Watchmen Chapter II Review

Episode Transcript
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This is a DynaMic Network podcast.

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and peruse our merchandise, accessories, posters,calendars. Again, Jonathan and I are donating
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So support our show, support A Great Cause,and do it in a timely fashion because you're
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Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where wereview superhero films and debate the superiority
between Marvel and DC by comparing their charactersin stat-based battle simulations. I'm Johnny
DC. And I'm his twin brother Marvelous Joe.And in this episode, we are reviewing the conclusion
of the two-part Watchmen animated adaptationWatchmen Chapter 2. I can't say I was looking

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forward to watching it. because the first oneI thought was very, very redundant. And you'll
find out later on in this episode whether Ithought the same about chapter two. So Jonathan,
I was thinking we watched the Watchmen, right?And the listeners are listening to us talk
about watching the Watchmen. So are they watchingus watch the Watchmen? They're the watchers

(02:00):
of the Watchmen watching the Watchmen. Answeringthe real philosophical questions on this podcast.
Before we dive even more into the philosophyof the Watchmen, we're going to break down
the comic book movie news from the past week,of which there was just one news item, and
that was the reveal that Rob Hardy is the cinematographerfor Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow. As always
guys, we list our segment times and our episodedescription, so feel free to check out the

(02:23):
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out at patreon.com slash dynamicduel. Pip pipcheerio. Thanks Adrian and Kane, thanks to
everyone who supports the podcast. Guys, besure to tune in to the other shows on the DynaMic
podcast network this week, including Max Destruction,which pits your favorite action heroes from
film and television against each other. HostsScotty and Gilly are taking a break for the
holidays, so now is the perfect time to getcaught up on their back catalog of episodes

(03:33):
if you missed any. On the Sendrow World podcast,host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between
fan favorite anime and manga characters. ThisThursday, Zach will reveal who would win in
a fight between Tsuna-Dei from Naruto Unohanafrom Bleach.

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Definitely make sure to check that out by visitingdynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our
show notes to listen to all of the shows inthe DynaMic Podcast Network. But with that
out of the way, quick to the No Prize! A NoPrize is an award Marvel used to give out to
fans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize,is a digital award that we post on Instagram

(04:38):
for the person that we feel gave the best answerto our question of the week. Last week we asked
you guys, or not last week, it was like twoweeks ago, we asked... What Marvel character
would you cast former 007 actor George Lazenbyas and why? And this is coming off of the news
that Daniel Craig is currently negotiating adeal with DC to play Sergeant Rock in an upcoming

(05:01):
Sergeant Rock film. And I, being a huge 007James Bond fan, was super jealous because it
seems like all the currently living Bond actorshave gotten DC roles but not Marvel roles.
Of course, you had Pierce Brosnan as Dr. Fate.You had Timothy Dalton as the chief from Doom
Patrol. You even had Sean Connery as Alan Quartermainein the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which

(05:21):
came from a DC imprint. George Lazenby though,he's still kicking, and we gotta get him a
Marvel role so that we could have some 007 inthe MCU. And we got a lot of answers actually.
Yeah, way more than I thought we would actuallyget. We're gonna break down this week's honorable
mentions before revealing the no prize winner.Our first honorable mention goes to Cyrus Moore,

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who said, Hey guys, Cyrus Moore here. Uh, GeorgeLazenby would be a perfect old man Hawkeye,
I believe. And DC side, just I know you guysdidn't ask, but I think he'd be a perfect Alan
Scott. Uh, but old man Hawkeye? Oh, that'd befantastic. He's kind of already got the look
that matches the old man Hawkeye comic bookseries, so it just be flawless. Yeah, that's

(06:08):
a fantastic answer. You know, Old Man Hawkeyeis a character established in the world of
the Old Man Logan series, and Old Man Hawkeyeeven got his own comic book. George Lazenby,
I think, would be great in the role. Not justbecause, like, he has a great sense of humor,
but also because I feel like George Lazenbyis kind of, like, seen as the Hawkeye of the
James Bond actors, and that he doesn't seemquite as relevant because he was only in one

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film, so, yeah, I think there's a lot of throughlines there, and I think Lazenby could pull
it off. How old is George Lazenby? Uh, dudeis 85 years old right now. Oh snap. Yeah, pretty
up there. Well, I mean, Ellen Scott is an oldguy. I could totally see George Lazenby playing
Kim. Like you'd probably have to do CG workfor the action shots, but just do it from far

(06:48):
away. It'll be it'll work out. It'll work out.Plus, George Lazenby is pretty dapper, as is
Ellen Scott. I actually think Ellen Scott wouldbe a better choice for George Lazenby than
Old Man Hawkeye. You might be right, becauselike Old Man Hawkeye has long hair. And I don't
know if I could see Lazenby pulling off thatlook. Our next honorable mention goes to Mike
Williams. who said,

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Yeah, coming off of our recent duel matchupof Black Mask versus Madame Mask, I think this
was a great answer. We know that Madame Mask,of course, is the daughter of Count Nefaria,
who was a leader within the Magia crime familyin the world of Marvel. And yeah, I could totally
see Laysen be as like the patriarch of a mafiacrime family for sure. Yeah, that would be

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kind of cool. Almost like a Marlon Brando-esquetype role. There you go. Yeah. Take that vibe
and then add superpowers to it. I think yougot yourself a good Count Nefaria with George
Lazenby in the role. Great answer, Mike! Ournext honorable mention goes to Mason Thompson,
who said, Hey guys, so first thing I saw whenI looked at some photos of him, Uncle Ben.

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Maybe he's in the multiverse as an Uncle Ben.And he comes to our universe, gives our universe,
the Spider-Man, a little motivation, somethinglike that. But if we're talking like Prime,
when he was in his Prime, he's He's Tony Stark.Look at him and tell me he's not Tony Stark.
Give him a little goatee and he's Iron Man.Great answer. Yeah, actually, Uncle Ben was

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the answer that I immediately thought of. AndI was really hoping like people out there would
come up with better options than just havinghim as Uncle Ben. But the problem I had with
casting George Lazenby as Uncle Ben is thateven though he looks exactly like him nowadays,
the MCU Uncle Ben would have to be a lot youngerto have dated Marissa Tomei's. Aunt May, right?

