July 9, 2025 • 60 mins
Allison Lacoursiere joins Maggie Augustyn, Chad Johnson, and Regan Robertson to unpack how money beliefs shape leadership and practice growth. Learn how reframing money as a neutral tool unlocks confidence and freedom in this powerful episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Dr. Maggie Augustyn (00:00):
welcome to Everyday Practices Dental podcast with my
amazing host Reagan Robertson and Dr.
Chad Johnson.
And today on a very special Friday,we have this incredible guest.
Our very, very good friend, Alison Laier,who is this incredible powerhouse she is.
(00:22):
Um.
She has a very special place in myheart, and she has a, a very special
place in many people's hearts.
Uh, she's stepping into this beautifulreality of redefining herself.
And so it is an honor to haveher on this podcast, but she, um.
(00:43):
She redefines reality for a lot of people.
And the last time her and I spoke,she really opened up my eyes to
seeing something very differently.
And today's, uh, subject is going tobe money the way that we look at money.
(01:03):
So, hi Chad.
Hi Reagan.
And
Regan Robertson (01:08):
listen.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (01:09):
Hello.
Regan Robertson (01:11):
Welcome, Alison.
We are so excited.
I, I can't remember the lasttime I saw you in person.
Uh, I remember memorable times thoughwhere I have seen you in person and
your soul just radiates optimism andhope and light and throughout, um,
your career evolution in dentistry.
You carried that through, like thatis just intuitive to your soul.
(01:33):
And so to apply that to money, whichcan cause a lot of fear and tension and
scarcity and all that good stuff, I thinkit's gonna be a great conversation today.
Allison Lacoursiere (01:44):
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be here.
And similar like feelings to all of you.
All of you bring so much joy to me andjust the positive energy, the optimism,
the joy, the fun that I have withall three of you is just astounding.
So.
It's gonna be a good day.
Dr. Chad Johnson (01:59):
Alison, was it last year the dentist Money Up?
Uh, money Summit?
Were you there?
Allison Lacoursiere (02:04):
I wasn't.
I was at the PDA.
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:06):
Was it that, and just one other thing.
Were you at the in Teleconconference last year?
I. Okay.
I was trying to remember where Italked with you last in person.
So remember it was in a large conferenceroom, but you know, it can be anywhere.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn: 20th anniversary, PDA, (02:20):
undefined
Regan Robertson (02:23):
that's it.
All the cheerleaders.
Chad, so you're saying theAllison attends high caliber, very
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:28):
darn right.
Regan Robertson (02:30):
Awesome events.
Is
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:31):
that out of all the places that you've probably been?
I can't keep track of it all, so, yeah.
Allison Lacoursiere: That was the best one. (02:35):
undefined
The 20th and Roser was the best one.
Yeah, that it was
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:39):
a good
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (02:39):
Okay, so let's get, let's get into it.
Okay.
Because, um, there's,there's disagreement.
And I love this because within thiscrowd we're definitely going to have some
really exciting discussion about money.
So when Allison and I were talking,this idea of money and what it means
and how we look at money came up becauseI have an attachment to money, and the
(03:04):
way that I look at money is negative.
I assign money, uh, Idon't know, a judgment.
I look at money as bad.
Okay?
And I'm gonna tell you astory to get us started.
So, and I'm trying to break thatattachment because after my conversation
with Allison, what Allison opened up myeyes to is, money is neither good or bad.
(03:27):
It is you that is assigningsomething to money and you need
to remove yourself from that.
And then money is going to flow intoyour life an entirely different way.
Right.
And we started.
Seeing a patient in our practice thatis the wealthiest, uh, person that lives
in our town in Elmhurst, and I thinkthey live in like a $5 million house.
(03:47):
Now with the average new build inthis town is still pretty steep.
It's like $1.7 million, but theystill live in this house that is
like three times more than that.
Okay.
So this woman comes in andshe is 34 years old, okay?
And she lives in this house and, um.
I generally think of, uh,wealthy people as, uh, I don't
(04:10):
know, like not good people.
I grew up very poor.
Okay.
And I, and I generally think that peoplethat have that much money have probably
made their money in some sort of anunethical way, and therefore they must be.
Not very good people.
Okay?
They, they are high maintenance.
Um, they have unreasonable expectations.
(04:31):
Like these are the kinds ofcolors that come up when I
start to deal with these people.
And I don't like to treat peoplethat have that much money.
I, I, I really don't.
Those are not the patients that I seek.
So this
Dr. Chad Johnson (04:42):
will make, does it even make you nervous?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (04:45):
It doesn't make me nervous 'cause I refuse to do it, right.
So, um.
So nonetheless, she sits down, right?
And she's got, um, a whole bunch ofnew cavities and, um, and, and I tell
her that and she starts to cry and I'mthere for her every step of the way.
And I spent like an hour talking toher like, this is not your fault,
(05:06):
you grew up in a different country.
Um, just, and I'm very, verycompassionate with her and she is so nice.
So nice.
Like I'm like, God clearly gave her thenice gene and I am lacking it because
I am short with people very often.
Like I am really to the point.
Um, I'm like, wow, what wouldit be like to be that nice?
(05:28):
And I tell her that I'm like.
You are such a nice person.
Like she's got these two youngkids and just very, very nice.
I'm just in awe and I leave and Itell everybody in the office, holy
cow, you guys, this woman is so nice.
So she's married to someonemy age who's about 50.
She's his second wife.
Dr. Chad Johnson (05:45):
I.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Yeah, I knew, I figured. (05:46):
undefined
So she comes in and, andshe needs all this work.
She needs a bunch of onlays.
And of course, the other thing is she hasinsurance and she will only go in network.
Okay.
Because she needs to useinsurance benefits, right?
Because, um, her dentist stopped, uh,using, getting, taking the insurance.
(06:08):
So she needs to go to somebody in that.
And I am in network.
Dr. Chad Johnson (06:12):
makes you feel great, doesn't it?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (06:14):
Yeah, right.
Um, like I, I don't know, like her ringis probably, it cost as much as my house.
I, I've never seen anythingthat big in my life.
Um, so.
She, she, we do a crown.
Okay, so she comes in for the appointmenthalf an hour late and she says, um, I
(06:36):
think my dentist did this crown last year.
She says that to me at the appointment.
I need to call themright now and find out.
And I said, look, I have a doctor'svisit with my daughter in an hour, so I
only have an hour, just full disclosure.
Um, so if you're gonna be onthe phone for half an hour, that
might kind of get in the way.
She said, oh, don't worry about it.
(06:57):
We'll get it done real fast.
Okay.
Uh, so she's on the phone forhalf an hour with her dentist.
She's like, can you still do it?
And I said, I can do it, but Iwon't mill the crown today for you.
Because I need to leave in half anhour, but I can get everything done.
So we do that and she's in attempt.
The next day she calls in and shesays, I can't believe she couldn't
(07:19):
mill the, the, the permanent crown.
My old dentist alwaysmade the crown for me.
Okay.
Move on.
But she couldn't come in the next daybecause she had three parties to plan.
And then finally a week later shecomes in and um, I cement the crown.
And the worst thing in the worldthat could ever happen happens, and
(07:39):
there's some cement that gets stuckin approximately, and I'm having
a really hard time getting it out.
Okay.
And so, um.
She can't wait for me to get it out.
And so, uh, I'm doing the bestthat I can, but I can't get it out.
I just need more time.
But she has 20 peoplecoming over to her house.
She throws this insane fit and sheis, I. So unkind and cruel to every
(08:06):
assistant that walks into the room,she makes them feel like garbage.
Uh, I put an interproximal, um,wedge in there to kind of spread
the tea so that I can go in thereand I set a timer for five minutes.
And, uh, she's calling theassistants and she's like, the
doctor needs to come in right now.
And so I go in and she's like,I don't know what to do now,
(08:26):
but I've had it with you.
Um, I am just so unhappy.
You have not made me happyover the last two visits.
First of all, you claim that you're doingcrowns on the same day and then you don't.
And um, now I have this in myteeth and I'm going to Italy
and I don't even wanna go.
And we have a chartered planeand I have a 2-year-old and
(08:47):
there's no one there to help me.
And um, now I have this thing between myteeth and it's this cement and it's just
not a part of my body and you can takeit out and I don't want you to touch me.
And I have 20 people coming overto my house in 20 minutes and
I just don't know what to do.
Um, so she went from beingthis really kind, gentle human
(09:11):
to being this witch, right?
How much does money have to do with that?
That's my story.
Allison Lacoursiere (09:28):
Well, I would ask, probably the first question would
be, have we dealt with patients whohave also been demanding or also been
cruel or also been difficult or alsobeen unkind who have had less money?
Dr. Chad Johnson (09:46):
Yes.
Allison Lacoursiere (09:48):
Yeah.
So the way that I see this isthat money isn't emotional.
It doesn't necessarily hold emotion.
It, it, it, like I said last time,it's neutral and it's a tool.
So, so many people whohave money are incredible.
(10:11):
They're generous.
They donate, they give back.
They, you know, serve theworld in massive ways.
And then there's other peoplewho are like your patient.
And I don't know that money is the thingthat would cause somebody to be that way.
I think it might just be, you know,a coincidence or just a byproduct of
somebody already just feels entitled,who feels their own kind of level of.
(10:37):
Scarcity because again, that scarcityof kindness, that scarcity of love,
that scarcity of patience, even thoughshe might not have a scarcity of money.
So I don't know if they're correlated.
Dr. Chad Johnson (10:49):
Mm-hmm.
Regan Robertson (10:52):
It's interesting because Maggie, in your story,
you know, we, looking at it froman energetic standpoint, I do
think that people can be, um.
To Allison, to your point, you know,whether they have a lot of money
or they don't have any money, liketheir energetic state is gonna be
impacted by external and internalfactors going on in any given moment.
Um, I mean, I'm known as being asuper bubbly person for the most part.
(11:16):
And people say, oh, even whenshe's mad, she's not really mad.
But there was a time just.
A few weeks ago when I was having troublechecking out of a grocery store, I had
my card, like the chip wasn't workingand I was late to my son's, like I was
going to be late to my son's recital.
I thought I was being fine and Ididn't think I was being rude at all.
I was just trying to help this cashierwith like maybe a different card or
(11:38):
a different option, and she says tome like, I'm smiling, and she says,
if you would just stop talking.
I could help you.
And I remember thinking, oh,oh, I'm the bad one here.
Like, uh oh.
and I only bring that up becauseit, you know, money was a factor.
Like speed was a factor, but I just,all of the emotions that sit around it.
So as much as I would like to say it wasjust my son's recital and I knew I have
(12:01):
three other cards, like I would be sure topay out, there's probably something there.
Um, around money.
It's a sensitive.
Topic.
So Allison, my question for youis how did you get into even,
um, helping people coach throughmoney and the value of money, the
energy of money and all of that?
Like, I'm highly curious whatstarted that journey for you.
Allison Lacoursiere (12:21):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
It was very organic from first andforemost being a treatment coordinator.
You sit in the room with people Yeah.
Talking about money all the time.
And I remember.
Talking to patients about allon four cases where, you know,
it's, it's a, it's a large fee.
And it was interesting to me to see likethe different ways people were responding.
(12:43):
Some of them were very abundancemindset, and they're like, let's go.
I've got, I'm gonna pay this in cash.
This is something that I desire.
I want this.
And then other people were very,like, fearful, some ashamed.
And so I started gettingreally curious about that.
But then the real moment where I'm like,I, I have the opportunity to figure this
out, was when I started my own business.
I started to recognize that money isan energy and it's also a mirror for
(13:09):
our own lives, for our own history, forour own childhood, for our experiences,
and it's also a story for all of us.
And so when I learned some of the ways formyself as an entrepreneur to get better.
Personally with the storythat I have around money, like
it's neutral, it's a tool.
Um, it's infinite.
(13:30):
Just because I have more moneydoesn't mean that Maggie has less.
Just because Chad has more moneydoesn't mean that I have less.
It, it's infinite and that it gets tobe leveraged for really powerful things.
I was able to reduce my shame aroundit, reduce my fear around it, and
reduce my scarcity when I kind ofrecognized what it was and that
was so deeply impactful for me.
