April 2, 2025 • 46 mins
From the Mississippi River to Lake Michigan, Illinois’ waters are incredible environmental and economic resources, supporting a diversity of plants and animals, providing drinking water for millions of people, and allowing for transportation and recreation. However, aquatic invasive species can threaten these resources. These organisms cause harm to native species and collectively costing humans millions of dollars annually in impacts and control. Join the Everyday Environment team as they chat with Aquatic Invasive Species Specialist, Katie O'Reilly from Illinois Indiana Sea Grant.
Resources:
Transport Zero Campaign
Aquatic Invaders in the Marketplace
Invasive Crayfish Collaborative
Questions? We'd love to hear from you!
Abigail Garofalo aeg9@illinois.edu, Erin Garrett emedvecz@illinois.edu, Amy Lefringhouse heberlei@illinois.edu
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy (00:06):
Welcome to another episode of the everyday environment
podcast where we explore theenvironment we see every day.
I'm your host, Amy Lefringhouse.
Abigail (00:14):
And I'm your cohost, Abigail Garofalo.
Amy (00:17):
And today, we are so happy to have Katie O'Reilly. She is
an aquatic invasive speciesspecialist with the Illinois
Indiana Sea Grant. And she'sgonna talk to us a little bit
about aquatic invasive species,and obviously they're aquatic.
Obviously, they're related towater, but that is our topic of
(00:37):
our season this season is water.So welcome, Katie.
We are really glad that you'rehere.
Katie (00:44):
Thank you so much, Amy. Super glad to be here and super
glad to be talking about allthings aquatic invasive species
today.
Fun times. Well, to start off,Katie, why don't you go ahead
and just let our listeners knowwhat you do in your work and,
you know, what do you do on aday to day basis, and how do you
(01:06):
spend your time working for SeaGrant?
Yeah. So in my role with SeaGrant, I do a mix of research
about aquatic invasive speciesas well as outreach and
education, sort of bringingtogether all those different
components to really help us doa better job talking to people.
(01:27):
You know, the science, like anykind of, you know, biological or
chemistry science, can sometimesget sort of technical and and
dry. So we try and understandhow people think to help them or
help us create messages aboutinvasive species that not just
(01:47):
inform them, but help peoplemake decisions about the types
of things that they do, makedecisions about what types of
behaviors they can do to helpeventually prevent and manage
aquatic invasive species. Soit's kinda nice bringing
together you know, I still getto do my research as a
scientist, but I really enjoythe the talking with people and
(02:09):
understanding how to be a bettercommunicator.
Abigail (02:11):
That's awesome. It's all the way through. What is
that I'm sure we've mentioned iton the podcast before, Amy. This
idea of, like, science is notdone until it's communicated. So
to have a person who's, youknow, from the beginning to the
end a little bit is really greatway to ensure that, you know,
that research turns into action.
Katie (02:30):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we can do all the science we
want, you know, in the lab, inthe field, but if we're not
actually getting thatinformation to the people who
who need it, I feel like we'rewe're missing, you know, the
kind of biggest step in theprocess to help people get to be
informed to make thesedecisions. Yeah.
Abigail (02:49):
The why behind the research. Right?
Katie (02:51):
Absolutely.
Amy (02:52):
Real quick, Katie, just a very quick overview of what is
Sea Grant. Like, talk aboutIllinois Indiana Sea Grant, and,
you know, we know what it is,but tell our listeners just,
like, a little snippet of whatthat program is.
Katie (03:07):
Yeah. Absolutely. Illinois Indiana Sea Grant is a
partnership betweenuniversities, plural being that
we're covering two states, soPurdue and University of
Illinois. And it's a partnershipof those universities with the
federal government through theagency, the National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration orNOAA, which is responsible for
(03:30):
doing a lot of, obviously, oceanstuff, but here in in our neck
of the woods, they do a lot ofGreat Lakes focused research and
outreach as well. So it it'sbringing together those two kind
of not disciplines, but twoagencies to really maximize
their ability to reach people.
Amy (03:52):
Great. Thank you for that. We like I said, we know what it
is, but sometimes folks, youknow, don't. So thank you for
explaining that.
Abigail (04:01):
Also, I used to work for Sea Grant. At one point, I
was an intern with them in thesummer, and I also feel like
sometimes I was like, yeah, wewe do outreach, education
related to water, like, it'slike the out and the whole,
like, pieces between because itpartners with a lot of different
organizations. I know we have,like or Sea Grant has some
(04:22):
partnership with EPA, like,Illinois EPA and the Chicago
metropolitan CMAP. The planning,they definitely have a
partnership with the planning,Metropolitan Planning. But yeah,
they partner with a lot of otherand they have like secret staff
in different spaces across bothstates, which is really, really
(04:42):
neat and a really great way toincorporate this awesome
outreach work that that needs tobe done when it comes to our
water. So
Katie (04:50):
Yeah. And I'll I'll say, you know, obviously I'm biased
from the aquatic invasivespecies side of things, but Sea
Grant really does work on sortof all aspects of water, from
water pollution to waterconservation to resiliency of
communities, like in terms offlooding, to aquaculture. So,
like, you name it, if it toucheswater, Sea Grant probably has a
(05:11):
finger in it.
Amy (05:13):
And it's focused on the Great Lakes, but really, I mean,
this podcast is statewide and,you know, I work in West Central
Illinois, and a lot of theresources that Sea Grant
produces, yes, they they reallyare focused, or you are really
focused on Great Lakes, but itcan apply to all of our streams
and, you know, water resourcesthat we have around the state.
Katie (05:36):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, obviously, like, the Great Lakes
are the focus because of theconnection we have to NOAA, but
as we all know, water isn't youknow, doesn't stay in one place.
We all of our systems areconnected, and so really, for us
to protect Lake Michigan, we dolook at it from kind of the
(05:56):
whole state, whole region pointof
Abigail (05:58):
Well, you're here to talk to us a little bit about
aquatic invasives. What arethey? So tell us a little bit
about what an aquatic invasiveis and, you know, why they're a
concern.
Katie (06:10):
Yeah. So aquatic invasive species are species that are not
native, so they're not typicallylike, originally found in a
certain place. They've beenintroduced from somewhere else,
and the key distinction is,like, sometimes you can have non
native species that areintroduced, and they don't, you
know, cause any trouble. They'reperfectly fine. But the species
(06:31):
that we consider invasive arethose that do cause some harm,
whether that's to the nativeenvironment around them or to
the kind of human benefits thatwe gain from our waterways,
things like recreation,transportation, clean drinking
water.
There can be distinctionsbetween, like, what just
(06:51):
something that's been introducedversus something that's been
introduced and is causing a lotof trouble, and that's where the
invasive term comes in.
Abigail (06:58):
Yeah. Like naturalized, right, versus invasive.
Interesting. Is there I know inthe, like, the terrestrial
landscape, there's this idea of,like, hyper locality of, like,
oh, this is, like, nativenessdepends on, you know, are we
talking about, like, eco regionnative to Northeastern Illinois,
(07:19):
native to this part, like, toIllinois, Southern Illinois,
things like that. Is there thatkind of hyperlocality with
aquatic invasives, is it alittle more like state
boundaries, things like that?
Katie (07:30):
You know, that's a really good question. I would say it
can have more of thathyperlocality. Like, for
example, in Illinois, we havespecies that are native to the
southern part of the state, suchas, like, the red swamp
crayfish, but they areconsidered invasive up in the
Chicagoland area. So even withinthe boundaries of, you know, our
(07:50):
state, a species that might befine in one place can cause some
major harm if transported toanother. So yeah. So there is
definitely some hyperlocalityeven within aquatics, which
obviously can swim to new placesif they're given the chance.
Amy (08:06):
That's interesting. I've never really thought about that
with, you know, just within ourstate. Oh, it's native. Yeah.
It's good. You automatically putit on the good list. Right? And
but can cause harm, you know, inother in other areas. That's
very interesting.
Katie (08:21):
Yeah. And one thing that I think is particularly
interesting about Illinois, youknow, despite the sort of
latitudinal gradient we coverfrom the South to the the North,
is that we're at thisintersection between the Great
Lakes and the Mississippi RiverBasin. And that is both a
benefit to our state, you know,in terms of commerce
transportation, but it's also amajor risk in terms of things
(08:45):
that might be invasive in theGreat Lakes making their way
into the Mississippi or viceversa.
Amy (08:49):
Mhmm.
Katie (08:50):
We've seen some of those challenges come up with things
like the invasive carp that arereally common in the Mississippi
River Basin, but we're, like,really concerned about them
making their way into to LakeMichigan. So I think Illinois is
really an interesting case studywhen you're you've got all these
factors kind of combining tomake invasive species science
(09:11):
even more complicated than it itnormally may be.
Amy (09:14):
Lucky us.
Katie (09:15):
Lucky us. Yeah. But it also gives us a lot of
opportunities, and especially, Ithink it makes it so that the
things that we do in Illinoisare really impactful in terms of
preventing invasive species.
Amy (09:29):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Well, you mentioned invasive carp. So what
are some of those aquaticinvasive species that you're
kind of focusing in on on yourstudies or even communication
that we're worried about here inIllinois?
Katie (09:44):
Yeah. So my team at Sea Grant kind of talks about a
variety of different species,but one that you brought up or
that I brought up originally isprobably one of our most
notorious, and that's theinvasive carp, which are
actually a group of fourdifferent species of fish. And
our main concern with these guysis they just explode in
(10:06):
population numbers to the pointof, like, know, the Illinois
River is now think biomass is,like, 70 invasive carp, which
Really? Is a stat that justblows my mind.
Oh,
Abigail (10:19):
that's wild to think about.
Katie (10:22):
And and one of those species of carp is called the
silver carp, and those are theguys that you might have seen
the videos of where they're,like, jumping out of boats, or
jumping out of the water intoboats, hitting people in the
face. Mhmm. So it that becomes,like, even more of an evocative
image of, like, oh, something isamiss here. Mhmm.
