Its beginning to feel a lot like Symbaroum

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dave (00:39):
Hello, and welcome to episode 247, the Christmas 2024
episode of Effect. It'sbeginning to feel a lot like
simaroon everywhere you go. I amnot Frank Sinatra. I am Dave.

Matthew (01:00):
Definitely not Frank Sinatra. I'm Matthew, and we
have got, actually asurprisingly packed episode.

Dave (01:08):
Surprisingly packed.

Matthew (01:09):
We've got a great interview with Matthias, which
is all about Syndrome, which, ofcourse, is the meat of this
subject. And then Which

Dave (01:16):
is which is why it's beginning to feel a lot like
cimberoon.

Matthew (01:20):
Yeah. Yeah. I I know the title date. I know

Dave (01:23):
you go. Sorry. I can feel something that's gonna happen
regularly in the show today now.

Matthew (01:31):
And I can see you did say you were gonna try not to
sing it, but obviously

Dave (01:35):
I know.

Matthew (01:36):
I'm your attempt to not sing it failed twice now.

Dave (01:39):
Immediately. Yeah. I think it always was gonna fail
immediately, frankly. Justseeing it there. I can't read
that without singing it.

Matthew (01:46):
That's good.

Dave (01:46):
To feel a lot like.

Matthew (01:50):
Do you wanna

Dave (01:50):
put those show notes

Matthew (01:51):
up on tag so it's just off the top of your screen?

Dave (01:55):
Should I

Matthew (01:57):
Because

Dave (01:57):
Shall I see we

Matthew (01:58):
were gonna keep we were gonna keep our chat, this chat
that we're having now, Dave,quite short because we've got a
good 40 minutes, if not more,of, your man, Matthias. So, you
know, if we're gonna keep withinthe hour, we need to keep this
bit short. And that means notnot frequently singing, it's
beginning to feel a lot likecimbering.

Dave (02:16):
It's beginning to feel a lot like cimbering. Everywhere.
I think I think you've got themessage now. Every time you say
cimbering, I'm gonna sing withthe friends.
So this is the test. Can you canyou go through the episode
without episode about Simbirumwithout saying Simbirum?

Matthew (02:35):
Well, I can because the other things on the world of
gaming or the other things wewant to talk about in the next
15 minutes or so are the worldof gaming, which is surprisingly
packed. Actually, I thought itwas gonna be a a quiet world of
gaming slot, this week, butit's, there's a lot of news to
talk about. So we'll talk aboutthat news. And then, of course,
we've got, old west news forthose of you who haven't already

(02:58):
received our email fromKickstarter or subscribe to our
mailing list on,www.effectpublishing.com. And,
you've got our email there.
Those two emails are subtlydifferent, I want to point out.
It's not the same text justcopied and painted pasted. We
we, you know, we we serve ourdifferent audiences differently.

Dave (03:21):
We like to test you with a with a, you know, with a with a
typo or two to make sure youcan, you know, especially when
Matthew is writing it. Yeah.

Matthew (03:29):
Yeah. So we got some old best news, and then we've
got the interview. So but wemoved straight away here at
3:16. So

Dave (03:36):
what what's the interview about later on?

Matthew (03:39):
I'm not gonna tell you what the interview is about.
It's about the work thatMatthias has been doing and is
planning to do at FreelyPublishing.

Dave (03:48):
On what game line in particular?

Matthew (03:50):
Oh, well, the what we like to call the team Yarn
Ringing game line.

Dave (03:59):
I'm gonna catch you out at some point in the next 4
minutes.

Matthew (04:02):
I'm sure you are.

Dave (04:04):
Anyway, yes. Sorry about that.

Matthew (04:07):
Now, so, we have the most important thing now in the
world of gaming, which, Dave, westarted talking about about 45
seconds ago. But you werethinking about trying to get me
to say the word that I'm notgonna mention.

Dave (04:23):
It's a bit it's a bit harsh on Matthias, isn't it, to
to now have a whole episodeactually promoting what he's
doing on SimbaRoom and not saythe word SimbaRoom. Anyway
That's

Matthew (04:33):
that's absolutely fine. You've said the word and said
the word more often thanstrictly necessary. Now, the the
big news, the important news isTales of the Old West is on end
world's poll for the mostanticipated game of 2025.

Dave (04:54):
Yeah. So how did it get on that list? Did you just ask
them? Or

Matthew (05:00):
No. Somebody

Dave (05:02):
Wow.

Matthew (05:02):
Who isn't me. Somebody who isn't me. So, a couple of
weeks ago, I I noticed that,actually, we talked about this
while I was at Dragon Meat. Abit before Dragon Meat, your
man, Morris of M World put out ablog post or whatever you might
call it on his forum. Forum.
Forum post. That's what it'scalled. Those little things,

(05:23):
saying, nominate your games for,most anticipated

Dave (05:30):
game. Anticipated. Yep.

Matthew (05:32):
There's a bunch of rules. It can't just be a
reprint, but it can be a newaddition, I think, of a game. It
can't be a supplement. There'sthere's some stuff like that.
Yeah.
You've got to include a link toto the, to the thing, you know,

(05:52):
to the website. Yep. Yep. SoMoeller still doesn't have to go
off looking for it.

Dave (05:56):
Find himself. Yeah.

Matthew (05:58):
And then he puts up a list, which he did a few days
ago now, Tuesday last week orsomething like that. Wednesday,
Tuesday. And you if you can goto the Nworld website, which we
will put a link to in the shownotes directly, in fact, to the
link. You have to be a member ofNworld, so you've got to sign up

(06:20):
for Nworld. No big deal.
It doesn't cost you any money oranything. And it's quite a good
site for keeping on top of thenews. Mhmm. And some nice
articles and blogs and stuff.Your mate, Andrew Peregrine,
writes there quite frequently.

Dave (06:34):
Yes.

Matthew (06:34):
Yeah. So, yeah, a good thing. I mean, you know, n world
let's remember, n world is thebirthplace of the n e's. They've
become a separate organizationnow, but n world is, you know,
one of the most important sitesfor for gaming as a whole.
Anyway, sign up for Nworld, andthen you can vote for 3 games on

(06:56):
that list.
Just tick the boxes by them andpress vote, and you're done.
Yep. So you don't have to justvote for us. But if you're
listening, if you're listening,please, please go and vote for
us because particularly ifyou've already backed, Tales of
the Old West because you wantlots of people to play with. And

Dave (07:16):
Yes. The

Matthew (07:16):
more recognition the game gets, and more people hear
about it even even through endworld, you know, it end world is
slightly D and D skewed, it'sgonna be said, because that's
that's where its origin was in.So there's a lot of, people who
read it who may not have heardabout Tales of the Old West.
Although we did they wrotesomething nice about us when we

(07:39):
had the Kickstarter going intheir sort of Kickstarter
roundup. So, yeah, please vote.See see if we can get up in the
ranks.
I'm not expecting to be the mostanticipated game of 2025 because
I think there are some biglicenses. There's Discworld.
There's Monty Python all comingup next year.

Dave (07:56):
New new alien.

Matthew (07:58):
New alien. I don't know whether new alien is on the
list, actually. I think it is.Yeah. Interesting thing.

Dave (08:02):
It is.

Matthew (08:03):
Okay. Personally, I wouldn't have nominated it
because I'm not convinced it'sactually gonna be out next year.
You may know differently, but,if they're kick starting it next
year, then, you know, seeing howlong That's

Dave (08:19):
true. That's true. I'm pretty sure. So I I looked at
the list. I'm sure it's there,Alien Evolved.
Yeah.

Matthew (08:24):
It might be. It might be. You know, you're, you know,
you're you're allowed to assumeit's coming. I I if I'd been
nominating, I wouldn't have putit down. Korea list, The Great
Dark, should be coming out inthe coming year.
So Yeah. That is in there. But Ididn't put it down. Anyway, so
we're on the list. Please votefor us at the link we'll put

(08:45):
down in the show notes.

Dave (08:46):
Yes. Please do. That'd be cool.

Matthew (08:48):
If you're already Nworld members, do that. Oh, the
one ring.

Dave (08:54):
The one ring.

Matthew (08:54):
There's a new book out for the one ring.

Dave (08:56):
The elf book.

Matthew (08:58):
Yes.

Dave (08:59):
So is that The

Matthew (08:59):
2 elf books.
one to one ring.

Dave (09:02):
Or was that out for pre order?

Matthew (09:04):
It's up for pre order, but I think when you pre order,
you immediately get the PDF.

Dave (09:09):
Right. Okay. Cool.

Matthew (09:11):
Which kind of tempted me. Kind of tempted me, I have
to admit. But I've stayed strongbecause and also I've stayed
brassic because having been toIceland and, a few months ago
bought bought a new guitar, Idon't have any money anymore. So
so, yeah, I'm strong on thatone. I'm kinda really curious

(09:33):
though because I play an elf inthe campaign, so I wanna see
what new elf powers one gets.

