I'm a man you don't meet every day

Episode Transcript
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Dave (00:39):
Hello, and welcome to episode 251 of Effect, a man you
don't meet every day. I'm Dave.

Matthew (00:49):
And I'm Matthew. And, we have got a we've got a lot to
talk about today and not muchtime. So, we're gonna crack on.
And one of the things actually Imeant to check before, before
starting this episode is did wehave any new patrons?

Dave (01:04):
But I

Matthew (01:04):
haven't done that yet.

Dave (01:05):
You've only just

Matthew (01:06):
By the time You've

Dave (01:06):
only just remembered that, haven't you? Yeah. Literally,
this is this moment. Yeah.

Matthew (01:11):
This very moment.

Dave (01:12):
I can tell.

Matthew (01:14):
But what we have got that we planned for is we've
got, plenty to talk about in theworld of gaming, including, new
stuff that's out, an interestingnew trend in year zero and a
wider trend in sci fi. We've gotsome pretty exciting news in the
Old West.

Dave (01:35):
And we have Good news.

Matthew (01:36):
Got a discussion. We're not having a prerecorded segment
today. Partly because we haven'tgot time to, record it and well,
write it and record it and editit. And also partly because we
had a request from one of ourpatrons. See, if you're one of
our patrons, you get to requestrequest stuff on the show.
And this is from our, patron,Bruce, who asks about creating

(01:59):
interesting player charactersfor and NPCs for one shots. So
we thought we could talk aboutthat for a bit. I think, you and
I, Dave, both have some ideas.And, obviously, mine are right,
and yours are wrong.

Dave (02:13):
It's well, it's very early on a Sunday, so my mojo for
fighting back at the momentisn't quite there. I haven't
finished finished my first cupof tea yet. But just you wait.
When I wake when I wake up, youwon't be getting away with
comments like that, Jones.

Matthew (02:28):
Okay. And you did say that I should explain, what the
title A Man You Don't MeetEveryday comes from. It comes
from, a song by the Pogues,specifically sung by Kato
Jordan, their, their firstbassist. And, she would sing I

(02:49):
think it's called, I think theactual song, it's called Amanda
Don't Meet Every Day. Yeah.
And

Dave (02:55):
That would that would be apt seeing that's where you took
the title.

Matthew (02:58):
And and I was thinking, you know, one shot NPCs, you
don't meet them every day. Youmeet them once, and then they're
gone. So so that's why it'scalled that. Does is that
explanation enough, Dave?

Dave (03:10):
Well, I I thought you were gonna give the explanation that
you gave me just before youstarted recording, but you

Matthew (03:14):
Oh, you wanted me to sing it, did you?

Dave (03:16):
No. No. No. No. But no.
No. That's fine. We don't needto inform you.

Matthew (03:19):
Read the lyrics out.

Dave (03:21):
If you if you want to.

Matthew (03:23):
I can't remember the the whole lyrics,

Dave (03:25):
but it

Matthew (03:25):
goes something like This

Dave (03:26):
is podcast gold.

Matthew (03:28):
Listen. My name is Jock Stewart. I'm a canny gun man and
a roving young fellow I've been,so be easy and free. When you're
drinking with me, I'm a man youdon't meet every day.

Dave (03:40):
Well done.

Matthew (03:41):
I'm sure there's some other lyrics in there

Dave (03:42):
as well.

Matthew (03:42):
I don't believe they are. Yeah. She that was one of
my favorite song. I'm I'm a hugePogues fan.

Dave (03:48):
You are.

Matthew (03:48):
So I try and sneak a Pogues reference into every
episode. Now go back over 250episodes and see if you can spot
the one I have purposely left inevery single episode.

Dave (03:58):
I don't think you've left any in any episodes other than
this one.

Matthew (04:02):
I'm sure I've left a few in some, but not not

Dave (04:05):
one in each of 250. I should be I should be dropping a
Blackadder reference in everyepisode somehow as well.
Shouldn't I be

Matthew (04:11):
Oh, no. No. No. I mean, if I promise not

Dave (04:13):
to do the pogue, you do.

Matthew (04:14):
You drop bloody Blackadder references. Well,
thank you. 09:00 newsreferences.

Dave (04:19):
That's true.

Matthew (04:19):
Nine times out of 10.

Dave (04:20):
Yeah. That is true. That is true. That's true. Back to
the white then.
Good. The world the world'smaking sense this morning.

Matthew (04:26):
So, quickly, you talk about that some more while I
quickly look for patrons.

Dave (04:30):
Talk about what some more. Okay. Well, shall I start
talking about the world ofgaming then?

Matthew (04:36):
Good idea.

Dave (04:36):
Let's do that. Okay. So a couple of things popped up in my
inbox this week that I thoughtwere worth mentioning. Although
I I hasten to add, I probablydon't know a great deal about
them. So one is the announcementof the new Simbaroon campaign
book, Agrella City of EternalEuphoria.

(04:58):
Now this I knew this took me bysurprise slightly, although it
probably absolutely shouldn'tbecause Matthias had been,

Matthew (05:06):
Talking about it? I was about to say, mate.
Foreshadowing. What do you meanyou know nothing about it

Dave (05:10):
when Foreshadowing this, for someone. But I I was kind of
thinking that this was, I thinkthis is a campaign book as as
far as I can tell, rather thanwhat I thought he was talking
about, which is quite the, youknow, a large sweeping
reorganization or refocusing ofCymbrem in a in a different
area.

Matthew (05:28):
No. No. That comes later. Yeah. Now this was his
we've said goodbye to the tothe, Davakar Spoilers.
Except we haven't quite becausehere's another city.

Dave (05:37):
Spoilers. Yeah. But, yeah, this this seems to be about a
city that is, is is, a festivalcity. Or at the very least, in
the in the campaign, there is afestival season drawing quote.
It takes place during thefestival season.
And quite a few things seem tohappen. They've given their

(05:59):
they've they've got adventuresentitled intrigue,
assassination, and chaos.Interesting. I quite like the
feel that that's giving. Yeah.
But I think this yeah. Thiscreates Agrella as a location
for you to play. It gives youlots of information about, who
lives there, where you can go toget stuff or where you can stay,

(06:21):
all that kind of thing. Plus,obviously, it brings you at
least three adventures. So, weare part of a campaign, by the
look of it, called the outrageof betrayed brethren.
Now one of our, good friends andother patrons, Frank, Raldanash
on the, on the social media, Isaw yesterday had done has done

(06:44):
a little video talking all aboutit, but I didn't get the time to
watch it. So, as as much as Idon't wanna subcontract affect
podcast content to somebody elsewho's already done it for their
own purposes, if you wanted amore a deeper insight into that,
you might wanna go and findRaldan Ash's, a video on it.
Because I suspect it'll be goodbecause all the ones I've seen

(07:06):
before have been excellent. AndAnd also,

Matthew (07:10):
of course, go back to, episode, which is not numbered
but is titled, it's beginning tofeel a lot like Simba Room. So
I'm guessing it was beforeChristmas, and that's when
Matthias talked about it. Yeah.There was quite a lot of
information, more than you'veremembered, Dave. At least at
this time in the morning.
You might remember a bit more byme.

Dave (07:29):
I think I've done quite well, actually, considering. But
it looks lovely. Yeah. As asyou'd expect, the artwork for
Simba Room is always superb. Thecover artwork is absolutely
great.
So, yeah, it's, it's up forpreorder. You will get a PDF
shortly after purchase, theysay, if, once you buy it. But,
that's an alpha PDF. But, yeah.Looks good.

