August 11, 2025 • 56 mins
What does it take to build a thriving business while making a lasting impact on your community? Jess Flynn’s journey from reluctant Idaho transplant to respected PR agency CEO is a masterclass in authentic leadership.
As Founder and CEO of Red Sky, a Boise-based PR and marketing agency, Jess brings 25 years of journalism and PR expertise to a diverse portfolio of clients. She leads the agency’s reputation management and executive training programs, advising private- and public-sector leaders through high-stakes communications and crisis response. An Emmy Award-winning former broadcast journalist, she began her career after graduating from the University of Texas and eventually returned to Idaho to launch Red Sky in the middle of the 2008 recession.
Under her leadership, Red Sky has been named the Boise Chamber’s 2025 Small Business of the Year (under 10 employees) and built a team known for long-term loyalty, with staff tenures ranging from four to fifteen years. Jess credits this culture to surrounding herself with people who challenge her perspective—one of her guiding principles as a leader.
Her influence extends beyond business. She has served as a federal appointee to the National Women’s Business Council, led its Rural Subcommittee, and acted as an Honorary Commander of the Idaho Air National Guard. She currently serves as a Director of First Federal Bank and is President-Elect of the Women’s and Children’s Alliance.
In this episode, Jess reflects on the evolving media landscape, the growing need for trusted communications, and the double-edged sword of artificial intelligence in the industry. She shares her strategies for balancing business growth with authentic connection, creating cultures where people stay, and focusing energy on what truly matters.
Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned executive, or simply someone passionate about strengthening communities, Jess’s story offers practical strategies and an inspiring vision for leading with trust in today’s divided world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today on the EverWild and Word podcast, we have Jess
Flynn.
She's the founder and CEO ofRed Sky.
Jess is everything to everyoneand I'm so happy to get her on
today.
She's been the CEO of the PRand marketing agency Red Sky for
years.
She has 25 years of journalismand PR expertise.
She's an Emmy Award-winningbroadcast journalist.
(00:22):
But, most importantly, jess isa community leader, one of the
pillars of the Treasure Valleycommunity.
She is involved in everythingthat has to do with our
community and making it better.
I'm really excited to have heron today and just hear words of
wisdom and advice from her andlearn more.
You will love this podcast.
Prior to Jess Flynn, I'll havean Alquist update with my
(00:47):
partner Holt Haga hey Holt thisweek for our update.
What I wanted to talk a littlebit about is just how important
relationships are the guys atD&B have been.
Just you know, we become greatpartners with them on a lot of
projects.
So they came to us and wantedto go to Homedale.
Yeah, now I know a guy like you.
You live downtown boise.
(01:07):
You go past 16th street just tocome to work.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You didn't know where homedale was yeah, I didn't
know, I didn't.
Well, if it doesn't have a golfcourse, don't qualify.
It doesn't have a golf, thereason, I know so much about
homedale.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Is the the shooting place place is right?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
oh yeah, we went out.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, so you drove by there, up through there, you
drove through that yeah anyway,they came to us and we ended up,
uh, doing working with johnjackson, jackson's uh legacy,
that's that's where, that'swhere his father had his first
gas station, yeah.
And so they wanted to do a newgas station out there, dmb
wanted to do a new store outthere, and then we all of a
sudden had, you know, I turn itover to you and I'm like hey
(01:43):
what the hell we can do with therest of the site out here.
Really yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, and it, it, it worked out, I think, within gosh
.
I think it was probably withintwo, two months, three months,
we had the rest of the sitelocked down with letters of
intent that we ultimately signedand and we're moving forward
with groups and they're greatgroups- Can you talk about the
groups or no?
Yeah, so O'Reilly has got a.
(02:11):
They took down about an acrethere.
Mcdonald's will be on the hardcorner.
Iccu will have a branch outthere.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I mean, what a great.
I mean you think of Jackson'sand those new tenants and then a
DMV out there, yeah it's agreat little project.
It's a great project.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's a great project, can I tell?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
you a funny story.
I haven't told you this story,I just thought of it.
So I was up at.
It was strange because I was upat an event in Coeur d'Alene at
a hangar and I'm up there andit was about.
It was a thing with Governorand it was a cool event to go to
, but it had nothing to do withHomedale or what I'm going to
talk about.
And I had a lady kind of chaseme down and she's like hey, I
(02:50):
need to talk to you, you arechanging my child's life.
And I'm like, hmm, I'm up inCoeur d'Alene and I'm trying to
like you know.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You're just like, where is?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
this going to go?
And when is this going to go?
You're just like, where is thisgoing to go?
And she says I live in Holmdel.
And do you know how excited mykids are?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
that they can go to McDonald's and get a Happy Meal.
It puts things in perspective,right Hold?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
on Dang, you're welcome.
You're welcome, I am not sure,from a nutritional, like macro
like, just like brain health orwhatever that french fries and
chicken nuggets are the barriersto entry.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
For Now it's an everyday thing instead of every
three days.
But no, she's like think aboutit.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
They've never had anything like that close by yeah
.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
And anyway, it was a funny story.
I just started laughing so hard.
You changed my life.
You're probably thinking backwith your ER days.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You saved my life literally.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It was chicken nuggets.
Now it's chicken nuggets.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And I gave credit.
I'm like, hey, I got a teamthat figured all this out,
anyway.
But at Home, dell, we're goingto have our groundbreaking of
the week in this podcast.
Yeah, what a great community.
I do need to say like, sincewe've been out there, like the,
the city, the mayor, the people,the and this is no surprise you
get a little bit into ruralidaho.
It is the heart and soul of ourstate.
It's the most wonderful folksyou've ever been around, and and
(04:16):
this project is going to bebeautiful.
We're starting construction.
All of it goes in at the sametime and and it's, uh, it's
already under construction we'restarting site.
Work out there already.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, I went from never going to Homedale once in
the last 10 years to like 10times in the last couple months.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And it's great to spend time out there and there's
growth out there.
It's beautiful People in theTraverse Valley?
Maybe not.
Well, first of all it'sbeautiful, but we're sprawling
out that way unintentionally.
But a lot of people you knowyou can still go out there and
get some acreage and a lot goingon.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, you're right on the river.
It's beautiful, it is, andagain back.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Shout out to DMV.
That community will change whenyou have someone like DMV.
Come in and and and make, makesomething like this happen.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So yeah, it's going to be.
It's another great project.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks everybody.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Jess, thank you for coming on.
This is like I'm excited I amexcited as well.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I'm sure this conversation is going to go in a
lot of interesting directions.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
They always do.
They always do.
Thank you so much.
You're an incredible person.
I was talking to someone aboutyou the other day and, anyway,
you're kind of a communitypillar and you're everywhere and
have developed into the go-tofor all things that matter for
(05:43):
Boise.
So the Treasure Valley, howdoes it feel?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I feel like I'm blushing.
We can probably see that onscreen.
I always tell people to figureout how to graciously accept
compliments.
So thank you for that andrecognizing that, because it's
important to me as a businessowner and a leader to figure out
what my role is in thecommunity and where I can
connect people, and so if thatis what the perception is out
(06:12):
there, then I'm doing my job andbeing successful.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I would say back to you you're so authentic and
genuinely about our communityand our people and this place.
That probably is where it comesfrom, at least when I mean,
that would be the first wordthat would come out of my mouth.
Has that always been naturalfor you?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
No, no, I would say, and this goes back to while I
have now lived in Boise in Idaho, more than anywhere else,
longer than anywhere else.
I am not an Idaho native.
I know that you talk about thisa lot with your guests, but I
was first dragged here kickingand screaming as a teenager for
my senior year of high schoolfrom New York and then, after
(06:55):
the start of my professionalcareer, I chose to come back and
I chose to stay, and then Ieventually became an
entrepreneur and I think it wastruly about halfway through this
entrepreneurial journey where Irealized, okay, we don't truly
exist in silos and forbusinesses and our employees to
be successful, we have to figureout where our impact and
(07:18):
connectivity is and how we canbring together people and ideas
around, whether that's sharedgoals or shared values.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Isn't it interesting, though, like doing the right,
authentic thing, like if yougave a class, like, let's say,
you went and taught at BoiseState today, yeah, and you were
with a room full of 50 inspiringentrepreneurs, and it was some
business class, and you weresaying what's the most important
thing for you to develop asuccessful or in some business
(07:46):
class, and you were sayingwhat's the most important thing
for you to develop a successful,profitable business?
It probably would be if youcould authentically connect to
your heart and what you want andthe people, and serve and do
things.
It's not going to be immediate,but for your brand, for who you
are, for what you do, you'lllook back and go.
Well, it was what I liked doing, because I wanted to do it
anyway, and it became.
(08:06):
It's just interesting how thatgoes right.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, yeah, and it's this word authenticity, and how
we live an authentic life.
I feel that has probably beenone of the biggest journeys I've
been on in how much of myselfdo I show, whether it's to
clients or to community, because, on one hand, you want to
portray this confidence andconviction in what you're doing,
(08:30):
but the authentic reality is asa small business owner, as
somebody that cares about thisplace.
There are things that concernme.
There are definitely thingsthat give me anxiety and keep me
up at night, and it's thatbalance of how much do you
transparently and authenticallyshare and how much do you.
So it's that how much do youcheerlead or how much are you a
(08:51):
hard truth teller?
And I think for I speak a lotto people that are starting out
in businesses or thinking aboutpartnerships or anything and I'm
like there's a couple of thingsyou really need to do.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Do you enjoy the mentorship part of your life?
I do.
I do Because I know you do alot of it.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I do have a lot of conversations.
It's kind of what fills my cup,that kind of spontaneous
conversation of hey, here's whatI did and here's the places
that I could have done better,here's what I've learned along
the way, and you take thoselearnings of mine and see how it
applies to your life.
And one of the things I tellpeople and I think this is for
any business at any size isconstantly communicating and
(09:31):
thinking about what your idea ofsuccess is.
Because I feel like everysingle business owner will say
of course I want my business tobe successful, but what success
means to me versus what it meansto you?
But what success means to meversus what it means to you?
You know, I've been in businesswith folks and success to them
was providing financially fortheir family and for their
retirement.
Success to me has always beenabout creating a place where
(10:02):
people can satisfy theirambitions and do great work and
have an impact on community.
But that may not always mean acertain profitability, right?
So if you define and constantlylook at what does it mean to be
successful?
Impact on community, but thatmay not always mean a certain
profitability, right?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So it's if you define and constantly look at what
does it mean to be successful?
It's that interesting, butprofitability is there right, so
you have to balance, as, like aCEO, and we'll get, we'll talk
a little about your business,but that's the, isn't that?
What makes it great, though, isyou have to figure out hey, I
have to.
I have to be good at everything.
(10:29):
I have to be good at branding,I have to be good at marketing
myself, I have to be good atwalking that line of being
community involved, but not overthe top, because I I serve
everyone, and and I have to beprofitable, and I have to be
inspiring, and I have to mentor,and I have to make people that
work for me attracted to workhere and recruit and retain them
, and it's that'sentrepreneurship.
It is, and it's tiring.
(10:49):
You have to love it right.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
You have to love it.
You have, you have to, you haveto love it, and you also have
to recognize where you can setup boundaries and say no because
if you aren't energized andpulling energy from things, then
you can't give to other people.
How do you do?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
that I'm not good at it.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
We should have a club .
Speaker 1 (11:14):
What ends up happening with me and I watch it
happen, like last night.
I got home late and I was justdragging ass, I mean it just was
like.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
And, unfortunately for me, it's usually my family
or whoever it's my people thatare closest to me.
It's the end of the day, andthen it's ultimately when I get
home where it's just empty.
How do you keep it up?
And just so that you have whatyou need to deliver to everyone
in your life.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, I have worked hard to get better at
disconnecting at certain points.
In some ways, ourhyperconnected society and being
able to work from anywhere elseis so wonderful, but it's also
so terrible because there is noturning something off.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And in my business.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
We are there for clients at their time of need,
which means I answer the call nomatter when it rings.