Dave (09:38):
Yeah. So what what's what's the book gonna cover
then? Do you do we know?

Matthew (09:43):
So, of course, it comes in 2 flavors. For the 1 ring,
it's Realms of the 3 Rings.

Dave (09:48):
Yeah. And

Matthew (09:49):
for Lord of the Rings, it's Keepers of the Elven Rings.
Yeah. Cool. And, there arerules. There's background law.
There's artwork and more, itsays.

Dave (10:02):
Okay. Cool. I mean, I'm I'm not getting this stuff
because I don't think I'm evergonna run the one ring.

Matthew (10:09):
That's fine. That's fine.

Dave (10:10):
And I and I don't know anyone who's got it who I expect
might run it in a game that Iwould be involved. And I I'm not
I'm not feeling the urge to playit either. I don't know why. I I
really enjoyed running the, thestarter set adventures with all
the all the hobbits for, for UKGames Expo that time. That was

(10:31):
great fun.
But, yeah. I don't know why itshould, because I love Lord of
the Rings.

Matthew (10:38):
I'm I'm loving the system. And I've gotta say, I
play an elf, and, elves, onerealizes, are bloody shits,
basically. And they're arrogantfuckers.

Dave (10:53):
But perfect for you. You're not really roleplaying
then, are you, mate?

Matthew (10:56):
No. I'm not really. I'm just being myself. And there's
the wonderful ability that youcan pretty much do anything by
spending a hope point. Right.
Well, I
have to slightly caveat that. Inthe first printing, it said you
can pretty much do anything byspending a hope point. Now
you've gotta have at least onepoint in the skill that is
related to it and spend the hopepoint.

Dave (11:17):
Right.

Matthew (11:18):
But still, it means that, you know, you you you can
you can have some you can dothat thing where, in from the
films where your man, Aragorn is

Dave (11:32):
Okay.

Matthew (11:32):
Feeling the earth. No. Aragorn is feeling the earth,
and he's, you know, he's hearingabout and he he he senses that
there's maybe, horsemen orsomething chasing them. And,
Legolas just looks up and says,oh, yeah. There's 27 of them,
and they're blonde or whateverit is.

Dave (11:47):
And they're over there. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Matthew (11:50):
So you you do that. You do that quite a lot. I quite
like in doing that with myfellow players just to piss them
off. So, yeah. There's that.
There's, there's details onLorien, Rivendell, and Lindon,
details of Sauron's schemesagainst the immortal folk,

(12:14):
including new events, enemies,and characters, 12 landmarks,
which are kind of mini adventuresites,

Dave (12:20):
Yeah.

Matthew (12:20):
And the rules of lordship, a robust appendix
containing guidelines forcreating and playing as high
elves of Rivendell or the elvesof Lorien and the elf lords,
which, you know, might might begood, especially suited for solo
play, apparently. Okay.

Dave (12:39):
Well, that's that's that's that I mean, you should get it
and and see what that sort ofacts. You got some solo rules to
write, haven't you, mate?

Matthew (12:44):
Oh, yeah. We have. We can talk about that a bit later
on. Anyway, that that's out. Andif Cool.
If you're not Dave and you arekind of thinking what? I like
elves, but I haven't got talesof the one ring yet. There's
also a tales of the one ring.

Dave (13:00):
Tail tales of the one ring?

Matthew (13:02):
Tales of the one ring. What do I mean? The one ring.

Dave (13:08):
McFly? McFly? Are you in there? Tales of the one ring?
What are you doing?

Matthew (13:13):
Well, it's it's it's great. It is

Dave (13:18):
it is quite early on.

Matthew (13:19):
We're announcing it now. It's our new year 0, engine
ad adaptation.

Dave (13:24):
It's a crossover between Lord of the Rings and and and
Wild West, Tales of the OneRing.

Matthew (13:29):
Anyway, Yeah. If you haven't if you haven't got Lord
of the Ring sorry. If youhaven't got now you got me
confused.

Dave (13:36):
The 1 ring.

Matthew (13:37):
There is a bundle of holding currently on bundle of
holding, to get the wholecaboodle. Not obviously the new
Elf book, but, everything elsethat's out in in PDF form for
cheap money.

Dave (13:53):
Cheap money.

Matthew (13:56):
So anyway, that that that's that's all I wanted to
say about that. What other newshave we got? Oh, god. I've got
all the news actually, becauseyou know nothing about, the
Pentagon GM Sky.

Dave (14:08):
I've been far too busy trying to get what work I needed
to do done by Christmas, which Ididn't quite manage, but it's
okay, to actually have any toactually have any time to sit
back and indulge in in the hobbythat I I love and read anything.

Matthew (14:22):
Well, they do say this about people who create games.
What work have you been doing?Could you give us any subtle
hints?

Dave (14:28):
Finishing off

Matthew (14:29):
Can I have the same thing specifically?

Dave (14:30):
Finishing off the campaign for the mythic battles Ragnarok
project that Monolith isproducing. So that's the game
which is, that they have a theyhave a board game called mythic
battles, and they are,converting it into role playing
game. And so you've got theRagnarok, the Norse mythology,

(14:50):
setting, which is what I'mworking on. You also have the
pantheon, so you've got theGreek, gods, the Greek mythology
one as well. And if those gowell, they are gonna look at
doing an Egyptian, mythology onetoo.
But I've been working on theRagnarok one, which has been
great fun, actually. It's beenreally good. It's, but I'm
working on the the the campaignthat comes with the gem screen.

(15:13):
There's 3 scenarios, and I hopehope to get it all done before
Christmas. But, one thing andanother got in the way.
So I haven't quite finished it,but that's okay because,
I've been chatting with Shepabout it. So Shep Shep Shepson
is the the project manager forMonolith on this,

Matthew (15:28):
which is great

Dave (15:28):
because it's fabulous working with Shep again. He's
he's a he's a real real pleasureto work with.

Matthew (15:33):
Yeah. Lovely guy.

Dave (15:34):
He's really great. Yeah. And so that's been a lot of fun.
It's quite funny because I Ihaving a Swedish wife and and
enjoying kind of some of the theIt's really folklore.
The differences about Swedish orScandinavian culture. I really
got into using, letters from,you know, all the Swedish

(15:55):
languages, you know, Finnish andIcelandic in particular.

Matthew (15:58):
When you say letters, you mean the actual glyphs as
opposed to Yeah.

Dave (16:03):
The the

Matthew (16:03):
a letter what I wrote to father Christmas.

Dave (16:05):
Yeah. So the letters from from their alphabets, which
Yeah. Say for example, inSwedish, you've got, 3 or 3
extra letters, or, a, and youhave Mhmm. Symbols for those. So
I've used I've I've I've I'vescattered those amongst my work.

Matthew (16:21):
Excellent.

Dave (16:22):
Because, well, it's not it's not quite so. But because
because some of the particularlysome of the Icelandic ones
become quite difficult topronounce.

Matthew (16:31):
Oh, yes. I've just been to Iceland.

Dave (16:33):
We had a message come down saying, okay, take them all out
except for the ones that we needfor the word Ragnarok, which has
got the symbol. So all thelovely all the lovely culturally
thing you know, culturally, youknow, indicative stuff that I've
done has to be changed. Butthat's not a problem. It's quite
easy. And I can understand whybecause even I was struggling to
pronounce some of the words thatI've made up.

(16:54):
So if if if I, as the writer,couldn't do it, then it's it's
not fair to expect the theplayers to

Matthew (17:00):
Me and players to do it.

Dave (17:02):
But yeah. So that I was hoping to finish that by close
of play yesterday. We didn'tquite get down, not yesterday,
Friday, 2 days ago, at the timeof recording. Didn't quite get
there, so we've got a bit moreto do between Christmas and New
Year. And I've got to finish offa little bit of work for Free
League as well on Alien Evolved,which is mostly done, but the

(17:22):
work is mostly about taking thewords out of that one rather
than do anything else.
Is it off is ever the way withFree League? But, but that's
fine. They're quite they'requite strict on their word
counts, at least with me. Yeah.Maybe maybe the the experience
of having having Drew providethem with 3 times more words
than they actually want.

Matthew (17:40):
Yeah. They they don't seem to be that strict with
Drew, did they?

Dave (17:43):
Well, I think they are. And actually, I've got away with
more words than than they'veasked a few times as well, but
they've just gone off. Fuck it.Go on then. But, yeah, they're
quite strict on that.
So I'm trying I'm trying to be agood freelancer and and stick to
those word limits if I can.

Matthew (17:59):
Yeah. I remember when we were writing the little
supplement bits for seasons ofmystery for Versen. They gave us
a a word count of, like, a 150words or something. And I, you
know, you know, I was verydisciplined, and we wrote a 150
words. And I said, oh, you couldhave done more.