(07:54):
Go and go and buy it if you'reinterested in some more simper
room.

Matthew (07:59):
Cool. Excellent. And alien stuff you noticed as well?

Dave (08:06):
Yes. So it was, just a bit of a shout out, actually. So,
there's an artist called JohnMulaney, who has done I'm not
quite sure exactly what he'sdone, but

Matthew (08:16):
Does he all do the the sort of tech drawings in his

Dave (08:19):
Yeah. Yeah. So he he's, he's done a lot of the the the
drawings for Alien Evolved basedon, Romulus and the

Matthew (08:30):
ships and

Dave (08:30):
the and the weapons and stuff in Romulus. And so Free
League were were sort ofshowcasing some of that. I mean,
it looks lovely again. I mean,you know, it it's it's obviously
a very different style of art tothat of Martin Gripple or Gustav
Eklund. But, it's, clean.
It looks cool. It goes reallywell with the vibe, I think,
that they're going for for, forAlien involved in terms of their

(08:52):
layout and, and graphic design.And, yeah, I did I I don't
really have anything to sayabout it other than to say it
looks lovely. And if you'reinterested, go and have a look,
And there's some fabulousartwork there.

Matthew (09:03):
And where where is it that people go to to have a
look?

Dave (09:06):
Well, I found there was there was an email that I got
through Right. Right. Newsletterfrom them. I think if you go on
to I just looked up alienevolved, John Mulaney, and that
doesn't specifically bring youto a showcase of him, but some
of his artwork is on that sitewhen you come to it.

Matthew (09:23):
I can tell you what. We'll put a link in the show
notes to make it a bit easierfor everybody. Yeah. Now it's
interesting we're talking aboutAlien Evolved, because you told
me in your little secret way youhave, that there is a bit of a
change to the zero system inAlien Evolved, which I'd
actually you told it to me whenI just noticed it was in

(09:45):
Electric State, and it slightlyblew my mind

Dave (09:48):
Mhmm.

Matthew (09:48):
In Electric State when I first saw it. Because for the
first time ever in ElectricState, in year zero, you rolled
your stats. Mhmm. And youmentioned that you rolled your
stats in Alien as well. How muchdo you know about that?

Dave (10:05):
Well, I will do a caveat about Alien because, I haven't
seen the finalized book, so it'snot impossible that they would
have changed their mind.

Matthew (10:14):
Take that out again.

Dave (10:15):
But but it was there, and I used it for the life path
generator that I wrote for them,for Alien four.

Matthew (10:20):
Well, there you go. You see, I guess I guess there's
every chance.

Dave (10:24):
Yeah.

Matthew (10:26):
That it's gonna stay in there.

Dave (10:27):
So the thinking behind it, I don't know it. I you know,
I've had no insight into thethinking behind it. I'm I'm not
I'm not surprised. And actually,I like it because Mhmm. I think
the the obviously, the obviousrisk with doing that is that you
get someone who has four unluckyroles and is starts out
significantly less powerful thansomebody who gets four lucky

(10:49):
roles when you are basicallydefining a number between two
and four on the whole.

Matthew (10:55):
Oh, two and four only in Alien, is it?

Dave (10:57):
Well, so you well, in the life path, I can't I think I
have to look maybe try and tryand look it up.

Matthew (11:08):
Well, I mean, maybe maybe you shouldn't be giving
too much away about anunpublished thing. I'm happy to
talk about Electric State andstuff.

Dave (11:14):
It's fine. You definitely can get a score of five. And you
can you can definitely get ascore of five for more than one
attribute.

Matthew (11:23):
Stat. Yeah.

Dave (11:25):
So I I think the base role was one d three plus one, but
then I think you get modifiersto that. And certainly Oh,

Matthew (11:32):
I see.

Dave (11:33):
And certainly in the life path that I wrote, assuming they
haven't changed it very much,and they they, you know, they
seem to accept it, you know,without question, which is
great. Mhmm. In there, you haveyour base scores and then the
life path gives you, dependingon your roles, some more points.

Matthew (11:52):
Give may give you a point or two.

Dave (11:53):
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So I mean, I I a bit like you. When
I first saw it, TrailingEvolved, I thought, oh, okay.
That's a bit of a departure. ButI think largely because I've
been conditioned over the yearsthat stats don't change. And

Matthew (12:14):
Yeah.

Dave (12:14):
They are, you know, you you have a level playing field
for every character at thebeginning of of your character's
story. But then I thought aboutit a bit. And actually, I I I I
like the idea of of random, statgeneration. I think there's a
lot to be said for it. Andthere's a lot to be said
actually for playing a characterwho might be a, you know, a bit

(12:37):
unlucky and have less thanaverage scores because then that
kinda adds to your character'sbackstory a little bit.
You know? You're a bit of aweakling and you're not very
clever, but still you're gonnapersist and come through.
Because I mean, in the end ofthe day,

Matthew (12:50):
Or in Alien, you're gonna die.

Dave (12:53):
Yeah. But you might die. But you

Matthew (12:54):
might be the first one to die.

Dave (12:55):
Or or you might outlive the the tall, intelligent, you
know, you know, jock or the, youknow, the the the the prom queen
kind of thing. And, actually,everyone enjoys it when that
kind of person who's often alittle bit up their own but
backside gets killed early, andthen the the plucky little, you

(13:16):
know, short, ugly Wheatley who'snot very clever comes through.
Then, you know, it it it givesyou options for different
stories, which I which I likewhich I like.

Matthew (13:26):
Yeah. Yeah. So in electric state, you roll a d
six, not a d three plus one oranything. You roll a d six, you
ignore or you reroll ones. Soyou can't have a stat of one,
but you can have potentiallyfour sixes if you roll really
well.
Yeah. Which, that was the otherthing that caught me up.

(13:46):
Because, again, as you say,generally, you know, you you end
up with stats kind of betweentwo and four, maybe a five here
and there. In Forbidden Lands,you can often get a six. We're
not talking about secretandroids and alien there.
They'll have different rulesagain.

Dave (14:01):
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Matthew (14:02):
In fact, I I hope secret androids don't have
randomly rolled generation,character stats because one sort
of feels they should bemanufactured. So they just have
the best stats. Anyway,

Dave (14:14):
I think it depends what they are manufactured for. Yeah.
You know, if, you know, they ifyou you manufacture them for
different purposes, so that waytheir stats might be different.

Matthew (14:24):
Yeah. Yeah. That may be true. Where else I go with this?
So, yeah, up to six.
But that's kind of importantfor, electric state because
there are no skills in electricstate.

Dave (14:35):
Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew (14:36):
So for many of your roles, you're only rolling your
stat plus your gear unlessyou've got a talent, which
talents are kind of taking theplace of skills in that game.
And it may be, want to go back.I haven't looked at it yet, but
it may actually want to go backand have a look at the PDFs
we've got of, The Great Dark,Coriolis The Great Dark, to see
whether the same is true there.And if you have Yeah. If you

(15:00):
have 15 or fewer points intotal, you get a bonus talent

Dave (15:06):
Yes.

Matthew (15:07):
As a starting character. So there's a little
bit of balancing up that goeson.

Dave (15:11):
Yeah. I saw that. I I'm a bit torn, actually. Because
What? Because I because

Matthew (15:17):
that ruins your I like playing really crap characters.

