A Moment of Reflection

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dave (00:39):
Hello, and welcome to episode 242 of Effect, a moment
of reflection. I'm Dave.

Matthew (00:49):
And I'm Matthew. And, yeah, I think that title works a
lot better than anticlimax,don't you, Lee?

Dave (00:53):
Yeah. Anticlimax might encourage people not even to
bother listening. And you'reokay. Yeah. You know, like yes.
So, yeah, good thinking at thelast minute, Matthew. Well done.

Matthew (01:04):
It's it's, a weird pause if you're here waiting for
Kickstarter news. We've got someKickstarter news, obviously, but
the Kickstarter is finished. Andwe've
got this, like, 2 weeks whileKickstarter go out and, you
know, actually get the money offpeople, before they give it to
us.

Dave (01:22):
Well, Kickstarter sit on the money and keep the interest
before they give it to us. Theydo that.

Matthew (01:28):
Kickstarter are earning well plenty from their
commission. I don't thinkthey're that worried about the
interest, but they do want youknow? I mean, I happen to know
somebody somebody communicatedwith us because, their card
failed, and they were veryworried that they weren't gonna
get in on that and the thing.And I can't remember quite how
they solved it, but they didsolve it in the end. And that's
what this 2 weeks is about isYeah.

(01:48):
For dealing with all thoseissues. Anyway, Yeah. I'm
Matthew. That's what I I did saythat, didn't I?

Dave (01:53):
Yeah. You did. Yeah. Well done.

Matthew (01:55):
And and this episode is a moment of reflection, not
least because, it's only gonnabe a moment because Dave has to
dash off to Lester to watch anincredibly important national
sporting event, apparently. Sowe have

Dave (02:09):
got the darts. I me me and my old mate, Dave, from
university used to play dartswhen we were, you know, at uni.

Matthew (02:16):
At university?

Dave (02:17):
He was the captain of the darts team, you know. I was in
the team.
I was good enough just to be inthe team, but we always wanted
to go to one of the big, dartsevents. They used to hold it
down at, Alexander Palace, whichwould have been ideal because
that's just down the rail railline from here, but they've
allude it. It's down inLeicester. And he and he he
said, look. Well, let's justbloody go.

(02:38):
Come on. Let's just do it. Andso this is our this is us going
and doing it. So we shall

Matthew (02:42):
This is.

Dave (02:43):
And eat and shout at people throwing small little
arrows at a small board that

Matthew (02:48):
And say A 100 Tiny, tiny board. I'm sure there's I'm
sure it's

Dave (02:52):
going up in the screens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm expecting it's gonna be alot of fun, actually. It's

Matthew (03:02):
gonna be quite random. And when somebody scores 180,
what does the audience do?

Dave (03:02):
I think they clap and cheer and maybe go

Matthew (03:04):
Oh, they don't all shout in unison. 180. Mate.

Dave (03:08):
You know, I'll I'll tell you next time. I'll find out
later.

Matthew (03:11):
Okay.

Dave (03:11):
Yeah.

Matthew (03:12):
Cool. So, Darts, Dave is getting into that incredibly
athletic sport. That's good.

Dave (03:18):
That does remind me of the weekend of the news sketch,
which is about Darts, but it wasall about drinks on the table.
And he had,

Matthew (03:25):
oh, he's

Dave (03:25):
he's he's gone for the pint. He's gone for the pint
early. Oh, that's a risk. That'sa risk. Double scotch.
Yeah.

Matthew (03:33):
I do remember that sketch.
That
I don't I don't remember the, with whom I live
sketch, but

Dave (03:39):
I do remember. Who I live with. Yeah. With whom I live.
Yeah.
Anyway, sorry.

Matthew (03:46):
So, so we've got a a reasonably concise world of
gaming. There is a lot of worldof gaming news, so we'll talk
through that. And we thought inthis sort of we've also got you
know, we're gonna keep youupdated now every fortnight,
with with what's going on in, inour development of Tales of the
Old West, so we've got some moreOld West news. But we thought,

(04:08):
given that this is a moment ofreflection, we would just look
back on where we started. AndDavid's done a little essay,
reflecting upon Coriolis.
And so and I think, you know, Iit's inspired some thoughts in
me, so I I will argue with himat the end of it as well.

Dave (04:31):
As as is traditional, of course.

Matthew (04:33):
As is traditional. Yes. So, oh, the one thing I didn't
check Dave, carry on talking fora bit. I don't think we've got
any new patrons.

Dave (04:42):
Jake. Just check. Yes. So, okay. This is a a unscheduled
little thing.
So anyway, well, with gaming,I'd like to start talking about
we've got a lot of stuff here.So, one one interesting thing
that, that came up was the,Pendragon game which came out.
Yeah. And Chaosium have nowannounced they are launching

(05:03):
what's called the companions ofArthur, which I haven't looked
into deeply, but I saw it. Butit's, it's a community content
platform, is that the right wayof putting it, for, for fans to
create their own stuff for thenew pen dragon which is cool.
I haven't got my new pen dragonbook yet. I don't know when
that's due to arrive.

Matthew (05:24):
No. Have you not?

Dave (05:25):
I've got a starter set, but I I ordered the book, I
think. Or did I maybe I didn'tyet.

Matthew (05:31):
Well, yeah, I would have thought you should have had
it by now. It was on sale atEssen.

Dave (05:35):
Yeah. So maybe I maybe I maybe I was going to order, but
I haven't got around to doingit. But, yeah, so I need to get
that. So that'll be, that'll begood. Although I'm I'm I don't
know.
I'm I'm a bit conflicted becauseI've I've, you know, I've loved
our campaign of Pendragon overthe decades. I'm not sure I'm

(05:56):
ever gonna start my own. Soit's, it's it's an interesting
one, because I'm not sure I'mnot sure how that how that would
work out really. And I, youknow, I don't frankly have time
for for new campaigns at theminute. And as we'll discuss
later, I am at the start of anew Coriolis campaign, which,

(06:17):
you know, I haven't had time todo justice to yet, but I
certainly will and lookingforward to getting into.

Matthew (06:23):
Yeah. I don't feel the need to run a new Pendragon
campaign having played inAndy's. This is Andy Gibbs, old
school friend, for almost 40years. Some I mean, he's been
our friend for all of that time.But Yeah.
But we've been playing thatsingle Pendragon campaign for

(06:44):
almost 40 years. I feel, youknow, that that's Penn Dragon
done. It might be difficult.That game anymore, David.

Dave (06:52):
It might be difficult to top that experience, wouldn't
it? So, Absolutely. Yeah.

Matthew (06:58):
Yes. And that and the the thing about you can't step
in the same river twice. And,Yeah. I I think we might be
disappointed. I mean, I'm surenew Pendragon is lovely.
It's probably, you know, I mean,Andy's been playing with
effectively first edition rules,plus a little bit mixed in from
other stuff, plus some, youknow, households and stuff

Dave (07:19):
like that.

Matthew (07:20):
Yeah.
Yeah. So I, I expect the new, version is much tighter
and has all the best bits ofwhat we loved about Peb Dragon
and none of the crappy bits. So,you know, I urge people to get
it, and I urge people to writefor it as well. I don't think,
you know, I don't think,actually, I'd urge, Andy to

(07:41):
write for it because I I don'tthink our campaign was quite in
the spirit of what Pendragon wasmeant to be. I think your man,
Greg Stafford, definitely didn'timagine it as the dark ages post
Roman sort of setting that wedid.
I think he did see it as the15th century knights in shining

(08:04):
armor, but also set in the darkages, weirdly, this thing. So
I'm not sure that any of ouradventures would necessarily
work being written up and and,Yeah.

