October 17, 2024 • 39 mins
This week we welcome guests Sue Gasper and Gemini Bhalsod with Illinois Extension to chat about composting and how we can use this process to divert food waste from the landfill, where it often releases greenhouse gases as it decomposes, into backyard composts that reduce the greenhouse gases released. Join us to explore how to compost, its benefits, and its challenges. Learn more on the Everyday Environment blog.
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Episode Transcript
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Abigail Garofalo (00:06):
Welcome to another episode of the Everyday
Environment podcast, where weexplore the environment we see
every day. I'm your host,Abigail Garofalo.
Erin Garrett (00:14):
And I'm your cohost, Erin Garrett.
Abigail Garofalo (00:16):
And today, we are joined by Sue Gasper and
Gemini Bhalsod, our, Cook Countyeducators in STEM and
horticulture respectively tochat about composting and all
about, you know, composting andhow climate change has to do
with that. So welcome, you two.
Gemini Bhalsod (00:35):
Welcome. Thanks for having us.
Sue Gasper (00:37):
Yeah. Thank you.
Abigail Garofalo (00:39):
Yeah. And, again, we're talking about
climate change this season, sowe're really trying to figure
out what are some solutions,what are ways that we're
addressing it, how are thingsimpacted by climate change. And
so we're really excited toaddress this kind of food waste
sector of climate change and howwe're addressing food waste and
and, greenhouse gas releasing.And so let's just start with the
(01:00):
basics. Can you explain to uswhat composting is and and how
it works?
Sue Gasper (01:06):
Yeah. So composting is really the controlled,
aerobic, biologicaldecomposition of organic matter
into a stable product calledcompost. So it's basically the
same process as naturaldecomposition, except it's
enhanced and accelerated bymixing organic waste with other
(01:28):
ingredients to optimizemicrobial growth.
Gemini Bhalsod (01:33):
Yeah. So really with composting, our job as
humans is to just manage thecomposting environment because
we wanna optimize microbialgrowth. Those microbes are doing
that decomposition work.
Abigail Garofalo (01:46):
So we're again, lessons from nature. One
of my favorite things to talkabout is how can we just find
nature based solutions and makelife work just a little bit
easier for us because nature'sgot it going on already. So
that's great.
Erin Garrett (01:58):
So what are some of the main benefits of
composting, for our environment,but also for us, for the
everyday person?
Sue Gasper (02:08):
Yeah. So a major benefit to the environment of
composting is the removal oforganic waste from landfills.
And when we say organic, we'retalking about stuff that was
once living. And so when thatgoes into a landfill, it
undergoes microbialdecomposition but in the absence
(02:28):
of oxygen. So that's calledanaerobic decomposition. And
that mode of decompositiongenerates a gas called methane
that's a really potentgreenhouse gas. So composting
organic waste, instead ofputting it in the landfill,
means that there will be lessmethane generated, and less
(02:49):
methane in the atmosphere meansless energy trapped in the
atmosphere and less globalwarming.
Abigail Garofalo (02:56):
Okay. Yeah. So lots of buzzwords when it comes
to climate change, things thatwe wanna know. Right? So we got
methane. We got, greenhousegases released in the
atmosphere, global warming. Soworse what you're saying is,
like, the that methane reallyaccelerates that kind of
greenhouse gas effect. Right? Itkind of that
Sue Gasper (03:15):
Exactly.
Abigail Garofalo (03:17):
Yeah, and then that's what's accelerating our
changing climate or the resultsof our changing climate is
global warming. Right? So
Sue Gasper (03:25):
I know, like, Gemini and I looked up some EPA stats
about Illinois, and Illinoislandfills receive typically,
like, almost 20,000,000 tons ofwaste per year. And it's kind of
astounding. Like, 20 nearly 21%of that is food scraps. So we
(03:46):
have a lot of food scraps goinginto landfills that could be
composted.
Abigail Garofalo (03:51):
That's so I think about, so I compost in my
house, and when I go visit,like, my parents who don't
compost, I'm always like, thisjust the trash goes in the like,
you you forget how when itbecomes normal in your house,
you forget, like, how muchactually people put in the trash
when they don't compost becauseit's like a whole other sector
of your trash can that isn't,doesn't have to be in there.
(04:13):
That's crazy.
Gemini Bhalsod (04:14):
I was just gonna say that there are some other
benefits outside of just the theprocess of composting if you
wanted to chat about compostusage and how we can use some of
those end products to benefitpeople in the environment as
well.
Abigail Garofalo (04:30):
Yeah. I absolutely wanna hear those
things. I think we all wannahear that. Right?
Gemini Bhalsod (04:35):
So, obviously, at the end of the composting
process, you have this thingcalled compost, and you can do a
lot of stuff with it. You cancreate you know, you're creating
your own soil amendment for yourhome or for your local community
garden or community environment.And that compost when put on
your soil does a lot of goodthings for it. Right? It slowly
(04:55):
releases nutrients over time.It's good for plants. It also
can increase soil water holdingcapacity, so decreases runoff
and controls erosion on a reallylarge scale. Compost has been
used on the banks of, like,river or water, sloped banks to
help control that runoff anderosion. But it is important to
(05:20):
be cautious about a couplethings, you know, compost is
great, but it's not just a magicthing that will fix all of our
soil problems. Right? It'sreally important to understand
your application and usage ratesbecause over application of
compost can really lead tonutrient runoff and downstream
effects that we're unaware of.It can also it's really
(05:43):
important to also avoidcontaminated feedstocks,
especially if you wanna use thatcompost, around growing food and
growing vegetables.
Abigail Garofalo (05:53):
Tell me more about, like, this contaminating
feedstocks.
Gemini Bhalsod (05:56):
Yeah. So this is a part of, something that we are
learning a lot more about, Andso there has been a lot of
concern about contaminatedcompost with, things like PFAS
and those forever chemicals.And, you know, we're still
learning about the science ofwhat that how that works in the
(06:18):
environment. Right? And sothere's a lot of unknowns there,
but we know that, like,composting can degrade certain
chemicals, but certainchemicals, like, do not get
broken down in the compostingprocess. And so if you're
starting with a contaminatedfeedstock and you're composting
it, contamination might still bein your end product there.
Abigail Garofalo (06:41):
Yeah. Not everything decomposes the same,
and there are certain, chemicalsand and, products that may not
decompose completely and stickaround. And, what I love about
this podcast is it's an evergrowing, understanding of, like,
how can we learn more? Maybe thelesson is, like, we're always
(07:03):
try like, inform yourself, tryand figure out what's going on,
and asking those questions isreally important. And so the
answer that is unsatisfying,right, is, like, we don't know.
It's still a growing body ofresearch. That data is still not
there quite yet, and we're allworking on learning more about
it. And so I think it'ssomething important to know and
(07:24):
learn about and kind of askquestions about. Right? And it's
one part of the story ofcomposting. Right?
Gemini Bhalsod (07:31):
Yeah, and if you're buying commercial
compost, many of thosecommercial compost facilities,
they will have a compostcharacteristics test, that you
can take a look at. And so thatmight not include things like
heavy metals or contamination,but many times it does, and so
if you're concerned about thatwhen you're buying compost from
(07:54):
a facility, definitely ask for,some of that compost testing to
take a look at.
Abigail Garofalo (08:00):
Yeah. I love that. If I always ask always ask
questions, it's okay. You'rebuying that product. You can ask
those questions, and if theydon't give you answers, like,
you ask more questions. Right?Like so. Awesome. Well so going
back to the beginning process ofcomposting, what materials can
be composted, and what should beavoided?
Sue Gasper (08:21):
Yeah. So I can I can take a stab at that one. So for
people that are composting athome, you know, with a bin
outside, unless you're activelymanaging that compost pile to
make sure that it gets up totemperatures of a 140 degrees
Fahrenheit for 3 days at a timeto kill pathogens and weeds weed
(08:45):
seeds, you should really avoidcomposting weeds and diseased
plant materials. Although, for,like, those home composters,
like meat, bones, oils, cheeses,dairy, should probably not go
into your compost pile becausethey have the potential of
(09:06):
attracting rodents, which nobodywants at their home compost
pile. And so those arecompostable, but they're better
done on a commercial scale.
Gemini Bhalsod (09:17):
Yeah. Along with that, also put pet waste in that
bucket of something that'sbetter to be done on the
professional or commercialscale. We want to leave that, to
the professionals because wewanna minimize pathogens, and
you're likely not gonna be ableto do that on the home
composting scale.