(10:43):
But beyond the invasive carp,which are definitely a main
focus, my team does a lot ofwork with invasive crayfish. And
so crayfish, for those whoaren't familiar, are little
crustaceans. They look a bitlike baby lobsters. And there's
a lot of different species ofcrayfish both in Illinois and
(11:05):
across the Great Lakes Basin,most of which are are native.
But there are a couple such asthe red swamp crayfish, which
have, you know, either expandedtheir range or then been
introduced somewhere else in thebasin.
And those guys are causing a lotof harm because they get bigger
than our native crayfish, sothey can basically bully them
(11:26):
out of habitat and foodresources, as well as they
actually create sort of they digburrows in the side of streams,
and that causes erosion of thestream bank into you know, kind
of in on itself. So they it's aone two punch to native species,
both out competing them and thenmodifying the habitat around
(11:48):
them.
Abigail (11:49):
That probably increases, like, that burrowing
and that erosion probably makesa huge sediment pollution
problem too. Yeah. Andsedimentation, I mean,
Katie (12:01):
it's kind of interesting. Both the crayfish and the carp
cause some sedimentation issues.With the grass carp, which is
one of those four species ofinvasive carp we're dealing
with, they tend to eat aquaticvegetation. And so, like, in
doing that, they tear up thebottom of the pond or stream and
cause a lot of sedimentation. Soit's just like you can have some
(12:26):
of these impacts that aresimilar between invasive
species, and sometimes they evencompound if you've got multiple
invasive species in the samewater body.
Abigail (12:35):
So we're seeing these invasives, these aquatic
invasives, decreasebiodiversity. Right? Like we're
seeing this, like, themexploding in population. We're
also seeing them destroyinghabitat. Right?
And then altering habitat allaltogether, from an ecosystem
level. What are some economicimpacts we're seeing from these
invasives?
Katie (12:56):
Yeah. So with the carp example, you know, in addition
to the biodiversity loss, whatwe're seeing is an impact to
native fish that arecommercially important. Things
that used to be sport fish on,say, like, Illinois River are
have decreased in numbers, sothat is, you know, reducing how
many people might necessarilywant to go out fishing for a day
(13:19):
to to catch things. Also, Iguess there is an allure to,
like, having flying fish aroundyou, but some boaters don't
wanna go out if there's a riskyou're gonna get hit with a, you
know, 50 pound Mhmm. Carp in theface.
They can get big. It's crazy.
Amy (13:33):
It is. I worked as an intern with the history survey,
and, yeah, we would I mean,we're going we're idling
through, but, I mean, you'regoing at, I mean, a huge, not a
fast clip, but you're idlingthrough, so you're going, we
would put, we would have trashcan lids, like that was our like
armor
Abigail (13:54):
Shields!
Amy (13:56):
they are, and we even took the Master Naturalist group out
earlier this fall on theMississippi in Pool 20, we were
in Pool 20, and they experiencedthe fish, and you know, we had a
(14:17):
whole group of people and itwas, I got a little nervous as
the risk management person, youknow, that was on the boat, like
what if this does hit somebody,you know, so, and we were just
kinda just slowly going through,but, yeah. If you were skiing, I
mean, if you're a recreationalboater and you're skiing or
whatever Yeah. Anyway Yeah.
Katie (14:36):
No. I mean, that's an excellent point, Amy. I mean,
just that sort of concern,quantifying, like, what that
means in terms of lostrecreation. Sure. You know, does
that mean I don't know ifanyone's done, like, a study
necessarily to to put numbers onthat, but you we can imagine
that there has been a reduction,and that those obviously have
(14:57):
cascading impacts to the townsthat are on the Illinois River,
on the Mississippi River thatmay rely on some of that, you
know, fishing
Amy (15:06):
Mhmm.
Katie (15:06):
Recreational fishing money to come in.
Amy (15:08):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Abigail (15:10):
I would say too, like, on the resources of just
removing them in the like, doingmanagement in the first place of
these is that's a lot on a,like, on a state organization,
thinking about prevent we weretalking about this, you know,
confluence of the two basins, ofthe two watersheds, you know,
preventing them from getting inthe Great Lakes in the first
(15:32):
place. Like, I mean, I'm sure alot of capacity, energy, time,
money is going into, like, thesesteps to prevent them from
getting in there, because oncethey're in there, it's so much
worse. So, like, a lot ofinvestment.
Katie (15:45):
Oh, absolutely. And I mean, one of the biggest
investment areas right now is atthe Brandon Road Lock, which is
around Joliet, and it's sort ofthe connection between the
waterways surrounding Chicagoand Lake Michigan ultimately,
and the IllinoisRiverMississippi River Basin.
And this has been a projectthat's sort of been in, I don't
(16:08):
know, the cooking stages for along time. Just recently, the
states of Michigan and Illinois,like, came to an agreement in
terms of, you know, payments sothat construction can go
forward. But like you said,Abigail, that is a billion
dollar project, which is gonnacreate this sort of I almost
think of it as like a gauntletfor Carp because it's not just
(16:31):
gonna be, like, one one barrierthat they're gonna put in to try
and stop them.
It's actually a series ofdifferent control measures, like
carbon dioxide bubbling,acoustics to use sound to try
and deter them, sort of layeredon top of each other so that the
idea being if a carp sneaks pastone of those barriers, it it'll
(16:55):
get caught by something else.But that is so clearly an
illustration of what youmentioned in terms of just the
cost of prevention, which isstill cheaper than the cost of
trying to control after thefact.
Amy (17:07):
Mhmm. Mhmm. We talked about invasive carp, and we talked
about crayfish. Are there anyplants, like if we moved over
into the plant world, that youguys are focused in on, or or,
again, communicating to thepublic about?
Katie (17:23):
Yeah. So one species of aquatic plant that we're I would
say is kind of top of mind forus in terms of our research and
communication is calledhydrilla. And so this is a
Aquatic plants are always fun totry and communicate about. It's
like, oh, it's a green thingthat grows in the water, you
know, and leaves are sorta likethis, but so Right. Plants
(17:47):
aren't quite as charismatic assome of our our animals, but the
hydrilla challenge, and and thisis a species that's become
established kind of in theSoutheastern US, But the problem
with hydrilla is it grows inthese huge masses on the water,
which can, you know, preventsunlight from getting into the
(18:07):
water.
It can cause these big die offswhich reduce the amount of
oxygen that's available forspecies, can make it really
tough to get your boat in andout of the water because it
clogs up your your
Abigail (18:19):
is it on top of the water, like the leaves on top,
or is it, like, within theground? Like, I'm sure it's
rooted under It's rooted underWhere do the leaves sit?
Katie (18:26):
The leaves kinda sit near the surface. Oh. So it's not
kind of like semi floating butattached. And the challenge,
especially with hydrilla too, isit it has this connection to the
the bottom, and it has theselittle tubers that it it grows
(18:47):
from, but it can also grow fromjust having pieces of it sort of
cut off.
So fragments of it can floatdownstream and sprout a new
plant, which also not great whenyou're dealing with water where,
you know, water systems whereyou have boats coming through,
chopping stuff up, even justwave action. Luckily, we've only
(19:08):
had a couple of confirmedreports of hydrilla in Illinois
so far, and of those reports,they've generally been well, one
found early, and two found insemi controllable environments,
like a neighborhood pond. Sure.Where a lot of effort can be put
(19:29):
in, but you can actually I hateit right off the bat. So far
we've been sort of lucky, but Ithink that's been in part
because people have noticedthese things early on, and
reported it to someone to belike, hey, this plant doesn't
look like it should be here.
Abigail (19:50):
How is hydrilla, or even any other species, aquatic
invasives, getting introduced inthe first place?
Katie (19:59):
So with hydrilla, we're, I would say, mostly confident
that it's coming from aquariumreleases. So this is a plant
that's popular in, like, theaquarium and water garden trade.
And generally, because we'reseeing it in just these isolated
areas, it it almost seems likeit's someone dumped, say, like
(20:19):
an aquarium or, wasn't able,like, to care for a pet or
something any longer. So thatseems like the main pathway for
hydrilla. For things like thecarp, those were more releases
from aquaculture ponds in theSoutheastern US that have made
their way up the MississippiRiver. So not necessarily the
(20:40):
same method, but gets getsanimals in the water either way.
And with the crayfish, actually,the the red swamp crayfish, one
of their major introductionpathways is those are the type
of crayfish that if you've everdone, like, a Louisiana style
crayfish boil or crawfish boilYeah.
Sometimes you can buy like thosebig bags of live crayfish, and
(21:04):
occasionally, you know, somehave managed to to get out and
survive. That that's one pathwaythat we're looking into for the
red swamp crayfish.
Abigail (21:13):
Somebody thinking that they're being kind to the
animals that were gonna be eatenand actually
Katie (21:18):
Right. Saved yeah. I'm gonna save this guy. Good luck.
Abigail (21:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely releasing things into the water
is like a big no no. Like it'sjust just don't do it, you know?
Yeah.
It's you're not helping. You'renot helping, unfortunately.
Katie (21:31):
Yeah. Despite what Finding Nemo might have, you
know, showed you, it's not onlyis it potentially harmful if
those species become invasive,but a lot of sort of captive
raised pets don't have thesurvival skills they would need
in the wild. So it's probablynot gonna be a good end outcome
(21:55):
either way, releasing a nativeor, you know, releasing a a pet
that's not native to an area.
Abigail (22:01):
Or a lunch that you didn't end up cooking and
eating. Or, yeah, or a crawfishthat didn't make it
Katie (22:06):
to the boil, or or, you know, if you had a piece of bait
or a live live bait that you hadin your bucket that you didn't
need at the end of the day. Whenin doubt, yeah, don't release
anything that you don't know forcertain came from that
particular water body waterbody.
Amy (22:23):
Well, that reminds me of places I've been, boat ramps
that I've been at, and I workedwhen I was younger in Minnesota.
I felt like at all the boatramps, there was a lot of
communication signs and thingsthat talked about, Make sure
you're cleaning off your boat.No vegetation. You know? Make
(22:43):
sure you're not dumping livebait into the water.