Dave (08:17):
That's that's interesting because, I mean, if you, you
know, if you watch sort of, youknow, Excalibur, classic movie,
which I think quite a lot ofpeople might take inspiration
from for, you know, for for aPendragon game. That is very
much, you know, 15th centuryknights in very, very shiny
armor, but dumped back into, youknow, the dark ages.

Matthew (08:41):
One of my favorite films, Sat.

Dave (08:43):
It is a classic film. I mean, I always the the scene

Matthew (08:46):
Berlin?

Dave (08:47):
Sorry. The scene the scene where Arthur and, you know,
where he finally night nightshim, that's just making the
making, my my spine shiver justthinking about it. That's
absolutely superb superb scene.And Merlin is saying, what? I
didn't see this.
And it's just it's it'sbrilliant to say.

Matthew (09:06):
Love it.

Dave (09:06):
But but that I think that's very much, a lot of
people's inspiration or or, youknow, expectation maybe of what
a Pendragon game would be like.And I think you're right. I
think that's probably what, GregStafford was was aiming, driving
towards more than a sort of I Iused the word maybe, you know,
maybe it's not the best word,sort of more of a gritty kind of

(09:26):
dark ages, as you say, postRoman world Mhmm. That that we
did. Yeah.
I'm I'm not really sure whatAndy would have done differently
if he was trying to set it morein that Excalibur style than,
you know, a dark ages historystyle because I

Matthew (09:44):
think I don't think he would have wanted to. I don't
think he'd have played it at allif he'd been forced to do

Dave (09:49):
it in that. But I'm not sure what he'd have done
differently because the gamecertainly had that knights in
shining armor kind of vibe, butset in that, you know, post
Vortigern, you know, world of,you know, Vortigern being a, you
know, historical figure at theend of the Roman occupation of
Britain. Yeah. I don't know whatit would have done differently,

(10:12):
but it definitely had that kindof feel. It had that messier,
dirtier, muddier feel, you know,than the cleaner feel maybe of
of sort of the Excalibur style.

Matthew (10:23):
Yeah. So, one of my I ought to say, we ought to add on
maybe to the end of thissection, a bit of an SN report
because I've just realized

Dave (10:34):
Absolutely.

Matthew (10:35):
I
haven't mentioned that at all. And, one of my
colleagues on the stand wentover and talked to somebody we
know at, Chaosium. It's thefirst time Chaosium have had a
proper stand there, so they werethey were all there. There was
lots of exchange of of of chatsand stuff like that. Nice to see

(11:00):
them.
Of course, with a show as big asthat, you don't get to spend as
much time as you want with withanybody. No. Oh, oh, god. I his
name's on the tip of my tongue,the person he spoke to. Did did,
some work for Modiphius onConan.

(11:20):
Dowell? Dowell? Oh, shit.Anyway, This is great podcast.
Somebody went to buy somebodywent to buy something else and
came away with Pendragonbecause, the your man said it's
it's the best thing we've gotfor sale at the stand today.
So, yeah, I urge people to getPan Dragon. Yamane, Thomas, one

(11:43):
of our patrons is running acampaign now, and, I think
everybody's thoroughly enjoyingit. And that yeah. And I do
believe, in fact, that inAustralia, Thomas was, invited
to write for the, for thecompanions of Arthur. Yeah.

Dave (11:58):
Yeah. He said

Matthew (11:59):
it to me.

Dave (12:00):
That's cool. That's really good.

Matthew (12:02):
So, yeah, we should see something from him there. If he
does anything as half as good ashis,

Dave (12:07):
Japanese person. Base and something like that.

Matthew (12:10):
Yeah. We're we're going well. But, yeah. And I I I think
it's just like all the othercommunity content programs on
drive thru. So it's got a 5050split.
Right. Cool. And I urge peoplewho do write for it that they
they should. I just wonderwhether some of my my old
friend, Chris, who is actuallywriting for Chaosium, their

(12:33):
novels, and their Arthuriannovels, might might first some
stuff in there as well. Okay.
The other thing that we wereselling at, and we're selling
quite well at Essen was ElectricState, which should be hitting
people's doormats now.
Yeah.
And I quite like it. I didn't back it, but I've got a

(12:56):
review copy Yeah. Same. It has.

Dave (12:59):
I didn't exactly

Matthew (13:00):
get it. Notified about it while I was selling it in
Essen.
Mhmm.
So it didn't tempt me obviously to sell me sell sell
myself a copy. I'm I I'm likingyou know, I didn't even look at,
the PDF, but I'm liking thelovely clean layout. It looks
like it's an even simplerversion of the, the year zero

(13:23):
engine than we've seen anywherebefore. So I'm gonna read
through the rules and have alook at it. And the other thing
I'm gonna be reading through therules is it does have a lone
traveler
chapter Mhmm.
Chapter 8 Yeah. Which is a set of solo rules.

Dave (13:38):
So, yeah. So I so I I You and I

Matthew (13:40):
have a newfound interest in solo rules,

Dave (13:42):
don't we? Well, we we we do need 1. So Yeah. Seeing we've
committed to doing them. No.
I I I I got that as well. I gota review copy. I hadn't I hadn't
backed it. It wasn't somethingthat I I was expecting I would
play. As you say, you know, theusual pre league standard, it
looks lovely.
There's a great map in it of ofthe West Coast, you know,

(14:05):
California, which looksabsolutely great. It it kind of
felt a bit between, you know, aa mixture of Tales of Tales of
the Loop Tales of the Loop andWalking Dead almost in it kind
of look and feel. I haven't readit through in great detail yet,

(14:26):
But, again, it looks lovely. Andas I said, if I've if I've had a
copy come through, then thosewho've backed it should be
getting it very, very soon ifthey haven't got it already.

Matthew (14:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing that we, I think, we
both got a review copy of isPath of Glory from Dragonbane.

Dave (14:44):
Yes. That is that is true. Again, it's

Matthew (14:47):
Which according to our patrons have actually backed it.
I think we might have beatenthem to that one. So I think
that's coming to your test quitesoon.

Dave (14:55):
Yeah. I mean, again, it's, you know, I I I bought the
Dragonbane box set, and then I Ibought the bestiary largely
because they were lovely lovelybooks, and lovely products and
not really thinking I'm evergoing to run a or play in a
Dragonbane campaign. I enjoyed Ienjoyed playing it at, where was

(15:18):
it? It was Comic Con last yearwhere we ran lots of demos, and
I I enjoyed that. It was a lotof fun.
The the single d twenty is stilla bit of an issue for me these
days, frankly. Yeah. Yeah. But Imean, if if I wasn't running if
I wasn't playing or going, youknow let's start again. With a

(15:38):
fantasy setting or a fantasygame, if Forbidden Lands wasn't
there, I would very much go toDragon Vein, I think.

Matthew (15:47):
Yeah.
Yeah. I think that might be fair. I too much prefer
Forbidden Lands just because ofthe year zero engine because,
you know, obviously, we're ayear zero podcast. We can't talk
about any other engine. But but,Dragon Bathing is definitely
fun.
I so we were running demos againat, Essen. Essen. And it was

(16:10):
great fun, running those. One ofthe things that I hadn't used
before, but we we didn't it wasa simple encounter with bandits
in and in. Right.
Well, it was an encounter withthe inn. Whether or not it was
with bandits or not, it was kindof up to the players. But they
it was great to get out of thepack of cards, the improvised

(16:30):
weapons, brackets in cards, andand have a little stick it stick
stick of those. So when somebodysays, oh, I grab a bottle. I
said, well, you don't grab abottle.
Actually, pick one of theserandom cards and see what's to
hand.

