Rain gardens and nerding out over native plants

Join the Everyday Environment team as we chat with Layne Knoche, Stormwater Outreach Associate, to explore the importance of rain gardens and how they help manage stormwater, support biodiversity, and improve water quality. We chat about some good design tips and ideas, the basic make-up of a rain garden and spend some extra time really diving into our obsession with native plants. 

Resources mentioned in the pod: 

• CoCoRaHS community science project
• Red Oak Rain Garden
• Red Oak Rain Garden Resources
• Illinois Groundwork Plant Finder
• Lawn to Lake Midwest

Episode Transcript

Erin (00:06):
Welcome to another episode of the Everyday Environment
podcast where we explore theenvironment we see every day.
I'm your host, Erin Garrett.

Abigail (00:13):
And I'm your cohost, Abigail Garofalo.

Erin (00:16):
And today, we are here with Lane Knoche, and Layne is
an Extension Stormwater OutreachAssociate for Illinois Indiana
Sea Grant, and Illinoisextension. Welcome, Lane.

Layne (00:26):
Hi, everyone.

Erin (00:27):
We're really excited to have you on the podcast as a
fellow native plant nature nerd.We chat about native plants
nearly every podcast episode, sowe're super excited to have you
on as a guest today.

Layne (00:39):
Yeah. Excited to be here.

Erin (00:40):
So as we get started, we really like to dive into what
our guests do, and we all havefun job titles. So, Layne, can
you tell us a little bit aboutthe work that you do?

Layne (00:52):
Yeah. Of course. So, as Erin said, I am a stormwater
outreach associate with IllinoisExtension and Illinois Indiana
Sea Grant. I work a lot withgreen stormwater infrastructure
programs, particularly with raingardens and water quality. I'm
surrounded by just an amazingteam.
I work with Eliana Brown, isExtension's storm water and

(01:14):
water quality specialist, andanother outreach associate,
Maddie Kraft, and a lot ofreally amazing students on our
team from the University ofIllinois who we have the
pleasure of of having workedwith us. You know, we love
teaming up with Extension andcommunity partners from around
the state, including both ofyou, to tackle those kinds of

(01:36):
local flooding issues, improvewater quality, and really to
inspire and educate people aboutsustainable practices.

Abigail (01:43):
Awesome. So we invited you on specifically to talk
about a particular sustainablepractice, which is rain gardens.
So let's just start out reallybasic. What is a rain garden?

Layne (01:55):
Alright. So in its most basic form, a rain garden is a
shallow bowl shaped landscape.It collects and absorbs storm
water and snow melt from areasthat are surrounding it. And I
like to think of it as kind of anatural sponge. It captures
water that would otherwise runoff of hard surfaces, like roads

(02:16):
or rooftops.
So as water flows from thosehard surfaces, it picks up and
carries pollutants into ourwater bodies, so our rivers and
lakes, usually throughtraditional gray storm water
infrastructure such as stormsewers. Rain gardens soak up
that water. They filter itthrough the soil, they filter it

(02:36):
through the plants, and in turn,they reduce flooding and
minimize the quantity of stormwater that reaches often what
are already overburdened stormsewer systems. On top of this,
they provide habitat for localwildlife, they recharge
groundwater, and you could goeven into carbon sequestration
with these things. They'rereally impressive landscape

(02:58):
features.

Erin (02:59):
I love it. I love the reference to it being a sponge.
I think that's a great visualfor a lot of people to think
about, like, soaking that waterup and keeping it in place.
Right? And then, like, having itfilter down instead of away off
of our landscape. Right? It'strying to, like, hold it in
place. So I really like thatvisual for sure.

(03:19):
This is obviously our waterseason. A lot of our guests have
mentioned rain gardens as apractice. Why are we talking
about rain gardens in particularin this season where we're
focusing on water?

Layne (03:32):
This is a really good question. I think that it's
really appropriate to talk aboutrain gardens because they
protect water. You know, thisseason is all about water. Rain
gardens are are there to protectit. They they prevent
pollutants, as I mentioned, fromreaching rivers, lakes, and
streams.
They help to manage storm water,which is becoming a bigger
challenge with urbanization andextreme weather. And rain

(03:56):
gardens go beyond just solvingwater related problems. They
highlight the connection betweenhow we care for our landscapes,
like in our in our own spaces,and the health of our waterways.
There's a really greatconnection there with with
installing rain gardens.

Abigail (04:12):
A lot of people, like, we had like, oh, it's just my
yard. What does it have to dowith anything? And it kind of
builds that larger communitysense of like Yeah. Tackling a
challenge.

Layne (04:21):
Yeah. Absolutely. Talking about community scale, is
something that's reallyimportant when we think about
rain garden installation. Youknow, one rain garden in one
person's yard isn't necessarilygoing to solve a community wide
flash flooding issue. But whenwe think of these collectively,
when we think about building anetwork of these kinds of

(04:41):
infrastructure, you can reallyhave incredible impacts and we
see it happening in Illinoisneighborhoods.

Abigail (04:49):
Very cool. And so when we think about our rain gardens,
you know, we're obviouslyputting plants in these gardens.
And on this podcast, we lovenative garden we love native
plants. We're big fans overhere, especially if you're a
long time listener, you're like,no surprise, we're gonna talk
about native plants. How donative plants support rain

(05:10):
gardens?

Layne (05:11):
Well, native plants are really great for rain gardens,
and I'm glad that that we at atExtension really love talking
about this because they reallyare applicable in so many of of
our environmental kind offocused projects. But they
really are great for for raingardens. A lot of our Midwestern
native plants have deep and orextensive root systems that help

(05:32):
to stabilize soil. They help theplant itself withstand extreme
weather events, like heavy rainor drought. And these root
systems also help to improvewater infiltration.
So as roots grow and they die inthe soil, they open up pore
spaces That allows more water toinfiltrate into the ground. And

(05:52):
you know, on top of all of that,we've got our support for local
wildlife. For instance,milkweed, of course, it's
connection with the monarchbutterfly. You know, even
grasses, switchgrass is is onethat I really enjoy using. They
provide habitat year round, andthey also add aesthetic
structure to a garden as well.