For clients at their time ofneed, which means I answer the
call no matter when it rings.
But there are things thatenergize me and help my brain do
different things, and that's alot of hands-on activities.
I did a presentation.
Remember when we had IgniteBoise back in the day.
(12:19):
One of it was why I think everybusiness owner should make
sausage, because I grind meatand make sausage and do things
physically.
I am a sporadic crafter and badartist, so I will cross stitch
inappropriate cross stitchthings with curse words I may
have to get you one, tommy.
So I try to do things that areaway from technology, that
(12:43):
connect my creative side with myhands.
That's so important.
I also try to do things thatmake me uncomfortable, that I
don't know a lot about.
I was in Twin Falls yesterdaybecause I serve on a community
bank board and while monthly,going to Twin for this very
(13:03):
important role takes time out ofmy business, it also frees my
brain from what I'm typicallythinking about, to think about
things in a very different wayfrom a financial system way.
So, diversity, the diversity ofexperiences.
For sure, I imagine we'll saythe D word a lot, because I am a
huge believer in get outsideyour bubble, do things that are
(13:27):
different, surround yourselfwith artists and creatives and
people that view the worlddifferently.
That is energizing to me.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Uh, I'm going to go back Tell me about your move
from New York here, kicking andstring, screaming, yeah, yeah.
Was it a relocation for your,your folks, what, what, what.
What was the reason to come toBoise, idaho?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, so I was born and raised in a town called
Poughkeepsie, new York, in the.
Hudson River Valley, just aboutan hour and a half north of New
York City.
I'm of Irish and Italian roots,out of Queens, and two of my
step-parents and my dad allworked for IBM.
So I lived in a true companytown which I don't think there's
(14:06):
many that exist nowadays when Iwas growing up, where they had
their own country club for IBM.
Like everything we did was tiedto that company did their first
layoffs in the early 90s.
My stepfather at the time choseto take the buyout and look for
a new job, and he found and wasrecruited to a job running an
(14:31):
engineering line at a companyhere in Boise, idaho, and this
was the summer before my senioryear of high school.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Wow, what a tough time to tell your kid they were
moving to Idaho.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I was not a happy kid .
I didn't know anything aboutIdaho, admittedly, couldn't even
find it on a map Right, and somoved here and it was probably
the best thing for me.
There's an author that I love,brene Brown, and I believe she's
the first one that said youknow, don't clear the path for
(15:04):
your kids.
Prepare your kids for the path.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
How do you think about building resilience in
kids?
And, as much as I was probablya complete brat to my parents at
the time, it taught me kind ofthis resilience and starting
over.
And how do you connect withpeople that you have nothing in
common with?
And Boise and Boise High was agreat place for a transplant to
go.
It was really interesting.
(15:30):
I still have some longtimefriends, just had our 30th high
school reunion and there arestill people that I connect with
.
But I was here a year and I waslike I need to get out.
I need to go someplace wherepeople don't look like me.
I need to go far away, to needto go someplace where people
don't look like me.
I need to go far away to a bigschool and a big city.
And so I left Boise.
(15:50):
But there's one thing I forgotabout my move to Boise that I
always think about now.
My mom and I were here ourfirst week and we're walking in
downtown Boise.
These people kept passing us.
I'm like why are they allsmiling at us?
We don't know them.
What do they want from us?
My mom was like they do thathere, they're just friendly.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
They do that here.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I thought it was ridiculous, but I'm now one of
those people that smiles atcomplete strangers on the street
, says hello.
Just lost that edge.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Oh, wow, that's great .
And so then, where'd you go toschool?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Went to.
Oh wow, that's great.
And so then, where'd you go toschool?
Went to the university of texasat austin.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
So I'm a longhorn.
That's great.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I didn't know that yeah, I have strong opinions
about football and you're gonnabe good this year.
Yeah, yeah, I'm hoping.
I'm hoping we'll get to thechampionship.
And yeah, I went there forjournalism my whole life.
I'd been very curious.
I got into journalism in highschool.
Even in elementary school I waswriting and just wanted to,
wanted to know things beforeanybody else and wanted to tell
(16:51):
stories.
And I went there and Ioriginally wanted to be a
foreign correspondent or adocumentary producer and fell
into news producing so theindividuals that are behind the
camera that help put togetherthe newscasts and stuff like
that.
And yeah, started my careerworking in Austin, texas, a
pretty large market, and wasthere for a couple of years and
(17:12):
then got recruited to Pittsburgh.
So I moved to Pittsburgh.
Both places I moved sightunseen because you know that
first pushed me off.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Did you like?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Pittsburgh.
I loved Pittsburgh.
Yeah, it was a great town.
It's interesting it frequentlytops, like Austin, some of these
great kind of innovation andtransformation places, and it is
completely both in the way thatthey've transformed their
downtown but just the waythey've welcomed entrepreneurs
there.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, I had a really good friend there in emergency
medicine, so when I was, anyway,I got snowed in there for like
a week and it was awesome.
It was just awesome.
And before that I mean, if youwould have said Pittsburgh, but
it was, it was really fun.
So how long were you there?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I was there almost exactly two years and then at
the ripe old age, I think I was23 or 24.
I thought I know everythingthere is to know about news.
I should be in management, andthere's times I wish I still had
that confidence and surety ofyouth.
I'm like I can do this.
(18:16):
And so my family had stayed inBoise.
My sister and her husband hadmoved back to Boise to start
their law careers and I thought,well, let's go someplace
comfortable to work inmanagement and then I'll move on
, because in media you movemarkets.
So I came back in 2000.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
And which media company?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I was at Channel 6, so.
Kivi, and I was the executiveproducer there for four years.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Okay, yeah.
So I want to get to what you donow.
So talk me through the birth ofRed Sky.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah.
So instead of moving out ofthis market, I decided, wow, I
really like this place.
Like so many people that comehere either a trailing spouse
for a job, or maybe theygraduate college and they think
I'm going to go somewhere else Ireally wanted to stay and I had
met my longtime partner andhe's a Boise City fireman and
that's a job for life, and hewasn't moving.
(19:09):
So decided, well, how can Imake this work but do something
different?
So storytelling.
So I got into public relationsin 2004.
And I worked for a local agencythe one PR agency in town at
the time Scott Perrin andAssociates, if you remember them
.
And after about two years there, one of our biggest clients
(19:29):
hired me to be doing PR in-houseand that was Tamarack Resort.
Oh, wow.
So worked for Tamarack until atime when some of us were saying
, hey, there needs to be astrategic PR agency in this town
that really looks at PR in thisbroader way and integrates with
advertising and marketing.
But it is a true businessstrategy.
(19:50):
Why don't we start something?
And there was three other folkswho'd been doing PR and
business way longer than I hadand I said that would be
interesting.
And in 2008, if you recall, itwas a challenging time in the
economy and a challenging timein development.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
It's nice to be around someone that remembers
that.
It seems like I've had a lot ofyoung guests I'm like.
Well, there was this thingcalled the Great Recession.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, yeah, oh, I remember it well and in some
ways and you hear all theseanecdotes about like the best
time to start a business.
We wound up, my job essentiallydisappeared at Tamarack.
So while we'd been talkingacademically about starting a PR
agency, we did it in a week tostand up.
Red Sky and I looked back andwe actually incorporated on
(20:34):
February 29th 2008.
I don't know if doing it on aleap day helps at all.
But yeah, so we started andthere were originally four
founders and I am the soleremaining founder and CEO.
So 17 years in business andlots of ups and downs in the
economy since then.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
And have done a tremendous I mean your body of
work.
Is it strange for you when youreflect now, over 17 years, what
kind of emotions and whatthoughts do you have?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
It seems both long and very short.
I look back and I think aboutit.
I mean we've had over 50 folksthat have worked for us
throughout this time.
You know, currently the tenureof folks that are with us are
from four to 15 years, so wehave long term employees.
I'm proud, I will have to say,from a competitive side At one
(21:29):
point, the people that wouldkind of leave and go on to other
things, and sometimescompetitive agencies my
competitive side would get allriled up.
But now I'm like if they gainedthe skills and the confidence
and the desire to start and runtheir own businesses, that is a
credit to what we had at Red Skyand I take great pride in
(21:50):
seeing a lot of formercolleagues who have started
their own successful businessesyes, in comms, but other places,
and so I take a lot of formercolleagues who have started
their own successful businessesyes, in comms, but other places,
and so I take a lot of pride inthat and that.
The other thing that I reallylove is when people come up to
me and say, through thetrainings or through the work
that we've done with you, inspeaking and sharing our story
or in doing interviews, I'vegained this confidence in how I
(22:13):
engage in the world and tell mystory.
So to have that kind of thoseseeds of impact, it's very
rewarding, it is extremelyrewarding.
I love to hear that.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Did you always, and I've been thinking about what to
ask you.
But you're very good atconnecting people.
You're very good at confidenceand relationships.
I've seen you do your thing.
Was it always natural?
Was it kind of like a God-givenhey, this is what I do?
Or have you had to develop that?
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yes, and yes I would say the curiosity factor has
always been there.
I like to say I'm voraciouslycurious.
That's why journalism, itseemed, came as a natural first
career, because that ability toask questions, to listen and ask
even deeper questions hasalways been something that gives
me great satisfaction.
(23:06):
And then, kind of that nextphase that came as Red Sky kind
of grew, probably about fiveyears in, was this realization
that the true value that ourclients saw was when we could
connect businesses, individualsand ideas together to create
something even better, take themoutside of their silo.
And I've often said that it'snot six degrees, it's two
(23:31):
degrees of separation in Boiseand Idaho, even as we grow.
It's the same way, and I thinkthere's such a value in how we
can feel so apart in technologyif people can help connect us.
And so that is, yes, somethingthat we do with our clients, but
also in my personal life.
I love when people that comefrom perhaps disparate
(23:53):
backgrounds can recognize theyhave some sort of common
interest, common ground, commonconversation to have.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
You're good at it.
What is the most importantquality, do you think, in
someone starting a business here, for whatever reason?
I get the privilege and I thinkit is an honor to have people
come in and say, hey, will youmentor me, will you help me?
And I take it seriously.
I often sometimes my assistantwill say what the heck are you
doing?
And I'm like I will always maketime for it.
(24:22):
But.
But I get asked that questionLike what, what if?
As you're starting out, whatare the qualities that you
should either have, naturallyand even and I like how you said
yes and yes.
So you may have them, but yourstrengths can become stronger
and your weaknesses or blindspots can be discovered and then
improved upon.
But what are the qualities youwould suggest to young
(24:44):
entrepreneurs out therelistening that would make a
difference over the long haul intheir careers to have a
successful Red Sky?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, I do think self-awareness in those.
It was interesting we weretalking about on a panel
recently soft skills and AprilArmson from Micron, the chief
people officer, was moderatingthe panel and she's like we
don't call them soft skills, wecall them power skills, and I
love that because I think theremay be technical things that
(25:16):
people feel they must have inorder to run a business.
I have a journalism degree.
I don't have an MBA.
I failed my stats course incollege when I tried to get a
minor in business.
Like that part of running abusiness does not come naturally
to me.
I have to work hard at it.
The parts that I feel sometimesare glossed over are those
(25:37):
power skills of okay, you haveto have self-awareness, you have
to have empathy andunderstanding that phrase it's
not personal, it's business.
That's not true.
Everything is personal Becauseevery decision you make impacts
an individual, not just you, butthe people that may be
partnering or working with you.
I, by my very nature, am aparanoid pragmatist.
(26:02):
I wake up every morning and Ithink about possibly the worst
things that can happen and I tryto prepare for them.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That gives me comfort , I think that's why that's a
hell of a way to live, jess.
Okay, I'm trying to be morepositive.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
But it's pragmatism, it's not pessimism.
It's, you know, like, what arethe challenges that I might face
?
Yeah, but I think that you needto surround yourself with
people that are almost theopposite of you.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So I need, I do.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Right, that's big.