Dave (16:44):
Okay.

Matthew (16:44):
And, they, and and at one point, somebody picked up a
squealing pig.

Dave (16:54):
Okay. You had you had

Matthew (16:56):
those hilarious moment. How did you notice that?

Dave (16:58):
That before. But, again, it's, you know, it's the mirth
and mayhem approach, isn't it?So and it's and, yeah, I I like
that very much indeed. I mean,the

Matthew (17:05):
We definitely sold a few copies, Essen. But I'll tell
you what, we also sold out of,Forbidden Lands. So it

Dave (17:11):
was nice to see. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it is I

Matthew (17:13):
mean, we didn't have as much Forbidden Lands as we had
Dragon Vein. But Yeah.

Dave (17:17):
I mean, I've I've said it before. I mean, Dragonbane is
such a beautifully producedproduct, and the artwork is just
great. And it really has alovely feel to it. Again, it's
another one of those books. Youknow, I've said before, you
know, I don't play Versen verymuch these days.
And, you know, until you getaround to running the next one
with with my butler characterFerguson, I probably won't. But

(17:37):
every now and then, I just liketo take the book off the shelf
and and be

Matthew (17:41):
Look at it.

Dave (17:42):
It's like it's like, you know, this should be a, you
know, a way of gaining a pointof faith in Tales of the Old
West, taking down your favoritebook and flicking through it.
Because it feels it feels likeit. It feels like it because
it's such a lovely book, and Ithink Dragonbane has a similar
sort of feel to it as well. Itjust just feels good to flick
through it. And, yeah, it'sjust, you know, the the quality

(18:03):
of it is is remarkable,actually.
It's it's, yeah. It's one ofthose games games where they've
kind of sprinkled it with thatfree league pixie dust, which
just adds something which is alittle bit intangible.

Matthew (18:17):
Yes. Yeah. It it is it is marvelous, actually. Now, I
noted so interestingly, somebodywho shall remain nameless said
something to me at the Essen atEssen, which was, yeah. I think
we learned our lesson about,announcing second editions.

(18:40):
And sure enough, I noticed wedon't have a second edition of
alien coming anymore. Instead,we've got an evolved edition.

Dave (18:48):
Yes. The evolved edition, which is an interesting
workbook, is it? Because it'sstill, you know, alien e 2.
Yeah. But it's e 2 as in its twoe's.
It's the evolved edition e 2

Matthew (18:59):
Yeah.

Dave (18:59):
Rather than edition 2. Yeah. It's it's interesting,
isn't it? I think they yeah. Thebacklash, is that the right way
of putting it or at least thethe response from the, from the
community

Matthew (19:12):
From the community.

Dave (19:13):
About it being a second edition as in do we need 1? You
know, this is too early, hasobviously landed with them, and
they've realized that actuallythat was, you know, a slight
misstep. And, yeah, I mean,calling it an evolved edition is
great because, I mean, at leastit makes a bit more sense. Yeah.
And it's clearer that, you know,they've they've been very clear

(19:34):
about the fact that all theprevious first edition or
unevolved, alien, is all gonnabe backward back compatible with
the new stuff, which is good.
So yeah. Oh, yeah. I saw that. Ihad a little sort of wry smile.
Interesting that, you know, eventhough even though you've not

(19:55):
you're not saying who said it,we could probably work it out by
who was who was so who who wasEssendon?

Matthew (20:00):
There was a wide team.

Dave (20:04):
Who who was Essendon for free league?

Matthew (20:06):
I'm not gonna tell you now. You're gonna use detective
work.

Dave (20:09):
I am I am actually genuinely interested at who was
there from Free League, not justas a as a as a sneaky way of
working it. Who who who told youthat? But it's, yeah. I think
that's a good it's a good move.I think that makes sense.

Matthew (20:24):
Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. And,
also, they the announcement thatthe evolved edition was coming
also said that, would beincluding stuff or they would be
including stuff from Romulus.

Dave (20:38):
Yes. Yes. I saw that. Yeah. That's interesting.

Matthew (20:41):
Which makes me ask. You're you're you're now working
on this to some degree. Did theyask you to do anything from
Romulus? Or, they're gonna stillkeep mum about what you're
doing?

Dave (20:53):
No. My the the stuff that I'm working on is, yeah, it's a
fairly discreet sort of campaignrelated bit of work. So Oh,

Matthew (21:02):
I'm serious. I'm curious.

Dave (21:04):
So, yeah, so interesting. It's good stuff. It's it's it's
quite a small bit of work, whichis fine. But it's, yeah.
Hopefully, it's, you know, theyare they are keen to expand or
what's the or cement maybe thethe the campaign game in Alien.

(21:25):
And I think that's that's, youknow, that's a good idea that,
you know, many people havespoken about Alien being, you
know, great for a cinematic, butstruggling perhaps a little bit
to to land the the campaign. I Idon't entirely agree, having
played in a couple of aliencampaigns either that I've run
or as a player. But I do I doaccept the the comment where you

(21:47):
say that, well, actually, quitea lot of that came campaign
could be run-in in in anothersystem, and it doesn't have to
be alien. But, I mean, you couldsay that about pretty much any
sci fi game, really, I guess.You could run it in another in
another system if you wanted to.

Matthew (22:02):
Yeah. I think, so I had somebody coming to me and say,
when are they gonna make anycampaign material for Alien? To
which I directed him to yourbook, sir.

Dave (22:14):
Thank you. To the the the award winning, the multiple
award winning, Building BetterWorld's campaign book for Alien.

Matthew (22:21):
And I said, look. These box sets, these are cinematic.
These books, these are campaignbooks. And I think it had
totally passed him by. But,again,

Dave (22:31):
actually Did he buy it?

Matthew (22:33):
I I believe he did. Yes. Excellent. And but but,
actually, if we look at those 2campaign books, if we count
Building Better Worlds and the

Dave (22:44):
Colonial Marines.

Matthew (22:45):
Colonial Marines Operations Manual, as as 2
campaign books. The colonial Iknow. I playtested some of
Colonial Marines OperationsManual with you. Yeah. And it
still doesn't work as acampaign, does it?
Because it's it that fit thatone feels to be like a series of
cinematics. Yeah.

Dave (23:06):
Yeah. Yeah. No. I agree I agree with that. Yeah.

Matthew (23:09):
The only body that, that gets through all 7
adventures is the body of themarine corps, not any
of the

Dave (23:16):
major marine. Yeah. So I think I was very keen with
Building Better Worlds to tocreate it as a not just a
campaign that you you play, youknow, there is a campaign in
there, but as a set of rules andtools that will help you run
your own campaign completely. Sothat's

Matthew (23:35):
Which is obviously what I pointed out especially to this
person Yeah. Saying that thiswas the better campaign. And,
also, I pointed him to ourYouTube campaign as well

Dave (23:48):
as a Yeah.

Matthew (23:48):
Cool. How it could go. Yeah. Exactly. So so yeah.
So, anyway, so evolving intobetter supporting campaigns, I
think that's an evolution thatwe can we can all agree would be
a good thing for Aydian.
Yeah.
Rushing on, because we're 23 minutes into this,
Dave. You gotta be gone inanother 50 or so another,

(24:08):
whatever.

Dave (24:09):
40 or so?

