Ryan Habbena: The Seed Promise

Ryan Habbena walks us through the seed promise, from the curse on the serpent following the Fall in Genesis to the ultimate victory in Revelation. (02:00) Exploring the Seed Promise and War (13:26) The Seed War and Promise (27:49) Advancing the Seed Promise (36:22) Comparing Genealogies in Gospels (43:41) Understanding the Seed Promise Fulfillment (56:40) […]

Episode Transcript

Andy (00:34):
This is Echo Zoe Radio Episode podcast
outreach of Echo Zoe Ministries, where
you'll hear about important topics
affecting the church today.
Our primary goal is to explore a variety of
issues while remaining faithful to God and
his word.
Stay with us for the next hour as your host,
andy Olson, shares his conversation with
this month's guests.

(00:55):
Here's your host, andy Olson.
I'm Andy Olson.
Thanks for listening to Echo Zoe Radio.
This is episode 192 for August 2024.
Radio.
This is episode 192 for August 2024.
After a three-month hiatus, I'm back with
another episode.
Ryan Habana is also back as this month's
guest, bringing with him the topic which is
the seed promise.

(01:15):
In an attempt to get this episode posted at
the beginning of August, show notes are
minimal and this episode is audio only.
You'll find the episode page at echozoecom,
slash 192.
Finally, I want to remind everyone about
the Christian Podcast Community.
As a member of the Christian Podcast
Community, I can't recommend it highly
enough.

(01:35):
There are dozens of fantastic podcasts
available to the Christian Podcast
Community, focusing on a wide variety of
subjects, and all in a biblical manner.
While the podcasters in the Christian
Podcast Community don't agree on everything,
all of them seek to glorify God through
their shows.
Check them out at
christianpodcastcommunityorg.
And with that, here's my discussion with

(01:57):
Ryan.
Ryan, you're back.

Ryan (02:03):
I'm back, yep, but you've been gone for a
couple months, right?

Andy (02:07):
The last episode I did was April, which I
posted at the end of April.
Yeah, so I'll say welcome back.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, so no May episode.
No June episode.
No July episode.
We're recording July 28th, but we'll post
this in August.
Yeah, it's good to have the yearly episode

(02:28):
on the calendar here.
Yeah, so, and I've actually already
recorded our introduction, conclusion and
stuff, so stick around if you're interested
on some of that.
The last two minutes of audio for this file.
I'll talk a little bit about the absence of
uh and not having episodes for three months
and kind of where that is and what's,

(02:49):
what's, what's been and what's coming stuff.
A little bit.
Not much to say, but if you're curious, the
last two minutes

Ryan (02:56):
Cool.

Andy (02:57):
So the uh topic you brought with us is the
seed promise.
Yeah, there, uh, with us is the seed
promise, yeah they're uh, you know, you
usually leave it in my lap to come up with.
You always come up with something better
than I could give you.

Ryan (03:11):
Well, I don't know about that, but
sometimes we, you know, when we've talked,
we've talked about some, some things that
are a little more laser focused.
This is something that is is very broad in
scope that we're going to talk about, but
it's something that even within the next
hour or so, however long we want to talk
about this, we really can get into some

(03:35):
elements of the scriptures that, if you're
not aware of them, they really do help you
advance in your knowledge of the whole
counsel of God, in your knowledge of the
whole counsel of God.
And this seed promise, if you're unfamiliar
with it, you might be unfamiliar with it in
its explicit declaration, but the essence

(03:59):
of the seed promise, if you're a believer
in the Bible, if you're a believer in the
gospel, in some way you know it already.
You just maybe aren't categorizing it
correctly or are just I say this in a nice
way are just ignorant of the expansive
nature of this theology that we find that

(04:21):
begins in Genesis and goes all the way
through the book of Revelation, and we'll
probably get into how that specifically
comes about, where we see that, in both the
early chapters of Genesis as well as the
book of Revelation, the word seed, the seed

(04:43):
promise, revelation.
The word seed, the seed promise is there.
We'll talk about the essence of the word
itself.
But the other thing is, not only is there a
promise with the seed, it's actually a war,
and this war is the war of all human

(05:05):
history.
And we'll find that in the origin of this
seed promise, seed war, this seed
declaration in Genesis 3.15.

Andy (05:13):
Now, when you bring topics, a lot of times
it seems to come out of your you know you
teach this through the Bible class and a
lot of times it seems to come out of that
because you'll bring in these topics that
relate to themes that are woven throughout
the scripture, beginning to end.
Is that really where this comes from?

Ryan (05:32):
Yeah, it really is something that I do
quite a bit.
I teach cover to cover each year and
oftentimes I have several classes where I'm
doing that each year Genesis to Revelation,
cover to cover in the Bible.
And in order to do that in a way that
people are going to grasp, you really do

(05:53):
need to have these thematic things that
people are looking for and looking at, and
the seed promise is one of those pillars
that, as we go from Genesis through
Revelation, we'll constantly be noting that
this is a seed promise.
Here We'll be looking in Genesis or Exodus

(06:16):
or Ruth, for instance, or the beginning of
Matthew.
You know this is the seed promise.
And then conflicts.
You know this is the seed war, the war
between the seed of the woman and the seed
of the serpent.
And although it might not be explicitly
declared as that in certain texts, the

(06:37):
concept is there.
So, yeah, you're right that you know.
I think it was either last time or a couple
years ago.
We talked about the transfiguration, so
even that, we have a singular episode that
is chronicled in the Synoptic Gospels but
that has big ramifications for the whole

(07:00):
counsel of God, with the law and the
prophets and the Messiah, the old covenant,
the new covenant, elements that are therein.
So it is kind of a hallmark of number one.
I think it's good because I know we're
going to have enough to talk about.
So this will be a truncated version of

(07:22):
looking at the seed promise.
We'll see where, like I told you pre-show,
we'll see where the conversation takes us,
because there's so many different places we
can go.

Andy (07:31):
Yeah, well, that's like I said.
That's why I generally, when I ask you to
come on, I don't have a topic, because you
always have something.
That's like I said.
It's more interesting than I can bring and
ask you to talk about.

Ryan (07:43):
Well, and again.
If next year we're still doing this, you
can always, if the Lord so wills, you can
always throw a top in my way.

Andy (07:50):
Yeah Well, and I still haven't had a chance
to do your Through the Bible course that
you do, but everybody I've ever talked to
who's done it just raves about it how
awesome it is.

