Leadership isn't just about the public-facing work – it's also about the personal challenges we overcome each day. In this profound conversation with Mayor Debbie Kling of Nampa, Idaho, we discover the remarkable story of a leader who serves her community tirelessly while also caring for her bedridden husband at night and on weekends. "Those tough times make us better," she reflects, demonstrating how adversity shapes authentic leadership.
Mayor Kling, now in her eighth year at Nampa's helm, shares her perspective on managing explosive growth while preserving the community values that make Idaho special. "Nampa is the best of what America was – a place where neighbor still helps neighbor and we hold true to the foundations of faith in our country." This balance between progress and heritage defines her approach to governance as the city transforms through strategic development.
The conversation explores Nampa's impressive achievements, from downtown revitalization plans to a 28% reduction in Class A crimes. With remarkable transparency, Mayor Kling discusses the city's operational efficiency – managing with fewer resources than neighboring communities while implementing innovative solutions like manufacturing their own de-icer brine to save taxpayer dollars. Her business-minded approach to municipal leadership emphasizes return on investment, accountability, and stewardship.
Perhaps most compelling is the mayor's frustration with state-level politics that undermine local governance while claiming to champion autonomy from federal control. This hypocrisy creates real challenges for cities trying to manage growth responsibly. Despite these obstacles, Mayor Kling remains optimistic, building collaborative relationships across jurisdictions and sectors to create solutions that work for Nampa's unique needs.
Whether you're interested in local politics, leadership principles, or the future of growing Western cities, this conversation offers valuable insights from a leader who exemplifies public service with integrity, compassion, and vision. Listen and be inspired by what effective, authentic leadership looks like in action.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today on the Ever Onward podcast, we have Mayor
Debbie Kling.
Been friends and known Debbiefor a long, long time.
She is up for election thisyear.
She's served as eight years asthe mayor of Nampa and has done
an unbelievable job through herleadership in that great city.
It's going to be great to talkto her and catch up on all
things Nampa.
(00:20):
What's going on?
We're obviously going to talkabout growth in the Treasure
Valley and what she's mostexcited about and upcoming in
the city of Nampa.
Prior to Mayor Debbie Kling,we're going to hear from Mark
Cleverley and Keikoa Nawahineand they're going to be talking
about flex space in the TreasureValley.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Good morning here for an AllQuest update.
I'm Mark Cleverley withAllQuest, here with Keikoa.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, Keikoa Nalahine on the leasing team.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So we want to do a quick update on just a couple
different projects.
One of them, victory Commons.
We're really down to like ourlast two pads out there and we
plan flex out there.
We've got one flex buildingdone, um built and all sold, a
(01:09):
hundred percent sold, and so wewe want to do another one and so
we'll have you give an updateon that and then um.
Another project we're workingon is rock Ridge, um over off of
victory, um and sorry, notvictory, but we're I'll.
I'll let you explain where it'sat Uh, but it's airport ground
that we've um that we're leasingfrom them and we're going to do
(01:33):
some more flex slash, reallylight industrial out there and
so excited to get that one goingas well.
So give us an update on onvictory commons.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah, yeah, no, really excited with our flex
products.
So victory commons, our firstflex building out there was kind
of our first flex buildingamong all of our asset types in
our portfolio and having thismix of a warehouse portion, a
front retail, showroom andoffice all in one space,
(02:03):
especially out in that area onthe corner of meridian, and
victory, has allowed us to see alot of variety of different
users in that building.
So you're saying that the wholebuilding we sold when we about
a 30,000 square foot building.
When we did this, we condoedeach individual unit so we had
the flexibility to either sellor lease the units, depending on
(02:26):
what groups wanted to come inand do.
And traditionally when you seeflex users, it's oh yeah, we
want warehouse space and officeand you know just kind of a mix
of things, but it's yoursubcontractors or general
contractors, people where theycan store stuff in the warehouse
, and really happy and excitedwith how our first flex building
came out, because they come outreally nice and they look
(02:46):
really good.
We have a variety of these users.
We've got Tattooed andSuccessful, which is an apparel
company, in there.
We've got Empire Gym, so afitness gym in there, physical
Therapy, a strictly office user,a real estate agent office, and
then a couple of subcontractorsin there, but just a wide
(03:07):
variety.
So, like the name suggests veryflexible to adapt to the people
that are going in there, and sowe're starting our second
building here this year, rightnext to it, and that'll, like
you said, essentially finish theproject.
The second building's a littlebit different, essentially the
same as our first one.
That we did out there as far aslooks and appearance on the
(03:27):
outside, made it a little bitmore user-friendly on the inside
, just on the design and the waythat we set that up and Brad,
our architect, designed it.
Interior is mostly column andbeam structure, so it's just an
open floor plate.
One of the issues that we facedin building one was the
demising walls were load-bearingand so not a lot of flexibility
.
If groups wanted to take morethan one unit, it kind of had to
(03:50):
work around the walls that werealready in there and open it up
, and so in building two, uh,pretty much open floor plate
which, yeah, which makes it alot more um, user-friendly and
flexible and also build outcosts are a little bit easier.
You know some of the things thatwe're fighting in there and
similar sized building, but thebays are a little bit larger and
so you got the ground floorplate where you can have your
(04:12):
upfront retail showroom presencein the back where you can have
a warehouse or however you wantto utilize that space with the
high ceilings, and then amezzanine up top where most of
the time, you have the officesand different things up there
that that users have had.
So we're with the high ceilingsand then a mezzanine up top
where most of the time, you havethe offices and different
things up there that that usershave had.
So we're excited to to kick offour second building out there
and kind of finish that project.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So real quickly um, these flex buildings.
So six years ago, when we kindof broke off and started uh, six
years agoVA, we went to theTri-Cities and we toured this
product and we're like man, wegot to do this here and so it's.
We've been working on this fora long time and the great thing
(04:53):
about the Flex and the greatthing about our team is we've
made so the adjustments we madefrom Flex 1 to Flex 2, like
we're always learning, likewhat's best for the tenant or
the buyer, right, and we'll,instead of us being set in our
ways, we'll be like, hey, let'sadjust this for these buyers or
(05:14):
tenants because ultimately, itall depends on them, right?
I mean, they're the ones comingin, they're the ones that want
to see these changes, and so Ithink our team's done a great
job with Flex 2 of making thenecessary adjustments so that
it's more user-friendly forthese guys, 100%.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, taking the feedback and being able to adapt
and adjust has been huge andsomething that we take a lot of
pride in too, like you're saying, and so, yeah, taking those
changes into Flex 2 is whatwe're really excited about.
So you have a bay that you canbe as small as 4 000 or you
could take the whole building,you know 32 000 square feet,
really flexible and, um, reallyeasy to to figure out and work
(05:51):
with different users, so a lotto offer there and in a great
spot I mean there's.
There's so much growth out inthat area and south meridian,
meridian and victory and yeah, Ilive out in that area.
It's crazy to see all thegrowth, how it's changed.
Yeah so it's crazy.
Yeah, exciting project thereand then rock ridge um.
It is on victory, it is you knowkind of between, uh, coal road
and orchard right over there onthe south side of victory, um.
(06:14):
And so they're gonna do, yeah,light, industrial, flex type
feel a little bit different thanthe product that we're
delivering at victory commonsCommons in two ways One, we
won't have a mezzanine in there,so it'll be open, high roofs.
We have the ability to do somedock doors, roll-up doors also,
again, be flexible with theusers that come in.
(06:36):
And then, two, we can't condoout these units and sell them
because, like you had mentioned,it's a ground lease that we
have with the airport, yeah, andso that's that's really the
main difference but stillflexible of with users of 4,000
to 30,000 square feet where wecan say, hey, this, we designed
(06:59):
it in a way that, hey, thisworks for a wide range of users,
this is what you, this is howwe can build it out and go from
there.
And so I'm really excited toget that one rolling and get
that.
That's in the early stages ofdesign and getting the marketing
rolled out there.
But it'll be great.
It's underserved in that areawhen we talk about growth, and
(07:20):
the path of growth out in thatsouth Boise area and going out
towards the airport is a lot ofplans for growth and there's a
lot going on out there, so we'reexcited to be able to deliver a
product that can serve theneeds of that area.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, and that product is a lot different than
I mean not a lot, but it isdifferent than Flex 2 or the
Victory Commons stuff, mainlybecause, too, you look at like
real estate's all about, youknow what are you building in
what location, and you look outthere in the south boise and
historically it's been moreindustrial right.
I mean uh, heavy industrial, uhmanufacturing, um things like
(07:58):
that out there in that, in thatarea.
So we, we looked at it.
I mean we were going to do flexout there, kind of the same
product that we've done atVictory.
We just thought, you know what,it's not the right building for
that area, it's not the right.
Those users are not looking atthat area, it's a different user
.
And so I think again, our teamhas adapted and looked at how we
(08:21):
make our Flex different outthere to the users that we're
going to attract out there 100%.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, that's a great point is being able to
understand that specific areaand the needs of that market and
being able to adapt and adjustand not just trying to do a one
size fits all thing.
And being able to analyze thatfrom the beginning is really
important.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So yeah, great point, because we were even thinking
about doing office out there,like office isn't even the right
use out there, right?
So yeah, I mean it's but butyou got to adapt, you got to
change and you got to.
You got to look at the feedbackthat you're getting and change
to that.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And we're excited for these projects.
You know, when you talk to alot of local groups, a lot of
different brokers in the area, abig thing that's underserved is
the ability to get smallersquare footage and sizes in this
flex or light industrial marketand so being able to deliver a
product like that where hey,there's.
There's a lot of need for thisand not a lot of product.
(09:14):
Let's go out and let's make sureit's in the right area the
right building and make surewe're able to deliver to groups
that have needs for somethinglike this.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So we're excited, sweet, awesome man, thanks, all
right, kill it.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Mayor, it's good to see you.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
It's good to see you too.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Great things happening in Nampa.
As always, you know, there'sgreat things happening in Nampa
and the treasure Valley.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
There are it's great, great things happening in Nampa
.
As always, you know, there'sgreat things happening in Nampa
and the Treasure Valley thereare.
It's pretty amazing, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It's amazing, but I have not caught up to you in a
little bit.
It's been several months.
How are you doing Good?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Good.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
How's life?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Life is good.
Life isn't always easy, no, butit is good.
It is good, that's what.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I love about you, though, but you're fearless.
Has it been eight years, sevenyears?
How long have you been?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
married, so I'm in my eighth year.
Yes, it's an election year andI don't like that.
But here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Eighth year election year.
That seems like it's gone by sofast for me it has yeah.
Because I remember when youcame in and long-time service
before that.
How's your husband?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
It's a long journey with my husband yeah, he's
bed-bound but I get to have himat home.
So I have a wonderful caregiverand he has a rare disease and
it's a long journey, but youknow, those tough times make us
better.
So I'm a caregiver in theevenings and weekends.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Listen, I have people on a lot that I love, like you.
It's inspiring when people willtalk a little bit about their
life because I think people seethe mayor.
They see a very strong leader.
I've known you for a long, long, long time and you're one of
the strongest leaders I've knownin Idaho and I remember the
(11:10):
first time I heard about your,your husband and the care you
give and I'm like man, that'sinspiring.
I didn't ever.
I mean, it's just you just plugalong and but talk a little bit
about doing both and how, howyou've handled it and what
people can learn from that.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You know, I get to get up every day and go to work
and I love that, but I get to, Idon't have to.
And my husband would love toget to get up and go to work
every day.
He doesn't get to and he didn'tchoose the journey.
He's on as many that are withmedical issues and I have to say
(11:50):
, for my husband and I over theyears, especially these recent
years, my heart would go out topeople that had a recent loss.