I recognize so many of the other doctorsentrepreneurs that I was coaching,
(13:52):
their results were so often basedon their own mindset around money.
So if we have a TC that goes in to presenta $6,000 case with an Invisalign or
clear aligners, how they feel about thatis gonna influence a result of whether
or not that patient says yes or no.
And so this became somethinglike imperative to me to kind of
like heal my own money wounds.
(14:14):
Also recognize that my results inmy business and my life were going
to be, in many ways determinedby how I felt about this tool.
So it was very organic.
But now for me, something that hasbeen super, super helpful is that I.
It helps me not step into scarcity becausescarcity is one of those things that I
(14:36):
think causes us to feel or be or show upin a way that really isn't that powerful.
So Reagan, like when you were goingthrough that, you had a scarcity of time
and scarcity of time and scarcity of moneyare very often are related, but you know,
the way we show up, if we have a scarcityof money, we're not very nice to people.
We're not very kind to others.
(14:57):
We're not very generous.
Everything's kind of like grippy.
If we are abundant with money,we're generous, we're more
caring, we're more giving.
Same thing with abundanceand scarcity of time.
So, and as you said, wanna say, well
Regan Robertson (15:09):
you just mentioned I wanna hang, I wanna go back two steps.
You mentioned money woundsand so the under driving, why?
'cause I really thought about this.
You guys know, I thought about thisinteraction and I actually thought
I should take her something likeshould I take her flowers later?
Just, did I ruin her day?
I had an event when I was much younger,I think it was in my twenties, where
I didn't have money in my account,and I was at a grocery store with
(15:32):
a huge thing of groceries and mycard would not go through, and
that was so embarrassing for me.
the checker, she handled it so gracefully.
I remember how kind she was.
They kept my groceries.
I was able to go get cash andlike figure it out, but that.
I remember how embarrassing that was.
So even if consciously, it wastime that I was putting it on,
(15:54):
you know, you have to know, right?
It has to be a money wound.
There was something subconscious.
Mm-hmm.
That everybody's line was backed up.
That was the other thing.
So everybody was busy.
There were lots of people behindme and you know, I mean, I just
really feel, even though it wasn'tconscious, there had to be that, ugh.
Like that moment.
Allison Lacoursiere (16:10):
Embarrassment.
Regan Robertson (16:11):
Embarrassment.
That probably added edge to what Iwas saying without even realizing it.
So tell me about money wounds.
Like how do you walk peoplethrough identifying those?
Gosh.
Allison Lacoursiere (16:21):
Okay.
So this is, Maggie had a coupleof them when she was telling her
story and she's just aware of them.
But the question that I askedpeople was what did people say about
money when you were growing up?
Regan Robertson (16:33):
For me, I had the very, well, I don't know about the very
first time, but I had a really traumaticevent because my parents were in Alaska
and the real estate market crashed andthey had multiple homes that they were
renting and they could no longer rentthem for what the mortgage payment was.
So my very first interaction was,we're selling, you know, we're walking
(16:56):
away from all of this real estate andwe're gonna move down to Washington.
And it was, yeah, so it was, um, very,I would say definitely scarcity mindset.
But my parents are so optimistic that,you know, it was, it doesn't matter.
And my dad has always said,you will be provided for even
if it looks like you moaned.
And he still says that today, which kindof paired with my focus on a mission.
(17:19):
And you will be provided for mindset.
So maybe that offsets thatwound, but it was scary.
When you're a littlegirl, it's totally scary.
Yeah, so that was kind of likemaybe the most memorable first
interaction with money that I remember.
Allison Lacoursiere (17:33):
Yeah.
Which could potentially bring forwardshame, fear, scarcity, um, lack.
What about you, Maggie, or Chad?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (17:42):
It was complicated.
We lived in under communism where thevalue of money could change on a day.
Where, you know, a hundredz what that could be.
The next day.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I remember, you know, likemoving to America, the day that we
landed in, in America, my dad tookus to um, uh, burger King, and my dad
(18:08):
bought every single one of us a whopper.
And my, my mom, I thought she wasgoing to kill him because he bought
every single one of us a whopper andwe didn't have him the money and that
argument probably went on for a year.
I have not had a whopper since.
(18:28):
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I don't, I don't know what a whoppertastes like anymore since 1990 because
of, because we didn't have the money andmy mom, like, how could you have spent
so much money on four Whoppers whenthe girls could have split a whopper
and we could have split a whopper?
So like, I mean, we, wereally grew up very poor.
Allison Lacoursiere (18:54):
Yeah.
Um.
So probably in that scenario, moneycauses, fights, you know, there's
not enough to go around like that.
Those beliefs from a very youngprobably came forward for you.
Yeah.
How about for you, Chad?
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:10):
Uh, there are two, one in particular, I was, I about five years
old, I had ridden my bike or walked down,uh, three blocks or so to the gas station,
and I wanted to buy a piece of candy.
And I had so much change or whatever,and I walked up to buy this piece of
candy, but I was like 12 cents short.
(19:31):
and this guy was like, oh,here, I'll cover for it.
And I think put down an extra9 cents or something for it.
And I thought that was thecoolest thing in the world.
It was so cool that like this guy, I meanhe's my savior at that point, you know,
like swooping to help me out with this.
And I was just like, man,to be rich, like this guy,
Regan Robertson (19:50):
I love that.
I know.
That's like the best memory.
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:52):
I know, right?
Like I was, I was enthralledbecause I mean, you know, a four or
5-year-old, they want the candy, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, and I, I didn'thave the money for it.
And then, you know, for him to just,he didn't know me and he just offered
it and I was like, what is this?
The other thing was I remember.
Uh, I, my mom worked at the hospital.
(20:12):
She was a nurse there and she had a, uh,we, I'd go to the, the childcare center
there and at the hospital and they hada pool and, uh, they, you were supposed
to pay, I think it was something like$20 a month or, or something like that.
And, uh, to, to, for thepreschoolers to be able to swim.
(20:35):
And I, like, we didn'thave enough money for that.
And so, um, you know, like we, we,we'd have to sit on the side, so there
were like two of us out of the wholeclass that didn't have enough money.
So we would sit on the sidelinesand, and just watch the kids swim.
And I remember my mom, um, you know,being like, well, you know, like,
uh, surely there are other kids?
(20:56):
And I said, well, there's one other kid.
And she was like, you're tellingme that, you know, like, uh,
because it made it sound like Iwas laying it on thick, you know?
She was just like, I. Uh, youknow, like you're telling me that
you're the, the only kid, you know.
And I was like, no, there's one other kid.
And, and she, but I, I just know thatwe didn't have enough money for it.
And, and then she, I could tell that shekind of felt bad that like I was missing
(21:19):
out on an opportunity because we didn'thave enough money and stuff like that.
But I, I kind of didn't care toobecause it was just matter of fact.
It was just like, I mean, if you don'thave the money for it, what do you do?
Right.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
So those are a couple of earlymemories, uh, which were kind of.
You know, fun memories that it'snot like they were scarring,
but they're imprinted there.
Yeah.
Allison Lacoursiere (21:38):
Yeah.
No, totally.
Regan Robertson (21:42):
Oh, listen, I've never, ever, ever in my life met somebody
that could get people down to a thirdlevel of why through the lens of money.
This blows my mind.
by the way, listeners, you'regetting like a coaching session.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (21:54):
Think about doing this for yourself.
Think back through your own firstmemory of money and think about how
that has shaped your view of money.
I mean, um, I, I just did a. Quick, youknow, chat, GPT thing and money as good.
It could provide you freedom and securityopportunities and, you know, be used
(22:16):
generously as a symbol of success but bad.
The way that I understand it or lookat it, it can mean greed, corruption,
it could be a symbol of equality,materialism, stress and conflict, right?
And so, yeah, peoplewanna know so much more.
I wanna, I wanna.
I wanna know about the mere part now.
(22:36):
I mean the, the and, and then even, Imean, I remember when I started working
with PDA, one of the things that welearned is for the treatment plan
coordinators, they feel comfortablepresenting treatment plan amounts
that are equal to how much moneythey have in their savings account.
that blew my mind because as apractitioner and as in this practice,
(22:57):
you can't just go from presentingsingle tooth dentistry to comprehensive
dentistry without additional trainingfor your treatment plan coordinators,
because they will not appear confident.
They'll stumble over their words, theywon't know what to do with themselves.
So true.
From, Hey, this is gonna be $200to, this is gonna be $20,000.
Allison Lacoursiere (23:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So really like money is a reflectionof our subconscious patterns, what we
believe we're worthy of, what we fear,and what we've been conditioned to expect.
And so it's such a beautiful.
(23:39):
Deep dive into some of our subconsciousprogramming that's either helping
us or harming us, depending on whatyou've experienced so far in your life.
So let's say for example, whenyou're growing up, and this is
like my example, um, money doesn'tgrow on trees, rich people are bad.
Um, you have to work really,really hard to get anywhere.
Those were like some of my likenarratives, some of the things
(24:01):
that I was taught to believe.
And so the other thingI was taught was like.
You need to have money to be respected.
So go growing up that way, I'm like,okay, I've gotta work really hard.
Like I've gotta hustle, I've gotta grind.
This is really important.
Um, you know, I was afraidof not having a lot of it.
And so that will lead yousubconsciously to places that
(24:23):
you might not consciously choose.
So if you grow up with a belief that.
Money equals value and respect.
You're gonna really work hard for thatand not really understand consciously why.
And we know that money without familyconnection, joy, passion without all these
things isn't the answer to our happiness.
We know this, but some people willpush towards it because subconsciously
(24:47):
they believe the more money theyhave, the more valuable they are.
And so whatever your money story is,it's so important to uncover that because
subconsciously it's leading you somewhere.
Money, like a knife ora hammer in the hands.
A knife in the hands ofa murderer Kill someone.
Yeah.
A knife in the hands of aloving mom makes dinner.
(25:09):
And so it's, it's such a different way oflooking at it, but many people, especially
kind of in our society, will have levelsof shame and fear and almost like a
taboo around it, and it's not necessary.
As soon as your treatment coordinatorcan uplevel their money mindset and
feel more confident talking aboutit, then they're not bringing their
own shame to the conversation.
(25:29):
They're not bringing theirown fear, their own scarcity.
They just know that this is a transaction.
I know my doctor's gonna help you,and this is what it's gonna look
like for you to be able to get thistreatment done and it's neutral.
Regan Robertson (25:41):
Alice said, I'm super curious in, in how you do this,
because I feel in that, in having usall explain our stories, which was
really powerful in and of itself.
For me, uh, I, I think it's almost likeSchrodinger's cat, like quantum physics.
Like I don't actually look at money.
I look at the mission or what I wannado, and a few years ago, met a brilliant
financial advisor who played themission game, the Why game with me.
(26:06):
And it completely flipped me onhow, how I save, how I think.
But he understood, he seemed to get thatI was mission oriented, so he had me.
Paint my life 10, 15,20 years down the line.
And then he is like, so we will alignyour goals to fulfill the mission.
And all of a sudden I was able,it's just like, it, it, it burst
open, like the highway was cleared.
(26:27):
When, when you are, um, helpingtreatment coordinators, you know, get.
Away from their limiting beliefsor the, the, the beliefs that they
were, you know, brought up withHow do you even, how do you start?
I mean, for me it felt easy 'causeit was mission and why, like, I get
that, but, but let's take Maggie,like, Maggie's, like that's deep stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Like that is deep ingrained.
(26:47):
How do you, how do you even start?
Allison Lacoursiere (26:50):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
I mean, and.
With, when it comes to doctors,clinicians, practice owners, like
this is a beautiful place to startbecause so often our doctor's mindset
will infuse into the team as well.
So if like doctors have a scarcityfeeling towards money or shame around
money or like, we don't talk aboutthat, that's how the team's gonna
also feel in some capacity or another.
(27:11):
And so if with Maggie, like for, foryou, it's really deciding for yourself
first and foremost, pulling outlike, what money story did you have?
Then deciding what money story doyou want and how is it right now
impacting some of the decisions, theactions or the inactions that you
are having in your life, but what isthe result that you actually want?
(27:34):
that's the first step.
It's really deciding whatis it that I actually want?