Ryan (08:02):
I think the reason people really are
impacted by it is seeing the cohesive
nature of the bible.
Uh, it isn't.
These aren't 66 loose books that are just
disconnected to one another.
This, these are 66 books that are united by

(08:22):
the inspiration of Holy Spirit and there
are particular themes that are flowing
through each of the books.
And, like I said, the seed promise, or the
seed concept, is one that not only starts
in Genesis 3.15, but it advances in

(08:43):
different ways Genesis 3.15, but it
advances in different ways.
We'll talk a little bit about Abraham, this
episode, and how important it is to
understand the promise that God gives to
Abraham regarding his seed, his offspring.
And the scriptures tell us that if we're
going to be saved, we have to be Abraham's

(09:04):
offspring.
And in what sense are we Abraham's
offspring?
And Paul answers that in Galatians, chapter
3.
But that's the seed promise.
It's a concept that is found early and
again, this isn't anything novel.
This isn't anything that I've in any way

(09:27):
originated.
This is something that is found in modern
theology.
It's found in ancient theology.
It's found in even rabbinical,
intertestamental works.

(09:47):
So it is something that is ancient in not
only its origins but ancient in its
commentaries and, as far as our
understanding of the seed promise, the New
Covenant writings are primary because that
helps us understand the fulfillment.
What we find in the Old Testament for the
most part is the promise and the

(10:11):
advancement of the promise of the seed.
It's ultimately with the coming of Christ
that the seed promise finds its fulfillment.
And then there is a one a one in many
dynamic that we'll talk about, that uh,
there is one seed, that's what paul says,
but there's also many uh within this seed

(10:32):
promise that are going to experience the
crushing of the serpent's head or
inheriting the uh, the promises given to
abraham and their, their fourth and one of
the other things we'll talk about a bit
found in Genesis 3.15, is the seed war.
There is a conflict that is announced in

(10:56):
Genesis 3.15 between the seed of the woman
and the seed of the serpent, and I think
that's the conflict that is at the backdrop
of kind of all human history, something
that we can see throughout history.
The seed of the serpent is against the seed
of the woman, god's chosen line, god's

(11:17):
chosen people and person, and that's
something that we see throughout history
and we see today.
We see it rearing its head today as well.

Andy (11:26):
Yeah, I was just going to ask you.
I assume you're starting in Genesis 3.
You've already said 3.15.

Ryan (11:32):
Yeah, so why don't we just start there
Again to contextualize this?

Andy (11:39):
You want me to read it?
Sure, go for it.
So Genesis 3.15,.
I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her
offspring.
He shall bruise your head and you shall
bruise his head - his heel.

Ryan (11:51):
his heel yeah.
So the context here is, of course, the, the
fall of humanity.
So the serpent has come and we know the
serpent.
Whatever else we want to say about the
serpent, there's all sorts of interesting
things we can consider, but the serpent is
satan.
That's something that we find in the
commentary of the new testament, and not

(12:11):
only history, but new testament
specifically says the serpent of old is
satan, and so this is the enemy, the great
enemy of the people of god, the great enemy
of humanity.
And so he tempts Adam and Eve and they fall.
And here, what we are finding here is the

(12:32):
Lord giving announcements to the serpent,
to the woman and to the man, to Adam.
And so this what we find here in chapter 3,
is directed to the serpent when he says I
will put enmity between you and the woman.
So there is conflict.

(12:52):
The Lord is establishing enmity as conflict.
So you have conflict between you and the
woman.
So Eve is the originator here.
The one that is going to produce or is
going to come forth from Eve is the
fulfillment of the promise.

(13:12):
Now we see the conflict then extends
between your offspring and her offspring.
So Eve is going to have offspring that
comes forth from her, and the serpent also
has offspring.
Now this is a little bit of a tricky
question is who is the serpent's offspring?

(13:35):
And there are a few different ways we could
go with that.
Uh, there are um people that look at some
of the early things that happened in
Genesis.
In regards to Genesis, chapter 6 and the
sons of God going into the daughters of men,
some people really look at that as perhaps

(13:58):
the primary.
I don't think that's the primary
application here.
I think, if we were to understand, what the
primary application here is is found in
John chapter 8.
In John chapter 8, jesus is in a debate.
We'll just summarize this.
We're going to have to do a lot of
summarizing today because there's a lot of

(14:21):
places to cover.
But in John chapter 8, there is a debate
about who's Abraham's seed and the people
of Jesus' day, and these were Jews that
were initially following Jesus, and Jesus
then challenges them in a way saying you

(14:45):
know, if the Son makes you free, you will
be free.
Indeed, and this offended them because it
was a declaration that they were slaves,
slaves to sin, and this started off then a
big, heated debate between Jesus and some
of the Jews of the day, and Jesus really

(15:07):
turns the table on them when he says I know
you're Abraham's offspring, but you seek to
kill me.
And he says you are of your father, the
devil, who again is opposed to the seed
promise.
And ultimately, as we advance here, we'll
see that those that are opposed to God and
his purposes, and God and his Messiah,

(15:30):
these are the sons of the devil or of the
seed of the serpent.
So I don't think this is necessarily
speaking of a natural progeny.
I think it's speaking of a natural progeny.
I think it's speaking of a uh, a figurative
offspring.

(15:50):
The son of satan isn't saying that they are
actually spawns of satan, but rather they
embody the opposition that satan has
against god and his, his promise and people.
So we have this enmity, we have this war
and the word between your offspring and her
offspring.
Now the word here is in Hebrew, zerah, and

(16:11):
Zerah is a term that means seed.
It does mean seed or offspring, and it's in
what's called the collective singular, and
this is important.
Paul actually speaks on the grammar of this
in Galatians, chapter 3, which is the

(16:32):
collective singular, is basically it's a
word that, depending on context, can either
be speaking of one or speaking of many.
The English equivalent, seed is actually an
English equivalent, but deer is another one.
We wouldn't say there's a bunch of deers.

(16:53):
We would say if there's one deer, there's a
deer.
Or if there's 20 deer we would say, oh,
there's a herd of deer.
So, depending on context, the word Zerah
can mean one or many, and both, I think,
are embedded here.
So the serpent has offspring.

(17:17):
He has many offspring that are opposed to
God and his purposes, but there's also one
that ultimately is going to uh go forth in
ultimate opposition to god and his purposes
and and I do think the ultimate seed of the
serpent is going to be the antichrist uh,
in the same way, the woman's offspring.

(17:39):
And again, this is god's chosen lineage.
Now this launches a promise that when we
see here, we see he shall wound your head
and you shall wound his heel, and I think
wound is probably better rather than bruise.
Bruise we kind of think of just a flesh

(17:59):
wound.
A wound is likely better.
A heel wound is one that is brought about.
It's not fatal, at least it's not decisive.

(18:19):
I should say it's in the process of uh
crushing the serpent's head.
The uh, the he here, and the he here is in
the singular, so the he here there is a,
and it's a masculine singular, so there is
a male child.