Matthew (24:10):
Another 20. A a Ozmagika. Now Ozmagika is not a
game that either you or I haveplayed, but it's always been on
the edge of my peripheralperipheral vision. And they've
got one better than Chaosium, inthat, they have just given an
open license that. So Cool.

(24:31):
It's not a 5050 split. You canpretty much create any Ars
Magica stuff you want. Andactually, there's a few
similarities with Pendragon.It's set in a kind of medieval
Europe, but it's a mythicalmedieval Europe where you got
all these great houses ofmagicians. So I feel there's an
enormous opportunity forlocalization there for people to

(24:55):
be talking about bits of theircountry, you know, their bit of
Europe expanding that, you know,away from the one paragraph that
appeared in the core book aboutwhat, I don't know, Lithuania
was like at the time.
Yeah. And building it intosomething, interesting and novel
and based and seeped in locallegend.

Dave (25:15):
So do you own Ars Magica? Do you own a copy?

Matthew (25:19):
I do not own Ars Magica. No.

Dave (25:20):
Because I've I've never played it. I haven't I haven't
seen it. I haven't read it oranything.

Matthew (25:25):
It's crowdfunding a 5th edition or, a complete edition,
I think, which is almost likemeant to be a final edition. It
pulls together everything that'sbeen really good, edits out some
of the crappy bits. Cool. Andthat's going through
crowdfunding now. It's by AtlasGames, so I know the post is
gonna be horrendously expensive.
So I'm not gonna back back it.

Dave (25:46):
Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew (25:48):
But, maybe when it comes into retail, I'll pick it
up then.

Dave (25:51):
Pick up a copy of it.

Matthew (25:54):
Yeah. And have a look at it then.

Dave (25:55):
Cool.

Matthew (25:58):
And talking of crowdfunding, The Expanse is
doing a second edition.

Dave (26:06):
I I never saw the first edition, really.

Matthew (26:09):
Oh, you
didn't see the first? I did play the first edition. I'm
not a huge fan of Green Ronin'sage system, which underlies it.

Dave (26:21):
It feels like that was quite recent as well, the
Kickstarter for that before.

Matthew (26:27):
Probably only 5 years ago. I can't remember when it
was. How come they're not gonnastick? Now the interesting thing
about that is the first editionwas set firmly in the period of
the TV show. This edition, isset actually in the interregnum

(26:48):
between effectively where the TVshow ended and where TV show
ended and where the subsequentnovels begin.
There's Right. There's quite abig gap of space there. Yeah. So
this feels to be slightly moresandbox y in that you can do
interesting stuff if you're intothat

Dave (27:05):
experience world. You don't don't feel like you've
gotta follow the canon tooclosely. Yeah. Yeah. And that's

Matthew (27:10):
So I think that's a good idea, and it's coming a
little like Alien. It's comingwith miniatures and stuff like
that. So I think miniaturefigures and miniature ships.
That

Dave (27:23):
Yeah. It it seems interesting, isn't it? Is there
is there you know, have have allthese companies suddenly tweaked
that actually doing a bunch ofminiatures is is a is a easy
moneymaker, you know, or becausebecause I certainly remember
talking with with, Nils whenthey did, what's it called? I've

(27:44):
got it up here somewhere. Yeah.
Crusader Kings board game.

Matthew (27:47):
Oh, yes.

Dave (27:48):
And he was decrying the the fact that it came with loads
and loads of miniatures, and itwas a right bloody faff and
didn't want to do things withminiatures ever again. Now they
obviously have even here withthings like Tales From the Luke
board game and other things.But, you know, I wonder if now
maybe, you know, the productioncosts for miniatures, you know,
of a high quality have comeright down. So it makes it worth

(28:13):
the faff doing miniatures to, toget out there. And I guess
people particularly for Alien, Imean and I don't know, you know,
what what the miniatures forExpanse would be like
particularly, how how kind ofbespoke or how, you know, unique
they would be, you know, if youknow the Expanse setting.
Yeah. You know, fig figures forxenomorphs are gonna do well,
aren't they? But, figuresfigures for just some bloke in a

(28:35):
spacesuit might not be quite soexciting.

Matthew (28:39):
Yeah. I mean, I I think the ships will sail well. I
don't know. I think there ispossibly a thing about when
you're doing a Kickstarter,miniatures as stretch goals and
add ons seem to doextraordinarily well.

Dave (28:53):
Or attractive. Yeah.

Matthew (28:54):
At, for example, Sanderson, Peter Peterson? What
am I saying? Sandy Peterson'sGod's War or whatever it's
called, the the sort of CthulhuWars, I think it's called. Yeah.
Which is, I'm gonna say amassive, massive board game, and
so it is, but it's only amassive, massive board game

(29:14):
because the Kickstarter campaignwas designed that way.
And, you know, I've got a friendwho's got, like, a cupboard full
of just Cthulhu Wars, boxes andexpansions all with massive
plastic miniatures in.

Dave (29:27):
Yeah.

Matthew (29:27):
And, you know, when you got a big table and you put them
on that big table, those figureslook pretty impressive. So is
there a thing about thepsychology of a Kickstarter or a
crowdfunding campaign
Yeah.
That just encourages people to go, oh, oh, I'm gonna
get the set. Couldn't get thefull set. I'll put back more and
more and more as more figuresbecome available. Yeah. And it

(29:48):
and it Interesting.
And it does work. Whereas I dothink, you know, it's a faff.
Immediately now we're beholdento probably Chinese
manufacturers getting theminiatures out on time, and then
shipping, getting them to bestcapture on time. Yeah. Bit of a
nightmare.
Bit of a nightmare. Right. Buttalking we're we're we're we're
well into, we're well intocrowdfunding things. I'm gonna

(30:12):
skip over, the fact that PirateBorg, I will mention briefly,
Pirate Borg is kick starting anew a couple of new campaigns,
and, of course, more Pirate Borgif you if you didn't get in the
first book. It's one of myfavorite borgs, so so do look
into that if you're at allinterested in jumping across the

(30:33):
borg train.
Across the borg train? Anyway,but you've got some news you've
got some news, Dave, about acrowdfunding campaign for the
new Conan.

Dave (30:46):
Yes. So that's coming out starting on 15th October, which,
is Wednesday, I believe.Tuesday?

Matthew (30:53):
This coming Wednesday. Yeah. Tuesday. Coming Tuesday.
Because Tuesday.
Yeah.

Dave (30:56):
Said Wednesday because we're normally recording on a
Sunday, but this is Saturday forus to say. 15th October. Yeah.
So Conan the Hyborian age, thenew Conan role playing game by
Monolith, which I have had thepleasure of working a little bit
on. I've written a few scenariosfor that.
So that's coming out onKickstarter in 3 days time. It's

Matthew (31:18):
And that usually that's got figures in the campaign as
well, hasn't it, if I rememberrightly?

Dave (31:22):
Well, I'm not sure. I was just having a quick look at
their their, their their prelaunch page, and I can't see on
there whether it is or it isn't.But it no. Actually, of course,
it it is gonna be it it it isgonna have miniatures, I'm sure,
of it because Yeah. Monmonoliths are basing this on the

(31:42):
board games that they've done,and they want to use Which

Matthew (31:44):
has got miniatures.

Dave (31:45):
Yeah. And they want to use or be able to, you know, the the
the the stuff that comes withthe board games, they want that
to be compatible with the roleplaying game. So there are
battle maps in in the board gamethat they want to be able to use
for the for the role playinggame as well. So, yes, there'll
definitely be figures involved.But, yeah, they've got 4 and a
half 1000 followers at themoment.

