What happens when small towns can no longer afford to exist—and when personal healthcare freedoms are put at risk in the same state?
In this powerful episode of Ever Onward, Kelley Packer—Executive Director of the Idaho Association of Cities, former state legislator, and co-founder of the Idaho Contraceptive Education Network (ICEN)—joins us for a candid conversation about two urgent and deeply personal battles playing out across Idaho.
First, we dig into the looming crisis facing local governments. With over 80% of Idaho cities home to fewer than 5,000 residents, recent property tax restrictions have left small towns without the means to fund essential services. In fact, three historic Idaho communities have already dissolved completely. Packer describes how cities are being forced to “manage to bad policy,” holding together critical infrastructure with “bailing wire and duct tape” while warnings from local leaders continue to be ignored at the state level.
Then, the conversation takes a surprising turn.
A pro-life Republican and longtime public servant, Kelley shares why she’s become a leading voice for protecting access to contraception in Idaho. After the overturning of Roe v. Wade, she and two fellow Republican women launched ICEN to ensure Idahoans have the education, resources, and freedom to make informed decisions about family planning. She draws a clear line between contraception and abortion and explains how birth control is essential not only for reproductive autonomy, but for economic stability, workforce participation, and the treatment of medical conditions like endometriosis and ovarian cysts.
We also explore:
- Why property tax reform has created unintended consequences for local government
- How civil discourse can build common ground in divisive times
- The personal stories that drive Kelley’s advocacy for contraceptive access
- What’s at stake if Idaho doesn’t act on either issue
Kelley Packer’s unique perspective—shaped by years of public service, personal experience, and a deep love for Idaho—offers a rare, unfiltered look at two of the most pressing issues facing the state today.
Resources Mentioned:
🏛 Idaho Association of Cities → idahocities.org
💊 Idaho Contraceptive Education Network → IdahoCEN.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today on the Ever Onward podcast we have Kelly
Packer, a longtime friend.
Former legislator, ran forlieutenant governor in the state
and now has been serving forsix years as the executive
director of the IdahoAssociation of Cities.
She most recently has formed anew group called the Idaho
Contraceptive Education Network,or ICEN.
It will be great to get caughtup with Kelly on all things
(00:23):
about cities and government andthen this important initiative
that she has started thatsurrounds contraception and
protecting that right in Idaho.
Kelly Packer, how have you been?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I've been doing really well, yep.
Family's good Family's've beendoing really well, yep.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Doing great, family's good.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Family's really really doing well.
All my kids are married andhaving kids.
I have nine grandkids andlife's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Oh my goodness, there's nothing better than
grandkids.
Amen to that.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, my mom used to always say you know, grandkids
are your reward for not killingyour kids, and I really took
exception to that because I wasone of the kids right.
But now I get it, Are theyclose by?
I've got one daughter and threeof my grandchildren are here in
Caldwell.
The others are still inSoutheast Idaho but they're
still close, either Pocatello orShelly, and they're wonderful.
I go home a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It's the best Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
It's the best.
I have three and man every day,and man every day.
It's funny because my daughter,brooklyn, has three.
I used to always say when shewas little a day without the
Diddy ain't a day worth living.
That was her nickname.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Oh, that's cute.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
And now it's kind of transitioned to her kids.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's like a day without seeing those kids.
It's amazing, but there's areason we have kids when we're
young.
I had my four-year-old andone-year-old granddaughter and
grandson last weekend for anextended stay and oh my goodness
.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I was like I'm too old for this.
We went down to Lagoon lastweekend but Cash sleeps with us
every night in the hotel andhe's our guy.
And how old is he?
Five.
But man, that kid's internalalarm clock.
It doesn't matter how hard yougo the next day, before what
time you go to bed 5.45, andit's like Papa, papa, it's time,
it's time I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Let's go Wasting the sun.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, so I know what you're saying, yeah, they leave
and you just like go.
Oh, I'm old.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Well, thank you for coming on.
I have fond memories of ourtime traveling around the state
together, and you and your RV,my big RV.
Yeah, so for people listening,kelly ran for lieutenant
governor in 18.
18, yep.
The same year.
I was running for governor.
So we went to all the sameLincoln days together.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It was a trek, wasn't it A?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
lot of work.
Listened to each other'sspeeches.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Over and over Hundreds and hundreds of times.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
It's really funny.
Matthew used to be able to doit, so Janice McGee and Anna
Witt and I still to this day, Istill there was.
How many of you were in therace?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
There was five, and that's the whole reason.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
There were five in the race right she won, but I
still swear I would put anyamount of money amount.
The only reason she won was itwas the only clearly female name
.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Agreed.
I actually had somebody say tome why don't you change your
name to just Y instead of E-Y?
And I was like well, becausethis is what my parents named me
.
I don't want the campaign thatyou know.
I don't want the election thatmuch.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Anyway, matthew used to be able to do kind of a spot
on impression of her speech,because you hear each other's
speeches the whole time, right?
Anyway, he would break intothat for years afterwards and it
would always be just the crowdfavorite.
But anyway, it was fun.
Got to see Idaho, got to loveIdaho.
Oh, beautiful state yeah, andsome good times, good memories,
(03:55):
and you meet people in ways thatyou just wouldn't get to know
them otherwise.
And so then you went from thereto now.
You've been the director of theIdaho Association of Cities for
Going on six years now.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, it's been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
And I know that's not kind of what you're here to
talk about today, but tell us alittle bit about the Idaho
Association of Cities.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Oh, it's an amazing organization that's been around
for what?
78 years now and it's been anhonor to be their executive
director for the last five and ahalf From the campaign.
I actually went and led anagency for Governor Little for a
year and a half and then hadsome of my mayors from when I
(04:36):
was a legislator from down inSoutheast Idaho area reach out
and say you know, we've beenwithout an executive director
for a number of months and we'dlove to have you come and lead
that organization if you would.
And it took me a minute to makethat decision, but I'm glad I
did.
We get to help them with all oftheir education and technical
assistance and support, but alsoa really important role is the
(04:59):
advocacy that we do for them atthe Statehouse and in DC on city
issues and there's a lot ofthem right and very important to
everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, and you're doing such a great job.
I also.
It's strange because you knowthe community you live in and
most of our population is herein the Treasure Valley, just the
way it is.
So when we think of mayors, wethink of Mayor Simpson and Mayor
McLean Sure, and you just thinkof these big city mayors and
(05:28):
the great work they do.
One of the things for me when Itraveled around and met with
people, I met with almost everymayor in every town we ever went
to and the job is heavy.
It's huge.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
You figure out of our 197 cities, 165 have 5,000 or
less people.
It's a part-time mayor.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So 165 have 5,000 or less part-time mayor.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Part-time council trying to just take care of the
community.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I remember being in cafes with these guys and gals
and sitting down and saying, hey, what are your challenges?
And a lot of times they wouldbreak out into tears and they
would just say, hey, we have awater or sewer treatment plant,
we have a school that's fallingdown, we have roads that we
can't fix, we have staff wecan't keep and honestly you
(06:13):
would want to help but you wouldgo.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Where do I?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
start.
I'm so sorry.
I'll pray for you and I don'tknow what to do.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Right and that's why the association is so important,
because we work really hardtrying to educate legislators
about the policy decisions theymake and how that impacts, a lot
of times negatively, thosecommunities that are trying to
hold things together and ourbusinesses and our citizens and
everybody relies on thatinfrastructure.
You know the city is that thatfirst core infrastructure areas
(06:46):
that you know goes, trickles outinto the county and then
trickles out into the state andso forth.
I mean the majority of ourroads are local roads that are
here in the state.
The water and sewer, it's allcity.
You do have some sewer andwater districts but they're few
and far between it's.
Yeah, I mean it's the core ofwhat makes up Idaho's economy.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, and I think one of the most important things
you do, the advocacy work you dois at the legislature you serve
.
How many terms did you servethere?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Three, three terms.
So you know how that processworks or doesn't, as the case
might be and there.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I think one of the things that you see like I
always bring.
It's a great example.
Because in medicine, right,when you learn medicine, it's
the Hippocratic Oath first do noharm, right, right.
And a lot of times these billsthat pass are often targeted at
specific issues in a specificjurisdiction right, absolutely,
true, a specific jurisdictionright, absolutely.
(07:43):
And because Ada County andCanyon County are so large, or
Bonneville County some of thecounties in our state are so
large, you'll have a lot ofthese bills and legislation that
will target issues that votersand constituents see as issues
there and oftentimes thedownstream effects of how that
legislation will affecteverybody else.
You're there to fight andprotect and help and educate.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Absolutely, it's really a key component of what
we do at the association.
I mean, the other key componentis then helping them facilitate
relationships and conversationswith people that can help maybe
make ends meet, especially inthose smaller jurisdictions.
