May 21, 2025 • 42 mins
This week we chat with Peggy Anesi, Natural Resources, Environment, and Energy Educator for Illinois Extension in northern Illinois. Peggy brings a wealth of experience in environmental education and shares her experiences working to engage different audiences all about water. From Watershed Stewards to a Paddle and Learn program to youth educational offerings, Peggy discusses the importance of engaging communities at multiple levels to become advocates for clean water in their communities. Check out Peggy's blog on this topic here.
Learn more about the Watershed Stewards program
Questions? We'd love to hear from you!
Abigail Garofalo aeg9@illinois.edu, Erin Garrett emedvecz@illinois.edu, Amy Lefringhouse heberlei@illinois.edu
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Abigail Garofalo (00:07):
Welcome to another episode of the Everyday
Environment podcast where weexplore the environment we see
every day. I'm your host,Abigail Garofalo.
Erin Garrett (00:16):
And I'm your cohost, Erin Garrett.
Abigail Garofalo (00:17):
And today, we are here with Peggy Anesi, the
natural resources, environment,and energy educator with Boone,
DeKalb, and Ogle County, here tochat with us about community
engagement and water. Welcome,Peggy.
Peggy Anesi (00:30):
Thank you. It's good to be here with both of
you.
Abigail Garofalo (00:33):
And you're a long term friend of the pod.
We've had you on. I actuallywe're in the process of looking
back at our old archives, andwe're like, Peggy, there she is
back in the day. Doing it whenwe were on our our ten minute,
eight minute podcast realm, andErin and I weren't even here.
And so you're not unfamiliar.You are familiar with the
(00:53):
podcast and and recording withus, and we're glad to have you.
So
Peggy Anesi (00:57):
Long as it's not too familiar. Right? Hopefully,
it doesn't turn people off.
Abigail Garofalo (01:02):
No. I think people are like, Peggy's on
again. Yeah.
Peggy Anesi (01:05):
I have them all fooled.
Abigail Garofalo (01:06):
Well, you've been with us for a long time,
and maybe people know, but maybepeople don't know. And so I also
think, like, the work of anextension educator is just a
little bit ambiguous. People arelike, what does that what do
what do the educators do even?And so in your own
interpretation of what you do,Peggy, tell us a little bit
about yourself and and just thework you do in your role.
Peggy Anesi (01:27):
You know, when you said that, my first thought was,
who am I? Who am I after allthese years? Big picture in a
short amount of time. You know,I started out as a naturalist
because when you're a kid in thesixties and seventies, we spent
so much time outside on theground. Right? And then I became
a scientist when I went tocollege. I studied wildlife,
zoology, later a master's ineducation. So my scientist
(01:47):
person, and now I compare what Ido. I'm really a naturalist
again. And I think I think beingan an extension educator, being
our role to di- you know, makescience digestible, I think is
more of an of a naturalist role.It has a it has that social
capacity that sometimes inscience, you aren't working on
that. You're working on thescience, and your capacity to
share it isn't as comfortable oreasy, but people need that. And
(02:12):
I think that now I'm just gonna,I'm a naturalist. I'm not really
a scientist anymore, but I'msharing what I see. But I also
have to understand that thatsocial capacity of who who we're
talking to to engage them andpay attention instead of just
telling them, you know,everything. So I think that
works. I've been with Extensionfor a quarter of a century. I
(02:32):
think, yeah, definitely wentfrom scientist to to naturalist
in that time and had manydifferent titles.
Erin Garrett (02:38):
That's a great description of what we do. I
think that's, like, maybe thebest description I've heard,
Peggy. I love that so much.
Peggy Anesi (02:44):
Well and I I took a professional development, last
January. I did a lot ofindigenous knowledge
professional development. It wasreally exciting out of some
stuff out of Canada. I wasgetting I like, in my head
argumentative because there'sthey were saying that our, you
know, European settler andscience was different. And
they're now this, I said and I'mthinking, no. I I teach sci- I I
(03:05):
I'm doing what you're doing. I'mdoing what you're doing. Then
that that's when I realized Iwas no longer the research
scientist person, which weabsolutely need. I was the
indigenous knowledge sharingperson, and that's great. They
go together so well. Theprofessional development was
kind of a them and us, differentdifferent, but really, Extension
educators are the perfect blendof science and sharing that
(03:30):
knowledge from a naturalresource perspective.
Abigail Garofalo (03:33):
Science isn't done until it's communicated.
Peggy Anesi (03:35):
Nice. I like that. I'm gonna have to write that
down.
Abigail Garofalo (03:38):
I did not come up with that myself. I stole
that from somewhere else. Sodon't
Peggy Anesi (03:43):
I know, and I never can remember who. It's not
anonymous, but it's a piece tome. That's excellent. That's
that's an excellent way to bookin that.
Erin Garrett (03:50):
Awesome. Well, now that we know a little bit more
about what you do, Peggy, whenwe're talking on this season of
the podcast all about water,we've kind of taken some deep
dives into different topicsabout water, talked about how
communities handle water issues.And today, we're really talking
about how individual peoplecoming together in their
communities can really help beinvolved in their watersheds. So
(04:12):
what drew you to engaging andeducating your community about
watersheds?
Peggy Anesi (04:18):
So recently, I had to talk with my supervisor and,
like, okay. If you're gonna dowater, that's fine. It's
perfect. You know, where did itcome from? Like, trying to build
a legacy statement. Right? And,actually, one of the things that
got me thinking the most and Icannot find it. Maybe you guys
could find it. There was acommercial on television years
and years ago, and it was it wasthe the turn of bottled water
(04:42):
time frame. And there were thesehigh school kids all hanging out
by this flowing beautiful creek.The video was them. They're
looking at the water. They'retouching it. And one one young
man stands up, misterentrepreneur, and he said, I
could I could bottle and sellthis. And the other young man in
the group said, are you crazy?Nobody's gonna buy water. It
moved me. I can't find itanywhere. It's like, did I dream
(05:04):
it? No. I'm pretty sure it was areal commercial, but I cannot
I've searched and searched. Sothat got my focus.
I did grow up in in a rivervalley, very aware of the river,
not as a pollution free zone,but a food zone. A lot of our a
lot of my classmates' friendsworked on the barges. Right? It
was their income. And we had westill had mussel. We called them
clamors, right, that wereharvesting clams for food. In
(05:26):
that area, we used to have backin the before the 1942 when we
started using petroleum forbuttons. We had clamshells all
over the shores punched forbuttons. I never thought
anything of it, but it was allabout economics. Right? It
wasn't about how clean or dirtyit was. And it was the Illinois
River, so it had a whole lotgoing on. And then I read an
article at one point, and I itwas in a really it was a between
(05:47):
the lines thing. And, basically,a lot of companies were buying
land in other countries that hadno petroleum. There was, like,
nothing on the landscape. Theywere buying it because they
would have then water rights tosell it back to those people.
Now I haven't followed up onthat. I have no but it was like,
that's horrible. Right? So nowthere's a control thing going
on, and I'm like, we can'tcontrol water. You know? It's
(06:10):
gonna move and flow.
And one scientific journal outof the US said and I quoted I I
there's a quote. It said, newwater is made daily. And I'm
like, holy cow. Well, I knowthat they were trying to explain
the water cycle, but theyweren't making it digestible.
They just said new water's madeevery day. So let's go do what
we want with that because we'regetting new stuff every day.
They were just explaining theliquid time of the water cycle.
(06:32):
Right? So it just slowly keptbuilding into a concern for
water. It just it's coming, youknow, and then I would get some
support from other journals.Like, this is gonna be the next
best big problem as far as notnot a problem, but it wouldn't
have to be. We just have to caremore. So I just have been coming
back to water over and over. Andfinally now, right, we're seeing
(06:53):
a huge you guys are focused onit. Thank you so much. Our
communities are realizing wateris the number one economic
driver.
Abigail Garofalo (06:59):
It's where a lot of communities settle.
Right? Like, that's where we seewe look at the major cities in
the US, in the world, andthey're all centered around a
body of water somewhere.
Peggy Anesi (07:10):
Because they have to have it, and you have to
drink it. And if you don't havewater, your community doesn't
exist. You could haveeverything, everything. But if
you don't have water, thecommunity doesn't exist. It
can't.
Abigail Garofalo (07:20):
I remember on a smaller scale even when my
first experience with Extensionwas an internship in Cook
County, and I was working withcommunity and school gardens and
learning about, like, how does acommunity garden start? How does
it establish? Things like that.And the biggest issue identified
was, like, well, what's youraccess to water? And so, like,
hydrant keys were, like, areally big deal in Chicago.
(07:40):
Could you get one? Things likethat. And so, like, they're
like, if you don't have a decentaccess to a flow of water, you
like, your community garden isgonna have a really hard time
succeeding. And so just on thatminor scale, right, of, like,
just even just trying to getthis, like, community space
where you're growing things.Don't have water? I don't know
what you're gonna do. Right? Soit's really interesting.
Erin Garrett (08:01):
That commercial that you mentioned reminds me of
the Lorax when they bottle upthe air.
Abigail Garofalo (08:05):
I was thinking that
Erin Garrett (08:06):
and deliver the air. And they're like, who would
buy this? And, like, everyonedoes.
Peggy Anesi (08:10):
Right. I would love to find that commercial and and
use it to teach high schoolstudents because it it was just
it was very clever. It's veryclever. And, you know, and and
you think about, like, whenFlint, Michigan happened, you
know, people thought they weredoing the right thing. They
didn't know that scrubbing thosepipes would release all this
lead, and that took if itdoesn't happen to us, we just
go, oh, poor Flint. Right? Wedidn't get excited. We didn't go
(08:32):
we just went and got a glass ofwater. And it's it's should be a
really good example that and I'msure other I'm sure communities
are, like, looking at theirpipes and trying to find grant
money. I don't doubt thatthey're it made efforts, but I
was working with a five stategroup, the North Central Water
Region Network, and we had ournext grant was a go. The
foundation that we were gonnaget money from said we can't
(08:52):
honor these and honor any grantsbecause Flint might need us. So,
yes, that's where it should goto to help people. But it it
wasn't just Flint. It affected awhole bunch of clean water
actions that myself and manyother groups were probably
trying to get accomplished. Itjust halted it and it for the
right reasons to help people,but we were gonna help other
(09:13):
people too, but it just wasn'tan emergency. So things happen
and and, you know, it's the samewater, same planet, different
inputs, Same water, same planet.So we have to think about which
this podcast, these thingsyou're doing is talking about
those different inputs, right,and how we can support them as a
community and maybe make minorchanges and make big differences
(09:34):
in those inputs.