And what are some, like,communication methods that you
guys are using to I mean,obviously this podcast, of
course, but, like, what other,like, ways do are you thinking
about as far as communicatingand alerting people about
invasive species that they mightlook for out in there, wherever
(23:07):
they're going, wherever they'rerecreating, I guess, on water
bodies, yeah. Just talk aboutthat a little bit.
Katie (23:13):
Yeah. Absolutely. So I actually have two examples that
I'll probably use because it'skind of focused on two different
audiences. So one is similar towhat you were saying, Amy.
Actually, that outreach app boatlaunches kind of where where
people are going to recreate.
And so this past summer, my teamdid a study up in the
(23:37):
Chicagoland area where wetraveled to a bunch of different
boat launches to do a mix ofdata collection. So essentially,
we were looking to see whatsigns existed at that launch,
you know, what had been put inover the years.
Amy (23:52):
Mhmm.
Katie (23:53):
We also did observation of boaters to see were they
actually looking at the signs?Did they, you know, hang out in
places that were near signs?Sure. And we did a survey to try
and understand not only theirtheir use of the boat launch,
but sort of what were theirmotivations for not just
(24:13):
boating, but, like, cleaningtheir boat afterwards. So trying
to understand that behaviorcomponent.
And so you are in the process ofanalyzing those data to make
some recommendations to theIllinois Department of Natural
Resources about, you know, whattypes of signs might be helpful,
placement at different launches.Because obviously, people are
(24:34):
out on the water to have a goodtime, like that's the boating
and fishing. But how do weprovide enough information
that's not just in a way thatsort of you see a sign and you
just gloss over, you're like,I'm not even gonna read that up.
So I think we've got some someinteresting observations we
made. You know, people really dowant to prevent invasive
(24:56):
species.
When we when we talk to them,they're like, you know, I care
about this lake I've been comingto for Mhmm. You know, fifteen,
twenty years. I've noticed thesethings, and, you know, I wanna
prevent invasive species, buthere are some of the barriers I
feel like are preventing me. Sothat was helpful for our team
(25:17):
because it gave us informationto sort of refine some of the
messaging and communication wewere doing and understand a
small subset, you know, that wesurveyed, that we talked to,
that we observed, to just havemore information to work with so
that we can make it morerelevant for that audience.
Abigail (25:36):
Yeah. I was gonna say that's so helpful to like get
that direct feedback because weknow, I mean, we all are working
communications and education,and we know that like, just
telling somebody somethingdoesn't actually get them to do
it. I mean, we all know that weneed to eat so many fruits and
veggies a day, and reducecertain things, but, you know,
we all don't eat the things thatare recommended for So how can
(26:00):
we expect others in our line ofwork to be like, if I just tell
you, you should do it. Right? Sogetting that feedback on like
what what are the barriers toyou doing that?
It's not just that you don'tknow. So what can we do instead?
Right? Or what are systems thatexist that can prevent the
introduction in the first placeor or, you know, make it easier
for you or incentivize you alittle bit more.
Katie (26:22):
That's Absolutely. Yeah. Same way, like you said, you
know, we know we should eat ourveggies. We know we should
exercise every day. Boaters, youknow, know they should clean
their boat.
They know they shouldn't, youknow, let any vegetation stick
to the end. But, you know,sometimes there might not be the
equipment at a boat launch, likehaving access to water so that
(26:43):
they could wipe you know, rinsedown their boat or not having
the space at a boat launch to beable to, like, pull off and and
clean things. So I I think it'sthe same way. We can tell them,
you know, oh, clean your boat,drain, drive. But if they don't
if they don't feel like it'saccessible enough to them or
(27:05):
that they, you know, may nothave the right tools, they're
less likely to to do so.
Amy (27:10):
What was the other example, Katie? Did you say it another
Yeah.
Katie (27:13):
Yeah. So the other example is kind of on the
alternate, you know. So we wetalked a lot with boaters and
anglers in the field, but wealso have done a lot of work
with aquarium shops and baitshops around the state. And so
we we did sort of a blitz thispast fall where we visited,
wanna say at least 30 shops inperson and then had another 50
(27:36):
that we, you know, communicatedwith through mail and email. And
this was really a way for us,not necessarily to talk to the
customers of these shops, but totalk with the owners and
retailers themselves.
Because we found in sort of pastwork that we've done, customers
really look to, like, a aquariumstore owner or employee for the
(28:01):
information about, you know,whatever species they're buying.
Like, that's a trusted resourcefor them. And so in our little,
like, communication blitz thispast year, we really tried to
not only just give theseretailers outreach brochures,
other information, but we wantedto start conversations with them
(28:24):
about, like, what are thingsthat your customers are
concerned about? What are thingsthat you wish you had? Some of
them were like, yeah.
I get these these animals, butI'm not always sure that they're
exactly what the packaging saysbecause there's, like, confusing
common names. It'd be helpful ifI had some, you know,
(28:45):
identification guides that werenot made for scientists. Yeah.
You know, people who aren't inour little bubbles understand.
And then as part of that too, wealso have a a course, an online
course that the retailers cantake, which is sort of a short
(29:06):
little, I don't wanna say like acertification, but it's part
like, we call it our greenretailer program.
And so if they complete thecourse, which provides
information about not onlyinvasive species in general, but
sort of what are the rules andregulations in Illinois that
pertain to, like, buying andselling non native species. We
(29:28):
have it so that if they takethis little mini course, they
can be part of our Be A Herowebsite, which is our invasive
species messaging campaign, tosort of show that they are a
retailer who is, I don't wannasay, passionate, like, they
care, responsible and they wantto be able to provide the best
(29:50):
information to their customers.I think in in doing this, we
felt it was really important togo in person to have some of
these conversations because ithelps start building those
relationships so that they knowthat, hey. This person from Sea
Grant, this person from theuniversity is someone I can go
to with questions that and theydon't feel necessarily like, oh,
(30:12):
this is someone who's gonna forbecause we're not enforcement an
enforcement agency. Right.
It's not like, oh, they're I canask them questions and not feel
like, uh-oh, if I get introuble, you know, something's
gonna happen.
Amy (30:23):
Mhmm.
Abigail (30:24):
I had no idea about that, like, certification
course, you know, like thatyeah. That's really cool and
that I mean, I see the Be A HeroTransport Zero, like, stickers
and campaigns always when I goto, IDNR sites and I think
they're also at some forestpreserve sites, which is really
great. Hats off to you all for,like, looking at the sourcing.
(30:45):
Right? And then being like, whatcan we do about that to
incentivize?
That's a really, really neatprogram.
Katie (30:52):
Yeah. Definitely. And I mean, I think it just speaks to
a broader point, which is tryingto figure out with these
different audiences, whetherit's anglers, boaters, aquarium
owners, who who are the peoplethat they go to for information?
Who are their trusted sources?And then being able to have
those people sort of be informedby our science, by our outreach,
(31:16):
because we know that they havethose audiences already
listening to them.
They know that they're a trustedsource. Whereas some people
might just see us as like, oh,it's that scientist from, you
know, the university. So I thinkbuilding those relationships is
really something that we try andtry and invest time and effort
into. Mhmm.
Amy (31:35):
And speaking to them about something that they care about,
right? Yeah. Absolutely. Theycare about that ecosystem that
they use for recreation or or,you know, whatever, or even
their pets, you know. That's awhole world that I've never even
thought about before, so I findthat really fascinating.
I thought, I think it would bereally interesting to go visit
(31:57):
pet shops and things like that,and that, yeah, that whole world
would be something I wouldn'tknow anything about. So that's
really neat, a neat program toeducate business owners. I think
business owners are, maybe, I'mnot, I guess just assuming, but
you know, they're looking forthings to differentiate
themselves as a part ofbusiness, right? And so becoming
(32:20):
a responsible business owner,responsible, you know,
environmental citizen andshowing that to their customers,
you know, could be a benefit forthem too. So that's interesting.
Katie (32:32):
Yeah. Absolutely. I I would say too, I mean, beyond
that and and obviously, lot ofthem are very passionate about
their animals. Like, they wantwhat's best for them, and they
are really cognizant of notwanting to hurt the environment.
That's why they got into it,because they love animals.
Right. But I would also say onething that we've heard, because
(32:53):
we've we've done some surveys inthe past too, is they also want,
like, they wanna make sure thattheir industry is not like a
scapegoat for, like, oh, well,it's always the pet trade fault
that invasive species get out.So there's somewhat of that too,
like they don't want to incurany additional restrictions or
(33:15):
regulations, so there's somewhatof a want to sort of, let's get
ahead of this before thisbecomes something that is forced
upon us. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Abigail (33:27):
Yeah. Definitely. Because they're the ones who
kind of know their industry.Right? If it's kind of
regulations are put in place ina play from individuals that
aren't, you know, part of it,
Katie (33:41):
they they don't know what to expect. Right? So Right.
Exactly.
Abigail (33:45):
We're kinda talking about, like, prevention from an
industry level. Our listenersare often members of the public.
Maybe they're involved indifferent industries, things
like that. How can the publichelp prevent the spread of
aquatic invasives?
Katie (33:59):
Yeah. So, I mean, we have talked a lot about industry, but
really it does come down to alot of individual actions. When
you know, a lot of people mightthink, oh, well, maybe I'm not a
boater, so it doesn't matter,you know, I clean my boat, or I
don't have aquarium pets, so I'mnot gonna release them. I would
say, you know, thinking aboutyour day to day life, the best
(34:22):
way to prevent an invasivespecies is to take actions that
relate to whatever hobby you do.You know, if you like to fish,
maybe it's not releasing anylive bait.
If you like to garden, makingsure that if you're using any
water plants, those are nativespecies.
Amy (34:41):
Mhmm.