Abigail Garofalo (09:38):
Yeah. There are definitely those different
scales of what's allowed. Right?Like, because even if you're
vermicomposting, which is worms,there are even some, like, plant
materials that you might notwanna put in there or something
because you're dealing with,like, that animal who might not
react well to that, like, pHchange or that certain product
or something. So it reallydepends on what you're doing.
(09:59):
So, again, inform yourself onhow the compost is, decomposing.
Really important.
Erin Garrett (10:05):
So after talking about things that should go in
and things that shouldn't gointo the compost, I think we can
guess some common challengesthat people face. But what are
some of those challenges thatpeople could expect when getting
started with composting? I'mparticularly interested in this
question because I just startedcomposting this year. And what
can we do, myself included, toovercome these challenges?
Abigail Garofalo (10:29):
Yeah. I may have a question or two about my
specific bin, but it's fine.
Gemini Bhalsod (10:37):
Yes. Well, no problem. We can help
troubleshoot however we can. Youknow, one of the most important
things for getting your outdoorcompost bin right is really that
brown to green ratio. Themicrobes depend on that, and so
you wanna aim for about 2 partsof browns per one part of green
(10:58):
per by volume. And that is thebest way to kind of estimate on
a small scale that microbialdiet. Another thing that I
really see
Abigail Garofalo (11:09):
Hold on, Gemini. Tell me more about
browns versus greens. What is abrown? What is a green? How
does, like, what how do Idistinguish between that?
Gemini Bhalsod (11:19):
Browns are materials that are compostable
that are carbon rich, andthey're not always brown. We we
call them browns because it'seasier. And then on the flip
side, greens are materials thatare often green, but they are
nitrogen rich. And so microbesreally need a balance of carbon
(11:39):
and nitrogen, and so we estimatethat by giving them a diet of
those browns and those greens.
Abigail Garofalo (11:46):
Okay. So rapid fire. I'm gonna ask, what I put
in my compost bin, and you'regonna tell me if it's brown or
green. Ready?
Sue Gasper (11:53):
Love it. K.
Abigail Garofalo (11:55):
Newspaper.
Sue Gasper (11:56):
Brown.
Gemini Bhalsod (11:57):
Brown.
Abigail Garofalo (11:58):
Amazing. Leftover bottom of my lettuce,
right, that I don't eat?
Sue Gasper (12:02):
Green.
Abigail Garofalo (12:04):
Coffee grinds.
Gemini Bhalsod (12:05):
Green.
Abigail Garofalo (12:07):
Oh. Tricky. Yeah. That's a tricky one
because it looks brown.
Sue Gasper (12:12):
Mhmm. Exactly.
Abigail Garofalo (12:14):
Yeah. Now my leaves in the fall.
Sue Gasper (12:18):
Browns.
Abigail Garofalo (12:20):
Okay. So you kinda start to see a pattern
here. Right? Like, if it's deadalready, it's probably a brown.
It's dried out a little bit.Interesting. It's a little more
moist. Okay. Cool. I just wantedto kinda check-in about that.
Sue Gasper (12:34):
One thing that people that are doing
composting, like outsidecomposting in a bin, not having
enough browns stockpiled isoften something that's hard to
deal with. Like, for the springcomes, the summer, you wanna
compost. You have all this greenmatter to compost, but you're
(12:57):
short on browns. So somethingthat we always recommend is,
like, save your browns in thefall in a secure container, you
know, so that they can be dryand preserved until you need
them in the spring summer. Sosaving those those dead tree
leaves, that's a great thing todo.
Erin Garrett (13:18):
That was my problem. So Yeah. Except for
Abigail Garofalo (13:21):
You're like, I'm out of browns.
Erin Garrett (13:23):
I am. I've got a little bit left in one spot,
but, that is my that is my mainstruggle. So I was like, what am
I gonna do? That I mean, thatwas my guess is save up my
leaves, but that's good to goodto hear.
Sue Gasper (13:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you can still add to
your pile during the summer, butit's just not gonna go as fast.
And so in the fall, when you doget those leaves and you start,
it'll probably really startcooking and heating up and
decomposing more rapidly becauseyou're striking that that proper
balance of browns and greensthat the microbes want. But
(13:57):
another important thing aboutyour ingredients is chopping
them up to maximize the surfacearea so the bacteria work on the
surface of things. So bychopping things up into, like,
about 1 inch diameter pieces,you're giving the bacteria
(14:18):
plenty of surface area to workon. So putting in really big
things are gonna take a longtime to decompose just because
there's less surface areaexposed for the bacteria to
chomp away.
Abigail Garofalo (14:34):
Now are there other problems with, like, maybe
putting in my whole banana peelversus, like, chopping it up?
Does that cause other issuesbeyond it just takes forever to
decompose?
Sue Gasper: Having really big pieces can (14:49):
undefined
lead to not enough air gettingin there, getting compacted, and
then it goes anaerobic, so itstarts decomposing in the
absence of oxygen, and that cangenerate a lot of bad smells and
be kinda slimy and nasty. Andthat's the kind of stuff that
gives composting a bad rap.
Abigail Garofalo (15:12):
Are there any other challenges that people
face when it comes tocomposting? We talked about, you
know, putting in the rightproducts, putting in the right,
ratios of things. What else arewe looking at here with
challenges?
Sue Gasper (15:23):
I mean, in Cook County, rodents are a big
concern, so maybe that's less ofa concern if you're in a rural
area, but there's mice and stufftoo. So really trying to avoid
issues with rodents by usingmaybe an elevated system like a
tumbler or a composter with,like, a rodent proof base. So
(15:46):
having, like, a really solidbase that's hard for rodents to
chew through to get into thecompost pile is important. You
know, when it gets cooler out,they wanna be warm, and the
compost pile is a great sourceof heat for them. So then also
turning your pile often to avoidthose places where they might
(16:09):
want to nest.
Gemini Bhalsod (16:11):
Yeah, another thing you can and should be
doing for rodents as well is,capping your compost pile with a
thick layer of browns. And soyou have those browns and greens
in the middle mixing andworking, but if you cap it, with
your browns, then, the greensaren't as exposed, and that's
usually the food, that's notexposed and readily available
(16:35):
for rodents. Yeah. I think areally another big thing that I
wanted to touch on is justunderestimating the time and
energy required to activelymanage a pile. You know, we
really wanna encourage people tochoose a system that works for
them, and hot compostingrequires turning, watering,
management, checking in on it ona regular basis to help reach
(16:59):
those hot temperatures, and so,you know, really being aware of
that and planning for that, timeand energy that it needs.
Abigail Garofalo (17:07):
That's a really good point. I'm all about
solutions that work for theperson's life and their own
personal philosophies on howthey manage things. Again, I'll
say I feel like I say it everyepisode. I'm a lazy gardener.
You know, the the least amountof management I can do is
possible. For me, like, alittle, like, tumbling
composting bin really works wellfor my family because it's easy.
(17:31):
I can add to it. I don't haveto, like, do a lot of labor to
turn it, and it's also kinda funfor my kids to turn it. They
really like that aspect as well.So, you know, we're seeing
composting. We've talked aboutit kind of on an individual
scale and choosing what worksfor you. What are some, ways
that communities can promote andsupport composting?
Gemini Bhalsod (17:50):
Yeah. Local folks can support composting
efforts by learning aboutcomposting, just really even
understanding what it is, whatit's not, the different ways to
compost and manage food scrapscan, give folks some insight
into the whole, like, compostingsystem and ecosystem beyond
their backyard, because it'slikely that their community
(18:14):
garden might have a compostingeffort, or maybe their city has
a food drop off or something. Soreally just learning about
composting will help, promotecomposting, I believe, also as
an educator. It's folks can alsolook up composting events near
them. A lot of places haveevents like pumpkin smashes, for
(18:37):
example, in the fall to helpdivert pumpkins from landfills
after Halloween. And so gettinginvolved, will be at one of
those events, could be a greatway to learn as well. And just
really staying up to date on anycomposting related legislations.
Maybe there's something thatpeople are passionate about and
(18:58):
they wanna advocate for it.
Erin Garrett (19:00):
Awesome. Are there any, policies or regulations
that are out there or that arein the works that you know of
that help encourage or supportcomposting?
Sue Gasper (19:11):
Yeah. So it's kind of exciting in Chicago recently.
Within the last 6 months,they've adopted a food scrap
drop off program through theDepartment of Streets and
Sanitation. And so I believethat right now, throughout the
city, there are 17 sites whereresidents can sign up on email,
(19:34):
and it's it's a free program.And we can take our food scraps
and drop them off into securebins from, like, 7 AM to 7 PM.
And so it's it's really I'vebeen participating in it, and
it's really a nice way for me.Like, I don't compost outside
(19:54):
because of the rat issue livingin Chicago, and I do
vermicomposting inside, but it'sreally nice to have just a bin
on my counter that we add ourfood scraps to and just drive it
over and drop it off.
So things like that are reallygood. To find efforts locally
(20:21):
near other municipalities, theIllinois Food Scrap and
Composting Coalition has a listof compost related legislation
in Illinois. It may or may notinclude, like, local ordinance,
municipal guidelines, but it'salways a good thing to check
your local, you know,check your municipality and see
(20:44):
what their what their policiesand regulations are on
composting. For example, like,in 2015, the Chicago City
Council approved a compostingordinance allowing community
gardens and urban farms tocompost different types of
organic materials, includingthose accepted from off-site.
(21:07):
And so, looking for regulationslike that, really, you know,
it's not it I think it's reallyfor communities. It's not
practical to expect everyone tocompost their own waste. So
having those ways for people todrop off, to have it composted
(21:29):
is really important.
Abigail Garofalo (21:32):
Oh, that's really interesting. So, like,
the community garden kind ofserves as a composting hub
beyond just, like, producingfood in that community. It's
also taking food waste and, fromother people who are in local
and having food scraps in theirhouse. So they're kind of a
collection center, essentially.
Sue Gasper (21:51):
Can be. Yeah.
Abigail Garofalo (21:53):
Interesting. I know there was there's a
project, that's an ex it'sextension project that's related
to it's, like, on a hospitalgrounds, and it's a community
garden, and they are taking,like, so many buckets of food
scraps from that hospital a dayand composting it. I'll have to
look it up and put it in theshow notes later to make sure
(22:15):
I'm I'm accurately describingit, but it was really it's a
really interesting way to seehow we can, kind of okay. The
hospital doesn't wanna kindahave the infrastructure kinda
thing, but they have, like, a aneighboring project that they
can pull from that and test itout on this small scale to see
if it is something that couldwork, which is really
interesting.
So, I know I live in a communitywhere they do have a composting
(22:41):
program where when when theycollect the yard scraps, they
also will accept all kind of,composting materials, including
meat and fats and things likethat. And so the like, that's a
way that that on a a communitylevel, like, on a legislative
village level, they arecollecting all and diverting
food waste from their theirwaste facilities. So which I
(23:04):
think is pretty cool and, aninteresting way to approach the
problem as well of food wasteis, like yeah. Like you said, it
can't just be individuals.That's not practical for
everybody. Can we take it andwith the infrastructure that
exists? You know, we have peoplepicking up yard scraps anyways.
Let's just add to it. So Yeah.You know, you all are from
Chicago, and I'm in Cook County.A lot of the times we hear when
(23:27):
composting, it's about, like,limited space. Right? I don't
have a ton of space to compost.What are some things that urban
residents or even just peoplewith limited space in general?
Maybe they're not in an urbanenvironment. They're in an
apartment complex. They're in ajust a smaller space. What can
we do to still participate incomposting?
Gemini Bhalsod (23:45):
Yeah. If you don't have space for a hot
composting pile in yourbackyard, there's a lot of
compost like systems out therethat are better suited for a
small space or indoors even. So,for example, like, worm
composting, like you mentionedearlier, Abigail, is a compost
like system to help, you know,use up those food scraps and
(24:08):
give it to the worms, and thenthat vermicompost at the end can
also be used as a soilamendment. You can also there's
also systems like bokashi, thatpeople can use to process their
food scraps. I live in a condoin Chicago and I utilize a food
scrap pickup service, so it's aprivate service that, you know,
(24:30):
we have a tote in our back alleythat has a lock, and I drop off
my food scraps in there, anddifferent folks in my
neighborhood can also subscribeto that bin and drop off their
food scraps as well. And sousing those pick up or drop off
services can be a feasibleoption as well.
Erin Garrett (24:49):
So what can we do to kind of scale all of these
efforts to have a greater impactglobally? Right? We talk a lot
about individual actions that wecan take. We did get to the
community level and talked aboutsome different examples, but
what can we do to continuescaling scaling composting up?
Sue Gasper (25:07):
Yeah. In addition to the community level scaling, I
think that's in terms ofcomposting waste, getting more
communities composting is theway to go. But one thing that we
do need to remember is just tokind of try to minimize our food
(25:28):
waste in the first place. Like,you know, we we tend to
especially in the US, we have alot of lot of food that gets
wasted. And so really justtrying to really be conscious of
how much we're buying and usingand eliminating that food waste
from the get go so thatcomposting is, like, not a
(25:53):
primary solution to food waste,but, like, what we can do with
the little bit of food wastethat's left over. So really
trying to minimize our foodwaste instead is is something
that we we can all be betterabout.
Erin Garrett (26:09):
How much of our food doesn't actually even make
it to our plate? Right? Or,like, some produce, like, if it
has a bruise on one side, it'sgonna sit at the grocery store
and then it just, like, goes. Sobeing okay with more, like,
imperfect produce. And I knowfor myself since really getting
into starting my vegetablegarden and it actually being
successful this year, like, forthe first time, it is amazing
(26:31):
how I will, like, have so muchfood. I'm like, we have to eat
it all before it goes badbecause I put all this work into
it. I'm so much more invested innot wasting this food versus
like getting it from the grocerystore. And I'm like, well, why?
I should be doing that theretoo. So I was just like having a
different perspective for me.Lately, I've been just a lot
(26:52):
more conscious of food waste andseeing what we're taking out to
the compost versus putting it inthe garbage. I'm like, oh my
gosh. There's so I have so muchgreen. There's so many greens
and my compost can be so manyvegetables, and it's, like,
constantly vegetables andfruits, and there's so much of
just, like, the ends that youchop. But, yeah, when something
goes bad in the fridge and thenyou have to toss it, you know,
(27:14):
making sure, like you said,buying the right amount and then
prioritizing eating it, not,like, bringing home your bag of
lettuce that sits in the fridgeevery week and then goes into
the garbage and then is replacedby another bag. Right? That
definitely is a big piece of it.
Abigail Garofalo (27:28):
Yeah. And the the thoughtfulness behind all of
that. Right? Like, it's, I'veseen lots of people try
solutions of, like, how can Imake my vegetables more visible
in my fridge? Like, the, youknow, that you have, like, the
typical drawers where vegetablesgo in your fridge, and I've seen
people, like, replace and putthe condiments in those drawers
and then put the vegetables inthe doors. So that way it's like
(27:49):
they see them every time theyopen it, because how many times
have you thrown a, you know, acarton of strawberries in your
fridge and just they got moldybefore you even realized they
were there. Right? So just kindof I think a thoughtfulness is
so important to, like, what dowe eat? When do we eat it? How
often do I eat it? Do I need tobuy it? Maybe, okay. I'm gonna
(28:10):
make this dish that uses all ofthese veggies. My recent
favorite hack I found is, Ihave, like, produce and in my
fridge, and I'm like, it needsto be eaten, so I'll I'll type
into AI, like chat AI, and belike, I have these four things
that need to be eaten. What dishcan I make with it?
Sue Gasper (28:30):
Oh, I love that.
Abigail Garofalo (28:32):
So, like, just different there's, like,
different innovative solutionsto figuring out why we are
wasting food. Right? Some ofit's on a larger scale of like,
a cultural scale of, like, it'sjust funny shaped, but we can
still eat it. Some of it's likea just a systematic in your
home. You just don't realize.I'm a really forgetful person. I
seriously just forget that thereare certain things in my fridge
(28:53):
all the time. And so having thatkind of shift in in your in your
fridge even just might behelpful. So,
Sue Gasper (29:02):
Like, I guess I would drive home, like, finding
what works best for you. Like,what and and it may not be
composting yourself. It may be,you know, go bringing your food
scraps to a drop off-site. Itmay be having a pickup service.
It may be, you know, like beingan advocate for composting
(29:24):
legislation, and telling otherpeople what you've learned about
composting, but really figuringout what fits your interest,
abilities, and budget, I think,is important to stress.