(32:06):
It's it's, you know

Matthew (32:07):
No. It's more than we have.

Dave (32:08):
That's it's 10 times more than we had, nearly. Okay. We
can aspire. We can aspire, andI'm not complaining about the
numbers that we had.

Matthew (32:15):
No. No. We we did very well.
And this

Dave (32:18):
is a superbly well.

Matthew (32:19):
A well known AP building on the success of the
board Big company.
Board game.

Dave (32:23):
Company. Yep.

Matthew (32:25):
Yeah. And and where is it? Is it kick starting, or is
it packet kicking, or is it gamejamming,

Dave (32:29):
or No. Kick Kickstarter.

Matthew (32:31):
Oh, Kickstarter. Interesting.

Dave (32:33):
Yeah. So so yeah. So if you're interested in that, going
back that, there are there are 4there are at least 4 superb
scenarios, coming out with it.

Matthew (32:43):
Mhmm.

Dave (32:44):
Right. Because because I wrote 4.

Matthew (32:45):
Because you wrote those 4.

Dave (32:48):
And they seem to be quite pleased with them. I've seen
some of the artwork to go withthem, and it's really good. I
mean, they've got some fabulousart with this game. So, it's
it's very nice seeing the thingsthat I imagined, you know,
coming out in a piece of artthat somebody else has added
their own creativity to, andthey look they look brilliant.

(33:09):
There's there's one inparticular where, no spoilers,
but there's 2 kind of demonthings.
And, they yeah. It's it's afabulous, fabulous picture. So,
yeah, Conan, the hyborean age,15th October. You can click on
the the, like, the, the prelaunch page so you get notified

(33:30):
if that's what you want. And,yeah, go and back in.
I think it might be quite good.

Matthew (33:37):
Cool. Cool. And that's really brought our world of
gaming news to an end, except Ijust wanna briefly say I had a
fabulous time with Essen. Workedvery, very hard. I think I've
only just recovered now a weeklater.

Dave (33:52):
It's a long con, isn't it, that one? I mean, it's it's an
it's a Ford, any convention,isn't it? I mean

Matthew (33:56):
It's 4 days. So

Dave (33:57):
Plus traveling and everything.

Matthew (33:59):
All day Wednesday, getting straight into setting up
after a hellish journey on thetrains. But then everybody comes
in, and it was sold out everyday. Mhmm. So we're looking at
100 of thousands of punters,coming through. It's a big old
hall.
I have to say, I find it reallyhard to walk around the halls

(34:22):
without just sort of despairingat capitalism and thinking, do
we even need so much stuff? Imean, it's really hard to think,
oh, I wanna buy this game,because, you know, to begin
with, there's more than youwanna buy, and then and then
there's just too much, and youdon't wanna buy anything. It's
my problem with it. And, youknow, it's you know, I've been,

(34:44):
what, my 3rd my 3rd lesson, Ithink, now. And and, yeah, I
think that feeling gets cementedevery time I go.
So

Dave (34:52):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's I mean, I haven't been to Essen,
and I think, you know, it's of ascale bigger than anything I've
been to before. So, you know,the biggest thing I've been to
is GK Games Expo.

Matthew (35:03):
And I

Dave (35:04):
think the scale of Essen is significantly greater than
that. And that's Yeah. You know,that's, you know, that's that's,
yeah, you can kinda get lost inthe, you know, like you say, the
the opportunity to spend moneyand, like you say, the the just
the the massive you know, thetsunami of stuff that is there
to, to spend your money on ifyou wanted to.

Matthew (35:27):
We did see some fans, though. So, Liolin came and we
we had lunch. He came for one ofmy lunch breaks and we had lunch
and we talked about, we talkedabout tales of the old west, of
course. That was a Saturday, sothe campaign had finished by
then. And, he he pointed out andthis is an interesting thing

(35:49):
that I I now want to find someof these books and read.
In the late 19th century, therewere, a number of western novels
published by a German writer,which obviously have a very
German slant on the west. And hehe said he imagined that's how
he'd be playing his campaignwhen he started. I thought, oh,

(36:10):
I might wanna read thosecontemporaneous novels based on
that German experience. I don'tknow how realistic or pulpy they
are, but, I'd be interested tosee if we can find out

Dave (36:20):
Or whether you can find find them in English. Yeah.

Matthew (36:23):
Yeah. Or whether you can even find them in English.
Good point. Yeah. And then also,I want a special shout out to
Alex Bueno, who I mentioned onthat little video we recorded
when we were, out there for theending the campaign.
But the Alex is from Brazil, andhe's not only a backer, but had
come to Essen and then come tothe stand to say hi. Nice. So,

(36:48):
Alex, you've worked very hardcoming to say hello, and we
haven't got any patrons.Actually, just touching back on
an earlier topic, we haven't gotany new patrons to to thank.
But, Alex, thanks thanks forcoming halfway around the world
to say hi to Virdesen.
I'm sure that's not the onlything the only reason you came
around the world, but that'slovely to meet Yeah. A Brazilian
backer.

Dave (37:08):
And and if it was, he'd have been sorely disappointed as
well. But, you know

Matthew (37:14):
Yeah. They, we didn't get a chance. He did he didn't
come when it was a break timefor me. You you know, you work
pretty hard from 9 till, Youdid. 9 till 7 at that.

Dave (37:23):
It is all all consuming, these things, Ali. Yeah. Even
when you get a little bit oftime off, it's like you're still
kind of yeah. It's it'sdifficult to stop.

Matthew (37:34):
And we were round the back of, or rather round the
back of our stand because ourstand was massive, Dave, and our
stand at UK Games Expo is likelyto be equally massive. But
around the back of our standwas, 2 little mice. And so I
recorded a lovely, lovelyinterview with them. But, sadly,

(38:00):
even though I've taken myexpensive mics and I spent time
setting them all up, I didn'tactually record through those
mics. So the only sound thatthat that I've got is what my
phone recorded.
Don't ask me where I screwed up.I, to be honest, don't quite
know, but I definitely screwedup on that one. So that is now a

(38:20):
Kickstarter not a Kickstarterexclusive. Sorry. That is now a
Patreon exclusive, thatinterview, but I'm we must get
them back online to interviewthem before their, their new,
back a kick campaign starts.
We've got a month to do it,Dave, but they were lovely
people to talk to. Reallyinteresting. Very insightful. If

(38:41):
you if you like white noise,come and listen to our
interview. I've made it justabout audible.
If you're a patron, come andlisten to the interview. It's
free to all patrons. But I willwe will get a better recording
done, in in time for On

Dave (38:57):
the show in due course. Yeah.

Matthew (38:58):
The show in the next month. Yep. Cool. Cool. Which I
think probably brings us to ourmoment of reflection.
Oh, no. It doesn't. Old WestNews.