That's tragic, that'sunexpected, because it's
difficult.
Our journey is a long journeyand it's a long journey of
failing health and goingdownhill.
He has a rare disease thatthere's so little information on
(12:10):
it.
It's called posterior corticalatrophy and they don't know what
causes it.
There's no cure for it and it'slong.
It's a long journey, but one ofthe things in life when we go
through difficult places itmakes us better, it gives us a
different level of empathy andso I've just learned, you know,
you stay steady, you stay steady, and the key is in going
(12:33):
through difficult times.
It's walking through it withjoy, just walking through it
with joy.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's beautiful and so much of um sounds.
Some of these things soundcliche or just corny, but
whatever, I think living lifewith gratitude and somehow
finding a way to have gratitudedrive you and look for the
things that are positive andgiving thanks for those things.
(13:02):
And it's just a you know cause.
Cause, we all have issues, weall have things, and I think
it's hard to talk aboutsometimes because we don't want
to, we don't want to bevulnerable, we want to talk
about the things that are hardin our life, Right, but?
But you get around people likeyou, that that do live life with
gratitude and look at thingswith hey, what I'm going to find
(13:22):
the joy in this?
And it's, it's inspiring, butit's the way we all can live and
should live to be happier,Right, I mean there's a lot to
learn from that.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Well, authenticity.
I think sometimes, when peoplelook at leaders and put them on
a pedestal and put them in thisplace, that's maybe different.
And the reality is we're notdifferent.
We face the same challenges inlife that everyone does, and
that's life.
The question is, how do we faceit and how do we do it?
And you know what?
We're running a long race andwe want to end it.
Well, that's great.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
It's fantastic.
Well, I'm sure he loves andappreciates you.
There's probably not a word todescribe someone that cares for
you when you are bedridden andin a situation like this.
So well, thanks for sharingthat.
(14:13):
Let's talk about your tenure asmayor.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Think about what's happened in Nampa in eight years
.
Well, I tell you what.
It's funny because when I waselected, growth was the topic
and I'll never forget going, andin fact it was mentioned in a
meeting yesterday.
That was a BVAP meeting, or itwas a different meeting, I can't
remember.
But actually, what happens whenwe're not growing?
So when I came in as mayor, Isaid the challenge is growth.
Well, here we are, eight yearslater and the challenge is
(14:36):
growth and even more growth.
But what is the opposite ofthat?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
We wouldn't want to be there, no, if there were no
growth and we were static.
So it is a challenge, butthat's.
And then we went through thepandemic.
That was just a ton of fun andwe learned a lot through that.
But you know what?
The city of Napa we camethrough it well, we came through
it well and so it was.
(15:02):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
it's just been a journey like life.
Is that journey that we weretalking about?
It's interesting If you go back, there's so much anti-growth
sentiment right now yes, therejust is.
And so I like to remind peoplethat one I do spend time with
our business out in othercommunities because we're in the
Pacific Northwest doingdevelopment, and when you talk
to them they're like, oh, please, give us this problem that you
(15:24):
have right, exactly Becausethey're not having the same
problems.
The other thing is we arephysically in Idaho and in our
cities we're in really goodshape.
We just are, and a lot ofplaces aren't.
So you start thinking again thisgratitude thing, thinking, okay
, of all the problems we have,this is a pretty good problem to
have as long as it's donecorrectly.
(15:46):
And then you think about jobs.
Now, the one thing that I can'twait to talk to you about is if
you think about, all we talkedabout on the boards we were on
20 years ago was how do we keepour kids here?
Median wage, where do our kidsgo?
I mean, it was the topic of alldiscussions.
We're losing our kids to othercommunities because they can't
find jobs here that pay alivable wage.
That's not the discussionanymore.
(16:07):
Correct.
Now the discussion is okay, mylivable wage is there, but the
cost of housing has outpacedthat and it's hard for them to
live here or find places they'lllive.
But their their jobs.
That's come and and that's.
We ought to be very gratefulfor that.
But how do you look on likeremembering those days and now
saying, okay, now we do havejobs, we have all this industry.
(16:28):
You've boomed in Nampa.
You look at the big employers.
Another one was just announcedwith Tractor Supply coming and I
think I read 500 jobs.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
With Tractor Supply but Excite also is located there
, so we've got a lot of businessgrowth in.
Nampa, which is awesome, yes,but you have to have rooftops
right In order to to meet theneeds.
The housing needs to go withthe jobs.
Yeah, how?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
so jobs are good.
What?
What are you doing housing wise?
What are, what are the, whatare the things, what are the
ideas you have to help help thatproblem.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
It's challenging, it's a little tricky.
A little tricky because, whenyou alluded to it earlier,
people don't want growth, theydon't want density.
They want to say stop.
We moved in from out of stateand now we don't want anybody
else to come.
Yeah, right, so we're going tosay stop to everything.
We recently did a housingsurvey and it showed that by
2040, we need 14,000 units.
Yeah, so, and there's a lot ofdiscussion about well, we want
(17:28):
acre lots.
Right, we want acre lots.
The problem with that is iteats up our ag ground.
Smart growth is actually gettingdensity, and so what we're
trying to do is look at masterplan communities On the
residential side.
I think the master plancommunities are really important
because you have a mix whenit's built.
You've got the larger lots downto the high density, you've got
(17:51):
, maybe, a commercial node,you've got your recreational
area there.
If you can build in thatconcept, I think it's the best
way to move forward.
It was a few years ago that weneeded more multifamily because
we had such a low.
You know, we just needed moreof them.
And then today we really havebuilt up pretty good and you've
got some saying no, we don'twant a lot more multifamily.
(18:14):
So it's, you know what it'sevolving, it's evolving all the
time because even from year toyear you can't say I came in and
I said I was going to do this.
It's changed.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
The beautiful thing?
This would be my argument.
I'm happy to have your counterargument.
But the beautiful thing is ifyou think of how explosive it's
been, you don't have to.
You look around you and you'relike, well, we don't have to
theorize about a lot of stuff,like we don't have to like say
what ifs?
Because we can look down theroad and say, hey, here's what's
happened for the last eight to10 years.
(18:46):
So it makes it more predictableto understand what's happening,
because it's not slowing downwith what's happening in a
micron and we're discovered.
So it's like, hey, what's goingto happen is what's happened.
And I think we need more ofeverything.
Because if you think about it,if you look at the apartment
(19:07):
data now that you could arguethat there was too many, but
then with the, with kind of theinterest rates going up and
everything just kind of stopping.
If you look at the trend rightnow, all you know, for a while
there was probably a little bitmore vacancy than they thought
there would be, but now there'sbeen no new starts for the last
two years.
So all of a sudden, by the timeit takes, you get an approval,
you get in the ground, you getthem built.
There's going to be a time inthe next 18 months that
(19:28):
everyone's going to say, oh mygosh, we're going to need more
of those.
Think of townhomes, think ofstarter homes, think of these
master plan communities thatkind of have a little bit of
everything.
And then, what I love, if youlook at what happens like look
in South Meridian even, wherethe cities have wisely said, hey
, save these corners for thiscommercial retail, it's not the
first thing you need andoftentimes, as a developer,
(19:50):
you're like, oh my gosh, if youlook at this commercial, what
are we going to need?
But, boy, you're sure glad youkept it.
Now you look at Amity and EagleRoad.
My daughter lives right thereand I'm like what if they
wouldn't have preserved thiscorner where now there's just an
Albertsons that went in?
And now you're talking abouttrips on roads and keeping
things closer to where you liveso that you're using existing
(20:10):
infrastructure.
So there are ways to do thissmart, right, and but my
argument would be we kind ofneed to be smart and do all of
it, because we're so far behindand it's only going to get worse
to be smart and do all of itbecause we're so far behind and
it's only going to get worse.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I totally agree.
It's actually the mix, and soit's constantly reevaluating
where we are, what we have, butit's looking at the plats what's
come in versus what's therebecause it's shifting.
Sometimes you don't see what'scoming, but it's already platted
.
In fact, we find that, withsome of the approvals that we're
going through and some of thegrowth, some of it was platted
(20:43):
and annexed and brought in backin 2004 and 2014.
And it's just now getting builtand then even now with interest
rates, and I just kind of Iknow that interest rates are
back.
You know what they are, but myfirst home and back in the day,
it was 13% interest.
Yeah, I got a really great dealat 10, I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
so it's yeah, it's all relative it's all relative
and it ebbs and flows, and it iswhat it is and yesterday at the
we were both at the b-vac thing.
I thought I thought it wasinteresting, uh, the panel of,
uh, big construction companies,because if you think back,
there's always a challenge.
They're just differentchallenges, correct, correct,
and how are we approaching them?
And that's why I and I think Isaid this like I love our
(21:25):
chances, because I, you look atthe leaders we have right now, I
mean I'm not just saying, Imean, like you, look across the
valley, we have very thoughtfulmayors, we have that are working
together.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
You said that yesterday and I love that and
thank you for that, because weare working together, we're
talking Better than ever.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yes, Better than ever .
I mean there is a connection ofhow do we do this together, how
do we solve problems together?
Then you go, even to thecouncils.
They come and go a little bitbut like, look at that, look at
our, you know, and the nextlayer down for us is then the
other ACHD.
There, luckily you don't haveACHD right.
(22:04):
I mean it is as a developer.
It's interesting because assoon as we go across that Ada
County line and we get intoCanyon County, it just makes
more sense because you have morecontrol over what you're doing
with dollars.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
It's a little easier when you are working with a
smaller agency.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, smaller agency, more needs, focused on what it
is, more more probably in tunewith what it is.
But that's neither here northere.
I don't think think that'schanging.
But but even the new directorof achd, uh ryan head, is like
attending meetings and beingcooperative and being helpful
and it's really nice to havethat.
So and then you go to ourlegislature.
(22:38):
I mean, I think in the state welive in, I think back to 15, 20
years ago in Nampa and evenincreasing the size of I-84 to
get back and forth and some ofthose things, I think your local
legislators, I think ofYoungblood, they really stepped
up and led to try to make thingsbetter.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
So it requires this yes, they did.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It requires kind of everything right to be working
together and everyone kind ofoaring in the right direction,
and it feels like right nowwe're doing that from my
perspective.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
We are, although, I have to say, legislatively we
kind of have an attitude that wedon't like local government,
which is interesting, I find itvery interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
It's so hypocritical, right, because it's like
federal government, leave usalone.
We're Idaho, we're autonomous,we're a thing.
And then you get to thelegislature and you've got these
cities, who are in touch withthe people more than anyone,
right, and all of a sudden thatprinciple goes out the door.
It has.
We're going to tell you whatyou're going to do.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
It's difficult and we just did a $400 million tax cut
and that's great.
However, we just had a meetingearlier this morning on we're
talking streets and traffic andthat side of our public works
division, which we do in-house,and so we are going to lose
$250,000 a year because whenthey did that $400 million tax
(24:03):
cut, you've got to take thatmoney from somewhere.
So one of the places they tookit from impacted the revenue
that we have for streets.
That's one of the greatestchallenges and our citizens are
saying public safety andtransportation those two things
and our streets and so you useimpact fees for new growth, but
that doesn't cover renewal andreplacement of that pavement.
(24:26):
And it's aging.
We've got aging infrastructureTrying to figure out how to fund
.
And then the effects of, I'lljust say candidly, house Bill
389 that we talked about a fewyears ago.
We have almost $3 million notin our budget today and that was
growth, funding growth.
So it's not there.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So there are some decisions they make, like that
one.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
You've got to consult your local government.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
But it just didn't make sense when they did it.
And when they did it, Iremember everyone saying well,
this, wait a minute.