Erin (06:11):
Grasses are awesome. I have to give a plug. Native
grasses really overlooked in alot of landscape settings, but
gaining popularity. And so I'dlove including them because it's
really easy to focus on all thecolors, right, of all the
flowers. But if you want somestructure that's there, you
know, kind of throughout theseasons, grasses are a great

(06:32):
choice.

Abigail (06:32):
Yeah. I think it's not always like a one to one, right,
like native plant versus nonnative are always gonna tell you
exact like do exactly what youwant. Right? And but it's a good
categorization to like be like,okay, if it is native, it's
probably going to have thisdeeper root system. It's going
to be a better adapted.

(06:52):
It's going to have this wildlifevalue of the native Illinois
wildlife that's going to add toit, to this system. And so it's,
you know, you can go non native,but I always say, like, do a lot
more research then. I mean, itmight be a little it's a little
easier to kind of, like,generally apply to native. Now
there are non or there arenatives that you're like, maybe
we don't wanna plant that onejust because it can be not the

(07:16):
best fit for a managed space.Right?
But it is definitely you have alittle easier of a time working
with your native species than anon native that could become a
problem, or is maybe just likenot gonna you you don't know if
it provides all those benefitsthat a native could.

Layne (07:37):
Yeah. Without going too deep into design just yet, I
want to talk about a speciesthat I think is is really
interesting for both of yourpoints here. There is a species
that we have used at the Red OakRain Garden, which is Extensions
demonstration rain gardenlandscape. It's on the
University of Illinois campus.And in the basin of that rain

(08:00):
garden, we used a species ofsedge called Emory's sedge,
Carex emoryi.
And that is, as we have learned,one of those species that is
better for the, how do I saythis, the non designed
landscape. It is a little bit ofan aggressive native species.

(08:21):
Make sure that we have adistinction. It is not an
invasive species, it is anaggressive native species. But
that plant does a phenomenal jobat soaking up water.
We planted a couple hundred ofthem in our very large rain
garden and just this pastsummer, I was curious to see

(08:41):
what those root systems lookedlike within our own soil. And I
mentioned that rain gardens arelike a natural sponge. When you
cut into the soil and check outa cross section of Emery's sedge
roots, you can really understandwhy these things work as a
sponge. It even looks like asponge. The root systems are so

(09:03):
extensive, they're so dense,they soak up so much water that
they look like a sponge.
It's really fascinating to me.You can shake the soil off, and
it looks like you could just,you know, take a little clump of
it back to your kitchen sink anddo your dishes.

Erin (09:16):
That's crazy.

Layne (09:18):
It it was really impressive. Yeah. It's five
years of growth, and yeah, it'sjust, it's really impressive.
And one of the interestingthings about, you know, we're
talking about native plants andtheir root systems, You have
compass plant that can sendroots 15 feet into the soil.
Right?
Like, just incredible to thinkabout. Sedges typically are not

(09:39):
going to be sending roots 15feet into the ground. They're
gonna kind of stay closer tothat, you know, twelve, fifteen
inch depth, If if even that. Youknow, I think about the sedge
that I dug up, which is in a anengineered soil, which you know,
kind of allowed for the roots togrow a little bit faster than

(10:00):
than maybe a native soil wouldhave. But So when we when we cut
into that that Emery sedge, wehad maybe eight inches or so of
root of root depth, but it wasvery dense root systems.
It wasn't, you know, just alittle strand of root here,
little strand of root there. Itwas a dense mat of really

(10:24):
impressive root system that,again, looks like something that
you could just take from thesoil and take it into your your
kitchen, shake the the soil offbefore you go inside maybe, and
do your dishes with it. Reallycool plant. That makes I mean, I
love thinking about that plantand about like the reason for
that kind of adaptation. Right?Like, it's a wet loving plant.

(10:46):
It usually probably lives in,like, sometimes flooded soils,
basins probably. And so, like,what like, that root system is
probably very advantageous forit to make sure, A, it's, like,
stuck there and has it can'tjust be like a few, otherwise
it'll wash away. It's gotta bekind of really there and also
really good at kind of gettingthat water up. Yeah. I mean, our

(11:08):
wet loving plants tend to have ashallower root system because
they don't have to reach downinto the soil. Like a, I
mentioned compass plant earlier.Compass plant is kind of an
upland prairie species. It's nottypically going to be found, you
know, growing in a swamp. Andtherefore, it needs to have
those roots that can reallyreach down and soak water up

(11:29):
from deep in the earth, withouteven getting into the fire
resistance of a species likethat.

Erin (11:35):
Lane, I'm really curious. We're chatting about different
types of native plants. Do youhave a favorite native plant?

Layne (11:42):
I do. I do have a favorite native plant. It
changes every year. That that'show I do it, you know. That that
keeps my my mind broad.
I think that my favorite nativespecies of of this year is
probably Bradbury's monarda.Monarda bradburiana. It is a

(12:03):
lovely, lovely addition to kindof those moderate conditioned
gardens. It can tolerate a bitof sun, it can tolerate a bit of
shade, it can tolerate somedroughts, it can tolerate some
rain. So it's pretty friendly inthat way.
Speaking of friendly, I don'tfind it nearly as aggressive as
some of the other Monardas. Iactually don't grow some of them

(12:26):
because I don't have a lot oftime to go out in the spring and
chop the the bee balm, themonardas out from places where
they have moved into. I don'ttend to have that problem with
Bradbury's monarda. Usuallystays kind of in its little
clump, stays shorter than someof the other bee balms as well.

(12:46):
Lovely bloom display happensjust a little bit earlier than
than the wild bee balm that thatwe see often in our in our
prairies.
It also has some really greatseasonal interest. It has some
fall color on it, and then thosethose little balls from what's
left of the flower, I usuallyleave those up over the
wintertime, and they just looklovely when snow falls on them.

(13:10):
Really friendly growing withlike prairie dropseed too.
That's kind of my combinationthat I've been doing. Oh.

Abigail (13:16):
Bring a landscape architect on, they tell you,
they're like, here's the comboof the growing and the
management strategy in which Ilike about this play. It's
hilarious. I love it.

Layne (13:24):
They grow really well together. Throw in some
penstemon for a little bit ofadditional spring color in
there, and and honestly, I justI love that combo.