Dave (39:08):
Old West News. Which is well, it just it is a bit of a
moment of reflection becauseit's now, how long since the
kick started to finish? Justover a week. Yeah. 9 9 or 10
days.
And it's it's with, you knowwell, part of our thinking about
possibly calling this episodeanticlimax is that, you know,
that 6 weeks of the the run-into the kickstarter and then the

(39:31):
kickstarter itself was, allconsuming, you know, situation
of being online all the time andkeeping to keep keep keeping
checking how it was doing. Andthen as soon as it finished,
didn't need to do that anymore.And so suddenly, it's like, you
know, we've gotta wait a coupleof weeks until the Kickstarter

(39:51):
processes go through theirmotions and and get the money to
us. So, yeah, it was suddenly itwas all on, and then suddenly
there was nothing. So it was, itwas a bit it's a bit weird, a
bit unusual.
But as you say, a good momentfor reflection. You know, we've
said it before, but, you know,we're blown away by how well we

(40:12):
did and how much support we had.So, again, another huge thank
you to anybody and everybodywho's who's, who supported us,
either backed us or or or had alook and, you know, might might
buy in future. So thank you allso much for that. But there's,
yeah, there's still plenty todo.
So we haven't been sitting onour laurels. I've been working
through the text with one onelast time to to get it in the

(40:34):
right place to go off to theeditors. I've got one chapter
left to do, which, needs alittle bit of, a little bit of
modification now to include ourmagnificent 5. Yeah. But that's
that's easy enough.
That'll be done over the nextfew days. The magnificent 5, we
speak to them, so we might haveto roll their details in a bit

(40:54):
later on, but I think, you know,we can persuade Neil that adding
a few little bits will be fine.The campaign tales are coming
together. The some All OurFabulous authors, 1 or 2 of them
have begged for a a a slightextension on the deadline, which
I've which I've said yes, whichis just another week.

Matthew (41:12):
Right. So come May, when we haven't delivered, we'll
look back at this moment andsay, see, extension on your
deadline. You screwed through usall out of whack.

Dave (41:21):
No. I think as long as long as they come through on
that I've only given them anextra week. That's all they
asked for. So that's finebecause they've got convention
they're preparing for right now.Yeah.
But we've got 10 of them back, Ithink, now. So there's a couple
more came in yesterday. We'veapproved all the ones that we'd
we've read so far. They'relooking really good. It's great
to have all these differentvoices and different ideas.

(41:43):
So that's going really well.

Matthew (41:48):
So, yeah, just you mentioned, a a couple of things
there that I thought I mightchip in on. So we have got,
obviously, the magnificent 5. Ithink I'm gonna communicate with
them this day, actually. I'llsend them a message via
Kickstarter. So if you're one ofthe magnificent 5, you'll you'll

(42:08):
see our opening questionsbasically about the sort of
character you, thinking of.
Well, not necessarily you. Youor your loved one, with their
permission, of course, we'rethinking of portraying. So,
we'll send out those questions.We're not looking for portraits
yet, or not looking for photosfrom you yet for for the

(42:28):
portraits to be made from. Justjust the idea of which
characters so we can match youup possibly with some of the
characters, Dave, that you'vealready got an idea of of who
they are with the campaign.
Or Yeah. You know, we might haveto make some new ones to to fit
into the campaign. SoAbsolutely. Where the work is
there. The other thing oh, yes.

(42:51):
Our sensitivity reader is hardat work on Yeah. The quite a few
chapters that we were waitinguntil the end of the kick or
waiting till the end of thekickstarter before sending them
off. So, you know, again, theymay come back with feedback and,
you know, that might require abit of change, to one or more of

(43:15):
the chapters. But we candefinitely be sending our
editor, some of the chaptersstraight away, the mechanics
chapters after all. Yeah.
We should quite we should

Dave (43:25):
I mean, we should be getting the report back from
them within the next week or so,shouldn't we? So, as long

Matthew (43:31):
as it Yeah. This week, in fact.

Dave (43:33):
Yeah. So as long as there's nothing too, you know,
too too too big that we need toto do a massive rewrite on. And
I'm I'm sincerely hoping Yeah.

Matthew (43:42):
If that report was liked for the last lot

Dave (43:44):
I fully expect we'll get some tweaks, and there might be
a few bits of bugs we wannachange. But, hopefully, because
of all the effort and the andthe time we put into this, you
know, this content, I would Iwould very much hope that those
those changes will be minor. So,that would be quite easy to to
amend, I'm hoping. But,obviously, we'll wait to see
what they have to say. Beinteresting to see their report

(44:06):
when it comes.

Matthew (44:07):
Cool. Cool. Cool. Also, I, well, actually, I'm waiting
for a finalized design documentfrom the dice manufacturer.
Okay.
Okay. Sadly, the end of ourKickstarter has joined in with
the with the beginning of theirKickstarter. So they're they're

(44:30):
otherwise distracted with withtheir own dice designs at the
moment. But, hopefully, we'llget back to that one. Now one
thing I have previously, saidbefore that I think I need to
apologize, and, I've misledpeople on their dice.
I I went with this particularcompany because I thought they
were manufacturing in the UK.They're not actually they come

(44:53):
from China. I mean, the dice
is too
hot people. So, that's a little extra wrinkle.

Dave (45:01):
In the marketplace. They're they're a UK based
company, but they then sourcetheir products from from
overseas?

Matthew (45:06):
Yeah. A little bit like, our patron Neil does at
Pludding Gaming.

Dave (45:11):
Right. Yeah.

Matthew (45:12):
So I'm feeling a bit bad actually about not
purchasing him. I mean, I waslooking for a locally sourced,
but, now I'm ending up, youknow, I I think they're kind of
a very similar business model towhat Paladin does. But, Anyway,
so so, yeah, there's that,happening. We're we're steaming

(45:33):
ahead with the art. Our fay no.
I'm not I was gonna say ourfavorite artist, but, that's not
fair to say. We've got we'vetried out a couple of artists
who approached us during theKickstarter campaign, and
they've produced some lovelybits of work. Yeah. But our
original artist, Thomas, is alsoback from his video game
contract. You will be seeing hisart adorning the, the front of a

(45:56):
video game shortly.
Not Mhmm. That we he can tell uswhich game it is yet, but it's a
AAA game, so it's a big one.It's nice that we've got a cover
from the same artist now. I'mfeeling.

Dave (46:09):
Yeah. That is excellent. And, you know, our our our cover
is really good. There was onething I wanted to say. So I I I
spoke to, Andrew from oh, Idon't remember the name now.
At Tabletop Scotland about he heruns he runs a little, like
like, newspaper magazine thatcomes out monthly. And, he he

(46:30):
did a lovely interview. We had agreat chat. And we we gave him
some artwork to go with hispublication. And he put the
cover up on the front cover of

Matthew (46:39):
Oh, yes. On Never Mind the Dice Rolls.

Dave (46:41):
Never Mind the Dice Rolls. Tightness Yeah.

Matthew (46:43):
In the show notes.

Dave (46:45):
And it looked now I have to say, our our cover artwork on
on his magazine looks lovely. Itlooks really, really cool. So I
think we've we've done verywell, and Thomas has done a
great job with us for that thatcover artwork, which I think is
yeah. I'm very, very pleasedwith that.

Matthew (47:01):
Yeah. Of course. He's only got a front cover. Yes.

Dave (47:05):
Our our

Matthew (47:05):
our hardback cover will be wrapped around, so you're not
getting the whole artwork there.You can't buy Nevermind the does
those rolls and think, well,I've got the best artwork now.
You've only got half of it.

Dave (47:15):
Yeah. Well, not even that because there's obviously all
the artwork that comes in thebook as well.

Matthew (47:19):
So
Oh, and, of course, there's loads and loads of
artwork that comes in the book.We've still got a what to do. I
I've I've still gotta, rejig theart now based on based on our
stretch goals and stuff likethat, but we've got at least 5,
archetype pictures to do. We'vegot still 5 chapter spreads to

(47:43):
do, and, and 5 magnificent 7portraits to do. A lot of fights
in here.
Yeah. Plus maybe some incidentalartwork. But, those are those
are my biggest priorities ofgetting done. Yeah. Yeah.
But we are getting more back. Wegot some lovely prospectus back,
didn't we, from a

Dave (48:03):
Yeah. They looked really good. Yeah. And and it's really
helpful having, you know, the ofthe extra couple of artists
because we can obviously spreadthem. You Now we've got more
pride in our in our artworkdepartment now.
So, hopefully, this will thiswill allow us to get it all done
by the the deadline we setourselves. Is that it?

