August 17, 2025 • 14 mins
SANTACO Spokesperson, Rebecca Phala joins Africa Melane to unpack the current state of the taxi industry.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Africa at Africa Millarne. Social media has been a buzz
these last couple of days, seeing taxi operators stopping sometimes
private vehicle drivers from driving with passengers, taking them out
of those vehicles, forcing them to get into many bus taxis.
(00:21):
We also obviously know of the story of an Ehaling
driver that was sadly killed and vehicles torched a light
outside my Ponnum in Soweto this past weekend. That has
resulted in a lot of people reacting to the news.
The South African National Taxi Council noting with concern the
(00:42):
circulation of false information on social media suggesting that the
council has instructed South Africans not to use their private
vehicles and to travel with their families. Joining me on
the line is the national spokesperson for Santako Machigili, Rebecca
Pala Machigulli. Very good morning and while to the.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Show covering Africa and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
All right, so you are categorically denying any claim that
you have instructed your taxi drivers to stop private vehicle
users from traveling with their families or people being able
to use those vehicles.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
That is correct Africa and we must also say that
this is a story that keeps being circulated. I think
you would remember sometime last year we actually also spoke
to you on this platform at a time when Padrola
is belonging to the industry in some association in Buma
langawajaras in South Africans, and we had to come out
(01:42):
to say that particular action has to be secluded to
not being representative of the Council. We found that there
are some amongst us in terms of the work that
we do, who tend to use pulling tactics. But for
people to then come out and it's a directive by
the Council is misleading and completely not true.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
What work, if any, are you doing to identify who
these bullies are who are effectively causing quite a lot
of distress in morning and afternoon commute in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
So two ways, South Africans have been very helpful in
that the views what they have inclusive of social media
to capture some of these people sometimes even call us
if maybe they don't feel safe to take video footage
and things of that sort. But additionally, because these people
are in fact supposed to be doing the role that
(02:44):
we have under the Trocomella Road Safety Campaign, which is
effectively our road safety campaign, where we bring in these
patrollers who ensure that our vehicles don't overload, that they
always drive in vehicles that are road where they and
things of that sort. So what we do is amongst
themselves as well. We've also introduced some who then effectively
(03:09):
monitor these patrollers because we continue to get reports that
they don't necessarily treat South Africans well on the roads
and that some of them sometimes act in contrary to
the mandate that have been given. But we also work
quite closely with law enforcement because they always have visibility
and eyes on the road and look like with every
(03:31):
other civilian, they know that as and when they encountered
such behavior from these patrollers. Sometimes some people who pretend
to be patrollers, they are more than at liberty to
exercise their duty, which is to effect arrests. So we've
been getting a lot of assistance, especially from South Africans
who as and when they encounter these people, they allered us.
(03:54):
And obviously we also allert law enforcement so that internally
as associations would then firstacilitate things like suspensions and many
other methods that exist internally but also because it is
criminal behavior, we allow for law enforcement to do their
work as well.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Let's talk about those measures available then to Santaco against
your members who are behaving in a way that is
not in keeping with your code of conduct nor the
constitution of the Republic of South Africa. I don't know
if you have this number of hands, and it might
be a guestimation, but how many members have you actually
suspended in the last I don't know, six months to
(04:30):
a year as a result of such behavior for example.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So look, it will be very difficult to sort of
tally up the number of suspensions that have happened because remember,
these efforts are being undertaken by individual associations. We've got
over one thousand and two hundred associations across the country.
I know in Buma Langa, for example, since that particular incident,
those members were suspended. But look, Africa, one of the
(04:56):
other challenges that were in country is this one. We
effectively suspend, say, for instance, a driver from one association,
they either get absorbed by another or that they move
into the ehaling space. So one of the things that
we've now been doing is our original councils have been
really told to heighten the systems that exist, to say,
(05:21):
when one person has been looking for an association and
they get suspended, another association needs to use that a
federal method similar to how you would do when you
want to hire a new person into a workplace, to
effectively ensure that we read our fector of that. But
I mean, we're not going to be oblivious and not
acknowledged that we're not the most fully fully well organized
(05:44):
and there are some loopholes that were identifying, but the
leadership is continuing to really encourage for the leadership of
associations to always be in conversation. But you would remember
that there's Santacos associations and then there's also other taxi
bodies that exist, and sometimes that a feral system then
also encounters challenges on that end. So we are doing
(06:05):
that and it's not always the most effective of work
to do. So we're also admitting to that, but we're
not just folding our arms.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
What work, then, are you and your member associations doing
to sensitize the taxi operators that it is illegal one
for them to stop vehicles and ask for permitts. For permits,
it's not a job. It's the job of law enforcement.
