Ray vs Havok

Listen to the DynaMic Podcast Network at http://dynamicpodcasts.com
Join our community at https://patreon.com/dynamicduel
• 0:00:00 - Introduction 
• 0:03:11 - No-Prize Time 
• 0:09:01 - Peacemaker Season 2 Official Teaser 
• 0:13:49 - Question of the Week 
• 0:15:05 - Ray vs Havok intro 
• 0:19:35 - Havok history and powers 
• 0:29:03 - Ray history and powers 
• 0:37:14 - Fight speculation 
• 0:45:33 - Duel results 
• 0:48:35 - Sign off 
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Executive producers: John Starosky, Zachary Hepburn, Dustyn Balcom, Miggy Matanguihan, Brandon Estergard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Austin Wesolowski, AJ Dunkerley, Nic Abanto, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Speas, Dean Maleski, Devin Davis, Joseph Kersting, Josh Liner, Mike Williams, Oscar Galvez, and Paul Graves
"Take a Chance" "Clash Defiant" "Blip Stream" "Nowhere Land" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com), Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
#Ray #Havok #MarvelVsDC


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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is a DynaMic Network Podcast. Hi, welcome tothe Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we

(00:27):
review superhero films and debate thesuperiority between Marvel and DC by comparing
their characters in stat-based battlesimulations. I'm Johnny DC and I'm his twin
brother Marvelous Joe and in this episode we aredoing a duel between the characters of Rey from DC
and Havok, Cyclops brother. Yeah, Havok has beenpart of the X-Men and X-Factor. He's probably the

(00:52):
biggest X-Men character that we have yet to do aduel with, although you know we haven't done a duel
with Kitty Pride yet so that needs to happen at somepoint. Oh totally. This episode is actually in
lead-up to a future team duel we have plannedbetween the Freedom Fighters and X-Factor since
the Rey is a member of the Freedom Fighters. Yeah,you can expect that team duel next month I believe.

(01:15):
It should be exciting to see who wins between thesetwo energy-blasting characters but before that
we're gonna break down the latest comic book movienews that came out this past week. Of which there
was one news item and that was the release of thepeacemaker season 2 official teaser. As always we
list our second-hand times in our episodedescription so feel free to check out the show
notes if you want to skip ahead to a particulartopic. Our artificially intelligent duel

(01:38):
simulator AJ9K has a quick message for ourlisteners so listen up. The X-Forced Tier gives
you access to our Discord chat server, theFantastic Four Tier gives you two bonus episodes

(01:59):
each month and the X-Forced Tier makes you anexecutive producer of this show. Lastly the Diner
Mike podcast network tier lets you create your ownpodcast using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny
and Joe will help you develop your show, providegraphic support and consultation and get you
simulation results. Pitch the twins your ideasvia email at dynamicdualpodcast.com Thanks AJ9K

(02:27):
and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast.Guys be sure to tune into the other shows in the
Diner Mike podcast network this week includingconsole combat where hosts John and Dean simulate
battles between popular video game charactersand yesterday's episode they speculated on who
would win in a fight between Ellie Williams fromThe Last of Us versus Claire Redfield from
Resident Evil. Also make sure to check out the MaxDestruction podcast hosted by Scotty and Gilly

(02:52):
who paint your favorite action heroes from filmand television against each other. Their podcast
and Senjo World the anime and manga battle podcasthosted by Zachary Hepburn are both on a brief
season hiatus. Visit dynamicpodcasts.com orclick the link in our show notes to listen to all the
shows and the Diner Mike podcast network. But withthat out of the way, quick to the no prize! A no prize

(03:15):
is an award that Marvel used to give out to fans. Ourversion, the Dynamic Dual No Prize, is a digital
award we post on Instagram for the person that wefeel gave the best answer to our question of the
week. Last week we asked you guys includingDeadpool who should be on the roster for the X-Men
Deadpool team-up film and this is coming off of thenews that was reported by the trades that Ryan

(03:36):
Reynolds has been tapped by Marvel Studios towrite a movie that features Deadpool teaming up
with three to four X-Men characters and this filmwould be one of two X-Men films set in the MCU that
are currently being written. We got five answersthis past week so let's go ahead and run down our
three honorable mentions and the no prize winner.Our first honorable mention goes to Lorenzo

(03:57):
Valdez who said, This is Lorenzo Valdez calling inagain. My pitch for the roster for the X-Men
Deadpool team-up film would be alongsideDeadpool of course, Wolverine, Jean Grey and
Cyclops and my idea would be that Deadpool wouldhelp them work through their love triangle while
simultaneously providing fourth wall breakinganalysis of the love triangle itself. Clonifer

(04:22):
everyone always, bye bye. Yeah and I wouldactually throw in Emma Frost into the mix and then
you could get Deadpool's commentary on this kindof love quadrilateral as it were. This almost
seems like the premise for an adult film. Yeah itsounds like a parody of an X-Men Deadpool team-up
but it made me laugh so you get an honorablemention. Great answer Lorenzo our next honorable

(04:45):
mention goes to Travis Herndon who said, What's updynamic dudes Travis here, shout out to me able to
win so my choices would be Deadpool, Colossus,X-23, Silo, Nightcrawler and Warhead. I think
that's a nice little mix with the old Fox X-Men andthen you can introduce the new three new actors to

(05:08):
play those three new X-Men characters. It could bea nice little mix. They can easily play off each
other pretty good something similar to theThunderbolt so that's it. Yeah I'm not sure who
Travis is referring to the old X-Men and who wouldbe the new but we know that Colossus and Negasonic
Teenage Warhead have both been in the Deadpoolfilms and then you have X-23 who's played by Daphne