And it can't be.
Yes, people, it may feel niceto have people around you that
think everything you say iswonderful, but you need those
folks that are going to questionand challenge you, whether they
are an advisory board or amentor, somebody that challenges
your thinking and yourdecisions so that your thinking
(26:48):
and decisions are made better byit, even if you stand in your
own convictions.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
That is so.
I'm so glad you're bringingthat up.
I think about and I say this toanyone who asks me but, like
Ryan, cleverley is kind of myright hand but he is opposite in
every way, yin to yang right,half glass empty.
This is why it won't work.
He's the accountant, he's thenumbers guy, he's the, he's the
wait a minute guy.
(27:12):
And I think of of how manytimes that, that tension, if I
didn't have that in my life,what trouble I would have got in
.
And just like the, it's just a.
That's growth.
You want to surround yourselfwith people smarter than you and
that challenge what you do, Imean, and that's not intuitive
to some people.
No, you gotta get, you gottaget secure with that.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, and there were two things.
When I was reflecting back whenwe celebrated our 10th
anniversary, there were a coupleof things that I wrote down,
and one of them was just becauseit's not how I would do, it
doesn't mean it's wrong.
You're growing kind of almostbeyond that startup and
(27:56):
management role and trying to bea leader.
It is that, as you'redelegating to those that you
hire you partner with, isrecognizing and trying to.
We all have ego, but trying totake some of that out and be
like this is perhaps another wayto do it.
It's not how I would do it.
And then walking into everyconversation, even with those
you disagree with, even withthose that may be at a lower
level than you in experience,and appreciating that they know
(28:20):
something I do not.
Every single person knowssomething.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
You- do not Beautifully put.
Beautifully put, I think that'sthe.
I mean, those are the thingsthat you probably mature into.
Yeah, yeah, because when youstart and, frankly, when you get
going and you're starting abusiness and you don't have room
for error, yeah, yeah, becausewhen you start, and and and and,
frankly, when you get going andyou're starting a business and
you don't have room for errorand you want to control
everything because you have to,because it has to succeed Right,
and then, as you, as you age,and you think, hey, I'm going to
(28:46):
have to start trusting, and Ithink it's a process, um, I
think I'm getting better at it.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Um think, I think and hope I am as well.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Sometimes I wonder.
I want to shift topics a littlebit.
If you think of media PR, whatyou're an expert at, and you
think of how much it's changedin your 17 years and how it
continues to just evolve, I meanit's, it's on this, it's on
this rocket ship that who knowswhere it's going.
(29:18):
It's probably.
I mean, this is a.
This is a shameless plug.
I'm going to give you one, butit's probably more important
than ever for companies to havetrusted people out front like
you helping them navigate thisworld, cause it is such a it's,
it's so different, yeah, thatthat trusted advisory role, that
strategic communications role,you helping them navigate this
world, because it is such a it's.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
It's so different, yeah, that that trusted advisory
role, that strategiccommunications role, um, I used
to get so angry when people belike, oh, why would you pay for
that?
I'm like you pay for lawyers,you pay for accountants, you pay
for these outside professionals, yeah, to bolster what you have
in house.
It's the same with comms, mostof the time it's cleaning up the
shit that happens.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
So it's like why wouldn't you pay for it to try
to help?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
on the front.
It's kind of like you're goingto pay for it one way or another
and I think, too, having havingfolks that can kind of keep
their heads up and be lookingforward, because so much of
being in a business you arehandling the day to day in the
weeds.
So since the communicationlandscape has gone through
multiple iterations of likethese earthquake transformations
(30:20):
, starting in 2008 was kind ofthe advent of social media
becoming something thatbusinesses were actually like
wait, is this something that weshould do?
I think back.
I was on Twitter in 2008.
And we had this whole BoiseTwitter community and it was
this fabulous place where youwould connect with folks that
you would have no otherwisereason to ever know and then you
(30:43):
would meet in real life and itwas this very congenial,
interesting place to be.
I do miss that quite a lotbecause it is kind of a
hellscape right now in certainparts of social media it's half
bots and who knows what right.
Yeah, and I would say at thattime there was this fear, like
there is with every technology,that oh my God, we're not going
(31:07):
to need any PR, marketing oradvertising agencies because we
can do it all ourselves.
And I think there was thatbrief bit of fear where
businesses were going to oh God,they're going to just take it
all in-house.
And that's not what happened.
We have this real interest intechnology and how do we use it
and like the pendulum goes oneway and then it settles back
(31:27):
into.
We still need strategy, westill need intentionality, we
still need planning and goalsand thoughts and understanding
of what does thisdemocratization of communication
mean for me, my business, mybrand, like I used to tout it,
was the greatest thing everbecause you could be a
broadcaster, you could be anewspaper publisher, you had
(31:49):
these tools at your disposal.
Now, what we're seeing is thisfragmentation of the media
landscape, as in there is no onesource of news that I turn to
for all my needs.
I do what I call triangulation.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I work very hard to get out.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
You have to right Because otherwise you don't know
what to believe anymore Exactly.
And this crisis of trust whatare the entities that people
turn to trust?
What are the industries, whatare these iconic places and we
think about?
Back in the day, we used tohave great high trust in
(32:29):
government, we used to in mediaand all of these things have you
found?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
your customers coming to you and having you help them
with their communication sothat their own customers trust
them.
Yeah, I mean I know that soundscrazy, but I just had one of
our healthcare CEOs on andwithin healthcare.
I would have never in a millionyears in my life one of the
beautiful things.
There were a lot of alwayschallenging things about being
(32:54):
in an ER and healthcare but younever got questioned, you never
like it would have never come up.
Are you telling me the truth oryour intentions there?
Or is this about billing andI've thought about like just
that?
I mean, healthcare is nottrusted anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
It's not there.
I'm trying to think back to.
Every year Edelman, which isthis global company, puts out
the Edelman trust barometer,where it's looking at and
assessing where trust lies ininstitutions and everything has
fallen off the cliff.
So all institutions, allinstitutions have taken a dip.
At one point it was thatbusinesses are more trusted, as
(33:35):
in business leaders, what theywould say.
Their employees would trustthem more, the consumers would
trust them.
But everything is on thisdownward slide and, yes, our
clients do come to us with.
How are we trying to reachdirectly to people and make sure
they trust what is coming outof our mouths and our
information?
And a lot of times we'regetting to.
(33:56):
How do we establish a onesource of truth location for
everything that you have to say?
How do we make it easy forpeople to understand?
How do we also give them thecredible backup information so
if they are in thattriangulation mode, they know it
is not just your marketingspeak, it is also backed up by
(34:17):
data and information.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
My mind's buzzing as you're saying all this, Because
I'm just thinking through thecomplexities in today's world of
running and I know yourepresent big businesses, medium
, small and probably a littledifferent for each one of them,
but all of them have to tacklewhat you just said.
And now there is kind of thismarketing brand strategy.
(34:40):
That is super important.
That, and then there's also theand how do you create one
source of truth for what you'resaying and how people verify and
and garnish truth in who youare, whether you're a real
estate company or a hospital ora whatever.
It is right.
Yeah, it's more complicatedthan it's ever been.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
More complicated than it's ever been and
unfortunately, I would say thatAI, while I found it.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I can't wait to talk to you about this.
Oh gosh, this is my next thing.
I said it, I brought it in.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
It is more complicated now and it will
increasingly get morecomplicated.
And it's this interestingtension of we have more ways to
reach people than ever beforeYay and oh God, we have more
ways to reach people than everbefore.
And it's really trying to dothe research to understand and
(35:31):
identify who are you trying toreach, what are you trying to
influence them to think or do,and how do you figure out, how
to measure it All right let'sget into it then.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
The role of AI, like so when I just had the
healthcare CEO on.
There's certainly some verypositive things about AI, yes,
how it's going to make us moreefficient.
You know and I walked himthrough an example of just
charting and follow-up andintegration of research and
tools and for patient care, allof those sort of things.
(36:00):
But if you think of thenegatives, I mean I don't even
know where this thing's headingbecause it's happening so
quickly.
Jess, it's frightening how andlisten, as an old guy that's
still trying to figure it out Imean we're using it a lot.
We're using it for contracts,we're using it for press
releases, we're using it forwe're.
We're just starting to use itmore because it's become pretty
(36:24):
dang efficient.
But where's it going?
And and what do we need to beworried about?
And, um, what does the nextthree to five years look like?
Speaker 3 (36:35):
well, I guess the easiest way I can say where we
are right now is everybodystarted playing in the
playground and nobody set up therules for it.
Oh, I like that right.
So everyone's all over andthere's this excitement to it.
And then there's bits andpieces that are coming out.
When we see these horriblethings, like whatever happened
on x the other day with some ofthe content that was going out
(36:56):
from Grok, and we are seeinghallucinations.
And you mentioned a pressrelease I early on put in, you
know, okay, testing it out,write this, and it had a
completely different CEO than meabout.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Red.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Sky.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I'm like, where are you getting that from?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
So we are at a place where there's probably read
really well like I will saythere's some language, but yes,
but it's a good like.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
It's a good point.
Like you're depending on who'sproducing the ai and there's
different sources for that andwhat data it gets it's going to,
in my opinion, I think it'sgoing to erode this whole belief
system even more.
Like, okay, do I believe thisit's going to cause people.
Maybe that's a good thing.
(37:41):
Maybe it's a good thing thatwe're going to need to verify,
but I don't know.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
And that's part of it .
I have appreciated seeing insome of the platforms I use
Claude a lot just because of thestructure of it works better
for our creative industry and Iappreciate when they're sourcing
and sometime I'll double checkon the source.
I'll click over to the sourcingand be like that is the wrong
(38:04):
extrapolation from that.
You positioned this, not likethat source was.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
So it's interesting to You're arguing with a machine
.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
You're arguing with a machine, I know.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Crazy where we are.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I have so many thoughts about robots.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
This is not like in the old days.
You would say, hey, twophysicians looking at a study
and saying, well, you're using,you are literally yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Oh, and I talked to Claude.
Well, I will have to show youafterwards.
In preparing for this, yeah, weput in the transcripts of
probably the past year ofpodcasts, put in kind of my bio,
and asked our tool to kind ofassess the key topics and just
the general framework and thenpotential questions and areas
(38:48):
that I should prep and focus on.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
This is fascinating.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Yeah, and so, from an efficiency standpoint, it takes
us to kind of… how did it do?
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It did pretty well.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
It gave you some.
You know it takes us to come.
How did it do?
It did pretty well, it gave yousome.
You know I'll have to.
I was pulling it up.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I'm like oh, I'll have to read this to Tommy.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Yeah, yeah, it was pretty interesting, but just
kind of pulling out the themesand the leadership themes and
things that, yes, could I havegotten to it, of course, but it
would have taken me probablythree to four hours.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I am so glad you did this and I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting.
So, going back to where thingsare going, I think the cat is
out of the bag of this tool andso many people are coming up
with different applications forit.
I think, legally, the legalsystem needs to catch up with it
, because it's not like rightnow unless something's changed
in the past month that I don'tknow about you can necessarily
(39:38):
copyright outputs of AI.
We're seeing things out therewhere there are AI bots and
entities that are creatingcontent that looks like news
that is factually inaccurateabout, say, some of our clients,
and trying to get to the bottomof that to correct it is
challenging.
I had never thought of thateither, and that's some of the
(40:00):
dangers of it, right, and Iwould also say some of the
dangers that we're starting tohear bits and pieces about is
just like the algorithm.
So maybe I'll just starttalking about corgis, and I am
sure my phone is listening.
On an Instagram, I'll start tosee corgis all the time or I get
stuck in a particular algorithm.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
I didn't even know what that was until last week.
I do now and my mind is blown.
All these gentlemen do.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
The algorithm on Instagram feeds you a certain
thing.