You preach growth, fundinggrowth.
You preach local control.
You preach, hey, let us takecare of our dollars.
And then they pass somethinglike that, knowing darn well
what the consequences would be.
And now we're living thoseconsequences.
But I don't understand that.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Well, to be candid, we had a resolution put together
by the Association of IdahoCities that we put before the
legislature and it stayed in adrawer.
It didn't come out and all thatresolution said was it was
acknowledging the role of localgovernment and respecting local
government, and it didn't comeout and it wasn't adopted, which
says something, and I thinkthat I'm going to get in so much
(25:36):
trouble for having thisconversation, but it's a reality
.
It's what we face at the locallevel and for me, I have to say
I don't like politics, I don'tlike political posturing, and
I'm not here because I likepolitics.
I'm only here because I want toserve our community, I want to
make wise decisions and inbusiness or in anything, you
(25:59):
want to leave it better when youleave than when you came in,
and that's really the goal.
Efficiency, I will say at thelocal level, like we started
each year, we kind of have atheme, and this year's theme,
back in October, before theelection, was efficiency.
Before Doge was a thing, right,so that's how we function.
Well, you've had to beefficient.
(26:19):
You're the CEO of a city, right, so it's different, you're the
CEO.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
You've got a budget you have to live with.
You have to balance that budget.
You have to decide how are wegoing to most efficiently spread
the taxpayer dollars and fundsto cover needed services?
Right, that's your world youlive in.
And then you've got politicalthings happening to make
statements that they're not theCEO of a city, they're not the
CEO of a state.
They're making politicalstatements and in the world we
(26:44):
live in, there's a lot ofpolitical things that are done
that, frankly, I think if theyhad the data one of the
arguments I've always made and Ihope that I'm right, one of the
things we don't do well is ifwe had data sometimes better
data to show the impact ofdecisions or of political
statements being made, maybe wewould win, maybe we wouldn't,
but I don't know.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
And I feel like we have pretty good data.
But you have to be willing tolisten to the data and give time
in the process to review thedata, because what happens?
A lot with our statutes thatcome forward.
They come forward prettyquickly, especially we have one
right now urban renewal at theend of the session.
It hits at the end of thesession, there isn't time to
review it, just like 389.
(27:25):
And then it gets voted on butthe language isn't right, and so
if we are not ensuring that thelanguage of the bill protects
the local jurisdiction, thatwe're actually imposing that on
right.
There's language makes thedifference.
It can put us in conflict withother agencies and it can also
put us in a legal battle, andthere were several bills this
year that the language was notgood.
(27:46):
Yet it goes through and it'slike we need to pause and give
time to really one discuss itbefore we implement it, which is
, you know, years ago we did areallocation on state shared
sales tax revenue.
Jason Monks actually ran that,but he took it for like three
years.
They looked at it, then theycame back and they looked at it
(28:08):
again and they looked at itagain.
And that was so good becausethey paused to make sure that
when they did implement it.
They implemented something thatwould stand and that was good.
I think that's a wonderfulmodel and example of something
that was done very well, and Ithink we need to do that in a
lot of other areas where wedon't push things through,
(28:29):
knowing that and you know,sometimes we're settling for not
the best because we don't wantthe worst, and is that an
unfortunate standard that wefall into?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I think that there's so much wisdom in that You're
running again.
I am.
It's an election year.
One of the things that I haveenjoyed watching as I get older
here is the continuity of carein health care.
That's what it would be calledthe continuity, because a lot of
(29:03):
the things that happen in acommunity take trust, they take
time, they take a leader thatauthentically loves the people,
understands the heritage,understands the direction it's
going.
You look at Mayor Tammy longperiod of time, amazing
(29:24):
leadership, right.
You look at Mayor Nancolisright Amazing leadership over a
period of time.
And now I'm not saying we'regetting older, debbie, but like
you're in eighth year here,right, you're starting to hit
that phase where you now youunderstand the community, you
understand the direction, youunderstand the challenges, you
understand the hurdles, and soyou've got to be looking forward
(29:47):
to that next four years withexcitement, because you kind of
get it now.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Yeah, you know it does.
It takes time to reallyunderstand it and I appreciate
that comment.
I was just thinking earlierthis morning about our visit and
thinking about you as a on yourphysician side, right as a
doctor in life, sometimes wethink someone's healthy because
we'd see the outside, right.
They look healthy, butsometimes there's something
(30:10):
going on in the inside that youcan't see, and I think about
that analogy as it relates tocity government.
Is it healthy on the inside?
Because the only way we can behealthy long term and be here
even though we look great on theoutside is if you have a
healthy inside.
And so my focus.
You know, as a mayor, you'rereally an influencer and you set
(30:32):
guidance and direction, but asa CEO, you have a responsibility
to ensure that the operationalefficiencies are there, that the
stewardship is there, and soour core values we talk about it
a lot.
It's excellence, it'sstewardship, it's teamwork,
truth and integrity.
Integrity is police, isexcellent City, we're all
(30:54):
integrity, but integrity istruth at 100%, it's not 99%.
So we talk about that with ourleaders all the time.
The efficiency is that we havea responsibility, but we talk
about return on investment.
Right now we're working on, wedo workshops before the budget
season and every departmentcomes and it's all on video so
(31:15):
that everybody can see it and weencourage our population to
look at it to say what has thisdepartment done?
What are our goals?
Did we accomplish our goals?
Is there any variance expectedcoming up in the budget, and why
?
But for new positions, therehas to be a return on investment
, so how is it going to befunded?
So really, I like to look atcity government more like a
(31:37):
business.
It isn't exactly because it ismunicipal, but I am not a fan of
government entitlement, right,and there's so much entitlement
in the world we live in,especially at the federal level.
I have to say what's happeningand getting our debt under
control is important.
But, as I shared with our citycouncil this morning, I will say
that when we come before citycouncil with a budget, we've
(32:01):
already looked at thestewardship.
We've looked at.
Last year we cut ouroperational budget by 5%.
This year we're staying at zeroincrease and any new position
has to have a return on that.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Which is incredible considering growth, and it's
providing more with less.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Well, for example, roads.
So this morning we just lookedat an analysis at how many
employees per mile.
For example, I think ACHD was32 employees per mile.
Highway 1 was 19.
I think Highway 4, I can'tremember was 21.
We're 52 miles per employee thatour employees have to do and
(32:43):
our wages aren't the samesometimes as our neighboring
city.
So why do the people stay Right?
And the thing I applaud ouremployees because of the
intrinsic value of being part ofa team, loving what they do and
their desire to make adifference.
I am so proud of ourdepartments and the work that
gets done.
So we are the largest publicworks in the state because we do
(33:05):
everything.
We do the streets, we do allthe water, we have an airport, I
mean so we're the largestpublic works division.
There's a lot of work that getsdone, but and we have skilled,
incredible people One thingabout being a leader and you
know this, I'm not the smartestperson in the room, right, my
job is to surround myself withpeople smarter than me that are
the experts, Cause I don't getto be drilled down and be the
(33:28):
expert.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
The good leaders do that.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
And that's what I have to do, right?
You just surround yourself byamazing people that do a good
job, they're accountable, theyhave goals.
We know that we're settingdirection, and then you go there
and get it done and, as a citywe talk about innovation all the
time, like our guys actuallywere the ones, the first ones in
the Treasure Valley, and Ithink ACHD may be wanting to
(33:52):
implement this, and that iswhere we made our own brine.
We saved $64,000 this last yearjust on the brine alone,
because they can do it for centson the dollar versus over a
dollar a gallon for the liquid.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
The liquid de-icer.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
De-icer, I forget the name of it, but anyway, that's
just one example, but that's howwe live within the city of Napa
.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I want my guys to start doing that on our
buildings, because it'sexpensive.
We got lucky this winter,though.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
We did.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
I was talking to my brother-in-law who runs our
property management stuff.
He was in my house last night.
He's like we got so lucky thisyear and financially it so lucky
this year and financially itmakes a huge impact.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Huge impact, that's what he was saying.
Well, how about.
I show you how to do it right.
Just it's easy.
You can make your own brine andyou're done we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Hey, talk about, uh, what's happening downtown.
I have so it's been a long timebut I was able to do the
library in downtown nampa andit's been.
Tom dell was a mayor.
Yes, you know there's a lot ofarguments of how how that thing
came together and the policestation, and it's been.
Tom Dell was a mayor.
You know there's a lot ofarguments of how that thing came
together and the police station, but it's still going there and
I think of the cost that it wasthen and what it would be now,
(35:02):
and it's right in the center ofdowntown.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
And it's beautiful.
It is absolutely beautiful yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And what else is going on downtown.
I was there.
Well, you have the Nampa CivicCenter, which, in my lifetime,
because I had a daughter thatdanced- oh you were there, and
now I have a niece who dancesand so we go out there all the
time, that's great.
All the time, but there is alot going on in downtown Napa.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
You know, one of the challenges with our downtown in
recent history was we didn'thave a change in some of the
land building ownership.
We finally had that change andso it's given us a wonderful
opportunity.
So we've got some great newbusinesses coming in restaurants
, revitalization of a couple ofbuildings we still have one
(35:49):
building that's a holdout andwhen that can change and and we
can actually get because we'vegot people wanting to buy it,
you have to have a willingseller.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
And so that's something that needs to happen,
but we're finishing animplementation plan right now,
and I'm very excited about it.
Over the years, we have had anumber of different plans, and
then they never got done.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
And you know the citizens look at it and say,
good grief, let's not do anotherplan.
This particular one's takingsome of the great work that had
previously been done,revalidating it, and we're going
to get it.
Just in a couple months I thinkit'll be totally done with some
incredible concepts that willchange the look of our downtown.
It's lots that are going to bechanged and moved and we're
(36:34):
going up right with multifamilydowntown with commercial down
below.
You should come in and invest.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I will take a look at it.
You should take a look at it.
We love downtown.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
I tell you what it is going to be so cool.
I am excited about it becauseit's going to be a whole new
downtown and we need downtownliving.
As you know, housetops supportcommercial.
You have to have it, and so forthe commercial to be there.
But we also have some greatrestaurants already downtown.
But we need to finish it out.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Well, you know, I, we're doing a lot in downtown
Reno right now.
So I'm, we're in Reno a lot andand there they sent a
contingency out with to visit usin Boise.
Cause they're like how did?
How did Boise do this?
And and you don't remember.
But when I did eighth and mainand and that was the question
everyone asked me is like, whyare you doing an office building
(37:21):
?
You should be doing residential, why are you doing office
building?
And you're like well, you gottacreate, you gotta create lives
and people in a place wherethey're working, so that then
you can have people that want tolive there.
And I mean, there's an order tothis Exactly.
And they'll always say, in Renoright now, they're like well,
how did you do it?
And I said well, there's aformula that's pretty
straightforward Put civic usesdowntown.
(37:44):
Because, right, and you watchjurisdictions all around our
state and the Northwest that doit wrong where they're going to
invest money to put their stuff.
So putting the library downtownversus putting the library,
that's a very good move.
Putting your police stationdowntown, so there's people
working downtown, that's the key.
Then having reasons to workdowntown, and then all of a
(38:06):
sudden people will live downtown, and especially in a downtown
district that's as beautiful asdowntown Nampa, with as much
history, and so I'm that's gonnawork right.
It's also at the crossroads foryour city too, because Nampa is
interesting, right, becauseyou've got South Nampa and you
know where all the old Salzerwas and and St Al's now, and you
(38:26):
got everything down there andthen you get, you come through
the downtown to get to I-84 andI think think I've always said
the beauty of Nampa and thebeauty of the development in the
next phase is you do go throughit.