And ultimately two, we are South Africans want to be
able to exercise our right to choose which mode of
(06:35):
public transport we want to spend our money on. And
at the moment, certainly in parts of how Teng, there
seems to be a case that if you're not spending
the money on many bus taxi associations and they members,
then you're not spending your money anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeh, look, I forgot these people.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
One.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
As South Africans fully are aware that we live in
a democracy and that people have come the right to
choose ever mode of transport that they can choose. This
is why we categorically continue to say what they are
doing is absolute criminality. It needs to be understood as that.
But be that as it may. We have a number
of platforms internally as an industry that we use to
(07:16):
communicate so on a continued basis as and when things
of this NATA are brought to our attention, we continue
to communicate with them. But also through this Crocomlead Safety
campaign which we do on a daily basis. We've got
champions and all the provinces in the regions. They also
continue to work with a Transport Education Training authority not
(07:37):
to just tell them, but also to bring in the
training because we also understand that some of them appear
to just be in dire need for training. But it
doesn't necessarily mean that they don't necessarily understand because it's
not for the first time that we're having people thing
having many options in terms of public trans but it's
(07:58):
always been the case that there's always been buses and trains.
We now have another mode in the form of behley. Hence,
we want for everyone to understand this to be criminality
and treated as that, and we're not also going to
fold arm. So we also want to encourage South Africans
to still continue to open cases with law enforcement, because
law enforcement, unlike us who would just suspend a person
(08:21):
from work, have much more heightened methods in place, which
can really also set examples so that even those who
might still want to do this can see that in fact,
you can be arrested and you can be put before
the might of the law.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I suppose what listeners are wanting is some strong action
from Santaco and the member associations against those criminal elements
within the taxi industry, because you'll appreciate that actions of
a few are painting the entire industry in bad light,
(08:58):
right because that's what occupying and dominating the news headlines.
That's the reason why people are calling in and voice
noting and all sorts of things. And my listeners are
desperate that it's going to be safe for them to
hail a taxi using the ehaling app, for them to
get into their cars to go drop off their kids
(09:20):
at school without fear of intimidation, of terrorizing, for being
terrorized by taxi operators or god forbid, being killed.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Look, Africa and we fully are in agreement that the
situation is dire, that South Africans are fearful of the
possibility of being harassed. Some have already been harassed. But look,
maybe let's explain this as well, and again not to
be insensitive. FantaCo was formed as a taxi body that
(09:51):
would essentially ensure that the taxi industry, on a policy perspective,
is an industry that moves with the tire, that does
not operate outside of the confines of the Republic's constitution
and the law that is there. The regulatory aspect of
the industry and what our associations effectively have been given
(10:12):
the power to do. Is we determine who becomes a member.
We allow for the determination of supply and demand and
whether there's still a need for people to operate the services.
And what we also are able to do is when
our members are found to have essentially cost a discomfort
for fellow South Africans, we do the methods we've spoken
(10:34):
about you in iye Alia. They can be suspended, their
operation can also be suspended. But remember the very idea
of a person being able to get an operating license,
which effectively allows them to operate a taxi service allies
with government and that's why we've been saying this conversation
(10:54):
needs to be from a collaborative effort for South Africans
to feel that we're taking stronger action in that are safe.
