June 16, 2025 • 51 mins
As America moves fast and politics grow louder, Idaho holds steady—grounded in natural beauty, personal responsibility, and a deep connection to the land. Few people understand that better than Congressman Mike Simpson, who has spent over two decades bringing Idaho’s voice to the national stage.
Simpson’s journey from small-town dentist to influential lawmaker reveals the human side of long-term public service—where conviction meets endurance. With disarming candor, he shares personal struggles, including becoming “kind of bionic” after multiple joint replacements and a remarkable 100-pound weight loss journey that began when complications impacted his ability to taste. Yet through it all, Simpson’s commitment to Idaho’s people and priorities has never faltered.
Now serving as Chairman of the Interior and Environment Appropriations Subcommittee, Simpson speaks to some of the most pressing issues facing the West: securing fair pay for wildland firefighters, co-sponsoring the Public Lands in Public Hands Act to block federal land sell-offs, confronting the missing and murdered Indigenous women crisis, and advancing energy independence in collaboration with leaders like Secretary Burgum and EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin.
He also offers a rare behind-the-scenes perspective on how Congress has changed during his tenure. “You see members of Congress doing things they would have never done 20 years ago,” he reflects, noting how the disappearance of moderates has made thoughtful governance harder—especially in moments that demand it most. Still, he remains committed to working across the aisle on real solutions, including budget reforms to address what he calls “the biggest existential threat to our country”: the $37 trillion national debt.
Throughout the conversation, Simpson demonstrates what principled leadership looks like—rooted in place, driven by service, and focused on impact over headlines. His fierce defense of public lands (“People live in Idaho because we love our public lands”) and unwavering advocacy for the people he represents mark him as a rare kind of public servant in today’s political environment.
If you’re looking for a grounded, thoughtful voice on the future of Idaho—and the nation—this episode offers both clarity and conviction from someone who’s still in the arena, doing the work.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today on the Around Word podcast we have Congressman
Mike Simpson.
Mike is an unbelievablestatesman.
Has been serving the people ofIdaho in Congress in Washington
DC on his 14th term.
We are so excited to get caughtup with Mike, a good friend.
Mike began as a dentist inEastern Idaho, in Blackfoot.
Born in Oakley, idaho, heserved for 12 years in the Idaho
(00:23):
State Legislature before beingelected to Congress.
Can't wait to catch up withMike and hear about everything
going on in Washington DC.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thanks for being on, mike.
Oh, yeah, thanks, I didn't knowyou did the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, we've been doing it too long.
It's been like five years.
Seriously, Can't believe Ihaven't had you on in five years
.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Why didn't I know that?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, you're a hard guy to schedule With Nikki.
No, I'm just kidding.
No, we've done it a while.
When I ran for governor I gotdone and thought, man, it would
be cool to tell all these.
There's great stories in Idahoof kind of average, just people
that do extraordinary things.
So the first year we kind ofdid that.
(01:14):
And then Bill Whitaker, youknow Bill.
Bill was my co-host for a whilebut he travels the world so
much that that was a little hard.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
And then the last two years, we't he up in uh
whitefish or somewhere now?
Yes, he, I saw him at someevent and I hadn't seen him in a
long time and he said we're upjust off one of the lakes, or
whatever he says.
We've got a beautiful place upthere.
He invited me to come up andspend some time with him and
stuff he's.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
He's an amazing guy, yeah it really is so how you
been Good, been good.
How's your last time I was withyou?
You were hobbling around alittle bit on your hip, did it
it's.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I'm at that age where I'm kind of bionic.
Now I've had both knees, thehip, they did surgery on my neck
and stuff.
Then my neck started flaring upa couple of weeks ago or a ago,
I guess it just was killing me,and so my neurosurgeon here.
I had to go back to boise or todc and they hit, hooked me up
(02:13):
with a pain specialist, you knowpain relief stuff.
They gave me some injections inthe neck and put me on celebrex
and stuff and it's been okaysince then.
But just weird shit happens toyou when you get old.
You know, mike, I know.
This is what always bugs me isyour skin gets so thin that you
bump it into a table like thisand all of a sudden you've got a
(02:35):
bruise there.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, no, I know I'm right there with you.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
But other than that I'm doing fine.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
You look good.
Thank you, you look great.
The good thing is when theystarted on my knees, so I had
surgery for different ones foreach knee, the hip, the neck.
I was under for all this andthen they did carpal tunnel and
all this kind of stuff.
My taste buds just went to helland the endocrinologist in D in
DC told me that one of the sideeffects of general anesthetic
(03:09):
they use every one but one, hesaid is that it can affect your
taste buds, he said it doesn'thappen very often and it almost
always comes back.
It's been six years now andfood just tastes like crap.
I have to force myself to eatsomething and consequently I've
gone from a high of 270 and Iwas down to 171 yesterday 100
(03:33):
pounds.
Yeah, 100 pounds over the lastfive or six years.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Wow, you look great, feel better actually.
You look really really good.
Good, that's great Boy, you'vebeen busy, just got a little,
just a little bit going on.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
A little crazy.
Things are going crazy inWashington, but that's okay,
it's.
People are upset about the wayTrump and Doge are doing some of
(04:08):
the things and I've looked atit and we've known that our debt
.
We've got to get it undercontrol and head in the right
direction.
For years and we hadSimpson-Bowles Commission, which
was members of the House,senate, private sector people
got together for about ninemonths and discussed ideas and
stuff.
You know how many of theirideas became law Zero.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
But really good ideas .
By the way, yeah, I rememberreading that stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, good ideas and stuff, but zero of them became
law and then Steny Hoyer, theminority leader at the time in
the House, and me formed the GoBig Coalition in the House to
kind of do the same thing.
Out of all the recommendationswe had, zero became law.
It may be that the only way youcould do this is to come in and
dramatically do it like Dogeand Trump have done.
(04:55):
It's disruptive and everythingelse.
And Elon Musk has actually toldus, said listen, we're going to
screw up, we're going to makemistakes.
We just need to know when we doso we can correct them and
stuff like that.
But it may be the only way thatyou could actually reduce the
size of government and get afterthe waste and abuse and all
that kind of stuff.
I mean, I was stunned.
(05:15):
A lot of these things we don'tknow anything about.
Members of Congress, I wasstunned when I found out that
they keep all personnel recordspaper form in a mine.
It's called Iron Mine and Elonwas told the limitation is you
can only fire a maximum of10,000 people a month.
(05:35):
And he said, why is that?
And they said because we keeptheir records in a mine, an
actual mine, and the elevatorcan only make that many trips up
and down each month.
So that's the limiting factor.
And he said to him he said so,why don't you digitalize this
(05:56):
stuff?
And they said oh, we got moneytwo years ago to start
digitalizing.
He said how's that going?
He says a B.
He says you're givingyourselves a B.
He said no, we're at a letter Bin two years.
So it does take the privatesector, yeah, and while it's
different than government, youcan use business principles in
(06:17):
government and that's whatthey're trying to do.
I think yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
For a guy like you.
Well, first of had, I had russon not too long ago and then you
know, you know, jim rish is my,my buddy now.
Yeah, we farm together oh doyou really and ranch together.
So I get, I get to see him ortalk to him almost every day,
yeah, and I just love him.
But you talk to we.
We have some incredibleleadership back there right now
and the committees that we'rechairing yeah, one that you're
(06:43):
chairing the power that ourlittle state yields back in
Congress right now is prettyimpressive.
Speak to that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Look at our delegation.
We're a delegation of only four.
We've got Crapo in charge ofthe Finance Committee, jim in
charge of the Foreign RelationsCommittee.
In fact, at the end of thisterm I just learned this morning
he will have been chairman ofthe Foreign Relations Committee.
In fact, at the end of thisterm, I just learned this
morning he will have beenchairman of the Foreign
Relations Committee twice aslong as Frank Church was.
Yeah, so I mean that's a prettypowerful position.
(07:12):
I'm on the chair of theInterior Committee, on the
Energy and Water Committee thatI used to chair, and on the
Labor, health and Human ServicesCommittee, and Russ is on
Energy and Commerce and NaturalResources.
So we're spread out good andpretty influential delegation, I
think.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, and you guys work together pretty well.
Yeah, yeah we do Talk about thechanges there.
Since you've been there, you'vehad a storied career, buddy.
I was reading your bio gettingready for this and and I knew a
lot of it, but, um you, you'vebeen back there for 14.
This is my 14th term, 14th termin washington, yep, and and
(07:57):
talk a little bit about thechanges changes in politics in
general, just how things youknow, one of the people interact
.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
One of the biggest changes that I've noticed I
don't know how to say this right, but it's the disrespect so
many people have for theinstitution.
You see members of Congressdoing things that they would
have never done 20 years ago.
They'd have been censored andkicked out of Congress if they
(08:26):
did some of the things.
But you hear some of thespeeches on the floor and stuff
like that and it gets way toopartisan.
And the problem is is thatthose people that are the
problem solvers, if you will,the ones that are in the middle
more or less.
When I came, the Democrats had70 members in what was called a
Blue Dog Coalition and that wasthe conservative Democrats and
(08:49):
we worked with them a lot.
I voted for one of theirbudgets one year because I
thought it was better than ourbudget and stuff.
So there was across the aisleconversations and talk and
working together and that kindof stuff.
There are no Blue Dog Democratsnow because they've either been
beaten in primaries or decidednot to run again by more extreme
people.
Same things happen on our sideand so the sides are becoming
(09:10):
more and more separated andthere's not that base in the
middle.
That brings some sense to thestuff we do and I think that's
the biggest change I've seen.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, it seems well for you.
Just the partisan nature ofeverything.
Yeah, everything that comes upright Makes it hard to do the
business of the country right.
Yep, it really does, and yousee that difference as you've
watched.
Absolutely.
What about the interpersonalrelationships?
Have they changed over theyears too?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
as people, it has to some degree.
I would say the people that Ihang around with has probably
gotten smaller because ourcaucus has gotten more to the
right and stuff and you look atthe Freedom Caucus.
My challenge with them is thatI don't disagree with what
(10:01):
they're trying to do.
They're trying to get ourfiscal house in order and I
think it's the right thing to do.
Problem is they have no idea ofhow to do it.
They have no strategy of how todo it and they think that
closing down the government is alegitimate policy objective.
I don't think it is.
I've never seen a time whenclosing down the government is
good politics or good policy,and so we have differences more
(10:24):
in strategy than we doeverything else, and that was
90% of the debate of trying toget their reconciliation bill
done.
They wanted some other things.
They just have no idea abouthow to get there, and so I don't
hang around with them a lot.
Some of them I do.
But the members across theaisle I still have friends over
there that I talk to and workwith.
(10:46):
Shelly Pingree, who is theranking member on Interior,
we're good friends.
Steny Hoyer and I are stillgood friends and stuff, so we
have those relations, butthey're not as many as there
used to be.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, socially.
Who was I talking to?
I think Jim, someone wastelling me that.
Oh no, maybe it was Butch.
Butch was telling me that backin the day there was a lot of
interaction, families spent timewith families and people spent
time with people, and he said,when people started coming home,
(11:16):
as much the interaction and thefriendships and the bonds that
kind of sometimes would carrythe day on issues is just
different.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think it's the biggest problem we have.
I had a guy who was a member ofCongress that we got a job for
in the Department of Agriculture.