And then choosing new beliefs onmoney that will actually get you
there, because a belief is just athought that we think again and again.
And Maggie, I know you know inmany ways your story, you've
chosen different thoughts aboutmany other things in your life.
So this is just the exact same thing.
(27:55):
Money often can be more painfulor it can be deeper embedded.
But first things first, just getaware to it and then choose, how
do I really wanna feel about this?
How do I really wanna expand into this?
And what do I really desirefor the outcome of my life?
And then choose beliefs based on that.
So for example, one of the things thatwe talked about in the past was that
I have to work really, really hard.
(28:16):
To get money.
And so I don't really want more ofit because it means more hard work.
Dr. Chad Johnson (28:21):
Hmm.
Allison Lacoursiere (28:22):
But how true really is that, like, is that a capital
T truth where it's like gravity oris it, is that a, a lower T truth?
Because there are many avenues tomake money that don't require time.
And so when you decide money is nota direct exchange of my time or money
doesn't always have to be, then youcan start figuring out different ways.
(28:43):
To earn more, to save more, toinvest more, or to bring in more
that don't necessarily requirethat time, but it first comes
down to the beliefs that you have.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (28:52):
Chad, jump in here,
Dr. Chad Johnson (28:55):
um,
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (28:56):
because you and I have a lot of, we've had a
lot of conversations like about
Dr. Chad Johnson (29:03):
the hustle.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn: About the hustle, yeah. (29:04):
undefined
About like.
I don't like it when you say, I need towork every waking moment to make money.
And I wanna say to you, quit it.
You know?
The truth is the less youwork, the more you make
Dr. Chad Johnson (29:20):
sure.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (29:20):
And my partner's the same way.
He's like, Maggie, I need youin the office five days a week
because I need you to make money.
And my answer is no.
If I work three days a week, I'llwake, I'll make far more money.
Right, because I've seen thathappen It's like, no, I have
to be everywhere all the time.
And it might be to work seven days aweek to make this money, then I will.
Dr. Chad Johnson (29:42):
Yeah.
So I've seen it work before when I've, uh.
Uh, brought my hours available intoscarcity because it's funny, I find that
there needs to be, oh, this is reallydeep, but like, I feel like a lot of
times it's easy to, um, to romanticizeabout abundance, but there's also
(30:06):
something practical to be said aboutscarcity, and I think both need to be, um.
Thought through.
Uh, I don't think that it, it has tobe, if you are an abundance mindset, you
have to hate, it's not as simple as an
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (30:21):
abundance mindset is what you're saying.
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:23):
Say it again to,
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (30:25):
it's not as simple as just having an abundance mindset.
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:28):
Correct.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (30:29):
Right.
Like sometimes it feels like it's hogwash
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:31):
and that they're not mutually exclusive.
Uh, so like when someone says, well, Ijust believe in abundance, it's like.
Yeah, but like that doesn't mean thatyou disagree with scarcity because
if you are in abundance and you haveprovided for your family and you want
to hang out with them, and someonethen, like all your fans, if you have
a, a million fans and they say, if Icould just have one minute with you,
(30:55):
and we just said, well, I believe inabundance, so I'll give you three minutes.
Allison Lacoursiere (30:58):
It's abundance
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:59):
That's it.
Yeah.
And so in order to be abundantwith something, you have to
be scarce with other things.
Yes.
If you want to be abundantwith your family, you have
to be scarce with strangers.
If you wanna be abundant withstrangers, you're going to
be scarce with your family.
And so there's, an interplay betweenthem and Maggie, you're right.
So like I've had a rough lastyear and then you can limit your
(31:22):
supply and control the flow.
Um, just as much as if, you know,there was water flowing through a
hose, you could press on the end andget, you know, like a stream running
out where you could take a drink orpress on it and water the flowers.
You know, like you can spray itdifferent ways, but what if there's
no water coming out of the hose?
You better start digging a well soit implies when you're talking about,
(31:45):
you know, like, hey, just, stick toworking, you know, four days a week.
There was a point where I was justworking, uh, I was doing seven at
noon and that was four days a week.
But that's what I was workingand it was working wonderfully
when I had enough supply.
Right now I don't have enough supplyof people saying, yeah, I want to do
treatment, and so therefore I've got tobasically go look for treatment elsewhere.
(32:11):
Meaning, you know, like I'vepicked up, uh, some jobs elsewhere.
I've gone into Maggie's office.
I have a buddy up in North Dakotaactually that I've gone up to.
And then once a month I go, uh,like a couple hours out of town
and work out there because.
I'm just looking for places where I cando the procedures that I can get paid.
Well doing I, you know, rather than just,you know, saying, well, I could find
(32:33):
something up the street and do fillings.
It's just like anyone can do those,but I've got a skillset and I need
to hunt and find places for that.
Um, so those are my thoughts.
Allison Lacoursiere (32:44):
Yeah.
I mean, Anna like that.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I would love To look at theenergy of abundance versus scarcity.
scarcity feels like urgency control,burnout, overgiving under receiving,
like that constriction feeling.
So you could be in twodifferent situations.
One is like, hmm, I would, I wouldreally like to have more of the
procedures that I wanna do in my life.
(33:05):
I'm gonna think from either scarcitymindset or abundance mindset.
Abundance mindset is calm, decisive,it's generous, it's spacious.
It's trusting in yourself.
It's being able to holdmore and have more.
So from a decision of, Hmm, I wantto bring more money in in the way
that I wanna do it was you operatingfrom an abundance mindset of I wanna
do the procedures that I wanna do.
(33:27):
Scarcity.
would be like, let me just book any day.
Anytime any patient go up thestreet, like I need to get it in.
And so often we don't make thebest decisions when we're coming
from that scarcity mindset.
And so like scarcity of money.
Like I have a hundred dollars where Ihave $0, but there's also, which I think
is probably the most important thing,Energy of scarcity, energy of abundance.
(33:49):
And I will say like as a consultantand a coach, I'd be really curious
to hear all of your thoughts on this.
I can walk into a practice andimmediately I can tell if a practice
owner has a scarcity or an abundancemindset almost immediately.
And the abundance doesn't mean thatthey're overpaying their team or you know,
like making bad decisions in any any way.
(34:11):
It's just they have an abundance of care.
It's an abundance of love.
It's an abundance of generosity.
And most of the time thosepractices are doing better.
They're doing well.
When I come in and I see atpractice, has a lot of scarcity.
Often there's like strife with theteam, like patients have issues.
Like they're kind of likein that, that grippy nature.
And so that's where in decisionsand in choices, we wanna always
(34:36):
operate from that abundance energy.
Typically that abundance energy bringsmore abundance back to you because
you're not operating from urgency, you'renot burning out, you're not overgiving
or not receiving what you deserve.
I see this a lot with doctorslike undercharging, giving way
too many discounts, like just kindof writing off their treatment.
(34:56):
And that often is like scarcityof like lack of value of self.
So again, money gets to be thislike, you know, deeper meaning here.
But that's where I would justencourage anybody to think
like, am I thinking about this?
Am I bringing an energy of scarcity oram I bringing an energy of abundance?
Mm-hmm.
And which one will serve me more?
Regan Robertson (35:17):
Allison, do you coach on behaviors in order
to make that shift occurring?
Because sometimes the practices areunder extreme financial pressure, um,
and or any business owner, for example.
So if you are really stressedout and you have to make payroll.
You know that if you don't makea certain number, it's gonna
(35:37):
be really difficult to do.
I can intimately feel howstressful it would be to try
to stay in an abundant mindset.
Right.
Um, I think it'd be justreally difficult to do.
So I know that, like for myself, Itake away looking at the number and
I instead focus on the behaviors.
What is it that you do to help turn thosepractices around if they're sitting in
(35:58):
scarcity and you can feel it right away?
Allison Lacoursiere (36:01):
Yeah.
I mean.
I would just love to ask you thisquestion back, um, and then I'll,
I'll give you my response, but if thatperson was looking at like, oh my gosh,
like, how am I gonna make payroll andI don't know how to do it, do you think
that they would be more successfulin figuring it out in a scarcity
mindset or in an abundance mindset?
Regan Robertson (36:18):
Oh, I think of abundance and scarcity as fear and,
uh, hope, I guess so I, or good,or like high energy or low energy.
That's the best way to say it.
Not even good or bad.
High energy or low energy.
More high attract, morehigh, more low attract.
More low.
So if I am in a really crunchy situation,I will ask myself, this is my flip.
I will say, how can I makethis a high energy situation?
(36:41):
So that means, what can I learn from this?
Yes.
Um, what is this teaching me?
What it, what opportunity mightbe existing that I don't see?
And that works.
It sucks at the time 'causeI'm mad and I'm frustrated
and I wanna be anywhere else.
But it's the only way I'vebeen able to be successful.
In flipping my energy.
Allison Lacoursiere (36:59):
Yes, and what you're explaining is actually using a
different part of your brain becauseyou're able to take yourself from your
limbic brain, your fear-based brain,the brain that's telling you to like
control, protect, run, fight, flee thatbrain into your prefrontal cortex, which
you have opportunity for, co-creation,creativity, collaboration, which from
that brain, we solve problems faster.
(37:21):
We solve problems more comprehensively.
So scarcity is fear and it is, wemove into a different part of our
brain in which we are like, I'm gonnafight, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna flee.
And we actually are foggy.
Like our brain is foggy in that state.
And I think we've all been in thatstate, in business and in life and
some point, and we like can't makedecisions like we're feeling burnt
(37:42):
out, we're feeling really rough shape.
We're not being the bestleaders we could be.
We're probably not gettinga whole heck of a lot done.
That's sitting in scarcity mindsetswitching and being able to recognize
that and move into abundance mindsetis how do we solve this problem?
What can we do?
How many ways can we bring this money in?
Who can we like connect with that thenwill be able to solve that problem?
(38:03):
So instead of looking at that situationas abundance for scarcity, look at
the energy in which you're comingto solve the problem with, and my
clinicians that are able to recognize,oh my gosh, I'm scared, but I'm still
gonna be able to get myself into this.
Hopeful, this grateful, thisexpansive part of my brain to
actually solve this problem.
They do it a whole lot faster andthey typically don't continue to
(38:26):
spiral in that same direction.
So there's a lot of neuroscience.
To the emotions that people are havingand how they're showing up in their world.
And so when I talk about behaviors,yes, a hundred percent, we don't want
to make choices and behaviors basedon that scarcity because it's often a
fear-based choice, which often doesn'tresult in a really good decision.
(38:48):
So what we wanna do is flip ourselvesinto that abundance mindset.
It doesn't mean like everything'sgreat and you know, I have money
coming up, down, down trees.
That's not it.
It's still like very tactical, very real.
But how many ways can I solve thisproblem and I'm safe while I'm doing it?
Like reminding yourself that I'm safe.
And those decisions are often waybetter and yield way better results,
(39:13):
and people get themselves outof those situations much faster.
So the decisions and the behavior.
Always stems from what we think, createshow we feel, which creates what we do.
And often people are like trying tochange what they're doing without
understanding how they're feelingand what they're thinking about it.
We have to kinda go back to goforward, if that makes sense.
(39:35):
Mm-hmm.
Regan Robertson (39:36):
Oh, I think it's beautiful.
It really highlights inner work and I,I mean, you've really, you, I can see, I
can see in a, in a heartbeat what it wouldfeel like to go into an office uncover the
bees nest and see how deep it really goes.
Because there is a lot of innerwork and changing behavior alone
takes a lot of effort and Ithink there's a lot of bravery.
(39:56):
To tackle that and say, I'm, I'mgoing to, um, you know, work on
getting out of fight or flight.
Because if you've been under a stressfulsituation for a long time, or like in
Maggie's case, growing up in a reallytraumatic environment, uh, you know,
in the country, let alone just in
The inner dynamics that, thatare in the family itself.
It's a lot of work that has to go into it.
(40:18):
But you must fight for yourself.
I mean, you are the hero of your story.
And so I think what's really fascinatingis I don't think about money as a, as
a victim mindset or a hero's mindset,but you choose it just like you
choose everything else in your life.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (40:32):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But, but listen, like as I'm, as I'm, Imean, we're pretty open people, right?