Katie (34:42):
So there are specific actions depending on, like, what
your particular hobby is,whether it's clean, drain,
drying drying your boat Mhmm.Not dumping your pets. But I
would also say, also just beingkind of cognizant of the world
around you, because we do knowthat early detection of invasive
species is one of the best wayswe can, you know, eradicate them
(35:05):
and control them before theybecome sort of unfeasible to to
manage. And that's something Ithink everybody can do. You
know, if you're out, you go to aa park and you walk on a trail
along a river, if you notice,hey, there's some weird plants
I've never seen before.
Maybe just mentioning it to aranger. There are things like
(35:27):
apps. I think of things likeiNaturalist that can help you
identify things if you're like,do I really, you know, wanna
take you know, bring this up tothe ranger? Are they gonna think
I'm silly because this is like anormal species? So if that,
like, is a constraint, there aretools that can help you ID
unusual things.
But I I would say that's one ofthe ways that anyone can help is
(35:50):
just observing the world aroundyou. And if you notice something
that just kinda seems off, youknow, letting if it's, you know,
in the state, letting theIllinois Department of Natural
Resources know, letting a local,like, park ranger know, any of
those would be good goodactions. Extension office?
(36:11):
Extend exactly your localextension office, for sure.
Amy (36:14):
Mhmm. Mhmm. I was just gonna say those are good
because, you know, I can picturemyself hiking along a trail,
along a lake. I can picturemyself gardening. I can pick you
know, those are really good.
I can picture myself doing thosethings and thinking, oh, yeah. I
guess I could help. I I mightnot have even known that I could
help, but I can help. So I likethat.
Katie (36:36):
Right. And I mean, it it's somewhat different than,
like, terrestrial speciesbecause we're not always
necessarily in the water or evenaround the water. I often think
of aquatic invasive species aresometimes, like, out of sight or
out of mind because unless youapparently really love
snorkeling, you're not always,like, hanging out underneath the
surface of the water. You maynot know what's going on. So I
(36:57):
think the more eyes we can have,whether it's people specifically
involved in recreation withwater, or just people who enjoy
sitting by the lake andwatching, the better chance we
have to catch things early on.
Well, wonderful.
Amy (37:13):
Anything else, Katie, that you wanna add that we didn't ask
you today that you wanna add forour listeners?
Katie (37:20):
You know, I think one thing I would add is it can
often be somewhat depressing totalk about invasive species
because you're like, oh gosh,okay, it's here. What are we
gonna do about it? But I willsay that there we have had
successes in managing someinvasive species. One that comes
to mind for me is the infamoussea lamprey, which, you know,
(37:42):
isn't exactly the mostaesthetically pleasing fish, but
essentially, these are parasitesthat live on fish species, and
they cause a lot of damagebecause they oftentimes kill
their host. But while this was ahuge issue in the Great Lakes,
especially in, like, the midtwentieth century, a lot of
(38:04):
resources and effort were putinto developing control methods
for the lamprey, mainly throughthe application of essentially,
it's a lampricide, so like anherbicide but targeted for
lamprey.
And that program has, over theyears, has really I mean, we
went from having so many lampreyin the Great Lakes to a really
(38:24):
manageable number. They're notgone, and they probably won't be
gone, but it's at a level that'snot impacting our native
ecosystems anymore. Now grantedthat has been a very expensive
program over the years, and itdoes cost money annually to keep
it going. But I think at leastit's it's shown that putting the
(38:47):
effort towards coming up withsolutions can sometimes mitigate
the worst of the impacts ofinvasive species even if we
can't get rid of them totallyaltogether.
Amy (38:58):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Abigail (39:00):
Yeah. I love the, I love the throwback to, longtime
listeners of the pod know thatwe did cover, Lamprey in a,
like, a Halloween episode in2023. So, excited to have that
throwback, and I'm excited tohear that it is managed now
like, manageable now. I mean, Ithink we we all kind of know
(39:21):
that the management humanmanagement of disrupted
ecosystems long term is justkind of necessary given the
status of our of our ecosystemand how we've altered the
ecology of our world. But thefact that this can be shown as a
success story is really, reallyexciting to hear because I
(39:41):
remember hearing about thelamprey initially in college and
being like, these are gonna killeverything.
Giant fish keels. The shores arecovered in dead fish and like,
you know, like and and they'recreepy too. Like, you look at
them and they're like thethey're like, you know, the
what's the opposite ofcharismatic species? Right?
Like, that's what the lampreyis, is, like, horrifying.
(40:02):
And so just the I idea that orthe the update that that is
successful, and we've usedtechnology and science and just
innovation in general to addressthis issue and and restore
balance and healthy ecosystemsis really exciting.
Amy (40:22):
Exactly. Can be done. We can do it. Right? Well, thanks,
Katie, so much for sharing yourknowledge today on our podcast
Katie (40:30):
Thank you.
Amy (40:31):
About aquatic invasive species. We really appreciate
your time. As we do with everyepisode, we're gonna finish off
with an everyday observationwhere we highlight the mundane
and normal of our environmentthat actually really
interesting. So Abigail, I'llpoint at you first.
Abigail (40:51):
I'm ready. So I leave it's again, it's it's December
right now, even though this isreleased in April, but I I don't
clear my garden. I do, like, acouple of things, but I don't
really I leave mainly everythingup, and I've been doing a lot of
seed collecting, and I had thisthought as I was collecting
(41:12):
seeds that I was like, am Itaking too much? Like, it's all
for donation, but like, youknow, you wanna leave some,
that's kind of the point offeeding wildlife, and, I did not
take too much. I've had a wealthof goldfinches all over my cone
flowers
Amy (41:27):
Yep.
Abigail (41:27):
And it's just been really wonderful to see. Every
time I see them, I kinda go,woah, the goldfinches are out.
And I'm sure my family's tiredof hearing me say, oh, the
goldfinches, but I just they'rejust so pretty, and even when
they're not like that brightgold color, they're still really
pretty, and it's like one of theonly birds I can identify that
is, you know, like and so it'sjust really exciting to see
them. So that's my everyobservation.
Amy (41:49):
They're petite and cute and colorful. Yeah. What about you,
Katie? What's your everydayobservation?
Katie (41:56):
Yeah. So also speaking that it, you know, is December
when we're taping this, theother day, we had one of the
first, I would say, like, youknow, significant snowfalls, and
I was, like, inside. I'm, like,okay. You know, it's kinda
gross. Do I wanna go outside?
And I I convinced myself to gofor a walk down to this pond
that we have in my neighborhood.And just, you know, kind of
(42:19):
observing the geese and watchingthe ice creep in from, like, the
shoreline into the lake andwatching things start to freeze
over was, I would say, ordinary,but kind of especially after
having a really mild winter lastyear, it was kind of cool to
see, you know, ice formationalready in early December to
hear that quietness of the snow,have the geese, you know,
(42:42):
holding out in those littlepockets of open water. So just
kind of a I don't know. This isthe point of winter when it it
it all stills, the snow stillfeels very fresh and exciting.
And that's come February andMarch.
I might be singing a differenttune. But just being down by the
lake and observing the quietnessand of the ice and was just
(43:02):
really nice.
Amy (43:03):
Yeah. I agree. I love the snow. I love the big flakes of
snow. Well, I guess I have anobservation the other day of
that I wanted to share aboutjust seeing a kestrel out.
You know, this is at my mom anddad's place, and they live on a
(43:25):
farm. And so you go, my dad wasreally excited about it. What is
it? What is it? What is it?
What is it? So we, you know, wetalked about the kestrel and,
you know, hovers around andhunts and kind of has a really
cool hunting style. And I toldhim also that not lots of times
you can see him just kind oflike solo sitting on a hot, you
(43:46):
know, electric line a lot. But,you know, when you see them up
close, they're really colorful,really cool, really, you know,
just like meat falcon look, youknow, to them. So and they're
pretty much, I think I mean, Iassume their range is pretty
much across Illinois.
Katie (44:05):
I'm not
Abigail (44:06):
We definitely have one here.
Amy (44:07):
Yeah. I'm not a birder, but, yeah, the the it was really
neat just to just to see thatthat kestrel hanging around. And
so yeah, that's my everydayobservation.
Abigail (44:22):
I love kestrels. I think they're so, like, I mean,
talk about charismatic, right?Like, so pretty, right? Like,
they have different coloring.They're small, they're kinda
cute, and then they're fierce.
Amy (44:34):
Yes. This like, fierce little package, little small
package. Yeah.
Abigail (44:39):
Yeah. So So much,
Katie (44:41):
yes, so much, I don't wanna say attitude, but there's
a lot of personality in a smallpackage.
Amy (44:46):
Yeah. I agree. I agree. If I was a photographer, I'd be
hunting them down to takepictures of them all the time
because they're just so cool.
Abigail (44:55):
One of the smaller I can't remember if they're a hawk
or a falcon.
Amy (45:01):
They're like they're one of the That's pretty true.
Abigail (45:02):
The falcon. They're this I think we're they're one
of the smallest falcon species,I think. Well, now, you know
what? I should stop talkingbecause I've claimed they dealt
with birds, and it's true. Idon't.
So I should just stop.
Katie (45:14):
Can't help you either. Yep. Very limp on that birds.
Abigail (45:18):
Yeah. Katie goes swim swim, not flat flap. Yes.
Katie (45:22):
Deal with the fins, not the feathers.
Amy (45:24):
The feathers. That's fun. Well, it's always fun to learn
though, you know. Now we're nowwe're all gonna go back and, you
know, look up
Katie (45:32):
Right after this, I'm Googling. Yeah. We will be
experts
Amy (45:36):
after this podcast. So come back and come back to the next
episode. We might get you giveyou an update on American
Kestrel. But well, thank youagain, Katie, for joining us
today. We were enlightened by,you know, some and really ended
on a real positive note, wherewe can do we can do things.
(45:56):
There are there are positivesuccess stories when it comes to
invasive species as a whole, sowe can't get down. We gotta keep
moving forward. Right?
Katie (46:04):
Definitely. Yeah. And thank you guys for having me.
It's always always fun to talkabout because there is a lot we
can do, you know, as individualsto help
Amy (46:14):
Mhmm.
Katie (46:14):
Help keep our waters healthy and clean.
