Thunderbolts* Review

Episode Transcript
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This is a DynaMic Network Podcast. Hi and welcometo the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we

(00:27):
review superhero films and debate thesuperiority between Marvel and DC by comparing
their characters in stat-based battlesimulations. I'm Marvelous Joe. And I'm its twin
brother Johnny DC. And in this episode, we aregoing to review the latest Marvel Studios film
that hit theaters, Thunderbolts, Asterisk. Andno, the Asterisk was not just a stand-in for a

(00:49):
butthole. It did in fact have meaning that we willdiscuss later on this episode. If you did not see
the movie, don't spoil yourself on what theAsterisk meant. Go see the film and then come back
and listen to our spoiler review. I really likedthe Thunderbolts. It's probably my new favorite
Marvel movie. Well, don't give away the wholeshow. Save your thoughts on the movie for when we
discuss the movie. I just said I liked it. I didn'tgive anything away. Way to go, Jonathan.

(01:13):
Everybody's tuning out now because you'redumbass. Please stay with us, guys. Because
before we talk about the movie, we're going tobreak down the latest comic book movie news this
past week, of which there was just one major newsitem. We learned that Ryan Reynolds is writing an
X-Men movie for the MCU, which will featureDeadpool. An all-Marvel episode. As always, we
list our segment times in our episodedescription, so feel free to check out the show

(01:35):
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everyone who supports the podcast. Guys, be sureto tune into the other shows on the Diner Mike
podcast network this week, including the consolecombat podcast, where hosts John and Dean
simulate battles between popular video gamecharacters. In yesterday's episode, they

(02:41):
speculated on who would win in a fight betweenIsaac Clarke from Dead Space versus Pfft Rittus,
R-T-A-S, Vadom from Halo. Oh god, I'm gonna getbutchered for that. Ritas Vadom. Or Vadom. Vadom?
Is it Vadom? I don't know, please be gentle. Fans.Over on the Max Destruction podcast, hosts Scotty

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and Gilly put your favorite action heroes fromfilm and television against each other. They are
on a brief season break currently, so now's theperfect time to get caught up with their past
episodes. And on the Senjou World podcast, hostZachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan
favorite anime and manga characters. OnThursday, Isaac is gonna reveal who would win
between Sunraku from Shangri-La Frontier versusKirito from Sword Art Online. Visit

(03:29):
dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our shownotes to listen to all of the shows in the Diner Mike
podcast network. But with that out of the way,quick to the no prize. A no prize is an award that
Marvely used to give out to fans. Our version, theDynamic Dual No Prize, is a digital award that we
post on Instagram for the person that we feel gavethe best answer to our question of the week. Last

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week, we asked you guys, for those of you who haveseen both films, which was better? 2009's
Watchmen or Thunderbolts and why? And we askedthis because last week's episode was a team duel
where we found out who would win in a fight betweenthe Watchmen and the Thunderbolts. So we kind of
continued it into the film space. We didn't get awhole lot of answers, we just got two, largely

(04:18):
because there were only so many people out therelistening that could give a valid answer to this
question in time. Our first honorable mentiongoes to John Sturrosky, who said, It's John
Sturrosky here. So you guys are asking which isbetter, Thunderbolts or Watchmen? And to be
perfectly honest, I can't say either of them isbetter than the other one because it's comparing

(04:39):
apples to oranges. And Watchmen, you've got auniverse where the real heroes that we know from
the DC universe don't exist. And Thunderbolts,it's incorporated into the mainstream universe.
Again, apples to oranges, they're both fantasticmovies though, so let's just get along. John, what
do you think this podcast is all about? You gottatake a side. Now, I know on the Discord, your server

(05:05):
name is JohnTheFence because you say that you siton the fence between both sides. But as you know, we
like to make all of our patrons pick a side betweenMarvel and DC. And as the wise man once said, he who
sits on the fence has a stick up his butt. Yes, I haveheard the saying and I 100% agree with it. Yes, so
John gave pretty much a non-answer somethingabout, Oh, one's in a universe and one's not. I'm

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not sure what that has to do with the quality of eachfilm, but Watchmen was clearly the correct answer
here. Actually, that was Thunderbolts. But youknow, he's saying we're comparing apples to
oranges. Here's the thing, John, oranges are waybetter than apples. Fuck oranges. Orange juice.
Orange juice is fucking delicious, right? You canlike segment it off, you know, in little pieces.

(05:53):
Hell yeah, it's a way more versatile fruit.Oranges all the way. Except with apples, you get
apple jam, which is way better than orange jam. Youget apple soda again, way better than orange soda.
Demand. Apples are clearly the superior fruit.Wait, wait, wait, what the fuck is apple soda? I've
heard of orange soda. Have you never had an applesoda? I think maybe I did at one point, but then I

(06:14):
blocked it from my memory because it sucked. Youare a cultured piece of shit. Guys, are you team
Apple or team Orange? Let us know in the comments.Thanks for the answer, John. But the winner of this
week's No Price is Lorenzo Valdez. Who said? Thisis Lorenzo Valdez. I just got back to my condo after
watching Thunderbolts and I really enjoyed it.Florence Pugh is awesome. The most of the humor

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really worked for me, but I can't say it's betterthan Watchmen. I mean, Watchmen is such a
beautiful, elegant, thought-provoking, attimes, satirical, epic. And I love Watchmen. Clon
of Forever and Always. Bye-bye. And I love thisanswer. Watchmen is all of those things and more.

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Don't get me wrong, Thunderbolts is good, but it'sjust not at the same caliber as Watchmen. The film
by Zack Snyder is literally a piece of art. It's histour de force, in my opinion. The way everything
looked combined with the music, combined with theacting, combined with the story overall. Muah,
Chef's kiss. Oh, I'm sorry that the Thunderboltsmovie didn't have enough swinging blue dong for

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you guys. For a great answer, Lorenzo, you win thisweek's no prize, I guess. If you, the listener,
want to shout out winning your own no prize, staytuned to later on this episode, when we'll be
asking another question of the week. I gotta saysomething. And now that that's done, you're not
gonna let me say anything. On to the news. Alright,this past week we learned that Ryan Reynolds has

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been tasked with developing treatments for aDeadpool slash X-Men team-up movie. Now, he's
gone on the record before as saying that there'sprobably not gonna be another Deadpool solo
movie. I mean, Deadpool and Wolverine wasn't aDeadpool solo movie. You know, he shared billing
with Wolverine, but it's likely that there's notgonna be like another standalone Deadpool film.
It's gonna be more along the lines of an ensemblepiece with other mutant characters. Largely,

(08:14):
this is happening because, you know, Deadpool andWolverine grossed over a billion dollars at the
box office. And that has made Ryan Reynoldsprobably one of the most lucrative talents
working with Marvel Studios at this time. We don'tknow too much about the movie other than a few
details that the Hollywood Reporter released,including the news that the movie is only going to
feature three or four X-Men characters within itslineup with Deadpool playing a character on the

(08:39):
sidelines as a worm. Alright, so he's not one of thethree or four characters? Correct. So it's gonna
be Deadpool and Wolverine and somebody andsomebody and somebody is a way to look at this.
Well, how do you feel about this? Because, I mean,technically Deadpool and Wolverine, I guess, was
in the MCU. But this will kind of officially be theMCU's like first X-Men movie, like a team movie.