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Maybe. But then Mason Thompson reminded me thatthe multiverse is a thing, so he could always
be a multiversal Uncle Ben. I think it totallyworks. Mason also went on to say that the prime
version of George Lazenby, you know, back in1969 when he played Bond, would make a great
Tony Stark. And I don't disagree. I think alot of the James Bond actors would make a great
Tony Stark. In fact, if I recall correctly,artist Alex Ross paints his version of Tony

(09:21):
Stark. in the likeness of Timothy Dalton, whowas another James Bond actor. Oh, man, I need
to look this up. Yeah, look up Alex Ross, TonyStark. Oh, holy cow, he does. That's awesome.
So there are definitely like parallels betweenthe Stark and James Bond character. And thanks
to Mason Thompson for reminding us all aboutthat. I want to give a quick shout out to Colby

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Hentges, who. called in with the answer of Silvermane,but also suggested that Aaron Taylor Johnson
would be a good choice for the next 007 afterDaniel Craig, and he's totally my choice as
well. Also shout out to Judson Batty, who actuallygave a DC answer. He said George Lazenbeek
could play Uncle Marvel from the Captain MarvelShazam family. And a dishonorable mention to

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Miggy for not having the imagination or trustin his fellow listeners to produce answers
for this question. It was just crickets. Buthe said on behalf of everybody. But the winner
of this week's snow prize is Brandon Estregard,who said. Hey guys, I would cast George Lazenby
as the original human torch, Jim Hammond, forthree reasons. One, they were both ornate created

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in the same year, 1939, which was also the yearthat World War II started. Two, you can cast
him at his current age and give him a cameolike how Hank had his World War II amman cameo
in the original amman movie. And three, everyBond actor deserves an iconic role. I really
liked this answer. Of course, Brandon said that...George Liza to be could play the original Human

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Torch, who was the superhero on the very firstissue of the very first Marvel comic book ever.
The original Human Torch was not a member ofthe Fantastic Four. Of course, Marvel fans
know that he was an android named Jim Hammond,who was created by Dr. Phineas Horton. I go
a little bit into his backstory in the Visionvs. Marsha Manhunter duel episode that we have.

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But yeah, the android was actually briefly featured.in the Captain America movie when Steve Rogers
and Bucky went to the World's Fair with theirdates. Jim Hammond's Human Torch was a hugely
influential World War II hero and it would bereally cool to see him show up in the MCU as
George Lazenby. I thought it was a really coolfactoid that Brandon pointed out that the Human

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Torch comic book character and George Lazenbywere both born in the same year of 1939. Yeah,
it might be even cool to see that version ofthe Human Torch. appear in the upcoming Vision
television series, considering the character'sbackstory. Oh yeah, that would be totally great.
No matter how it happens, we just gotta getthis Bond actor in a Marvel role, cuz screw

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DC for taking in all the 007 actors. But thanksto everyone who called in, congrats to Brandon
Eschergard for winning this week's No Prize.If you the listener want a shot at winning
your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on thisepisode when we'll be asking another question
of the week. And now that that's done… No SCREWMARVEL! And onto the news!

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Alright, over a week ago, James Gunn revealedon threads in a conversation there that Rob
Hardy, a veteran cinematographer in Hollywood,will be doing the cinematography for the upcoming
Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow film. That filmof course is starring Millie Alcock as Supergirl
and is based on the comic of the same title.Now, this news is pretty awesome because the

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comic Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow takes placeacross the cosmos and visits different planets
and it looks really awesome. The art in thecomic is fantastic. So to get someone of Rob
Hardy's caliber to do the cinematography forit makes it seem like the movie is just going
to be breathtaking to watch. Rob Hardy has donecinematography on prior films that include

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Ex Machina, Annihilation, Mission ImpossibleFallout, Men, and Civil War among other films.
Yeah, a lot of those movies have a very groundedapproach to the cinematography, I would say,
with probably Annihilation being the exception.I'm assuming he's going to pull largely from
that experience to direct the photography forSupergirl Woman of Tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, I

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think Annihilation is a good precedent for whathe could do with the film in terms of her visiting
these alien worlds. DC has had some amazingcinematography in their past films. You can
take a look at... The Batman, the Joker films,Marvel films, their best one was probably what,
The Eternals? For the MCU, yeah, I would saythe best cinematography was The Eternals or

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maybe Guardians. Prior to that, I think theSam Raimi, Spider-Man films had great cinematography.
Cinematographers aren't as renowned as directors,but they contribute a lot to the look of the
film. And I gotta say, Rob Hardy joining Supergirlmakes me really excited for how that film is
going to look. I've yet to hear like reallyanything bad about that film. It looks like
it's shaping up to be really something special.But speaking of cinematographers, that brings

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us to our question of the week.
What live action Marvel or DC film do you thinkhad the best cinematography and what was your
favorite shot? Yeah, give us the film, giveus the cinematographer, and give us your favorite
cinematic scene from that movie. Record youranswer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the

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red microphone button in the bottom right handcorner of the screen, which will prompt you
to leave us a voicemail. Your message can beup to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to
leave your name in case we include you on thepodcast. We'll pick our favorite answer. and
award that person a dynamic duel no prize thatwe'll post to Instagram. Be sure to answer
before December 14th.

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Well that does it for all the news for thisepisode, but now let's go ahead and move on
to the main event where we review the animatedadaptation Watchmen Chapter 2.