Abigail Garofalo (29:38):
I think, like, vermicomposting is a good
example because there's a lot ofick factor. Like, some people
are like, I don't want worms inmy house. That was a whole thing
with my family for, like, acouple of years, and I was like,
the worms are fine. Leave themalone. And so, yeah, that's,
like, about what works for you.And if you're someone who, like,
wants to take that as kind of alearning opportunity. When I had
(30:00):
my, compost bin, I was, like,sharing a lot on, like, my
social media pages. I was, like,I added cantaloupe and now
there's, like, little flieseverywhere. Like, it really
accelerated that process andcaused certain reactions to
occur and and, kinda took it as,like, a science. And it is a
science.
Right? Like, I'm askingquestions, and I'm I'm trying
(30:22):
out if something works, and thenI'm figuring out why and and
things like that. And sothinking about it in that way,
and I also say, like, joining acommunity, there's so many,
like, little groups on Facebookor, like, people who are special
interested in those things to,like, troubleshoot with because
there is a lot oftroubleshooting. It's it's with
composting, and it's like, oh,it did this work. Why didn't it
(30:43):
work? Does anybody know why? Hasanyone faced this problem
before? What did you do toaddress it? And talking to your
local Extension staff and askingthem those questions finding
your community of people thatcan help support you in that
journey as well because you'renot in it alone. There's us you
know, we have, you know, thesetwo wonderful people on our
podcast who are exploring this,not just because it is a really
(31:07):
wonderful solution to food wasteand greenhouse gas emissions
when it comes to that foodwaste, but also because there is
an interest by communities toaddress it in this way. And so I
think that's a really great wayto just kind of know you're not
on this journey alone. Trycomposting and find people who
like it too.
Sue Gasper (31:26):
Well, I like what you said about it's an
experiment. You know? Like, youtry things, maybe it doesn't
work. You try to figure out whyand think about it critically. I
love it.
Abigail Garofalo (31:38):
Well, Sue and Gemini, thank you so much for
sharing your knowledge oncomposting. Now we're going to
finish today's episode witheveryday observations where we
highlight the mundane and normalof our environment that is
actually really interesting.Erin, I'm gonna call on you to
go first. What's your everydayobservation this week?
Erin Garrett (31:58):
Alright. Well, I've kind of talked about it a
little bit, but for me, thispast year has been, we've been
in a new house, so we've beenable to finally put in the vet,
start putting in vegetablegarden of my dreams. This is
phase 1. It will grow. Puttingthat in, starting the compost,
and so we're just finallystarting to see, like, the
circle of the system, right,which is really exciting to be
(32:19):
able to grow our own food andthen, you know, food waste,
scraps go into the compost. Andthen eventually because I have I
need to work on my ratio as nowI know, which I already knew in
the back of my head, but it'sbeen confirmed. Oh, I need more
browns. Eventually, right, thenbeing able to take that compost
and put it back into the garden,will be really, really exciting
(32:39):
for me. So it's just been funseeing I've never had a
successful vegetable gardenbefore because I didn't have a
good spot. So if you all livedclose to me, I would give you
all of the cucumbers that I havebecause I am overwhelmed, but
it's still it's a good problem.So, it's been it's been fun just
to kinda see the whole system asit as it's been working.
Abigail Garofalo (33:00):
Well, that's awesome. I would say make
cucumber salad, but you'vealready probably
Erin Garrett (33:04):
Every day.
Abigail Garofalo (33:04):
Cucumber dishes.
Erin Garrett (33:05):
Every night. Every night. I just came back, yeah,
from from vacation, and it's Ipicked all the cucumbers before
I left and gave them away. Andthere it's they're all there's a
ton. There's a lot.
Abigail Garofalo (33:18):
And there's more, and you've already run out
of people. They're like, no morecucumbers from you. No more. Run
into Erin on the street. She'llgive me a cucumber kind of
person.
Erin Garrett (33:27):
There's gonna be a stand outside my house pretty
soon that's, like, free. Pleasetake.
Abigail Garofalo (33:33):
Not a bad idea. I'd want to finish. So
alright, Sue. What is youreveryday observation?
Sue Gasper (33:41):
So this past week, I had my husband asking me, like,
oh, I've seen these, like,really huge, like, slow moving
wasps. Like, what the heck arethey? And then our neighbor,
just like 2 days ago, had thishuge mound in his yard that
(34:03):
looked like a massive anthill,and we figured out that they
were the cicada killer wasps. Sothat was really cool.
Abigail Garofalo (34:13):
Yeah. Largest wasps in Illinois.
Sue Gasper (34:16):
Yeah.
Abigail Garofalo (34:17):
Oh, they're huge and alarming, but they're
really not interested in people.Like.
Sue Gasper (34:23):
Yeah, not at all. So that was pretty exciting. It was
kind of funny how, like, myhusband noticed them, and then
the neighbor was asking. Hethought maybe he had voles or
something in his yard, and thenhe got really excited because he
saw one going in and out, and,yeah, it was really cool.
Abigail Garofalo (34:42):
Oh. Yeah. I'm, like, kind of keeping note too
if you see it next year because,like, we're in that dog day
cicada period right now.
Sue Gasper (34:50):
Yeah.
Abigail Garofalo (34:51):
Alright, Gemini.
Gemini Bhalsod (34:53):
So at the beginning of July, I was
supposed to go on this campingtrip in Wisconsin. It got rained
out, and so I pivoted. And, acouple weeks ago, I was on an
all day canoeing trip on theKankakee River. It was
beautiful. The water was, clearand lovely, and we saw an eagle
(35:17):
perched up in kind of a halfdead tree on the bank of the
river, and it was, like, flyingand swooping around the river.
It got quite low, while we werewhile we were canoeing just
right along it for a littlewhile, and it's always so
amazing to, you know, see aneagle that close. And I'm very
(35:39):
infamously, like, not the best,like, wildlife observation
person as, like, a plant person,gardener, horticulturalist. And
so every time I have a cool birdor wildlife experience, it
really sticks with me because Idon't have very many.
Abigail Garofalo (36:00):
I feel like an eagle sighting is really special
too. Like, it's just really kindof and they're so distinct
looking when you see, like, theones that that do have the like,
the older adults that do have,like, the white head if they're
not juveniles, and it's yeah.That's really it's they sticks
with you. It's a good way to sayit. So
Gemini Bhalsod (36:18):
Yeah. It's really it is also possible there
was a juvenile with the adult aswell, but, like, I would not be
the person to be able to tellyou that, because I just don't
know.
Abigail Garofalo (36:30):
Very cool.
Erin Garrett (36:31):
Alright, Abigail. You're up.
Abigail Garofalo (36:33):
Okay. So I, have been, like, going around,
Cook County lately, and I washeaded back from, like, a field
day. And I was like, why don'tyou know, I have some time
today. Why don't I stop by, youknow, a local nature preserve
just to kinda see what's goingon there? And I stopped by
Indian Boundary Prairie, andit's like this really random
(36:54):
Illinois Nature Preserve.
It like, you you don't look likeyou should be able to walk in,
but you, like the doors open,and you're like and it's gated,
and you can see, like, theexpressway from, you know, one
side. And it's it's very odd theway it's surrounded, but I was
just so excited to see itbecause it's really good. We're
recording this in July, so thisit's really good, like, flower
(37:16):
season right now to see flowersin the prairie. And so it was
exciting because I got to seelots of flowers that were also
blooming in my yard, because Ihave a lot of native natives
growing in my yard, so I got tosee butterfly weed. There was,
like, a little, like, orangespurt of it, and I have, wild
indigo, wild white indigo, andso I got to see that, Culver's
(37:38):
root and just like a lot ofother plants that I was like, oh
my gosh. That grows in my yard.That grows in my yard. And then
to kinda see how it grows alittle differently with all of
that root competition in anative prairie was just really
interesting to think about. Youknow, like, that one's not
flopping even though it rainedyesterday. Mine is.
And so, to kind of think abouthow could I apply that to my
(38:00):
yard and and all of that, it wasjust really, really cool. And
then I also got to see leadplant, which I don't have in my
yard, and I just love leadplant. I think it's so pretty
and just different. And so itwas just it was really neat and
really exciting, and I love achance to go kinda do just a I
got it to only be there for,like, 20 minutes because I had
to kinda get going, but I didn'thave to, like, go into it very
(38:22):
far to see some really coolstuff, and it was neat. So
alright.
Well, thanks you two for sharingyour everyday observations and
Erin as well and, just kind ofbeing with us to chat about
composting as a solution, forone of the solutions for climate
change. It's a grand challengethat we're facing, and so
different ways to approach itand different ways to talk about
(38:43):
it is is just really exciting toexplore all of that. And, well,
this has been another episode ofthe Everyday Environment
podcast. Check out next week forour last episode of the season
where we talk to Duane Friendabout climate action.