(09:04):
Well, we don't know that for sure because there'sanother X-Men movie in the works that's being
written by Michael Leslie, who wrote the HungerGames films. So that film is an X-Men film that's
different from this Ryan Reynolds Deadpool X-Menmovie. Oh, OK. So either that X-Men movie is gonna
come before this Deadpool team up or Deadpool'sgonna come first. I think what I would like to see as

(09:29):
a fan thinking about what X-Men storylinesDeadpool has been a part of, I think I'd like to see
the Deadpool team up movie come first and then leadinto the first official Marvel X-Men film. And if
they adapted the Messiah complex through theMessiah War storyline where we see the first
mutant being born and how cable and Deadpool andbasically all the mutants are striving to either

(09:55):
protect or kill or use this child who ends up beingHope Summers. I think that's a pretty good
foundation story leading into the revelationthat mutants exist in this post-secret wars
Marvel Universe. I don't know about that. For one,it's kind of paradoxical that they're mutants
hunting the first mutant. But also, I feel like thesooner we get to a like established Xavier school

(10:19):
with Professor X and Cyclops and Jean Grey atleast, the better. That's true. I mean, honestly,
in terms of how they release these films, I could goeither way. I think, yes, it would be better to have
all the classic X-Men elements in place prior to anew Deadpool team up movie. But if you were to put
the new Deadpool movie up first, I think there's away to adapt the Messiah complex there. And that

(10:42):
way you'd be able to bring back cable and you'd haveBishop and you could probably have Wolverine back
with Hugh Jackman. Tilly's fucking 90. This is allspeculation, but I will be really interested in
seeing which of these X-Men films comes out first.I think it's really smart to continue to use Ryan
Reynolds and the Deadpool character. I know theaudiences, including myself, are not really done

(11:04):
seeing films with him. I hope yet he continuesdoing this until he's 90 because the cinematic
character of Deadpool is just such a nationaltreasure. So unique. I'm pretty glad Ryan
Reynolds is getting this win. I think he's amarketing and writing genius. So I think this
project is in good hands with him. I agree. Butsince we don't know who's going to be in this

(11:26):
Deadpool X-Men team up movie, that brings us to ourquestion of the week. Including Deadpool, what
should be the roster for the X-Men Deadpool team upfilm? Again, we're looking for three to four
characters because that's the number that theHollywood Reporter gave. So we want to know who you
would like to see in that film. Recording youranswer at dynamicdool.com by clicking on the red

(11:48):
microphone button in the bottom right hand cornerof the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a
voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 secondslong and don't forget to leave your name in case we
include you on the podcast. We'll pick ourfavorite answer and award that person a Dynamic
Dool No Prize that we'll post to Instagram. Be sureto answer before May 10th. The Dark Knight's

(12:17):
definitive DC comic stories adapted directly foraudio for the very first time. Fear. I have to make
them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after himor have you shot? You mean blow up the building.
From this moment on, none of your safe. Newepisodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your

(12:41):
podcasts. But that does it for all the news for thisepisode, so let's go ahead and get into our main
event, where we review the latest Marvel Studiosfilm to hit theaters, Thunderbolts. Astros.
Thunderbolts. Thunderbolts was directed by JakeSchreer and stars Florence Pugh, Sebastian Stan,

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David Harbour, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, WyattRussell, Hannah John-Cammond, and Lewis
Pullman. The film is the fifth and final film ofMarvel's Phase 5, though we won't completely be
out of this phase until the Iron Heart televisionseries, which will be released in June. And then
Phase 6 will start in July with the Fantastic Fourfor Steps Movie. One of my bigger takeaways
walking out of the movie was that there were littleto no surprises in the film plot-wise. I think even

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in the confines of this podcast, just usspeculating on the film based on the trailers, you
and I guessed most of what the movie would be, sayfor the end credits scene. It's not a complicated
film with a complex story. That being said, if youhaven't seen it yet, I would still recommend going
to go see it because it's worth it. Just because theplot is simple doesn't mean that the movie is not

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good. Go see the movie, then come back and listen toour spoiler review. It also doesn't mean that the
movie is not a spectacle that should be watched onthe biggest screen possible. Yeah, there's a lot
of practical action in this movie. It foregoes CGIa lot, and I think that was pretty cool to see on the
big screen. So yeah, I'm starting out by sayingthat the plot is simple and straightforward, but

(14:22):
the story is simple in the way something likeReservoir Dogs is. That is to say, the plot is
uncomplicated, but the characters are anythingbut. The film really is more of a character study in
that it takes these very unique, established,anti-heroic characters and spends its time
exploring who they are and how they interact morethan doing stuff like expositing or world

(14:44):
building. That's pretty unique for a MarvelStudios project, and so right off the bat, the film
has an identity that's all its own that sets itapart from its contemporaries. Where you could
describe the typical Marvel film as, you know,exciting, funny, action-packed, flashy. The
Thunderbolts film could be described as moreauthentic, snappy, you know, it's nuanced, it's

(15:05):
mature. It's still loads of fun, though. And I'mnot going to say that these descriptors make
Thunderbolts better than other Marvel films ifthere are people out there thinking that I'm
knocking your average Marvel fare, but I do thinkthat it's fresher and therefore more important
for the genre as a whole, which seems to be flaggingamong general audiences, you know, and could use
some fresh material like this movie. Yeah, this isvery different from, say, Captain America Brave

(15:31):
New World, which felt more like a typical Marvelfilm to me. Thunderbolts is exactly what I was
hoping would come from Marvel Studios,considering we're kind of experiencing a genre of
fatigue amongst the film-going audiencescurrently. And I think this was a really smart
release on behalf of Marvel. And probably a cheapone, too. I mean, there's really only two, like,

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major locations throughout the entire film,which surprised me. Yeah, there's the Ox Vault in,
like, Utah, and then there's the Watchtower inManhattan. And really, the film takes place over a
matter of hours, if not, like a day or so. Again, thestory is pretty straightforward, and in that
regard, I think, less is more. It gave us time toreally sit down and observe these incredibly