Erin (13:33):
That's great. I had that Bradbury's Monarda at my old
house. It's in Make the Move.That's one of the ones that got
lost in because I transplantedthings in July, which is not a
good idea, into pots, and then Ididn't plant until the fall. And
it had died back, and I I couldnot find the roots.
That was so sad. But, yeah, itwas super well behaved, and it,
like, had brilliant red leavesin the fall. It was awesome.

(13:56):
Absolutely.

Layne (13:57):
It's it's a really great species.

Erin (13:59):
Abigail, what's your favorite native?

Abigail (14:02):
Mine's a grass. I've just been feeling it lately, so
I'm going I'm channeling Erin. Ireally love little bluestem. I
think it's so cute. I love thatit's like got like the I don't
know.
It gives me wild prairie vibeswith also still being manageable
in my yard. I love the fallcolor and the winter color it
has, like it's just so prettyright now and when it gets

(14:25):
fluffy, it's really fun. And Ihave, like, so much of it in my
yard because my neighbor worksfor Public Works. And so he was
like, I have a ton extra that wenever ended up planting. Do you
want it?
And he just brings me like aflat of 20. And I was like,
sure. I'll plant it on the sideof my house. It's a nice little
row of little bluestem now. Andso it just looks really good.
It's like a managed, like, grassbunch set. And I don't know.

(14:50):
Just it's so I look at it andI'm like, I love it in the
winter and maybe that's why Ilove it right now. But, yeah.
Little Bluestem Schizachyriumscoparium.

Layne (15:00):
Is that how you say the botanical on that one? I've
always had a hard time sayingit.

Erin (15:05):
Say it with confidence, and then it's fine.

Layne (15:08):
Yep. That's what I usually do.

Abigail (15:10):
You know, you all made me question if I was saying it
right, and I think I said itwith enough confidence that you
all believed me. So That's whatI remember from from undergrad
because I that from that nativeplant class, so I, you know, I
just go with it. I also neverforget it because people are
always like big bluestem andlittle bluestem is related, and
I'm like, it's not actually. Thescientific names are very

(15:30):
different.
Schizahcyrium and Andropogon aretwo different.

Layne (15:34):
So Yeah. And little bluestem, I think, was the what
was it? The 2022 perennial plantof the year. Like, it it it was
a big deal. The perennial plantassociation, I believe, made it
there. Yeah. I think it wastheir 2022 plant of the year.

Abigail (15:51):
There you go. Alright, Erin. Let me hear your favorite
one.

Erin (15:54):
So mine is not one that's super popular in gardening
settings, but that doesn't meanthat I don't have it in my
garden. My favorite native plantof all time is prairie smoke,
which is

Abigail (16:06):
Love prairie smoke. Nice.

Erin (16:08):
Not found where I'm at, but up in Northern Illinois, and
then when I worked in Minnesotain the prairies there, we would
find prairie smoke, and it justif you've never seen it, it just
looks like a red tuft of smoke,and it's so stunning in the
spring. So I got one and plantedit in my garden, and it survived

(16:31):
the year.
So I'm hoping it survived thewinter and made it through. It
hasn't bloomed yet, but I'mhopeful that maybe in the
spring, we'll get it to bloom.But besides, you know, a little
blue stem prairie dropseed, Ihave so many butterfly milkweed,
all the ones. I love it. Butanything like red or orange
really kinda sticks out to mebecause you don't find those
colors as often. So that's myfavorite.

Abigail (16:53):
Prairie Smoke gives me like truffle a tree. Like it's
it's like mini, like Loraxvibes. Love it. You know? Yes.

Layne (17:01):
It is Lorax vibes. Absolutely. Yeah. The so I I was
just I was just doing someediting on our plant finder
tool. I had to add an Indianafilter because we're gonna be
integrating it with rainscaping,which is really cool and
exciting.
And prairie smoke is the onlyspecies on our list of 136 that

(17:22):
is technically native inIllinois, but is not native in
Indiana.

Erin (17:27):
Interesting.

Layne (17:28):
We're right on the edge. And That's interesting. I didn't
know that. And I was like, thisdoesn't seem right. Truly, it's
native in Indiana too. Nope. Itis not.

Abigail (17:38):
Even like not like like the border completely? Like it's
not even, it doesn't even go

Layne (17:43):
like We're on a southern, like southwestern edge of its
range. Right?

Abigail (17:47):
Mhmm.

Layne (17:49):
Yeah.

Abigail (17:49):
Yeah. My neighbor has it in her rain garden in her
front yard and she labels it, soshe has labels. And every time I
pass her house, I'm always like,look. Like and so I love to
kinda look through them. Good.

Layne (18:02):
They're just happy. They're happy little things.

Erin (18:04):
They are. Happy little things. Yep. Well, so let's get
back to

Abigail (18:08):
our rain garden and our back on topic. Right? So if you
all checked out for the last tenminutes, come on back to us.
We're talking back about raingardens. We're gonna have these
more rainfall events due to,more extreme weather.
Can rain gardens help with theseheavy rainfall events? I know
Erin said she just had oneyesterday.

Layne (18:30):
Yeah. Rain gardens really can help with with these kind of
extreme rainfall events thatwe've been seeing. I like to
think of it like this. Prior todevelopment, most surfaces, you
know, across the state werepermeable. We didn't have roads,
we didn't have parking lots.
Water really soaked in to tomost of our landscapes. Today,

(18:54):
again, with roads and roofs andparking lots, a lot of that
water that comes down is quicklyredirected to the nearest water
body. And then that has a reallybig impact, especially in
urbanized areas, on the qualityand the quantity of water that
that reaches that water body.With rain gardens, we look back

(19:14):
to those pre developmentconditions, kind of at a smaller
scale. They're a nature basedsolution to help communities
adapt to these heavier rainfallevents.
They slow down and absorbrainwater that would otherwise
cause flash flooding. And whendesigned well, especially, you
know, were talking about at thatcommunity scale, they reduce
strain on our traditionalstormwater infrastructure

(19:36):
systems and and lower the riskof neighborhood flooding. Plus
their ability to absorb waterhelps to protect downstream
water bodies and and their kindof nearby ecosystems from being
overwhelmed with excess stormwater.