So if you can create a reasonto stay there and live there,
it's going to work right.
So I'm incredibly bullish onthat.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
And we have some historical buildings that are
absolutely beautiful.
And so, as we look at the design, and you know how to do this
and do it well, it's the blendof the modern, and here we go,
moving forward to the historythat's already there and
bringing it all together and wehave a beautiful downtown, and
so I'm excited about gettingthis done.
We have our Nampa DevelopmentCorp, which is our urban renewal
(39:08):
.
That can be part of it beforeit sunsets urban renewal that
can be part of it before itsunsets.
We've got about another sixyears before that sunsets to
where we can maybe haveincentive dollars and help move
this forward.
That's what's important, and weneed parking, and parking
doesn't pay for itself, but it'sall integrated.
So as soon as we get this plan,we need you to look at it.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Well and listen, urban renewal gets there are, I
mean there are cases you goaround the state and, because
it's the only tool, it getsmisused, like I mean.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
That's what we got in trouble for, and there's now a
statute in place so that youcan't do what we did.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
And so it does.
But when used appropriately andhaving it reimbursed like it's
tax dollars you're paying Like.
People always ask what is thisthing I'm like?
Well, imagine going andinvesting.
Well, the one I'll use for anexample is you can go invest a
hundred million dollars in adowntown project and any public
infrastructure you put in publicinfrastructure that you're
(40:05):
prepaying and putting in thatqualifies under a formula as
public infrastructure.
Over five to seven years,depending on the length of the
term of the district, you willbe able to be reimbursed for
public infrastructure.
You put it.
When you describe it that way,people are like oh, so you?
Speaker 4 (40:22):
brought in a I get it now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
You put in $100 million, you brought the tax
base up to here and you're goingto get reimbursed for public
infrastructure.
I'm okay with that and I'm like, yeah, that's what it is.
It's, it's interesting, Right.
But if you don't hear it thatway, it's like, wow, this is
that government picking winnersand losers and all this other
stuff.
I'm like you don't understand.
You don't understand.
You've never, you've neverspent five minutes investigating
what it's for.
So I'm glad to hear that it hasbeen, because it's the only
(40:46):
thing that is there.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
But there's a bill this morning that's in committee
on urban renewal again.
That again has language thatleaves it open.
We support the fire and theexclusion and everything that
they're doing in that bill.
But the other side of it is, ifthere's debt, they talk about
the city council having theability to go in and just sunset
it and say you're done.
Well, what if there's debt andthe language in the bill doesn't
even address that?
You've got to have goodlanguage.
So we're asking that they pauseor amend.
(41:14):
Send it to the amending order,get the language right.
We'll see what happens today.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Every year it's there , every year it's in you.
Yeah, what you know, as I getolder, I just shake my head
sometimes.
But if we had a better toolboxthat had different tools that
could then underwrite projectsdepending on what they are, if
there was one for blight, it'svery different than if it's tax
(41:41):
increment for incentivizinggrowth.
They're just different.
Or if it's a utility for cryingout loud, I mean, there's just
different ways.
You could bond for differentthings to cover things.
And because we don't have that,then we have this one tool that
will be stretched or useddifferently, and then that's
when they get hammered, anyway,at some point, well, we're
(42:02):
limiting that tool right now ohyeah, Legislatively we're
limiting the one tool we have.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
And then we look at other cities and people compare
us to other cities around us,and I think it was Orem, Utah, a
number of years ago at theremember when, and you were
probably there, but you'vedeveloped in so many other
cities, so you've got betterexamples than I but of other
cities that have different toolsand see the incredible work
that gets done.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, Utah, I am getting really old.
So Skip Oppenheimer and BillWhitaker and I, probably in 2008
or 2009, put together a groupcalled Idaho 2020.
And we specifically studied andlooked at what are the tools
that people use to invest ininfrastructure and how are they
(42:48):
kind of covering growth in theircommunity.
And Utah was a really, reallygood example.
We actually did a formal studyand said how do they do it?
Just what can we learn fromother jurisdictions?
And it's a red stateconservative, but the principle
of having growth paid for by thepeople that are going to use it
is a very conservativeprinciple if explained, right
(43:10):
and understood.
But you gotta, you gotta, yougotta be willing to understand
and and study and that it's notan additional tax.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
So, many people think , when they see urban renewal on
their tax bill, that they'repaying more.
They're not paying more.
It's just that those tax theincrement tax is going to a
different destination, but itisn't an additional tax.
And it's hard to get the.
To educate the public so thatthey really understand is it's
hard.
It's hard to reach them.
Yeah, so it's yeah, it's alittle difficult.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Okay, talk to me about your community connections
.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
I know that's a big part of what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
That's another thing I want to talk about.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
You know, it's just transparency.
When I came into officeinitially, I did like Mondays
with the Mayor and I diddifferent opportunities just to
hear from the community.
This is just an opportunity bydistrict, to actually get to
hear from our citizens and I'veasked them, I did a short video
and it's like please come withyour ideas and solutions, right,
because we can all talk aboutwhat we see wrong, and usually
(44:10):
it's growth, usually it'straffic and transportation.
But this is an opportunity forus to listen and we're doing it
by district, so the councilmembers that represent that
district will be there, andmyself, and just to listen to
our citizens.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
So it's awesome, and so those are.
On April 8th 16th yeah and 28thyes that that's great.
Um, let, let.
Can we talk a little bit aboutgrowth in Nampa, because I, I
think, um, uh, you know, you goback 25 years when I kind of
started here.
You had, you had Boise.
Um, I mean you could.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
There were distinctly different communities.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
They were you could even go as far as, like you, you
had the big, the big four,right, you had Boise and
Meridian and Nampa and Colville,but then you had, you know,
mayor Evans and Garden City, youhad this little teeny thing
called CUNA, you had Star, youhad Middleton and Eagle, and
they were very distinctlydifferent, things right, and
they each had their ownchallenges and problems or
(45:09):
whatever.
But we're pretty much growntogether now.
I mean, I mean if you, I mean inall directions, um, meridian to
CUNA is is connected now, andyou look at, nampa to Caldwell
and Nampa to Meridian and it'sjust going to continue.
So this notion that, hey, we'regoing to stop growth, it just.
(45:29):
I think people that have comehere from everywhere else, that
have come here for short periodsof time and said, okay, I'm
here, now stop, or somehow I'mthe, I'm the authority on, I
don't want us to becomeCalifornia.
I just laugh when I listen tothem, because one the reason
California is in the problemthey are in, a lot of blue
States are, is that governmentgets involved and says, okay,
(45:51):
we're going to regulate the crapout of everything, we're going
to now try to control whathappens in our community, and
every time that happens, costsgo through the roof.
Regulation drives policy.
That is bad and that's whatthey're asking for.
So, first of all, just on thesurface, I'm like, well, that
doesn't even make sense.
And then, secondly, we have a aheritage here and we have a
(46:13):
beauty here and we have ourpeople here that they're once
discovered.
You know, you, you're not gonnabe able to cap that deal.
I mean it's not gonna.
Speaker 4 (46:24):
I mean people want to be here because it's wonderful
well, and they're fleeingsomething they're fleeing
something right, and so the keyis that we don't become the very
thing that they're fleeing.
Yeah, and it can happen even inalmost a reverse order, and so
we really need to be carefulabout that.
The distinctness of ourcommunities.
I like to say that Nampa is thebest of what America was,
(46:47):
because we're a place whereneighbor still helps neighbor
and we hold true to thefoundations of faith in our
country.
If you look at our country andthe foundations of our country
where it came from and where weare today at the federal level,
it's not the same and we want togo back and be that as a
community.
It's not easy to hang on to it,but my intent, as long as I get
(47:10):
to be mayor, is that we hang onto some of those very core
foundational principles, whichis the strength of family and
faith in our community, that wedo operate in integrity and we
don't operate with politicalmotivations.
But the growth thing is kind ofoutside of that and so how we
approach growth it is tricky.
I mean, the world we live in isvery tricky.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Well, when you just so listen to, when you just like
I'm listening to your comments,I'm thinking that is what
people want.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
Everything you just said is what people so?
Speaker 1 (47:41):
they keep coming here and then when they get here,
they're like I love these people, I love my neighborhood, I love
feeling like I'm, I love thesafety.
I mean you think of the safetyand the beauty and the
neighborhood goodness and theheritage of Idaho and then
you're like, okay, we're goingto stop this, you're not going
to stop it.
So then the next thing is okay,how do we figure out how to
keep Idaho Idaho and kind ofprovide a place where our kids
(48:03):
can stay here and thrive?
That should be the conversation, not how, and I my fear is.
My fear is you look at some ofthese knuckleheads that want to
try to regulate stuff and thatwould be a disaster.
Speaker 4 (48:18):
It has been a disaster.
We're supposedly reducingregulations in the state of
Idaho, but actually we'reincreasing the regulations from
state to local rather thanreducing, and so it's a quandary
that we're in today, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
If you pick legislator A, b, c, pick any of
them.
Okay.
And you said, go be a mayor fora day in Nampa.
What would your perspective beif you were the CEO of the city
versus the person that doesn'thave to deal with some of the
regulation you're passing downand in the same breath you're
passing resolutions or lawssaying federal government, screw
(48:57):
you, we're.
I don't know.
It doesn't connect.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
No it doesn't connect .
That's exactly right, itdoesn't.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Well, let's, let's end on something super positive.
What's, what are your?
What are you looking forward tothe most in the in the coming
year for for your city?
Are you looking forward to themost in the coming year for your
city?
Speaker 4 (49:14):
I am looking forward to getting the downtown
implementation plan done andsetting the vision for where we
can go.
I have to say and I told myteam this this morning I am so
proud of our employees in thecity of Napa.
We talked about that earlier.
One thing we didn't talk aboutis policing.
We implemented a ComSTATprogram I think it was before
2020, but just looking at thestats from 2020, well, 2018 to
(49:39):
today, we've reduced our class Acrimes, which is property
crimes, violent crimes againstpersons, against property and
violent crime, so that has gonedown by 28%.
Back in the day, nampa was, wedid have war crime across the
Treasure Valley, and it's one ofthe things that we fight with
the reputation.
We're not there today.
We are doing such an amazingjob.
(50:00):
We have a new integratedcommand center.
You should come tour it.
It is awesome.
I will.
It looks nicer than even what LAhas.
It is an incredible room withour real-time crime center.
The videos, the work that'sgetting done, it is so good and,
again, integrity is at the coreof everything we do.
(50:22):
We have a lot of good trainingfor our police officers.
So when I look to the city ofNampa and our future, we're
going in the right direction.
It's not easy, but we have goodpeople, and what makes community
amazing and what makes a citygreat, it's the people, it's
just the people.
And we have people that lean in.
(50:43):
And as long as we lean in in apositive sense, we come together
to say how do we solve thechallenges that we have ahead of
us?
Right, if we do that and thatis municipal government working
with the private sector, workingwith the nonprofit sector.
Right, we all have tocollaborate and work together,
and so I'm a champion of thatworking together,
(51:04):
collaboratively to where wefigure it out together.
We need to look forward withhope right to our future,
because we have a great futureahead.
And if we could get bogged downin the negativeness of what's
happening in the world around us?
But our city and for the cityof Nampa, I want to be a city
set on a hill whose light shines, and that is a focus for us,
(51:25):
and you know what we're going togo there.
We have great people, but whatmakes a community great is the
people.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
You dropped the mic on that.
I mean amen.
That was beautiful.
Thank you for your leadership,thank you for your friendship.
It's been I've known you a longtime and I just love.
I love watching you lead.