Ralph Harding was a congressmanfrom Idaho Democrat Pretty
surprising now.
He was a good friend.
He was actually one of my dad'sdental patients and he wanted a
job in the Bush administrationwhen Bush got elected and we
(11:44):
helped him get a job in theDepartment of Agriculture and
stuff.
So I talked to him quite a bitbut he said when he got elected
almost every member moved theirfamily back to Washington
because Congress only paid fortravel home about three times a
year, so you'd come home for the4th of July and Christmas or
whatever you know.
Now you have your own member'saccount and you can spend it how
(12:06):
you want to, with somelimitations and stuff, but most
members come home every weekendWith me.
That's too many airplaneflights, that's about nine hours
from door to door and so Idon't do it every weekend, but
it's still a lot of coming home.
But when you had your familiesout there and nobody moves their
families out there now, butthey used to move their families
(12:27):
out there that means you wentto other kids' baseball games
and barbecues and things and youinteracted members from both
parties and stuff and so you gotto know each other and you and
I can disagree vehemently on anissue, but it's hard for me, if
I know you and your wife andyour kids, to start calling you
(12:48):
names on the floor or somethinglike that.
So there was a lot more respectin that happening.
I think Butch is absolutelyright that that's gone away
because members fly home everyweekend and I wish it wasn't
that way, because we do need to,and there have been attempts to
try to, you know, have dinnerswith members of the other party
and that kind of stuff, andthose have always kind of fallen
(13:09):
through and never, never reallygot to know each other.
Like cause, you go to one ofthese dinners and then you're
talking politics and you try toget to know people personally.
When I first got to Congress Isaid I want to, I want to get to
know every other member, and soI had my staff start setting up
15-minute meetings with membersthat I'd just go over and say
Hi, I'm Mike Simpson, I'm fromIdaho, I used to be a dentist,
(13:31):
served in the legislature,didn't want to talk about issues
or anything like that, I justwanted to get to know them.
I wanted to get to know whattheir background was and stuff.
And that was probably the bestthing I ever did, because I got
to know other people that Icould talk to on the floor and
if there was an issue I knew whoI could go talk to on the other
(13:51):
side of the aisle and stuff andwork with, but none of that
happens anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, you know, when I think of you, I think of the
word statesman, that's nice.
But think about that.
Think about what it means to bea statesman and over time, yeah
, and that's what you've been,mike.
Well, I appreciate that and Ilook at the world we live in now
and you've been therepre-iPhone social media.
(14:15):
It seems like a lot of membersof Congress on both sides.
There's the social media shockand awe say something crazy, do
something crazy, and we needmore statesmen that are there to
serve the people.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Well, I appreciate that.
I've had people in Iowa say,well, why don't I see you on TV
every night, like Jim Jordan orsomething like that?
And I'll say to them you know,I could be on TV every single
night if I wanted to, andthey'll go.
Really.
I said, yeah, all I got to dois go say something really,
really stupid, and I guaranteeit'll make the news.
(14:53):
I try to stay off the news asmuch as I can and just do my job
, and I think there's too manypeople that are, and it's
somewhat natural.
I won't say it's completelyforeign to me, but there's too
many people that their wholegoal is to get reelected.
My goal is to do what's bestfor Idaho and for the country
and if I get reelected, I getreelected.
But if you can't defend it, youshouldn't do it.
(15:14):
So that's kind of my goal.
And when you have a two-yearcycle, you're always in an
election, you're always up forre-election, right?
It starts the day after thelast election.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So I think it does drive some behavior right,
Because it is something you'realways thinking about?
Oh, absolutely, it drives somebehavior, but I think you've
been able to.
I've watched you the whole time.
I've known you Just stand upfor the things that are best for
Idaho, for our families, forour people, for our environment.
You just always seem to be thestatesman on the issues and I
(15:46):
love that about you.
I appreciate that, thank youWith the Trump administration
back there now the big beautifulbill just passed, right?
Yeah, by one vote.
Yep by.
Yeah, by one vote.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yep by one vote and one person was asleep and missed
the vote.
He would have voted for it, sotechnically we had two votes.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Technically two Tell us a little bit about it and
then tell us a little bit aboutwhat you think is going to
happen in the Senate.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well, first of all, I try not to predict what's going
to happen to the Senate, but inthe House, all of the
committees.
They have instructions in thebudget resolution that go find
this many dollars in savings andyou know virtually every
authorizing committee has to godo that.
They had all-night sessions.
They worked their rear ends offto get their bills out and
(16:32):
stuff to meet the goals that thebudget committee had sent.
Then they send them back to thebudget committee and they
coalesce them into the one big,beautiful bill and it has some
provisions in there that worryme.
It has some provisions that areabsolutely essential for the
country.
The biggest thing is it startedoff as we've got to extend the
(16:53):
Trump tax cuts from 2017,because if we don't, it's an
automatic 24% increase in taxesacross this country.
And if you're going to addressthe budget deficit, some people
have said how can you talk aboutcutting taxes or extending
these tax cuts when we have thisbig deficit?
The way you address the deficitand the way we balance the
budget in 96, I think it waswhen Clinton and Newt Gingrich-.
(17:16):
It's been a while now, yeah, butthey didn't slash and burn
spending.
What they did is got theeconomy growing, and when the
economy grows we get morerevenue into the federal
government, and in fact they hadso much coming in they didn't
know what to do with all of it.
And the problem was, if you getmore revenue than your annual
budget, there's a tendency tospend it and grow government,
(17:37):
and we need to reverse that, andso the tax cuts were vitally
important.
But then there's a lot of otherprovisions in there where they
had to find savings from waste,fraud and abuse in a variety of
programs, and there is a lot ofthat going on that needs to be
reformed.
People suggest that theDemocrats are saying that we are
(17:58):
trying to cut people off ofMedicare and Medicaid and Social
Security.
Nobody's Social Security isgoing to get touched.
If anybody thinks that I wouldvote to cut Social Security,
they don't know.
My 98-year-old mother, Iwouldn't dare go home.
So that's not going to happenand we're not proposing that.
On Medicare and Medicaid, whatthey're trying to do is cut the
waste, fraud and abuse.
(18:18):
They're trying to cut illegalsoff the rolls that are there and
people you know they said therewas like I can't remember the
number.
It was like over 3 millionpeople on Social Security that
are above the age of 130.
Yeah, and what Musk told us iswe don't know if any of those
people are actually gettingpaychecks from social security.
(18:40):
So there might be a few, butit's not the vast majority of
them.
The problem is that you qualifyfor other programs like
unemployment and other things.
They check to make sure thatyou have a social security
number.
And if you have a socialsecurity number, that's as far
as it goes.
And the problem is he says,your technology.
What he said is your technologysucks because the computers
(19:03):
don't talk to each other and allthis kind of stuff.
So if we can eliminate some ofthat stuff, we can get most of
this money out of waste, fraudand abuse and that kind of stuff
.
And I'm kind of I don't knowyou, being a doctor, I don't
know what you think aboutKennedy's Make America Healthy
Again proposals.
I like the fact that we'relooking at some of the food
(19:24):
additives that we have and allthat kind of stuff, some of the
things I got in a littlediscussion with him about
fluoride on our hearing.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It's interesting.
Yeah, it is.
It's interesting, yeah, it is.
Well, first of all, I'm asWestern, like ER doc Neanderthal
.
Yeah, it bleeds.
Put pressure bone sticking out,put it back in.
Start CPR, basic medicine.
I am a basic medicine guy, sowe're pretty black and white in
(19:56):
the way we see the world, theway we fix things right.
I've listened to a lot in thelast couple of years.
I've really tried to pay moreattention to a lot of the
wellness and whole body stuffand I do listen, I think when
Obamacare passed.
I remember when it passed Yep,and you remember when Biden
(20:16):
whispers in the ear of Obamathis is a big, big F and deal
right.
And I remember half of mypartners kind of freaking out.
You know just, this is going tobe the greatest thing ever.
And I remember sitting in ouroffice having a little group
chat with about five of ussaying this is going to screw
things up Because it didn't gofar enough.
Either we needed to have, youknow, a privatized system and a
(20:38):
federal system of insurance orwe needed to keep government out
of the middle.
And you look at what's happenedsince Obamacare, the layers of
bureaucracy.
I'm going to get to the pointhere.
You look at PBMs and what theyhave done to the cost of drugs.
You look at all of the layers,everyone like, if you go back 20
years ago, what's the layersbetween a physician and a
(20:58):
patient now?
And it's insane, what's gone on?
So all this bureaucracy hasbeen created.
Well, in the middle of all that, there's just money.
I mean the hospital association, the pharmaceutical companies,
everyone's got all this money,so do?
I think that money influenceshealthcare Absolutely 100%.
(21:19):
And I think a lot of thingsthat he talks about are accurate
.
I think that you look at theway the drug companies do their
deal.
I mean, I was a victim of that.
I remember when I trained.
I tell this story I don't tellit very often, but it bothers me
when I was in residency so Iwas in residency in the 90s
there was this big push by thepharmaceutical companies, the
(21:39):
people that made Norco,hydrocodone, right, right,
percocet, oxycodone, and theywould come into the ER.
They would take you on golftrips.
You would come in sometimes andyou'd have a new putter You'd
have, like you know, I was downin Tucson, arizona, in training
and I'd have a whole stack ofPro-V1s and I'm like, oh, and
there was this nice note fromthe drug rep telling me that and
(22:02):
they would put studies, stacksof studies that said that as
doctors we're not treating painwell enough and we should be
sending everyone home with 40 to60 Percocet after an ankle
sprain.
I mean, I lived it right.
Then I moved to Boise.
I'm in Boise, idaho, and Istill remember it was a nice guy
, former NFL player.
He would come in.
I did night shifts.
(22:22):
He'd come in every night andhere's some more Pro-V1s Can I
take you?
Hey, I looked at your record.
You're not prescribing enoughVicodin.
So that happened.
I can't deny it happened,because it happened to me and
guess what?
I was thinking I'm not treatingpain well enough, so I started
prescribing more pain medicine.
So I was part of this problemthat happened, and so I'm always
(22:45):
careful.
There's a lot of opinions and alot of really opinionated people
on a lot of things, and I thinkit's always good to step back
and say, okay, what is the truth?
If you can get the filters ofdollars out of the way and I
think for vaccines, I think forsome of the food stuff he talks
about, I think the food industry.
You look at just refined sugarsand what it's done to America.
(23:09):
You look at our obesity rates.
You look at any chronicdiseases that we have compared
to the rest of the world.
There's something to it.
Yeah, there is.
So I really appreciate theworld.
There's something to it.
Yeah, there is.
I really appreciate the factthat he's looking at it.
Now do I think some of thisstuff sounds kooky to an ER doc?
Yeah, some of it sounds like alittle kooky.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
But you look at the amount of additives we put in
our food versus, as an example,what they do in Europe and stuff
I mean the list that we put inthings you can get a loaf of
bread today that'll stay freshon your shelf for like two
months.
You know what I mean.
It's crazy, that's right, and Igot no problem with them
looking at it and saying are allthese things safe?
(23:47):
Are they really beneficial tous or not?
I remember I got in trouble withpharma because I was one who
said we ought to negotiate drugprices from the start.