Dave (18:17):
I think Yeah. That's that's that's that's unusual.
But they turned around and say,you could have done more.

Matthew (18:22):
Yeah. And it wasn't even, oh, could you add some
more to this? Because we itdoesn't quite make sense. It's
just, oh, you didn't need tostick it to 150 words. And which
is why didn't you say 300 wordsor whatever the number was?

Dave (18:34):
Yeah.

Matthew (18:36):
I guess they were kind of expecting us to go over the
word count anyway.

Dave (18:39):
But Yeah. I think so. I think they give the word count
and then expect it to be doubledprobably. Yeah. And I'm
pleasantly surprised when itisn't or maybe, you know, just
like, hang on.
You you hit the word count. Whatthe hell are you doing? This
isn't right. Anyway anyway, sothat's why I haven't had much
time to sit back and and indulgein reading about stuff like the

(19:00):
Pendragon's Games Master Guide.

Matthew (19:02):
Right. So I haven't actually I I don't know much
about the Pendragon's GamesMaster. I mean, they haven't
actually said that much, apartfrom it being advice for GMs
running campaigns and thingslike that. The interesting thing
that so it's just beenannounced. It's not even
available.
Well, you may be able topreorder it, but you you don't
get a big year for it oranything like that. It it'll be

(19:24):
coming in in the next year. I II was just taken by the fact
that Greg Stafford is boldly onthe cover as the only author,
which, given he's been dead forquite a few years now, I it just
makes me wonder, is this stuffthat he wrote in the past as his
own notes for guidelines, andand they've just given it an

(19:47):
edit and, turned it into a book.Or is it Greg Stafford and
Friends like it often is, theChaosium stuff. And Yeah.
They just haven't finishedwriting it on the on the cover
image they've given us becausethey don't know quite who's
gonna be involved in it yet.Anyway, I just

Dave (20:05):
Probably a bit of both, I suspect. I mean, it's probably
based on the core that GregStafford had done. And then then
some people are, you know, justjust making it fit the product
for today in one way or another.So, you know, maybe totally, you
know, entirely appropriate forGreg to have the posthumous lead
writer credit. Yeah.

(20:25):
Such as it is, sadly.

Matthew (20:28):
And the other thing, the last bit of news, which sort
of segues nicely into Tales ofthe Old West. The western RPG
from Ask Forgall that we batyears ago, kind of more out of
interest because we were juststarting to write what became
Tales of the Old West at thetime. That has delivered. It's

(20:51):
not delivered in paper form yet,but, we've got if you check
through your mail, you will finda link for this, Dave.

Dave (20:59):
When you meant when you mentioned it half an hour ago, I
did just check and the the thethe link is there, but I haven't
looked at it. I haven't lookedat it yet. So

Matthew (21:07):
And that's a link that gives you to a package of, PDFs
on drive through, which includethe 2 core books. Some people
may have backed bigger biggerpackages, and I don't know
whether those bigger packageswith all the supplements and
stuff, they're in PDF too. Butthe core books, you know, and
some extraneous things likecouch sheets and stuff like that

(21:29):
are all in this package. Istarted looking at it, and,
obviously, my first thought isto compare it with the with the
word Compare it with

Dave (21:39):
comparison with our approach. Yeah.

Matthew (21:41):
And then I stopped looking at it because I thought,
actually, this deserves a bitmore time, and it could well be
a feature for the podcast. Mhmm.So Okay. I'm suggesting in a few
week few weeks time, in anepisode when we haven't got
anything else to talk about, Imight, analyse analyse it and do
a little essay on on thedifferent approaches. Because in

(22:03):
many ways, I think it's gonna bevery similar, but, in no.
Shall we say, in many ways, Ithink the aims will be similar,
but we will have taken verydifferent approaches from what
I've just glimpsed at in theplayer's guide PDF that I
opened. So, I think that may beworth a more, considered

(22:27):
response.

Dave (22:29):
Yes. Yes.
In a future. Yeah. Cool. Goodidea. Yeah.
I should I should look forwardto opening it up over Christmas
and having a quick look. And,yeah. It's in 2017. I think May
2017 was when the Kickstarterhappened. So it's been

Matthew (22:42):
a So 7 years ago.

Dave (22:44):
Seven and a half years to get get here. But, as I said
before, I I got to the pointwhere I'd written it off and
never expected to see it at all.So actually, having it turn up
is is a is a bonus.

Matthew (22:55):
It's a pleasant surprise.

Dave (22:56):
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Cool. So segueing from one
western to another.

Matthew (23:04):
Mhmm.

Dave (23:04):
Old west news. So we have well, we've been cracking on
with, well actually I think moreyou than me actually because
since we got the the the finaledit finished on the text, we've
been very much well and got theartwork in and got the map
sorted out. We're very much intothe realms of layout. So I'm I'm

(23:26):
leaving the the, you know, thelion's share of of dealing with
with, with Stefan, our ourfabulous layout guy, to you
because, you know, you know whatyou're talking about. Well, you
don't.
I don't, I think. But, you know,you you pretend better than I
do.

Matthew (23:40):
I I pretend to know what.

Dave (23:43):
And that seems to be coming along pretty well. It
seems to be a bigger task thanwe'd originally anticipated.

Matthew (23:50):
Yes. So I need you to cut out not a few hundred words,
but about 80 pages, Dave.

Dave (23:57):
It's fine. I'll just find stuff any stuff that you wrote
and cut those out, that will befine.

Matthew (24:01):
I think, yeah. I I think it's more pages than we
thought. Also, I think thatdoing the tables is proving a
bit of a challenge. Not notanything that, just, Jesper, I
was gonna call, isn't it?

Dave (24:14):
Time time consuming, isn't it?

Matthew (24:17):
I think. Yeah. Time consuming. Not anything you
can't do. Yeah.
There's a lot of tables there.Really? And so I think that, you
know and and, of course, youwanna try and have a table on
one page rather than across 2pages except when it's gonna be
a table that is a purposefuldouble page spread. So, yeah,
fiddly. Fiddly is the bit.
And I expect we'll get a firstversion, a first complete

(24:42):
version early in the new year.Then there will still be a bunch
more work to do on it because,obviously, you know, we need to
kind of edit it and, proofreadit and stuff like that. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, and fix a bunchof the issues that I'm sure we
will spot in that editing.

(25:03):
So but I think we may well haveit by the end of January.

Dave (25:08):
Yeah. Exactly.

Matthew (25:10):
Okay. It's it's a month later than we originally
thought. But it is a big job,and it's a bigger job than we
realized, I think.

Dave (25:16):
Yeah. And it's in it's interesting that I mean, the the
the the page count we came upwith was a very, very, sort of
finger in the air, but industrystandard ish of 500 words equals
1 page. Now that's that's verygeneric because, obviously,
you'll get a lot of books thatwill put more words on the page

(25:37):
than that, and you'll get manythat will put fewer. But as a as
a rough guide now I think whatwe're learning is that rough
guide for tales of the old west,where we do have quite a few
tables. We do have quite a lotof that kind of stuff in there.
That rough guide isn't a goodguide, because, obviously, we
came out at 200 or so pages, andwe're gonna, you

(26:00):
know, land with a book that'sgonna be a third bigger than
that. So that's a good thing forus. A good a good, good learning
point for us for future. And insome ways, I'm I'm I'm much
happier that we've turned upwith a book that's gonna be 280
pages than a book that's gonnabe a 150.

Matthew (26:19):
Yeah.

Dave (26:19):
I think I think, you know, providing a a a nice chunky,
heavy feel book with with lotsand lots of good stuff in it.
Yeah. That make that gives me anice warm feeling. Even if it's
gonna cost us a bit more acrossthe board, because it will cost
a bit more to ship, it'll cost abit more to print, but that's,

(26:40):
you know, that's that's fine. Ithink, you know, because the
kick started doing so well, wehave the money to to deal with
that, which is great.

Matthew (26:47):
I hope. Don't say that quite yet.

Dave (26:50):
Yeah. I mean We haven't

Matthew (26:51):
done the final accounting yet.

Dave (26:53):
If our if our money is disappearing, mate, I'm gonna
want a very close look at thoseaccounts.

Matthew (26:57):
No. No. No. No.

Dave (26:58):
And and and how you paid for your Icelandic holiday.

Matthew (27:02):
We've still got all the money that we well, we haven't
got all the all the money thatwe haven't spent

Dave (27:06):
on art

Matthew (27:06):
and stuff. But Yeah. No. And, yeah, I I think we've
got, because because of thegenerosity of our backers, we
should have enough money toprint a bigger book and stuff
like that without dipping intoour own pockets again. But we
might have to dip into our ownpockets again, our savings.
We'll see. We'll see.