(18:40):
That's what.
That's all the evidence we're given here.
That is going to crush the serpent's head.
Uh, destroy the works of the devil is how
john would put it.
So, um, this is called by many, um, going
again back.
Like I said this, the commentaries on this
go back a long ways this has been called by
many the proto evangelium, or the first

(19:02):
gospel, the first time the gospel.
It speaks of the wounding but also the
conquering of this he that is gonna come
from Eve.
So have you ever wondered why there is so
many genealogies in the Bible?
Let's be honest, most of the time we
probably skip over them.
If we're reading them, but especially the

(19:23):
book of Genesis.
But reading them, but especially the book
of genesis.
But again, going beyond the book of genesis,
there are other ones.
We have genealogies and the genealogy
especially in the book of genesis, uh.
And then when we get in the new testament,
it's the same thing.
It's tracing the seed promise.
Uh, there's this war, remember, remember in

(19:44):
Genesis that I'll put enmity between you
and the woman, between her seat and your
seat.
I believe Cain and Abel are ultimately an
expression of this seed war.
The serpent counterattacks and he looks to
either corrupt or destroy.

(20:04):
So he corrupts Cain to murder righteous
Abel, and then what we find is, you know, a
male child of Eve is corrupted, a male
child of Eve is destroyed.
So they're both in kind of a sense
disqualified, because again, the
implication here is the one that destroys
the seed of the woman is going to be

(20:25):
righteous, not the seed of the woman, the
seed of the serpent is going to be
righteous.
So then Seth is born, and then we have this
genealogy that makes its way through the
early chapters of Genesis, which brings us
to, ultimately, to Noah.

(20:46):
And what I often say in my classes is the
most precious thing that was actually
preserved on the ark wasn't animal life we
wouldn't even necessarily say it was human
life itself it was the promise that God
said one of Eve's offspring is going to
crush the serpent's head, and that was
preserved with Noah on the ark.

(21:07):
If God would have wiped out all humanity
Genesis 3.15, this crushing of the
serpent's head wouldn't be something that
would come about.
So we have, in the early chapters of
Genesis, this raging seed war going on.
Yeah, and I'm thinking as you're saying
this, that the serpent, at this point,

(21:28):
doesn't necessarily have any kind of
timetable.
He doesn't know if this is next week, next
year, thousands of years from now, whatnot,
so he's going to counterattack right away
Cain and Abel, right, not knowing and
thinking.
Well, I can thwart this.
Right and even the corruption of humanity.

(21:53):
There's a debate about whether the sons of
God going into the daughters of man was
angelic going in to corrupt the line of
humanity because it's a human.
That's the position that I think is most
compelling and I think that is part of the
seed war and God when it says Noah was

(22:15):
perfect in his generations.

Andy (22:17):
You know, I have about a quarter of my
listeners just turn this off.
Well, you're one of those guys.

Ryan (22:21):
Yeah, right exactly.
Well, to let them know that's not going to
be the dominant theme that we have here oh
they don't care about that.
No, stay listening, stay listening, there's
still a good amount of meat on the bone to
nourish you.
But again you get to Noah.
And again Noah was perfect in his

(22:43):
generations.
In his generations the seed promise was
preserved through God preserving Noah and
his family on the ark, and he destroyed the
rest of humanity.

(23:04):
Now you have them, come out of the Ark and
the seed promise is still alive.
And so the next step is Japheth oh, not
Japheth.
Shem, shem is the next step of the seed
promise.
So you have Ham, shem and Japheth, and Shem
is the next step.

(23:25):
He's the one that's chosen, and we read
elements of this in the wake of the ark.
And he continues Shem is where we get the
term Semitic from.
It's a little bit of a misnomer because
usually when we talk about Semitic, we're
talking about just the Jewish people.
But if we're being really

Andy (23:42):
it's an allusion to the seed promise.

Ryan (23:45):
Yeah, it is Shem.
And Shem is actually wider in scope than
just the Jews, because all the Semitic
people come from Shem, if we're being
really specific in the way the term is used.
But as we look at again the continued

(24:05):
genealogy, so there's a continued genealogy.
Why does it matter?
But as we look at again the continued
genealogy, so there's a continued genealogy,
why does it matter?
What does it matter that Shem, where the
line of Shem leads to, well, it stretches
back to Genesis 3.15.
The next link in the seed promise is a huge
one and that is Abraham.

(24:26):
So, as we read in chapters 10 and 11 of
Genesis which brings us to chapter 12, we
have genealogy and elements that lead us to
Abraham, and Abraham's significance cannot
be really overstated.
It is so significant because, out of this
sea of humanity, now God chooses Abraham
and it's through Abraham that he makes

(24:48):
continued promises.
Now, this isn't a shift or a change in his
plan, it is an advancement of his plan.
And when he speaks to Abraham, he speaks to
Abraham regarding his Zerah, his seed.
Abraham and his seed are going to be

(25:09):
blessed.
They're going to be blessed with the land
of of canaan, um, which they're not going
to inherit yet.
Uh, we read of that in in genesis as well
as in hebrews that abraham, isaac and jacob.
And, by the way, when we look at that, when
we refer to abraham, isaac and jac, you
know what we're referring to.
We're referring to the seed promise,

(25:31):
because Abraham is chosen and then his seed
is promised to be the heir of all of these
promises.
Now, who is the next seed?
We have Abraham, and it's Isaac, not Is
ishmael.
And then from isaac, isaac has twins.

(25:52):
And who's the next link in the seed promise?
Is it esau or is it jacob?
And ultimately, it's jacob, whose name then
becomes israel, israel, uh, is um or jacob,
abraham, isa, israel, abraham, isaac and
Jacob has 12 sons and at the end of Genesis,

(26:15):
there is promises given and ultimately, the
son that is going to continue this promise
of messianic lineage is Judah.
And so you look at the book of Genesis
itself.
The genealogies that we find in Genesis all
speak of this lineage, of the seed promise.

(26:36):
Now you start with Genesis 3.15, and
Genesis 3.15 is our first parents, and Eve
is ultimately going to give birth to an
heir, and that heir is Seth.
And we see all of these genealogies made
throughout the book of Genesis which lead

(26:56):
us and we end with Judah being the one that
has messianic elements to it that it's
going to.
The scepter will not depart from Judah
until Shiloh comes, and to him will be the
obedience of the people.
So Genesis is a book all about the seed

(27:17):
promise and that same promise that was
given to Abraham that in him and in his
seed, all the nations of the earth will be
blessed, they will inherit the land seed.
All the nations of the earth will be
blessed, they will inherit the land.

(27:37):
All of these things are outworkings of what
we find in Genesis, chapter three.
It's a continued advancement.
So, historically, then, we find the seed
promise go quiet for a while.
It's not that the seed war isn't happening,
because when we begin in Exodus, there is

(27:58):
what is often called the first pogrom of
the Israelites and I want to be careful
here, because it's very interesting we
often use the, we might say the first
program of the Jewish people.
Well, that's a little bit anachronistic,
because at this time there were Hebrews or
Israelites.
Yes, there was the tribe of Judah within

(28:20):
them, but the entity known as the Jewish
people wouldn't become kind of known as a
specific entity until after the split of
the kingdom in 930 BC, which you had Judah
to the south and Israel to the north, but
nevertheless, the first pogrom of the

(28:41):
Israelites to try to destroy this nation of
the Israelites is found in Exodus, chapter
1.
And it's fascinating to look at what was
attempted.
The Pharaoh that did not remember or know

(29:02):
Joseph, after many generations, that
generation died.
After many generations, that generation
died, but Israel grew to a large and mighty
people within the realm of Egypt.
You find that the Pharaoh that did not
remember Joseph began persecuting the

(29:23):
people of Israel and it advances in stages
until you get to the point where they want
to kill what?
Every male child.
Isn't that interesting?
So every it's.
Let the daughters live, but we're gonna

(29:44):
kill every male child that comes forth from
this people.
And I think again from a big picture
perspective, that is the seed war, the
serpent looking to destroy the male
children.
And this continues as the like, I said, the

(30:05):
seed promise.
As far as specifically the genealogy goes
quiet during the rest of the Torah, for the
most part because another tribe really
becomes front and center, and that's the
tribe of Levi, because of the giving of the
law.
Tribe of Levi because of the giving of the

(30:27):
law, but right when they enter into the
promised land.
It's interesting that the seed promise, in
kind of a radical way, takes center stage
again Now.
Like I said, there's the singular lineage,
this ancestry that is running through

(30:49):
history.
Now, ultimately, as we approach the New
Testament, we know from the testimony of
the New Covenant writings that Jesus is the
ultimate fulfillment of this seed promise,
this genealogy.
What I often talk about in my classes is is
imagine there being a dragnet, a figurative

(31:12):
dragnet, that all of the promises and
inheritance that is given to this seed,
this ancestry, after it is, after the heir
dies, or it's, or the inheritance is passed
on, it drags to the next one, so one that

(31:34):
is going to crush the serpent's head, one
that's going to bless all the nations, one
that is going to be the heir of the land
and ultimately, this is drawing us
historically then towards David, because
David's the next big link in the seed
promise, but the bridge between the Exodus

(31:56):
and the monarchy.
When you find the elements of genealogy,
one, like I said, it's really surprising
because this prostitute from Jericho, rahab,
she becomes legendary because of her faith
in the Lord and helping the spies, but the

(32:19):
big contribution that she actually has, I
should say the biggest contribution she has
to salvation history is that she marries a
man from the tribe of Judah, and Rahab
becomes part of this advancing of the seed
promise.
So Rahab and Salmon, they produce.

(32:42):
And there's another big surprise that comes
a couple generations later and that is Ruth.
Ruth marries Boaz.
So you have a Canaanite woman and a Moabite
woman that God chooses to marry, and the
book of Matthew stresses these things in

(33:03):
chapter 1.
So we'll get to that in a moment, but we
want to stop and demonstrate david as the
next kind of the um portion of the
advancement of the seed promise.
So, uh, you know, ruth is is a.

(33:24):
It is an amazing story, but it's you.
But a lot of people gravitate towards the
romance or the elements therein of these
two people coming together.
But when you get to the end of Ruth, we see
the main purpose of the book of Ruth was to
show the genealogy that leads us to David.
So the seed promise continues.
That began with Eve, goes through Abraham,

(33:46):
isaac and Jacob and Judah, and now it
brings us to David.
And David, in 2 Samuel, chapter 7, is given
a covenant and God makes a covenant with
David, very similar to what he did with
Abraham, and the covenant has to do with
David's Zerah.
Once again we have that seed promise.
And this has to do with David's Zerah.

(34:07):
Once again we have that seed promise and
this has to do with kingship and the living
of Israel as a nation and peace in the land.
And that's going to come through the son of
David.
And this, of course, is where we get really
heightened and specific messianic
terminology and and expectation the son of

(34:29):
david.
And so we see the prophets speak of this
son of david that's coming.
So again, all of these things have a
singular purpose and a singular source in
this seed promise, stretching back to gen 3
verse 15.

(34:52):
So, advancing through the seed promise, the
last link that we kind of have again, the
last real big link that we have in the Old
Testament to this seed promise, is
Zerubbabel.
Zerubbabel is a man that comes back from
the exile and is governor in Judah and his

(35:14):
name is fascinating because, first off,
he's really the last big name in the seed
promise that we find in the Old Testament,
but his name you can kind of hear the word
Zerah there.
You can kind of hear the word Zerah there
Zerubbabel, and his name means seed from
Babylon.
So there's all sorts of interesting
elements that we don't have time to get

(35:34):
into in regards to this, but there's a
curse with Jeconiah and, ultimately, this
question of is the Davidic dynasty going to
last?
If we know anything about the promises of
God, we know it's going to, and Zerubbabel
turns out to be that key that maintains the
uh, the seed promise, uh, it's life.

(35:58):
Of course we know it can't fail because god
has promised it.
But then we get of the during the silent
years and we finally get to the arrival of
the sea, the singular one, the he that is
going to crush the serpent's head, the
offspring of Abraham that is going to be
the true singular one, the singular son of

(36:19):
David that is going to be the Messiah.
And how does the New Testament start?
So let's read it.
Let's read Matthew 1, verse 1.

Andy (36:28):
The genealogy of Jesus Christ.
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ,
the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Ryan (36:36):
Yeah, this first one, this first one.
So the way we read our Bibles most of us, I
guess we turn from Malachi to Matthew and
the first thing we see is a genealogy and
it's stressed that he's the son of David

(36:58):
and the son of Abraham.
This is the seed promise.
The reason why both Matthew and Luke have
genealogies is to note the fulfillment of
the seed promise.
And so you have in Matthew you have Abraham
and David being the ones that are stressed.
In Luke, you have it going all the way back
to Adam.
And so fascinating to see.
Maybe that's fodder for a future episode.

Andy (37:20):
The differences between those two
genealogies.

Ryan (37:23):
Yep, it's a fascinating journey which
ultimately that might not be that
satisfying because I don't have the
ultimate answer, but I do know kind of the
ins and outs of the differences and I do
have some grasp of why there are
differences.

Andy (37:39):
But as far as you have a quick like, maybe
a few minute, take on that to offer, or
best saved for?

Ryan (37:45):
No, I can.
I can give you my opinion first, what we
can know, okay, uh, Matthew's purpose is to
declare jesus as the son of abraham and the
son of david, and that is, he's the one
that blesses the nations and the and the
one that is the Davidic king, the one that

(38:08):
has all authority as the king.
And we really see that in the bookends of
Matthew.
In Matthew, we see it beginning with the
son of David, the son of Abraham.
The son of Abraham is going to bless all
the nations.
That's what is declared In you and your
seed, I will bless the nations.
And at the end of the book of Matthew, you

(38:28):
have Jesus give the great commission and he
says behold, all authority is given to me
in heaven, on earth.
That's the Messiah, the son of David.
And he says go, therefore, and make
disciples of what?
Of all the nations.
So he is the fulfillment of the promises
given to David and to Abraham.

(38:52):
Fulfillment of the promises given to David
and to Abraham.
Luke is fascinating because Luke doesn't
begin his gospel with the genealogy.
It's wedged in chapter three, right after
the baptism of Jesus, when it's declared
you are my son.
And rather than having an ascending
genealogy that takes us from the beginning,
from Abraham it descends, it goes backwards.

(39:14):
So the purpose that Luke is developing is
to show that Jesus is the son of God, the
one that is going to destroy the works of
the devil, and he takes us back to the
garden where Adam failed.
It descends back to Adam, the son of God,

(39:34):
and we're taken back to the garden where
Adam failed, and so it's after the baptism
and before the temptation in the wilderness
that you have this genealogy.
So he takes us back all the way to the
garden to contrast Adam with Jesus, because
Jesus then goes forth and is tempted by the

(39:55):
serpent, and where Adam disobeyed, jesus
obeyed.
That's why that's there and I'm very
confident that's why that's there.
The bigger question I shouldn't say the
bigger question.

Andy (40:07):
I like how you juxtapose this because I,
you know, I often, unless I'm sitting there
reading myself, it's easy to lose track,
for me at least, of where these different
stories come together within a book, like,
right, you know, um, I would have to go
back and look to see, oh, the genealogy is
followed by the temptations.

(40:27):
I didn't remember that.
But I like the emphasis on context, because
there's always something you can glean from
expanding the context a little bit.

Ryan (40:39):
Yeah, and I remember when I was first
reading the Bible and I thought it was
weird that a genealogy is wedged right here,
right in between the baptism and the
temptation.
Why is there a genealogy is wedged right
here, right in between the baptism and the
temptation?
Why is there a genealogy there?

Andy (40:50):
Well, it's good to keep in mind that the
chapter and verse demarcations didn't come
along until much, much later, Right?
So as Luke was writing this, he didn't say
this is chapter one of my letter

Ryan (41:02):
and here's chapter four, that new topic,
right, right.
And so, yeah, it's there for a reason and
there's themes.
That's one thing to remember about the
Gospels.
The Gospels each have themes, and Luke has,
even though he's drawing from a lot of the
same source material historical source

(41:22):
material, it's.

Andy (41:25):
Well, Luke was a physician.

Ryan (41:27):
Yeah

Andy (41:34):
it'swell, luke was a physician, yeah, and
so I sometimes see that him going back to
adam, as you know, kind of what you're
saying, but also just to emphasize that
he's, he's a man.
Jesus is him, he's a son of god, but he is
a man

Ryan (41:41):
right,

Andy (41:43):
emphasizing his

Ryan (41:44):
humanity.
sure, and and going back to, and again,
he's, but, but he's the ultimate man, he's
the man that succeeds, uh, he's the he in,
in a sense of genesis, chapter 3, verse 15,
he's the one that actually is going to
crush the serpent's head, so reminding us,
taking us back to the garden.

(42:06):
Uh, is, is a way to.
Again, it's subtle, but it's brilliant, uh,
you know so.
Uh, the other thing in regards and this is
something that we really don't have time to
get into but the question about the
differences, um in, in, uh, the names of,

(42:27):
uh, luke, matthew's genealogies

Andy (42:31):
He follows two different branches in the
tree

Ryan (42:35):
and that's the historical suggestion.
I should say it's really pretty modern, but
it goes back.
There are evidences that goes back to, I
think, the early church that suggested this
was that Luke's was Mary's genealogy and

(42:55):
Matthew's is Joseph's.
The problem that I have with that is that's
not what the text says,

Andy (43:03):
that's where I was going to go.
I've heard that many times times, but when
I just put that aside and read it, yeah, I
don't see it

Ryan (43:11):
no, it just says this is, you know, he was
the son of, as was supposed, the son of
joseph, who was the son of, and then it
continues, uh, and then it takes us all the
way back.
So, uh, that

Andy (43:24):
well, be so that's wherewe get trouble
from our unbelieving neighbors is they like
to go to these differences and point at it
as contradictions, because they both do
appear to go through Joseph, but they're so.
I'm just looking at Luke 3.23.

(43:45):
Jesus, when he began his ministry, was
about 30 years of age, being the son, as
was supposed, of Joseph, the son of Heli.

Ryan (43:51):
So again we have son of Joseph, son of Heli.
It would be a cinch if it says Joseph, the
husband of Mary, who was the daughter of
so-and-so, who was the son of, but that's
not what it says, right?
It says it's tracing it through Joseph.
So I do think again, both genealogies are

(44:12):
correct in what they are trying to
demonstrate.
Uh, they're.
the difference is again go ahead

Andy (44:18):
sorry, as you were talking, I just kept
looking.
I went back to Matthew, chapter 1, and we
got verse 16.
We're getting to the end of the genealogy.
At this point it says and and Jacob, the
father of Joseph, husband of Mary.
So there again.
This is why, like I said, I've heard this
Mary versus Joseph genealogy, but that's
the plain reading of the text.

Ryan (44:38):
The plain reading of the text doesn't.

Andy (44:40):
But then that brings the question and we're
getting a little sidetracked.
I hope, but it's still part of the seed
promise element.
So Matthew says it's the father of Joseph
with Jacob, whereas Luke says it's Heli.

Ryan (44:53):
Right.
So which is right, and here are some of the
suggestions for it, outside of the Mary
thing, which, again, I don't see.
You know, playing with the text, they're
tracing it through Joseph, first off, we

(45:13):
know these are selective genealogies, so a
son of doesn't necessarily mean an
immediate, like father, father-son
relationship.
So there's that.

Andy (45:26):
Well, we see that elsewhere in the gospels
when jesus himself is referred to as the
son of David

Ryan (45:31):
right, of course he's not the immediate one.
So there's that dynamic.
The other dynamic is is something that, uh,
I have a hunch in regards to why there's a
difference, and it does have to do with
this Jeconiah curse that.
I referenced and it's too long to get into.

(45:54):
So let's just say that this could be good
fodder for a future discussion.
What's interesting is here's the key to
understanding the Jeconiah curse.
Interesting is, here's the key to to
understanding the jechaniah curse.
The jechaniah curse is that no son of
jechaniah was going to be ruling and

(46:14):
reigning on the throne, and it's at the
point of jechaniah in luke's genealogy
where there is a diversion.
But both matthew note Zerubbabel.
So something happens in that there seems to

(46:35):
be some sort of diversion at that point
which takes us from, rather from the kingly
lineage that we find in Matthew, through a
different lineage that still brings us back
to David, but through his son, nathan.
And so my theory is Luke is tracing a

(46:57):
genealogy that bypasses the Jeconiah curse
and it might have to do with a Leverite
marriage or something like that, where
there's an inheritance but there's a
physical uh,

Andy (47:12):
Where does Zeruabel show up on the scenes
of history?