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Watchmen Chapter 2 is the second half of a two-partanimated adaptation of the comic medium's seminal
masterpiece created by writer Alan Moore andartist Dave Gibbons. It concludes the mystery
of a killer targeting retired crime-fightingvigilantes in New York City amidst escalating
global tensions and the threat of nuclear armageddonat the height of the Cold War. It's a satirical

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examination of superhero comics that revolutionizedthe comic medium in the 1980s. And because
it was so narratively complex and perfectlysuited to the comic medium, it was long considered
unadaptable to screen. Of course, you know,until the 2009 live action film by Zack Snyder,

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but even that was met with mixed reactions.15 years after that, Warner Brothers has attempted
another on-screen adaptation, this time splitinto two parts, chapters one and two. with
our podcast being the only tomato meter approvedpublication that gave chapter one a rotten
rating, saying in our review that despite thefilmmakers best intentions, the film is faithful

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to a fault, and in essence, it's an abridgedand superfluous version of the celebrated graphic
novel. Well, it just means that we have integrity,okay? We're willing to call out something as
bad if we perceive it to be bad. And I definitelydon't think it was deserving of a 100% Rotten
Tomato rating, because after watching Chapter1, I concluded that the story of Watchmen is

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too good and too important to justify an abridgedversion. But if you're going to condense the
story into something easier to consume on screen,then we already have a better, more cinematic
abridged version in the live-action film. Andthis animated adaptation, in its ambition to
be even more faithful to the graphic novel,makes itself redundant and less special. We

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speculated in our review of Chapter 1 that becauseof the ramped up tension in the latter half
of the story, Chapter 2 is probably going tobe better, and it is, but just barely. So I'm
not going to recommend watching this movie.I am going to recommend everyone read the graphic
novel though, and if you're going to, stop listeningto the spoiler review now because it will also

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spoil the book. And if you're not going to readthe book, then I would recommend pairing the
2009 Zack Snyder film with the 2019 HBO Watchmenseries. With the understanding that the end
explosion was caused by different sources, though.I don't care. I just don't recommend this two
part animated adaptation. I will agree, though,that this chapter two film was better than

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chapter one. Right. Yeah. Now, I went on atlength as to why Watchmen is such a celebrated
story in our review of Chapter one. So I won'trepeat any of that here. What I will say is
that I regret that Warner Brothers' animationdidn't release both chapters simultaneously,
because releasing the story in two parts, Ifeel, didn't allow the story's tension to build

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and conclude in one unified experience. So thenarrative's most powerful moments, especially
the final moral quandaries, lose some of theirimpact because of the rushed nature of this
second half. There's a ton more story here fromthe books that was cut or rushed through than
there was in Chapter 1, and because of that,the lead villain of the story doesn't even

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debut in this film until the final act. BothChapters 1 and 2 were just shy of 90 minutes
each, putting them combined at under 3 hours,which is shorter than the director's cut of
Zack Snyder's Watchmen, and that's still myfavorite adaptation. I'm afraid this means
that there was no reason to split the storyin two parts other than corporate greed on

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behalf of Warner Brothers. Like no reason. Ifthey wanted to do the graphic novel justice,
which I'm now convinced as I mentioned in ourlast review, that the only way to have done
that was a 12 episode animated series. For sure,or live action series. I still hope to see
that one day. maybe as, you know, another HBOseries where every issue of the Watchmen graphic

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novel is an episode of the series. If they coulddo a series that was like in the same vein
aesthetically as something like Blade Runner,I think that would be absolute perfection.
Yeah, Blade Runner is a little sci-fi, but ifyou could like throw in some like taxi driver
type vibe, like make the television series reallyfeel like the time period that it's set in,

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like it was made during that time. I think thatwould be mind-blowing. Absolutely. 100% agree.
Now, my gripes aside, I do have to say thatI did actually think this film was enjoyable.
There's a lot more action in the second halfthan there was in the first in more ways than
one, if you know what I mean. I don't know whatyou mean. What do you mean, Jonathan? What
do you mean by that? You know, action. Whatdoes that mean? OK, virgin sex. That's what

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I mean. From the prison fights with Rorschach.to the escapades of Night Owl and Silk Spectre,
to the actually good climax we got this timeat the end of the film, the movie moves at
a pretty brisk pace, even with the tales ofthe Black Freighter interludes. That said,
for all the action it had, I felt Chapter 2absolutely dropped the ball on the underlying

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tension of nuclear war that the book expertlymanaged to balance along with the character
drama. Like- There was only one brief scenewith Richard Nixon in this film. And to me,
the adaptation struggled to capture the moralgravity that defined the source material, that
Cold War-era fear of nuclear Armageddon thatloomed over every scene in the comic, creating

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this almost suffocating tension and urgencyto the characters' struggles, as well as their
moral compromises. The heart of Watchmen, formany readers, I think, has always been its
commentary. on humanity's capacity for self-destructionand the horrifying lengths one might go to
in order to prevent it. That's the moral ofthe story, right? We are creatures who stand

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on the brink of annihilation and any solutionto that problem can be as monstrous as the
threat itself. Watchmen Chapter 2 does presentOzymandias' terrible solution in full detail,
Giant Squid and all, which is something previousadaptations have shied away from. but without
the nuclear dread consistently simmering throughoutthe narrative, the final twist feels more like

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a shock tactic than this culmination of theexistential anxieties from that era. I wonder
if the animation has anything to do with that.It's kind of just really hard to connect with
anything that you're seeing on the screen dueto the rather stiff nature of it all. Yeah,
as we mentioned in our review of Chapter 1,the animation for this film particularly now

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that I've seen Suicide Squad Isekai, which wereviewed after Chapter 1. Suicide Squad Isekai
has kind of ruined, in a way, all DC animationfor me because it is, I would say, DC's best
animated project that it's ever done and waybetter in comparison to the animation that
was done for Watchmen, unfortunately. Tragicallyeven. Like imagine what this squid exploding

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scene would have been like in anime style. Thatwould have been incredible. Like Akira? Yeah,
like I was just gonna say Akira. Yeah, that'swhat it kind of reminded me of. The nuclear
Armageddon felt secondary until the very endof the film, which devotes most of its running
time to the Mask Killer mystery and only fullyacknowledges the specter of nuclear war after

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Ozymandias' plan has been fully revealed andexecuted. And I think that was a huge mistake.
especially during these times when we stilllive under the threat of nuclear war. You know,
the doomsday clock that is used as a motif throughoutthe comics series is a real thing. And currently
we're at, I think, 90 seconds to midnight asof this recording, which is wild. I mean, we

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got more than a whole minute left before humanity'sdestruction. Oh, okay. I'm feeling pretty good.
Let me know when it's like 15 seconds, thenI'll start shitting my pants. One thing I noticed
from Chapter 2 is that it seemed like they actuallydiverted more from the source material than
Chapter 1 did. Like I saw a few new scenes,a lot more original dialogue, and I remember