Dave (27:27):
Yeah. I I I I sincerely hope you don't have to because
the, the cost the cost will goup a bit, but they won't go up
exponentially.

Matthew (27:36):
No. No. No. No. Yeah.
I've I've written to, standardto find out how much the extra
printer is gonna cost and stufflike that. Yeah. And the other
thing, the other we've we'veseen dice. I think I've put a
link in all our socials so youcan find those dice. They're on

(27:56):
the wing, you know.
These prototypes, I should say,not the full stocks. The
prototypes are winging their wayfrom China, even as we speak. So
we'll as soon as I hold them inmy hands, I'll know whether
we're gonna press the go onthem. But Yeah. They look good.

Dave (28:12):
Yep. They look very nice.

Matthew (28:13):
I'm, talking with our, dice tray producer about dice
trays. We've got quite nicedesign we quite like, which,
came from one of the last bitsof art that we got in that you
and I date. We both agreed assoon as we saw it. Well, not
quite as soon as we saw it. WhenI asked a question, so why don't

(28:33):
we get a bit on the dice tray?
We both had exactly the sameidea.

Dave (28:36):
Yeah. This

Matthew (28:37):
that would be

Dave (28:37):
cool for the dice tray. Yeah. It's fabulous. Bit of
artwork there. Yeah.
Very evocative, very westernthemed. You look really good.

Matthew (28:43):
Yeah. And what I like about it, it's a bit like the 4,
the 4 cowboys in the snow, whichis one of our first pieces we
commissioned.

Dave (28:50):
That's a great one as well. Yeah.

Matthew (28:52):
I like and I almost wondering whether there's this
could be a movement in in RPGart that you don't detail
necessarily. I mean, the beautyof this one is these are 4
faceless individuals. Yeah.They've got cowboy hats on.
They're worn horses, So you knowthey're cowboys, but you don't
know who they are.
And the beauty of that is theycould be you. They could be your

(29:15):
character.

Dave (29:15):
They could be you.

Matthew (29:16):
Unless your character absolutely refuses to wear a
cowboy hat. But, you know, and

Dave (29:20):
I like that. Yeah. And I also excuse me. I also like it.
It's, it's very evocative of theopening credits of Young Guns,
where they have a very similarsimilar kind of color palette
and silhouettes for the maincharacters, where where they all
just shoot lots of guns at thescreen as the music's playing.
And I like that's a really nicelittle thing. That's, I like

(29:43):
that as well very much. That'svery cool.

Matthew (29:46):
Yeah. Anyway, so it's all underway, and, you'll hear
more from us in the new year.And maybe you'll have a PDF in
your hands.

Dave (29:57):
Well, you will definitely have a PDF in your hands in the
not too distant future. Yeah.So, yeah, apologies are a little
bit behind schedule, but I thinkthis I think this is always
gonna happen. I think we were Isaid before, we we sort of fell
into the the rookie mistake ofbeing a little bit over
enthusiastic and and about howquickly we could get all this
done. And I think our Christmasdeadline was probably never

(30:20):
going to be really realistic,but we're only gonna be a few
weeks after that.
So apologies, but please bearwith us. We are learning as we
go. I'm sure we'll make the samemistakes again in future. But,
cool. Yeah.
It's it's it's good. And thenthe other thing we've got so
we've then as soon as this isdone, so in the new year, we'll
then start working on the otherparts of

Matthew (30:41):
Oh, yes. Which is what I promised we'd come back to
later on. So some of our stretchgoals, what are you gonna work
on stretch goal wise?

Dave (30:50):
So we've got 3, as we call them, actual play shorts.

Matthew (30:54):
Now I think we called them campfire tales, Dave.

Dave (30:56):
We did call them campfire tales in the end. Yes. So we've
got 3 of those to to write.They'll be short, short
scenarios, which, we, which Iwrote as as actual play, games
to to run-in advance of thekickstarter and during the
kickstarter. So you've got 3 ofthose.
You've got the gift horse, whereyou play a house homesteading

(31:19):
family. You've got, biting thedust in albuquerque, where you
you play characters who aregoing to retrieve someone's
stolen property. And you have,what's the last one called? The
Las Vegas legacy, where there ismoney to be had if you can find
and and capture the right personor kill possibly.

Matthew (31:41):
Yeah. And that one is a little bit of a pvp one I've
discovered in running it throughan actual place.

Dave (31:47):
It's designed with the option of it breaking down into
a bit of a pvp event at the end.Yeah. Yeah. So, Yeah. So so
yeah.
So those will be written, andthey'll come to you in PDF form.
And then we have the solo rulesthat that Matthew, you

Matthew (32:02):
volunteered The lone rider.

Dave (32:04):
The lone rider that you've had you volunteered to have the
first stab at.

Matthew (32:07):
So, yeah. This is gonna be an experiment for us, because
as we said, we we haven't donesolo rules before. But, there
was a demand from our backers.There seems to be a demand for
solo generally. Free leagueseems now to be including solo
rules with every new release.
So That's

Dave (32:24):
a standard. Yeah. Absolutely.

Matthew (32:26):
Yeah. So this this isn't coming in the core book
because we really don't know howto write it for the core book.
But I I hope to be spendingquite a bit of my summer break
actually playing some of thesolo rules that I've got, and,
analyzing them, and thinkingabout what makes them good. I I
think we've got a lot of stuffin our campaign, randomization

(32:49):
thing already in the book thatwe could, you know, we're we're
not I don't wanna say we'rehalfway there, but we've got a
lot of detail that happened inthe core rules that could make
cellular rules really good fun.Yeah.
And the question the biggestquestion of my mind is sort of
how you frame it. So, so yeah.Good. We're we're gonna do that

(33:12):
as a bit of experiment. That maytake more time because I'm gonna
write something, and I'm gonnahand it over to Dave, and Dave's
gonna tell me it's shit.
And then and then we're gonnahave a big, sulk, and then I'm
gonna prove him wrong. It's assimple as that. That's the way
it normally works with all thesethings.

Dave (33:31):
Anyway, yes.

Matthew (33:33):
Moving on, shall we?

Dave (33:34):
It'll be an interesting little, little experiment. As
I've never put my mind towardssolo rules before because it's
not something that I've everthought I would ever play. So
Yeah. It's gonna be it's gonnabe interesting. I look forward
to seeing what you come up with.

Matthew (33:48):
Yeah. Yeah.

Dave (33:50):
And then saying, it's shit.

Matthew (33:54):
Yes. We shall, so that that's my plan for the Christmas
holidays. Shall we move onthough to Yes. Matias' plans for
Simburoon?

Dave (34:04):
It's beginning to feel a lot like Simburoon. So hello.
Here we are in Hamam. And today,I'm absolutely delighted to
welcome back yet again, thewonderful and lovely Matthias
Jonsson Harker. Welcome back,Matthias.
Fabulous to see you.

Mattias (34:22):
Likewise. It's it's been, too long, guys.

Matthew (34:26):
Yeah. And, Dave, I think, really, rather than yes
again, we should have beensaying friend of the show, not
just a

Dave (34:35):
That wasn't yes again. I said, oh, god. We've got
Matthias again because hecouldn't get anybody else. That
was, yes again. It's wonderful.
We've got Matthias on yet again.It's

Mattias (34:43):
You know, you don't you don't really have to to sweet
talk me or anything because I II still feel like I'm very much
responsible for your productexisting.

Dave (34:57):
How are you?

Matthew (34:59):
How so, Matthias?

Mattias (35:01):
With the I mean, with the creation of Coriolis, the
Oh, yeah. Oh,

Matthew (35:05):
yeah. Exactly.

Dave (35:06):
Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew (35:06):
That is true. That is true.

Dave (35:08):
That is that is very true. I'm surprised you

Mattias (35:10):
forgot that. Like one of your first episodes as well
when you came to Stockholm and

Matthew (35:16):
Yeah. It was very early on, our 1st Christmas episode or
first December episode. Sowhat's that?

Dave (35:22):
No. 7 years ago. November 2017, it was when we came with
man.

Mattias (35:28):
17. Oh, shit.

Dave (35:30):
I know. I I know. Where is the time zone? It's ridiculous,
isn't it?

Mattias (35:35):
Yeah.

Dave (35:35):
Yeah. And we all still look as young and handsome as we
did then.

Mattias (35:40):
Yeah. You do. Yes.

Dave (35:43):
So I looked old and ugly back then.

Matthew (35:44):
Thank you, pal. Yeah. That is so

Dave (35:49):
who invited Matthias back on again?

Matthew (35:51):
Anyway invite Matthias back on at the special request
of our listeners.

Mattias (35:55):
Yeah.