We need to also speak about the role that law
enforcement has to play, because only they have the mandate
of ensuring that the people who cause discomfort in our
society are put away and they are put through the
systems that exist in accordance with the constitution. What we
(11:16):
can do and are doing is to suspend these people
and to ensure that they also can be moved in
terms of the taxi services. But the understanding we also
have is that these people are appearing to show criminal behavior,
and that's why we need for government from that regulatory
perspective to say to us, bring people so that if
(11:38):
it means we revoke their operating licenses, we do that,
and that for law enforcement also come when people open
cases for them to go in a risk the story
of what's happened in Mapuna mol We spoke about this
in twenty twenty three and even last year, but not
once have we got in an understanding of how far
the law enforcement agencies in terms of the investigations that
(12:01):
they've been doing with these cases. So we can suspend them,
we can't remove them from the associations, but the understanding
we have is that these are criminals and we need
for law enforcement also come to the fall to restore
the public sense of safety and for South Africans to
see that we all understand that their lives are in
danger and that we're working towards their safety.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Ma Tikiti, you'll know that the Santa Cue indsent Cape
in a recent engagement with the sector, with government and
all of that acknowledged that there are absolutely criminal elements
within the taxi industry, they are actively participating in the
protection racket that obviously is destabilizing the economy. Here. I
(12:46):
worried that there's a level of tolerance in inverted commerce
of these illegal sort of players because I don't know,
we're waiting for law enforcement to do something, which is
probably the right thing to do. But why are they
still sitting in those associations, Why are still members, why
are they're operating taxes still?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So it's exactly that Africa. The frustration is warranted. It
has to be there. But the reality of the matter
is you suspend them, and I promise you suspend them
today and they move to the next association tomorrow. But look,
I'll also admit to you and the listeners that we've
(13:27):
also got some sectors, some amongst the industry, will also
resort to even bullying of the leadership of the taxi industry,
some of the murders that we've been recording, for instance
in the Western Cape of late the suspension. The suspense
that we are having, which of course has not been
proven to be truthful or otherwise, is that some of
(13:48):
these members are people, for instance, who maybe are a
chairperson and they were told by these bullies who appear
and behave like mafia's that you're going to have to
allow me to operate or alfa life could be in
danger and that person for some reason may be stalled
or does not allow them. The next day you hear
their life has been lost. Which so even the industry
(14:10):
itself is in dire need of protection by law enforcement.
And some say we can do all that we can,
but beneath there's an aspect that we just don't have
the power to undertake. That's why we've also been saying
those taxi based task teams in our police stations, what
happened to them? Are they still doing in work? Do
(14:31):
they need to be heightened in any way? It has
to be a collaborative effort Africa. I promise you it's
not that we don't do enough. We're only doing that
which we can, but their limitations and only law enforcement
in government can pitch the gap.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
All right, we'll leave it there, thank you very much, Matikidi.
Rebecca Palace speaking on behalf of the South Askan National
Taxi Council
Africa at Africa Millarne. Social media has been a buzz
these last couple of days, seeing taxi operators stopping sometimes
private vehicle drivers from driving with passengers, taking them out
of those vehicles, forcing them to get into many bus taxis.
(00:21):
We also obviously know of the story of an Ehaling
driver that was sadly killed and vehicles torched a light
outside my Ponnum in Soweto this past weekend. That has
resulted in a lot of people reacting to the news.
The South African National Taxi Council noting with concern the
(00:42):
circulation of false information on social media suggesting that the
council has instructed South Africans not to use their private
vehicles and to travel with their families. Joining me on
the line is the national spokesperson for Santako Machigili, Rebecca
Pala Machigulli. Very good morning and while to the.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Show covering Africa and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
All right, so you are categorically denying any claim that
you have instructed your taxi drivers to stop private vehicle
users from traveling with their families or people being able
to use those vehicles.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
That is correct Africa and we must also say that
this is a story that keeps being circulated. I think
you would remember sometime last year we actually also spoke
to you on this platform at a time when Padrola
is belonging to the industry in some association in Buma
langawajaras in South Africans, and we had to come out
(01:42):
to say that particular action has to be secluded to
not being representative of the Council. We found that there
are some amongst us in terms of the work that
we do, who tend to use pulling tactics. But for
people to then come out and it's a directive by
the Council is misleading and completely not true.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
What work, if any, are you doing to identify who
these bullies are who are effectively causing quite a lot
of distress in morning and afternoon commute in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
So two ways, South Africans have been very helpful in
that the views what they have inclusive of social media
to capture some of these people sometimes even call us
if maybe they don't feel safe to take video footage
and things of that sort. But additionally, because these people
are in fact supposed to be doing the role that
(02:44):
we have under the Trocomella Road Safety Campaign, which is
effectively our road safety campaign, where we bring in these
patrollers who ensure that our vehicles don't overload, that they
always drive in vehicles that are road where they and
things of that sort. So what we do is amongst
themselves as well. We've also introduced some who then effectively
(03:09):
monitor these patrollers because we continue to get reports that
they don't necessarily treat South Africans well on the roads
and that some of them sometimes act in contrary to
the mandate that have been given. But we also work
quite closely with law enforcement because they always have visibility
and eyes on the road and look like with every
(03:31):
other civilian, they know that as and when they encountered
such behavior from these patrollers. Sometimes some people who pretend
to be patrollers, they are more than at liberty to
exercise their duty, which is to effect arrests. So we've
been getting a lot of assistance, especially from South Africans
who as and when they encounter these people, they allered us.
