofher own. And because Mr. Miracle saw Thena try to
attack his wife, he's going to get between them andwhip out his multi-cube that he's going to use to

(42:15):
fire this unbreakable net around Thena, whichpins her to the ground. Thena would just teleport
out of the net. So no big deal there. Faistos isgoing to use his Warhammer to smash Mr. Miracle's
multi-cube, and then he's going to throw out agadget that ensnares Mr. Miracle in this, like,
intricate trap. It kind of looks like a goldenfour-dimensional clock with, like, these gears

(42:41):
that distort time and make whoever is trappedinside of it go back in time with every motion Mr.
Miracle makes. So it's basically impossible toescape from. Well, I wouldn't say that. It just
means he needs to break out of it in one motion. Andthat's going to be easy. He will use his mother box
to generate a boom tube around him, and that'sgoing to allow him to escape the trap by falling

(43:06):
into a boom tube. Meanwhile, Forager is going todouse Faistos and his hammer with a stream of acid
from his acid pod on his wrist, and that's going todisintegrate him. Except Cersei just turns that
acid into clone midair before it lands on Faistos.So all Forager did was make Faistos smell like a

(43:28):
suave motherfucker. That's when Icarus justflies right through Forager, turning him into,
like, this cockroach smear on the battlefield.Okay, but actually Icarus is just going to bounce
right off of Forager's bug shield that he waswearing on his back. So, ha ha. We'll say Forager
does get smashed into the ground, but you know,he's pretty resilient, so he'll be fine.

(43:51):
Meanwhile, Metron is going to catch Icarus in atractor beam and teleport him near Becca. So now
she's in control of both Makari and Icarus, andbecause they're under her thrall, they're going
to start attacking the other Eternals at superfast sonic speed. Okay, except when Icarus and

(44:13):
Makari try and attack Starfox, he gets them underhis thrall, so they don't want to hurt him or his
teammates the rest of the Eternals. And thenStarfox is going to extend his apathokinesis to
Becca, so Becca falls in love with Starfox too, andtherefore she drops Icarus and Makari completely
out of their empathic days, and Becca straight upstarts making out with Starfox. What? Okay, well

(44:40):
that's going to piss off Orion since that's hiswife, and we'll say it enrages him so much that it's
going to short-circuit his mother box, which isusually what keeps his innate rage in check. So,
with his power unleashed, Orion, who at this pointis irrational and made impossible to be affected

(45:02):
by Starfox's empathic power, he's going to plowstraight into Starfox at light speed on his astral
harness, while engulfed in astrophors energy.So, Starfox gets vaporized, after which Orion's
mother box is going to repair itself and restoreOrion's mind. I guess that's fair, considering he

(45:22):
did make out with Orion's wife and all. Yeah, butyou know what? Orion's going to be angry again when
Thena shoots a bolt from her cosmic energycrossbow that's going to strike Becca right
between her eyes, so Becca's out. Yeah, Becca has aphase shifter built into her suit that makes her
intangible, and you know, she probably activatedthat at the very start of this match, smartly. So,

(45:48):
that bolt is actually going to hit Gilgameshinstead, which is going to take him out. No, he's
fine, but Becca may be intangible, but Cersei'sjust going to force her to become tangible, either
by like turning her phase shifter into dust or likeeven just rendering her molecule solid. Either

(46:11):
way, Becca does not survive Thena's next bolt,which fires from her crossbow. So, Becca's out,
and Orion's not going to do shit about this,because Faistos slaps a magnetic technology
hacker onto Orion's astro harness, and that'sgoing to infect Orion's mother box with a

(46:32):
celestial virus that causes him to become docile,and like so docile, in fact, that he just lets
Icarus hurl him into outer space, never to return.Oh, dang, that was a good move, actually. All
right, well, I'm going to say by this point, Mr.Miracle Boomtube is back into the match, and right
away, he's going to quickly grab Gilgamesh andtoss him into the tube before it closes. So,

(46:58):
Gilgamesh also never returns to the match.Meanwhile, Big Barda uses her mega rod to teleport
behind Icarus, and she's going to use that rod togarot and kill him. Okay, she's choking him out
with the mega rod. Still sounds gross. He wrestlesto free himself from getting choked out, but his

(47:20):
eyes are still free. He's going to shoot massivelypowerful cosmic eye beams at forager that just
incinerate the guy. So, Icarus may be out, like hegets taken out by Barda choking him, but he's also
going to take that cockroach guy with him, and thensuddenly, Mikari steals Barda's mega rod and then
uses her speed power to phase the rod through herchest, just impaling her and taking her out of the