Abigail (19:51):
The way our landscape has changed. So let's say you're
not even in a very urbanenvironment. You're like, well,
I don't have a ton ofimpermeable surfaces around me.
Right? Like, it's fairly rural.
There's a lot of open space. Ithink what we also think too is
like the channelization of ourwater and how there's not really
absorption happening nearly asmuch regardless of if your

(20:12):
community has a lot ofimpermeable surfaces or not. So
like we're channelizing, by thatI mean like all of our water is
very specifically going intorivers and streams. Not a lot is
being absorbed into the ground.And that's due to land use
changes changes in general.Right?

Layne (20:33):
Yeah. Even a person's lawn, for example, That's a
really good example of somethingthat you might think is really
soaking in a lot of water, whenit's it's actually not. Grass
systems have, you know, two,maybe three inches of root
system compared to, you know, inmany cases feet of root system

(20:54):
that exists underneath nativeplantings. So you're losing some
infiltration there. On top ofthat, our lawns are being mowed,
often by like a lawn a lawnmower or lawn tractor, that is
compacting the soil.
And after decades and decades ofthat compaction, the soil
becomes very hard and water justkind of runs off of it. Not all

(21:18):
of it. It's not the same as aparking lot. It's not a paved
surface. So lawns are soaking insome water, but it's not nearly
as much as what you would seewith native plantings, and
especially with rain gardens.Rain gardens absorb 30% more
than the equivalent area of ajust a grass lawn. So they are

(21:39):
really useful for adapting tothese more extreme rain events
that we're seeing.

Abigail (21:45):
And a lot of lawn spaces we're not really needing
to have as like flat lawn.Right? Like I I usually get that
question as like, what do I, youknow, like, but I like my lawn
and I'm like, well, what do youlike about it? Do you like the
look? Do you like that you getto play on it? Like, what is the
functionality of that space foryou? Because if the answer is
you just you don't need it toplay on, you don't need a flat,

(22:10):
you know, surface that peoplecan run on or or or, you know,
recreate on or whatever, youknow, if it's a beauty thing,
like, let's talk about otheroptions that are also functional
in an environmental way for ourcommunities and and landscapes.

Erin (22:27):
That makes me think about when we moved into our new
house, we specifically bought ahouse with nearly a half acre
yard, and it was basically ablank slate, which is what I
wanted because I wanted to tearout, like, more than half the
lawn. Right? And turn it intogardens. And my dad came to
visit, he's like, you got theperfect setup for a wiffle ball
field here. And I'm like, oh,well, the vegetable garden's

(22:50):
gonna go here, and we're gonnaplant trees here and here, and
then the native garden, he'slike, you're ruining it.
I'm like, but we're not gonnause it for that purpose. We're
not gonna use it in that way. Weneed some space.

Abigail (22:59):
You're not wiffle ball player.

Erin (23:01):
I'm like, that's that's what we did as a kid, and we had
a good setup in the backyard,but I'm like, nope. We're gonna
put trees in and other plants,and we're gonna convert some of
this lawn. So like, it'sdifferent for every person.
Right? Like, what is your landuse?
What, you know, is yourintention to use your lawn for?
And then, yeah, what are someways that you can maybe reduce

(23:22):
some of your lawn that you'renot using and put it into a
different sort of, you know, use

Layne (23:27):
Yeah. And tying it directly back to this water
topic that we're discussinghere, the the lawns that you
often see that are those green,rich, manicured, beautiful green
carpets. They're lush. They'reusually not natural. Right?
Like, somebody is puttingdifferent kinds of fertilizer on

(23:48):
that to make sure that it staysnice and green, and that can
really impact our water qualityas well. You know, as as that
moves with water that comes downonto it, it can have impact. And
so if you are going to have abig, open, green lawn,
definitely check out the, thenatural lawn care options that,

(24:11):
Lawn to Lake Midwest talksabout, on their fantastic
website.

Erin (24:16):
So when we're talking about, you know, changing
converting some of our lawn,putting in a rain garden, in
this case. Right? If I'mconvinced, which I am, so this
is a great question for me toask. I'm convinced I want a rain
garden. I haven't done it yet,but, like, let's break down some
of the steps that we need to gothrough to kind of put one in in

(24:38):
practice.
So first of all, how do you knowif a certain space in your
landscape is a good fit for arain garden?

Layne (24:46):
Yeah. It's a great question. And and before we
really dive into this, I do wantto mention that it's gonna be
very hard for me to tell youexactly how to build a
successful rain garden, youknow, in a podcast that's under
an hour. But I will talk aboutkind of a broad overview of
things, you know, that that comeup with, or that we come up with
here today. But I reallyencourage people to look at the

(25:09):
Purdue Rainscaping EducationProgram that Illinois Extension
has brought over into our stateas well.
We'll talk about that more inkind of the the the wrap up of
the podcast here. But whenyou're looking for the right
space for a rain garden on yourproperty, You're going to start

(25:30):
by looking for a spot wherewater is already naturally
flowing during a rainstorm. Solook at your downspout that's
coming from your roof, or lookat an area where water is being
shed off of your driveway andonto your lawn. You're going to
want to make sure that it is atleast 10 feet away from your
house. You don't want waterpooling near your foundation.

(25:53):
And it's really important totest your soil to see if it
drains well. Rain gardens workbest in soils that allow water
to soak in within twenty four toforty eight hours maximum. And a
common misconception that I wantto mention here is that rain
gardens probably should not belocated in an area that already

(26:14):
sees standing stagnant water.That kind of implies that your
soil there is already having ahard time soaking in water. So
instead you're going to want tolocate that rain garden just
above that, that lowest areawhere you're already seeing
water ponding, so that youcapture water before it has a
chance to to enter that area,before it causes the ponding.

Abigail (26:37):
So we did a rainscaping class and I got that a lot, and
a lot of you, oh, I wanna buildit right here. And I'm like, no,
actually. And what we'd end upfinding out was actually that
pooling was from their roof.They would like it would go into
their their gutters. Right?
And lead right into that spot.And I'm like, okay. Now you've
identified the source. Like, canyou, you know, direct that

(26:59):
downspout to another space?Right?
That's gonna take in that. Canyou amend your soil? Like, let's
talk about those solutions. Isit a matter of, like, maybe a
rain barrel that, like, leads toa hose to that spot or
something? Because, yeah, it'snever just like a just build a
rain garden here where theflooding is.