(03:54):
And obviously we also allert law enforcement so that internally
as associations would then firstacilitate things like suspensions and many
other methods that exist internally but also because it is
criminal behavior, we allow for law enforcement to do their
work as well.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Let's talk about those measures available then to Santaco against
your members who are behaving in a way that is
not in keeping with your code of conduct nor the
constitution of the Republic of South Africa. I don't know
if you have this number of hands, and it might
be a guestimation, but how many members have you actually
suspended in the last I don't know, six months to
(04:30):
a year as a result of such behavior for example.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So look, it will be very difficult to sort of
tally up the number of suspensions that have happened because remember,
these efforts are being undertaken by individual associations. We've got
over one thousand and two hundred associations across the country.
I know in Buma Langa, for example, since that particular incident,
those members were suspended. But look, Africa, one of the
(04:56):
other challenges that were in country is this one. We
effectively suspend, say, for instance, a driver from one association,
they either get absorbed by another or that they move
into the ehaling space. So one of the things that
we've now been doing is our original councils have been
really told to heighten the systems that exist, to say,
(05:21):
when one person has been looking for an association and
they get suspended, another association needs to use that a
federal method similar to how you would do when you
want to hire a new person into a workplace, to
effectively ensure that we read our fector of that. But
I mean, we're not going to be oblivious and not
acknowledged that we're not the most fully fully well organized
(05:44):
and there are some loopholes that were identifying, but the
leadership is continuing to really encourage for the leadership of
associations to always be in conversation. But you would remember
that there's Santacos associations and then there's also other taxi
bodies that exist, and sometimes that a feral system then
also encounters challenges on that end. So we are doing
(06:05):
that and it's not always the most effective of work
to do. So we're also admitting to that, but we're
not just folding our arms.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
What work, then, are you and your member associations doing
to sensitize the taxi operators that it is illegal one
for them to stop vehicles and ask for permitts. For permits,
it's not a job. It's the job of law enforcement.
And ultimately two, we are South Africans want to be
able to exercise our right to choose which mode of
(06:35):
public transport we want to spend our money on. And
at the moment, certainly in parts of how Teng, there
seems to be a case that if you're not spending
the money on many bus taxi associations and they members,
then you're not spending your money anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeh, look, I forgot these people.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
One.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
As South Africans fully are aware that we live in
a democracy and that people have come the right to
choose ever mode of transport that they can choose. This
is why we categorically continue to say what they are
doing is absolute criminality. It needs to be understood as that.
But be that as it may. We have a number
of platforms internally as an industry that we use to
(07:16):
communicate so on a continued basis as and when things
of this NATA are brought to our attention, we continue
to communicate with them. But also through this Crocomlead Safety
campaign which we do on a daily basis. We've got
champions and all the provinces in the regions. They also
continue to work with a Transport Education Training authority not
(07:37):
to just tell them, but also to bring in the
training because we also understand that some of them appear
to just be in dire need for training. But it
doesn't necessarily mean that they don't necessarily understand because it's
not for the first time that we're having people thing
having many options in terms of public trans but it's
(07:58):
always been the case that there's always been buses and trains.
We now have another mode in the form of behley. Hence,
we want for everyone to understand this to be criminality
and treated as that, and we're not also going to
fold arm. So we also want to encourage South Africans
to still continue to open cases with law enforcement, because
law enforcement, unlike us who would just suspend a person
(08:21):
from work, have much more heightened methods in place, which
can really also set examples so that even those who
might still want to do this can see that in fact,
you can be arrested and you can be put before
the might of the law.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I suppose what listeners are wanting is some strong action
from Santaco and the member associations against those criminal elements
within the taxi industry, because you'll appreciate that actions of
a few are painting the entire industry in bad light,
(08:58):
right because that's what occupying and dominating the news headlines.
