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April 30, 2025 11 mins

What happens when a loved one suddenly needs nursing home care and you've done absolutely no prior planning? The financial devastation can be overwhelming, but according to elder law attorneys Greg and Jordan McIntyre, all hope is not lost.

This father-son legal team walks through the stark reality of crisis planning for long-term care. They contrast the difficult path of guardianship proceedings—which require court oversight, hearings, and months of legal work—with the protection offered by properly drafted powers of attorney. As Jordan explains, "If there's a limitation on the gifting provision, it could hinder my ability to protect assets." Not all legal documents are created equal, and standard forms rarely contain the specific provisions needed for effective asset protection.

For married couples facing nursing home placement, the McIntyres offer particular hope. Even without prior planning, strategies exist to implement the "community spouse resource allowance" and other legal mechanisms that can preserve significant assets for the healthy spouse. They explain how the rules allow for protecting your home and savings while still qualifying for benefits you've paid for through years of tax contributions. As Greg notes, "The real power is being able to know the rules so well that you operate out in the open... within our rules that we allow."

The attorneys emphasize that crisis planning isn't about hiding assets but working strategically within established legal frameworks. While proactive planning always offers the most protection, their practice includes a dedicated department for helping families in emergency situations. Whether you're planning ahead or facing an immediate care need, understanding these legal strategies could save everything you've worked for. Schedule a free consultation to learn how proper planning can protect your family's financial future.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Say Siri stop.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Greg McIntyre , the Elder Law Guy.
We're going to talk about whathappens if you need to go to
nursing home care.
You need to have a long-termcare health situation and you
aren't prepared.
You've done no prior planningwhatsoever.
Jordan, if you sit down with aclient and they have done no

(00:24):
prior planning whatsoever, theydon't have powers of attorney
and you're sitting down with thespouse of someone who has gone
in long-term care, what is youradvice?
What is your?

Speaker 1 (00:42):
advice At that point.
If there are no powers ofattorneys, I might be looking
into potential guardianship totry to save some assets and do a
benefits application, or we'rejust going to do a traditional
spin down.
But if if the individuals aremarried, I can save a certain

(01:02):
amount for the spouse it'scalled the community spouse
resource allowance.
There's ways where I cantransfer some assets and still
get the individual who needscare and qualified for Medicaid.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
You're really, really too hype right now.
I'm going to need you to dialdown the coffee a little bit.
Dial down the caffeine intake.
I agree, I'm just kidding withyou, son.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
you've been hard at work today yes seeing clients
doing doing legal work I've beenhard work out this morning too
hard workout this morning,jordan.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
You get up at what like four or five o'clock in the
morning every morning, everyday.
I would suggest staying upwatching television to at least
midnight to 2 am and thensleeping to at least seven.
That's what your mom makes meand we work out in the evenings
she's not the only one thatmakes you do that.

(01:58):
You do that anyways I like doingthe morning.
Sometimes, though, we need Ineed to get on Jordan's morning
program, but what Jordan says isexactly correct.
I would agree with you.
No-transcript to have aconversation with a client, that

(02:19):
guardianship is needed, courtproceedings guardianship is
needed.
We've got to prepare, we've gotto go to hearings.
We're kind of under courtoversight.
If that's not what we want tohappen, how do we avoid that?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Get a general, durable power of attorney.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
General, durable on the financial and legal side.
We proactively can appoint theperson we want to handle it For
our family.
For me it's your mom, this ismy primary and you are my
secondary, my oldest son.
So lots of responsibility there.
You're the successor Agent.
But then what about thehealthcare side?

(02:56):
Healthcare and placement.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
You would want to get that as well.
Right, if you only have ageneral, durable power of
attorney but you want to makesome health care decisions, you
would still have to go getguardianship, to be what's
called guardian of the person,or you could make health care
decisions.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
If you avoid that, you don't want a health care
power of attorney in place whichis totally separate than the
financial and legal power ofattorney which is called the
general durable power ofattorney.
Right, yes, and a separate partof the statute.
So you know it's very different.
We can avoid those thingsreally at very low cost compared
to a guardianship, and withoutcourt interference or oversight

(03:35):
it has to, or the time it takesto go through the guardianship
process, which can take a coupleof months in full.
So guardianships can becontested, right.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yes, there's no guarantee that you'll be
appointing the guardian.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
No this is a guarantee that you're appointing
the person that you want tohandle your affairs.
You know, I might have a sonwho's a really smart attorney
and I'm going to appoint him tohandle my financial affairs and
legal affairs.
I might have a daughter whobecomes a doctor or nurse and I
might appoint her to handle myhealth care affairs.
Right, it's just you pick thepeople that are right in your

(04:13):
life and it's your choice thatway when you sit down, if you
sit down with that child,there's there, let's say, you
sit down with the wife.
The husband's gone into nursinghome care.
She's afraid she's going tolose everything the retirement,
the house, if that spouse has afully well-written just know

(04:37):
powers of attorney are not allcreated equal.
What's written in the power?
of attorney equals the powersyou're actually giving someone
else.
People don't understand that.
They work themselves intocorners or with restrictions
they're unaware of because theydon't read the power of attorney
they have.
They don't understand.
So if you have a robust, youtrust the person who you

(04:59):
appointed power of attorneygeneral, durable power of
attorney who you appointed powerof attorney general, durable
power attorney and a healthcarepoverty.
It covers everything, includinga hipaa authorization and
mental health care provisionswritten in everything.
You're sitting down with that.
Now what would you advise?

