February 3, 2025 • 50 mins
Get ready for an exciting episode of Ever Onward as we sit down with Rebecca Hupp, the dynamic Airport Director of Boise Airport! With 14 years of visionary leadership, Rebecca has been at the helm of some major changes, and in this episode, we’re diving into the airport’s game-changing expansion. From new nonstop flights to a refreshed concession area featuring beloved local and national restaurants, this is an episode you won’t want to miss!
Join us as we explore how these big changes are shaping the travel experience in Boise, making it easier than ever to fly in and out of the city. Discover the exciting new destinations and the local dining options that are coming to the airport, giving travelers a taste of Boise before they even leave. We’ll also take a deep dive into how these expansions are supporting the airport’s rapid growth and positioning Boise as a hub for both business and leisure travel.
For our Ahlquist update, we’ll also hear from Mark Cleverley and Holt Haga of Ahlquist, who’ll share their insights into the Treasure Valley’s thriving office real estate market, despite national challenges. Plus, learn about the big plans ahead for the Boise Airport’s continued growth, including concourse expansions and runway developments that promise even more opportunities in the years to come.
This episode is packed with exciting updates on Boise’s future – from flights to food to future growth – and the leadership driving it all. Don’t miss out!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today on the Ever Onward podcast we have a
longtime friend and the airportdirector of the Boise Airport,
rebecca Hupp.
Rebecca is a transformationalleader here in the Treasure
Valley.
She's been running the airportfor 14 years now and all of the
growth, expansion and all of thefuture expansion has been
driven by her as the leaderthere.
We're really excited to haveher on and talk about how the
(00:21):
airport business runs and whatit means to the Treasure Valley
and all the great things she'sdone in her career here in Boise
.
Prior to hearing from RebeccaHupp, we're going to hear from
Mark Cleverley and Holt Hagathat'll talk about some new real
estate trends here in theTreasure Valley as part of the
AllQuest update.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Good morning.
We're here for another AllQuestupdate.
I'm Mark Cleverley.
I'm Chief Leasing Officer atAllQuest Holt Haga.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
VP of Leasing AllQuest Development yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So wanted to get together here real quick and
talk about the office market ingeneral and what we're going to
see for 2025.
I think 2024 for us was aninteresting year.
It was the national headlineswere offices dead.
All of a sudden, retail becamethe darling of real estate.
(01:13):
But we didn't necessarily seethat in our portfolio.
We went from I mean, we're 99%lease, We've got one space left
right.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
One space in our entire portfolio, about 6,000
feet, and we've got a lease thatwe're about to finalize here,
probably this week.
Yeah, we're going to be 100%lease.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
We need to start building some new buildings.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
It was interesting too last year 80,000 square feet
was delivered to the market inoffice right, 80,000 square feet
and that, and just for someperspective, I mean that's like,
uh, an eighth of what wasdelivered, uh, in the last you
know three years, kind of yearover year.
I mean it's it's a very, verysmall number.
Office was not.
(01:55):
Office just hasn't been built,or wasn't built last year, uh,
and we know why.
Yeah, you know there areobviously a lot of things
happened and you know we look atthe.
The general sort of thesiscoming out of COVID was, you
know, office is dead, like youtalked about, in a lot of
markets.
It it was, um, the primarymarkets got hammered, um, you
know it's, it's sort ofstabilized a little bit.
(02:16):
And I think, if you look at thenational headlines the last
time last I looked, you know, Q4of of or Q3 of 2024, I think it
was right around 20% nationally.
It's a lot higher than that insome markets, lower than that in
others.
Our market, we're veryfortunate because it's way lower
than that.
It's about half that.
And so it's a great question,because what's kind of coming is
(02:39):
the question that we all askourselves.
What's going to happen in 2025?
And I think a lot of it'sdriven by what you just said.
There just wasn't a lot builtso it's kept.
It's kept vacancy rates low.
You know the sublease shadowvacancy numbers that are kind of
hidden in that vacancy areburied in that vacancy number.
If you drill in you look alittle closer.
(03:00):
Those numbers are coming downas well.
And so I think that lack ofsupply is going to, you know,
continue to mask, you knowdemand in 2025.
And we're going to it should bea fairly robust market moving
forward.
I think we're pretty bullishand optimistic.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, we talked about it here a couple months ago on
an update.
But Amazon came out, saideverybody back to the office on
an update.
But Amazon came out, saideverybody back to the office.
President Trump just signed anexecutive order saying all
governmental offices back to theoffice, back to work, no more
work from home.
So I think that trend iscontinuing with a lot of
(03:38):
different groups and a lot ofdifferent companies.
And then you're hearing, youknow, economists say for the on
the office side we've kind ofbottomed out and now you're
going to see this next year it'sgoing to start rising again.
And, um, I think the lendingenvironment is one thing.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Lenders didn't want to lend on.
It got locked up.
Markets were locked up lastyear.
They wouldn't even look at it.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And I think that's going to probably hope,
hopefully break free a littlebit.
Um, it'll be.
It'll take some time, but, um,I think they'll start looking at
it again.
Um, especially now that thatworkers are are back right.
I mean, I just think, I thinkthat national trend is going to
continue to happen and it's um,those big markets are going to
see people back to the officeand hopefully some more vibrant
(04:25):
downtowns.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, and I think that's another great point too
is what type of office productis going to succeed.
I think our general narrativeis it's going to be a continued
flight to quality, as it's beensort of to this point.
But when you look at labortight labor markets and these
culture building like gettingpeople back to the office, those
trends aren't going to stop and, if anything, they've gotten
(04:46):
more constrained in terms of,like, the labor market, for
example, and so you know it'sgoing to be kind of the same
narrative and key factors, right, it's location, quality and
optimization, and I think that'sgoing to continue.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So yeah, great 2025,.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
right, let's go build some buildings.
Let's go, baby.
Let's get the next one out ofthe ground, all right.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Rebecca, thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
This will be fun.
I've I've uh known you.
We've known each other a longtime.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
About a decade, I would guess.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I think it's probably been about a decade and, uh,
what an amazing job.
Change like.
Think of everything that'shappened with the airport in
your time here.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I do think about that sometimes, and I try not to
think about it sometimes.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
We were together not too long ago and you had a line
where you said our 20-yearvision became our five-year work
plan, or something like that.
Yes, it was.
Our 20-year master plan becameour five-year work plan.
I can't wait to get into it.
But for people that don't knowyou, you are very involved in
(06:10):
leadership just generally in theTreasure Valley, and have been
since you took your position.
Almost everything that mattersyou're there, you're doing so.
It's not just the airport andthe airport is so integrated in
what we do.
But for those and you're on thechamber board you help with,
you're very involved with themilitary and Gowan Field we can
talk a little bit about that,but tell us a little bit about
your background and your familyand how you got to Boise.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Well, I was the airport director in Bangor,
maine, for 12 years and MayorBeder at the time recruited me
to come to Boise to be thedirector here me to come to
Boise to be the director hereand I moved my husband and my
two small children, who are nowgrown adults, to Boise and we've
(06:57):
been here since 2012.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And yeah, I just love this community, everything
about it, and happy to be partof it Maine to Boise.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
It's a little bit of a change, yes, and I would like
to point out that I started thetrend, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Tell us about that recruitment Like, what was that
like when you because where didyou grow up?
Back east.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I grew up in Massachusetts.
My husband and I both grew upin Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
That's what.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I thought, and so we had considered moving to Boise
previously and didn't at thetime, because our children were
even younger than they were atthe time that we moved.
And you know, when they came tome in 2012, it seemed like the
right time you had consideredcoming before.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Was that because of his work?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
No, because of my work.
They had tried to recruit mebefore.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Okay.
So, this was the second pass.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
It was the second pass and I try not to bring that
up too much, but yes, and itjust wasn't the right timing
earlier, just because mychildren were so small, and
anyway it was.
But in 2012, it was the righttime and the right move and the
right place and the rightposition and we've been grateful
(08:02):
ever since.
And now my children are grownand off doing their own things
and they're like wow, Boise is areally great place to live.
And I say to them yes, it is,that's why we moved here.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So go back to 2012, so 13 years ago now, which is
kind of crazy.
But if you think about it,you're post-recession but you
still aren't.
I mean it's interesting howquickly things change here.
I bring it up all the time butwe forget how deep that
recession cut here.
I mean it was bad.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
It was bad.
In fact, we were at about 1.2,1.3 million passengers a year
when I started, and it took usuntil 2018 to recover to 2008
numbers in terms of passengers.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So thinking about that, so big, big, deep
recession eight, but you come in12.
So four years after it started,and you still what was it
pre-recession?
Speaker 4 (09:00):
It was about, uh, just 3.8 total.
It was about just 3.8 total.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
So I think the first number I gave you I'm confusing,
I'm mixing my numbers.
So 1.2, 1.3 million, those werein plane mints Total passengers
in 2018, we got back up to justunder 4 million, so probably
3.8 million total passengers andplaned and de-planned.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And if you go back to the old Boise Airport, the big
thing is when they completed theinitial.
When I got here it was like alittle you could park in front
of the terminal.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
probably you could park in front of the terminal.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
It was just, in fact, I remember my first time I got
here, when I came up andinterviewed my story of coming
here, because it does involvethe airport a little bit I had
taken a job, I did my trainingin Tucson in residency and I had
a job sign and I was all doneand one of my buddies called me
and he's like you've got to tocheck out Boise and I'd lived in
(10:04):
Idaho and I knew Boise and I'mlike, okay, but it was winter
and I and I literally had thecontract done and I just hadn't
turned it back in and I saidI'll come up and I got here and
it was freezing cold and Iremember landing in the airport,
looking around, going, wow,this is.
And it was in the middle of asnowstorm and this little teeny
airport.
And it's my most vivid memoryof this decision, this big
(10:26):
decision I'm going to make.
And anyway, two days later Idecided I'm coming here because
a lot of reasons.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
You made the right choice.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
But the airport changed tremendously, and where
it's situated and how convenientit is and all those sort of
things.
Talk about some of theimprovements you've made and how
those go.
One other I'm going to ask youone other because there's a
couple of Rebecca Hupp quotesthat live in.
One time we were together andyou said we're really a parking
(10:54):
company.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Oh, did I say that?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
We do airport stuff really really well, but it's an
independent business, right.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
It is an independent business.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
It's completely independent and I don't think
people realize that.
So talk about the business ofthe airport a little bit.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Sure, so the Boise Airport is actually owned and
operated by the city of Boise,but we operate completely based
on airport revenue and, in fact,our largest revenue generator
is parking at the airport, andthat's probably what you're
alluding to and people don'trealize that.
But parking funds all of thestuff that we do in the terminal
(11:30):
and enables us to provideservices to our community.
So parking is incrediblyimportant to us.
And I think I do want to justmention when we talk about
growth.
So imagine pre-COVID we were at4.1 million passengers total.
