How to go from hero to zero, with Emmanuel Macron and Angela Merkel

French President Emmanuel Macron has gone from “Mr. Europe” eight years ago to the solitary man by the Seine. At the same time, ex-German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s legacy is also going through a sudden and sharp downgrade. How did these centrist pillars of Europe tank so quickly? With parties on the far right and far left rising up in their place, are citizens actually becoming more extreme — or are they just fed up? To discuss these questions, host Sarah Wheaton was joined by John Kampfner — an expert on Germany, Nick Vinocour — our chief foreign affairs correspondent, and Clea Caulcutt — our senior correspondent in Paris. Plus, we dive into the alleged espionage scandal facing Hungary’s Viktor Orbán and Commissioner Olivér Várhelyi. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices