October 20, 2025 • 49 mins
Boise is in a renaissance—and not the glossy kind that happens only on brochures. We’re talking about the gritty, sleeves-rolled-up version driven by accurate data, shared ownership, and citizens who show up when roads, schools, and hospitals feel the strain. With TOK Commercial’s managing partner Michael Ballantyne, a seventh-generation Idahoan and pillar of the Treasure Valley, we follow the throughline from family roots and adoption to a leadership philosophy that treats service as a core operating system.
Michael pulls back the curtain on TOK’s growth model: celebrate people at every level, expand only to create opportunity, and build your own research so decisions are grounded in what’s real, not what’s reported. That data advantage matters in non-disclosure markets and “lifestyle” regions like Boise and Spokane where national tools miss the mark. We unpack why office isn’t dead, how industrial overbuilt at the big end while small-bay space is scarce, and where retail thrives when it becomes Amazon-proof through services and experiences. The center of gravity keeps shifting west, and mixed-use will reshape legacy sites as the valley evolves.
We also tackle the issues everyone feels: growth fatigue, infrastructure gaps, and the housing squeeze that turned a once-affordable market into a tougher climb. The fix isn’t a slogan; it’s policy and participation. Cities need to allow more apartments, townhomes, and condos, streamline entitlements, and stop treating infill like a four-letter word. Impact fees and process friction matter. So does showing up—at chamber committees, BVEP, city council, and nonprofit boards—where Boise’s cross-partisan, practical problem-solving still works.
If you care about how a city scales without losing its soul, this conversation is a blueprint: measure what matters, invest in people, build the missing supply, and keep the civic muscle strong. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves Boise (or wants to), and leave a review with the one change you’d make to improve housing or infrastructure—we’ll feature the best ideas in a future episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Today on the Ever Onward Podcast, we have Michael
Ballantyne.
Michael is a long, longtimefriend.
He is absolutely one of thepillars of our community here in
the Treasure Valley.
He is literally involved inevery nonprofit and effort that
is making this place great andhas made it great for a long
time.
He's a seventh generationIdahoan.
(00:21):
Mike has been the managingpartner of TOK Commercial, which
is the largest commercial realestate brokerage and property
management company in TreasureValley, now regionally.
He's been that for the last 20years.
He is the go-to for all thingsthat has to do with commercial
real estate in Idaho, andespecially here in the Treasure
(00:42):
Valley, and most importantly, anincredible friend, uh
philanthropist, uh carrying onthe heritage of his parents.
I'm really excited to have himon today, uh, Michael
Ballantine.
(01:02):
Michael Ballantyne.
This is gonna be fun.
SPEAKER_03 (01:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05):
We've been trying to get you on forever.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
I'm as busy as you are.
You're a tough, you're a toughperson in the book here.
Well, you have more m many morefascinating people, I think,
that uh go to the top of thelist.
SPEAKER_02 (01:16):
I uh I there's a few people that come on and they
need to like prep a little bitwith you.
I don't.
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
Because my mother said I'vemastered half the art of
conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
So uh we were just in DC together.
Yeah.
And between you and I tellingstories.
Yeah.
We get a few eye rolls and itmakes for a great dinner.
Yeah.
Uh it goes by quickly.
I'm sure this will go byquickly.
But hey, uh, I've known you fora long time.
I think you're uh I'm not justblowing smoke here.
You've got to be one of themost, the most rep, you know,
(01:48):
you look in the real estateworld, you're the go-to, uh
reputation.
Thank you.
Um you're involved in thechamber and every other.
I'm thinking St.
Al's.
I mean, I just off the top of myhead, all the different things
you've done over the years.
Yeah, there's a lot of peoplethat talk about giving back, and
then there's Mike Ballantyne whodoes, right?
So there's a lot of things totalk about today.
But um, for those who don't knowyou as well as I do, I mean,
(02:10):
this is uh this Idaho thingmeans a lot to you, and you've
got stories that go back.
I mean, just from DC last week,we were talking about things.
So tell me a little bit aboutgrowing up here.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
Well, so uh my family's been here seven
generations now, since 1863.
Came from Scotland.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
That's longer than uh old uh Brad.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Yeah, well, Brad and I are distant relatives,
actually.
So we our families came from thesame area and married again.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
I used to hate that when we were in the campaign,
though, because here I was goingup against him.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
We'd be up in Moscow, right?
You were at the University ofIdaho giving a speech, and one
of my favorite things he'd say,Well, you know Genesee right
down the road.
Well, my great grand auntMarthaunt Martha planted the
first lilac butch there, andit's still there if you go into
town, and I'm like, oh man.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Oh, their family take all the steam.
This had a huge impact in Idaho,so yeah, for sure.
But uh yeah, born and raisedhere, and um uh I'm actually
adopted.
My parents adopted six kids, allfrom birth from all over the
Pacific Northwest and uh WesternCanada, and uh had a great
upbringing.
My dad was a broker anddeveloper, um, a reformed dairy
(03:16):
farmer.
Um my grandfather was a reformeddairy farmer and also a broker
and developer.
So I grew up in the back of mydad's old travel hall when he
was selling farms and ranches,and he developed a lot of stuff
around Cascade Lake, and and uhso it was a fun life, you know.
It was like uh it was my my momwas gonna write a book once uh
called Champagne and Hot Dogsbecause uh our family was, you
(03:38):
know, my dad'd be doing amillion-dollar deal over here,
and my mom would be cutting hotdogs in the craft macaroni and
cheese to feed all these kids,and you know, so uh spent some
time in DC working for USAID asa contractor, actually, in Latin
America and Africa primarily,the former Soviet bloc.
It was fantastic.
US Day USA ID was an amazingorganization, it's a tragedy,
(03:59):
it's no longer around.
But um, and uh it was time tocome back, so came back and
tried to figure out what Iwanted to be when I grow up.
I'm still trying to figure itout.
But got into real estate andbeen doing that ever since, and
lucky enough to land at T O Kand we've had a wild ride.
It's been really fun.
SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
You guys are you guys are the go-to.
Um, what what you're the you'vebeen the managing partner for a
long time.
SPEAKER_00 (04:21):
For a while, yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I think since 2005.
Yeah, I was gonna say it's gotyeah, 20 years.
With my killer and then uh andthen solo after that.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Hey, uh, I didn't know you were adopted.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Oh yeah, my parents are my dad's passed, but my
parents were amazing humanbeings and adopted six kids all
from birth.
Um my mother was a high schoolgirl who got in trouble, and I
was likely a booth baby.
That was why I co-chaired thatcampaign to build a new booth
home on Emerald, uh the newSalvation Army facility.
SPEAKER_02 (04:49):
Yeah, talk a lot.
Well, you said a lot rightthere, but um adoption's near
and dear to us.
Two of our children are adopted,and it's like an absolute
miracle.
We love we love talking aboutit.
It's just it's uh one of thecoolest things we've ever done.
But um the booth house was a bigdeal.
I want to talk about I mean theproblem with today is we're
(05:10):
gonna be able to talk about it.
I mean this was a big thing, andyou led that campaign.
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
Yeah, I co-chaired that with Jennifer Delgard,
who's Tom Nicholson's daughter,amazing human being.
And um, you know, I went and didthe tour.
Eric Bolinder asked me to go outand take a look and did the
tour, and then they get you in acorner and they always ask you
for cash.
And and buddy asked me to chairthe campaign, and originally it
was a seven and a half milliondollar campaign, and it ended up
being a ten million dollarcampaign.
(05:35):
But that home had been thereforever.
Um women from all over theUnited States had gone and had
children there.
So um, high school girls had gotin trouble, so to speak.
Um, but the the last campaignwas in 1968, and J.R.
Simplot shared that campaign.
So facility was little, a littlerun down and in the wrong
(05:57):
location.
It was in the north end.
So we built a new facility,Salvation Army Service Center on
uh Emerald near Central DistrictHealth, near St.
Alphonsus, near the mall.
All amendees and services, thattype of thing.
So it was it was a uh it was abig campaign, took about five
years, but it was fantastic.
And uh they actually have aschool there called Cardinal
Academy.
Yeah, um, and the girls andboys, the fathers can actually
(06:20):
go there as well, and they canstay until they graduate.
They don't have to go back oncethey've had the child.
So it's a great program.
SPEAKER_02 (06:26):
It's a beautiful building.
Yeah, yeah, really nice to beable to do that.
Talking about change.
How's it been?
It's been probably I don't knowhow many years ago you open.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
I think we finished in well, we started in 2015.
I think we finished 2020.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
Yeah, so what have the results been like?
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
I think it's been good.
I haven't been as involved.
Um I don't serve on the board oranything like that, but I think
they were able to consolidate alot of services, move off of
State Street, move out of theNorth End, uh, be in a real
highly highly visible locationon the bus line, uh, more able
to serve uh folks.
But I think it's been great.
So um but Salvation Army doesgreat work.
(07:00):
They do the Lord's work, it's afantastic organization.
SPEAKER_02 (07:03):
That's great.
Well, thanks for thanks forbringing that up.
I think again, there's gonna beso many things to talk about
today, but but yourphilanthropic kind of heart,
does that come from yourparents?
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
Um yeah, my parents were super involved.
Um my dad retired early, he didreally well, and uh uh it was it
was the the oil shock in the the80s and and 18% interest rates,
and he's just like, why am Idoing that?
So I'm gonna go down to BSU andpaint watercolors.
And he started the K Kidsprogram and uh um planted trees
(07:38):
all over the valley.
In fact, our house we had fiveacres, three of those acres were
a tree farm, so they could planttrees at elementary schools
because the school districtscouldn't afford trees, right?
So so you know, I kind of grewup at the uh north end of the
shovel helping in the community,and my parents really preached
that giving back to whom much isgiven, much is expected, right?
SPEAKER_02 (07:58):
So yeah, so were were they raised that way too?
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, I mean I think that's onething that makes Boise great.
You know, I think there are alot of people that were raised
that way, and I think we weemphasize it at T O K.
In fact, one we have 33 partnersnow, um and it's one thing that
makes our model a lot different.
And uh, you know, we're in sevenwe have seven offices, 33
partners.
We're in Idaho, Oregon,Washington, Montana, Utah.
(08:23):
But the offices are only inIdaho and Washington right now.
But um but we have certaincriteria like for a broker to
become a partner and it'sproduction and time with the
company and and designations,getting additional education and
training.
But one of the criteria is theyhave to prove that they're
involved in the fabric of thecommunity that they get back.
Um, you know, we we benefit fromgrowth, as do you, right?
(08:45):
And uh growth is great, but ifyou're not uh working hard to
protect what makes Boise anamazing place, um you're gonna
lose what makes this placespecial.
And I want this, I want mygrandkids and great-grandkids
and others to live here and loveit as much as I do.
I love this town.
Yeah, that's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (09:00):
So that's great.
So let's talk a little bit aboutT OK.
So when you come in um uh 20years ago, you believe that,
Mike?
Yeah.
I'm old.
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
That's Tommy.
SPEAKER_02 (09:10):
Old.
You've been the managing partnerfor 20 years ago.
Yeah, I was gonna say, as longas I've kind of known you,
you've been the managingpartner.
But um talk about uh riding thatride.
Because I think 20 years ago youdidn't have offices all over.
No, we just have to do that.
So you've scaled you've scaled alot.
Yeah, we were much smaller.
Just been dominant kind of herein this market.
(09:32):
What what is uh what has it beenlike to grow the business?
And then talk a little bit.
Uh one of the things that I'msure everyone that sees you on
this podcast want to know ishey, what's it been like with
growth?
What are you seeing?
What's going on out there?
But that's a lot to cover, butstart with just the business.
SPEAKER_00 (09:47):
Well, I mean, T O K, I mean it was originally started
by three guys Thornton Oliverand and later Mike Keller and uh
Tim Thorn and Peter Oliverstarted the firm, CBRE guys that
came to Boise providing qualitythird-party brokerage and
management.
There just wasn't that in ourmarket.
And uh and it's just been anamazing ride.
We have a fantastic team,incredible brokers.
(10:09):
Um, our market share is isstupid.
I think in every market exceptuh inland northwest, you know,
our market share is better thana third.
Um and that's un unheard of.
You go to any other market, andmaybe the dominant player will
be 12 to 15 percent marketshare.
So and that's with a lot of bignationals coming in the market.
So um, we've been really lucky.
And I think our our model isdifferent.
(10:30):
We um we believe in ownership,we um we uh celebrate our
successes and really raise up attypical brokerage.
The brokers are these rock star,you know, professional athletes,
and everybody else's sort of jobis to make them look good.
And we don't play that way, youknow.
I don't care if you're amaintenance person, a day
porter, a support person, thereceptionist, what you get.
(10:52):
We spend as much time liftingthem up as we do the brokers.
And I mean, we had a deal in2020 2021 was our 30-year
anniversary, and we hadeverybody in my backyard, and we
had uh everybody got threeenvelopes.
The first envelope was uh 30hours of PTO, the second
envelope was three hundreddollars cash, ten thirty ten
(11:13):
dollar bills thirty years,right?
And the final envelope was atravel voucher for three
thousand dollars anywhere in theworld, right?
Because those people had donethat, they they were the reason
we were so successful.
And I don't care we had peoplethat had been there two weeks
that got a trip, right?
So we try to really celebrateour people, take care of our
people, recognize um uh peoplecreate success.
(11:37):
Our biggest challenge is growth,you know, in that I think growth
for growth's sake is nothealthy, but growth to create
opportunity for your people isreally important for your
clients and customers, wellsaid, and for your people,
right?
And so so we really want, youknow, the the the thing I hate
is when we do before we came onthe podcast, we're talking about
people leaving, right?
And the thing I hate is wheresomeone says, Hey, I have to
(11:58):
leave because my supervisorwould have to die or quit for me
to get a promotion.
And so we we do a couple things.
We really look for situationalleadership opportunities.
Hey, we're gonna roll out thisnew software, we'd like you to
lead that, you know.
And it may not be a supervisortype position, but giving them a
chance and opportunity.
SPEAKER_02 (12:16):
It's super rewarding too when you see that happen.
And it happens organically withpeople that are committed and
then they grow into something.
It's there's nothing better thanthat.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
You have leaders by position and you have leaders by
personality.
And there are we have a ton ofleaders who are not on the
leadership team, but they areleaders by by personality or or
by the type of human being thatthey are.
The other thing is is um isgrowth through um, you know,
just natural organic growth.
And so that's either in cr in inuh service lines, like we now
(12:47):
have appraisal evaluationcompany, we purchase Mountain
States appraisal.
We're partners with Joe Corlett,he's an amazing human, and uh
and most big brokerage houseshave uh uh appraisal company.
We bought Intermountain propertyservices, we provide um, in
addition to property management,a lot of property services for
our clients, um, and that's abig piece of our business.
(13:08):
So that allows more opportunityfor leadership, that type of
thing.
So it's uh growth and servicelines, and then of course
geographic growth.
So, you know, we just opened inJune our Spokane office, and you
know, I think we've got 150 to175 people, and and uh so so
that gives people an opportunityto to to uh move up within the
organization, that type ofthing, because of additional
(13:28):
responsibilities, but it also isreally good for our client.
We you know, most of our 50% ofour transactions are done with
folks from out of town who arecoming to Boise, buying property
in Boise, that type of thing.
And one of their first questionsis where else should I be going?
And you know, Idole Falls, TwinFalls, Cordelaine, Spokane, uh,
Oregon, Tri-Cities, you know, Icall them lifestyle markets.
(13:51):
You know, we our model is alittle different in that we um
we don't want to be the biggest,we don't want to sell more
widgets than anybody else.
We um we want to be the best.
And one of our deals that reallysets us apart is this research
model that we have where wedon't we don't participate with
CoStar and LoopNet and all thatstuff.
We build our own database.
(14:11):
We go in right now, we're inSpokane building the database,
we use the county information,city information, all the other
resources.
We we track 125 million squarefeet in the markets that we
well, it's okay.
It's our own proprietary.
We have this brilliant guy, JoshPaul, who built this software,
and it is incredible.
It's built on the on the SQLServer.
(14:31):
So if I tell you the market, um,you know, the industrial market
is 5.1% vacant, it is literally5.1.
It's not a sampling or anythinglike that.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
It's the actual Well I talk a little bit for those
listening.
Like those other those other umdatabases are national, yeah,
and they rely a lot of onself-reporting, right?
Right.
And they're terrible.
SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
You're lucky if they're 70% accurate in Boise,
and you get into smallermarkets, they're not even
closed.
SPEAKER_02 (14:56):
Well, sometimes if they're taken as gospel, too,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
Yeah.
By a lot of people.
And they're in Idaho'snon-disclosure state.
So they'll literally see arecorded deed of trust for a
million dollars and say, well,that's sold for a million
dollars.
Well, that was just the loan.
Yeah.
That wasn't the actual purchaseprice.
But we love those markets.
We call them lifestyle markets.
If it's on the cover of MountainBiking Magazine or Outside
Magazine, it's probably a marketwe want to be in.
Boise and Spokane will probablybe the biggest markets we ever
(15:19):
go into because you have to beable to get your arms all the
way around the market.
And in a Seattle or an LA, youcan't get every building, every
transaction tracked.
So that gives us a hugecompetitive advantage.
And you're looking at highgrowth markets.
So you're in high growth marketswhere there's not a lot of
national competitors, right?
Where you've got better datathan anybody else, and it it
(15:39):
leads to success.
And then that that flywheel ofproperty management and
brokerage feeding each other,and you sell a building and you
turn over to propertymanagement.
But at the end of the day, it'sall about taking really good
care of your clients.
You know that, and you do agreat job with that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
It's all that matters, right?
Yeah.
Every time someone says thatreminds me of a story I was uh,
you know, the bodybuilding.comsguy guy.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I remember Ryan giving talkto the it was a it wasn't the
chamber, but it was a big event.
There had to be like 300 peoplethere.
And I was sitting at one of thetables up front, and I'd never
(16:14):
heard him.
I knew him, and he's a greatguy.
Like you get around those twoguys.
Yeah, high energy.
High energy.
And and you know, it's one ofthose things where it's like,
who made this work?
And then you get to know him,you're like, okay, I get it now.
Yeah.
Anyway, he he gets up front andhe's giving a talk, a formal
talk to all these people.
And um, he's talking about thehis his success and the reason
he had success.
(16:34):
And he gets to customers andrepeat customers and taking care
of them.
And I'll never forget, I wassitting at a table with the
mayor of Meridian and a bunch ofdignitaries up front, and he
says, Hey, at bodybuilding.com,we don't just take care of our
customers, we dry hump them.
SPEAKER_00 (16:49):
Well, we don't do that for our clients.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Seriously, like it was like it was like one of the
few times in my life I lookaround the table like, okay, is
everyone gonna laugh?
Interesting terminology.
What are they gonna do?
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (17:01):
But in his vernacular and how he's doing
it, but I've always like ininternally in our company, we'll
say, You remember what RyanDeLuca said about taking care of
people?
Right.
But his point, it was a veryvivid way of remembering it's
all it's all about repeatbusiness.
Yeah, if you've thought aboutyour repeat business over your
career in real estate.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
Well, we are so lucky.
Peter Ulver, you know, who's agreat broker, he calls it
blocking and tackling.
It's just doing the right thingevery day, calling your clients
back.
You know, nothing is morefrustrating than if I get a call
from somebody who says, I'vebeen trying to get a hold of
this broker for three days.
I just want to just drive crazy.
That's the blocking andtackling.
It's not your latest technologyand and uh podcasts or anything
(17:43):
like that.
It's just blocking and tackling,it's just taking care of your
clients and and being a goodidea.
SPEAKER_02 (17:48):
Is there anything more irritating than that too?
I've had that happen a coupletimes where it's like, hey, you
know, we had you know, it'sbusiness, right?
Yeah, it's it's business, it'slooking for a place to land.
Hey, I I can't get a hold ofyour guy.
I know you can't get a hold ofthe guy.
Yeah, I know you just go throughthe roof, right?
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
Everybody has stuff going on and we're all super
busy, and and sometimes ithappens, you know, you're out of
cell phone range, you'rehunting, or whatever.
And but it's that you know,overcommunication is the key,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (18:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
Great.
Uh let's switch to growth.
Wow.
Yeah.
We've been riding the tiger,right?
So we've been lucky.
We're lucky, right?
Yeah, and you know, we're in somany markets, and there is no
market like Boise.
I mean, it is by far and awayour best market, and we're in
some great markets, but it is itis crazy good.
SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
It's not slowing down.
I want to get into that withyou.
And kind of uh it isinteresting.
I spent two at least two days,what did it say, Thursday, two
days this week in significantconversations about people that
are just kind of tired of it.
Oh yeah.
Growth fatigue is a real deal.
So back in the day when we didEighth Main and we do these
projects, and everyone's ohgreat, you know, you're bringing
(18:55):
top golf, or you're filling thehole, and you're those days are
over, man.
They they don't want to seeuntil you get to the other side.
SPEAKER_00 (19:03):
I mean, if I had to take one or the other, I mean I
lived here in the 80s, yeah, andit was last guy out shut out the
lights.
I mean, Boise was dying, andBoise looked like a war zone
downtown Call Yours magazine,had that famous article, Boise
the only city to dismantleitself.
We had torn down all thesebuildings.
SPEAKER_02 (19:18):
I think Dirk Kemcourt Chem Thorne, I've been
around him a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
He calls it Little Beirut.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And it was uh it was terrible,but we were planning for the
future.
And but kids would graduate highschool, they go away to college
and they want to come back, youknow, and I want to create a
community where people want tocome back to.
SPEAKER_02 (19:34):
Do you remember that's all we talked about the
early 2000s, even all anyonetalked about, every board we
were on is how do we keep ourkids here?
How do we get wages?
How do how do we how do we stopthem from going away to school?
How do we stop, you know?
And you did a really good job ofit talking about it.
Well, and you think about, youknow, I I wasn't here, I got
here in the 90s, but you look atyou look at those early days of
Custra and what Boise Statebecame and kind of went on and
(19:57):
the oh yeah and and now all of asudden, okay, Boise State is not
you know your kids don't goaway, they go to Boise State.
Yeah, big deal keeping themhere.
You look at CWI, yeah, thatspin-off and what Gordon's
doing.
So you look at educationallywhat's going on.
There was always the outdoors.
Right.
There was always the arts.
You think of Shakespeare andMorrison Center, and so so there
was all these elements that weregreat.
Yeah.
But then what happened was allof a sudden you had wages, you
(20:21):
had jobs, it was discovered.
So it's what we all wanted.
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
Right.
And it happened.
But I think you know, Boise inthe 70s was growing like crazy.
It was all those fortune 50companies.
I mean, there was an articlethat said Boise had more
millionaires per capita thananywhere in the country back in
the 70s.
And you know, you had MorrisonKnudsen and Orwita and Simplot
and HP and Albertsons and allthese Boise Cast came out these
amazing companies.
SPEAKER_02 (20:44):
You think about Morrison Knudson, the largest
construction company in theworld was centered here.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
You had HP going crazy.
Yeah, their largest operationoutside.
Boise.
SPEAKER_00 (20:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but but uh part of ourgrowth goes back to those guys
who, you know, the guys inMorrison Knutsen, they lived all
over the world.
Yeah.
And they're like, well, whydon't we have a world-class
performing arts center?
Yeah.
Why don't we have a world uhworld-class football team?
You know, white and Shakespeareand the Morrison Center and all
these incredible parks.
I mean, those go back to the1800s where people were thinking
(21:16):
about how do I make this abetter place?
I mean, there are some greatphotos, if you get a chance, in
at uh Boise City, Boise CityDepartment of Art and History,
the Idaho uh Historical Societyof this valley.
This was ugly.
Yeah it was so ugly.
And they made paradise out ofout of the desert.
This is a high mountain desert.
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
Very much the Simplot family, the Albertson
family.
When you think about theheritage here, oh yeah.
Absolutely.
And and and those roots, thatfabric, is what made the the
growth possible, the keepingyour kids here, the wages
possible.
So that was always the beautifulpart of this, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:50):
Oh, yeah.
But I mean, here's a great sothe where the village is today,
okay, that was Harry Morrison'suh stables where he kept his
huge draft horses and his plows,what they call blades, to cut
all the canals that created theirrigation system that allowed
us to grow initially throughagribusiness, right?
In fact, when they wereexcavating for the village, they
(22:10):
kept finding these gianthorseshoes, right?
And they even found off theoffice draft horses and nails
and that type of stuff.
So yeah, it's it's crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (22:20):
But now it's discovered.
We and listen, I don't sometimeson this podcast we talk about
the the people that have comehere from outside um that over
the last 10 years.
There is a big time anti-growthsediment.
I think I think California getsa bad name here, but yeah, they
they earn it.
Yeah.
Because in every hearing I'm in,it's largely Californians that
(22:43):
have been here the last three orfour years saying, hey, stop
this thing.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
Yeah.
But I'll tell you what, Iremember standing on the beach
at Cascade Lake as a kid, andthere was a guy who was an
executive at HP who had come andwhen HP first came, and it was
the 80s.
It'd been he'd been here about10 years, and he was like, Oh,
we gotta shut the door.
We cannot let these people in.
And my dad's like, somebody letyou in, somebody let us in, you
know, in 1863, you know.
(23:06):
Probably not, they weren'tprobably real happy about us
coming.
So, so there is that.
I just I I don't have anyproblem with people coming as
long as they share our valuesand they want to keep Boise what
makes Boise special, right?
But but the biggest issue wehave is a strain on our
services, right?
Yeah.
And education and roads and thattype of stuff.
I was talking to a guy who soldhot tubs, and he's like, I was
(23:28):
like, how's it going?
He's like, Oh my gosh, I justhad the best year of my life.
It's crazy.
And in the next sentence, he'stalking about how terrible
growth is.
Well, all those hot tubs arebeing sold to houses that people
are buying that are moving fromother places, so you can't have
it both ways, but it isincumbent upon him and you and
me to make sure that this citygrows properly or this valley
grows properly.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
So what are the what are some of those elements?
What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
We need to get a bypass south of town, I've
heard.