But there's gotta be times where you are.
Entering an office, let's say somebodyhires you and you're entering a scarcity
mindset office, or you meet a clinician.
You discover this, this cannotbe an easy conversation to have.
(40:55):
I mean, you're talking aboutdrilling down into preconceived
notions of what may or may not havehave happened in somebody's past.
Right?
Digging that out, you're talkingabout connecting the reptilian
brain to the heart, back to thecurrent mind, and then you're asking
someone to continue working with.
(41:16):
The past and the present, and thengoing back and forth, and then possibly
sharing some of that with the teamand then having the team work on that.
because this is a dynamic that I'mstill working with in our office.
My partner actually comes from a veryabundant mentality, uh, about money.
he's like.
It'll take care of itself.
(41:36):
Don't worry about it.
Like he just, he doesn't, you know,like we have not had a great year.
we're 15% down and if you wouldconsider that there would've been
growth, we could be 25% down.
And he's like, don't worry about it.
It'll even itself out while I'mlike, and you could tell why, right?
Like why?
Well, I'm like, I'm scared,but I'm changing, right?
(41:56):
So I'm trying to just surrender and let goand be generous and all of those things.
But there's things that, you know,he's very protective and very private.
and it's taken us years to evenshare numbers with our team because
he's like, no, this is private.
This is ours.
Nobody needs to know that.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so.
(42:16):
These conversations and breaking it downreally in an effort for growth, uh, for
both the practice and the practitioner.
How, how, how
Allison Lacoursiere (42:30):
challenging does that
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (42:31):
get?
Allison Lacoursiere (42:33):
I mean, it's, it's very timely.
So really, like, let's say we wereworking together, Maggie, I would just
be like, what is it that you desire?
Let's, let's dream for a minute.
Let's brainstorm.
Let's get clear.
And we get clear on like, what is thatyou want in your life, in your practice?
How do you wanna feel?
What is it like?
What does day to day look like for you?
(42:53):
That's really, really fun, reallyexpensive, really powerful.
Like, what is it that you want?
And then we create the identityof the person who has that.
What are they thinking?
What are they feeling?
And then how do theyoperate because of that?
And it becomes this kindof pathway to a new normal.
Based on simply what this doctor wants.
So I don't, well, what if I
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (43:14):
tell you I, I want more money.
I wanna be this person that islike my partner where I don't worry
about money, and then you tell me,well, this is how we get there.
And I'm like, no, we're not doing that.
Allison Lacoursiere (43:24):
Well, I mean, as a coach, I never, I'm gonna tell
you how are we gonna get there?
I'm gonna ask you questions onhow you think we should get there.
Based on like, okay, so whatwould, let's just say that you
wanna be like your partner.
I. What thoughts do you think youwould have that would help you
feel that way and do those things?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (43:42):
My brain is not working.
I can't even begin tocomprehend the question.
Allison Lacoursiere (43:47):
A hundred percent.
And I mean, I mean I know thatthis is like one of those things
that we have to get super, superaware of old money beliefs.
Then choose new ones thatmake you feel differently.
And typically we go through, you know,a couple months of this kind of work
in order to start to understand this.
And we're doing it like, youknow, 10 minutes on a podcast
(44:09):
with four people talking.
So it gets to be a little bitdeeper than that, but it really
is coming into like the identity.
This is like identity work of likewhat kind of thoughts would she
think, how would she feel every day?
Let's try those on, let's testthem out, see how they feel.
The moment you do that, you start tobuild new neural pathways that make it
(44:29):
easier for you to do it again and again.
So the first time we test it out andyou're like, ah, this kind of feels good.
It's not gonna feel normal, and you'renot gonna revert to it as a habit.
But over time and repetition, you will.
I.
Regan Robertson (44:43):
This pairs so beautifully with, I'm reading Atomic
Habits right now, and believe it or not,I've never read it before, so be here.
I know it's like the number one thingeverybody should read, but, but I like
the, for you're giving grace, like there'sno way to just flip a switch and all of
a sudden say, okay, I'm at a scarcitynow and I'm going to, move my identity.
I've had a session and howdo you eat an elephant one?
(45:04):
Bite at a time.
It, it takes time.
And I think forgiving yourself and givinga lot of leeway and grace to commit to
a 1% change, a little tiny shift Yeah.
In a repetitive, uh, environmentso that you can make it consistent
and turn it into a habit.
I think that's how.
This ship can actually turn, I mean,for me, it, it has taken years.
(45:27):
It's taken years.
And one of the best pieces ofadvice I ever heard was, I was in
therapy and I said, okay, I've gotthis, I've got this, I've got this.
I laid it all out there andshe said, you know what?
I think this is gonna take a coupleof years and we're gonna attack it
slowly, one bite at a time, and.
Well, I, one, I didn't expecther to say that at all.
I didn't expect her to gimme time.
(45:48):
Um, but she also took all of thispressure off of me immediately.
I suddenly felt like, oh, okay,well this isn't something that I
have to do, drastic things, andfor me, that worked really well.
So any, if you're listing right nowand thinking, you know, okay, great, I
just, you know, heard an hour podcast.
I dunno how I'm gonna be able to changefor me anyway, it was really slow
and over time and before you know it.
(46:11):
You're in the right mindset.
Again, not that I don't slip into scarcitya lot 'cause I still think I've, and I
think I'll always battle that, you know?
Totally.
I'm more cognizant of it now
Allison Lacoursiere (46:20):
and it's normal and it's part of our human experience
is to have automatic negative thoughtsor automatic scarcity thoughts.
It's so normal and it's something thatwe get to choose, like, we get to be at
choice for it when we become aware of it.
And so a hundred percent Reagan likethis, this work takes time, but.
What I always love to say too, and I amobsessed with Atomic Habits, is that we're
(46:43):
gonna get to this time next year anyways.
Like we're gonna be here onJune 27th, this time next year.
Anyways, what we repeat wecreate over this next year.
I. A lot of times we look at likeour habits of like workout, you know,
what are we doing for our savings?
What are we doing for this and that.
But like the question is like, whatare we repeating for our thoughts
(47:04):
over the course of next year?
And even if you just take one newthought that's like, I've got this,
or I am a good person, or, youknow, I, I'm gonna be more abundant
mindset, those thoughts over time.
Will change you into a different persongradually, slowly, and I'm not saying a
different person, it's just making thatpathway a little bit more normal for you.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (47:28):
What really sucks is that we are out of time and
these podcast could go on for another.
Yeah.
Dr. Chad Johnson (47:36):
Oh, that's thinking scarcely
Allison Lacoursiere (47:40):
or abundance,
Dr. Chad Johnson (47:40):
there's two sides to the same knife.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (47:44):
Um, I want your takeaways, Chad and Reagan, and then
I'd like final thoughts from Allison.
Dr. Chad Johnson (47:54):
I'll start.
Um, abundance is, uh,more than money, though.
There's an element of itbecause it's telling of, uh.
Your whole being and yourhistory, and that gets messy.
And, um, because it involves thepsychology of and well in sociology,
(48:20):
like it's just involving you andyour past and more than just you.
And then it involves other people too,because a lot of times, money being in
commerce is how you take care of yourfamily and how you take care of your team
and how you take care of your community.
And so, uh, the, this is multifactorialmaking it a very complex issue.
(48:43):
And, um, simply.
Um, making abundance about, uh, positivethinking, though there's an element
of that, um, would be a misnomer.
And I think those are my takeaways.
Is there any correctionor recalibration to that?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn: They're your takeaways? (49:05):
undefined
Yeah.
Dr. Chad Johnson (49:08):
No, I, I think what I'm asking is that's what I,
um, that's what I thought about.
Uh, is there anything where you're like,well, Chad, you weren't listening, or
I'm, I'm getting better at trying tolisten in the sense that I, like I'll
offer something up and then be like,maybe that's what was going on in my mind.
Um, was I listening?
(49:29):
And then you can say no or yes or kind of
Allison Lacoursiere (49:33):
Yeah.
I mean, I think those are arebeautiful takeaways and I think you're,
you're right in this is that money.
Get it.
It can be complex.
It can be an indication of our past.
Our, our feelings are, you know,programming and it really gets to
be, you know, it's a reflection.
It's just a reflection.
So, um, I love your takeaways.
I think you did a great job.
(49:54):
Yes.
Regan Robertson (49:55):
Yes.
Brilliant, brilliant way to unlocksomebody's third level of why,
uh, through the lens of manyabsolutely riveting conversation.
I know you're gonna help a lot ofpeople, and just as I assumed, which we
never wanna assume, you bring love andlight to this topic just like you do.
(50:16):
Everything.
And I guess if I have one takeaway,I know myself when I am not afraid,
if I feel, um, like anythingis possible, I perform my best.
I am the most successful.
And, um, things do work out.
And it is a challenge when times are toughto stay in that vibration, which is life.
It is a challenge.
(50:36):
Yeah.
It should be hard.
And, um, you know, at times.
So that, that is the biggame that we play and.
Success requires support.
So I'm really grateful, Allison, that youare a guide for especially those times
when it is hard and we can't go it alone.
We're not designed to do it alone.
So thank you for, for coming in andhelping what no doubt will be thousands
(50:57):
of people that impact millions of life.
Allison Lacoursiere (51:00):
Thank you.
Um,
Regan Robertson (51:02):
closing thoughts
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (51:03):
Allison?
Allison Lacoursiere (51:06):
Yeah.
I would say within your ownreflections on this, wherever you are.
One of the most important thingsis you don't make yourself wrong
for whatever money, energy you comeup with, you're like, holy smokes,
like got some stuff back there.
Don't make yourself wrong for it.
That awareness is the first steptowards changing it and towards having
what you desire, because so oftenwe are run by our subconscious mind.
(51:31):
It, when we bring that subconsciousbelief into our conscious, that's
how we get to make different choices.
So don't make yourself wrong for it.
Then I would just say get curious andsee what happens when you come from
life with an abundance mindset, likeReagan said, like get curious, like
is it true that you perform your best?
Is it true that you're the kindest?
(51:52):
Is it true that you have the most fun?
I would put money on itthat you, that you would.
And then I would also sayreally allow yourself to release
the emotion around money.
It's not good or bad.
It is a tool and when we can use it asan empowered tool, that's how we start
(52:14):
to set ourselves free from, from manyof the ways that it can make us feel
small or shameful or wrong, or lack.
And that again, one of the kindest thingswe can do for ourselves because it really
does affect so many parts of our life.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (52:30):
Every time I talk to you, I just see you grow more and
more, and I am always inspired by you.
I feel so lucky to have steppedinto this path where I get to
run into you every now and again.
And this is just one ofthese examples and, um.
I'm sure you don't know this, whichis what I'm going to tell you.
Every now and again, I, I have theseteam meetings and when I come from a
(52:53):
place where I want to inspire someone,uh, on my team, I always tell them
the story about, not everything aboutwho you are, but who you are now and
how you started as a dental assistant.
And they glow.
When I tell them about you, andthey feel inspired and empowered,
(53:15):
and that's how I see you.
And I think anybody that you comeinto contact with, um, you, you just
have this talent for, um, for, forallowing the very best parts to come
out of them, even if it takes a littlebit of work for them, um, to grow.
(53:39):
it's just so worth it.
And so I, I really just want to honoryou with this time and this podcast
and wanna thank you for your time withus and just give us a little bit of
how people can get in touch with you.
I know you're changing yourbranding a little bit and
you've changed your website.
And just give us a, a fewmoments about, uh, how that's
(54:00):
changed and how we can find you.
Allison Lacoursiere: Maggie, thank you so much. (54:03):
undefined
It's always such a pleasure andan honor to be in your energy.
You're just such a brilliant,brilliant human being.
Um, so thank you for all ofyou for having me on today.
And if you want to reach out to me,you can find me@alisonlucier.com,
which I know is a risk because itmeans that a lot of people need to
learn how to sell my last C, so.
It is Alison, L-A-C-O-U-R-S-I-E-R e.com.
(54:28):
You can also find me on Instagram.
Um, and I do have a free three daychallenge that helps people go from
scarcities to abundance thinking.
And it's, it's just a reallyfun three day challenge.
So happy for anybody tocome in and take that.
Um, but thank you.