Dave (15:19):
Yeah. And and it it raises the question of just because
you're a bit weaker or not quiteso, you know, intellectually
agile as somebody else, whyshould you why do you start your
life with more talents? Itdoesn't narratively make a lot
of sense to me. And, actually,it's really interesting point.
So, on on kind of like like, youknow, this this might come into

(15:45):
our discussion a bit later on,but perhaps not so much.
But taking Tales of the Odd Westfor example, creating a
character in the life path withmultiple livings. So I I did
that with, Brodie Anaheim. He'she had two live two extra
livings, I think. Obviously,took a, you know, a
consequential hit on his stats,on his attributes, because you

(16:08):
lose one per extra living, foradditional living. And over
time, I look at him and he's gotlike his skills his his stats
are three, four, three, three, Ithink.
Something like that. And Ithink, well, they're a bit shit.
Now it doesn't really matterbecause he's got so many, you
know, he's lived such a longtime. He's had a lot of Mhmm.

(16:29):
Experiences.
I've managed to increase hisskills and he's got a lot of
talents. But still it just makesmakes me have a thing. Well, why
actually, if I was sort of minmaxing a little bit, you'd never
create a character who is olderthan 20. Because why not keep
your stats nice and high andthen you over time

Matthew (16:48):
And then learn your skills.

Dave (16:49):
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Because I you know, I basically
denied myself a couple of dicethroughout Anaheim's life, which
is fine. I don't care in theslightest.
It's just an observation I had.Yeah.

Matthew (17:00):
In that. But it all may also go that, you know, that's
why he's a lily livid cowardthat kills people behind their
backs and, doesn't stand upever.

Dave (17:08):
He's he's not he's not face

Matthew (17:10):
his dad.

Dave (17:10):
He's not Lily Livid at all.

Matthew (17:13):
Yeah. I don't know. The way the way you go about killing
some of the people in that

Dave (17:17):
I've I've I've I've I've faced down people more than
once. I've been shot in the gutsand nearly killed for it. So I I
do do a little bit of murderingin the background and quietly,

Matthew (17:27):
I think. You know? But

Dave (17:30):
I mean, who doesn't? It's the Wild West. But no. But
anyway, I think I think it's aninteresting point about
attributes though. In that, in agame where your attribute range
is quite limited, it can makequite a big difference to your
character's mechanical abilityto do stuff.
But still, I I'm not sure Iwould have gone down the line of

(17:51):
Electric State and said, oh, goon, man. Give him a free talent
just to make it happen. Alright.Personally.

Matthew (17:56):
Yeah. I think we should look again at, Coriolis The
Great Dark and see see what'sgoing on there because that's
another game that doesn't haveskills in it and only has
talents. So we should check thatone out. Anyway, and that's it.

Dave (18:11):
It's an interesting just to stay on that point for a
moment. It's an interesting,design what's the word I'm gonna
call it, tangent that they'vegone down there. And maybe
that's something

Matthew (18:20):
that would

Dave (18:21):
be worth a discussion in greater detail.

Matthew (18:23):
Maybe a proper discussion with a bit of an
essay on it.

Dave (18:25):
You know, skill you know, skills or no skills. You know,
you know, what is that that isthe question.

Matthew (18:35):
Yeah. Okay. That may be the question for our next
episode, Dave. We should move onbecause we have plenty more
science fiction to discuss. Sothe thing that caught our eye,
earlier on this week was theannouncement of a terraforming
Mars crowdfunding.
We'll put a link in the shownotes. It's not yet going.

Dave (18:56):
On back of it, isn't it? So,

Matthew (18:58):
Yeah. It's on back of it. Yeah. And, you may be aware,
dear listener, of a popular,although slightly divisive board
game called Reforming Mars.

Dave (19:10):
It's great. I'm in I'm in the camp that loves it. Are you
in the camp that loves it?

Matthew (19:14):
Are you in the camp that loves it? And I've got
another mate who loves it aswell. I have attempted to play
it once, but tried to do so atthe game cafe. And kind of in
the time we had available, weset it up, and we played maybe
two turns, and then it was timeto go. So, it's one of the, you
know, it's one of those longsetups and and, you know, you

(19:38):
you wanna devote some time to itYeah.
Basically. But, yeah, conceptwas lovely. We discussed, didn't
we, on our Discord, which is aexclusive benefit for patrons.
And while we're talking aboutpatrons, I will just say we
haven't had any new patrons. Butif you were to become a patron,
then a paying patron that is notone of those free free patrons

(19:59):
that that just look and get tosee our comments.
But if you're one of those,paying patrons, you get
exclusive access to our Discord,which is the nicest place on the
Internet. Anyway, in that, wediscussed, do we really need a,
Terraforming Mars,

Dave (20:15):
Role playing game.

Matthew (20:17):
Role playing game. Yeah. And I dangled a thread. I
have no idea whether this is theplan in the actual published
game. But I dangled the threadthat it might be a generational
game, Dave.
And I know you like generationalgames.

Dave (20:29):
I do. And I think the game, description does describe
itself as a generational game.Cool. So Cool.

Matthew (20:36):
I hadn't read that far, obviously.

Dave (20:37):
How how that works, I I don't know. Because yeah.
Because I mean, I I love theboard game. I I saw that and I
thought, how how does thattranslate into a role playing
game that's got kind of, youknow, legs and durability? And
and I guess if you look at it, Imean, the the the board game,
you know, you play a particularcorporation.

(20:58):
So there's a number ofcorporations you can obviously
have. They're all competing to,you know, to terraform Mars and
and, you know, developtechnologies and all the rest of
it. So I get there's your thereI guess there is your core your
your core kind of,

Matthew (21:15):
Conflict.

Dave (21:16):
Conflict. Thank you. Too early in on a Sunday for me
still. But also, dealing withMars itself and surviving. And
so you've got that core conflictas well.
Yeah. So, I mean, it looksgreat. It's it's obviously, it
comes with a a strong supportbase because of the because of

(21:38):
the board game. I haven't backedit. Well, it hasn't started yet.
I'm I'm not probably not goingto back it. It feels very much,

Matthew (21:50):
I

Dave (21:50):
don't know, it feels very much like it's it's kind of
sitting on the, you know, sci ficorporate, you know, corporate
shenanigans kind of line. Andthere's a lot of games that do
that already. Yeah. There's, youknow, where's the new angle to
to make that more interestingother than the fact that it's

(22:12):
gonna look lovely from theartwork from the board game and
everyone goes, oh, I love theboard game. So I do wonder,
yeah, I do wonder what's gonnabe in there that will make it
worth worth buying.
The generational idea is a goodone, but again, how and how how

(22:33):
do you do that with playercharacters? Because presumably
for a terraforming Mars game,the generational effect is going
to be centuries to seedifferences and changes to Mhmm.
To the planet. Does that meanyou then fly through characters
kind of very quickly, which, youknow, potentially could be an
option if you're deliberatelyplaying a game that's I just had

(22:55):
a thought here. This could be away of doing foundation as well.
You you you could deliberatelycreate a kind of family line.
Yeah. And your your playercharacters so you'd play one
player character for maybe, Idon't know, four or five
scenarios. And then you leap totheir great granddaughter or

(23:17):
their granddaughter or somethingand play them

Matthew (23:19):
But you you don't you don't leap a single generation.
You go three or four.

Dave (23:23):
Only kids leap a single generation, but then you're but
but then you're gonna progressvery slowly.

Matthew (23:28):
Yeah.

Dave (23:28):
Whereas if you're gonna try and tell the story of
terraforming of Mars, you'regonna need probably a thousand
years if you're trying to stayvaguely close to any kind of
technology. And a thousand yearsis probably way too short as
well, anyway.

Matthew (23:43):
Well, there we go. I mean, I already proposed to you
that it should be a Venus yearzero, generational game of
colonizing Venus. So, you addthat into the mix there.

Dave (23:53):
Yeah. So but so actually think

Matthew (23:55):
about that. Next year, boys and girls.

Dave (23:58):
I quite like that that generational idea, actually,
where you are you are explicitat that front that each
character is only gonna beplayed for four or five
scenarios, but you are playingthe thread of their ancestry,
their family line, whilst youare carrying the thread of the
terraforming Mars along. So

Matthew (24:16):
Yeah. I mean, there's there's a lot of science fiction
that does that, doesn't there?And it's, yeah, Dune for a
start. You know, there's theBenny Gezeret putting Paul
Muad'Dib's, well, notspecifically him, but the plan
of, the person that he becomesYeah. And the plan thousands of
years ago, screwing it up a bit.
I mean, the the geneticmanipulation could be part of

(24:38):
your, you know, part of yourgoals as a player character is
that, you know, obviously,you're you're you're gonna have
a line, but you want your lineto be better. Like like we all
want to improve as we go througha game.

Dave (24:50):
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Matthew (24:53):
Talk you witch, say, in electric state, you can improve
your stats as well, which isanother novelty for, in play,
which is another novelty foryear zero. But you could do it
you could improve your stats by,you know, manipulating the gene
pool as as you go on. All sortsof a world of fun there. So an
interesting thing actually.

Dave (25:13):
So maybe yeah. So maybe that that, terraforming Mars is
perhaps a bit more interestingthan I than I'd originally
thought. Yes. Sorry. Go ahead.

Matthew (25:21):
Well, I was gonna say, now when I first looked at it,
and the illustration shows guysin spacesuits, and that made me
think of a certain theme thatwe're gonna talk about in a
moment of, working class sci fi.But I actually am now wondering,
even as we're talking in agenerational game, is the idea

(25:42):
that you start off as one of theunderlings, but end up maybe
controlling one of thecorporations or one of the big
families in a future, Mars,which I'm not sure is totally
realistic if that is the intent.I'm pretty sure when Elon Musk
colonizes Mars, everybody elseis gonna be his serfs

(26:03):
effectively, because he willhave effectively paid for them
to go to Mars, and they'll bepaying off that indenture for
generations. I don't thinkanybody's gonna improve
themselves generally, except bydoing favors for Elon and his
rich cronies. Yeah.

Dave (26:20):
Well and I thought it was it was interesting because I I I
was pretty sure there was aninternational treaty that said
things like the moon and Marsare, are communal. You can no no
one country can lay claim to anypart of those those planetary
bodies. And then you've gotTrump talking about planting the
stars and stripes on Mars. So

Matthew (26:41):
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, you know, Trump thinks he can
take care of so as well. Sowe're just gonna have it, as he
said.

Dave (26:48):
Well, yeah. Let's see. Let's see how that works.

Matthew (26:50):
Let's see how that works. Very commune. Yeah. Yeah.
So yeah.
No. A little bit of politicsthere.

Dave (26:56):
Sorry. Sorry. We don't we don't do don't do politics. No.
But it was also on the Discorddiscussion.
One of one of our patrons, Ithink I think it was our my
mate, Andy, mentioned the, KimStanley Robinson books. Oh,
yeah. A red Mars.

Matthew (27:11):
Green Mars, blue Mars,

Dave (27:12):
all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. As as a as a basis
for what, you know, what couldbe a campaign for terraforming
Mars. And,

Matthew (27:20):
and potentially For mankind as well, actually.

Dave (27:24):
Okay. I haven't seen that yet. I keep seeing adverts for
it. So I'm I'm gonna go andwatch it because it looks good.

Matthew (27:28):
You must watch for mankind.

Dave (27:30):
Yeah. I love it. It looks very good. As an as an aside, I
I I realized we've still gotParamount Plus at the moment
because we got it free for sixmonths with with Sky Sports or
or Sky Movies or something.

Matthew (27:43):
Oh, excellent. Yeah.

Dave (27:45):
So we watched a couple of episodes of the second season of
Frasier, of the new the newFrasier last night. And and
actually, the second episode wasprobably the best one of the
entire second run that I've seenas far.

Matthew (27:58):
What happens in that one?

Dave (27:59):
It's it's the one where, there's there's all confusion
about, like, like a romance fromOlivia, who's his boss at the
university.

Matthew (28:09):
Oh, yes.

Dave (28:10):
And whether and whether it's, whether Alan is being
sacked or not. And Yeah. I Ijust felt it really funny. I
thought it was very good. Verywell done.

Matthew (28:18):
You'll know it's canceled now though, do you?

Dave (28:20):
Yeah. I know. I'm not surprised because it's not that
good really.

Matthew (28:25):
K.

Dave (28:25):
It's fine. You know, I enjoyed the first season. It
was, it had it's it had somereally good moments. But on the
whole, it's it's it's not reallyit hasn't caught the same kind
of vibe or the same feel as theoriginal Frasier had. And I
think if if any if anything ithad to do, it had to feel like
Frasier.

Matthew (28:44):
Well, that brings us to the end of our Frasier fan cast.

Dave (28:48):
Sorry. Anyway, but, but yes

Matthew (28:51):
We can do one, Dave. We can do a Frasier fan guy.

Dave (28:53):
But but also, I I noticed that on there, there are
obviously a lot of other onParamount plus, there's a lot of
things I still wanna watch. So Istill haven't seen Beyond about
episode four of Strange NewWorlds

Matthew (29:03):
for this series. Hell.

Dave (29:05):
I know. Put it in there before you're subscription.
They've got eighteen eightythree is on there. You've got,
Yellowstone is on there. SoWell,

Matthew (29:13):
Yellowstone is also on Netflix now, but nineteen twenty
three is the sequel to eighteeneighty three Yeah. And also
bridges the two. Stars HarrisonFord Yes.

Dave (29:23):
I saw that. Yeah.

Matthew (29:24):
And Helen Lewin, and is great. Right. Surprisingly
great. Okay. Except for thereally annoying thing that the
season one finished not asseason one should finish.
It finished halfway through afull season, and they've just
made us wait for season two.

Dave (29:40):
It's shit, isn't it? So I I just really pissed me off.
Yeah. I just watched the secondseason of the Squid Game.

Matthew (29:47):
And Alright. Yeah.

Dave (29:47):
It's great. Absolutely brilliant. Really enjoying it. I
did wonder how they would dosomething a bit different from
the first one. And it's got alittle twist.
I mean, it's basically the sameas the first one because they're
going through games. But thereis a twist in there, which is
quite cool. And I'm reallyenjoying it. And it got me sort
of okay. I'll get into the lastepisode.
This is gonna be great. And theydid exactly that. Basically, the
story is halfway through andthey stopped. And that's not a

(30:09):
season. Don't call it a fuckingseason if you're gonna do that.
Like, it really pisses me off.Like like 2020 1923 pisses you
off. I

Matthew (30:17):
I just

Dave (30:18):
just don't bloody do it. If you're gonna do it, at least
call it a mid season break,which is shit as well. I mean,
just do the whole fucking story.Why don't you? But if you're
going to do it that way, atleast call it a mid season
break, so everybody knows thestory doesn't end there.
Anyway

Matthew (30:34):
Well, watch eighteen eighty three, which I love. Yes.
Definitely. And Star Trek BraveNew Worlds. And then, I think
the second season of nineteentwenty three is arriving in
February, and therefore, you canwatch it altogether then.