Matthew (35:56):
Our listeners have demanded Matthias, And who are
we to argue with our listeners?So we've had requests. We to
drag you onto the show kickingand screaming, Matthias, and,
and ask you about future plansfor SimbaRoom. SimbaRoom.

Mattias (36:17):
Ah, that alright. This okay. You wanna talk about that?

Matthew (36:21):
Has been rumors, and we wanna separate the rumors from
the truth of this one.

Dave (36:27):
Mhmm. Which from the.

Matthew (36:28):
So I guess I guess, first of all, let let's just
let's just review, Symbroomb aswe know it at the moment. It's
you have or or the company,including you, have just
finished the enormous campaign,

Dave (36:47):
Throne of thorns.

Matthew (36:48):
Throne of thorns. Well, not just finished. But in terms
of there are there are nowlisteners who I know are getting
to the end of actually playingthrough that campaign. So so in
a way, this is the end of an erafor SimbaRoom. How do you feel

(37:10):
in review?
Mhmm. Did it do everything thatyou wanted it to do?

Mattias (37:16):
Well and then some, I would say. Mhmm. But it was also
very much more work, thananticipated. I I mean, we I I
think I didn't even reflect wayback when, say, in 2014 or

(37:37):
something like that when westarted sketching out, you know,
we're going to establish a newrole playing games brand. How do
we do that?
Yeah. We will do it with amassive chronicle or campaign.
So let's go really crazy. And wewe were, like, already known in

(37:58):
Sweden for for these big, high,concept campaigns for other
games that we published only inSwedish. And, also, we had
started sketching out the themercy of the icons for for

(38:18):
Coriolis.
So, I mean, looking at it now, II am I am absolutely astonished
that we managed to row that orsail that that ship into a

(38:43):
harbor. Mhmm. I'm alsoastonished that people are
actually playing it the wholeway through. And not only
astonished, I am super thankfulbecause why the age did I do it
if if people wouldn't be able toplay it? So, no, I'm I'm, I'm

(39:05):
super happy.
But and that this is what wewill talk about today. I mean,
at the end of the very finalheader, head, yeah, header in
the book, Davocar Awakens, whichis the final part of the
chronicle, that final headerreads farewell Davocar. So I am

(39:33):
not the least surprised thatthere are speculations going on.
And I also more or less startedthose speculations when I write
in that paragraph. So Okay.

Matthew (39:46):
But you're forced to be done

Dave (39:47):
with that also. But that also, a a a farewell to avocar
from you

Matthew (39:53):
as as

Dave (39:53):
the creator.

Mattias (39:54):
Not necessarily for the gaming group. No. Right. But
it's,

Dave (39:59):
It's your side.

Mattias (40:00):
It's something that we set up for your life. Handing it
over to the the the gaminggroup, the GM, and the players
to because I have always been ofthe the opinion that when you
write a really big epicchronicle, it the whole thing

(40:22):
kind of falls flat, deflates ifthe end isn't not maybe world
altering, but at least haveserious consequences for a lot
of people in a lot of placesYeah. In that fantasy setting.
So it it was the plan alreadyfrom the start that when we get

(40:43):
to the end of the chronicle, wewill not be able to control what
happens after because that'stotally up to you guys at the
table at the table. Mhmm.
Nice. And and that means thatthe the idea, the plan was all
along that once the throne ofthorns was, so to so to speak,

(41:07):
finished from our side, then wewould move on to some place
else. Mhmm. And, yeah, as youprobably know, we have right now
on preorder, 106 76 pagehardback that covers Agriela,

(41:28):
which is the the high seat of inin Umbria in the same region to
be played, like, with a totallynew adventuring party or to be
played in in an interim betweenparts of the chronicle for those
who haven't finished it yet. Soit's the Davuka region isn't

(41:51):
totally dead.
I'm I'm expecting to see stuffon Free League workshop that
covers, like, different possibleoutcomes of the throne of thorns
or that that focuses in on onaspects of the Davica region
where we haven't been verydetailed, or haven't had time to

(42:13):
to cover in the the thepublished books. But but we want
to look to new vistas.

Matthew (42:20):
Yeah. Yeah. So in a in a way, you've got the situation
now where which is a thing, Ithink, that that RPG IPs really
grapple with in that you wantplayers want to have an effect
on the world and to change theworld, but they also don't want

(42:41):
the world to change becausethey're more than enough to They
love

Dave (42:44):
it so much. Yeah.

Matthew (42:45):
Yeah. So, you know, and we've we've had that, in in
we've seen that, no spoilers, inCoriolis a bit where people have
gone, oh, I I felt a little bitforced into a particular change
that happened onto that world.Here, you've said this is very
much led by the table, but thatdoes mean that as many tables as

(43:06):
there are playing Simba Room,you've got that many versions of
Davikar now.

Mattias (43:11):
Roughly.

Matthew (43:11):
So let's get one thing so I just wanna reiterate one
thing you said. You're lookingfor for people who do carry on
playing in Davakar to share whatthey're playing. They are
adventures of the I

Mattias (43:25):
absolutely love that. Oh, man.

Matthew (43:28):
Friedrich Wertscha. And so you can see different visions
of Davakar after the whateverhappened in this world. I love I
love the idea that people can dothat. It reminds me of how they
talk about Glorantha in,

Mattias (43:42):
Oh, yeah.

Matthew (43:43):
In in in Runequest where I think even I mean,
everybody says it now, but I butI think it came from the source,
from Greg himself, was yourglorantha may vary, white b m y.
So so that's good to hear. Butbut the other thing you said,
which I just I'll sort of unpicka bit more. You said, well,

(44:06):
we're saying goodbye at the endof the, Phone of Thorns. Oh, but
you could also preorder thisbook about a little bit of the
Yeah.
Quite a a little bit of doublecar

Dave (44:14):
of double car.

Matthew (44:15):
Of double car. Of the ambulance. So I haven't quite
said goodbye.

Mattias (44:19):
No. And it's it's kind of a a a super difficult divorce
because no matter how much tietime I've spent in Dubikat, I it
it hasn't been a chore. I mean,the tricks, the the surprise
encounters and whatnot that youcome across when traveling in

(44:41):
Davoskar, are a bit of a hassle,but I can't help but feel that I
will I will belong in thatforest for the rest of my life.
And but but, I mean, it yeah.The the that story needed to
come to an end, and I and and Ialso think that for me and the

(45:06):
team, we need we need to exploresomething new just to build up
energy and whatnot again, feelthat I don't know.
It's it's part of life, I guess.At least for me, the first few

(45:29):
steps of something new arealways the most exciting.

Dave (45:35):
Yeah.

Mattias (45:36):
No matter if it's a new job or or a new writing project
or what whatnot, or indeed thethe making of new PC for a role
playing game. The first partwhere you where you get to know
that character and when theythey progress fairly quickly,

(45:59):
stats wise, that's that's that'sit it has its charm. And now we
haven't felt that charm inconnection to Zimmern for some
time because we have we havebeen working with this ginormous
project for, yeah, 8, 9 8, 9years.

Matthew (46:18):
Right. And before we move on to what's beyond Devakar
and the Enterprise, I just onemore bit of reflection on the
last 8 9 years. Yeah. What wouldyou have done differently if you
had to do the whole thing allover again?

Mattias (46:36):
Oh, It it it I I fully understand. I fully appreciate
that it sounds super arrogant toto

Dave (46:52):
say nothing. Nothing. But

Mattias (46:57):
I think we stayed through true to the plan, and
stayed the course. And it was afairly good plan. I mean,
similar fan wise and andrecognition wise and and whatnot

(47:17):
today compared to 8 years agois, of course yeah. It's pretty
much different. So something wedid something right.
Mhmm. Yeah. Apparently. And andI am super proud of what we have
done. The the the thing is thatsometimes I'm not to take

(47:38):
anything away from those heroicadventuring parties that
actually make it through all theway from Thistle to to the heart
of Davukar.
But sometimes I'm thinking thatif I've written a slightly
shorter chronicle, it would havemore people would have dared

(48:02):
venture down that road, so tospeak.

Matthew (48:04):
You know, you may be right there because

Mattias (48:07):
Yeah.

Matthew (48:08):
When when we worked the free league stand, we've never
sold much in the way of SimbaRoom, so much so that, actually,
it doesn't feature very often onthe stand unless it's huge
stock. And what we saw, I think,is people looking at I I
remember particularly one UKGames Expo where we had the
whole line of books there.Either people had already got it

(48:31):
and didn't eat it, or peoplethat were coming new to Cymbaloo
were kinda, woah. Where do Ieven start? I can't take all the
can't fit them in my suitcaseeven

Mattias (48:41):
No. To take it. I I know. And, the the thing is you
need you need a special salestactics to to work, Symblum or
or indeed Mutant as well, or oneof those games that we have so
many much stuff for. You have topoint us out the fact that we

(49:02):
are in fact talking about the,one in all core rule book.