My concern, and that I think weare seeing with AI, is that how
you're using AI is going tofeed you back your own worldview
.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Oh wow, why wouldn't it?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Right, and so, just like we need to triangulate and
be more media literate becausewe get sucked into a specific
algorithm and worldview, that isone of the dangers of AI, of
making sure that you are trulysourcing and bringing things in,
let alone all the environmentaland energy usage of AI.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Let's talk about that .
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I have a dear colleague that challenges my way
of thinking a lot and herconcern with AI that I've
started to read and see moreabout and you're starting to see
it in tech publications as wellis the massive amount of energy
that is used every time youengage with AI and these data
(41:26):
centers that are going up andjust beyond a typical Google
search just the processingenergy and water that is used.
And I try to be veryresponsible with thinking okay,
do I need to use AI for thattruly, or is there an amount of
processing that is trulyeffective and efficient for my
(41:46):
business that I should use itfor?
But I think all of us are likethis is a cool new tool, let's
play around with it and don'tthink about what that's meaning
for how we're feeding thatengine.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
It's frightening.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Something to keep you up at night.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I was in Moscow looking at a project last week
and I was having lunch with avery, very smart guy.
Oh, I could have just sat therefor a long time with this guy
and he went off on this longsoliloquy on revolutions in
American history and just thecontent was fascinating because
(42:25):
it was really fun to hear histake on every one of them that
happened.
And then he looked at me and hesaid this revolution will be
unlike any other in the fact ofwhat it means to everyday
society winners, losers, how weapproach it, the legal
(42:45):
consequences, the practicalsocial construct consequences.
And he went into this and Imean I just sat there listening
the whole time and I just satback in my chair and thought, oh
wow, I don't.
I mean, I just think we're so,we're just trying to understand
what it is.
And, um, you know, I think we'llfigure it out.
(43:06):
We're hopefully.
I don't know if we figure itout, I'm really I go on deep
dives.
I get I'm weird, I'm just weirdCause I will get stuck on
something and then I will godeep and right now I've studied
like five years ago I wentdeeply into kind of the Idaho
native American, I mean Indianculture yeah.
(43:27):
After I ran for governor Ivisited them all and I'm like,
I'm going to really like, so Idid like a Chief Joseph thing
for like a year and a half and Idid like, so I but.
(43:51):
I have never gone back, anotherlayer, to the ancient, ancient
Native American tribes inAmerica and the history of those
tribes, to how you got so,those thousands of years of how
you got from those tribes up towhat we consider, yeah, the
native american tribes here inour history.
That that I, that I understoodreally well.
Anyway, that's where I'm stuckright now.
But when you sit and thinkabout what has happened in world
history over time topopulations, um, how we always
seem to find a way to destroyeach other, we are getting deep
(44:16):
right now, but no, I think thisis.
I know.
But you sit and think about itand you're like, wow, yeah, and
I will tell you, it only tookthe introduction of horses to
change nomadic,agricultural-based,
hundreds-of-year tribalrelationships of these ancient
(44:39):
American Indian tribes towarrior tribes over hundreds of
years.
Yeah, to then them killing eachother, to then us coming and
massacring all of them, like youlook at how that happened over
hundreds of years and then youthink about introduction of AI.
Yeah, it probably will destroyus, because we're good at
destroying each other.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
We are I mean we just it's really sad.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
And one other irony that came up to me.
I don't know why we're gettingon this, but this is because I
was reading this last night.
But it also has always been oneof the greatest ironies that,
like at the same time we'refighting for civil rights and
freeing the slaves, at the exactsame time we came and massacred
the Indians the same generals.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
The hypocrisy of it all, yeah, the hypocrisy of it
all, yeah, and kind of goingback to two points, that you
made that and let's call ittechnology, whether it is the
wheel or whether it is horses.
It's interesting there havebeen these graphs done about the
time for a mass adoption ohyeah and just our speed and mass
adoption of technologies thatare having the same impact is
(45:50):
exponential.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
This is dell's point.
At lunch up there he's likeevery one of these, like take
refrigeration, which completelychanged the way agriculture was
spread.
Take the industrial revolution,the automobile whatever they
were long, the horse, thewhatever.
And all of a sudden we hadiphone boom.
We have internet boom.
(46:11):
We have ai.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
It's just going to go faster and and we're really
maladapted at quick change intaking care of people and like
yeah what the implications are,and because you had those
generations to get used to that,yeah, whereas we are doing
things almost in amicrogenerational timeframe.
To your point about just thisshock about civilizations, I had
(46:38):
the privilege to go to Egyptand the Nile a couple of years
ago.
How was that?
I was never on a book like that, so what's your theory?
Speaker 1 (46:42):
I can't wait.
No, oh, come on, jess, tell mewhat you think.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
We had an Egyptologist tour guide and when
we were at the Pyramids of Gizaand she was talking and just
the engineering feat, I wouldassume with your brain and your
work you would have so manythoughts.
But I just was sitting thereand she's like how do you think
it was done?
And I start to raise my hand.
She's like you cannot sayaliens.
And I put my hand back downbecause it is just Are you sure?
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I Are you sure?
I think.
I mean, I don't know.
We look back in history andsometimes we don't respect the
intelligence and the complexityof those that came before us.
But the new LIDAR stuff that'sout.
Have you gone down this rabbithole?
I have not gone down thisrabbit hole yet.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Okay, that's your next rabbit hole but to see kind
of what's in.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
If you go on the new LIDAR stuff of what's under it
all, it will blow your mind.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah, just standing there, I was almost in tears.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
I need to go there.
Did you feel safe?
Speaker 3 (47:36):
We did go with a group, so we were in a protected
bubble.
Being in Cairo and the biggercities is definitely a different
experience.
That's that kind of gettingoutside your comfort zone type
of thing.
But yeah, we did, I probably amnever going to get there.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
I am just this stage of my life.
I just want to go to McCall.
Honestly, I don't even want togo to Disneyland.
I don't even want to goanywhere in America anymore, let
alone like I just don't want toever.
I just want to watch it on TV.
I don't know, my family givesme such a hard time.
They want to go to Europe, theywant to go see the world.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
I'm like, ah and go places that you're out of your
comfort zone.
That's kind of the thing I'mlike.
I've been to Japan.
That is so different.
It was so different.
It was at the start of COVID.
We were skiing and the worldwas kind of shutting down as we
were getting ready to come home,and it's just so different.
Every time you travel, italters the way that your brain
(48:33):
sees the world and sees thepeople that you interact with on
a daily basis.
It gives you a broader context.
I'm a big proponent of travel,and not even just if you can't
travel all over the world, thenlike travel outside your bubble
I gotta bring you back to,because I really there's a few I
there's.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
I still have a lot more.
I wanted to ask you, but.
But I want to get back to ourcommunity.
Yes, Um, it's changing rapidly.
Um get asked all the time.
I mean we're, we're seen as theproblem now.
There was a good back in theday when we did eighth and main
right.
It was like, oh, this is sowonderful.
You know you're doing thiswonderful stuff and that ended
(49:10):
now, because now you're like,you're a developer, right.
So we're in the middle of a lotof things.
We're in the middle of a lot ofthings right now and I get
asked all the time how do wekeep Idaho, idaho, how do we
keep our values, how do we keepour heritage, how do we keep
this wonderful place that wehave?
At the same time, you have meta, you have micron, you have
(49:34):
micron v2.
Now, yeah, you've got, uh, youknow you got.
We're discovered like it's notstopping now.
And you know, you talk topeople that are coming from out
of state and I'd come here too.
Yeah, it's not stopping, butwhat's your take on our, our
little community?
Um, what, what we be worriedabout?
How we stay connected, how dowe deal with some of the crazy
(49:55):
stuff that's happening in thelegislature?
Yeah, how do we?
Speaker 3 (50:01):
A couple things.
Some of the my biggest concernsare this ongoing division and
fragmentation, where peopledon't feel they can sit down and
talk to each other, even aboutthings that shouldn't cause
rancor and division.
(50:21):
I have to say you had an electedofficial on recently that is a
friend of mine from years agoand I saw her recently and I
said I mean, I'd always agreewith the way that you vote, yeah
, but I always appreciate howyou explain your thinking and
why you voted that way.
Last year I helped put togethera panel that Superintendent
(50:42):
Critchfield sat on and somebodythat I knew came to it and she
was sitting there with her armsfolded and she was watching.
And after the panel, I'm likewhat do you think she's like?
I was prepared to hate her evenmore, but I got to admit I like
her and she is reasonable andI'm like, yeah, yeah, why would
you think the worst?
(51:04):
And so I feel like continuingto stay away from the online
rage and the snap judgments andhave conversations is key.
I think people need to vote.
I think people need to vote inthe primary.
I think people need to continueto.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Amen, I mean, that's when things happen.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Yeah, and I think that there is a danger of people
completely opting out.
Now I will say a bright,shining light that I saw, that I
want to keep pointing to andhighlighting is how thousands
upon thousands of people ralliedaround public lands.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
That was cool.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
People across all different backgrounds and
political beliefs.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
Yeah, it brought people together.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
And we just saw, I think a whole bunch of our
legislators wrote to ourcongressional delegation
thanking them for their work.
And that is the power of peoplein action and that's the way
our democracy should work, bothon the side of people of all
walks of life realizing theyhave a shared common value,
voicing that and our electedofficials listening.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I agree, and I think my worry because we're kind of
in the thick of it, whether wewant to be or not, I don't know
why we are sometimes SometimesI'm like, why am I in the middle
of this?
But I think in an everincreasingly noisy world like
noisy, noisy that is built todivide us and built to feed,
(52:36):
like it's built to divide us inevery single way, and
monetization of that divide iswhat's really behind it all, so
that's dividing us.
Then you have this other bucketof distraction, just
distraction.
So don't forget thedivisiveness.
Just figure the distraction ofour world right now.
(52:57):
And then this idea of, well,I'm just going to give up, kind
of those three things.
And then underneath it all iswe're just disconnected to each
other, as we probably have beenin a lot of ways, and then we
have these elections that matter, and so it's a big problem.
(53:19):
It's a big problem and I thinkit's going to take authentic
people that can get through thenoise.
And I'm not saying pickingsides here, I'm just saying you
want people that can get throughthe noise and and I'm just not
even saying which, I'm notsaying picking sides here, I'm
just saying you want people thatare critically thinking, that
love this place, yeah, that wantwhat's good for everybody, yeah
, helping us make decisions forour people and not the no, not
(53:40):
not the, not the headlines, andand it worries me a lot, and I
and I'm, and I'm really just I'mmore grateful than ever for
people that, of whatever theirpolitical background, who really
care about my town.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
And our people and my family that are serving and
it's so refreshing to be I don'teven care politically we start
talking about stuff.
But if you care and you're acritical thinker and you're in
this because of we get togetherand all of a sudden we're like
this, we can start talking andwe disagree on a few things.
Where I disagree with people isthe people that are in it, for
(54:18):
you know who said this best?
We had Paul Ryan come to ourthing a couple years ago our
kerosene thing and he just islike, with the change in the way
the media works, there's peoplethat are just not in it for the
right reason.
No, and that is locally.
Yeah, it's statewide, it'snational wide and it's you just
got to be careful because that'sthat's part of our problem.
(54:39):
But I don't, I don't know thesolutions, but I I really
appreciate the fact that you'rein it to win it and and and you
make it, you make it a point tomake a difference.
Um, out there, um, it'sseparate from your business,
it's it's just part of who youare.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
So well, I appreciate that by way way too fast.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
What else?
Uh any closing comments.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
I would say in your point, like there are so many
things to get distracted about.
There are so many things to gettriggered by.
There are so many things to getdistracted about.
There are so many things to gettriggered by, there are so many
things to get angry over.
And what I've tried to do andthat I encourage others to do
and it is an ongoing process isidentify the things that matter
the most to you and put thoseenergies there.
(55:23):
I'm not going to be somebodythat's out at a protest or
organizing a phone tree orwhatever, but I'm going to be
the person that I want to be atthe table where the decisions
and conversations are being made.