The federal government is thebiggest drug purchaser in the
country and when you can go toforeign countries and they
(24:08):
actually will sell these drugsto Germany under cost under what
it costs to produce it, becausethey can get the benefit back
from the United States becausethey overcharge, I love the fact
that Trump came in and saidlisten, we're going to pay the
same thing that foreigncountries do.
We're not going to start payingyou.
All this and I know it made thepharma companies go nuts and
stuff, but that's, I think, avery important move.
And I thought if you lived inMinnesota and you go to Canada
(24:30):
every other day and you have aprescription, you had to be able
to fill it in Canada, as longas they have an FDA sort of
approval process.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Is it not one of the things that's got to get you is
the irony of the political sidesof things nowadays.
I think of my grandparentsstaunch both sides.
I grew up in Magna, utah.
Both grandpas worked forKennecott Copper Mine.
Their fathers worked for theCopper Mine.
They were blue-collar Democratsyeah, socially very
(25:00):
conservative, but they wereDemocrats.
Oh yeah, a lot of those peoplewere FDR Democrats FDR Democrats
.
They were very much FDRDemocrats.
But if you think about whofights for some of this stuff
nowadays the fact that you'vegot Kennedy doing what he's
doing for the Republican Partygoing after big business Is that
(25:20):
weird or what?
And getting crap from theDemocrats, every one of these
issues.
It's like people have losttheir minds on what core values
even meant to anyone.
And I think if you stripped allthat away at some point and
said, hey, is it a good thingthat we have our foods and our
medicines and everything morestudied, that we don't let big
business take advantage for thedollar, that we have our foods
and our medicines and everythingmore studied, that we don't let
big business take advantage forthe dollar, that we protect
(25:42):
people, I think people would sayyes on both sides.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I think there's a great deal of support for what
Kennedy is his vision, what he'strying to do, while there is
like I have a problem with hisfluoride stuff.
They took fluoride.
They banned fluoride frompediatric drops, you know, and
that's when it's reallyimportant.
But the CDC the day they bannedit I was reading their press
(26:10):
release and it happened to bethe day Kennedy was testifying
for our committee and Kennedyagreed with the statement by the
CDC and it said we need toeliminate fluoride because it
can affect your biosystem,because it kills bacteria, just
like it kills bacteria toprevent tooth decay.
That's not how fluoride works.
Fluoride works by strengtheningyour enamel, not by killing the
(26:33):
bacteria and stuff.
At one time they tried.
Why don't we put penicillin intoothpaste?
Well, that killed the bacteria,but it let all the other things
grow that were bad.
So you know we've done morestudies on things like that, but
I agree with what he's tryingto do overall.
I was riding up in the elevatorwith Steny Hoyer, who is a good
friend of mine, to the hearingwith JFK and I says well, we get
(26:56):
to go listen to your man, jfk,and he looked at me and says
he's yours now.
But some exciting things arehappening and it is disruptive
and people get nervous and allthat kind of stuff.
I'm a little nervous of whatthey're trying to do with
wildfire fighting, trying tomove it from the Forest Service
(27:17):
over to the Department ofInterior.
I want to know what's theirjustification.
What are they trying toaccomplish?
Why are they doing that?
But we don't have any of thatyet from the budget request, so
we're going to invest in thatkind of stuff and see what's
happening.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Well, my good friend's waiting to be for his
appointment, mike Boron, or hisconfirmation, and yeah, he can't
wait to get to work, but ittakes a while.
He's now saying it may be endof the summer.
It takes a while.
You don't realize until youhave someone going through it.
It takes a while it takes.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I actually think this is just my personal opinion.
I think the Senate confirms toomany positions.
If you are the press secretaryfor the undersecretary of this,
you know you got to getconfirmed.
That's exaggeration, but they Ithink they spend too much time
doing confirmations and stuff.
Top people got no problem withthat, but uh, borin has to get
confirmed.
Uh, and of course we got thenew head of the chief of the
(28:14):
forest services is uh, fromidaho and stuff.
So Tom Schultz and he's doing agreat job.
So I have some connectionsthere I can talk to about what's
going on and stuff.
But I look forward to Mikegetting confirmed too and I
think he'll do a good job.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, he's he's, he's excited.
I don't know why he's soexcited.
He has a pretty good life.
I was going to say why did youwant to?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I asked him that why did you want to do this?
I asked Elon Musk this whenseveral of us were in a meeting
with him.
I said why are you doing this?
I said you could be on a yachtin the Caribbean drinking Mai
Tais, just enjoying yourself.
You know, he says.
I thought about that, he said,but I came to the conclusion
that this is the last chancewe've got to save this country
(28:53):
and if we don't get headed inthe right direction, this
country is going down and all ofus are going down with.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
So that's why I'm doing it, which is a pretty big
sacrifice on his part.
Yeah, Do you think?
Do you think we ever get to abudget, to we're headed in the
right direction?
Do?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
you think that happens.
The, the reconciliation billheads us in the right direction.
It's not everything everybodywanted and I've always told
people it's not really where youstand.
It's what direction you'reheaded that counts, and I think
we're headed in the rightdirection with that, and there
will be more coming up in thenext year's budget and that kind
of stuff.
(29:30):
If you look at what we'retrying to appropriate money for
next year.
I was just talking to my staffthis morning from the Interior
Committee about the cuts thatwe're going to do in Interior
and where we're going to makethem and stuff.
Unfortunately, it's a lot ofprograms that a lot of people
like.
But you got to ask yourself isit necessary?
Not when you're sitting therewith a $37 trillion debt.
I mean, that's the biggestexistential threat to our
(29:52):
country is our debt.
It's not China, it's not Iran,it's not Russia, it's our debt.
And if we don't get that undercontrol and headed in the right
direction and we will, but it'lltake some work and it will take
some pain that people will cryabout, and I understand that
fully.
I really do.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Well, as a taxpayer and just a citizen, it's nice
that it's being talked about too.
I remember well Democrats hadthey had control of our
government from the executivebranch for 16 out of 20 years.
Right, yeah, Right.
And you don't hear about thedeficit one time when they're in
(30:28):
.
But during Trump's firstpresidency you didn't hear it
either.
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Very much.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I mean you look at the chances then to try to
address a problem and then itwould have been eight years ago,
yeah, so it's really nice thatwe're addressing it.
It's a big issue, it's a hardthing, but that's what we need,
right?
I?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
think really what you're seeing out of this
administration.
You'll notice Trump came in andon day one started signing
executive orders and everythingelse and a lot of those
executive orders I agree with.
He learned from his four yearsthat he was president, that he
was under fire every day forimpeachment, for this or that or
(31:08):
whatever, and false stories outthere and actually put out by
the Clinton campaign.
I mean he lived that for fouryears and I think then he had
four years off to sit and saywhat would I do differently?
And he knows that the first twoyears, especially the first
year, maximum, but the first twoyears, especially the first
year maximum.
But the first two years is thetime you've got to get something
done.
(31:28):
And so that's why I think hehit the ground running and
started appointing these people,and I'm kind of excited about
his cabinet appointees too.
People were going, ah, theseare people we don't know and
whatever.
That's okay.
There's not a better secretaryof state than Marco Rubio.
This guy knows what he's doing.
I love him.
My Cuban friends are goodpeople.
(31:50):
He's been strong.
He's been very, very strong.
But Lee Zeldin at EPA.
He's going to take some realhits in his budget, but he's
going to do what the EPA isdirected to do.
My first term as chairman ofthis interior committee, the
first five years there, we cutthe EPA's budget by 17% over
(32:11):
that period of time and Ithought we were doing pretty
good.
They want to really cut theEPA's budget.
But there's a lot of people saywell, why do you do these state
and local tribal grants andstuff that help water systems
and sewer systems and localcommunities?
Because they're enforcingfederal law.
So federal government helpswith the funding of that to some
degree and so we'll be doingsome of that.
But they had an EPA museumSound kind of weird, An EPA
(32:37):
museum set up and I can'tremember how many million it
cost to operate and everything.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I'm just thinking of some of my farmer friends.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Do you know how many people came in last year?
2,000.
That's like what?
Four, five, six a day came into visit this EPA museum.
And I don't know of anybodythat comes to Washington that
says, hey, let's go visit theWashington Monument, no, let's
go to the EPA museum.
Oh, that's good.
To the EPA Museum.
But he cut that out and we'refinding that kind of stuff
(33:07):
throughout government and Ithink it took eyes from outside
to look at it to tell us whatwas going on.
To some degree, that's great.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Hey, tell me a little bit about your heritage in
growing up.
And your dad was a dentist Yep,he inspired you to be one.
And then you got into politics,kind of took off, but talk a
little bit.
One of the things I've one ofthe reasons I still do this
podcast thing is I really likehearing about the why behind
people.
Sure, and for you, who was itthat inspired you at a young age
(33:38):
to be what you've become?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Well, you know I was.
We lived in Oakley, idaho.
I was born in Burley because mymother had to go to the
hospital in Burley and I had togo along.
So I was born in Burley andthen we lived in California for
a few years while dad was inKorea and when he got out of the
(33:59):
service we moved to Blackfoot,idaho.
They grew up in Oakley, idaho,and that's where they got
engaged and got married and allthat kind of stuff.
And my dad was a dentist and myuncle was a dentist.
His brother and I went tocollege at Utah State and I was
a political science majorbecause I loved the study of
(34:21):
politics, not necessarily beinga bureaucrat and working for
government I don't mean that ina negative term, but I didn't
want to work for the government,but I liked the policy
decisions and stuff.
But then what do you do with apolitical science degree?
And I liked the biologicalsciences.
So I switched to thepre-dentistry and went to dental
school in St Louis andgraduated and came back and set
(34:42):
up practice with my dad and myuncle and practiced with them
for until my dad retired andthen my uncle and I and then my
cousin joined us, so we hadthree dentists there at the time
, but after I was practicing forabout three, I graduated in 77
from dental school and I waspracticing for about three years
(35:04):
.
I picked up the morning news oneday, the Blackfoot paper, and
it said that there were twoseats open on the Blackfoot city
council and only one person hadfiled and the deadline was the
next day.
And so I thought, wow, this isa way to get into politics, you
know.
So I went down and gotten 50signatures and signed up seven
to five other people and thatmeant you had to go to debates
(35:26):
and stuff and I, like mostAmericans, the number one fear
we have is speaking in public.
So I'm kind of do I really wantto do this?
Do I want to go to the Leagueof Women Voters debate and all
that kind of stuff?
So I but I ran and I we knewwho would get the most votes and
I came in second.
I got two,016 votes and the guyin third place got 1,008.
(35:49):
So I won by eight votes.
So if me and my wife, my dad andmy brother and my mother had
voted the other way, I wouldhave never run again, because
having public speaking was theworst thing in the world for me.
But I got elected, served fouryears on the city council and a
state legislator from my areawas retiring and I talked to him
(36:12):
about it and stuff and thepart-time legislature in Idaho.
I could actually come over hereand I got elected there to the
state legislature.
But I could come over and workin the state legislature, go
home Friday afternoon andpractice, practice Saturday,
take care of the state hospitalpatients on Sunday and then come
back over.
So I did that for like 14 yearsand became Speaker of the House
(36:34):
.
Never thought I'd be Speaker ofthe House, but-.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Did you enjoy your time as Speaker?
I did.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
That's the best job I've ever had.
The Speaker of the House is anamazing.
It takes you a while to realizewhat authorities you have.
You got a lot of Speaker of theHouse.