Matthew (49:08):
You

Mattias (49:08):
only need one book to start playing. Then the other
thing is that I know it's soldout, in many places, so we don't
always have it. But we actually,one of the main reasons why we
did the SIM room starter set isprecisely for this reason. It is
a to give people an easy entrypoint into the setting. Because

(49:34):
I then would argue that the ideabehind the whole design of
Sympro as a game is the hopethat the art of matengrip and
the setting, and indeed themechanic, the the play facing

(49:54):
mechanic are enough or even, youknow, are incentives for people
to actually read a lot.
Not because they have to,because they want to. And we to.
Yeah. Yeah. And we see that.
We see that, quite a lot. Peoplewho who long because there there

(50:19):
are maybe I'm I'm I'mmisinformed here, but I have a
feeling that these massivecampaigns or in-depth projects
of of world building arebecoming few and far between.

(50:43):
Mhmm. Mhmm. More so than duringthe, eighties nineties and part
part of the after the turn ofthe millennium.
So so there there is some peoplewho actually enjoy reading a lot
of stuff and then playing for avery very long time the same

(51:05):
story.

Matthew (51:05):
Yeah.

Mattias (51:06):
And I'm so super happy that that's the case.

Matthew (51:09):
You got fans like that.

Mattias (51:11):
I mean, I'm one of those people. So but it's good
that there's more than one.

Matthew (51:18):
Okay. Right. Enough. Enough about the past. Yeah.
Tell us about the future.

Mattias (51:24):
Yeah. I should and this may maybe wrap things up. Maybe
it will be a very short talkbecause I do not have any
announcements, to make today.Okay. Simply because there is
nothing yet to announce.

Matthew (51:45):
That that's that's cool. That's cool.

Mattias (51:47):
But But we what I can say that we are have started
slowly but surely. We arewarming up the engine, so to
speak, and have started looking,started started working on the
next step. And what I canannounce today is that something

(52:10):
that I think I've spoken aboutthis previously in in some
context, we are looking west orsouthwest even to the what's
what's called the city states.Mhmm. And, we have started we

(52:32):
had actually our first reallyintense and longer meeting, me,
Matthias, Lilia, and MartinGriep, the other week when I was
down in Stockholm.

Dave (52:43):
Cool.

Mattias (52:44):
And then after that, we have gone our separate ways,
both of them living down inStockholm, as you well know, and
me up in Umio, and started ispercolating a word in English.

Matthew (53:00):
Yeah. Do you know where I'm being?

Mattias (53:02):
It's it's it's it's

Dave (53:03):
bubbling away slowly.

Mattias (53:05):
It's bubbling

Matthew (53:05):
away. Yeah. It's

Mattias (53:06):
Yeah. Sort of yeah. And, we have very high hopes
that we will be able to makeproper announcements, fairly
early next year.

Dave (53:22):
Okay.

Mattias (53:24):
And, exactly what I I have to come back to. But but
I'm fully prepared to try andanswer, some questions. I know
that your your your patrons havehave questions and whatnot.
Yeah. But in terms of specificreleases or something, that's

(53:45):
it's too early.
If I start saying stuff now andwe have to change things around,
it would be not good. So I cansay one thing, though, that is
probably of interest to people.We talked about Coriolis a while

(54:06):
ago. A while a few minutes ago.And whatever happens with
Syndrome will not be thatradical kind of, you know,

Dave (54:23):
not great talk. I was I was gonna ask because you you're
talking about sort of headingsouthwest and going to sort of
city states, which I'm assumingpresuming is taking you away
from the forest kind ofenvironment. Is that likely to
change the kind of thephilosophy behind the game a
little bit, or is it going to,just kind of give another angle

(54:44):
on on kind of the similarphilosophy of of the exploration
and the unknown and that kind ofstuff?

Mattias (54:51):
Yeah. I'm I'm I'm thinking that we we're we're
looking for, philosophically Imean, the thematics of the game,
will be recognizable. It willMhmm. Whatever happens, this
will be a new, campaign settingor point of departure, in the

(55:15):
existing Syndrome universe. And

Dave (55:18):
Right.

Mattias (55:18):
I think most certainly, we we will have some kind of, at
least from a design perspectiveand also have some guidelines
and whatnot in in in this newproduct, that will state that
this happens after the events ofthe throne of thorns. So it will

(55:42):
be on the same timeline as well.And it's far enough from the
Davuka region that the gamemaster and the gaming group
don't have to be afraid that,you know, whatever happened in
their world, they will be ableto have that reflected in

Dave (56:03):
Yeah.

Mattias (56:03):
This new. So the the rumors they hear about what is
happening up in in Umbria, ifthere even is such thing as an
Umbria in their game world afterthe throne of thorns, they will
hear the rumors that the gamemaster feel reasonable. So to

Dave (56:23):
speak. And there's nothing in the new game that is going to
cause any problems for any of

Mattias (56:27):
that No. Exactly.

Dave (56:28):
For whatever they've done with their previous campaigns.
Cool.

Mattias (56:32):
So that is definitely done. I meant but but but then,
also, of course, now we have wehave we have had, like, we have
had this ginormous hunt, coupledwith the the power struggles of
the factions, coupled with thethe wilderness of the the

(56:53):
mountains and particularly thefor forest, and we will try to
find find I I almost forgotten.Another huge aspect of the
throne of thorns is, of course,the the thematic around
corruption, and and and thehumans humankind's sort of part

(57:19):
in in, in awakening the the thebreath of of creation. And we
will need to find another way toto present that team, theme that
that makes it, play a bitdifferently. Because, otherwise,

(57:44):
what's the point?
Both from a design perspectiveand from a a player perspective,
you you have you have made itthrough the thorn of thorns. And
if you haven't, it will stillalways be there. Mhmm. I I mean,
for you to play if that that iswhat you want. In this case, we
will we will aim for something alittle bit more, a little bit

(58:09):
different.
And if I'm yeah. I was veryclose to going into specifics
there. And, again,

Dave (58:16):
that's Yeah. It's nearly. It's

Matthew (58:19):
at this stage. Got you. Well, now what? I mean, it's
it's

Mattias (58:25):
it's literally dangerous for Symbram if I say
too much right now. So pleaseforgive me.

Dave (58:31):
Yeah. We we understand. Yeah.

Matthew (58:32):
I I I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions
that

Mattias (58:35):
our our

Matthew (58:36):
patrons have asked us. Rumors. So think of think of
this as rumor control, ifanything. I'm gonna propose a
bunch of things, and you can say

Dave (58:47):
Yeah. The answer, no comment is okay if you must say
yes.

Mattias (58:50):
Thank you. Thank you.

Matthew (58:52):
So, so now you you you're indicating there, and I'm
gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna put onthat thread. You're you're
indicating there that there maybe a new rule system around
corruption in the way you'rereflecting that theme. Does this
mean Cymbalum Core Rules 2.0 orCymbalum Core Rules 1.5 Evolved.

(59:22):
Or Cymbalum Evolved.

Mattias (59:24):
No comment. No. Yes. We are looking at the rule set and
the packaging of the rule set aswell. But exactly what form it
will take, you will have to towait for that.
We're gonna have to wait to see.It will not be a 2.0 in the

(59:46):
sense that Coriolis is a 2.0.That that much I can say. But
more specific than that, it'sit's difficult to be. I mean, we
can talk about if people havequestions regarding what things
you are pondering of changingand whatnot.
I can I can try to reason,describe how we are reasoning,

(01:00:10):
but I will not be able today tosay that this rule or that
aspect of the rule system orwhatnot will definitely come to
look like this?

Matthew (01:00:21):
Okay. Okay.

Dave (01:00:22):
That's the that's fine because it's a it's the perfect
excuse for us to invite you backin a couple of months.

Matthew (01:00:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Dave (01:00:27):
And, you know, get the get the full information.

Matthew (01:00:30):
Right. So a couple of months is a timescale? Can't
can't help this. You must tellus first. As soon as, you know,
this is bumping into an actualconcrete plan, you gotta come
back on the show and tell ustell us about it.
I don't want that league loungegetting the scoop. No. Exactly.

Mattias (01:00:50):
Now maybe I can invite you as the guest host to the to
the lounge, and we can have sort

Matthew (01:00:55):
of We could we could live with that. We could live
with that. Okay. I've got someother questions, I say. So yeah.
No comment on, well, we don't

Mattias (01:01:04):
comment nonetheless. I'm I mean, I think that was a
comment. Yes. It was. It was forpeople to know that whatever
happens, they will not have todiscard all their existing
material because we are comingup with something totally new.
That that we will not allowthat.