Today, five years later, wedon't have our final numbers yet
(11:54):
, but we're probably going to bejust shy of 5 million
passengers.
So we have almost a millionmore people coming through the
airport today than we didpre-COVID.
So when you put that in aperspective and the fact that
you know to do a project.
It's a year, you know when youbuild a big project.
It's 12 months of construction,18 months of construction, maybe
(12:16):
24 months of construction.
You know we have a consolidatedrental car facility that's
going in right now and that'llbe a full two years of
construction, not counting thedesign time.
So you know we did add parkingbecause people come not only
from Boise but from all overIdaho and Eastern Oregon and you
(12:38):
know they're coming to Boise tofly.
So they're not just Boisepeople who are coming fly,
they're coming from all over theregion and all over the state.
So most of them come by car.
So we need to provide parking.
That's incredibly important tothe people who are using the
airport.
It is a revenue source for usthat allows us to make
improvements in our facilitiesand infrastructure.
(12:58):
You know you don't ever pay forthe signs that are in the
terminal, but they someone paysfor them.
We pay for those throughparking.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Wow.
So I'm going to I'm going toslow you down because I really
think it's fat.
The business of what you'retalking about is fascinating.
So it's completely separatebudget owned by the city, but
you run your own budget.
You are essentially the CEO andrun a business that is the
airport business.
That involves parking as yourtop line revenue, largest number
(13:27):
, and then fees associated withthe airlines and those sort of
things.
Talk us through kind of therevenue side of running an
airport.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Sure.
So we are owned and operated bythe city of Boise.
The city council does approveour budget and I do report to
the mayor and the chief of staff.
But when it comes to our budget, our top revenue is certainly
parking it's probably about athird of our revenue, followed
by rental cars, which is aboutanother 25%, and then the
(13:56):
airlines probably a little over20% of our revenue, but they're
probably third in line when youthink about the fees that they
pay for landing fees, rentingspace in the terminal.
And when people ask me aboutthe terminal, I explain to them
it's kind of like being a mall.
You know everyone is our tenant.
I often get asked do you getfree airline tickets?
No that would be a conflict ofinterest, sadly.
(14:17):
So.
No free airline tickets for anyof our airport employees.
But you know, we operate as alandlord, and so the airlines
are our tenants, the rental carsare our tenants, the
concessionaires are our tenants.
We have some really excitingimprovements coming up to our
concession program, which Iwould love to talk about, and so
(14:38):
those are some of the bigrevenue generators.
We also have a fair amount ofproperty around the airport.
The airport has about 5,000acres.
A couple thousand of those arededicated strictly to the
aviation infrastructure runways,taxiways, terminal, all the
infrastructure that goes alongwith the airport.
But we own a number ofproperties around the airport,
(15:00):
and so industrial development isan area where we're
diversifying our revenue, and wedid an RFP several years ago
for a developer, and so we'vepartnered with Mike Adler and
the Adler Company to developsome of our properties for
industrial property as well, andso that's great Talk about.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Well, there's so many things there.
There, literally, are so manyquestions.
I have cause I, I really amfascinated by this.
So so you did an expansionwhich was a major expansion last
time, where you had the newterminal, everything was new.
And then there was this idea.
You went out and kind ofamenitized it Back in the day.
I thought it was interesting.
You brought in Bardenet and youbrought in the other local
(15:42):
groups and kind of did that.
You're set for kind of a redoof a lot of things.
So talk a little bit aboutwhat's happening there and what
people will see in kind of theconcession side of it.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Yes.
So when we redid theconcessions last time, it was
2013.
So back in 2013, again, we had1.3 million inplanements.
This year we'll have almost 2.5million inplanements, almost 5
million total passengers.
So that's how many more peoplewe have going through that
facility, and we really haven'tupdated it substantially, other
(16:16):
than expanding the checkpoint,and so we're really excited.
We have our concessioncontracts, which are 10 years.
So an outside company comes in,invests capital into building
out the facilities at theairport so the Bardonnay, the
Einstein bagels and so we do arequest for proposals and we
base our decisions on a numberof factors.
(16:38):
Revenue is certainly one ofthem, investment in the facility
is another one, but alsocreating a sense of place and
making the Boise airport looklike Boise.
So when you land here or youdepart from here, you know that
you're in Boise, you're not ageneric airport.
You know that you're in Boise,you're not at generic airport X,
(17:00):
y, z and so we will have newconcessions coming in and Barden
A will stay, which I'm excitedabout.
But I'm really excited to seeEinstein's bagels be replaced
with Blue Sky Bagel, a localBoise favorite, and then we'll
also have the Waffle Me Up Idon't know if you've ever been
to their store over by theCapitol, but they do have a
storefront in downtown Boise.
Amazing waffles and breakfast isa big push at the airport
(17:26):
because most of our flightsleave early in the morning, so
breakfast is incrediblyimportant.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And what space are they going into?
No, there's going to be a newspace right in the food court.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
There's artwork there .
Going into where smash burgersno there's going to be a new
space right in the food court.
There's artwork there.
I don't know if you if you'vethought about it.
When you walk through, there'sthat wooden artwork that has
glass hanging from the ceilingthat is going to be converted
into waffle me up and the still,so we'll have both in that
rotunda area there hey, you'regetting some of my favorites.
(17:55):
This is great, so exciting smashburger is going to become
Wendy's.
Okay, a little more price point, friendly for people who are
traveling with families,employees and quick grab and go
really easy for Wendy's.
And then where Einstein's is isactually going to become a
Starbucks.
Oh great, so we will haveStarbucks.
(18:17):
I think that was the questionthat we got asked the most often
.
When are we getting a Starbucks?
So yes, we are getting aStarbucks.
Blue Sky Bagel is going to goin where it used to be called
Forever Heather.
There used to be a women'sclothing store over there.
So where Forever Heather was isgoing to be Blue Sky Bagel's
Protein Kitchen, which they havein the Salt Lake Airport, and
(18:40):
then Pizza Hut will be there.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Oh, so a lot more offerings.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
So many more offerings.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
And then down on B Concourse, where right now it's
River City that will be Flying M.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
And then on the lower level, in C, we're going to
have Talia Flights and Bites,okay, and Push and Pour.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
So we'll have a bar and snack area as well as the
coffee bar on C.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And Talia that's from Garden City.
Yes, oh great Longtime BoiseIdaho companies coming in.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
This is great.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
This is great.
When is all this scheduled tohappen?
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Our first phase is supposed to open early summer.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So they're starting.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Oh, they're starting, yes, and we should be complete
by the end of October of thisyear.
There's a lot of work to bedone.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
That's exciting.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
And an aggressive timeline, but we need it.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Those are big, big changes.
Well, you hit on it, but I dothink it's worth maybe spending
a little more time on it.
I think it is the front porchto Idaho for a lot of people.
It's where they come into.
It's the capital city, it's allof those things, and I think
you've always done a great jobof that, though, right, I mean,
(19:58):
I think when you travel allaround the country, it's just
always so nice to come home andbe here, and I mean it's just,
it's great.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
The airport really is a reflection of our community.
When you think about theairport and we are the front
door to our community it's thefirst place people see and it's
the last place people see, andso we want to make sure that it
creates a positive image ofBoise.
You know we don't want peoplethinking that we're just
potatoes in.
Idaho.
We have so many more thingsthat we can offer, and you know
(20:28):
whether it's our restrooms,which are incredibly clean
because we have a great staff.
Our team takes great pride inmaintaining our facilities and
keeping them updated.
We have great partnerships withthe Transportation Security
Administration, so when you gothrough Boise checkpoint, people
are friendly, yeah, and they'repolite.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And they're not everywhere.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
And they are not everywhere.
Yes, and so we do want to.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's kind of almost shocking, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Because we're just used to it here.
Then you go somewhere else andyou're like ah, this isn't.
I mean I don't want to bag on acouple other close
jurisdictions, but it's justdifferent, yes, it is different
and they're not too far from us,and I think some of that is
just comes from the top andattitude and some of it's
(21:17):
probably you're hiring.
Idahoans generally aren't Right.
They're friendlier, right.
The only negative I'm sittinghere thinking I'm going to have
to tell so we have a longtimefamily.
Were you ever a Seinfeld fan?
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I do remember Seinfeld.
Do you remember the?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
soup kitchen Nazi.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Oh yeah, no soup for you.
No soup for you.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So Einstein's Bagel had a guy that worked there.
His name was Dave.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Oh, I know, Dave.
Yes, so Einstein's Bagel had aguy that worked there.
His name was Dave.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Oh, I know Dave.
Yes, he's a little bit of acurmudgeon.
So he would walk up and he'dsay and then he had a very
serious way of taking your order.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
And he's very loud.
Very loud but he has to be.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And so my kids loved it.
So it was the highlight of usflying out is we knew we were
not just going to Einstein's,but we were going to see Dave.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
And.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I cannot tell you over the years how many times
it's and like when he's notthere it just starts the trip
off wrong Cause.
Like we can't go interact withDave.
I don't think he's thereanymore and they replaced when
they started doing theelectronic orders a couple of
years ago.
It was a big disappointment forus.
So anyway, when I go back andtell my family that Dave, it's
just got to be like the soupNazi.
(22:22):
It's going to be a memory thatgets locked in the Alquist vault
.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Well, the vendor that's providing our concessions
is staying the same, so they'reall provided by Delaware North
and Parity's, and so those willremain the same.
So many of the employees willcontinue on, even with the new
concession program.
And I always remember Dave,because my son's name is David
and so, yes, I will pass thatalong.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That's funny.
Yeah, Dave, if you happen tolisten to the podcast.
Thank you for taking good careof us for many, many years.
Hopefully we see you again Talka little bit about.
Can we talk parking a littlebit more Sure, Because there's a
couple of things I do think.
As you've grown, it's beenpretty interesting to watch how
efficient it is.
So latest addition was the newparking facility and how it
(23:10):
connects and everything's great.
Now you got employee parking.
Yes, so you've added how manystalls in the last couple of
years.
Now you've got employee parking.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Yes, so you've added how many stalls in the last
couple years 2,500.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And it's almost not enough.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Wow, yes, yes.
And the reason we're addingparking first?
Even though it is a revenuegenerator, that's not why we
added it first.
The reason we're adding parkingfirst is because, in order to
do the terminal expansion, wehave to relocate existing
parking.
So when you think about wherethe rental cars park today,
that's where the new concoursewill be.
(23:43):
And we can't build concourse Auntil we move those rental cars.
So they'll go into some of theparking so they will go into the
new garage that's underconstruction.
As you come in airport way, onthe right you see a new garage
that's going in next to andadjacent to the employee lot
employee garage.
That is a rental car facility,and so you'll still be able to
(24:05):
walk right out of the Boiseairport.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Which is super convenient right.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
And that was by design.
No one wants to get on ashuttle bus and go pick up a
rental car.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We were in San Diego two weeks ago.