(16:15):
complex characters in a way that we normallywouldn't otherwise if they're, you know, like the
Eternals circumventing the globe and setting upall this backstory and world-building for the
future. The movie, in effect, is almost theAnti-Eternals. That's exactly what I was
thinking as I was walking out of the theater.Really? Just comparing the Century to someone

(16:36):
like Icarus, I was like, man, I kind of wish theEternals didn't come out until, like, years from
now, as opposed to when it did, because it kind ofruined a lot of future Marvel films, in a way, I
think, because it was just so large in scale andwould obviously affect the larger Marvel world in
a way that they probably weren't ready for. To me,the Century was much more interesting of a

(16:58):
character than Icarus was. Yeah, I totally agree.That being said, I also liked Eternals. I liked how
kind of existential it was and how it also took adifferent approach to the superhero genre,
albeit, you know, a less successful one. You know,we did have someone on the Discord, and I can't
remember off the top of my head who, so I'm sorry fornot giving credit where credit is due, but someone
posited that perhaps the Golden Century Serumthat was created by Project Century in this movie

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used a bit of like Eternals DNA or something inthere, in conjunction with the Super Soldier
Serum, because the way the Century wouldsometimes glow golden was semi-reminiscent of
how the Eternals powers would manifest visually.Yeah, we never quite learned how they developed
the Century Superpowers, did we? No, I mean, it'sjust as vague as it was in the comic books, you know,

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where the government was trying to recreate theSuper Soldier Serum, and so they outsourced it to a
bunch of subcontractors, and then this highschool chemist professor ended up cracking the
case, and then one of his students, Bob Reynolds,broke into his lab and then drank the formula in an
attempt to get high. You know, they don't go toomuch into the specifics into, you know, what went
into the cauldron, as it were. We just know that itworked. And actually, one of the things I really

(18:08):
like about this film is how I didn't feel thatdespite all these different characters having
all of these different histories from otherMarvel projects, like films and television
series, that it felt like I needed to do homeworkbefore watching it. Like, honestly, I feel like
this could have been the first Marvel film I hadever seen, and I still would have mostly
understood everything. It was very standalone inthat way. For sure. I mean, the film is somewhat a

(18:34):
quasi-sequel to the first Black Widow film, but italso continues the story from the Captain America
franchise and the Falcon and the Winter Soldierand Ant-Man and the Wasp. But nowadays, you know,
that's not too much homework compared to some ofthe other Marvel films that have come out. This
movie was less interested in continuity, andreally, it seems like The Thunderbolts was made by
people who were less interested in the MCU as awhole, less interested in, you know, CGI and the

(18:58):
colorful spectacle, and they were moreinterested in practical action, grounded tones.
They were less concerned with the big players andmore interested in creating these portraits of
the universe's more sidelined characters. Andthat's to the film's benefit and detriment, I
think, because on one hand, you get theseinteresting explorations of themes like
depression and introspection, but on the otherhand, you have a film that treats some characters

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like Taskmaster and Songbird with such apathy forthe source material that they probably didn't
even need to be in the film to begin with. As a fan,mostly as a comic book fan, that sucks. Yeah,
Taskmaster was definitely done dirty here. Idon't understand why they chose to even include
her honestly, and regarding Songbird, I didn'teven know that was Songbird, or I wouldn't have

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known if you would not have mentioned it like lastepisode. For sure, yeah, they were both done
dirty. Like, Taskmaster was included in themarketing material, but she really only had one
line of dialogue this film and probably under aminute of action, and she was badass in the minute
that she had. You know, I understand that fans weredisappointed with the revelation in the Black
Widow film that Taskmaster was Antonia Drakov,but like, wasn't the character at the very least

(20:08):
worth redemption? And at the most, wasn't shestill a fucking badass? I think considering
Taskmaster's backstory in the MCU and her powerset, and even, you know, the actor who plays her,
Olga Korylenko, I think she would have made for aninteresting conclusion into this story. And
yeah, the filmmakers may say that they took her outearly in order to set the stakes for the film, but

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they treated her death as an afterthought. Like,there was like little to no impact there to even
make those stakes feel earned. Like, if they weregoing to kill her as a way to set the stakes, they
should have had the Void killer during his fightwith the Thunderbolts in order to increase the
stakes there. Like, that would have beenimpactful. Yeah, or the Void accidentally killed
her during their escape from the vault. Like, shefell down the elevator shaft or something like

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that. Something like that. That would have beenmore shocking than what happened. And as for
Songbird, like, I thought they included MelissaGold in this film because she was eventually going
to become the hero's Songbird, even if it was at theend as an end credit stinger or something. Like,
how do you include who is perhaps the most iconicand tenured member of the Thunderbolts from the
comics and not have her in this movie with her sonicpowers or any reference to her heroic persona?

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Like, the Melissa Gold character in this filmcould have been literally anybody. Her name could
have been like Trixie Tinklemuffin or whatever,and the movie would have been exactly the same.
It's like putting Harley Quinn in a Suicide Squadfilm and then just making her an assistant to
Amanda Waller. Well, I think it would have beenlike her as Harley and Quinzel sort of setting up
the character. That's what I got from this film. Igot no impression that we were ever going to see

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that assistant Melissa character again ever. Imean, when Valentina said that she was getting a
lesson in loyalty or something like that, Ithought there she was going to get like her sonic
powers, but then nothing came of that. I'm not sureit really would have fit into the film though.
Maybe not, but like again, even as an end creditstinger, something like that. You just can't put
the most iconic Thunderbolts member from thecomics in this movie and not have any reference to

(22:06):
Songbird whatsoever. Yeah, I guess they couldhave done that instead of the Wheaties box thing.
Yeah, exactly. That was funny though. It's kind oflike they put Songbird in this movie for
fanservice and then forgot to service us. Oh,shit. Like what's the opposite of fanservice? Fan
disrespect. There you go. There you go. I feel verydisrespected as a fan. In the grand scheme of the

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film though, those gripes could be considerednitpicking probably. I don't want my bitching to
negate the big thematic swings that the film tookin terms of things like self loathing and mental
health and what heroism looks like for people whodo not see themselves as heroes. That's stuff
that's not really explored in a lot of othersuperhero movies. Yeah, exactly. You mentioned
that the film felt like it was made by people whowere less interested in the MCU and more

(22:50):
interested in the characters. I kind of felt likeit was made by people who were more interested in
theme. And like you mentioned, the whole themehere is pretty much mental illness. Yeah, it's a
big one. You know, heroism is also a major theme. Ilike what the film had to say about all of that
because like, you know, we've gotten projectswith anti-heroes in them, like The Punisher or