Dave (30:50):
Mhmm.

Matthew (30:50):
Cool. Then. Okay. But anyway Okay. That's our TV
podcast finished.

Dave (30:54):
That's our that's our our paid promotion for Paramount
plus, out of the way.

Matthew (30:59):
Yeah. Actually, I was I was thinking though, I I will
watch, I'll I'll keep it goingbecause I've got that. But
actually, I'm going to lastnight, I was looking at it and
thinking there's not much else Iwant to watch in it. Why am I
paying every month? So, I willdrop drop that after 2023, I
think.
Yeah. And then I'll, you know,when Spring New World starts up

(31:21):
again, I'll pay for a monththen. Anyway, moving on. Moving
on. Where are where where thehell are we?
Yeah.

Dave (31:28):
Working class sci fi. That's where I'm

Matthew (31:29):
heading to us. Sci fi. Yeah. Yeah. So another thing
that we totally missed, but it'sfrom somebody I I know on the
Internet, Dave Kizzia.
He's got a game out calledHeavens Open Door, which looks a
lot like things like Death inSpace and, you mentioned it
already. Jonathan Hickman say,what's it called? Well, got two

(31:53):
games. Pressure

Dave (31:56):
and oh, what's it

Matthew (31:58):
called? Got it in my head too. That other game.

Dave (32:01):
Those Dark Places.

Matthew (32:03):
Those Dark Places. Yeah. And I'm just wondering
whether what alien role playinggames should be credited for is
starting a whole new wave ofworking class sci fi.

Dave (32:18):
Yes. Well, it it does seem to be everywhere now, doesn't
it?

Matthew (32:21):
Yeah.

Dave (32:22):
Which which, you know, may or may not be a good thing. I
guess, how many it is a bit of aniche within a niche, isn't it?
But I mean, like like John JohnHicks, you know, he calls his
industrial sci fi, but again,they're all focused on, like,
the little guy, you know, who'swho's working against the
oppression of everybody else andhas got he's got, you know, got

(32:45):
no prospects in life other thanto keep working, really. And
then it's about the stories thatthat that affect them, which is
great. I mean, it's good.
It's I guess it it it riffs offAlien. And because Alien is such
a beloved movie, it's nosurprise that that kind of
science fiction storytelling issomething that people want to

(33:07):
want to experience.

Matthew (33:09):
And you mentioned Alien Romulus. And what I really like
alien about Alien Romulus, overpretty much every other sequel
to the original movie, is isthere that working class aspect
of the first third of that when,you know, they're all scum.
Yeah. Who can't don't qualify toget off world yet because

Dave (33:31):
Yeah.

Matthew (33:31):
Even though they've worked their hours, they've now
got a new new set of hours towork before they get an off
world pass and stuff like that.I really like that. And the
problem with a lot, you know,with the with the other sequels
is because Ellen Ripley hadbecome special by this time.

Dave (33:47):
Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew (33:48):
You know, immediately, even though, technically, she's
still working class at the atthe beginning of Aliens. But,
you know, she's a special personand they want her on the
mission. So it starts to becomeabout some sort of desire type
character, which immediatelyisn't very working class. And it

(34:08):
it I like starting with a bunchof newbies again, just just
trying to make their way in theworld. That that was my favorite
aspect of Romulus, actually.

Dave (34:18):
Yeah. Yeah. No. I likewise, I agree. I thought the
whole, recreation of colony lifewas was really good in Romulus.
And also, they, you know, theythey the the the the producers
of all of the alien movies orall the alien movies beyond the
originals until maybe Romulus,have fallen into the trap of of

(34:39):
kind of completely destroyingthe backstory of Ripley by, like
you say, making her special. Youknow, because she then becomes,
you know, an important characterin loads of different stuff,
which totally destroys the factthat, as you said, she's kind of
just a a nobody doing a shittyjob.

Matthew (34:59):
In the wrong place at the wrong time.

Dave (35:01):
Yeah. Who then who then, you know, manages to do some
extraordinary stuff to survivein the face of terrible odds.
And, you know, they were talkingabout something where they were
gonna do, I don't know if it'sAlien Earth thing or something
else, but where they weresaying, oh, yeah. We'll go back
and tell Ripley's, like,backstory. Well, no.
Don't don't do that because ifyou adhere to the whole point of

(35:24):
her character in Alien, herbackstory is shit and boring.

Matthew (35:27):
She's nobody special.

Dave (35:29):
She's doing nothing. Exactly. She's not somebody
special who's had lots ofadventures already. Because, you
know, otherwise, why is she thenjust acting as a, like a third
officer on a shitty little deepspace tug where she gets paid
fuck all for, you know, riskingyour life for six months or
however long the journey takes?So it's, yeah.
That that that that irritates mea bit, that kind of

Matthew (35:51):
Yeah.

Dave (35:52):
Trend to try and milk more money out of a character. But in
the process, you basicallydestroy that character, the
point of that character in thefirst place.

Matthew (36:02):
Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I'd I'd I'd just think it's
noticing noticing working classsci fi. It's been interesting.
Should we talk about workingclass cowboys now?

Dave (36:14):
Yeah. No. I was just gonna say I was just gonna say, is
there is there a a plug we cando for Heaven's Open Door? I've
just looked it up, but I can seethat it's it's finished.

Matthew (36:22):
I'll put a link in the show notes. I can't plug it all
that much because I haven'theard much about it. Right. But
it it yeah. Well, it it it it itwas crowdfunded a while ago, and
so I think it's coming out soon.

Dave (36:35):
Yeah. Yeah. It says May is its target fulfillment date.
Yeah.

Matthew (36:42):
Everybody wants to fulfill in May.

Dave (36:43):
Talking of May

Matthew (36:44):
I think we should try and go a bit earlier if we can.
Yeah. Shall we talk about Talesof the Old West in Old West
News?

Dave (36:53):
Yes. Old West News. So we we've had a busy couple of
weeks, haven't we? Very much so.

Matthew (36:57):
Mhmm. You have been very busy.

Dave (36:59):
You, I think, probably more than me in that we've been
scrabbling to get the the PDFsfinished, getting into the right
place to get them off to theprinters. And we last weekend,
you you told me, yes. We've doneit. We've got it. I've sent it
to the printers.
We all got very excited only forthe printers to come back and
say, you gotta change lots ofstuff. Yes. So I think

Matthew (37:22):
And, this

Dave (37:23):
turned out to

Matthew (37:23):
be lovely Stefan is is off working elsewhere now. So
he, thankfully took time to sendme and and actually sending me
the files because, of course,they are huge. So that took some
time. He had to clear his hishis whole Google Drive. I had to
get him on so

Dave (37:40):
I could call

Matthew (37:41):
him off his Google Drive and stuff like that.
Anyway, I got the files and thenso then I made the alterations
and then I sent them back againAnd no, they're still wrong.
Partly because nothing Irealized sorry?

Dave (37:54):
Oh, I I just went, oh, no. I hadn't realized that your your
your revised

Matthew (37:58):
They're not still wrong there. So the last revision so I
yeah. My my first revisionsneeded revising. My second
revisions, I finished lastnight. No.
Not last night. Sunday. Yeah. Onon Friday night. And sent them
off again.
And I'm now waiting with batedbreath to see whether I've got
it all right. It's complicatedpreparing stuff for print.