But, yes, that is one of themost important things we do
Because I mean, like last year,we had 75 bills that came out
(08:30):
that would impact cities eitherpositively or negatively, and
that's pretty typical.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So what are some?
The bill that capped it'skilling cities.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It's killing cities.
We've lost three cities sincethat bill passed.
Yeah, so talk about that citiessince that bill passed.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, so talk about that bill in a little bit,
because I think everyone I talkto brings the bill up.
They're like this is House Bill389.
I'll never forget the number,and 389 was supposed to.
I think the intention was hey,we're going to try to help
protect taxpayers, and what itreally does.
(09:08):
And the hypocrisy is it.
They say growth, pay for growth, but it basically did the
opposite.
Right, so you had a bill thatwas intended for one thing, that
has done the opposite thing,but it's not going.
It hasn't gone away.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I mean no because the egos that are involved in that
bill won't let it go away andwe've had lots of conversations
with them about exactly whatit's doing.
I mean it.
It passed in 2021.
In 2022, we lost Atomic City,which is one of the oldest
cities in Idaho, and it's nowgone because they could no
longer meet the revenue needsfor the water and sewer
(09:36):
treatment plant.
They had put together afive-year and 10-year plan to do
improvements that were criticalto the health and safety of
that water and sewer system andcouldn't do it, so they had to
unincorporate, which meant thatthat went to the counties.
Who's not in the water andsewer business?
So they had to find a privateentity or a sewer and water
district I don't know which onethey did to take it over.
(09:58):
The need doesn't go away.
And then in 2023, we lost Hamer, and then last year we lost
Oxford.
This year we have three lookingat unincorporating because they
just can't meet the need withrevenues.
And the way property tax was setup and worked well for over 20
(10:18):
years was that it was a 3% cap.
We already had a cap.
We already had a cap Over thelast three years, right?
And then plus, plus, plus, andthose pluses were new
construction, which is growth,annexation of an area that's
grown in the county that'scoming into the city, which is
growth or reclassification.
And what they did is they tooka percentage.
(10:40):
It changed the percentage soyou can't capture 100% of the
value, only 80 or 90, dependingon what we're talking about and
then they capped it at 8%.
So let's say a city takes thefull 3%, which most cities
didn't Usually it was around theone one and a half percent area
and then they bank the rest forfuture needs, capital
(11:01):
improvement needs down the road.
But let's just say they takethe full 3%, that means they
only have another 5% that theycan access from those other
categories and you look like acity of star that's had an
average of about 20% growth overthe last 5, 10 years.
Well, if they can only take 5%of that 20% growth, who's paying
(11:25):
for the additional servicedemands?
What do they say to that?
It falls on deaf ears.
I really can't answer that,tommy.
I don't know.
It's really mind-boggling to mebecause I've said really
there's only three ways toreduce homeowner property taxes.
(11:45):
That is to either shift andbalance it different between all
the different taxpayers thecorporate and utilities and
homeowners which nobody wants todo and that's fine.
Reduce services, which mostpeople don't want to do, because
the bulk of the budgets inmunicipalities is emergency
(12:07):
services.
So you want our police fire,our medical ones to be reduced
right, and then the only otherthing is to increase other
revenue streams, local optiontax, for example, or something
of that nature.
And that is not going to happenAgain, because of those same
folks.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Thank you for explaining.
We've talked about it before onthis podcast, but the irony of
all ironies is somehow thelegislature is getting away with
cutting police fire.
They're cutting services thatpeople need and not allowing
growth to pay for growth Rightright, and I've even said this
(12:45):
if our infrastructuredeteriorates and defaults
completely, who pays?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
The state's going to ultimately pay, because commerce
doesn't travel on gravel roadsand infrastructure.
Businesses the majority ofbusinesses are in a city
footprint and they rely on thewater, they rely on the sewer,
they rely on the streets.
They, you know, for all of that.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So is there?
Do you think there's like likein some of these issues we're
facing right now with policythat's just not good policy?
Is it just things have to getbad enough before there's a
breaking point, becauseotherwise they don't listen and
that's kind of it's a.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
In fact I've even said that to my members.
It's a defeatist kind ofattitude.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
It's really sad, but it kind of like is it's going to
have to get really bad beforethey do something?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yes, and don't get me wrong, I've sat in those seats.
I know it's hard to be alegislator.
It's just like any electedofficial.
There's pros and cons toeverything you do.
People that want you to dosomething.
One way and a group that wantyou to do it.
You got to make the bestdecision with what you've got.
I get that, and it's not alwayseasy, especially when you've
got people calling andcomplaining about their property
taxes.
(13:51):
I'm not criticizing them forthat at all, but work together
with the folks, thesestakeholders, to find the right
solutions, instead of justmaking these assumptions and
doing things that are harmful.
And what I've started tellingmy members because those elected
officials at the local levelare some of the best you'll ever
find I said you've got to stopmanaging to the bad policy, and
(14:13):
what I mean by that is everytime something happens, they
just get out the bailing wireand the duct tape and they make
it work and nobody knows.
And I said you've got to stopdoing that.
People have got to feel it,otherwise it's never going to
get better.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And that it's against our human nature, because
everyone you know the Idaho wayand the heritage is hey, you
tell me I can't do it, I'llfigure out a way, Right?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
But we're going to go off a cliff if we don't start
having real conversations aboutthis.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Well, thank you for what you're doing for people
listening Um any any way thatcommon citizen business owners
can get involved to help withthis.
What suggestions do you have?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
First and foremost, reach out to me.
At the Association of IdahoCities, we're always looking for
people to partner with, andthen you know.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So the URL is Association of Idaho Cities.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Right there Great website, idahocitiesorg,
idahocitiesorg, and it's got allof our staff contact
information, including mine, andI'm always willing to have
meetings with folks that arewanting to talk about
infrastructure or how they canpartner with that public-private
partnership.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And then I guess the other advice would be to meet
with their mayors.
Absolutely the other advicewould be to meet with their
mayors, Absolutely the one thingthat I came away with my
experience, and you probably hada similar experience when we
were out together on thecampaign trail but you look at
government efficiencies andgovernment spending I think all
taxpayers are worried about hey,how are we using our taxes, how
(15:41):
are we doing things?
I think once you get to thecity level, especially at those,
I mean, you sit down with thosefolks and go through their
budget and most of the timeyou're like God bless you.
How on earth, how on God'sgreen earth, are you pulling
this?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
off.
How are?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
you running this city ?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So I think that's, and then you have the big halves
right, and then you can startarguing oh, are we doing this or
that or the other?
Whatever?
And that's where a lot of theethos of this stuff comes from
as well, we're going to gohammer them for doing this or
that or the other Right, but fora majority of these cities it's
not even.
It's not.
They're not even close tohaving the dollars to even exist
(16:21):
, let alone misuse ormisappropriate funds.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And there's a lot of things that are just not
happening within a cityjurisdiction at this point
because they can't.
You know projects that need toget done and they're deferring
that maintenance which is neverhealthy, even in our bigger
cities you know Meridian andBoise absolutely Because of that
8% cap.
It's ironic when I've sharedthat same thing.
There's three ways to reduceand I said that at an ATI
(16:46):
conference and I got cornered bya legislator afterwards and
they said you forgot one.
And I said oh really, what'sthat?
And they said reducing yourbudgets and I said no, that was
number two.
That was the reducing ofservices, because there's not
fluff in these budgets.
Just to your point, tommy, sitdown with you, name the city and
I will make the appointment forus and I'll go with you and we
(17:07):
will go through the budget.
You're not going to findfrivolous spending, it's just
not there it's not there and allof the as business owners.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Uh, whatever the industry we're in, you think of
the constraints on costs rightnow, labor right now, these
cities, it's that you know, ifyou look at and this is going to
sound bad, but it just is Ifyou look at a lot of the places
we get our employees from, overtime, it's people that have been
in cities because they'realready paying them a little
(17:37):
less, they're alreadyconstrained a little more, and
they've got talented people, sothey're trying to keep their
talented people.
And you've got private industrysaying oh, so you think of the
constraints on just employment,for sure, and keeping people,
and then you've got police andfire, anyway we could probably
talk about this forever, and Iknow that's not why you had me
on.
But we're going to, soidocitiesorg meet with your
(18:00):
mayor, kelly would meet withanyone who wants to get involved
or talk about this.
Okay, thank you for coming ontoday.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You have been very involved with the Idaho
Contraceptive Education Network,yes, and I have followed along.
This has been, I think, as aphysician.
I've been involved in a coupleways with just legislation that
has passed.
(18:28):
I mean, we had Roe v Wadegetting overturned.
I've went and met and talked toa bunch of OBGYNs.
We have owned large medicalgroups.
We have employed OBGYN doctorsI freaking worked in an ER for a
long time, right.