So, as much as I can connectinto that and have influence
through those conversations,that's where I'm going to be.
And what are the things that Ibelieve greatly in?
That we should be welcoming toall diverse opinions, that more
(55:47):
people should be at the table tomake us better, that you should
care about your neighbor, andso if there are different ways
that, outside of my business, Ican help with that by helping
people speak more effectively orwith impact, I'm going to do it
.
And so there are so many thingsand so much doom scrolling that
I think we need to guard thatenergy and our sanity in a way
(56:10):
that we can feel like we'rehaving an impact.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Amen, thanks for all you do, thanks for your
leadership, your friendshipcoming on today.
Speaker 3 (56:19):
Thank you for your impactful.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yeah, but uh, you're a, you are a pillar of our
community.
It's awesome, it's awesome totalk to you.
Thank you Well.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
Tommy, thank you.
Today on the EverWild and Word podcast, we have Jess
Flynn.
She's the founder and CEO ofRed Sky.
Jess is everything to everyoneand I'm so happy to get her on
today.
She's been the CEO of the PRand marketing agency Red Sky for
years.
She has 25 years of journalismand PR expertise.
She's an Emmy Award-winningbroadcast journalist.
(00:22):
But, most importantly, jess isa community leader, one of the
pillars of the Treasure Valleycommunity.
She is involved in everythingthat has to do with our
community and making it better.
I'm really excited to have heron today and just hear words of
wisdom and advice from her andlearn more.
You will love this podcast.
Prior to Jess Flynn, I'll havean Alquist update with my
(00:47):
partner Holt Haga hey Holt thisweek for our update.
What I wanted to talk a littlebit about is just how important
relationships are the guys atD&B have been.
Just you know, we become greatpartners with them on a lot of
projects.
So they came to us and wantedto go to Homedale.
Yeah, now I know a guy like you.
You live downtown boise.
(01:07):
You go past 16th street just tocome to work.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You didn't know where homedale was yeah, I didn't
know, I didn't.
Well, if it doesn't have a golfcourse, don't qualify.
It doesn't have a golf, thereason, I know so much about
homedale.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Is the the shooting place place is right?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
oh yeah, we went out.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, so you drove by there, up through there, you
drove through that yeah anyway,they came to us and we ended up,
uh, doing working with johnjackson, jackson's uh legacy,
that's that's where, that'swhere his father had his first
gas station, yeah.
And so they wanted to do a newgas station out there, dmb
wanted to do a new store outthere, and then we all of a
sudden had, you know, I turn itover to you and I'm like hey
(01:43):
what the hell we can do with therest of the site out here.
Really yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, and it, it, it worked out, I think, within gosh
.
I think it was probably withintwo, two months, three months,
we had the rest of the sitelocked down with letters of
intent that we ultimately signedand and we're moving forward
with groups and they're greatgroups- Can you talk about the
groups or no?
Yeah, so O'Reilly has got a.
(02:11):
They took down about an acrethere.
Mcdonald's will be on the hardcorner.
Iccu will have a branch outthere.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I mean, what a great.
I mean you think of Jackson'sand those new tenants and then a
DMV out there, yeah it's agreat little project.
It's a great project.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's a great project, can I tell?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
you a funny story.
I haven't told you this story,I just thought of it.
So I was up at.
It was strange because I was upat an event in Coeur d'Alene at
a hangar and I'm up there andit was about.
It was a thing with Governorand it was a cool event to go to
, but it had nothing to do withHomedale or what I'm going to
talk about.
And I had a lady kind of chaseme down and she's like hey, I
(02:50):
need to talk to you, you arechanging my child's life.
And I'm like, hmm, I'm up inCoeur d'Alene and I'm trying to
like you know.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You're just like, where is?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
this going to go?
And when is this going to go?
You're just like, where is thisgoing to go?
And she says I live in Holmdel.
And do you know how excited mykids are?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
that they can go to McDonald's and get a Happy Meal.
It puts things in perspective,right Hold?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
on Dang, you're welcome.
You're welcome, I am not sure,from a nutritional, like macro
like, just like brain health orwhatever that french fries and
chicken nuggets are the barriersto entry.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
For Now it's an everyday thing instead of every
three days.
But no, she's like think aboutit.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
They've never had anything like that close by yeah
.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
And anyway, it was a funny story.
I just started laughing so hard.
You changed my life.
You're probably thinking backwith your ER days.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You saved my life literally.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It was chicken nuggets.
Now it's chicken nuggets.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And I gave credit.
I'm like, hey, I got a teamthat figured all this out,
anyway.
But at Home, dell, we're goingto have our groundbreaking of
the week in this podcast.
Yeah, what a great community.
I do need to say like, sincewe've been out there, like the,
the city, the mayor, the people,the and this is no surprise you
get a little bit into ruralidaho.
It is the heart and soul of ourstate.
It's the most wonderful folksyou've ever been around, and and
(04:16):
this project is going to bebeautiful.
We're starting construction.
All of it goes in at the sametime and and it's, uh, it's
already under construction we'restarting site.
Work out there already.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, I went from never going to Homedale once in
the last 10 years to like 10times in the last couple months.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And it's great to spend time out there and there's
growth out there.
It's beautiful People in theTraverse Valley?
Maybe not.
Well, first of all it'sbeautiful, but we're sprawling
out that way unintentionally.
But a lot of people you knowyou can still go out there and
get some acreage and a lot goingon.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, you're right on the river.
It's beautiful, it is, andagain back.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Shout out to DMV.
That community will change whenyou have someone like DMV.
Come in and and and make, makesomething like this happen.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So yeah, it's going to be.
It's another great project.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks everybody.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Jess, thank you for coming on.
This is like I'm excited I amexcited as well.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I'm sure this conversation is going to go in a
lot of interesting directions.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
They always do.
They always do.
Thank you so much.
You're an incredible person.
I was talking to someone aboutyou the other day and, anyway,
you're kind of a communitypillar and you're everywhere and
have developed into the go-tofor all things that matter for
(05:43):
Boise.
So the Treasure Valley, howdoes it feel?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I feel like I'm blushing.
We can probably see that onscreen.
I always tell people to figureout how to graciously accept
compliments.
So thank you for that andrecognizing that, because it's
important to me as a businessowner and a leader to figure out
what my role is in thecommunity and where I can
connect people, and so if thatis what the perception is out
(06:12):
there, then I'm doing my job andbeing successful.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I would say back to you you're so authentic and
genuinely about our communityand our people and this place.
That probably is where it comesfrom, at least when I mean,
that would be the first wordthat would come out of my mouth.
Has that always been naturalfor you?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
No, no, I would say, and this goes back to while I
have now lived in Boise in Idaho, more than anywhere else,
longer than anywhere else.
I am not an Idaho native.
I know that you talk about thisa lot with your guests, but I
was first dragged here kickingand screaming as a teenager for
my senior year of high schoolfrom New York and then, after
(06:55):
the start of my professionalcareer, I chose to come back and
I chose to stay, and then Ieventually became an
entrepreneur and I think it wastruly about halfway through this
entrepreneurial journey where Irealized, okay, we don't truly
exist in silos and forbusinesses and our employees to
be successful, we have to figureout where our impact and
(07:18):
connectivity is and how we canbring together people and ideas
around, whether that's sharedgoals or shared values.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Isn't it interesting, though, like doing the right,
authentic thing, like if yougave a class, like, let's say,
you went and taught at BoiseState today, yeah, and you were
with a room full of 50 inspiringentrepreneurs, and it was some
business class, and you weresaying what's the most important
thing for you to develop asuccessful or in some business
(07:46):
class, and you were sayingwhat's the most important thing
for you to develop a successful,profitable business?
It probably would be if youcould authentically connect to
your heart and what you want andthe people, and serve and do
things.
It's not going to be immediate,but for your brand, for who you
are, for what you do, you'lllook back and go.
Well, it was what I liked doing, because I wanted to do it
anyway, and it became.
(08:06):
It's just interesting how thatgoes right.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, yeah, and it's this word authenticity, and how
we live an authentic life.
I feel that has probably beenone of the biggest journeys I've
been on in how much of myselfdo I show, whether it's to
clients or to community, because, on one hand, you want to
portray this confidence andconviction in what you're doing,
(08:30):
but the authentic reality is asa small business owner, as
somebody that cares about thisplace.
There are things that concernme.
There are definitely thingsthat give me anxiety and keep me
up at night, and it's thatbalance of how much do you
transparently and authenticallyshare and how much do you.
So it's that how much do youcheerlead or how much are you a
(08:51):
hard truth teller?
And I think for I speak a lotto people that are starting out
in businesses or thinking aboutpartnerships or anything and I'm
like there's a couple of thingsyou really need to do.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Do you enjoy the mentorship part of your life?
I do.
I do Because I know you do alot of it.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I do have a lot of conversations.
It's kind of what fills my cup,that kind of spontaneous
conversation of hey, here's whatI did and here's the places
that I could have done better,here's what I've learned along
the way, and you take thoselearnings of mine and see how it
applies to your life.
And one of the things I tellpeople and I think this is for
any business at any size isconstantly communicating and
(09:31):
thinking about what your idea ofsuccess is.
Because I feel like everysingle business owner will say
of course I want my business tobe successful, but what success
means to me versus what it meansto you?
But what success means to meversus what it means to you?
You know, I've been in businesswith folks and success to them
was providing financially fortheir family and for their
retirement.
Success to me has always beenabout creating a place where
(10:02):
people can satisfy theirambitions and do great work and
have an impact on community.
But that may not always mean acertain profitability, right?
So if you define and constantlylook at what does it mean to be
successful?
Impact on community, but thatmay not always mean a certain
profitability, right?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So it's if you define and constantly look at what
does it mean to be successful?
It's that interesting, butprofitability is there right, so
you have to balance, as, like aCEO, and we'll get, we'll talk
a little about your business,but that's the, isn't that?
What makes it great, though, isyou have to figure out hey, I
have to.
I have to be good at everything.
(10:29):
I have to be good at branding,I have to be good at marketing
myself, I have to be good atwalking that line of being
community involved, but not overthe top, because I I serve
everyone, and and I have to beprofitable, and I have to be
inspiring, and I have to mentor,and I have to make people that
work for me attracted to workhere and recruit and retain them
, and it's that'sentrepreneurship.
It is, and it's tiring.
(10:49):
You have to love it right.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
You have to love it.
You have, you have to, you haveto love it, and you also have
to recognize where you can setup boundaries and say no because
if you aren't energized andpulling energy from things, then
you can't give to other people.
How do you do?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
that I'm not good at it.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
We should have a club .
Speaker 1 (11:14):
What ends up happening with me and I watch it
happen, like last night.
I got home late and I was justdragging ass, I mean it just was
like.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
And, unfortunately for me, it's usually my family
or whoever it's my people thatare closest to me.
It's the end of the day, andthen it's ultimately when I get
home where it's just empty.
How do you keep it up?
And just so that you have whatyou need to deliver to everyone
in your life.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, I have worked hard to get better at
disconnecting at certain points.
In some ways, ourhyperconnected society and being
able to work from anywhere elseis so wonderful, but it's also
so terrible because there is noturning something off.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And in my business.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
We are there for clients at their time of need,
which means I answer the call nomatter when it rings.
For clients at their time ofneed, which means I answer the
call no matter when it rings.
But there are things thatenergize me and help my brain do
different things, and that's alot of hands-on activities.
I did a presentation.
Remember when we had IgniteBoise back in the day.
(12:19):
One of it was why I think everybusiness owner should make
sausage, because I grind meatand make sausage and do things
physically.
I am a sporadic crafter and badartist, so I will cross stitch
inappropriate cross stitchthings with curse words I may
have to get you one, tommy.
So I try to do things that areaway from technology, that
(12:43):
connect my creative side with myhands.
That's so important.
I also try to do things thatmake me uncomfortable, that I
don't know a lot about.