Layne (27:19):
Yeah. Yeah. They can definitely be a system. You
know, these these things that wetalk about, rain gardens, rain
barrels, they can work intandem. But you mentioned water
fall water falling on a roof.
And, you know, if we think aboutthe average kind of residential
roof being somewhere around1,200 square feet, during a one

(27:41):
inch rainstorm, that is 744gallons of water that's coming
off of your roof, in a one inchrainstorm. Just to give you an
idea, the standard bathtub is 60gallons. So 744 gallons of water
coming off of your roof. That isthat's a lot of water in a

(28:05):
single kind of rainstorm event.One inch rainstorms are not that
uncommon. And often we seebigger storms than that. So,
yeah. A lot of water.

Erin (28:16):
That's 12 bathtubs full. I just did the math in the
background.

Abigail (28:20):
I was also just Thank you.

Layne (28:22):
Thank for doing the math. I did not pull my calculator out
for this. I just happen toremember those numbers.

Erin (28:28):
I love it. But then that also kind of puts into
perspective too, I know I sharedthis in another episode that
we've recorded, but we just had,like, a 1.7 inch rainfall
yesterday. So, you know, anothergood source to look that up is
you can go to the CocoRaHSwebsite and that it will show

(28:48):
you localized rainfall for yourarea, or you can also contribute
to collecting that data as partof that program. But it kinda
showed, like, for us, where Iwas in my town, it was like a
localized, like, a lot heavierrain happened, whereas it was
only like an inch, you know,just a few miles up the road.

(29:09):
Right?
And so it can really change, butthat just kinda helps put it in
perspective too. Now I canremember the amount of rain that
we got yesterday. I'm like, oh,that was one and a half to two
inches of rain. Like, I kind ofhave that idea in my brain
because I think we say that alot. Right?
In designing rain gardens, wetalk about, like, a one inch
rainfall and how much water thatis, but, like, what does that
look like to you too? So it'skinda something to to keep in

(29:32):
mind if you're interested is tolike, the next time it rains,
the next day, or, like, listento the weather and see what they
report as the rainfall amount,right, to kinda get that picture
of what that looks like in yourhead.

Abigail (29:45):
Yeah. And I'm gonna add, we'll put the CoCoRaHS
website, right, in our shownotes because that's an acronym
that may people might not befamiliar with. It's a it's a
really great program about,like, gathering weather and and
local climate data. So I'mtrying to find a good spot, but
I don't want a pond. I reallydon't. Like, I don't want

(30:07):
mosquitoes. I don't wantamphibians in that way, maybe. I
don't know. For some reason, Idon't want a pond in my yard.
Why how do I avoid that?

Layne (30:18):
So if designed properly, rain gardens are intended to
drain water within a day or two.If you find that your soil isn't
draining fast enough, you canamend it with sand and with
compost to improve theinfiltration. But this is gonna
need to be determined andamended before doing any kind of
planting or mulching. The ideais to create a a relatively

(30:39):
normal thriving garden for mostof the time with plants that can
handle those occasional wetconditions, especially areas of
your planted garden?

Abigail (30:49):
So it's definitely not something that we just kind of
like flippantly do. Like it's athought out planned garden space
in which we're doing, which, youknow, we should be planning our
spaces, but it's not like a, oh,you know, I'm just gonna put all
my wet loving plants here. Arain garden is like an
intentionally engineered garden.

Layne (31:12):
Yeah, it is. Engineered is is a great way to put it. And
especially because we don't wantthose standing, stagnant water
conditions. We don't want toencourage mosquito populations,
you know, in our backyard. Wedon't necessarily want, for
other health reasons, water tobe standing there for more than

(31:36):
forty eight hours.
That water does have to soakinto the ground, you know, even
with the plants there. There aremany plants that can withstand,
you know, that day, maybe two,of being inundated with water.
You know, water is standingaround them. But after that
time, the plants can start to beimpacted negatively by that much

(32:02):
standing water for as long as asthat, you know. You don't want
five days of standing water inyour yard.
Most people do not. And yourneighbors might not be happy
with you if that were the caseeither. So think about your soil
infiltration before you startplanting.

Erin (32:20):
Yeah. Definitely. And I think Abigail brings up a good
point too. When we're talkingabout picking out what plants,
is it as simple as, oh,everything that loves a lot of
moisture, that's what I puthere, and that's the only plants
that I put here. Or is theremore nuance to what goes in a
rain garden?

Layne (32:39):
There's there's a lot that goes into it, and this is
part of the reason why it'slike, it's gonna be very hard to
tell you exactly what to do, youknow, in building a rain garden
and a short podcast here. Thereare definitely plenty of
Extension resources that canhelp you out here. But,
basically, look at native plantsand recognize their strengths in

(33:00):
these kinds of situations.You're going to want to
understand things like yourlight conditions, of course, but
with rain gardens, you reallywant to understand moisture
conditions. Since it is kind ofa bowl shaped feature that
absorbs water, the low basin,kind of the lowest point of your
garden, is going to experienceperiods where it's wetter than

(33:21):
the areas that are kind of onthe rim of that bowl, the high
and dry locations.
I usually call them the banks ofthe rain garden. So selecting
plants for your garden that arebased on moisture level zones is
really important. You've gotyour basin. Again, that's your
lowest, wettest point of thegarden. You want plants that can

(33:44):
withstand several hours ofstanding water.
You might look at blue flagiris, swamp milkweed, palm sedge
are are three that come to mind.The next level up in your rain
garden is your slope. And inthat area, that's kind of your
transition. You're gonna havemore moderate moisture
conditions, so you might wantplants like great blue lobelia,

(34:08):
orange coneflower, rudbeckias.Little bluestem, of course, is a
lovely grass that we've alreadymentioned that that does well in
those kind of middle conditionsas well.
And then we get to our high anddry locations of the rain
garden, which is our the thebanks. And that's where you want
drought tolerant species likebutterfly weed, prairie

(34:30):
dropseed, blazing star. You canhave a lovely combination of
grasses and flowering plants andsedges in these diverse kinds of
landscapes. I like to benaturalistic in my planting
design, So I include a mix ofground covers and seasonal

(34:51):
seasonal bloomers, and then somestructural plants in there, like
tall grasses or even shrubs.They help provide year round
architecture and interest.
Combinations like, you know,these things help to boost
biodiversity, and they createyear round visual appeal as
well. And especially with thethe ground cover layer, I think,

(35:12):
you can create a reallyfunctional landscape. It is
helping to increase absorptionof your rain garden, but it's
also helping to shade out weedseeds. In this ground cover
layer, you know, I really talkabout sedges. They are fantastic
in these these systems.