(39:04):
This podcast is a University ofIllinois Extension production,
hosted and edited by AbigailGarofalo, Erin Garrett, and Amy
Lefringhouse.
Matt Wiley (39:15):
University of Illinois Extension.
Welcome to another episode of the Everyday
Environment podcast, where weexplore the environment we see
every day. I'm your host,Abigail Garofalo.
Erin Garrett (00:14):
And I'm your cohost, Erin Garrett.
Abigail Garofalo (00:16):
And today, we are joined by Sue Gasper and
Gemini Bhalsod, our, Cook Countyeducators in STEM and
horticulture respectively tochat about composting and all
about, you know, composting andhow climate change has to do
with that. So welcome, you two.
Gemini Bhalsod (00:35):
Welcome. Thanks for having us.
Sue Gasper (00:37):
Yeah. Thank you.
Abigail Garofalo (00:39):
Yeah. And, again, we're talking about
climate change this season, sowe're really trying to figure
out what are some solutions,what are ways that we're
addressing it, how are thingsimpacted by climate change. And
so we're really excited toaddress this kind of food waste
sector of climate change and howwe're addressing food waste and
and, greenhouse gas releasing.And so let's just start with the
(01:00):
basics. Can you explain to uswhat composting is and and how
it works?
Sue Gasper (01:06):
Yeah. So composting is really the controlled,
aerobic, biologicaldecomposition of organic matter
into a stable product calledcompost. So it's basically the
same process as naturaldecomposition, except it's
enhanced and accelerated bymixing organic waste with other
(01:28):
ingredients to optimizemicrobial growth.
Gemini Bhalsod (01:33):
Yeah. So really with composting, our job as
humans is to just manage thecomposting environment because
we wanna optimize microbialgrowth. Those microbes are doing
that decomposition work.
Abigail Garofalo (01:46):
So we're again, lessons from nature. One
of my favorite things to talkabout is how can we just find
nature based solutions and makelife work just a little bit
easier for us because nature'sgot it going on already. So
that's great.
Erin Garrett (01:58):
So what are some of the main benefits of
composting, for our environment,but also for us, for the
everyday person?
Sue Gasper (02:08):
Yeah. So a major benefit to the environment of
composting is the removal oforganic waste from landfills.
And when we say organic, we'retalking about stuff that was
once living. And so when thatgoes into a landfill, it
undergoes microbialdecomposition but in the absence
(02:28):
of oxygen. So that's calledanaerobic decomposition. And
that mode of decompositiongenerates a gas called methane
that's a really potentgreenhouse gas. So composting
organic waste, instead ofputting it in the landfill,
means that there will be lessmethane generated, and less
(02:49):
methane in the atmosphere meansless energy trapped in the
atmosphere and less globalwarming.
Abigail Garofalo (02:56):
Okay. Yeah. So lots of buzzwords when it comes
to climate change, things thatwe wanna know. Right? So we got
methane. We got, greenhousegases released in the
atmosphere, global warming. Soworse what you're saying is,
like, the that methane reallyaccelerates that kind of
greenhouse gas effect. Right? Itkind of that
Sue Gasper (03:15):
Exactly.
Abigail Garofalo (03:17):
Yeah, and then that's what's accelerating our
changing climate or the resultsof our changing climate is
global warming. Right? So
Sue Gasper (03:25):
I know, like, Gemini and I looked up some EPA stats
about Illinois, and Illinoislandfills receive typically,
like, almost 20,000,000 tons ofwaste per year. And it's kind of
astounding. Like, 20 nearly 21%of that is food scraps. So we
(03:46):
have a lot of food scraps goinginto landfills that could be
composted.
Abigail Garofalo (03:51):
That's so I think about, so I compost in my
house, and when I go visit,like, my parents who don't
compost, I'm always like, thisjust the trash goes in the like,
you you forget how when itbecomes normal in your house,
you forget, like, how muchactually people put in the trash
when they don't compost becauseit's like a whole other sector
of your trash can that isn't,doesn't have to be in there.
(04:13):
That's crazy.
Gemini Bhalsod (04:14):
I was just gonna say that there are some other
benefits outside of just the theprocess of composting if you
wanted to chat about compostusage and how we can use some of
those end products to benefitpeople in the environment as
well.
Abigail Garofalo (04:30):
Yeah. I absolutely wanna hear those
things. I think we all wannahear that. Right?
Gemini Bhalsod (04:35):
So, obviously, at the end of the composting
process, you have this thingcalled compost, and you can do a
lot of stuff with it. You cancreate you know, you're creating
your own soil amendment for yourhome or for your local community
garden or community environment.And that compost when put on
your soil does a lot of goodthings for it. Right? It slowly
(04:55):
releases nutrients over time.It's good for plants. It also
can increase soil water holdingcapacity, so decreases runoff
and controls erosion on a reallylarge scale. Compost has been
used on the banks of, like,river or water, sloped banks to
help control that runoff anderosion. But it is important to
(05:20):
be cautious about a couplethings, you know, compost is
great, but it's not just a magicthing that will fix all of our
soil problems. Right? It'sreally important to understand
your application and usage ratesbecause over application of
compost can really lead tonutrient runoff and downstream
effects that we're unaware of.It can also it's really
(05:43):
important to also avoidcontaminated feedstocks,
especially if you wanna use thatcompost, around growing food and
growing vegetables.
Abigail Garofalo (05:53):
Tell me more about, like, this contaminating
feedstocks.
Gemini Bhalsod (05:56):
Yeah. So this is a part of, something that we are
learning a lot more about, Andso there has been a lot of
concern about contaminatedcompost with, things like PFAS
and those forever chemicals.And, you know, we're still
learning about the science ofwhat that how that works in the
(06:18):
environment. Right? And sothere's a lot of unknowns there,
but we know that, like,composting can degrade certain
chemicals, but certainchemicals, like, do not get
broken down in the compostingprocess. And so if you're
starting with a contaminatedfeedstock and you're composting
it, contamination might still bein your end product there.
Abigail Garofalo (06:41):
Yeah. Not everything decomposes the same,
and there are certain, chemicalsand and, products that may not
decompose completely and stickaround. And, what I love about
this podcast is it's an evergrowing, understanding of, like,
how can we learn more? Maybe thelesson is, like, we're always
(07:03):
try like, inform yourself, tryand figure out what's going on,
and asking those questions isreally important. And so the
answer that is unsatisfying,right, is, like, we don't know.
It's still a growing body ofresearch. That data is still not
there quite yet, and we're allworking on learning more about
it. And so I think it'ssomething important to know and
(07:24):
learn about and kind of askquestions about. Right? And it's
one part of the story ofcomposting. Right?
Gemini Bhalsod (07:31):
Yeah, and if you're buying commercial
compost, many of thosecommercial compost facilities,
they will have a compostcharacteristics test, that you
can take a look at. And so thatmight not include things like
heavy metals or contamination,but many times it does, and so
if you're concerned about thatwhen you're buying compost from
(07:54):
a facility, definitely ask for,some of that compost testing to
take a look at.
Abigail Garofalo (08:00):
Yeah. I love that. If I always ask always ask
questions, it's okay. You'rebuying that product. You can ask
those questions, and if theydon't give you answers, like,
you ask more questions. Right?Like so. Awesome. Well so going
back to the beginning process ofcomposting, what materials can
be composted, and what should beavoided?
Sue Gasper (08:21):
Yeah. So I can I can take a stab at that one. So for
people that are composting athome, you know, with a bin
outside, unless you're activelymanaging that compost pile to
make sure that it gets up totemperatures of a 140 degrees
Fahrenheit for 3 days at a timeto kill pathogens and weeds weed
(08:45):
seeds, you should really avoidcomposting weeds and diseased
plant materials. Although, for,like, those home composters,
like meat, bones, oils, cheeses,dairy, should probably not go
into your compost pile becausethey have the potential of
(09:06):
attracting rodents, which nobodywants at their home compost
pile. And so those arecompostable, but they're better
done on a commercial scale.
Gemini Bhalsod (09:17):
Yeah. Along with that, also put pet waste in that
bucket of something that'sbetter to be done on the
professional or commercialscale. We want to leave that, to
the professionals because wewanna minimize pathogens, and
you're likely not gonna be ableto do that on the home
composting scale.
Abigail Garofalo (09:38):
Yeah. There are definitely those different
scales of what's allowed. Right?Like, because even if you're
vermicomposting, which is worms,there are even some, like, plant
materials that you might notwanna put in there or something
because you're dealing with,like, that animal who might not
react well to that, like, pHchange or that certain product
or something. So it reallydepends on what you're doing.