You're a great example to somany.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
Well, you are too.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
And I look forward to you winning this next election
and continuing your great workand it was great to have you on
and just get an update on allthings, nampa.
But thank you, mary.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Thank you and I hope I can turn it around on you,
because you have been a leaderleading in this entire Treasure
Valley and in our state and youknow what.
It's people like you doing thisand trying to make a difference
, inspiring leaders that makes adifference in our state.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Well, the coolest part I'm busy.
So people always say, why areyou still doing the podcast?
And I'm like this is why?
Because I think having a way,one, I love talking and catching
up with people that I love andrespect.
And secondly, it gives a wayfor people to hear more about
the great things going on, andwe do have so much positive, so
(52:38):
much positive, and we cometogether on things and that's
what makes Idaho great.
But you're, you're, you're,you're a pillar of that and we
love and appreciate you.
So thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (52:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Thanks, everybody Take care.
Today on the Ever Onward podcast, we have Mayor
Debbie Kling.
Been friends and known Debbiefor a long, long time.
She is up for election thisyear.
She's served as eight years asthe mayor of Nampa and has done
an unbelievable job through herleadership in that great city.
It's going to be great to talkto her and catch up on all
things Nampa.
(00:20):
What's going on?
We're obviously going to talkabout growth in the Treasure
Valley and what she's mostexcited about and upcoming in
the city of Nampa.
Prior to Mayor Debbie Kling,we're going to hear from Mark
Cleverley and Keikoa Nawahineand they're going to be talking
about flex space in the TreasureValley.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Good morning here for an AllQuest update.
I'm Mark Cleverley withAllQuest, here with Keikoa.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, Keikoa Nalahine on the leasing team.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So we want to do a quick update on just a couple
different projects.
One of them, victory Commons.
We're really down to like ourlast two pads out there and we
plan flex out there.
We've got one flex buildingdone, um built and all sold, a
(01:09):
hundred percent sold, and so wewe want to do another one and so
we'll have you give an updateon that and then um.
Another project we're workingon is rock Ridge, um over off of
victory, um and sorry, notvictory, but we're I'll.
I'll let you explain where it'sat Uh, but it's airport ground
that we've um that we're leasingfrom them and we're going to do
(01:33):
some more flex slash, reallylight industrial out there and
so excited to get that one goingas well.
So give us an update on onvictory commons.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah, yeah, no, really excited with our flex
products.
So victory commons, our firstflex building out there was kind
of our first flex buildingamong all of our asset types in
our portfolio and having thismix of a warehouse portion, a
front retail, showroom andoffice all in one space,
(02:03):
especially out in that area onthe corner of meridian, and
victory, has allowed us to see alot of variety of different
users in that building.
So you're saying that the wholebuilding we sold when we about
a 30,000 square foot building.
When we did this, we condoedeach individual unit so we had
the flexibility to either sellor lease the units, depending on
(02:26):
what groups wanted to come inand do.
And traditionally when you seeflex users, it's oh yeah, we
want warehouse space and officeand you know just kind of a mix
of things, but it's yoursubcontractors or general
contractors, people where theycan store stuff in the warehouse
, and really happy and excitedwith how our first flex building
came out, because they come outreally nice and they look
(02:46):
really good.
We have a variety of these users.
We've got Tattooed andSuccessful, which is an apparel
company, in there.
We've got Empire Gym, so afitness gym in there, physical
Therapy, a strictly office user,a real estate agent office, and
then a couple of subcontractorsin there, but just a wide
(03:07):
variety.
So, like the name suggests veryflexible to adapt to the people
that are going in there, and sowe're starting our second
building here this year, rightnext to it, and that'll, like
you said, essentially finish theproject.
The second building's a littlebit different, essentially the
same as our first one.
That we did out there as far aslooks and appearance on the
(03:27):
outside, made it a little bitmore user-friendly on the inside
, just on the design and the waythat we set that up and Brad,
our architect, designed it.
Interior is mostly column andbeam structure, so it's just an
open floor plate.
One of the issues that we facedin building one was the
demising walls were load-bearingand so not a lot of flexibility
.
If groups wanted to take morethan one unit, it kind of had to
(03:50):
work around the walls that werealready in there and open it up
, and so in building two, uh,pretty much open floor plate
which, yeah, which makes it alot more um, user-friendly and
flexible and also build outcosts are a little bit easier.
You know some of the things thatwe're fighting in there and
similar sized building, but thebays are a little bit larger and
so you got the ground floorplate where you can have your
(04:12):
upfront retail showroom presencein the back where you can have
a warehouse or however you wantto utilize that space with the
high ceilings, and then amezzanine up top where most of
the time, you have the officesand different things up there
that that users have had.
So we're with the high ceilingsand then a mezzanine up top
where most of the time, you havethe offices and different
things up there that that usershave had.
So we're excited to to kick offour second building out there
and kind of finish that project.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So real quickly um, these flex buildings.
So six years ago, when we kindof broke off and started uh, six
years agoVA, we went to theTri-Cities and we toured this
product and we're like man, wegot to do this here and so it's.
We've been working on this fora long time and the great thing
(04:53):
about the Flex and the greatthing about our team is we've
made so the adjustments we madefrom Flex 1 to Flex 2, like
we're always learning, likewhat's best for the tenant or
the buyer, right, and we'll,instead of us being set in our
ways, we'll be like, hey, let'sadjust this for these buyers or
(05:14):
tenants because ultimately, itall depends on them, right?
I mean, they're the ones comingin, they're the ones that want
to see these changes, and so Ithink our team's done a great
job with Flex 2 of making thenecessary adjustments so that
it's more user-friendly forthese guys, 100%.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, taking the feedback and being able to adapt
and adjust has been huge andsomething that we take a lot of
pride in too, like you're saying, and so, yeah, taking those
changes into Flex 2 is whatwe're really excited about.
So you have a bay that you canbe as small as 4 000 or you
could take the whole building,you know 32 000 square feet,
really flexible and, um, reallyeasy to to figure out and work
(05:51):
with different users, so a lotto offer there and in a great
spot I mean there's.
There's so much growth out inthat area and south meridian,
meridian and victory and yeah, Ilive out in that area.
It's crazy to see all thegrowth, how it's changed.
Yeah so it's crazy.
Yeah, exciting project thereand then rock ridge um.
It is on victory, it is you knowkind of between, uh, coal road
and orchard right over there onthe south side of victory, um.
(06:14):
And so they're gonna do, yeah,light, industrial, flex type
feel a little bit different thanthe product that we're
delivering at victory commonsCommons in two ways One, we
won't have a mezzanine in there,so it'll be open, high roofs.
We have the ability to do somedock doors, roll-up doors also,
again, be flexible with theusers that come in.
(06:36):
And then, two, we can't condoout these units and sell them
because, like you had mentioned,it's a ground lease that we
have with the airport, yeah, andso that's that's really the
main difference but stillflexible of with users of 4,000
to 30,000 square feet where wecan say, hey, this, we designed
(06:59):
it in a way that, hey, thisworks for a wide range of users,
this is what you, this is howwe can build it out and go from
there.
And so I'm really excited toget that one rolling and get
that.
That's in the early stages ofdesign and getting the marketing
rolled out there.
But it'll be great.
It's underserved in that areawhen we talk about growth, and
(07:20):
the path of growth out in thatsouth Boise area and going out
towards the airport is a lot ofplans for growth and there's a
lot going on out there, so we'reexcited to be able to deliver a
product that can serve theneeds of that area.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, and that product is a lot different than
I mean not a lot, but it isdifferent than Flex 2 or the
Victory Commons stuff, mainlybecause, too, you look at like
real estate's all about, youknow what are you building in
what location, and you look outthere in the south boise and
historically it's been moreindustrial right.
I mean uh, heavy industrial, uhmanufacturing, um things like
(07:58):
that out there in that, in thatarea.
So we, we looked at it.
I mean we were going to do flexout there, kind of the same
product that we've done atVictory.
We just thought, you know what,it's not the right building for
that area, it's not the right.
Those users are not looking atthat area, it's a different user
.
And so I think again, our teamhas adapted and looked at how we
(08:21):
make our Flex different outthere to the users that we're
going to attract out there 100%.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, that's a great point is being able to
understand that specific areaand the needs of that market and
being able to adapt and adjustand not just trying to do a one
size fits all thing.
And being able to analyze thatfrom the beginning is really
important.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So yeah, great point, because we were even thinking
about doing office out there,like office isn't even the right
use out there, right?
So yeah, I mean it's but butyou got to adapt, you got to
change and you got to.
You got to look at the feedbackthat you're getting and change
to that.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And we're excited for these projects.
You know, when you talk to alot of local groups, a lot of
different brokers in the area, abig thing that's underserved is
the ability to get smallersquare footage and sizes in this
flex or light industrial marketand so being able to deliver a
product like that where hey,there's.
There's a lot of need for thisand not a lot of product.
(09:14):
Let's go out and let's make sureit's in the right area the
right building and make surewe're able to deliver to groups
that have needs for somethinglike this.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So we're excited, sweet, awesome man, thanks, all
right, kill it.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Mayor, it's good to see you.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
It's good to see you too.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Great things happening in Nampa.
As always, you know, there'sgreat things happening in Nampa
and the treasure Valley.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
There are it's great, great things happening in Nampa
.
As always, you know, there'sgreat things happening in Nampa
and the Treasure Valley thereare.
It's pretty amazing, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It's amazing, but I have not caught up to you in a
little bit.
It's been several months.
How are you doing Good?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Good.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
How's life?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Life is good.
Life isn't always easy, no, butit is good.
It is good, that's what.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I love about you, though, but you're fearless.
Has it been eight years, sevenyears?
How long have you been?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
married, so I'm in my eighth year.
Yes, it's an election year andI don't like that.
But here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Eighth year election year.
That seems like it's gone by sofast for me it has yeah.
Because I remember when youcame in and long-time service
before that.
How's your husband?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
It's a long journey with my husband yeah, he's
bed-bound but I get to have himat home.
So I have a wonderful caregiverand he has a rare disease and
it's a long journey, but youknow, those tough times make us
better.
So I'm a caregiver in theevenings and weekends.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Listen, I have people on a lot that I love, like you.
It's inspiring when people willtalk a little bit about their
life because I think people seethe mayor.
They see a very strong leader.
I've known you for a long, long, long time and you're one of
the strongest leaders I've knownin Idaho and I remember the
(11:10):
first time I heard about your,your husband and the care you
give and I'm like man, that'sinspiring.
I didn't ever.
I mean, it's just you just plugalong and but talk a little bit
about doing both and how, howyou've handled it and what
people can learn from that.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You know, I get to get up every day and go to work
and I love that, but I get to, Idon't have to.
And my husband would love toget to get up and go to work
every day.
He doesn't get to and he didn'tchoose the journey.
He's on as many that are withmedical issues and I have to say
(11:50):
, for my husband and I over theyears, especially these recent
years, my heart would go out topeople that had a recent loss.
That's tragic, that'sunexpected, because it's
difficult.
Our journey is a long journeyand it's a long journey of
failing health and goingdownhill.
He has a rare disease thatthere's so little information on
(12:10):
it.
It's called posterior corticalatrophy and they don't know what
causes it.
There's no cure for it and it'slong.
It's a long journey, but one ofthe things in life when we go
through difficult places itmakes us better, it gives us a
different level of empathy andso I've just learned, you know,
you stay steady, you stay steady, and the key is in going
(12:33):
through difficult times.
It's walking through it withjoy, just walking through it
with joy.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's beautiful and so much of um sounds.
Some of these things soundcliche or just corny, but
whatever, I think living lifewith gratitude and somehow
finding a way to have gratitudedrive you and look for the
things that are positive andgiving thanks for those things.