By the way, thank you for thatdirect flight.
We'll talk about direct flightshere soon.
But what a difference, man.
I mean when you got to go, geton a bus and you go, and some
places are way more convenientthan others, or you go to like
even Spokane you have to walk,like if you land Alaska and
Spokane, you're walking.
I don't know how far.
(24:35):
It's a long ways to get towhere their rental car location
is.
Talk about the rental carfacility.
Does it accommodate everyone?
But when you do something likethis, you're probably projecting
how many years it's going toservice the airport.
Talk a little bit about thatfacility, because I think
there's a lot of peoplelistening that probably do
wonder.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Yes.
So yes, it will accommodateeveryone.
And the rental car countersthat are on the lower level,
those will also be located inthe garage, and so, if you
imagine, as you are a passenger,you will come down the
escalator there, pick up yourluggage and then go to the
rental car, instead of goinggetting your luggage and then
coming back and backtracking tothe counter and then going out
(25:18):
to the lot, and so this willhopefully be more convenient.
There will be a connectedwalkway that goes right to the
garage and it'll be seven levels.
The customer service facilitieswill be in the garage and the
ready return will be right there.
So, hopefully, super convenient.
We did issue bonds for that itwas.
(25:38):
It's about $120 million projectso, and it'll take about two
years to do.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
And is it under construction?
Speaker 4 (25:45):
It is under construction.
I think we're at about thethird level of a seven level
facility.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
What's going to happen down where the current
rental car desks are?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
That will be determined and as part of our
next master plan, we're lookingat some different options.
One thinking about how do wefacilitate passenger flow and
separate arriving and departingpassengers, so is there a
potential to have passengersarrive on that lower level
through that area?
Do we need more of that areafor baggage makeup and baggage
(26:16):
handling, more baggage peers?
So that will be part of ourmaster plan.
We're kicking off our nextmaster plan.
In fact, this year we justawarded a contract for that.
So our last 20-year master plan.
We're updating it to reflectthe work that we've done over
the last five years.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I want to ask you some questions about that, but I
do before we leave parkingawesome idea with the valet.
How hard of a decision was that?
Has it been successful?
Speaker 4 (26:44):
It was a pretty easy decision and it was necessitated
by demand because, you mayremember, we opened that new
garage in 2023, and we added1,200 new spaces.
We did not have enough parkingspace.
The last garage expansion thatwe did, in 2013, was supposed to
last us at least 10 yearsbefore we were going to have to
(27:07):
reopen the economy lot, and sowe had already outgrown the
parking garage, already outgrownthe economy lot, and we did not
have enough spaces.
And so I often make the jokewith my staff that not only did
we add parking, but we alsoprobably saved marriages,
because you can imagine, you getto the terminal and the garage
(27:30):
is full and you have two spousesyelling at each other.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I told you we should have gotten here earlier.
There was a time before therewas like this moment, where
there wasn't enough parking andyou didn't have valet yet for us
, that it was rough because youdidn't know for sure, right.
And then you would go park outthere, and it was yes.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I can.
You're welcome.
I can tell you that I was oneof those fights, yeah, so that's
a big deal.
I'll tell you what.
It's an incredible service.
It's unbelievable now andthey're so great and nice and
accommodating and so efficient.
It's just great.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
And it's the same vendor who operates the garages
downtown.
Yeah, and I would say a littleover a year ago we issued a
request for proposals forparking vendors to manage our
parking facility, because wedon't do that with our own team,
we actually contract that out.
So we have a managementcontract and we are using the
car park.
Car park yes, and so they'vebeen wonderful partners for us.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
We have a couple of downtown garages we own and
they're great, good, good people, that's great.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
There's probably some economies of scale there.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yes, I think it is, and they get it.
They do a wonderful job.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
How much flack have you gotten for moving the
waiting area oh my goodness, youknow it's interesting because
the things that are small arethe biggest, are the things that
have an outsize impact on thecommunity, and so it's
interesting because there'sdefinitely a group of people who
(29:00):
are opposed to the move thatwe've made with the cell phone
lot, and then there's otherpeople who are like what are you
talking about?
It's literally five minutesaway.
And it is literally fiveminutes away.
We just, you can't park at thecurb anymore in.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Boise, we're too big, so I use that a lot.
I'm probably one of the biggestusers because my son works
remotely here, but but he so hecomes back and forth every two
weeks and I pick him up everytime.
And when I heard it was moving,I'm like, oh, how's that going
to work, I guess for me.
I didn't know where, I knowwhere Curtis is, but I didn't
know Curtis was up here.
So when I first saw the address, I'm like Curtis, how's that
(29:38):
going to work?
And then I Googled where it was.
I'm like, oh, it's just rightthere.
It works fantastically, by theway.
Thank you Because by the timesomeone lands, I mean he'll text
me when he gets off the planeand you've got tons of time.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
I timed it.
When my husband got off theplane and I was picking him up,
it was 11 minutes from the timehe texted me that he landed,
till he walked out of thebuilding, in fact the argument
could be made you're still closeenough that you shouldn't leave
right away.
That is very true.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Because you're going to get there before they get
their bags.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yes, if they have bags, you're going to get there
before they pick up their bags.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
That's true.
I was just reading and hearingsome things and I'm like you
know it's super efficient andprobably where it should have
been all along and avoids thatwhole the line was never long
enough anyway.
Right, you had people back inthe aisle.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Oh, there was going to be an accident there.
We had accidents on the roadwayairport roadway and it was
definitely a danger, especiallyat peak times, and so I think
it's Well, it worksfantastically.
People it's changed.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
It's who moved my cheese right.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
The old book from however long ago.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, it is changed, it's just changed and it's like,
oh, it's different.
And then it's like, oh, thisworks great.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
And there's still things that we have to be
thinking about.
You know, as we talk about theconcourse expansion and
potentially adding up to 10 newgates, you know we're going to
be looking at.
We've expanded the checkpoint,but probably the next pinch
point is going to be the curbfront because, we're not adding
any curb front.
So how do we address that?
Because we're not adding anycurb front.
So how do we address that?
(31:16):
And where do we move differentpieces, so that way we can
continue to maintain ourseamless convenience for the
traveling public?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Before we get into kind of growth and vision.
So I don't forget this, becausethis is one of the things that
I find most fascinating.
I think people listening willreally enjoy hearing this
because since I heard itfirsthand from you, it makes so
much sense to me.
One of the things that I thinkI'm most proud about with you is
you are an advocate for the,the small businesses and
(31:45):
families in Idaho trying to maketheir lives better.
I mean, you just are, and theway that you do that best is
through direct flights, and Ibelieve you've, since you got
here, I think you've added 13,14?
I don't know 15, maybe 15?
.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
It probably was 13 when we talked about it.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
It's 15.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
But we've added more since we last chatted.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
So you add these direct flights and it really
changes things for travelersbusiness travelers, family
travelers.
It's just a big deal, and talkabout the work that goes into
that and some of the limitationsthat are there just because of
the way airlines works.
The most I'm going to ask youto kind of explain for our
(32:24):
audience.
But the one that gets everyoneis why doesn't Southwest go to
Salt Lake?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So those are two big questions.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Those are two big questions, and so I think when
we approach air service, there'sa couple of things we have to
think is, first and foremost,what is the demand?
You know, sometimes I'll getsomeone who'll say why don't we
have a nonstop to Wichita?
And I think because there'sonly three people a week who
want to go to Wichita no offenseto Wichita, but you know it is
(32:52):
the airlines are in business.
It's not a monopoly.
It's, you know, it's not agovernment subsidized service.
Generally.
I mean, there is essential airservice, but that's a completely
different topic for a different, a different podcast.
So it's you have to make abusiness case and we have to
look at where do they, where dopeople in Boise want to go and
(33:13):
who wants to come to Boise?
And then you have to lookbeyond that and say, based on
the airline and their strategyand their network, what makes
the most sense.
And so we have to recognizethat in Boise, you know, there's
a lot of places that we can getto really close.
You know Seattle, portland,salt Lake.
You know we have a number ofnonstop destinations to
(33:36):
California because of demand,because of proximity.
When you start looking east youhave to go a lot further to get
there.
So that means more aircrafttime, more crew time, more fuel,
and so the expense of thoseroutes gets higher and higher
the further you go.
So the airlines then spreadinga larger cost over the same
(33:56):
number of passengers, and so youreally have to make the case to
them that it's going to be notonly is it going to be full, but
it's and do you make the case?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yes, is that part of your pitch?
Speaker 4 (34:06):
So that would be part of my pitch, and I also have
people on my team who do thatspecific thing and over the time
we've evolved who does it, butI'm always directly involved in
air service, but it involvesdemographics and numbers and you
walk in and say, hey, this iswhy we think you'll be
successful, because here's ourdata.
Yes, it has to be backed by data.
The days of going into anairline and saying, hey, we have
(34:30):
a nice community, we think youshould come here, no pun
intended.
That doesn't fly anymore.
You have to have data and theylove to have other data that
they can't get from the DOT.
So, yes, it's interesting.
We've added I think we're up to27 nonstop destinations from
Boise today, and when I startedwe were at 12.
(34:52):
So, we've more than doubled thenumber of nonstop destinations
and when you look at ourconnectivity connectivity is key
because we can't fly to everysingle tiny community from Boise
, but if we have good access bygoing to Seattle or Salt Lake or
Denver or Chicago or Dallas orHouston, all of a sudden or most
(35:15):
recently, Atlanta- is a hugehub.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Atlanta was a big one .
Speaker 4 (35:19):
And it's also our furthest east hub, and delta was
very skeptical about doing itat first, and now we're up to
two flights a day oh wow, that'sgreat so so why so?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
so let's talk, maddie , hey, can you do it?
We, I wasn't going to do this,but look up, look up, if I want
to go fly to salt lake uh-ohtomorrow.
What it would cost me on DeltaSalt Lake is a problem.
And then the second biggest oneis Reno.
We started doing work in Reno,the bigger ones that are head
(35:50):
scratchers.
But you've explained thisbefore.
It has to do with a 737 and aSouthwest airline and how they
do their reboarding.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
Right, so Southwest only flies one aircraft.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
They fly the 737.
And there's different models ofit and different seat
configurations, but that's theonly aircraft that they fly.
So when you fly on one of ourother carriers, say you
mentioned.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Delta or Alaska, or whatever.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
They also have smaller regional jets and so the
market, for example from Boiseto Reno, probably isn't going to
support a couple hundred people.
We did have Reno back in theday with Southwest, but that was
a very different environmentwhere load factors were not as
high, fuel costs were not ashigh and labor costs were not as
(36:41):
high.
So you could have fewerpassengers because your costs
were lower.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
But once those passengers on a 737 dip, then it
just doesn't happen.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
It doesn't make sense .
You have to have more thanprobably an 80% load factor to
have a route be successful.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
So that's not horrible.
That's March.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Go sooner than that, though we're cheating here.