(09:59):
So, again, inform yourself onhow the compost is, decomposing.
Really important.
Erin Garrett (10:05):
So after talking about things that should go in
and things that shouldn't gointo the compost, I think we can
guess some common challengesthat people face. But what are
some of those challenges thatpeople could expect when getting
started with composting? I'mparticularly interested in this
question because I just startedcomposting this year. And what
can we do, myself included, toovercome these challenges?
Abigail Garofalo (10:29):
Yeah. I may have a question or two about my
specific bin, but it's fine.
Gemini Bhalsod (10:37):
Yes. Well, no problem. We can help
troubleshoot however we can. Youknow, one of the most important
things for getting your outdoorcompost bin right is really that
brown to green ratio. Themicrobes depend on that, and so
you wanna aim for about 2 partsof browns per one part of green
(10:58):
per by volume. And that is thebest way to kind of estimate on
a small scale that microbialdiet. Another thing that I
really see
Abigail Garofalo (11:09):
Hold on, Gemini. Tell me more about
browns versus greens. What is abrown? What is a green? How
does, like, what how do Idistinguish between that?
Gemini Bhalsod (11:19):
Browns are materials that are compostable
that are carbon rich, andthey're not always brown. We we
call them browns because it'seasier. And then on the flip
side, greens are materials thatare often green, but they are
nitrogen rich. And so microbesreally need a balance of carbon
(11:39):
and nitrogen, and so we estimatethat by giving them a diet of
those browns and those greens.
Abigail Garofalo (11:46):
Okay. So rapid fire. I'm gonna ask, what I put
in my compost bin, and you'regonna tell me if it's brown or
green. Ready?
Sue Gasper (11:53):
Love it. K.
Abigail Garofalo (11:55):
Newspaper.
Sue Gasper (11:56):
Brown.
Gemini Bhalsod (11:57):
Brown.
Abigail Garofalo (11:58):
Amazing. Leftover bottom of my lettuce,
right, that I don't eat?
Sue Gasper (12:02):
Green.
Abigail Garofalo (12:04):
Coffee grinds.
Gemini Bhalsod (12:05):
Green.
Abigail Garofalo (12:07):
Oh. Tricky. Yeah. That's a tricky one
because it looks brown.
Sue Gasper (12:12):
Mhmm. Exactly.
Abigail Garofalo (12:14):
Yeah. Now my leaves in the fall.
Sue Gasper (12:18):
Browns.
Abigail Garofalo (12:20):
Okay. So you kinda start to see a pattern
here. Right? Like, if it's deadalready, it's probably a brown.
It's dried out a little bit.Interesting. It's a little more
moist. Okay. Cool. I just wantedto kinda check-in about that.
Sue Gasper (12:34):
One thing that people that are doing
composting, like outsidecomposting in a bin, not having
enough browns stockpiled isoften something that's hard to
deal with. Like, for the springcomes, the summer, you wanna
compost. You have all this greenmatter to compost, but you're
(12:57):
short on browns. So somethingthat we always recommend is,
like, save your browns in thefall in a secure container, you
know, so that they can be dryand preserved until you need
them in the spring summer. Sosaving those those dead tree
leaves, that's a great thing todo.
Erin Garrett (13:18):
That was my problem. So Yeah. Except for
Abigail Garofalo (13:21):
You're like, I'm out of browns.
Erin Garrett (13:23):
I am. I've got a little bit left in one spot,
but, that is my that is my mainstruggle. So I was like, what am
I gonna do? That I mean, thatwas my guess is save up my
leaves, but that's good to goodto hear.
Sue Gasper (13:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you can still add to
your pile during the summer, butit's just not gonna go as fast.
And so in the fall, when you doget those leaves and you start,
it'll probably really startcooking and heating up and
decomposing more rapidly becauseyou're striking that that proper
balance of browns and greensthat the microbes want. But
(13:57):
another important thing aboutyour ingredients is chopping
them up to maximize the surfacearea so the bacteria work on the
surface of things. So bychopping things up into, like,
about 1 inch diameter pieces,you're giving the bacteria
(14:18):
plenty of surface area to workon. So putting in really big
things are gonna take a longtime to decompose just because
there's less surface areaexposed for the bacteria to
chomp away.
Abigail Garofalo (14:34):
Now are there other problems with, like, maybe
putting in my whole banana peelversus, like, chopping it up?
Does that cause other issuesbeyond it just takes forever to
decompose?
Sue Gasper: Having really big pieces can (14:49):
undefined
lead to not enough air gettingin there, getting compacted, and
then it goes anaerobic, so itstarts decomposing in the
absence of oxygen, and that cangenerate a lot of bad smells and
be kinda slimy and nasty. Andthat's the kind of stuff that
gives composting a bad rap.
Abigail Garofalo (15:12):
Are there any other challenges that people
face when it comes tocomposting? We talked about, you
know, putting in the rightproducts, putting in the right,
ratios of things. What else arewe looking at here with
challenges?
Sue Gasper (15:23):
I mean, in Cook County, rodents are a big
concern, so maybe that's less ofa concern if you're in a rural
area, but there's mice and stufftoo. So really trying to avoid
issues with rodents by usingmaybe an elevated system like a
tumbler or a composter with,like, a rodent proof base. So
(15:46):
having, like, a really solidbase that's hard for rodents to
chew through to get into thecompost pile is important. You
know, when it gets cooler out,they wanna be warm, and the
compost pile is a great sourceof heat for them. So then also
turning your pile often to avoidthose places where they might
(16:09):
want to nest.
Gemini Bhalsod (16:11):
Yeah, another thing you can and should be
doing for rodents as well is,capping your compost pile with a
thick layer of browns. And soyou have those browns and greens
in the middle mixing andworking, but if you cap it, with
your browns, then, the greensaren't as exposed, and that's
usually the food, that's notexposed and readily available
(16:35):
for rodents. Yeah. I think areally another big thing that I
wanted to touch on is justunderestimating the time and
energy required to activelymanage a pile. You know, we
really wanna encourage people tochoose a system that works for
them, and hot compostingrequires turning, watering,
management, checking in on it ona regular basis to help reach
(16:59):
those hot temperatures, and so,you know, really being aware of
that and planning for that, timeand energy that it needs.
Abigail Garofalo (17:07):
That's a really good point. I'm all about
solutions that work for theperson's life and their own
personal philosophies on howthey manage things. Again, I'll
say I feel like I say it everyepisode. I'm a lazy gardener.
You know, the the least amountof management I can do is
possible. For me, like, alittle, like, tumbling
composting bin really works wellfor my family because it's easy.
(17:31):
I can add to it. I don't haveto, like, do a lot of labor to
turn it, and it's also kinda funfor my kids to turn it. They
really like that aspect as well.So, you know, we're seeing
composting. We've talked aboutit kind of on an individual
scale and choosing what worksfor you. What are some, ways
that communities can promote andsupport composting?
Gemini Bhalsod (17:50):
Yeah. Local folks can support composting
efforts by learning aboutcomposting, just really even
understanding what it is, whatit's not, the different ways to
compost and manage food scrapscan, give folks some insight
into the whole, like, compostingsystem and ecosystem beyond
their backyard, because it'slikely that their community
(18:14):
garden might have a compostingeffort, or maybe their city has
a food drop off or something. Soreally just learning about
composting will help, promotecomposting, I believe, also as
an educator. It's folks can alsolook up composting events near
them. A lot of places haveevents like pumpkin smashes, for
(18:37):
example, in the fall to helpdivert pumpkins from landfills
after Halloween. And so gettinginvolved, will be at one of
those events, could be a greatway to learn as well. And just
really staying up to date on anycomposting related legislations.
Maybe there's something thatpeople are passionate about and
(18:58):
they wanna advocate for it.
Erin Garrett (19:00):
Awesome. Are there any, policies or regulations
that are out there or that arein the works that you know of
that help encourage or supportcomposting?
Sue Gasper (19:11):
Yeah. So it's kind of exciting in Chicago recently.
Within the last 6 months,they've adopted a food scrap
drop off program through theDepartment of Streets and
Sanitation. And so I believethat right now, throughout the
city, there are 17 sites whereresidents can sign up on email,
(19:34):
and it's it's a free program.And we can take our food scraps
and drop them off into securebins from, like, 7 AM to 7 PM.
