What happens when you refuse to accept "impossible"?
Governor Dirk Kempthorne's remarkable journey from transforming a decimated downtown Boise into a thriving urban center to managing one-fifth of America's land as Secretary of the Interior demonstrates the extraordinary impact of visionary leadership.
At 33, Kempthorne ran for mayor of Boise despite political advisors calling it "the dumbest idea we've ever heard." Downtown was so devastated locals called it "Lebanon" – nothing but gravel parking lots where historic buildings once stood. Yet Kempthorne saw potential where others saw ruins. "Before we can have brick and mortar, we need to build cooperation," he explains, describing how he refused to fire opponents and instead built collaborative relationships that ultimately revitalized the city.
This philosophy of determined but inclusive leadership defined his subsequent roles as U.S. Senator, Idaho Governor, and Secretary of the Interior under President Bush. Whether visiting troops in Somalia after Black Hawk Down, vetoing legislation to secure life-saving transportation funding, or challenging Pentagon restrictions to visit Idaho National Guard troops in Iraq, Kempthorne consistently put service above politics.
Perhaps most revealing is how he's facing his current battle with cancer. Rather than retreating into privacy, he went public to encourage others to get tested, approaching treatment with characteristic optimism: "I intend to be a victor, not a victim." Even during chemotherapy, he focuses on productivity rather than discomfort.
For anyone wondering if one person can truly make a difference, Kempthorne offers this wisdom: "If you have an idea in you, something planted that idea. When others say it's not a good idea, but you have it – you may not listen to those. And if it's positive, pursue it." His story isn't just about political achievement but about the transformative power of vision, determination, and unwavering commitment to service.
Listen now to this inspiring conversation with one of Idaho's most consequential leaders, whose impact extends far beyond state borders to the nation itself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today on the Ever Onward podcast, we have Governor
Dirk Kempthorne.
He is truly a living legend inIdaho, has served this community
, our state and this country.
It's going to be so wonderfulto catch up with him and talk
with him about all of the thingsthat he is doing and has done
for the state.
Graduated from the Universityof Idaho with a degree in
(00:25):
political science in 1975.
He was a governor of IdahoBefore that was the mayor of
Boise and we talk a little bitabout that and his vision and
change for the city of Boise.
He served as a senator in theUnited States Senate before
coming back and being governorand ultimately served as the
secretary of the interior underGeorge Bush.
Most importantly, this guy isone of the greatest leaders,
(00:50):
kind, wonderful men, humanbeings on the planet and it'll
be an honor to catch up withGovernor Kempthorne today and
talk about how he's doing.
This is going to be fun today.
(01:10):
I appreciate it.
I'm really excited.
I've admired you for so longand I don't, is it?
Secretary governor?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'm back to governor, you're back to governor, but
I'm also Dirk.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I know.
But when you've been mayor ofBoise, governor awesome dirk, I
know.
But when you've been mayorboise, you're governor kemp
thorn, which is what I, that'swhat I, and then you know.
And then secretary um, you know, I was reading, getting ready
for this, your bio and I just Idon't know that there's anyone
I've ever had on that's got thedepth of leadership and
(01:44):
experience.
I want to start with a quickstory, governor.
We did a little bit of work indowntown Boise and this was when
you were the Secretary of theInterior and you came back and
gave a speech and I never heardyour discussion of Boise,
because you have so muchleadership and history and
you've done so many things thatyou spent an hour at it was a
(02:09):
city club or something talkingabout the history of when you
are responsible for Boise beingwhat it is, so in the, in a
storied career of like making animpact in the nation, as the
state.
But I really today I can't waitto dive into everything because
(02:31):
you've done so much to affectthis place and so it's an honor
to have you on.
Thank you so much.
Well, may I reciprocate.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, it's an honor to be on and what you've done,
Tommy, I mean from an emergencyroom physician where you have
helped people in crisis, you'vebrought them back and then
you've gone on and you now havedone so many things to make this
a great place to live in Boiseand in Idaho.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Well, you're kind, but you're one of my heroes, oh,
bless your heart.
One of my heroes, thank you,and so I'm really glad to have
you on.
Everyone knows you that listensto this, everyone knows what
you've done.
But I want to, if you thinkback now on, can we go back to
the Boise days?
Sure, because I want, forpeople who haven't heard the
(03:18):
story of 8th Street and visionand what you did, can we start
there?
Absolutely, absolutely,absolutely, because there's so
many things.
I in preparation again.
I thought I could go.
You know we only have an hour,so I want to make sure I get it
all in, but I think it's a storymany people haven't heard.
Can you start there for us?
(03:38):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Boise, which we now know as this beautiful, thriving
, award-winning city, was notthat.
I was 33 when I first thoughtof running for mayor and I went
to some of the best politicalthinkers and the message that
they told me was that's thedumbest idea we've ever heard of
(04:00):
.
Nobody's ever been successful.
Nobody's turned around Boiseit's known as quote Lebanon,
because it's just destroyed.
It's nothing but gravel parkinglots.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
They had torn everything down right.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
They'd torn magnificent treasures down.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So great old historic buildings and the idea was to
do a mall right.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
They wanted to put a big box, a one million square
foot box, in the heart ofdowntown and all of the
retailers said we're not coming.
So anyway, I took the adviceand ran for mayor, because they
said if you ever want to run foranything statewide, you'll
never be successful.
I wasn't going to run statewide.
(04:42):
My purpose I had two littlechildren, patricia, and I had
these two little kids, heatherand Jeff, and if I could do
something that in the communitywhere those two little kids, our
daughter and son, had been born, to get the city to the
potential that it was supposedto be, that was my motivation.
I and we started turning thingsaround.
(05:05):
My first trip, tommy, was toNew York City and I met with the
retailers and they said ifyou're serious, we'll come, but
if it's another false start, wewon't touch you.
For 20 years you are the mostunderserved retail facility
community in the United States.
(05:26):
And I said we're serious.
And I had one Saturday.
I went downtown I think it wasactually Sunday morning and I
just walked around that deserteddowntown and I said a prayer
that we could find the way thatthis would become the city that
it should be, was intended to be, and then I sat down on one of
(05:51):
the telephone poles.
It was just, you know that's howthey lined out the gravel
parking lots and Chuck Windercame up, oh wow, and Chuck sat
next to me.
He said can I join you?
I said absolutely, and we just,we commiserated, and then we
said a prayer together and butanyway, so we then went ahead
and released.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I was going to tell you I found when I was, when we
were doing 8th and Main, I foundsomeone sent me and I wish I
could find the file, if I can'tI'll send it to you VHS video
camera and had gone through thecity, probably during this time
in early days of you know, andtook video of the streets and
it's shocking.
(06:31):
I mean it's like, oh mygoodness it was nothing there,
nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, it's funny, tommy, what I went through when
I was running for mayor, becauseI took on the establishment.
I mean, I took on theincumbents and those folks that
were downtown.
And I remember one time I wascoming and I turned the corner
there on Idaho and I startedwalking up and there was a
shopkeeper who was out sweepinghis sidewalk and he immediately
went inside and pulled thecurtain down.
It was like the Old West, youknow.
(07:03):
Here came Gary Cooper.
So, anyway, it was like the oldWest.
Here came Gary Cooper.
Anyway, it was rough and tumble,but once the election was over,
those who supported me wantedme to fire everybody in the
redevelopment agency and I said,no, we're not going to do that,
because if the first thing I dois to remove those folks, then
(07:24):
what I've done is establish ourcritics who will do everything
to make sure we fail.
And I said before, we can havebrick and mortar, we need to
build cooperation.
And so I blended the two, Itied our fates together and
that's how we began to moveforward.
And it was, you know, step bystep.
(07:46):
Winston Moore, yeah, 8th StreetMarketplace was the one bright
spot and that's where Iannounced my candidacy for mayor
and I said Winston, may I usethis?
And he said absolutely, we'vebecome dear friends.
You know, he's 100 years oldnow, I know.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And that guy he's just.
It wasn't another hero exampleof just a community guy who just
never stopped, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
But I would, I'd call people, I'd call Larry Leisure.
I said, Larry, I'm going to goto the legislature and welcome
them to their capital city,because everybody was anti-Boise
.
And I said, no, no, this istheir capital city.
And I said, but I need to knowthe Alexander building, will it
be completed?
Will you do this?
I can't, even if you're 93%,I'm not going to mention it.
(08:30):
He goes no, sir mayor, you tellthem it will be done.
And we did it.
And that was the beginning tostart, begin to build, the fact
that things are happening andwe're going to build this thing
are happening and we're going tobuild this thing.
And then, time after time, Iremember at 5 am, going down to
the Grove, which again wasnothing but the gravel parking
(08:51):
lot, 5 am, I had the parksdepartment dig a hole with a
backhoe and then put the dirtback because I was going to
drive it at a press conference.
But I didn't need the dirtsoftened up and I said this is
going to be the center of ourcommunity.
We had the press conference,then we went out where now Boise
Town Square is, and same thing,and it was a cold, cold morning
(09:14):
.
And here's everybody there atthe press conference and I said
you know, they said it'd be acold day in Boise before we ever
build a mall.
Well, it's cold, yeah, andwe're going to build it.
And I'll tell you what once weopened that, we had a soft
opening the night before, wherethe Philharmonic performed.
All the stores were there,nothing was to be sold.
That night we had a dinner andit was a celebration, a
(09:38):
celebration of the hope anddreams.
Do you remember, tommy?
It was tradition for people totake bus trips to Salt Lake City
for Christmas shopping, andthat stopped.
Now we have this beautiful,award-winning city.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Did you all?
I mean, I'm trying to think so.
You're 33, you're doing this.
You're doing it for the rightreasons, authentically
tremendous leader.
Did you know that you had theability, the vision, the ability
to inspire people?
Then Was it God-given?
Tell me a little bit aboutwhere this comes from.
I appreciate the question.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I am a person of faith.
No, I can't tell you that itwas that.
I just knew this would happen.
I was motivated.
Yeah, there were times, though,that, with my wonderful wife
Patricia, she'd have to talk meback and say come on, you can do
this.