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thinking to myself like, what the fuck did theyjust say? Like, what is this? Like, when did
Hollis Mason go back and visit Dan Dreiberg?Since when did we spend so much time on Archie,
you know? It wasn't a bad adaptation and wereally came down on Chapter 1 for... being
a little bit too faithful and maybe they hurtus. Maybe that's why they added all this extra
stuff. I don't know. I doubt it. They've beenworking on this film for three years. So I

(24:41):
don't think it was us. Their one negative RottenTomatoes review. I doubt it. But no, I definitely
noticed those extra scenes. They were definitelydrawing to me as well. And I don't mind them
condensing the story. It was just the writingthat I felt was off. Like Shazinsky, the writer
of this film. is a really good comic book writer,but he's no Alan Moore. And when you hear lines

(25:07):
like, your butt is in safe hands, it betterbe or else I'm gonna kick it. I'm just like,
what the fuck is this? I thought the exact samething when I heard that line. I was like, this
chapter two adaptation has way too much buttstuff. Like I remember when Dan and Lori were
about to get it on the couch the first time,there was a whole shot of her slapping his

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ass. just out of the blue. Like they cut tothat specifically. And I was like, that was
never in the comic book. What the fuck was that?And on Archie. I didn't need to see that. There's
a lot of butt stuff going on in chapter twoof Watchmen. A lot of ass kicking and ass slapping.
But yeah, that line was just groan worthy. It'sone of several changes where I'm like, that

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was unnecessary. Like honestly, looking backon these two films, I kind of wish they would
have cut the tales from the Black Friday. becauseit would have given them more room to include
some more of the better stuff from the books.Yeah, I think the parallels that they tried
to draw between the story of the Black Fraterand the story of Watchmen did not work as well

(26:12):
within this adaptation. No, I disagree. I actuallythink some of the parallels they made were
more successful than what they did in the comic.But that doesn't mean it was necessary. What
is the moral of the Black Frater? What's thelesson there and how does it pertain to the
story of Watchmen? Well, it has like this metacontext with a lot of things that are going
on within the story intentionally. But overall,I would say that it tells the story of this

(26:36):
man who has gone through these horrible tragediesand kind of lost his soul. In the same way,
you could make connections between that andRorschach or Ozymandias in coming to the conclusion
that he felt he had to come up with in orderto save mankind. He became a monster in much
the same way that the sailor from Tales of theBlack Frader did. Except the sailor learned

(27:00):
his lesson whereas Ozymandias did not. Maybe,maybe, we don't know. I'm just gonna say now,
hot take, I don't think Tales from the BlackFrader is necessary at all even in the comic
book. The parallels that it tries to draw arejust too thin to hold much weight in the larger
context. Fight me. Okay, I will fight you withmy fists. Not with any kind of argument against

(27:23):
that. Yeah, yeah, those are frightening words,my friend. Your opinion is trash. Here's a
punch to the face. Exactly. You get it. I likeTales of the Black Freighter, but I have not
liked it in any other adaptation. Like, I didn'teven really enjoy it in the ultimate cut of
the Watchmen film. The live action one by ZackSnyder. They made an animated version of the

(27:46):
Tales from the Black Freighter and cut it intothe movie. But honestly, as I said earlier,
the director's cut without that is still myfavorite adaptation of Watchmen. I rest my
case. If they ever did a TV show though, likea 12 part series, I could see them leaving
it in. Yeah, at that point, I think you'd almostneed to just to fill the runtime. Yeah. Let's
go ahead and move on to the character breakdown,though I will say I don't have anything to

(28:10):
add regarding the voice performances that Ihave already said in our review of Chapter
1. So I'm going to skip over all of that. Butlet's start with Rorschach, aka Walter Kovacs.
After being captured by police and accused ofthe murder of Malik, Rorschach is forced into
a prison where he's surrounded by hundreds ofcriminals he helped put behind bars. Despite

(28:32):
this, Rorschach shows no fear, even going sofar as to tell the prisoners that he's not
locked up with them, they're locked up withhim, and proving as much in how he's able to
disable their attacks. We see how his hardenedview of the world was shaped by his upbringing,
being the offspring of a prostitute. and teasedfor it growing up. And choosing the life of

(28:54):
a crime fighter showed him the absolute worstin humanity, shaping his viewpoint that life
is random and meaningless with no pattern savefor what we impose on it. And Rorschach imposes
his own strict black and white morality, deontologicaland uncompromising, which is why he's killed

(29:14):
by Dr. Manhattan in the end. Because his inabilityto compromise to allow a little evil for a
greater good would lead to greater harm. I dowish that they would have taken a little bit
more time with his personal backstory that isrevealed during his sessions with the psychiatrist.
Super rushed. It does seem like he rushed throughit. Oh yeah. And to me that was always one

(29:35):
of the more interesting parts of the Watchman'sstory, how this man kind of just fell into
the void. Yeah, absolutely. I think if Watchmenhad a protagonist, it probably would be Rorschach,
but I definitely feel like he didn't get asmuch screen time as like Dan and Laurie in
this adaptation. I feel like they were treatedas the protagonists, which isn't bad. You know,

(29:55):
I don't mind Night Owl. He's probably one ofmy favorite characters. Speaking of him, you
know, after returning to vigilantism alongsideLaurie, Dan Dreiberg finds a renewed sense
of purpose he lacked since giving up his NightOwl persona. rediscovering the thrill and meaning
in what he does, whether it's rescuing peoplefrom a burning building or orchestrating Rorschach's

(30:16):
jailbreak. As he uncovers Adrian Veidt's plan,Dan is forced to confront his own ideals. He
sees the bigger picture and understands thatsometimes terrible sacrifices need to be accepted
for the greater good. Unlike Rorschach, Dancan compromise, and it allows him to let go
and embrace a new life with Laurie. As theyreinvent themselves, and find a peace in the

(30:39):
world that Adrian has created. I liked Dan morein Chapter 2 than I did in Chapter 1. Chapter
1, I found it difficult to avoid comparing NightOwl's on-screen performance to Patrick Wilson's
from the 2009 live-action film, but with Chapter2 maybe a little bit less so because Chapter
2 is really where the character comes into hisown. The moment when he was explaining to Laurie