That's 389 round trip 389 roundtrip.
It's not.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
That does not seem bad.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That does not seem bad compared to try to fly like
next week.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Anytime you try to fly on a very short timeline,
you're always going to pay apremium.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Every single time, no matter which airline it is, no
but except for like going.
So where we go, a lot forbusiness we go to.
Spokane a lot.
We go to Salt Lake a lot andwe've been trying to go to Reno.
We actually stopped.
It's such a pain to fly to Reno.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
I'll mention that to my airline by the time you go.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
By the time you go, you know we, we drive, and then
that's got its own deal right.
But all right, here you go.
So what, what is it like?
That's not bad, hey, rebeccalook all right, we've had good
news on the movie of the uh ofthe cell phone area.
Now and now it's not horrible,but that is why they don't fly
(38:01):
there, right.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yes, it has to do with.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
You've got Delta kind of, is the main Salt Lake
direct flight.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Delta has a hub in Salt Lake, and so whenever
you're flying to and from anairline's hub, I think your
costs are always going to behigher.
I would note that several yearsago, alaska did have service to
Salt Lake and added competition, and I think what happened is
many people just continued tofly Delta and so so then they
stopped doing it, and so thenyou know.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Spokane has remained very inexpensive.
Why Spokane is always great.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Again, that's primarily in Alaska route back
and forth, and I think thatSmaller planes.
Smaller planes.
Again, that's primarily anAlaska route back and forth and
I think that smaller planes andBoise is a focus city for Alaska
Airlines and so they do tend toflow traffic between Spokane
and Boise.
And also Alaska has introducedsome other nonstops from Boise,
(38:56):
including Bozeman, orlando,sacramento, orange County.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Oh, there's a nonstop to Bozeman now.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
There's a nonstop.
It's seasonal.
It started December 19th.
It's performing very, very wellas well, as the Orlando flight
started in January and that'scontinuing to perform very well.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
For our listeners.
What are some of the latestones?
Because I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Bozeman, Bozeman was the most recent one and Orlando
were the most recent ones, andthen the other ones have
primarily been additionalfrequencies on existing routes
or larger aircraft.
But you know, to your questionabout growing air service, one
of the ways we grow air serviceis by the introduction of
seasonal service.
That then the season getslonger and longer until it's
(39:43):
year round.
Or in the case of Atlanta, weadded one frequency.
It performed really well.
They added a second frequencyand that's how you grow air
service.
I mean, the days of bringing ina new airline are pretty slim.
There's not that many airlinesout there we have well, you
touched on that for us.
So right now you have the bigones and are they doing pretty
well again yes, they are doingvery well in boise, I think
(40:06):
nationwide.
I think we need to continue tomonitor the airline industry
because they are seeingtremendous increases in costs.
One, they're having a challengegetting aircraft delivered, so
aircraft delivery is limitingcapacity, but also higher crew
costs.
If you remember, during COVID alot of airlines opted for
offered early retirement options.
(40:27):
Many people took them.
You can't just replace a pilot.
You know the same way off thestreet that you might replace
someone else, so there's kind ofa lag time.
So we've had an increase increw costs, increase in fuel
costs, so all of those thingsadd up.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
But you have so you have Delta, so we have Delta
United, we have Alaska, alaska.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
Yeah, alaska, american, delta, united,
southwest.
Those are all of the maincarriers.
Those carriers together,nationwide represent about 85%
of the market share for domestictravel.
So when you think about who'sleft, there's not a lot of other
players.
So we also have Allegiant, wehave Spirit, we have Avello and
(41:17):
we have Sun Country, seasonallyoperating from Boise.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Okay, Great, well, that's awesome.
So we have nine airlines, sothe days of bringing in another
airline.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
there's pretty limited options.
I mean, what's out there?
We have JetBlue.
Frontier Breeze is a newlow-cost carrier.
That's maybe a potential, butopportunities are pretty limited
for bringing in new carriersand then as far as Idaho travel.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Idaho Falls to Boise.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
We did have that service briefly again with
Alaska.
It was not, it wasn'tprofitable, it didn't break even
.
We do have service to Lewistonand also to Moscow.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Yeah, my kids used to .
Here's a scary airline story.
So my kids used to.
My son was a jazz guitarist andthey would go to the Lionel
Hampton Music Festival up in theUniversity of Idaho in the
winter and we had a really tightturnaround time.
So we flew, flew and it was thescariest commercial island
flight we've ever been on.
It was Alaska, but it.
It was crazy.
(42:26):
But we ended up making it andback, but yeah, I, that's the
only time.
And we landed in Lewiston andthen you, you stayed on the
plane and then you landed inMoscow.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
It uh yeah, that's one thing worth noting.
Uh, several years ago in Boiseand you may have experienced
this but not known what happenedbut we upgraded our instrument
landing system, so now you canland in Boise in very, very low
visibility because of thetechnology that we have.
Oh, I didn't know that, and soyou probably remember back in
the day flying into Boise,getting here and having them say
(42:57):
visibility is not good enough,we're going to divert and go
back to Salt Lake.
I don't know if you've noticedor wherever you're, you know.
Whatever the closest diversionwould be.
Uh, now we have bettertechnology and better
instrumentation and that's whyit does.
I won't say it never happens,but it doesn't happen as much as
it used to.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Let's talk expansion.
So, so many people may not.
So you have two runways, butyou have a third runway.
That is functional, right, youuse it now for training and
other things.
Right, and it's on the Southside of Gowan.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
It is.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
So, and and you, just you started by saying hey our
20 year master plan became ourfive-year work plan.
So, we're in the.
You're doing your new 20 yearplan.
Became our five-year work plan,so you're doing your new
20-year plan.
What are the next big?
Speaker 4 (43:43):
things for the airport.
Well, the next big thing isgoing to be the concourse
expansion, and so, if you canpicture it, as you go through
the terminal checkpoint, most ofthe time you're going to the
left to go to concourse B oryou're going to the lower level,
which is concourse C.
If you look to your right,there's nothing there.
You know, over by Barden A,that is where Concourse A will
(44:05):
be, and so we're working on thedesign for up to 10 new aircraft
parking positions.
So we're going to startconstruction this spring on an
aircraft parking apron becausethat's going to be the first
piece of that.
We can't do all of the workagain, as I mentioned, because
(44:25):
we have rental cars there and wealso have construction going on
there in that area for the newrental car garage, but that will
be the next thing that we'reworking on is the concourse.
We have a number of airfieldprojects that we're doing that
will enable commercialdevelopment, for commercial
hangars, corporate hangars thatwe're working on.
(44:46):
We have a number of airfieldprojects taxiway realignments,
construction, runway overlays.
The third runway that youmentioned is probably at least
10 years out.
When we did our last masterplan, it was what we considered
to be beyond the planninghorizon, so beyond 20 years.
(45:07):
I think this time we'll seethat it will be within the
planning horizon, in partbecause of the growth that we're
seeing, in part because of therunway configuration that we
have, but that runway iscompletely separate from the
rest of the airfield, meaningthere's no taxiway.
So you could land there but youcan't get back to the terminal.
So, to put it in perspective,when we looked at it, probably
(45:31):
in 2015, 2016, it was about $100million to build the bridge
over Gowan Road to get to thatthird runway.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Every once in a while , I will hear someone say that
you would like the runway to belonger.
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (45:51):
The third runway is shorter than the other two.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
yes, but the other two are the same thing, the
other two we can land just aboutany size aircraft.
And the other one's the one.
And then one other big questionon your expansion A lot of
cities.
It's got to be hard becausewhen you start a city you're
probably not thinking 50 yearsahead, right, Right, or 100
(46:15):
years ahead, head.
We've been pretty luckycompared to a lot of other
places because you have had realthoughtful growth plans and you
have a lot of property south ofGowan In your 50-year timeline
is our location of our airport.
This is where it's going to be,versus some of these other
(46:37):
cities that have to just movelocations because of growth.
What does that look like inyour mind?
Speaker 4 (46:43):
I think our city has done a phenomenal job of
planning ahead and ensuring theproper zoning.
We do have a very few number ofhomes that are within our what
we call our 65 day night noiselevel, which is the decibel
reading.
And you know, we have probablya couple hundred homes that were
(47:05):
built before we had the properzoning in place.
But for the most part most ofthe homes are outside of what we
would consider to be our impactarea for noise.
And even around, as youmentioned, around that third
runway, we own substantialproperty to the south, and we've
(47:28):
purchased property both eastand west of the airport.
So we're in great shape.
We're in great shape.
I don't envision us moving theBoise airport.
We have so much investment ininfrastructure into the airport.
We have proper zoning aroundthe airport.
I think it's important that wecontinue to maintain that zoning
and that we hold fast on, youknow, not allowing encroachment,
(47:50):
which is very hard when youhave a housing shortage in your
community, but it is importantthat we maintain that zoning so
that way we can continue to keepthe airport where it is.
I think that's one of thegreatest things about Boise is
you can literally be downtown in10 minutes from the airport.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yeah, I mean, it's incredible, it's just and I do
think you've said it, but let mesay it again I think there's
been really good, thoughtfulleadership for a long time.
That lands us in some of thesepositions we find ourselves in
and we probably don't stop andlook back enough and say, wow,
that was a good job, that wasgreat.
Well, you've been an incredibleleader.
(48:30):
Hey, I know you're passionate.
This time has gone by way, waytoo fast.
But I know you're superpassionate about Treasure Valley
, about Idaho, about what goeson here.
Treasure Valley, about Idaho,about what goes on here.
I know you're involved in a lotof things.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
What does this place mean to you and your family?
Well, it's interesting becauseI think I mentioned to you at
the beginning of this that wedidn't move when we first
considered it, probably in 2008,2009.
And I thought, wow, I'm notsure about relocating, you know,
being from New England, but myfamily and I just love it here.
This is, you know, this hasbeen our home for the last 13
(49:09):
years.
This is where we raised ourchildren.
And you know, we've had otherfamily members who've moved to
Boise because we moved to Boiseand they came here and they were
like, oh, who've moved to Boisebecause we moved to Boise and
they came here and they werelike, oh, boise is a really nice
place.
I didn't know.
So, um, yeah, boise is a veryspecial place.
We love all the things thatBoise offers, whether it's, you
(49:30):
know, skiing or hiking.
I love the green belt, you know, just being able to go out and
walk my dog on the green belt.
All the parks that we offerhave to offer here in our
community.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
It really is incredible place.
It is a very special place,well rebecca like.
But the one amenity that makesthis so great is the airport,
and and thank you.
I've been wanting to have youon for a long time, just because
it's awesome for people to knowhow much planning and
thoughtful leadership goes intohaving we take it for granted.
I mean, you come in, you in,you leave, you go out, but it's
(50:01):
so.
You just have to fly anywhereelse in the country to realize
how special that part of ourcity is, and it is because of
great leadership.
It's because of you and I don'tsay this lightly.