That's why you're here, that'swhy you've been picked to do
(10:38):
this thing.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
You guys have been partners in crime for a long
time.
Yeah, about 48 years.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Where did you meet her University of Idaho.
Okay, yep.
And ultimately we got marriedon top of Moscow Mountain at
sunrise, because they saidthere's no more beautiful
cathedral than God's creationoutdoors.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
And you've been married for 48 years, 48 years.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That's awesome Two kids, seven wonderful grandkids.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Wow, wow, I'm going to bounce around a little bit.
Sure.
So I did want to get on thispodcast, the History of Boise,
because I think you must walkaround downtown.
I was there last night.
You probably know I had dinnerlast night with John Sununu oh
good, the governor of NewHampshire downtown.
(11:27):
But just walking arounddowntown now, what emotions do
you feel as you walk around andsee what it has become?
Joy, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I've said to Patricia on different occasions, if we'd
never been here and I justpulled into Boise, I said I
would call you and say I foundthe place where we want to live.
I mean, it's a vibrant downtown.
And I'll tell you what's reallyspecial too is you know, it's
like Alex LeBeau and Jason Ronk.
I had coffee with them thisweek but early morning hours in
(12:01):
downtown Boise, when theprovisioning trucks are pulling
up and the vegetables arearriving, it's bright, it's
cheerful, it's fresh, you have acup of coffee.
I mean, it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I mean the streetscapes, yes, the trees, I
mean it's just.
You know, last night was aThursday night, it was just
vibrant down there and I playeda little small role.
I walked by our building, wedid, but like so much came
before me and there's so muchvision that people I mean that
(12:34):
8th Street and I was also on thecall yesterday with some folks
in Salt Lake City and the firstthing they said is they were
just in Boise and they said youknow, downtown Salt Lake doesn't
feel like Boise, we don't havea sense of place.
And they brought up eightstreet.
And they brought up they saidhow did this happen?
And I, and I, and, and and Isaid it happened because we had
(12:55):
leadership and vision.
So anyway, I really wanted toget that on here.
When, when, when did you so?
You say when you ran for mayor,political aspirations of
becoming the governor and beingthe CEO of the state and running
it was not there.
When did that tell me how itevolved?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Ironically, after we got Boise established and
rolling, a delegation came to mein my second term and they said
the first congressionaldistrict seat is opening, it's
yours, you should run forCongress.
And I said, I mean, you'vehonored me by even suggesting
(13:34):
that.
And they said and we won'toppose you, there'll be no
primary, this is going to beyours.
And I said thank you so much, Ineed to think about this.
They came on a Friday and Isaid Thank you so much, I need
to think about this.
They came on a Friday and theysaid man, I'll tell you.
On Monday.
And so the Russian circus wasin town and they played at Boise
State.
So here I am with Patricia andwith Heather and Jeff, the
(13:55):
little kids sitting up there,and I'm not taking in anything
of that Russian circus, I'mplaying this whole thing around.
And so on Monday they came backand I said, once again, I have
to thank you for even suggestingthis, but I'm going to pass,
it's not right, I just want tokeep rolling here.
(14:17):
And so they were very surprised.
It's like come on, where's thehungry politician?
I said no, I'm good, thank you.
I say that, Tommy, because thenthe next cycle Steve Sims
unexpectedly announces hisretirement and the US Senate
seat is open, I announced forthat, had I run for Congress
(14:42):
just two years before.
I couldn't do it.
What set that up?
And so then I become a USSenator and I said the Senate
needs a few good mayors.
And one of the things I did wasto stop these unfunded federal
mandates where the federalgovernment said thou shalt do
this, and it strapped states,counties and cities with all
(15:07):
these mandates that they had topay for themselves.
We stopped it.
My partner was John Glenn, soyou got a Republican and a.
Democrat man, John Glenn.
This wonderful man and Istarted receiving literally keys
to the city of mayorsthroughout the United States.
Wow, A few hundred keys.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
It was really cool how did you enjoy your time back
there.
That's a big change.
It's a big change.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
It was a big change.
I loved it.
There was intellectualstimulation because of the
Senate, a lot of good people.
I didn't see the dark side thatyou see in movies.
But again I reached across theaisle, you know, john Glenn,
when I did the Clean Water Act,bob Carey of Nebraska was my
(15:59):
partner.
But I was also on the SenateArmed Services Committee, which
was a tremendous honor tosupport our men and women in
military, and I took it uponmyself to go to the hot spots.
You may have seen the movieBlack Hawk Down, oh yeah.
So 10 days after those rangershad been murdered and dragged
(16:20):
through the streets, I was thereas the only senator, but I
wanted to see what was takingplace.
I flew that route, the sameroute that the helicopters flew.
Then I said to the US forces Isaid I need to go see the
Pakistanis.
They said you know, that'soutside the green zone.
I said absolutely, but I needto do that.
(16:40):
That's why I'm here.
So we took this caravan to dothat.
That's why I'm here.
So we took this caravan 50caliber machine guns on the back
, the sidewalks were filled 10deep with angry, angry Somalis.
And here we go, I meet with thePakistanis Five days after I
left, the caravan I physicallyrode in was ambushed, but that's
(17:01):
how I could support our men andwomen.
Now I will tell you this.
There were 55 Marines there,the MEU Marine Expeditionary
Unit.
Well, after I got back, it wasannounced that the United States
was stopping all of itsrelations with Somalia.
The embassy is closed, allpersonnel are out.
(17:25):
Madeleine Albright, secretaryof State, comes and testifies
before the Armed ServicesCommittee and it's stated that
everybody is out.
I start pressing her.
Does that mean all militarypersonnel are out?
Oh, yes, sir, senator.
Yes, sir, I said well, let meprobe a little further.
What about the Marines 55.
(17:47):
Well, when they say, well, youknow that you've got them.
You've got them.
And so I pressed and I said whyare they there?
And she said well, sir, thereare reasons.
I said then explain shecouldn't.
So Sam Nunn, who is the chairof armed services, we get
together and he goes.
Ok, dirk, I know what you'rethinking.
(18:08):
You're going to introduce aresolution to pull them out
immediately.
I said, yes, I am Sam, and hegoes.
Then put me down as aco-sponsor and I'll go to the
floor with you.
We go to the floor.
We didn't even have to get to avote.
The State Department rescinded.
I get a call from General ShalaKashuvili, chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff, and he saysSenator, I need to thank you.
(18:29):
I couldn't bring my boys home.
They were going to be pickedoff one by one, but they're now
home.
If I may, can I fast forward?
Yeah, I'm Secretary of theInterior.
Some years later I go to anational park and there's a park
police ranger and he's got ablack um ribbon on his badge and
uh, he had kind of an attitude,you know.
(18:52):
And but then I said I know whatthe black ribbon stands for.
He goes well, what does thatstand for?
And I said that stands for thefact that you've lost comrades
in arms and he saw from me.
He said yes, he said we have.
And I said who were they?
He goes Arizona.
I said the 14 firefighters.
And he said that's correct.
And I said have you always beena park ranger?
(19:14):
He goes no, I'm a Marine.
I said where were you stationed?
He mentioned Mogadishu and Isaid oh, I was there.
And then suddenly his eyes getbig and he goes you're the one.
I said what do you mean?
You're the one that brought ushome.
And he teared up.
And two weeks later in the mailI got his anchor and eagle and
(19:40):
he said sir, this is to you.
Thank you for bringing us home.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So that's why I would go to the hot spots.
There are some God things thathappen that are not coincidence.
Is that where you develop?
Because I know you've been astaunch supporter.
It's one of your passions inlife.
Staunch supporter, it's one ofyour passions in life.
You probably can't see thosethings and be there and not then
(20:08):
have a life of service for ourmilitary and those that serve.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, I admire greatly these men and women who
put it on the line for us.
I mean, they put everything onthe line for us, and so it was
an honor to be armed services.
When I was faced with thechoice of running for governor
and leaving the US Senate,someone said how will you feel
if we go to war and you're nolonger in armed services?
(20:34):
And I said that would hurt.
But I leave the US Senate,become governor.
We go to war, but governor iscommander in chief of the
National Guard and the 116th isdeployed 4,300.
The largest deployment in Idahohistory.
Yeah, to have to get them ready.
(20:55):
We got them ready.
They had the entire province ofKirkuk.
Al Gayhart was the commandinggeneral.
Tommy, they did a magnificentjob and I don't know, maybe I'll
give you one more anecdotethere.
I love it.
So I'm their commander in chiefand I'm determined that I will
(21:16):
go because I'm the last humanhand they shook before they left
CONUS, continental UnitedStates.
I called Paul Revere, paulRevere and the Raiders, because
Paul Revere is from Caldwell.
I said, paul, would you put ona concert for the 116th because
they're leaving?
He goes hey, man, yeah, gov,when do you need this?
And I said I'll need it in 10days.
(21:38):
He goes wow, dude.
But anyway, he called the band.
They were all over the country,they all came.
They didn't charge a penny.
They came to Boise, we flewdown in a C-130.
And for six days, duringThanksgiving, we stayed with the
troops, because it takes sixdays for 4,000 people to get on
individual airplanes and fly.
Paul and his wife, sydney,stood with me in line.
(22:02):
We served the Thanksgivingdinner, for took us eight hours.
But anyway, they would oftensay, governor, will you come see
us?
I said absolutely so.
About two months later I'm setto have the Pentagon take me to
Iraq and I get a call that well,for security reasons, we need
(22:23):
to delay this by a week.
They kept delaying, delaying.
We couldn't tell anybody, youknow, at home because of
security.
So I knew they would not takeme.
So I called Steve Hanks ofWashington Group.
I know Steve well.
Steve's a good man.
Steve's a good man.
I said Steve, do you haveprojects in Iraq?
(22:43):
He goes we do Gov.
And I said you're gettingpeople in?
He goes, yes, sir.
I said OK, I want you to put meon your payroll for $1 and take
me to Iraq.
He said man, if you're serious,I can do it.