(31:02):
how he just felt impotent because of all thepressure surrounding the events worldwide and
locally, I really connected with. It felt believableto me in a way that felt a little bit more
palpable than even the comic book. Maybe, Idon't know. In this movie, I think he came
across as much more confident earlier on inthe story than he was in the comic. You know,

(31:23):
when the second half of the story starts, he'sstill very meek. It wasn't until he really
went out crime fighting for the first time thathe kind of began to get his edge again. But
I feel like he was flirting with Laurie evenbefore he put on the costume in this adaptation.
For sure. Yeah, he got his groove back a littlebit earlier than in the books. Yeah. One of
my favorite things about the character of NightOwl in the comic was his gadgets. He's a gadgeteer

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inspired by the character of Blue Beetle. Andthere were a lot of them that were missing
from this adaptation, unfortunately. I thinkhe had some cool ones. He had those crescent
darts. I call them that because that's whatMoon Knight calls them. But they were like
in the shape of crescent moons. But they werelike taser disks, right? They had like an electrical
current running between the tips. But did hehave a hot cocoa dispenser in Archie? Like

(32:10):
he did in the comics? No, but he had jazz music.Yeah. Let's move on to Laurie Yuspechik, aka
Silk Spectre II. You know, after walking awayfrom Dr. Manhattan's, Laurie begins carving
out an identity. on her own terms. Joining Dan,she finds someone she can truly relate to,
free from the weight of her mother's expectationsor the stifling life at Dr. Manhattan's side.

(32:33):
Fighting crime with Dan renews the sense ofpurpose within her, letting her step out of
the shadow of her mother and enter her own spotlight.During her time on Mars, Laurie comes to the
revelation that the comedian, the man who triedto rape her mother, is her father. and it affects
everything she thought she knew about not onlyher upbringing, but also love and ultimately

(32:56):
forgiveness. When Adrian's plan is revealed,it helps her adapt and accept the same compromises
that would allow her to reconcile with her motherand grow further into her being her own hero.
Laurie's Ark is always a good one, especiallyin Chapter 2, but I will say that I think that
this film handled the revelation on Mars. moreclumsily than I would have liked. There's just

(33:21):
some weird dialogue surrounding it when likeDr. Manhattan's like, look at this chaotic
terrain. And she was like, we have chaotic terrain,look at the chaoticness of my family. I'm like,
that was kind of a stretch. I think that wasfrom the comic. Well, that's just bad writing.
I don't think it's a terrible line. The wholeexchange was done so much better in the comic

(33:43):
because there was just a lot more to the conversation.So it didn't feel forced and it didn't feel
rushed. It felt very natural. I actually reallyliked that issue from the comic. I thought
the live action version handled it believablyand just better all around. The live action
version was better and the comic is even betterthan that. The way the comic plays with time

(34:04):
is done in a way that I feel like you can'treally translate as well to film just because
of the nature of the different panels and theway you shift from scene to scene in a comic.
In the comic book, it doesn't necessarily feellike flashbacks. No, it feels literally like
the events are taking place concurrently inthe same way that Dr. Manhattan perceives time.

(34:26):
Right. It's not as forced in a comic book asit is on screen. Exactly. Because like you
have to treat a flashback as like a memory.So you kind of see Laurie kind of almost have
to zone out kind of to think about this thingthat happened to her previously in her life.
With the comic book, you don't have to do that.I almost feel like if they ever want to do
this scene justice, like if they ever did a12 episode miniseries on television, they would

(34:51):
need two frames on screen at the same time,kind of playing concurrently with each other.
That would be really hard to do, though. Splitscreen stuff. It could be done. Is pretty clumsy.
Just look at the Captain America trailer. Theydid it fine there. Yeah. OK. Yeah, sure. I'd
at least like to see it attempted before I judgeit. Yeah. Let's go ahead and move on to Dr.

(35:13):
Manhattan, aka Jonathan Osterman. After retreatingto Mars, Dr. Manhattan finds himself increasingly
removed from the human condition he once knew.Observing Earth from a distance, he contemplates
time, probability, and the very structure ofexistence, growing more indifferent by the
moment. But when Lori appears, bringing withher the messy complexities of love, trauma,

(35:36):
and hope, he's forced to reconsider humanity'sworth. The simple, unlikely miracle of Laurie's
own life rekindles a faint spark of empathyhe thought was gone. After returning to Earth
and witnessing Adrian's atrocity, Dr. Manhattanagrees to keep the peace through silence, yet
in doing so he chooses to leave Earth behind,forging a new path where he can create life

(36:01):
and shape his own meaning in the cosmos.
the existence of life, a highly overrated phenomenon,and then almost immediately after that calls
all life a miracle. Well, he just came to thatrealization. His mind was changed. A being

(36:22):
even as omnipotent as him can still be reasonedwith. To me, he just seems like a man who can't
stand by his convictions. That's what I say.Well, lucky enough, he didn't. I always thought
that it was a convenient bit of writing. onbehalf of Alan Moore and the original Watchmen
story in that, you know, if Laurie is such amiracle, he's like, oh yeah, all life is a

(36:44):
miracle. By its very nature, then you'd haveto redefine the term miracle, I think. Well,
she helped him realize that the rarity of lifeitself in the cosmos is a miracle and that
by its very nature, each human life is its ownmiracle, which it is because, you know, all
of us were at one point, you know, different,competing. sperm and ova fighting for a chance

(37:07):
to become what we are now. I just feel likethat's a little bit ridiculous because sure,
the odds of the sperm connecting with that specificegg from your mom statistically is highly unlikely,
but again it happens all the fucking time. Soon earth, again, I think you have to redefine
your definition of miracle because it's notthat special. Cynical asshole says what?