(05:29):
Keane, Silo who is portrayed by Olivia Munn inX-Men Apocalypse and Nightcrawler who of course
was portrayed by Alan Cumming next to who will bereprising the role in Avengers Doomsday. There
was also the other version of Nightcrawler thatwas in the first class timeline who was played by
Cody Smith McPhee. I actually really like thatlineup it's a really cool cast of characters with

(05:50):
really cool power sets I would love it if that wasthe roster. Yeah I mean you have your strong guy you
have your teleporter you have your psychic youhave your blasty girl and then you have your stabby
girl it works it works great answer Travis our nexthonorable mention goes to Mike Williams who said
my roster for a new Deadpool movie would beDeadpool themselves Wolverine Bishop Warpath

(06:14):
and Domino maybe revive the X-Force so that theydon't all die at the end and maybe start an X-Force
franchise that's my two cents as always make mineMarvel. Yeah this would be essentially a new
X-Force movie with some of the characters thatwere in the Deadpool 2 film like Domino actually
just Domino was part of X-Force in that movie butWarpath is a long-standing member of X-Force in

(06:38):
the comic books and he was in X-Men Days of FuturePast he would be a good addition here Bishop was
briefly on the X-Force team in the comic books if Iremember correctly I think he was on Storm's
version of the team and then of course Wolverineobviously was on the Strike Force version of the
X-Force team as well so yeah this is a pretty goodlineup too I like the inclusion of Domino
specifically. Yeah I felt like she was missingfrom the third Deadpool film personally. Yeah

(07:02):
yeah same well I think the same thing with Cable tooI think they all had pretty good chemistry in
Deadpool 2. I just remembered that Bishop was alsoin Days of Future Past. Great answer Mike we want to
give a special thanks to Kat Stevenson who took thetime to respond with their answer they mentioned
Cable, Professor X, Nightcrawler and Cyclopswhich was a pretty very team with an interesting

(07:23):
mix of characters but the winner of this week's NoPrize goes to Gavin Troyer who said I think the
Deadpool team-up movie should be an X-Force moviewith Deadpool's supporting character, Silak,
Bishop, Forge and Wolverine played by a separateactor than Hugh Jackman and Deadpool's mini arc in

(07:44):
the movie is to move on from Hugh Jackman'sWolverine and accept that this new actor can
follow his footsteps. Also the actor who'splaying Wolverine now should be Tom Hardy but
anyways that's my thoughts. It's an interestingcast for Wolverine I don't know if the fact that Tom
Hardy has played Venom would have any bearing onhim being cast as an MCU Wolverine but beyond the

(08:05):
Wolverine casting aspect the thing I liked mostabout this answer was the inclusion of Forge.
Gavin's answer out of all the answers was the onlyone that included a new character from the X-Men
comic books that we haven't seen yet adapted tolive action and I'm a big Forge fan so I think that'd
be really cool. Yeah if you're not familiar withForge we did a dual episode between him and Mr.

(08:26):
Terrific. His mutant power is essentially that hecan create anything he can imagine like
technology wise. Right exactly not as like atechnopath he's also like engineer the parts and
stuff like that but he makes like a greatquartermaster I think for an X-Force team which
was his role for both X-Force and X-Factor in thecomic books and also I like the variety in this team

(08:47):
I think it would make for a great X-Force film aswell. So great answer Gavin you win this week's No
Prize if you the listener want a shot at winningyour own No Prize stay tuned to later on in this
episode when we'll be asking another question ofthe week. Another that's done? A lot to the news!
Okay last week we got the first official teaser forPeacemaker season two written by James Gunn the

(09:15):
new head of DC Studios who previously wrote seasonone of the show along with the Suicide Squad film
from which John Cena's Peacemaker charactercomes from. I loved the Suicide Squad I loved
Peacemaker season one and I've really beenlooking forward to Peacemaker season two even
though I've been kind of confused as to how it fitsin the new universe that James Gunn is

(09:39):
establishing considering John Cena'sPeacemaker character comes from the DCEU. Well
this trailer did not clear up any confusionwhatsoever in fact it probably made me more
confused but I'm also hoping that it clears thingsup once we finally watch the show. Yeah not to skip
to the end of the trailer it does look like at somepoint Peacemaker goes into his dad's miniature

(10:01):
universe of closets. Yeah his like pocketdimension where he's able to access the
multiverse maybe. Yeah it kind of seems that waybut in the beginning we get to see the new Justice
League that's going to appear in the upcomingSuperman film although the Superman movie comes
out before this show debuts. Right Peacemakergoes to an audition in a rundown toy store to meet

(10:23):
with Hawke Girl Green Lantern Guy Gardner andMaxwell Lord played by the same actors who play
them in the Superman movie. During Peacemaker'sinterview they failed to mute themselves so
they're just talking shit about him behind theglass and it's very humiliating for him. It was a
somewhat humorous scene though I'm not sure all ofthe actors pulled off the comedy specifically

(10:46):
Isabella Merced. We'll see how it goes. What'sinteresting is that Maxwell Lord could be twins
with Calenderman as he was portrayed in theSuicide Squad film and he moves a lot like Weasel
how weird is that. Now of course Maxwell Lord isplayed by Sean Gunn who yes did play Calenderman in