Abigail Garofalo (09:35):
One thing we talked about in an earlier
podcast when we talked about theChicago River and all the
engineering feats that they didthat they didn't think about,
these are, like, long termchanges that we made to our
drinking water supply or to ourto our water systems that were a
hundred years ago changes thatwe're talking about the
repercussions or even just theeffects in general of that
(09:56):
today. And so what kind of fixeswe have or what kind of
solutions we have to our waterand our community and access and
and things like that. Like,these are not, this is gonna be
a ten year fix or this is gonnabe like, these are gonna be
things that we have to thinkabout on, like, this long term
investment scale, and that's, Ithink, really hard for humans to
think about and invest in. Imean, we we know that based on a
(10:18):
lot of other environmentalissues we see, and it's just
wild, but also so important.Right? Like, we have to have
water.
Peggy Anesi (10:25):
Well and I was checking the dates. Like, I
don't memorize dates. The CleanWater Act. Now I'm older maybe
than you know? But I'm notancient. Right? When I graduated
with my first degree, mybachelor of science degree was
the year of the Clean Water Act.It took that long. And I'm like,
you know? And here we are stillstill trying to help people
(10:47):
understand what I think becausewe focus mostly on industry, got
focused on the situation athand, which was the massive
amounts of pollution and andneed to fix some of that. And we
put regulations for the rightreasons. It's not about
regulating the business, theindustry as much as it is about
preserving the community that'sgoing to work every day to work
(11:10):
there and and to be healthy. ButI'd looked at those dates, and I
was like, it just seems like itshould have been way before my
time, right, that we werefocused on that. But clearly, it
wasn't.
Abigail Garofalo (11:19):
To kinda turn us around a little bit, Peggy,
you've been doing this, like yousaid, for twenty five years.
You've been focusing on varioustopics, but you've really kind
of come to focus on water. Iknow you're like, oh,
Peggy Anesi (11:29):
I think they're gonna be able to hear my face
change, like
Abigail Garofalo (11:32):
Yes. We do constantly have to remind
ourselves audio medium. You'vebeen doing this for so long, and
you've been seeing you've had alot of different opportunities
to engage the community indifferent ways, in all different
stages of of life, in alldifferent stages of community as
well. Right? From fromlegislative professionals to
just adults that come into yournature center, to youth, to,
(11:52):
like, even youth organizing withschools, things like that. I
guess my question for you is Iwould love to hear some of your,
like or even just one of yourmemorable success stories from
your work in communityengagement on watersheds.
Peggy Anesi (12:04):
Success stories. I think seeing a kindergartner
understand the water cycle usingcolored little squares and
traveling around the room andmaking a little bar graph and
realizing they were in the oceana lot. I know it sounds like a
small thing, but just if we canjust start. So, you know, so
every we try to have somethingdifferent for every grade level.
It helps them see.
They don't have to remember,but, you know, we have to learn
(12:25):
things, what, three times. Wehave to hear it more and more.
So in the youth world, I just wefocus on water so much, and we
I'm sitting on the south branchof the Kishwaukee River in
northern Illinois, my naturecenter. If I could throw well
enough, I could hit the waterfrom where I'm sitting, and it's
a class A stream. I put kids inthat water and teach them about
everything in there and theamount of empathy, and then
(12:46):
they'll see other people in theriver during the week of camp
and be very concerned at howthey're treating that water,
physically treating, lifting upa a mussel and just tossing it
back in when they know how toset it back correctly. It's it's
engagement. If you're notengaged, how do you know? Right?
And so taking that a littlefarther and knowing I can't make
a difference from the bottom up,it takes too long.
(13:09):
So last year, was it last year?Or maybe the year be it went
into two years, went into 23,24. I designed a watershed
stewardship for leaders. It's anacademy for your municipalities.
They're reaching out and wannaknow how to help with their
ordinances, but they're notlearning what it is. Right? So
having that happen and havingpeople show up and wanna know
(13:31):
and then having results come outof that was probably the I mean,
I felt like I finally did theone big thing, and now one of my
other counties wants it. Even ifthey don't end up getting it to
fly, I feel like I I conqueredsomething. I I finally cut
through a barrier to get anaverage of 32 people at the
table four times a month apart.They showed up a month apart to
(13:54):
understand what to do and madechanges, tangible changes. They
calibrated their salt trucks.They quit dumping salt right by
the storm drains. They just weredoing it because it was they
were told to do it. They hired apart time watershed person at
the county level to adjust dealwith watershed issues. Where
does that happen? I didn't dothat. I had speakers. Right? I
(14:17):
facilitated. I handed themsomething, but they did it.
And I don't know what happenedif it took twenty five years. I
don't understand what happened,actually. I do kinda know how
how we got people there. I didnot pay them, just so we're
clear. No bribery. I'm justliving off of that still. Right?
And we finished that a year ago,February. We did that, and now
we're ready to start it again.I'm just it's not ego. I thought
(14:40):
about that. It's awe. Like,finally. And if one group
listened, somebody else next tothem because this shouldn't be a
county. It should be regional.Right? Cost should be spread out
regionally. Money is always thebarrier with anything like with
water. Right? You can't raisetaxes that high, but you don't
have the the money regionally.
And in that same county, theynow passed Boone County,
(15:01):
Illinois right up againstWisconsin. I can say this
because I'm so proud. They justpassed. They're gonna have
LIDAR. They're gonna fly theentire county with lidar, which
will do groundwater level checksat up to a thousand feet.
Abigail Garofalo (15:16):
Wow.
Peggy Anesi (15:17):
Almost $500,000, and they passed it. And I did
ask someone at the instigatedthis that was the assessed need
for this. I said, is there anychance we could say that we got
this to happen because of thewatershed leadership? And he
goes, absolutely. That's thefollow up because people voted
against it, but the majority,you know, said yes. And those
people were in the room thatcame and understood.
Abigail Garofalo (15:40):
Yeah. The value was beyond a dollar number
that, like, you could that wascommunicated in your class. So
that way these these decisionmakers who were voting on this
were able to say, like, Iactually can tell you based on
the knowledge that I've gainedhow this is gonna bring value,
and we're gonna get the longterm payoff for this. And they
actually can conceptualize thatas opposed to just being like,
(16:01):
well, yeah, somebody told meit's a long term payoff, but,
like, all I see is the dollar onthe paper. And so getting the
space for those leaders to tosee that, to actually understand
that and to bring that intotheir brains and have that
almost be a lens in theirdecision making is just so
incredible.
That's it's I've been hearingabout that program for the last
year, Peggy, if not longer, andI'm also in awe of it, so.
Peggy Anesi (16:25):
It's its own monster. I just guide it, honest
to gosh. And my programcoordinator did the pretty stuff
that made all the all theagendas look nice. I just yeah.
I'm just really I'm proud ofeverybody who showed up. I'm
over the moon that it workedbecause I feel like that was a a
curtain we just couldn't getthrough if it's not from the
top. So then these children thatwe're seeing that will have this
(16:46):
they won't fight it. Right?They'll come to it and go, yes.
I will keep this going. Soyou're trying to meet people in
that middle space so that it'sdoesn't stop, you know, at some
point.
Abigail Garofalo (16:55):
Yeah.
Peggy Anesi (16:56):
And a lot of and a lot of people come back. I
remember when we learned aboutthe water because we've got them
in the water. Right?
Erin Garrett (17:02):
Mhmm. That's really just inspiring because I
feel like with a lot of bigissues, we kind of can get
discouraged sometimes inreaching adults and say, well,
like, people have their whatthey think about this, and
there's only so much we can doto change people's minds. So we
just have to start with kids andhope that, right, the next
generation can help solve theseissues. But you're working on
(17:23):
both sides of it. Right? And andworking, yes, with youth so that
we do raise the next generationto be more cognizant of their
water and understand thoseissues, but then also working
with leaders to help them,empower them, right, with the
knowledge that they need. Sojust to see that kinda come
together is really awesome.
Abigail Garofalo (17:43):
And to have something that these youth can
look up to as well. Right? Like,they can they can see a goal in
their head. Like, there's atarget now of, like, these is
this is what people are doingbecause we know that doom and
gloom can really, like, dampenan interest. Right? Like, well,
there's nothing I can do becauseall the people making decisions
that I'm gonna have to clean uplater, like, why? And so having
(18:03):
that two, like, dual endedapproach is just so valuable.
Peggy Anesi (18:07):
I just had a group on Sunday. I came out and met
with the the environmental clubfrom one of our local high
schools. And I first said, youknow, we don't have a lot of
time together, but I'd reallylike to get to know you. And
there was maybe 10, you know, 10kids. And they introduced
themselves, told me what I said,then tell me what you're
thinking you'd like to do. Oneof them just was, accepted the
day before at at U of I. And shewas doing she was interested in
(18:31):
urban landscape designsustainability. I'm like, yes.
And another girl was betweengeology and something else. And
I said, well, if I could votefor you right now, what you you
can do those things.
I'd vote for the geology andgroundwater. You'll never be
unemployed because this is ournext big issue. People are
talking about setting up youknow? There's a a word I
couldn't think of this morningwhen I was just thinking about
(18:52):
this. But, basically,groundwater districts, they're
trying to set them up and havecontrol, but the water never
stops moving. You know? Youdon't own water no more than you
own the air you're breathing.Right? You can write policy to
protect it for you. But I said,you know, you're gonna you'd be
employed forever, and you getpaid a lot of money for it
because it is gonna be the next.I mean, we have our population
(19:15):
is too high for it not to be,and there's nothing wrong with
having a high population. I'veread and and heard that we do
have enough resources to sustain8,000,000 people on the planet.
It's it's, as we know, not allspread evenly.
Abigail Garofalo (19:28):
Yeah.
Peggy Anesi (19:29):
Yeah. But we can do this, but managing it and trying
to control it isn't gonna beit's just gonna start being team
sports again. Right? Well, wedon't want that. We don't want
we want it regional. We wannatake care of it together. Don't
start putting, you know, lineswhere you can't you're that's
like a moving target. You can'tdo that. You know, the Earth
(19:49):
doesn't know there's countylines. Right? Ordinances should
be regional based on watersheds.Not in my lifetime or not in my
career is this gonna happen, butthat's what happened up where we
did the one county. One of theboard members that disagreed and
didn't vote for that to thatlidar to happen, I agree with
him because it shouldn't be onecounty. He said, other counties
around us, it should be regionalmoney. We're you know, they're
(20:11):
regionally, they should all beputting in money to see because
this he understands. There's nocounty lines underground. And I
told him, I said, I agree withyou, and he goes, you agree with
me. I'm like, I do. But I'm gladit passed, you know, because we
can show. This is a showcase.And we're only that that's only
the, what, the third county westof the Great Lake in the middle
of the state. You know? So thereis more to do, but steps are
(20:34):
steps are happening, so that'sexciting.
Erin Garrett (20:36):
So we talked about some successes, and we've
already kind of talked aboutsome challenges that we've seen.
But what are some challengesthat you've experienced in
getting communities involved incaring about their watershed?