Thank you all for having me here.
Regan Robertson (54:46):
Thank you, Alison.
Dr. Chad Johnson (54:47):
Thanks for joining.
welcome to Everyday Practices Dental podcast with my
amazing host Reagan Robertson and Dr.
Chad Johnson.
And today on a very special Friday,we have this incredible guest.
Our very, very good friend, Alison Laier,who is this incredible powerhouse she is.
(00:22):
Um.
She has a very special place in myheart, and she has a, a very special
place in many people's hearts.
Uh, she's stepping into this beautifulreality of redefining herself.
And so it is an honor to haveher on this podcast, but she, um.
(00:43):
She redefines reality for a lot of people.
And the last time her and I spoke,she really opened up my eyes to
seeing something very differently.
And today's, uh, subject is going tobe money the way that we look at money.
(01:03):
So, hi Chad.
Hi Reagan.
And
Regan Robertson (01:08):
listen.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (01:09):
Hello.
Regan Robertson (01:11):
Welcome, Alison.
We are so excited.
I, I can't remember the lasttime I saw you in person.
Uh, I remember memorable times thoughwhere I have seen you in person and
your soul just radiates optimism andhope and light and throughout, um,
your career evolution in dentistry.
You carried that through, like thatis just intuitive to your soul.
(01:33):
And so to apply that to money, whichcan cause a lot of fear and tension and
scarcity and all that good stuff, I thinkit's gonna be a great conversation today.
Allison Lacoursiere (01:44):
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be here.
And similar like feelings to all of you.
All of you bring so much joy to me andjust the positive energy, the optimism,
the joy, the fun that I have withall three of you is just astounding.
So.
It's gonna be a good day.
Dr. Chad Johnson (01:59):
Alison, was it last year the dentist Money Up?
Uh, money Summit?
Were you there?
Allison Lacoursiere (02:04):
I wasn't.
I was at the PDA.
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:06):
Was it that, and just one other thing.
Were you at the in Teleconconference last year?
I. Okay.
I was trying to remember where Italked with you last in person.
So remember it was in a large conferenceroom, but you know, it can be anywhere.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn: 20th anniversary, PDA, (02:20):
undefined
Regan Robertson (02:23):
that's it.
All the cheerleaders.
Chad, so you're saying theAllison attends high caliber, very
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:28):
darn right.
Regan Robertson (02:30):
Awesome events.
Is
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:31):
that out of all the places that you've probably been?
I can't keep track of it all, so, yeah.
Allison Lacoursiere: That was the best one. (02:35):
undefined
The 20th and Roser was the best one.
Yeah, that it was
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:39):
a good
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (02:39):
Okay, so let's get, let's get into it.
Okay.
Because, um, there's,there's disagreement.
And I love this because within thiscrowd we're definitely going to have some
really exciting discussion about money.
So when Allison and I were talking,this idea of money and what it means
and how we look at money came up becauseI have an attachment to money, and the
(03:04):
way that I look at money is negative.
I assign money, uh, Idon't know, a judgment.
I look at money as bad.
Okay?
And I'm gonna tell you astory to get us started.
So, and I'm trying to break thatattachment because after my conversation
with Allison, what Allison opened up myeyes to is, money is neither good or bad.
(03:27):
It is you that is assigningsomething to money and you need
to remove yourself from that.
And then money is going to flow intoyour life an entirely different way.
Right.
And we started.
Seeing a patient in our practice thatis the wealthiest, uh, person that lives
in our town in Elmhurst, and I thinkthey live in like a $5 million house.
(03:47):
Now with the average new build inthis town is still pretty steep.
It's like $1.7 million, but theystill live in this house that is
like three times more than that.
Okay.
So this woman comes in andshe is 34 years old, okay?
And she lives in this house and, um.
I generally think of, uh,wealthy people as, uh, I don't
(04:10):
know, like not good people.
I grew up very poor.
Okay.
And I, and I generally think that peoplethat have that much money have probably
made their money in some sort of anunethical way, and therefore they must be.
Not very good people.
Okay?
They, they are high maintenance.
Um, they have unreasonable expectations.
(04:31):
Like these are the kinds ofcolors that come up when I
start to deal with these people.
And I don't like to treat peoplethat have that much money.
I, I, I really don't.
Those are not the patients that I seek.
So this
Dr. Chad Johnson (04:42):
will make, does it even make you nervous?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (04:45):
It doesn't make me nervous 'cause I refuse to do it, right.
So, um.
So nonetheless, she sits down, right?
And she's got, um, a whole bunch ofnew cavities and, um, and, and I tell
her that and she starts to cry and I'mthere for her every step of the way.
And I spent like an hour talking toher like, this is not your fault,
(05:06):
you grew up in a different country.
Um, just, and I'm very, verycompassionate with her and she is so nice.
So nice.
Like I'm like, God clearly gave her thenice gene and I am lacking it because
I am short with people very often.
Like I am really to the point.
Um, I'm like, wow, what wouldit be like to be that nice?
(05:28):
And I tell her that I'm like.
You are such a nice person.
Like she's got these two youngkids and just very, very nice.
I'm just in awe and I leave and Itell everybody in the office, holy
cow, you guys, this woman is so nice.
So she's married to someonemy age who's about 50.
She's his second wife.
Dr. Chad Johnson (05:45):
I.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Yeah, I knew, I figured. (05:46):
undefined
So she comes in and, andshe needs all this work.
She needs a bunch of onlays.
And of course, the other thing is she hasinsurance and she will only go in network.
Okay.
Because she needs to useinsurance benefits, right?
Because, um, her dentist stopped, uh,using, getting, taking the insurance.
(06:08):
So she needs to go to somebody in that.
And I am in network.
Dr. Chad Johnson (06:12):
makes you feel great, doesn't it?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (06:14):
Yeah, right.
Um, like I, I don't know, like her ringis probably, it cost as much as my house.
I, I've never seen anythingthat big in my life.
Um, so.
She, she, we do a crown.
Okay, so she comes in for the appointmenthalf an hour late and she says, um, I
(06:36):
think my dentist did this crown last year.
She says that to me at the appointment.
I need to call themright now and find out.
And I said, look, I have a doctor'svisit with my daughter in an hour, so I
only have an hour, just full disclosure.
Um, so if you're gonna be onthe phone for half an hour, that
might kind of get in the way.
She said, oh, don't worry about it.
(06:57):
We'll get it done real fast.
Okay.
Uh, so she's on the phone forhalf an hour with her dentist.
She's like, can you still do it?
And I said, I can do it, but Iwon't mill the crown today for you.
Because I need to leave in half anhour, but I can get everything done.
So we do that and she's in attempt.
The next day she calls in and shesays, I can't believe she couldn't
(07:19):
mill the, the, the permanent crown.
My old dentist alwaysmade the crown for me.
Okay.
Move on.
But she couldn't come in the next daybecause she had three parties to plan.
And then finally a week later shecomes in and um, I cement the crown.
And the worst thing in the worldthat could ever happen happens, and
(07:39):
there's some cement that gets stuckin approximately, and I'm having
a really hard time getting it out.
Okay.
And so, um.
She can't wait for me to get it out.
And so, uh, I'm doing the bestthat I can, but I can't get it out.
I just need more time.
But she has 20 peoplecoming over to her house.
She throws this insane fit and sheis, I. So unkind and cruel to every
(08:06):
assistant that walks into the room,she makes them feel like garbage.
Uh, I put an interproximal, um,wedge in there to kind of spread
the tea so that I can go in thereand I set a timer for five minutes.
And, uh, she's calling theassistants and she's like, the
doctor needs to come in right now.
And so I go in and she's like,I don't know what to do now,
(08:26):
but I've had it with you.
Um, I am just so unhappy.
You have not made me happyover the last two visits.
First of all, you claim that you're doingcrowns on the same day and then you don't.
And um, now I have this in myteeth and I'm going to Italy
and I don't even wanna go.
And we have a chartered planeand I have a 2-year-old and
(08:47):
there's no one there to help me.
And um, now I have this thing between myteeth and it's this cement and it's just
not a part of my body and you can takeit out and I don't want you to touch me.
And I have 20 people coming overto my house in 20 minutes and
I just don't know what to do.
Um, so she went from beingthis really kind, gentle human
(09:11):
to being this witch, right?
How much does money have to do with that?
That's my story.
Allison Lacoursiere (09:28):
Well, I would ask, probably the first question would
be, have we dealt with patients whohave also been demanding or also been
cruel or also been difficult or alsobeen unkind who have had less money?
Dr. Chad Johnson (09:46):
Yes.
Allison Lacoursiere (09:48):
Yeah.
So the way that I see this isthat money isn't emotional.
It doesn't necessarily hold emotion.
It, it, it, like I said last time,it's neutral and it's a tool.
So, so many people whohave money are incredible.
(10:11):
They're generous.
They donate, they give back.
They, you know, serve theworld in massive ways.
And then there's other peoplewho are like your patient.
And I don't know that money is the thingthat would cause somebody to be that way.
I think it might just be, you know,a coincidence or just a byproduct of
somebody already just feels entitled,who feels their own kind of level of.
(10:37):
Scarcity because again, that scarcityof kindness, that scarcity of love,
that scarcity of patience, even thoughshe might not have a scarcity of money.
So I don't know if they're correlated.
Dr. Chad Johnson (10:49):
Mm-hmm.
Regan Robertson (10:52):
It's interesting because Maggie, in your story,
you know, we, looking at it froman energetic standpoint, I do
think that people can be, um.
To Allison, to your point, you know,whether they have a lot of money
or they don't have any money, liketheir energetic state is gonna be
impacted by external and internalfactors going on in any given moment.
Um, I mean, I'm known as being asuper bubbly person for the most part.
(11:16):
And people say, oh, even whenshe's mad, she's not really mad.
But there was a time just.
A few weeks ago when I was having troublechecking out of a grocery store, I had
my card, like the chip wasn't workingand I was late to my son's, like I was
going to be late to my son's recital.
I thought I was being fine and Ididn't think I was being rude at all.
I was just trying to help this cashierwith like maybe a different card or
(11:38):
a different option, and she says tome like, I'm smiling, and she says,
if you would just stop talking.
I could help you.
And I remember thinking, oh,oh, I'm the bad one here.
Like, uh oh.
and I only bring that up becauseit, you know, money was a factor.
Like speed was a factor, but I just,all of the emotions that sit around it.
So as much as I would like to say it wasjust my son's recital and I knew I have
(12:01):
three other cards, like I would be sure topay out, there's probably something there.
Um, around money.
It's a sensitive.
Topic.
So Allison, my question for youis how did you get into even,
um, helping people coach throughmoney and the value of money, the
energy of money and all of that?
Like, I'm highly curious whatstarted that journey for you.
Allison Lacoursiere (12:21):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
It was very organic from first andforemost being a treatment coordinator.
You sit in the room with people Yeah.
Talking about money all the time.
And I remember.
Talking to patients about allon four cases where, you know,
it's, it's a, it's a large fee.
And it was interesting to me to see likethe different ways people were responding.
(12:43):
Some of them were very abundancemindset, and they're like, let's go.
I've got, I'm gonna pay this in cash.
This is something that I desire.
I want this.
And then other people were very,like, fearful, some ashamed.
And so I started gettingreally curious about that.
But then the real moment where I'm like,I, I have the opportunity to figure this
out, was when I started my own business.
I started to recognize that money isan energy and it's also a mirror for
(13:09):
our own lives, for our own history, forour own childhood, for our experiences,
and it's also a story for all of us.
And so when I learned some of the ways formyself as an entrepreneur to get better.
Personally with the storythat I have around money, like
it's neutral, it's a tool.
Um, it's infinite.
(13:30):
Just because I have more moneydoesn't mean that Maggie has less.
Just because Chad has more moneydoesn't mean that I have less.
It, it's infinite and that it gets tobe leveraged for really powerful things.
I was able to reduce my shame aroundit, reduce my fear around it, and
reduce my scarcity when I kind ofrecognized what it was and that
was so deeply impactful for me.
I recognize so many of the other doctorsentrepreneurs that I was coaching,
(13:52):
their results were so often basedon their own mindset around money.