I said I'm serious, wow, sowe're ready to roll.
But the manifest goes in beforeany planes come in.
Well, the military looks at themanifest and here's my name
(23:05):
pops up.
Next thing I know, I get a callfrom Karl Rove.
Governor, what in the hell doyou think you're doing?
I said, karl, I'm going to gosee my troops.
He goes.
Don't you know how dangerousthat is, what they would do to
you in the most public, brutalfashion because of your rank?
I said, yes, carl, it's calledwar, but that's where you've
sent our troops.
(23:25):
I will go.
He goes, you do this and allhell will break loose.
I said, well, it's breakingbecause I'm going.
He hung up on me.
Two hours later you get a callfrom the Pentagon.
We're taking you.
So I go to Iraq.
And it was when I arrived.
Tommy, one of our convoys, the116th, was being hauled back in
(23:48):
smoldering.
The young kids were being airflighted out.
I mean, this was war and it wasincredible.
And it was incredible when wegot back, when I got back from
that visit to these troops, thecolonel had been assigned from
the Pentagon to keep me alive.
We landed at Andrews Air ForceBase.
(24:10):
And he said may I be candid?
I said about time.
And he said when I was given mymission, I thought this is
foolish, dangerous and no returnon investment.
But to see what it does formorale for an entire brigade
when their governor shows up, Iwill recommend that we lift the
embargo on governors.
And that's when it was lifted,wow.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So anyway, what a Turk are you writing a book?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
No, You're not going to.
I don't know, I don't know howto write a book.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
There's people that will help you.
You need to write a book.
What an incredible story,thanks.
What an incredible story Wasthe decision?
So you kind of spoke a littlebit to it, but when you came
back as governor, hard decisionfor you.
Or was that more of a CEOposition coming back?
(25:04):
It's a great job right.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
It's a wonderful job.
Wonderful job If you want toknow who you are and what you're
made of.
Become the CEO of a sovereignstate.
Yeah, but it was a toughdecision.
I was doing well in the Senate,I loved armed services, I loved
my assignments, I loved servingthe state of Idaho, but Phil
Bath, the incumbent governor atthe time, came to me and said
(25:30):
you need to come home and youneed to run for governor.
And I said we have wonderfulcandidates and he goes.
Their time is not yet.
He really pressed me.
That had an impact on me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I didn't know him, but he's an incredible guy from
everyone.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yes, Tough, tough, tough cookie.
Yeah, I've heard that too.
Oh my word Short temper,Everything about it.
Oh my word yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
So when you came back , what year was it that you came
back and became governor?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well, what would that have been?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
99?
, 99.
, yeah, yeah.
So and then that was anincredible ride, right?
You think of the state of Idahoand you go back to the 90s.
You know late 90s and all ofthe things you accomplished in a
short time there.
Talk about your time asgovernor.
You just told a great story ofthe troops.
(26:25):
What were the other significantaccomplishments during your
time.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Well, I mean, I put real emphasis on children.
Yeah, Both Patricia and I didPut in a third grade reading
initiative so that kids, youhave to be able to read by third
grade to have a success path.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I remember that focus .
I remember being so impressedbecause it was like, and that
was one of her passionsAbsolutely, and how involved she
was.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
She did so many wonderful things for children
throughout the state and she'sgotten nice accolades for it now
later, which is really cool,but I called it the generation
of the child, and it's so funny.
When we hit the millennial, Isent letters to every baby that
was born, and so, anyway, thiskid shows up in 2021, and he
(27:16):
said, hey, are you the governor?
That was, and I said, yeah, andhe goes.
I got a letter from you.
That's so cool, but we did alot of things.
The Native Americans Iacknowledge them as five
sovereigns.
I have good relations with themto this day.
Roads and bridges were aproblem, as you know, tommy, you
that have built so much.
(27:36):
And so I made this proposalbecause we were losing college
kids on holidays, when they'd gohome, on these roads, winter,
et cetera.
So I said we've got to changethis and so I made this proposal
, got it through the Senate, itgot over to the House and they
(27:59):
killed it.
The Senate, it got over to theHouse and they killed it.
The next morning, after they'dkilled my major initiative, the
media filled my office and I'dalready had a press conference
set up for methamphetamine,because I was tough on
methamphetamine, but there wereno questions on that.
They said how do you feel?
How do you feel that yourRepublican legislature just
(28:22):
killed your initiative on roadsand bridges?
I said well, I'll show you whatI'm going to do.
I said swing your cameras overto the desk.
So I go over and sit down at mydesk and all the cameras and
the microphones are put on that.
And I said now you know whatthis is.
This is the stack oflegislation that's passed, the
legislature.
All it needs is my signatureand it's the law of the land.
(28:45):
Let's see what we have.
And I read the top eight and Isaid my mother and father taught
me to understand and topractice the golden rule.
They've taught me sometimes youmust simply rule.
So here's what we're going todo with the top eight.
And I got out the veto stampand I smacked all eight of them.
(29:06):
I mean it sent shockwaves.
It was great drama and I saidnow y'all come back tomorrow
morning.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
How much of that was preplanned?
Did you have this idea, or wasit?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Well, the night before the night before, well,
we laid out all the legislationand we'd say, all right, I'll do
this one, I'll do that one, youknow.
And anyway, I said, come backtomorrow.
The next date will also receivethe red ink.
Until they understand.
Cooperation and communicationmiraculously taught me, they
resurrected my legislation.
It ultimately did 57 projectsthroughout the state over the
(29:39):
years and ITD and IdahoTransportation Department and
the state police say it nowsaves at least 88 to 100 lives
per year.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Who was your chief of staff?
Was it Jason?
During?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
this, not at that point.
It started off with Jeff Malman.
Yeah, jeff Yep.
And then Phil Reberger and thenBrian Whitlock.
Yeah, I've had great staff.
I love all my staff.
You've had great staff.
Yeah, jeff Yep.
And then Phil Reberger and thenBrian.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Whitlock yeah, I've had great staff.
I love all my staff.
You've had great staff, yeah.
So you're clipping along andthen you're asked to be part of
the administration.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, can I add one more thing before I left as
governor?
Yeah, the other thing that wasleft undone that needed to be
corrected.
We did not have a state veterancemetery, and so once again, I
said to legislature at thatparticular year nobody's going
home until you appropriate thefunds for this.
We may be the only statewithout a state veteran cemetery
(30:34):
, so we may be last, but we'llalso be one of the best, and
you're not going home until weget this rolling.
And so we got it.
And now I encourage everybodyto go to the Idaho State
Veterans Cemetery.
It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
It's magnificent, isn't it Magnificent?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
We're the only one with two tiers.
It's magnificent.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I mean, it's just, it's sacred, and again.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I didn't know that.
I mean you need to write a book, and that's my goal.
There's just so much.
I'm glad you mentioned that.
So right now there'sappointments with President
(31:13):
Trump coming in and it's a bigdeal.
I'm appreciating now in lifehow big of a deal it is to be a
secretary and lead one of thesedepartments.
When you were called byPresident Bush, how was that?
I mean, I remember it when ithappened and I thought, oh, this
is a big deal.
But now, looking back, I mean Ijust and I think this has been
(31:35):
great to kind of chronologue oh,thanks, it's an incredible
story, but tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, I got a call one day from the White House
would you like to meet with thepresident?
I said yes, I would.
Can you be here tomorrow?
I said no, I can't, and it'sbecause we had Idaho National
Guard operations taking placeand that was my priority.
I'm not going to turn my backon the troops for another agenda
(32:01):
.
But they were quiet and theysaid, well, when can you be here
?
And I said I can be there infive days.
More silence and they said, allright.
So anyway, nothing is saidabout any appointment.
It's just you're going to meetthe president.
I get to Washington DC on thatday.
And I called them and I said,ok, I'm in town, I want you to
know that.
C on that day, and I called themand I said, okay, I'm in town,
(32:22):
I want you to know that.
And they said, perfect.
They said, listen, thepresident wants to see you at 11
.
And then throughout the day,the vice president wants to talk
to you, andy Card, chief ofstaff, and then Carl Rovland
speak to you.
And I thought, well, this isgoing to be an interesting day,
a lot of discussion.
11 o'clock, I'm shown into theOval Office and you know the
setting, the fireplace where thetwo chairs, where the president
(32:42):
always sits.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I've seen it on TV.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah.
So anyway, there's my chair,but also on the couch is Vice
President Cheney, andy Card andKarl Rove.
I thought well, they pulledthem all together.
So anyway, president Bushwelcomes me, you know, and we
sit down in front of thefireplace and then he peppers me
with questions for 20 minutes.
I mean, they call him theinterrupter in chief and he just
(33:06):
boom, boom, boom and I'mresponding and then he suddenly
says I want you to do it, yes orno?
And I had to play back.
What did I just say that hewants me to do?
And then I realized that,opening at interior, that he
wants me to do.
And then I realized that,opening at interior, he wants me
to do it yes or no.
And, tommy, again, I know theexpectation when anyone, any
(33:34):
young person, is asked to servetheir nation, there's only one
answer it's yes.
And I feel that's for all of us.
And I'd just been asked toserve my nation.
So I said yes.
And he says great, grabs myhand, shakes it, pulls out his
schedule, he says we'll announceit today.
Well, cheney jumps up, rovejumps up, they want to do trial
balloons for a few days and hegoes no, can you be back here at
(33:57):
4.30?
I said yes.
He said good, we'll announce at5.
I walk out of of the office, Iborrow one of their phones and I
call patricia.
I said you better watch thenews tonight.
I mean, that's how fast this isrolling.
What was bush like?
Wonderful, um, warm, humorousand and very intelligent?
Uh, the cabinet meetings.
(34:19):
He was in charge.
No paperwork, he just.
And he would.
Unfortunately, that's notwhat's portrayed by the press.
Yeah, but boy, in thosesettings you knew who was in
charge.
So, anyway, I walk back.
The next time I walk into theOval Office, it's just with
myself, george W and the entirenational international media,
(34:42):
and he says this will be mynominee for Secretary of the
Interior.