I've been around a lot ofleaders.
You're incredible.
Speaker 4 (50:16):
So thank you for what you do, for your example, for
the time you provide from from aleadership perspective to make
this place great well, thank youfor your leadership because you
certainly have had a tremendousimpact on our region, in our
community and you know, I knowyou've jokingly said that you're
going to always be rememberedfor top golf, but uh, so many
(50:37):
other projects that it willalways be top golf though, right
, I mean, uh, okay, rebecca,thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Uh, really appreciate it, and if there's anything we
can ever do for you, let us know.
But uh, this was great,appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
Thank you so much Thanks everybody.
Today on the Ever Onward podcast we have a
longtime friend and the airportdirector of the Boise Airport,
rebecca Hupp.
Rebecca is a transformationalleader here in the Treasure
Valley.
She's been running the airportfor 14 years now and all of the
growth, expansion and all of thefuture expansion has been
driven by her as the leaderthere.
We're really excited to haveher on and talk about how the
(00:21):
airport business runs and whatit means to the Treasure Valley
and all the great things she'sdone in her career here in Boise
.
Prior to hearing from RebeccaHupp, we're going to hear from
Mark Cleverley and Holt Hagathat'll talk about some new real
estate trends here in theTreasure Valley as part of the
AllQuest update.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Good morning.
We're here for another AllQuestupdate.
I'm Mark Cleverley.
I'm Chief Leasing Officer atAllQuest Holt Haga.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
VP of Leasing AllQuest Development yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So wanted to get together here real quick and
talk about the office market ingeneral and what we're going to
see for 2025.
I think 2024 for us was aninteresting year.
It was the national headlineswere offices dead.
All of a sudden, retail becamethe darling of real estate.
(01:13):
But we didn't necessarily seethat in our portfolio.
We went from I mean, we're 99%lease, We've got one space left
right.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
One space in our entire portfolio, about 6,000
feet, and we've got a lease thatwe're about to finalize here,
probably this week.
Yeah, we're going to be 100%lease.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
We need to start building some new buildings.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
It was interesting too last year 80,000 square feet
was delivered to the market inoffice right, 80,000 square feet
and that, and just for someperspective, I mean that's like,
uh, an eighth of what wasdelivered, uh, in the last you
know three years, kind of yearover year.
I mean it's it's a very, verysmall number.
Office was not.
(01:55):
Office just hasn't been built,or wasn't built last year, uh,
and we know why.
Yeah, you know there areobviously a lot of things
happened and you know we look atthe.
The general sort of thesiscoming out of COVID was, you
know, office is dead, like youtalked about, in a lot of
markets.
It it was, um, the primarymarkets got hammered, um, you
know it's, it's sort ofstabilized a little bit.
(02:16):
And I think, if you look at thenational headlines the last
time last I looked, you know, Q4of of or Q3 of 2024, I think it
was right around 20% nationally.
It's a lot higher than that insome markets, lower than that in
others.
Our market, we're veryfortunate because it's way lower
than that.
It's about half that.
And so it's a great question,because what's kind of coming is
(02:39):
the question that we all askourselves.
What's going to happen in 2025?
And I think a lot of it'sdriven by what you just said.
There just wasn't a lot builtso it's kept.
It's kept vacancy rates low.
You know the sublease shadowvacancy numbers that are kind of
hidden in that vacancy areburied in that vacancy number.
If you drill in you look alittle closer.
(03:00):
Those numbers are coming downas well.
And so I think that lack ofsupply is going to, you know,
continue to mask, you knowdemand in 2025.
And we're going to it should bea fairly robust market moving
forward.
I think we're pretty bullishand optimistic.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, we talked about it here a couple months ago on
an update.
But Amazon came out, saideverybody back to the office on
an update.
But Amazon came out, saideverybody back to the office.
President Trump just signed anexecutive order saying all
governmental offices back to theoffice, back to work, no more
work from home.
So I think that trend iscontinuing with a lot of
(03:38):
different groups and a lot ofdifferent companies.
And then you're hearing, youknow, economists say for the on
the office side we've kind ofbottomed out and now you're
going to see this next year it'sgoing to start rising again.
And, um, I think the lendingenvironment is one thing.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Lenders didn't want to lend on.
It got locked up.
Markets were locked up lastyear.
They wouldn't even look at it.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And I think that's going to probably hope,
hopefully break free a littlebit.
Um, it'll be.
It'll take some time, but, um,I think they'll start looking at
it again.
Um, especially now that thatworkers are are back right.
I mean, I just think, I thinkthat national trend is going to
continue to happen and it's um,those big markets are going to
see people back to the officeand hopefully some more vibrant
(04:25):
downtowns.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, and I think that's another great point too
is what type of office productis going to succeed.
I think our general narrativeis it's going to be a continued
flight to quality, as it's beensort of to this point.
But when you look at labortight labor markets and these
culture building like gettingpeople back to the office, those
trends aren't going to stop and, if anything, they've gotten
(04:46):
more constrained in terms of,like, the labor market, for
example, and so you know it'sgoing to be kind of the same
narrative and key factors, right, it's location, quality and
optimization, and I think that'sgoing to continue.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So yeah, great 2025,.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
right, let's go build some buildings.
Let's go, baby.
Let's get the next one out ofthe ground, all right.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Rebecca, thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
This will be fun.
I've I've uh known you.
We've known each other a longtime.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
About a decade, I would guess.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I think it's probably been about a decade and, uh,
what an amazing job.
Change like.
Think of everything that'shappened with the airport in
your time here.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I do think about that sometimes, and I try not to
think about it sometimes.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
We were together not too long ago and you had a line
where you said our 20-yearvision became our five-year work
plan, or something like that.
Yes, it was.
Our 20-year master plan becameour five-year work plan.
I can't wait to get into it.
But for people that don't knowyou, you are very involved in
(06:10):
leadership just generally in theTreasure Valley, and have been
since you took your position.
Almost everything that mattersyou're there, you're doing so.
It's not just the airport andthe airport is so integrated in
what we do.
But for those and you're on thechamber board you help with,
you're very involved with themilitary and Gowan Field we can
talk a little bit about that,but tell us a little bit about
your background and your familyand how you got to Boise.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Well, I was the airport director in Bangor,
maine, for 12 years and MayorBeder at the time recruited me
to come to Boise to be thedirector here me to come to
Boise to be the director hereand I moved my husband and my
two small children, who are nowgrown adults, to Boise and we've
(06:57):
been here since 2012.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And yeah, I just love this community, everything
about it, and happy to be partof it Maine to Boise.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
It's a little bit of a change, yes, and I would like
to point out that I started thetrend, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Tell us about that recruitment Like, what was that
like when you because where didyou grow up?
Back east.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I grew up in Massachusetts.
My husband and I both grew upin Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
That's what.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I thought, and so we had considered moving to Boise
previously and didn't at thetime, because our children were
even younger than they were atthe time that we moved.
And you know, when they came tome in 2012, it seemed like the
right time you had consideredcoming before.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Was that because of his work?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
No, because of my work.
They had tried to recruit mebefore.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Okay.
So, this was the second pass.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
It was the second pass and I try not to bring that
up too much, but yes, and itjust wasn't the right timing
earlier, just because mychildren were so small, and
anyway it was.
But in 2012, it was the righttime and the right move and the
right place and the rightposition and we've been grateful
(08:02):
ever since.
And now my children are grownand off doing their own things
and they're like wow, Boise is areally great place to live.
And I say to them yes, it is,that's why we moved here.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So go back to 2012, so 13 years ago now, which is
kind of crazy.
But if you think about it,you're post-recession but you
still aren't.
I mean it's interesting howquickly things change here.
I bring it up all the time butwe forget how deep that
recession cut here.
I mean it was bad.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
It was bad.
In fact, we were at about 1.2,1.3 million passengers a year
when I started, and it took usuntil 2018 to recover to 2008
numbers in terms of passengers.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So thinking about that, so big, big, deep
recession eight, but you come in12.
So four years after it started,and you still what was it
pre-recession?
Speaker 4 (09:00):
It was about, uh, just 3.8 total.
It was about just 3.8 total.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
So I think the first number I gave you I'm confusing,
I'm mixing my numbers.
So 1.2, 1.3 million, those werein plane mints Total passengers
in 2018, we got back up to justunder 4 million, so probably
3.8 million total passengers andplaned and de-planned.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And if you go back to the old Boise Airport, the big
thing is when they completed theinitial.
When I got here it was like alittle you could park in front
of the terminal.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
probably you could park in front of the terminal.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
It was just, in fact, I remember my first time I got
here, when I came up andinterviewed my story of coming
here, because it does involvethe airport a little bit I had
taken a job, I did my trainingin Tucson in residency and I had
a job sign and I was all doneand one of my buddies called me
and he's like you've got to tocheck out Boise and I'd lived in
(10:04):
Idaho and I knew Boise and I'mlike, okay, but it was winter
and I and I literally had thecontract done and I just hadn't
turned it back in and I saidI'll come up and I got here and
it was freezing cold and Iremember landing in the airport,
looking around, going, wow,this is.
And it was in the middle of asnowstorm and this little teeny
airport.
And it's my most vivid memoryof this decision, this big
(10:26):
decision I'm going to make.
And anyway, two days later Idecided I'm coming here because
a lot of reasons.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
You made the right choice.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
But the airport changed tremendously, and where
it's situated and how convenientit is and all those sort of
things.
Talk about some of theimprovements you've made and how
those go.
One other I'm going to ask youone other because there's a
couple of Rebecca Hupp quotesthat live in.
One time we were together andyou said we're really a parking
(10:54):
company.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Oh, did I say that?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
We do airport stuff really really well, but it's an
independent business, right.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
It is an independent business.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
It's completely independent and I don't think
people realize that.
So talk about the business ofthe airport a little bit.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Sure, so the Boise Airport is actually owned and
operated by the city of Boise,but we operate completely based
on airport revenue and, in fact,our largest revenue generator
is parking at the airport, andthat's probably what you're
alluding to and people don'trealize that.
But parking funds all of thestuff that we do in the terminal
(11:30):
and enables us to provideservices to our community.
So parking is incrediblyimportant to us.
And I think I do want to justmention when we talk about
growth.
So imagine pre-COVID we were at4.1 million passengers total.
Today, five years later, wedon't have our final numbers yet
(11:54):
, but we're probably going to bejust shy of 5 million
passengers.
So we have almost a millionmore people coming through the
airport today than we didpre-COVID.
So when you put that in aperspective and the fact that
you know to do a project.
It's a year, you know when youbuild a big project.
It's 12 months of construction,18 months of construction, maybe
(12:16):
24 months of construction.
You know we have a consolidatedrental car facility that's
going in right now and that'llbe a full two years of
construction, not counting thedesign time.
So you know we did add parkingbecause people come not only
from Boise but from all overIdaho and Eastern Oregon and you
(12:38):
know they're coming to Boise tofly.