And so it's it's really I'vebeen participating in it, and
it's really a nice way for me.Like, I don't compost outside
(19:54):
because of the rat issue livingin Chicago, and I do
vermicomposting inside, but it'sreally nice to have just a bin
on my counter that we add ourfood scraps to and just drive it
over and drop it off.
So things like that are reallygood. To find efforts locally
(20:21):
near other municipalities, theIllinois Food Scrap and
Composting Coalition has a listof compost related legislation
in Illinois. It may or may notinclude, like, local ordinance,
municipal guidelines, but it'salways a good thing to check
your local, you know,check your municipality and see
(20:44):
what their what their policiesand regulations are on
composting. For example, like,in 2015, the Chicago City
Council approved a compostingordinance allowing community
gardens and urban farms tocompost different types of
organic materials, includingthose accepted from off-site.
(21:07):
And so, looking for regulationslike that, really, you know,
it's not it I think it's reallyfor communities. It's not
practical to expect everyone tocompost their own waste. So
having those ways for people todrop off, to have it composted
(21:29):
is really important.
Abigail Garofalo (21:32):
Oh, that's really interesting. So, like,
the community garden kind ofserves as a composting hub
beyond just, like, producingfood in that community. It's
also taking food waste and, fromother people who are in local
and having food scraps in theirhouse. So they're kind of a
collection center, essentially.
Sue Gasper (21:51):
Can be. Yeah.
Abigail Garofalo (21:53):
Interesting. I know there was there's a
project, that's an ex it'sextension project that's related
to it's, like, on a hospitalgrounds, and it's a community
garden, and they are taking,like, so many buckets of food
scraps from that hospital a dayand composting it. I'll have to
look it up and put it in theshow notes later to make sure
(22:15):
I'm I'm accurately describingit, but it was really it's a
really interesting way to seehow we can, kind of okay. The
hospital doesn't wanna kindahave the infrastructure kinda
thing, but they have, like, a aneighboring project that they
can pull from that and test itout on this small scale to see
if it is something that couldwork, which is really
interesting.
So, I know I live in a communitywhere they do have a composting
(22:41):
program where when when theycollect the yard scraps, they
also will accept all kind of,composting materials, including
meat and fats and things likethat. And so the like, that's a
way that that on a a communitylevel, like, on a legislative
village level, they arecollecting all and diverting
food waste from their theirwaste facilities. So which I
(23:04):
think is pretty cool and, aninteresting way to approach the
problem as well of food wasteis, like yeah. Like you said, it
can't just be individuals.That's not practical for
everybody. Can we take it andwith the infrastructure that
exists? You know, we have peoplepicking up yard scraps anyways.
Let's just add to it. So Yeah.You know, you all are from
Chicago, and I'm in Cook County.A lot of the times we hear when
(23:27):
composting, it's about, like,limited space. Right? I don't
have a ton of space to compost.What are some things that urban
residents or even just peoplewith limited space in general?
Maybe they're not in an urbanenvironment. They're in an
apartment complex. They're in ajust a smaller space. What can
we do to still participate incomposting?
Gemini Bhalsod (23:45):
Yeah. If you don't have space for a hot
composting pile in yourbackyard, there's a lot of
compost like systems out therethat are better suited for a
small space or indoors even. So,for example, like, worm
composting, like you mentionedearlier, Abigail, is a compost
like system to help, you know,use up those food scraps and
(24:08):
give it to the worms, and thenthat vermicompost at the end can
also be used as a soilamendment. You can also there's
also systems like bokashi, thatpeople can use to process their
food scraps. I live in a condoin Chicago and I utilize a food
scrap pickup service, so it's aprivate service that, you know,
(24:30):
we have a tote in our back alleythat has a lock, and I drop off
my food scraps in there, anddifferent folks in my
neighborhood can also subscribeto that bin and drop off their
food scraps as well. And sousing those pick up or drop off
services can be a feasibleoption as well.
Erin Garrett (24:49):
So what can we do to kind of scale all of these
efforts to have a greater impactglobally? Right? We talk a lot
about individual actions that wecan take. We did get to the
community level and talked aboutsome different examples, but
what can we do to continuescaling scaling composting up?
Sue Gasper (25:07):
Yeah. In addition to the community level scaling, I
think that's in terms ofcomposting waste, getting more
communities composting is theway to go. But one thing that we
do need to remember is just tokind of try to minimize our food
(25:28):
waste in the first place. Like,you know, we we tend to
especially in the US, we have alot of lot of food that gets
wasted. And so really justtrying to really be conscious of
how much we're buying and usingand eliminating that food waste
from the get go so thatcomposting is, like, not a
(25:53):
primary solution to food waste,but, like, what we can do with
the little bit of food wastethat's left over. So really
trying to minimize our foodwaste instead is is something
that we we can all be betterabout.
Erin Garrett (26:09):
How much of our food doesn't actually even make
it to our plate? Right? Or,like, some produce, like, if it
has a bruise on one side, it'sgonna sit at the grocery store
and then it just, like, goes. Sobeing okay with more, like,
imperfect produce. And I knowfor myself since really getting
into starting my vegetablegarden and it actually being
successful this year, like, forthe first time, it is amazing
(26:31):
how I will, like, have so muchfood. I'm like, we have to eat
it all before it goes badbecause I put all this work into
it. I'm so much more invested innot wasting this food versus
like getting it from the grocerystore. And I'm like, well, why?
I should be doing that theretoo. So I was just like having a
different perspective for me.Lately, I've been just a lot
(26:52):
more conscious of food waste andseeing what we're taking out to
the compost versus putting it inthe garbage. I'm like, oh my
gosh. There's so I have so muchgreen. There's so many greens
and my compost can be so manyvegetables, and it's, like,
constantly vegetables andfruits, and there's so much of
just, like, the ends that youchop. But, yeah, when something
goes bad in the fridge and thenyou have to toss it, you know,
(27:14):
making sure, like you said,buying the right amount and then
prioritizing eating it, not,like, bringing home your bag of
lettuce that sits in the fridgeevery week and then goes into
the garbage and then is replacedby another bag. Right? That
definitely is a big piece of it.
Abigail Garofalo (27:28):
Yeah. And the the thoughtfulness behind all of
that. Right? Like, it's, I'veseen lots of people try
solutions of, like, how can Imake my vegetables more visible
in my fridge? Like, the, youknow, that you have, like, the
typical drawers where vegetablesgo in your fridge, and I've seen
people, like, replace and putthe condiments in those drawers
and then put the vegetables inthe doors. So that way it's like
(27:49):
they see them every time theyopen it, because how many times
have you thrown a, you know, acarton of strawberries in your
fridge and just they got moldybefore you even realized they
were there. Right? So just kindof I think a thoughtfulness is
so important to, like, what dowe eat? When do we eat it? How
often do I eat it? Do I need tobuy it? Maybe, okay. I'm gonna
(28:10):
make this dish that uses all ofthese veggies. My recent
favorite hack I found is, Ihave, like, produce and in my
fridge, and I'm like, it needsto be eaten, so I'll I'll type
into AI, like chat AI, and belike, I have these four things
that need to be eaten. What dishcan I make with it?
Sue Gasper (28:30):
Oh, I love that.
Abigail Garofalo (28:32):
So, like, just different there's, like,
different innovative solutionsto figuring out why we are
wasting food. Right? Some ofit's on a larger scale of like,
a cultural scale of, like, it'sjust funny shaped, but we can
still eat it. Some of it's likea just a systematic in your
home. You just don't realize.I'm a really forgetful person. I
seriously just forget that thereare certain things in my fridge
(28:53):
all the time. And so having thatkind of shift in in your in your
fridge even just might behelpful. So,
Sue Gasper (29:02):
Like, I guess I would drive home, like, finding
what works best for you. Like,what and and it may not be
composting yourself. It may be,you know, go bringing your food
scraps to a drop off-site. Itmay be having a pickup service.
It may be, you know, like beingan advocate for composting
(29:24):
legislation, and telling otherpeople what you've learned about
composting, but really figuringout what fits your interest,
abilities, and budget, I think,is important to stress.
Abigail Garofalo (29:38):
I think, like, vermicomposting is a good
example because there's a lot ofick factor. Like, some people
are like, I don't want worms inmy house. That was a whole thing
with my family for, like, acouple of years, and I was like,
the worms are fine. Leave themalone. And so, yeah, that's,
like, about what works for you.And if you're someone who, like,
wants to take that as kind of alearning opportunity. When I had
(30:00):
my, compost bin, I was, like,sharing a lot on, like, my
social media pages. I was, like,I added cantaloupe and now
there's, like, little flieseverywhere. Like, it really
accelerated that process andcaused certain reactions to
occur and and, kinda took it as,like, a science. And it is a
science.