(11:07):
the DCEU but he's moved beyond that. He's ontobigger and better things like the benefactor of
the Justice League Maxwell Lord. After theopening scene for the rest of the trailer we
essentially see the old cast from season onecoming to terms with the fact that even though they
saved the world they're getting no realrecognition for it and in fact it looks like

(11:28):
they're being hunted by Argus formerly run byAmanda Waller now run by Rick Flagg Sr whose son was
killed by Peacemaker in the Suicide Squad film. Itwas a very powerful moment in that film so I'm glad
they're still able to play up on that as they did inPeacemaker season one. We get to see Adebayo,

(11:49):
Adrian Chase, AK, Vigilante, Harcourt,Economist all return they're all being their
badass hilarious selves. And we get to see TimMeadows as one of the agents of Argus it looks like.
Yeah he's in the scene where he's giving nicknamesand directions to his Argus crew and they're all
fairly insulting. Yeah Mexicali, Ponyboy,Titties and Ceno Man I thought that was pretty good

(12:15):
one. It was interesting to see Tim Meadows herewho's primarily known for his comedic work but it
seems like James Gunn has a pretty goodrelationship with a lot of SNL actors because
we've seen him use like Pete Davidson asBlackguard in the Suicide Squad and Beck Bennett
is going to be in his upcoming Superman movie. YeahI'm a big fan of Tim Meadows from his SNL days it's

(12:35):
great to see him on this cast surprisingly also weget a glimpse of Michael Rooker as a character that
I have no idea who it is. Some people are sayingSnowflame I don't know if I believe that. I
definitely don't think it's Savant the characterthat the actor played in the Suicide Squad
considering he's dead so who knows. Yeah JamesGunn likes to work with a lot of the same actors over

(12:58):
and over again Michael Rooker you know being theactor who played Yondu in The Guardians of the
Galaxy movies but again we have this weirdnesswhere Michael Rooker played Savant in the DCEU and
he's playing this new character in this newversion of the DC Universe but they could be like
twins just like with this Shang-Gun situationit's a little bit confusing how they're going to
pull this off although that's not to say thatMarvel hasn't reused actors in different roles

(13:20):
people like Alfred Woodard or something likethat. Yeah or Gemma Chan. Right like I said earlier
I'm hoping some of this confusion gets cleared uponce we watch the show I'm definitely fully
expecting to love this show and just find ithilarious and if things get cleared up in the midst
of the fun of watching it that's just icing on thecake. The show premieres on August 21st on Max and

(13:45):
we will absolutely be reviewing it once it wraps upbut going back to our discussion of Tim Meadows
that brings us to our question of the week. Cast anySaturday Night Live actor as a Marvel or DC
superhero who would you cast and why? Andportrayed characters in Marvel and DC the most

(14:10):
popular of course was Robert Downey Jr who was amember of the cast for I think like a year but you
know he's Iron Man so that doesn't count neitherdoes Kristen Wiig who played Cheetah in Wonder
Woman 1984 or Pete Davidson who again playedBlackguard in the Suicide Squad. There's also
Bill Murray who played Lord Krylar in Quantum andrecently Shazir Zamata played Jennifer Kale in

(14:36):
Agatha All Along. Would love to get your answers.Record them at dynamicdool.com by clicking on the
red microphone button in the bottom right handcorner of the screen which will prompt you to leave
us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30seconds long and don't forget to leave your name in

(14:56):
case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick ourfavorite answer and award that person a dynamic
duel no prize that we'll post to Instagram. Be sureto answer before May 17th. DC High Volume Batman.
The Dark Knight's definitive DC comic storiesadapted directly for audio for the very first

(15:21):
time. Fear. I have to make them afraid. He's got amotorcycle. Get after him or have you shot? You
mean blow up the building. From this moment on,none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday
wherever you get your podcasts. But that does itfor all of the news for this episode so now let's

(15:45):
move on to the main event where we find out who wouldwin between the Freedom Fighter Ray and the
X-Factor member Havoc. Ray vs. Havoc. Thesecharacters were chosen by our executive

(16:13):
producers to battle against each other becausethey're both energy emitters as it were. They're
both fairly popular characters within Marvel andDC that for some reason we just haven't gotten to
yet. Back when I first started reading comics inthe 90s, Ray was all over the place. Not so much
lately in the comics, but you occasionally see himfrom time to time. He has a cool look to him. So does

(16:34):
Havoc I think. They both have pretty coolheadgear. Ray has his like Spartan warrior style
helmet and then Havoc has his like tri-prongedmask thing. Whatever the hell that is. That's
weird. I never really liked his look. It's aninteresting look but it's also a weird look. It's a
unique look for sure. He did not have this look inX-Men 1st class when the character was played by

(16:57):
Lucas Till. Yeah, he also showed up in X-MenApocalypse where it was established that he and
Cyclops were brothers. The way they portrayedHavoc's plasma blasting abilities in the movies
was a little unique. You know, they made his plasmared probably so that it resembled Cyclops powers a
little bit more, but traditionally Havocemanates the plasma from his body like in all

(17:19):
directions and it emanates in waves. And he's alsonot able to control that just like his brother
Cyclops. Sometimes he is, but most commonly hewears a containment suit that helps him control
and direct his powers. In a similar way thatCyclops wears his visor that helps him control and
direct his powers. Now you've never seen the Ray ina live-action movie but he has been in the

(17:40):
Arrowverse on live-action television and also hehad his own animated series called Freedom
Fighters the Ray, which is pretty Yeah, I never sawthat but his power set is pretty cool so I bet you the
action in that series is pretty well done. Yeah,both of these characters are pretty powerful so
I'm excited to see how this is going to turn out. Toexplain the methodology behind our duels, let's