Wow, same day, yep.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
And I've never talked to you about this, but what was
the experience like?
And I've never talked to youabout this, but what was the
experience like?
Because I remember when ithappened and I remember thinking
I guess I knew you a little bit, but not, I mean, I'm like this
is, like you know, kind ofcapstone of your career, where
you were at your time andservice.
Did you enjoy it and what wasit like?
(35:14):
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I had 72,000 employees the day I started.
I was the only new hire and Igot 72,000 employees.
We spanned 14 time zones.
You have 20% of the UnitedStates.
It was wonderful.
And then I took all of theexperiences from the Senate and
(35:36):
of being governor, combined themthat I knew how to run a big
organization and I knew theissues quite well.
So I really enjoyed it.
We did so many different thingsand I guess I'd give you this
example my first budget under myadministration, $18 billion,
(35:59):
and I've been in the officeprobably six months and the
budget committee of thedepartment I had inherited,
including a wonderful, wonderfulindividual who she thought she
should have been named secretary, and then it's her team and OK,
but you embrace, and so, anyway, you present your budget to the
(36:22):
Office of Management Budget.
They whack it.
It goes back and forth four orfive rounds, boom, boom, they
whack it, you adjust.
Anyway, the final submission isto be in a letter format and
it's like midnight on thatWednesday.
So at 9.30 pm on that Wednesdaythey invite me in.
They said, mr Secretary, yourletter is ready.
(36:45):
I said, thank you very much.
I walk in.
They're all sitting thereexpecting me to sign that letter
.
I read it.
It's five pages.
I read page one.
Page two set it down and I saidI want to say something.
For whatever reason, theplanets aligned and I was named
secretary.
I can't explain it, but I'm thesecretary and therefore I have
(37:08):
to be the secretary.
In the time I've been here,I've come to respect every one
of you and appreciate yourpassion, your dedication to the
country and to this department.
But I will not sign this letter.
This is why you've had a badbudget every year you've been
here and I will not be a partyto it.
Well, I shocked them all.
I mean, it's like the newquarterback that doesn't run
(37:30):
that same play.
And I said here's what I want.
To their credit, they took goodnotes At 11.30.
And I said here's what I want.
To their credit, they took goodnotes At 11.30 pm.
They called me back in here'syour letter.
And they thought I had justsacrificed my future because the
new guy doesn't know how toplay the game and this is going
(37:53):
to really hurt this department.
I read the five pages.
I signed it.
I said thank you very much.
It's delivered before midnightto the White House.
What's the outcome?
All nine bureaus got the bestbudget they had had ever it.
Just they thought what in theworld?
So they called officemanagement, they said what gives
, and they said this guy'sdifferent, because with all of
(38:17):
the departments we whack you andyou try to placate us.
This guy came back at the 11thhour and said no, no, no, I told
you day one what I needed andwhy, and I will produce if
you'll give me the tools I'masking for.
They said that was novel.
They said let's try it.
Well, guess what?
The new little quarterback.
Suddenly everybody, 72,000people, said there's our leader
(38:40):
and I could make him go.
Wow, unbelievable, fun, fun.
Yeah, but you're putting it onthe line.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I'm going to get to some personal stuff now.
What does the country mean toyou, United States of America?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I think it's the greatest country in the world.
I think it is the beacon offreedom, of inspiration and of
hope for people throughout theworld, as well as our own
citizens.
But it is not without fault andit's not without fractures.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
You've got grandkids.
Yes, when you look at theirfuture in the country, what do
you tell them?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I take them to different events that are both
historic but inspiring, andencourage them that this is the
United States, this is Idaho.
You can be very proud of that,but you need to be part of that,
you need to contribute to it,you need to do your part.
We all need to contribute toour future and the well-being.
(39:51):
If you see things that are notright, it's good to speak up.
In fact, it's good to speak up.
In fact, it's expected.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Go to Idaho now.
It's a great state.
Yeah, the people, the heritage.
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
We have a beautiful history, but what I say, tommy,
is we're still wholesome.
Yeah, my measure are the youngpeople.
And when you go into thegrocery stores, you know you go
into Albertsons and you've gotsomebody that's helping you with
the bags, or they're shaggingthe carts out there and you say,
hey, good job, you know they'repushing it through the snow,
(40:30):
they went and got all the carts.
Oh, thank you, sir, but it's myjob.
Our young people are stillwholesome.
You go to the car washes.
They smile at you, they're notsullen.
You look at what the kids aredoing at the universities and
colleges.
Gosh, I was invited recently togo over to the College of Idaho
(40:52):
and to speak at Jim Everett'sclass.
Man, what a wonderful group ofpeople.
Many of them were on the teamsyou know the girls' volleyball,
the boys' baseball, the football, the questions they had, and
yet and Jim has them do this butevery one of them wrote me a
thank you note for coming.
(41:13):
And then I get this stack ofthese thank you notes
handwritten by these students.
You know, and what ScottGreen's doing up there at the
University of Idaho, what BoiseState, idaho State, I mean NNU,
you know, we got the Y downthere in Rexburg.
I mean it's magnificent what'sgoing on.
(41:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Future is bright with our kids?
I think so, and we're keepingthem here, right?
I mean, I agree, our higher edCWI, everything that's going on.
We're kind of.
You know, you think of thefuture.
It is those kids, it's keepingthem here and it's having them
(41:57):
carry the torch right of whatthis place means and what
America means to them.
It's great.
You've had a few healthproblems.
Yeah, you're going through itright now I am.
I appreciate you being heretoday because I know you're
going through it.
Well, I appreciate that, tommy.
(42:18):
How's that been for a guy likeyou?
That's just always.
I think we all kind of take ourhealth a little bit for granted
.
I mean, I do, I know, and thenyou go through something.
You're like, oh, this may notgo on forever and I need to.
Does it change you a little bit?
Oh, sure.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
I mean, nobody wants to be told they have cancer,
yeah, and then I had to dealwith that, the family had to
deal with that.
But then we discussed it and wedecided that if something good
can come from this, that wouldbe a blessing.
So we went public and just said, all right, I have cancer.
(42:58):
But may I use this as asituation to encourage everybody
go get tested, stay current andstay vigilant in your own
health care needs.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Dirk, that is such like you, though I mean you know
I got chills when you said thatbecause I mean you know, I mean
I'm just.
I mean got chills when you saidthat because I mean you, you're
just a servant.
So even in your time ofgreatest need, where you hear
those words, you have cancer.
One of the first things you goto is how can I use this for
good?
Yeah, it's unbelievable, it'sjust spires.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
The heck out of me.
Well, thank you, and it's beenso positive.
People, people, I mean I'll goin the grocery store, be out on
the street and say, hey, I'mgoing to be tested next month
because of what you did.
Editorials that talk about it.
I mean.
So if good comes from that,then something OK.
That's positive and it's alittle more than what we
(43:55):
originally thought.
I mean, I've now started twomore months of chemo.
One of the things that I'vesaid to the medical team is I
know that you assign physicaltherapy post-op.
I want it.
Pre-op, I said I'm going to bea NASA astronaut.
I got to get ready for themission and rather than outer
(44:18):
space, it's inner space, becausewe're going to have to have
extensive surgery.
So let's get ready.
And they said you know, that'sa great idea, so I'm getting
ready for the mission.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Well, even when you came in today, I said how are
you doing?
And you told me you had chemothis week and you said it just
makes me more productive.
You told me you had chemo thisweek and you said it just makes
me more productive.
Yeah, I'm able to sit and do mystuff.
And then you said I'm going toalways remember this.
You said and I don't sleep thatnight, so I get to be
productive all night long.
I mean, you're just aninspiration.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Oh, thanks.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Tommy, what has Patricia meant during this time
of life?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
She's my soulmate.
I couldn't ask for a morestaunch support person.
Through this she keeps myspirits up, but you know, when I
need something in the middle ofthe night she'll get it.
So she's tough.
(45:11):
But when we did go public withit and she saw it on TV or in
the newspapers, it hit her andshe cried and she says it's real
, isn't it?
And I said, yeah, it's real,it's what we're dealing with.
But she and the family havebeen so supportive and I keep
them all informed.
When we did the call withHuntsman Cancer Institute, which
(45:34):
is where I would work with StLuke's as well as Huntsman down
in Salt Lake City, the kids canbe on the call and hear what the
doctors say.
So I'm getting ready.
I intend to be a victor, not avictim, of this dang thing.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Ben, I don't know if it's possible to express how
much you mean to this place, butthank you.
Thank you for a life of serviceand an attitude of it's just.
It's so remarkable.
I hope you know, and I hope youknow how many people are
praying for you and love you andadmire you.
(46:14):
You're just a living legend.
Thanks, tommy, and we'reblessed.
Because of you we walk thestreets of Boise.
We're blessed, I mean, we walkthis state and this country
because of men like you, womenthat serve and love this place.
So it's nice to stop and reflectwith you and I just can't tell
(46:37):
you thank you enough for yourservice and what you mean to us.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Well, what a wonderful thing for you to say
Thank you.
I mean that touches my heart.
And two, let me thank you allthe things you have done.
I mean things you touch are tohelp others, and you make it.
You have enhanced our qualityof life.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
We just feel I'm going to tell a story from a
couple of weeks ago.
You know the Operation MilitaryBlessings thing.
I mean we're going to have Tomon later today, but you're just
in your hands, are everywhereand you know the second.
There's a need, you're there.
I hope any closing words forpeople who may be listening that
(47:20):
may inspire them to maybe domore or be better, anything you
would tell our listeners of Idon't know, just kind of closing
remarks, sure.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Can I first thank you for your support of Operation
Military Blessings?
Absolutely, I first thank youfor your support of Operation
Military Blessings.
I mean this is helping theyoungest and the most freshmen
of our military that are on foodstamps, that just need help.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
It's sad.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
It's sad, but thanks for what you're doing, and Tom
Wessall is doing a magnificentjob and Chuck Winder is going to
be a key part of that as well.
What I would say is this Nevergive up hope and know that you
can make a difference.