Dave (38:20):
You know how to show a lady a good time, don't you? You
were you were doing yourrevisions for your pod for your
for your PDF.

Matthew (38:26):
For Valentine's Day. Yes. Well, I've got, Sue a
lovely book to read, so she wassat there reading the book.

Dave (38:34):
You got her a book and packed her in from the corner.
Go read your book, love. I'vegot I've got work to do. Yeah.
She's long suffering, your goodwife.
I do feel sorry for her.

Matthew (38:46):
So anyway, hopefully hopefully that's done. And
hopefully, they can start, youknow, Well, first of all,
they'll create a digital proofof everything, and then they'll
start printing. I think we'relooking at printing towards the
end of what did I say? To I Ithink we may get our proof
copies towards the March, which

Dave (39:08):
would be fabulous.

Matthew (39:11):
So No.

Dave (39:12):
That's cool. So what? Another four to six weeks to get
a hold of that is when that'sall working. That's cool.

Matthew (39:17):
And that's partly because, oh, and then so that's
partly because the paper isn'tarriving until the March or
until, actually the end of thismonth. But they they need to
prep it and stuff like that. Theother the other issue is they
they haven't got the cloth colorwe chose with our patrons Mhmm.
For the deluxe book. So we'regonna have to go with a slightly

(39:39):
different color.
But,

Dave (39:41):
Still looks good. Still looks very good.

Matthew (39:42):
Still looks good. Yeah.

Dave (39:43):
It looks lovely. Cool. No. So that's good. So that that
kind of feels like we're onreasonable, reasonable schedule
because once

Matthew (39:52):
We are definitely on target for May, assuming
something dreadful doesn'thappen with the shipping.

Dave (39:57):
Yeah. Yes. Which obviously is is is is possible. But so,
hand in hand with that, I'vebeen we've both been working
with pledge manager. We aregetting that ready.
I've been working on, the, youknow, kind of the the
calculations for for postage andall of that, which which is just

(40:19):
about done. The one the one areathat we've got kind of a big
question mark over it, ofcourse, is The US. Sorry to all
our US backers. This might be alittle bit more complicated.
Through no reason no no fault ofours or anybody involved in
this, it's all down to the, thenew US, government's decisions

(40:39):
or or not around tariffs andthat kind of thing.
So we're needing to check thatinto account, whilst we're doing
this. I luckily, the way we shipto The US is is is is very good.
It's very efficient. So it'sactually cheaper than it might
otherwise have been.

Matthew (40:57):
But the

Dave (40:57):
tariffs might bring an extra cost, which we have
absolutely no control over, I'mafraid. So sorry about that, but
we'll do what we can. So interms of pledge manager, we've
we could probably get that goingin the next couple of weeks.
Yeah. So we're getting therewith that, which is all really
good.
Yeah. Then once we get thebooks, we just have to get them

(41:19):
shipped out to everybody. So,

Matthew (41:21):
Yeah. In fact, I have got a link that I haven't shared
yet, which would take a takepeople to a holding page on
Pledge Manager. But I I didn'twant to share it until I felt we
were a bit closer to our actualgo live bit. But I might
actually share that quite soonjust so many people.

Dave (41:36):
Yeah. I mean, I've got a meeting with them on Tuesday
that you've set up for me, whichis cool, where we can thrash out
some of this and, and and get abetter sense of what date we
might wanna go live with thePlatoon Manager. Yeah. But it's
not gonna be that that muchlonger now. So, watch your
emails, but we'll obviouslyannounce it, on all the socials
and on here when we when we whenwe're gonna do that.

Matthew (41:58):
Cool.

Dave (41:58):
But yeah. So lots of progress. Lots of progress.

Matthew (42:04):
Yes. Lots of progress on there. Now, we have almost
only what what is the time? Iwas gonna say ten minutes. We
might stretch it into quarter ofan hour, twenty minutes to talk
about our topic, NPCs for oneoffs and competitive play.

Dave (42:22):
And player characters. Creating

Matthew (42:23):
interesting player characters.

Dave (42:24):
Creating interesting player characters and NPCs for
one shots. So the, sorry. Go onthere, mate.

Matthew (42:30):
I was gonna say, thanks to Bruce for suggesting this
topic on our Discord. I'vetalked enough about our Discord
and how patrons can do that.Yeah. But but I'd started, and
then then you interrupted me.And then you let me talk.
So now you have to listen to mesaying what you were gonna say.

Dave (42:47):
That's fine. That that was fine. I was just saying that
that was what I was gonna say.

Matthew (42:52):
Excellent. Right. So should I say everything else you
were gonna say as well aboutactually creating characters?

Dave (42:58):
Go on then. You why don't you kick us off then, Matt? Go
on.

Matthew (43:01):
Okay. I'll tell you. I will kick you off. I'm gonna
pass over to you because,actually, you've been doing this
recently. I'm interested foryour thoughts.
So my first overriding thoughtfor creating let's start off
with NPCs, actually. Let's startwith your non player characters,
particularly for one offs. Don'twaste too much time doing it is

(43:21):
my big thought. Because thesearen't characters that your
players are going to get to knowover time. And even then,
actually, I often think thateven in a campaign, you start
off with a very slight MPC, andthen the players will, through
their interactions with thatcharacter, build the character

(43:43):
into a fully fledged person.
Yeah. You might have to make afew decisions on the fly, but
but, you know, if you if you,you know, create somebody, oh,
this is gonna be somebody thatthe NPCs really or the players
really get on with this personand then he's gonna betray them.
Blah de blah de blah. You canbet that they'll walk into the
tavern, they'll ignore your, youknow, fabulous MPC, and they'll

(44:06):
go and talk to some barmaid thatyou haven't, you know, written
any up at all. And you've gottado some on the fly turning her
into the into the person thatyou wanted them to interact
with.
So don't waste too much time ismy first step. And what I like
are things well, my favoriteguideline for NPCs actually is

(44:27):
in in published materials isdeath in space. I think people
have heard me rave on about howefficient Death in Space is in
its use of words, and that goesdouble for MPCs and stuff like
that. They're really good. Theytalk about each character and

(44:49):
they have that character'spriorities and that character's
wants.
So that's it. You know, asentence pretty much for each of
those. And and Bob's yourauntie's live in love. Now you
did something interesting. Andit's interesting that Preece had
asked about this because inTales of the Old West again,
this isn't strictly for oneshot.

(45:11):
This is for our campaign sectionof Tales of the Old West. We
offered, a magnificent sevenbackers. Actually, only a
magnificent four or five took usout. But anyway, so some people
paid to and we've got theirportraits in in Tales of the Old
West. And we've created well,with with them, we've created a

(45:33):
character.
And you did an interesting thinga bit like Death in Space for
those, and and other non playercharacters. Do you want to say
explain a bit more about that?