So this is an issue that anytime a change like that happens,
there are going to be policiesthat affect people and people's
(18:50):
lives.
So as part of that, yournetwork was set up and I'm kind
of doing an intro here and thenI'll let you talk to say, one of
the concerns that everyone hashad is okay, abortion is law and
here's what's happening, andit's happening nationally in the
state.
How is that going to affectwomen's rights when it comes to
contraception?
Sure, I'll shut up and let youtalk, kelly.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Well, and that's exactly why we got involved and,
I'll be honest, it was becauseI am so passionate about this
the access to contraceptive careand how it's impacted my own
life as well as my daughter'slives and Will, at some point,
my granddaughter's that I gotinvolved Because, you know,
(19:35):
going back to what we were justtalking about, I sit on 18
different boards on behalf ofcities, so I didn't need one
more board, right?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
But when I was 18?
18.
I'm going to stop feeling sorryfor myself.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, because you've got everything from local roads
to water and sewer and police.
I mean you sit on the postcouncil, et cetera.
I mean, yeah, 18 boards beingthe city representative, and so
I didn't need one more.
But as I talked with a group offriends and amazing individuals
about this particular issueafter Roe v Wade was overturned,
(20:07):
we knew that we had to dosomething, at least to protect
what we currently had as far asaccess to contraceptive, but
also to hopefully increase thataccess, and so that's the whole
reason why increase that access,and so that's the whole reason
why Laurie and Tara and I bandedtogether and we're co-founders
of ISIN and have worked hardover the last couple of years to
(20:29):
ensure that that importanthealthcare tool didn't get lost.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
So let's get to the nitty gritty of this.
Is that all right for listeners?
You bet.
And then we'll ask how peoplecan help.
So with abortion, it's a verycharged issue with a lot of
people.
In fact, people say just avoidthat topic because people have
very strong feelings and youjust don't know where they sit.
(20:58):
This is not even talking aboutthat feelings and you just don't
know where they sit.
This is not even talking aboutthat.
What we're talking about is and, by the way, I think, pro-life,
pro-choice.
There's a lot of things backand forth.
It would be a great discussionanyway, but when you pass
legislation, especially from aphysician's point of view, where
the mother's health andwellbeing cannot be taken care
of, that's another issue thatwe're not talking about today.
(21:20):
We're talking aboutcontraception and the idea that
if someone in their beliefsystem believes that life begins
at conception egg versusfertilization then birth control
(21:40):
is illegal.
That's what we want to avoid.
But but that.
But there are those opinions,just that, that's for sure, and
they've always existed.
they've always existed and soand so the idea.
And so most birth controls,just to get really specific,
stop implantation of afertilized egg.
Right, right, almost all them.
So, whether it's an IUD or thepill, that's what it does, right
(22:03):
?
And so the irony of this ismost people, their families,
their loved ones themselves,their daughters, their
granddaughters, have all usedbirth control successfully, and
it's part of planning and it'spart of life.
But the problem is there is aneffort out there to push that
(22:26):
choice that someone can make onfamily planning and birth
control away, because they'repulling it into the abortion
issue.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Right, and that's what we are trying to help avoid
.
We need to decouple those twoconversations, because
contraceptives will help.
It doesn't terminate life, likean abortion does.
It keeps it from happening.
Yes, right, and there's a bigdistinction.
They are two separate issuesand we need to make sure that we
(22:54):
don't conflate those.
But that's what some would liketo do, and if we allow that to
happen and that's another reasonwhy we got involved is to make
sure that that education wasavailable on our website, that
you can take a look at all thevaried types of contraceptives
because there's a lot ofdifferent types and find out
about that type of contraceptiveand make more informed
(23:17):
decisions about how youthoughtfully plan for your
family or not, depending on allyour varied needs.
But it's not just about that,and that's another thing that we
have really tried to stress.
There are teenage kids,regardless of religious belief,
that have been put on those tohelp with other things like
(23:39):
cysts and endometriosis and lotsof even painful menstruation,
including my own daughter.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
It was funny because I Including my daughter.
Yes, I mean, this is yes.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And so I-.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's a medical treatment for hormone regulation
, for whether it's painful,menses, or Right.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
There's so many other things.
Yeah, absolutely it's aboutwomen's health yes Period and
then them being able to makealso thoughtful decisions about
family planning, which is socritical, whether it's because
they're in school and they wantto delay it for a time, or
whether they want to delay inbetween kids because of
financial constraints.
(24:15):
Whatever the case might be,there's a lot of really
important reasons whycontraceptives are so important
and we need to protect thataccess, if not increase it.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Let's talk about some of the resources.
So again here's the URL it'sIdaho… IdahoCENcom, cencom,
idahocencom and walk us throughsome of the resources that are
out there for people that may beable to go find them and how
they can share them.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
There's your board Wow, yep, and great women.
I love serving with those twoladies.
They are phenomenal.
And we're also very blessed tohave a group at Atlas Strategic
Communications with AmandaWatson in charge that help us
with the messaging and keepingthis website going.
Watson in charge that help uswith the messaging and keeping
this website going.
But one can join the network sothat we can help build the
strength across the state sothat when we are in the advocacy
(25:07):
season and might need to findstories and or support from the
average citizen in reaching outto legislators, that's really
important, so we encourage folksto join us for that very reason
.
It's also been a really goodoutlet for people to tell their
stories and that is such aheartwarming experience for me
(25:31):
as a board member to be able toread how contraceptives have
helped women of all ages throughdifferent things, whether it's
a health struggle or whetherit's proper planning for their
future.
But then you can also go andfind on our website actual
medical, factual medicalinformation about each
(25:52):
contraceptive type so that youcan learn more and you can be
prepared before you go in andtalk with your physician, and it
explains out how each works,including those for men, as you
can see, and so it's just.
It's a great site and we hopethat people will get more
involved in this importantconversation.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Pete, isn't some of this a little counterintuitive?
If you're pro-life and you'reanti-abortion and you're anti.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I would say just the opposite, because to me at least
this is the way I look at it,and often I have said to family
and friends it's a no-brainer tome that if you have access to
contraceptives, for whateverreason, it's going to help
decrease unnecessary abortions.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
No, that's what I'm saying, I mean, that's what's
weird.
It's like, yes, we should beencouraging all of this
education.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Oh, I misunderstood.
I thought you were sayingsomething just the opposite.
I was like, no, this helps usdo just the opposite.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
No, I'm saying like this fully harmonizes with not
having abortions.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
In fact, if you're pro-life, you should, you should
be pro-contraception.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yes, I guess I remember the first time I heard
about you putting this grouptogether and my first thought
was well, wait a minute.
I know Kelly, I know she's verypro-life.
Very, very, very pro-life andwe're on the campaign trail
together and then I'm like whydo we need this thing?
Why do we need this network?
Because it should be hand-in inhand with reducing unwanted
(27:22):
pregnancies, and that's why weneed it.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
because there's this false narrative out there right
now at the national level andit's starting to trickle into
our state and we wanted to beahead of the game when we saw
that happening, we said no, weneed Idahoans to have factual
information about this so thatthey can stop that false
narrative, because that'sharmful.
And the other thing you know, wewere very intentional.
(27:45):
We will.
This is not, this shouldn't bea partisan issue, but you'll
notice, our board's made up ofthree Republican women.
Laurie served in the House andSenate or House, and ran for the
Senate as a Republican.
I served in the House as aRepublican.
Tara also ran for the Senate asa Republican.
I served in the House as aRepublican.
Tara also ran for the Senate asa Republican.
And that was intentionalbecause, unfortunately, there
(28:08):
are some Republicans that aretrying to make this a partisan
issue, and so we said we, asRepublican women, want to take
this stand and say no, thisisn't a partisan issue and as
pro-life Republicans, we aregoing to be the ones to message
what exactly this is.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I don't even know who's making it.
You probably know the actors,but they're probably Republican
men.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
They could be.
Some of them are yes, I willadmit that but not all of them.
I've been surprised by some ofthe Republican women that I've
had great conversations withabout this, and they are whether
it's because they've alreadybeen given this bad information
and their opinion has beenmolded by that misinformation.
(28:51):
It's been interesting to evenhave some of those conversations
with women.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
How.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
This last legislative session were there bills that
were considered that wereworrisome no, but the session
before there, um, as there hadbeen some legislation to try to
encourage better access for 12month periods six month or 12
month periods from um, frominsurance agents, right, or from
(29:20):
insurance companies, I shouldsay, to allow that, because
really it'd only been you coulddo three months at a time, and
especially in our rural, ruralareas, you can't always, it's
not always easy enough to get inand get a, you know, every
three months to get anotherrefill on that, and so we did
help encourage the passing,finally, of a bill that had been
(29:42):
out there for probably four orfive years running.