I heard somebody is leading thateffort, you know, that's really
important.
Yeah, I mean, I mean it'stransportation, it's education.
We've got to be.
SPEAKER_02 (23:59):
And let's talk about micron.
No, none of no one loves thethat story better.
Like we didn't mention thateither.
Did you hear Micron, born andbred here?
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
Basement of a dentist's office at Northview
and Cole Road.
SPEAKER_02 (24:10):
And now it's fifty billion dollars being spent
here.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:14):
When they announced the first FAB, it was 15
billion.
Right.
I went back and looked, 10 yearsof building permits through the
city of Boise was 10 billion.
So so I mean, we're talking 50years of value in just building
permit.
And it's a it's an odd way tomeasure it.
But if the impact is true, isthere so um infrastructure
(24:37):
power?
You talk about power.
SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
Yeah, Lisa Grove talks about having to get 40
years of infrastructure, power,infrastructure, power demand
built in five years, right?
And it's not just from peoplemoving in, but it's from
industry.
And uh yeah, it's it's I mean,we've got we've got
infrastructure issues, we've goteducation issues.
We have to double down oneducation rather than cutting
back on it.
You know, we've got we've gottransportation issues, uh,
(25:02):
healthcare, right?
You know, we have a healthcaresystem that works.
Yeah.
We're we're blessed to have twoincredible health systems
between St.
Luke's and St.
Alphonsus.
And um, but you know, you youSt.
Alphonsus actually has anotherhospital in their system, St.
Agnes and Fresno, and it is dayand night between what we deal
with in Boise or Nampa orOntario Break Your City and what
they're dealing with.
(25:24):
Well, she at the end, she theythey put her over that.
Well, they they added becauseSt.
Alphonse is so successful, theysaid, well, let's just, you
know, Idaho and Oregon are rightnext to California.
Let's just add St.
Agnes to this health system.
And um, and those people areincredible people at St.
Agnes.
They're doing the Lord's work.
But Fresno and California ingeneral are they're struggling
with health care.
(25:45):
Highly regulated, their theirpayment model doesn't work.
It just and and we still, youknow, it it generally still
works in Idaho.
I mean, we we actually our ourmodel is probably 30 years old
compared to other places, butlike I don't even know anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
I this weekend I went and visited a friend in the
ER in downtown St.
Louis.
So I spent a significant portionof my life down there.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
I found out about you.
But it was I was just there,there for a few hours.
And um, first of all, the theweird thing for me, I don't I
went in expecting to know somenurses.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
And you didn't know anybody.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Yeah.
Liz, the unit clerk, ran up andgave me a hug.
It was and I said, Liz, there'sgotta be someone else here.
You never go back, Tommy.
There's no one.
It's just changed.
Like it's just changed.
It's big, it's busy, it's Idon't know.
SPEAKER_00 (26:35):
Well, it's weird healthcare, the payment model
doesn't work, the the deliverymodel doesn't work, uh
technology isn't keeping up, youknow, but yet we deliver the
best healthcare in the world.
We do.
And that all goes back to thosepeople that are working in the
trenches.
We have incredible doctors andnurses.
SPEAKER_02 (26:50):
And how do we approach all that support
people?
I mean, I mean, you just youjust rattled off the challenges.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
It's engagement.
I mean, it's being active in theBoise Metro Chamber of Commerce,
it's being active in BVEP, it'sgoing to city council meetings,
it's it's serving on commission.
So your point is no one's gonnacome solve these issues for us,
right?
That's what we've always done inthis valley.
We I love in a desert and we cutcanals, right?
Yeah, the New York Canal iscalled the New York Canal
because we went to New York Cityand went to New York life and
(27:16):
said, hey, we want to borrowthis money so we can cut these
canals and uh and irrigate thedesert.
We can do it.
None of these challenges uhcan't be overcome.
For people out there allinvolved.
SPEAKER_02 (27:26):
The one I want to get some sage wisdom from
Michael Ballantyne.
Well, you're in trouble.
But if you're if you're ifyou're talking, there's people
that listen to this for thosebecause I think sitting back and
waiting for the involvementwe're talking about is there's a
few really good things we want.
Now let's get positive.
I think Bobby Joe at the chamberis like She's a rock star.
SPEAKER_00 (27:46):
Man, she is awesome.
She's doing great things.
And and I think that and andClaude Krause at BVEP, I mean,
we we have we have probably thebest economic development guy in
the country.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:57):
And you got her and you got Sean Evans.
We got really good business-ledorganizations.
So if your company is notinvolved in those chambers and
going to those events and beingpart of those, you think of the
subcommittees, you think of thelet you know, what they do to
watch legislation and watch outfor business, and it's just
really well run.
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
Well, and we're always innovative, you know,
Leadership Boise, which is anincredible program.
You go to the case.
Talk about that a little bit.
You go for a year, nine months,one day each month, and you
spent um that day learning aboutthe law enforcement in the
valley or healthcare in thevalley, or uh whatever the case
may be.
And that and it's it'sparticipant run, it's really a
powerful program.
(28:35):
You have 40 or 50 people you gothrough with, you make lifelong
friends.
I go skiing every year with 11other guys, and we've gone every
year since 99, and almost allthose guys run my leadership
voice class.
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
But so it's designed because I I don't think enough
people know about leadershipvoice.
So leadership voice is designedfor young professionals wanting
to learn more about how to getinto the it's a wonderful way to
and most of the leadingcorporations in town send their
future leaders.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
Like this is a chance for them to learn about
their community.
And what happens is those peoplebecome engaged and then they end
up, you know, serving on boardsfor the health systems and and
the nonprofits, that type ofthing.
So so that's an amazing program.
But that started in Boise,Idaho, I think like Skip
Oppenheimer was like in thefirst class, right?
Well, now every chamber in thenation has that program.
(29:21):
They copied it from Boise,Idaho.
We this is I don't know what itis, and it this is my personal
philosophy is that you look atthe West, and every western
state, with I'd say theexception of Montana, has one
major MSA and then somesecondary M secondary markets,
you know, Seattle, Salt Lake,Denver, Boise.
(29:42):
Montana just has all thesehundred fifty to 150,000 uh
person markets.
But so and Boise is the mostgeographically isolated MSA in
the lower 48.
And so nobody, there was thisfeeling always that nobody is
going to do it for us.
We have to do it for ourselves.
Right, we're out in the middleof this desert by ourselves,
this high mountain desert.
(30:03):
And you look at places likeSpokane and some of the
challenges they're ham havingwith homelessness and crime and
substance abuse and and othercommunities like up and down
I-5.
I think in a lot of cases theylooked to the big city, like
look to Seattle or look to salt,like help us with this.
We didn't look to anybody, wejust did ourselves.
And that's always been the Idahoway, that's always been the
(30:24):
Boise way, and we have tocontinue that and not lose it.
And you can't, like you justsaid, sit back and watch others
do it.
If you're not actively involvedin your community, whether
you're teaching Sunday school,coaching soccer, serving on a
nonprofit board, whatever, youare not giving back to your
community.
You have to do that if you'renot going to be able to do that,
Mike.
SPEAKER_02 (30:40):
I think that's just awesome.
So chamber involvement inchambers is a big deal.
And the the programs are rich,they're really good for
especially for scaling anorganization, yeah, to get your
folks involved.
So that's great.
You you hit on the second one.
Um, I get asked all the time,what should I be doing?
I said, one, be part of achamber and get involved.
Second is a nonprofit board.
(31:01):
What there's not a morewonderful way for an aspiring
young professional that wants tomake a difference in a community
to just go volunteer on a board.
SPEAKER_00 (31:08):
I mean, our boys and girls club, we have like the
best boys and girls club in thecountry, right?
Crime, what does they say?
Crime drops one-third uh in acommunity when you had a boys
and girls club, but they needvolunteer leaders there, you
know, um, and uh boards ofsports, you know, soccer, rush,
whatever the case may be.
Um, you know, the ShakespeareFestival.
There's just so many, andthey're they're dying for people
(31:30):
to serve on these boards orserve on committees.
Angela Taylor, have you hadAngela on yet?
I haven't.
But we're trying.
SPEAKER_02 (31:35):
She's kind of like she's like the Mike Ballantyne
of my former women's MBA W.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
She is like, yeah, I mean, she's she was captain of
the Stanford women's basketballteam when they won the national
title and worked in the WBAT.
She's amazing.
Um but she's got her the TaylorLead Foundation that her father
and mother started, that she'staking statewide, helping young
women uh go to college who areathletes.
Her I win initiative, I mean,she's somebody, she is exactly
(32:01):
what we're talking about.
Someone who said, I I see aneed, I'm gonna help fill that
need, you know.
So And you're one of thosepeople, Tommy.
I mean, you've done tons ofthings.
SPEAKER_02 (32:09):
So if you if you think about commun so chambers,
community boards, and then civicengagement.
I do think I you look around ourvalley, um, what I like, we are
to live in a partisan worldwhere people want to rip each
other's throats out.
Yeah I mean it's I I'm surethere's been times in American
history where it's been thisbad, but I haven't delivered
anymore.
(32:30):
Yeah, probably the 1870s.
But um but I think we live in aa very, very blue Boise, right?
And then in a very, very redstate.
Yeah, oh yeah.
And and and I think as you marchacross the valley between Boise,
Garden City, Meridian, it getsredder, yeah.
Yeah, it gets redder as you getout, as you then you then you
get out to Caldwell.
But I will say um across thepolitical spectrum in and civic
(32:54):
leadership, I am so proud of allthose mayors.
I mean, I think they're doingsuch a great job in city
councils that are in tune withwhat's going on.
We're really lucky.
SPEAKER_00 (33:02):
Yeah, I mean, you and I had dinner with Senator
Rish.
Yeah.
And you know, sitting next toSenator Rish was Mayor McLean,
who's probably the mostprominent Democrat in the state
of Idaho right now, right?
And uh you had the mayor, uh umMayor Simmonson from Meridian
and Mayor Kling from Nampa, andthey're having robust, healthy
discussion about how to solvethe city.
SPEAKER_02 (33:26):
Yeah, it's funny to sit and listen to them argue
who's the fastest growing.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:30):
They're debating statistics of like Aaron McLean.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
We're all said that you and I were peacocking, and I
was like, well, what about youguys talking about whose city is
better?
I mean, come on.
So but that's it.
It's civ it's civil discourse,civic engagement, right?
It's going to city company.
SPEAKER_02 (33:45):
And if you think about it, I think it what I like
about politics at a local levelis um it doesn't get partisan
too often.
I mean, you're take tacklinghuge issues together in things
that matter, right?
Whether it be education orinfrastructure or homelessness
or transportation.
Yeah.
Um they're just issues that hithome.
It seems like it's where peoplestill can get to come together
(34:08):
and say, okay, how do we solvethis problem?
SPEAKER_00 (34:09):
I mean, I feel like we have great agreement on this
local level.
Even wherever you are on thespectrum, our challenge is a
little bit more on national,even on the state level, we
struggle a little bit.
SPEAKER_03 (34:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:19):
Um so I guess the optimism that we're talking
about is as many challenges weface, and we rattled those off
in a hurry.
You look equally, there aregreat people here.
I'm I'm betting.
I mean, I'm I'm not it's gonnabe we're gonna have challenges
for sure, but I think we've gota civic community, we've got a
nonprofit community, and abusiness community that is
(34:41):
really aligned on trying tosolve problems.
I and I just I'm betting on us.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Yeah, I am too.
I mean, I I we're in arenaissance.
That's the best way to say it.
I mean, this is a voiceyrenaissance, and it's I don't
see it ending anytime soon.
The only way it would end is ifwe lock the door and don't let
anybody else in.
You know, if we if we get sonegative.
SPEAKER_02 (35:01):
I've never I've never asked your take on
housing.
SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
Um what what what's your take on just housing prices
and uh we could go from one ofthe ten most affordable
communities in the in the UnitedStates to one of the ten least
affordable in 20 years?
SPEAKER_02 (35:15):
Yeah.
What what what is like if MikeBallantyne were king for a day
and could come in and say, hey,here's the policies, here's what
I would do at a state, locallevel to try to improve the cost
of housing, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00 (35:28):
Well, I mean, I think there's a few things.
One is that um communities allcommunity leaders all say we
want affordable housing, butthen when you talk about what
affordable housing looks like,they don't want that, right?
Yeah.
It it is very bare bones andbasic sometimes.
And um and cities get concernedabout that.
They don't want to create slums,and I get that.
So um so some of it is citiessaying, okay, we're it's
(35:51):
important to have affordablehousing here, and it doesn't
need to have X much open spaceand and X this and that and
those other things that we'rewe're really trying to create
that.
Um our our housing stock, we'veseen a ton of multifamily built
in the last few years, and andpeople have been a little bit
negative about that, and we'vehad some even some mayors say no
(36:12):
more apartments in my town.
Well, we historically have abouteight percent of our housing
stock in apartments andmultifamily in a typical healthy
market, is about 20%.
You have to have that type ofproduct.
What we're not seeing builteither is townhomes and condos
and that type of stuff, and youhave to have that type of
product because not everybodycan afford an 8,000 foot lot
with a 1,500-foot home on it.
(36:33):
Some people need a 900-squarefoot condo to start, right?