(37:35):
Appreciate your own life. What does that haveto do with anything that we were talking about?
I'm saying you're a miracle, bro. I'm sayingyou have to perceive life as a miracle in order
to appreciate it. I'm just saying you have toredefine miracle if it happens repeatedly over
and over and even sometimes by accident. Whoa,gotta put a rubber on it, man. Gotta put a
rubber on it. Well, how would you redefine itthen? I would define it as highly probable,

(38:00):
even though the fact that the comedian and SallyJupiter didn't get along at first, you know,
later on they did. And they boned each otherand they had a baby. As these things happen.
So I'm not like freaking claiming it's the samething as air turning into gold, like Dr. Manhattan
is. And yet the rest of the universe may saydifferently. They'd be like, holy shit, there's

(38:23):
a planet with life on it. What? Says the planetthat also has life on it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
All right. I may be coming across as overlycynical and I'm not really a cynic, but I'm
not nearly as wishy washy as Dr. Manhattan either.I don't think you appreciate being alive enough,

(38:43):
Joseph. Really? Yes. I guess what I'm sayingis you need like an existential breakdown.
Okay. I'm pretty busy at work, so it might happen.We're going to get to Ozymandias aka Adrian
Veit. Adrian doesn't have too much screen time.In Chapter 2, he spends most of that revealing
the full extent of his grand, terrifying vision.He was an admirer of Alexander the Great. And

(39:08):
Adrian's master plan is his way of slicing throughthe Gordian knot that was the Cold War tensions,
a problem too tangled and complex for any rationalnegotiation. Rather than seeking a delicate
solution, he opted to manufacture a common enemyto rally humanity. By sacrificing millions
of innocent lives, he took the utilitarian approachthat the ends justify the means. Yet after

(39:33):
the dust settles and the surviving heroes reluctantlyagree to silence, he looks to them for validation,
an assurance that he truly did the right thing.His triumph feels hollow, and despite all his
brilliance, he remains uncertain whether hesucceeded in preserving life's value. or simply

(39:53):
proved that humanity can be manipulated intosalvation for however long that lasts. Here's
another issue I have with the story of Watchmen.Okay! And Ozymandias' plan. And another reason
why I like the 2009 live-action adaptation betterbecause in that film, they showed that Ozymandias
not only attacked New York, but a lot of majorcities across the globe. True. Which I think

(40:18):
was important to humanity coming together. againsta common enemy. Let me draw a metaphor for
you, okay? Say you're about to get in a fistfight with your sworn enemy, okay? And right
before you two are about to throw punches, yourenemy gets hit by a bike or something like
that, okay? Are you two all of a sudden gonnajoin forces together against the bicyclist

(40:41):
or are you gonna be like, thank god it was thatguy and not me, that guy hit by the bike? I'm
not necessarily convinced that New York specificallygetting attacked, and only New York getting
attacked, would draw the entire globe togetherin world peace, considering that, you know,
America was about to be part of the end of theworld, you know? I'm not sure that New York

(41:04):
would draw that much sympathy from America'senemies at that time. Well, if I thought that
the bicyclist was also going to come after me,right after he attacked you, then yeah, I'd
probably join forces with you to fend off thebicyclist. I don't know if you caught that
I consider you my mortal enemy. I was like,wait, what? Why is it me that got hit by the

(41:24):
bike? I guess you're right in that regard. Butyeah, I can totally see why the live action
adaptation had multiple attacks across the globe.Yeah, I would agree with you, actually. That
is one of the things that the film version didbetter than the book version. It was that and
also Rorschach going to Dr. Manhattan to seeif he. could see into the future to find out

(41:48):
who the masked killer was. Those are two kindof gaps that are in the book that the movie
covered well, I thought. Let's move on to thestory highlights.
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(42:52):
On a remote island, horror comic writer MaxShea and surrealist painter Hira Manish reflect
on how they, along with a group of scientists,contributed to creating a nightmarish creature
for unclear reasons and for an unnamed benefactor,currently being shipped off the island. Over
the course of the film, interwoven within thenarrative, one of Max Shea's comics,

(43:19):
after his ship was destroyed by the dreadedPhantom Pirate ship known as the Black Freighter.
Forced to build a raft from corpses of his shipmates,the traumatized sailor grows mad as he battles
sharks and the sea itself to get home to Davidstownand protect his family from the oncoming Black
Freighter pirates, only to mistake his wifefor a pirate while attempting to rescue her.

(43:42):
The sailor is then chased by a mob to the sea,where the Black Freighter waits for him. Now
this of course isn't all in the first scene,it's interspersed throughout the film, but
I wanted to get the Black Friday narrative outof the way. Yeah, I think I said my piece on
it. Again, fight me. With my fists! Now capturedand imprisoned, Walter Kovacs, aka the vigilante

(44:04):
Rorschach, overcomes a prison attack by inmateshe helped put there. During a psychological
evaluation, Rorschach reveals his traumaticchildhood, and how he was driven to murderous
vigilantism, after confronting a man who feda young girl he kidnapped to his dogs. Meanwhile,
Dan Dreiberg rescues Laurie Yuspechik from afire in his basement that Laurie accidentally

(44:27):
caused while inspecting his high-tech hovercraft,Archie. While talking about their inspirations
for becoming costumed vigilantes, Dan admitsthe comedian's death, Rorschach's imprisonment,
Dr. Manhattan's exile to Mars, and the attemptedassassination of Adrian Veidt are too coincidental
to be unrelated. While watching television,Dan and Laurie eventually kiss, and though

(44:49):
they attempt to make love, Dan finds himselfimpotent from the nightmare-inducing stress
of impending nuclear war. One of the thingsthey did in this movie that was taken straight
from the comic that I thought they did betterthan the live-action version was Rorschach
tying the guy who killed the young girl to hisboiler and giving him a saw to cut off his

(45:10):
own hand as he set fire to his house. The moviewas way more violent. But I actually think
it's a little bit more jigsaw-esque, like fromthe movie Saw, to make him try to cut off his
own hand to save himself, knowing that he ultimatelywould not be able to do that. I think the shock
of the violent moment within the live actionmovie was more effective in portraying that

(45:32):
transition from Walter Kovacs into Rorschach,because like he couldn't even speak. All he
did was jam the meat cleaver in the guy's headsaying, men get arrested, dogs get put down.
You know, I thought that was in... extremelygraphic but also effective look at his transitioning
psyche. Here it was just kind of like, eh, youknow, saw your way out if you can. If you can't

(45:55):
then, you know, guess you're gonna die. Wellthe whole transition moment was supposed to
be as he's watching the building burn down.It was sort of this cathartic moment in which
he like arose from the ashes as Rorschach. Sure,I'll still say less effective. Maybe. While
a mobster named Big Figure attempts to intimidateRorschach in his jail cell as a prison riot