That would increase that to a12-month supply, which is
wonderful, so we're thrilledabout that.
There were rumors about somebills coming out, and we always
are watching it very closelythis past year, but there wasn't
anything specific that attackedcontraceptive access.
So you know it's funny.
(30:04):
That year prior, though, when wewere having the conversation
with different legislators, Iwas visiting with a gentleman
from Southeast Idaho, a friendof mine that I'd served with,
and he says you know, I justdon't think I can be there, and
I think, probably from the sameaspect that you were thinking
when you saw that I was going tobe on this board.
Right, he's very pro-life andhe was saying I just don't want
(30:26):
to encourage that type ofpromiscuity or whatever.
And I says well, you know what,it's not just about that.
And I shared the story about mydaughter needing them because
of her painful, painful mensesand I said so we ended up having
to put her on when she was 14.
And he sat back and it was sofunny to watch this aha moment
(30:48):
with him.
He said, oh my word, I think wehad to do that with my daughter
too.
I better call my wife.
And he does.
And he gets back with me laterthat day.
He says yeah, I'm there, I'llsupport you.
Because I guess she basicallysaid to him absolutely you will.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Is that the angle that they're taking?
Is that somehow birth control?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
equals yeah, especially for, yeah, teens and
and things I'm like.
Well, it's not just about, arewe not?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
past that kelly, for hell's sakes we should be.
I mean for hell's we I know weshould be.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I'm like what year is this?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
but yeah, not with everyone I mean I know, but
again, like if you truly are, ifyou're truly pro-life and
you're not against abortionagainst abortion, then then we
ought to be giving then even yes, even if it is about curiosity
and promiscuity.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
you should want that out there so that you don't have
these unwanted abortions.
Yes, no, we're not trying toencourage that.
We're trying to encouragethoughtful conversations and
education about all varied needsand situations we all find
ourselves in.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Do you guys so website information join the
network?
Any other?
Do you guys have an event everyyear?
Do you have any?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
uh, you know we haven't had a uh like a set time
, but we've been trying to umjoin, you know, help fairs and
other things around the state,um, not even just here in
treasure Valley, but up Northand Southeast Idaho everywhere
places to volunteer.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Um on here, if, if, if people are interested.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yes, as part of that joining.
As you fill that out, then wewill ask you at what level, you
know, what type of involvement.
Do you want to share your story?
Do you want to actuallyvolunteer?
Do you want to donate?
I mean, there's lots ofdifferent ways people can be
involved in this.
It's important, you know.
One other thing I'd like toshare with you that I've been so
(32:43):
excited about is that when wefirst started this so it's a
couple years different agebrackets and gender that believe
that access to contraceptivesis very important, right?
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I'm like thinking to myself.
It was only that Because I'mthinking like in the world, like
if you just said in myneighborhood how many people
have used birth control Forwhatever reason, it's got to be
more than 65% For sure.
It just depended on thequestion.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
It was overwhelming.
We even got close on thequestion.
It was overwhelming.
We even got close to the 80swith some things.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I guess my view of the.
I guess I uniquely was able tosee 45,000 people in the ER.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, and so intimately I was able to live
really close to this issue Forsure.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Like every part of this issue happens real time in
an emergency room.
It just does.
Whether it's contraception,emergency contraception, plan B,
morning after pill, whateveryou want to call it.
Whether it is people that havehad abortions that have gone bad
and they end up in the ER Forsure.
Whether it's people that haveYouions that have gone bad and
(33:57):
they end up in the ER For sure.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Whether it's people that have You've seen the full
spectrum.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I've seen the whole thing from top.
And then ectopic pregnancies,the issues right now of you've
got a non-viable pregnancy andwhat does that mean?
In the current law and so on.
So very, very involved.
But when it comes to justcontraception, it's like the
standard question with everysingle person you meet, which is
what are you using?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Right Agreed, and that's the other thing.
That's beautiful about thisnetwork is that you know the
reason for the varied options isbecause everyone's chemical
makeup and needs vary right.
And so to be able to have thatchoice is really exciting that
science has it's women's health.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
It is For hell's sakes.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It is, and what works well for one might not somebody
else, and sometimes there'strial and error.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Which is always interesting to me, some of these
issues where we're all aboutpersonal choice and personal
freedoms and Except this, exceptfor this.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yep, oh, trust me, I've said the same thing.
I'm like what?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Don't tell me I need a vaccine, right, but I'm going
to tell you what you can andcan't do for your own
contraception.
Anyway, Right.
Well, bless you for beinginvolved in this.
This is awesome.
Thank you Another great thingyou're involved in, Kelly, and
thanks for your service.
You've got a servant's heartfrom—you've always been this way
.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Thanks to my parents.
Really, yeah, I was raisedaround the philosophy that you
know, see a need, feel a need.
In fact, even in our own home,we couldn't complain about our
curfew or about, you know, ourchores or anything, unless we
brought a solution.
Now, did they listen to oursolutions?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
No, usually not you, or about our chores or anything
unless we brought a solution Now.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Did they listen to our solutions?
No, usually not, but that wasjust the rule, I mean, and even
my dad in conversations whenpeople would be running their
mouth about their electedofficial or whatever.
His first question was?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
did you vote yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
And if you said no, he said we're done talking
because you didn't do what youcould have done when it mattered
.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
What did he do for work?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
He was a dentist.
Ironically, he was a dentistthat then bought a dairy farm
because he wanted to teach hiskids how to work.
I was 13 when we moved to asmall town in McCammon on a
dairy farm.
It had about 365 acres and Iwas like we're going where to do
what, Right?
I?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
love that.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
But it was the very best thing in the world for me
because it did.
It taught me how to work andthere were a lot of really
valuable life lessons in that,which is what he wanted.
So he'd drive 30 miles into hisdental practice and then come
home and help Pete, and he'dmilk the cows twice a day.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Pete, some of those old school dairies you talked to
people that grew up with, likea true farm where you had a
dairy and some.
I mean you had to feed them soyou're doing hay You're tied to
it, you're tied to it and man.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, and it was.
Yeah, I learned a lot, in fact.
There was a really funny story.
One time, especially in thewinter when it was cold, my
older brother and I would praythat the you know that the
generator, the power would goout and the generator wouldn't
work.
And it did.
There was one day, I remember,and we came walking back into
the mudroom and laid down on thecouch and taking off, and dad
comes out.
He says what are you guys doing?
I told him what had happened.
(37:02):
He says you better pray that Iget the generator working,
because otherwise you're milkinga hundred and some odd cows
number of cows by hand.
And we're like, oh please.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Our prayers changed.
Now, as a modern grandma, right, think about this.
Think about the work that theyhad to commit to to teach the
lesson of work, right?
Yes, I don't know that I can dothat now.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
You do it all the time, tommy, you do I don't know
that I could.
I don't know you are alwaysinto new things and doing stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I know I love new things, but like saying, hey,
let's go have a 150-cow dairy.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
And horses and pigs and chickens.
We had all this stuff Movingpipe Just so I could teach you
how to work.
I know and it did.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Oh, I get tired thinking about that.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
We have a farm and we do some stuff but it's just so
much work, but it's part of ourheritage right.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
It work, it's part of our heritage right.
I mean, that's what makes.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That's what builds the character right.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, that's why I have the work ethic.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I have and the servant heart Are your folks
still?
Speaker 1 (38:02):
around.
What's that?
Are they still?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
around.
They're not.
I lost them both during thecampaign.
I lost my dad.
I had announced April 10th of2017 that I was going to run and
he was gone by the end of thatmonth, the 27th, and then my mom
passed on March, 11 monthslater.
Oh, my word, I'm sorry, it wasa tough time.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
How many years were they married?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
At that point over 50 .
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Let me think 50.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Let's see, they were married that happens a lot in
law.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
It's just, I think, that once one goes and and they
were young though they were,only they were both a month shy
of their, or a couple months shyof their 73rd.
Oh, you're kidding me?
No, cancer took both of them.
My dad had a brain tumor thatwe knew about for eight years,
and so we were blessed to havehim for longer than we thought.
And then mom, pancreatic cancertook her.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Oof, not long after dad, pancreatic cancer.
It was awful.
Yeah, it's so fast.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And it's mean.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
It hurts so bad.
That was hard to watch.
In fact, you were so kindduring the I don't know if you
remember this, but it'ssomething I will never forget
but you pulled me aside at anevent one time and said, because
you knew about what washappening with my mom, and you
said if you ever need anything,even a mode of transportation,
to get you down to SoutheastIdaho quickly if something turns
(39:20):
, on you, I remember that I willnever forget it and I want to
thank you for it.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
You're awesome, ditto , you're the best.
There's a.
You know, we go through theseexperiences and I know, during
those experiences, like becausewe were in it together, you're
like what the heck right?