And if you have an idea in you,something planted that idea and
(48:12):
when others may say it's not agood idea, but you have it.
You may not listen to those andif it's positive, pursue it.
And also take time to listen toone another.
In Home Depot, the young manwho was checking me out and he
(48:33):
said oh, you're the formergovernor, Can I ask you?
And I made sure I took the timeto answer his question and look
him in the eye and just I wouldsay that to everybody.
I've said if you want a promiseof a bright future, look into
the eyes of a child, becausethey only know hope and
(48:53):
happiness, but let's make sureit becomes reality as they
mature and that we do our job toturn it over to them and then
say your prayers at night.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
I love it Of all the things you are.
You're kind and you're good,and everyone who's around you is
better because of you.
So thank you, governor, forbeing here, love you, praying
for you, thank you, that's what.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
I need.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
You're going to beat this like you beat everything
else.
Thank you, thank you, god blessyou, thanks everybody.
Today on the Ever Onward podcast, we have Governor
Dirk Kempthorne.
He is truly a living legend inIdaho, has served this community
, our state and this country.
It's going to be so wonderfulto catch up with him and talk
with him about all of the thingsthat he is doing and has done
for the state.
Graduated from the Universityof Idaho with a degree in
(00:25):
political science in 1975.
He was a governor of IdahoBefore that was the mayor of
Boise and we talk a little bitabout that and his vision and
change for the city of Boise.
He served as a senator in theUnited States Senate before
coming back and being governorand ultimately served as the
secretary of the interior underGeorge Bush.
Most importantly, this guy isone of the greatest leaders,
(00:50):
kind, wonderful men, humanbeings on the planet and it'll
be an honor to catch up withGovernor Kempthorne today and
talk about how he's doing.
This is going to be fun today.
(01:10):
I appreciate it.
I'm really excited.
I've admired you for so longand I don't, is it?
Secretary governor?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'm back to governor, you're back to governor, but
I'm also Dirk.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I know.
But when you've been mayor ofBoise, governor awesome dirk, I
know.
But when you've been mayorboise, you're governor kemp
thorn, which is what I, that'swhat I, and then you know.
And then secretary um, you know, I was reading, getting ready
for this, your bio and I just Idon't know that there's anyone
I've ever had on that's got thedepth of leadership and
(01:44):
experience.
I want to start with a quickstory, governor.
We did a little bit of work indowntown Boise and this was when
you were the Secretary of theInterior and you came back and
gave a speech and I never heardyour discussion of Boise,
because you have so muchleadership and history and
you've done so many things thatyou spent an hour at it was a
(02:09):
city club or something talkingabout the history of when you
are responsible for Boise beingwhat it is, so in the, in a
storied career of like making animpact in the nation, as the
state.
But I really today I can't waitto dive into everything because
(02:31):
you've done so much to affectthis place and so it's an honor
to have you on.
Thank you so much.
Well, may I reciprocate.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, it's an honor to be on and what you've done,
Tommy, I mean from an emergencyroom physician where you have
helped people in crisis, you'vebrought them back and then
you've gone on and you now havedone so many things to make this
a great place to live in Boiseand in Idaho.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Well, you're kind, but you're one of my heroes, oh,
bless your heart.
One of my heroes, thank you,and so I'm really glad to have
you on.
Everyone knows you that listensto this, everyone knows what
you've done.
But I want to, if you thinkback now on, can we go back to
the Boise days?
Sure, because I want, forpeople who haven't heard the
(03:18):
story of 8th Street and visionand what you did, can we start
there?
Absolutely, absolutely,absolutely, because there's so
many things.
I in preparation again.
I thought I could go.
You know we only have an hour,so I want to make sure I get it
all in, but I think it's a storymany people haven't heard.
Can you start there for us?
(03:38):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Boise, which we now know as this beautiful, thriving
, award-winning city, was notthat.
I was 33 when I first thoughtof running for mayor and I went
to some of the best politicalthinkers and the message that
they told me was that's thedumbest idea we've ever heard of
(04:00):
.
Nobody's ever been successful.
Nobody's turned around Boiseit's known as quote Lebanon,
because it's just destroyed.
It's nothing but gravel parkinglots.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
They had torn everything down right.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
They'd torn magnificent treasures down.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So great old historic buildings and the idea was to
do a mall right.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
They wanted to put a big box, a one million square
foot box, in the heart ofdowntown and all of the
retailers said we're not coming.
So anyway, I took the adviceand ran for mayor, because they
said if you ever want to run foranything statewide, you'll
never be successful.
I wasn't going to run statewide.
(04:42):
My purpose I had two littlechildren, patricia, and I had
these two little kids, heatherand Jeff, and if I could do
something that in the communitywhere those two little kids, our
daughter and son, had been born, to get the city to the
potential that it was supposedto be, that was my motivation.
I and we started turning thingsaround.
(05:05):
My first trip, tommy, was toNew York City and I met with the
retailers and they said ifyou're serious, we'll come, but
if it's another false start, wewon't touch you.
For 20 years you are the mostunderserved retail facility
community in the United States.
(05:26):
And I said we're serious.
And I had one Saturday.
I went downtown I think it wasactually Sunday morning and I
just walked around that deserteddowntown and I said a prayer
that we could find the way thatthis would become the city that
it should be, was intended to be, and then I sat down on one of
(05:51):
the telephone poles.
It was just, you know that's howthey lined out the gravel
parking lots and Chuck Windercame up, oh wow, and Chuck sat
next to me.
He said can I join you?
I said absolutely, and we just,we commiserated, and then we
said a prayer together and butanyway, so we then went ahead
and released.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I was going to tell you I found when I was, when we
were doing 8th and Main, I foundsomeone sent me and I wish I
could find the file, if I can'tI'll send it to you VHS video
camera and had gone through thecity, probably during this time
in early days of you know, andtook video of the streets and
it's shocking.
(06:31):
I mean it's like, oh mygoodness it was nothing there,
nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, it's funny, tommy, what I went through when
I was running for mayor, becauseI took on the establishment.
I mean, I took on theincumbents and those folks that
were downtown.
And I remember one time I wascoming and I turned the corner
there on Idaho and I startedwalking up and there was a
shopkeeper who was out sweepinghis sidewalk and he immediately
went inside and pulled thecurtain down.
It was like the Old West, youknow.
(07:03):
Here came Gary Cooper.
So, anyway, it was like the oldWest.
Here came Gary Cooper.
Anyway, it was rough and tumble,but once the election was over,
those who supported me wantedme to fire everybody in the
redevelopment agency and I said,no, we're not going to do that,
because if the first thing I dois to remove those folks, then
(07:24):
what I've done is establish ourcritics who will do everything
to make sure we fail.
And I said before, we can havebrick and mortar, we need to
build cooperation.
And so I blended the two, Itied our fates together and
that's how we began to moveforward.
And it was, you know, step bystep.
(07:46):
Winston Moore, yeah, 8th StreetMarketplace was the one bright
spot and that's where Iannounced my candidacy for mayor
and I said Winston, may I usethis?
And he said absolutely, we'vebecome dear friends.
You know, he's 100 years oldnow, I know.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And that guy he's just.
It wasn't another hero exampleof just a community guy who just
never stopped, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
But I would, I'd call people, I'd call Larry Leisure.
I said, Larry, I'm going to goto the legislature and welcome
them to their capital city,because everybody was anti-Boise
.
And I said, no, no, this istheir capital city.
And I said, but I need to knowthe Alexander building, will it
be completed?
Will you do this?
I can't, even if you're 93%,I'm not going to mention it.
(08:30):
He goes no, sir mayor, you tellthem it will be done.
And we did it.
And that was the beginning tostart, begin to build, the fact
that things are happening andwe're going to build this thing
are happening and we're going tobuild this thing.
And then, time after time, Iremember at 5 am, going down to
the Grove, which again wasnothing but the gravel parking
(08:51):
lot, 5 am, I had the parksdepartment dig a hole with a
backhoe and then put the dirtback because I was going to
drive it at a press conference.
But I didn't need the dirtsoftened up and I said this is
going to be the center of ourcommunity.
We had the press conference,then we went out where now Boise
Town Square is, and same thing,and it was a cold, cold morning
(09:14):
.
And here's everybody there atthe press conference and I said
you know, they said it'd be acold day in Boise before we ever
build a mall.
Well, it's cold, yeah, andwe're going to build it.
And I'll tell you what once weopened that, we had a soft
opening the night before, wherethe Philharmonic performed.
All the stores were there,nothing was to be sold.
That night we had a dinner andit was a celebration, a
(09:38):
celebration of the hope anddreams.
Do you remember, tommy?
It was tradition for people totake bus trips to Salt Lake City
for Christmas shopping, andthat stopped.
Now we have this beautiful,award-winning city.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Did you all?
I mean, I'm trying to think so.
You're 33, you're doing this.
You're doing it for the rightreasons, authentically
tremendous leader.
Did you know that you had theability, the vision, the ability
to inspire people?
Then Was it God-given?
Tell me a little bit aboutwhere this comes from.
I appreciate the question.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I am a person of faith.
No, I can't tell you that itwas that.
I just knew this would happen.
I was motivated.
Yeah, there were times, though,that, with my wonderful wife
Patricia, she'd have to talk meback and say come on, you can do
this.
That's why you're here, that'swhy you've been picked to do
(10:38):
this thing.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
You guys have been partners in crime for a long
time.
Yeah, about 48 years.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Where did you meet her University of Idaho.
Okay, yep.
And ultimately we got marriedon top of Moscow Mountain at
sunrise, because they saidthere's no more beautiful
cathedral than God's creationoutdoors.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
And you've been married for 48 years, 48 years.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That's awesome Two kids, seven wonderful grandkids.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Wow, wow, I'm going to bounce around a little bit.
Sure.
So I did want to get on thispodcast, the History of Boise,
because I think you must walkaround downtown.
I was there last night.
You probably know I had dinnerlast night with John Sununu oh
good, the governor of NewHampshire downtown.
(11:27):
But just walking arounddowntown now, what emotions do
you feel as you walk around andsee what it has become?