So they're not just Boisepeople who are coming fly,
they're coming from all over theregion and all over the state.
So most of them come by car.
So we need to provide parking.
That's incredibly important tothe people who are using the
airport.
It is a revenue source for usthat allows us to make
improvements in our facilitiesand infrastructure.
(12:58):
You know you don't ever pay forthe signs that are in the
terminal, but they someone paysfor them.
We pay for those throughparking.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Wow.
So I'm going to I'm going toslow you down because I really
think it's fat.
The business of what you'retalking about is fascinating.
So it's completely separatebudget owned by the city, but
you run your own budget.
You are essentially the CEO andrun a business that is the
airport business.
That involves parking as yourtop line revenue, largest number
(13:27):
, and then fees associated withthe airlines and those sort of
things.
Talk us through kind of therevenue side of running an
airport.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Sure.
So we are owned and operated bythe city of Boise.
The city council does approveour budget and I do report to
the mayor and the chief of staff.
But when it comes to our budget, our top revenue is certainly
parking it's probably about athird of our revenue, followed
by rental cars, which is aboutanother 25%, and then the
(13:56):
airlines probably a little over20% of our revenue, but they're
probably third in line when youthink about the fees that they
pay for landing fees, rentingspace in the terminal.
And when people ask me aboutthe terminal, I explain to them
it's kind of like being a mall.
You know everyone is our tenant.
I often get asked do you getfree airline tickets?
No that would be a conflict ofinterest, sadly.
(14:17):
So.
No free airline tickets for anyof our airport employees.
But you know, we operate as alandlord, and so the airlines
are our tenants, the rental carsare our tenants, the
concessionaires are our tenants.
We have some really excitingimprovements coming up to our
concession program, which Iwould love to talk about, and so
(14:38):
those are some of the bigrevenue generators.
We also have a fair amount ofproperty around the airport.
The airport has about 5,000acres.
A couple thousand of those arededicated strictly to the
aviation infrastructure runways,taxiways, terminal, all the
infrastructure that goes alongwith the airport.
But we own a number ofproperties around the airport,
(15:00):
and so industrial development isan area where we're
diversifying our revenue, and wedid an RFP several years ago
for a developer, and so we'vepartnered with Mike Adler and
the Adler Company to developsome of our properties for
industrial property as well, andso that's great Talk about.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Well, there's so many things there.
There, literally, are so manyquestions.
I have cause I, I really amfascinated by this.
So so you did an expansionwhich was a major expansion last
time, where you had the newterminal, everything was new.
And then there was this idea.
You went out and kind ofamenitized it Back in the day.
I thought it was interesting.
You brought in Bardenet and youbrought in the other local
(15:42):
groups and kind of did that.
You're set for kind of a redoof a lot of things.
So talk a little bit aboutwhat's happening there and what
people will see in kind of theconcession side of it.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Yes.
So when we redid theconcessions last time, it was
2013.
So back in 2013, again, we had1.3 million inplanements.
This year we'll have almost 2.5million inplanements, almost 5
million total passengers.
So that's how many more peoplewe have going through that
facility, and we really haven'tupdated it substantially, other
(16:16):
than expanding the checkpoint,and so we're really excited.
We have our concessioncontracts, which are 10 years.
So an outside company comes in,invests capital into building
out the facilities at theairport so the Bardonnay, the
Einstein bagels and so we do arequest for proposals and we
base our decisions on a numberof factors.
(16:38):
Revenue is certainly one ofthem, investment in the facility
is another one, but alsocreating a sense of place and
making the Boise airport looklike Boise.
So when you land here or youdepart from here, you know that
you're in Boise, you're not ageneric airport.
You know that you're in Boise,you're not at generic airport X,
(17:00):
y, z and so we will have newconcessions coming in and Barden
A will stay, which I'm excitedabout.
But I'm really excited to seeEinstein's bagels be replaced
with Blue Sky Bagel, a localBoise favorite, and then we'll
also have the Waffle Me Up Idon't know if you've ever been
to their store over by theCapitol, but they do have a
storefront in downtown Boise.
Amazing waffles and breakfast isa big push at the airport
(17:26):
because most of our flightsleave early in the morning, so
breakfast is incrediblyimportant.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And what space are they going into?
No, there's going to be a newspace right in the food court.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
There's artwork there .
Going into where smash burgersno there's going to be a new
space right in the food court.
There's artwork there.
I don't know if you if you'vethought about it.
When you walk through, there'sthat wooden artwork that has
glass hanging from the ceilingthat is going to be converted
into waffle me up and the still,so we'll have both in that
rotunda area there hey, you'regetting some of my favorites.
(17:55):
This is great, so exciting smashburger is going to become
Wendy's.
Okay, a little more price point, friendly for people who are
traveling with families,employees and quick grab and go
really easy for Wendy's.
And then where Einstein's is isactually going to become a
Starbucks.
Oh great, so we will haveStarbucks.
(18:17):
I think that was the questionthat we got asked the most often
.
When are we getting a Starbucks?
So yes, we are getting aStarbucks.
Blue Sky Bagel is going to goin where it used to be called
Forever Heather.
There used to be a women'sclothing store over there.
So where Forever Heather was isgoing to be Blue Sky Bagel's
Protein Kitchen, which they havein the Salt Lake Airport, and
(18:40):
then Pizza Hut will be there.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Oh, so a lot more offerings.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
So many more offerings.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
And then down on B Concourse, where right now it's
River City that will be Flying M.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
And then on the lower level, in C, we're going to
have Talia Flights and Bites,okay, and Push and Pour.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
So we'll have a bar and snack area as well as the
coffee bar on C.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And Talia that's from Garden City.
Yes, oh great Longtime BoiseIdaho companies coming in.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
This is great.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
This is great.
When is all this scheduled tohappen?
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Our first phase is supposed to open early summer.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So they're starting.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Oh, they're starting, yes, and we should be complete
by the end of October of thisyear.
There's a lot of work to bedone.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
That's exciting.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
And an aggressive timeline, but we need it.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Those are big, big changes.
Well, you hit on it, but I dothink it's worth maybe spending
a little more time on it.
I think it is the front porchto Idaho for a lot of people.
It's where they come into.
It's the capital city, it's allof those things, and I think
you've always done a great jobof that, though, right, I mean,
(19:58):
I think when you travel allaround the country, it's just
always so nice to come home andbe here, and I mean it's just,
it's great.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
The airport really is a reflection of our community.
When you think about theairport and we are the front
door to our community it's thefirst place people see and it's
the last place people see, andso we want to make sure that it
creates a positive image ofBoise.
You know we don't want peoplethinking that we're just
potatoes in.
Idaho.
We have so many more thingsthat we can offer, and you know
(20:28):
whether it's our restrooms,which are incredibly clean
because we have a great staff.
Our team takes great pride inmaintaining our facilities and
keeping them updated.
We have great partnerships withthe Transportation Security
Administration, so when you gothrough Boise checkpoint, people
are friendly, yeah, and they'repolite.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And they're not everywhere.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
And they are not everywhere.
Yes, and so we do want to.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's kind of almost shocking, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Because we're just used to it here.
Then you go somewhere else andyou're like ah, this isn't.
I mean I don't want to bag on acouple other close
jurisdictions, but it's justdifferent, yes, it is different
and they're not too far from us,and I think some of that is
just comes from the top andattitude and some of it's
(21:17):
probably you're hiring.
Idahoans generally aren't Right.
They're friendlier, right.
The only negative I'm sittinghere thinking I'm going to have
to tell so we have a longtimefamily.
Were you ever a Seinfeld fan?
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I do remember Seinfeld.
Do you remember the?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
soup kitchen Nazi.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Oh yeah, no soup for you.
No soup for you.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So Einstein's Bagel had a guy that worked there.
His name was Dave.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Oh, I know, Dave.
Yes, so Einstein's Bagel had aguy that worked there.
His name was Dave.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Oh, I know Dave.
Yes, he's a little bit of acurmudgeon.
So he would walk up and he'dsay and then he had a very
serious way of taking your order.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
And he's very loud.
Very loud but he has to be.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And so my kids loved it.
So it was the highlight of usflying out is we knew we were
not just going to Einstein's,but we were going to see Dave.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
And.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I cannot tell you over the years how many times
it's and like when he's notthere it just starts the trip
off wrong Cause.
Like we can't go interact withDave.
I don't think he's thereanymore and they replaced when
they started doing theelectronic orders a couple of
years ago.
It was a big disappointment forus.
So anyway, when I go back andtell my family that Dave, it's
just got to be like the soupNazi.
(22:22):
It's going to be a memory thatgets locked in the Alquist vault
.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Well, the vendor that's providing our concessions
is staying the same, so they'reall provided by Delaware North
and Parity's, and so those willremain the same.
So many of the employees willcontinue on, even with the new
concession program.
And I always remember Dave,because my son's name is David
and so, yes, I will pass thatalong.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That's funny.
Yeah, Dave, if you happen tolisten to the podcast.
Thank you for taking good careof us for many, many years.
Hopefully we see you again Talka little bit about.
Can we talk parking a littlebit more Sure, Because there's a
couple of things I do think.
As you've grown, it's beenpretty interesting to watch how
efficient it is.
So latest addition was the newparking facility and how it
(23:10):
connects and everything's great.
Now you got employee parking.
Yes, so you've added how manystalls in the last couple of
years.
Now you've got employee parking.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Yes, so you've added how many stalls in the last
couple years 2,500.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And it's almost not enough.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Wow, yes, yes.
And the reason we're addingparking first?
Even though it is a revenuegenerator, that's not why we
added it first.
The reason we're adding parkingfirst is because, in order to
do the terminal expansion, wehave to relocate existing
parking.
So when you think about wherethe rental cars park today,
that's where the new concoursewill be.
(23:43):
And we can't build concourse Auntil we move those rental cars.
So they'll go into some of theparking so they will go into the
new garage that's underconstruction.
As you come in airport way, onthe right you see a new garage
that's going in next to andadjacent to the employee lot
employee garage.
That is a rental car facility,and so you'll still be able to
(24:05):
walk right out of the Boiseairport.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Which is super convenient right.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
And that was by design.
No one wants to get on ashuttle bus and go pick up a
rental car.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We were in San Diego two weeks ago.
By the way, thank you for thatdirect flight.
We'll talk about direct flightshere soon.
But what a difference, man.
I mean when you got to go, geton a bus and you go, and some
places are way more convenientthan others, or you go to like
even Spokane you have to walk,like if you land Alaska and
Spokane, you're walking.
I don't know how far.
(24:35):
It's a long ways to get towhere their rental car location
is.
Talk about the rental carfacility.
Does it accommodate everyone?
But when you do something likethis, you're probably projecting
how many years it's going toservice the airport.
Talk a little bit about thatfacility, because I think
there's a lot of peoplelistening that probably do
wonder.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Yes.