But I think you develop bondswith people that are really cool
.
They, they're awesome and andI've, I've really enjoyed
(39:45):
watching you lead yourreputation at the association of
cities is they needed a leaderlike you during a time like now.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
It's not getting easier, but they got the right
person to thanks, it's so, I getto work with some of the best
people.
Well, I love them.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, and you got a good team over there.
You have Lance over there now.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yes, I hope he stays.
He's such a great man.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
He's had another baby right.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, Cutest little girl.
Yeah, he's got a little boy anda little girl and such a.
I love his wife.
She's a sweetheart too.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Kelly, thank you.
If there's ever anything we cando, we'll spread the word.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Please do.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
And thanks for all you do.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Thanks for having me on.
I know that it took a littlebit of a different turn than
what we had expected, but Ialways enjoy visiting with you
and ISIN is such an importantproject and I hope more people
will get involved.
It's an important topic, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Thanks everybody.
Today on the Ever Onward podcast we have Kelly
Packer, a longtime friend.
Former legislator, ran forlieutenant governor in the state
and now has been serving forsix years as the executive
director of the IdahoAssociation of Cities.
She most recently has formed anew group called the Idaho
Contraceptive Education Network,or ICEN.
It will be great to get caughtup with Kelly on all things
(00:23):
about cities and government andthen this important initiative
that she has started thatsurrounds contraception and
protecting that right in Idaho.
Kelly Packer, how have you been?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I've been doing really well, yep.
Family's good Family's've beendoing really well, yep.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Doing great, family's good.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Family's really really doing well.
All my kids are married andhaving kids.
I have nine grandkids andlife's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Oh my goodness, there's nothing better than
grandkids.
Amen to that.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, my mom used to always say you know, grandkids
are your reward for not killingyour kids, and I really took
exception to that because I wasone of the kids right.
But now I get it, Are theyclose by?
I've got one daughter and threeof my grandchildren are here in
Caldwell.
The others are still inSoutheast Idaho but they're
still close, either Pocatello orShelly, and they're wonderful.
I go home a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It's the best Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
It's the best.
I have three and man every day,and man every day.
It's funny because my daughter,brooklyn, has three.
I used to always say when shewas little a day without the
Diddy ain't a day worth living.
That was her nickname.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Oh, that's cute.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
And now it's kind of transitioned to her kids.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's like a day without seeing those kids.
It's amazing, but there's areason we have kids when we're
young.
I had my four-year-old andone-year-old granddaughter and
grandson last weekend for anextended stay and oh my goodness
.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I was like I'm too old for this.
We went down to Lagoon lastweekend but Cash sleeps with us
every night in the hotel andhe's our guy.
And how old is he?
Five.
But man, that kid's internalalarm clock.
It doesn't matter how hard yougo the next day, before what
time you go to bed 5.45, andit's like Papa, papa, it's time,
it's time I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Let's go Wasting the sun.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, so I know what you're saying, yeah, they leave
and you just like go.
Oh, I'm old.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Well, thank you for coming on.
I have fond memories of ourtime traveling around the state
together, and you and your RV,my big RV.
Yeah, so for people listening,kelly ran for lieutenant
governor in 18.
18, yep.
The same year.
I was running for governor.
So we went to all the sameLincoln days together.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It was a trek, wasn't it A?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
lot of work.
Listened to each other'sspeeches.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Over and over Hundreds and hundreds of times.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
It's really funny.
Matthew used to be able to doit, so Janice McGee and Anna
Witt and I still to this day, Istill there was.
How many of you were in therace?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
There was five, and that's the whole reason.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
There were five in the race right she won, but I
still swear I would put anyamount of money amount.
The only reason she won was itwas the only clearly female name
.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Agreed.
I actually had somebody say tome why don't you change your
name to just Y instead of E-Y?
And I was like well, becausethis is what my parents named me
.
I don't want the campaign thatyou know.
I don't want the election thatmuch.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Anyway, matthew used to be able to do kind of a spot
on impression of her speech,because you hear each other's
speeches the whole time, right?
Anyway, he would break intothat for years afterwards and it
would always be just the crowdfavorite.
But anyway, it was fun.
Got to see Idaho, got to loveIdaho.
Oh, beautiful state yeah, andsome good times, good memories,
(03:55):
and you meet people in ways thatyou just wouldn't get to know
them otherwise.
And so then you went from thereto now.
You've been the director of theIdaho Association of Cities for
Going on six years now.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, it's been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
And I know that's not kind of what you're here to
talk about today, but tell us alittle bit about the Idaho
Association of Cities.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Oh, it's an amazing organization that's been around
for what?
78 years now and it's been anhonor to be their executive
director for the last five and ahalf From the campaign.
I actually went and led anagency for Governor Little for a
year and a half and then hadsome of my mayors from when I
(04:36):
was a legislator from down inSoutheast Idaho area reach out
and say you know, we've beenwithout an executive director
for a number of months and we'dlove to have you come and lead
that organization if you would.
And it took me a minute to makethat decision, but I'm glad I
did.
We get to help them with all oftheir education and technical
assistance and support, but alsoa really important role is the
(04:59):
advocacy that we do for them atthe Statehouse and in DC on city
issues and there's a lot ofthem right and very important to
everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, and you're doing such a great job.
I also.
It's strange because you knowthe community you live in and
most of our population is herein the Treasure Valley, just the
way it is.
So when we think of mayors, wethink of Mayor Simpson and Mayor
McLean Sure, and you just thinkof these big city mayors and
(05:28):
the great work they do.
One of the things for me when Itraveled around and met with
people, I met with almost everymayor in every town we ever went
to and the job is heavy.
It's huge.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
You figure out of our 197 cities, 165 have 5,000 or
less people.
It's a part-time mayor.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So 165 have 5,000 or less part-time mayor.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Part-time council trying to just take care of the
community.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I remember being in cafes with these guys and gals
and sitting down and saying, hey, what are your challenges?
And a lot of times they wouldbreak out into tears and they
would just say, hey, we have awater or sewer treatment plant,
we have a school that's fallingdown, we have roads that we
can't fix, we have staff wecan't keep and honestly you
(06:13):
would want to help but you wouldgo.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Where do I?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
start.
I'm so sorry.
I'll pray for you and I don'tknow what to do.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Right and that's why the association is so important,
because we work really hardtrying to educate legislators
about the policy decisions theymake and how that impacts, a lot
of times negatively, thosecommunities that are trying to
hold things together and ourbusinesses and our citizens and
everybody relies on thatinfrastructure.
You know the city is that thatfirst core infrastructure areas
(06:46):
that you know goes, trickles outinto the county and then
trickles out into the state andso forth.
I mean the majority of ourroads are local roads that are
here in the state.
The water and sewer, it's allcity.
You do have some sewer andwater districts but they're few
and far between it's.
Yeah, I mean it's the core ofwhat makes up Idaho's economy.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, and I think one of the most important things
you do, the advocacy work you dois at the legislature you serve
.
How many terms did you servethere?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Three, three terms.
So you know how that processworks or doesn't, as the case
might be and there.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I think one of the things that you see like I
always bring.
It's a great example.
Because in medicine, right,when you learn medicine, it's
the Hippocratic Oath first do noharm, right, right.
And a lot of times these billsthat pass are often targeted at
specific issues in a specificjurisdiction right, absolutely,
true, a specific jurisdictionright, absolutely.
(07:43):
And because Ada County andCanyon County are so large, or
Bonneville County some of thecounties in our state are so
large, you'll have a lot ofthese bills and legislation that
will target issues that votersand constituents see as issues
there and oftentimes thedownstream effects of how that
legislation will affecteverybody else.
You're there to fight andprotect and help and educate.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Absolutely, it's really a key component of what
we do at the association.
I mean, the other key componentis then helping them facilitate
relationships and conversationswith people that can help maybe
make ends meet, especially inthose smaller jurisdictions.
But, yes, that is one of themost important things we do
Because I mean, like last year,we had 75 bills that came out
(08:30):
that would impact cities eitherpositively or negatively, and
that's pretty typical.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So what are some?
The bill that capped it'skilling cities.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It's killing cities.
We've lost three cities sincethat bill passed.
Yeah, so talk about that citiessince that bill passed.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, so talk about that bill in a little bit,
because I think everyone I talkto brings the bill up.
They're like this is House Bill389.
I'll never forget the number,and 389 was supposed to.
I think the intention was hey,we're going to try to help
protect taxpayers, and what itreally does.
(09:08):
And the hypocrisy is it.
They say growth, pay for growth, but it basically did the
opposite.
Right, so you had a bill thatwas intended for one thing, that
has done the opposite thing,but it's not going.
It hasn't gone away.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I mean no because the egos that are involved in that
bill won't let it go away andwe've had lots of conversations
with them about exactly whatit's doing.