Amy (46:18):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this has been another
episode on the EverydayEnvironment podcast. Check us
out next week where we will talkwith members of our nutrient
reduction loss strategy teamhere at Illinois Extension, and
they are going to talk about howfarmers are protecting our
water.
Abigail (46:40):
This podcast is University of Illinois Extension
production, hosted and edited byAbigail Garofalo, Erin Garrett,
and Amy Lefringhaus.
Welcome to another episode of the everyday environment
podcast where we explore theenvironment we see every day.
I'm your host, Amy Lefringhouse.
Abigail (00:14):
And I'm your cohost, Abigail Garofalo.
Amy (00:17):
And today, we are so happy to have Katie O'Reilly. She is
an aquatic invasive speciesspecialist with the Illinois
Indiana Sea Grant. And she'sgonna talk to us a little bit
about aquatic invasive species,and obviously they're aquatic.
Obviously, they're related towater, but that is our topic of
(00:37):
our season this season is water.So welcome, Katie.
We are really glad that you'rehere.
Katie (00:44):
Thank you so much, Amy. Super glad to be here and super
glad to be talking about allthings aquatic invasive species
today.
Fun times. Well, to start off,Katie, why don't you go ahead
and just let our listeners knowwhat you do in your work and,
you know, what do you do on aday to day basis, and how do you
(01:06):
spend your time working for SeaGrant?
Yeah. So in my role with SeaGrant, I do a mix of research
about aquatic invasive speciesas well as outreach and
education, sort of bringingtogether all those different
components to really help us doa better job talking to people.
(01:27):
You know, the science, like anykind of, you know, biological or
chemistry science, can sometimesget sort of technical and and
dry. So we try and understandhow people think to help them or
help us create messages aboutinvasive species that not just
(01:47):
inform them, but help peoplemake decisions about the types
of things that they do, makedecisions about what types of
behaviors they can do to helpeventually prevent and manage
aquatic invasive species. Soit's kinda nice bringing
together you know, I still getto do my research as a
scientist, but I really enjoythe the talking with people and
(02:09):
understanding how to be a bettercommunicator.
Abigail (02:11):
That's awesome. It's all the way through. What is
that I'm sure we've mentioned iton the podcast before, Amy. This
idea of, like, science is notdone until it's communicated. So
to have a person who's, youknow, from the beginning to the
end a little bit is really greatway to ensure that, you know,
that research turns into action.
Katie (02:30):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we can do all the science we
want, you know, in the lab, inthe field, but if we're not
actually getting thatinformation to the people who
who need it, I feel like we'rewe're missing, you know, the
kind of biggest step in theprocess to help people get to be
informed to make thesedecisions. Yeah.
Abigail (02:49):
The why behind the research. Right?
Katie (02:51):
Absolutely.
Amy (02:52):
Real quick, Katie, just a very quick overview of what is
Sea Grant. Like, talk aboutIllinois Indiana Sea Grant, and,
you know, we know what it is,but tell our listeners just,
like, a little snippet of whatthat program is.
Katie (03:07):
Yeah. Absolutely. Illinois Indiana Sea Grant is a
partnership betweenuniversities, plural being that
we're covering two states, soPurdue and University of
Illinois. And it's a partnershipof those universities with the
federal government through theagency, the National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration orNOAA, which is responsible for
(03:30):
doing a lot of, obviously, oceanstuff, but here in in our neck
of the woods, they do a lot ofGreat Lakes focused research and
outreach as well. So it it'sbringing together those two kind
of not disciplines, but twoagencies to really maximize
their ability to reach people.
Amy (03:52):
Great. Thank you for that. We like I said, we know what it
is, but sometimes folks, youknow, don't. So thank you for
explaining that.
Abigail (04:01):
Also, I used to work for Sea Grant. At one point, I
was an intern with them in thesummer, and I also feel like
sometimes I was like, yeah, wewe do outreach, education
related to water, like, it'slike the out and the whole,
like, pieces between because itpartners with a lot of different
organizations. I know we have,like or Sea Grant has some
(04:22):
partnership with EPA, like,Illinois EPA and the Chicago
metropolitan CMAP. The planning,they definitely have a
partnership with the planning,Metropolitan Planning. But yeah,
they partner with a lot of otherand they have like secret staff
in different spaces across bothstates, which is really, really
(04:42):
neat and a really great way toincorporate this awesome
outreach work that that needs tobe done when it comes to our
water. So
Katie (04:50):
Yeah. And I'll I'll say, you know, obviously I'm biased
from the aquatic invasivespecies side of things, but Sea
Grant really does work on sortof all aspects of water, from
water pollution to waterconservation to resiliency of
communities, like in terms offlooding, to aquaculture. So,
like, you name it, if it toucheswater, Sea Grant probably has a
(05:11):
finger in it.
Amy (05:13):
And it's focused on the Great Lakes, but really, I mean,
this podcast is statewide and,you know, I work in West Central
Illinois, and a lot of theresources that Sea Grant
produces, yes, they they reallyare focused, or you are really
focused on Great Lakes, but itcan apply to all of our streams
and, you know, water resourcesthat we have around the state.
Katie (05:36):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, obviously, like, the Great Lakes
are the focus because of theconnection we have to NOAA, but
as we all know, water isn't youknow, doesn't stay in one place.
We all of our systems areconnected, and so really, for us
to protect Lake Michigan, we dolook at it from kind of the
(05:56):
whole state, whole region pointof
Abigail (05:58):
Well, you're here to talk to us a little bit about
aquatic invasives. What arethey? So tell us a little bit
about what an aquatic invasiveis and, you know, why they're a
concern.
Katie (06:10):
Yeah. So aquatic invasive species are species that are not
native, so they're not typicallylike, originally found in a
certain place. They've beenintroduced from somewhere else,
and the key distinction is,like, sometimes you can have non
native species that areintroduced, and they don't, you
know, cause any trouble. They'reperfectly fine. But the species
(06:31):
that we consider invasive arethose that do cause some harm,
whether that's to the nativeenvironment around them or to
the kind of human benefits thatwe gain from our waterways,
things like recreation,transportation, clean drinking
water.
There can be distinctionsbetween, like, what just
(06:51):
something that's been introducedversus something that's been
introduced and is causing a lotof trouble, and that's where the
invasive term comes in.
Abigail (06:58):
Yeah. Like naturalized, right, versus invasive.
Interesting. Is there I know inthe, like, the terrestrial
landscape, there's this idea of,like, hyper locality of, like,
oh, this is, like, nativenessdepends on, you know, are we
talking about, like, eco regionnative to Northeastern Illinois,
(07:19):
native to this part, like, toIllinois, Southern Illinois,
things like that. Is there thatkind of hyperlocality with
aquatic invasives, is it alittle more like state
boundaries, things like that?
Katie (07:30):
You know, that's a really good question. I would say it
can have more of thathyperlocality. Like, for
example, in Illinois, we havespecies that are native to the
southern part of the state, suchas, like, the red swamp
crayfish, but they areconsidered invasive up in the
Chicagoland area. So even withinthe boundaries of, you know, our
(07:50):
state, a species that might befine in one place can cause some
major harm if transported toanother. So yeah. So there is
definitely some hyperlocalityeven within aquatics, which
obviously can swim to new placesif they're given the chance.
Amy (08:06):
That's interesting. I've never really thought about that
with, you know, just within ourstate. Oh, it's native. Yeah.
It's good. You automatically putit on the good list. Right? And
but can cause harm, you know, inother in other areas. That's
very interesting.
Katie (08:21):
Yeah. And one thing that I think is particularly
interesting about Illinois, youknow, despite the sort of
latitudinal gradient we coverfrom the South to the the North,
is that we're at thisintersection between the Great
Lakes and the Mississippi RiverBasin. And that is both a
benefit to our state, you know,in terms of commerce
transportation, but it's also amajor risk in terms of things
(08:45):
that might be invasive in theGreat Lakes making their way
into the Mississippi or viceversa.
Amy (08:49):
Mhmm.
Katie (08:50):
We've seen some of those challenges come up with things
like the invasive carp that arereally common in the Mississippi
River Basin, but we're, like,really concerned about them
making their way into to LakeMichigan. So I think Illinois is
really an interesting case studywhen you're you've got all these
factors kind of combining tomake invasive species science
(09:11):
even more complicated than it itnormally may be.
Amy (09:14):
Lucky us.
Katie (09:15):
Lucky us. Yeah. But it also gives us a lot of
opportunities, and especially, Ithink it makes it so that the
things that we do in Illinoisare really impactful in terms of
preventing invasive species.
Amy (09:29):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Well, you mentioned invasive carp. So what
are some of those aquaticinvasive species that you're
kind of focusing in on on yourstudies or even communication
that we're worried about here inIllinois?
Katie (09:44):
Yeah. So my team at Sea Grant kind of talks about a
variety of different species,but one that you brought up or
that I brought up originally isprobably one of our most
notorious, and that's theinvasive carp, which are
actually a group of fourdifferent species of fish. And
our main concern with these guysis they just explode in
(10:06):
population numbers to the pointof, like, know, the Illinois
River is now think biomass is,like, 70 invasive carp, which
Really? Is a stat that justblows my mind.
Oh,
Abigail (10:19):
that's wild to think about.
Katie (10:22):
And and one of those species of carp is called the
silver carp, and those are theguys that you might have seen
the videos of where they're,like, jumping out of boats, or
jumping out of the water intoboats, hitting people in the
face. Mhmm. So it that becomes,like, even more of an evocative
image of, like, oh, something isamiss here. Mhmm.
(10:43):
But beyond the invasive carp,which are definitely a main
focus, my team does a lot ofwork with invasive crayfish. And
so crayfish, for those whoaren't familiar, are little
crustaceans. They look a bitlike baby lobsters. And there's
a lot of different species ofcrayfish both in Illinois and
(11:05):
across the Great Lakes Basin,most of which are are native.
But there are a couple such asthe red swamp crayfish, which
have, you know, either expandedtheir range or then been
introduced somewhere else in thebasin.