(35:33):
And there are a lot of differentones that you can choose from.
There is the Illinois GroundworkPlant Finder tool that can help
you select some of these plantsfor these different conditions.
There are ferns, there areflowering plants, there's all
kinds of wonderful stuff thatcan go into these gardens, but
you have to be thoughtful aboutit. You don't want to put

(35:55):
compass plant with its 15 feetof root systems in the wettest
part of your rain garden,because it's probably not going
to thrive there. Will itsurvive?
Maybe. Because it's not alwaysgoing to be wet. But it's not
going to to love it, and youreally want plants to to thrive
in these different zones of yourrain garden.

Abigail (36:16):
I love that system, and you break that down, or that's
broken down as well in those RedOak rain garden resources that,
like, talk about, like, here'ssome, like, a a design option
and, like, the plants and whatthey look like in all seasons.
We'll share those in the shownotes. Those are a favorite of
of at least up here, we sharethem all the time. And I love

(36:38):
that it breaks it down intothat, like, that structural and,
like, those different kinds,because a lot of people just
think like, oh, I'm just gonnaput all my showers in there.
I'm gonna make them allbeautiful, and it just adds some
different pieces. And I'vepersonally fallen into that
pitfall. I had some pieces, butI was finding my my plants were
flopping. And I was like, man,what is cut? Like and some

(36:59):
plants just like they're, youknow, in our in our more
nutrient rich environment. Andso I was like, oh, I and like
after kind of seeing that andtalking with you, I was like,
oh, I need to add more structureunderneath to give that ground
cover and also give that goodroot competition underneath to
help with the the health of theplants and this this composition
as well. And so that thatreally, really helped in in kind

(37:22):
of shifting things up because,you know, there's a lot of
beauty in not just the theshowers. Right? It's it's in all
the pieces, and it's thatcomposition that you usually see
that, like, you see otherpeople's and you go, oh, man. I
want mine to look like that.Right? They're using all of
those elements.

Layne (37:38):
Yeah. And as we shift away from what has been kind of
the traditional planting designmethodology of here's a plant,
here's three feet of mulch,here's a plant, here's another
three feet of mulch. As we moveaway from that and into this

(38:00):
more naturalistic design, whichis a very good thing, by the
way, I'm happy to see ithappening, it does take a bit of
a shift in understanding and andjust a new look at aesthetics.
What do we find beautiful?Because for a long time, that is

(38:21):
what people found beautiful, andwe are starting to see that
change where we want to see theground covered with beautiful
plants.
We're not so focused on oneplant being showy and beautiful,
you know, the spotlight is onthat plant surrounded by its
three feet of of red dyed mulch.

Abigail (38:39):
Both of our faces were giggling at that red dyed mulch
comment. That's so funny. Nohate to people who like their
red dyed mulch. Everybody hastheir. But like, using kind of a
more like, A. it's dyed. Right?So think about, like, what is
not like, what can we do not addinputs to that don't need
inputs. Right? The the wooditself can be beautiful. And

(38:59):
then I like natural ground covermulch. Right? Like, they call it
living mulch. Right? It's likethis idea of the the the
structural plants underneathproviding that cover, and they
die back in the in the winter,providing that that extra
nutrient, and decompositionactivity that's that's necessary
for that.

Layne (39:20):
Yeah. As we as we shift away from from that, it's really
exciting, I think, to see peopleget excited about this. And with
Extension, you know, it's it'samazing being able to offer
people the resources to get themthere, to help them understand,
you know, why these theseupdates are so important, not

(39:43):
only for water quality, but forwildlife and and community
health. All kinds of differentdifferent things go with this
switch in mentality.

Abigail (39:53):
Well, you were talking about some of these resources
you develop and and and you workwith, and you've mentioned a few
and I just I we wanna learnmore. Where can we learn more
about rain gardens, about plantselection for rain gardens, just
more resources to help peoplethat are inspired by this this
podcast?

Layne (40:12):
So I think the most important one for people to
explore, especially if they arelooking to install their own
rain garden, is the rainscapingeducation program. I know that
I've already mentioned this inthe podcast, but the Rainscaping
Education program really goesinto detail on the the design of

(40:32):
rain gardens. It goes into howto actually install your rain
garden, and it talks about themaintenance of them. Rain
gardens are not maintenancefree. They will get easier as
they establish.
And that is, that's a goodthing. But they do take some
maintenance, especially kind ofat the beginning of, you know,

(40:56):
as they're being established.And and the Rainscaping
Education Program talks aboutthose kind of three categories.
You can find information on thatat
And I know that this is gonna bein the show notes as well.
Abigail has mentioned the RedOak Rain Garden resources. And

(41:19):
the Red Oak Rain Garden, again,is University of Illinois
Extension's demonstration sitethat is on the University of
Illinois campus. And there areall kinds of different resources
that our team has put togetherbased on our experiences there.
And you can find our brochuresat
go.illinois.edu/rorgresources. R0 R G meaning Red Oak Grain

(41:48):
Garden.
We also have the plant findertool, which is located on
Illinois Groundwork. It'sanother extension in Illinois
Indiana Sea Grant project thatfeatures plants specifically for
green storm water infrastructureand rain gardens. You can find
that atgo.illinois.edu/plantfinder.

(42:11):
Yeah. All of those are reallyawesome. We share those widely
up here in Cook, and Erin'sshaking her head. Yes. She
shares them in her neck of thewoods too.

Abigail (42:22):
So useful. I love like, think I mentioned earlier, those
red oak rain garden brochuresare so cool because they show
the seasonal changes of thatplant. So if you're like, well,
I wanna make sure it's gonnalook good in this season. I
personally keep a spreadsheet oflike the plants in my yard of
like when it blooms and likewhat color it looks like.

Erin (42:41):
I love it.

Abigail (42:41):
Because I wanna have that different seasonal change.
Oh, you all would go crazy overmy spreadsheet. It's great.