It didn't take Moira long yeah,some people learn quicker than
I do but it was.
I was going to either retire orI was going to run for governor
(37:04):
and Dirk Kempthorne at that timedecided to come back and run
for governor and Crapo movedfrom the House seat that I have
over to the Senate, so it openedup the second congressional
district.
And I said to my wife I saidyou know that all those years
you worked to put me throughdental school and now we took
time to build a practice.
We've got a practice.
If we wanted to go to Hawaiinext week, we could pack up and
go to Hawaii for a couple ofweeks.
You know if that's what wewanted to do.
And I said how would you liketo give that all up?
(37:26):
Decrease your salary by abouthalf, and every two years you
got to ask people to send youback.
And she said this surprised meNot coming from her, though
she's a pretty smart woman.
She said I've watched you overthe last several years, those
three months of the year inBoise during the legislative
session, in your home, workingon weekends and stuff, said
(37:47):
you're busier than heck.
And then those times whereyou're just practicing dentistry
, the nine months of the yearsays you're happier those three
months when you're busier.
And so she said let's go try it.
So we ran for Congress and beenhere ever since.
That's how I got involved, butit was I can't say it was a
specific issue or something likethat that drove me to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I liked the debate in the politics of Do you remember
the first time you went backthere, the first time after
you'd been elected, and walkingin, did the grandeur of it all
hit you?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I always say, if I ever, usually we go over to the
Capitol from my office on thetunnels and stuff, but if I walk
outside and I walk over to theCapitol, if I don't get
goosebumps I shouldn't be there.
It's amazing.
I can remember the first time Iwas walking up the staircase
around by the house chamber andthe marble there is kind of
dished out, old, and I said, man, this is the people's house,
(38:43):
why don't they replace thesemarbles, these marble steps and
stuff?
And then I thought to myselfthink of the people that have
walked up and down here.
Abraham Lincoln, davy Crockett,I mean you know, the heroes of
this country have walked up anddown these steps.
Okay, I get it, I know why theydon't, but it is a fascinating
place and it is.
I love giving tours of theCapitol or a staff giving tours,
(39:06):
and people are amazed.
It's a beautiful place.
Everybody hates Washington DC.
Every politician says you knowI'm leaving there when I retire,
I'm coming back to Idaho.
I'm not going to be one ofthose people that stays in DC,
but I got to tell you in allhonesty, the one thing I will
regret is that I haven't takenthe time to take full advantage
(39:27):
of living there and stuff.
I'm kind of a civil war freakand the civil war happened
within a hundred miles of DC,you know, and I need to get out
and visit some of those, some ofthose places out.
I haven't been out to Antietamyet or any of those places, and
so I want to do those thingsbefore I ultimately retire, but
it's an amazing place.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I did want to hit a couple of things you're working
on that are near and dear toyour heart.
Firefighter pay Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Firefighters were getting paid about $11 an hour.
They were, I mean, you made.
They could make more moneyflipping burgers at McDonald's
in California than they couldfighting wildfires.
And so two years ago threeyears ago now, when the
Democrats were in charge, theyincreased wildfire fighting pay
(40:21):
and we all agreed with it.
The problem problem was is itwasn't authorized.
They just did it in theappropriation bill for a year.
So then we took over and lastyear I tried to get it
authorized and stuff.
We kept the pay level that hadbeen set and our resources
committee said, no, that's anappropriate, that's a
authorizing issue and we want to, we want to do it through the
(40:42):
authorizing committee.
So I said, okay, we'll just doit through the authorizing
committee.
So I said, okay, we'll just doit this one year and then you
guys can do it.
Well, they didn't do anything.
So last year in theappropriation bill we both
authorized and made it permanentto increase the wildfire
fighting pay, and they need to.
It's the only way you canretain and pay these people
what's necessary, because theyput their lives on the line out
there it is.
(41:03):
If you've ever been out to oneof these wildfires and see what
they do, it's amazing.
So they have a permanent payincrease.
We're going to have to increaseit again this year to keep it
up, but we got to staycompetitive.
One of the challenges thatthey're proposing here in this
bill is changing wildfirefighting pay or wildfire
fighters from the forest serviceto the department of interior.
(41:27):
Now the department of interiorhas some wildfire fighting with
blm, but they want to change allthe forest service.
The problem with that is and soI've got to do a lot of talking
with them about why they wantto do that 50 of the forest
service employees have red cards, which means they are qualified
to fight wildfires, and a lotof them do.
Are you going to lose thosepeople?
So there's some questions wehave.
(41:49):
So there's a lot of things thatthe administration has proposed
that may be the right thing,but we just don't have the
justifications yet of wherewe're headed and why we're doing
it and stuff and stuff.
So I suspect these firstbudgets will reflect the
priorities of the president, butnot necessarily go in the full
(42:12):
tilt of what they're proposingin some of these things, like
wildfires.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Well, some of these things are incredibly
complicated issues that you gotto drill down on and find out
what the unintended consequencesof policy are right and
sometimes with government that'spart of the deal right.
What were the unintendedconsequences?
And always require somechanging and fixing right.
Another one I saw on your listthe missing and murdered,
endogenous women crisis have youever heard of that?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
No, I was sitting watching Idaho reports public
television, by the way, a publictelevision program.
I was watching Idaho reportsand they had a woman on there
from the Nez Perce tribe who wasinvolved in the murdered and
missing indigenous women program.
We lose 6,000 men and women andchildren, indigenous women,
(42:58):
indians.
We lose 6,000 a year that gomurdered and missing.
And I'm sitting there listeningto that and saying I've been on
this Interior Committee thatfunds Indians, indian country,
for years and I've never heardthat and so I started asking
questions about it and we held ahearing last year and what you
find out is the biggestchallenge is the jurisdictional
(43:25):
issues.
The FBI has jurisdiction onreservations and stuff.
The reservation hasjurisdiction.
Sometimes the counties andstate have jurisdiction just
outside the boundaries and stuff.
We had one woman testify thatas a teenage girl she was
kidnapped, held for I think itwas four or five days, raped and
(43:48):
repeatedly and stuff and thendumped just outside the
reservation.
So the question is, who hasjurisdiction?
She couldn't identify the cabinthat she was held in.
So do the tribes havejurisdiction because she's
indigenous?
Do the county?
Does the FBI?
And today that guy never gotpunished.
She knows who it is.
She is on the council and oneof her constituents is the guy
(44:12):
that raped and murdered her orraped and abused her and stuff.
We've got to address this, andso we're putting a lot of money
into Indian law enforcement.
I mean, you look at a lot ofthese reservations that are big
as the state of Connecticut andthey have two officers on call
at any given time and when theyget a domestic violence call, it
might be an hour before theycan get there.
(44:34):
Well then it's over.
So we've got to do more inIndian country to address this
really serious problem, and ifthe American people knew that
this is twice as many people aswe lost on 9-11, and it happens
every year I think they would beoutraged and want us to do
something, and that's what we'regoing to do.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Well, thank you.
Thanks for doing that andbringing to light.
One of the things that I'veloved about you and today's no
different is you get prettypassionate about things that
matter to Idahoans.
I am Right, I am, that's whatyou want in your statesman.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
It's the greatest state in the world.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Right, yep, you want someone that's looking out for
our people and fighting for us.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
One of the issues that just came up was the sale
of public lands.
Yeah, a congressman from Nevadasought to transfer nearly a
half million acres in Nevada tostate counties, private industry
that would then sell it off andstuff like that.
(45:31):
And there was 11,000 acres inUtah no-transcript.
And there are people who thinkwe should turn over all the
lands to the state to let themsell off and stuff like that.
(45:51):
But what I've told people ispeople live in Idaho because we
love our public lands.
If you want to go to yourfavorite fishing hole or hunting
grounds, I don't want accessblocked.
Our goal is to make sure thatwe have access and that the
federal government, the ForestService and the BLM are good
neighbors and are doing whatthey should be doing.
I don't think people of Idahowant to sell off our public
lands.
We've got greater response tothat than almost anything that
(46:15):
we've done.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Well said and fiercely defended.
The folks that truly understandthe value of public lands I'm
sure some of your.
I mean there's a reason whythis place is so great and it's
the ability we have to goexplore and do all the things we
do.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Several years ago, when we were trying to pay for I
think it was Hurricane Katrina,a Texas congressman who was a
friend of mine on theAppropriations Committee said
hey, I know how we can pay forthis Hurricane Katrina disaster
relief.
I said how's that?
She says we need to sell offall those public lands in the
West.
And I looked at him you knowTexas doesn't have any public
lands and I said listen.
I said people live in Idahobecause we love our public lands
(46:56):
, so why don't you go take careof Texas?
I'll take care of Idaho.
But we remained friends.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
That's awesome.
Just kind of closing up here.
What does Idaho mean to you?
Speaker 2 (47:12):
It's the place I want to live.
I love our mountains, ourforests, our rivers, our lakes.
My goal is, once I decide toretire and I have a full summer,
I'm going to travel every roadin Idaho Because there's a lot
of places that I go.
Wow, I haven't been therebefore.
(47:33):
I mean, it's a big state andit's a beautiful country.
Whether it's North Idaho,southeast or Southwest Idaho,
it's uniquely different.
Somebody tells me that they goup to Coeur d'Alene.
I said, well, you need to comedown to Sun Valley too.
That's a good place too, and Ilive in Potato Country, which is
kind of a high plains desert.
(47:53):
But in an hour and a half I canbe in Jackson Hole In an hour
and a half I can be inYellowstone, swan Valley.
Yeah, it's just gorgeous countryand the people of idaho are.
I love them, they areunderstanding, they are
opinionated, uh, and they letyou know what, what they're
thinking and stuff which is goodfor a representative to know,
(48:16):
uh, so I I appreciate that, yeahyou, as I reminisce, uh, I
would never do what I did.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
I dipped my toe in politics for a short time.
That once was enough for me,but I don't regret the year and
a half being on the road andtraveling.
We hit almost every town andcity at least a couple times
over that time period, and it'sunbelievable.
It is the state, isgeographically the natural
(48:45):
resources we have the rivers andstreams and lakes but it's the
people.
It is the people.
It's the people in all thoseand very different We've got.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
North.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Idaho that is fiercely kind of independent in
their thing, and you've gotEastern Idaho, which is the same
, and then down west we'redifferent.
Here you got we're all the wayover the border of Oregon and
Washington County and you comeover to Canyon.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
County.
Oregon County is wanting tobecome Idaho.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, it's a wonderful place with diverse
ideas.
Yeah, it is, but they share inthat same heritage of hard work,
taking care of each other.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yep, they share in that same heritage of of hard
work taking care of each other.
Yep, you know, we were alwaysworried that if californians
move here they're going to tryand change our politics and
stuff, that they'd move tosalmon idaho and say where is
your opera, you know, and thatkind of stuff.
But what's happened is actually, if you look at north idaho,
most of the people migratingthere are coming from washington
and oregon.
People in migrating there arecoming from Washington and
(49:44):
Oregon.
People in the Treasure Valleyare coming from California and
people in Southeast Idaho,surprisingly, are coming from
Utah and they've actually madethe state more conservative
because it's the people fromCalifornia that are sick and
tired of the rules andregulations and taxes of
California that have come uphere to be more free.
So, as a general rule, theymade.