Ryan (47:15):
He's in.
Well, right around 538 bc

Andy (47:19):
is the return of the exile

Ryan (47:21):
Right, right.
So 538 bc is, I mean, Zerubbabel is already
grown at that point, but he is um, you know
he, he's the return of the exile.
The book of Ezra, beginning of the book of
Ezra, that's where we find Zerubbabel, so
interesting things to, and they're related
to what we're talking about, the seed

(47:41):
promise.
So, anyways, we're at the you know, the
gospel account.
So Jesus is the fulfillment at the gospel
account.
So Jesus is the fulfillment of the seed
promise, and that is what we again look at.

(48:06):
There are outworkings in regards to the
seed promise, in regards to the many that
we would say Israel as a nation is related
and part of the seed promise, because they
are the many, the seed of Abraham, the
ethnic nation that comes from Abraham that
God said he would make a mighty nation of.
But we also have the spiritual offspring of
Abraham, which is most important, and that
really was the debate that Jesus had in
John, chapter 8, was yes, I know you're

(48:30):
Abraham's children, but you seek to kill me.
You're of your father, the devil.
So we need to have faith, like Abraham had.
And let's turn to Galatians, chapter 3, and
we'll see how we, whether we're Jew or
Gentile, how we are related to this seed
promise.

(48:52):
So in Galatians, chapter 3, really the
context here Paul is stressing who are the
heirs of the promises given to Abraham and
how do you receive this inheritance of the
promises given to Abraham, which are, which

(49:14):
is salvation, which is being blessed by the
sovereign Lord, and being heirs of the land,
which is the place of heaven, which will be
inherited by Abraham and his offspring.
So in chapter 3, first off, those who truly

(49:36):
are the sons of Abraham.
We see in verse 7 of chapter 3, paul says
know that it is those of faith who are the
sons of Abraham.
And the scripture, foreseeing that God
would justify the Gentiles by faith,
preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham,
saying in you shall all the nations be
blessed.
So then, those who are of faith are blessed

(49:57):
along with Abraham, the man of faith.
So, who are truly the sons of Abraham?
Well, first off, individually, the son of
Abraham is Jesus, and that's what we saw in
Matthew, chapter 1.
So he is the seed of Abraham.

(50:22):
And later on, in chapter 3, paul says in
verse 16, he says now, the promises were
made to Abraham and to his offspring.
It does not say to offsprings, referring to
many, but referring to one in your
offspring who is Christ.
So Paul notes that the one.
Paul isn't saying that there isn't a many
dynamic to the offspring of Abraham,
because we're actually going to see that
later on in the text.
And, furthermore, we would understand that

(50:44):
even within the Genesis text when, in
chapter 15, when God takes Abraham out of
the tent and says look at the sky, look at
the stars.
So will your seed be.
There wasn't just one star in the sky, it
was saying that there were many are going
to come.
But the ultimate aspect of this and Paul is

(51:06):
stressing the grammar here, showing that he
didn't say offsprings, it was offspring, it
was singular, collective singular depending
on context it was Christ.
So Christ is the seed, the ultimate heir of
the seed promise.
Now go down to verse 28 and 29.

(51:27):
This is one of the most important passages
in the Bible because it shows how, whether
you're Jew or Gentile, it doesn't matter
where you're from or what has come about.
If you're in Christ, if you're in the seed
of Abraham, in the seed of the woman, in
the seed of David, that's Jesus, you are an
heir.

Andy (51:47):
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is
neither slave nor free.
There is no male and female, for you are
all one in Christ Jesus, and if you are
Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring
heirs, according to promise.

Ryan (52:01):
So there we have it.
I mean, it's plain as day right there.
Jesus is the seed and if we're going to be
counted as Abraham's offspring in the many
sense, in the sense of being an heir of the
promise of blessing, of inheriting the land,
that is Christ's purpose and this is the

(52:27):
radical thing here in Galatians is that
Gentiles, through faith in Christ Jesus,
become heirs of the promises given to
Abraham.
This was a scandal in the first century
because there was always a thought and
proclamations in the Old Testament, and a

(52:48):
thought in regards to the rabbinical
budding of Judaism was that well, gentiles
are going to be a part of the kingdom to
come, but they're not heirs.
They're not heirs of the promises given to
Abraham.
They're going to be perhaps part of this in
some tangential manner, but not heirs.
And here we have full-standing citizens and

(53:09):
heirs of the coming kingdom that is being
given to Gentiles, and it doesn't matter
whether you're Jew or Greek, slave or free
male or female.
So that speaks.
Nationality is not an issue, economic
status isn't an issue and whether you're
male or female is not an issue.
If you are a believer in Christ, if you're

(53:31):
in Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.
You are Abraham's seed, and it's sperma
here, which is the Greek form of Zerah, and
you're heirs according to the promise.

(53:53):
So this is one of the most important texts
in regards to the seed promise, galatians,
chapter 3.
This really is one that explains the Bible
and shows how we're part of history.

(54:14):
We who believe in Christ, who confess him
as Lord and have the power of the Holy
Spirit dwelling in us.
We are fulfillments of biblical prophecy.
We are fulfillments of biblical prophecy.
We are those that are blessed among the
nations and we have faith, like Abraham.
Abraham heard the words of Christ and
believed.
We hear the words of Christ and believe,
and, even though we may not be physically
descended from Abraham, we are in Christ,

(54:34):
who is the heir, who was physically
descended from Abraham, and furthermore, we
have all the spiritual benefits of Christ
through faith.
And that's what Galatians 3 is all about.
It's not nationality that matters, it's
faith that matters.
Jew or Gentile, if you are in Christ, if
you are chosen in him before the foundation

(54:55):
of the world, if you are placed in him, if
you, you know, again, repented of your sins
and believe in him before the foundation of
the world, if you are placed in him, if you,
you know, again repented of your sins and
believe in him.
These are things that demonstrate us as
being heirs of the promises given to
Abraham, and this connects us to the whole
Bible.
It shows how what God was doing and
promising and doing through Abraham isn't

(55:16):
disconnected from us.
It's very much related to who we are right
now in Christ.
So the next portion that we can explore in
regards to this and we kind of get from
again a thumbnail sketch from Genesis to
Revelation is in Revelation, chapter 12.

(55:42):
Revelation, chapter 12 and 13,.
In particular chapter 12, though, is about
this seed war, and having this
understanding in the backdrop helps us
understand how the seed war has progressed

(56:03):
throughout history and how it still is
going on Now.
I'm a futurist in regards to the book of
Revelation, so I don't think, at least from
chapter 12, verse 6 on, I don't think these
things have happened yet, but we'll address

(56:24):
that as we go.
Now let's read the first part of chapter 12,
and we can see how this is related to the
seed promise.
Do you want to go ahead and read?
Just write out one, read one through five,
okay.

