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September 30, 2025 13 mins

The UN is gearing up for COP30 in Brazil, where global elites will once again lecture the world about “climate catastrophe.” But behind the rhetoric lies hypocrisy: bulldozing the Amazon to host the event, while new science shows the rainforest is actually thriving thanks to carbon dioxide.

In this interview, Heartland Institute President James Taylor explains why the U.S. should refuse to participate, how the global climate agenda is really about power and redistribution, and why so-called “green” energy sources like wind and solar are neither clean, affordable, nor reliable.

Heartland will be in Brazil as the unofficial American delegation—bringing facts the UN won’t share.

👉 Learn more at https://heartland.org

👉 Explore the Affordable, Reliable, Clean Scorecard: Heartland Institute Scorecard


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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining us is the president of the Heartland

(00:02):
Institute, James Taylor, not themusician, but the very esteemed
gentleman. Perhaps we will gethim to sing at the end of this
if we're kind to him, but ifnot, it'll be up to him. Mister
Taylor, welcome to the show.Thanks for joining us.

James Taylor (00:19):
Hey, Kayla. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
You're welcome. Thank you for for coming. And I didn't
mean to be too pithy about yourname, but I feel like if I don't
add humor to this kind of stuff,I'll cry. Because it's just one
thing after another when itcomes to climate change. What
about

James Taylor (00:39):
when I was young and single, it came in handy, so
there's nothing to go pilot thisfor.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Fabul I'm so glad to hear that. Congratulations, sir.
Well, let's talk about thissummit. This UN climate
conference is coming up. It's aCOP thirty.
And your organization, theHeartland Institute, has
actually signed on to a, a jointletter with a number of other
groups, including the AmericanEnergy Institute, the Committee
for a Constructive Tomorrow,lots of other other, groups. And

(01:09):
you've sent it to the secretaryof the interior, Doug Burgum,
the EPA administrator, LeeZeldin, among others. You're
saying that The United Statesshould not send a delegation a
delegation to the UN COP thirtyclimate summit coming up in
Brazil. Tell us what the COPthirty climate summit is, and
tell us why you think we shouldskip it.

James Taylor (01:32):
Yeah. So COP thirty, COP thirty, this is a
it's an annual event. This isthe thirtieth time they've done
it. The United Nations, theyselect some extravagant locale
and an exotic destination whereall the bureaucrats from the UN
and from various governments andall the NGOs that like to

(01:54):
lecture us about how we'redestroying the planet through
carbon dioxide emissions. Theychoose a place where they can
all get on their jets and flyall over the world to have a
nice confab, even though Zoomwould do fine.
And so this year, it's in Bali,Brazil. It's in the Amazon
Rainforest. And, you know, it'samazing because they chose

(02:15):
Brazil and not Rio, but Balinfor a reason. They wanted to
highlight what they say is howcarbon dioxide emissions,
climate change is destroying theAmazon. This has been something
that has been a talking pointfor climate activists for
decades.
And what's amazing, first ofall, is just this week, a peer

(02:38):
reviewed study published in thepeer reviewed journal Nature
Plants. Over 100 scientistsauthored the the paper. And what
they found is that in the Amazonrainforest, directly as a result
of carbon dioxide emissions,trees are growing substantially
thicker in their tree trunk, inthe diameter of the tree trunk,

(02:59):
and they're growing much taller.In other words, trees in the
Amazon love carbon dioxide. Andit stands to reason because
carbon dioxide's plant food.
That's what people pump intogreenhouses when they want to
grow plants, flowers, fruits,vegetables. So number one, right
when they're having this thisclimate conference to talk about
how climate change is destroyingthe Amazon rainforest, we know

(03:20):
for a fact that just theopposite is happening. The
Amazon Rainforest is thrivingbecause of carbon dioxide
emissions. Point number two, youmentioned earlier how despite
all the billions of dollars thathave been funneled into the high
speed rail pipe dream inCalifornia, not a single inch of
rail has been built. You knowwhat has been built?
In Mhmm. In Brazil, through theoutskirts of Boliv, the

(03:44):
Brazilian government hasleveled, has bulldozed literally
tens of thousands of acres ofthe Amazon Rainforest to build a
road so that all the NGOparticipants and bureaucrats can
have better transportation, moreroads to get them to and from
the venue. They're literallykilling the rainforest that