So if we have a TC that goes in to presenta $6,000 case with an Invisalign or
clear aligners, how they feel about thatis gonna influence a result of whether
or not that patient says yes or no.
And so this became somethinglike imperative to me to kind of
like heal my own money wounds.
(14:14):
Also recognize that my results inmy business and my life were going
to be, in many ways determinedby how I felt about this tool.
So it was very organic.
But now for me, something that hasbeen super, super helpful is that I.
It helps me not step into scarcity becausescarcity is one of those things that I
(14:36):
think causes us to feel or be or show upin a way that really isn't that powerful.
So Reagan, like when you were goingthrough that, you had a scarcity of time
and scarcity of time and scarcity of moneyare very often are related, but you know,
the way we show up, if we have a scarcityof money, we're not very nice to people.
We're not very kind to others.
(14:57):
We're not very generous.
Everything's kind of like grippy.
If we are abundant with money,we're generous, we're more
caring, we're more giving.
Same thing with abundanceand scarcity of time.
So, and as you said, wanna say, well
Regan Robertson (15:09):
you just mentioned I wanna hang, I wanna go back two steps.
You mentioned money woundsand so the under driving, why?
'cause I really thought about this.
You guys know, I thought about thisinteraction and I actually thought
I should take her something likeshould I take her flowers later?
Just, did I ruin her day?
I had an event when I was much younger,I think it was in my twenties, where
I didn't have money in my account,and I was at a grocery store with
(15:32):
a huge thing of groceries and mycard would not go through, and
that was so embarrassing for me.
the checker, she handled it so gracefully.
I remember how kind she was.
They kept my groceries.
I was able to go get cash andlike figure it out, but that.
I remember how embarrassing that was.
So even if consciously, it wastime that I was putting it on,
(15:54):
you know, you have to know, right?
It has to be a money wound.
There was something subconscious.
Mm-hmm.
That everybody's line was backed up.
That was the other thing.
So everybody was busy.
There were lots of people behindme and you know, I mean, I just
really feel, even though it wasn'tconscious, there had to be that, ugh.
Like that moment.
Allison Lacoursiere (16:10):
Embarrassment.
Regan Robertson (16:11):
Embarrassment.
That probably added edge to what Iwas saying without even realizing it.
So tell me about money wounds.
Like how do you walk peoplethrough identifying those?
Gosh.
Allison Lacoursiere (16:21):
Okay.
So this is, Maggie had a coupleof them when she was telling her
story and she's just aware of them.
But the question that I askedpeople was what did people say about
money when you were growing up?
Regan Robertson (16:33):
For me, I had the very, well, I don't know about the very
first time, but I had a really traumaticevent because my parents were in Alaska
and the real estate market crashed andthey had multiple homes that they were
renting and they could no longer rentthem for what the mortgage payment was.
So my very first interaction was,we're selling, you know, we're walking
(16:56):
away from all of this real estate andwe're gonna move down to Washington.
And it was, yeah, so it was, um, very,I would say definitely scarcity mindset.
But my parents are so optimistic that,you know, it was, it doesn't matter.
And my dad has always said,you will be provided for even
if it looks like you moaned.
And he still says that today, which kindof paired with my focus on a mission.
(17:19):
And you will be provided for mindset.
So maybe that offsets thatwound, but it was scary.
When you're a littlegirl, it's totally scary.
Yeah, so that was kind of likemaybe the most memorable first
interaction with money that I remember.
Allison Lacoursiere (17:33):
Yeah.
Which could potentially bring forwardshame, fear, scarcity, um, lack.
What about you, Maggie, or Chad?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (17:42):
It was complicated.
We lived in under communism where thevalue of money could change on a day.
Where, you know, a hundredz what that could be.
The next day.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I remember, you know, likemoving to America, the day that we
landed in, in America, my dad tookus to um, uh, burger King, and my dad
(18:08):
bought every single one of us a whopper.
And my, my mom, I thought she wasgoing to kill him because he bought
every single one of us a whopper andwe didn't have him the money and that
argument probably went on for a year.
I have not had a whopper since.
(18:28):
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I don't, I don't know what a whoppertastes like anymore since 1990 because
of, because we didn't have the money andmy mom, like, how could you have spent
so much money on four Whoppers whenthe girls could have split a whopper
and we could have split a whopper?
So like, I mean, we, wereally grew up very poor.
Allison Lacoursiere (18:54):
Yeah.
Um.
So probably in that scenario, moneycauses, fights, you know, there's
not enough to go around like that.
Those beliefs from a very youngprobably came forward for you.
Yeah.
How about for you, Chad?
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:10):
Uh, there are two, one in particular, I was, I about five years
old, I had ridden my bike or walked down,uh, three blocks or so to the gas station,
and I wanted to buy a piece of candy.
And I had so much change or whatever,and I walked up to buy this piece of
candy, but I was like 12 cents short.
(19:31):
and this guy was like, oh,here, I'll cover for it.
And I think put down an extra9 cents or something for it.
And I thought that was thecoolest thing in the world.
It was so cool that like this guy, I meanhe's my savior at that point, you know,
like swooping to help me out with this.
And I was just like, man,to be rich, like this guy,
Regan Robertson (19:50):
I love that.
I know.
That's like the best memory.
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:52):
I know, right?
Like I was, I was enthralledbecause I mean, you know, a four or
5-year-old, they want the candy, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, and I, I didn'thave the money for it.
And then, you know, for him to just,he didn't know me and he just offered
it and I was like, what is this?
The other thing was I remember.
Uh, I, my mom worked at the hospital.
(20:12):
She was a nurse there and she had a, uh,we, I'd go to the, the childcare center
there and at the hospital and they hada pool and, uh, they, you were supposed
to pay, I think it was something like$20 a month or, or something like that.
And, uh, to, to, for thepreschoolers to be able to swim.
(20:35):
And I, like, we didn'thave enough money for that.
And so, um, you know, like we, we,we'd have to sit on the side, so there
were like two of us out of the wholeclass that didn't have enough money.
So we would sit on the sidelinesand, and just watch the kids swim.
And I remember my mom, um, you know,being like, well, you know, like,
uh, surely there are other kids?
(20:56):
And I said, well, there's one other kid.
And she was like, you're tellingme that, you know, like, uh,
because it made it sound like Iwas laying it on thick, you know?
She was just like, I. Uh, youknow, like you're telling me that
you're the, the only kid, you know.
And I was like, no, there's one other kid.
And, and she, but I, I just know thatwe didn't have enough money for it.
And, and then she, I could tell that shekind of felt bad that like I was missing
(21:19):
out on an opportunity because we didn'thave enough money and stuff like that.
But I, I kind of didn't care toobecause it was just matter of fact.
It was just like, I mean, if you don'thave the money for it, what do you do?
Right.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
So those are a couple of earlymemories, uh, which were kind of.
You know, fun memories that it'snot like they were scarring,
but they're imprinted there.
Yeah.
Allison Lacoursiere (21:38):
Yeah.
No, totally.
Regan Robertson (21:42):
Oh, listen, I've never, ever, ever in my life met somebody
that could get people down to a thirdlevel of why through the lens of money.
This blows my mind.
by the way, listeners, you'regetting like a coaching session.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (21:54):
Think about doing this for yourself.
Think back through your own firstmemory of money and think about how
that has shaped your view of money.
I mean, um, I, I just did a. Quick, youknow, chat, GPT thing and money as good.
It could provide you freedom and securityopportunities and, you know, be used
(22:16):
generously as a symbol of success but bad.
The way that I understand it or lookat it, it can mean greed, corruption,
it could be a symbol of equality,materialism, stress and conflict, right?
And so, yeah, peoplewanna know so much more.
I wanna, I wanna.
I wanna know about the mere part now.
(22:36):
I mean the, the and, and then even, Imean, I remember when I started working
with PDA, one of the things that welearned is for the treatment plan
coordinators, they feel comfortablepresenting treatment plan amounts
that are equal to how much moneythey have in their savings account.
that blew my mind because as apractitioner and as in this practice,
(22:57):
you can't just go from presentingsingle tooth dentistry to comprehensive
dentistry without additional trainingfor your treatment plan coordinators,
because they will not appear confident.
They'll stumble over their words, theywon't know what to do with themselves.
So true.
From, Hey, this is gonna be $200to, this is gonna be $20,000.
Allison Lacoursiere (23:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So really like money is a reflectionof our subconscious patterns, what we
believe we're worthy of, what we fear,and what we've been conditioned to expect.
And so it's such a beautiful.
(23:39):
Deep dive into some of our subconsciousprogramming that's either helping
us or harming us, depending on whatyou've experienced so far in your life.
So let's say for example, whenyou're growing up, and this is
like my example, um, money doesn'tgrow on trees, rich people are bad.
Um, you have to work really,really hard to get anywhere.
Those were like some of my likenarratives, some of the things
(24:01):
that I was taught to believe.
And so the other thingI was taught was like.
You need to have money to be respected.
So go growing up that way, I'm like,okay, I've gotta work really hard.
Like I've gotta hustle, I've gotta grind.
This is really important.
Um, you know, I was afraidof not having a lot of it.
And so that will lead yousubconsciously to places that
(24:23):
you might not consciously choose.
So if you grow up with a belief that.
Money equals value and respect.
You're gonna really work hard for thatand not really understand consciously why.
And we know that money without familyconnection, joy, passion without all these
things isn't the answer to our happiness.
We know this, but some people willpush towards it because subconsciously
(24:47):
they believe the more money theyhave, the more valuable they are.
And so whatever your money story is,it's so important to uncover that because
subconsciously it's leading you somewhere.
Money, like a knife ora hammer in the hands.
A knife in the hands ofa murderer Kill someone.
Yeah.
A knife in the hands of aloving mom makes dinner.
(25:09):
And so it's, it's such a different way oflooking at it, but many people, especially
kind of in our society, will have levelsof shame and fear and almost like a
taboo around it, and it's not necessary.
As soon as your treatment coordinatorcan uplevel their money mindset and
feel more confident talking aboutit, then they're not bringing their
own shame to the conversation.
(25:29):
They're not bringing theirown fear, their own scarcity.
They just know that this is a transaction.
I know my doctor's gonna help you,and this is what it's gonna look
like for you to be able to get thistreatment done and it's neutral.
Regan Robertson (25:41):
Alice said, I'm super curious in, in how you do this,
because I feel in that, in having usall explain our stories, which was
really powerful in and of itself.
For me, uh, I, I think it's almost likeSchrodinger's cat, like quantum physics.
Like I don't actually look at money.
I look at the mission or what I wannado, and a few years ago, met a brilliant
financial advisor who played themission game, the Why game with me.
(26:06):
And it completely flipped me onhow, how I save, how I think.
But he understood, he seemed to get thatI was mission oriented, so he had me.
Paint my life 10, 15,20 years down the line.
And then he is like, so we will alignyour goals to fulfill the mission.
And all of a sudden I was able,it's just like, it, it, it burst
open, like the highway was cleared.
(26:27):
When, when you are, um, helpingtreatment coordinators, you know, get.
Away from their limiting beliefsor the, the, the beliefs that they
were, you know, brought up withHow do you even, how do you start?
I mean, for me it felt easy 'causeit was mission and why, like, I get
that, but, but let's take Maggie,like, Maggie's, like that's deep stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Like that is deep ingrained.
(26:47):
How do you, how do you even start?
Allison Lacoursiere (26:50):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
I mean, and.
With, when it comes to doctors,clinicians, practice owners, like
this is a beautiful place to startbecause so often our doctor's mindset
will infuse into the team as well.
So if like doctors have a scarcityfeeling towards money or shame around
money or like, we don't talk aboutthat, that's how the team's gonna
also feel in some capacity or another.
(27:11):
And so if with Maggie, like for, foryou, it's really deciding for yourself
first and foremost, pulling outlike, what money story did you have?
Then deciding what money story doyou want and how is it right now
impacting some of the decisions, theactions or the inactions that you
are having in your life, but what isthe result that you actually want?
(27:34):
that's the first step.
It's really deciding whatis it that I actually want?
And then choosing new beliefs onmoney that will actually get you
there, because a belief is just athought that we think again and again.
And Maggie, I know you know inmany ways your story, you've
chosen different thoughts aboutmany other things in your life.