Andy (56:40):
Revelation 12:1, and a great sign appeared
in heaven a woman clothed with the sun,
with the moon under her feet and on her
head a crown of twelve stars.
She was pregnant and was crying out in
birth pains, in agony of giving birth.
And another sign appeared in heaven Behold
the great red dragon with seven heads and
ten horns and on his heads seven diadems.

(57:04):
His tail swept down a third of the stars of
heaven and cast them to the earth, and the
dragon stood before the woman who was about
to give birth so that when she bore her
child, he might devour it.
She gave birth to a male child, one who is
to rule all the nations with a rod of iron,
but her child was caught up to God and to

(57:24):
his throne.

Ryan (57:25):
Okay, so.
interesting to note the language used here.
Now, in the flow of Revelation from chapter
the end of chapter 11, we have the trumpet,
the seventh trumpet, sounding, and this is
the kingdom of God has become the kingdom
of, or the kingdom of this world has become

(57:46):
the kingdom of God and of his Christ and he
will reign forever, and so there is a
transfer of power here and what I think
chapters 12 through 14 is an interlude that
speaks of this great seed war, and one
through five is a recap.
You have the woman first, you have the
language, woman, which is interesting to

(58:07):
use, woman and that's imagery stretches us
back to genesis 3 15, but she's clothed
with the sun and the moon under her feet
and on her head a crown of 12 stars.
So this is an allusion back to Joseph's
dream in regards to Israel and the 12 sons.

(58:33):
So woman, as well as the sun and moon and
12 stars, speaks of the seed promise, I
think, stretching us again the language,
stretching us back to Genesis 3.15, but it
advancing to the point of Israel being the
carrier of this promise.
So the nation of Israel really was the one

(58:54):
that ultimately gave birth to the son.
That was what was promised.
And so you have this seed war going on and
notice here the dragon, who is the serpent
we'll read that later in chapter 12, wants
to devour the child.

(59:17):
This stretches back to Genesis 3, verse 15.
There is a son coming and, interestingly,
in verse 5, the ESV here doesn't.
There's actually a double stressing here
that the ESV decided to forego.
But it says the Greek more literally is she

(59:38):
gave birth to a son, a male child, one who
was to rule the nations.
Now I actually like having the double
stressing in there, because of course a son
is a male child.
You know, a male child is a son, but a male
child.
The reason why that, I think, is doubly
stressed when you have the male child
stressed, the reason why that, I think, is
doubly stressed when you have the male

(59:59):
child stressed, is it's an allusion back to
Genesis 3.15.
What was the one clue we had?
Who was going to crush the serpent's head?
It's a singular male.
A male child was going to crush a he.

(01:00:22):
So then we see that again, the serpent is
looking to devour, but the child was caught
up to God and to his throne, so he is the
one who is to rule the nations with a rod
of iron, and so ultimately, he fails in
devouring the male child.
And then we get to verse 6.

(01:00:44):
And verse 6 is something that the woman we
see.
The woman fled into the wilderness, where
she had a place prepared for by God in
which she is to be nourished for 1260 days.
So here we get into, based on the context
and the language of 1260 days, we get into

(01:01:05):
the happenings of this time period of
Daniel, the last half of Daniel's 70th week.
So we see that this woman flees into the
wilderness and we read on in chapter 12
that the serpent wants to destroy the woman
Again.
This is that seed war, amnity between the

(01:01:27):
woman and the serpent and between his seed
and her seed.
Now the serpent or the dragon ultimately
can't get to the woman here she's preserved.
The serpent or the dragon ultimately can't
get to the woman here she's preserved.
And interestingly, then we get to the end
of chapter 12 in verse 17.

(01:01:49):
And if you want to read verse 17, we see
the seed promise brought up.
We have the seed promise and the seed war
stressed here in language, but now it
really unfolds and is explicit when we get
to chapter 12, verse 17

Andy (01:02:04):
Then the dragon became furious with the
woman and went off to make war on the rest
of her offspring, on those who keep the
commandments of god and hold to the
testimony of Jesus.
And he stood on the sand of the sea

Ryan (01:02:16):
So we, we have the word seed here, the rest
of her seed.
So all three expressions of the seed
promise, I think, are seen here.
You have the one, the male child, who is
Christ, and the serpent can't get to him.

(01:02:38):
He fails.
He's caught up to God, he's the one that's
going to rule the nations.
Then you have the woman here who, based on
the language, speaks of the ethnic
offspring of Abraham, isaac and Jacob,
based on the language, at the beginning.
And there is a remnant here, and again I
think this has to do with the happenings at

(01:03:00):
the midpoint of the 70th week, where
there's a group that flees out of Jerusalem
that the serpent can't ultimately destroy,
and because he's not able to do that, he's
furious and goes off to make war with the
rest of her offspring.
And the description is those who hold to
the testimony of Jesus and keep the

(01:03:21):
commands of God.
This would be the church and again, the
rest of her offspring would be connected,
even though it's a different author,
connected to the concepts that we found in
Galatians 3.
Those who keep the testimony of Jesus.
And then we have verse chapter 13, which is
about how he goes to war against those who

(01:03:44):
keep the commandments of God and hold to
the testimony of Jesus.
So this seed promise dynamic, we see the
seed promise continuing.
Ultimately, who is the one that conquers?
Christ conquers and he ultimately is going
to raise his people.
He ultimately is going to redeem Israel.

(01:04:06):
And so this seed promise is something that
has its fulfillment already in the coming
of Christ.
It has its fulfillment already in the
existence of Israel, the existence of the
church, and it's going to have its ultimate
fulfillment as well when the Lord raises
his people, when we rule with him and when

(01:04:27):
he purifies Israel as a nation and they are
made clean.
And that's the things that we find in the
book of Revelation.
The serpent will not win, the serpent can't
win All of these things that Christ, that
God brings about through bringing Christ
and Christ purifying Israel and his people,

(01:04:48):
the church.
These things come about because the serpent
cannot win.
Christ is the one that crushes the
serpent's head.
And just to kind of see how this ties the
whole Bible together, in Revelation 22, the
last mention of the seed promise is in the
last chapter of the Bible, when Jesus says

(01:05:11):
in verse 16, he says I, jesus, have sent my
angel to testify to you about the things
for the churches.
I am the root and the descendant of David,
the bright morning star.
And the word there for descendant is
offspring.
So the seed promise is referenced by Jesus
here in the very last chapter of the Bible.
I am the descendant of David and again that

(01:05:31):
goes back to the promises that were given
to the seed of David, which Jesus fulfills.
He is the Messiah.
So that is a short journey through the seed
promise.
I don't know how long that took us.