(46:16):
bruise, Dan and Lori decide to put their oldcrime fighting costumes on and take Archie
out for a spin, during which time they rescuetenants of an apartment fire. Feeling empowered,
Dan and Lori make love aboard Archie beforedeciding they should break Rorschach out of
prison. While planning the breakout in Dan'sbasement, Dan is visited by his mentor, Hollis

(46:36):
Mason, the original Night Owl, who warns Danthat if he could figure out which crimefighters
rescued the apartment fire tenants, which wasan illegal crimefighting act, the police could
too. After sharing his theory with Hollis regardingthe corporate connections between all of the
recent murders, Dan leaves with Laurie and Archiejust before the police raid his house. While

(46:58):
Dan and Laurie fend off police and rioters,Rorschach defends himself against a big figure,
killing his men and him before escaping withhis allies. Now the scene with Hollis Mason
visiting Dan is not in the comics. Dan is actuallyvisited by a detective in that scene. But I
actually liked this more because it gave onemore scene between Hollis and Dan before Hollis

(47:22):
dies. Yeah, that was nice. It kind of gave viewersthat are familiar with the story a little bit
of closure in regards to that relationship,you know? Right. In the movie, it did seem
like it was just a means for a big expositiondump. Yes. Yeah. What the story actually was.
One thing I didn't like here was how Dan doesgive the exposition dump in regards to all

(47:44):
of this research that he seemingly did off screenabout all the different corporations that are
tied to the different deaths throughout thefilm. Yeah, he was much more informed here
than he ever was in the comics. And we neverreally got to see all that information come
together. Regarding the rescue scene of thetenants from the building fire, that was another

(48:04):
bit of bad dialogue, I thought, when one ofthe ladies was like, mother of the deus. And
then Silk Spectre was like, different Spectreand I'm nobody's mother. Yeah, that was a Trisinski
original there, I believe. And regarding thesex scene that happened right after, if nothing
else, it just proved how unnecessarily pornographicZack Snyder made that scene in his film. Okay,

(48:28):
virgin. Damn it! Sorry it makes you so uncomfortable.It's just gratuitous. I don't know. I don't
disagree. I don't disagree. I thought this wasdone very tastefully actually in this animated
version. Yeah. In retaliation for Rorschach'sescape, a violent gang of not-tops mistake
Hollis for Dan and beat him to death. Duringtheir escape from police, Dr. Manhattan appears

(48:52):
aboard Archie and takes Laurie with him backto Mars, where Laurie reminisces through her
life in an attempt to view it from Dr. Manhattan'sextradimensional perception of time, accidentally
revealing in the process that she's sleepingwith Dan. Upset by the revelation, Dr. Manhattan
refuses to help save Earth from impending nuclearwar until Laurie comes to the revelation that

(49:15):
the Comedian was her father. Astonished by thenear-miraculous unlikelihood of the union between
Laurie's parents and of Laurie's existence ingeneral, Dr. Manhattan decides to take her
back to Earth and help. Meanwhile, Dan and Rorschachvisit Adrian's office, hoping he can help them
figure out the connection between the corporationsinvolved with the recent deaths, only to discover

(49:38):
that Adrian is away at his Antarctic base, Carnac,and that he owns all of the corporations involved.
On their way to Antarctica, Rorschach mailshis journal to the conspiratorial magazine,
The New Frontiersman. I do like the way thismovie handled Dryberg's revelation that Ozymandias
was behind everything more than the book's methodof having Ozymandias have a really obvious

(50:03):
password on his computer. Like he's the world'ssmartest man and yet his password was Ramesses
II, right? Wait, that's an obvious password?Yes. Oh shit, I need to change mine. Here there
was like no hacking of anything, you know, itwas just good old-fashioned detective work
looking through financial records. Maybe, Iguess you could also say that those records

(50:25):
should have probably been in a vault or a safeof some sort. And not just like in a drawer
that could be easily opened. I guess that'sfair. When Adrian arrives at Carnac, his assistants
reveal that the shipment from the island hasarrived and that everything for his plan is
in order. Adrian thanks them with wine thatpoisons and kills them, while listening to

(50:45):
an interview that he had done with a reporterthat details his life's inspiration for unifying
the world. As Dan and Rorschach approach Antarctica,we see the ship blow up that was carrying Max
Shea, Hera Manish, and everyone else who builtthe unseen creature, now at Karnak, who Adrian
teleports away. Dan and Rorschach attempt toambush Adrian, but he counters and disables

(51:08):
them, before revealing that he was the maskkiller, having killed the comedian for learning
of his plan, along with others to get rid ofDr. Manhattan to prevent him from stopping
his plan. which was to force the world governmentsinto an era of cooperation and peace, while
seemingly under the threat of an alien attack,which Adrian achieved prior to Dan and Rorschach's

(51:30):
arrival by teleporting a genetically modifiedgiant squid monster to New York City and causing
it to blow up half its population. Do you everfeel like... the squid monster was a little
bit far-fetched in the realm of science fictionfor the very grounded world that the Watchmen
story is set in, or relatively grounded world.I think without Bubastis it was. But with Bubastis

(51:56):
we understand that Ozymandias has been researchinggenetic modification for years. Bubastis of
course is Adrian's pet Lynx, genetically modifiedLynx. You know, we know Adrian put a lot of
resources into a lot of different sci-fi-esquetechnologies to try to pull off this massive
hoax, including genetic engineering, includingteleportation. Do you think that there is a

(52:19):
more plausible way to fake an alien attack?When we know that in history, sometimes faking
an alien attack can be as simple as Orson Wellsreading a radio broadcast. Of course, I'm describing,
you know, War of the Worlds. Do you think thatthere was probably a better way for Alan Moore
to more convincingly have Adrian depict an alienattack than through all this sci-fi technology

(52:43):
stuff? Well, how else would you kill two millionpeople? Well, probably a bomb? I think a more
plausible approach would be like the IndependenceDay route where Adrian just develops this UFO
hovercraft that drops a big bomb or somethinglike that. I think that's... still believable.
Developing an aircraft that's unidentifiableby the world's military is more simple than

(53:06):
genetically engineering this whole entire newcreature. Yeah, probably. But I also think
that, who knows? I think that if something likea giant squid monster suddenly appeared on
the planet, I'd have an easier time believingit came from outer space. Then if you just
had a craft drop some kind of explosive andthen like vanish. then, you know, that's nothing.