(47:44):
match. Is Mikari a man or a woman? Well, both.Mikari started out as a man then was resurrected as
a woman in her latest incarnation. Oh, okay. So,Barda's out, but as Mikari proceeds to zip around,
I'm going to say Light Ray flies out in front of herpath and stays in front of her no matter where she

(48:07):
turns as he blasts her with a series of lasers,taking out each leg before beaming her right
between the eyes. So, she's out. Okay. I mean,while Light Ray was so focused on eliminating
Mikari and staying in front of her, one thing hedidn't notice was his own decapitation by Theanus
Sword. So, he like lasers Mikari out of the match,and then all of a sudden, he sees his own body. He's

(48:32):
like, oh, shit, there's my body. Oh, no, I'm dead.Jeez. Actually, I'm going to say that Metron just
rewinds time. So, that Light Ray is no longerdecapitated. Now, he's just going to duck below
Theanus Sword and sever her torso in half with alaser beam. So, she's actually the one that's
taken out. Time manipulation is bullshit. Whatcontrols Metron's time powers? Is it, it's his

(48:56):
chair, right? Yeah, the Mobius chair. I'm going tosay that it is now the Mobius pilot dog shit,
because Cersei is going to transform Metron'schair into dog shit. So, now Metron is sitting on
it, and he's like, eww, gross, I'm sitting on thisbig ass pile of dog shit. And then, he and his pile of
dog shit get turned into marble. So, he's a marblestatue now that will forever commemorate that

(49:21):
one-time Metron sat on a big ass stinky pile ofsloppy dog shit. That is the most disrespectful
thing you've ever said. I feel like Metron alsowould have seen that coming. But whatever, Mr.
Miracle, he's going to use his mother box totransmute Cersei into, I don't know, what's worse
than shit? Vomit? Nothing. A pile of vomit. That'swhat Cersei is now. Alright, so who, I only have

(49:46):
Faistos left. Right, and I have Mr. Miracle andLight Ray. Okay. So, Faistos, he's going to throw
out a device, a celestial technology device thattransforms into a portable version of the
Eternals Resurrection Engine. And this is goingto awaken a whole new set of the same Eternals that
you knew gods just destroyed or removed from thebattle. And then Icarus, now resurrected, he's

(50:11):
the head Eternal, he's going to start the UniminedRitual by creating this pillar of blue flame that
all the other Eternals fly into, and that is goingto form the Unimined, which is a composite being
that together is like more powerful than the sum ofits parts. That's right, you're totally screwed.
The fuck? He's like Infinity Man? Sure. I stilldon't quite know who Infinity Man is. It's High

(50:35):
Father's Brother or whatever. This is a compositebeing of Eternals. It's like a floating energy
head with all the powers that can take on any form itwants to actually. And so this Unimined is going to
compress matter inside of Light Ray's body intothis mini black hole that causes him to implode.
That's going to kill him. And the mini black holealso sucks in Mr. Miracle. Like, Light can't

(50:56):
escape a black hole. How the hell is Mr. Miraclegoing to escape a black hole? He's not that smash
over. That was awesome. Escape a black hole? Imean, that'd be easy, actually. Like all Mr.
Miracle has to do is take over this Unimined byreciting the Anti-Life equation, which he knows.
And with the Unimined under his control, not onlydoes he close up the black hole, but the match is

(51:21):
over since to be under the control of Anti-Life isessentially death. What good is the Anti-Life
equation if Mr. Miracle is unable to speak? What?Because the Unimined just erased his mouth and Mr.
Miracle gets sucked into the black hole. I don'tknow. I mean, Mr. Miracle doesn't have to speak it

(51:42):
out loud. He could think it. I'm assuming theUnimined is psychic. So it probably still hears
the equation in Mr. Miracle's mind. How is Mr.Miracle going to think this equation before he
dies, before he gets sucked into the black hole?That's dumb. We'll just say he resets it before the
Eternals even had time to form the Unimined. Likeyou're saying Faistos was able to activate this

(52:03):
celestial machine, recreate the Eternals, havethem form the Unimined and form the black hole
before he could recite the equation? No way.That's wishful thinking. That's bullshit. It
could happen. Sure, why not? Okay, that is a lot ofsteps. We'll go ahead and leave the match there.
Either Faistos and the Eternals are able to formthe Unimined, which in turn creates a black hole