Erin (42:46):
That's amazing.

Abigail (42:47):
So like thinking if you if you, like, it's something to
have fun with. Right? Like, havefun with that project, and I
also just feel like too, it'sit's a little bit of
troubleshooting and learning andexploring, and you're like, one
year you're like, I'm gonna chopthese back just to see what
happens, and another year you'relike, I'm gonna plant more of
these because somebody gave themto me. So it's definitely it's
science if you're looking to dolike a little science, and it's

(43:10):
very fun in my opinion. I likeit.
And I love the resources that gowith it, and Extension makes it
really easy to, you know, askquestions. And if you're looking
for something really specific,we have a lot of expertise
across the state of, like, youknow, this plant in particular
is having trouble or I'm lookingfor these. We're all very, very

(43:31):
interested in telling you moreabout the awesome things that we
have to offer. So please feelfree to reach out to any
extension professional, andthey'll probably get you to
either one of us or or one ofour colleagues across the state.

Erin (43:44):
I joke about your spreadsheet, but you haven't
seen my PowerPoint slide thathas all of the different design
for my garden and with all mydifferent colored dots for the
different plants and what Iwanna add each year and then it
changes every year because youknow, those weren't available
but I bought other things andput them in and it's kind of
intense but it's fun, so

Abigail (44:07):
I would say, you went tech. I do I just like have a
hand drawing that I like kindarevisit. I'm like, oh yeah, this
is what's in here and then I addto the list and stuff, but a
PowerPoint slide is hilarious.

Erin (44:19):
Definitely not to scale, that's what I learned.

Abigail (44:21):
I put 18 plants in here, I can only fit four.

Erin (44:24):
Definitely. But you know, we work on it.

Layne (44:26):
I did a two scale AutoCAD drawing of my gardens back home,
and every single plant that isin the entire yard, because I
wanted to have a library of allthe species that I have. So I
basically have turned my myparents' backyard into a
botanical garden. And I think atlast count, I last updated it in

(44:51):
spring, I had 137 species.

Abigail (44:55):
Wow. Thought you were gonna get plants. Was like No.
No. No. No. God, I don't. Idon't even want to know how many
plants. A lot of money has gotinto that garden, but it's a
it's a beautiful space. But now,a hundred, yeah, over 130
species out there, probably, Iwould say probably close to
10,000 plants.

Erin (45:16):
Woah.

Layne (45:17):
I mean, the red oak green garden has has 14,000, but who's
counting?

Abigail (45:22):
What size is the lot of your parents?

Layne (45:24):
It's probably like half an acre.

Abigail (45:29):
Okay. Okay.

Layne (45:30):
It's not it's not huge, but there's also there's also a
pool and lawn around it that mydogs Yeah. Run through. So it's
not like the whole thing isplanted. I also have a prairie
that's planted in the fieldbehind their house, and those
numbers are not included in that130 species.

Abigail (45:47):
Well, that's I know, like, we the Conservation @ Home
Program, we see a lot of reallycool yards, and like, are people
who like really pack it in. AndI'm like, woah. Like, and it
looks good. Like, it's

Layne (45:58):
If you know what you're doing, you can really make like,
when I'm talking to a newaudience, I usually encourage
them to kind of start small,because you don't want them to
be overwhelmed. Plus, there'salways gonna be a learning
curve. We even did it at the RedOak Rain Garden. We started
with, you know, x number ofspecies. And as our volunteers
have gotten used to the plants,we have started to add on ones

(46:21):
that we really wanna see.
Right? But if you know whatyou're doing, you can make a
really impressive, diversegarden. And that doesn't even
have to include springephemerals, right, which like
come up and they do their thingwhen nothing else is really
doing anything. So you adddiversity just by, you know, you

(46:46):
can throw in some Trilliums andand Bluebells and I mean, if
you're not staying 100% native,you can throw in some snowdrops
or something like that. Andyou've got a whole list of
amazing things to add to thisgarden, to add diversity, and I
like doing that.

Erin (47:06):
Nice. I wanna go home and count. I'm gonna pull up my
PowerPoint. Do it. I wanna know.
It's not to have any, becauseI'm well, I'm a year and a half
in, but that's gonna be my goal.

Layne (47:18):
This was probably I probably started planting my
parents' gardens when I was 12,so

Erin (47:22):
Okay. Well, you've had a long time to work.

Layne (47:24):
I had a long time to do it.

Erin (47:27):
Awesome. Well, thanks so much Lane for sharing all of
your amazing knowledge aboutrain gardens and native plants.
It's been super fun to chat withyou today.

Layne (47:36):
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.

Erin (47:38):
We're going to finish today's episode with our
everyday observations, where wehighlight the mundane and normal
of our environment that'sactually really interesting. So
Abigail, what is your everydayobservation?

Abigail (47:52):
Yeah. So mine's from a while back, not like a while
back, but like still this year.I just love the like growing
like keeping on the native planttrain. I love growing the native
plants in my yard because I getto know them super well, like I
haven't, I did a native plantclass in college and now, like I

(48:13):
have a space that I've had forabout six years to grow plants.
And so, being able to grow yourown plants and see them in all
seasons and, like, intimatelywatch them and see the
interactions and the ecology ofthem is just, something really
special.
That's why I always encourage,like, Master Naturalists when

(48:33):
they're trying when they wannaidentify things really well,
I'm, like, find a stewardshipsite, go to it every week, and
just like, that's how you willget to know plants really well.
It's like, you just arephysically seeing and are at
those plants all the time. We'recurrently doing a lot of our
seed sorting because we do likea native seed donation of our of
our conservation @ home yards,and then we use those to like

(48:55):
give out at at places. And so alot of our volunteers are
currently sorting seeds, and itjust makes me think like, wow,
like, you don't really know whatthe seed of that plant looks
like until you've collected itand processed it and packaged it
a thousand times. You reallykind of learn so much about that
plant and like the differentadaptations of it, you're like,

(49:16):
actually, that's not the seed,that's the chaff because it's
like what protects the seedaround it, and so the seed is
much smaller and you have tofilter it out and everything,
and so I just feel like I'veI've gotten to know the plants
in my yard so well, and then youlearn what eats those seeds too.
Right? So like you learn thatthere's weevils on certain
plants and it like, it's justlike really really cool to see
all of the interactions and justthe the seeds themselves and how

(49:42):
they grow and look differentfrom the adult plant, but also
look similar and yeah, it's justreally I love I love to see all
of those aspects of the lifecycle of that plant.