And those guys are causing a lotof harm because they get bigger
than our native crayfish, sothey can basically bully them
(11:26):
out of habitat and foodresources, as well as they
actually create sort of they digburrows in the side of streams,
and that causes erosion of thestream bank into you know, kind
of in on itself. So they it's aone two punch to native species,
both out competing them and thenmodifying the habitat around
(11:48):
them.
Abigail (11:49):
That probably increases, like, that burrowing
and that erosion probably makesa huge sediment pollution
problem too. Yeah. Andsedimentation, I mean,
Katie (12:01):
it's kind of interesting. Both the crayfish and the carp
cause some sedimentation issues.With the grass carp, which is
one of those four species ofinvasive carp we're dealing
with, they tend to eat aquaticvegetation. And so, like, in
doing that, they tear up thebottom of the pond or stream and
cause a lot of sedimentation. Soit's just like you can have some
(12:26):
of these impacts that aresimilar between invasive
species, and sometimes they evencompound if you've got multiple
invasive species in the samewater body.
Abigail (12:35):
So we're seeing these invasives, these aquatic
invasives, decreasebiodiversity. Right? Like we're
seeing this, like, themexploding in population. We're
also seeing them destroyinghabitat. Right?
And then altering habitat allaltogether, from an ecosystem
level. What are some economicimpacts we're seeing from these
invasives?
Katie (12:56):
Yeah. So with the carp example, you know, in addition
to the biodiversity loss, whatwe're seeing is an impact to
native fish that arecommercially important. Things
that used to be sport fish on,say, like, Illinois River are
have decreased in numbers, sothat is, you know, reducing how
many people might necessarilywant to go out fishing for a day
(13:19):
to to catch things. Also, Iguess there is an allure to,
like, having flying fish aroundyou, but some boaters don't
wanna go out if there's a riskyou're gonna get hit with a, you
know, 50 pound Mhmm. Carp in theface.
They can get big. It's crazy.
Amy (13:33):
It is. I worked as an intern with the history survey,
and, yeah, we would I mean,we're going we're idling
through, but, I mean, you'regoing at, I mean, a huge, not a
fast clip, but you're idlingthrough, so you're going, we
would put, we would have trashcan lids, like that was our like
armor
Abigail (13:54):
Shields!
Amy (13:56):
they are, and we even took the Master Naturalist group out
earlier this fall on theMississippi in Pool 20, we were
in Pool 20, and they experiencedthe fish, and you know, we had a
(14:17):
whole group of people and itwas, I got a little nervous as
the risk management person, youknow, that was on the boat, like
what if this does hit somebody,you know, so, and we were just
kinda just slowly going through,but, yeah. If you were skiing, I
mean, if you're a recreationalboater and you're skiing or
whatever Yeah. Anyway Yeah.
Katie (14:36):
No. I mean, that's an excellent point, Amy. I mean,
just that sort of concern,quantifying, like, what that
means in terms of lostrecreation. Sure. You know, does
that mean I don't know ifanyone's done, like, a study
necessarily to to put numbers onthat, but you we can imagine
that there has been a reduction,and that those obviously have
(14:57):
cascading impacts to the townsthat are on the Illinois River,
on the Mississippi River thatmay rely on some of that, you
know, fishing
Amy (15:06):
Mhmm.
Katie (15:06):
Recreational fishing money to come in.
Amy (15:08):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Abigail (15:10):
I would say too, like, on the resources of just
removing them in the like, doingmanagement in the first place of
these is that's a lot on a,like, on a state organization,
thinking about prevent we weretalking about this, you know,
confluence of the two basins, ofthe two watersheds, you know,
preventing them from getting inthe Great Lakes in the first
(15:32):
place. Like, I mean, I'm sure alot of capacity, energy, time,
money is going into, like, thesesteps to prevent them from
getting in there, because oncethey're in there, it's so much
worse. So, like, a lot ofinvestment.
Katie (15:45):
Oh, absolutely. And I mean, one of the biggest
investment areas right now is atthe Brandon Road Lock, which is
around Joliet, and it's sort ofthe connection between the
waterways surrounding Chicagoand Lake Michigan ultimately,
and the IllinoisRiverMississippi River Basin.
And this has been a projectthat's sort of been in, I don't
(16:08):
know, the cooking stages for along time. Just recently, the
states of Michigan and Illinois,like, came to an agreement in
terms of, you know, payments sothat construction can go
forward. But like you said,Abigail, that is a billion
dollar project, which is gonnacreate this sort of I almost
think of it as like a gauntletfor Carp because it's not just
(16:31):
gonna be, like, one one barrierthat they're gonna put in to try
and stop them.
It's actually a series ofdifferent control measures, like
carbon dioxide bubbling,acoustics to use sound to try
and deter them, sort of layeredon top of each other so that the
idea being if a carp sneaks pastone of those barriers, it it'll
(16:55):
get caught by something else.But that is so clearly an
illustration of what youmentioned in terms of just the
cost of prevention, which isstill cheaper than the cost of
trying to control after thefact.
Amy (17:07):
Mhmm. Mhmm. We talked about invasive carp, and we talked
about crayfish. Are there anyplants, like if we moved over
into the plant world, that youguys are focused in on, or or,
again, communicating to thepublic about?
Katie (17:23):
Yeah. So one species of aquatic plant that we're I would
say is kind of top of mind forus in terms of our research and
communication is calledhydrilla. And so this is a
Aquatic plants are always fun totry and communicate about. It's
like, oh, it's a green thingthat grows in the water, you
know, and leaves are sorta likethis, but so Right. Plants
(17:47):
aren't quite as charismatic assome of our our animals, but the
hydrilla challenge, and and thisis a species that's become
established kind of in theSoutheastern US, But the problem
with hydrilla is it grows inthese huge masses on the water,
which can, you know, preventsunlight from getting into the
(18:07):
water.
It can cause these big die offswhich reduce the amount of
oxygen that's available forspecies, can make it really
tough to get your boat in andout of the water because it
clogs up your your
Abigail (18:19):
is it on top of the water, like the leaves on top,
or is it, like, within theground? Like, I'm sure it's
rooted under It's rooted underWhere do the leaves sit?
Katie (18:26):
The leaves kinda sit near the surface. Oh. So it's not
kind of like semi floating butattached. And the challenge,
especially with hydrilla too, isit it has this connection to the
the bottom, and it has theselittle tubers that it it grows
(18:47):
from, but it can also grow fromjust having pieces of it sort of
cut off.
So fragments of it can floatdownstream and sprout a new
plant, which also not great whenyou're dealing with water where,
you know, water systems whereyou have boats coming through,
chopping stuff up, even justwave action. Luckily, we've only
(19:08):
had a couple of confirmedreports of hydrilla in Illinois
so far, and of those reports,they've generally been well, one
found early, and two found insemi controllable environments,
like a neighborhood pond. Sure.Where a lot of effort can be put
(19:29):
in, but you can actually I hateit right off the bat. So far
we've been sort of lucky, but Ithink that's been in part
because people have noticedthese things early on, and
reported it to someone to belike, hey, this plant doesn't
look like it should be here.
Abigail (19:50):
How is hydrilla, or even any other species, aquatic
invasives, getting introduced inthe first place?
Katie (19:59):
So with hydrilla, we're, I would say, mostly confident
that it's coming from aquariumreleases. So this is a plant
that's popular in, like, theaquarium and water garden trade.
And generally, because we'reseeing it in just these isolated
areas, it it almost seems likeit's someone dumped, say, like
(20:19):
an aquarium or, wasn't able,like, to care for a pet or
something any longer. So thatseems like the main pathway for
hydrilla. For things like thecarp, those were more releases
from aquaculture ponds in theSoutheastern US that have made
their way up the MississippiRiver. So not necessarily the
(20:40):
same method, but gets getsanimals in the water either way.
And with the crayfish, actually,the the red swamp crayfish, one
of their major introductionpathways is those are the type
of crayfish that if you've everdone, like, a Louisiana style
crayfish boil or crawfish boilYeah.
Sometimes you can buy like thosebig bags of live crayfish, and
(21:04):
occasionally, you know, somehave managed to to get out and
survive. That that's one pathwaythat we're looking into for the
red swamp crayfish.
Abigail (21:13):
Somebody thinking that they're being kind to the
animals that were gonna be eatenand actually
Katie (21:18):
Right. Saved yeah. I'm gonna save this guy. Good luck.
Abigail (21:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely releasing things into the water
is like a big no no. Like it'sjust just don't do it, you know?
Yeah.
It's you're not helping. You'renot helping, unfortunately.
Katie (21:31):
Yeah. Despite what Finding Nemo might have, you
know, showed you, it's not onlyis it potentially harmful if
those species become invasive,but a lot of sort of captive
raised pets don't have thesurvival skills they would need
in the wild. So it's probablynot gonna be a good end outcome
(21:55):
either way, releasing a nativeor, you know, releasing a a pet
that's not native to an area.
Abigail (22:01):
Or a lunch that you didn't end up cooking and
eating. Or, yeah, or a crawfishthat didn't make it
Katie (22:06):
to the boil, or or, you know, if you had a piece of bait
or a live live bait that you hadin your bucket that you didn't
need at the end of the day. Whenin doubt, yeah, don't release
anything that you don't know forcertain came from that
particular water body waterbody.
Amy (22:23):
Well, that reminds me of places I've been, boat ramps
that I've been at, and I workedwhen I was younger in Minnesota.
I felt like at all the boatramps, there was a lot of
communication signs and thingsthat talked about, Make sure
you're cleaning off your boat.No vegetation. You know? Make
(22:43):
sure you're not dumping livebait into the water.
And what are some, like,communication methods that you
guys are using to I mean,obviously this podcast, of
course, but, like, what other,like, ways do are you thinking
about as far as communicatingand alerting people about
invasive species that they mightlook for out in there, wherever
(23:07):
they're going, wherever they'rerecreating, I guess, on water
bodies, yeah. Just talk aboutthat a little bit.