(18:01):
go to our sentient duel simulator, Alfred Jarvis9000. AJ and NK tell our listeners how you go about
determining a winner in our duel matchups. Yes, ofcourse, sir. The way I determine a winner between
the contestants is by running 1000 Monte Carlosimulations using the characters statistics. A
Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic modelused to determine outcomes through random

(18:24):
sampling. In this case, I randomize thestatistics along a normal distribution as a way to
simulate the many variables that can occur duringbattle. The stat parameters are based on the
official Marvel power grid from which the DCcharacters statistics are extrapolated.
Additional stat categories are included such asrange, damage potential, versatility and

(18:44):
perception in order to create a more detailed andaccurate simulation. The results of the 1000
simulations provide a percentage of wins for eachcharacter. The contestant with the higher
percentage is declared the victor as they have ahigher probability to win any given battle. In an
equitable pairing, neither character should win100% of the matches. The comic book stories have

(19:05):
shown that there's even a way for Batman to defeatSuperman, so the confidence rate of my method
falls in line with the precedents that have beenestablished in the source material. My
mathematical simulations are withoutsubjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole
consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated fordetermination of the winner. Thanks, AJ and IK.
Before we run the simulations, though, we'd liketo break down each character's histories and

(19:28):
abilities before improvising a scenario on how weimagine one of the 1000 simulations would play out
beat for beat. And I think it's my turn to go firstwith the Marvel character, so let me tell you guys
all about Havoc. Alexander Summers was born inHonolulu, Hawaii, one of the sons of Air Force
Major Christopher Summers and his wife,Catherine. As a child living in Anchorage,

(19:49):
Alaska, Alex was aboard his father's privateplane with his parents and older brother Scott
when it was attacked by an alien spaceshipbelonging to the Shi'ar Empire. To save their
sons, Christopher and Catherine strapped Alexand Scott to the plane's only parachute and pushed
them out before the plane exploded. The fall leftScott with a head injury and the boys were placed in

(20:09):
an orphanage in Omaha, Nebraska. Unbeknownst tothem, the facility was secretly run by the
geneticist, Mr. Sinister, who was obsessed withthe Summers bloodline. You can learn more about
Scott Summers, aka Cyclops, in his duel againstNegative Man, and more about Mr. Sinister in his
duel against the Ultra Humanite. Alex was soonadopted by the Blandings, a couple who had lost

(20:30):
their own son, Todd. Traumatized in wanting areplacement child, they raised Alex to behave
like Todd. When Todd's killer returned andkidnapped Alex and his younger foster sister, the
stress triggered Alex's mutant powers. Hereleased a blast of plasma that incinerated the
kidnapper. Mr. Sinister erased Alex's memoriesof the incident and suppressed his abilities,

(20:54):
causing Alex to grow up unaware of his mutantnature or that he had a brother. After earning a
degree in geophysics in college, Alex waskidnapped by Professor Ahmed Abdaal, also known
as the Living Pharaoh, who discovered that he andAlex shared the same type of cosmic
energy-absorbing mutation. Alex's presenceprevented Abdaal from accessing his full power.

(21:15):
By abducting and shielding Alex from ambientcosmic energy, Abdaal was able to transform into a
giant entity called the Living Monolith. TheX-Men arrived to stop him, and Alex's powers
reawakened under stress. Though he couldn'tcontrol his abilities, he helped defeat the
monolith. And afterward, Professor X revealedthat Cyclops was Alex's older brother. Fearing

(21:36):
the damage his powers might cause, Alex initiallychose to stay behind in Egypt, but he was soon
captured by the mutant hunting sentinels led byLarry Trask. Trask provided Alex with a
containment suit and dubbed him Havoc. The suithelped regulate Alex's absorption and release of
cosmic radiation, which his body naturallystored and expel in the form of powerful plasma

(21:57):
blasts. After being rescued by the X-Men, Alexjoined their ranks and trained to master his
abilities. You can learn more about the team intheir duel against the Titans. During this
period, Alex grew close to fellow mutant LornaDane, also known as Polaris, who was the daughter
of Magneto. The two became romantically involvedand helped the X-Men repel numerous threats,

(22:18):
including alien invaders and anti-mutantgroups. Eventually, they left the X-Men to attend
graduate school in Nevada. However, they weremanipulated by the Shiar agent Eric the Red and
temporarily turned against the X-Men. Afterbeing freed from their mind control, they
recovered at Muir Island, where they later foughtthe reality-warping mutant Proteus. Alex
eventually learned that his and Scott's fatherhad survived their plane attack and escaped Shiar

(22:43):
slavery to become Corsair, the leader of aspacefaring team called the Starjammers. During
their reunion, Scott met Madeline Pryor, a secretclone of Jean Grey, at a time when he believed Jean
was dead. Alex served as the best man at Scott'swedding to Madeline, and Alex later attempted to
leave behind the superhero life. He was drawn backin, however, when Polaris was possessed by the

(23:06):
villain Malice. Alex was unable to free her fromthat control and the experience left him
frustrated and helpless. He continued to servewith the X-Men and eventually entered into a
relationship with Madeline, who had at the timebeen abandoned by Scott when he learned that Jean
was still alive. Madeline was then corrupted bydemonic forces and transformed into the Goblin
Queen, triggering a demonic invasion of New York.She manipulated Alex into becoming her Goblin

(23:31):
Prince, turning him against the X-Men, until theconflict ended with her death, when Madeline
learned that she was a clone. You can learn moreabout Jean Grey in our Raven vs Phoenix duel
episode. To escape an ambush with the cyberneticvillains known as the Reavers, Alex and the rest of
the X-Men passed through a mystical gatewaycalled the Siege Paralysis, which for a time left

(23:52):
the world thinking that the X-Men were dead. Theyeventually reemerged on Earth, where Alex became
a magistrate for the new mutant nation of Genosha.There, he helped build the Republic, led by
Magneto, into a sanctuary for mutants around theworld. Professor X later recruited Alex to lead a
government sponsored mutant team called XFactor, where he was reunited with Polaris.