I mean it.
It passed in 2021.
In 2022, we lost Atomic City,which is one of the oldest
cities in Idaho, and it's nowgone because they could no
longer meet the revenue needsfor the water and sewer
(09:36):
treatment plant.
They had put together afive-year and 10-year plan to do
improvements that were criticalto the health and safety of
that water and sewer system andcouldn't do it, so they had to
unincorporate, which meant thatthat went to the counties.
Who's not in the water andsewer business?
So they had to find a privateentity or a sewer and water
district I don't know which onethey did to take it over.
(09:58):
The need doesn't go away.
And then in 2023, we lost Hamer, and then last year we lost
Oxford.
This year we have three lookingat unincorporating because they
just can't meet the need withrevenues.
And the way property tax was setup and worked well for over 20
(10:18):
years was that it was a 3% cap.
We already had a cap.
We already had a cap Over thelast three years, right?
And then plus, plus, plus, andthose pluses were new
construction, which is growth,annexation of an area that's
grown in the county that'scoming into the city, which is
growth or reclassification.
And what they did is they tooka percentage.
(10:40):
It changed the percentage soyou can't capture 100% of the
value, only 80 or 90, dependingon what we're talking about and
then they capped it at 8%.
So let's say a city takes thefull 3%, which most cities
didn't Usually it was around theone one and a half percent area
and then they bank the rest forfuture needs, capital
(11:01):
improvement needs down the road.
But let's just say they takethe full 3%, that means they
only have another 5% that theycan access from those other
categories and you look like acity of star that's had an
average of about 20% growth overthe last 5, 10 years.
Well, if they can only take 5%of that 20% growth, who's paying
(11:25):
for the additional servicedemands?
What do they say to that?
It falls on deaf ears.
I really can't answer that,tommy.
I don't know.
It's really mind-boggling to mebecause I've said really
there's only three ways toreduce homeowner property taxes.
(11:45):
That is to either shift andbalance it different between all
the different taxpayers thecorporate and utilities and
homeowners which nobody wants todo and that's fine.
Reduce services, which mostpeople don't want to do, because
the bulk of the budgets inmunicipalities is emergency
(12:07):
services.
So you want our police fire,our medical ones to be reduced
right, and then the only otherthing is to increase other
revenue streams, local optiontax, for example, or something
of that nature.
And that is not going to happenAgain, because of those same
folks.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Thank you for explaining.
We've talked about it before onthis podcast, but the irony of
all ironies is somehow thelegislature is getting away with
cutting police fire.
They're cutting services thatpeople need and not allowing
growth to pay for growth Rightright, and I've even said this
(12:45):
if our infrastructuredeteriorates and defaults
completely, who pays?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
The state's going to ultimately pay, because commerce
doesn't travel on gravel roadsand infrastructure.
Businesses the majority ofbusinesses are in a city
footprint and they rely on thewater, they rely on the sewer,
they rely on the streets.
They, you know, for all of that.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So is there?
Do you think there's like likein some of these issues we're
facing right now with policythat's just not good policy?
Is it just things have to getbad enough before there's a
breaking point, becauseotherwise they don't listen and
that's kind of it's a.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
In fact I've even said that to my members.
It's a defeatist kind ofattitude.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
It's really sad, but it kind of like is it's going to
have to get really bad beforethey do something?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yes, and don't get me wrong, I've sat in those seats.
I know it's hard to be alegislator.
It's just like any electedofficial.
There's pros and cons toeverything you do.
People that want you to dosomething.
One way and a group that wantyou to do it.
You got to make the bestdecision with what you've got.
I get that, and it's not alwayseasy, especially when you've
got people calling andcomplaining about their property
taxes.
(13:51):
I'm not criticizing them forthat at all, but work together
with the folks, thesestakeholders, to find the right
solutions, instead of justmaking these assumptions and
doing things that are harmful.
And what I've started tellingmy members because those elected
officials at the local levelare some of the best you'll ever
find I said you've got to stopmanaging to the bad policy, and
(14:13):
what I mean by that is everytime something happens, they
just get out the bailing wireand the duct tape and they make
it work and nobody knows.
And I said you've got to stopdoing that.
People have got to feel it,otherwise it's never going to
get better.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And that it's against our human nature, because
everyone you know the Idaho wayand the heritage is hey, you
tell me I can't do it, I'llfigure out a way, Right?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
But we're going to go off a cliff if we don't start
having real conversations aboutthis.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Well, thank you for what you're doing for people
listening Um any any way thatcommon citizen business owners
can get involved to help withthis.
What suggestions do you have?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
First and foremost, reach out to me.
At the Association of IdahoCities, we're always looking for
people to partner with, andthen you know.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So the URL is Association of Idaho Cities.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Right there Great website, idahocitiesorg,
idahocitiesorg, and it's got allof our staff contact
information, including mine, andI'm always willing to have
meetings with folks that arewanting to talk about
infrastructure or how they canpartner with that public-private
partnership.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And then I guess the other advice would be to meet
with their mayors.
Absolutely the other advicewould be to meet with their
mayors, Absolutely the one thingthat I came away with my
experience, and you probably hada similar experience when we
were out together on thecampaign trail but you look at
government efficiencies andgovernment spending I think all
taxpayers are worried about hey,how are we using our taxes, how
(15:41):
are we doing things?
I think once you get to thecity level, especially at those,
I mean, you sit down with thosefolks and go through their
budget and most of the timeyou're like God bless you.
How on earth, how on God'sgreen earth, are you pulling
this?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
off.
How are?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
you running this city ?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So I think that's, and then you have the big halves
right, and then you can startarguing oh, are we doing this or
that or the other?
Whatever?
And that's where a lot of theethos of this stuff comes from
as well, we're going to gohammer them for doing this or
that or the other Right, but fora majority of these cities it's
not even.
It's not.
They're not even close tohaving the dollars to even exist
(16:21):
, let alone misuse ormisappropriate funds.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And there's a lot of things that are just not
happening within a cityjurisdiction at this point
because they can't.
You know projects that need toget done and they're deferring
that maintenance which is neverhealthy, even in our bigger
cities you know Meridian andBoise absolutely Because of that
8% cap.
It's ironic when I've sharedthat same thing.
There's three ways to reduceand I said that at an ATI
(16:46):
conference and I got cornered bya legislator afterwards and
they said you forgot one.
And I said oh really, what'sthat?
And they said reducing yourbudgets and I said no, that was
number two.
That was the reducing ofservices, because there's not
fluff in these budgets.
Just to your point, tommy, sitdown with you, name the city and
I will make the appointment forus and I'll go with you and we
(17:07):
will go through the budget.
You're not going to findfrivolous spending, it's just
not there it's not there and allof the as business owners.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Uh, whatever the industry we're in, you think of
the constraints on costs rightnow, labor right now, these
cities, it's that you know, ifyou look at and this is going to
sound bad, but it just is Ifyou look at a lot of the places
we get our employees from, overtime, it's people that have been
in cities because they'realready paying them a little
(17:37):
less, they're alreadyconstrained a little more, and
they've got talented people, sothey're trying to keep their
talented people.
And you've got private industrysaying oh, so you think of the
constraints on just employment,for sure, and keeping people,
and then you've got police andfire, anyway we could probably
talk about this forever, and Iknow that's not why you had me
on.
But we're going to, soidocitiesorg meet with your
(18:00):
mayor, kelly would meet withanyone who wants to get involved
or talk about this.
Okay, thank you for coming ontoday.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You have been very involved with the Idaho
Contraceptive Education Network,yes, and I have followed along.
This has been, I think, as aphysician.
I've been involved in a coupleways with just legislation that
has passed.
(18:28):
I mean, we had Roe v Wadegetting overturned.
I've went and met and talked toa bunch of OBGYNs.
We have owned large medicalgroups.
We have employed OBGYN doctorsI freaking worked in an ER for a
long time, right.
So this is an issue that anytime a change like that happens,
there are going to be policiesthat affect people and people's
(18:50):
lives.
So as part of that, yournetwork was set up and I'm kind
of doing an intro here and thenI'll let you talk to say, one of
the concerns that everyone hashad is okay, abortion is law and
here's what's happening, andit's happening nationally in the
state.
How is that going to affectwomen's rights when it comes to
contraception?
Sure, I'll shut up and let youtalk, kelly.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Well, and that's exactly why we got involved and,
I'll be honest, it was becauseI am so passionate about this
the access to contraceptive careand how it's impacted my own
life as well as my daughter'slives and Will, at some point,
my granddaughter's that I gotinvolved Because, you know,
(19:35):
going back to what we were justtalking about, I sit on 18
different boards on behalf ofcities, so I didn't need one
more board, right?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
But when I was 18?
18.