Katie (23:13):
Yeah. Absolutely. So I actually have two examples that
I'll probably use because it'skind of focused on two different
audiences. So one is similar towhat you were saying, Amy.
Actually, that outreach app boatlaunches kind of where where
people are going to recreate.
And so this past summer, my teamdid a study up in the
(23:37):
Chicagoland area where wetraveled to a bunch of different
boat launches to do a mix ofdata collection. So essentially,
we were looking to see whatsigns existed at that launch,
you know, what had been put inover the years.
Amy (23:52):
Mhmm.
Katie (23:53):
We also did observation of boaters to see were they
actually looking at the signs?Did they, you know, hang out in
places that were near signs?Sure. And we did a survey to try
and understand not only theirtheir use of the boat launch,
but sort of what were theirmotivations for not just
(24:13):
boating, but, like, cleaningtheir boat afterwards. So trying
to understand that behaviorcomponent.
And so you are in the process ofanalyzing those data to make
some recommendations to theIllinois Department of Natural
Resources about, you know, whattypes of signs might be helpful,
placement at different launches.Because obviously, people are
(24:34):
out on the water to have a goodtime, like that's the boating
and fishing. But how do weprovide enough information
that's not just in a way thatsort of you see a sign and you
just gloss over, you're like,I'm not even gonna read that up.
So I think we've got some someinteresting observations we
made. You know, people really dowant to prevent invasive
(24:56):
species.
When we when we talk to them,they're like, you know, I care
about this lake I've been comingto for Mhmm. You know, fifteen,
twenty years. I've noticed thesethings, and, you know, I wanna
prevent invasive species, buthere are some of the barriers I
feel like are preventing me. Sothat was helpful for our team
(25:17):
because it gave us informationto sort of refine some of the
messaging and communication wewere doing and understand a
small subset, you know, that wesurveyed, that we talked to,
that we observed, to just havemore information to work with so
that we can make it morerelevant for that audience.
Abigail (25:36):
Yeah. I was gonna say that's so helpful to like get
that direct feedback because weknow, I mean, we all are working
communications and education,and we know that like, just
telling somebody somethingdoesn't actually get them to do
it. I mean, we all know that weneed to eat so many fruits and
veggies a day, and reducecertain things, but, you know,
we all don't eat the things thatare recommended for So how can
(26:00):
we expect others in our line ofwork to be like, if I just tell
you, you should do it. Right? Sogetting that feedback on like
what what are the barriers toyou doing that?
It's not just that you don'tknow. So what can we do instead?
Right? Or what are systems thatexist that can prevent the
introduction in the first placeor or, you know, make it easier
for you or incentivize you alittle bit more.
Katie (26:22):
That's Absolutely. Yeah. Same way, like you said, you
know, we know we should eat ourveggies. We know we should
exercise every day. Boaters, youknow, know they should clean
their boat.
They know they shouldn't, youknow, let any vegetation stick
to the end. But, you know,sometimes there might not be the
equipment at a boat launch, likehaving access to water so that
(26:43):
they could wipe you know, rinsedown their boat or not having
the space at a boat launch to beable to, like, pull off and and
clean things. So I I think it'sthe same way. We can tell them,
you know, oh, clean your boat,drain, drive. But if they don't
if they don't feel like it'saccessible enough to them or
(27:05):
that they, you know, may nothave the right tools, they're
less likely to to do so.
Amy (27:10):
What was the other example, Katie? Did you say it another
Yeah.
Katie (27:13):
Yeah. So the other example is kind of on the
alternate, you know. So we wetalked a lot with boaters and
anglers in the field, but wealso have done a lot of work
with aquarium shops and baitshops around the state. And so
we we did sort of a blitz thispast fall where we visited,
wanna say at least 30 shops inperson and then had another 50
(27:36):
that we, you know, communicatedwith through mail and email. And
this was really a way for us,not necessarily to talk to the
customers of these shops, but totalk with the owners and
retailers themselves.
Because we found in sort of pastwork that we've done, customers
really look to, like, a aquariumstore owner or employee for the
(28:01):
information about, you know,whatever species they're buying.
Like, that's a trusted resourcefor them. And so in our little,
like, communication blitz thispast year, we really tried to
not only just give theseretailers outreach brochures,
other information, but we wantedto start conversations with them
(28:24):
about, like, what are thingsthat your customers are
concerned about? What are thingsthat you wish you had? Some of
them were like, yeah.
I get these these animals, butI'm not always sure that they're
exactly what the packaging saysbecause there's, like, confusing
common names. It'd be helpful ifI had some, you know,
(28:45):
identification guides that werenot made for scientists. Yeah.
You know, people who aren't inour little bubbles understand.
And then as part of that too, wealso have a a course, an online
course that the retailers cantake, which is sort of a short
(29:06):
little, I don't wanna say like acertification, but it's part
like, we call it our greenretailer program.
And so if they complete thecourse, which provides
information about not onlyinvasive species in general, but
sort of what are the rules andregulations in Illinois that
pertain to, like, buying andselling non native species. We
(29:28):
have it so that if they takethis little mini course, they
can be part of our Be A Herowebsite, which is our invasive
species messaging campaign, tosort of show that they are a
retailer who is, I don't wannasay, passionate, like, they
care, responsible and they wantto be able to provide the best
(29:50):
information to their customers.I think in in doing this, we
felt it was really important togo in person to have some of
these conversations because ithelps start building those
relationships so that they knowthat, hey. This person from Sea
Grant, this person from theuniversity is someone I can go
to with questions that and theydon't feel necessarily like, oh,
(30:12):
this is someone who's gonna forbecause we're not enforcement an
enforcement agency. Right.
It's not like, oh, they're I canask them questions and not feel
like, uh-oh, if I get introuble, you know, something's
gonna happen.
Amy (30:23):
Mhmm.
Abigail (30:24):
I had no idea about that, like, certification
course, you know, like thatyeah. That's really cool and
that I mean, I see the Be A HeroTransport Zero, like, stickers
and campaigns always when I goto, IDNR sites and I think
they're also at some forestpreserve sites, which is really
great. Hats off to you all for,like, looking at the sourcing.
(30:45):
Right? And then being like, whatcan we do about that to
incentivize?
That's a really, really neatprogram.
Katie (30:52):
Yeah. Definitely. And I mean, I think it just speaks to
a broader point, which is tryingto figure out with these
different audiences, whetherit's anglers, boaters, aquarium
owners, who who are the peoplethat they go to for information?
Who are their trusted sources?And then being able to have
those people sort of be informedby our science, by our outreach,
(31:16):
because we know that they havethose audiences already
listening to them.
They know that they're a trustedsource. Whereas some people
might just see us as like, oh,it's that scientist from, you
know, the university. So I thinkbuilding those relationships is
really something that we try andtry and invest time and effort
into. Mhmm.
Amy (31:35):
And speaking to them about something that they care about,
right? Yeah. Absolutely. Theycare about that ecosystem that
they use for recreation or or,you know, whatever, or even
their pets, you know. That's awhole world that I've never even
thought about before, so I findthat really fascinating.
I thought, I think it would bereally interesting to go visit
(31:57):
pet shops and things like that,and that, yeah, that whole world
would be something I wouldn'tknow anything about. So that's
really neat, a neat program toeducate business owners. I think
business owners are, maybe, I'mnot, I guess just assuming, but
you know, they're looking forthings to differentiate
themselves as a part ofbusiness, right? And so becoming
(32:20):
a responsible business owner,responsible, you know,
environmental citizen andshowing that to their customers,
you know, could be a benefit forthem too. So that's interesting.
Katie (32:32):
Yeah. Absolutely. I I would say too, I mean, beyond
that and and obviously, lot ofthem are very passionate about
their animals. Like, they wantwhat's best for them, and they
are really cognizant of notwanting to hurt the environment.
That's why they got into it,because they love animals.
Right. But I would also say onething that we've heard, because
(32:53):
we've we've done some surveys inthe past too, is they also want,
like, they wanna make sure thattheir industry is not like a
scapegoat for, like, oh, well,it's always the pet trade fault
that invasive species get out.So there's somewhat of that too,
like they don't want to incurany additional restrictions or
(33:15):
regulations, so there's somewhatof a want to sort of, let's get
ahead of this before thisbecomes something that is forced
upon us. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Abigail (33:27):
Yeah. Definitely. Because they're the ones who
kind of know their industry.Right? If it's kind of
regulations are put in place ina play from individuals that
aren't, you know, part of it,
Katie (33:41):
they they don't know what to expect. Right? So Right.
Exactly.
Abigail (33:45):
We're kinda talking about, like, prevention from an
industry level. Our listenersare often members of the public.
Maybe they're involved indifferent industries, things
like that. How can the publichelp prevent the spread of
aquatic invasives?
Katie (33:59):
Yeah. So, I mean, we have talked a lot about industry, but
really it does come down to alot of individual actions. When
you know, a lot of people mightthink, oh, well, maybe I'm not a
boater, so it doesn't matter,you know, I clean my boat, or I
don't have aquarium pets, so I'mnot gonna release them. I would
say, you know, thinking aboutyour day to day life, the best
(34:22):
way to prevent an invasivespecies is to take actions that
relate to whatever hobby you do.You know, if you like to fish,
maybe it's not releasing anylive bait.
If you like to garden, makingsure that if you're using any
water plants, those are nativespecies.
Amy (34:41):
Mhmm.
Katie (34:42):
So there are specific actions depending on, like, what
your particular hobby is,whether it's clean, drain,
drying drying your boat Mhmm.Not dumping your pets. But I
would also say, also just beingkind of cognizant of the world
around you, because we do knowthat early detection of invasive
species is one of the best wayswe can, you know, eradicate them
(35:05):
and control them before theybecome sort of unfeasible to to
manage. And that's something Ithink everybody can do. You
know, if you're out, you go to aa park and you walk on a trail
along a river, if you notice,hey, there's some weird plants
I've never seen before.