And then if you have, you know,successes of how you've overcome
them, which we've already sharedsome, you can share those as
well.
Peggy Anesi (20:53):
I think the big thing, and I'll just one thing.
Getting for the watershedleadership one, we had their
peers invite them to come.Because Extension for the even
my entire career, it's still thebest kept secret. We work so
hard and do so much good work,but we do it with so many
partners. We kinda get dilutedin the mix. Right? Some people
don't even realize that a lot ofwhat's happening is Extension.
(21:16):
But what we did is we made us wejust made a small committee
based on this assess need to dowatershed education at this
level and had them tell us whoto invite. And we sent the
invites and said, you've beenchosen by your peers. They don't
know us. We're doing all thelifting behind the scenes. We
don't have to have our face outthere. But if we put their faces
they know and respect, and bygolly, 39 people registered and
(21:40):
32 average at the meetings atthe sessions. And I will do it
again just like that. And I eventold my next county, I said, I'm
here when you're ready to start,but you'll need to bring me a
committee of your of your localcommunity members. I can't do
this without their face andsupport because that's what made
it happen. Who knew after allthese years that's what, you
know, what we needed to do?
Abigail Garofalo (22:01):
Well, you have to have some kind of buy in.
Right? Like, it's if there's nobuy in, then my so and so
doesn't think it's important.Why would I think it's
important? Right? And so therewas this value communication
that was occurring that wasreally, really cool.
Peggy Anesi (22:14):
And that's with any program. You see you see
schoolyard spaces, gardens, ornatural spaces. And if the
janitor and maintenance peoplearen't on board, they don't
last. You know? And here we wejust had to get the right mix,
and somehow that was like Idon't know if it was out of here
we go again, and I how am Igonna get these people? Tell you
what, I don't wanna do it. Youget it. You get them. You know?
And it worked, and they didpick. We had to, you know, we
(22:37):
had to make sure they understoodthat if too many people showed
up from the board, it could be aquorum. So let's you know, here.
You're all invited. First come,first serve. We're only taking
so many. Oh my gosh. You know?Yeah. It was pretty cool. I was
pretty impressed.
And even the people on thecommittee, when it was over, you
know, we'd done our fourth one.The engineer said, you know, he
was all for it, but he didn'tthink it was gonna work as well
(22:58):
as it did. He thought there wastoo much redundancy. But if you
don't start the next session,bring in the last session. Start
the next session, bring in thelast two sessions. And he didn't
he but he doesn't program. Youknow? That's why we do what we
do. He didn't have faith in thestyle of programming and how to
program for public audience, inthis case, leaders. And, he
goes, boy, I didn't think thatwas gonna work that well. But
(23:20):
he's he never said that throughthe whole process that he didn't
have faith in it. And thenafter, he's like, which makes me
now understand what I have toexplain to the next group. You
know? You may not see thisworking, but it worked really
well. We've tested it. We'vepiloted it.
Abigail Garofalo (23:35):
That's what I try and communicate that to
people all the time. You know?They're like, well, I don't I I
have the information. I justneed to get it out there. And I
was like, and that is what we dobest. Like, we are really good
at figuring like, we'd spend alot of time just thinking about,
like, what is the best way? Whatis the science backed way to
even just communicate thisinformation? Not just the
information is science backed,but, like, what does the science
(23:56):
say about how people learn?Right? And the best way that
people get this information andthe best way to change behaviors
or attitudes. I feel likeExtension is really good at
evaluating that and saying,like, we know that changing
attitudes and behaviors can'tjust come from me telling you
information. You know that youshould eat so many veggies a
day. You know that you shouldexercise thirty minutes a day.
(24:19):
How many of you all do that?Right? We don't.
So just knowing informationdoesn't change behavior. And so
us as Extension professionals,like, we know, like and we a lot
of us are really good at this,and that's why we do our jobs.
And that's why Peggy's been inher role for so long because
she's good at it of, like, howdo we change attitudes? And
there are different strategiesfor doing that and how do how we
(24:40):
communicate the information, howoften we communicate the issue
information. The methods inwhich that's done is all very
carefully thought about with ouraudiences and who the audience
should be in the first place andgetting to the root of of where
behavior can actually change.And I'm really nerding out
because that's what my master'swas about was, like, how people
learn, and I love seeing thedifferent ways that we do that
(25:02):
to really change thoseattitudes.
Peggy Anesi (25:04):
A funny example that is just it's cute, and it's
it was harmless because it wassixth graders. I spent a day
with every sixth grader at thistime back when it happened in in
DeKalb School District, which isour largest school district. So
I saw so many sixth graders, andI was teaching watershed before
anybody was teaching watershed.And I decided to make it fun and
(25:25):
funny. Instead of just holding afunnel, I talked about a toilet
bowl. Right? Because it'sholding water. It's a watershed,
and all the water that goes init goes down. Right? It was the
perfect example. And what ifyour parent goes in with a can
of Lysol to clean the seat andspray it? Does all the spray
just touch the the seat? Andthey're like, no. It goes all
over the room. I said, does itgo in the water? Yes. It was the
(25:47):
best day. Everybody was on. Theywere they were laughing. I'm
like, it's funny.
Right? Anything icky you put inthere, and they're like, oh, you
know, it was just a great day.Every thank you note I got.
Thank you for teaching us thattoilets are a watershed. I don't
think it worked. And I thinksome of them probably knew I
think some of them probablymeant that they weren't you they
weren't Extension educators yet.I think some of them meant that
(26:11):
that example. Right? That thatis
Abigail Garofalo (26:12):
Yeah.
Peggy Anesi (26:13):
But they just thanks for teaching us that
toilets are watersheds. I went,yeah, that backfired. But they
weren't going to let theirparent put junk down the toilet.
Cleaning stuff should be on arag and wiped, not poured into
the water. At least I'm surethat got through.
Abigail Garofalo (26:29):
We've been talking about, like, over time,
have you seen any communityattitudes and behaviors towards
watersheds change over yourcareer?
Peggy Anesi (26:36):
Kids are always the same. They're excited. They're
interested. Water's fun. Wateryou know? That's whether they
take it with them, who knows?But they all get some form of
water education through activityand kinesthetic learning and but
there has been a big shiftbecause of watershed planning
has gotten bigger when peopleare realizing that they need to
take care of their personal fullwatershed because whatever's in
(26:56):
it is theirs.
Locally, I'm an associatedirector on our soil and water
conservation district board. Weare trying to do all the I think
they're HUC 12 hydrologic unit.What is a HUC? I can't remember.
I'll have to figure that outagain. But, basically, the
Kishwaukee River size, we aredoing all eight watersheds of
that size in our county usingEPA grants, local funding, and
(27:21):
focusing on education. We do abus tour of each one. The
community is invited. They doamazing stuff. My part is
because I work with them andhave a an agreement to be their
educator, I do education. Right?So we get to count our education
for the grant. And when they'rehere on the bus tour, this last
one, I did education here in thebuilding.
But seeing that more and morepeople, more and more groups,
(27:45):
whether they are the countythemselves or an organized
grassroots group, they arebuilding. Watershed management
plans are building. People areseeing very much more than when
I started. When when I tried toget people to do water education
with me at the adult level,people were like, why? And now
here we are. I have people thattook the master watershed
steward program, and I did thepilot for Illinois this last
(28:06):
year. They wanna do more. Wherecan I help? So we give them
places to go do it. We're notthey're not volunteering for us,
but they wanna participate. Someof them wanna help the next
class and and be a part of thenext class as a support person.
So that interest has never beenthere at that level. So we're
starting to do enoughprogramming. It's on us. We're
doing more. So they're seeing itfrom Extension's perspective
(28:28):
with all these different things,and they're seeing it in these
organizations that are like, wegotta do this. Because quite
frankly, soil and waterconservation districts have the
same cloak. We're sharing thatcloak of invisibility. We do all
they do all good work, and yetuntil it's a problem, we're not
paying attention.
Erin Garrett (28:43):
Mhmm.
Abigail Garofalo (28:44):
Who do we call? I don't know. Well, now
it's a problem. Let's justGoogle who comes first.
Peggy Anesi (28:49):
Yeah. Let's hope it's Extension. Right? Either
answer it or get them to theright space. And I think people
need to know that Extension isnot is also not, you know, the
know all stop site, but our jobis to find that and to help you,
with resources. Right? If wedon't have those resources, we
usually know someone who does orcan get you there.
Abigail Garofalo (29:06):
That's usually my standard answer as well. I
may not know, but I know someonewho does.
Peggy Anesi (29:11):
Mhmm. Yeah.
Erin Garrett (29:13):
I'm willing to find out. Yes. Alright, Peggy.
As we kind of start to wrap uptoday, are there any upcoming
projects or initiatives thatyou're particularly excited
about that you'd like to sharewith our audience?
Peggy Anesi (29:26):
When you said it, I decided I'd wait till the first
thing that popped in my head,and it's my paddle and learn
year two two point o. So Istarted last year with a grant
doing what I call the paddle andlearn, and it's taking teachers,
anybody K through 12. And lastyear, I actually had a high
school counselor sign up, and hewas the most engaged student of
all of them and took it back tohis science teachers within his
(29:48):
building. So but, basically,it's a professional development
opportunity for teachers up herein my unit. And day one, they
get certified by an organizationon in kayaks on a little pond
over in, in one of the townsright by here in DeKalb, and
then we learn all week. The keyis I told them, this is not your
usual teacher workshop. I'm notgonna tell you how to teach.
(30:09):
That would be ridiculous. I amnot a public school teacher. I'm
a professional educator, but Idon't do your job. But I I'm
gonna teach you all aboutwatersheds as a community member
because this will give you themost support to go in and be
willing to teach watersheds toyour children. And then if you
want me to help you, I will comeup with activities. But that was
the one thing they were shockedbecause usually that's like, and
(30:31):
here's this lesson you could do.And here what do those do? You
guys, they'll sit on a shelf ifand if you give them a whole
book, they do the ones they doin the workshop.
So I would rather open theirmind and spend we spent three
full days learning from myself,from a soil scientist, from
water scientists, from ahydrologist till they were aware
as a person in their communityabout their watershed. And then
(30:53):
we paddled the Rock River so wecould get more of the best
management practices or not. Sobookend to bookend, they
learned. And in the water here,they got to study mussels from a
guy who's a mussel specialist inour area, and they got to do
macroinvertebrates. And then itwas so exciting, and I'm gonna I
get I got grant money again.We're gonna repeat it. Now I
(31:15):
know to have some certainspeakers take more breaks.
Right? Because people are evenmy speakers came back to hear
the other speakers. So this isbuilding this ripple effect.