(23:12):
Black Adam, but it's rare to see a project with ananti-hero questioning whether they could be an
actual hero. And I think that's fascinating.Like, what if The Punisher felt guilty over his use
of guns and instead picked up a shield? What ifBlack Adam took notes from Shazam? How would it
speak to their tragic histories? How would itredefine them as characters? Like, I'm not saying

(23:35):
that all anti-heroes should go through thisjourney. They shouldn't, you know, betray who
they are. But going from an anti-hero to a hero, Ithink, is a pretty interesting thought
experiment that they did well here in TheThunderbolts. Yeah, it's one that Bucky, I feel
like, has been going through for a long time andseeing that other characters in the MCU could
relate with that and kind of go on that journey withhim. Even though the film primarily focuses on

(23:58):
Yelena, I thought that was a cool dynamic and goodfor a team of characters within Marvel.
Absolutely. I want to talk more about that in thecharacter breakdown, but before we get there, I do
want to touch on the asterisk. The asterisk prettymuch meant what we all thought it would mean in that
The Thunderbolts team was not really TheThunderbolts, but actually a New Avengers team.

(24:19):
Like, when I saw that on the screen, I was like, ohyeah, called it, but it made me think that you have
to admire Marvel's tenacity in not marketing thisfilm as a New Avengers movie. Because I think
calling this movie New Avengers probably wouldhave accounted for a bigger box office opening. I
mean, this movie got a decent box office, but, youknow, The Thunderbolts name is not a household

(24:39):
brand like The Avengers is. They could have easilycalled this movie New Avengers, and they chose not
to, for the sake of art, we'll say. And I thinkthat's pretty admirable. Although I think the
whole thing was made moot by the end credits scenewhere it's revealed that, oh hey, they're not
actually The New Avengers. So they really are TheThunderbolts. They are The New Avengers. They're

(25:02):
just not the only Avengers out there. They'reAvengers with a Z, right? Oh my gosh. I mean, it
happened in the comic books where you hadsimultaneous Avengers teams going, especially
around the events of Norman Osborn's HammerOrganization, where he had his Avengers team, and
then you had the mighty Avengers, led by Luke Cage.So this dilemma is not without precedence within

(25:23):
the comic book. They were really fighting over,like, who was the true bearers of the Avengers
legacy, and I think that's an interesting thing toexplore. But you didn't answer my question about
Marvel's boldness in how they chose to market thisfilm. Slow clap for Marvel. Thank you. Slow clap.
Yeah. I don't really give a shit. Well, you're justa sellout, so whatever. Well, okay. I have no idea

(25:48):
what that means, but sure. Let's go to move on to ourcharacter breakdown. Starting with Black Widow,
a.k .a. Yelena Belova, played by Florence Pugh.Now Florence Pugh is such an interesting Yelena
Belova, largely because of how, like, deadpan anddry she is as an actress. I'm not sure if any other
actor could pull this version of Yelena off likeshe does. I think it makes her more interesting

(26:11):
than a lot of her peers, including, dare I say it,Scarlett Johansson as the Black Widow. In that
Yelena has a lot more going for herpersonality-wise in that she's funny, but she's
also flawed. She's also very endearing. She goesin this movie from being in a very deep depression
to refinding herself in a new family, TheThunderbolts, that's not too dissimilar from the

(26:33):
family she had as a kid with Natasha and Melina andAlexi. It's Alexi who helps her see past her own
flaws that she only sees in herself and helps herrealize that she's already more of a hero than she
likely ever thought she could be. I thought thatwas a fascinating journey. It's interesting to
hear you say that you think Yelena Belova is moreinteresting than Natasha. Right when you said

(26:54):
that, I was like, is that true? And I think it is,actually, because they really had a fight to give
Natasha a personality in a film like Avengers Ageof Ultron with the backstory that, oh, she's sad
because she can't have children. But it's likethat kind of felt like it was a few films too late, I
suppose. Whereas with Yelena, you're right,she's a lot more funny than Scarlett Johansson's

(27:17):
Black Widow. And I love just the tragic backstorythat they continue to expand upon for the
character. Well, I mean, Yelena's backstory isthe same as Natasha's backstory, right? So
they're very similar characters in that regard.They both grew up in the red room and had to go
through horrible things to get where they are. ButYelena's personality manifested a little bit
differently than Natasha's. You know, I thinkScarlett Johansson's character was well used in

(27:41):
films like The Winter Soldier or Civil War or evenher own film Black Widow. I think it was nice to get
the differences between the two sisters there.But I don't think anyone would deny that Florence
Pugh's Yelena Belova is just a terriblyfascinating character. She's more spunky. Yeah.
Let's move on to The Winter Soldier, aka BuckyBarnes, played by Sebastian Stan. You know,

(28:03):
Sebastian Stan's great as always as thecharacter. Here, Bucky really serves as the team
leader. You know, he's the precedent for takingyour sins from the past and transforming them from
a source of guilt to an impetus for change. He is thetemplate from which the rest of the characters can
base their journey off of because he's beenthrough it. And what's interesting is that here,

(28:24):
his journey takes him to Congress where he servesas a representative for the New York City area,
which I thought was interesting. It was a strangechoice considering, I don't think, political
diplomacy and blowing up bad guys really go hand inhand. And really, I'd be shocked if he was still a
congressman by the time we see him next as a newAvenger, which makes me wonder why they even

(28:46):
bothered to put Bucky into politics to begin with.I wouldn't say it was 100% necessary for this film.
It kind of seems like an element that they wanted toexplore early on, but then just kind of abandoned
while writing the script. But I think theyexplained that he, by joining the Thunderbolts
team, pretty much resigned his role as acongressman. Yeah, I think they did say that. It

(29:08):
was implied at least by Valentina. Right. To me, Ithought Bucky was sort of the least interesting
character in this film. I don't know if it'sbecause we've gone through his whole arc pretty
much already, but it also kind of felt likeSebastian Stan was kind of just going through the
motions with the role. I mean, that's the Buckycharacter, you know, he's tired. He's been

(29:29):
through a lot. He's fucking 100 years old. Andyeah, he's probably gone through most of his
journey, but it is nice to see him taking up thetorch for other characters in his place. That's
definitely an interesting direction to take theWinter Soldier. I hope that as a member of the New
Avenger, The Avengers. They give his arm all thecool upgrades that he has in the comic books like
the Metal Spike, the Taser arm, and like theFlamethrower. I think that'd be pretty badass.