So this is just the exact same thing.
(27:55):
Money often can be more painfulor it can be deeper embedded.
But first things first, just getaware to it and then choose, how
do I really wanna feel about this?
How do I really wanna expand into this?
And what do I really desirefor the outcome of my life?
And then choose beliefs based on that.
So for example, one of the things thatwe talked about in the past was that
I have to work really, really hard.
(28:16):
To get money.
And so I don't really want more ofit because it means more hard work.
Dr. Chad Johnson (28:21):
Hmm.
Allison Lacoursiere (28:22):
But how true really is that, like, is that a capital
T truth where it's like gravity oris it, is that a, a lower T truth?
Because there are many avenues tomake money that don't require time.
And so when you decide money is nota direct exchange of my time or money
doesn't always have to be, then youcan start figuring out different ways.
(28:43):
To earn more, to save more, toinvest more, or to bring in more
that don't necessarily requirethat time, but it first comes
down to the beliefs that you have.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (28:52):
Chad, jump in here,
Dr. Chad Johnson (28:55):
um,
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (28:56):
because you and I have a lot of, we've had a
lot of conversations like about
Dr. Chad Johnson (29:03):
the hustle.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn: About the hustle, yeah. (29:04):
undefined
About like.
I don't like it when you say, I need towork every waking moment to make money.
And I wanna say to you, quit it.
You know?
The truth is the less youwork, the more you make
Dr. Chad Johnson (29:20):
sure.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (29:20):
And my partner's the same way.
He's like, Maggie, I need youin the office five days a week
because I need you to make money.
And my answer is no.
If I work three days a week, I'llwake, I'll make far more money.
Right, because I've seen thathappen It's like, no, I have
to be everywhere all the time.
And it might be to work seven days aweek to make this money, then I will.
Dr. Chad Johnson (29:42):
Yeah.
So I've seen it work before when I've, uh.
Uh, brought my hours available intoscarcity because it's funny, I find that
there needs to be, oh, this is reallydeep, but like, I feel like a lot of
times it's easy to, um, to romanticizeabout abundance, but there's also
(30:06):
something practical to be said aboutscarcity, and I think both need to be, um.
Thought through.
Uh, I don't think that it, it has tobe, if you are an abundance mindset, you
have to hate, it's not as simple as an
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (30:21):
abundance mindset is what you're saying.
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:23):
Say it again to,
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (30:25):
it's not as simple as just having an abundance mindset.
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:28):
Correct.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (30:29):
Right.
Like sometimes it feels like it's hogwash
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:31):
and that they're not mutually exclusive.
Uh, so like when someone says, well, Ijust believe in abundance, it's like.
Yeah, but like that doesn't mean thatyou disagree with scarcity because
if you are in abundance and you haveprovided for your family and you want
to hang out with them, and someonethen, like all your fans, if you have
a, a million fans and they say, if Icould just have one minute with you,
(30:55):
and we just said, well, I believe inabundance, so I'll give you three minutes.
Allison Lacoursiere (30:58):
It's abundance
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:59):
That's it.
Yeah.
And so in order to be abundantwith something, you have to
be scarce with other things.
Yes.
If you want to be abundantwith your family, you have
to be scarce with strangers.
If you wanna be abundant withstrangers, you're going to
be scarce with your family.
And so there's, an interplay betweenthem and Maggie, you're right.
So like I've had a rough lastyear and then you can limit your
(31:22):
supply and control the flow.
Um, just as much as if, you know,there was water flowing through a
hose, you could press on the end andget, you know, like a stream running
out where you could take a drink orpress on it and water the flowers.
You know, like you can spray itdifferent ways, but what if there's
no water coming out of the hose?
You better start digging a well soit implies when you're talking about,
(31:45):
you know, like, hey, just, stick toworking, you know, four days a week.
There was a point where I was justworking, uh, I was doing seven at
noon and that was four days a week.
But that's what I was workingand it was working wonderfully
when I had enough supply.
Right now I don't have enough supplyof people saying, yeah, I want to do
treatment, and so therefore I've got tobasically go look for treatment elsewhere.
(32:11):
Meaning, you know, like I'vepicked up, uh, some jobs elsewhere.
I've gone into Maggie's office.
I have a buddy up in North Dakotaactually that I've gone up to.
And then once a month I go, uh,like a couple hours out of town
and work out there because.
I'm just looking for places where I cando the procedures that I can get paid.
Well doing I, you know, rather than just,you know, saying, well, I could find
(32:33):
something up the street and do fillings.
It's just like anyone can do those,but I've got a skillset and I need
to hunt and find places for that.
Um, so those are my thoughts.
Allison Lacoursiere (32:44):
Yeah.
I mean, Anna like that.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I would love To look at theenergy of abundance versus scarcity.
scarcity feels like urgency control,burnout, overgiving under receiving,
like that constriction feeling.
So you could be in twodifferent situations.
One is like, hmm, I would, I wouldreally like to have more of the
procedures that I wanna do in my life.
(33:05):
I'm gonna think from either scarcitymindset or abundance mindset.
Abundance mindset is calm, decisive,it's generous, it's spacious.
It's trusting in yourself.
It's being able to holdmore and have more.
So from a decision of, Hmm, I wantto bring more money in in the way
that I wanna do it was you operatingfrom an abundance mindset of I wanna
do the procedures that I wanna do.
(33:27):
Scarcity.
would be like, let me just book any day.
Anytime any patient go up thestreet, like I need to get it in.
And so often we don't make thebest decisions when we're coming
from that scarcity mindset.
And so like scarcity of money.
Like I have a hundred dollars where Ihave $0, but there's also, which I think
is probably the most important thing,Energy of scarcity, energy of abundance.
(33:49):
And I will say like as a consultantand a coach, I'd be really curious
to hear all of your thoughts on this.
I can walk into a practice andimmediately I can tell if a practice
owner has a scarcity or an abundancemindset almost immediately.
And the abundance doesn't mean thatthey're overpaying their team or you know,
like making bad decisions in any any way.
(34:11):
It's just they have an abundance of care.
It's an abundance of love.
It's an abundance of generosity.
And most of the time thosepractices are doing better.
They're doing well.
When I come in and I see atpractice, has a lot of scarcity.
Often there's like strife with theteam, like patients have issues.
Like they're kind of likein that, that grippy nature.
And so that's where in decisionsand in choices, we wanna always
(34:36):
operate from that abundance energy.
Typically that abundance energy bringsmore abundance back to you because
you're not operating from urgency, you'renot burning out, you're not overgiving
or not receiving what you deserve.
I see this a lot with doctorslike undercharging, giving way
too many discounts, like just kindof writing off their treatment.
(34:56):
And that often is like scarcityof like lack of value of self.
So again, money gets to be thislike, you know, deeper meaning here.
But that's where I would justencourage anybody to think
like, am I thinking about this?
Am I bringing an energy of scarcity oram I bringing an energy of abundance?
Mm-hmm.
And which one will serve me more?
Regan Robertson (35:17):
Allison, do you coach on behaviors in order
to make that shift occurring?
Because sometimes the practices areunder extreme financial pressure, um,
and or any business owner, for example.
So if you are really stressedout and you have to make payroll.
You know that if you don't makea certain number, it's gonna
(35:37):
be really difficult to do.
I can intimately feel howstressful it would be to try
to stay in an abundant mindset.
Right.
Um, I think it'd be justreally difficult to do.
So I know that, like for myself, Itake away looking at the number and
I instead focus on the behaviors.
What is it that you do to help turn thosepractices around if they're sitting in
(35:58):
scarcity and you can feel it right away?
Allison Lacoursiere (36:01):
Yeah.
I mean.
I would just love to ask you thisquestion back, um, and then I'll,
I'll give you my response, but if thatperson was looking at like, oh my gosh,
like, how am I gonna make payroll andI don't know how to do it, do you think
that they would be more successfulin figuring it out in a scarcity
mindset or in an abundance mindset?
Regan Robertson (36:18):
Oh, I think of abundance and scarcity as fear and,
uh, hope, I guess so I, or good,or like high energy or low energy.
That's the best way to say it.
Not even good or bad.
High energy or low energy.
More high attract, morehigh, more low attract.
More low.
So if I am in a really crunchy situation,I will ask myself, this is my flip.
I will say, how can I makethis a high energy situation?
(36:41):
So that means, what can I learn from this?
Yes.
Um, what is this teaching me?
What it, what opportunity mightbe existing that I don't see?
And that works.
It sucks at the time 'causeI'm mad and I'm frustrated
and I wanna be anywhere else.
But it's the only way I'vebeen able to be successful.
In flipping my energy.
Allison Lacoursiere (36:59):
Yes, and what you're explaining is actually using a
different part of your brain becauseyou're able to take yourself from your
limbic brain, your fear-based brain,the brain that's telling you to like
control, protect, run, fight, flee thatbrain into your prefrontal cortex, which
you have opportunity for, co-creation,creativity, collaboration, which from
that brain, we solve problems faster.
(37:21):
We solve problems more comprehensively.
So scarcity is fear and it is, wemove into a different part of our
brain in which we are like, I'm gonnafight, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna flee.
And we actually are foggy.
Like our brain is foggy in that state.
And I think we've all been in thatstate, in business and in life and
some point, and we like can't makedecisions like we're feeling burnt
(37:42):
out, we're feeling really rough shape.
We're not being the bestleaders we could be.
We're probably not gettinga whole heck of a lot done.
That's sitting in scarcity mindsetswitching and being able to recognize
that and move into abundance mindsetis how do we solve this problem?
What can we do?
How many ways can we bring this money in?
Who can we like connect with that thenwill be able to solve that problem?
(38:03):
So instead of looking at that situationas abundance for scarcity, look at
the energy in which you're comingto solve the problem with, and my
clinicians that are able to recognize,oh my gosh, I'm scared, but I'm still
gonna be able to get myself into this.
Hopeful, this grateful, thisexpansive part of my brain to
actually solve this problem.
They do it a whole lot faster andthey typically don't continue to
(38:26):
spiral in that same direction.
So there's a lot of neuroscience.
To the emotions that people are havingand how they're showing up in their world.
And so when I talk about behaviors,yes, a hundred percent, we don't want
to make choices and behaviors basedon that scarcity because it's often a
fear-based choice, which often doesn'tresult in a really good decision.
(38:48):
So what we wanna do is flip ourselvesinto that abundance mindset.
It doesn't mean like everything'sgreat and you know, I have money
coming up, down, down trees.
That's not it.
It's still like very tactical, very real.
But how many ways can I solve thisproblem and I'm safe while I'm doing it?
Like reminding yourself that I'm safe.
And those decisions are often waybetter and yield way better results,
(39:13):
and people get themselves outof those situations much faster.
So the decisions and the behavior.
Always stems from what we think, createshow we feel, which creates what we do.
And often people are like trying tochange what they're doing without
understanding how they're feelingand what they're thinking about it.
We have to kinda go back to goforward, if that makes sense.
(39:35):
Mm-hmm.
Regan Robertson (39:36):
Oh, I think it's beautiful.
It really highlights inner work and I,I mean, you've really, you, I can see, I
can see in a, in a heartbeat what it wouldfeel like to go into an office uncover the
bees nest and see how deep it really goes.
Because there is a lot of innerwork and changing behavior alone
takes a lot of effort and Ithink there's a lot of bravery.
(39:56):
To tackle that and say, I'm, I'mgoing to, um, you know, work on
getting out of fight or flight.
Because if you've been under a stressfulsituation for a long time, or like in
Maggie's case, growing up in a reallytraumatic environment, uh, you know,
in the country, let alone just in
The inner dynamics that, thatare in the family itself.
It's a lot of work that has to go into it.
(40:18):
But you must fight for yourself.
I mean, you are the hero of your story.
And so I think what's really fascinatingis I don't think about money as a, as
a victim mindset or a hero's mindset,but you choose it just like you
choose everything else in your life.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (40:32):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But, but listen, like as I'm, as I'm, Imean, we're pretty open people, right?
But there's gotta be times where you are.
Entering an office, let's say somebodyhires you and you're entering a scarcity
mindset office, or you meet a clinician.
You discover this, this cannotbe an easy conversation to have.