The best quote, and I'll leaveit with this, was day two. So we
had the the certification day,then we had a whole day of
education starting withhydrology. Day two for learning
(31:36):
was Tuesday morning. I'll justsay Becky came in, fourth grade
teacher, got her bagel. I fedthem well. Got her bagel, got
her juice, sat down with herfruit and bagel, and went, so
Peggy. I'm like, oh, here itgoes. Because it was an all day
hardcore learning, and it wasnot typical teacher workshoppy
stuff. She goes, so Peggy. Isaid, yeah. She goes, until
yesterday. This is a seasonedteacher teaching fourth grade
(31:59):
where human impact is a focus.She said, until yesterday, I
didn't even know what awatershed was, let alone that I
lived in one. So thank you.Throw the mic. Right?
Abigail Garofalo (32:09):
That's like your heart just, like, flutters
when you hear that.
Peggy Anesi (32:12):
Because we're doing something they've never I'm not
gonna hand them a lesson even ifI know it's good, but if but I
opened it up. And so and I alsosaid, you know, field trip. Come
up to my center. Part of whatthey get for coming to the
professional development is afree field trip for their kids.
So we can embed all that samewater education for them, and
they can use it as it. And thenone of the teachers, when we got
out of the kayak on the lastday, I didn't see him after
(32:34):
that. Right? They already did,you know, the eval and such with
it would be online, and thenthey had to do their one for the
for the professionaldevelopment. One of the fourth
grade teacher, in a group whowas the science person, she
said, well, she's taking off herlife jacket. She was like, yes.
I'm gonna have to spend some ofsummer rewriting the science
curriculum. And I'm like, may Iask why? She goes, well, I
(32:54):
usually use California mudslidesto explain erosion, but now I'm
gonna talk about cover crops anddifferent things that have to do
with our area here, you know,different best management
practices. I'm like, score.Right? Check.
So we get to do it again, andthis time it's not a pilot. I
have I it's very stressful whenyou do one of those as you guys
know for the first time. And nowit's gonna be like, this is how
(33:15):
it is. You know? So veryexcited.
Abigail Garofalo (33:18):
Whenever I do a program I've been doing for
years, I actually feel like anunreasonable amount of stress
that I don't I can't quiteplace. And I'm like, is it just
I, like, know what I'm doing? Idon't understand that feeling.
And so I hope you don't havethat this season because
Peggy Anesi (33:31):
I have it all the time, and I've had it for twenty
five years. And I think it'sbecause we care. We always wanna
make it better. And sometimes wedon't have the time to upgrade
or tweak it, and so we getstressed because we really
thought of things we could'vedone even better, but they don't
know. They're still learningreally great information.
Abigail Garofalo (33:48):
Well, Peggy, thank you so much for sharing
your knowledge about communityengagement. It's such a wealth
and such a a breadth ofknowledge between all of the
different audiences you addressand the different topics. And, I
mean, did you ever think, youknow, studying your wildlife
classes back in the day thatyou'd be this leading community
engagement expert on water? So
Peggy Anesi (34:10):
Of anything. I didn't wanna talk to people. Are
you kidding? I wanted to do I Ithought I'd be in the field
working with animals and not andby myself. I'm never by myself.
Abigail Garofalo (34:19):
Yep. You you're I mean, even always
surrounded by animals as well,but you're always surrounded by
something.
Peggy Anesi (34:24):
Yep. That's true too.
Abigail Garofalo (34:26):
Now we are going to finish today's episode
with everyday observation wherewe highlight the mundane and
normal of our environment thatis actually really interesting.
Erin, you wanna kick us off?
Erin Garrett (34:36):
Sure. So as we've been recording this season, you
probably heard a lot of us,mention we're recording in the
wintertime, so some of oureveryday observations don't
necessarily match the seasonwe're in now. But I wanted to
share just kind of a crazyweather day that we had this
winter. So with me being in infar, far, far southern Illinois,
(34:58):
we had, some freezing rain comethrough and woke up and all the
trees were covered in ice. Andthat same day, we had a
thunderstorm come through andmelt all of the ice. It was very
strange to have ice outside andthen hear a thunder and go, what
is that sound? That shouldn'thappen in the same day. And then
(35:20):
overnight, we had snow again. Soit was just like a crazy day of
we had no idea what was goingon. I was very fortunate to be
able to just be in my house andjust watch it the whole day and
not have to travel anywhere. Butthat was something I had not
experienced before was freezingrain, a thunderstorm, and snow
in the same day. So it was justkind of a crazy weather
(35:41):
phenomenon that was kinda coolto experience, to be honest with
you. But it was just veryinteresting. So I just wanted to
kinda highlight that on thepodcast.
Abigail Garofalo (35:50):
Yeah. We're gonna throw that clip on over to
Duane and see if he can justwrite about it in his weather
blog and just be like
Peggy Anesi (35:56):
Right? Yeah. The perfect the perfect mix.
Abigail Garofalo (36:00):
Amazing. Wonderful. Well, Peggy, what's
your everyday observation?
Peggy Anesi (36:05):
So I got to spend a little bit of time. I'm getting
ready to do a big presentation,and it's on beavers. And I
decided because I like beaversbe have become very popular with
what they're, you know, they'redoing what they do. And please
remember, beavers don't know wecare. Right? And I got to go see
a spot in one of our localforest preserves with the
ecologist. We looked at it on amap. I could not believe it. The
(36:28):
beaver are taking it's like it'sa drainage creek, right, from
from tiles from agriculture. Butthey're taking advantage of when
it gets high, and they've madethis pass over. They're berming.
They're swimming tunnels andkicking mud and making monstrous
berms as big as what humanscould make to so when the creek
goes up, it floods and makes apool. And in that pool are sand
(36:49):
are sand willows, which theylove, but they saw them all you
know, they chewed them all off.And whether they know it or not,
when they do that, all thesucker shoots come up. So
they've got a field of food withthese soft tender tidbits, and
they like, one of them is, like,square. Like, they made a, like,
a rice field.
So we got to go out there whenit was frozen last week and walk
on the ice and get to all thesespaces. So we had this huge cool
(37:11):
discussion as they're doing itto every living thing, plant or
animal. It has to all they wannado is eat enough to reproduce,
right, and keep their populationgoing. So we were talking about,
like, not being able to let itgo because it's heading toward
this remnant habitat. The bestway to see what was here or is
here is to have that remnant. Sohow do you allow them to do what
they do without losing aremnant? And and then they
(37:34):
created this flooded space thatshouldn't have been, and then we
had this beautiful excess oftadpoles, they told me. So now
if you're having a populationdecrease in an amphibian oh my
gosh. My world was, like, soconvoluted. I couldn't even
write it down. I was sooverwhelmed with thought. You
know? So, yeah, it was just soimpressive. It was just so
impressive to see. We know theydo stuff. I didn't know they did
(37:58):
large scale activity to providefor themselves by berming, and
they made pass throughs. Like,you could just walk right over
where they would have swam over,walk on the ice where they and
it's channeled, like, straightand pushed. It's incredible.
Abigail Garofalo (38:11):
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like farming. Like,
it's like, that's wild.
Peggy Anesi (38:15):
They're farming food for themselves. Mhmm.
Rodent agriculture. Right?
Abigail Garofalo (38:20):
Weirdly playing that in my brain, Peggy.
I'm blown away.
Peggy Anesi (38:23):
That stall in your voice is the awe. And they don't
even know who we are, what weare, or that we care. They're
just doing what they know how todo, and it's for as small as
their brain must be, it'simpressive. And they used to be
diurnal, but the pressures weretoo high of getting, you know,
consumed and used for pelts andsuch. They're nocturnal. They've
(38:44):
just they they have the factthat they can do that, but they
aren't thinking. We cannotanthropomorphize this. They are
not going well today. I'm notgoing to go out in in the
daylight because I could getharmed. You know, they're not
it's just unnatural.
Abigail Garofalo (38:56):
Yeah. Selective pressures to have
behaviors in a certain way andalso to the successes of of the
ones that could breathe.
Peggy Anesi (39:04):
And to solve situations you need to be better
by making a berm and making aflooded field to get the right
food. Alright. I'm done. I know.
Abigail Garofalo (39:12):
Yeah. If you all need to pause the episode,
that's
Peggy Anesi (39:15):
Take a deep breath.
Abigail Garofalo (39:16):
To to take a breath because that's how I
might need it. Mine is much lessexciting. It's not nearly as
cool. I feel like I'm like, canwe end it now? No. But I'll
share. I am just like I I amthinking truly about, like,
everyday observation and just,like, what is, like what do I
see every day? And I just lovemy backyard, and I go out there
just, like, missing summer andspring, thinking, like, are they
(39:38):
gonna come up? And, like, when'sgonna when are things gonna come
up? But there's still life outthere. And so it was really
exciting to see with the, I havequite a bit of raccoon activity
in my backyard. And so myeveryday observation is about
poop and scat, because that'show I know, like, what's in my
backyard. And so I I noticedthe, like, the digging up of my
(39:59):
backyard grass.
Like, it's just a lot ofdigging, a lot of there's
something out there, and I knowwe've had possums and things
like that. So there's somethingout there, but I noticed scat or
wildlife poop the other day. AndI was like, huh, like, what is
that? And I looked into it, andand I was like, that's raccoon
poop in my backyard. Nowgranted, they're in my backyard,
not in my house, so I'll takethat for now. So I was it was
(40:22):
just kind of interesting to see.So I'm interested to see how my
grass rebounds in the spring.But then another, I had noticed
another gap observation of just,like, little pellets, and then
the snow allowed me too to get,like, a little more information.
And so I was like, those arerabbits. And I know I had
bunnies in my backyard andrabbits.
Like, that's not surprisingbecause I see them, and they eat
my purple prairie clover in thespring, and that's upsetting.
(40:45):
But it was just kinda cool tosee the evidence of that
wildlife around and and to evenjust be able to, like, document
the activities of them and andto see the squirrels too. Like,
I love watching them hop up anddown our tree and use our
fences, like, nice littlehighways to each other and then
kind of mess with each other.And it's breeding season right
now at least for for oursquirrels, and so some
(41:07):
interesting wildlifeobservations are going on as
well. So, yeah, just kind oflooking out the wildlife and so
and just seeing, you know, whatdo I notice? What are they
doing? Why are they doing it?Asking those questions, and it's
just kinda cool. So not nearlyas cool as beavers, but
generally
Peggy Anesi (41:23):
No. But you know what? But if everybody did that,
think of how in tune they'd bewith their natural resources. We
don't we we don't make time justto note. Right? So that's really
the most that's a critical pieceto future care of the planet.
Abigail Garofalo (41:38):
Alright. Well, this has been another episode of
the Everyday Environmentpodcast. This is our last
episode of season two where wewere all focused about water. If
this is the first episode you'veenjoyed of this series,
definitely go back and check outthe rest of the season. If
you've been with us all season,thanks so much for joining us on
this wild wandering journeythrough the water of Illinois.