I'm going to stop feeling sorryfor myself.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, because you've got everything from local roads
to water and sewer and police.
I mean you sit on the postcouncil, et cetera.
I mean, yeah, 18 boards beingthe city representative, and so
I didn't need one more.
But as I talked with a group offriends and amazing individuals
about this particular issueafter Roe v Wade was overturned,
(20:07):
we knew that we had to dosomething, at least to protect
what we currently had as far asaccess to contraceptive, but
also to hopefully increase thataccess, and so that's the whole
reason why increase that access,and so that's the whole reason
why Laurie and Tara and I bandedtogether and we're co-founders
of ISIN and have worked hardover the last couple of years to
(20:29):
ensure that that importanthealthcare tool didn't get lost.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
So let's get to the nitty gritty of this.
Is that all right for listeners?
You bet.
And then we'll ask how peoplecan help.
So with abortion, it's a verycharged issue with a lot of
people.
In fact, people say just avoidthat topic because people have
very strong feelings and youjust don't know where they sit.
(20:58):
This is not even talking aboutthat feelings and you just don't
know where they sit.
This is not even talking aboutthat.
What we're talking about is and, by the way, I think, pro-life,
pro-choice.
There's a lot of things backand forth.
It would be a great discussionanyway, but when you pass
legislation, especially from aphysician's point of view, where
the mother's health andwellbeing cannot be taken care
of, that's another issue thatwe're not talking about today.
(21:20):
We're talking aboutcontraception and the idea that
if someone in their beliefsystem believes that life begins
at conception egg versusfertilization then birth control
(21:40):
is illegal.
That's what we want to avoid.
But but that.
But there are those opinions,just that, that's for sure, and
they've always existed.
they've always existed and soand so the idea.
And so most birth controls,just to get really specific,
stop implantation of afertilized egg.
Right, right, almost all them.
So, whether it's an IUD or thepill, that's what it does, right
(22:03):
?
And so the irony of this ismost people, their families,
their loved ones themselves,their daughters, their
granddaughters, have all usedbirth control successfully, and
it's part of planning and it'spart of life.
But the problem is there is aneffort out there to push that
(22:26):
choice that someone can make onfamily planning and birth
control away, because they'repulling it into the abortion
issue.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Right, and that's what we are trying to help avoid
.
We need to decouple those twoconversations, because
contraceptives will help.
It doesn't terminate life, likean abortion does.
It keeps it from happening.
Yes, right, and there's a bigdistinction.
They are two separate issuesand we need to make sure that we
(22:54):
don't conflate those.
But that's what some would liketo do, and if we allow that to
happen and that's another reasonwhy we got involved is to make
sure that that education wasavailable on our website, that
you can take a look at all thevaried types of contraceptives
because there's a lot ofdifferent types and find out
about that type of contraceptiveand make more informed
(23:17):
decisions about how youthoughtfully plan for your
family or not, depending on allyour varied needs.
But it's not just about that,and that's another thing that we
have really tried to stress.
There are teenage kids,regardless of religious belief,
that have been put on those tohelp with other things like
(23:39):
cysts and endometriosis and lotsof even painful menstruation,
including my own daughter.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
It was funny because I Including my daughter.
Yes, I mean, this is yes.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And so I-.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's a medical treatment for hormone regulation
, for whether it's painful,menses, or Right.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
There's so many other things.
Yeah, absolutely it's aboutwomen's health yes Period and
then them being able to makealso thoughtful decisions about
family planning, which is socritical, whether it's because
they're in school and they wantto delay it for a time, or
whether they want to delay inbetween kids because of
financial constraints.
(24:15):
Whatever the case might be,there's a lot of really
important reasons whycontraceptives are so important
and we need to protect thataccess, if not increase it.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Let's talk about some of the resources.
So again here's the URL it'sIdaho… IdahoCENcom, cencom,
idahocencom and walk us throughsome of the resources that are
out there for people that may beable to go find them and how
they can share them.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
There's your board Wow, yep, and great women.
I love serving with those twoladies.
They are phenomenal.
And we're also very blessed tohave a group at Atlas Strategic
Communications with AmandaWatson in charge that help us
with the messaging and keepingthis website going.
Watson in charge that help uswith the messaging and keeping
this website going.
But one can join the network sothat we can help build the
strength across the state sothat when we are in the advocacy
(25:07):
season and might need to findstories and or support from the
average citizen in reaching outto legislators, that's really
important, so we encourage folksto join us for that very reason
.
It's also been a really goodoutlet for people to tell their
stories and that is such aheartwarming experience for me
(25:31):
as a board member to be able toread how contraceptives have
helped women of all ages throughdifferent things, whether it's
a health struggle or whetherit's proper planning for their
future.
But then you can also go andfind on our website actual
medical, factual medicalinformation about each
(25:52):
contraceptive type so that youcan learn more and you can be
prepared before you go in andtalk with your physician, and it
explains out how each works,including those for men, as you
can see, and so it's just.
It's a great site and we hopethat people will get more
involved in this importantconversation.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Pete, isn't some of this a little counterintuitive?
If you're pro-life and you'reanti-abortion and you're anti.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I would say just the opposite, because to me at least
this is the way I look at it,and often I have said to family
and friends it's a no-brainer tome that if you have access to
contraceptives, for whateverreason, it's going to help
decrease unnecessary abortions.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
No, that's what I'm saying, I mean, that's what's
weird.
It's like, yes, we should beencouraging all of this
education.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Oh, I misunderstood.
I thought you were sayingsomething just the opposite.
I was like, no, this helps usdo just the opposite.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
No, I'm saying like this fully harmonizes with not
having abortions.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
In fact, if you're pro-life, you should, you should
be pro-contraception.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yes, I guess I remember the first time I heard
about you putting this grouptogether and my first thought
was well, wait a minute.
I know Kelly, I know she's verypro-life.
Very, very, very pro-life andwe're on the campaign trail
together and then I'm like whydo we need this thing?
Why do we need this network?
Because it should be hand-in inhand with reducing unwanted
(27:22):
pregnancies, and that's why weneed it.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
because there's this false narrative out there right
now at the national level andit's starting to trickle into
our state and we wanted to beahead of the game when we saw
that happening, we said no, weneed Idahoans to have factual
information about this so thatthey can stop that false
narrative, because that'sharmful.
And the other thing you know, wewere very intentional.
(27:45):
We will.
This is not, this shouldn't bea partisan issue, but you'll
notice, our board's made up ofthree Republican women.
Laurie served in the House andSenate or House, and ran for the
Senate as a Republican.
I served in the House as aRepublican.
Tara also ran for the Senate asa Republican.
I served in the House as aRepublican.
Tara also ran for the Senate asa Republican.
And that was intentionalbecause, unfortunately, there
(28:08):
are some Republicans that aretrying to make this a partisan
issue, and so we said we, asRepublican women, want to take
this stand and say no, thisisn't a partisan issue and as
pro-life Republicans, we aregoing to be the ones to message
what exactly this is.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I don't even know who's making it.
You probably know the actors,but they're probably Republican
men.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
They could be.
Some of them are yes, I willadmit that but not all of them.
I've been surprised by some ofthe Republican women that I've
had great conversations withabout this, and they are whether
it's because they've alreadybeen given this bad information
and their opinion has beenmolded by that misinformation.
(28:51):
It's been interesting to evenhave some of those conversations
with women.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
How.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
This last legislative session were there bills that
were considered that wereworrisome no, but the session
before there, um, as there hadbeen some legislation to try to
encourage better access for 12month periods six month or 12
month periods from um, frominsurance agents, right, or from
(29:20):
insurance companies, I shouldsay, to allow that, because
really it'd only been you coulddo three months at a time, and
especially in our rural, ruralareas, you can't always, it's
not always easy enough to get inand get a, you know, every
three months to get anotherrefill on that, and so we did
help encourage the passing,finally, of a bill that had been
(29:42):
out there for probably four orfive years running.
That would increase that to a12-month supply, which is
wonderful, so we're thrilledabout that.
There were rumors about somebills coming out, and we always
are watching it very closelythis past year, but there wasn't
anything specific that attackedcontraceptive access.
So you know it's funny.
(30:04):
That year prior, though, when wewere having the conversation
with different legislators, Iwas visiting with a gentleman
from Southeast Idaho, a friendof mine that I'd served with,
and he says you know, I justdon't think I can be there, and
I think, probably from the sameaspect that you were thinking
when you saw that I was going tobe on this board.
Right, he's very pro-life andhe was saying I just don't want
(30:26):
to encourage that type ofpromiscuity or whatever.
And I says well, you know what,it's not just about that.
And I shared the story about mydaughter needing them because
of her painful, painful mensesand I said so we ended up having
to put her on when she was 14.
And he sat back and it was sofunny to watch this aha moment
(30:48):
with him.