(04:06):
they're pledging to create, andthey know they know not to build
rail, which would have feweremissions and which if you
believe all the hype aboutpublic transportation, no. They
built a road. So it's amazingthe hypocrisy going on.
So we at the Heartland Institutewith other organizations, we
sent a letter to the Trumpadministration and key
personnel. So this isridiculous. The best thing you

(04:27):
can do for the AmazonRainforest, the best thing you
can do for the climate changeconcern, you really think it is
a concern, if not, is justsimply not to send anybody.
Because all the other nations inthe world are spewing carbon
dioxide into the atmosphere.It's not a bad thing, but they
they preach to us about it.
They're spewing all the carbondioxide emissions. They're
causing the bulldozing of therainforest for this event, and

(04:51):
it's for absolutely no goodpurpose.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
It does feel like it would be a bit of a flex if we
didn't go, you know, to say, youknow, no. We're we're not going
to waste these, you know well,just to use their language,
we're not gonna waste thesethese carbon emissions and, you
know, we're we're looking afterthe environment. And I it feels

(05:16):
like that would sort of be athumb in the eye of the
international community. Whatwould it gain us to go?

James Taylor (05:24):
Well, it gains us nothing other than perhaps
highlighting the fact that theso called climate crisis is a
town job as president Trumpsaid. This is a grift. The
members of the United Nations,very high ranking officials have
said straight up, this is notabout climate change. It's about
redistributing the world'sresources. It's a Trojan horse
for international socialism andtaking money and power from

(05:46):
nations that honor freedom andare prosperous and giving it to
the dictatorships, to theauthoritarian governments that
don't have market economies, andtheir economies are failing as a
result.
But what we do offer at theHeartland Institute, you
mentioned these other groups,CFACT and others that have
signed on, We will be going.Heartland, we're gonna send a
delegation. We're gonna team upwith CFACT and a few others. So

(06:07):
we offer to be the unofficialAmerican delegation. Now the
reason we're going is because,first of all, we we realize that
our carbon dioxide emissionsflying to Brazil are actually
benefiting the environment, notharming it.
And second, we can rattle thecage of the UN establishment,
which we do at these conferencesevery year, pointing out facts,
inconvenient facts that they'renot going to mention in their

(06:28):
press releases, such as thebulldozing of the rainforest for
this conference, such as thefact that the Amazon rainforest
is scientifically provenbenefiting from carbon dioxide
emissions. So really, why setwhy spend all the taxpayer
dollars to go to Berlin, tolisten to the UN rail about how
everybody else needs tosacrifice and is causing climate

(06:48):
change when they're the onesthat are doing the most harm?

Speaker 1 (06:52):
What were your thoughts, James, on the on
president Trump's address to theUN? He did talk about climate
change and the green energyscam, and he was very blunt
about it. He was very bluntabout a lot of things in that
speech. But one of the one ofthe things that stood out to me,
I'm the I I'm the daughter ofgodless hippies. That's why I

(07:13):
was raised.
Like, my mom's a bigenvironmentalist. We were always
protesting. When I was growingup, it was just a thing. I just
was raised to be terrified ofacid rain, all of that. So this
climate change stuff is reallynear and dear to my heart.
And when I became aconservative, it was one of the
biggest relief, like, reliefs tofind out that, oh, no. The
planet isn't actually dying. Ithat was such a big relief to

(07:37):
me, but it I I think and whatwhat Trump really talked about
how Europe is killing themselveswith their commitment to green
energy even as they're having tobuy oil and gas from places like
China and Russia. And he wasvery blunt about it, and, of
course, he's been verystraightforward about his goals
to bring America back to coaland natural gas and all of those

(08:01):
the big energy giants. What didyou think about his his comments
at the UN?

James Taylor (08:08):
They were fantastic. Listen. Donald Trump,
47, is he he his eyes are wideopen. Donald Trump, president
number 45, thought that it wasimportant to try to get the
world to like him. He did manywonderful things, but he he
wasted some opportunities, Ithink, because he was okay.