(41:59):
We'll be back in the fall forseason three, and definitely
subscribe to our newsletter toget updates of exciting
Extension content in the offseason.
This podcast is a University ofIllinois Extension production,
hosted and edited by AbigailGarofalo, Erin Garrett, and Amy
Lefringhouse.
Matt Wiley (42:20):
University of Illinois Extension.
Welcome to another episode of the Everyday
Environment podcast where weexplore the environment we see
every day. I'm your host,Abigail Garofalo.
Erin Garrett (00:16):
And I'm your cohost, Erin Garrett.
Abigail Garofalo (00:17):
And today, we are here with Peggy Anesi, the
natural resources, environment,and energy educator with Boone,
DeKalb, and Ogle County, here tochat with us about community
engagement and water. Welcome,Peggy.
Peggy Anesi (00:30):
Thank you. It's good to be here with both of
you.
Abigail Garofalo (00:33):
And you're a long term friend of the pod.
We've had you on. I actuallywe're in the process of looking
back at our old archives, andwe're like, Peggy, there she is
back in the day. Doing it whenwe were on our our ten minute,
eight minute podcast realm, andErin and I weren't even here.
And so you're not unfamiliar.You are familiar with the
(00:53):
podcast and and recording withus, and we're glad to have you.
So
Peggy Anesi (00:57):
Long as it's not too familiar. Right? Hopefully,
it doesn't turn people off.
Abigail Garofalo (01:02):
No. I think people are like, Peggy's on
again. Yeah.
Peggy Anesi (01:05):
I have them all fooled.
Abigail Garofalo (01:06):
Well, you've been with us for a long time,
and maybe people know, but maybepeople don't know. And so I also
think, like, the work of anextension educator is just a
little bit ambiguous. People arelike, what does that what do
what do the educators do even?And so in your own
interpretation of what you do,Peggy, tell us a little bit
about yourself and and just thework you do in your role.
Peggy Anesi (01:27):
You know, when you said that, my first thought was,
who am I? Who am I after allthese years? Big picture in a
short amount of time. You know,I started out as a naturalist
because when you're a kid in thesixties and seventies, we spent
so much time outside on theground. Right? And then I became
a scientist when I went tocollege. I studied wildlife,
zoology, later a master's ineducation. So my scientist
(01:47):
person, and now I compare what Ido. I'm really a naturalist
again. And I think I think beingan an extension educator, being
our role to di- you know, makescience digestible, I think is
more of an of a naturalist role.It has a it has that social
capacity that sometimes inscience, you aren't working on
that. You're working on thescience, and your capacity to
share it isn't as comfortable oreasy, but people need that. And
(02:12):
I think that now I'm just gonna,I'm a naturalist. I'm not really
a scientist anymore, but I'msharing what I see. But I also
have to understand that thatsocial capacity of who who we're
talking to to engage them andpay attention instead of just
telling them, you know,everything. So I think that
works. I've been with Extensionfor a quarter of a century. I
(02:32):
think, yeah, definitely wentfrom scientist to to naturalist
in that time and had manydifferent titles.
Erin Garrett (02:38):
That's a great description of what we do. I
think that's, like, maybe thebest description I've heard,
Peggy. I love that so much.
Peggy Anesi (02:44):
Well and I I took a professional development, last
January. I did a lot ofindigenous knowledge
professional development. It wasreally exciting out of some
stuff out of Canada. I wasgetting I like, in my head
argumentative because there'sthey were saying that our, you
know, European settler andscience was different. And
they're now this, I said and I'mthinking, no. I I teach sci- I I
(03:05):
I'm doing what you're doing. I'mdoing what you're doing. Then
that that's when I realized Iwas no longer the research
scientist person, which weabsolutely need. I was the
indigenous knowledge sharingperson, and that's great. They
go together so well. Theprofessional development was
kind of a them and us, differentdifferent, but really, Extension
educators are the perfect blendof science and sharing that
(03:30):
knowledge from a naturalresource perspective.
Abigail Garofalo (03:33):
Science isn't done until it's communicated.
Peggy Anesi (03:35):
Nice. I like that. I'm gonna have to write that
down.
Abigail Garofalo (03:38):
I did not come up with that myself. I stole
that from somewhere else. Sodon't
Peggy Anesi (03:43):
I know, and I never can remember who. It's not
anonymous, but it's a piece tome. That's excellent. That's
that's an excellent way to bookin that.
Erin Garrett (03:50):
Awesome. Well, now that we know a little bit more
about what you do, Peggy, whenwe're talking on this season of
the podcast all about water,we've kind of taken some deep
dives into different topicsabout water, talked about how
communities handle water issues.And today, we're really talking
about how individual peoplecoming together in their
communities can really help beinvolved in their watersheds. So
(04:12):
what drew you to engaging andeducating your community about
watersheds?
Peggy Anesi (04:18):
So recently, I had to talk with my supervisor and,
like, okay. If you're gonna dowater, that's fine. It's
perfect. You know, where did itcome from? Like, trying to build
a legacy statement. Right? And,actually, one of the things that
got me thinking the most and Icannot find it. Maybe you guys
could find it. There was acommercial on television years
and years ago, and it was it wasthe the turn of bottled water
(04:42):
time frame. And there were thesehigh school kids all hanging out
by this flowing beautiful creek.The video was them. They're
looking at the water. They'retouching it. And one one young
man stands up, misterentrepreneur, and he said, I
could I could bottle and sellthis. And the other young man in
the group said, are you crazy?Nobody's gonna buy water. It
moved me. I can't find itanywhere. It's like, did I dream
(05:04):
it? No. I'm pretty sure it was areal commercial, but I cannot
I've searched and searched. Sothat got my focus.
I did grow up in in a rivervalley, very aware of the river,
not as a pollution free zone,but a food zone. A lot of our a
lot of my classmates' friendsworked on the barges. Right? It
was their income. And we had westill had mussel. We called them
clamors, right, that wereharvesting clams for food. In
(05:26):
that area, we used to have backin the before the 1942 when we
started using petroleum forbuttons. We had clamshells all
over the shores punched forbuttons. I never thought
anything of it, but it was allabout economics. Right? It
wasn't about how clean or dirtyit was. And it was the Illinois
River, so it had a whole lotgoing on. And then I read an
article at one point, and I itwas in a really it was a between
(05:47):
the lines thing. And, basically,a lot of companies were buying
land in other countries that hadno petroleum. There was, like,
nothing on the landscape. Theywere buying it because they
would have then water rights tosell it back to those people.
Now I haven't followed up onthat. I have no but it was like,
that's horrible. Right? So nowthere's a control thing going
on, and I'm like, we can'tcontrol water. You know? It's
(06:10):
gonna move and flow.
And one scientific journal outof the US said and I quoted I I
there's a quote. It said, newwater is made daily. And I'm
like, holy cow. Well, I knowthat they were trying to explain
the water cycle, but theyweren't making it digestible.
They just said new water's madeevery day. So let's go do what
we want with that because we'regetting new stuff every day.
They were just explaining theliquid time of the water cycle.
(06:32):
Right? So it just slowly keptbuilding into a concern for
water. It just it's coming, youknow, and then I would get some
support from other journals.Like, this is gonna be the next
best big problem as far as notnot a problem, but it wouldn't
have to be. We just have to caremore. So I just have been coming
back to water over and over. Andfinally now, right, we're seeing
(06:53):
a huge you guys are focused onit. Thank you so much. Our
communities are realizing wateris the number one economic
driver.
Abigail Garofalo (06:59):
It's where a lot of communities settle.
Right? Like, that's where we seewe look at the major cities in
the US, in the world, andthey're all centered around a
body of water somewhere.
Peggy Anesi (07:10):
Because they have to have it, and you have to
drink it. And if you don't havewater, your community doesn't
exist. You could haveeverything, everything. But if
you don't have water, thecommunity doesn't exist. It
can't.
Abigail Garofalo (07:20):
I remember on a smaller scale even when my
first experience with Extensionwas an internship in Cook
County, and I was working withcommunity and school gardens and
learning about, like, how does acommunity garden start? How does
it establish? Things like that.And the biggest issue identified
was, like, well, what's youraccess to water? And so, like,
hydrant keys were, like, areally big deal in Chicago.
(07:40):
Could you get one? Things likethat. And so, like, they're
like, if you don't have a decentaccess to a flow of water, you
like, your community garden isgonna have a really hard time
succeeding. And so just on thatminor scale, right, of, like,
just even just trying to getthis, like, community space
where you're growing things.Don't have water? I don't know
what you're gonna do. Right? Soit's really interesting.
Erin Garrett (08:01):
That commercial that you mentioned reminds me of
the Lorax when they bottle upthe air.
Abigail Garofalo (08:05):
I was thinking that
Erin Garrett (08:06):
and deliver the air. And they're like, who would
buy this? And, like, everyonedoes.
Peggy Anesi (08:10):
Right. I would love to find that commercial and and
use it to teach high schoolstudents because it it was just
it was very clever. It's veryclever. And, you know, and and
you think about, like, whenFlint, Michigan happened, you
know, people thought they weredoing the right thing. They
didn't know that scrubbing thosepipes would release all this
lead, and that took if itdoesn't happen to us, we just
go, oh, poor Flint. Right? Wedidn't get excited. We didn't go
(08:32):
we just went and got a glass ofwater. And it's it's should be a
really good example that and I'msure other I'm sure communities
are, like, looking at theirpipes and trying to find grant
money. I don't doubt thatthey're it made efforts, but I
was working with a five stategroup, the North Central Water
Region Network, and we had ournext grant was a go. The
foundation that we were gonnaget money from said we can't
(08:52):
honor these and honor any grantsbecause Flint might need us. So,
yes, that's where it should goto to help people. But it it
wasn't just Flint. It affected awhole bunch of clean water
actions that myself and manyother groups were probably
trying to get accomplished. Itjust halted it and it for the
right reasons to help people,but we were gonna help other
(09:13):
people too, but it just wasn'tan emergency. So things happen
and and, you know, it's the samewater, same planet, different
inputs, Same water, same planet.So we have to think about which
this podcast, these thingsyou're doing is talking about
those different inputs, right,and how we can support them as a
community and maybe make minorchanges and make big differences
(09:34):
in those inputs.
Abigail Garofalo (09:35):
One thing we talked about in an earlier
podcast when we talked about theChicago River and all the
engineering feats that they didthat they didn't think about,
these are, like, long termchanges that we made to our
drinking water supply or to ourto our water systems that were a
hundred years ago changes thatwe're talking about the
repercussions or even just theeffects in general of that
(09:56):
today. And so what kind of fixeswe have or what kind of
solutions we have to our waterand our community and access and
and things like that. Like,these are not, this is gonna be
a ten year fix or this is gonnabe like, these are gonna be
things that we have to thinkabout on, like, this long term
investment scale, and that's, Ithink, really hard for humans to
think about and invest in. Imean, we we know that based on a
(10:18):
lot of other environmentalissues we see, and it's just
wild, but also so important.Right? Like, we have to have
water.