(50:06):
Idaho more conservative.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, they give us hell in development, though,
because they come here and thenthey're like, hey, we don't want
anything else to happen here,yeah, so they oppose everything,
yeah that's true Everything.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
That is true Everything, anyway.
And we get to go to a coupleribbon cuttings all over here
for new businesses and stuff.
Idaho's economy is moving.
Brad Little has done afantastic job, I think, keeping
Idaho moving forward and stuff,and I think it's going to grow
and that's going to be achallenge, but it's a challenge
we welcome.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Well, thank you so much.
Thanks for your leadership,Thanks for your constant example
and your friendship.
It means the world to me.
We love having you take care ofus and look out for us back
there.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Well as I told you after your failed gubernatorial
election, which you know, Ithink you would have been a
great governor and stuff, but Itold you to stay involved
because we needed your voice inthis, and so you have, and this
podcast and other things, and Iappreciate that you were very
kind to me when I ran.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
It meant a lot to me.
All right, love you, thanks,thank you.
Thank you, thanks everybody.
Today on the Around Word podcast we have Congressman
Mike Simpson.
Mike is an unbelievablestatesman.
Has been serving the people ofIdaho in Congress in Washington
DC on his 14th term.
We are so excited to get caughtup with Mike, a good friend.
Mike began as a dentist inEastern Idaho, in Blackfoot.
Born in Oakley, idaho, heserved for 12 years in the Idaho
(00:23):
State Legislature before beingelected to Congress.
Can't wait to catch up withMike and hear about everything
going on in Washington DC.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thanks for being on, mike.
Oh, yeah, thanks, I didn't knowyou did the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, we've been doing it too long.
It's been like five years.
Seriously, Can't believe Ihaven't had you on in five years
.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Why didn't I know that?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, you're a hard guy to schedule With Nikki.
No, I'm just kidding.
No, we've done it a while.
When I ran for governor I gotdone and thought, man, it would
be cool to tell all these.
There's great stories in Idahoof kind of average, just people
that do extraordinary things.
So the first year we kind ofdid that.
(01:14):
And then Bill Whitaker, youknow Bill.
Bill was my co-host for a whilebut he travels the world so
much that that was a little hard.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
And then the last two years, we't he up in uh
whitefish or somewhere now?
Yes, he, I saw him at someevent and I hadn't seen him in a
long time and he said we're upjust off one of the lakes, or
whatever he says.
We've got a beautiful place upthere.
He invited me to come up andspend some time with him and
stuff he's.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
He's an amazing guy, yeah it really is so how you
been Good, been good.
How's your last time I was withyou?
You were hobbling around alittle bit on your hip, did it
it's.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I'm at that age where I'm kind of bionic.
Now I've had both knees, thehip, they did surgery on my neck
and stuff.
Then my neck started flaring upa couple of weeks ago or a ago,
I guess it just was killing me,and so my neurosurgeon here.
I had to go back to boise or todc and they hit, hooked me up
(02:13):
with a pain specialist, you knowpain relief stuff.
They gave me some injections inthe neck and put me on celebrex
and stuff and it's been okaysince then.
But just weird shit happens toyou when you get old.
You know, mike, I know.
This is what always bugs me isyour skin gets so thin that you
bump it into a table like thisand all of a sudden you've got a
(02:35):
bruise there.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, no, I know I'm right there with you.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
But other than that I'm doing fine.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
You look good.
Thank you, you look great.
The good thing is when theystarted on my knees, so I had
surgery for different ones foreach knee, the hip, the neck.
I was under for all this andthen they did carpal tunnel and
all this kind of stuff.
My taste buds just went to helland the endocrinologist in D in
DC told me that one of the sideeffects of general anesthetic
(03:09):
they use every one but one, hesaid is that it can affect your
taste buds, he said it doesn'thappen very often and it almost
always comes back.
It's been six years now andfood just tastes like crap.
I have to force myself to eatsomething and consequently I've
gone from a high of 270 and Iwas down to 171 yesterday 100
(03:33):
pounds.
Yeah, 100 pounds over the lastfive or six years.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Wow, you look great, feel better actually.
You look really really good.
Good, that's great Boy, you'vebeen busy, just got a little,
just a little bit going on.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
A little crazy.
Things are going crazy inWashington, but that's okay,
it's.
People are upset about the wayTrump and Doge are doing some of
(04:08):
the things and I've looked atit and we've known that our debt
.
We've got to get it undercontrol and head in the right
direction.
For years and we hadSimpson-Bowles Commission, which
was members of the House,senate, private sector people
got together for about ninemonths and discussed ideas and
stuff.
You know how many of theirideas became law Zero.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
But really good ideas .
By the way, yeah, I rememberreading that stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, good ideas and stuff, but zero of them became
law and then Steny Hoyer, theminority leader at the time in
the House, and me formed the GoBig Coalition in the House to
kind of do the same thing.
Out of all the recommendationswe had, zero became law.
It may be that the only way youcould do this is to come in and
dramatically do it like Dogeand Trump have done.
(04:55):
It's disruptive and everythingelse.
And Elon Musk has actually toldus, said listen, we're going to
screw up, we're going to makemistakes.
We just need to know when we doso we can correct them and
stuff like that.
But it may be the only way thatyou could actually reduce the
size of government and get afterthe waste and abuse and all
that kind of stuff.
I mean, I was stunned.
(05:15):
A lot of these things we don'tknow anything about.
Members of Congress, I wasstunned when I found out that
they keep all personnel recordspaper form in a mine.
It's called Iron Mine and Elonwas told the limitation is you
can only fire a maximum of10,000 people a month.
(05:35):
And he said, why is that?
And they said because we keeptheir records in a mine, an
actual mine, and the elevatorcan only make that many trips up
and down each month.
So that's the limiting factor.
And he said to him he said so,why don't you digitalize this
(05:56):
stuff?
And they said oh, we got moneytwo years ago to start
digitalizing.
He said how's that going?
He says a B.
He says you're givingyourselves a B.
He said no, we're at a letter Bin two years.
So it does take the privatesector, yeah, and while it's
different than government, youcan use business principles in
(06:17):
government and that's whatthey're trying to do.
I think yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
For a guy like you.
Well, first of had, I had russon not too long ago and then you
know, you know, jim rish is my,my buddy now.
Yeah, we farm together oh doyou really and ranch together.
So I get, I get to see him ortalk to him almost every day,
yeah, and I just love him.
But you talk to we.
We have some incredibleleadership back there right now
and the committees that we'rechairing yeah, one that you're
(06:43):
chairing the power that ourlittle state yields back in
Congress right now is prettyimpressive.
Speak to that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Look at our delegation.
We're a delegation of only four.
We've got Crapo in charge ofthe Finance Committee, jim in
charge of the Foreign RelationsCommittee.
In fact, at the end of thisterm I just learned this morning
he will have been chairman ofthe Foreign Relations Committee.
In fact, at the end of thisterm, I just learned this
morning he will have beenchairman of the Foreign
Relations Committee twice aslong as Frank Church was.
Yeah, so I mean that's a prettypowerful position.
(07:12):
I'm on the chair of theInterior Committee, on the
Energy and Water Committee thatI used to chair, and on the
Labor, health and Human ServicesCommittee, and Russ is on
Energy and Commerce and NaturalResources.
So we're spread out good andpretty influential delegation, I
think.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, and you guys work together pretty well.
Yeah, yeah we do Talk about thechanges there.
Since you've been there, you'vehad a storied career, buddy.
I was reading your bio gettingready for this and and I knew a
lot of it, but, um you, you'vebeen back there for 14.
This is my 14th term, 14th termin washington, yep, and and
(07:57):
talk a little bit about thechanges changes in politics in
general, just how things youknow, one of the people interact
.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
One of the biggest changes that I've noticed I
don't know how to say this right, but it's the disrespect so
many people have for theinstitution.
You see members of Congressdoing things that they would
have never done 20 years ago.
They'd have been censored andkicked out of Congress if they
(08:26):
did some of the things.
But you hear some of thespeeches on the floor and stuff
like that and it gets way toopartisan.
And the problem is is thatthose people that are the
problem solvers, if you will,the ones that are in the middle
more or less.
When I came, the Democrats had70 members in what was called a
Blue Dog Coalition and that wasthe conservative Democrats and
(08:49):
we worked with them a lot.
I voted for one of theirbudgets one year because I
thought it was better than ourbudget and stuff.
So there was across the aisleconversations and talk and
working together and that kindof stuff.
There are no Blue Dog Democratsnow because they've either been
beaten in primaries or decidednot to run again by more extreme
people.
Same things happen on our sideand so the sides are becoming
(09:10):
more and more separated andthere's not that base in the
middle.
That brings some sense to thestuff we do and I think that's
the biggest change I've seen.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, it seems well for you.
Just the partisan nature ofeverything.
Yeah, everything that comes upright Makes it hard to do the
business of the country right.
Yep, it really does, and yousee that difference as you've
watched.
Absolutely.
What about the interpersonalrelationships?
Have they changed over theyears too?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
as people, it has to some degree.
I would say the people that Ihang around with has probably
gotten smaller because ourcaucus has gotten more to the
right and stuff and you look atthe Freedom Caucus.
My challenge with them is thatI don't disagree with what
(10:01):
they're trying to do.
They're trying to get ourfiscal house in order and I
think it's the right thing to do.
Problem is they have no idea ofhow to do it.
They have no strategy of how todo it and they think that
closing down the government is alegitimate policy objective.
I don't think it is.
I've never seen a time whenclosing down the government is
good politics or good policy,and so we have differences more
(10:24):
in strategy than we doeverything else, and that was
90% of the debate of trying toget their reconciliation bill
done.
They wanted some other things.
They just have no idea abouthow to get there, and so I don't
hang around with them a lot.
Some of them I do.
But the members across theaisle I still have friends over
there that I talk to and workwith.
(10:46):
Shelly Pingree, who is theranking member on Interior,
we're good friends.
Steny Hoyer and I are stillgood friends and stuff, so we
have those relations, butthey're not as many as there
used to be.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, socially.
Who was I talking to?
I think Jim, someone wastelling me that.
Oh no, maybe it was Butch.
Butch was telling me that backin the day there was a lot of
interaction, families spent timewith families and people spent
time with people, and he said,when people started coming home,
(11:16):
as much the interaction and thefriendships and the bonds that
kind of sometimes would carrythe day on issues is just
different.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think it's the biggest problem we have.
I had a guy who was a member ofCongress that we got a job for
in the Department of Agriculture.
Ralph Harding was a congressmanfrom Idaho Democrat Pretty
surprising now.
He was a good friend.
He was actually one of my dad'sdental patients and he wanted a
job in the Bush administrationwhen Bush got elected and we
(11:44):
helped him get a job in theDepartment of Agriculture and
stuff.
So I talked to him quite a bitbut he said when he got elected
almost every member moved theirfamily back to Washington
because Congress only paid fortravel home about three times a
year, so you'd come home for the4th of July and Christmas or
whatever you know.
Now you have your own member'saccount and you can spend it how
(12:06):
you want to, with somelimitations and stuff, but most
members come home every weekendWith me.
That's too many airplaneflights, that's about nine hours
from door to door and so Idon't do it every weekend, but
it's still a lot of coming home.