You know?
So so we've got to we've got tofigure that out.
Um and uh and cities sometimesdon't want that.
They this is too dense, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
You need more of everything.
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
Yeah, you need more of everything.
And you know, and part of ourchallenge has just been honestly
just material prices.
Things are expensive.
I mean, you know, inflation hasbeen pretty rampant, and we went
through COVID and then theinflation after COVID.
And um so that really getssolved, I think, through
innovation and technology, youknow, finding new ways or
cheaper ways to build, whetherit be Audovol and their modular
(37:10):
construction.
SPEAKER_02 (37:11):
Getting closer to where that makes sense here.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
I remember I remember they talked about that.
Uh um the guys at uh Trust Joycetalked about that in the 70s.
They bought 40 acres of meridianto build a uh plant to where
they could build modular housingto ship to Alaska during the oil
boom.
SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
When you go back, I think it was probably seven or
eight years ago with Kayla Rookwhen I was talking to him about
hey, well, why don't you do useany of this here?
And he's like, oh no, we're noteven close.
We have to go to Californiawhere it's ridiculous, right?
Right.
Well, we're getting close tothat.
We think it's ridiculous.
We're getting close now.
I mean, he what a great guy heis.
Oh my gosh.
That guy's he's the best.
Yeah.
Um of the things that maybe youcan speak to a little bit, it it
(37:49):
is harder to do anything rightnow.
SPEAKER_03 (37:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
Getting harder all the time.
So so in the middle, the onecomplaint, if it's a complaint
that I would have, is is webelieve supply and demand until
we don't.
And you can hear people that areyour elected officials talk
about, hey, we're our number oneissue is housing price.
We want to keep our kids here,we want to make it affordable.
Great.
They control the number.
(38:13):
Yeah, they don't control thecost of a two by four for sure,
but man, they make it hard.
It is brutally hard to get away.
SPEAKER_00 (38:21):
Well, look at ACHD's proposed ordinance where to
double the impact fees, right?
You're gonna have cheaperhousing if your impact fee that
you pay when you go pull abuilding permit is twice what it
was uh last year.
SPEAKER_02 (38:32):
And the process is just mind-numbing.
Oh, yeah.
To get through.
I mean, uh Steve Martinez wason, and we were talking about
just you know 20 years of homebuilding on his part and what it
was like to go do a littleduplex.
You know, because they also saybut they want infill, they want
infill, they want infill.
Well, go try to go do a duplexin Meridian right now.
Yeah.
Good luck.
Yeah.
I mean, they've made itimpossible.
(38:53):
Almost impossible.
SPEAKER_00 (38:55):
That's what that was my point.
SPEAKER_02 (38:56):
Yeah, they don't want it.
So I I I do think uh the housingthing, um that's in that's in a
lot of our local leaders'control to try to free that up.
I love what Spencer Cox is doingdown in uh Utah.
He he's he's one of his breakingdown the barriers.
Breaking down the barriers, andhe's like, our goal is to have
you know, it's 50,000 newstarter home new starts.
He's doing everything he can tojust streamline stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (39:16):
Well he does a lot of stuff like that.
He's got the whole disagreebetter uh program, right, with
the governor of Colorado.
And he he is uh he's a thoughtleader.
SPEAKER_02 (39:24):
I'm his fanboy, man.
I'm he's just I'm always textinghim saying, Man, I just love
what you just said.
Yeah, he's he's a really goodguy.
Hey, um man, I I knew this wouldhappen, Michael.
I wait, I wait, what, two yearsto get you on and then an hour
goes by so quick.
Oh yeah.
Oh well, wait two more years,yes.
Say in two years.
Can you talk about uh cycles incommercial real estate?
(39:46):
Because a lot, I mean, that'swhat we do together is
commercial real estate.
Think about like retail's dead,right?
Retail's dead, there's not gonnabe retail, office was boom, and
now office is I mean, office isdead, no one even wants to say
the word.
You got industrial, hotter thananything.
Right.
Talk about how you just have tosit back and be a little bit
patient as these things.
SPEAKER_00 (40:06):
Yeah, exactly.
You have to have a long-term uhview.
What did Mark Twain said?
Uh rumors of my demise have beengreatly exaggerated, right?
You know, everybody thoughtoffice was dead.
I literally have a client rightnow who I've worked with for
about six months, and when Istarted, they were three days in
the week.
Three days of the week, theiremployees had to be in office.
And then they went three days aweek in the office, and you got
(40:26):
to swipe your badges so we knowyou're really in the office.
Then it was four days and theyjust announced five days a week.
Because companies are realizingculture, efficiency, training,
all those things are better whenthe people are in the office.
So, so office, you're watchingoffice market tick away, get
tighter.
You know, we still have somecorrections that are happening,
(40:47):
or we've got some companies thathave too much space that they're
giving back and stuff like that.
But you know, our developershave shown restraint in this
market, and you know, most ofthe new office product is
actually old product that's comeback on the market with the
exception of some really coolbuildings along the freeway.
Um but uh but so uh you know,our office market is healthy,
(41:07):
our industrial market.
We had nothing.
SPEAKER_02 (41:10):
Talk about talk about industrial just because
we'll start dabbling in thatreally quick.
So I'm gonna get some freeadvice right now.
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
Yeah, it was 30 to 60,000 feet, it was a big
building back in the day, andyou know, our vacancy, our
market was controlled by onedeveloper, and our vacancy was
low.
And you know, you got a buildingout there near the airport
that's 900,000 square feet, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (41:29):
And Ron Van Auker was my neighbor for a lot of I'm
sure he was cussing about howstupid all these other guys are.
SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
But actually, that's a really key point in
development.
But one of the things that Clarkuh at BVEP really focused on is
how do we create a robustdeveloper community?
So when someone says, I want tocome to this market, there's
actually someone who can deliverquickly.
You're one of those people.
And so we have a really healthydevelop development community.
But you know, our our industrialmarkets are eight, nine percent
(41:59):
vacant, but and that's all stuffover fifty or 150,000 feet.
You get below 50,000 feet,there's no space.
Yeah, it's less than it's sub-3%vacant.
So so we'll work through it.
We absorb a million to a millionand a half square feet of
industrial year.
We'll continue to chip weightthe rock pile.
SPEAKER_02 (42:15):
We just built micron suppliers, just that alone,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
Yeah, I mean a year ago only 5% of our deals were
micron suppliers, right?
Now they're in on the industrialside, now it's about 20%.
So, you know, that's gonnacontinue to grow.
But we just got a littleaggressive and overbuilt, and
but that um that product isgetting absorbed.
And then retail, everybody saidwith retail, with Amazon, that
no one's gonna do retail.
And it has changed somewhat.
(42:38):
Retail now either has to be aservice that is Amazon proof.
You can't get your hair cut onAmazon, right?
So a salon, some of those typeof things, or it has to be an
experience, whether it be diningexperience.
That's why the village is sosuccessful, that's why hopefully
your project at 10 mile will beso successful, is that you have
to create an experience.
Why would I shop when I can justget it tomorrow from Amazon?
(43:00):
Well, because the experience isamazing.
And so that's why these oldmalls are getting demolished
because it wasn't an experience.
SPEAKER_02 (43:08):
What's gonna happen with our mall?
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
I think it'll change.
I mean, it's still a greatlocation.
Yeah, I think it'll change.
There'll probably be more mixeduse.
I bet you'll see more housing.
I heard the Apple storesleaving.
I don't know about that.
I love Apple products.
I don't know about that.
I mean, the challenge isdemographically the valley has
shifted too.
So the mall used to be the verycenter of the valley, and then
it was Fairview and Eagle, andnow it's literally 10 mile is
(43:31):
the very center of the valley.
And with Highway 16, you'regonna see more growth to the
west, and that'll probably shiftto 16 and 84.
So as the valley, we can't growto the east a little bit,
Mayfield Springs, right?
But you can't really grow toomuch to the east or the
southeast because of theairport.
So you're going to see acontinued shift.
And a lot of folks still viewBoise as a one-store market and
(43:52):
they want to be right in themiddle of the market, right?
And so that that's hard on themall.
SPEAKER_02 (43:56):
Um And then we we hit multifamily.
Um you guys uh you guys do somereporting on that.
Uh it stopped, right?
I mean, there's no new starts.
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
Well, what's interesting is so you know, uh
we overbuilt that product too.
We overbuilt industrial, weoverbuilt multifamily, but that
product is getting absorbedpretty well.
The uh incentives fromdevelopers or owners are down
20%.
Um vacancy, I think, right now,is 94%.
So it's pretty healthy.
Um what we're seeing a lot isactivity from multifamily
(44:30):
developers looking for sitesbecause by the time they get the
site entitled and built, it'sgoing to be 27, 28.
Then we're out of it.
And we're we're at we're throughthat.
Given current absorption cycles,um, you want to be coming out of
the ground in night in 2027 or2028.
So it's it's just a little bitof an oversupply.
Hey, um, because we're down toit.
Um, well, let me just say onemore thing.
(44:50):
It does help affordability whenwe have too much product, supply
and demand, right?
So uh owners are given free mefree rent or rent concessions.
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
Yeah, uh sometimes I sit and listen to parks and I'm
like, just look at your currentmarket, that's how it works.
So that's why we need moreduplexes.
We need more condos, we needmore starter homes.
We it it just, you know, becauselook at even the rental market,
the pressure eased off as soonas we had supply.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (45:15):
We went through that period post-COVID 2021 to now
where you know things wereridiculous.
I mean, 2021 was stupid.
Yeah right.
And because we had basicallyabout 18 to 20 months of pent-up
growth when nothing had happenedand that all popped in 2021,
that we don't want that, right?
What we want is what we'reseeing today, which is healthy,
balanced, steady growth, right?
SPEAKER_02 (45:36):
Hey, uh what what uh how old are you?
SPEAKER_00 (45:41):
I was told there'd be no personal questions.
I'm 58.
SPEAKER_02 (45:44):
So we're the same, what are the same things?
SPEAKER_00 (45:46):
I knew that.
I thought you knew that.
SPEAKER_02 (45:47):
I thought I thought I did.
I you just look younger.
Uh no, so 58.
Um what what lessons do yougive?
I know you mentor a lot ofpeople.
What are your kind of kids thatcome into you and say, hey,
Mike, I want to I want a careerlike yours.
What are what are the few thingsyou would tell anyone that came
in?
SPEAKER_00 (46:03):
Well, uh a couple things.
One is education, right?
There are some greatopportunities like in commercial
real estate, go get your CCIM,your SIR, continue your
education.
When you stop learning, youstart dying, right?
So continue to learn, whether itbe uh situational learning where
you can go listen to a speaker,go to kerosene, you know,
whatever the case may be, gosomething like that and learn.
(46:23):
I think that's really, reallyimportant.
Read.
You know, I try to read everyday.
Uh take some time for yourself,it's also good for your soul.
And then get involved again, getinvolved with the community,
right?
People do business with peoplethey know and trust, right?
And if you're sitting next tosomebody on a nonprofit board or
on a task force and you get toknow them, you're more likely to
(46:43):
use them as your doctor or asyour commercial real estate
broker or as your propertymanager or as your developer,
right?
Dude, that is rich.
SPEAKER_02 (46:50):
That's gonna be a clip right there.
I don't know about that.
That's gonna be a clip that'sshared right there.
That that's I mean, I couldn'tagree anymore.
I mean, well, you love it too.
And but if you just I mean,that's a really concise way of
saying, hey, here's and andthey're pretty easy steps,
right?
I mean, it's it's not notsetting artificial it's it's so
strange to me that um where I'vereally seen it is I I'm able to
help with mission 43 a lot.
(47:11):
Yep, great organization.
But you have these guys come outof the military that are studs.
Right, right.
And they get out in the and andand and they're like, oh man,
and I think when they hear fromthe business community, like we
never stop learning.
We always, it's and they'relike, oh, I can kind of just
merge into this community ofbusiness leaders where
everyone's all it's not like youever arrive.
SPEAKER_00 (47:31):
You know, that's another thing I found at Boise
that's different.
And I I've seen it when I was upand spoke hand that's really
different.
People come, you know, you get aphone call and say, Hey, Tommy
Alquist said I should go havecoffee with you.
You're one of the people Ishould know on Boise, and you go
have coffee with them, andthey're great, and then you say,
Hey, you know, you should knowthis guy.
It uh there's a great bookcalled The Go Giver.
Yeah, it's that concept.
That is Boise to a T.
(47:51):
It is.
That is not every community thatwe are in.
Uh we go to some othercommunities and they are like,
you know, what do you want fromme?
And they are really closed.
And that's part of what makesBoise, I think, so successful.
But I don't know about you.
I love the the nonprofit side,the community side.
I get more, you know, serving onSt.
Alphonse's board was uh duringCOVID, I was the chair of
(48:14):
SARMAC.
Uh and post-COVID, I was chairof the health system.
I mean, that was more rewardingto me sometimes than than than
work itself, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (48:22):
You know, and that the this eternal principle that
like you go to serve others andyou get down, whether that's a a
day of service, a week ofservice, or five years on a
board, I mean, you go to serveand you you look back at what
did I give, and what you get isexponentially more than what
you're so much more.