Peggy Anesi (10:25):
Well and I was checking the dates. Like, I
don't memorize dates. The CleanWater Act. Now I'm older maybe
than you know? But I'm notancient. Right? When I graduated
with my first degree, mybachelor of science degree was
the year of the Clean Water Act.It took that long. And I'm like,
you know? And here we are stillstill trying to help people
(10:47):
understand what I think becausewe focus mostly on industry, got
focused on the situation athand, which was the massive
amounts of pollution and andneed to fix some of that. And we
put regulations for the rightreasons. It's not about
regulating the business, theindustry as much as it is about
preserving the community that'sgoing to work every day to work
(11:10):
there and and to be healthy. ButI'd looked at those dates, and I
was like, it just seems like itshould have been way before my
time, right, that we werefocused on that. But clearly, it
wasn't.
Abigail Garofalo (11:19):
To kinda turn us around a little bit, Peggy,
you've been doing this, like yousaid, for twenty five years.
You've been focusing on varioustopics, but you've really kind
of come to focus on water. Iknow you're like, oh,
Peggy Anesi (11:29):
I think they're gonna be able to hear my face
change, like
Abigail Garofalo (11:32):
Yes. We do constantly have to remind
ourselves audio medium. You'vebeen doing this for so long, and
you've been seeing you've had alot of different opportunities
to engage the community indifferent ways, in all different
stages of of life, in alldifferent stages of community as
well. Right? From fromlegislative professionals to
just adults that come into yournature center, to youth, to,
(11:52):
like, even youth organizing withschools, things like that. I
guess my question for you is Iwould love to hear some of your,
like or even just one of yourmemorable success stories from
your work in communityengagement on watersheds.
Peggy Anesi (12:04):
Success stories. I think seeing a kindergartner
understand the water cycle usingcolored little squares and
traveling around the room andmaking a little bar graph and
realizing they were in the oceana lot. I know it sounds like a
small thing, but just if we canjust start. So, you know, so
every we try to have somethingdifferent for every grade level.
It helps them see.
They don't have to remember,but, you know, we have to learn
(12:25):
things, what, three times. Wehave to hear it more and more.
So in the youth world, I just wefocus on water so much, and we
I'm sitting on the south branchof the Kishwaukee River in
northern Illinois, my naturecenter. If I could throw well
enough, I could hit the waterfrom where I'm sitting, and it's
a class A stream. I put kids inthat water and teach them about
everything in there and theamount of empathy, and then
(12:46):
they'll see other people in theriver during the week of camp
and be very concerned at howthey're treating that water,
physically treating, lifting upa a mussel and just tossing it
back in when they know how toset it back correctly. It's it's
engagement. If you're notengaged, how do you know? Right?
And so taking that a littlefarther and knowing I can't make
a difference from the bottom up,it takes too long.
(13:09):
So last year, was it last year?Or maybe the year be it went
into two years, went into 23,24. I designed a watershed
stewardship for leaders. It's anacademy for your municipalities.
They're reaching out and wannaknow how to help with their
ordinances, but they're notlearning what it is. Right? So
having that happen and havingpeople show up and wanna know
(13:31):
and then having results come outof that was probably the I mean,
I felt like I finally did theone big thing, and now one of my
other counties wants it. Even ifthey don't end up getting it to
fly, I feel like I I conqueredsomething. I I finally cut
through a barrier to get anaverage of 32 people at the
table four times a month apart.They showed up a month apart to
(13:54):
understand what to do and madechanges, tangible changes. They
calibrated their salt trucks.They quit dumping salt right by
the storm drains. They just weredoing it because it was they
were told to do it. They hired apart time watershed person at
the county level to adjust dealwith watershed issues. Where
does that happen? I didn't dothat. I had speakers. Right? I
(14:17):
facilitated. I handed themsomething, but they did it.
And I don't know what happenedif it took twenty five years. I
don't understand what happened,actually. I do kinda know how
how we got people there. I didnot pay them, just so we're
clear. No bribery. I'm justliving off of that still. Right?
And we finished that a year ago,February. We did that, and now
we're ready to start it again.I'm just it's not ego. I thought
(14:40):
about that. It's awe. Like,finally. And if one group
listened, somebody else next tothem because this shouldn't be a
county. It should be regional.Right? Cost should be spread out
regionally. Money is always thebarrier with anything like with
water. Right? You can't raisetaxes that high, but you don't
have the the money regionally.
And in that same county, theynow passed Boone County,
(15:01):
Illinois right up againstWisconsin. I can say this
because I'm so proud. They justpassed. They're gonna have
LIDAR. They're gonna fly theentire county with lidar, which
will do groundwater level checksat up to a thousand feet.
Abigail Garofalo (15:16):
Wow.
Peggy Anesi (15:17):
Almost $500,000, and they passed it. And I did
ask someone at the instigatedthis that was the assessed need
for this. I said, is there anychance we could say that we got
this to happen because of thewatershed leadership? And he
goes, absolutely. That's thefollow up because people voted
against it, but the majority,you know, said yes. And those
people were in the room thatcame and understood.
Abigail Garofalo (15:40):
Yeah. The value was beyond a dollar number
that, like, you could that wascommunicated in your class. So
that way these these decisionmakers who were voting on this
were able to say, like, Iactually can tell you based on
the knowledge that I've gainedhow this is gonna bring value,
and we're gonna get the longterm payoff for this. And they
actually can conceptualize thatas opposed to just being like,
(16:01):
well, yeah, somebody told meit's a long term payoff, but,
like, all I see is the dollar onthe paper. And so getting the
space for those leaders to tosee that, to actually understand
that and to bring that intotheir brains and have that
almost be a lens in theirdecision making is just so
incredible.
That's it's I've been hearingabout that program for the last
year, Peggy, if not longer, andI'm also in awe of it, so.
Peggy Anesi (16:25):
It's its own monster. I just guide it, honest
to gosh. And my programcoordinator did the pretty stuff
that made all the all theagendas look nice. I just yeah.
I'm just really I'm proud ofeverybody who showed up. I'm
over the moon that it workedbecause I feel like that was a a
curtain we just couldn't getthrough if it's not from the
top. So then these children thatwe're seeing that will have this
(16:46):
they won't fight it. Right?They'll come to it and go, yes.
I will keep this going. Soyou're trying to meet people in
that middle space so that it'sdoesn't stop, you know, at some
point.
Abigail Garofalo (16:55):
Yeah.
Peggy Anesi (16:56):
And a lot of and a lot of people come back. I
remember when we learned aboutthe water because we've got them
in the water. Right?
Erin Garrett (17:02):
Mhmm. That's really just inspiring because I
feel like with a lot of bigissues, we kind of can get
discouraged sometimes inreaching adults and say, well,
like, people have their whatthey think about this, and
there's only so much we can doto change people's minds. So we
just have to start with kids andhope that, right, the next
generation can help solve theseissues. But you're working on
(17:23):
both sides of it. Right? And andworking, yes, with youth so that
we do raise the next generationto be more cognizant of their
water and understand thoseissues, but then also working
with leaders to help them,empower them, right, with the
knowledge that they need. Sojust to see that kinda come
together is really awesome.
Abigail Garofalo (17:43):
And to have something that these youth can
look up to as well. Right? Like,they can they can see a goal in
their head. Like, there's atarget now of, like, these is
this is what people are doingbecause we know that doom and
gloom can really, like, dampenan interest. Right? Like, well,
there's nothing I can do becauseall the people making decisions
that I'm gonna have to clean uplater, like, why? And so having
(18:03):
that two, like, dual endedapproach is just so valuable.
Peggy Anesi (18:07):
I just had a group on Sunday. I came out and met
with the the environmental clubfrom one of our local high
schools. And I first said, youknow, we don't have a lot of
time together, but I'd reallylike to get to know you. And
there was maybe 10, you know, 10kids. And they introduced
themselves, told me what I said,then tell me what you're
thinking you'd like to do. Oneof them just was, accepted the
day before at at U of I. And shewas doing she was interested in
(18:31):
urban landscape designsustainability. I'm like, yes.
And another girl was betweengeology and something else. And
I said, well, if I could votefor you right now, what you you
can do those things.
I'd vote for the geology andgroundwater. You'll never be
unemployed because this is ournext big issue. People are
talking about setting up youknow? There's a a word I
couldn't think of this morningwhen I was just thinking about
(18:52):
this. But, basically,groundwater districts, they're
trying to set them up and havecontrol, but the water never
stops moving. You know? Youdon't own water no more than you
own the air you're breathing.Right? You can write policy to
protect it for you. But I said,you know, you're gonna you'd be
employed forever, and you getpaid a lot of money for it
because it is gonna be the next.I mean, we have our population
(19:15):
is too high for it not to be,and there's nothing wrong with
having a high population. I'veread and and heard that we do
have enough resources to sustain8,000,000 people on the planet.
It's it's, as we know, not allspread evenly.
Abigail Garofalo (19:28):
Yeah.
Peggy Anesi (19:29):
Yeah. But we can do this, but managing it and trying
to control it isn't gonna beit's just gonna start being team
sports again. Right? Well, wedon't want that. We don't want
we want it regional. We wannatake care of it together. Don't
start putting, you know, lineswhere you can't you're that's
like a moving target. You can'tdo that. You know, the Earth
(19:49):
doesn't know there's countylines. Right? Ordinances should
be regional based on watersheds.Not in my lifetime or not in my
career is this gonna happen, butthat's what happened up where we
did the one county. One of theboard members that disagreed and
didn't vote for that to thatlidar to happen, I agree with
him because it shouldn't be onecounty. He said, other counties
around us, it should be regionalmoney. We're you know, they're
(20:11):
regionally, they should all beputting in money to see because
this he understands. There's nocounty lines underground. And I
told him, I said, I agree withyou, and he goes, you agree with
me. I'm like, I do. But I'm gladit passed, you know, because we
can show. This is a showcase.And we're only that that's only
the, what, the third county westof the Great Lake in the middle
of the state. You know? So thereis more to do, but steps are
(20:34):
steps are happening, so that'sexciting.
Erin Garrett (20:36):
So we talked about some successes, and we've
already kind of talked aboutsome challenges that we've seen.
But what are some challengesthat you've experienced in
getting communities involved incaring about their watershed?
And then if you have, you know,successes of how you've overcome
them, which we've already sharedsome, you can share those as
well.
Peggy Anesi (20:53):
I think the big thing, and I'll just one thing.
Getting for the watershedleadership one, we had their
peers invite them to come.Because Extension for the even
my entire career, it's still thebest kept secret. We work so
hard and do so much good work,but we do it with so many
partners. We kinda get dilutedin the mix. Right? Some people
don't even realize that a lot ofwhat's happening is Extension.