(24:14):
Though effective as a leader, Alex struggled withteam politics, romantic entanglements, and the
apparent death of his teammate multiple man fromthe Legacy Virus. During a mission with X Factor,
Alex was presumed dead in a time machineexplosion. In reality, he was thrown into a
parallel universe known as the Mutant X Reality,where he led a team called the Six, and was married

(24:36):
to Madeline Pryor with whom he had a son namedScotty. Alex helped save the dimension from
another iteration of the Goblin Queen beforebeing cast into the void between dimensions,
where his consciousness remained suspendeduntil his eventual return to the main Marvel
timeline, Earth 616. He woke up in his homereality, after which Polaris proposed marriage
to him. Though Alex initially agreed, unsure ofhis feelings, he ultimately called off the

(25:00):
wedding. Angered, Polaris attacked Alex, but thetwo eventually reconciled. Alex rejoined the
X-Men during a time when most of the Earth'smutants had their powers taken away by the Scarlet
Witch. Though Alex kept his powers, Polaris didnot, and they left the team to be together.
However, Polaris was later abducted by theancient mutant Apocalypse, who re-granted her

(25:22):
powers as one of his horsemen, and Alex foughtalongside the X-Men to rescue her. You can learn
more about Scarlet Witch and Apocalypse in theirrespective duels against Satana and Black Adam.
Professor X soon recruited Alex for a spacemission to stop Vulcan, the long-lost Third
Summer's brother who had become a powerful threatthat usurped the alien Xiar Empire. Vulcan killed

(25:44):
their father Corsair, and Alex vowed revenge,taking command of the space-faring Starjammers
to resist Vulcan's tyrannical rule. In one oftheir fights, Vulcan blasted Havok into a son,
seemingly killing him. However, Alex's abilityto absorb cosmic radiation supercharged his
cells with a massive influx of energy that enabledhim to survive the experience. Alex re-emerged

(26:07):
with enough power to damage Vulcan's weapons andfree his captured teammates. Returning to Earth,
Alex joined X-Factor Investigations, a mutantprivate detective agency led by a multiple man who
had survived the Legacy Virus. During theAvengers vs X-Men conflict, Alex sided with the
Avengers and was chosen by Captain America to leadthe Avengers Unity Division, an initiative meant

(26:29):
to promote human and mutant superherocooperation. During a battle with Red Onslaught,
Alex was among several heroes who were morallyinverted by a magical spell. Most were eventually
restored by a subsequent spell, but Alex remainedinverted. He resigned from the Avengers and
joined Emmafrost, Bastion, and Mr. Sinister in aplan to spread a mutagenic virus called

(26:52):
Mothervine, which would cause mutations inhumans and result in mutant dominance on Earth.
However, when it was revealed that Mothervinewould also mind control all mutants, Emmafrost
betrayed the group and psychically restoredAlex's original personality. You can learn more
about Emmafrost in our Poison Ivy vs White Queenduel episode. Alex died again while defending the

(27:13):
X-Men from Sentinels, but was resurrected on thenew Mutant Island nation of Krakowa through a
process they could bring mutants back to life via aselect combination of mutant powers. There, he
joined the Helians, a new team led by Silak, where avariant of Madeline Pryor was killed on a mission.
Alex pleaded for her resurrection, but was deniedbecause she was a clone. Frustrated, he lashed out

(27:37):
and destroyed one of Mr. Sinister's hidden labs onKrakowa, ending the villain's secret
experiments. Emmafrost eventually persuadedthe Krakowin Council to approve Madeline's
resurrection. Although she and Alex reunited,she told him they needed space. When Alex
sacrificed himself to defend her in a lateradventure, Madeline used her magic to restore him

(27:57):
to life in gratitude. And that's his backstory.Powers-wise, Havoc has the innate mutant ability
to absorb ambient cosmic energies, includingradiation, light, heat, x-rays, etc., which his
body can store and release by converting it intoplasma, which is a super hot ionized gas that
ranges from 11,000 to 14,500 degrees Fahrenheit.Typically, the plasma emanates from Havoc in all

(28:22):
directions, but by focusing, he can direct theblasts into directional beams, often while
wearing a special containment suit. He can focusthe amount of energy he projects from levels small
enough to increase the surrounding temperatureor powerful enough to disintegrate his immediate
vicinity. In addition to his mutant power, heholds a degree in geophysical science and has

(28:43):
received some hand-to-hand combat training. Andthat is Havoc. Wait, so he could absorb light?
Yeah, basically, in small quantities. Oh, smallquantities. Good. Cause he's gonna get so many
quantities. Well, don't forget that he was throwninto a sun and managed to survive that, so you might
have your work cut out for you. Hmm, we'll see. Letme get into the Rey's backstory. Langford, happy,