(13:02):
And it's just a you know cause.
Cause, we all have issues, weall have things, and I think
it's hard to talk aboutsometimes because we don't want
to, we don't want to bevulnerable, we want to talk
about the things that are hardin our life, Right, but?
But you get around people likeyou, that that do live life with
gratitude and look at thingswith hey, what I'm going to find
(13:22):
the joy in this?
And it's, it's inspiring, butit's the way we all can live and
should live to be happier,Right, I mean there's a lot to
learn from that.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Well, authenticity.
I think sometimes, when peoplelook at leaders and put them on
a pedestal and put them in thisplace, that's maybe different.
And the reality is we're notdifferent.
We face the same challenges inlife that everyone does, and
that's life.
The question is, how do we faceit and how do we do it?
And you know what?
We're running a long race andwe want to end it.
Well, that's great.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
It's fantastic.
Well, I'm sure he loves andappreciates you.
There's probably not a word todescribe someone that cares for
you when you are bedridden andin a situation like this.
So well, thanks for sharingthat.
(14:13):
Let's talk about your tenure asmayor.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Think about what's happened in Nampa in eight years
.
Well, I tell you what.
It's funny because when I waselected, growth was the topic
and I'll never forget going, andin fact it was mentioned in a
meeting yesterday.
That was a BVAP meeting, or itwas a different meeting, I can't
remember.
But actually, what happens whenwe're not growing?
So when I came in as mayor, Isaid the challenge is growth.
Well, here we are, eight yearslater and the challenge is
(14:36):
growth and even more growth.
But what is the opposite ofthat?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
We wouldn't want to be there, no, if there were no
growth and we were static.
So it is a challenge, butthat's.
And then we went through thepandemic.
That was just a ton of fun andwe learned a lot through that.
But you know what?
The city of Napa we camethrough it well, we came through
it well and so it was.
(15:02):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
it's just been a journey like life.
Is that journey that we weretalking about?
It's interesting If you go back, there's so much anti-growth
sentiment right now yes, therejust is.
And so I like to remind peoplethat one I do spend time with
our business out in othercommunities because we're in the
Pacific Northwest doingdevelopment, and when you talk
to them they're like, oh, please, give us this problem that you
(15:24):
have right, exactly Becausethey're not having the same
problems.
The other thing is we arephysically in Idaho and in our
cities we're in really goodshape.
We just are, and a lot ofplaces aren't.
So you start thinking again thisgratitude thing, thinking, okay
, of all the problems we have,this is a pretty good problem to
have as long as it's donecorrectly.
(15:46):
And then you think about jobs.
Now, the one thing that I can'twait to talk to you about is if
you think about, all we talkedabout on the boards we were on
20 years ago was how do we keepour kids here?
Median wage, where do our kidsgo?
I mean, it was the topic of alldiscussions.
We're losing our kids to othercommunities because they can't
find jobs here that pay alivable wage.
That's not the discussionanymore.
(16:07):
Correct.
Now the discussion is okay, mylivable wage is there, but the
cost of housing has outpacedthat and it's hard for them to
live here or find places they'lllive.
But their their jobs.
That's come and and that's.
We ought to be very gratefulfor that.
But how do you look on likeremembering those days and now
saying, okay, now we do havejobs, we have all this industry.
(16:28):
You've boomed in Nampa.
You look at the big employers.
Another one was just announcedwith Tractor Supply coming and I
think I read 500 jobs.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
With Tractor Supply but Excite also is located there
, so we've got a lot of businessgrowth in.
Nampa, which is awesome, yes,but you have to have rooftops
right In order to to meet theneeds.
The housing needs to go withthe jobs.
Yeah, how?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
so jobs are good.
What?
What are you doing housing wise?
What are, what are the, whatare the things, what are the
ideas you have to help help thatproblem.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
It's challenging, it's a little tricky.
A little tricky because, whenyou alluded to it earlier,
people don't want growth, theydon't want density.
They want to say stop.
We moved in from out of stateand now we don't want anybody
else to come.
Yeah, right, so we're going tosay stop to everything.
We recently did a housingsurvey and it showed that by
2040, we need 14,000 units.
Yeah, so, and there's a lot ofdiscussion about well, we want
(17:28):
acre lots.
Right, we want acre lots.
The problem with that is iteats up our ag ground.
Smart growth is actually gettingdensity, and so what we're
trying to do is look at masterplan communities On the
residential side.
I think the master plancommunities are really important
because you have a mix whenit's built.
You've got the larger lots downto the high density, you've got
(17:51):
, maybe, a commercial node,you've got your recreational
area there.
If you can build in thatconcept, I think it's the best
way to move forward.
It was a few years ago that weneeded more multifamily because
we had such a low.
You know, we just needed moreof them.
And then today we really havebuilt up pretty good and you've
got some saying no, we don'twant a lot more multifamily.
(18:14):
So it's, you know what it'sevolving, it's evolving all the
time because even from year toyear you can't say I came in and
I said I was going to do this.
It's changed.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
The beautiful thing?
This would be my argument.
I'm happy to have your counterargument.
But the beautiful thing is ifyou think of how explosive it's
been, you don't have to.
You look around you and you'relike, well, we don't have to
theorize about a lot of stuff,like we don't have to like say
what ifs?
Because we can look down theroad and say, hey, here's what's
happened for the last eight to10 years.
(18:46):
So it makes it more predictableto understand what's happening,
because it's not slowing downwith what's happening in a
micron and we're discovered.
So it's like, hey, what's goingto happen is what's happened.
And I think we need more ofeverything.
Because if you think about it,if you look at the apartment
(19:07):
data now that you could arguethat there was too many, but
then with the, with kind of theinterest rates going up and
everything just kind of stopping.
If you look at the trend rightnow, all you know, for a while
there was probably a little bitmore vacancy than they thought
there would be, but now there'sbeen no new starts for the last
two years.
So all of a sudden, by the timeit takes, you get an approval,
you get in the ground, you getthem built.
There's going to be a time inthe next 18 months that
(19:28):
everyone's going to say, oh mygosh, we're going to need more
of those.
Think of townhomes, think ofstarter homes, think of these
master plan communities thatkind of have a little bit of
everything.
And then, what I love, if youlook at what happens like look
in South Meridian even, wherethe cities have wisely said, hey
, save these corners for thiscommercial retail, it's not the
first thing you need andoftentimes, as a developer,
(19:50):
you're like, oh my gosh, if youlook at this commercial, what
are we going to need?
But, boy, you're sure glad youkept it.
Now you look at Amity and EagleRoad.
My daughter lives right thereand I'm like what if they
wouldn't have preserved thiscorner where now there's just an
Albertsons that went in?
And now you're talking abouttrips on roads and keeping
things closer to where you liveso that you're using existing
(20:10):
infrastructure.
So there are ways to do thissmart, right, and but my
argument would be we kind ofneed to be smart and do all of
it, because we're so far behindand it's only going to get worse
to be smart and do all of itbecause we're so far behind and
it's only going to get worse.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I totally agree.
It's actually the mix, and soit's constantly reevaluating
where we are, what we have, butit's looking at the plats what's
come in versus what's therebecause it's shifting.
Sometimes you don't see what'scoming, but it's already platted
.
In fact, we find that, withsome of the approvals that we're
going through and some of thegrowth, some of it was platted
(20:43):
and annexed and brought in backin 2004 and 2014.
And it's just now getting builtand then even now with interest
rates, and I just kind of Iknow that interest rates are
back.
You know what they are, but myfirst home and back in the day,
it was 13% interest.
Yeah, I got a really great dealat 10, I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
so it's yeah, it's all relative it's all relative
and it ebbs and flows, and it iswhat it is and yesterday at the
we were both at the b-vac thing.
I thought I thought it wasinteresting, uh, the panel of,
uh, big construction companies,because if you think back,
there's always a challenge.
They're just differentchallenges, correct, correct,
and how are we approaching them?
And that's why I and I think Isaid this like I love our
(21:25):
chances, because I, you look atthe leaders we have right now, I
mean I'm not just saying, Imean, like you, look across the
valley, we have very thoughtfulmayors, we have that are working
together.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
You said that yesterday and I love that and
thank you for that, because weare working together, we're
talking Better than ever.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yes, Better than ever .
I mean there is a connection ofhow do we do this together, how
do we solve problems together?
Then you go, even to thecouncils.
They come and go a little bitbut like, look at that, look at
our, you know, and the nextlayer down for us is then the
other ACHD.
There, luckily you don't haveACHD right.
(22:04):
I mean it is as a developer.
It's interesting because assoon as we go across that Ada
County line and we get intoCanyon County, it just makes
more sense because you have morecontrol over what you're doing
with dollars.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
It's a little easier when you are working with a
smaller agency.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, smaller agency, more needs, focused on what it
is, more more probably in tunewith what it is.
But that's neither here northere.
I don't think think that'schanging.
But but even the new directorof achd, uh ryan head, is like
attending meetings and beingcooperative and being helpful
and it's really nice to havethat.
So and then you go to ourlegislature.
(22:38):
I mean, I think in the state welive in, I think back to 15, 20
years ago in Nampa and evenincreasing the size of I-84 to
get back and forth and some ofthose things, I think your local
legislators, I think ofYoungblood, they really stepped
up and led to try to make thingsbetter.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
So it requires this yes, they did.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It requires kind of everything right to be working
together and everyone kind ofoaring in the right direction,
and it feels like right nowwe're doing that from my
perspective.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
We are, although, I have to say, legislatively we
kind of have an attitude that wedon't like local government,
which is interesting, I find itvery interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
It's so hypocritical, right, because it's like
federal government, leave usalone.
We're Idaho, we're autonomous,we're a thing.
And then you get to thelegislature and you've got these
cities, who are in touch withthe people more than anyone,
right, and all of a sudden thatprinciple goes out the door.
It has.
We're going to tell you whatyou're going to do.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
It's difficult and we just did a $400 million tax cut
and that's great.
However, we just had a meetingearlier this morning on we're
talking streets and traffic andthat side of our public works
division, which we do in-house,and so we are going to lose
$250,000 a year because whenthey did that $400 million tax
(24:03):
cut, you've got to take thatmoney from somewhere.
So one of the places they tookit from impacted the revenue
that we have for streets.
That's one of the greatestchallenges and our citizens are
saying public safety andtransportation those two things
and our streets and so you useimpact fees for new growth, but
that doesn't cover renewal andreplacement of that pavement.
(24:26):
And it's aging.
We've got aging infrastructureTrying to figure out how to fund
.
And then the effects of, I'lljust say candidly, house Bill
389 that we talked about a fewyears ago.
We have almost $3 million notin our budget today and that was
growth, funding growth.
So it's not there.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So there are some decisions they make, like that
one.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
You've got to consult your local government.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
But it just didn't make sense when they did it.
And when they did it, Iremember everyone saying well,
this, wait a minute.
You preach growth, fundinggrowth.
You preach local control.
You preach, hey, let us takecare of our dollars.
And then they pass somethinglike that, knowing darn well
what the consequences would be.
And now we're living thoseconsequences.
But I don't understand that.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Well, to be candid, we had a resolution put together
by the Association of IdahoCities that we put before the
legislature and it stayed in adrawer.
It didn't come out and all thatresolution said was it was
acknowledging the role of localgovernment and respecting local
government, and it didn't comeout and it wasn't adopted, which
says something, and I thinkthat I'm going to get in so much
(25:36):
trouble for having thisconversation, but it's a reality
.
It's what we face at the locallevel and for me, I have to say
I don't like politics, I don'tlike political posturing, and
I'm not here because I likepolitics.