(29:51):
Let's go ahead and move on to US Agent, aka JohnWalker, played by Wyatt Russell. Wyatt Russell
does a great job of playing the guy that you love tohate to love. His John Walker is so believably a
douchey asshole, yet somehow still charismaticenough to make you root for him as US Agent. I think
it's because he fills his performance with enoughinsecurity behind his facade that you know that

(30:14):
he's not actually coming from a place of arrogancenecessarily, but from a place of deep hurt. And I
think that makes him endearing. His whole arc wasabout wanting to be a hero that could live up to the
legacy of Captain America and he failed in TheFalcon and the Winter Soldier show. He failed in
his eyes and he failed in the public eye. So by theend of that show, he became more of an agent for
Valentina and by the end of this film, he'sstepping back into that hero role and you could

(30:38):
tell he was a little bit reticent to go back there,but he did it anyway because that's probably his
calling. Yeah, next to Yelena, he was probably myfavorite character in the film. I didn't really
like him in The Falcon and the Winter Soldierbecause of how much of a douchebag he was, but
somehow, yeah, you're right, that made himendearing in this movie and relatable in a way
because, you know, as a father, I'm probablyguilty of looking at my phone when I should

(31:02):
probably be interacting with my daughter. So thatkind of cut deep. Oh, yeah, I think as parents
nowadays, we've all done that, but his big mistakewas that he left his family. Oh, I thought they left
him. Yeah, one of those two things, but it justadded to the tragedy because like Ghost was asking
Kim how he balanced it all and he's just like, you dowhat you got to do. And then later on, it was
revealed as they were chained up in the garage thathe wasn't even a family man anymore. He didn't have

(31:27):
everything. He didn't have it all. A quick notehere. I really love how by when the end credits came
along, he still had his shield taco. It was like howmany months later after the events of this film was
the end credits and yet he was still sticking withthat bent shield almost like he had come to just
accept it. I thought that was hilarious. I thoughtthat was super dumb. I did not get that. Let's go

(31:49):
ahead and move on to the Sentry, aka Bob Reynolds,played by Lewis Pullman. It sucks so much to see how
much of a revelation Lewis Pullman was in thisrole, to see how much nuance and believability the
actor brought to this very difficult role and yetstill wonder how Stephen Yuen would have pulled it
off. Oh, no, just watching this, I was like, thisactor was so perfect for this role. I am so glad they

(32:13):
replaced Stephen Yuen. I mean, it's Yuen's loss,right? Because the Sentry has long been one of
Marvel's most psychologically complex heroes.And it seems like such a meaty role for any actor to
sink his teeth into. Oh, yeah. I thought Pullmanbrought layers to his performance with every
subtlety, every weird posture or shy smile or handtwitch. I think he realistically portrayed

(32:36):
mental illness in a way that felt, I guess,respectful for those who suffer from any
psychological affliction. It just felt real andnot like a caricature of mental illness. You know,
there were times where he was scary and there weretimes where he was funny. There were times where he
was heartwrenchingly sympathetic. I think hisBob Reynolds is by far one of the MCU's most

(32:57):
interesting characters. And I can see him growingin the role in much the same way Tom Hiddleston did
as Loki, because there's just so much going onbehind the performance and so much space to
explore and to grow from here. I have never been abig fan of the Sentry as a character. I always kind
of saw him as an April Fools Superman knockoffcharacter. But his performance made me really

(33:22):
appreciate aspects of the Sentry that I hadn'treally before. Yeah, the whole mental illness
thing is unique to the character, right? He is BobReynolds, the addict. He is also the Sentry, the
all powerful hero. He is also the void, a soulleading pit of darkness. I was surprised that they
went as hard into that as they did with this film. Ithought maybe they were just going to kind of

(33:43):
tangentially address that. But no, that wholerelationship of the beings that are the Sentry
kind of became the crux of the film. Oh, yeah, no,absolutely. I mean, it was the stakes of the film.
It was the climax of the film, them going up againstthis dark side of the character. I jokingly texted
you right after I saw the movie saying that thisfilm was essentially an MCU version of My Little

(34:07):
Pony and the whole like friendship is magic thing.And the bad guys defeated in the end by a group hug.
That said, they did an unbelievably good job ofmaking that work for the audience in a way that
surprised me. Well, I didn't know what you meant bythat My Little Pony text message that you sent me
because I'm not a brony like you. OK, I have twodaughters that are older than your daughter. I

(34:33):
still I have no idea what reference I've neverwatched My Little Pony. So I don't know exactly
what you're saying. I'm saying everything wassolved by the power of friendship and a group hug at
the end. It's not like they defeat the void in thecomic books in any less roundabout manner. In the
books, they have to defeat the void by essentiallymaking everybody forget about the Sentry and Bob

(34:54):
Reynolds and the void to begin with. There's noeasy solution there. You can't just take him down
by force. So I don't I don't begrudge the filmtaking that kind of approach of the group hug,
where really they're trying to solve the issue ofthe void through therapy, right? Well, I don't
begrudge it either. That's what I'm saying. I'msaying like I feel like I should, but they did it so

(35:14):
well that I don't. Yeah. I mean, one of the mainthemes of the movie was mental illness. So the fact
that it was therapy that helped solve everything.I think that's what makes it work. What did you
think of the Sentry's powers in this movie?Because they were a little bit different from what
they are in the comic. Yeah, they focused a lot moreon telekinesis, which is not really something
that I know the Sentry to have in the books. For thevoid, they really focused on his telepathic

(35:39):
powers, which I thought was pretty interesting.He was kind of like a psychic entity on the astral
plane, right? He was bringing all these peopleinto his astral realm where they would live out
their biggest regrets in life or their mostdepressing moments or something like that. It was
different from what I know in the books, but Iwouldn't say that it's out of the concept for the
Sentry. You know, the Sentry is supposed to be thisall powerful being void is supposed to be this soul

(36:02):
sucking dark creature. I think it all works. In thefuture, I would like to see them use less
telekinesis for the character and focus more onhis strength. I don't know if they were just doing
that in an attempt to make him seem less likeSuperman or not, but it was strange to me. I want to
see them focus more on his light powers. Yes. Yeah,that would be good. Let's move on to Red Guardian,

(36:23):
a.k .a. Alexi Shostakov, played by David Harbour.I love David Harbour in this role. You know, we
mentioned he was great in the Black Widow movie,mostly as comic relief. And he plays the role of
comic relief in this movie, too. But he also servesas a beacon for the team and especially Yelena on
how to be a hero. He was the first one in Manhattan tojust do what was right and do what came naturally to

(36:45):
him by saving these people. And he seemed to see theheroic side in his teammates and believed in them
more than they believed in themselves. And hecheered them on. It was awesome. But his arc was
interesting in that, you know, you can view itcynically because I was trying to think about what
his motivations were. And you could say that he waspushing a heroic agenda on these people so that he

(37:05):
could selfishly live out his old glory days. But Ithink when you look at David Harbour's
performance, it kind of pushes that cynicism awaybecause there's such honesty to his optimism and
in his lovable buffoonery. Yeah, he's justexcited about being a hero and helping people.
There's perks that come with it, and he definitelytakes advantage of those. Like the Weedies box.