That's the reason why people are calling in and voice
noting and all sorts of things. And my listeners are
desperate that it's going to be safe for them to
hail a taxi using the ehaling app, for them to
get into their cars to go drop off their kids
(09:20):
at school without fear of intimidation, of terrorizing, for being
terrorized by taxi operators or god forbid, being killed.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Look, Africa and we fully are in agreement that the
situation is dire, that South Africans are fearful of the
possibility of being harassed. Some have already been harassed. But look,
maybe let's explain this as well, and again not to
be insensitive. FantaCo was formed as a taxi body that
(09:51):
would essentially ensure that the taxi industry, on a policy perspective,
is an industry that moves with the tire, that does
not operate outside of the confines of the Republic's constitution
and the law that is there. The regulatory aspect of
the industry and what our associations effectively have been given
(10:12):
the power to do. Is we determine who becomes a member.
We allow for the determination of supply and demand and
whether there's still a need for people to operate the services.
And what we also are able to do is when
our members are found to have essentially cost a discomfort
for fellow South Africans, we do the methods we've spoken
(10:34):
about you in iye Alia. They can be suspended, their
operation can also be suspended. But remember the very idea
of a person being able to get an operating license,
which effectively allows them to operate a taxi service allies
with government and that's why we've been saying this conversation
(10:54):
needs to be from a collaborative effort for South Africans
to feel that we're taking stronger action in that are safe.
We need to also speak about the role that law
enforcement has to play, because only they have the mandate
of ensuring that the people who cause discomfort in our
society are put away and they are put through the
systems that exist in accordance with the constitution. What we
(11:16):
can do and are doing is to suspend these people
and to ensure that they also can be moved in
terms of the taxi services. But the understanding we also
have is that these people are appearing to show criminal behavior,
and that's why we need for government from that regulatory
perspective to say to us, bring people so that if
(11:38):
it means we revoke their operating licenses, we do that,
and that for law enforcement also come when people open
cases for them to go in a risk the story
of what's happened in Mapuna mol We spoke about this
in twenty twenty three and even last year, but not
once have we got in an understanding of how far
the law enforcement agencies in terms of the investigations that
(12:01):
they've been doing with these cases. So we can suspend them,
we can't remove them from the associations, but the understanding
we have is that these are criminals and we need
for law enforcement also come to the fall to restore
the public sense of safety and for South Africans to
see that we all understand that their lives are in
danger and that we're working towards their safety.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Ma Tikiti, you'll know that the Santa Cue indsent Cape
in a recent engagement with the sector, with government and
all of that acknowledged that there are absolutely criminal elements
within the taxi industry, they are actively participating in the
protection racket that obviously is destabilizing the economy. Here. I
(12:46):
worried that there's a level of tolerance in inverted commerce
of these illegal sort of players because I don't know,
we're waiting for law enforcement to do something, which is
probably the right thing to do. But why are they
still sitting in those associations, Why are still members, why
are they're operating taxes still?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So it's exactly that Africa. The frustration is warranted. It
has to be there. But the reality of the matter
is you suspend them, and I promise you suspend them
today and they move to the next association tomorrow. But look,
I'll also admit to you and the listeners that we've
(13:27):
also got some sectors, some amongst the industry, will also
resort to even bullying of the leadership of the taxi industry,
some of the murders that we've been recording, for instance
in the Western Cape of late the suspension. The suspense
that we are having, which of course has not been
proven to be truthful or otherwise, is that some of
(13:48):
these members are people, for instance, who maybe are a
chairperson and they were told by these bullies who appear
and behave like mafia's that you're going to have to
allow me to operate or alfa life could be in
danger and that person for some reason may be stalled
or does not allow them. The next day you hear
their life has been lost. Which so even the industry
(14:10):
itself is in dire need of protection by law enforcement.
And some say we can do all that we can,
but beneath there's an aspect that we just don't have
the power to undertake. That's why we've also been saying
those taxi based task teams in our police stations, what
happened to them? Are they still doing in work? Do
(14:31):
they need to be heightened in any way? It has
to be a collaborative effort Africa. I promise you it's
not that we don't do enough. We're only doing that
which we can, but their limitations and only law enforcement
in government can pitch the gap.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
All right, we'll leave it there, thank you very much, Matikidi.
Rebecca Palace speaking on behalf of the South Askan National
Taxi Council
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