But when you had your familiesout there and nobody moves their
families out there now, butthey used to move their families
(12:27):
out there that means you wentto other kids' baseball games
and barbecues and things and youinteracted members from both
parties and stuff and so you gotto know each other and you and
I can disagree vehemently on anissue, but it's hard for me, if
I know you and your wife andyour kids, to start calling you
(12:48):
names on the floor or somethinglike that.
So there was a lot more respectin that happening.
I think Butch is absolutelyright that that's gone away
because members fly home everyweekend and I wish it wasn't
that way, because we do need to,and there have been attempts to
try to, you know, have dinnerswith members of the other party
and that kind of stuff, andthose have always kind of fallen
(13:09):
through and never, never reallygot to know each other.
Like cause, you go to one ofthese dinners and then you're
talking politics and you try toget to know people personally.
When I first got to Congress Isaid I want to, I want to get to
know every other member, and soI had my staff start setting up
15-minute meetings with membersthat I'd just go over and say
Hi, I'm Mike Simpson, I'm fromIdaho, I used to be a dentist,
(13:31):
served in the legislature,didn't want to talk about issues
or anything like that, I justwanted to get to know them.
I wanted to get to know whattheir background was and stuff.
And that was probably the bestthing I ever did, because I got
to know other people that Icould talk to on the floor and
if there was an issue I knew whoI could go talk to on the other
(13:51):
side of the aisle and stuff andwork with, but none of that
happens anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, you know, when I think of you, I think of the
word statesman, that's nice.
But think about that.
Think about what it means to bea statesman and over time, yeah
, and that's what you've been,mike.
Well, I appreciate that and Ilook at the world we live in now
and you've been therepre-iPhone social media.
(14:15):
It seems like a lot of membersof Congress on both sides.
There's the social media shockand awe say something crazy, do
something crazy, and we needmore statesmen that are there to
serve the people.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Well, I appreciate that.
I've had people in Iowa say,well, why don't I see you on TV
every night, like Jim Jordan orsomething like that?
And I'll say to them you know,I could be on TV every single
night if I wanted to, andthey'll go.
Really.
I said, yeah, all I got to dois go say something really,
really stupid, and I guaranteeit'll make the news.
(14:53):
I try to stay off the news asmuch as I can and just do my job
, and I think there's too manypeople that are, and it's
somewhat natural.
I won't say it's completelyforeign to me, but there's too
many people that their wholegoal is to get reelected.
My goal is to do what's bestfor Idaho and for the country
and if I get reelected, I getreelected.
But if you can't defend it, youshouldn't do it.
(15:14):
So that's kind of my goal.
And when you have a two-yearcycle, you're always in an
election, you're always up forre-election, right?
It starts the day after thelast election.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So I think it does drive some behavior right,
Because it is something you'realways thinking about?
Oh, absolutely, it drives somebehavior, but I think you've
been able to.
I've watched you the whole time.
I've known you Just stand upfor the things that are best for
Idaho, for our families, forour people, for our environment.
You just always seem to be thestatesman on the issues and I
(15:46):
love that about you.
I appreciate that, thank youWith the Trump administration
back there now the big beautifulbill just passed, right?
Yeah, by one vote.
Yep by.
Yeah, by one vote.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yep by one vote and one person was asleep and missed
the vote.
He would have voted for it, sotechnically we had two votes.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Technically two Tell us a little bit about it and
then tell us a little bit aboutwhat you think is going to
happen in the Senate.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well, first of all, I try not to predict what's going
to happen to the Senate, but inthe House, all of the
committees.
They have instructions in thebudget resolution that go find
this many dollars in savings andyou know virtually every
authorizing committee has to godo that.
They had all-night sessions.
They worked their rear ends offto get their bills out and
(16:32):
stuff to meet the goals that thebudget committee had sent.
Then they send them back to thebudget committee and they
coalesce them into the one big,beautiful bill and it has some
provisions in there that worryme.
It has some provisions that areabsolutely essential for the
country.
The biggest thing is it startedoff as we've got to extend the
(16:53):
Trump tax cuts from 2017,because if we don't, it's an
automatic 24% increase in taxesacross this country.
And if you're going to addressthe budget deficit, some people
have said how can you talk aboutcutting taxes or extending
these tax cuts when we have thisbig deficit?
The way you address the deficitand the way we balance the
budget in 96, I think it waswhen Clinton and Newt Gingrich-.
(17:16):
It's been a while now, yeah, butthey didn't slash and burn
spending.
What they did is got theeconomy growing, and when the
economy grows we get morerevenue into the federal
government, and in fact they hadso much coming in they didn't
know what to do with all of it.
And the problem was, if you getmore revenue than your annual
budget, there's a tendency tospend it and grow government,
(17:37):
and we need to reverse that, andso the tax cuts were vitally
important.
But then there's a lot of otherprovisions in there where they
had to find savings from waste,fraud and abuse in a variety of
programs, and there is a lot ofthat going on that needs to be
reformed.
People suggest that theDemocrats are saying that we are
(17:58):
trying to cut people off ofMedicare and Medicaid and Social
Security.
Nobody's Social Security isgoing to get touched.
If anybody thinks that I wouldvote to cut Social Security,
they don't know.
My 98-year-old mother, Iwouldn't dare go home.
So that's not going to happenand we're not proposing that.
On Medicare and Medicaid, whatthey're trying to do is cut the
waste, fraud and abuse.
(18:18):
They're trying to cut illegalsoff the rolls that are there and
people you know they said therewas like I can't remember the
number.
It was like over 3 millionpeople on Social Security that
are above the age of 130.
Yeah, and what Musk told us iswe don't know if any of those
people are actually gettingpaychecks from social security.
(18:40):
So there might be a few, butit's not the vast majority of
them.
The problem is that you qualifyfor other programs like
unemployment and other things.
They check to make sure thatyou have a social security
number.
And if you have a socialsecurity number, that's as far
as it goes.
And the problem is he says,your technology.
What he said is your technologysucks because the computers
(19:03):
don't talk to each other and allthis kind of stuff.
So if we can eliminate some ofthat stuff, we can get most of
this money out of waste, fraudand abuse and that kind of stuff
.
And I'm kind of I don't knowyou, being a doctor, I don't
know what you think aboutKennedy's Make America Healthy
Again proposals.
I like the fact that we'relooking at some of the food
(19:24):
additives that we have and allthat kind of stuff, some of the
things I got in a littlediscussion with him about
fluoride on our hearing.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It's interesting.
Yeah, it is.
It's interesting, yeah, it is.
Well, first of all, I'm asWestern, like ER doc Neanderthal
.
Yeah, it bleeds.
Put pressure bone sticking out,put it back in.
Start CPR, basic medicine.
I am a basic medicine guy, sowe're pretty black and white in
(19:56):
the way we see the world, theway we fix things right.
I've listened to a lot in thelast couple of years.
I've really tried to pay moreattention to a lot of the
wellness and whole body stuffand I do listen, I think when
Obamacare passed.
I remember when it passed Yep,and you remember when Biden
(20:16):
whispers in the ear of Obamathis is a big, big F and deal
right.
And I remember half of mypartners kind of freaking out.
You know just, this is going tobe the greatest thing ever.
And I remember sitting in ouroffice having a little group
chat with about five of ussaying this is going to screw
things up Because it didn't gofar enough.
Either we needed to have, youknow, a privatized system and a
(20:38):
federal system of insurance orwe needed to keep government out
of the middle.
And you look at what's happenedsince Obamacare, the layers of
bureaucracy.
I'm going to get to the pointhere.
You look at PBMs and what theyhave done to the cost of drugs.
You look at all of the layers,everyone like, if you go back 20
years ago, what's the layersbetween a physician and a
(20:58):
patient now?
And it's insane, what's gone on?
So all this bureaucracy hasbeen created.
Well, in the middle of all that, there's just money.
I mean the hospital association, the pharmaceutical companies,
everyone's got all this money,so do?
I think that money influenceshealthcare Absolutely 100%.
(21:19):
And I think a lot of thingsthat he talks about are accurate
.
I think that you look at theway the drug companies do their
deal.
I mean, I was a victim of that.
I remember when I trained.
I tell this story I don't tellit very often, but it bothers me
when I was in residency so Iwas in residency in the 90s
there was this big push by thepharmaceutical companies, the
(21:39):
people that made Norco,hydrocodone, right, right,
percocet, oxycodone, and theywould come into the ER.
They would take you on golftrips.
You would come in sometimes andyou'd have a new putter You'd
have, like you know, I was downin Tucson, arizona, in training
and I'd have a whole stack ofPro-V1s and I'm like, oh, and
there was this nice note fromthe drug rep telling me that and
(22:02):
they would put studies, stacksof studies that said that as
doctors we're not treating painwell enough and we should be
sending everyone home with 40 to60 Percocet after an ankle
sprain.
I mean, I lived it right.
Then I moved to Boise.
I'm in Boise, idaho, and Istill remember it was a nice guy
, former NFL player.
He would come in.
I did night shifts.
(22:22):
He'd come in every night andhere's some more Pro-V1s Can I
take you?
Hey, I looked at your record.
You're not prescribing enoughVicodin.
So that happened.
I can't deny it happened,because it happened to me and
guess what?
I was thinking I'm not treatingpain well enough, so I started
prescribing more pain medicine.
So I was part of this problemthat happened, and so I'm always
(22:45):
careful.
There's a lot of opinions and alot of really opinionated people
on a lot of things, and I thinkit's always good to step back
and say, okay, what is the truth?
If you can get the filters ofdollars out of the way and I
think for vaccines, I think forsome of the food stuff he talks
about, I think the food industry.
You look at just refined sugarsand what it's done to America.
(23:09):
You look at our obesity rates.
You look at any chronicdiseases that we have compared
to the rest of the world.
There's something to it.
Yeah, there is.
So I really appreciate theworld.
There's something to it.
Yeah, there is.
I really appreciate the factthat he's looking at it.
Now do I think some of thisstuff sounds kooky to an ER doc?
Yeah, some of it sounds like alittle kooky.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
But you look at the amount of additives we put in
our food versus, as an example,what they do in Europe and stuff
I mean the list that we put inthings you can get a loaf of
bread today that'll stay freshon your shelf for like two
months.
You know what I mean.
It's crazy, that's right, and Igot no problem with them
looking at it and saying are allthese things safe?
(23:47):
Are they really beneficial tous or not?
I remember I got in trouble withpharma because I was one who
said we ought to negotiate drugprices from the start.
The federal government is thebiggest drug purchaser in the
country and when you can go toforeign countries and they
(24:08):
actually will sell these drugsto Germany under cost under what
it costs to produce it, becausethey can get the benefit back
from the United States becausethey overcharge, I love the fact
that Trump came in and saidlisten, we're going to pay the
same thing that foreigncountries do.
We're not going to start payingyou.
All this and I know it made thepharma companies go nuts and
stuff, but that's, I think, avery important move.
And I thought if you lived inMinnesota and you go to Canada
(24:30):
every other day and you have aprescription, you had to be able
to fill it in Canada, as longas they have an FDA sort of
approval process.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Is it not one of the things that's got to get you is
the irony of the political sidesof things nowadays.
I think of my grandparentsstaunch both sides.
I grew up in Magna, utah.
Both grandpas worked forKennecott Copper Mine.
Their fathers worked for theCopper Mine.
They were blue-collar Democratsyeah, socially very
(25:00):
conservative, but they wereDemocrats.
Oh yeah, a lot of those peoplewere FDR Democrats FDR Democrats
.