I'm only here because I want toserve our community, I want to
make wise decisions and inbusiness or in anything, you
(25:59):
want to leave it better when youleave than when you came in,
and that's really the goal.
Efficiency, I will say at thelocal level, like we started
each year, we kind of have atheme, and this year's theme,
back in October, before theelection, was efficiency.
Before Doge was a thing, right,so that's how we function.
Well, you've had to beefficient.
(26:19):
You're the CEO of a city, right, so it's different, you're the
CEO.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
You've got a budget you have to live with.
You have to balance that budget.
You have to decide how are wegoing to most efficiently spread
the taxpayer dollars and fundsto cover needed services?
Right, that's your world youlive in.
And then you've got politicalthings happening to make
statements that they're not theCEO of a city, they're not the
CEO of a state.
They're making politicalstatements and in the world we
(26:44):
live in, there's a lot ofpolitical things that are done
that, frankly, I think if theyhad the data one of the
arguments I've always made and Ihope that I'm right, one of the
things we don't do well is ifwe had data sometimes better
data to show the impact ofdecisions or of political
statements being made, maybe wewould win, maybe we wouldn't,
but I don't know.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
And I feel like we have pretty good data.
But you have to be willing tolisten to the data and give time
in the process to review thedata, because what happens?
A lot with our statutes thatcome forward.
They come forward prettyquickly, especially we have one
right now urban renewal at theend of the session.
It hits at the end of thesession, there isn't time to
review it, just like 389.
(27:25):
And then it gets voted on butthe language isn't right, and so
if we are not ensuring that thelanguage of the bill protects
the local jurisdiction, thatwe're actually imposing that on
right.
There's language makes thedifference.
It can put us in conflict withother agencies and it can also
put us in a legal battle, andthere were several bills this
year that the language was notgood.
(27:46):
Yet it goes through and it'slike we need to pause and give
time to really one discuss itbefore we implement it, which is
, you know, years ago we did areallocation on state shared
sales tax revenue.
Jason Monks actually ran that,but he took it for like three
years.
They looked at it, then theycame back and they looked at it
(28:08):
again and they looked at itagain.
And that was so good becausethey paused to make sure that
when they did implement it.
They implemented something thatwould stand and that was good.
I think that's a wonderfulmodel and example of something
that was done very well, and Ithink we need to do that in a
lot of other areas where wedon't push things through,
(28:29):
knowing that and you know,sometimes we're settling for not
the best because we don't wantthe worst, and is that an
unfortunate standard that wefall into?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I think that there's so much wisdom in that You're
running again.
I am.
It's an election year.
One of the things that I haveenjoyed watching as I get older
here is the continuity of carein health care.
That's what it would be calledthe continuity, because a lot of
(29:03):
the things that happen in acommunity take trust, they take
time, they take a leader thatauthentically loves the people,
understands the heritage,understands the direction it's
going.
You look at Mayor Tammy longperiod of time, amazing
(29:24):
leadership, right.
You look at Mayor Nancolisright Amazing leadership over a
period of time.
And now I'm not saying we'regetting older, debbie, but like
you're in eighth year here,right, you're starting to hit
that phase where you now youunderstand the community, you
understand the direction, youunderstand the challenges, you
understand the hurdles, and soyou've got to be looking forward
(29:47):
to that next four years withexcitement, because you kind of
get it now.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Yeah, you know it does.
It takes time to reallyunderstand it and I appreciate
that comment.
I was just thinking earlierthis morning about our visit and
thinking about you as a on yourphysician side, right as a
doctor in life, sometimes wethink someone's healthy because
we'd see the outside, right.
They look healthy, butsometimes there's something
(30:10):
going on in the inside that youcan't see, and I think about
that analogy as it relates tocity government.
Is it healthy on the inside?
Because the only way we can behealthy long term and be here
even though we look great on theoutside is if you have a
healthy inside.
And so my focus.
You know, as a mayor, you'rereally an influencer and you set
(30:32):
guidance and direction, but asa CEO, you have a responsibility
to ensure that the operationalefficiencies are there, that the
stewardship is there, and soour core values we talk about it
a lot.
It's excellence, it'sstewardship, it's teamwork,
truth and integrity.
Integrity is police, isexcellent City, we're all
(30:54):
integrity, but integrity istruth at 100%, it's not 99%.
So we talk about that with ourleaders all the time.
The efficiency is that we havea responsibility, but we talk
about return on investment.
Right now we're working on, wedo workshops before the budget
season and every departmentcomes and it's all on video so
(31:15):
that everybody can see it and weencourage our population to
look at it to say what has thisdepartment done?
What are our goals?
Did we accomplish our goals?
Is there any variance expectedcoming up in the budget, and why
?
But for new positions, therehas to be a return on investment
, so how is it going to befunded?
So really, I like to look atcity government more like a
(31:37):
business.
It isn't exactly because it ismunicipal, but I am not a fan of
government entitlement, right,and there's so much entitlement
in the world we live in,especially at the federal level.
I have to say what's happeningand getting our debt under
control is important.
But, as I shared with our citycouncil this morning, I will say
that when we come before citycouncil with a budget, we've
(32:01):
already looked at thestewardship.
We've looked at.
Last year we cut ouroperational budget by 5%.
This year we're staying at zeroincrease and any new position
has to have a return on that.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Which is incredible considering growth, and it's
providing more with less.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Well, for example, roads.
So this morning we just lookedat an analysis at how many
employees per mile.
For example, I think ACHD was32 employees per mile.
Highway 1 was 19.
I think Highway 4, I can'tremember was 21.
We're 52 miles per employee thatour employees have to do and
(32:43):
our wages aren't the samesometimes as our neighboring
city.
So why do the people stay Right?
And the thing I applaud ouremployees because of the
intrinsic value of being part ofa team, loving what they do and
their desire to make adifference.
I am so proud of ourdepartments and the work that
gets done.
So we are the largest publicworks in the state because we do
(33:05):
everything.
We do the streets, we do allthe water, we have an airport, I
mean so we're the largestpublic works division.
There's a lot of work that getsdone, but and we have skilled,
incredible people One thingabout being a leader and you
know this, I'm not the smartestperson in the room, right, my
job is to surround myself withpeople smarter than me that are
the experts, Cause I don't getto be drilled down and be the
(33:28):
expert.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
The good leaders do that.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
And that's what I have to do, right?
You just surround yourself byamazing people that do a good
job, they're accountable, theyhave goals.
We know that we're settingdirection, and then you go there
and get it done and, as a citywe talk about innovation all the
time, like our guys actuallywere the ones, the first ones in
the Treasure Valley, and Ithink ACHD may be wanting to
(33:52):
implement this, and that iswhere we made our own brine.
We saved $64,000 this last yearjust on the brine alone,
because they can do it for centson the dollar versus over a
dollar a gallon for the liquid.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
The liquid de-icer.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
De-icer, I forget the name of it, but anyway, that's
just one example, but that's howwe live within the city of Napa
.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I want my guys to start doing that on our
buildings, because it'sexpensive.
We got lucky this winter,though.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
We did.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
I was talking to my brother-in-law who runs our
property management stuff.
He was in my house last night.
He's like we got so lucky thisyear and financially it so lucky
this year and financially itmakes a huge impact.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Huge impact, that's what he was saying.
Well, how about.
I show you how to do it right.
Just it's easy.
You can make your own brine andyou're done we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Hey, talk about, uh, what's happening downtown.
I have so it's been a long timebut I was able to do the
library in downtown nampa andit's been.
Tom dell was a mayor.
Yes, you know there's a lot ofarguments of how how that thing
came together and the policestation, and it's been.
Tom Dell was a mayor.
You know there's a lot ofarguments of how that thing came
together and the police station, but it's still going there and
I think of the cost that it wasthen and what it would be now,
(35:02):
and it's right in the center ofdowntown.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
And it's beautiful.
It is absolutely beautiful yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And what else is going on downtown.
I was there.
Well, you have the Nampa CivicCenter, which, in my lifetime,
because I had a daughter thatdanced- oh you were there, and
now I have a niece who dancesand so we go out there all the
time, that's great.
All the time, but there is alot going on in downtown Napa.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
You know, one of the challenges with our downtown in
recent history was we didn'thave a change in some of the
land building ownership.
We finally had that change andso it's given us a wonderful
opportunity.
So we've got some great newbusinesses coming in restaurants
, revitalization of a couple ofbuildings we still have one
(35:49):
building that's a holdout andwhen that can change and and we
can actually get because we'vegot people wanting to buy it,
you have to have a willingseller.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
And so that's something that needs to happen,
but we're finishing animplementation plan right now,
and I'm very excited about it.
Over the years, we have had anumber of different plans, and
then they never got done.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
And you know the citizens look at it and say,
good grief, let's not do anotherplan.
This particular one's takingsome of the great work that had
previously been done,revalidating it, and we're going
to get it.
Just in a couple months I thinkit'll be totally done with some
incredible concepts that willchange the look of our downtown.
It's lots that are going to bechanged and moved and we're
(36:34):
going up right with multifamilydowntown with commercial down
below.
You should come in and invest.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I will take a look at it.
You should take a look at it.
We love downtown.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
I tell you what it is going to be so cool.
I am excited about it becauseit's going to be a whole new
downtown and we need downtownliving.
As you know, housetops supportcommercial.
You have to have it, and so forthe commercial to be there.
But we also have some greatrestaurants already downtown.
But we need to finish it out.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Well, you know, I, we're doing a lot in downtown
Reno right now.
So I'm, we're in Reno a lot andand there they sent a
contingency out with to visit usin Boise.
Cause they're like how did?
How did Boise do this?
And and you don't remember.
But when I did eighth and mainand and that was the question
everyone asked me is like, whyare you doing an office building
(37:21):
?
You should be doing residential, why are you doing office
building?
And you're like well, you gottacreate, you gotta create lives
and people in a place wherethey're working, so that then
you can have people that want tolive there.
And I mean, there's an order tothis Exactly.
And they'll always say, in Renoright now, they're like well,
how did you do it?
And I said well, there's aformula that's pretty
straightforward Put civic usesdowntown.
(37:44):
Because, right, and you watchjurisdictions all around our
state and the Northwest that doit wrong where they're going to
invest money to put their stuff.
So putting the library downtownversus putting the library,
that's a very good move.
Putting your police stationdowntown, so there's people
working downtown, that's the key.
Then having reasons to workdowntown, and then all of a
(38:06):
sudden people will live downtown, and especially in a downtown
district that's as beautiful asdowntown Nampa, with as much
history, and so I'm that's gonnawork right.
It's also at the crossroads foryour city too, because Nampa is
interesting, right, becauseyou've got South Nampa and you
know where all the old Salzerwas and and St Al's now, and you
(38:26):
got everything down there andthen you get, you come through
the downtown to get to I-84 andI think think I've always said
the beauty of Nampa and thebeauty of the development in the
next phase is you do go throughit.
So if you can create a reasonto stay there and live there,
it's going to work right.
So I'm incredibly bullish onthat.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
And we have some historical buildings that are
absolutely beautiful.
And so, as we look at the design, and you know how to do this
and do it well, it's the blendof the modern, and here we go,
moving forward to the historythat's already there and
bringing it all together and wehave a beautiful downtown, and
so I'm excited about gettingthis done.
We have our Nampa DevelopmentCorp, which is our urban renewal
(39:08):
.
That can be part of it beforeit sunsets urban renewal that
can be part of it before itsunsets.
We've got about another sixyears before that sunsets to
where we can maybe haveincentive dollars and help move
this forward.
That's what's important, and weneed parking, and parking
doesn't pay for itself, but it'sall integrated.