Maybe just mentioning it to aranger. There are things like
(35:27):
apps. I think of things likeiNaturalist that can help you
identify things if you're like,do I really, you know, wanna
take you know, bring this up tothe ranger? Are they gonna think
I'm silly because this is like anormal species? So if that,
like, is a constraint, there aretools that can help you ID
unusual things.
But I I would say that's one ofthe ways that anyone can help is
(35:50):
just observing the world aroundyou. And if you notice something
that just kinda seems off, youknow, letting if it's, you know,
in the state, letting theIllinois Department of Natural
Resources know, letting a local,like, park ranger know, any of
those would be good goodactions. Extension office?
(36:11):
Extend exactly your localextension office, for sure.
Amy (36:14):
Mhmm. Mhmm. I was just gonna say those are good
because, you know, I can picturemyself hiking along a trail,
along a lake. I can picturemyself gardening. I can pick you
know, those are really good.
I can picture myself doing thosethings and thinking, oh, yeah. I
guess I could help. I I mightnot have even known that I could
help, but I can help. So I likethat.
Katie (36:36):
Right. And I mean, it it's somewhat different than,
like, terrestrial speciesbecause we're not always
necessarily in the water or evenaround the water. I often think
of aquatic invasive species aresometimes, like, out of sight or
out of mind because unless youapparently really love
snorkeling, you're not always,like, hanging out underneath the
surface of the water. You maynot know what's going on. So I
(36:57):
think the more eyes we can have,whether it's people specifically
involved in recreation withwater, or just people who enjoy
sitting by the lake andwatching, the better chance we
have to catch things early on.
Well, wonderful.
Amy (37:13):
Anything else, Katie, that you wanna add that we didn't ask
you today that you wanna add forour listeners?
Katie (37:20):
You know, I think one thing I would add is it can
often be somewhat depressing totalk about invasive species
because you're like, oh gosh,okay, it's here. What are we
gonna do about it? But I willsay that there we have had
successes in managing someinvasive species. One that comes
to mind for me is the infamoussea lamprey, which, you know,
(37:42):
isn't exactly the mostaesthetically pleasing fish, but
essentially, these are parasitesthat live on fish species, and
they cause a lot of damagebecause they oftentimes kill
their host. But while this was ahuge issue in the Great Lakes,
especially in, like, the midtwentieth century, a lot of
(38:04):
resources and effort were putinto developing control methods
for the lamprey, mainly throughthe application of essentially,
it's a lampricide, so like anherbicide but targeted for
lamprey.
And that program has, over theyears, has really I mean, we
went from having so many lampreyin the Great Lakes to a really
(38:24):
manageable number. They're notgone, and they probably won't be
gone, but it's at a level that'snot impacting our native
ecosystems anymore. Now grantedthat has been a very expensive
program over the years, and itdoes cost money annually to keep
it going. But I think at leastit's it's shown that putting the
(38:47):
effort towards coming up withsolutions can sometimes mitigate
the worst of the impacts ofinvasive species even if we
can't get rid of them totallyaltogether.
Amy (38:58):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Abigail (39:00):
Yeah. I love the, I love the throwback to, longtime
listeners of the pod know thatwe did cover, Lamprey in a,
like, a Halloween episode in2023. So, excited to have that
throwback, and I'm excited tohear that it is managed now
like, manageable now. I mean, Ithink we we all kind of know
(39:21):
that the management humanmanagement of disrupted
ecosystems long term is justkind of necessary given the
status of our of our ecosystemand how we've altered the
ecology of our world. But thefact that this can be shown as a
success story is really, reallyexciting to hear because I
(39:41):
remember hearing about thelamprey initially in college and
being like, these are gonna killeverything.
Giant fish keels. The shores arecovered in dead fish and like,
you know, like and and they'recreepy too. Like, you look at
them and they're like thethey're like, you know, the
what's the opposite ofcharismatic species? Right?
Like, that's what the lampreyis, is, like, horrifying.
(40:02):
And so just the I idea that orthe the update that that is
successful, and we've usedtechnology and science and just
innovation in general to addressthis issue and and restore
balance and healthy ecosystemsis really exciting.
Amy (40:22):
Exactly. Can be done. We can do it. Right? Well, thanks,
Katie, so much for sharing yourknowledge today on our podcast
Katie (40:30):
Thank you.
Amy (40:31):
About aquatic invasive species. We really appreciate
your time. As we do with everyepisode, we're gonna finish off
with an everyday observationwhere we highlight the mundane
and normal of our environmentthat actually really
interesting. So Abigail, I'llpoint at you first.
Abigail (40:51):
I'm ready. So I leave it's again, it's it's December
right now, even though this isreleased in April, but I I don't
clear my garden. I do, like, acouple of things, but I don't
really I leave mainly everythingup, and I've been doing a lot of
seed collecting, and I had thisthought as I was collecting
(41:12):
seeds that I was like, am Itaking too much? Like, it's all
for donation, but like, youknow, you wanna leave some,
that's kind of the point offeeding wildlife, and, I did not
take too much. I've had a wealthof goldfinches all over my cone
flowers
Amy (41:27):
Yep.
Abigail (41:27):
And it's just been really wonderful to see. Every
time I see them, I kinda go,woah, the goldfinches are out.
And I'm sure my family's tiredof hearing me say, oh, the
goldfinches, but I just they'rejust so pretty, and even when
they're not like that brightgold color, they're still really
pretty, and it's like one of theonly birds I can identify that
is, you know, like and so it'sjust really exciting to see
them. So that's my everyobservation.
Amy (41:49):
They're petite and cute and colorful. Yeah. What about you,
Katie? What's your everydayobservation?
Katie (41:56):
Yeah. So also speaking that it, you know, is December
when we're taping this, theother day, we had one of the
first, I would say, like, youknow, significant snowfalls, and
I was, like, inside. I'm, like,okay. You know, it's kinda
gross. Do I wanna go outside?
And I I convinced myself to gofor a walk down to this pond
that we have in my neighborhood.And just, you know, kind of
(42:19):
observing the geese and watchingthe ice creep in from, like, the
shoreline into the lake andwatching things start to freeze
over was, I would say, ordinary,but kind of especially after
having a really mild winter lastyear, it was kind of cool to
see, you know, ice formationalready in early December to
hear that quietness of the snow,have the geese, you know,
(42:42):
holding out in those littlepockets of open water. So just
kind of a I don't know. This isthe point of winter when it it
it all stills, the snow stillfeels very fresh and exciting.
And that's come February andMarch.
I might be singing a differenttune. But just being down by the
lake and observing the quietnessand of the ice and was just
(43:02):
really nice.
Amy (43:03):
Yeah. I agree. I love the snow. I love the big flakes of
snow. Well, I guess I have anobservation the other day of
that I wanted to share aboutjust seeing a kestrel out.
You know, this is at my mom anddad's place, and they live on a
(43:25):
farm. And so you go, my dad wasreally excited about it. What is
it? What is it? What is it?
What is it? So we, you know, wetalked about the kestrel and,
you know, hovers around andhunts and kind of has a really
cool hunting style. And I toldhim also that not lots of times
you can see him just kind oflike solo sitting on a hot, you
(43:46):
know, electric line a lot. But,you know, when you see them up
close, they're really colorful,really cool, really, you know,
just like meat falcon look, youknow, to them. So and they're
pretty much, I think I mean, Iassume their range is pretty
much across Illinois.
Katie (44:05):
I'm not
Abigail (44:06):
We definitely have one here.
Amy (44:07):
Yeah. I'm not a birder, but, yeah, the the it was really
neat just to just to see thatthat kestrel hanging around. And
so yeah, that's my everydayobservation.
Abigail (44:22):
I love kestrels. I think they're so, like, I mean,
talk about charismatic, right?Like, so pretty, right? Like,
they have different coloring.They're small, they're kinda
cute, and then they're fierce.
Amy (44:34):
Yes. This like, fierce little package, little small
package. Yeah.
Abigail (44:39):
Yeah. So So much,
Katie (44:41):
yes, so much, I don't wanna say attitude, but there's
a lot of personality in a smallpackage.
Amy (44:46):
Yeah. I agree. I agree. If I was a photographer, I'd be
hunting them down to takepictures of them all the time
because they're just so cool.
Abigail (44:55):
One of the smaller I can't remember if they're a hawk
or a falcon.
Amy (45:01):
They're like they're one of the That's pretty true.
Abigail (45:02):
The falcon. They're this I think we're they're one
of the smallest falcon species,I think. Well, now, you know
what? I should stop talkingbecause I've claimed they dealt
with birds, and it's true. Idon't.
So I should just stop.
Katie (45:14):
Can't help you either. Yep. Very limp on that birds.
Abigail (45:18):
Yeah. Katie goes swim swim, not flat flap. Yes.
Katie (45:22):
Deal with the fins, not the feathers.
Amy (45:24):
The feathers. That's fun. Well, it's always fun to learn
though, you know. Now we're nowwe're all gonna go back and, you
know, look up
Katie (45:32):
Right after this, I'm Googling. Yeah. We will be
experts
Amy (45:36):
after this podcast. So come back and come back to the next
episode. We might get you giveyou an update on American
Kestrel. But well, thank youagain, Katie, for joining us
today. We were enlightened by,you know, some and really ended
on a real positive note, wherewe can do we can do things.
(45:56):
There are there are positivesuccess stories when it comes to
invasive species as a whole, sowe can't get down. We gotta keep
moving forward. Right?
Katie (46:04):
Definitely. Yeah. And thank you guys for having me.
It's always always fun to talkabout because there is a lot we
can do, you know, as individualsto help
Amy (46:14):
Mhmm.
Katie (46:14):
Help keep our waters healthy and clean.
Amy (46:18):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this has been another
episode on the EverydayEnvironment podcast. Check us
out next week where we will talkwith members of our nutrient
reduction loss strategy teamhere at Illinois Extension, and
they are going to talk about howfarmers are protecting our
water.
Abigail (46:40):
This podcast is University of Illinois Extension
production, hosted and edited byAbigail Garofalo, Erin Garrett,
and Amy Lefringhaus.
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