He said, oh my word, I think wehad to do that with my daughter
too.
I better call my wife.
And he does.
And he gets back with me laterthat day.
He says yeah, I'm there, I'llsupport you.
Because I guess she basicallysaid to him absolutely you will.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Is that the angle that they're taking?
Is that somehow birth control?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
equals yeah, especially for, yeah, teens and
and things I'm like.
Well, it's not just about, arewe not?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
past that kelly, for hell's sakes we should be.
I mean for hell's we I know weshould be.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I'm like what year is this?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
but yeah, not with everyone I mean I know, but
again, like if you truly are, ifyou're truly pro-life and
you're not against abortionagainst abortion, then then we
ought to be giving then even yes, even if it is about curiosity
and promiscuity.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
you should want that out there so that you don't have
these unwanted abortions.
Yes, no, we're not trying toencourage that.
We're trying to encouragethoughtful conversations and
education about all varied needsand situations we all find
ourselves in.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Do you guys so website information join the
network?
Any other?
Do you guys have an event everyyear?
Do you have any?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
uh, you know we haven't had a uh like a set time
, but we've been trying to umjoin, you know, help fairs and
other things around the state,um, not even just here in
treasure Valley, but up Northand Southeast Idaho everywhere
places to volunteer.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Um on here, if, if, if people are interested.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yes, as part of that joining.
As you fill that out, then wewill ask you at what level, you
know, what type of involvement.
Do you want to share your story?
Do you want to actuallyvolunteer?
Do you want to donate?
I mean, there's lots ofdifferent ways people can be
involved in this.
It's important, you know.
One other thing I'd like toshare with you that I've been so
(32:43):
excited about is that when wefirst started this so it's a
couple years different agebrackets and gender that believe
that access to contraceptivesis very important, right?
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I'm like thinking to myself.
It was only that Because I'mthinking like in the world, like
if you just said in myneighborhood how many people
have used birth control Forwhatever reason, it's got to be
more than 65% For sure.
It just depended on thequestion.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
It was overwhelming.
We even got close on thequestion.
It was overwhelming.
We even got close to the 80swith some things.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I guess my view of the.
I guess I uniquely was able tosee 45,000 people in the ER.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, and so intimately I was able to live
really close to this issue Forsure.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Like every part of this issue happens real time in
an emergency room.
It just does.
Whether it's contraception,emergency contraception, plan B,
morning after pill, whateveryou want to call it.
Whether it is people that havehad abortions that have gone bad
and they end up in the ER Forsure.
Whether it's people that haveYouions that have gone bad and
(33:57):
they end up in the ER For sure.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Whether it's people that have You've seen the full
spectrum.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I've seen the whole thing from top.
And then ectopic pregnancies,the issues right now of you've
got a non-viable pregnancy andwhat does that mean?
In the current law and so on.
So very, very involved.
But when it comes to justcontraception, it's like the
standard question with everysingle person you meet, which is
what are you using?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Right Agreed, and that's the other thing.
That's beautiful about thisnetwork is that you know the
reason for the varied options isbecause everyone's chemical
makeup and needs vary right.
And so to be able to have thatchoice is really exciting that
science has it's women's health.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
It is For hell's sakes.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It is, and what works well for one might not somebody
else, and sometimes there'strial and error.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Which is always interesting to me, some of these
issues where we're all aboutpersonal choice and personal
freedoms and Except this, exceptfor this.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yep, oh, trust me, I've said the same thing.
I'm like what?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Don't tell me I need a vaccine, right, but I'm going
to tell you what you can andcan't do for your own
contraception.
Anyway, Right.
Well, bless you for beinginvolved in this.
This is awesome.
Thank you Another great thingyou're involved in, Kelly, and
thanks for your service.
You've got a servant's heartfrom—you've always been this way
.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Thanks to my parents.
Really, yeah, I was raisedaround the philosophy that you
know, see a need, feel a need.
In fact, even in our own home,we couldn't complain about our
curfew or about, you know, ourchores or anything, unless we
brought a solution.
Now, did they listen to oursolutions?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
No, usually not you, or about our chores or anything
unless we brought a solution Now.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Did they listen to our solutions?
No, usually not, but that wasjust the rule, I mean, and even
my dad in conversations whenpeople would be running their
mouth about their electedofficial or whatever.
His first question was?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
did you vote yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
And if you said no, he said we're done talking
because you didn't do what youcould have done when it mattered
.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
What did he do for work?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
He was a dentist.
Ironically, he was a dentistthat then bought a dairy farm
because he wanted to teach hiskids how to work.
I was 13 when we moved to asmall town in McCammon on a
dairy farm.
It had about 365 acres and Iwas like we're going where to do
what, Right?
I?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
love that.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
But it was the very best thing in the world for me
because it did.
It taught me how to work andthere were a lot of really
valuable life lessons in that,which is what he wanted.
So he'd drive 30 miles into hisdental practice and then come
home and help Pete, and he'dmilk the cows twice a day.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Pete, some of those old school dairies you talked to
people that grew up with, likea true farm where you had a
dairy and some.
I mean you had to feed them soyou're doing hay You're tied to
it, you're tied to it and man.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, and it was.
Yeah, I learned a lot, in fact.
There was a really funny story.
One time, especially in thewinter when it was cold, my
older brother and I would praythat the you know that the
generator, the power would goout and the generator wouldn't
work.
And it did.
There was one day, I remember,and we came walking back into
the mudroom and laid down on thecouch and taking off, and dad
comes out.
He says what are you guys doing?
I told him what had happened.
(37:02):
He says you better pray that Iget the generator working,
because otherwise you're milkinga hundred and some odd cows
number of cows by hand.
And we're like, oh please.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Our prayers changed.
Now, as a modern grandma, right, think about this.
Think about the work that theyhad to commit to to teach the
lesson of work, right?
Yes, I don't know that I can dothat now.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
You do it all the time, tommy, you do I don't know
that I could.
I don't know you are alwaysinto new things and doing stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I know I love new things, but like saying, hey,
let's go have a 150-cow dairy.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
And horses and pigs and chickens.
We had all this stuff Movingpipe Just so I could teach you
how to work.
I know and it did.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Oh, I get tired thinking about that.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
We have a farm and we do some stuff but it's just so
much work, but it's part of ourheritage right.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
It work, it's part of our heritage right.
I mean, that's what makes.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That's what builds the character right.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, that's why I have the work ethic.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I have and the servant heart Are your folks
still?
Speaker 1 (38:02):
around.
What's that?
Are they still?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
around.
They're not.
I lost them both during thecampaign.
I lost my dad.
I had announced April 10th of2017 that I was going to run and
he was gone by the end of thatmonth, the 27th, and then my mom
passed on March, 11 monthslater.
Oh, my word, I'm sorry, it wasa tough time.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
How many years were they married?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
At that point over 50 .
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Let me think 50.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Let's see, they were married that happens a lot in
law.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
It's just, I think, that once one goes and and they
were young though they were,only they were both a month shy
of their, or a couple months shyof their 73rd.
Oh, you're kidding me?
No, cancer took both of them.
My dad had a brain tumor thatwe knew about for eight years,
and so we were blessed to havehim for longer than we thought.
And then mom, pancreatic cancertook her.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Oof, not long after dad, pancreatic cancer.
It was awful.
Yeah, it's so fast.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And it's mean.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
It hurts so bad.
That was hard to watch.
In fact, you were so kindduring the I don't know if you
remember this, but it'ssomething I will never forget
but you pulled me aside at anevent one time and said, because
you knew about what washappening with my mom, and you
said if you ever need anything,even a mode of transportation,
to get you down to SoutheastIdaho quickly if something turns
(39:20):
, on you, I remember that I willnever forget it and I want to
thank you for it.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
You're awesome, ditto , you're the best.
There's a.
You know, we go through theseexperiences and I know, during
those experiences, like becausewe were in it together, you're
like what the heck right?
But I think you develop bondswith people that are really cool
.
They, they're awesome and andI've, I've really enjoyed
(39:45):
watching you lead yourreputation at the association of
cities is they needed a leaderlike you during a time like now.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
It's not getting easier, but they got the right
person to thanks, it's so, I getto work with some of the best
people.
Well, I love them.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, and you got a good team over there.
You have Lance over there now.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yes, I hope he stays.
He's such a great man.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
He's had another baby right.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, Cutest little girl.
Yeah, he's got a little boy anda little girl and such a.
I love his wife.
She's a sweetheart too.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Kelly, thank you.
If there's ever anything we cando, we'll spread the word.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Please do.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
And thanks for all you do.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Thanks for having me on.
I know that it took a littlebit of a different turn than
what we had expected, but Ialways enjoy visiting with you
and ISIN is such an importantproject and I hope more people
will get involved.
It's an important topic, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Thanks everybody.
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