So as soon as we get this plan,we need you to look at it.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Well and listen, urban renewal gets there are, I
mean there are cases you goaround the state and, because
it's the only tool, it getsmisused, like I mean.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
That's what we got in trouble for, and there's now a
statute in place so that youcan't do what we did.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
And so it does.
But when used appropriately andhaving it reimbursed like it's
tax dollars you're paying Like.
People always ask what is thisthing I'm like?
Well, imagine going andinvesting.
Well, the one I'll use for anexample is you can go invest a
hundred million dollars in adowntown project and any public
infrastructure you put in publicinfrastructure that you're
(40:05):
prepaying and putting in thatqualifies under a formula as
public infrastructure.
Over five to seven years,depending on the length of the
term of the district, you willbe able to be reimbursed for
public infrastructure.
You put it.
When you describe it that way,people are like oh, so you?
Speaker 4 (40:22):
brought in a I get it now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
You put in $100 million, you brought the tax
base up to here and you're goingto get reimbursed for public
infrastructure.
I'm okay with that and I'm like, yeah, that's what it is.
It's, it's interesting, Right.
But if you don't hear it thatway, it's like, wow, this is
that government picking winnersand losers and all this other
stuff.
I'm like you don't understand.
You don't understand.
You've never, you've neverspent five minutes investigating
what it's for.
So I'm glad to hear that it hasbeen, because it's the only
(40:46):
thing that is there.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
But there's a bill this morning that's in committee
on urban renewal again.
That again has language thatleaves it open.
We support the fire and theexclusion and everything that
they're doing in that bill.
But the other side of it is, ifthere's debt, they talk about
the city council having theability to go in and just sunset
it and say you're done.
Well, what if there's debt andthe language in the bill doesn't
even address that?
You've got to have goodlanguage.
So we're asking that they pauseor amend.
(41:14):
Send it to the amending order,get the language right.
We'll see what happens today.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Every year it's there , every year it's in you.
Yeah, what you know, as I getolder, I just shake my head
sometimes.
But if we had a better toolboxthat had different tools that
could then underwrite projectsdepending on what they are, if
there was one for blight, it'svery different than if it's tax
(41:41):
increment for incentivizinggrowth.
They're just different.
Or if it's a utility for cryingout loud, I mean, there's just
different ways.
You could bond for differentthings to cover things.
And because we don't have that,then we have this one tool that
will be stretched or useddifferently, and then that's
when they get hammered, anyway,at some point, well, we're
(42:02):
limiting that tool right now ohyeah, Legislatively we're
limiting the one tool we have.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
And then we look at other cities and people compare
us to other cities around us,and I think it was Orem, Utah, a
number of years ago at theremember when, and you were
probably there, but you'vedeveloped in so many other
cities, so you've got betterexamples than I but of other
cities that have different toolsand see the incredible work
that gets done.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, Utah, I am getting really old.
So Skip Oppenheimer and BillWhitaker and I, probably in 2008
or 2009, put together a groupcalled Idaho 2020.
And we specifically studied andlooked at what are the tools
that people use to invest ininfrastructure and how are they
(42:48):
kind of covering growth in theircommunity.
And Utah was a really, reallygood example.
We actually did a formal studyand said how do they do it?
Just what can we learn fromother jurisdictions?
And it's a red stateconservative, but the principle
of having growth paid for by thepeople that are going to use it
is a very conservativeprinciple if explained, right
(43:10):
and understood.
But you gotta, you gotta, yougotta be willing to understand
and and study and that it's notan additional tax.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
So, many people think , when they see urban renewal on
their tax bill, that they'repaying more.
They're not paying more.
It's just that those tax theincrement tax is going to a
different destination, but itisn't an additional tax.
And it's hard to get the.
To educate the public so thatthey really understand is it's
hard.
It's hard to reach them.
Yeah, so it's yeah, it's alittle difficult.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Okay, talk to me about your community connections
.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
I know that's a big part of what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
That's another thing I want to talk about.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
You know, it's just transparency.
When I came into officeinitially, I did like Mondays
with the Mayor and I diddifferent opportunities just to
hear from the community.
This is just an opportunity bydistrict, to actually get to
hear from our citizens and I'veasked them, I did a short video
and it's like please come withyour ideas and solutions, right,
because we can all talk aboutwhat we see wrong, and usually
(44:10):
it's growth, usually it'straffic and transportation.
But this is an opportunity forus to listen and we're doing it
by district, so the councilmembers that represent that
district will be there, andmyself, and just to listen to
our citizens.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
So it's awesome, and so those are.
On April 8th 16th yeah and 28thyes that that's great.
Um, let, let.
Can we talk a little bit aboutgrowth in Nampa, because I, I
think, um, uh, you know, you goback 25 years when I kind of
started here.
You had, you had Boise.
Um, I mean you could.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
There were distinctly different communities.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
They were you could even go as far as, like you, you
had the big, the big four,right, you had Boise and
Meridian and Nampa and Colville,but then you had, you know,
mayor Evans and Garden City, youhad this little teeny thing
called CUNA, you had Star, youhad Middleton and Eagle, and
they were very distinctlydifferent, things right, and
they each had their ownchallenges and problems or
(45:09):
whatever.
But we're pretty much growntogether now.
I mean, I mean if you, I mean inall directions, um, meridian to
CUNA is is connected now, andyou look at, nampa to Caldwell
and Nampa to Meridian and it'sjust going to continue.
So this notion that, hey, we'regoing to stop growth, it just.
(45:29):
I think people that have comehere from everywhere else, that
have come here for short periodsof time and said, okay, I'm
here, now stop, or somehow I'mthe, I'm the authority on, I
don't want us to becomeCalifornia.
I just laugh when I listen tothem, because one the reason
California is in the problemthey are in, a lot of blue
States are, is that governmentgets involved and says, okay,
(45:51):
we're going to regulate the crapout of everything, we're going
to now try to control whathappens in our community, and
every time that happens, costsgo through the roof.
Regulation drives policy.
That is bad and that's whatthey're asking for.
So, first of all, just on thesurface, I'm like, well, that
doesn't even make sense.
And then, secondly, we have a aheritage here and we have a
(46:13):
beauty here and we have ourpeople here that they're once
discovered.
You know, you, you're not gonnabe able to cap that deal.
I mean it's not gonna.
Speaker 4 (46:24):
I mean people want to be here because it's wonderful
well, and they're fleeingsomething they're fleeing
something right, and so the keyis that we don't become the very
thing that they're fleeing.
Yeah, and it can happen even inalmost a reverse order, and so
we really need to be carefulabout that.
The distinctness of ourcommunities.
I like to say that Nampa is thebest of what America was,
(46:47):
because we're a place whereneighbor still helps neighbor
and we hold true to thefoundations of faith in our
country.
If you look at our country andthe foundations of our country
where it came from and where weare today at the federal level,
it's not the same and we want togo back and be that as a
community.
It's not easy to hang on to it,but my intent, as long as I get
(47:10):
to be mayor, is that we hang onto some of those very core
foundational principles, whichis the strength of family and
faith in our community, that wedo operate in integrity and we
don't operate with politicalmotivations.
But the growth thing is kind ofoutside of that and so how we
approach growth it is tricky.
I mean, the world we live in isvery tricky.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Well, when you just so listen to, when you just like
I'm listening to your comments,I'm thinking that is what
people want.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
Everything you just said is what people so?
Speaker 1 (47:41):
they keep coming here and then when they get here,
they're like I love these people, I love my neighborhood, I love
feeling like I'm, I love thesafety.
I mean you think of the safetyand the beauty and the
neighborhood goodness and theheritage of Idaho and then
you're like, okay, we're goingto stop this, you're not going
to stop it.
So then the next thing is okay,how do we figure out how to
keep Idaho Idaho and kind ofprovide a place where our kids
(48:03):
can stay here and thrive?
That should be the conversation, not how, and I my fear is.
My fear is you look at some ofthese knuckleheads that want to
try to regulate stuff and thatwould be a disaster.
Speaker 4 (48:18):
It has been a disaster.
We're supposedly reducingregulations in the state of
Idaho, but actually we'reincreasing the regulations from
state to local rather thanreducing, and so it's a quandary
that we're in today, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
If you pick legislator A, b, c, pick any of
them.
Okay.
And you said, go be a mayor fora day in Nampa.
What would your perspective beif you were the CEO of the city
versus the person that doesn'thave to deal with some of the
regulation you're passing downand in the same breath you're
passing resolutions or lawssaying federal government, screw
(48:57):
you, we're.
I don't know.
It doesn't connect.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
No it doesn't connect .
That's exactly right, itdoesn't.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Well, let's, let's end on something super positive.
What's, what are your?
What are you looking forward tothe most in the in the coming
year for for your city?
Are you looking forward to themost in the coming year for your
city?
Speaker 4 (49:14):
I am looking forward to getting the downtown
implementation plan done andsetting the vision for where we
can go.
I have to say and I told myteam this this morning I am so
proud of our employees in thecity of Napa.
We talked about that earlier.
One thing we didn't talk aboutis policing.
We implemented a ComSTATprogram I think it was before
2020, but just looking at thestats from 2020, well, 2018 to
(49:39):
today, we've reduced our class Acrimes, which is property
crimes, violent crimes againstpersons, against property and
violent crime, so that has gonedown by 28%.
Back in the day, nampa was, wedid have war crime across the
Treasure Valley, and it's one ofthe things that we fight with
the reputation.
We're not there today.
We are doing such an amazingjob.
(50:00):
We have a new integratedcommand center.
You should come tour it.
It is awesome.
I will.
It looks nicer than even what LAhas.
It is an incredible room withour real-time crime center.
The videos, the work that'sgetting done, it is so good and,
again, integrity is at the coreof everything we do.
(50:22):
We have a lot of good trainingfor our police officers.
So when I look to the city ofNampa and our future, we're
going in the right direction.
It's not easy, but we have goodpeople, and what makes community
amazing and what makes a citygreat, it's the people, it's
just the people.
And we have people that lean in.
(50:43):
And as long as we lean in in apositive sense, we come together
to say how do we solve thechallenges that we have ahead of
us?
Right, if we do that and thatis municipal government working
with the private sector, workingwith the nonprofit sector.
Right, we all have tocollaborate and work together,
and so I'm a champion of thatworking together,
(51:04):
collaboratively to where wefigure it out together.
We need to look forward withhope right to our future,
because we have a great futureahead.
And if we could get bogged downin the negativeness of what's
happening in the world around us?
But our city and for the cityof Nampa, I want to be a city
set on a hill whose light shines, and that is a focus for us,
(51:25):
and you know what we're going togo there.
We have great people, but whatmakes a community great is the
people.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
You dropped the mic on that.
I mean amen.
That was beautiful.
Thank you for your leadership,thank you for your friendship.
It's been I've known you a longtime and I just love.
I love watching you lead.
You're a great example to somany.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
Well, you are too.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
And I look forward to you winning this next election
and continuing your great workand it was great to have you on
and just get an update on allthings, nampa.
But thank you, mary.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Thank you and I hope I can turn it around on you,
because you have been a leaderleading in this entire Treasure
Valley and in our state and youknow what.
It's people like you doing thisand trying to make a difference
, inspiring leaders that makes adifference in our state.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Well, the coolest part I'm busy.
So people always say, why areyou still doing the podcast?
And I'm like this is why?
Because I think having a way,one, I love talking and catching
up with people that I love andrespect.
And secondly, it gives a wayfor people to hear more about
the great things going on, andwe do have so much positive, so
(52:38):
much positive, and we cometogether on things and that's
what makes Idaho great.
But you're, you're, you're,you're a pillar of that and we
love and appreciate you.
So thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (52:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Thanks, everybody Take care.
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