Trump Meets Zelenskyy in the Oval Office

President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy met at the White House in high-stakes talks over the war in Ukraine. Africa Melane speaks to Gustavo De Carvalho from the SA Institute of International Affairs.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Massive developments in Washington, d C. Over the last few hours.
US President Donald Trump, saying has begun arranging a meeting
between Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenski and Russian President of Vladimir
Putin after a summit that he had with Zelenski and
European leaders. The President saying discuss a plan with Putin
in a call during his negotiations with the European leaders.

(00:24):
At the same time, though, President Serama Pasa was a
recipient of a call and a briefing from President Vladimir
Putin following his summit with President Donald Trump in Anchorage
in Alaska in the United States this past Friday. What
does all this mean? Joining me on the line is
Gustavo di Cavalio, international relations consultant and advisor and a

(00:45):
research at the South Afkian Institute of International Affairs. Gustavo,
A very good morning and welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning, thank you very much for having me here.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Let's start with South Africa, South African President and Russian President. First,
we are part of the Bricks Group of nations. I
would argue we are a minority partner, but a partner
and the les why would so Ramapasa have received a
briefing from Putin and we must remind listeners here. Once

(01:17):
the summit was confirmed between Trump and Putin, that was
a call Major Ramapasa and post that summit there's now
been a second.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Call, thank you, and sincely, what we have seen sot
Africa doing in the last two years, I would say,
is to present itself as a country that can actually
bridge connections between Russia and Ukraine. So in that regard
and what we saw in the last couple of weeks
as well, the Sardaska position in itself not as a

(01:48):
major player within those conversations, but one that can offer
some possibilities. Considering that President Ramaposa has been in talks
as matt and Zolenska early in the year, it has
open channels with the crimeline as well and potentially can
be a country that can serve to lead some of

(02:09):
those discussions. I think South Afka has presented itself willingness
of engaging on issues related to the issue of the
abducted children and even issues potentially related to the exchange
of prisoners. Will South Africa be a major player around that,
I don't think so, but it certainly it showcases that
so Africa does have a role to play, even if

(02:31):
a marginal one.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
The meeting between Zarlenski and Donald Trump, and by extension
then the leaders from the EU, I suppose, was an
indicator of that.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
One of the takeaways was the fact that security guarantees
were offered, including plans for Ukraine to purchase ninety billion
dollars in American weapons while Ukraine is going to be
producing drones, and that agreement will be formalized over the
next sort of week or ten days. You almost need
something as concrete as that to back up any negotiation

(03:07):
that you're going to have right with those two parties.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Absolutely, and we need to think that there's a number
of issues to be dealt with at the same time.
We have the issues of security guarantees that have been
put on the table. We've seen very clearly from the
US side, the mentioning that there's not an expectation that
Ukraine would join NATO, but some different types of a

(03:34):
coalition of a willing led by Ukraine and Europe and
perhaps supported by the United States. What will that mean
and under what conditions that it's yet to be seen,
but it does provide some sense of what is the
next steps that we can expect in terms of what

(03:55):
are some of those conditions that can be met, but
noting that there is some really deep structural issues that
have to be dealt with. Still the issues of territorial
concessions is still very contentious and very difficult conversations to
be held, the issue about abducted children that has been

(04:16):
a topic of conversation not only between the leaders but
also between the first wives, what we saw in the
last couple of days and the exchanges of letters between
First Wives. There's the issues about prisoners of wars, and
there's also the issues about the sustainability of those agreements
in the future and what mechanisms will be developed, including

(04:40):
the potential deployment of peacekeeping operations if an agreement is met,
and all of those remain as part of the conversations,
remain unsolved, but at the same time shows under which
directions these conversations will be going.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
How would you advise President Ramapos then, how does he
navigate this rather delicate sort of terrain that is finding
himself in, particularly given the fact that there will most
likely be a bilateral between Zelenski and Putin and ultimately
a trilateral that will involve Donald Trump as well.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
I think as bizarre as many of these developments have
sound in the last couple of months and the changes
that have been made, the one interesting aspect is that
Southafka's position that dialogue must be found and there is
must be a conversations between the two parties. So certain
extent we are seeing a portion of what South Africa

(05:41):
has been presented. I think for President Ramaposa presenting a
cautious but present and showcasing what South Africa can do
to assist that I think for me is an important
role that can be played. I don't think anyone expects
South Africa to be the main major broker, the major player,

(06:02):
but it does provide a degree of support that a
country from the global self is putting its weight behind
the possibilities of negotiations and dialogue irrespectable what the conditions
are being found and are being constructed from the different
of the parties. That can provide a very positive role

(06:23):
for South Africa, but also at the same time that
does not impose itself as one of the major players.
Considering that this is an issue that is happening far
away from the source that is an advantage for South Africa,
but it's also a disadvantage in terms of its own
leverage that it can provide.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Gristava, thank you very much, indeed, for your insights this morning.
Gustavo de Calio is an international relations consultant and advisor
as well as a researcher at the Sadaskan Institute of
International Affairs. Reflecting on the briefing that presidents of Roma
post are received from President Vladimir Putin yesterday on the
outcomes of the latter's meeting with President Donald Trump that

(07:07):
was recently held in Anchorage in Alaska,