Dave (45:43):
Yeah. So for for for each of the towns that we that we
talk about, the the fictionaltowns, we've given a, a a kind
of a a potted history of thepeople who live there. And so
there's, I don't know, maybeten, twelve NPCs, maybe even a
couple more than that for one ortwo of the towns who we talk
about. And we we give a coupleof paragraphs about that

(46:06):
character. But, actually, youknow, it's inspired a little bit
by Death in Space.
We focus those very much ontheir wants, their needs, their
fears, and other things, maybetheir hatreds, that kind of
stuff. And so we flag up thosewords in the in their text. So
if you want if you just wannaknow what that character's needs

(46:28):
are, you can see it straightaway, and decide what it is. And
I think so I'm gonna divergefrom your comments slightly
there because I think this kindof approach works brilliantly
for campaign play, worksbrilliantly when a a GM has got
the opportunity to to look atthe character, take what is a

(46:48):
very, very, simple framework interms of those wants and needs
and and and and the like, andthen build that character
themselves. I think for a oneshot or for a, like, let's say,
convention, adventure, you'dprobably wanna give your your GM
a little bit more information sothey don't need to work it out

(47:09):
for themselves on the day.
Or if you're running it foryourself, you get a pretty much
good sense of what you wanttheir character to do anyway. So
some of that stuff you might noteven need to write down.

Matthew (47:19):
When I said that, I'd say right things and you'd be
wrong. So that's fine. Carry on.

Dave (47:25):
So, so I think it's it's interesting for I mean, you
know, what what's what's thepoint of a one shot or, you
know, a convention game? Andit's it's to bring new people
into the game. And in usually avery short space of time, give
them an experience that's gonnaexcite them, gonna be gonna be
really enjoyable, and leave themhave them leaving the table

(47:45):
going, but that was great. I'mreally glad I spent two hours or
four hours doing that game. Andand I think there's there's in
that, you don't have much timefor for sort of developing your
non player characters.
So they they, you know, theythey need to be, I guess, quite
quickly recognizable forwhatever role you want them to
fulfill. In, for for Tales ofthe Old West, we did the the

(48:11):
Campfire Tales. Or as as Irecall at the time, the actual
play shorts where I wrote forthree or four scenarios that we
used at conventions, that weused online. And and in those,
you know, the the the non playercharacters, you had a couple who
were who were going to doublecross some of the players

(48:32):
potentially. Mhmm.

Matthew (48:34):
Or, you

Dave (48:35):
know, they they had other agendas that that would only
become apparent if the playersdid certain things. But, those
characters are still quite,well, briefly drawn. So you
didn't need to go into too muchdetail. But you knew what their
motivation was. You knew whatthey were going to do.
You knew what they, you know,what they wanted to achieve. And

(48:57):
in knowing that, you could thenquite easily run the scenario. I
mean, if the players went offoff the rails a bit, which is
fine, you had a better idea ofhow to then take that character
and have them have what theythen want to do interact with
the players further on down theplot. So I think, you know, for
for convention play, you know,you don't need to go into too

(49:19):
much detail. And and I thinksometimes that, kind of keyword
or or or key point approachperhaps doesn't work quite so
well for convention play as itmight do for campaign play.

Matthew (49:30):
Well, I think I think you're right on one or two bits,
particularly. I still thinkbrevity is the source of a good
campaign character, but I dothink there are other things. We
talked about wants and needs andstuff like that. But one of the
things particularly in, in a oneshot, which kind of happens
naturally in the course of acampaign is you in a campaign,

(49:52):
you build up a community, theworld becomes real and
three-dimensional around theplayer characters. You've got to
in a in a one shot, they've gotto fall into that world and it
already feels real andthree-dimensional.
So some of the things I thinkyou do need to add to an MPC
character are connections withother characters.

Dave (50:14):
Yeah.

Matthew (50:14):
And I'd say there's there's two types of
connections. There's aconnection, obviously, you might
well say, well, you know, thischaracter is going to be a clue
that leads them to thischaracter. That's a connection,
isn't it? And that's fine.That's that's the sort of
connection.
But I think, particularly forwhat you've just said about when
somebody goes a bit left field,as a player, and you want to

(50:34):
encourage that open worldfeeling even in a one shot to a
degree.

Dave (50:38):
Absolutely. Yeah.

Matthew (50:40):
It's good for characters to have, if you like,
non story based connectionslike, so and so is in love with
so and so, or so and so hatesperson c or whatever it is. So
that you've got some, you know,it doesn't just feel like the
thing is on rails. But itactually does feel that there's
a deeper world here that if onlythe players had time, they could

(51:03):
explore deeper or even when theyhaven't got time, they're bloody
going to explore it deeperanyway in a way you didn't
intend. So you're there's adifference between the fly. So
you do have to build up thatsort of I feel network of social
relationships is reallyimportant with NPCs in a in a
one shot.
And I think it is worth spendingtime on that rather than, you

(51:26):
know, I'm I'm more relaxed. My,you know, my big mantra ever
since I read my first PBTA gameis play to find out. So in a
campaign, I like that network tokind of appear organically. And
you you can't afford thatbecause you've only got maximum
four hours to present peoplethat in the world. So I will
agree with you on that point.

Dave (51:47):
Yeah. I think there's a it's also brings me to another
point which is slightlydigressing. I love the way that
the NPCs are handled in TheWalking Dead because

Matthew (52:02):
Tell me more.

Dave (52:03):
Well, because, you know, you've The Walking Dead is
another game, I think, wherewhere community is really
important. So obviously, the thepeople that you live with that
you live with. My grandma, who Ilive with

Matthew (52:15):
John, I live

Dave (52:16):
with. With whom I live. The people with whom you live in
in your haven are reallyimportant. And some of those are
with player characters, butquite a lot of them will be n p
c's. And there might be quite alot of n p c's.
And it it can be very difficultto track. Yeah. If you if you
create those n p c's as youwould a normal player character,

(52:39):
it can be very difficult for a gm to track, you know, what their
skill is in one particular skillover another. What their talents
are and all the rest of it, andhow that plays out. And
actually, at the table, itdoesn't really matter because
the the you know, it onlymatters if the players and that
non player character interact ina way where that non player
character has to do something.

(52:59):
Whether they, you know, if they,you know, if they become enemies
or something. So in the in theWalking Dead I'm trying to work
find the right page because theythey they have a word for it.
But, basically, you each, eacheach each non player character
will have kind of a level ofexpertise in a certain area. And

(53:20):
so, you know, your your combatmight be they might be expert,
in which case, you know, youthey roll seven dice for
anything to do with fighting.For, healing, they might be
novice, in which case they rollthree dice for it.
And and that takes away a lot ofthe, oh, you know, this
character's gonna try and dosomething. Where where's the

(53:42):
right page with that character?Where's the right skill? You can
just, you know, you can justhave it on a

Matthew (53:46):
bit of paper.

Dave (53:47):
Okay. They're an expert at that. Right. I know. It's seven
dice.
Because actually

Matthew (53:51):
I do. I love that. I Yeah. That's I did try and
create that for Coriolis sometime ago, but now I got bogged
down in hit points and shit. So,game Yeah.
And it

Dave (53:59):
because it doesn't it doesn't actually matter for the
player. It doesn't really matterbecause you as the GM are
presenting that characteranyway. And you don't it doesn't
matter if you're presenting, youknow, you you don't get into the
detail of presenting x talent orx skill unless you actually use
that skill against thecharacters. And so it's a really

(54:22):
nice brief way of doing it. AndI think, you know, it's
something that that I would liketo try and develop and and take
advantage of, you know, infuture games when we are, you
know, designing stuff.
Because it, you know, yes, youryour your big NPC who's the big
bad that's gonna be a recurringenemy and, you know, they're
gonna see him a lot. Yes. Theyshould be started out in a bit

(54:43):
more detail because they canhave a more complex and,
intricate interaction with thatcharacter. So that's great. But
for everybody else, I think thatgeneral approach works more than
sufficiently well.
And the players, if you're ahalf decent GM, will never know
the difference.