So yes, it will accommodateeveryone.
And the rental car countersthat are on the lower level,
those will also be located inthe garage, and so, if you
imagine, as you are a passenger,you will come down the
escalator there, pick up yourluggage and then go to the
rental car, instead of goinggetting your luggage and then
coming back and backtracking tothe counter and then going out
(25:18):
to the lot, and so this willhopefully be more convenient.
There will be a connectedwalkway that goes right to the
garage and it'll be seven levels.
The customer service facilitieswill be in the garage and the
ready return will be right there.
So, hopefully, super convenient.
We did issue bonds for that itwas.
(25:38):
It's about $120 million projectso, and it'll take about two
years to do.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
And is it under construction?
Speaker 4 (25:45):
It is under construction.
I think we're at about thethird level of a seven level
facility.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
What's going to happen down where the current
rental car desks are?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
That will be determined and as part of our
next master plan, we're lookingat some different options.
One thinking about how do wefacilitate passenger flow and
separate arriving and departingpassengers, so is there a
potential to have passengersarrive on that lower level
through that area?
Do we need more of that areafor baggage makeup and baggage
(26:16):
handling, more baggage peers?
So that will be part of ourmaster plan.
We're kicking off our nextmaster plan.
In fact, this year we justawarded a contract for that.
So our last 20-year master plan.
We're updating it to reflectthe work that we've done over
the last five years.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I want to ask you some questions about that, but I
do before we leave parkingawesome idea with the valet.
How hard of a decision was that?
Has it been successful?
Speaker 4 (26:44):
It was a pretty easy decision and it was necessitated
by demand because, you mayremember, we opened that new
garage in 2023, and we added1,200 new spaces.
We did not have enough parkingspace.
The last garage expansion thatwe did, in 2013, was supposed to
last us at least 10 yearsbefore we were going to have to
(27:07):
reopen the economy lot, and sowe had already outgrown the
parking garage, already outgrownthe economy lot, and we did not
have enough spaces.
And so I often make the jokewith my staff that not only did
we add parking, but we alsoprobably saved marriages,
because you can imagine, you getto the terminal and the garage
(27:30):
is full and you have two spousesyelling at each other.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I told you we should have gotten here earlier.
There was a time before therewas like this moment, where
there wasn't enough parking andyou didn't have valet yet for us
, that it was rough because youdidn't know for sure, right.
And then you would go park outthere, and it was yes.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I can.
You're welcome.
I can tell you that I was oneof those fights, yeah, so that's
a big deal.
I'll tell you what.
It's an incredible service.
It's unbelievable now andthey're so great and nice and
accommodating and so efficient.
It's just great.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
And it's the same vendor who operates the garages
downtown.
Yeah, and I would say a littleover a year ago we issued a
request for proposals forparking vendors to manage our
parking facility, because wedon't do that with our own team,
we actually contract that out.
So we have a managementcontract and we are using the
car park.
Car park yes, and so they'vebeen wonderful partners for us.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
We have a couple of downtown garages we own and
they're great, good, good people, that's great.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
There's probably some economies of scale there.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yes, I think it is, and they get it.
They do a wonderful job.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
How much flack have you gotten for moving the
waiting area oh my goodness, youknow it's interesting because
the things that are small arethe biggest, are the things that
have an outsize impact on thecommunity, and so it's
interesting because there'sdefinitely a group of people who
(29:00):
are opposed to the move thatwe've made with the cell phone
lot, and then there's otherpeople who are like what are you
talking about?
It's literally five minutesaway.
And it is literally fiveminutes away.
We just, you can't park at thecurb anymore in.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Boise, we're too big, so I use that a lot.
I'm probably one of the biggestusers because my son works
remotely here, but but he so hecomes back and forth every two
weeks and I pick him up everytime.
And when I heard it was moving,I'm like, oh, how's that going
to work, I guess for me.
I didn't know where, I knowwhere Curtis is, but I didn't
know Curtis was up here.
So when I first saw the address, I'm like Curtis, how's that
(29:38):
going to work?
And then I Googled where it was.
I'm like, oh, it's just rightthere.
It works fantastically, by theway.
Thank you Because by the timesomeone lands, I mean he'll text
me when he gets off the planeand you've got tons of time.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
I timed it.
When my husband got off theplane and I was picking him up,
it was 11 minutes from the timehe texted me that he landed,
till he walked out of thebuilding, in fact the argument
could be made you're still closeenough that you shouldn't leave
right away.
That is very true.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Because you're going to get there before they get
their bags.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yes, if they have bags, you're going to get there
before they pick up their bags.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
That's true.
I was just reading and hearingsome things and I'm like you
know it's super efficient andprobably where it should have
been all along and avoids thatwhole the line was never long
enough anyway.
Right, you had people back inthe aisle.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Oh, there was going to be an accident there.
We had accidents on the roadwayairport roadway and it was
definitely a danger, especiallyat peak times, and so I think
it's Well, it worksfantastically.
People it's changed.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
It's who moved my cheese right.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
The old book from however long ago.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, it is changed, it's just changed and it's like,
oh, it's different.
And then it's like, oh, thisworks great.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
And there's still things that we have to be
thinking about.
You know, as we talk about theconcourse expansion and
potentially adding up to 10 newgates, you know we're going to
be looking at.
We've expanded the checkpoint,but probably the next pinch
point is going to be the curbfront because, we're not adding
any curb front.
So how do we address that?
Because we're not adding anycurb front.
So how do we address that?
(31:16):
And where do we move differentpieces, so that way we can
continue to maintain ourseamless convenience for the
traveling public?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Before we get into kind of growth and vision.
So I don't forget this, becausethis is one of the things that
I find most fascinating.
I think people listening willreally enjoy hearing this
because since I heard itfirsthand from you, it makes so
much sense to me.
One of the things that I thinkI'm most proud about with you is
you are an advocate for the,the small businesses and
(31:45):
families in Idaho trying to maketheir lives better.
I mean, you just are, and theway that you do that best is
through direct flights, and Ibelieve you've, since you got
here, I think you've added 13,14?
I don't know 15, maybe 15?
.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
It probably was 13 when we talked about it.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
It's 15.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
But we've added more since we last chatted.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
So you add these direct flights and it really
changes things for travelersbusiness travelers, family
travelers.
It's just a big deal, and talkabout the work that goes into
that and some of the limitationsthat are there just because of
the way airlines works.
The most I'm going to ask youto kind of explain for our
(32:24):
audience.
But the one that gets everyoneis why doesn't Southwest go to
Salt Lake?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So those are two big questions.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Those are two big questions, and so I think when
we approach air service, there'sa couple of things we have to
think is, first and foremost,what is the demand?
You know, sometimes I'll getsomeone who'll say why don't we
have a nonstop to Wichita?
And I think because there'sonly three people a week who
want to go to Wichita no offenseto Wichita, but you know it is
(32:52):
the airlines are in business.
It's not a monopoly.
It's, you know, it's not agovernment subsidized service.
Generally.
I mean, there is essential airservice, but that's a completely
different topic for a different, a different podcast.
So it's you have to make abusiness case and we have to
look at where do they, where dopeople in Boise want to go and
(33:13):
who wants to come to Boise?
And then you have to lookbeyond that and say, based on
the airline and their strategyand their network, what makes
the most sense.
And so we have to recognizethat in Boise, you know, there's
a lot of places that we can getto really close.
You know Seattle, portland,salt Lake.
You know we have a number ofnonstop destinations to
(33:36):
California because of demand,because of proximity.
When you start looking east youhave to go a lot further to get
there.
So that means more aircrafttime, more crew time, more fuel,
and so the expense of thoseroutes gets higher and higher
the further you go.
So the airlines then spreadinga larger cost over the same
(33:56):
number of passengers, and so youreally have to make the case to
them that it's going to be notonly is it going to be full, but
it's and do you make the case?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yes, is that part of your pitch?
Speaker 4 (34:06):
So that would be part of my pitch, and I also have
people on my team who do thatspecific thing and over the time
we've evolved who does it, butI'm always directly involved in
air service, but it involvesdemographics and numbers and you
walk in and say, hey, this iswhy we think you'll be
successful, because here's ourdata.
Yes, it has to be backed by data.
The days of going into anairline and saying, hey, we have
(34:30):
a nice community, we think youshould come here, no pun
intended.
That doesn't fly anymore.
You have to have data and theylove to have other data that
they can't get from the DOT.
So, yes, it's interesting.
We've added I think we're up to27 nonstop destinations from
Boise today, and when I startedwe were at 12.
(34:52):
So, we've more than doubled thenumber of nonstop destinations
and when you look at ourconnectivity connectivity is key
because we can't fly to everysingle tiny community from Boise
, but if we have good access bygoing to Seattle or Salt Lake or
Denver or Chicago or Dallas orHouston, all of a sudden or most
(35:15):
recently, Atlanta- is a hugehub.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Atlanta was a big one .
Speaker 4 (35:19):
And it's also our furthest east hub, and delta was
very skeptical about doing itat first, and now we're up to
two flights a day oh wow, that'sgreat so so why so?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
so let's talk, maddie , hey, can you do it?
We, I wasn't going to do this,but look up, look up, if I want
to go fly to salt lake uh-ohtomorrow.
What it would cost me on DeltaSalt Lake is a problem.
And then the second biggest oneis Reno.
We started doing work in Reno,the bigger ones that are head
(35:50):
scratchers.
But you've explained thisbefore.
It has to do with a 737 and aSouthwest airline and how they
do their reboarding.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
Right, so Southwest only flies one aircraft.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
They fly the 737.
And there's different models ofit and different seat
configurations, but that's theonly aircraft that they fly.
So when you fly on one of ourother carriers, say you
mentioned.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Delta or Alaska, or whatever.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
They also have smaller regional jets and so the
market, for example from Boiseto Reno, probably isn't going to
support a couple hundred people.
We did have Reno back in theday with Southwest, but that was
a very different environmentwhere load factors were not as
high, fuel costs were not ashigh and labor costs were not as
(36:41):
high.
So you could have fewerpassengers because your costs
were lower.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
But once those passengers on a 737 dip, then it
just doesn't happen.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
It doesn't make sense .
You have to have more thanprobably an 80% load factor to
have a route be successful.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
So that's not horrible.
That's March.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Go sooner than that, though we're cheating here.
That's 389 round trip 389 roundtrip.
It's not.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
That does not seem bad.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That does not seem bad compared to try to fly like
next week.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Anytime you try to fly on a very short timeline,
you're always going to pay apremium.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Every single time, no matter which airline it is, no
but except for like going.
So where we go, a lot forbusiness we go to.
Spokane a lot.
We go to Salt Lake a lot andwe've been trying to go to Reno.
We actually stopped.
It's such a pain to fly to Reno.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
I'll mention that to my airline by the time you go.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
By the time you go, you know we, we drive, and then
that's got its own deal right.
But all right, here you go.
So what, what is it like?