Right? Like, I'm askingquestions, and I'm I'm trying
(30:22):
out if something works, and thenI'm figuring out why and and
things like that. And sothinking about it in that way,
and I also say, like, joining acommunity, there's so many,
like, little groups on Facebookor, like, people who are special
interested in those things to,like, troubleshoot with because
there is a lot oftroubleshooting. It's it's with
composting, and it's like, oh,it did this work. Why didn't it
(30:43):
work? Does anybody know why? Hasanyone faced this problem
before? What did you do toaddress it? And talking to your
local Extension staff and askingthem those questions finding
your community of people thatcan help support you in that
journey as well because you'renot in it alone. There's us you
know, we have, you know, thesetwo wonderful people on our
podcast who are exploring this,not just because it is a really
(31:07):
wonderful solution to food wasteand greenhouse gas emissions
when it comes to that foodwaste, but also because there is
an interest by communities toaddress it in this way. And so I
think that's a really great wayto just kind of know you're not
on this journey alone. Trycomposting and find people who
like it too.
Sue Gasper (31:26):
Well, I like what you said about it's an
experiment. You know? Like, youtry things, maybe it doesn't
work. You try to figure out whyand think about it critically. I
love it.
Abigail Garofalo (31:38):
Well, Sue and Gemini, thank you so much for
sharing your knowledge oncomposting. Now we're going to
finish today's episode witheveryday observations where we
highlight the mundane and normalof our environment that is
actually really interesting.Erin, I'm gonna call on you to
go first. What's your everydayobservation this week?
Erin Garrett (31:58):
Alright. Well, I've kind of talked about it a
little bit, but for me, thispast year has been, we've been
in a new house, so we've beenable to finally put in the vet,
start putting in vegetablegarden of my dreams. This is
phase 1. It will grow. Puttingthat in, starting the compost,
and so we're just finallystarting to see, like, the
circle of the system, right,which is really exciting to be
(32:19):
able to grow our own food andthen, you know, food waste,
scraps go into the compost. Andthen eventually because I have I
need to work on my ratio as nowI know, which I already knew in
the back of my head, but it'sbeen confirmed. Oh, I need more
browns. Eventually, right, thenbeing able to take that compost
and put it back into the garden,will be really, really exciting
(32:39):
for me. So it's just been funseeing I've never had a
successful vegetable gardenbefore because I didn't have a
good spot. So if you all livedclose to me, I would give you
all of the cucumbers that I havebecause I am overwhelmed, but
it's still it's a good problem.So, it's been it's been fun just
to kinda see the whole system asit as it's been working.
Abigail Garofalo (33:00):
Well, that's awesome. I would say make
cucumber salad, but you'vealready probably
Erin Garrett (33:04):
Every day.
Abigail Garofalo (33:04):
Cucumber dishes.
Erin Garrett (33:05):
Every night. Every night. I just came back, yeah,
from from vacation, and it's Ipicked all the cucumbers before
I left and gave them away. Andthere it's they're all there's a
ton. There's a lot.
Abigail Garofalo (33:18):
And there's more, and you've already run out
of people. They're like, no morecucumbers from you. No more. Run
into Erin on the street. She'llgive me a cucumber kind of
person.
Erin Garrett (33:27):
There's gonna be a stand outside my house pretty
soon that's, like, free. Pleasetake.
Abigail Garofalo (33:33):
Not a bad idea. I'd want to finish. So
alright, Sue. What is youreveryday observation?
Sue Gasper (33:41):
So this past week, I had my husband asking me, like,
oh, I've seen these, like,really huge, like, slow moving
wasps. Like, what the heck arethey? And then our neighbor,
just like 2 days ago, had thishuge mound in his yard that
(34:03):
looked like a massive anthill,and we figured out that they
were the cicada killer wasps. Sothat was really cool.
Abigail Garofalo (34:13):
Yeah. Largest wasps in Illinois.
Sue Gasper (34:16):
Yeah.
Abigail Garofalo (34:17):
Oh, they're huge and alarming, but they're
really not interested in people.Like.
Sue Gasper (34:23):
Yeah, not at all. So that was pretty exciting. It was
kind of funny how, like, myhusband noticed them, and then
the neighbor was asking. Hethought maybe he had voles or
something in his yard, and thenhe got really excited because he
saw one going in and out, and,yeah, it was really cool.
Abigail Garofalo (34:42):
Oh. Yeah. I'm, like, kind of keeping note too
if you see it next year because,like, we're in that dog day
cicada period right now.
Sue Gasper (34:50):
Yeah.
Abigail Garofalo (34:51):
Alright, Gemini.
Gemini Bhalsod (34:53):
So at the beginning of July, I was
supposed to go on this campingtrip in Wisconsin. It got rained
out, and so I pivoted. And, acouple weeks ago, I was on an
all day canoeing trip on theKankakee River. It was
beautiful. The water was, clearand lovely, and we saw an eagle
(35:17):
perched up in kind of a halfdead tree on the bank of the
river, and it was, like, flyingand swooping around the river.
It got quite low, while we werewhile we were canoeing just
right along it for a littlewhile, and it's always so
amazing to, you know, see aneagle that close. And I'm very
(35:39):
infamously, like, not the best,like, wildlife observation
person as, like, a plant person,gardener, horticulturalist. And
so every time I have a cool birdor wildlife experience, it
really sticks with me because Idon't have very many.
Abigail Garofalo (36:00):
I feel like an eagle sighting is really special
too. Like, it's just really kindof and they're so distinct
looking when you see, like, theones that that do have the like,
the older adults that do have,like, the white head if they're
not juveniles, and it's yeah.That's really it's they sticks
with you. It's a good way to sayit. So
Gemini Bhalsod (36:18):
Yeah. It's really it is also possible there
was a juvenile with the adult aswell, but, like, I would not be
the person to be able to tellyou that, because I just don't
know.
Abigail Garofalo (36:30):
Very cool.
Erin Garrett (36:31):
Alright, Abigail. You're up.
Abigail Garofalo (36:33):
Okay. So I, have been, like, going around,
Cook County lately, and I washeaded back from, like, a field
day. And I was like, why don'tyou know, I have some time
today. Why don't I stop by, youknow, a local nature preserve
just to kinda see what's goingon there? And I stopped by
Indian Boundary Prairie, andit's like this really random
(36:54):
Illinois Nature Preserve.
It like, you you don't look likeyou should be able to walk in,
but you, like the doors open,and you're like and it's gated,
and you can see, like, theexpressway from, you know, one
side. And it's it's very odd theway it's surrounded, but I was
just so excited to see itbecause it's really good. We're
recording this in July, so thisit's really good, like, flower
(37:16):
season right now to see flowersin the prairie. And so it was
exciting because I got to seelots of flowers that were also
blooming in my yard, because Ihave a lot of native natives
growing in my yard, so I got tosee butterfly weed. There was,
like, a little, like, orangespurt of it, and I have, wild
indigo, wild white indigo, andso I got to see that, Culver's
(37:38):
root and just like a lot ofother plants that I was like, oh
my gosh. That grows in my yard.That grows in my yard. And then
to kinda see how it grows alittle differently with all of
that root competition in anative prairie was just really
interesting to think about. Youknow, like, that one's not
flopping even though it rainedyesterday. Mine is.
And so, to kind of think abouthow could I apply that to my
(38:00):
yard and and all of that, it wasjust really, really cool. And
then I also got to see leadplant, which I don't have in my
yard, and I just love leadplant. I think it's so pretty
and just different. And so itwas just it was really neat and
really exciting, and I love achance to go kinda do just a I
got it to only be there for,like, 20 minutes because I had
to kinda get going, but I didn'thave to, like, go into it very
(38:22):
far to see some really coolstuff, and it was neat. So
alright.
Well, thanks you two for sharingyour everyday observations and
Erin as well and, just kind ofbeing with us to chat about
composting as a solution, forone of the solutions for climate
change. It's a grand challengethat we're facing, and so
different ways to approach itand different ways to talk about
(38:43):
it is is just really exciting toexplore all of that. And, well,
this has been another episode ofthe Everyday Environment
podcast. Check out next week forour last episode of the season
where we talk to Duane Friendabout climate action.
(39:04):
This podcast is a University ofIllinois Extension production,
hosted and edited by AbigailGarofalo, Erin Garrett, and Amy
Lefringhouse.
Matt Wiley (39:15):
University of Illinois Extension.
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