Matthew (55:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I I do think that is a
really important point aboutdon't waste time on building
stats, which may be perhaps,where we switch over, given the
limited time we have, to talkingabout player characters. Yeah.
Because, obviously, playercharacters have got to have the

(55:25):
proper stats. Like, you know,because as you said, once you're
often introduces the game to abunch of people, they want to
know they want to know they'replaying real characters. Yeah.
Not not some sort of simplifiedversion. So Exactly.
Yeah. So yeah. I I I maybe Ishould look more at at Walking

(55:48):
Dead about how they how they dotheir stuff. I quite like that
expert novice thing. But withplayer characters, obviously,
what you want to do is use themarvelous life path that comes
in every game nowadays, evenAlien in its new evolved
edition.
Don't they, Dave?

Dave (56:04):
Yes. Assuming it's still in. Because I you know, they may
have decided not to include it.But, they they paid me to write
one. So, yeah.
Well, I love I mean, we said itbefore. I love life paths. I
think life path charactergeneration is by far the most
fun way of creating a character.And, you know, it creates
characters that are a little bitunexpected. You know, you you

(56:27):
might have in your in your inyour mind an idea what you think
your or the character you'dquite like to play perhaps.
But then the dice bring you outa character who's a bit
different. And I I love thatthat that unpredictability of of
life paths. But yes. So I mean,for for the you know, talking
about the campfire tales as theyare now, although, actually, as

(56:48):
we're producing them now, theyare being produced as scenarios
that can be played for anygroup. So we haven't included
pre generated characters Yeah.
With those. No. But when theywere the actual play short
scenarios, obviously, they didhave, pre generated characters
with them. Now I I I I rolled upall the characters that I did

(57:09):
for those four stories, and thatwas we bought 24 characters in
total, on the life path. Yeah.
I did a I did all of them.

Matthew (57:18):
Final published version of life path, one before the
final one.

Dave (57:22):
Yeah. But it was pretty similar anyways. There wasn't
that much to change.

Matthew (57:27):
Yeah. But I think we should acknowledge that there
was a sensitivity issue therethat we discovered with one
group of players. And so thatdoesn't exist anymore in the in
the new life path.

Dave (57:36):
Yeah. Yeah. And then I did embellish them a little bit
because, you know, a startingcharacter, is is great, but then
you might want your charactersin a one shot to be a little bit
better than a a basic startingcharacter would be in certain
skills. So the

Matthew (57:52):
play that is a really good point as well. Yeah. Yeah.
I totally agree.

Dave (57:56):
So the players get to feel that I'm a great horseman. I'm a
great gunslinger. I'm a greatdoctor or whatever it might be.
And then it gives them a rolewhere they get, you know, a good
chance of a of a really, really,you know, kind of epic outcome
where they're gonna get a lot ofsuccesses. And that feels really
good.
But for those, you know, thecharacters the base characters

(58:16):
were were all rolled up in thelife path. And then in creating
the the the the short penpicture for each of those
characters, which is, you know,something that's important I
think for a, for a conventiongame. So when you sit down at
the table, you get yourcharacter. You can see your
stats. And then there's a littlebit of a description about, you
know, your character'sbackground.

(58:36):
And you can then take thatbackground and deal with it what
you will as a player, of course.But in that background, I was
able to link each character withat least one or two of the other
characters that are playing inthat group. So you've got
immediate connections betweendifferent players, particularly
if you've got a group of playersin a convention who don't all

(58:58):
know each other. Now often,you'll get one or two. You know,
you get couples or something.
Sometimes you'll get a group offour or five folks who'll come
along as a group. They all knoweach other. You know, they play
together. But often, you getpeople who don't know each
other. And it's a lovely way atthe start of the game to get
them to introduce themselves intheir character and then go
through their background a bitand say, well, yeah.
And my my, you know, my bestfriend is Bob. Oh, that's me.

(59:20):
Hello. You know? And then, oh,but I'm a rival with somebody
else.
And that it's a really good wayof getting the group knowing
each other a little bit ifyou've got a group of five
strangers sitting around yourtable at a convention.

Matthew (59:32):
I agree with all your points there, and particularly,
you know, about, you know,creating connections between the
characters. And I think creatingconnections between the
characters and the world thatyou are playing in. So, you
know, one of the great thingsthat comes out of a life path is
you start to learn about theworld as well. But but keep it

(59:56):
short still. You know, presentthose as bullet points, I think,
for one shot play.
I mean, you know, somecharacters might want a whole
short story, you know. Loads ofplayers, like, write two or
three pages of background fortheir characters when they
create them. But don't don't dothat because not everybody does.
You know, you you want to get abullet point effectively for

(01:00:17):
each of those connections,something people could read
really quickly, I think.

Dave (01:00:21):
So so in the way I did it for the for the for the actual
play shorts was, it was a it wasa paragraph about a 50 words for
each character. So I didn'tbullet point it, but it wasn't
very long. But it was longenough just to give a sense of
where that character was comingfrom, and and who they cared
about or perhaps didn't careabout in, in in the world that
they were about to step into.But yeah. So that's the I think

(01:00:46):
I think that's a key thingthough for conventions, you
know, for creating interestingplayer characters is make sure
that, you know, like you said,they have connections with one
another.
They might have connections withNPCs in the game as well, which
is which is always a usefulthing to do. And as you say,
they've got a connection withthe world. They're they're there
for a reason. And that reason iseasy to easy to understand.

Matthew (01:01:09):
And it's a connection that opens up or explains a bit
the world. So I mean, you know,in Tales of the Old West, pretty
much everybody vaguely has gotan idea what the Old West is.
But if you've got some unusualfantasy world with, I don't
know, dragon flower people, andnobody's ever heard of a dragon
flower person, then make surethere are bits of backstory

(01:01:31):
that, you know, that the groupcan learn from the individual
bits of backstory everythingthey need to know about dragon
flower people and how to playthem or how to interact with
them or whatever. Yeah. Sothere's some weird connections
there.
Right. Now, I'm we're over thehour, Dave. So,

Dave (01:01:50):
You you need to rush off for your Valentine's Day, or
post Valentine's Day soiree,don't you? So,

Matthew (01:01:57):
Well, day out. Day out in Brighton.

Dave (01:01:59):
That's what it is.

Matthew (01:02:01):
So, next, we we had an idea in the middle of this
episode for what we might donext time, didn't we? What was
that? Oh, skills?

Dave (01:02:16):
That was it.

Matthew (01:02:17):
Skills or no skills? Skills to be or not to be. Yeah.
Let's, let's do someinvestigation on that and have a
bit of a discussion about thatin our next episode.

Dave (01:02:29):
So is it is it your turn to write? I think it's your turn
to write an essay, isn't it? Sobecause I did Oh, it

Matthew (01:02:34):
might be.

Dave (01:02:34):
Last time. So, yeah, why don't why don't you put a few
thoughts together on that, andthen, and then we'll have a chat
about

Matthew (01:02:41):
it. Cool.

Dave (01:02:42):
That sound good.

Matthew (01:02:44):
Until then, it's goodbye from me.

Dave (01:02:47):
And it's goodbye from him. And may

Matthew (01:02:50):
the icons bless your adventures.

Dave (01:02:57):
You have been listening to the effect podcast presented by
Fiction Suit and the RPG Gods.Music, stars on a black sea used
with permission of Free LeaguePublishing.

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