Matthew (48:22):
So, yeah, that's it. Have we anything else we meant
to be mentioning about that? Idon't think so necessarily. No.
No.
No. No. Yeah. Watch this space.Also, we want to say join our
Facebook group.

Dave (48:37):
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Matthew (48:39):
And some people were asked about a Discord. I'm not
sure whether we should set up anew Discord, especially for fans
of the group, or whether weshould join, Yeah. 0 Worlds and
maybe talk to them about havinga channel. But, you know, so if
if if you if you want a Discord,contact us on our socials and

(49:00):
demand 1, and we'll we'll thinkabout it. Otherwise, though,
join our Facebook group.

Dave (49:06):
Yeah.

Matthew (49:07):
Right. Cool. And now, time to reflect once more. Time
to reflect this time onCoriolis, Dave.

Dave (49:14):
Yeah. And we've talked we've talked so much about
things like Tales of the OldWest and, and and other things
in recent months. And, you know,I was I was thinking back to
where, you know, to where we allstarted and actually how much
Coriolis content we we, youknow, we used to do. And I
think, you know, it will it'sit's quite nice in due course

(49:35):
perhaps to try and and and findanother vein of of Coriolis
stuff we could possibly do andtalk about. But, in the
meantime, it it just got methinking a little bit about what
what Coriolis has meant, to meand to us.
And so I just thought I'dsplurge out some thoughts and,
yeah, let you have a listen tothem. Anyone who's been
listening to us with even halfan ear over the years will know

(49:58):
how much Coriolis The ThirdHorizon has meant to both me and
Matthew, And the enormousinfluence that game has had on
our lives. We have a lot tothank it for. So with it being a
few years on and with Coriolisthe great dark arriving on
people's doorstep soon, Ithought I'd take a self
indulgent look at Coriolis andwhat it has meant to me. And

(50:21):
make an assessment of how itstands up to games that have
come out more recently.
Coriolis came out in 2016. Kickstarting with 481 backers and
making £32,240 against a targetof 3,678. It presents a unique
science fiction setting that Icertainly hadn't seen before and

(50:43):
was different from the standardtraveler, 23100, Star Wars, and
Star Trek games I played. Evendifferent to the Firefly and
Serenity RPGs, although the feeland theme was in many ways the
same. It was also Free League'sfirst venture into horror
gaming, And I wonder if theirexperience with Coriolis helped

(51:04):
them in their pitch for andtheir development of Alien.
The use of darkness points candefinitely help the GM create a
powerful horror vibe. Theepisode I played when we were
awoken in portal space and myuse of darkness points to drive
the actions of the cursed shipin the spectral corsair campaign
are two examples that leap tomind. The ability of darkness

(51:27):
points to deliver that kind ofgame. Now I'm not saying they
work as well as stress in Aliendoes, not for a minute. But as
an early attempt for a horrorvibe, it was a good try.
And, of course, darkness pointswere not just about horror, but
about karma and the impact ofinconvenience in the gods once
too often. But I wonder ifwithout Coriolis, we might not

(51:50):
have got alien and stresseither. But Coriolis is
definitely unique In itssetting, in its use of black
ink, in what it was trying toachieve. The setting created
opportunities for role playingthat are usually missed by other
games. Making religiousobservance an important, but
more important fun aspect of thegame.

(52:13):
Bringing a firefly vibe thatreally worked and worked better
than the games specificallydesigned to bring out that vibe.
Bringing out the horror of thedarkness between the stars
without going over the top init. And offering a cultural
setting that was fresh andengaging. One of Coriolis's
strength is the depth of thesetting and the actors within

(52:34):
it. Nils from Free League saidthat Coriolis was too big, had
too much content.
I think he said this not justfrom a creative perspective, but
from a production point of viewtoo. I get the production
concerns, but from a creativeviewpoint I disagree. The depth
and breadth of the game is whatmakes Coriolis so great. Making

(52:57):
everything a little uncertain.Making enemies on the surface
actually be potential allies andvice versa.
Giving the GM such a breadth ofopportunity to make the game
what they want. I know somepeople cite this as a weakness.
There's too much stuff to choosefrom. They don't know where to
start and so on. Valid comments,but only to a point.

(53:19):
If you don't know where tostart, just start at the
beginning. If the breadth seemstoo much, focus on something you
like and go from there. Ifyou're worried you'll get
something wrong, don't be. It'syour campaign, your game. You
can't get anything wrong in yourgame.
What you say goes. It's a toughask to compare it to other games

(53:41):
as there's a risk of comparingapples and pears. What's good
and right for one game might notapply in the same way as
another. But I think some recentofferings have suffered from
being a little too concise. TheWalking Dead, as much as I love
it and have really enjoyedplaying it, could have benefited
from a little more depth in myopinion.

(54:02):
Others have struggled for beingpigeonholed into one mode of
play. This assumption applies toalien in some circles, I think.
Although, I obviously disagree.Others struggle under the weight
of expectation of being deep andcomplex story lines with many
twists and turns. For example,Dune RPG.
Coriolis can do all these thingsin one game, and I think this is

(54:24):
its crowning achievement andwhat makes it an enduring game
that I hope will be out in theshops and opened up on people's
tables for many years to come.There are a couple of things
that have disappointed me alittle bit. I had hoped that
your spaceship in Coriolis wouldeffectively be like the arc in
Mutant Year 0 and be a reallyintrinsic part of your

(54:45):
character's life and experience.It didn't really work out that
way. And while I still love theway the ships work and how you
can design the ship you want, itwas still just an inert
background rather than a livingevolving thing that would drive
your stories, rather than justbeing the backdrop to them.
It seems Free League has takenthis on board with the great

(55:07):
dark and created vessels andlocations in that game that will
do what the ships in Coriolisdidn't. I wonder if I might be
able to simply port those newrules into a Coriolis campaign.
The other thing was thecampaign. While there are many
great aspects to it and I've hada lot of fun playing it, there
were 3 things I didn't like. Itis very railroady.

(55:31):
Now this could be anoccupational hazard for a big
campaign, but I'm sure there'smore that could have been done
to give the players greateragency or at least the illusion
of greater agency. The strategicchoices over the design effort
for the Coriolis line. A bigcampaign sucks up a lot of time
and resources and needs to bereally, really good to make it
worthwhile. So I just wonderwhat wonderful opportunities we

(55:55):
missed by that choice. And 3rd,and spoilers, the core of the
story being war with the firstand second horizons seems so
obvious and frankly a bit boringwhen there is so much you can do
with the third horizon alone.
For me, Coriolis is still one ofthe best games I've ever had my

(56:16):
hands on for the breadth of whatit offers a playing group and
the skill in which it achieveswhat it set out to do. I've just
started another campaign. Andeven though I've been too busy,
with what, I'll never know, toreally dive into it, I can't
wait to explore more of the 3rdhorizon. And, obviously, without
Coriolis, I wouldn't be here nowtalking to you. I wouldn't have

(56:40):
been offered the chance to workon Alien and been given the
opportunities that came afterthat that have culminated in our
Kickstarter for Tales of the OldWest doing better than Coriolis
did back in the day.
I can truly say that the iconshave blessed my adventures. So