They were very much FDRDemocrats.
But if you think about whofights for some of this stuff
nowadays the fact that you'vegot Kennedy doing what he's
doing for the Republican Partygoing after big business Is that
(25:20):
weird or what?
And getting crap from theDemocrats, every one of these
issues.
It's like people have losttheir minds on what core values
even meant to anyone.
And I think if you stripped allthat away at some point and
said, hey, is it a good thingthat we have our foods and our
medicines and everything morestudied, that we don't let big
business take advantage for thedollar, that we have our foods
and our medicines and everythingmore studied, that we don't let
big business take advantage forthe dollar, that we protect
(25:42):
people, I think people would sayyes on both sides.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I think there's a great deal of support for what
Kennedy is his vision, what he'strying to do, while there is
like I have a problem with hisfluoride stuff.
They took fluoride.
They banned fluoride frompediatric drops, you know, and
that's when it's reallyimportant.
But the CDC the day they bannedit I was reading their press
(26:10):
release and it happened to bethe day Kennedy was testifying
for our committee and Kennedyagreed with the statement by the
CDC and it said we need toeliminate fluoride because it
can affect your biosystem,because it kills bacteria, just
like it kills bacteria toprevent tooth decay.
That's not how fluoride works.
Fluoride works by strengtheningyour enamel, not by killing the
(26:33):
bacteria and stuff.
At one time they tried.
Why don't we put penicillin intoothpaste?
Well, that killed the bacteria,but it let all the other things
grow that were bad.
So you know we've done morestudies on things like that, but
I agree with what he's tryingto do overall.
I was riding up in the elevatorwith Steny Hoyer, who is a good
friend of mine, to the hearingwith JFK and I says well, we get
(26:56):
to go listen to your man, jfk,and he looked at me and says
he's yours now.
But some exciting things arehappening and it is disruptive
and people get nervous and allthat kind of stuff.
I'm a little nervous of whatthey're trying to do with
wildfire fighting, trying tomove it from the Forest Service
(27:17):
over to the Department ofInterior.
I want to know what's theirjustification.
What are they trying toaccomplish?
Why are they doing that?
But we don't have any of thatyet from the budget request, so
we're going to invest in thatkind of stuff and see what's
happening.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Well, my good friend's waiting to be for his
appointment, mike Boron, or hisconfirmation, and yeah, he can't
wait to get to work, but ittakes a while.
He's now saying it may be endof the summer.
It takes a while.
You don't realize until youhave someone going through it.
It takes a while it takes.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I actually think this is just my personal opinion.
I think the Senate confirms toomany positions.
If you are the press secretaryfor the undersecretary of this,
you know you got to getconfirmed.
That's exaggeration, but they Ithink they spend too much time
doing confirmations and stuff.
Top people got no problem withthat, but uh, borin has to get
confirmed.
Uh, and of course we got thenew head of the chief of the
(28:14):
forest services is uh, fromidaho and stuff.
So Tom Schultz and he's doing agreat job.
So I have some connectionsthere I can talk to about what's
going on and stuff.
But I look forward to Mikegetting confirmed too and I
think he'll do a good job.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, he's he's, he's excited.
I don't know why he's soexcited.
He has a pretty good life.
I was going to say why did youwant to?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I asked him that why did you want to do this?
I asked Elon Musk this whenseveral of us were in a meeting
with him.
I said why are you doing this?
I said you could be on a yachtin the Caribbean drinking Mai
Tais, just enjoying yourself.
You know, he says.
I thought about that, he said,but I came to the conclusion
that this is the last chancewe've got to save this country
(28:53):
and if we don't get headed inthe right direction, this
country is going down and all ofus are going down with.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
So that's why I'm doing it, which is a pretty big
sacrifice on his part.
Yeah, Do you think?
Do you think we ever get to abudget, to we're headed in the
right direction?
Do?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
you think that happens.
The, the reconciliation billheads us in the right direction.
It's not everything everybodywanted and I've always told
people it's not really where youstand.
It's what direction you'reheaded that counts, and I think
we're headed in the rightdirection with that, and there
will be more coming up in thenext year's budget and that kind
of stuff.
(29:30):
If you look at what we'retrying to appropriate money for
next year.
I was just talking to my staffthis morning from the Interior
Committee about the cuts thatwe're going to do in Interior
and where we're going to makethem and stuff.
Unfortunately, it's a lot ofprograms that a lot of people
like.
But you got to ask yourself isit necessary?
Not when you're sitting therewith a $37 trillion debt.
I mean, that's the biggestexistential threat to our
(29:52):
country is our debt.
It's not China, it's not Iran,it's not Russia, it's our debt.
And if we don't get that undercontrol and headed in the right
direction and we will, but it'lltake some work and it will take
some pain that people will cryabout, and I understand that
fully.
I really do.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Well, as a taxpayer and just a citizen, it's nice
that it's being talked about too.
I remember well Democrats hadthey had control of our
government from the executivebranch for 16 out of 20 years.
Right, yeah, Right.
And you don't hear about thedeficit one time when they're in
(30:28):
.
But during Trump's firstpresidency you didn't hear it
either.
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Very much.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I mean you look at the chances then to try to
address a problem and then itwould have been eight years ago,
yeah, so it's really nice thatwe're addressing it.
It's a big issue, it's a hardthing, but that's what we need,
right?
I?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
think really what you're seeing out of this
administration.
You'll notice Trump came in andon day one started signing
executive orders and everythingelse and a lot of those
executive orders I agree with.
He learned from his four yearsthat he was president, that he
was under fire every day forimpeachment, for this or that or
(31:08):
whatever, and false stories outthere and actually put out by
the Clinton campaign.
I mean he lived that for fouryears and I think then he had
four years off to sit and saywhat would I do differently?
And he knows that the first twoyears, especially the first
year, maximum, but the first twoyears, especially the first
year maximum.
But the first two years is thetime you've got to get something
done.
(31:28):
And so that's why I think hehit the ground running and
started appointing these people,and I'm kind of excited about
his cabinet appointees too.
People were going, ah, theseare people we don't know and
whatever.
That's okay.
There's not a better secretaryof state than Marco Rubio.
This guy knows what he's doing.
I love him.
My Cuban friends are goodpeople.
(31:50):
He's been strong.
He's been very, very strong.
But Lee Zeldin at EPA.
He's going to take some realhits in his budget, but he's
going to do what the EPA isdirected to do.
My first term as chairman ofthis interior committee, the
first five years there, we cutthe EPA's budget by 17% over
(32:11):
that period of time and Ithought we were doing pretty
good.
They want to really cut theEPA's budget.
But there's a lot of people saywell, why do you do these state
and local tribal grants andstuff that help water systems
and sewer systems and localcommunities?
Because they're enforcingfederal law.
So federal government helpswith the funding of that to some
degree and so we'll be doingsome of that.
But they had an EPA museumSound kind of weird, An EPA
(32:37):
museum set up and I can'tremember how many million it
cost to operate and everything.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I'm just thinking of some of my farmer friends.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Do you know how many people came in last year?
2,000.
That's like what?
Four, five, six a day came into visit this EPA museum.
And I don't know of anybodythat comes to Washington that
says, hey, let's go visit theWashington Monument, no, let's
go to the EPA museum.
Oh, that's good.
To the EPA Museum.
But he cut that out and we'refinding that kind of stuff
(33:07):
throughout government and Ithink it took eyes from outside
to look at it to tell us whatwas going on.
To some degree, that's great.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Hey, tell me a little bit about your heritage in
growing up.
And your dad was a dentist Yep,he inspired you to be one.
And then you got into politics,kind of took off, but talk a
little bit.
One of the things I've one ofthe reasons I still do this
podcast thing is I really likehearing about the why behind
people.
Sure, and for you, who was itthat inspired you at a young age
(33:38):
to be what you've become?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Well, you know I was.
We lived in Oakley, idaho.
I was born in Burley because mymother had to go to the
hospital in Burley and I had togo along.
So I was born in Burley andthen we lived in California for
a few years while dad was inKorea and when he got out of the
(33:59):
service we moved to Blackfoot,idaho.
They grew up in Oakley, idaho,and that's where they got
engaged and got married and allthat kind of stuff.
And my dad was a dentist and myuncle was a dentist.
His brother and I went tocollege at Utah State and I was
a political science majorbecause I loved the study of
(34:21):
politics, not necessarily beinga bureaucrat and working for
government I don't mean that ina negative term, but I didn't
want to work for the government,but I liked the policy
decisions and stuff.
But then what do you do with apolitical science degree?
And I liked the biologicalsciences.
So I switched to thepre-dentistry and went to dental
school in St Louis andgraduated and came back and set
(34:42):
up practice with my dad and myuncle and practiced with them
for until my dad retired andthen my uncle and I and then my
cousin joined us, so we hadthree dentists there at the time
, but after I was practicing forabout three, I graduated in 77
from dental school and I waspracticing for about three years
(35:04):
.
I picked up the morning news oneday, the Blackfoot paper, and
it said that there were twoseats open on the Blackfoot city
council and only one person hadfiled and the deadline was the
next day.
And so I thought, wow, this isa way to get into politics, you
know.
So I went down and gotten 50signatures and signed up seven
to five other people and thatmeant you had to go to debates
(35:26):
and stuff and I, like mostAmericans, the number one fear
we have is speaking in public.
So I'm kind of do I really wantto do this?
Do I want to go to the Leagueof Women Voters debate and all
that kind of stuff?
So I but I ran and I we knewwho would get the most votes and
I came in second.
I got two,016 votes and the guyin third place got 1,008.
(35:49):
So I won by eight votes.
So if me and my wife, my dad andmy brother and my mother had
voted the other way, I wouldhave never run again, because
having public speaking was theworst thing in the world for me.
But I got elected, served fouryears on the city council and a
state legislator from my areawas retiring and I talked to him
(36:12):
about it and stuff and thepart-time legislature in Idaho.
I could actually come over hereand I got elected there to the
state legislature.
But I could come over and workin the state legislature, go
home Friday afternoon andpractice, practice Saturday,
take care of the state hospitalpatients on Sunday and then come
back over.
So I did that for like 14 yearsand became Speaker of the House
(36:34):
.
Never thought I'd be Speaker ofthe House, but-.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Did you enjoy your time as Speaker?
I did.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
That's the best job I've ever had.
The Speaker of the House is anamazing.
It takes you a while to realizewhat authorities you have.
You got a lot of Speaker of theHouse.
It didn't take Moira long yeah,some people learn quicker than
I do but it was.
I was going to either retire orI was going to run for governor
(37:04):
and Dirk Kempthorne at that timedecided to come back and run
for governor and Crapo movedfrom the House seat that I have
over to the Senate, so it openedup the second congressional
district.
And I said to my wife I saidyou know that all those years
you worked to put me throughdental school and now we took
time to build a practice.
We've got a practice.
If we wanted to go to Hawaiinext week, we could pack up and
go to Hawaii for a couple ofweeks.
You know if that's what wewanted to do.
And I said how would you liketo give that all up?
(37:26):
Decrease your salary by abouthalf, and every two years you
got to ask people to send youback.
And she said this surprised meNot coming from her, though
she's a pretty smart woman.
She said I've watched you overthe last several years, those
three months of the year inBoise during the legislative
session, in your home, workingon weekends and stuff, said
(37:47):
you're busier than heck.