(29:07):
Tarrell, was a reporter in the early 1940s whojoined an upper-atmosphere balloon expedition
sponsored by the U.S. government under the guiseof scientific exploration. Unbeknownst to him,
the expedition was a covert experiment by agovernment research group called RONAL, or
Research on the Nature of Light, led by Dr. Dazel.Dazel believed that light originating from the

(29:31):
birth of the universe would eventually circleback to Earth as a sentient destructive entity.
And that only being composed of both human andlight could communicate with it. During the
expedition, Hapi was exposed to a burst ofelectrical energy and ambient sunlight from a
detonated light bomb designed to give himenergy-based powers. Surviving the

(29:54):
quote-unquote accident, Hapi discovered hecould manipulate light and energy, which he used
to become the hero known as the Rey. He fought inWorld War II and joined the freedom fighters to
combat access forces. During his earlyadventures, he battled threats ranging from
mystics to metahumans and developed his skills asa light-wielding champion. He later fought

(30:16):
alongside other Golden Age heroes in the All-StarSquadron. After the war, Hapi married his first
wife, Gale, and had a son named Joshua. Joshuaaccompanied him briefly as his sidekick
Spitfire, until the boy's unstable nature led to aviolent episode in which he accidentally killed
his mother. Unable to cope with his son'svolatility, Hapi placed Joshua in suspended

(30:40):
animation. Disillusioned and burdened by theconsequences of his role in Dazel's plan, Hapi
retired as the Rey in 1950. In the 1970s, Hapibriefly joined the freedom fighters before
marrying again. When his second wife Nadine gavebirth to a glowing infant, Hapi realized Dazel's

(31:02):
theories had been correct. Bearing theimplications of raising such a child, he told
Nadine the baby had died and entrusted his son tohis brother Thomas to raise as his own. The boy was
named Raymond Terrell. Years later, Hapi wassummoned by the freedom fighters leader Uncle Sam
to seek out the mystical being known as Neon theUnknown, who Uncle Sam believed could help Hapi's

(31:26):
son Raymond. You can learn more about Uncle Sam andhis duel against Captain Britain. When Neon
refused to help, Hapi drank from the mystic watersof Neon's oasis, an act that caused him to merge
with Neon. Though Hapi as the new Neon was largelyabsent after that transformation, he continued
to watch over his son from a distance. As Rey wasraised by his Uncle Thomas, it was claimed that Rey

(31:52):
suffered from a lethal light allergy. Confined toa darkened home and kept from the outside world,
Rey was known to the public as Night Boy. On the dayof Thomas's death, Rey learned the truth. He was
not allergic to light, and his real father was thewartime hero known as the Rey. At Thomas's
funeral, Rey met his cousin Hank, who helped himstep into the sunlight for the first time,

(32:17):
awakening his powers. Though initiallyreluctant to become a hero, Rey was soon
confronted by Hapi, who revealed the truth aboutRonal and Dazel's experiments. To prepare his son
for a potential confrontation with the returninglight entity, Hapi orchestrated a complex plan,
using agents to pressure Rey into heroism.Ultimately, Rey ventured into the realm of the

(32:41):
light entity and convinced it to spare Earth.Embracing his destiny, Rey adopted the mantle of
the Rey and began his career as a superhero. Hebattled villains such as Dr. Polaris, Brimstone,
and Lobo, and briefly worked under VandalSavage's employ before breaking away. Following
the death of Superman, Rey was recruited into theJustice League of America, where he served for

(33:05):
about a year. During this time, he had ashort-lived romance with Black Canary, who you
can learn more about in her duel episode againstBlack Widow. He later joined the Justice League
task force under the Martian Manhunter, helpingto train younger heroes. Following the team's
dissolution, Rey remained a reserve JusticeLeague and joined the forgotten heroes to take

(33:27):
down Vandal Savage. He later joined YoungJustice, where he briefly ran for team leader.
Though older than most members, he bonded with thegroup before later departing. You can learn more
about Young Justice in the team duel episodebetween them and the Young Avengers. Rey was
captured during a battle against the Nowhere Men,who sought to erase individuality. He was rescued

(33:50):
during the fight and returned to his hero duties,joining a new incarnation of the Freedom
Fighters. During an ambush by the Secret Society,most of the team was killed, and Rey was taken
hostage to power a device meant to recreate theuniverse. He was freed, however, before its
destruction. He reemerged with a new costume anddefeated the rogue Stan Silver, who had stolen his

(34:12):
identity. Rey joined the Reformed FreedomFighters and helped counter various threats.
During the sun-eating crisis, Rey masqueraded asa second son to deceive the threat and provide
hope. He continued aiding the superherocommunity, including participating in
operations against the Anti-Life equation. Inpost-Flashpoint continuity, Raymond Terrell

(34:35):
was raised in a windowless home by his motherNadine, who claimed he was deathly allergic to
light. In truth, Rey's powers were latent anddangerous, passed down from his father, the
original Rey. After an accidental flare-up of hisabilities injured his childhood friend, Caden
Zipodi, Rey became completely isolated. On his18th birthday, Rey left his home and was struck by

(34:58):
the lights of the city, triggering histransformation into a being of living light. He
became invisible and remained in that state forfour years, drifting through the world. One day,
he saw Caden campaigning for mayor of Vanity,Oregon, and watched an attempt on his life by a
member of the Sons of Liberty. Rey intervenedusing his powers to stop the attack and was dubbed

(35:22):
the Rey by the press. He became the city'sprotector and was later recruited into Batman's
new Justice League of America. With the league,Rey participated in freeing the hero Bloodwind,
resisting reality-altering threats and servingas a courier during dimensional crises. He helped
expose plots by the Secret Society, contributedto relief efforts after global disasters, and

(35:47):
operated as a solo hero when not engaged with theleague. And that's the Rey's backstory so far.
Powers-wise, the Rey possesses the ability toabsorb and process light energy, which fuels his
superhuman abilities. He can projectconcentrated rays of destructive light, emit
blinding flashes, and form solid lightconstructs similar to those of a Green Lantern.