And that that that loop neverends, right?
I try to help you and you giveme more back.
(48:43):
Yeah, and and and you get back,it it builds a pretty rich life.
Yeah.
Oh, I think that's right.
I mean, when you sit back andlook at hey, of my my service,
my time given to St.
Als, the board you're on, youyou'll say, I got way back more
than I ever served.
So so that's a I mean, thateternal, like, and it brings
happiness.
SPEAKER_00 (49:00):
Yeah, when I when I'm 90 years old, I'm not gonna
remember how many Costco's Idid, but I'll remember my time
with St.
Als or the Salvation Army or orBVEP or other organizations for
sure.
SPEAKER_02 (49:10):
Man, I love you, man.
You're a great friend.
Thank you so much for coming onand all you do in the community.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
You're a great, great example toso many.
Thank you.
Thanks.
All right, thanks, everybody.
Today on the Ever Onward Podcast, we have Michael
Ballantyne.
Michael is a long, longtimefriend.
He is absolutely one of thepillars of our community here in
the Treasure Valley.
He is literally involved inevery nonprofit and effort that
is making this place great andhas made it great for a long
time.
He's a seventh generationIdahoan.
(00:21):
Mike has been the managingpartner of TOK Commercial, which
is the largest commercial realestate brokerage and property
management company in TreasureValley, now regionally.
He's been that for the last 20years.
He is the go-to for all thingsthat has to do with commercial
real estate in Idaho, andespecially here in the Treasure
(00:42):
Valley, and most importantly, anincredible friend, uh
philanthropist, uh carrying onthe heritage of his parents.
I'm really excited to have himon today, uh, Michael
Ballantine.
(01:02):
Michael Ballantyne.
This is gonna be fun.
SPEAKER_03 (01:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05):
We've been trying to get you on forever.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
I'm as busy as you are.
You're a tough, you're a toughperson in the book here.
Well, you have more m many morefascinating people, I think,
that uh go to the top of thelist.
SPEAKER_02 (01:16):
I uh I there's a few people that come on and they
need to like prep a little bitwith you.
I don't.
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
Because my mother said I'vemastered half the art of
conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
So uh we were just in DC together.
Yeah.
And between you and I tellingstories.
Yeah.
We get a few eye rolls and itmakes for a great dinner.
Yeah.
Uh it goes by quickly.
I'm sure this will go byquickly.
But hey, uh, I've known you fora long time.
I think you're uh I'm not justblowing smoke here.
You've got to be one of themost, the most rep, you know,
(01:48):
you look in the real estateworld, you're the go-to, uh
reputation.
Thank you.
Um you're involved in thechamber and every other.
I'm thinking St.
Al's.
I mean, I just off the top of myhead, all the different things
you've done over the years.
Yeah, there's a lot of peoplethat talk about giving back, and
then there's Mike Ballantyne whodoes, right?
So there's a lot of things totalk about today.
But um, for those who don't knowyou as well as I do, I mean,
(02:10):
this is uh this Idaho thingmeans a lot to you, and you've
got stories that go back.
I mean, just from DC last week,we were talking about things.
So tell me a little bit aboutgrowing up here.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
Well, so uh my family's been here seven
generations now, since 1863.
Came from Scotland.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
That's longer than uh old uh Brad.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Yeah, well, Brad and I are distant relatives,
actually.
So we our families came from thesame area and married again.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
I used to hate that when we were in the campaign,
though, because here I was goingup against him.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
We'd be up in Moscow, right?
You were at the University ofIdaho giving a speech, and one
of my favorite things he'd say,Well, you know Genesee right
down the road.
Well, my great grand auntMarthaunt Martha planted the
first lilac butch there, andit's still there if you go into
town, and I'm like, oh man.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Oh, their family take all the steam.
This had a huge impact in Idaho,so yeah, for sure.
But uh yeah, born and raisedhere, and um uh I'm actually
adopted.
My parents adopted six kids, allfrom birth from all over the
Pacific Northwest and uh WesternCanada, and uh had a great
upbringing.
My dad was a broker anddeveloper, um, a reformed dairy
(03:16):
farmer.
Um my grandfather was a reformeddairy farmer and also a broker
and developer.
So I grew up in the back of mydad's old travel hall when he
was selling farms and ranches,and he developed a lot of stuff
around Cascade Lake, and and uhso it was a fun life, you know.
It was like uh it was my my momwas gonna write a book once uh
called Champagne and Hot Dogsbecause uh our family was, you
(03:38):
know, my dad'd be doing amillion-dollar deal over here,
and my mom would be cutting hotdogs in the craft macaroni and
cheese to feed all these kids,and you know, so uh spent some
time in DC working for USAID asa contractor, actually, in Latin
America and Africa primarily,the former Soviet bloc.
It was fantastic.
US Day USA ID was an amazingorganization, it's a tragedy,
(03:59):
it's no longer around.
But um, and uh it was time tocome back, so came back and
tried to figure out what Iwanted to be when I grow up.
I'm still trying to figure itout.
But got into real estate andbeen doing that ever since, and
lucky enough to land at T O Kand we've had a wild ride.
It's been really fun.
SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
You guys are you guys are the go-to.
Um, what what you're the you'vebeen the managing partner for a
long time.
SPEAKER_00 (04:21):
For a while, yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I think since 2005.
Yeah, I was gonna say it's gotyeah, 20 years.
With my killer and then uh andthen solo after that.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Hey, uh, I didn't know you were adopted.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Oh yeah, my parents are my dad's passed, but my
parents were amazing humanbeings and adopted six kids all
from birth.
Um my mother was a high schoolgirl who got in trouble, and I
was likely a booth baby.
That was why I co-chaired thatcampaign to build a new booth
home on Emerald, uh the newSalvation Army facility.
SPEAKER_02 (04:49):
Yeah, talk a lot.
Well, you said a lot rightthere, but um adoption's near
and dear to us.
Two of our children are adopted,and it's like an absolute
miracle.
We love we love talking aboutit.
It's just it's uh one of thecoolest things we've ever done.
But um the booth house was a bigdeal.
I want to talk about I mean theproblem with today is we're
(05:10):
gonna be able to talk about it.
I mean this was a big thing, andyou led that campaign.
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
Yeah, I co-chaired that with Jennifer Delgard,
who's Tom Nicholson's daughter,amazing human being.
And um, you know, I went and didthe tour.
Eric Bolinder asked me to go outand take a look and did the
tour, and then they get you in acorner and they always ask you
for cash.
And and buddy asked me to chairthe campaign, and originally it
was a seven and a half milliondollar campaign, and it ended up
being a ten million dollarcampaign.
(05:35):
But that home had been thereforever.
Um women from all over theUnited States had gone and had
children there.
So um, high school girls had gotin trouble, so to speak.
Um, but the the last campaignwas in 1968, and J.R.
Simplot shared that campaign.
So facility was little, a littlerun down and in the wrong
(05:57):
location.
It was in the north end.
So we built a new facility,Salvation Army Service Center on
uh Emerald near Central DistrictHealth, near St.
Alphonsus, near the mall.
All amendees and services, thattype of thing.
So it was it was a uh it was abig campaign, took about five
years, but it was fantastic.
And uh they actually have aschool there called Cardinal
Academy.
Yeah, um, and the girls andboys, the fathers can actually
(06:20):
go there as well, and they canstay until they graduate.
They don't have to go back oncethey've had the child.
So it's a great program.
SPEAKER_02 (06:26):
It's a beautiful building.
Yeah, yeah, really nice to beable to do that.
Talking about change.
How's it been?
It's been probably I don't knowhow many years ago you open.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
I think we finished in well, we started in 2015.
I think we finished 2020.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
Yeah, so what have the results been like?
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
I think it's been good.
I haven't been as involved.
Um I don't serve on the board oranything like that, but I think
they were able to consolidate alot of services, move off of
State Street, move out of theNorth End, uh, be in a real
highly highly visible locationon the bus line, uh, more able
to serve uh folks.
But I think it's been great.
So um but Salvation Army doesgreat work.
(07:00):
They do the Lord's work, it's afantastic organization.
SPEAKER_02 (07:03):
That's great.
Well, thanks for thanks forbringing that up.
I think again, there's gonna beso many things to talk about
today, but but yourphilanthropic kind of heart,
does that come from yourparents?
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
Um yeah, my parents were super involved.
Um my dad retired early, he didreally well, and uh uh it was it
was the the oil shock in the the80s and and 18% interest rates,
and he's just like, why am Idoing that?
So I'm gonna go down to BSU andpaint watercolors.
And he started the K Kidsprogram and uh um planted trees
(07:38):
all over the valley.
In fact, our house we had fiveacres, three of those acres were
a tree farm, so they could planttrees at elementary schools
because the school districtscouldn't afford trees, right?
So so you know, I kind of grewup at the uh north end of the
shovel helping in the community,and my parents really preached
that giving back to whom much isgiven, much is expected, right?
SPEAKER_02 (07:58):
So yeah, so were were they raised that way too?
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, I mean I think that's onething that makes Boise great.
You know, I think there are alot of people that were raised
that way, and I think we weemphasize it at T O K.
In fact, one we have 33 partnersnow, um and it's one thing that
makes our model a lot different.
And uh, you know, we're in sevenwe have seven offices, 33
partners.
We're in Idaho, Oregon,Washington, Montana, Utah.
(08:23):
But the offices are only inIdaho and Washington right now.
But um but we have certaincriteria like for a broker to
become a partner and it'sproduction and time with the
company and and designations,getting additional education and
training.
But one of the criteria is theyhave to prove that they're
involved in the fabric of thecommunity that they get back.
Um, you know, we we benefit fromgrowth, as do you, right?
(08:45):
And uh growth is great, but ifyou're not uh working hard to
protect what makes Boise anamazing place, um you're gonna
lose what makes this placespecial.
And I want this, I want mygrandkids and great-grandkids
and others to live here and loveit as much as I do.
I love this town.
Yeah, that's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (09:00):
So that's great.
So let's talk a little bit aboutT OK.
So when you come in um uh 20years ago, you believe that,
Mike?
Yeah.
I'm old.
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
That's Tommy.
SPEAKER_02 (09:10):
Old.
You've been the managing partnerfor 20 years ago.
Yeah, I was gonna say, as longas I've kind of known you,
you've been the managingpartner.
But um talk about uh riding thatride.
Because I think 20 years ago youdidn't have offices all over.
No, we just have to do that.
So you've scaled you've scaled alot.
Yeah, we were much smaller.
Just been dominant kind of herein this market.
(09:32):
What what is uh what has it beenlike to grow the business?
And then talk a little bit.
Uh one of the things that I'msure everyone that sees you on
this podcast want to know ishey, what's it been like with
growth?
What are you seeing?
What's going on out there?
But that's a lot to cover, butstart with just the business.
SPEAKER_00 (09:47):
Well, I mean, T O K, I mean it was originally started
by three guys Thornton Oliverand and later Mike Keller and uh
Tim Thorn and Peter Oliverstarted the firm, CBRE guys that
came to Boise providing qualitythird-party brokerage and
management.
There just wasn't that in ourmarket.
And uh and it's just been anamazing ride.
We have a fantastic team,incredible brokers.
(10:09):
Um, our market share is isstupid.
I think in every market exceptuh inland northwest, you know,
our market share is better thana third.
Um and that's un unheard of.
You go to any other market, andmaybe the dominant player will
be 12 to 15 percent marketshare.
So and that's with a lot of bignationals coming in the market.
So um, we've been really lucky.
And I think our our model isdifferent.
(10:30):
We um we believe in ownership,we um we uh celebrate our
successes and really raise up attypical brokerage.
The brokers are these rock star,you know, professional athletes,
and everybody else's sort of jobis to make them look good.
And we don't play that way, youknow.
I don't care if you're amaintenance person, a day
porter, a support person, thereceptionist, what you get.
(10:52):
We spend as much time liftingthem up as we do the brokers.
And I mean, we had a deal in2020 2021 was our 30-year
anniversary, and we hadeverybody in my backyard, and we
had uh everybody got threeenvelopes.
The first envelope was uh 30hours of PTO, the second
envelope was three hundreddollars cash, ten thirty ten
(11:13):
dollar bills thirty years,right?
And the final envelope was atravel voucher for three
thousand dollars anywhere in theworld, right?
Because those people had donethat, they they were the reason
we were so successful.
And I don't care we had peoplethat had been there two weeks
that got a trip, right?
So we try to really celebrateour people, take care of our
people, recognize um uh peoplecreate success.
(11:37):
Our biggest challenge is growth,you know, in that I think growth
for growth's sake is nothealthy, but growth to create
opportunity for your people isreally important for your
clients and customers, wellsaid, and for your people,
right?
And so so we really want, youknow, the the the thing I hate
is when we do before we came onthe podcast, we're talking about
people leaving, right?
And the thing I hate is wheresomeone says, Hey, I have to
(11:58):
leave because my supervisorwould have to die or quit for me
to get a promotion.
And so we we do a couple things.
We really look for situationalleadership opportunities.
Hey, we're gonna roll out thisnew software, we'd like you to
lead that, you know.
And it may not be a supervisortype position, but giving them a
chance and opportunity.