I was in Twin Falls yesterdaybecause I serve on a community
bank board and while monthly,going to Twin for this very
(13:03):
important role takes time out ofmy business, it also frees my
brain from what I'm typicallythinking about, to think about
things in a very different wayfrom a financial system way.
So, diversity, the diversity ofexperiences.
For sure, I imagine we'll saythe D word a lot, because I am a
huge believer in get outsideyour bubble, do things that are
(13:27):
different, surround yourselfwith artists and creatives and
people that view the worlddifferently.
That is energizing to me.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Uh, I'm going to go back Tell me about your move
from New York here, kicking andstring, screaming, yeah, yeah.
Was it a relocation for your,your folks, what, what, what.
What was the reason to come toBoise, idaho?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, so I was born and raised in a town called
Poughkeepsie, new York, in the.
Hudson River Valley, just aboutan hour and a half north of New
York City.
I'm of Irish and Italian roots,out of Queens, and two of my
step-parents and my dad allworked for IBM.
So I lived in a true companytown which I don't think there's
(14:06):
many that exist nowadays when Iwas growing up, where they had
their own country club for IBM.
Like everything we did was tiedto that company did their first
layoffs in the early 90s.
My stepfather at the time choseto take the buyout and look for
a new job, and he found and wasrecruited to a job running an
(14:31):
engineering line at a companyhere in Boise, idaho, and this
was the summer before my senioryear of high school.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Wow, what a tough time to tell your kid they were
moving to Idaho.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I was not a happy kid .
I didn't know anything aboutIdaho, admittedly, couldn't even
find it on a map Right, and somoved here and it was probably
the best thing for me.
There's an author that I love,brene Brown, and I believe she's
the first one that said youknow, don't clear the path for
(15:04):
your kids.
Prepare your kids for the path.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
How do you think about building resilience in
kids?
And, as much as I was probablya complete brat to my parents at
the time, it taught me kind ofthis resilience and starting
over.
And how do you connect withpeople that you have nothing in
common with?
And Boise and Boise High was agreat place for a transplant to
go.
It was really interesting.
(15:30):
I still have some longtimefriends, just had our 30th high
school reunion and there arestill people that I connect with
.
But I was here a year and I waslike I need to get out.
I need to go someplace wherepeople don't look like me.
I need to go far away, to needto go someplace where people
don't look like me.
I need to go far away to a bigschool and a big city.
And so I left Boise.
(15:50):
But there's one thing I forgotabout my move to Boise that I
always think about now.
My mom and I were here ourfirst week and we're walking in
downtown Boise.
These people kept passing us.
I'm like why are they allsmiling at us?
We don't know them.
What do they want from us?
My mom was like they do thathere, they're just friendly.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
They do that here.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I thought it was ridiculous, but I'm now one of
those people that smiles atcomplete strangers on the street
, says hello.
Just lost that edge.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Oh, wow, that's great .
And so then, where'd you go toschool?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Went to.
Oh wow, that's great.
And so then, where'd you go toschool?
Went to the university of texasat austin.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
So I'm a longhorn.
That's great.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I didn't know that yeah, I have strong opinions
about football and you're gonnabe good this year.
Yeah, yeah, I'm hoping.
I'm hoping we'll get to thechampionship.
And yeah, I went there forjournalism my whole life.
I'd been very curious.
I got into journalism in highschool.
Even in elementary school I waswriting and just wanted to,
wanted to know things beforeanybody else and wanted to tell
(16:51):
stories.
And I went there and Ioriginally wanted to be a
foreign correspondent or adocumentary producer and fell
into news producing so theindividuals that are behind the
camera that help put togetherthe newscasts and stuff like
that.
And yeah, started my careerworking in Austin, texas, a
pretty large market, and wasthere for a couple of years and
(17:12):
then got recruited to Pittsburgh.
So I moved to Pittsburgh.
Both places I moved sightunseen because you know that
first pushed me off.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Did you like?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Pittsburgh.
I loved Pittsburgh.
Yeah, it was a great town.
It's interesting it frequentlytops, like Austin, some of these
great kind of innovation andtransformation places, and it is
completely both in the way thatthey've transformed their
downtown but just the waythey've welcomed entrepreneurs
there.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, I had a really good friend there in emergency
medicine, so when I was, anyway,I got snowed in there for like
a week and it was awesome.
It was just awesome.
And before that I mean, if youwould have said Pittsburgh, but
it was, it was really fun.
So how long were you there?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I was there almost exactly two years and then at
the ripe old age, I think I was23 or 24.
I thought I know everythingthere is to know about news.
I should be in management, andthere's times I wish I still had
that confidence and surety ofyouth.
I'm like I can do this.
(18:16):
And so my family had stayed inBoise.
My sister and her husband hadmoved back to Boise to start
their law careers and I thought,well, let's go someplace
comfortable to work inmanagement and then I'll move on
, because in media you movemarkets.
So I came back in 2000.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
And which media company?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I was at Channel 6, so.
Kivi, and I was the executiveproducer there for four years.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Okay, yeah.
So I want to get to what you donow.
So talk me through the birth ofRed Sky.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah.
So instead of moving out ofthis market, I decided, wow, I
really like this place.
Like so many people that comehere either a trailing spouse
for a job, or maybe theygraduate college and they think
I'm going to go somewhere else Ireally wanted to stay and I had
met my longtime partner andhe's a Boise City fireman and
that's a job for life, and hewasn't moving.
(19:09):
So decided, well, how can Imake this work but do something
different?
So storytelling.
So I got into public relationsin 2004.
And I worked for a local agencythe one PR agency in town at
the time Scott Perrin andAssociates, if you remember them
.
And after about two years there, one of our biggest clients
(19:29):
hired me to be doing PR in-houseand that was Tamarack Resort.
Oh, wow.
So worked for Tamarack until atime when some of us were saying
, hey, there needs to be astrategic PR agency in this town
that really looks at PR in thisbroader way and integrates with
advertising and marketing.
But it is a true businessstrategy.
(19:50):
Why don't we start something?
And there was three other folkswho'd been doing PR and
business way longer than I hadand I said that would be
interesting.
And in 2008, if you recall, itwas a challenging time in the
economy and a challenging timein development.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
It's nice to be around someone that remembers
that.
It seems like I've had a lot ofyoung guests I'm like.
Well, there was this thingcalled the Great Recession.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, yeah, oh, I remember it well and in some
ways and you hear all theseanecdotes about like the best
time to start a business.
We wound up, my job essentiallydisappeared at Tamarack.
So while we'd been talkingacademically about starting a PR
agency, we did it in a week tostand up.
Red Sky and I looked back andwe actually incorporated on
(20:34):
February 29th 2008.
I don't know if doing it on aleap day helps at all.
But yeah, so we started andthere were originally four
founders and I am the soleremaining founder and CEO.
So 17 years in business andlots of ups and downs in the
economy since then.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
And have done a tremendous I mean your body of
work.
Is it strange for you when youreflect now, over 17 years, what
kind of emotions and whatthoughts do you have?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
It seems both long and very short.
I look back and I think aboutit.
I mean we've had over 50 folksthat have worked for us
throughout this time.
You know, currently the tenureof folks that are with us are
from four to 15 years, so wehave long term employees.
I'm proud, I will have to say,from a competitive side At one
(21:29):
point, the people that wouldkind of leave and go on to other
things, and sometimescompetitive agencies my
competitive side would get allriled up.
But now I'm like if they gainedthe skills and the confidence
and the desire to start and runtheir own businesses, that is a
credit to what we had at Red Skyand I take great pride in
(21:50):
seeing a lot of formercolleagues who have started
their own successful businessesyes, in comms, but other places,
and so I take a lot of formercolleagues who have started
their own successful businessesyes, in comms, but other places,
and so I take a lot of pride inthat and that.
The other thing that I reallylove is when people come up to
me and say, through thetrainings or through the work
that we've done with you, inspeaking and sharing our story
or in doing interviews, I'vegained this confidence in how I
(22:13):
engage in the world and tell mystory.
So to have that kind of thoseseeds of impact, it's very
rewarding, it is extremelyrewarding.
I love to hear that.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Did you always, and I've been thinking about what to
ask you.
But you're very good atconnecting people.
You're very good at confidenceand relationships.
I've seen you do your thing.
Was it always natural?
Was it kind of like a God-givenhey, this is what I do?
Or have you had to develop that?
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yes, and yes I would say the curiosity factor has
always been there.
I like to say I'm voraciouslycurious.
That's why journalism, itseemed, came as a natural first
career, because that ability toask questions, to listen and ask
even deeper questions hasalways been something that gives
me great satisfaction.
(23:06):
And then, kind of that nextphase that came as Red Sky kind
of grew, probably about fiveyears in, was this realization
that the true value that ourclients saw was when we could
connect businesses, individualsand ideas together to create
something even better, take themoutside of their silo.
And I've often said that it'snot six degrees, it's two
(23:31):
degrees of separation in Boiseand Idaho, even as we grow.
It's the same way, and I thinkthere's such a value in how we
can feel so apart in technologyif people can help connect us.
And so that is, yes, somethingthat we do with our clients, but
also in my personal life.
I love when people that comefrom perhaps disparate
(23:53):
backgrounds can recognize theyhave some sort of common
interest, common ground, commonconversation to have.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
You're good at it.
What is the most importantquality, do you think, in
someone starting a business here, for whatever reason?
I get the privilege and I thinkit is an honor to have people
come in and say, hey, will youmentor me, will you help me?
And I take it seriously.
I often sometimes my assistantwill say what the heck are you
doing?
And I'm like I will always maketime for it.
(24:22):
But.
But I get asked that questionLike what, what if?
As you're starting out, whatare the qualities that you
should either have, naturallyand even and I like how you said
yes and yes.
So you may have them, but yourstrengths can become stronger
and your weaknesses or blindspots can be discovered and then
improved upon.
But what are the qualities youwould suggest to young
(24:44):
entrepreneurs out therelistening that would make a
difference over the long haul intheir careers to have a
successful Red Sky?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, I do think self-awareness in those.
It was interesting we weretalking about on a panel
recently soft skills and AprilArmson from Micron, the chief
people officer, was moderatingthe panel and she's like we
don't call them soft skills, wecall them power skills, and I
love that because I think theremay be technical things that
(25:16):
people feel they must have inorder to run a business.
I have a journalism degree.
I don't have an MBA.
I failed my stats course incollege when I tried to get a
minor in business.
Like that part of running abusiness does not come naturally
to me.
I have to work hard at it.
The parts that I feel sometimesare glossed over are those
(25:37):
power skills of okay, you haveto have self-awareness, you have
to have empathy andunderstanding that phrase it's
not personal, it's business.
That's not true.
Everything is personal Becauseevery decision you make impacts
an individual, not just you, butthe people that may be
partnering or working with you.
I, by my very nature, am aparanoid pragmatist.
(26:02):
I wake up every morning and Ithink about possibly the worst
things that can happen and I tryto prepare for them.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That gives me comfort , I think that's why that's a
hell of a way to live, jess.
Okay, I'm trying to be morepositive.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
But it's pragmatism, it's not pessimism.
It's, you know, like, what arethe challenges that I might face
?
Yeah, but I think that you needto surround yourself with
people that are almost theopposite of you.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So I need, I do.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Right, that's big.
And it can't be.
Yes, people, it may feel niceto have people around you that
think everything you say iswonderful, but you need those
folks that are going to questionand challenge you, whether they
are an advisory board or amentor, somebody that challenges
your thinking and yourdecisions so that your thinking
(26:48):
and decisions are made better byit, even if you stand in your
own convictions.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
That is so.
I'm so glad you're bringingthat up.
I think about and I say this toanyone who asks me but, like
Ryan, cleverley is kind of myright hand but he is opposite in
every way, yin to yang right,half glass empty.
This is why it won't work.
He's the accountant, he's thenumbers guy, he's the, he's the
wait a minute guy.
(27:12):
And I think of of how manytimes that, that tension, if I
didn't have that in my life,what trouble I would have got in
.
And just like the, it's just a.
That's growth.