Joy, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I've said to Patricia on different occasions, if we'd
never been here and I justpulled into Boise, I said I
would call you and say I foundthe place where we want to live.
I mean, it's a vibrant downtown.
And I'll tell you what's reallyspecial too is you know, it's
like Alex LeBeau and Jason Ronk.
I had coffee with them thisweek but early morning hours in
(12:01):
downtown Boise, when theprovisioning trucks are pulling
up and the vegetables arearriving, it's bright, it's
cheerful, it's fresh, you have acup of coffee.
I mean, it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I mean the streetscapes, yes, the trees, I
mean it's just.
You know, last night was aThursday night, it was just
vibrant down there and I playeda little small role.
I walked by our building, wedid, but like so much came
before me and there's so muchvision that people I mean that
(12:34):
8th Street and I was also on thecall yesterday with some folks
in Salt Lake City and the firstthing they said is they were
just in Boise and they said youknow, downtown Salt Lake doesn't
feel like Boise, we don't havea sense of place.
And they brought up eightstreet.
And they brought up they saidhow did this happen?
And I, and I, and, and and Isaid it happened because we had
(12:55):
leadership and vision.
So anyway, I really wanted toget that on here.
When, when, when did you so?
You say when you ran for mayor,political aspirations of
becoming the governor and beingthe CEO of the state and running
it was not there.
When did that tell me how itevolved?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Ironically, after we got Boise established and
rolling, a delegation came to mein my second term and they said
the first congressionaldistrict seat is opening, it's
yours, you should run forCongress.
And I said, I mean, you'vehonored me by even suggesting
(13:34):
that.
And they said and we won'toppose you, there'll be no
primary, this is going to beyours.
And I said thank you so much, Ineed to think about this.
They came on a Friday and Isaid Thank you so much, I need
to think about this.
They came on a Friday and theysaid man, I'll tell you.
On Monday.
And so the Russian circus wasin town and they played at Boise
State.
So here I am with Patricia andwith Heather and Jeff, the
(13:55):
little kids sitting up there,and I'm not taking in anything
of that Russian circus, I'mplaying this whole thing around.
And so on Monday they came backand I said, once again, I have
to thank you for even suggestingthis, but I'm going to pass,
it's not right, I just want tokeep rolling here.
(14:17):
And so they were very surprised.
It's like come on, where's thehungry politician?
I said no, I'm good, thank you.
I say that, Tommy, because thenthe next cycle Steve Sims
unexpectedly announces hisretirement and the US Senate
seat is open, I announced forthat, had I run for Congress
(14:42):
just two years before.
I couldn't do it.
What set that up?
And so then I become a USSenator and I said the Senate
needs a few good mayors.
And one of the things I did wasto stop these unfunded federal
mandates where the federalgovernment said thou shalt do
this, and it strapped states,counties and cities with all
(15:07):
these mandates that they had topay for themselves.
We stopped it.
My partner was John Glenn, soyou got a Republican and a.
Democrat man, John Glenn.
This wonderful man and Istarted receiving literally keys
to the city of mayorsthroughout the United States.
Wow, A few hundred keys.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
It was really cool how did you enjoy your time back
there.
That's a big change.
It's a big change.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
It was a big change.
I loved it.
There was intellectualstimulation because of the
Senate, a lot of good people.
I didn't see the dark side thatyou see in movies.
But again I reached across theaisle, you know, john Glenn,
when I did the Clean Water Act,bob Carey of Nebraska was my
(15:59):
partner.
But I was also on the SenateArmed Services Committee, which
was a tremendous honor tosupport our men and women in
military, and I took it uponmyself to go to the hot spots.
You may have seen the movieBlack Hawk Down, oh yeah.
So 10 days after those rangershad been murdered and dragged
(16:20):
through the streets, I was thereas the only senator, but I
wanted to see what was takingplace.
I flew that route, the sameroute that the helicopters flew.
Then I said to the US forces Isaid I need to go see the
Pakistanis.
They said you know, that'soutside the green zone.
I said absolutely, but I needto do that.
(16:40):
That's why I'm here.
So we took this caravan to dothat.
That's why I'm here.
So we took this caravan 50caliber machine guns on the back
, the sidewalks were filled 10deep with angry, angry Somalis.
And here we go, I meet with thePakistanis Five days after I
left, the caravan I physicallyrode in was ambushed, but that's
(17:01):
how I could support our men andwomen.
Now I will tell you this.
There were 55 Marines there,the MEU Marine Expeditionary
Unit.
Well, after I got back, it wasannounced that the United States
was stopping all of itsrelations with Somalia.
The embassy is closed, allpersonnel are out.
(17:25):
Madeleine Albright, secretaryof State, comes and testifies
before the Armed ServicesCommittee and it's stated that
everybody is out.
I start pressing her.
Does that mean all militarypersonnel are out?
Oh, yes, sir, senator.
Yes, sir, I said well, let meprobe a little further.
What about the Marines 55.
(17:47):
Well, when they say, well, youknow that you've got them.
You've got them.
And so I pressed and I said whyare they there?
And she said well, sir, thereare reasons.
I said then explain shecouldn't.
So Sam Nunn, who is the chairof armed services, we get
together and he goes.
Ok, dirk, I know what you'rethinking.
(18:08):
You're going to introduce aresolution to pull them out
immediately.
I said, yes, I am Sam, and hegoes.
Then put me down as aco-sponsor and I'll go to the
floor with you.
We go to the floor.
We didn't even have to get to avote.
The State Department rescinded.
I get a call from General ShalaKashuvili, chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff, and he saysSenator, I need to thank you.
(18:29):
I couldn't bring my boys home.
They were going to be pickedoff one by one, but they're now
home.
If I may, can I fast forward?
Yeah, I'm Secretary of theInterior.
Some years later I go to anational park and there's a park
police ranger and he's got ablack um ribbon on his badge and
uh, he had kind of an attitude,you know.
(18:52):
And but then I said I know whatthe black ribbon stands for.
He goes well, what does thatstand for?
And I said that stands for thefact that you've lost comrades
in arms and he saw from me.
He said yes, he said we have.
And I said who were they?
He goes Arizona.
I said the 14 firefighters.
And he said that's correct.
And I said have you always beena park ranger?
(19:14):
He goes no, I'm a Marine.
I said where were you stationed?
He mentioned Mogadishu and Isaid oh, I was there.
And then suddenly his eyes getbig and he goes you're the one.
I said what do you mean?
You're the one that brought ushome.
And he teared up.
And two weeks later in the mailI got his anchor and eagle and
(19:40):
he said sir, this is to you.
Thank you for bringing us home.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So that's why I would go to the hot spots.
There are some God things thathappen that are not coincidence.
Is that where you develop?
Because I know you've been astaunch supporter.
It's one of your passions inlife.
Staunch supporter, it's one ofyour passions in life.
You probably can't see thosethings and be there and not then
(20:08):
have a life of service for ourmilitary and those that serve.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, I admire greatly these men and women who
put it on the line for us.
I mean, they put everything onthe line for us, and so it was
an honor to be armed services.
When I was faced with thechoice of running for governor
and leaving the US Senate,someone said how will you feel
if we go to war and you're nolonger in armed services?
(20:34):
And I said that would hurt.
But I leave the US Senate,become governor.
We go to war, but governor iscommander in chief of the
National Guard and the 116th isdeployed 4,300.
The largest deployment in Idahohistory.
Yeah, to have to get them ready.
(20:55):
We got them ready.
They had the entire province ofKirkuk.
Al Gayhart was the commandinggeneral.
Tommy, they did a magnificentjob and I don't know, maybe I'll
give you one more anecdotethere.
I love it.
So I'm their commander in chiefand I'm determined that I will
(21:16):
go because I'm the last humanhand they shook before they left
CONUS, continental UnitedStates.
I called Paul Revere, paulRevere and the Raiders, because
Paul Revere is from Caldwell.
I said, paul, would you put ona concert for the 116th because
they're leaving?
He goes hey, man, yeah, gov,when do you need this?
And I said I'll need it in 10days.
(21:38):
He goes wow, dude.
But anyway, he called the band.
They were all over the country,they all came.
They didn't charge a penny.
They came to Boise, we flewdown in a C-130.
And for six days, duringThanksgiving, we stayed with the
troops, because it takes sixdays for 4,000 people to get on
individual airplanes and fly.
Paul and his wife, sydney,stood with me in line.
(22:02):
We served the Thanksgivingdinner, for took us eight hours.
But anyway, they would oftensay, governor, will you come see
us?
I said absolutely so.
About two months later I'm setto have the Pentagon take me to
Iraq and I get a call that well,for security reasons, we need
(22:23):
to delay this by a week.
They kept delaying, delaying.
We couldn't tell anybody, youknow, at home because of
security.
So I knew they would not takeme.
So I called Steve Hanks ofWashington Group.
I know Steve well.
Steve's a good man.
Steve's a good man.
I said Steve, do you haveprojects in Iraq?
(22:43):
He goes we do Gov.
And I said you're gettingpeople in?
He goes, yes, sir.
I said OK, I want you to put meon your payroll for $1 and take
me to Iraq.
He said man, if you're serious,I can do it.
I said I'm serious, wow, sowe're ready to roll.
But the manifest goes in beforeany planes come in.
Well, the military looks at themanifest and here's my name
(23:05):
pops up.
Next thing I know, I get a callfrom Karl Rove.
Governor, what in the hell doyou think you're doing?
I said, karl, I'm going to gosee my troops.
He goes.
Don't you know how dangerousthat is, what they would do to
you in the most public, brutalfashion because of your rank?
I said, yes, carl, it's calledwar, but that's where you've
sent our troops.
(23:25):
I will go.
He goes, you do this and allhell will break loose.
I said, well, it's breakingbecause I'm going.
He hung up on me.
Two hours later you get a callfrom the Pentagon.
We're taking you.
So I go to Iraq.
And it was when I arrived.
Tommy, one of our convoys, the116th, was being hauled back in
(23:48):
smoldering.
The young kids were being airflighted out.