(40:55):
I mean, you're talking aboutdrilling down into preconceived
notions of what may or may not havehave happened in somebody's past.
Right?
Digging that out, you're talkingabout connecting the reptilian
brain to the heart, back to thecurrent mind, and then you're asking
someone to continue working with.
(41:16):
The past and the present, and thengoing back and forth, and then possibly
sharing some of that with the teamand then having the team work on that.
because this is a dynamic that I'mstill working with in our office.
My partner actually comes from a veryabundant mentality, uh, about money.
he's like.
It'll take care of itself.
(41:36):
Don't worry about it.
Like he just, he doesn't, you know,like we have not had a great year.
we're 15% down and if you wouldconsider that there would've been
growth, we could be 25% down.
And he's like, don't worry about it.
It'll even itself out while I'mlike, and you could tell why, right?
Like why?
Well, I'm like, I'm scared,but I'm changing, right?
(41:56):
So I'm trying to just surrender and let goand be generous and all of those things.
But there's things that, you know,he's very protective and very private.
and it's taken us years to evenshare numbers with our team because
he's like, no, this is private.
This is ours.
Nobody needs to know that.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so.
(42:16):
These conversations and breaking it downreally in an effort for growth, uh, for
both the practice and the practitioner.
How, how, how
Allison Lacoursiere (42:30):
challenging does that
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (42:31):
get?
Allison Lacoursiere (42:33):
I mean, it's, it's very timely.
So really, like, let's say we wereworking together, Maggie, I would just
be like, what is it that you desire?
Let's, let's dream for a minute.
Let's brainstorm.
Let's get clear.
And we get clear on like, what is thatyou want in your life, in your practice?
How do you wanna feel?
What is it like?
What does day to day look like for you?
(42:53):
That's really, really fun, reallyexpensive, really powerful.
Like, what is it that you want?
And then we create the identityof the person who has that.
What are they thinking?
What are they feeling?
And then how do theyoperate because of that?
And it becomes this kindof pathway to a new normal.
Based on simply what this doctor wants.
So I don't, well, what if I
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (43:14):
tell you I, I want more money.
I wanna be this person that islike my partner where I don't worry
about money, and then you tell me,well, this is how we get there.
And I'm like, no, we're not doing that.
Allison Lacoursiere (43:24):
Well, I mean, as a coach, I never, I'm gonna tell
you how are we gonna get there?
I'm gonna ask you questions onhow you think we should get there.
Based on like, okay, so whatwould, let's just say that you
wanna be like your partner.
I. What thoughts do you think youwould have that would help you
feel that way and do those things?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (43:42):
My brain is not working.
I can't even begin tocomprehend the question.
Allison Lacoursiere (43:47):
A hundred percent.
And I mean, I mean I know thatthis is like one of those things
that we have to get super, superaware of old money beliefs.
Then choose new ones thatmake you feel differently.
And typically we go through, you know,a couple months of this kind of work
in order to start to understand this.
And we're doing it like, youknow, 10 minutes on a podcast
(44:09):
with four people talking.
So it gets to be a little bitdeeper than that, but it really
is coming into like the identity.
This is like identity work of likewhat kind of thoughts would she
think, how would she feel every day?
Let's try those on, let's testthem out, see how they feel.
The moment you do that, you start tobuild new neural pathways that make it
(44:29):
easier for you to do it again and again.
So the first time we test it out andyou're like, ah, this kind of feels good.
It's not gonna feel normal, and you'renot gonna revert to it as a habit.
But over time and repetition, you will.
I.
Regan Robertson (44:43):
This pairs so beautifully with, I'm reading Atomic
Habits right now, and believe it or not,I've never read it before, so be here.
I know it's like the number one thingeverybody should read, but, but I like
the, for you're giving grace, like there'sno way to just flip a switch and all of
a sudden say, okay, I'm at a scarcitynow and I'm going to, move my identity.
I've had a session and howdo you eat an elephant one?
(45:04):
Bite at a time.
It, it takes time.
And I think forgiving yourself and givinga lot of leeway and grace to commit to
a 1% change, a little tiny shift Yeah.
In a repetitive, uh, environmentso that you can make it consistent
and turn it into a habit.
I think that's how.
This ship can actually turn, I mean,for me, it, it has taken years.
(45:27):
It's taken years.
And one of the best pieces ofadvice I ever heard was, I was in
therapy and I said, okay, I've gotthis, I've got this, I've got this.
I laid it all out there andshe said, you know what?
I think this is gonna take a coupleof years and we're gonna attack it
slowly, one bite at a time, and.
Well, I, one, I didn't expecther to say that at all.
I didn't expect her to gimme time.
(45:48):
Um, but she also took all of thispressure off of me immediately.
I suddenly felt like, oh, okay,well this isn't something that I
have to do, drastic things, andfor me, that worked really well.
So any, if you're listing right nowand thinking, you know, okay, great, I
just, you know, heard an hour podcast.
I dunno how I'm gonna be able to changefor me anyway, it was really slow
and over time and before you know it.
(46:11):
You're in the right mindset.
Again, not that I don't slip into scarcitya lot 'cause I still think I've, and I
think I'll always battle that, you know?
Totally.
I'm more cognizant of it now
Allison Lacoursiere (46:20):
and it's normal and it's part of our human experience
is to have automatic negative thoughtsor automatic scarcity thoughts.
It's so normal and it's something thatwe get to choose, like, we get to be at
choice for it when we become aware of it.
And so a hundred percent Reagan likethis, this work takes time, but.
What I always love to say too, and I amobsessed with Atomic Habits, is that we're
(46:43):
gonna get to this time next year anyways.
Like we're gonna be here onJune 27th, this time next year.
Anyways, what we repeat wecreate over this next year.
I. A lot of times we look at likeour habits of like workout, you know,
what are we doing for our savings?
What are we doing for this and that.
But like the question is like, whatare we repeating for our thoughts
(47:04):
over the course of next year?
And even if you just take one newthought that's like, I've got this,
or I am a good person, or, youknow, I, I'm gonna be more abundant
mindset, those thoughts over time.
Will change you into a different persongradually, slowly, and I'm not saying a
different person, it's just making thatpathway a little bit more normal for you.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (47:28):
What really sucks is that we are out of time and
these podcast could go on for another.
Yeah.
Dr. Chad Johnson (47:36):
Oh, that's thinking scarcely
Allison Lacoursiere (47:40):
or abundance,
Dr. Chad Johnson (47:40):
there's two sides to the same knife.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (47:44):
Um, I want your takeaways, Chad and Reagan, and then
I'd like final thoughts from Allison.
Dr. Chad Johnson (47:54):
I'll start.
Um, abundance is, uh,more than money, though.
There's an element of itbecause it's telling of, uh.
Your whole being and yourhistory, and that gets messy.
And, um, because it involves thepsychology of and well in sociology,
(48:20):
like it's just involving you andyour past and more than just you.
And then it involves other people too,because a lot of times, money being in
commerce is how you take care of yourfamily and how you take care of your team
and how you take care of your community.
And so, uh, the, this is multifactorialmaking it a very complex issue.
(48:43):
And, um, simply.
Um, making abundance about, uh, positivethinking, though there's an element
of that, um, would be a misnomer.
And I think those are my takeaways.
Is there any correctionor recalibration to that?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn: They're your takeaways? (49:05):
undefined
Yeah.
Dr. Chad Johnson (49:08):
No, I, I think what I'm asking is that's what I,
um, that's what I thought about.
Uh, is there anything where you're like,well, Chad, you weren't listening, or
I'm, I'm getting better at trying tolisten in the sense that I, like I'll
offer something up and then be like,maybe that's what was going on in my mind.
Um, was I listening?
(49:29):
And then you can say no or yes or kind of
Allison Lacoursiere (49:33):
Yeah.
I mean, I think those are arebeautiful takeaways and I think you're,
you're right in this is that money.
Get it.
It can be complex.
It can be an indication of our past.
Our, our feelings are, you know,programming and it really gets to
be, you know, it's a reflection.
It's just a reflection.
So, um, I love your takeaways.
I think you did a great job.
(49:54):
Yes.
Regan Robertson (49:55):
Yes.
Brilliant, brilliant way to unlocksomebody's third level of why,
uh, through the lens of manyabsolutely riveting conversation.
I know you're gonna help a lot ofpeople, and just as I assumed, which we
never wanna assume, you bring love andlight to this topic just like you do.
(50:16):
Everything.
And I guess if I have one takeaway,I know myself when I am not afraid,
if I feel, um, like anythingis possible, I perform my best.
I am the most successful.
And, um, things do work out.
And it is a challenge when times are toughto stay in that vibration, which is life.
It is a challenge.
(50:36):
Yeah.
It should be hard.
And, um, you know, at times.
So that, that is the biggame that we play and.
Success requires support.
So I'm really grateful, Allison, that youare a guide for especially those times
when it is hard and we can't go it alone.
We're not designed to do it alone.
So thank you for, for coming in andhelping what no doubt will be thousands
(50:57):
of people that impact millions of life.
Allison Lacoursiere (51:00):
Thank you.
Um,
Regan Robertson (51:02):
closing thoughts
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (51:03):
Allison?
Allison Lacoursiere (51:06):
Yeah.
I would say within your ownreflections on this, wherever you are.
One of the most important thingsis you don't make yourself wrong
for whatever money, energy you comeup with, you're like, holy smokes,
like got some stuff back there.
Don't make yourself wrong for it.
That awareness is the first steptowards changing it and towards having
what you desire, because so oftenwe are run by our subconscious mind.
(51:31):
It, when we bring that subconsciousbelief into our conscious, that's
how we get to make different choices.
So don't make yourself wrong for it.
Then I would just say get curious andsee what happens when you come from
life with an abundance mindset, likeReagan said, like get curious, like
is it true that you perform your best?
Is it true that you're the kindest?
(51:52):
Is it true that you have the most fun?
I would put money on itthat you, that you would.
And then I would also sayreally allow yourself to release
the emotion around money.
It's not good or bad.
It is a tool and when we can use it asan empowered tool, that's how we start
(52:14):
to set ourselves free from, from manyof the ways that it can make us feel
small or shameful or wrong, or lack.
And that again, one of the kindest thingswe can do for ourselves because it really
does affect so many parts of our life.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (52:30):
Every time I talk to you, I just see you grow more and
more, and I am always inspired by you.
I feel so lucky to have steppedinto this path where I get to
run into you every now and again.
And this is just one ofthese examples and, um.
I'm sure you don't know this, whichis what I'm going to tell you.
Every now and again, I, I have theseteam meetings and when I come from a
(52:53):
place where I want to inspire someone,uh, on my team, I always tell them
the story about, not everything aboutwho you are, but who you are now and
how you started as a dental assistant.
And they glow.
When I tell them about you, andthey feel inspired and empowered,
(53:15):
and that's how I see you.
And I think anybody that you comeinto contact with, um, you, you just
have this talent for, um, for, forallowing the very best parts to come
out of them, even if it takes a littlebit of work for them, um, to grow.
(53:39):
it's just so worth it.
And so I, I really just want to honoryou with this time and this podcast
and wanna thank you for your time withus and just give us a little bit of
how people can get in touch with you.
I know you're changing yourbranding a little bit and
you've changed your website.
And just give us a, a fewmoments about, uh, how that's
(54:00):
changed and how we can find you.
Allison Lacoursiere: Maggie, thank you so much. (54:03):
undefined
It's always such a pleasure andan honor to be in your energy.
You're just such a brilliant,brilliant human being.
Um, so thank you for all ofyou for having me on today.
And if you want to reach out to me,you can find me@alisonlucier.com,
which I know is a risk because itmeans that a lot of people need to
learn how to sell my last C, so.
It is Alison, L-A-C-O-U-R-S-I-E-R e.com.
(54:28):
You can also find me on Instagram.
Um, and I do have a free three daychallenge that helps people go from
scarcities to abundance thinking.
And it's, it's just a reallyfun three day challenge.
So happy for anybody tocome in and take that.
Um, but thank you.
Thank you all for having me here.
Regan Robertson (54:46):
Thank you, Alison.
Dr. Chad Johnson (54:47):
Thanks for joining.
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