(52:28):
that destroys Lightray and Mr. Miracle, or Mr.Miracle recites the Anti-Life equation taking
control of the Unimined or the Eternals and endingtheir lives. We'll go ahead and leave the match up
there, input the character stats, run thesimulations and come back with the winner. AJ9K,
hit it! Inputting data, running calculations,processing results, simulations complete. Man,

(52:54):
I was really looking forward to using the Uniminedagainst you, but you're right. Like it just, it was
just too many steps. I don't think I could pull thatoff quite cleanly. I'm just glad Mr. Miracle
survived to the end of that speculation to use theAnti-Life equation because I'm not sure how else I
would have overcome the Unimined. Not that thespeculation matters, it all comes down to stats in

(53:14):
the end of what you were right. The Eternalsstomped on the new gods when it came to
versatility. That was the biggest discrepancybetween both teams. Yeah, the Eternals
definitely had the edge over the new gods when itcame to versatility considering they have
basically all the powers, but the new gods didstomp the Eternals when it came to evasiveness,

(53:36):
largely because characters like Becca, Mr.Miracle, and Metron are over and above highly
evasive. Both teams were fairly durable, fairlyfast, they were pretty much even when it came to
damage level, actually, and their range was alsovery similar. Overall, it looks like the Eternals
were a group of better fighters, which surprisedme. Yeah, Acheris, Stina, Gilgamesh, they're all

(54:01):
really well-adept fighters who have lived forclose to a million years, quite a lot of experience
under their belt. Whereas someone like Metron,like have you ever seen Metron throw a punch even?
No, actually, he had the lowest fighting stat outof anyone on either team. That being said, he was
still the most powerful member overall. Yeah,Metron was by far the most powerful character. He

(54:22):
had a win rate of 82.1%, though I also had theweakest member of the other side with Forager, who
only had a win rate of 24.4%. Most of my Eternalswere actually right around the same level
stat-wise, and so a lot of them also had around thesame win rate, ranging from about 55% to 45% win

(54:46):
rate. People like Gilgamesh excelled instrength, McCurry, and speed, things like that,
but overall, they were pretty well balanced. Thatbeing said, Jonathan, can the new gods overcome
that level of versatility and balance? I think so.I mean, I think the Eternals are not specialized
enough, I would say. Not as much as the new gods, andI think that's going to be in the new gods' favor.

(55:09):
And Instagram agrees with me. Of those who took ourInstagram poll, 62% sided with the new gods, which
is lame because the new gods haven't even had amovie, so I think that's just a lot of people
hating. Well, some of the new gods made anappearance in Zack Snyder's Justice League. I
mean, no one who's on my team, they're all fromApocalypse, but people know about them. I don't

(55:30):
think they do, but let's see which team won. Age of9K, the results please. Alright, the winner
between the new gods and the Eternals is... The newgods. Yes! Not by much though. Not by much. Not even
close to what you are probably hoping for, out ofthe thousands of simulated matches, the new gods

(55:55):
only won 51.2% of the time, whereas the Eternalswon 48.8%. So what you're saying is that the new
gods aren't stoppable. What I'm saying is the newgods are big fucking losers, and they can go fuck
themselves, and I hate them. That's what I'msaying. Geez, jealous much? I'm not jealous

(56:17):
because I know at the end of the day the new gods areinferior. Clearly not! Well, if they weren't,
then they would have had a movie made about themalready. Wouldn't they have? That's what I
thought. You mean a shitty movie? Yeah, if they hada movie made about them, it would have been shitty.
Yeah. No, I mean, the Eternals movie was shitty.Fuck you. Never mind. In the end, I don't feel too

(56:37):
bad because it was such a close matchup. It'salmost a coin toss really. And it looks like the
coin came up. New gods. That's stupid. You lose,bitch! But that does it for this team duel. AJ9K,
help close us out. Alright, our next episode isgoing to be an individual duel. We're going to find

(57:25):
out who would win in a fight between Gypsy, who Ithink is a Titan? No, a member of Justice League
Detroit. Okay, I don't know anything about Gypsy,but we're going to learn about her. She's going up
against Shadowcat, who everybody knows as amember of the X-Men Kitty Pride. That does it for
this episode, guys. We want to give a big thanks toour executive producers, Jon Straski, Zachary
Hepburn, Dustin Belcom, Nathaniel Wagner, LeviYatyn, Austin Wazalowski, AJ Dunkerly, Nick

(57:50):
Ibonto, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Speese,Dean Maleski, Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting, and
Paul Graves for helping make this podcastpossible. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up, up 553 00:58:00,750 --> and away, true believers. I'm glad Druig wasn't in this duel. Druig sucks.

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