I mean, this was war and it wasincredible.
And it was incredible when wegot back, when I got back from
that visit to these troops, thecolonel had been assigned from
the Pentagon to keep me alive.
We landed at Andrews Air ForceBase.
(24:10):
And he said may I be candid?
I said about time.
And he said when I was given mymission, I thought this is
foolish, dangerous and no returnon investment.
But to see what it does formorale for an entire brigade
when their governor shows up, Iwill recommend that we lift the
embargo on governors.
And that's when it was lifted,wow.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So anyway, what a Turk are you writing a book?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
No, You're not going to.
I don't know, I don't know howto write a book.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
There's people that will help you.
You need to write a book.
What an incredible story,thanks.
What an incredible story Wasthe decision?
So you kind of spoke a littlebit to it, but when you came
back as governor, hard decisionfor you.
Or was that more of a CEOposition coming back?
(25:04):
It's a great job right.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
It's a wonderful job.
Wonderful job If you want toknow who you are and what you're
made of.
Become the CEO of a sovereignstate.
Yeah, but it was a toughdecision.
I was doing well in the Senate,I loved armed services, I loved
my assignments, I loved servingthe state of Idaho, but Phil
Bath, the incumbent governor atthe time, came to me and said
(25:30):
you need to come home and youneed to run for governor.
And I said we have wonderfulcandidates and he goes.
Their time is not yet.
He really pressed me.
That had an impact on me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I didn't know him, but he's an incredible guy from
everyone.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yes, Tough, tough, tough cookie.
Yeah, I've heard that too.
Oh my word Short temper,Everything about it.
Oh my word yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
So when you came back , what year was it that you came
back and became governor?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well, what would that have been?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
99?
, 99.
, yeah, yeah.
So and then that was anincredible ride, right?
You think of the state of Idahoand you go back to the 90s.
You know late 90s and all ofthe things you accomplished in a
short time there.
Talk about your time asgovernor.
You just told a great story ofthe troops.
(26:25):
What were the other significantaccomplishments during your
time.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Well, I mean, I put real emphasis on children.
Yeah, Both Patricia and I didPut in a third grade reading
initiative so that kids, youhave to be able to read by third
grade to have a success path.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I remember that focus .
I remember being so impressedbecause it was like, and that
was one of her passionsAbsolutely, and how involved she
was.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
She did so many wonderful things for children
throughout the state and she'sgotten nice accolades for it now
later, which is really cool,but I called it the generation
of the child, and it's so funny.
When we hit the millennial, Isent letters to every baby that
was born, and so, anyway, thiskid shows up in 2021, and he
(27:16):
said, hey, are you the governor?
That was, and I said, yeah, andhe goes.
I got a letter from you.
That's so cool, but we did alot of things.
The Native Americans Iacknowledge them as five
sovereigns.
I have good relations with themto this day.
Roads and bridges were aproblem, as you know, tommy, you
that have built so much.
(27:36):
And so I made this proposalbecause we were losing college
kids on holidays, when they'd gohome, on these roads, winter,
et cetera.
So I said we've got to changethis and so I made this proposal
, got it through the Senate, itgot over to the House and they
(27:59):
killed it.
The Senate, it got over to theHouse and they killed it.
The next morning, after they'dkilled my major initiative, the
media filled my office and I'dalready had a press conference
set up for methamphetamine,because I was tough on
methamphetamine, but there wereno questions on that.
They said how do you feel?
How do you feel that yourRepublican legislature just
(28:22):
killed your initiative on roadsand bridges?
I said well, I'll show you whatI'm going to do.
I said swing your cameras overto the desk.
So I go over and sit down at mydesk and all the cameras and
the microphones are put on that.
And I said now you know whatthis is.
This is the stack oflegislation that's passed, the
legislature.
All it needs is my signatureand it's the law of the land.
(28:45):
Let's see what we have.
And I read the top eight and Isaid my mother and father taught
me to understand and topractice the golden rule.
They've taught me sometimes youmust simply rule.
So here's what we're going todo with the top eight.
And I got out the veto stampand I smacked all eight of them.
(29:06):
I mean it sent shockwaves.
It was great drama and I saidnow y'all come back tomorrow
morning.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
How much of that was preplanned?
Did you have this idea, or wasit?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Well, the night before the night before, well,
we laid out all the legislationand we'd say, all right, I'll do
this one, I'll do that one, youknow.
And anyway, I said, come backtomorrow.
The next date will also receivethe red ink.
Until they understand.
Cooperation and communicationmiraculously taught me, they
resurrected my legislation.
It ultimately did 57 projectsthroughout the state over the
(29:39):
years and ITD and IdahoTransportation Department and
the state police say it nowsaves at least 88 to 100 lives
per year.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Who was your chief of staff?
Was it Jason?
During?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
this, not at that point.
It started off with Jeff Malman.
Yeah, jeff Yep.
And then Phil Reberger and thenBrian Whitlock.
Yeah, I've had great staff.
I love all my staff.
You've had great staff.
Yeah, jeff Yep.
And then Phil Reberger and thenBrian.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Whitlock yeah, I've had great staff.
I love all my staff.
You've had great staff, yeah.
So you're clipping along andthen you're asked to be part of
the administration.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, can I add one more thing before I left as
governor?
Yeah, the other thing that wasleft undone that needed to be
corrected.
We did not have a state veterancemetery, and so once again, I
said to legislature at thatparticular year nobody's going
home until you appropriate thefunds for this.
We may be the only statewithout a state veteran cemetery
(30:34):
, so we may be last, but we'llalso be one of the best, and
you're not going home until weget this rolling.
And so we got it.
And now I encourage everybodyto go to the Idaho State
Veterans Cemetery.
It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
It's magnificent, isn't it Magnificent?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
We're the only one with two tiers.
It's magnificent.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I mean, it's just, it's sacred, and again.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I didn't know that.
I mean you need to write a book, and that's my goal.
There's just so much.
I'm glad you mentioned that.
So right now there'sappointments with President
(31:13):
Trump coming in and it's a bigdeal.
I'm appreciating now in lifehow big of a deal it is to be a
secretary and lead one of thesedepartments.
When you were called byPresident Bush, how was that?
I mean, I remember it when ithappened and I thought, oh, this
is a big deal.
But now, looking back, I mean Ijust and I think this has been
(31:35):
great to kind of chronologue oh,thanks, it's an incredible
story, but tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, I got a call one day from the White House
would you like to meet with thepresident?
I said yes, I would.
Can you be here tomorrow?
I said no, I can't, and it'sbecause we had Idaho National
Guard operations taking placeand that was my priority.
I'm not going to turn my backon the troops for another agenda
(32:01):
.
But they were quiet and theysaid, well, when can you be here
?
And I said I can be there infive days.
More silence and they said, allright.
So anyway, nothing is saidabout any appointment.
It's just you're going to meetthe president.
I get to Washington DC on thatday.
And I called them and I said,ok, I'm in town, I want you to
know that.
C on that day, and I called themand I said, okay, I'm in town,
(32:22):
I want you to know that.
And they said, perfect.
They said, listen, thepresident wants to see you at 11
.
And then throughout the day,the vice president wants to talk
to you, andy Card, chief ofstaff, and then Carl Rovland
speak to you.
And I thought, well, this isgoing to be an interesting day,
a lot of discussion.
11 o'clock, I'm shown into theOval Office and you know the
setting, the fireplace where thetwo chairs, where the president
(32:42):
always sits.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I've seen it on TV.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah.
So anyway, there's my chair,but also on the couch is Vice
President Cheney, andy Card andKarl Rove.
I thought well, they pulledthem all together.
So anyway, president Bushwelcomes me, you know, and we
sit down in front of thefireplace and then he peppers me
with questions for 20 minutes.
I mean, they call him theinterrupter in chief and he just
(33:06):
boom, boom, boom and I'mresponding and then he suddenly
says I want you to do it, yes orno?
And I had to play back.
What did I just say that hewants me to do?
And then I realized that,opening at interior, that he
wants me to do.
And then I realized that,opening at interior, he wants me
to do it yes or no.
And, tommy, again, I know theexpectation when anyone, any
(33:34):
young person, is asked to servetheir nation, there's only one
answer it's yes.
And I feel that's for all of us.
And I'd just been asked toserve my nation.
So I said yes.
And he says great, grabs myhand, shakes it, pulls out his
schedule, he says we'll announceit today.
Well, cheney jumps up, rovejumps up, they want to do trial
balloons for a few days and hegoes no, can you be back here at
(33:57):
4.30?
I said yes.
He said good, we'll announce at5.
I walk out of of the office, Iborrow one of their phones and I
call patricia.
I said you better watch thenews tonight.
I mean, that's how fast this isrolling.
What was bush like?
Wonderful, um, warm, humorousand and very intelligent?
Uh, the cabinet meetings.
(34:19):
He was in charge.
No paperwork, he just.
And he would.
Unfortunately, that's notwhat's portrayed by the press.
Yeah, but boy, in thosesettings you knew who was in
charge.
So, anyway, I walk back.
The next time I walk into theOval Office, it's just with
myself, george W and the entirenational international media,
(34:42):
and he says this will be mynominee for Secretary of the
Interior.
Wow, same day, yep.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
And I've never talked to you about this, but what was
the experience like?
And I've never talked to youabout this, but what was the
experience like?
Because I remember when ithappened and I remember thinking
I guess I knew you a little bit, but not, I mean, I'm like this
is, like you know, kind ofcapstone of your career, where
you were at your time andservice.
Did you enjoy it and what wasit like?
(35:14):
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I had 72,000 employees the day I started.
I was the only new hire and Igot 72,000 employees.
We spanned 14 time zones.
You have 20% of the UnitedStates.
It was wonderful.
And then I took all of theexperiences from the Senate and
(35:36):
of being governor, combined themthat I knew how to run a big
organization and I knew theissues quite well.
So I really enjoyed it.