(37:27):
Yeah, exactly. But I also felt like he genuinelywants to help. Yeah, he was a great mentor figure in
this movie. And I liked him here a lot more than I didin the Black Widow movie. There he kind of got
annoying to me. And I thought he was going to beannoying in this film as well. But I was just
surprised to think about how well he helped directYelena's arc through the conversations he had

(37:49):
with her at the beginning. And right before theclimax, it worked really well. I don't think David
Harbour was annoying in the Black Widow film. Ithought it was great. I did think his character was
annoying in the What If episode that he shared withBucky. I think the dynamic that we got between the
Winter Soldier and the Red Guardian in this moviewas better than that entire What If episode. Oh,

(38:10):
yeah. Regarding his look, it was nice to see himcleaned up during the Weedies mid-credits scene.
But then by the time the end credits scene rolledaround, he was back to having a completely shaped
head with a really long wild man beard. So I thoughtthat was a little bit weird the way they jumped
between his looks from the movie to themid-credits scene to the end credits scene. The

(38:31):
inconsistency just was strange. Yeah, all ofthose characters had interesting looks in the
final end credits scene. I didn't really care forany of them, honestly. Really? Yeah. They all look
like wigs, right? Right. It was just a little toopolished, a little too like 70s. I don't know.
Well, that's how they'll look in the upcomingAvengers Doomsday movie because the end credits

(38:52):
scene was filmed on that set. Let's go ahead andmove on to Ghost, a.k .a. Ava Star, played by Hannah
John-Kamen. So Ghost was a character thatappeared in this film. Yeah, she didn't really
contribute to anything too much other thangetting them out of the vault. Yeah, I feel like

(39:13):
there's not a whole lot to say about Ghost. Sheseemed really just along for the ride, for the most
part, without any notable motivations orcharacter building. We do know from Ant-Man and
the Wasp that she had a painful childhood with herchronic quantum instability. You know, we know
that she became an assassin for Shield and tried tosteal the quantum tunnel from Hank Pym, and was

(39:34):
subsequently healed at the end of that movie byJanet Van Dyne. But I don't think I learned
anything really new about Ghost in theThunderbolts movie. And I'm sure there are like
probably things from her past that she regrets,but we never got to see any of that. We never got any
specifics on her regrets. I think it would havebeen nice to have gotten a vision from the void with

(39:56):
her character. Or any of the other charactersbesides Yelena and US Agent. Right. Really, Ghost
just seemed to hang around because she has a coolpower set. But I feel like the character of
Taskmaster probably would have been moreinteresting to explore in terms of past regrets
and becoming a hero. I don't know. I'm still justsalty about Taskmaster at the end of the day. Let's

(40:18):
move on to the Contessa Valentina Allegra daFontaine, played by Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Julia
Louis-Dreyfus is a whole lot of fun to watchbecause she's such an intelligent actor who can
deliver lines like they were all written by AaronSorkin or something like that. I think that's her
special ability as an actress. Really, much of thedialogue in this movie was written by Joanna
Collow, who wrote The Bear for FX. So that may havesomething to do with how enjoyable Julia's

(40:43):
performance was. But I thought she was great. Shewas actually more enjoyable in this role than I
thought she was going to be. I do wish that we gotmore information on her motivations. Like we did
get a vision with her character where she was ayoung child in Italy and her parents were freedom
fighters going up against the suppressiveregime. Or maybe it was a mob thing. It wasn't quite
clear because she's certainly not old enough to bea child during like World War Two. But whatever

(41:09):
happened there didn't really serve to inform herdecisions in this movie, unless that is to say she
learned that fear and power can be valuable toolsin life. I'm not quite sure what to read off of that
memory that she had. But there's still a lot ofquestions around her character, like is she
acting alone? We never really got to learn thingslike that here. I kind of got the impression that

(41:30):
her character is all about having more power thananyone else who can use it against her. Because
what she witnessed as a child left her feeling verypowerless. And she is threatened by other
countries like Wakanda, who may again be morepowerful than her and she doesn't want that.

(41:52):
That's a great way to read into it. Yeah, hercharacter is very, very similar to Amanda Waller,
who I think has a similar viewpoint in regards topower and obtaining power and using power because
of her tragic backstory as well. I very much sawValentina as the analog of Amanda Waller in this

(42:12):
film. Yes, like she's Amanda Waller, but with anactual personality. How dare you, sir? Biola
Davis would kick your ass for saying that. And I'llhave Julie Louis Dreyfus backing me up. She has way
more personality than Amanda Waller. Probably myfavorite moment in the film involves Valentina
when the century just kicked the asses of theThunderbolts characters and they're going down

(42:36):
in the elevator and she's like, and you're going todo what I say. And he's like, why? And then she just
looks at him and she's like, what? I loved thatmoment. It was just perfectly acted by Julie Louis
Dreyfus and Louis Pullman. I'll tell you about myfavorite moment when we get into the story
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(43:07):
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(43:31):
champions clash every Thursday. Join us as wespeculate on the matches and armed with the power
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where we settle the debate and settle the score. InKuala Lumpur, Malaysia, mercenary Yelena Beloba

(43:53):
destroys evidence of a lab belonging to the OXE orOx Corp. In Washington, D.C., CIA director
Valentina Allegra de Fontaine testifies in herimpeachment trial, where a congressional
subcommittee investigates her involvement inOx's potential illegal activity, including
human experimentation to create superhumans.Defending her actions as necessary in a world

(44:14):
without Avengers, she orders her assistantMelissa Gold to destroy all of Ox's evidence and
loose ends. After visiting her surrogatepaternal figure, Alexi, Yelena resolves to
better her life and come out of her depression bybecoming more of a hero like her late sister. She
accepts a mission from Valentina to stop acorporate spy at a covert ox vault in Utah. I

(44:35):
thought the opening scene was really well done.You know, a lot of the marketing of the film went
into Florence Pugh's actual practical stunt ofdiving off of the Madurka 118 in Kuala Lumpur. It
was actually a pretty impressive stunt that Ithought did a great job with like its natural
lighting and everything like that, of reallysetting the tone of the cinematography and the