SPEAKER_02 (12:16):
It's super rewarding too when you see that happen.
And it happens organically withpeople that are committed and
then they grow into something.
It's there's nothing better thanthat.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
You have leaders by position and you have leaders by
personality.
And there are we have a ton ofleaders who are not on the
leadership team, but they areleaders by by personality or or
by the type of human being thatthey are.
The other thing is is um isgrowth through um, you know,
just natural organic growth.
And so that's either in cr in inuh service lines, like we now
(12:47):
have appraisal evaluationcompany, we purchase Mountain
States appraisal.
We're partners with Joe Corlett,he's an amazing human, and uh
and most big brokerage houseshave uh uh appraisal company.
We bought Intermountain propertyservices, we provide um, in
addition to property management,a lot of property services for
our clients, um, and that's abig piece of our business.
(13:08):
So that allows more opportunityfor leadership, that type of
thing.
So it's uh growth and servicelines, and then of course
geographic growth.
So, you know, we just opened inJune our Spokane office, and you
know, I think we've got 150 to175 people, and and uh so so
that gives people an opportunityto to to uh move up within the
organization, that type ofthing, because of additional
(13:28):
responsibilities, but it also isreally good for our client.
We you know, most of our 50% ofour transactions are done with
folks from out of town who arecoming to Boise, buying property
in Boise, that type of thing.
And one of their first questionsis where else should I be going?
And you know, Idole Falls, TwinFalls, Cordelaine, Spokane, uh,
Oregon, Tri-Cities, you know, Icall them lifestyle markets.
(13:51):
You know, we our model is alittle different in that we um
we don't want to be the biggest,we don't want to sell more
widgets than anybody else.
We um we want to be the best.
And one of our deals that reallysets us apart is this research
model that we have where wedon't we don't participate with
CoStar and LoopNet and all thatstuff.
We build our own database.
(14:11):
We go in right now, we're inSpokane building the database,
we use the county information,city information, all the other
resources.
We we track 125 million squarefeet in the markets that we
well, it's okay.
It's our own proprietary.
We have this brilliant guy, JoshPaul, who built this software,
and it is incredible.
It's built on the on the SQLServer.
(14:31):
So if I tell you the market, um,you know, the industrial market
is 5.1% vacant, it is literally5.1.
It's not a sampling or anythinglike that.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
It's the actual Well I talk a little bit for those
listening.
Like those other those other umdatabases are national, yeah,
and they rely a lot of onself-reporting, right?
Right.
And they're terrible.
SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
You're lucky if they're 70% accurate in Boise,
and you get into smallermarkets, they're not even
closed.
SPEAKER_02 (14:56):
Well, sometimes if they're taken as gospel, too,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
Yeah.
By a lot of people.
And they're in Idaho'snon-disclosure state.
So they'll literally see arecorded deed of trust for a
million dollars and say, well,that's sold for a million
dollars.
Well, that was just the loan.
Yeah.
That wasn't the actual purchaseprice.
But we love those markets.
We call them lifestyle markets.
If it's on the cover of MountainBiking Magazine or Outside
Magazine, it's probably a marketwe want to be in.
Boise and Spokane will probablybe the biggest markets we ever
(15:19):
go into because you have to beable to get your arms all the
way around the market.
And in a Seattle or an LA, youcan't get every building, every
transaction tracked.
So that gives us a hugecompetitive advantage.
And you're looking at highgrowth markets.
So you're in high growth marketswhere there's not a lot of
national competitors, right?
Where you've got better datathan anybody else, and it it
(15:39):
leads to success.
And then that that flywheel ofproperty management and
brokerage feeding each other,and you sell a building and you
turn over to propertymanagement.
But at the end of the day, it'sall about taking really good
care of your clients.
You know that, and you do agreat job with that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
It's all that matters, right?
Yeah.
Every time someone says thatreminds me of a story I was uh,
you know, the bodybuilding.comsguy guy.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I remember Ryan giving talkto the it was a it wasn't the
chamber, but it was a big event.
There had to be like 300 peoplethere.
And I was sitting at one of thetables up front, and I'd never
(16:14):
heard him.
I knew him, and he's a greatguy.
Like you get around those twoguys.
Yeah, high energy.
High energy.
And and you know, it's one ofthose things where it's like,
who made this work?
And then you get to know him,you're like, okay, I get it now.
Yeah.
Anyway, he he gets up front andhe's giving a talk, a formal
talk to all these people.
And um, he's talking about thehis his success and the reason
he had success.
(16:34):
And he gets to customers andrepeat customers and taking care
of them.
And I'll never forget, I wassitting at a table with the
mayor of Meridian and a bunch ofdignitaries up front, and he
says, Hey, at bodybuilding.com,we don't just take care of our
customers, we dry hump them.
SPEAKER_00 (16:49):
Well, we don't do that for our clients.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Seriously, like it was like it was like one of the
few times in my life I lookaround the table like, okay, is
everyone gonna laugh?
Interesting terminology.
What are they gonna do?
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (17:01):
But in his vernacular and how he's doing
it, but I've always like ininternally in our company, we'll
say, You remember what RyanDeLuca said about taking care of
people?
Right.
But his point, it was a veryvivid way of remembering it's
all it's all about repeatbusiness.
Yeah, if you've thought aboutyour repeat business over your
career in real estate.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
Well, we are so lucky.
Peter Ulver, you know, who's agreat broker, he calls it
blocking and tackling.
It's just doing the right thingevery day, calling your clients
back.
You know, nothing is morefrustrating than if I get a call
from somebody who says, I'vebeen trying to get a hold of
this broker for three days.
I just want to just drive crazy.
That's the blocking andtackling.
It's not your latest technologyand and uh podcasts or anything
(17:43):
like that.
It's just blocking and tackling,it's just taking care of your
clients and and being a goodidea.
SPEAKER_02 (17:48):
Is there anything more irritating than that too?
I've had that happen a coupletimes where it's like, hey, you
know, we had you know, it'sbusiness, right?
Yeah, it's it's business, it'slooking for a place to land.
Hey, I I can't get a hold ofyour guy.
I know you can't get a hold ofthe guy.
Yeah, I know you just go throughthe roof, right?
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
Everybody has stuff going on and we're all super
busy, and and sometimes ithappens, you know, you're out of
cell phone range, you'rehunting, or whatever.
And but it's that you know,overcommunication is the key,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (18:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
Great.
Uh let's switch to growth.
Wow.
Yeah.
We've been riding the tiger,right?
So we've been lucky.
We're lucky, right?
Yeah, and you know, we're in somany markets, and there is no
market like Boise.
I mean, it is by far and awayour best market, and we're in
some great markets, but it is itis crazy good.
SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
It's not slowing down.
I want to get into that withyou.
And kind of uh it isinteresting.
I spent two at least two days,what did it say, Thursday, two
days this week in significantconversations about people that
are just kind of tired of it.
Oh yeah.
Growth fatigue is a real deal.
So back in the day when we didEighth Main and we do these
projects, and everyone's ohgreat, you know, you're bringing
(18:55):
top golf, or you're filling thehole, and you're those days are
over, man.
They they don't want to seeuntil you get to the other side.
SPEAKER_00 (19:03):
I mean, if I had to take one or the other, I mean I
lived here in the 80s, yeah, andit was last guy out shut out the
lights.
I mean, Boise was dying, andBoise looked like a war zone
downtown Call Yours magazine,had that famous article, Boise
the only city to dismantleitself.
We had torn down all thesebuildings.
SPEAKER_02 (19:18):
I think Dirk Kemcourt Chem Thorne, I've been
around him a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
He calls it Little Beirut.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And it was uh it was terrible,but we were planning for the
future.
And but kids would graduate highschool, they go away to college
and they want to come back, youknow, and I want to create a
community where people want tocome back to.
SPEAKER_02 (19:34):
Do you remember that's all we talked about the
early 2000s, even all anyonetalked about, every board we
were on is how do we keep ourkids here?
How do we get wages?
How do how do we how do we stopthem from going away to school?
How do we stop, you know?
And you did a really good job ofit talking about it.
Well, and you think about, youknow, I I wasn't here, I got
here in the 90s, but you look atyou look at those early days of
Custra and what Boise Statebecame and kind of went on and
(19:57):
the oh yeah and and now all of asudden, okay, Boise State is not
you know your kids don't goaway, they go to Boise State.
Yeah, big deal keeping themhere.
You look at CWI, yeah, thatspin-off and what Gordon's
doing.
So you look at educationallywhat's going on.
There was always the outdoors.
Right.
There was always the arts.
You think of Shakespeare andMorrison Center, and so so there
was all these elements that weregreat.
Yeah.
But then what happened was allof a sudden you had wages, you
(20:21):
had jobs, it was discovered.
So it's what we all wanted.
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
Right.
And it happened.
But I think you know, Boise inthe 70s was growing like crazy.
It was all those fortune 50companies.
I mean, there was an articlethat said Boise had more
millionaires per capita thananywhere in the country back in
the 70s.
And you know, you had MorrisonKnudsen and Orwita and Simplot
and HP and Albertsons and allthese Boise Cast came out these
amazing companies.
SPEAKER_02 (20:44):
You think about Morrison Knudson, the largest
construction company in theworld was centered here.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
You had HP going crazy.
Yeah, their largest operationoutside.
Boise.
SPEAKER_00 (20:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but but uh part of ourgrowth goes back to those guys
who, you know, the guys inMorrison Knutsen, they lived all
over the world.
Yeah.
And they're like, well, whydon't we have a world-class
performing arts center?
Yeah.
Why don't we have a world uhworld-class football team?
You know, white and Shakespeareand the Morrison Center and all
these incredible parks.
I mean, those go back to the1800s where people were thinking
(21:16):
about how do I make this abetter place?
I mean, there are some greatphotos, if you get a chance, in
at uh Boise City, Boise CityDepartment of Art and History,
the Idaho uh Historical Societyof this valley.
This was ugly.
Yeah it was so ugly.
And they made paradise out ofout of the desert.
This is a high mountain desert.
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
Very much the Simplot family, the Albertson
family.
When you think about theheritage here, oh yeah.
Absolutely.
And and and those roots, thatfabric, is what made the the
growth possible, the keepingyour kids here, the wages
possible.
So that was always the beautifulpart of this, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:50):
Oh, yeah.
But I mean, here's a great sothe where the village is today,
okay, that was Harry Morrison'suh stables where he kept his
huge draft horses and his plows,what they call blades, to cut
all the canals that created theirrigation system that allowed
us to grow initially throughagribusiness, right?
In fact, when they wereexcavating for the village, they
(22:10):
kept finding these gianthorseshoes, right?
And they even found off theoffice draft horses and nails
and that type of stuff.
So yeah, it's it's crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (22:20):
But now it's discovered.
We and listen, I don't sometimeson this podcast we talk about
the the people that have comehere from outside um that over
the last 10 years.
There is a big time anti-growthsediment.
I think I think California getsa bad name here, but yeah, they
they earn it.
Yeah.
Because in every hearing I'm in,it's largely Californians that
(22:43):
have been here the last three orfour years saying, hey, stop
this thing.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
Yeah.
But I'll tell you what, Iremember standing on the beach
at Cascade Lake as a kid, andthere was a guy who was an
executive at HP who had come andwhen HP first came, and it was
the 80s.
It'd been he'd been here about10 years, and he was like, Oh,
we gotta shut the door.
We cannot let these people in.
And my dad's like, somebody letyou in, somebody let us in, you
know, in 1863, you know.
(23:06):
Probably not, they weren'tprobably real happy about us
coming.
So, so there is that.
I just I I don't have anyproblem with people coming as
long as they share our valuesand they want to keep Boise what
makes Boise special, right?
But but the biggest issue wehave is a strain on our
services, right?
Yeah.
And education and roads and thattype of stuff.
I was talking to a guy who soldhot tubs, and he's like, I was
(23:28):
like, how's it going?
He's like, Oh my gosh, I justhad the best year of my life.
It's crazy.
And in the next sentence, he'stalking about how terrible
growth is.
Well, all those hot tubs arebeing sold to houses that people
are buying that are moving fromother places, so you can't have
it both ways, but it isincumbent upon him and you and
me to make sure that this citygrows properly or this valley
grows properly.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
So what are the what are some of those elements?
What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
We need to get a bypass south of town, I've
heard.
I heard somebody is leading thateffort, you know, that's really
important.
Yeah, I mean, I mean it'stransportation, it's education.
We've got to be.
SPEAKER_02 (23:59):
And let's talk about micron.
No, none of no one loves thethat story better.
Like we didn't mention thateither.
Did you hear Micron, born andbred here?
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
Basement of a dentist's office at Northview
and Cole Road.
SPEAKER_02 (24:10):
And now it's fifty billion dollars being spent
here.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:14):
When they announced the first FAB, it was 15
billion.
Right.
I went back and looked, 10 yearsof building permits through the
city of Boise was 10 billion.
So so I mean, we're talking 50years of value in just building
permit.
And it's a it's an odd way tomeasure it.
But if the impact is true, isthere so um infrastructure
(24:37):
power?
You talk about power.
SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
Yeah, Lisa Grove talks about having to get 40
years of infrastructure, power,infrastructure, power demand
built in five years, right?