(08:28):
For good intent, he was tryingto say, hey. I'm gonna reach out
across the aisle. I'm going tobuild bridges. I'm going to try
to get other nations to like meand all that. The fact of the
matter is, the other nations,the socialist nations, the
globalist nations, and theUnited Nations are always going
to hate anything that DonaldTrump does.
This time around, he said, no.I'm gonna call it like it is,

(08:48):
and that's what he's doing. Andespecially regarding energy. So,
you know, oftentimes, we hearthe term, and the left has
conditioned people to refer towind and solar power as either
clean energy or green energylike it's environmentally
friendly. It's simply not thecase.
Every energy source has its ownenvironmental impacts, and many

(09:11):
are unique to the particularenergy source. Wind power and
solar power. The climate changeactivists, the wind power
industry, the solar powerindustry, they want people to
believe that the onlyenvironmental issue that matters
is carbon dioxide emissions. Butback when your parents were
growing up, the biggest issuewas land conservation, species
protection, clean water, cleanair. Now we at the Heartland

(09:34):
Institute, we published a study.
It's called the affordable,reliable, clean scorecard.
Listeners, do an Internetsearch. Heartland Institute
affordable, reliable, clean. Andwe break down as objectively as
possible. We give a scorecardfor affordability, reliability,
and environmental impact, theclean impact.
What we found is that wind powerand solar power, not only are

(09:55):
they the most expensive and theleast reliable, they're also the
worst for the environment whenyou factor in the entire
spectrum of environmentalissues. Okay. They don't have
air emissions, carbon dioxideemissions. But you have to for
example, for wind turbines, ifwe were to replace conventional
energy for electricity with windpower, we would have to cover

(10:15):
literally one third of theAmerican land mass with wind
turbines. That would destroyforests, open plains, entire
ecosystems, species, etcetera.
For the manufacture and refiningof wind turbines and solar
panels, you have to engage insubstantial large scale mining
of rare earth minerals. And themining of rare earth minerals is
the most environmentallydestructive practice on the

(10:38):
planet. That includes all sortsof water and soil pollution,
etcetera. So really, what DonaldTrump is doing is he's called
out people, first of all, forpretending that energy sources
like wind and solar areaffordable. They're not.
There's a reason why Californiahas the highest electricity
prices in the country. There's areason why European energy cry
prices, electricity pricesaverage about three times more

(10:59):
expensive than ours. But he'salso called out this fake notion
of a climate crisis. And whatwe're doing is we are trashing
our environment in so many waysthrough wind and solar power
under the guise of thisfictitious clean, green, wind,
solar power to reduce carbondioxide emissions. Really, all
we're doing is we're trashingour own country in the process.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Agreed. What do you think before I let you go, what
do you think the odds are of theadministration taking your
advice and bowing out?

James Taylor (11:31):
I think it's pretty decent. I suspect right
now, they're having an internaldiscussion. And I think they're
thinking on the one hand, ifwe're there, we can call
attention like Donald Trump didat the United Nations. We can
call attention to this globalwarming scam. On the other hand,
it makes a point to say we'renot going to be there and
participate.
We encourage them not toparticipate. We'll be there. The

(11:51):
Heartland Institute will bethere rattling cages. We can
serve as the unofficial Americandelegation. But whether they're
there or not, the Trumpadministration has been
fantastic, especially in Trump'47, about calling things the
way they are.
So congratulations, DonaldTrump. Keep it up.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah. I would love it for you I would love for them to
see that we roll deep here inThe US. We don't have to send
the a team over. We don't haveto send the White House over.
America is filled with ateamers.
Like, you should be scared ofeverybody. I love it. James,
thank you for stopping by. Tellpeople where they can find the

(12:29):
Heartland Institute online andfollow you so we can see how
this whole thing goes.

James Taylor (12:35):
Alright. Well, you can find this online at
heartland.org, heart,land.org.And please look forward to an
Internet search for HeartlandInstitute affordable, reliable,
clean scorecard. You'll get allthe information that I was just
telling you about. You'll haveall the backup citations,
etcetera, to know it's true.

(12:55):
And finally, Kara, it's justbeen a it's been a pleasure.
Thank you for having me on.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
It's my pleasure. I guess I'm gonna let you get out
of here without a song, butthat's okay. If you go to the
climate summit, you can make upfor it.

James Taylor (13:08):
I will do that. I'll sing in Portuguese for the
Brazilians.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
That sounds great. Thanks, James. You take care.
God bless you out there.

James Taylor (13:17):
You too.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Thank James Taylor, the president of the Heartland
Institute.
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