We did so many different thingsand I guess I'd give you this
example my first budget under myadministration, $18 billion,
(35:59):
and I've been in the officeprobably six months and the
budget committee of thedepartment I had inherited,
including a wonderful, wonderfulindividual who she thought she
should have been named secretary, and then it's her team and OK,
but you embrace, and so, anyway, you present your budget to the
(36:22):
Office of Management Budget.
They whack it.
It goes back and forth four orfive rounds, boom, boom, they
whack it, you adjust.
Anyway, the final submission isto be in a letter format and
it's like midnight on thatWednesday.
So at 9.30 pm on that Wednesdaythey invite me in.
They said, mr Secretary, yourletter is ready.
(36:45):
I said, thank you very much.
I walk in.
They're all sitting thereexpecting me to sign that letter
.
I read it.
It's five pages.
I read page one.
Page two set it down and I saidI want to say something.
For whatever reason, theplanets aligned and I was named
secretary.
I can't explain it, but I'm thesecretary and therefore I have
(37:08):
to be the secretary.
In the time I've been here,I've come to respect every one
of you and appreciate yourpassion, your dedication to the
country and to this department.
But I will not sign this letter.
This is why you've had a badbudget every year you've been
here and I will not be a partyto it.
Well, I shocked them all.
I mean, it's like the newquarterback that doesn't run
(37:30):
that same play.
And I said here's what I want.
To their credit, they took goodnotes At 11.30.
And I said here's what I want.
To their credit, they took goodnotes At 11.30 pm.
They called me back in here'syour letter.
And they thought I had justsacrificed my future because the
new guy doesn't know how toplay the game and this is going
(37:53):
to really hurt this department.
I read the five pages.
I signed it.
I said thank you very much.
It's delivered before midnightto the White House.
What's the outcome?
All nine bureaus got the bestbudget they had had ever it.
Just they thought what in theworld?
So they called officemanagement, they said what gives
, and they said this guy'sdifferent, because with all of
(38:17):
the departments we whack you andyou try to placate us.
This guy came back at the 11thhour and said no, no, no, I told
you day one what I needed andwhy, and I will produce if
you'll give me the tools I'masking for.
They said that was novel.
They said let's try it.
Well, guess what?
The new little quarterback.
Suddenly everybody, 72,000people, said there's our leader
(38:40):
and I could make him go.
Wow, unbelievable, fun, fun.
Yeah, but you're putting it onthe line.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I'm going to get to some personal stuff now.
What does the country mean toyou, United States of America?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I think it's the greatest country in the world.
I think it is the beacon offreedom, of inspiration and of
hope for people throughout theworld, as well as our own
citizens.
But it is not without fault andit's not without fractures.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
You've got grandkids.
Yes, when you look at theirfuture in the country, what do
you tell them?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I take them to different events that are both
historic but inspiring, andencourage them that this is the
United States, this is Idaho.
You can be very proud of that,but you need to be part of that,
you need to contribute to it,you need to do your part.
We all need to contribute toour future and the well-being.
(39:51):
If you see things that are notright, it's good to speak up.
In fact, it's good to speak up.
In fact, it's expected.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Go to Idaho now.
It's a great state.
Yeah, the people, the heritage.
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
We have a beautiful history, but what I say, tommy,
is we're still wholesome.
Yeah, my measure are the youngpeople.
And when you go into thegrocery stores, you know you go
into Albertsons and you've gotsomebody that's helping you with
the bags, or they're shaggingthe carts out there and you say,
hey, good job, you know they'repushing it through the snow,
(40:30):
they went and got all the carts.
Oh, thank you, sir, but it's myjob.
Our young people are stillwholesome.
You go to the car washes.
They smile at you, they're notsullen.
You look at what the kids aredoing at the universities and
colleges.
Gosh, I was invited recently togo over to the College of Idaho
(40:52):
and to speak at Jim Everett'sclass.
Man, what a wonderful group ofpeople.
Many of them were on the teamsyou know the girls' volleyball,
the boys' baseball, the football, the questions they had, and
yet and Jim has them do this butevery one of them wrote me a
thank you note for coming.
(41:13):
And then I get this stack ofthese thank you notes
handwritten by these students.
You know, and what ScottGreen's doing up there at the
University of Idaho, what BoiseState, idaho State, I mean NNU,
you know, we got the Y downthere in Rexburg.
I mean it's magnificent what'sgoing on.
(41:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Future is bright with our kids?
I think so, and we're keepingthem here, right?
I mean, I agree, our higher edCWI, everything that's going on.
We're kind of.
You know, you think of thefuture.
It is those kids, it's keepingthem here and it's having them
(41:57):
carry the torch right of whatthis place means and what
America means to them.
It's great.
You've had a few healthproblems.
Yeah, you're going through itright now I am.
I appreciate you being heretoday because I know you're
going through it.
Well, I appreciate that, tommy.
(42:18):
How's that been for a guy likeyou?
That's just always.
I think we all kind of take ourhealth a little bit for granted
.
I mean, I do, I know, and thenyou go through something.
You're like, oh, this may notgo on forever and I need to.
Does it change you a little bit?
Oh, sure.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
I mean, nobody wants to be told they have cancer,
yeah, and then I had to dealwith that, the family had to
deal with that.
But then we discussed it and wedecided that if something good
can come from this, that wouldbe a blessing.
So we went public and just said, all right, I have cancer.
(42:58):
But may I use this as asituation to encourage everybody
go get tested, stay current andstay vigilant in your own
health care needs.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Dirk, that is such like you, though I mean you know
I got chills when you said thatbecause I mean you know, I mean
I'm just.
I mean got chills when you saidthat because I mean you, you're
just a servant.
So even in your time ofgreatest need, where you hear
those words, you have cancer.
One of the first things you goto is how can I use this for
good?
Yeah, it's unbelievable, it'sjust spires.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
The heck out of me.
Well, thank you, and it's beenso positive.
People, people, I mean I'll goin the grocery store, be out on
the street and say, hey, I'mgoing to be tested next month
because of what you did.
Editorials that talk about it.
I mean.
So if good comes from that,then something OK.
That's positive and it's alittle more than what we
(43:55):
originally thought.
I mean, I've now started twomore months of chemo.
One of the things that I'vesaid to the medical team is I
know that you assign physicaltherapy post-op.
I want it.
Pre-op, I said I'm going to bea NASA astronaut.
I got to get ready for themission and rather than outer
(44:18):
space, it's inner space, becausewe're going to have to have
extensive surgery.
So let's get ready.
And they said you know, that'sa great idea, so I'm getting
ready for the mission.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Well, even when you came in today, I said how are
you doing?
And you told me you had chemothis week and you said it just
makes me more productive.
You told me you had chemo thisweek and you said it just makes
me more productive.
Yeah, I'm able to sit and do mystuff.
And then you said I'm going toalways remember this.
You said and I don't sleep thatnight, so I get to be
productive all night long.
I mean, you're just aninspiration.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Oh, thanks.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Tommy, what has Patricia meant during this time
of life?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
She's my soulmate.
I couldn't ask for a morestaunch support person.
Through this she keeps myspirits up, but you know, when I
need something in the middle ofthe night she'll get it.
So she's tough.
(45:11):
But when we did go public withit and she saw it on TV or in
the newspapers, it hit her andshe cried and she says it's real
, isn't it?
And I said, yeah, it's real,it's what we're dealing with.
But she and the family havebeen so supportive and I keep
them all informed.
When we did the call withHuntsman Cancer Institute, which
(45:34):
is where I would work with StLuke's as well as Huntsman down
in Salt Lake City, the kids canbe on the call and hear what the
doctors say.
So I'm getting ready.
I intend to be a victor, not avictim, of this dang thing.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Ben, I don't know if it's possible to express how
much you mean to this place, butthank you.
Thank you for a life of serviceand an attitude of it's just.
It's so remarkable.
I hope you know, and I hope youknow how many people are
praying for you and love you andadmire you.
(46:14):
You're just a living legend.
Thanks, tommy, and we'reblessed.
Because of you we walk thestreets of Boise.
We're blessed, I mean, we walkthis state and this country
because of men like you, womenthat serve and love this place.
So it's nice to stop and reflectwith you and I just can't tell
(46:37):
you thank you enough for yourservice and what you mean to us.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Well, what a wonderful thing for you to say
Thank you.
I mean that touches my heart.
And two, let me thank you allthe things you have done.
I mean things you touch are tohelp others, and you make it.
You have enhanced our qualityof life.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
We just feel I'm going to tell a story from a
couple of weeks ago.
You know the Operation MilitaryBlessings thing.
I mean we're going to have Tomon later today, but you're just
in your hands, are everywhereand you know the second.
There's a need, you're there.
I hope any closing words forpeople who may be listening that
(47:20):
may inspire them to maybe domore or be better, anything you
would tell our listeners of Idon't know, just kind of closing
remarks, sure.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Can I first thank you for your support of Operation
Military Blessings?
Absolutely, I first thank youfor your support of Operation
Military Blessings.
I mean this is helping theyoungest and the most freshmen
of our military that are on foodstamps, that just need help.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
It's sad.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
It's sad, but thanks for what you're doing, and Tom
Wessall is doing a magnificentjob and Chuck Winder is going to
be a key part of that as well.
What I would say is this Nevergive up hope and know that you
can make a difference.
And if you have an idea in you,something planted that idea and
(48:12):
when others may say it's not agood idea, but you have it.
You may not listen to those andif it's positive, pursue it.
And also take time to listen toone another.
In Home Depot, the young manwho was checking me out and he
(48:33):
said oh, you're the formergovernor, Can I ask you?
And I made sure I took the timeto answer his question and look
him in the eye and just I wouldsay that to everybody.
I've said if you want a promiseof a bright future, look into
the eyes of a child, becausethey only know hope and
(48:53):
happiness, but let's make sureit becomes reality as they
mature and that we do our job toturn it over to them and then
say your prayers at night.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
I love it Of all the things you are.
You're kind and you're good,and everyone who's around you is
better because of you.
So thank you, governor, forbeing here, love you, praying
for you, thank you, that's what.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
I need.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
You're going to beat this like you beat everything
else.
Thank you, thank you, god blessyou, thanks everybody.
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