Speaker 1 (05:16):
well, you're talking about how all powers of
attorneys aren't the same.
I'm going to go look at thosegifting provisions under
whatever power of attorney theyhave.
Hopefully they got it done withus.
You know we tailor ourdocuments to look ahead for
these situations so that theagent under the power of
attorney isn't limited right.
But if there's a limitation onthe gifting provision it could

(05:38):
hinder my ability to protectassets over that amount.
It's going to be more difficult.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Sure, but if I properly put the powers of
attorney in place, it's going tobe a conversation as to okay,
let's see what benefit isavailable Under the benefits
rules.
How can we protect these assetsfor the use and benefit of the
healthy spouse, for example, andthen qualify the other spouse

(06:06):
for a benefit Because thehealthy spouse might have many
healthy years to live, and we dothat all the time If we're
sitting down with someone whohas no planning.
We're going to still try towork it through.
We're going to see what optionsthere are.
Even under a guardianship, wecan go that route.
We're going to still try towork it through.
We're going to see what optionsthere are.
Even under a guardianship, wecan go that route.
We're going to be able topetition the court for our

(06:26):
version of how to protect theassets and qualify for the
benefit.
But that's a separate part ofthat.
Proceeding After theguardianship is concluded,
guardianship letters have beenissued which appoints the
guardian.
Then we're going to startpetitioning the court for what
we want to do.
Proceeding after theguardianship is concluded,
guardianship letters have beenissued which appoints the
guardian.
Then we're going to startpetitioning the court for what
we want to do and a guardian cansign a ladybird on a house to

(06:49):
protect the house.
That is a gray area, but aguardian I would say it's a
black and white area, becausethere's no transfer of the asset
until the person passes awayand at that point it's out from
under the jurisdiction of theguardianship of state when the
transfer happens.
So again, it is important toplan ahead.

(07:18):
But if you're in an emergencysituation we have an entire
department that is built forthat.
We go into that mode and westart planning to help the
family.
Our goal is to help you protectyour hard-earned money and
property, and we're talking tosomebody who works hard.

(07:40):
This young man right here isequally as hard a worker as I am
, if not more, and is the mostsolid, steady, reliable,
trustworthy person I've ever met.
Thank you, you're welcome.
When we're working hard, we'retaking care of our family, we're

(08:04):
trying to hold on to a littlebit of our money.
After we pay taxes, buy a home,raise children, it'd be nice to
be able to not have to lose itall because we have to access a
benefit that we already paid formany times over with our tax
dollars, or lose our house afterwe've already paid three times

(08:26):
as much as we bought it for tothe bank for a mortgage over 30
years.
That's the system you're in,realize it or not.
Take the blue pill or take thered pill.
I would say, get out of thematrix that you think you're in.
The key is to know the rules.
Even in that movie, the guy whois the hero one which is just a

(08:50):
misspelling of Nick was hisname Nia.
Yeah, so, yeah, same letters.
He just need the system, andthat's the thing you're never
hiding asking you're never notshowing everyone around you
exactly what you're doing.
the real power is to be able toknow the rules so well that you

(09:14):
operate out in the open and andshow everyone exactly what you
did and they're like oh I seewhat you did there within our
rules, that we allow and that'sthe only way we operate.
You need to operate.
In order to do that, you needguidance.
Come see myself or the verylearned young man there, jordan

(09:34):
McIntyre.
Jordan, would you offer a freeconsult?

Speaker 1 (09:41):
I would.
I think this is one of myfavorite areas of our practice.
It's a lot of math, but thenalso I feel like I'm really
helping people protect theirproperty.
I think there's multiple waysfor me to solve these puzzles
and really figure out how am Igetting somebody the assistance
they need during their life andthen passing all their assets

(10:02):
onto their loved ones?
So this is really probably myfavorite area of our practice.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
It's very much like a game.
It's very strategic under therules, so it's super cool to be
able to do that and to be ableto have that as a really robust
part of our practice.
So give us a call If you'd liketo schedule that console.
Our number is 1-888-999-6600.

(10:27):
Or you can schedule directly onour calendars at mcelderlawcom
slash schedule.
Thank you.
Thank you, jordan, appreciateit.
Thank you, dan.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
See you next week.
Bye, bye, bye, bye.
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