(36:11):
His powers allow him to create illusions, renderhimself invisible, and heal from injuries
through photonic regeneration. Rey can alsoconvert his entire body into coherent light,
rendering himself intangible and immune tophysical damage, while also allowing him to
travel at light speed. And that's the Rey. That's abullshit power set. Any more so than Havoc's?

(36:37):
What? Yeah, he could turn into light and move at thespeed of light. What is he, the Flash? All I know is
that it's just like DC to name a character whosesuperhero name is the Rey as Rey. His real name is
Rey. What the fuck? All right, it makes thingseasy. Way to go, DC. It's not like anyone's going to
deduce his secret identity. When he goes into hislike power mode, he turns actually all black, kind

(37:00):
of similar to Sunspot. Oh, from absorbing all theambient light energy? Exactly. Yeah, actually,
his design was created by Joe Cassata, the formereditor-in-chief of Marvel Comics. Oh,
interesting. That is interesting. But now thatwe've got their history as a whole, we're going to

(38:09):
have to go back to the way. Let's speculate on howone of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The
winner is determined by simulations, not thespeculation, but it's fun to imagine how the fight
could play out. AG9K, what are the rules of ourspeculation? Well, I should say there are no rules
other than the characters have no prior knowledgeof the other going into the fight. All they are

(38:30):
aware of starting out is that the other characteris a threat that needs to be eliminated. For the
speculation, the contestants will beginapproximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript
environment that will have no bearing on the matchitself, as no environmental statistics are
considered in my simulations. The contestantsmust earn victory on their own merit. All right

(38:50):
then, let's get into it. Rey and Havoc meet on thebattlefield. Who goes first? Actually, I'm going
to say the Rey goes first because he can move atlight speed since he's literally light and he'll
start off by emitting these flashes of brightlight from his palms that are going to blind Havoc
and while Havoc is stumbling around, not surewhere to aim, that's when Rey's gonna just

(39:14):
straight up blast him right through his heart withthe laser beam. Boom. But who needs to aim when you
can blast in all directions at any given time?Like, Havoc doesn't need to aim, so like, sure, he
may get temporarily blinded but as his eyes arerecovering and before the Rey could even laser
him, Havoc's just gonna release a plasma wave inall directions and that wave is gonna plow into the

(39:40):
Rey and it's gonna throw off his laser beam whilealso incinerating him with 12,000 degree heat.
No, because as the Rey gets blasted by the initialfront of the wave of plasma, he's going to turn his
body intangible and that's going to allow thatwave to pass right through him before the Rey traps

(40:01):
Havoc in a sphere of hard light and then just slamhim into the ground repeatedly, knocking him
silly and probably knocking Havoc out. Wait,wait, wait, I don't think the Rey can phase through
plasma. Like, it's not some kind of like solidphysical attack that's just gonna go through him.
That's like saying Rey's gonna phase through theair that's around him. Like, the Rey would somehow

(40:24):
have to physically remove himself from like theirplane of existence or something to not be affected
by the superheated matter around him. Well, yeah,plasma is matter. Rey can phase through matter.
Yeah, but it's like highly energized matter.Like, it's atoms that become ions, essentially.
So how can the Rey phase through something that'saffecting his surrounding physical location?

(40:48):
Like, if he were placed in a giant oven and the ovenwas turned up to 12,000 degrees, do you think the
Rey could just phase through the heated air aroundhim in order to avoid being baked? Because I don't
think so. That's a good question. You know, hecould always phase through the oven wall, but if
it's too big for him to reach it in time, he probablywould be damaged because he is vulnerable to

(41:13):
energy attacks like heat. There you go. Exactly.So going back, no, Rey isn't creating any sort of
hard light construct. He's fucking baking in hishelmet. Okay, well, all right, so the blast would
probably knock him out of his light mode, but oncehe reentered it as a being composed of pure light,

(41:35):
he'd be fully healed once again. So that's whenhe's going to trap Havok in that sphere and knock
him around. So he has like some kind of like lightbased healing factor? Yeah, exactly. He's a being
of pure light. He doesn't have like a physical formper se, sort of. Like he was once shot in the back of
the head and was told that he was going to be likeparalyzed for the rest of his life, but then he just

(41:58):
switched in and out of his light mode and he wasfully healed. That's stupid. So you say that he
traps Havok in a solid light construct? I don'teven know what solid light is, like even
conceptually, like what is it made out of? Like isthis like maybe a photon's head mass? Whatever.
I'm going to say that Havok is going to be able toblast through it with a focused plasma beam from

(42:20):
his chest and it's going to go through the hardlight construct and slam into Rey again since
we've established that yeah, Rey is going to bevulnerable to plasma and getting hit is going to
make him drop the construct. Okay. So the hardlight sphere disappears, Havok lands on his feet
under the ground and then he's going to blast aplasma beam downward to propel himself up into the

(42:41):
air and just punch Rey right in his tangible face.Oh, sorry. When Havok was knocked around, you
know, he lost his bearings and he didn't noticethat the Rey he now sees is actually a projected
illusion from the now invisible Rey who'sactually behind Havok and he's going to fly into