Matthew (57:01):
you've, you've touched a you've touched a rather sore
nerve there, mate, because whenyou know, if you remember, back
in the days of the verybeginning of the pandemic and
lockdown, I said, oh, maybe weshould play that new Coriolis
campaign we've got and, ditchthe old campaign I was running

(57:23):
and new characters and do it allonline. And we did that, and
that that first bit of thecampaign was very very kind of
noirish, I always thought. AndYes. So Yeah. You know, I said,
I think we could just have youand Tony because Andy didn't

(57:44):
wanna join in, on an onlinecampaign.
Yeah. You and Tony could be likea a couple of detectives, and we
would play it that way. And sureenough, that's how we played it
until the end, when I realizedthat a couple of detectives are
gonna get slaughtered in the, inthe climactic scene. Yeah. So

(58:06):
then we recruited a bunch of ourpatrons who'd been listening and
said, you know, do you wannajoin in as kinda guest stars and
come in for the final climacticthing?
And that was great. And then wedid the second book much the
same way. In fact, I thought,you know, interestingly, that
second book can feel a bitrailroady. I think, in fact, you

(58:26):
said it was a bit railroady atone point. But, where am I going
with this?
The the second book also, Ithink, feels a bit more
railroading that you're goingback and forth across the
horizon following clues. And oneof the things I did kind of, you

(58:46):
know, for convenience ofeverybody, is I actually sent
different characters todifferent parts of the
adventure. So you weren't allhopefully, you didn't feel quite
as railroaded as you would havedone when, you know, if I'd
said, oh, now you've gotta go toDaburran and do this this
adventure. And that finished ina, shall we say, cataclysmic
way. No spoilers.

(59:07):
Mhmm.
And but then we were stuck waiting for the 3rd book,
and so there was a bit of apause. Plus, I was no longer
unemployed, so, I had a busy jobto do. I still do have that busy
job. And by God, it's busy.Mhmm.
I'm wearing I've been wearing 3hats this last week in my in my
job, but still, you know, it'spaying me quite well, so I can't

(59:28):
complain. And but, you know, onething that hasn't happened is
that 3rd book has come out, andI said, right, we'll start doing
that at some point. And 2 yearslater on, probably, almost 2
years at least, we haven'tstarted. And part of me, I
think, has slightly lostenthusiasm because of what you

(59:51):
talk about with with with withyour spoiler there, which you
shouldn't know because becauseyou're you're you're a player,
mate.

Dave (01:00:05):
Yeah. Shouldn't have worked that out by yet. But my
my character doesn't know thatnecessarily.

Matthew (01:00:09):
Yeah. So I

Dave (01:00:11):
mean, you know, you know, I I I mean, I've expressed my my
disappointment in in thecampaign, but I do say I did
say, and I I stand by the factthat I have had a great time
playing it. It's been a lot offun. It's it's been great having
the guest players coming in, andsome of the best moments have
been with our guest players.It's been absolutely great. And

(01:00:31):
I you know, as a as a as a kindof principle for going forward
for stuff that we might doonline, you know, ourselves and
having Yeah.
A rotating cast, I think that'sa great really great way of
doing it. And

Matthew (01:00:46):
Of course, the beauty of guest players is they're
expendable. Or Nicholas is veryexpendable, and that we can kill
him as often as we like. AndYeah. He keeps coming back for
more. No.
That's what Nicolas said. Thatwas just the dice talking, not
me.

Dave (01:00:59):
So so yeah. So, you know, I I, you know, I wanted to to to
express kind of, you know, wartsand all because otherwise, you
know, I could just gush aboutCoriolis for 10 minutes and,

Matthew (01:01:12):
you know,

Dave (01:01:13):
everyone would say, oh, yeah. We get it, Dave. You like
Coriolis. You know? Shut up.
So I think there were yeah. As Isaid, there were things in the
in the campaign which whichwhich I felt, you know, were
slightly disappointing for mepersonally, but that hadn't
stopped me having great funplaying it.

Matthew (01:01:31):
Yeah. No. That's true. And yeah.

Dave (01:01:38):
Yeah. So, yes, it it comes back to the comes back to the
question then of of do we youknow, is it something that you
want to finish as a GM at somepoint in the future where we
come back to it and and gothrough the 3rd book? I mean, I
kind of feel that I would liketo. Yeah. You know, even with my
comments there, I've I'veenjoyed the campaign so much,
and I've enjoyed playing witheverybody that that it would be

(01:02:02):
nice to see it through to theend.
But again, obviously, you're theGM and, you know, that's, you
know, it's it's it's acommitment, particularly when
you've got a busy day job.

Matthew (01:02:14):
It is. It is. And my busy day job was meant to go
down to 4 days a week, but thatdidn't happen. Yeah. Because of
the state we're in.
But maybe it will at some pointin the new year, and then we can
we can do that again.

Dave (01:02:27):
Yeah. You

Matthew (01:02:29):
know, because we're not really busy with our second job
of putting out our Kickstarter.

Dave (01:02:34):
Well, yeah. There is that. Yeah. Yeah. I would think so,
yeah, I mean, I'm I'm kind ofwearing about 3 or 4 hats at the
moment with all the differentbits of work I've got, but my
work doesn't pay me very well.
Yeah. But but it's fine. It'sfine.

Matthew (01:02:52):
It's the work you want you to do, Dave.

Dave (01:02:55):
It is. It is. It is.

Matthew (01:02:56):
It's your ambition. I'm just just reminding you of that,
and then

Dave (01:03:00):
I can be

Matthew (01:03:00):
a writer, you said. I

Dave (01:03:01):
just need to make his pay a bit better, frankly.

Matthew (01:03:03):
But, you know,

Dave (01:03:04):
so do you.

Matthew (01:03:05):
So Said every writer in the world.

Dave (01:03:08):
Well, yes. Exactly. Yeah.

Matthew (01:03:10):
3 or 4 superstars.

Dave (01:03:12):
Yeah. That's very true. That's very true. Yeah. So,
Coronas.
Yeah. I mean, I still love it,and I'm I'm so looking forward
to getting into into my newcampaign when, when I've got a
bit more time.

Matthew (01:03:27):
And, of course, one of the things actually we could
consider doing is, you know,Coriolis now has a free license
to it. And Yes. Even if we don'twanna play in the great dark,
even if we think there's more ofthe horizon to explore, we can
make that happen. Because, Dave,you and I have got a publishing
company now with a successfulKickstarter under our belts.

Dave (01:03:46):
So We do. It would be

Matthew (01:03:48):
interesting to

Dave (01:03:48):
to test the water Yeah. To see how much how much how much,
you know, how much demand is outthere.

Matthew (01:03:59):
Yeah.

Dave (01:04:00):
Yeah. Might be worth having a look at.

Matthew (01:04:03):
Right. Let's get this Cool. Western game out of the
way first, shall we?

Dave (01:04:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, first, one's yeah. One thing at a time.
Yeah.
But yeah.

Matthew (01:04:12):
Okay. I think we might be done here for this episode.

Dave (01:04:16):
Yes. I think so. Perfectly timed, unlike us.

Matthew (01:04:21):
So you've got to get off to your darts tournament.
I've got to do a bunch of choresand stuff, and it's goodbye from
me.

Dave (01:04:31):
And it's goodbye from him, and may the icons bless your
adventures. You have beenlistening to the effect podcast.
Presented by Fiction Suit andthe RPG Gods. Music stars on a
black sea. Used with permissionof freely publishing.

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