(21:16):
But what we did is we made us wejust made a small committee
based on this assess need to dowatershed education at this
level and had them tell us whoto invite. And we sent the
invites and said, you've beenchosen by your peers. They don't
know us. We're doing all thelifting behind the scenes. We
don't have to have our face outthere. But if we put their faces
they know and respect, and bygolly, 39 people registered and
(21:40):
32 average at the meetings atthe sessions. And I will do it
again just like that. And I eventold my next county, I said, I'm
here when you're ready to start,but you'll need to bring me a
committee of your of your localcommunity members. I can't do
this without their face andsupport because that's what made
it happen. Who knew after allthese years that's what, you
know, what we needed to do?
Abigail Garofalo (22:01):
Well, you have to have some kind of buy in.
Right? Like, it's if there's nobuy in, then my so and so
doesn't think it's important.Why would I think it's
important? Right? And so therewas this value communication
that was occurring that wasreally, really cool.
Peggy Anesi (22:14):
And that's with any program. You see you see
schoolyard spaces, gardens, ornatural spaces. And if the
janitor and maintenance peoplearen't on board, they don't
last. You know? And here we wejust had to get the right mix,
and somehow that was like Idon't know if it was out of here
we go again, and I how am Igonna get these people? Tell you
what, I don't wanna do it. Youget it. You get them. You know?
And it worked, and they didpick. We had to, you know, we
(22:37):
had to make sure they understoodthat if too many people showed
up from the board, it could be aquorum. So let's you know, here.
You're all invited. First come,first serve. We're only taking
so many. Oh my gosh. You know?Yeah. It was pretty cool. I was
pretty impressed.
And even the people on thecommittee, when it was over, you
know, we'd done our fourth one.The engineer said, you know, he
was all for it, but he didn'tthink it was gonna work as well
(22:58):
as it did. He thought there wastoo much redundancy. But if you
don't start the next session,bring in the last session. Start
the next session, bring in thelast two sessions. And he didn't
he but he doesn't program. Youknow? That's why we do what we
do. He didn't have faith in thestyle of programming and how to
program for public audience, inthis case, leaders. And, he
goes, boy, I didn't think thatwas gonna work that well. But
(23:20):
he's he never said that throughthe whole process that he didn't
have faith in it. And thenafter, he's like, which makes me
now understand what I have toexplain to the next group. You
know? You may not see thisworking, but it worked really
well. We've tested it. We'vepiloted it.
Abigail Garofalo (23:35):
That's what I try and communicate that to
people all the time. You know?They're like, well, I don't I I
have the information. I justneed to get it out there. And I
was like, and that is what we dobest. Like, we are really good
at figuring like, we'd spend alot of time just thinking about,
like, what is the best way? Whatis the science backed way to
even just communicate thisinformation? Not just the
information is science backed,but, like, what does the science
(23:56):
say about how people learn?Right? And the best way that
people get this information andthe best way to change behaviors
or attitudes. I feel likeExtension is really good at
evaluating that and saying,like, we know that changing
attitudes and behaviors can'tjust come from me telling you
information. You know that youshould eat so many veggies a
day. You know that you shouldexercise thirty minutes a day.
(24:19):
How many of you all do that?Right? We don't.
So just knowing informationdoesn't change behavior. And so
us as Extension professionals,like, we know, like and we a lot
of us are really good at this,and that's why we do our jobs.
And that's why Peggy's been inher role for so long because
she's good at it of, like, howdo we change attitudes? And
there are different strategiesfor doing that and how do how we
(24:40):
communicate the information, howoften we communicate the issue
information. The methods inwhich that's done is all very
carefully thought about with ouraudiences and who the audience
should be in the first place andgetting to the root of of where
behavior can actually change.And I'm really nerding out
because that's what my master'swas about was, like, how people
learn, and I love seeing thedifferent ways that we do that
(25:02):
to really change thoseattitudes.
Peggy Anesi (25:04):
A funny example that is just it's cute, and it's
it was harmless because it wassixth graders. I spent a day
with every sixth grader at thistime back when it happened in in
DeKalb School District, which isour largest school district. So
I saw so many sixth graders, andI was teaching watershed before
anybody was teaching watershed.And I decided to make it fun and
(25:25):
funny. Instead of just holding afunnel, I talked about a toilet
bowl. Right? Because it'sholding water. It's a watershed,
and all the water that goes init goes down. Right? It was the
perfect example. And what ifyour parent goes in with a can
of Lysol to clean the seat andspray it? Does all the spray
just touch the the seat? Andthey're like, no. It goes all
over the room. I said, does itgo in the water? Yes. It was the
(25:47):
best day. Everybody was on. Theywere they were laughing. I'm
like, it's funny.
Right? Anything icky you put inthere, and they're like, oh, you
know, it was just a great day.Every thank you note I got.
Thank you for teaching us thattoilets are a watershed. I don't
think it worked. And I thinksome of them probably knew I
think some of them probablymeant that they weren't you they
weren't Extension educators yet.I think some of them meant that
(26:11):
that example. Right? That thatis
Abigail Garofalo (26:12):
Yeah.
Peggy Anesi (26:13):
But they just thanks for teaching us that
toilets are watersheds. I went,yeah, that backfired. But they
weren't going to let theirparent put junk down the toilet.
Cleaning stuff should be on arag and wiped, not poured into
the water. At least I'm surethat got through.
Abigail Garofalo (26:29):
We've been talking about, like, over time,
have you seen any communityattitudes and behaviors towards
watersheds change over yourcareer?
Peggy Anesi (26:36):
Kids are always the same. They're excited. They're
interested. Water's fun. Wateryou know? That's whether they
take it with them, who knows?But they all get some form of
water education through activityand kinesthetic learning and but
there has been a big shiftbecause of watershed planning
has gotten bigger when peopleare realizing that they need to
take care of their personal fullwatershed because whatever's in
(26:56):
it is theirs.
Locally, I'm an associatedirector on our soil and water
conservation district board. Weare trying to do all the I think
they're HUC 12 hydrologic unit.What is a HUC? I can't remember.
I'll have to figure that outagain. But, basically, the
Kishwaukee River size, we aredoing all eight watersheds of
that size in our county usingEPA grants, local funding, and
(27:21):
focusing on education. We do abus tour of each one. The
community is invited. They doamazing stuff. My part is
because I work with them andhave a an agreement to be their
educator, I do education. Right?So we get to count our education
for the grant. And when they'rehere on the bus tour, this last
one, I did education here in thebuilding.
But seeing that more and morepeople, more and more groups,
(27:45):
whether they are the countythemselves or an organized
grassroots group, they arebuilding. Watershed management
plans are building. People areseeing very much more than when
I started. When when I tried toget people to do water education
with me at the adult level,people were like, why? And now
here we are. I have people thattook the master watershed
steward program, and I did thepilot for Illinois this last
(28:06):
year. They wanna do more. Wherecan I help? So we give them
places to go do it. We're notthey're not volunteering for us,
but they wanna participate. Someof them wanna help the next
class and and be a part of thenext class as a support person.
So that interest has never beenthere at that level. So we're
starting to do enoughprogramming. It's on us. We're
doing more. So they're seeing itfrom Extension's perspective
(28:28):
with all these different things,and they're seeing it in these
organizations that are like, wegotta do this. Because quite
frankly, soil and waterconservation districts have the
same cloak. We're sharing thatcloak of invisibility. We do all
they do all good work, and yetuntil it's a problem, we're not
paying attention.
Erin Garrett (28:43):
Mhmm.
Abigail Garofalo (28:44):
Who do we call? I don't know. Well, now
it's a problem. Let's justGoogle who comes first.
Peggy Anesi (28:49):
Yeah. Let's hope it's Extension. Right? Either
answer it or get them to theright space. And I think people
need to know that Extension isnot is also not, you know, the
know all stop site, but our jobis to find that and to help you,
with resources. Right? If wedon't have those resources, we
usually know someone who does orcan get you there.
Abigail Garofalo (29:06):
That's usually my standard answer as well. I
may not know, but I know someonewho does.
Peggy Anesi (29:11):
Mhmm. Yeah.
Erin Garrett (29:13):
I'm willing to find out. Yes. Alright, Peggy.
As we kind of start to wrap uptoday, are there any upcoming
projects or initiatives thatyou're particularly excited
about that you'd like to sharewith our audience?
Peggy Anesi (29:26):
When you said it, I decided I'd wait till the first
thing that popped in my head,and it's my paddle and learn
year two two point o. So Istarted last year with a grant
doing what I call the paddle andlearn, and it's taking teachers,
anybody K through 12. And lastyear, I actually had a high
school counselor sign up, and hewas the most engaged student of
all of them and took it back tohis science teachers within his
(29:48):
building. So but, basically,it's a professional development
opportunity for teachers up herein my unit. And day one, they
get certified by an organizationon in kayaks on a little pond
over in, in one of the townsright by here in DeKalb, and
then we learn all week. The keyis I told them, this is not your
usual teacher workshop. I'm notgonna tell you how to teach.
(30:09):
That would be ridiculous. I amnot a public school teacher. I'm
a professional educator, but Idon't do your job. But I I'm
gonna teach you all aboutwatersheds as a community member
because this will give you themost support to go in and be
willing to teach watersheds toyour children. And then if you
want me to help you, I will comeup with activities. But that was
the one thing they were shockedbecause usually that's like, and
(30:31):
here's this lesson you could do.And here what do those do? You
guys, they'll sit on a shelf ifand if you give them a whole
book, they do the ones they doin the workshop.
So I would rather open theirmind and spend we spent three
full days learning from myself,from a soil scientist, from
water scientists, from ahydrologist till they were aware
as a person in their communityabout their watershed. And then
(30:53):
we paddled the Rock River so wecould get more of the best
management practices or not. Sobookend to bookend, they
learned. And in the water here,they got to study mussels from a
guy who's a mussel specialist inour area, and they got to do
macroinvertebrates. And then itwas so exciting, and I'm gonna I
get I got grant money again.We're gonna repeat it. Now I
(31:15):
know to have some certainspeakers take more breaks.
Right? Because people are evenmy speakers came back to hear
the other speakers. So this isbuilding this ripple effect.
The best quote, and I'll leaveit with this, was day two. So we
had the the certification day,then we had a whole day of
education starting withhydrology. Day two for learning
(31:36):
was Tuesday morning. I'll justsay Becky came in, fourth grade
teacher, got her bagel. I fedthem well. Got her bagel, got
her juice, sat down with herfruit and bagel, and went, so
Peggy. I'm like, oh, here itgoes. Because it was an all day
hardcore learning, and it wasnot typical teacher workshoppy
stuff. She goes, so Peggy. Isaid, yeah. She goes, until
yesterday. This is a seasonedteacher teaching fourth grade
(31:59):
where human impact is a focus.She said, until yesterday, I
didn't even know what awatershed was, let alone that I
lived in one. So thank you.Throw the mic. Right?