(43:02):
Havok at high speed and you just send him skiddingacross the ground. Okay. Yeah, that would
probably hurt Havok, you know, getting hit at highspeed would definitely mean that he's going to get
up pretty slowly from the ground. But as the Reyflies in and tries to land a finishing blow, all of a
sudden he just collapses out of the air like he'ssick or something because as it turns out this

(43:25):
entire match, Havok has been releasing like a lowlevel of plasma throughout the environment
that's been slowly burning and charring the Rey'sbody from the inside out like a microwave. And
since we've established that intangibilityisn't going to help the Rey here, his insides are
basically charred like an overcooked steak and hefalls to the ground dead. Okay. The problem I have

(43:47):
is your use of the word slow. Like Havok stands upslowly, he's slowly been burning the Rey. The Rey
is not slow. Okay. Even if he's damaged on theinside and maybe even is dying in less than a
second, Rey could just slam into Havok, fly himinto outer space at light speed and just cause

(44:10):
Havok to freeze out there among the stars. No, no,no. Havok isn't freezing at any point. He could
just keep himself warm with low level plasma andbut can he breathe? No, but he's displayed the
ability to survive for a short time in space likewhen he absorbed the power of a star in his fight
with Vulcan. And this whole match he's beenabsorbing basically the power of a star by the

(44:34):
energy that the Rey gives off. So, you know, Havok,he's amped up. He's doing just fine. He's going to
direct a blast of plasma that sends him hurlinglike a plasma comet that slams right into Rey and
sends them both creaning back into Earth, backthrough the atmosphere, the heat upon reentry.
That's not going to matter, but they crash into theground and the Rey just flattens on impact. And

(44:56):
Havok, yeah, he's probably going to flatten too,but the Rey is going to flatten first and therefore
Havok wins. Okay, well, I say the Rey is just goingto phase through Havok at the last second and let
Havok crash his own damn self into the planet'ssurface, just kind of causing himself. So, Rey

(45:17):
survives, Havok doesn't match over. No, I thinkthe Rey's body is too charred on the inside by this
point to be able to do any sort of phasing. So, Havokactually wins. But we'll go ahead and leave the
match there. It's kind of an interesting way to endthis fight, but that's where we ended up. Let's go
ahead and input the stats for the characters, runthe simulations, and find out which scenario

(45:38):
happens when we come back. A.J .9K, hit it!Inputting data, running calculations,
processing results, simulations complete. Allright, these guys are two definite powerhouses
when it came to damage potential. They could bothbasically explode and destroy entire city blocks
with their energy. Although we did say Havok was alittle bit more powerful in terms of damage

(46:01):
potential just because he can do things like meltadamantium, whereas we didn't think the Rey would
be able to do that. No, yeah, Havok got the leg upwhen it came to damage, but the Rey was pretty off
the charts in other stat categories, such asmovement speed, evasiveness because of his
intangibility, and even durability thanks to hishealing ability. Yeah, we also said that the Rey

(46:24):
was more versatile considering he can do all sortsof things with his energy-based powers. However,
Havok is smarter having a degree in geophysicalscience, so he's got that going for him. And I think
that his advantage and intellect and damagepotential are enough to give him the win here. What
do you think, Jonathan? I disagree. I think the Reyis going to take this match handedly, although our

(46:48):
followers on Instagram disagree with me. In thepoll that we put up, 57% of people cited with Havok.
Damn straight. Various two group of Instagramfollowers that we have, for sure. I doubt it.
They're going to learn today. Don't knock ourfollowers, but let's see who won. AJ and IK, the
results, please. Hey, you are, sir. All right, thewinner between the Rey and Havok is the Rey. Yes!

(47:20):
Now, did I say his superhero name or his real name?Who knows? Because D.C.'s dumb. Yes, the answer is
yes. At a 1000 simulated matches, Rey won awhopping 891 battles, whereas Havok only won 109.
So, Rey had a win rate of 89.1%, whereas Havok onlyhad 10.9%. So you're telling me Rey beats Havok 9

(47:44):
out of 10 times? Only because Rey is a cheatercharacter who can do way too much and, uh, sucks?
Yeah. I'll be honest, I did not think that the Reywas going to defeat Havok so handedly. I actually
thought Havok was going to be a good opponent forRey, but clearly we were all wrong. Yeah, it's a

(48:07):
mismatch. It's a mismatch for sure. We nevershould have put Havok up against Rey. We probably
should have put Havok up against, like, Robin orsomebody. I don't know. I think that would have
been a better matchup. So I'm going to say this onedoesn't even count, right? Oh no, I'm sorry. It
actually does count. Sucks to suck. I'm just goingto forget this one as soon as this episode ends,

(48:28):
which is right now. It's just going to be a baddream, basically. It's your living nightmare,
motherfucker. So that does it for this duel, guys.A.J. and I.K. help close this out. Our next episode

(49:10):
is going to be another duel episode, where we findout who would win in a fight between Mary Marble and
Hercules. But that does it for this episode. Wewant to give a big thanks to our executive
producers, John Starroski, Zachary Hepburn,Dustin Balcom, Maggie Methangian, Brandon
Esregard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yatyn, AustinWieselowski, A.J. Dunkerly, Nick Ibonto, Scott
Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spees, Dean Maleski,Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting, Josh Schleiner,

(49:35):
Mike Williams, Oscar Galvez, and Paul Graves forhelping make this podcast possible. We'll talk to 493 00:49:41,190 --> you guys next week. Up, up, and away. True believers.