Layne (49:52):
And I thought I was a native plant nerd. That's pretty
that's pretty impressive. Idon't think I've ever gone to
that level of detail with, like,seed collection. It's
inspirational, though. That'sthat's really cool.

Abigail (50:05):
Well, thank you.

Erin (50:06):
I love it. We're getting ready to do seed seed sorting as
well with our volunteers, andit's always fun to just get,
like you said, to kinda see thatup close, like the full life
cycle. Right? Alright, Lane.What's your everyday
observation?

Layne (50:24):
So I have to admit, I haven't been able to get out
into nature a lot lately, butluckily, I can see Lake Michigan
from my balcony. And, you know,we're recording here in mid
December, and it's been reallyfun to watch the waterfowl that
have been kind of moving up anddown the coastline here. I've
seen a lot of different birdsout there. We've got golden eye,

(50:47):
mergansers. I've even seen a fewbald eagles in the last couple
of weeks, has been fun to seehere in the city.
It reminds me of being home, butthere are, there's there's a lot
more water in Lake Michigan thanwhat I see back home. So, a
little bit different, but stillreally nice to see all of those
birds flying by.

Abigail (51:06):
So it makes makes me laugh because there's a lot more
water in Lake Michigan than mostother places.

Layne (51:12):
It is true.

Abigail (51:13):
Yeah. Those like waterfowl , like the Lake
Michigan shoreline is like ahuge birding hotspot, and I love
love that you started with, oh,I haven't gotten out in nature
lately, and I'm like, but naturewas out your window. Right? Yes.
Like that's so cool that youwere you're like, I just get to
like hang out. Like, I'm stilldoing work. I'm on the clock,
but I am seeing those birds, andI love it. So

Layne (51:36):
And yeah, I'm gonna talk about it in a podcast.

Erin (51:39):
I love it. Well, I'll wrap up today. So as I've mentioned
several times, I moved about ayear and a half ago, and put in
a bunch of native gardens, butthen one of the projects that my
husband and I have been workingon is, you know, great, like,
property boundaries between youryard and the neighbor's yard

(52:00):
where there's some trees andthen there's all the invasives
that grew under it. Andeveryone's just decided that's
where they're gonna put alltheir sticks, that's where all
the leaves are gonna go, they'regonna dump their old plants out,
probably their vacuum cleaner.We found some great stuff in
cleaning that out,

Abigail (52:14):
but we I'm sorry. You were just like throwing in
vacuum cleaner like it wasnormal. You were like, so I
probably have a vacuum cleanerand dust. I'm like thinking
like, buckthorn, honeysuckle,ribbit, like all the things.

Layne (52:25):
It's vacuum. It's I do have yeah. It does.

Erin (52:29):
Like, empty out your vacuum cleaner, right? And all
the stuff pulled back.

Abigail (52:32):
You were saying there was a real vacuum in that, and I
was like, oh.

Erin (52:37):
We found some silverware though, that was in there too.
So right, it's been like thisfor a while. No one really cared
to clean it up. Most of it, forthe most part, it's on our
property lines, we're like,we're gonna deal with this,
right? So last fall we did abunch of invasive removals, did
kind of the first pass, right?
And we went in, cut out a bunchof honeysuckle and privet and

(53:04):
other just your typicalinvasives that you find. Right?
And then we got to this fall andit was like, it's time for phase
two, was kind of probablyNovember, December, right, when
all of that stuff is still greenbut everything else isn't, so
it's really easy to tell whathappened. So my husband's the
real champ. He went back for asecond round and got rid of
everything.

(53:25):
We cleared all the leavesbecause we're trying we had like
winter creeper covering theground, so we had to clear
everything out to like get ridof all of that. And now when you
look, our neighbors are probablylike, what are they doing?
What's going on? Because it usedto be completely like dense, you
couldn't see through it.

Abigail (53:39):
That was my hedge row, I didn't wanna see what you were
doing back there.

Erin (53:42):
Exactly. Now there are maybe like five or six mature
trees and a few shrubs in thereand it's like completely cleared
out. So the plan is we're goingto plant like native shrubs back
in there, right? And kind ofcreate that that row again. But
it's just kind of fun to likereflect on the progress that
we've made and see tangibly thatchange in a space that most

(54:04):
people overlook, right?
The edges of your property isreally easy to be like, yeah, we
don't need to worry about that.As this podcast continues, give
me three years, that's what I'mgonna say, and I'm gonna be
talking about all the nativeplants that we've added in, and
what we've the shade gardenwe've been able to make. But
it's just kinda cool to see theprogress that has happened in in
a relatively short amount oftime, So that's been exciting

(54:26):
for us.

Abigail (54:28):
Season 10 theme is just gonna be Erin's yard.

Layne (54:31):
I was gonna say that that sounds like a really great blog
and podcast right there. So

Abigail (54:37):
There we go. I told Erin that when she moved. I
said, you should make that ablog. It's like your journey to
convert a space into a nativelandscape.

Layne (54:46):
I that idea though. Yeah. Yeah. I like that idea of like
the extension, like environment,horticulture people, what they
do with their own spaces, like,being its own little series kind
of sounds like fun.

Erin (54:59):
Oh. I love it. I mean, we chat about it all the time on
podcasts. And I have anotherblog, Grasses at a Glance, for
our listeners, if you haven'tchecked it out. And I do talk
about things that I've done inmy yard.
But, yeah. It's been super funto just experiment. And like I
said, start from scratch. That'swell, kind of scratch. There

(55:19):
were plants to remove for sure,but a lot of it has just been
converting lawns.
That's been really I'm not gonnasay exciting. It's not an
exciting process, but Rewardingto kinda start from scratch with
that. Yeah. This has beenanother episode on the Everyday
Environment podcast.
Check us out next week where wetalk with Phil Nicodemus all

(55:43):
about the reversal of theChicago River.

Abigail (55:49):
This podcast is a University of Illinois Extension
production, hosted and edited byAbigail Gaherfalo, Erin Garrett,
and Amy Lefringhaus.