And it's not just from peoplemoving in, but it's from
industry.
And uh yeah, it's it's I mean,we've got we've got
infrastructure issues, we've goteducation issues.
We have to double down oneducation rather than cutting
back on it.
You know, we've got we've gottransportation issues, uh,
(25:02):
healthcare, right?
You know, we have a healthcaresystem that works.
Yeah.
We're we're blessed to have twoincredible health systems
between St.
Luke's and St.
Alphonsus.
And um, but you know, you youSt.
Alphonsus actually has anotherhospital in their system, St.
Agnes and Fresno, and it is dayand night between what we deal
with in Boise or Nampa orOntario Break Your City and what
they're dealing with.
(25:24):
Well, she at the end, she theythey put her over that.
Well, they they added becauseSt.
Alphonse is so successful, theysaid, well, let's just, you
know, Idaho and Oregon are rightnext to California.
Let's just add St.
Agnes to this health system.
And um, and those people areincredible people at St.
Agnes.
They're doing the Lord's work.
But Fresno and California ingeneral are they're struggling
with health care.
(25:45):
Highly regulated, their theirpayment model doesn't work.
It just and and we still, youknow, it it generally still
works in Idaho.
I mean, we we actually our ourmodel is probably 30 years old
compared to other places, butlike I don't even know anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
I this weekend I went and visited a friend in the
ER in downtown St.
Louis.
So I spent a significant portionof my life down there.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
I found out about you.
But it was I was just there,there for a few hours.
And um, first of all, the theweird thing for me, I don't I
went in expecting to know somenurses.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
And you didn't know anybody.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Yeah.
Liz, the unit clerk, ran up andgave me a hug.
It was and I said, Liz, there'sgotta be someone else here.
You never go back, Tommy.
There's no one.
It's just changed.
Like it's just changed.
It's big, it's busy, it's Idon't know.
SPEAKER_00 (26:35):
Well, it's weird healthcare, the payment model
doesn't work, the the deliverymodel doesn't work, uh
technology isn't keeping up, youknow, but yet we deliver the
best healthcare in the world.
We do.
And that all goes back to thosepeople that are working in the
trenches.
We have incredible doctors andnurses.
SPEAKER_02 (26:50):
And how do we approach all that support
people?
I mean, I mean, you just youjust rattled off the challenges.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
It's engagement.
I mean, it's being active in theBoise Metro Chamber of Commerce,
it's being active in BVEP, it'sgoing to city council meetings,
it's it's serving on commission.
So your point is no one's gonnacome solve these issues for us,
right?
That's what we've always done inthis valley.
We I love in a desert and we cutcanals, right?
Yeah, the New York Canal iscalled the New York Canal
because we went to New York Cityand went to New York life and
(27:16):
said, hey, we want to borrowthis money so we can cut these
canals and uh and irrigate thedesert.
We can do it.
None of these challenges uhcan't be overcome.
For people out there allinvolved.
SPEAKER_02 (27:26):
The one I want to get some sage wisdom from
Michael Ballantyne.
Well, you're in trouble.
But if you're if you're ifyou're talking, there's people
that listen to this for thosebecause I think sitting back and
waiting for the involvementwe're talking about is there's a
few really good things we want.
Now let's get positive.
I think Bobby Joe at the chamberis like She's a rock star.
SPEAKER_00 (27:46):
Man, she is awesome.
She's doing great things.
And and I think that and andClaude Krause at BVEP, I mean,
we we have we have probably thebest economic development guy in
the country.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:57):
And you got her and you got Sean Evans.
We got really good business-ledorganizations.
So if your company is notinvolved in those chambers and
going to those events and beingpart of those, you think of the
subcommittees, you think of thelet you know, what they do to
watch legislation and watch outfor business, and it's just
really well run.
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
Well, and we're always innovative, you know,
Leadership Boise, which is anincredible program.
You go to the case.
Talk about that a little bit.
You go for a year, nine months,one day each month, and you
spent um that day learning aboutthe law enforcement in the
valley or healthcare in thevalley, or uh whatever the case
may be.
And that and it's it'sparticipant run, it's really a
powerful program.
(28:35):
You have 40 or 50 people you gothrough with, you make lifelong
friends.
I go skiing every year with 11other guys, and we've gone every
year since 99, and almost allthose guys run my leadership
voice class.
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
But so it's designed because I I don't think enough
people know about leadershipvoice.
So leadership voice is designedfor young professionals wanting
to learn more about how to getinto the it's a wonderful way to
and most of the leadingcorporations in town send their
future leaders.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
Like this is a chance for them to learn about
their community.
And what happens is those peoplebecome engaged and then they end
up, you know, serving on boardsfor the health systems and and
the nonprofits, that type ofthing.
So so that's an amazing program.
But that started in Boise,Idaho, I think like Skip
Oppenheimer was like in thefirst class, right?
Well, now every chamber in thenation has that program.
(29:21):
They copied it from Boise,Idaho.
We this is I don't know what itis, and it this is my personal
philosophy is that you look atthe West, and every western
state, with I'd say theexception of Montana, has one
major MSA and then somesecondary M secondary markets,
you know, Seattle, Salt Lake,Denver, Boise.
(29:42):
Montana just has all thesehundred fifty to 150,000 uh
person markets.
But so and Boise is the mostgeographically isolated MSA in
the lower 48.
And so nobody, there was thisfeeling always that nobody is
going to do it for us.
We have to do it for ourselves.
Right, we're out in the middleof this desert by ourselves,
this high mountain desert.
(30:03):
And you look at places likeSpokane and some of the
challenges they're ham havingwith homelessness and crime and
substance abuse and and othercommunities like up and down
I-5.
I think in a lot of cases theylooked to the big city, like
look to Seattle or look to salt,like help us with this.
We didn't look to anybody, wejust did ourselves.
And that's always been the Idahoway, that's always been the
(30:24):
Boise way, and we have tocontinue that and not lose it.
And you can't, like you justsaid, sit back and watch others
do it.
If you're not actively involvedin your community, whether
you're teaching Sunday school,coaching soccer, serving on a
nonprofit board, whatever, youare not giving back to your
community.
You have to do that if you'renot going to be able to do that,
Mike.
SPEAKER_02 (30:40):
I think that's just awesome.
So chamber involvement inchambers is a big deal.
And the the programs are rich,they're really good for
especially for scaling anorganization, yeah, to get your
folks involved.
So that's great.
You you hit on the second one.
Um, I get asked all the time,what should I be doing?
I said, one, be part of achamber and get involved.
Second is a nonprofit board.
(31:01):
What there's not a morewonderful way for an aspiring
young professional that wants tomake a difference in a community
to just go volunteer on a board.
SPEAKER_00 (31:08):
I mean, our boys and girls club, we have like the
best boys and girls club in thecountry, right?
Crime, what does they say?
Crime drops one-third uh in acommunity when you had a boys
and girls club, but they needvolunteer leaders there, you
know, um, and uh boards ofsports, you know, soccer, rush,
whatever the case may be.
Um, you know, the ShakespeareFestival.
There's just so many, andthey're they're dying for people
(31:30):
to serve on these boards orserve on committees.
Angela Taylor, have you hadAngela on yet?
I haven't.
But we're trying.
SPEAKER_02 (31:35):
She's kind of like she's like the Mike Ballantyne
of my former women's MBA W.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
She is like, yeah, I mean, she's she was captain of
the Stanford women's basketballteam when they won the national
title and worked in the WBAT.
She's amazing.
Um but she's got her the TaylorLead Foundation that her father
and mother started, that she'staking statewide, helping young
women uh go to college who areathletes.
Her I win initiative, I mean,she's somebody, she is exactly
(32:01):
what we're talking about.
Someone who said, I I see aneed, I'm gonna help fill that
need, you know.
So And you're one of thosepeople, Tommy.
I mean, you've done tons ofthings.
SPEAKER_02 (32:09):
So if you if you think about commun so chambers,
community boards, and then civicengagement.
I do think I you look around ourvalley, um, what I like, we are
to live in a partisan worldwhere people want to rip each
other's throats out.
Yeah I mean it's I I'm surethere's been times in American
history where it's been thisbad, but I haven't delivered
anymore.
(32:30):
Yeah, probably the 1870s.
But um but I think we live in aa very, very blue Boise, right?
And then in a very, very redstate.
Yeah, oh yeah.
And and and I think as you marchacross the valley between Boise,
Garden City, Meridian, it getsredder, yeah.
Yeah, it gets redder as you getout, as you then you then you
get out to Caldwell.
But I will say um across thepolitical spectrum in and civic
(32:54):
leadership, I am so proud of allthose mayors.
I mean, I think they're doingsuch a great job in city
councils that are in tune withwhat's going on.
We're really lucky.
SPEAKER_00 (33:02):
Yeah, I mean, you and I had dinner with Senator
Rish.
Yeah.
And you know, sitting next toSenator Rish was Mayor McLean,
who's probably the mostprominent Democrat in the state
of Idaho right now, right?
And uh you had the mayor, uh umMayor Simmonson from Meridian
and Mayor Kling from Nampa, andthey're having robust, healthy
discussion about how to solvethe city.
SPEAKER_02 (33:26):
Yeah, it's funny to sit and listen to them argue
who's the fastest growing.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:30):
They're debating statistics of like Aaron McLean.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
We're all said that you and I were peacocking, and I
was like, well, what about youguys talking about whose city is
better?
I mean, come on.
So but that's it.
It's civ it's civil discourse,civic engagement, right?
It's going to city company.
SPEAKER_02 (33:45):
And if you think about it, I think it what I like
about politics at a local levelis um it doesn't get partisan
too often.
I mean, you're take tacklinghuge issues together in things
that matter, right?
Whether it be education orinfrastructure or homelessness
or transportation.
Yeah.
Um they're just issues that hithome.
It seems like it's where peoplestill can get to come together
(34:08):
and say, okay, how do we solvethis problem?
SPEAKER_00 (34:09):
I mean, I feel like we have great agreement on this
local level.
Even wherever you are on thespectrum, our challenge is a
little bit more on national,even on the state level, we
struggle a little bit.
SPEAKER_03 (34:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:19):
Um so I guess the optimism that we're talking
about is as many challenges weface, and we rattled those off
in a hurry.
You look equally, there aregreat people here.
I'm I'm betting.
I mean, I'm I'm not it's gonnabe we're gonna have challenges
for sure, but I think we've gota civic community, we've got a
nonprofit community, and abusiness community that is
(34:41):
really aligned on trying tosolve problems.
I and I just I'm betting on us.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Yeah, I am too.
I mean, I I we're in arenaissance.
That's the best way to say it.
I mean, this is a voiceyrenaissance, and it's I don't
see it ending anytime soon.
The only way it would end is ifwe lock the door and don't let
anybody else in.
You know, if we if we get sonegative.
SPEAKER_02 (35:01):
I've never I've never asked your take on
housing.
SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
Um what what what's your take on just housing prices
and uh we could go from one ofthe ten most affordable
communities in the in the UnitedStates to one of the ten least
affordable in 20 years?
SPEAKER_02 (35:15):
Yeah.
What what what is like if MikeBallantyne were king for a day
and could come in and say, hey,here's the policies, here's what
I would do at a state, locallevel to try to improve the cost
of housing, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00 (35:28):
Well, I mean, I think there's a few things.
One is that um communities allcommunity leaders all say we
want affordable housing, butthen when you talk about what
affordable housing looks like,they don't want that, right?
Yeah.
It it is very bare bones andbasic sometimes.
And um and cities get concernedabout that.
They don't want to create slums,and I get that.
So um so some of it is citiessaying, okay, we're it's
(35:51):
important to have affordablehousing here, and it doesn't
need to have X much open spaceand and X this and that and
those other things that we'rewe're really trying to create
that.
Um our our housing stock, we'veseen a ton of multifamily built
in the last few years, and andpeople have been a little bit
negative about that, and we'vehad some even some mayors say no
(36:12):
more apartments in my town.
Well, we historically have abouteight percent of our housing
stock in apartments andmultifamily in a typical healthy
market, is about 20%.
You have to have that type ofproduct.
What we're not seeing builteither is townhomes and condos
and that type of stuff, and youhave to have that type of
product because not everybodycan afford an 8,000 foot lot
with a 1,500-foot home on it.
(36:33):
Some people need a 900-squarefoot condo to start, right?
You know?
So so we've got to we've got tofigure that out.
Um and uh and cities sometimesdon't want that.
They this is too dense, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
You need more of everything.
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
Yeah, you need more of everything.
And you know, and part of ourchallenge has just been honestly
just material prices.
Things are expensive.
I mean, you know, inflation hasbeen pretty rampant, and we went
through COVID and then theinflation after COVID.
And um so that really getssolved, I think, through
innovation and technology, youknow, finding new ways or
cheaper ways to build, whetherit be Audovol and their modular
(37:10):
construction.
SPEAKER_02 (37:11):
Getting closer to where that makes sense here.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
I remember I remember they talked about that.
Uh um the guys at uh Trust Joycetalked about that in the 70s.
They bought 40 acres of meridianto build a uh plant to where
they could build modular housingto ship to Alaska during the oil
boom.
SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
When you go back, I think it was probably seven or
eight years ago with Kayla Rookwhen I was talking to him about
hey, well, why don't you do useany of this here?
And he's like, oh no, we're noteven close.
We have to go to Californiawhere it's ridiculous, right?
Right.
Well, we're getting close tothat.
We think it's ridiculous.
We're getting close now.
I mean, he what a great guy heis.
Oh my gosh.
That guy's he's the best.
Yeah.
Um of the things that maybe youcan speak to a little bit, it it
(37:49):
is harder to do anything rightnow.
SPEAKER_03 (37:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
Getting harder all the time.
So so in the middle, the onecomplaint, if it's a complaint
that I would have, is is webelieve supply and demand until
we don't.
And you can hear people that areyour elected officials talk
about, hey, we're our number oneissue is housing price.
We want to keep our kids here,we want to make it affordable.
Great.
They control the number.
(38:13):
Yeah, they don't control thecost of a two by four for sure,
but man, they make it hard.
It is brutally hard to get away.
SPEAKER_00 (38:21):
Well, look at ACHD's proposed ordinance where to
double the impact fees, right?
You're gonna have cheaperhousing if your impact fee that
you pay when you go pull abuilding permit is twice what it
was uh last year.
SPEAKER_02 (38:32):
And the process is just mind-numbing.
Oh, yeah.
To get through.
I mean, uh Steve Martinez wason, and we were talking about
just you know 20 years of homebuilding on his part and what it
was like to go do a littleduplex.
You know, because they also saybut they want infill, they want
infill, they want infill.
Well, go try to go do a duplexin Meridian right now.
Yeah.
Good luck.
Yeah.
I mean, they've made itimpossible.
(38:53):
Almost impossible.
SPEAKER_00 (38:55):
That's what that was my point.
SPEAKER_02 (38:56):
Yeah, they don't want it.
So I I I do think uh the housingthing, um that's in that's in a
lot of our local leaders'control to try to free that up.
I love what Spencer Cox is doingdown in uh Utah.
He he's he's one of his breakingdown the barriers.
Breaking down the barriers, andhe's like, our goal is to have
you know, it's 50,000 newstarter home new starts.
He's doing everything he can tojust streamline stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (39:16):
Well he does a lot of stuff like that.
He's got the whole disagreebetter uh program, right, with
the governor of Colorado.
And he he is uh he's a thoughtleader.
SPEAKER_02 (39:24):
I'm his fanboy, man.
I'm he's just I'm always textinghim saying, Man, I just love
what you just said.
Yeah, he's he's a really goodguy.
Hey, um man, I I knew this wouldhappen, Michael.
I wait, I wait, what, two yearsto get you on and then an hour
goes by so quick.
Oh yeah.
Oh well, wait two more years,yes.
Say in two years.
Can you talk about uh cycles incommercial real estate?
(39:46):
Because a lot, I mean, that'swhat we do together is
commercial real estate.
Think about like retail's dead,right?
Retail's dead, there's not gonnabe retail, office was boom, and
now office is I mean, office isdead, no one even wants to say
the word.
You got industrial, hotter thananything.
Right.
Talk about how you just have tosit back and be a little bit
patient as these things.
SPEAKER_00 (40:06):
Yeah, exactly.
You have to have a long-term uhview.
What did Mark Twain said?
Uh rumors of my demise have beengreatly exaggerated, right?
You know, everybody thoughtoffice was dead.
I literally have a client rightnow who I've worked with for
about six months, and when Istarted, they were three days in
the week.
Three days of the week, theiremployees had to be in office.
And then they went three days aweek in the office, and you got
(40:26):
to swipe your badges so we knowyou're really in the office.
Then it was four days and theyjust announced five days a week.
Because companies are realizingculture, efficiency, training,
all those things are better whenthe people are in the office.
So, so office, you're watchingoffice market tick away, get
tighter.
You know, we still have somecorrections that are happening,
(40:47):
or we've got some companies thathave too much space that they're
giving back and stuff like that.
But you know, our developershave shown restraint in this
market, and you know, most ofthe new office product is
actually old product that's comeback on the market with the
exception of some really coolbuildings along the freeway.
Um but uh but so uh you know,our office market is healthy,
(41:07):
our industrial market.
We had nothing.
SPEAKER_02 (41:10):
Talk about talk about industrial just because
we'll start dabbling in thatreally quick.
So I'm gonna get some freeadvice right now.
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
Yeah, it was 30 to 60,000 feet, it was a big
building back in the day, andyou know, our vacancy, our
market was controlled by onedeveloper, and our vacancy was
low.
And you know, you got a buildingout there near the airport
that's 900,000 square feet, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (41:29):
And Ron Van Auker was my neighbor for a lot of I'm
sure he was cussing about howstupid all these other guys are.
SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
But actually, that's a really key point in
development.
But one of the things that Clarkuh at BVEP really focused on is
how do we create a robustdeveloper community?
So when someone says, I want tocome to this market, there's
actually someone who can deliverquickly.
You're one of those people.
And so we have a really healthydevelop development community.
But you know, our our industrialmarkets are eight, nine percent
(41:59):
vacant, but and that's all stuffover fifty or 150,000 feet.
You get below 50,000 feet,there's no space.
Yeah, it's less than it's sub-3%vacant.
So so we'll work through it.
We absorb a million to a millionand a half square feet of
industrial year.
We'll continue to chip weightthe rock pile.
SPEAKER_02 (42:15):
We just built micron suppliers, just that alone,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
Yeah, I mean a year ago only 5% of our deals were
micron suppliers, right?
Now they're in on the industrialside, now it's about 20%.
So, you know, that's gonnacontinue to grow.
But we just got a littleaggressive and overbuilt, and
but that um that product isgetting absorbed.
And then retail, everybody saidwith retail, with Amazon, that
no one's gonna do retail.
And it has changed somewhat.
(42:38):
Retail now either has to be aservice that is Amazon proof.
You can't get your hair cut onAmazon, right?
So a salon, some of those typeof things, or it has to be an
experience, whether it be diningexperience.
That's why the village is sosuccessful, that's why hopefully
your project at 10 mile will beso successful, is that you have
to create an experience.
Why would I shop when I can justget it tomorrow from Amazon?
(43:00):
Well, because the experience isamazing.
And so that's why these oldmalls are getting demolished
because it wasn't an experience.
SPEAKER_02 (43:08):
What's gonna happen with our mall?
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
I think it'll change.
I mean, it's still a greatlocation.
Yeah, I think it'll change.
There'll probably be more mixeduse.
I bet you'll see more housing.
I heard the Apple storesleaving.
I don't know about that.
I love Apple products.
I don't know about that.
I mean, the challenge isdemographically the valley has
shifted too.
So the mall used to be the verycenter of the valley, and then
it was Fairview and Eagle, andnow it's literally 10 mile is
(43:31):
the very center of the valley.
And with Highway 16, you'regonna see more growth to the
west, and that'll probably shiftto 16 and 84.
So as the valley, we can't growto the east a little bit,
Mayfield Springs, right?
But you can't really grow toomuch to the east or the
southeast because of theairport.
So you're going to see acontinued shift.
And a lot of folks still viewBoise as a one-store market and
(43:52):
they want to be right in themiddle of the market, right?
And so that that's hard on themall.
SPEAKER_02 (43:56):
Um And then we we hit multifamily.
Um you guys uh you guys do somereporting on that.
Uh it stopped, right?
I mean, there's no new starts.
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
Well, what's interesting is so you know, uh
we overbuilt that product too.
We overbuilt industrial, weoverbuilt multifamily, but that
product is getting absorbedpretty well.
The uh incentives fromdevelopers or owners are down
20%.
Um vacancy, I think, right now,is 94%.
So it's pretty healthy.
Um what we're seeing a lot isactivity from multifamily
(44:30):
developers looking for sitesbecause by the time they get the
site entitled and built, it'sgoing to be 27, 28.
Then we're out of it.
And we're we're at we're throughthat.
Given current absorption cycles,um, you want to be coming out of
the ground in night in 2027 or2028.
So it's it's just a little bitof an oversupply.
Hey, um, because we're down toit.
Um, well, let me just say onemore thing.
(44:50):
It does help affordability whenwe have too much product, supply
and demand, right?
So uh owners are given free mefree rent or rent concessions.
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
Yeah, uh sometimes I sit and listen to parks and I'm
like, just look at your currentmarket, that's how it works.
So that's why we need moreduplexes.
We need more condos, we needmore starter homes.
We it it just, you know, becauselook at even the rental market,
the pressure eased off as soonas we had supply.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (45:15):
We went through that period post-COVID 2021 to now
where you know things wereridiculous.
I mean, 2021 was stupid.
Yeah right.
And because we had basicallyabout 18 to 20 months of pent-up
growth when nothing had happenedand that all popped in 2021,
that we don't want that, right?
What we want is what we'reseeing today, which is healthy,
balanced, steady growth, right?
SPEAKER_02 (45:36):
Hey, uh what what uh how old are you?
SPEAKER_00 (45:41):
I was told there'd be no personal questions.
I'm 58.
SPEAKER_02 (45:44):
So we're the same, what are the same things?
SPEAKER_00 (45:46):
I knew that.
I thought you knew that.
SPEAKER_02 (45:47):
I thought I thought I did.
I you just look younger.
Uh no, so 58.
Um what what lessons do yougive?
I know you mentor a lot ofpeople.
What are your kind of kids thatcome into you and say, hey,
Mike, I want to I want a careerlike yours.
What are what are the few thingsyou would tell anyone that came
in?
SPEAKER_00 (46:03):
Well, uh a couple things.
One is education, right?
There are some greatopportunities like in commercial
real estate, go get your CCIM,your SIR, continue your
education.
When you stop learning, youstart dying, right?
So continue to learn, whether itbe uh situational learning where
you can go listen to a speaker,go to kerosene, you know,
whatever the case may be, gosomething like that and learn.
(46:23):
I think that's really, reallyimportant.
Read.
You know, I try to read everyday.
Uh take some time for yourself,it's also good for your soul.
And then get involved again, getinvolved with the community,
right?
People do business with peoplethey know and trust, right?
And if you're sitting next tosomebody on a nonprofit board or
on a task force and you get toknow them, you're more likely to
(46:43):
use them as your doctor or asyour commercial real estate
broker or as your propertymanager or as your developer,
right?
Dude, that is rich.
SPEAKER_02 (46:50):
That's gonna be a clip right there.
I don't know about that.
That's gonna be a clip that'sshared right there.
That that's I mean, I couldn'tagree anymore.
I mean, well, you love it too.
And but if you just I mean,that's a really concise way of
saying, hey, here's and andthey're pretty easy steps,
right?
I mean, it's it's not notsetting artificial it's it's so
strange to me that um where I'vereally seen it is I I'm able to
help with mission 43 a lot.
(47:11):
Yep, great organization.
But you have these guys come outof the military that are studs.
Right, right.
And they get out in the and andand and they're like, oh man,
and I think when they hear fromthe business community, like we
never stop learning.
We always, it's and they'relike, oh, I can kind of just
merge into this community ofbusiness leaders where
everyone's all it's not like youever arrive.
SPEAKER_00 (47:31):
You know, that's another thing I found at Boise
that's different.
And I I've seen it when I was upand spoke hand that's really
different.
People come, you know, you get aphone call and say, Hey, Tommy
Alquist said I should go havecoffee with you.
You're one of the people Ishould know on Boise, and you go
have coffee with them, andthey're great, and then you say,
Hey, you know, you should knowthis guy.
It uh there's a great bookcalled The Go Giver.
Yeah, it's that concept.
That is Boise to a T.
(47:51):
It is.
That is not every community thatwe are in.
Uh we go to some othercommunities and they are like,
you know, what do you want fromme?
And they are really closed.
And that's part of what makesBoise, I think, so successful.
But I don't know about you.
I love the the nonprofit side,the community side.
I get more, you know, serving onSt.
Alphonse's board was uh duringCOVID, I was the chair of
(48:14):
SARMAC.
Uh and post-COVID, I was chairof the health system.
I mean, that was more rewardingto me sometimes than than than
work itself, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (48:22):
You know, and that the this eternal principle that
like you go to serve others andyou get down, whether that's a a
day of service, a week ofservice, or five years on a
board, I mean, you go to serveand you you look back at what
did I give, and what you get isexponentially more than what
you're so much more.
And that that that loop neverends, right?
I try to help you and you giveme more back.
(48:43):
Yeah, and and and you get back,it it builds a pretty rich life.
Yeah.
Oh, I think that's right.
I mean, when you sit back andlook at hey, of my my service,
my time given to St.
Als, the board you're on, youyou'll say, I got way back more
than I ever served.
So so that's a I mean, thateternal, like, and it brings
happiness.
SPEAKER_00 (49:00):
Yeah, when I when I'm 90 years old, I'm not gonna
remember how many Costco's Idid, but I'll remember my time
with St.
Als or the Salvation Army or orBVEP or other organizations for
sure.
SPEAKER_02 (49:10):
Man, I love you, man.
You're a great friend.
Thank you so much for coming onand all you do in the community.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
You're a great, great example toso many.
Thank you.
Thanks.
All right, thanks, everybody.
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