That's not bad, hey, rebeccalook all right, we've had good
news on the movie of the uh ofthe cell phone area.
Now and now it's not horrible,but that is why they don't fly
(38:01):
there, right.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yes, it has to do with.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
You've got Delta kind of, is the main Salt Lake
direct flight.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Delta has a hub in Salt Lake, and so whenever
you're flying to and from anairline's hub, I think your
costs are always going to behigher.
I would note that several yearsago, alaska did have service to
Salt Lake and added competition, and I think what happened is
many people just continued tofly Delta and so so then they
stopped doing it, and so thenyou know.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Spokane has remained very inexpensive.
Why Spokane is always great.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Again, that's primarily in Alaska route back
and forth, and I think thatSmaller planes.
Smaller planes.
Again, that's primarily anAlaska route back and forth and
I think that smaller planes andBoise is a focus city for Alaska
Airlines and so they do tend toflow traffic between Spokane
and Boise.
And also Alaska has introducedsome other nonstops from Boise,
(38:56):
including Bozeman, orlando,sacramento, orange County.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Oh, there's a nonstop to Bozeman now.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
There's a nonstop.
It's seasonal.
It started December 19th.
It's performing very, very wellas well, as the Orlando flight
started in January and that'scontinuing to perform very well.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
For our listeners.
What are some of the latestones?
Because I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Bozeman, Bozeman was the most recent one and Orlando
were the most recent ones, andthen the other ones have
primarily been additionalfrequencies on existing routes
or larger aircraft.
But you know, to your questionabout growing air service, one
of the ways we grow air serviceis by the introduction of
seasonal service.
That then the season getslonger and longer until it's
(39:43):
year round.
Or in the case of Atlanta, weadded one frequency.
It performed really well.
They added a second frequencyand that's how you grow air
service.
I mean, the days of bringing ina new airline are pretty slim.
There's not that many airlinesout there we have well, you
touched on that for us.
So right now you have the bigones and are they doing pretty
well again yes, they are doingvery well in boise, I think
(40:06):
nationwide.
I think we need to continue tomonitor the airline industry
because they are seeingtremendous increases in costs.
One, they're having a challengegetting aircraft delivered, so
aircraft delivery is limitingcapacity, but also higher crew
costs.
If you remember, during COVID alot of airlines opted for
offered early retirement options.
(40:27):
Many people took them.
You can't just replace a pilot.
You know the same way off thestreet that you might replace
someone else, so there's kind ofa lag time.
So we've had an increase increw costs, increase in fuel
costs, so all of those thingsadd up.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
But you have so you have Delta, so we have Delta
United, we have Alaska, alaska.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
Yeah, alaska, american, delta, united,
southwest.
Those are all of the maincarriers.
Those carriers together,nationwide represent about 85%
of the market share for domestictravel.
So when you think about who'sleft, there's not a lot of other
players.
So we also have Allegiant, wehave Spirit, we have Avello and
(41:17):
we have Sun Country, seasonallyoperating from Boise.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Okay, Great, well, that's awesome.
So we have nine airlines, sothe days of bringing in another
airline.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
there's pretty limited options.
I mean, what's out there?
We have JetBlue.
Frontier Breeze is a newlow-cost carrier.
That's maybe a potential, butopportunities are pretty limited
for bringing in new carriersand then as far as Idaho travel.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Idaho Falls to Boise.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
We did have that service briefly again with
Alaska.
It was not, it wasn'tprofitable, it didn't break even
.
We do have service to Lewistonand also to Moscow.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Yeah, my kids used to .
Here's a scary airline story.
So my kids used to.
My son was a jazz guitarist andthey would go to the Lionel
Hampton Music Festival up in theUniversity of Idaho in the
winter and we had a really tightturnaround time.
So we flew, flew and it was thescariest commercial island
flight we've ever been on.
It was Alaska, but it.
It was crazy.
(42:26):
But we ended up making it andback, but yeah, I, that's the
only time.
And we landed in Lewiston andthen you, you stayed on the
plane and then you landed inMoscow.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
It uh yeah, that's one thing worth noting.
Uh, several years ago in Boiseand you may have experienced
this but not known what happenedbut we upgraded our instrument
landing system, so now you canland in Boise in very, very low
visibility because of thetechnology that we have.
Oh, I didn't know that, and soyou probably remember back in
the day flying into Boise,getting here and having them say
(42:57):
visibility is not good enough,we're going to divert and go
back to Salt Lake.
I don't know if you've noticedor wherever you're, you know.
Whatever the closest diversionwould be.
Uh, now we have bettertechnology and better
instrumentation and that's whyit does.
I won't say it never happens,but it doesn't happen as much as
it used to.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Let's talk expansion.
So, so many people may not.
So you have two runways, butyou have a third runway.
That is functional, right, youuse it now for training and
other things.
Right, and it's on the Southside of Gowan.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
It is.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
So, and and you, just you started by saying hey our
20 year master plan became ourfive-year work plan.
So, we're in the.
You're doing your new 20 yearplan.
Became our five-year work plan,so you're doing your new
20-year plan.
What are the next big?
Speaker 4 (43:43):
things for the airport.
Well, the next big thing isgoing to be the concourse
expansion, and so, if you canpicture it, as you go through
the terminal checkpoint, most ofthe time you're going to the
left to go to concourse B oryou're going to the lower level,
which is concourse C.
If you look to your right,there's nothing there.
You know, over by Barden A,that is where Concourse A will
(44:05):
be, and so we're working on thedesign for up to 10 new aircraft
parking positions.
So we're going to startconstruction this spring on an
aircraft parking apron becausethat's going to be the first
piece of that.
We can't do all of the workagain, as I mentioned, because
(44:25):
we have rental cars there and wealso have construction going on
there in that area for the newrental car garage, but that will
be the next thing that we'reworking on is the concourse.
We have a number of airfieldprojects that we're doing that
will enable commercialdevelopment, for commercial
hangars, corporate hangars thatwe're working on.
(44:46):
We have a number of airfieldprojects taxiway realignments,
construction, runway overlays.
The third runway that youmentioned is probably at least
10 years out.
When we did our last masterplan, it was what we considered
to be beyond the planninghorizon, so beyond 20 years.
(45:07):
I think this time we'll seethat it will be within the
planning horizon, in partbecause of the growth that we're
seeing, in part because of therunway configuration that we
have, but that runway iscompletely separate from the
rest of the airfield, meaningthere's no taxiway.
So you could land there but youcan't get back to the terminal.
So, to put it in perspective,when we looked at it, probably
(45:31):
in 2015, 2016, it was about $100million to build the bridge
over Gowan Road to get to thatthird runway.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Every once in a while , I will hear someone say that
you would like the runway to belonger.
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (45:51):
The third runway is shorter than the other two.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
yes, but the other two are the same thing, the
other two we can land just aboutany size aircraft.
And the other one's the one.
And then one other big questionon your expansion A lot of
cities.
It's got to be hard becausewhen you start a city you're
probably not thinking 50 yearsahead, right, Right, or 100
(46:15):
years ahead, head.
We've been pretty luckycompared to a lot of other
places because you have had realthoughtful growth plans and you
have a lot of property south ofGowan In your 50-year timeline
is our location of our airport.
This is where it's going to be,versus some of these other
(46:37):
cities that have to just movelocations because of growth.
What does that look like inyour mind?
Speaker 4 (46:43):
I think our city has done a phenomenal job of
planning ahead and ensuring theproper zoning.
We do have a very few number ofhomes that are within our what
we call our 65 day night noiselevel, which is the decibel
reading.
And you know, we have probablya couple hundred homes that were
(47:05):
built before we had the properzoning in place.
But for the most part most ofthe homes are outside of what we
would consider to be our impactarea for noise.
And even around, as youmentioned, around that third
runway, we own substantialproperty to the south, and we've
(47:28):
purchased property both eastand west of the airport.
So we're in great shape.
We're in great shape.
I don't envision us moving theBoise airport.
We have so much investment ininfrastructure into the airport.
We have proper zoning aroundthe airport.
I think it's important that wecontinue to maintain that zoning
and that we hold fast on, youknow, not allowing encroachment,
(47:50):
which is very hard when youhave a housing shortage in your
community, but it is importantthat we maintain that zoning so
that way we can continue to keepthe airport where it is.
I think that's one of thegreatest things about Boise is
you can literally be downtown in10 minutes from the airport.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yeah, I mean, it's incredible, it's just and I do
think you've said it, but let mesay it again I think there's
been really good, thoughtfulleadership for a long time.
That lands us in some of thesepositions we find ourselves in
and we probably don't stop andlook back enough and say, wow,
that was a good job, that wasgreat.
Well, you've been an incredibleleader.
(48:30):
Hey, I know you're passionate.
This time has gone by way, waytoo fast.
But I know you're superpassionate about Treasure Valley
, about Idaho, about what goeson here.
Treasure Valley, about Idaho,about what goes on here.
I know you're involved in a lotof things.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
What does this place mean to you and your family?
Well, it's interesting becauseI think I mentioned to you at
the beginning of this that wedidn't move when we first
considered it, probably in 2008,2009.
And I thought, wow, I'm notsure about relocating, you know,
being from New England, but myfamily and I just love it here.
This is, you know, this hasbeen our home for the last 13
(49:09):
years.
This is where we raised ourchildren.
And you know, we've had otherfamily members who've moved to
Boise because we moved to Boiseand they came here and they were
like, oh, who've moved to Boisebecause we moved to Boise and
they came here and they werelike, oh, boise is a really nice
place.
I didn't know.
So, um, yeah, boise is a veryspecial place.
We love all the things thatBoise offers, whether it's, you
(49:30):
know, skiing or hiking.
I love the green belt, you know, just being able to go out and
walk my dog on the green belt.
All the parks that we offerhave to offer here in our
community.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
It really is incredible place.
It is a very special place,well rebecca like.
But the one amenity that makesthis so great is the airport,
and and thank you.
I've been wanting to have youon for a long time, just because
it's awesome for people to knowhow much planning and
thoughtful leadership goes intohaving we take it for granted.
I mean, you come in, you in,you leave, you go out, but it's
(50:01):
so.
You just have to fly anywhereelse in the country to realize
how special that part of ourcity is, and it is because of
great leadership.
It's because of you and I don'tsay this lightly.
I've been around a lot ofleaders.
You're incredible.
Speaker 4 (50:16):
So thank you for what you do, for your example, for
the time you provide from from aleadership perspective to make
this place great well, thank youfor your leadership because you
certainly have had a tremendousimpact on our region, in our
community and you know, I knowyou've jokingly said that you're
going to always be rememberedfor top golf, but uh, so many
(50:37):
other projects that it willalways be top golf though, right
, I mean, uh, okay, rebecca,thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Uh, really appreciate it, and if there's anything we
can ever do for you, let us know.
But uh, this was great,appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
Thank you so much Thanks everybody.
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