Sam Altman’s Merge Labs Explores Gene Therapy for Brain-AI Interface

Sam Altman is backing Merge Labs, a new brain-computer interface venture exploring a gene therapy approach to connect human brains with AI. The company is considering genetically modifying brain cells to respond to ultrasound, enabling a less invasive implant system. Merge is currently raising $250 million at an $850 million valuation, with major backing expected from OpenAI’s venture arm. This move positions Altman in direct competition with Elon Musk’s Neuralink, which uses electrode-based implants. Merge’s approach combines sonogenetics and embedded ultrasound hardware, aiming for high-bandwidth communication between thought and AI systems. Altman is co-founding the project but won’t take a day-to-day role or personally invest.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Elon Musk
Podcast. This is a show where we discuss
the critical crossroads, the Shape, SpaceX, Tesla X, The
Boring Company, and Neurolink. I'm your host Will Walden.
Sam Altman is working on a brainchip venture that may try
something no major competitor has attempted before, changing

(00:26):
how brain cells work using gene therapy.
Merge Labs, which is the startupassociated with Altman and Open
AI's venture arm, is consideringa method that would genetically
alter brain cells so they can better interface with implanted
technology, People familiar withthe plans say.
This includes using ultrasound to communicate with those

(00:48):
altered cells. Now the goal is to build a brain
computer interface that allows seamless interaction between
human thought and AI tools like ChatGPT, Altman said publicly.
He wants to be able to think something and get a ChatGPT
response without needing to speak or type, you know?
This idea sits far outside what companies like Neurolink

(01:10):
currently focus on. Elon Musk's firm is pushing
forward with electrode based implants that read and stimulate
brain activity electronically. And Neurolink raised $650
million this year and now holds a valuation of $9 billion.
Merge Labs wants to go a different direction, though,
tapping into sonogenetics, whichis a research field that studies

(01:33):
how to make cells respond to ultrasound through genetic
engineering. Sonogenetics isn't a new field,
but using it in a commercial brain chip product would be a
major leap forward. Researchers have spent years
exploring how cells can be sensitized to sound waves.
Merge is evaluating whether genetherapy can make specific

(01:54):
neurons react predictably to ultrasound, which could then be
used to send and receive brain signals.
This method may allow less invasive implants, since
ultrasound can pass through tissues more easily than
electrical signals. The hardware involved would also
break new ground. Sources say that Merge is
looking at embedding an ultrasound device into the human

(02:15):
skull to work with the modified brain tissue.
This setup could allow for real time detection and control of
neurological activity without relying on wires or probes
inserted deep inside of your brain.
And if this technology ends up working, it may enable smoother
interaction between the brain and digital systems, with fewer
physical risks than traditional electrodes.

(02:38):
Now, Open AI has not confirmed the details publicly, though,
and Altman said the deal has notbeen finalized.
Still, Altman's presence around the project is very visible.
He plans to Co found the company, though he will not take
an operational role or personally invest in it.
Much of the early funding, expected a total $250 million,

(02:58):
will come from Open a Eyes venture.
Arm Merge is currently valued at850 million, according to three
people with direct knowledge of the funding talks.
Altman is working on the projectalongside Alex Blania, who
currently leads Worldcoin, whichis a separate venture that uses
iris scans to verify digital identities.

(03:21):
Blania has close ties to Almond through Worldcoin, another
project backed by Opening Eye leadership.
Altman previously invested in Musk's Neuralink, but the two
entrepreneurs are now not quite friends, and they're now
competing head to head in the brain interface space.
The rivalry escalated after Musksued Open AI for straying from
its original nonprofit mission. Now brain computer interface, or

(03:44):
BCI, companies are multiplying, but few are pursuing the path
Merge appears to be taking. Nerlink is still the most high
profile BCI company and has begun human testing for treating
paralysis. Others like Precision
Neuroscience and Synchron focus on non invasive or semi invasive
implants designed to assist people with neurological
disorders. These companies rely on reading

(04:06):
electrical signals from the brain, often requiring surgical
insertion of electrodes. Emerge stands out by potentially
combining genetic engineering with ultrasound, aiming for a
system that works through acoustic stimulation of modified
brain tissue. That route could avoid problems
associated with electrodes like scar tissue or long term signal
degradation. However, it could also take

(04:29):
years before the safety and reliability of this approach is
proven in humans, and the technology will require
overcoming major scientific hurdles, particularly around
targeted gene delivery and long term tissue response.
Ultrasound has gained momentum in neuroscience research as a
non evasive way to influence brain activity.
Start-ups like Nudge in Others, backed by investors including

(04:52):
Fred ESM and Reed Hoffman, are developing helmets that are
focused on using ultrasound to stimulate specific brain
regions. These devices are aimed at
treating psychiatric disorders without implants, and Merge
would be among the first to pursue implanted ultrasound
combined with cell modification.Now, Open AI has not officially

(05:15):
commented on its role in the Merge product.
However, the company's venture fund is expected to provide a
large share of the capital needed to bring the project to
life. And if successful, Merge could
redefine how humans interact with AI systems, bypassing
screens and keyboards for something closer to direct
thought transmission. And it's still an early

(05:38):
development, and the gene therapy approach could shift or
be scrapped, depending on technical feasibility.
And But for now, Altman is backing a plan that challenges
the standard brain chip road mapby blending genetics, sound, and
computing. Hey, thank you so much for
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(06:00):
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(06:22):
tomorrow.