(44:56):
practical action that we would be getting in thecourse of the film. Yeah, I believe that's the
second tallest building in the world if I'm notmistaken. Right, yeah. Arriving at the vault,
Yelena finds evidence of Project Sentry beforebeing attacked by US agent John Walker, who in turn
is attacked by Taskmaster, who is in turn attackedby Ghost Yelena's target. After a fight in which

(45:16):
Ghost kills Taskmaster, the group meets Bob, whostumbled out of an ox containment pod. Confused,
they determined that they've all worked forValentina and were sent to the vault to be
eliminated as loose ends. At a gala in Washington,DC, New York congressman, Bucky, tries to
convince Valentina's assistant, Melissa, todivulge incriminating information on her.
Despite the fact that Taskmaster went out dirty atthe end of that fight scene, I did think that was a

(45:41):
pretty damn cool fight scene that was kind ofreminiscent to how we describe and speculate the
battles within our dual episodes. You know, it waslike a lot of like causality. This leads to this
leads to this leads to this. I thought there wasjust kind of like a great story kind of being told
through the action of their fight. It may be wonderlike what all their stats were and what it would

(46:03):
look like if I plugged them all into the simulator.Yeah, it was a really cool fight. I don't think I've
mentioned this yet, but I really like Ghost's newlook in this film. They all looked really cool. I
don't know, but I really liked her look in M.N. andthe Wasp, too. Her white suit, that was pretty
badass. I do like her new helmet, though. Yeah,yeah, that's really cool. Back in the vault, the
group escapes being incinerated. While makingcontact with Bob, Yelena has a vision of a

(46:27):
childhood memory when she got another girlkilled. Valentina learns about the group's
survival in the vaults and plans to send a squadafter them, a plot that Alexi overhears as her limo
driver. Melissa reaches out to Bucky and lets himknow that Valentina is plotting something at the
ox vault. Which, holy cow, how irresponsible ofValentina to just riff in the back of a limo and let

(46:50):
the limo driver hear what she's saying. Yeah, itwas a little convenient, especially having Alexi
turn out to be the limo driver. But, I don't know, Ialso thought it was kind of clever, story-wise.
Yeah, it was a nice way to get him involved. Yeah.Back of the vault, the group, jokingly referred to
by Yelena as the Thunderbolts, her Peewee soccerteam, attempts to climb an elevator shaft. At the

(47:12):
top, Walker has a memory of his family leaving him,a vision also induced by contact with Bob. They
fight some of Valentina's forces, taking theirgear as a disguise and attempt to steal a truck to
escape. When stopped at a checkpoint, Bob createsa diversion by drawing enemy fire and is revealed
to be invulnerable. Thunderbolts escape as Bobattempts to fly, but he crash lands and is

(47:34):
captured. The elevator shaft scene washorrifying in some aspects. Oh yeah, absolutely.
Like, not only did it trigger claustrophobia inme, but also it made me really not want to skip leg
day the next day I ever do leg day, because thatwould have sucked. Yeah, that would have been
really hard. It was funny how it seems to work andthen they got to the top and they were like, well,

(47:58):
what happens now? And I was like, oh yeah, what doeshappen now? It was an interesting ethical
experiment because there was no way that they allwould be able to survive, despite the fact that
they all needed each other to even get to the top ofthe shaft. Right. The way they pulled it off,
though, I thought was pretty neat. And by pull itoff, I mean, survive US agents general
douchebaggery. It did make me wonder why, though,if Yelena had a grappling hook, launcher,

(48:23):
mantetour, wrist, which she used to save Bob, shecould have easily used that to get to the top of the
elevator shaft, or at least, you know, get all ofthem through the shaft safely. That's true. Yeah,
she definitely could have used it as a means to getthem all up. And really, Bob wouldn't have died
from that fall either. He would have found out thathe was invulnerable and then probably learned how

(48:44):
to fly from there. But I thought it was an excitingmoment nonetheless. Yeah, definitely. As the
Thunderbolts escape into the desert, they arerescued by a lexie in his limo and are pursued by an
ox military convoy. They're saved by Bucky on hismotorcycle, who captures the team in order to
bring them in as evidence against Valentina. InNew York, Bob is brought to the former Avengers
Tower, renamed by Valentina as the Watchtower.She manipulates him into becoming a hero under her

(49:10):
control known as the Sentry. Holding theThunderbolts in a garage, Bucky learns from
Melissa and corroborates with the team that Bob'spower and instability will threaten New York.
Now, this brings me to my favorite moment in themovie, which I think was the funniest moment,
which was the Molotov cocktail, where you havethis thrilling chase and a lexie is yelling for the

(49:32):
vodka and they give it to him and he like takes aswig. You're not sure where he's going with this.
You think maybe he's just getting drunk, but hecreates a Molotov cocktail out of it, lights it on
fire like a badass. He tosses it out of the windowand it bullseyes the convoy exactly as he intended
to little to no effect, which was the joke. But itwas a good throw, right? It was a great throw. Just

(49:55):
the subversion that I thought was so hilarious. Ireally liked how the redesign of the Avengers
Tower by Valentina was making it look more like theSentry Watch Tower in the comic books, where I had
those like black curved elements coming out theside of it. I thought that was a really clever way to
incorporate the Sentry's headquarters into thatbuilding, because in the comic books, he had

(50:18):
established his headquarters on top of StarkTower when he was a member of the New Avengers.
That's right. Yeah, totally forgot about that. Hewas a member of that team. The Thunderbolts crash
their van into the Watch Tower where they'reinvited to the penthouse to meet Bob as the Sentry.
Valentina reveals her plan for the Thunderboltsto be discredited as rogue criminals in the media
when they try to stop the Sentry, now branded asEarth's mightiest hero. The team tries to defeat

(50:42):
Bob anyway and are easily defeated and forced toretreat. Bob's instability has him turn on
Valentina and he transforms into the Void. As mostof the Thunderbolts give up after their defeat,
they witness the Void begin terrorizingManhattan. One by one, they begin doing what they
can to save who they can. It was pretty telling to mehow in the fantastic scene where the Thunderbolts

(51:05):
characters meet with Valentina at the penthouse,and she just begins insulting each and every one of
them, except for Ghost, who she's just like, ohyeah, Ghost. Oh, and Yelena, you look terrible.
The fact that she didn't insult Ghost like theothers just kind of proved the point that Ghost
really wasn't a big enough character in the movieto insult. Yeah, she was kind of a little bit more