Matthew (01:01:22):
No. But at the same time, you'll probably do
something I don't have to saywhat but an opportunity to
relaunch the Symbloon brand as awhole to a wider audience, do
you think? I

Mattias (01:01:38):
I we haven't gone that far in the discussion. Okay. But
I I mean, that would be thatwould be a good thing, I guess,
if that's where we stand there.Well, I was going to say
something. It slipped my mind.
It probably will pop up again.So Okay.

Matthew (01:01:59):
Well, our, our biggest Cymbal Room fan among our
patrons, I think, and also theeditor of our new role playing
game, Tales of the Old West.

Dave (01:02:10):
Someone you know very well, Neil Kingham.

Matthew (01:02:13):
Yeah. Neil is asking, does this mean well, I'll I'll
spread these questions out. Doesit mean new religions, first of
all?

Mattias (01:02:25):
Yes and no.

Matthew (01:02:26):
And Well,

Mattias (01:02:28):
it's not my comment. In the the new setting, you will
probably probably see newfactions. And I I am pretty sure
that the dominant position thatwe see in Umbria of the the the
Curia and the Church of Prius,it will not be represented at

(01:02:55):
all in the city states, butthere will be, I mean, there
would be religions, obviously.But maybe not in that dominant
position because that issomething that I love for
Ambria, but I'm not sure that weneed exactly that in in this new

Dave (01:03:17):
Right.

Matthew (01:03:18):
Setups. So his second second part

Dave (01:03:21):
of that

Matthew (01:03:21):
question, but, actually, I'm gonna present it
as a second question. Newmystical abilities?

Mattias (01:03:30):
Yes.

Matthew (01:03:33):
Oh.

Mattias (01:03:39):
I mean, this is this isn't a spoiler because it if
you have downloaded and read,report 2208 11, I think it's
called. It's a it's a freedownload PDF that you can, from

(01:04:01):
the Royal Secretorium, that youcan find on on our Cymbrem site
page, or you can find it, Ithink, on drive through as well.

Matthew (01:04:12):
We'll put a link in the show notes. Just tell me what
it's called again. The report.

Mattias (01:04:19):
Report 220811, I think it's called. I need to check it
up for you later. Okay. But it'sbut it's like an in in game

Matthew (01:04:28):
An in game date.

Mattias (01:04:29):
Document that which is sort of a a summary spy report
from the the Royal Secretoriumto the Queen's Council. And
there, you will find a report onthe city states where where they
talk about 2 things that has todo with with mystical abilities

(01:04:52):
to do. And one one of them isthat in in the city state of
Rufeld, they have have there arerumors about establishing of a a
new and very successful what doyou call it, school, maybe, for

(01:05:15):
for Al Alchemi. So that's onething. And and there there is
since way back when, also, allthese references to, you know,
the the the city states beingthe birthplace of the the
alchemical weapons and the thehuge fire tubes and and whatnot.

(01:05:36):
So so there is one at leastmagically related topic. The
other thing that is mentioned inthat report is something called
the astromancers orastromancers.

Matthew (01:05:51):
Astromancers. Yes.

Mattias (01:05:53):
And exactly what that is is I'm I'm I'm

Dave (01:05:59):
It's it's no comment.

Mattias (01:06:01):
Yeah. It's kind of no comment. And I would I would I
was going to say that it's underconstruction, but that is so
wrong. It's more like we arecurrently in the process of
discovering what that is.

Dave (01:06:17):
Right.

Mattias (01:06:19):
And and and that discovery ties into sort of the
discovery of everything elseabout that setting. So that's
why I cannot really comment onit yet.

Matthew (01:06:31):
Spoilers. That

Dave (01:06:32):
that sounds interesting. That sounds cool.

Matthew (01:06:35):
Right. Another question we have, and this is this is not
so much about the setting orgiving secrets. This is a very
present quote, in fact. Are wegonna see reprints of the
current stuff, particularly theDavakar Awakens maps?

Mattias (01:06:55):
Oh, I I'm super excited that people enjoy and use the
the the map packs because I lovethem. They are, however, a
hassle for retailers. Yeah. So,I'm I'm I'm for the the the 5 e

(01:07:21):
Kickstarter, when we did the theruins of Zimbron 5 ebooks, we
had one stretch goal was afolder. I don't know if I have
it here, but it's a folder thatbasically reprints and contains
all relevant maps

Matthew (01:07:40):
for

Mattias (01:07:40):
for the Davuka region and the throne of thorns books
and whatnot. And and maybe thatis something we will do going
forth in in in one way oranother. Then it would be, I
guess, a good idea to look overwhat because people can print

(01:08:06):
maps themselves if they can gethold of enough, you know, files
with decent, yeah, resolution.Yeah. So so we will definitely
try to to make it possible forthose who really enjoy these big
maps to not I I now never mindbecause this isn't on video.

(01:08:31):
I was going to show you the thebiggest, Simba map we have to
date, and it's like a tablecloth that is it's the, Davuka
region map, the world map, ifyou will, for the the the old
Davuka region. And it's like 6times 4 meters or something.

Matthew (01:08:54):
Oh, wow. Wow. It's lucky.

Mattias (01:08:56):
Yeah. It's like a bedspread. Okay. No. I need
that.
Sorry. That was a long andwinding answer to a

Matthew (01:09:06):
No. But but it's an interesting one. And you've
answered it fully, I think, for

Mattias (01:09:10):
for our,

Matthew (01:09:11):
our particular patron who asked that. It's Roland.
Yeah. And that I'm out ofquestions from the patrons,
Dave. You got any more?

Dave (01:09:21):
I I don't have any more on on, but before you go, once we
finish on, I do have a aquestion I'll be remiss to ask
not ask you with it whilst we'vegot you on.

Mattias (01:09:31):
Yeah.

Dave (01:09:32):
But, yeah, is there anything else on on we need to
we need to check?

Matthew (01:09:38):
So we're going to the city space.

Mattias (01:09:40):
Moving on.

Matthew (01:09:41):
Before moving on. Yeah. Are you so actually, let's just
cut back to, your your preorder.You've got the, what's it
called? Aggrella, the city ofeternal euphoria.
Are you seeing in the future anymore like that that do return to
Tabakar and detail another bitof it? Or is that Maguire is an

(01:10:06):
example to writers on, on thefeeding workshop?

Mattias (01:10:10):
Yeah. There isn't many more super exciting, locations
that isn't covered in either theadventure packs or stand alone
books like this one. I mean,there there are people have been
talking about a source bookabout the the clans or lots of

(01:10:34):
things like that. But from myperspective, not right now,
anyway. I mean, you should neversay never because one day when
I'm even older and even grayer,Chances are that I won't have
any hair when I'm that old, so Ishouldn't say gray, but bold.

(01:10:57):
Yeah. You'll never know. But, Ido think that a gorilla the Agri
Labook is a stand alone as amodel for a stand alone setting
and adventure module. We willsee that going forward. But we

(01:11:18):
because if we're not talkingabout the city states on the
Davakai region, there are lotsof other cool places that I
would like us to visit and foryou to be able to like, like
Freetown, for instance, or thethe the realm of the order.
I mean, there are you also hadthe eastern lands with with the

(01:11:41):
old ruins of Asparas that we arehinting that life is starting
anew in the in the in the placethat the humans first completely
devastated when they arrived inthe on this continent. So, yeah,
I I I think it's a really nicemodel model for for a source

(01:12:05):
book because it's like you havethe 20 or so pages for for
players to get acquainted, tofind their favorite, part of
town, their favorite place toeat and drink, and their
favorite characters that theyhave contacts with and whatnot.
And then you have this wholesection, 30, 40 pages of

(01:12:25):
adventure hooks and and secretsfor the game master to to to
develop into adventures of theirown. And, finally, a a 3 part
almost a campaign, but it's morelike a a a 3 act adventure. So

(01:12:45):
it's it's it's very much likeThistlehold or Carvoste or
indeed Indaros, but not tied tothe thromothrons.

Dave (01:12:54):
Yeah. Nice.

Matthew (01:12:56):
Pretty nice. And actually, just something you
said earlier I wanted toclarify. Did you say then that
this new setting that we'rewe're going to, the city states,
you're envisaging that running,Did you actually say that at the
same time as what's going on inDevakar? You said it's at

Mattias (01:13:14):
the same time. Suggestion is that it's it's,
placed after the event After

Dave (01:13:21):
the throne of thorns is finished.

Mattias (01:13:23):
Yeah. Theoretically, that part of the the world can
go down the drain, in in moreways than one. And and your
player characters can flee westYeah. And end up Yeah.

Matthew (01:13:40):
If they have caught an apocalypse and burned the entire
forest down, then here's a placethey can come to.

Mattias (01:13:46):
But I I I I still think that I mean, they can go to the
city states to retire to to helpwith whatever needs to be done
there, but keep keep playingthose high level not level, but
you know what I mean. Highlyexperienced characters Yeah.