And then those times whereyou're just practicing dentistry
, the nine months of the yearsays you're happier those three
months when you're busier.
And so she said let's go try it.
So we ran for Congress and beenhere ever since.
That's how I got involved, butit was I can't say it was a
specific issue or something likethat that drove me to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I liked the debate in the politics of Do you remember
the first time you went backthere, the first time after
you'd been elected, and walkingin, did the grandeur of it all
hit you?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I always say, if I ever, usually we go over to the
Capitol from my office on thetunnels and stuff, but if I walk
outside and I walk over to theCapitol, if I don't get
goosebumps I shouldn't be there.
It's amazing.
I can remember the first time Iwas walking up the staircase
around by the house chamber andthe marble there is kind of
dished out, old, and I said, man, this is the people's house,
(38:43):
why don't they replace thesemarbles, these marble steps and
stuff?
And then I thought to myselfthink of the people that have
walked up and down here.
Abraham Lincoln, davy Crockett,I mean you know, the heroes of
this country have walked up anddown these steps.
Okay, I get it, I know why theydon't, but it is a fascinating
place and it is.
I love giving tours of theCapitol or a staff giving tours,
(39:06):
and people are amazed.
It's a beautiful place.
Everybody hates Washington DC.
Every politician says you knowI'm leaving there when I retire,
I'm coming back to Idaho.
I'm not going to be one ofthose people that stays in DC,
but I got to tell you in allhonesty, the one thing I will
regret is that I haven't takenthe time to take full advantage
(39:27):
of living there and stuff.
I'm kind of a civil war freakand the civil war happened
within a hundred miles of DC,you know, and I need to get out
and visit some of those, some ofthose places out.
I haven't been out to Antietamyet or any of those places, and
so I want to do those thingsbefore I ultimately retire, but
it's an amazing place.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I did want to hit a couple of things you're working
on that are near and dear toyour heart.
Firefighter pay Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Firefighters were getting paid about $11 an hour.
They were, I mean, you made.
They could make more moneyflipping burgers at McDonald's
in California than they couldfighting wildfires.
And so two years ago threeyears ago now, when the
Democrats were in charge, theyincreased wildfire fighting pay
(40:21):
and we all agreed with it.
The problem problem was is itwasn't authorized.
They just did it in theappropriation bill for a year.
So then we took over and lastyear I tried to get it
authorized and stuff.
We kept the pay level that hadbeen set and our resources
committee said, no, that's anappropriate, that's a
authorizing issue and we want to, we want to do it through the
(40:42):
authorizing committee.
So I said, okay, we'll just doit through the authorizing
committee.
So I said, okay, we'll just doit this one year and then you
guys can do it.
Well, they didn't do anything.
So last year in theappropriation bill we both
authorized and made it permanentto increase the wildfire
fighting pay, and they need to.
It's the only way you canretain and pay these people
what's necessary, because theyput their lives on the line out
there it is.
(41:03):
If you've ever been out to oneof these wildfires and see what
they do, it's amazing.
So they have a permanent payincrease.
We're going to have to increaseit again this year to keep it
up, but we got to staycompetitive.
One of the challenges thatthey're proposing here in this
bill is changing wildfirefighting pay or wildfire
fighters from the forest serviceto the department of interior.
(41:27):
Now the department of interiorhas some wildfire fighting with
blm, but they want to change allthe forest service.
The problem with that is and soI've got to do a lot of talking
with them about why they wantto do that 50 of the forest
service employees have red cards, which means they are qualified
to fight wildfires, and a lotof them do.
Are you going to lose thosepeople?
So there's some questions wehave.
(41:49):
So there's a lot of things thatthe administration has proposed
that may be the right thing,but we just don't have the
justifications yet of wherewe're headed and why we're doing
it and stuff and stuff.
So I suspect these firstbudgets will reflect the
priorities of the president, butnot necessarily go in the full
(42:12):
tilt of what they're proposingin some of these things, like
wildfires.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Well, some of these things are incredibly
complicated issues that you gotto drill down on and find out
what the unintended consequencesof policy are right and
sometimes with government that'spart of the deal right.
What were the unintendedconsequences?
And always require somechanging and fixing right.
Another one I saw on your listthe missing and murdered,
endogenous women crisis have youever heard of that?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
No, I was sitting watching Idaho reports public
television, by the way, a publictelevision program.
I was watching Idaho reportsand they had a woman on there
from the Nez Perce tribe who wasinvolved in the murdered and
missing indigenous women program.
We lose 6,000 men and women andchildren, indigenous women,
(42:58):
indians.
We lose 6,000 a year that gomurdered and missing.
And I'm sitting there listeningto that and saying I've been on
this Interior Committee thatfunds Indians, indian country,
for years and I've never heardthat and so I started asking
questions about it and we held ahearing last year and what you
find out is the biggestchallenge is the jurisdictional
(43:25):
issues.
The FBI has jurisdiction onreservations and stuff.
The reservation hasjurisdiction.
Sometimes the counties andstate have jurisdiction just
outside the boundaries and stuff.
We had one woman testify thatas a teenage girl she was
kidnapped, held for I think itwas four or five days, raped and
(43:48):
repeatedly and stuff and thendumped just outside the
reservation.
So the question is, who hasjurisdiction?
She couldn't identify the cabinthat she was held in.
So do the tribes havejurisdiction because she's
indigenous?
Do the county?
Does the FBI?
And today that guy never gotpunished.
She knows who it is.
She is on the council and oneof her constituents is the guy
(44:12):
that raped and murdered her orraped and abused her and stuff.
We've got to address this, andso we're putting a lot of money
into Indian law enforcement.
I mean, you look at a lot ofthese reservations that are big
as the state of Connecticut andthey have two officers on call
at any given time and when theyget a domestic violence call, it
might be an hour before theycan get there.
(44:34):
Well then it's over.
So we've got to do more inIndian country to address this
really serious problem, and ifthe American people knew that
this is twice as many people aswe lost on 9-11, and it happens
every year I think they would beoutraged and want us to do
something, and that's what we'regoing to do.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Well, thank you.
Thanks for doing that andbringing to light.
One of the things that I'veloved about you and today's no
different is you get prettypassionate about things that
matter to Idahoans.
I am Right, I am, that's whatyou want in your statesman.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
It's the greatest state in the world.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Right, yep, you want someone that's looking out for
our people and fighting for us.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
One of the issues that just came up was the sale
of public lands.
Yeah, a congressman from Nevadasought to transfer nearly a
half million acres in Nevada tostate counties, private industry
that would then sell it off andstuff like that.
(45:31):
And there was 11,000 acres inUtah no-transcript.
And there are people who thinkwe should turn over all the
lands to the state to let themsell off and stuff like that.
(45:51):
But what I've told people ispeople live in Idaho because we
love our public lands.
If you want to go to yourfavorite fishing hole or hunting
grounds, I don't want accessblocked.
Our goal is to make sure thatwe have access and that the
federal government, the ForestService and the BLM are good
neighbors and are doing whatthey should be doing.
I don't think people of Idahowant to sell off our public
lands.
We've got greater response tothat than almost anything that
(46:15):
we've done.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Well said and fiercely defended.
The folks that truly understandthe value of public lands I'm
sure some of your.
I mean there's a reason whythis place is so great and it's
the ability we have to goexplore and do all the things we
do.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Several years ago, when we were trying to pay for I
think it was Hurricane Katrina,a Texas congressman who was a
friend of mine on theAppropriations Committee said
hey, I know how we can pay forthis Hurricane Katrina disaster
relief.
I said how's that?
She says we need to sell offall those public lands in the
West.
And I looked at him you knowTexas doesn't have any public
lands and I said listen.
I said people live in Idahobecause we love our public lands
(46:56):
, so why don't you go take careof Texas?
I'll take care of Idaho.
But we remained friends.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
That's awesome.
Just kind of closing up here.
What does Idaho mean to you?
Speaker 2 (47:12):
It's the place I want to live.
I love our mountains, ourforests, our rivers, our lakes.
My goal is, once I decide toretire and I have a full summer,
I'm going to travel every roadin Idaho Because there's a lot
of places that I go.
Wow, I haven't been therebefore.
(47:33):
I mean, it's a big state andit's a beautiful country.
Whether it's North Idaho,southeast or Southwest Idaho,
it's uniquely different.
Somebody tells me that they goup to Coeur d'Alene.
I said, well, you need to comedown to Sun Valley too.
That's a good place too, and Ilive in Potato Country, which is
kind of a high plains desert.
(47:53):
But in an hour and a half I canbe in Jackson Hole In an hour
and a half I can be inYellowstone, swan Valley.
Yeah, it's just gorgeous countryand the people of idaho are.
I love them, they areunderstanding, they are
opinionated, uh, and they letyou know what, what they're
thinking and stuff which is goodfor a representative to know,
(48:16):
uh, so I I appreciate that, yeahyou, as I reminisce, uh, I
would never do what I did.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
I dipped my toe in politics for a short time.
That once was enough for me,but I don't regret the year and
a half being on the road andtraveling.
We hit almost every town andcity at least a couple times
over that time period, and it'sunbelievable.
It is the state, isgeographically the natural
(48:45):
resources we have the rivers andstreams and lakes but it's the
people.
It is the people.
It's the people in all thoseand very different We've got.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
North.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Idaho that is fiercely kind of independent in
their thing, and you've gotEastern Idaho, which is the same
, and then down west we'redifferent.
Here you got we're all the wayover the border of Oregon and
Washington County and you comeover to Canyon.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
County.
Oregon County is wanting tobecome Idaho.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, it's a wonderful place with diverse
ideas.
Yeah, it is, but they share inthat same heritage of hard work,
taking care of each other.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yep, they share in that same heritage of of hard
work taking care of each other.
Yep, you know, we were alwaysworried that if californians
move here they're going to tryand change our politics and
stuff, that they'd move tosalmon idaho and say where is
your opera, you know, and thatkind of stuff.
But what's happened is actually, if you look at north idaho,
most of the people migratingthere are coming from washington
and oregon.
People in migrating there arecoming from Washington and
(49:44):
Oregon.
People in the Treasure Valleyare coming from California and
people in Southeast Idaho,surprisingly, are coming from
Utah and they've actually madethe state more conservative
because it's the people fromCalifornia that are sick and
tired of the rules andregulations and taxes of
California that have come uphere to be more free.
So, as a general rule, theymade.
(50:06):
Idaho more conservative.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, they give us hell in development, though,
because they come here and thenthey're like, hey, we don't want
anything else to happen here,yeah, so they oppose everything,
yeah that's true Everything.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
That is true Everything, anyway.
And we get to go to a coupleribbon cuttings all over here
for new businesses and stuff.
Idaho's economy is moving.
Brad Little has done afantastic job, I think, keeping
Idaho moving forward and stuff,and I think it's going to grow
and that's going to be achallenge, but it's a challenge
we welcome.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Well, thank you so much.
Thanks for your leadership,Thanks for your constant example
and your friendship.
It means the world to me.
We love having you take care ofus and look out for us back
there.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Well as I told you after your failed gubernatorial
election, which you know, Ithink you would have been a
great governor and stuff, but Itold you to stay involved
because we needed your voice inthis, and so you have, and this
podcast and other things, and Iappreciate that you were very
kind to me when I ran.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
It meant a lot to me.
All right, love you, thanks,thank you.
Thank you, thanks everybody.
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