(53:32):
I guess there would be some deniability there.Yeah, if Adrian went the ship route, he'd have
to have like the ship crash and it would haveto be of like such advanced technology that
no one would have ever suspected that he wasthe one who created it. Still seems a little
bit more plausible than a fucking squid beaktentacle beast monster. Hey, man, don't hate

(53:54):
the player, hate the game. Well, I will sayI don't hold Alan Moore nearly as high regard
as you do. How does that mean? It means youput him on a pedestal is what I'm saying. They
have a better writer than Alan Moore. JonathanHickman. No. Wrong. OK.
Dr. Manhattan and Laurie arrive amidst the carnagein New York. Too late to do anything due to

(54:19):
the tachyon radiation from the explosion. Dr.Manhattan traces the teleportation energy signature
to Karnak, where he, Laurie, Dan, and Rorschachhunt down Adrian for what he did. Though Adrian
seemingly kills Dr. Manhattan in an intrinsicfield subtractor, Dr. Manhattan rebuilds himself.
Confronted by the other four, Adrian revealsvia television that his plan was a success

(54:45):
and that world leaders are calling for peaceamidst the tragedy. Each of them accept the
reality that Adrian's plan worked and agreedto secrecy except for Rorschach, whom Dr. Manhattan
kills before informing Adrian that he's leavingfor a less complicated galaxy to create new
life. I can't remember, in the comic book, didhe say that he was leaving for a new galaxy

(55:06):
or was he leaving for a new world? Because inthe Watchmen HBO sequel, we saw that he went
to one of the moons of Jupiter, I believe, Europa,if I'm remembering that correctly. which is
not in another galaxy. And I'm wondering whichadaptation got it incorrect. In the comic,
he said he was leaving the galaxy. Okay, sothe HBO series got it wrong then. Uh, yeah,

(55:28):
yeah it did. What are you trying to say? Thatit's not good now? Why are you so defensive,
Jonathan? I just don't think you like the factthat I keep attacking what you keep referring
to as the seminal work of the comic book medium.Uh, yeah, because it is. And you can't accept
that. you think you're too good for it. No DCwork is ever going to be called seminal. Not

(55:51):
while I'm still alive. That could be arranged.Laurie and Dan, now disguised as Sam and Sandra
Hollis, visit Laurie's mother Sally in a Californiarest home, where Laurie reveals she knows the
comedian was her father. Upon leaving, Laurieand Dan share renewed excitement for costumed
adventuring. In the final scene, employees ofthe new frontiersmen are forced to find a new

(56:15):
story to run in their magazine now that thegovernment no longer allows the press to criticize
their former enemies. A junior staffer is askedto look through a pile of public letters for
a story lead as his hand hovers above Rorschach'sjournal. That's the end of the film. I always
liked that ending a lot, and I really like howthe HBO series ran with that too, where it

(56:36):
kind of became like this conspiracy among themilitia group. in that series. Even with like
the squid babies, you know, that kept the worldon its toes. That was interesting. What did
you think of the Sam and Sandra Hollis disguise?Because the live action movie didn't run with
that. I don't see why not. I thought it wasa good ending for Dan and Laurie and I like
the way they, you know, paid homage to Hollisand everything like that. In the end, the book

(57:01):
is definitely the best way to experience thestory. And while chapter two was better. than
chapter one. You know, it's still this abridgedanimated adaptation that, yeah, may benefit
from increased action in the source material'slatter half, but ultimately it fails to capture
the impact of the book, largely because thebackground threat of nuclear war plays second

(57:24):
fiddle to the character drama. Now I'm givingchapter two three and a half out of five stars
a fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes. That saidI'm actually not recommending this because
it's the second half of a story starting withChapter 1, which I don't recommend. And I don't

(57:44):
recommend this animated adaptation overall.So you're giving it a fresh rating, but you're
saying you don't recommend it? Yes. Becauseof Chapter 1's inferiority? Yes, actually.
Okay, yeah, I think that makes sense. You wouldn'twant people to see Chapter 2 on its own, right?
They coexist with each other, Chapter 1 andChapter 2. Right. I agree chapter 2 is better

(58:06):
than chapter 1, but if chapter 1 was a biggerletdown then I recommend the films as a whole.
I'm really hoping that by me doing this it'snot going to give chapter 2 a 100% tomato meter
score because I don't think it deserves it.I don't think this film really should have
ever been made. But I don't think it also deservesto be shit on. The film exists in this weird

(58:27):
limbo of irrelevancy. Neither good nor bad,just redundant. Here's what I will say. who
made chapters 1 and 2 liked the source materialenough to take a crack at this. I think their
passion shows in how faithful they tried tomake it, but ultimately it was a waste of time.
But you guys have good taste. Most DC thingsare a waste of time. Really. So is your face.

(58:54):
But that does it for this review. AG9K, helpclose us out.
Visit the show's website at dynamicduel.comand follow us on Instagram at dynamicduelpodcast.
You can support the show on Patreon at patreon.comslash dynamicduel and joining a tier that works
for you or by rating and reviewing dynamic duelon apple podcasts, spotify, podchaser or on

(59:19):
our website. Don't forget to listen to the othershows in the dynaMic podcast network, including
Max Destruction, Senjo World and Console Combat.In our next episode, we are going to be reviewing
Craven the Hunter. I have my tickets and I amexpecting to be entirely whelmed. I think is

(59:41):
the best way to put it. Not underwhelmed, notoverwhelmed, just whelmed. Just whelmed, yeah,
yeah. That is it for this episode. We wannagive a big thanks to our executive producers,
Ken Johnson. John Swarovski. Zachary Hepburn,Dustin Balcom, Miggy Mathingian, Brandon Estregard,
Nathaniel Wagener, Levi Yaten, Austin Wieselowski,AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam

(01:00:02):
Spies, Andrew Shunk, Dean Molesky, Devin Davis,Joseph Kirsting, Josh Leiner, and Mike Williams
for helping make this podcast possible. We'lltalk to you guys next week. Up, up and away,
true believers. Who watches the watchman watchingthe watchman? That's what I'd like to know.

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