(51:30):
pointless in that regard. I bet you that Valentinawould have had some stuff to say about Taskmaster.
I don't know. I liked the fight against the Sentry.Again, I do wish there was less telekinesis, but it
was cool to see them, you know, give their allagainst this all powerful being. What can you do at
that point but retreat? And Alexi's pep talk toYelena, where she's telling him that all she sees

(51:50):
in herself are these flaws and she's such ahorrible person. But he refers to this instance in
her life where she chose to be the goalie of herThunderbolts Pee Wee team, not because she was
lazy and didn't want to run like she thought, butbecause she said she wanted to be the one people
could count on if they made a mistake. It was such atouching heartfelt moment to just build her up in

(52:14):
that way and tell her that she's better than shethinks she is, you know. I was kind of confused how
the void took over the Sentry character when theSentry was dead. But I also thought that the void
was a very effective villain, like very scary,especially with the display of his powers, how he
just essentially turned everyone into theseshadows. And the fact that it affected like

(52:39):
everyone in New York City was even moreterrifying. Yeah, when he first used it against
that little girl that Alexi had saved, you know,like she smiled at the Red Guardian and then all of a
sudden she just disappeared. Like all of hisactions were for naught in that very heroic
moment. And there was just something reallydisheartening about that that made the void such a
compelling villain. As the void's darknessspreads, Yelena steps into it and finds herself

(53:03):
back in her previous vision. She breaks through toother difficult times in her life, such as the
Black Widow training program and her time as analcoholic. She ends up finding Bob in his own
memory in his childhood attic. The rest of theThunderbolts end up finding them by entering the
void as well. Together they fight off Bob's abuseof stepfather, a sign twirling chicken high on
meth, and the void himself at the Ox Lab where Bobunderwent the Sentry project. Bob tries to

(53:29):
overpower the void through violence, but the teamlearns the only way to overcome the void is through
healing Bob's trauma and showing him he's notalone. The chicken twirling moment was so damn
good. I was cracking up in the theater. Srishten,he was like, I was high at the time. Just knowing
that something like that happened is funny.Seeing the Thunderbolts fight a high sign

(53:52):
twirling chicken was not on my bingo card for thisyear. No, it's definitely the biggest surprise of
the movie, I would say. It was a great gag, though.As silly as it was, it didn't overstay its welcome,
thankfully. They didn't have a whole scene of themfighting the chicken. They were in and out, but it
worked so well because of that. Going back toYelena's trauma about having her friend killed,

(54:14):
man, I really have to wonder what this 12-year-oldgirl did to deserve an assassination from the Red
Room. I think the Red Room was in the practice ofweeding out the girls that didn't perform to their
expectations. Oh, you thought that girl was amember of the Red Room as well. OK, well, that makes
sense. Yeah, real dark shit. Real dark shit. Superdark. It was also really dark seeing Yelena Bolova

(54:38):
on the bathroom floor with all the bottles aroundher. There wasn't really much to that
performance, but it was still very powerful.Seeing Florence Pugh like that. Back on the
streets of Manhattan, the city returns to normalas the void disappears. The Thunderbolts see
Valentina and try to apprehend her, only tostumble onto a press briefing she arranged,
announcing the team as the new Avengers. Yelenawarns her that they own her now. In a mid-credits

(55:02):
scene, Red Guardian tries to get a grocery storepatron to notice him on a weedy cereal box. After
the end credits, the new Avengers debate how toaddress Sam Wilson's Avengers team, and they
notice a distress signal from outer space comingfrom a ship bearing the Fantastic Four emblem. I am
curious what you thought about the sort of endreckoning with Valentina or the lack thereof, I

(55:24):
should say. So the lack of closure with Valentinawasn't surprising to me. And I'm not sure what it
would have looked like if she did get hercomeuppance. Obviously, she would be impeached.
She would probably go to jail. But even then, atleast like in the comic books, we still wouldn't
have seen the end of her. It kind of felt like theThunderbolts traded justice for fame. They kind

(55:45):
of traded justice for an opportunity, I think, tobe the people they wanted to be. I think they found a
way to manipulate the situation and really giveValentina her comeuppance by being in control of
her as opposed to the other way around. Did youthink that that was like in character for someone
like Bucky, though? Sure. I think so. Yeah, I mean,he's been an anti-hero before. I think in this

(56:11):
regard, they would all see that the ends justifythe means. And I think he sees the benefit a new
Avengers team would have, especially usingValentina's resources. I think he sees that as the
greater good. Again, I don't think this is anabsence of justice so much as a kind of twisting of
it to suit their needs. I didn't love the ending,I'll be honest, because it did feel like justice

(56:32):
was not met and it did feel very shallow on behalf ofthe team members. It's one of the few things I
really didn't like about the film. I kind of likedthe subversion of the ending, actually. It was
anti-heroes being anti-heroes. But that's thefilm overall. I think the film stands out as a
unique entry from Marvel. And I think because ofthat, it'll be appreciated more by fans and

(56:56):
general audiences who I don't think necessarilyare tired of Marvel. They're just looking for
something new and different. And I think thatprioritizing introspection over exposition,
The Thunderbolts film uniquely delivers one ofthe more mature and thoughtful experiences in
Marvel's film catalog. I am giving it four and ahalf out of five stars, a fresh rating on Rotten

(57:18):
Tomatoes. Which is a really high rating. It's onlyhalf a star away from a perfect rating. But I would
actually agree with it. Now, this is the samerating we gave Watchmen and the Suicide Squad.
Well, I still think those are better films thanthis. I also can't see giving this a lower rating
because it was just so well executed. It's muchmore simple than those films. And I think in part

(57:43):
that's why it feels a little bit more pure in termsof like a character study that they were going for.
I thought they nailed the execution of this film.Yeah, it's nice for Marvel to have a movie like
this, I think, in their filmography. Oh,absolutely. For sure. But that does it for this
review. AJ9K helped close us out. Our next episodeis going to be a dual episode where we find out who

(58:37):
would win in a fight between the DC hero Ray and theMarvel mutant character Havoc. Yeah, two of the
coolest and more interesting looking charactersin either universe. Definitely looking forward
to this matchup. But that does it for this episode.We want to give a big thanks to our executive
producers. John Straussky, Zachary Hepburn,Dustin Balcombe, Mickey Mathen-Gian, Brandon

(58:57):
Esregard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yatyn, AustinWieselowski, A.J. Dunkerly, Nick Cabanto, Scott
Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Speese, Dean Malesky,Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting, Josh Leiner, Mike
Williams, Oscar Galvez and our newest executiveproducer, Paul Graves, for helping make this
podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next weekup, up and away. True believers. Honestly, I just 637 00:59:21,860 --> thought the asterisk was going to be a symbol for a butthole.

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