ERP 480: Understanding Pathological Partners: How to Break Free from Toxic Relationships — An Interview with Dr. Nadine Macaluso

About this Episode

When love turns toxic, it can be almost impossible to see clearly through the confusion, self-doubt, and emotional chaos that follow. If you've ever found yourself trapped in a cycle of hope, heartbreak, and uncertainty within a relationship, you’re not alone—and there’s a reason why breaking free can feel so overwhelming. The hidden dynamics of pathological partnerships and trauma bonds often keep people stuck, questioning their worth, and struggling to understand why things never seem to get better.

In this episode, listeners are offered insight and validation as the conversation unpacks the complex nature of trauma bonds and toxic relationships. You’ll discover how these destructive patterns form, what psychological traits might make someone more susceptible, and why distinguishing between harmful behaviors and truly pathological intentions is so important. With practical guidance and real-life examples, this episode shines a compassionate light on the path toward healing, empowerment, and, for those who need it most, a way out.

Affectionately known as Dr. Nae, Dr. Nadine Macaluso is a therapist specializing in trauma healing and personal transformation. Her life inspired the character Naomi Belfort in The Wolf of Wall Street. After overcoming personal challenges, she earned a Master's degree in counseling and a Ph.D. in Somatic Psychotherapy. Dr. Macaluso helps individuals recover from trauma bonds, C-PTSD, and shame. She is also the author of Run Like Hell: A Therapist's Guide to Recognizing, Escaping, and Healing From Trauma Bonds.

Check out the transcript of this episode on Dr. Jessica Higgin's website.

Episode Highlights 

06:28 Dr. Nadine Macaluso’s personal journey and the roots of her work on trauma bonds.

09:49 Defining trauma bonds and the role of intermittent reinforcement in toxic relationships.

13:35 Intent, power imbalance, and the pathological partner in trauma bonds.

16:11 Pathological intent vs. reactive behaviors and repair.

19:20 Understanding Cluster B personality disorders and their impact on relationships.

21:23 Empowering the victim over diagnosing the pathological partner.

24:11 Who is most susceptible to trauma bonds?

28:16 Questioning labels: Codependency, attachment, and rethinking victim narratives.

32:34 Attachment styles, developmental trauma, and their role in toxic relationships.

34:31 Cultural myths about love, media influence, and the hope that keeps people stuck.

37:20 Reducing shame, cognitive dissonance, and reconnecting with self.

42:47 The process of leaving: Safety, planning, and overcoming guilt.

44:30 Post-traumatic growth: Finding strength, hope, and empowerment after leaving a toxic relationship.

Mentioned

Run Like Hell (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Women Who Love Psychopaths (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Big 5 Personality Quiz 

Essentia’s website (*Affiliate link)

Stratami™ Organic Mattress (This is the mattress we purchased) (*Affiliate link)

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