Abigail Garofalo (32:09):
That's like your heart just, like, flutters
when you hear that.
Peggy Anesi (32:12):
Because we're doing something they've never I'm not
gonna hand them a lesson even ifI know it's good, but if but I
opened it up. And so and I alsosaid, you know, field trip. Come
up to my center. Part of whatthey get for coming to the
professional development is afree field trip for their kids.
So we can embed all that samewater education for them, and
they can use it as it. And thenone of the teachers, when we got
out of the kayak on the lastday, I didn't see him after
(32:34):
that. Right? They already did,you know, the eval and such with
it would be online, and thenthey had to do their one for the
for the professionaldevelopment. One of the fourth
grade teacher, in a group whowas the science person, she
said, well, she's taking off herlife jacket. She was like, yes.
I'm gonna have to spend some ofsummer rewriting the science
curriculum. And I'm like, may Iask why? She goes, well, I
(32:54):
usually use California mudslidesto explain erosion, but now I'm
gonna talk about cover crops anddifferent things that have to do
with our area here, you know,different best management
practices. I'm like, score.Right? Check.
So we get to do it again, andthis time it's not a pilot. I
have I it's very stressful whenyou do one of those as you guys
know for the first time. And nowit's gonna be like, this is how
(33:15):
it is. You know? So veryexcited.
Abigail Garofalo (33:18):
Whenever I do a program I've been doing for
years, I actually feel like anunreasonable amount of stress
that I don't I can't quiteplace. And I'm like, is it just
I, like, know what I'm doing? Idon't understand that feeling.
And so I hope you don't havethat this season because
Peggy Anesi (33:31):
I have it all the time, and I've had it for twenty
five years. And I think it'sbecause we care. We always wanna
make it better. And sometimes wedon't have the time to upgrade
or tweak it, and so we getstressed because we really
thought of things we could'vedone even better, but they don't
know. They're still learningreally great information.
Abigail Garofalo (33:48):
Well, Peggy, thank you so much for sharing
your knowledge about communityengagement. It's such a wealth
and such a a breadth ofknowledge between all of the
different audiences you addressand the different topics. And, I
mean, did you ever think, youknow, studying your wildlife
classes back in the day thatyou'd be this leading community
engagement expert on water? So
Peggy Anesi (34:10):
Of anything. I didn't wanna talk to people. Are
you kidding? I wanted to do I Ithought I'd be in the field
working with animals and not andby myself. I'm never by myself.
Abigail Garofalo (34:19):
Yep. You you're I mean, even always
surrounded by animals as well,but you're always surrounded by
something.
Peggy Anesi (34:24):
Yep. That's true too.
Abigail Garofalo (34:26):
Now we are going to finish today's episode
with everyday observation wherewe highlight the mundane and
normal of our environment thatis actually really interesting.
Erin, you wanna kick us off?
Erin Garrett (34:36):
Sure. So as we've been recording this season, you
probably heard a lot of us,mention we're recording in the
wintertime, so some of oureveryday observations don't
necessarily match the seasonwe're in now. But I wanted to
share just kind of a crazyweather day that we had this
winter. So with me being in infar, far, far southern Illinois,
(34:58):
we had, some freezing rain comethrough and woke up and all the
trees were covered in ice. Andthat same day, we had a
thunderstorm come through andmelt all of the ice. It was very
strange to have ice outside andthen hear a thunder and go, what
is that sound? That shouldn'thappen in the same day. And then
(35:20):
overnight, we had snow again. Soit was just like a crazy day of
we had no idea what was goingon. I was very fortunate to be
able to just be in my house andjust watch it the whole day and
not have to travel anywhere. Butthat was something I had not
experienced before was freezingrain, a thunderstorm, and snow
in the same day. So it was justkind of a crazy weather
(35:41):
phenomenon that was kinda coolto experience, to be honest with
you. But it was just veryinteresting. So I just wanted to
kinda highlight that on thepodcast.
Abigail Garofalo (35:50):
Yeah. We're gonna throw that clip on over to
Duane and see if he can justwrite about it in his weather
blog and just be like
Peggy Anesi (35:56):
Right? Yeah. The perfect the perfect mix.
Abigail Garofalo (36:00):
Amazing. Wonderful. Well, Peggy, what's
your everyday observation?
Peggy Anesi (36:05):
So I got to spend a little bit of time. I'm getting
ready to do a big presentation,and it's on beavers. And I
decided because I like beaversbe have become very popular with
what they're, you know, they'redoing what they do. And please
remember, beavers don't know wecare. Right? And I got to go see
a spot in one of our localforest preserves with the
ecologist. We looked at it on amap. I could not believe it. The
(36:28):
beaver are taking it's like it'sa drainage creek, right, from
from tiles from agriculture. Butthey're taking advantage of when
it gets high, and they've madethis pass over. They're berming.
They're swimming tunnels andkicking mud and making monstrous
berms as big as what humanscould make to so when the creek
goes up, it floods and makes apool. And in that pool are sand
(36:49):
are sand willows, which theylove, but they saw them all you
know, they chewed them all off.And whether they know it or not,
when they do that, all thesucker shoots come up. So
they've got a field of food withthese soft tender tidbits, and
they like, one of them is, like,square. Like, they made a, like,
a rice field.
So we got to go out there whenit was frozen last week and walk
on the ice and get to all thesespaces. So we had this huge cool
(37:11):
discussion as they're doing itto every living thing, plant or
animal. It has to all they wannado is eat enough to reproduce,
right, and keep their populationgoing. So we were talking about,
like, not being able to let itgo because it's heading toward
this remnant habitat. The bestway to see what was here or is
here is to have that remnant. Sohow do you allow them to do what
they do without losing aremnant? And and then they
(37:34):
created this flooded space thatshouldn't have been, and then we
had this beautiful excess oftadpoles, they told me. So now
if you're having a populationdecrease in an amphibian oh my
gosh. My world was, like, soconvoluted. I couldn't even
write it down. I was sooverwhelmed with thought. You
know? So, yeah, it was just soimpressive. It was just so
impressive to see. We know theydo stuff. I didn't know they did
(37:58):
large scale activity to providefor themselves by berming, and
they made pass throughs. Like,you could just walk right over
where they would have swam over,walk on the ice where they and
it's channeled, like, straightand pushed. It's incredible.
Abigail Garofalo (38:11):
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like farming. Like,
it's like, that's wild.
Peggy Anesi (38:15):
They're farming food for themselves. Mhmm.
Rodent agriculture. Right?
Abigail Garofalo (38:20):
Weirdly playing that in my brain, Peggy.
I'm blown away.
Peggy Anesi (38:23):
That stall in your voice is the awe. And they don't
even know who we are, what weare, or that we care. They're
just doing what they know how todo, and it's for as small as
their brain must be, it'simpressive. And they used to be
diurnal, but the pressures weretoo high of getting, you know,
consumed and used for pelts andsuch. They're nocturnal. They've
(38:44):
just they they have the factthat they can do that, but they
aren't thinking. We cannotanthropomorphize this. They are
not going well today. I'm notgoing to go out in in the
daylight because I could getharmed. You know, they're not
it's just unnatural.
Abigail Garofalo (38:56):
Yeah. Selective pressures to have
behaviors in a certain way andalso to the successes of of the
ones that could breathe.
Peggy Anesi (39:04):
And to solve situations you need to be better
by making a berm and making aflooded field to get the right
food. Alright. I'm done. I know.
Abigail Garofalo (39:12):
Yeah. If you all need to pause the episode,
that's
Peggy Anesi (39:15):
Take a deep breath.
Abigail Garofalo (39:16):
To to take a breath because that's how I
might need it. Mine is much lessexciting. It's not nearly as
cool. I feel like I'm like, canwe end it now? No. But I'll
share. I am just like I I amthinking truly about, like,
everyday observation and just,like, what is, like what do I
see every day? And I just lovemy backyard, and I go out there
just, like, missing summer andspring, thinking, like, are they
(39:38):
gonna come up? And, like, when'sgonna when are things gonna come
up? But there's still life outthere. And so it was really
exciting to see with the, I havequite a bit of raccoon activity
in my backyard. And so myeveryday observation is about
poop and scat, because that'show I know, like, what's in my
backyard. And so I I noticedthe, like, the digging up of my
(39:59):
backyard grass.
Like, it's just a lot ofdigging, a lot of there's
something out there, and I knowwe've had possums and things
like that. So there's somethingout there, but I noticed scat or
wildlife poop the other day. AndI was like, huh, like, what is
that? And I looked into it, andand I was like, that's raccoon
poop in my backyard. Nowgranted, they're in my backyard,
not in my house, so I'll takethat for now. So I was it was
(40:22):
just kind of interesting to see.So I'm interested to see how my
grass rebounds in the spring.But then another, I had noticed
another gap observation of just,like, little pellets, and then
the snow allowed me too to get,like, a little more information.
And so I was like, those arerabbits. And I know I had
bunnies in my backyard andrabbits.
Like, that's not surprisingbecause I see them, and they eat
my purple prairie clover in thespring, and that's upsetting.
(40:45):
But it was just kinda cool tosee the evidence of that
wildlife around and and to evenjust be able to, like, document
the activities of them and andto see the squirrels too. Like,
I love watching them hop up anddown our tree and use our
fences, like, nice littlehighways to each other and then
kind of mess with each other.And it's breeding season right
now at least for for oursquirrels, and so some
(41:07):
interesting wildlifeobservations are going on as
well. So, yeah, just kind oflooking out the wildlife and so
and just seeing, you know, whatdo I notice? What are they
doing? Why are they doing it?Asking those questions, and it's
just kinda cool. So not nearlyas cool as beavers, but
generally
Peggy Anesi (41:23):
No. But you know what? But if everybody did that,
think of how in tune they'd bewith their natural resources. We
don't we we don't make time justto note. Right? So that's really
the most that's a critical pieceto future care of the planet.
Abigail Garofalo (41:38):
Alright. Well, this has been another episode of
the Everyday Environmentpodcast. This is our last
episode of season two where wewere all focused about water. If
this is the first episode you'veenjoyed of this series,
definitely go back and check outthe rest of the season. If
you've been with us all season,thanks so much for joining us on
this wild wandering journeythrough the water of Illinois.
(41:59):
We'll be back in the fall forseason three, and definitely
subscribe to our newsletter toget updates of exciting
Extension content in the offseason.
This podcast is a University ofIllinois Extension production,
hosted and edited by AbigailGarofalo, Erin Garrett, and Amy
Lefringhouse.
Matt Wiley (42:20):
University of Illinois Extension.
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