You want to surround yourselfwith people smarter than you and
that challenge what you do, Imean, and that's not intuitive
to some people.
No, you gotta get, you gottaget secure with that.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, and there were two things.
When I was reflecting back whenwe celebrated our 10th
anniversary, there were a coupleof things that I wrote down,
and one of them was just becauseit's not how I would do, it
doesn't mean it's wrong.
You're growing kind of almostbeyond that startup and
(27:56):
management role and trying to bea leader.
It is that, as you'redelegating to those that you
hire you partner with, isrecognizing and trying to.
We all have ego, but trying totake some of that out and be
like this is perhaps another wayto do it.
It's not how I would do it.
And then walking into everyconversation, even with those
you disagree with, even withthose that may be at a lower
level than you in experience,and appreciating that they know
(28:20):
something I do not.
Every single person knowssomething.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
You- do not Beautifully put.
Beautifully put, I think that'sthe.
I mean, those are the thingsthat you probably mature into.
Yeah, yeah, because when youstart and, frankly, when you get
going and you're starting abusiness and you don't have room
for error, yeah, yeah, becausewhen you start, and and and and,
frankly, when you get going andyou're starting a business and
you don't have room for errorand you want to control
everything because you have to,because it has to succeed Right,
and then, as you, as you age,and you think, hey, I'm going to
(28:46):
have to start trusting, and Ithink it's a process, um, I
think I'm getting better at it.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Um think, I think and hope I am as well.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Sometimes I wonder.
I want to shift topics a littlebit.
If you think of media PR, whatyou're an expert at, and you
think of how much it's changedin your 17 years and how it
continues to just evolve, I meanit's, it's on this, it's on
this rocket ship that who knowswhere it's going.
(29:18):
It's probably.
I mean, this is a.
This is a shameless plug.
I'm going to give you one, butit's probably more important
than ever for companies to havetrusted people out front like
you helping them navigate thisworld, cause it is such a it's,
it's so different, yeah, thatthat trusted advisory role, that
strategic communications role,you helping them navigate this
world, because it is such a it's.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
It's so different, yeah, that that trusted advisory
role, that strategiccommunications role, um, I used
to get so angry when people belike, oh, why would you pay for
that?
I'm like you pay for lawyers,you pay for accountants, you pay
for these outside professionals, yeah, to bolster what you have
in house.
It's the same with comms, mostof the time it's cleaning up the
shit that happens.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
So it's like why wouldn't you pay for it to try
to help?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
on the front.
It's kind of like you're goingto pay for it one way or another
and I think, too, having havingfolks that can kind of keep
their heads up and be lookingforward, because so much of
being in a business you arehandling the day to day in the
weeds.
So since the communicationlandscape has gone through
multiple iterations of likethese earthquake transformations
(30:20):
, starting in 2008 was kind ofthe advent of social media
becoming something thatbusinesses were actually like
wait, is this something that weshould do?
I think back.
I was on Twitter in 2008.
And we had this whole BoiseTwitter community and it was
this fabulous place where youwould connect with folks that
you would have no otherwisereason to ever know and then you
(30:43):
would meet in real life and itwas this very congenial,
interesting place to be.
I do miss that quite a lotbecause it is kind of a
hellscape right now in certainparts of social media it's half
bots and who knows what right.
Yeah, and I would say at thattime there was this fear, like
there is with every technology,that oh my God, we're not going
(31:07):
to need any PR, marketing oradvertising agencies because we
can do it all ourselves.
And I think there was thatbrief bit of fear where
businesses were going to oh God,they're going to just take it
all in-house.
And that's not what happened.
We have this real interest intechnology and how do we use it
and like the pendulum goes oneway and then it settles back
(31:27):
into.
We still need strategy, westill need intentionality, we
still need planning and goalsand thoughts and understanding
of what does thisdemocratization of communication
mean for me, my business, mybrand, like I used to tout it,
was the greatest thing everbecause you could be a
broadcaster, you could be anewspaper publisher, you had
(31:49):
these tools at your disposal.
Now, what we're seeing is thisfragmentation of the media
landscape, as in there is no onesource of news that I turn to
for all my needs.
I do what I call triangulation.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I work very hard to get out.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
You have to right Because otherwise you don't know
what to believe anymore Exactly.
And this crisis of trust whatare the entities that people
turn to trust?
What are the industries, whatare these iconic places and we
think about?
Back in the day, we used tohave great high trust in
(32:29):
government, we used to in mediaand all of these things have you
found?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
your customers coming to you and having you help them
with their communication sothat their own customers trust
them.
Yeah, I mean I know that soundscrazy, but I just had one of
our healthcare CEOs on andwithin healthcare.
I would have never in a millionyears in my life one of the
beautiful things.
There were a lot of alwayschallenging things about being
(32:54):
in an ER and healthcare but younever got questioned, you never
like it would have never come up.
Are you telling me the truth oryour intentions there?
Or is this about billing andI've thought about like just
that?
I mean, healthcare is nottrusted anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
It's not there.
I'm trying to think back to.
Every year Edelman, which isthis global company, puts out
the Edelman trust barometer,where it's looking at and
assessing where trust lies ininstitutions and everything has
fallen off the cliff.
So all institutions, allinstitutions have taken a dip.
At one point it was thatbusinesses are more trusted, as
(33:35):
in business leaders, what theywould say.
Their employees would trustthem more, the consumers would
trust them.
But everything is on thisdownward slide and, yes, our
clients do come to us with.
How are we trying to reachdirectly to people and make sure
they trust what is coming outof our mouths and our
information?
And a lot of times we'regetting to.
(33:56):
How do we establish a onesource of truth location for
everything that you have to say?
How do we make it easy forpeople to understand?
How do we also give them thecredible backup information so
if they are in thattriangulation mode, they know it
is not just your marketingspeak, it is also backed up by
(34:17):
data and information.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
My mind's buzzing as you're saying all this, Because
I'm just thinking through thecomplexities in today's world of
running and I know yourepresent big businesses, medium
, small and probably a littledifferent for each one of them,
but all of them have to tacklewhat you just said.
And now there is kind of thismarketing brand strategy.
(34:40):
That is super important.
That, and then there's also theand how do you create one
source of truth for what you'resaying and how people verify and
and garnish truth in who youare, whether you're a real
estate company or a hospital ora whatever.
It is right.
Yeah, it's more complicatedthan it's ever been.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
More complicated than it's ever been and
unfortunately, I would say thatAI, while I found it.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I can't wait to talk to you about this.
Oh gosh, this is my next thing.
I said it, I brought it in.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
It is more complicated now and it will
increasingly get morecomplicated.
And it's this interestingtension of we have more ways to
reach people than ever beforeYay and oh God, we have more
ways to reach people than everbefore.
And it's really trying to dothe research to understand and
(35:31):
identify who are you trying toreach, what are you trying to
influence them to think or do,and how do you figure out, how
to measure it All right let'sget into it then.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
The role of AI, like so when I just had the
healthcare CEO on.
There's certainly some verypositive things about AI, yes,
how it's going to make us moreefficient.
You know and I walked himthrough an example of just
charting and follow-up andintegration of research and
tools and for patient care, allof those sort of things.
(36:00):
But if you think of thenegatives, I mean I don't even
know where this thing's headingbecause it's happening so
quickly.
Jess, it's frightening how andlisten, as an old guy that's
still trying to figure it out Imean we're using it a lot.
We're using it for contracts,we're using it for press
releases, we're using it forwe're.
We're just starting to use itmore because it's become pretty
(36:24):
dang efficient.
But where's it going?
And and what do we need to beworried about?
And, um, what does the nextthree to five years look like?
Speaker 3 (36:35):
well, I guess the easiest way I can say where we
are right now is everybodystarted playing in the
playground and nobody set up therules for it.
Oh, I like that right.
So everyone's all over andthere's this excitement to it.
And then there's bits andpieces that are coming out.
When we see these horriblethings, like whatever happened
on x the other day with some ofthe content that was going out
(36:56):
from Grok, and we are seeinghallucinations.
And you mentioned a pressrelease I early on put in, you
know, okay, testing it out,write this, and it had a
completely different CEO than meabout.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Red.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Sky.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I'm like, where are you getting that from?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
So we are at a place where there's probably read
really well like I will saythere's some language, but yes,
but it's a good like.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
It's a good point.
Like you're depending on who'sproducing the ai and there's
different sources for that andwhat data it gets it's going to,
in my opinion, I think it'sgoing to erode this whole belief
system even more.
Like, okay, do I believe thisit's going to cause people.
Maybe that's a good thing.
(37:41):
Maybe it's a good thing thatwe're going to need to verify,
but I don't know.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
And that's part of it .
I have appreciated seeing insome of the platforms I use
Claude a lot just because of thestructure of it works better
for our creative industry and Iappreciate when they're sourcing
and sometime I'll double checkon the source.
I'll click over to the sourcingand be like that is the wrong
(38:04):
extrapolation from that.
You positioned this, not likethat source was.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
So it's interesting to You're arguing with a machine
.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
You're arguing with a machine, I know.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Crazy where we are.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I have so many thoughts about robots.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
This is not like in the old days.
You would say, hey, twophysicians looking at a study
and saying, well, you're using,you are literally yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Oh, and I talked to Claude.
Well, I will have to show youafterwards.
In preparing for this, yeah, weput in the transcripts of
probably the past year ofpodcasts, put in kind of my bio,
and asked our tool to kind ofassess the key topics and just
the general framework and thenpotential questions and areas
(38:48):
that I should prep and focus on.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
This is fascinating.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Yeah, and so, from an efficiency standpoint, it takes
us to kind of… how did it do?
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It did pretty well.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
It gave you some.
You know it takes us to come.
How did it do?
It did pretty well, it gave yousome.
You know I'll have to.
I was pulling it up.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I'm like oh, I'll have to read this to Tommy.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Yeah, yeah, it was pretty interesting, but just
kind of pulling out the themesand the leadership themes and
things that, yes, could I havegotten to it, of course, but it
would have taken me probablythree to four hours.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I am so glad you did this and I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting.
So, going back to where thingsare going, I think the cat is
out of the bag of this tool andso many people are coming up
with different applications forit.
I think, legally, the legalsystem needs to catch up with it
, because it's not like rightnow unless something's changed
in the past month that I don'tknow about you can necessarily
(39:38):
copyright outputs of AI.
We're seeing things out therewhere there are AI bots and
entities that are creatingcontent that looks like news
that is factually inaccurateabout, say, some of our clients,
and trying to get to the bottomof that to correct it is
challenging.
I had never thought of thateither, and that's some of the
(40:00):
dangers of it, right, and Iwould also say some of the
dangers that we're starting tohear bits and pieces about is
just like the algorithm.
So maybe I'll just starttalking about corgis, and I am
sure my phone is listening.
On an Instagram, I'll start tosee corgis all the time or I get
stuck in a particular algorithm.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
I didn't even know what that was until last week.
I do now and my mind is blown.
All these gentlemen do.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
The algorithm on Instagram feeds you a certain
thing.
My concern, and that I think weare seeing with AI, is that how
you're using AI is going tofeed you back your own worldview
.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Oh wow, why wouldn't it?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Right, and so, just like we need to triangulate and
be more media literate becausewe get sucked into a specific
algorithm and worldview, that isone of the dangers of AI, of
making sure that you are trulysourcing and bringing things in,
let alone all the environmentaland energy usage of AI.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Let's talk about that .
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I have a dear colleague that challenges my way
of thinking a lot and herconcern with AI that I've
started to read and see moreabout and you're starting to see
it in tech publications as wellis the massive amount of energy
that is used every time youengage with AI and these data
(41:26):
centers that are going up andjust beyond a typical Google
search just the processingenergy and water that is used.
And I try to be veryresponsible with thinking okay,
do I need to use AI for thattruly, or is there an amount of
processing that is trulyeffective and efficient for my
(41:46):
business that I should use itfor?