(01:14:06):
Would probably

Matthew (01:14:07):
OP characters. That's what we call them.

Mattias (01:14:09):
Yeah. Would probably be not, be ideal. So and and, yeah.

Matthew (01:14:17):
Yeah. Cool. All sounds great. So I think I think that's
our stand on, SimbaRoom. So,Dave, the floor

Dave (01:14:23):
is Yeah. Yeah. So it, it would it would be remiss of me
if I didn't just ask, aboutanother of GMs that I absolutely
love, and The Walking Dead.

Mattias (01:14:33):
Oh, yeah.

Dave (01:14:33):
Is there is there anything how's, how how's that gone? Have
you been pleased with howWalking Dead has has landed and
what are there any plans oranything you can tell us about
for the future?

Mattias (01:14:44):
I am

Dave (01:14:45):
No comment.

Matthew (01:14:47):
No. No. No. No.

Mattias (01:14:47):
I am I am super happy with how it turned out and super
happy with how it has beenreceived. I think that we always
knew that it maybe wouldn't beour biggest seller in terms of
units sold, But it has gone, Imean, probably a bit better than

(01:15:14):
I thought. There is and and Ihope there are people out there
playing and loving it thataren't necessarily fans of the
TV series or, I mean, haven'teven watched it. But it's such a
it's such a super focused gamethat I think I think we yeah.

(01:15:43):
Maybe we could have provided alittle bit more material in in
some areas.
But in the end, it plays exactlyhow we envisioned it to play,
and that is a nice feeling.

Dave (01:15:57):
Yeah.

Matthew (01:15:57):
No. That's

Mattias (01:15:57):
And I think I think we one of the keys behind that is
that it is, very much a teameffort. Because Nilsson said did
the big major groundwork, and hewas part of the I mean, when
when me and Thomas togetherstarted working on that script,

(01:16:19):
we had him on the loop the wholetime. And and whenever we wanted
to had an idea of a biggerchange or we wanted to taste
something out and or whatever,as as is always is done in the
editing process when finalizinga game or a book or whatever. We

(01:16:42):
had a super creative discussionand a very focused goal on what
we wanted to achieve. And Ithink we did that.
Going looking to the future, Imean, it's it is a little bit
difficult because it feels likea a game that it should really
be played in campaign mode,without much more support than

(01:17:04):
the coreboot. But, again, sadly,I have no specific announcement
today, but we are working on weare working on something.

Matthew (01:17:18):
Yeah. You're working on something. That would that that
will be enough. I've seen somepeople, in social media. None of
our fans, I have to say.
But some people in social mediahave gone, oh, they appear to
have forgotten about The WalkingDead. Mhmm. But the fact that
you're working on somethingshould be

Mattias (01:17:37):
Enough. Useful. No. Yeah. Good.
Good. Good. No. I never yeah.

Dave (01:17:41):
I'm hoping you find out what you got.

Mattias (01:17:44):
No. We have we have this problem as as as Free
League now, that we have so many

Dave (01:17:53):
So many things.

Mattias (01:17:55):
That we love so much. Yeah. So and we we are spread,
you know,

Matthew (01:18:03):
thin

Mattias (01:18:04):
as as butter scraped over too much bread.

Dave (01:18:08):
Too much bread.

Mattias (01:18:11):
As as Bilbo would would have it.

Dave (01:18:13):
Yeah. You need to go for a long holiday, which you don't
come back from.

Mattias (01:18:18):
Yeah. Yeah. But we

Dave (01:18:20):
also reassure you on the, on on on the interest. So the
campaign that I run, I'm theonly one who's a fan of The
Walking Dead. Nobody else is afan or has even watched it, most
of them. And we're playing itbecause we I I I played The
Wolves Den with them

Matthew (01:18:37):
Yeah.

Dave (01:18:37):
In preparation for running it at UK Games Expo year before
last. And at the end of thesession, they all went, oh, can
we carry on with this? Becausethey loved it so much. So that
was really cool, and we've beenplaying that for a while. We're
just coming up to the big finalewhere they're all gonna get
killed, probably.
Well But,

Matthew (01:18:54):
That depends on whether Matthias can tell us whether
there's a sequel campaign.

Dave (01:19:02):
Yeah. Yeah. But it yeah. It's gone down really well. It's
it's, yeah, it's been reallygood fun to play.

Matthew (01:19:07):
Yeah. And I'm also thanking Douglas, one of our
patrons, who runs an afterschool group, it's one of the
most popular games that thatafter school group like to play
as well. So I think that'sreally interesting.

Mattias (01:19:18):
My heart. It warms my heart.

Dave (01:19:19):
Mhmm. Cool. Mhmm. Well,

Matthew (01:19:22):
I think then well, just one more question. Are there any
other secrets you can tell usabout anything else in the In
the world. Portfolio of No. Freeleague.

Dave (01:19:34):
Free league.

Mattias (01:19:35):
No. Of course not.

Dave (01:19:39):
Fair enough.

Matthew (01:19:40):
So professional.

Mattias (01:19:42):
Yeah. Well, no. I'm I'm, this is recorded when?
It's, like,

Matthew (01:19:47):
Monday or Thursday, but it will be coming out in about 2
weeks' time.

Mattias (01:19:52):
Yeah. So I can spoil that, by saying that by then,
you will, see some other coolstuff announced. Yeah.

Matthew (01:20:02):
Oh. Okay. All the freaking stuff at the moment is
like, oh, this this is coming.

Mattias (01:20:08):
There is no reason for me to to to announce or support
something here that will alreadyhave been revealed when you air
the

Dave (01:20:17):
By the time we put this in, sure. Fair enough. Right.
Well, thank you so much,Matthias. It's been fabulous
having you on again as always.

Mattias (01:20:27):
Super fun.

Dave (01:20:29):
And definitely drag you back on again yet again Yeah. In
the in the next few months soyou can talk about, Simba Room
when you have more to say.

Mattias (01:20:36):
Yeah. Maybe maybe Walking Dead as well. You never
know. Yeah.

Dave (01:20:40):
Cool. Excellent.

Matthew (01:20:41):
We're always happy to hear from you, Matthias.

Dave (01:20:44):
Indeed. It's a it's a real pleasure.

Mattias (01:20:48):
Yeah. It's been a blast.

Dave (01:20:49):
Great pleasure to talk to Matthias. Every time you see
him, it's a real, real blast.He's such a lovely guy. He's,
you know, even even before wefirst met him, he was he was a
lovely guy in helping us, youknow, meet up with Matthias and
and Martin in into Stockholmwhen he was up in Urmeo. And
fabulous to hear what he's gotlined up and some other sort of

(01:21:09):
things he's not prepared to tellus.
Hopefully, he'll tell us in thenew year.

Matthew (01:21:13):
Yeah. We hopefully should get an exclusive from
him. So, let's let's see if wecan beat the league lounge to
whatever news. He has to say I'dlike to,

Dave (01:21:24):
I suspect.

Matthew (01:21:25):
When it's official.

Dave (01:21:26):
Yeah. Indeed. But, yeah, always a pure pleasure to speak
to Matthias. So, yeah. Lookforward to that.
Cool.

Matthew (01:21:32):
Right. We have overrun. This is gonna be a longer
episode than I planned. So weshould move quickly to talk
about what we're doing in thenext episode, which will come to
you in the far flung future of2025.

Dave (01:21:48):
It will. And there's the clue, isn't it? So we are going
to do a review of the year, andwe're gonna invite along some of
our fabulous patrons, whoeverwants to come along and talk to
us. And we'll have a presumablya rambling, but insightful chat
about everyone's favorite stufffor 2024. So that's Yeah.

Matthew (01:22:10):
Not you, Andy. I want to keep this quite tight.

Dave (01:22:12):
I know. I know. But you you know what it's like. It
might take a bit of bit ofmagical editing. But yeah.
So that'll be great. And, that'sit's also, you know, really easy
content for us.

Matthew (01:22:24):
Yeah. Please. Yeah. That and the the Christmas
holiday episode.

Dave (01:22:29):
Yeah. Which means we get a Christmas holiday.

Matthew (01:22:32):
Yeah. Okay. So let's look forward to that. But in the
meantime, I think to everybodycelebrating Christmas or any
other winter festival that takesyour fancy, or enjoying
midsummer if you're in thesouthern hemisphere, then then
have fun. And Yep.

Dave (01:22:50):
Merry Christmas, everyone, and happy new year. And, yeah.
Enjoy the day.

Matthew (01:22:56):
It's goodbye from me.

Dave (01:22:57):
And it's goodbye from him.

Mattias (01:23:00):
May the icons bless your adventures.

Dave (01:23:05):
You have been listening to the effect podcast presented by
fiction suit and the RPG gods.Music stars on a black sea used
with permission of freelypublishing.

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