Andy (01:05:45):
I got an hour and four minutes just coming
up since I hit record.

Ryan (01:05:50):
So about an hour, so that works.

Andy (01:05:52):
Incredible timing on that.
Oh, I just discovered my iPad Bible has a
book after Revelation.
It's the tables of weight and measures

Ryan (01:06:08):
Interesting.
The 67th book.

Andy (01:06:10):
Yeah, a bath Like a bath is about six
gallons or 22 liters.
Sorry, that's a, it's an aside.
It's got a bath, a becca, a core, a cubit,
a denarius.
All those things are actually good to know,
but not part of the seed promise.

Ryan (01:06:27):
Not part of the seed promise.

Andy (01:06:29):
Well, thank you, that was interesting,
great topic.

Ryan (01:06:35):
Yeah, and again, I hope those that listen
if this is something new.
What's fascinating is this is just a
cursory 20,000 feet looking over Genesis to
Revelation.
There's all sorts of minutia, further
minutia that as you go through the curse of
Jeconiah yeah, that type of stuff is all

(01:06:56):
throughout the Bible.
Yeah, that type of stuff is all throughout
the Bible.
And so there really isn't a book or a
chapter that isn't probably in some way
related to the seed promise and what God
has planned and promised and bringing about.

Andy (01:07:12):
Well, I always appreciate that.
I mean you can sit down and read your Bible,
pick up, read a couple chapters in a day
and read verse bible.
You know.
Pick up, read a couple chapters in a day
and and read verse by verse.
You know, as most christians will sit down
and do, but you don't pick up on those
things.
You know.
When you're in Galatians, it might have
been months since you read Genesis

Ryan (01:07:31):
Right and having that, having that big
picture is is is a way to, uh, really at
times further understand the smaller
picture, the more minutia is tied to the
big picture and you can really see and make
sense of the minutia in understanding the
big picture.
You need both.
Both feed off of one another.

Andy (01:07:51):
Right, yeah, cool.
Well, thank you.

Ryan (01:07:54):
it was great to be with you and discuss
these things.
Yeah, thanks, for We'll see about the curse
of Jeconiah and whether or not that is on
the agenda for.

Andy (01:08:02):
I'm going to put that on my list.
That would be a fun topic.

Ryan (01:08:07):
And that's found in Jeremiah, chapter 29,.
I believe.
Let me confirm that.
But yeah, it's in Jeremiah, because that is
the text and it really is shortly before

(01:08:34):
the declaration of the.
For the declaration of the oh, I bet you
it's back in 23.
22.
Jeremiah, 22.
Yep, jeremiah 22 is where we have the
message to Jeconiah, and what's interesting

(01:08:57):
is you have that and then in chapter 23,
you have the declaration of the righteous
branch.
That was the thing right after that.
So God's cutting off something, but he's
also saying there's a righteous branch that
is going to come, and all of those things
are things that you want to pay attention
to when looking at this curse of Jeconiah.

Andy (01:09:15):
Cool.
Well, I had more I thought would be fun to
talk about, but given time and kind of the
nature of some of what I was going to say,
I think we'll take that offline.
That's cool.
Yeah, so I appreciate it.
Thanks for coming back and giving me a
chance to kind of revive after three months
of not posting an episode

Ryan (01:09:35):
All right, thanks, andy, enjoyed it

Andy (01:09:36):
Thanks

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
Echo Zoe Radio is an outreach of Echo Zoe
Ministries.
If you are blessed by the show, please
consider offering your support.
There are many things you can do to help,
including prayer, sharing a show with
others and your financial support.
Echo Zoe Ministries is a registered
nonprofit organization with 501c3
tax-exempt status, and your donations are

(01:09:59):
tax deductible.
For more information about how you can
support Echo Zoe Ministries, please visit
echozoe dot com slash support.

Andy (01:10:08):
That wraps up episode 192.
Thanks for listening to Echo Zoe Radio.
For show notes, visit echozoe dor com,
slash 192.
Please also check out the Christian Podcast
Community.
There's an ever-growing list of fantastic
shows focusing on all sorts of topics, and
you'll find them at
christianpodcastcommunity dot org.

(01:10:29):
Before I close, I want to talk a little bit
about the future of Echo Zoe Radio.
I've been doing the podcast since May of
2008, over 16 years, and I've genuinely
enjoyed every episode.
That said, it's becoming increasingly
difficult to continue the show in its
current format.
New guests are much more difficult to get

(01:10:49):
than they were in the early days, and I'm
not sure I want to keep cycling through the
same list of guests that I've been doing
shows with for the last few years.
Podcasting is very different than it was in
2008, 2009, 2010.
In many ways for the better.
It's easy to do and there are a lot of
great people doing it.

(01:11:09):
I set out to build a library of great
material addressing important issues that
my kids could someday reference to answer
their questions.
I've also sought to make the glory of God a
foundational motivator.
The library has become respectable over the
years, and all to God's glory.
This isn't to say that Echo Zoe Radio is
coming to an end, though it's not to say

(01:11:30):
that it isn't either.
I've reached an inflection point and
honestly, I don't know where to go from
here.
I do very much enjoy producing the show.
I just don't know where else to take it.
Seeking out a new guest and topic every
month takes more than I can give.
It seems that in order to continue, the
format will need to change, but I don't
know how there's much to say about

(01:11:53):
glorifying God in Echo Zoe Ministries and
in Echo Zoe Radio.
For one, while stats have always been
interesting, they've never been a driver.
I've never been preoccupied with unique
downloads or social media reposts.
I want God to be glorified, and
preoccupation with those things seems as
though it would be to seek a piece of that
glory, a piece that isn't mine.

(01:12:16):
For that matter, being the face or the
voice of a ministry, this ministry or any
ministry isn't important either.
There are so many other podcasters out
there doing a fantastic job in producing
wonderful God-glorifying shows.
While I love it too, I don't really need it.
I get enjoyment out of being a part of
serving God in some way, whether or not I'm

(01:12:37):
the face of it.
For example, I spent 10 years recording and
producing video of the sermons at Gospel of
Grace Fellowship.
I was never asked to do it, I just took it
on and I did it.
I did it because it helped my church.
I did it because it helped God's church.
I did it because I enjoyed it.
Going forward, I'm going to continue to

(01:12:57):
pray about what to do with Echo Zoe
Ministries.
Perhaps the podcast will continue as it has,
perhaps it will change a little, or maybe
I'll pursue other means of serving Him to
His glory.
Until I get it figured out, though, I think
it only prudent to adjust the frequency of
the show.
Echo Zoe Radio will be periodical.
It won't necessarily be a monthly show

(01:13:19):
anymore, though it won't likely be more
frequent than monthly either.
This episode was recorded on July 28, 2024
as the August episode.
There may or may not be a September episode
or an October episode, but, Lord willing,
we'll be back soon with another episode of
Echo Zoe Radio.