But I think all of us are likethis is a cool new tool, let's
play around with it and don'tthink about what that's meaning
for how we're feeding thatengine.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
It's frightening.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Something to keep you up at night.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I was in Moscow looking at a project last week
and I was having lunch with avery, very smart guy.
Oh, I could have just sat therefor a long time with this guy
and he went off on this longsoliloquy on revolutions in
American history and just thecontent was fascinating because
(42:25):
it was really fun to hear histake on every one of them that
happened.
And then he looked at me and hesaid this revolution will be
unlike any other in the fact ofwhat it means to everyday
society winners, losers, how weapproach it, the legal
(42:45):
consequences, the practicalsocial construct consequences.
And he went into this and Imean I just sat there listening
the whole time and I just satback in my chair and thought, oh
wow, I don't.
I mean, I just think we're so,we're just trying to understand
what it is.
And, um, you know, I think we'llfigure it out.
(43:06):
We're hopefully.
I don't know if we figure itout, I'm really I go on deep
dives.
I get I'm weird, I'm just weirdCause I will get stuck on
something and then I will godeep and right now I've studied
like five years ago I wentdeeply into kind of the Idaho
native American, I mean Indianculture yeah.
(43:27):
After I ran for governor Ivisited them all and I'm like,
I'm going to really like, so Idid like a Chief Joseph thing
for like a year and a half and Idid like, so I but.
(43:51):
I have never gone back, anotherlayer, to the ancient, ancient
Native American tribes inAmerica and the history of those
tribes, to how you got so,those thousands of years of how
you got from those tribes up towhat we consider, yeah, the
native american tribes here inour history.
That that I, that I understoodreally well.
Anyway, that's where I'm stuckright now.
But when you sit and thinkabout what has happened in world
history over time topopulations, um, how we always
seem to find a way to destroyeach other, we are getting deep
(44:16):
right now, but no, I think thisis.
I know.
But you sit and think about itand you're like, wow, yeah, and
I will tell you, it only tookthe introduction of horses to
change nomadic,agricultural-based,
hundreds-of-year tribalrelationships of these ancient
(44:39):
American Indian tribes towarrior tribes over hundreds of
years.
Yeah, to then them killing eachother, to then us coming and
massacring all of them, like youlook at how that happened over
hundreds of years and then youthink about introduction of AI.
Yeah, it probably will destroyus, because we're good at
destroying each other.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
We are I mean we just it's really sad.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
And one other irony that came up to me.
I don't know why we're gettingon this, but this is because I
was reading this last night.
But it also has always been oneof the greatest ironies that,
like at the same time we'refighting for civil rights and
freeing the slaves, at the exactsame time we came and massacred
the Indians the same generals.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
The hypocrisy of it all, yeah, the hypocrisy of it
all, yeah, and kind of goingback to two points, that you
made that and let's call ittechnology, whether it is the
wheel or whether it is horses.
It's interesting there havebeen these graphs done about the
time for a mass adoption ohyeah and just our speed and mass
adoption of technologies thatare having the same impact is
(45:50):
exponential.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
This is dell's point.
At lunch up there he's likeevery one of these, like take
refrigeration, which completelychanged the way agriculture was
spread.
Take the industrial revolution,the automobile whatever they
were long, the horse, thewhatever.
And all of a sudden we hadiphone boom.
We have internet boom.
(46:11):
We have ai.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
It's just going to go faster and and we're really
maladapted at quick change intaking care of people and like
yeah what the implications are,and because you had those
generations to get used to that,yeah, whereas we are doing
things almost in amicrogenerational timeframe.
To your point about just thisshock about civilizations, I had
(46:38):
the privilege to go to Egyptand the Nile a couple of years
ago.
How was that?
I was never on a book like that, so what's your theory?
Speaker 1 (46:42):
I can't wait.
No, oh, come on, jess, tell mewhat you think.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
We had an Egyptologist tour guide and when
we were at the Pyramids of Gizaand she was talking and just
the engineering feat, I wouldassume with your brain and your
work you would have so manythoughts.
But I just was sitting thereand she's like how do you think
it was done?
And I start to raise my hand.
She's like you cannot sayaliens.
And I put my hand back downbecause it is just Are you sure?
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I Are you sure?
I think.
I mean, I don't know.
We look back in history andsometimes we don't respect the
intelligence and the complexityof those that came before us.
But the new LIDAR stuff that'sout.
Have you gone down this rabbithole?
I have not gone down thisrabbit hole yet.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Okay, that's your next rabbit hole but to see kind
of what's in.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
If you go on the new LIDAR stuff of what's under it
all, it will blow your mind.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah, just standing there, I was almost in tears.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
I need to go there.
Did you feel safe?
Speaker 3 (47:36):
We did go with a group, so we were in a protected
bubble.
Being in Cairo and the biggercities is definitely a different
experience.
That's that kind of gettingoutside your comfort zone type
of thing.
But yeah, we did, I probably amnever going to get there.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
I am just this stage of my life.
I just want to go to McCall.
Honestly, I don't even want togo to Disneyland.
I don't even want to goanywhere in America anymore, let
alone like I just don't want toever.
I just want to watch it on TV.
I don't know, my family givesme such a hard time.
They want to go to Europe, theywant to go see the world.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
I'm like, ah and go places that you're out of your
comfort zone.
That's kind of the thing I'mlike.
I've been to Japan.
That is so different.
It was so different.
It was at the start of COVID.
We were skiing and the worldwas kind of shutting down as we
were getting ready to come home,and it's just so different.
Every time you travel, italters the way that your brain
(48:33):
sees the world and sees thepeople that you interact with on
a daily basis.
It gives you a broader context.
I'm a big proponent of travel,and not even just if you can't
travel all over the world, thenlike travel outside your bubble
I gotta bring you back to,because I really there's a few I
there's.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
I still have a lot more.
I wanted to ask you, but.
But I want to get back to ourcommunity.
Yes, Um, it's changing rapidly.
Um get asked all the time.
I mean we're, we're seen as theproblem now.
There was a good back in theday when we did eighth and main
right.
It was like, oh, this is sowonderful.
You know you're doing thiswonderful stuff and that ended
(49:10):
now, because now you're like,you're a developer, right.
So we're in the middle of a lotof things.
We're in the middle of a lot ofthings right now and I get
asked all the time how do wekeep Idaho, idaho, how do we
keep our values, how do we keepour heritage, how do we keep
this wonderful place that wehave?
At the same time, you have meta, you have micron, you have
(49:34):
micron v2.
Now, yeah, you've got, uh, youknow you got.
We're discovered like it's notstopping now.
And you know, you talk topeople that are coming from out
of state and I'd come here too.
Yeah, it's not stopping, butwhat's your take on our, our
little community?
Um, what, what we be worriedabout?
How we stay connected, how dowe deal with some of the crazy
(49:55):
stuff that's happening in thelegislature?
Yeah, how do we?
Speaker 3 (50:01):
A couple things.
Some of the my biggest concernsare this ongoing division and
fragmentation, where peopledon't feel they can sit down and
talk to each other, even aboutthings that shouldn't cause
rancor and division.
(50:21):
I have to say you had an electedofficial on recently that is a
friend of mine from years agoand I saw her recently and I
said I mean, I'd always agreewith the way that you vote, yeah
, but I always appreciate howyou explain your thinking and
why you voted that way.
Last year I helped put togethera panel that Superintendent
(50:42):
Critchfield sat on and somebodythat I knew came to it and she
was sitting there with her armsfolded and she was watching.
And after the panel, I'm likewhat do you think she's like?
I was prepared to hate her evenmore, but I got to admit I like
her and she is reasonable andI'm like, yeah, yeah, why would
you think the worst?
(51:04):
And so I feel like continuingto stay away from the online
rage and the snap judgments andhave conversations is key.
I think people need to vote.
I think people need to vote inthe primary.
I think people need to continueto.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Amen, I mean, that's when things happen.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Yeah, and I think that there is a danger of people
completely opting out.
Now I will say a bright,shining light that I saw, that I
want to keep pointing to andhighlighting is how thousands
upon thousands of people ralliedaround public lands.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
That was cool.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
People across all different backgrounds and
political beliefs.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
Yeah, it brought people together.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
And we just saw, I think a whole bunch of our
legislators wrote to ourcongressional delegation
thanking them for their work.
And that is the power of peoplein action and that's the way
our democracy should work, bothon the side of people of all
walks of life realizing theyhave a shared common value,
voicing that and our electedofficials listening.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I agree, and I think my worry because we're kind of
in the thick of it, whether wewant to be or not, I don't know
why we are sometimes SometimesI'm like, why am I in the middle
of this?
But I think in an everincreasingly noisy world like
noisy, noisy that is built todivide us and built to feed,
(52:36):
like it's built to divide us inevery single way, and
monetization of that divide iswhat's really behind it all, so
that's dividing us.
Then you have this other bucketof distraction, just
distraction.
So don't forget thedivisiveness.
Just figure the distraction ofour world right now.
(52:57):
And then this idea of, well,I'm just going to give up, kind
of those three things.
And then underneath it all iswe're just disconnected to each
other, as we probably have beenin a lot of ways, and then we
have these elections that matter, and so it's a big problem.
(53:19):
It's a big problem and I thinkit's going to take authentic
people that can get through thenoise.
And I'm not saying pickingsides here, I'm just saying you
want people that can get throughthe noise and and I'm just not
even saying which, I'm notsaying picking sides here, I'm
just saying you want people thatare critically thinking, that
love this place, yeah, that wantwhat's good for everybody, yeah
, helping us make decisions forour people and not the no, not
(53:40):
not the, not the headlines, andand it worries me a lot, and I
and I'm, and I'm really just I'mmore grateful than ever for
people that, of whatever theirpolitical background, who really
care about my town.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
And our people and my family that are serving and
it's so refreshing to be I don'teven care politically we start
talking about stuff.
But if you care and you're acritical thinker and you're in
this because of we get togetherand all of a sudden we're like
this, we can start talking andwe disagree on a few things.
Where I disagree with people isthe people that are in it, for
(54:18):
you know who said this best?
We had Paul Ryan come to ourthing a couple years ago our
kerosene thing and he just islike, with the change in the way
the media works, there's peoplethat are just not in it for the
right reason.
No, and that is locally.
Yeah, it's statewide, it'snational wide and it's you just
got to be careful because that'sthat's part of our problem.
(54:39):
But I don't, I don't know thesolutions, but I I really
appreciate the fact that you'rein it to win it and and and you
make it, you make it a point tomake a difference.
Um, out there, um, it'sseparate from your business,
it's it's just part of who youare.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
So well, I appreciate that by way way too fast.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
What else?
Uh any closing comments.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
I would say in your point, like there are so many
things to get distracted about.
There are so many things to gettriggered by.
There are so many things to getdistracted about.
There are so many things to gettriggered by, there are so many
things to get angry over.
And what I've tried to do andthat I encourage others to do
and it is an ongoing process isidentify the things that matter
the most to you and put thoseenergies there.
(55:23):
I'm not going to be somebodythat's out at a protest or
organizing a phone tree orwhatever, but I'm going to be
the person that I want to be atthe table where the decisions
and conversations are being made.
So, as much as I can connectinto that and have influence
through those conversations,that's where I'm going to be.
And what are the things that Ibelieve greatly in?
That we should be welcoming toall diverse opinions, that more
(55:47):
people should be at the table tomake us better, that you should
care about your neighbor, andso if there are different ways
that, outside of my business, Ican help with that by helping
people speak more effectively orwith impact, I'm going to do it
.
And so there are so many thingsand so much doom scrolling that
I think we need to guard thatenergy and our sanity in a way
(56:10):
that we can feel like we'rehaving an impact.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Amen, thanks for all you do, thanks for your
leadership, your friendshipcoming on today.
Speaker 3 (56:19):
Thank you for your impactful.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yeah, but uh, you're a, you are a pillar of our
community.
It's awesome, it's awesome totalk to you.
Thank you Well.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
Tommy, thank you.
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