June 4, 2025 • 36 mins
What if your marketing had six-pack abs? In this episode, discover how to build a lean, powerful dental brand that does the heavy lifting, attracting the right patients, converting with confidence, and creating momentum that doesn’t wear out.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Regan Robertson (00:00):
The Productive Dentist Academy Podcast Network.
Welcome to the EverydayPractices Dental Podcast.
I'm Reagan Robertson and myco-host Dr. Chad Johnson.
Dr. Maggie Augustine and Iare on a mission to share the
stories of everyday dentists whogenerate extraordinary results.
Using practical proven methods you cantake into your own dental practice if
(00:22):
you are ready to reclaim your time so youcan focus on great patient care without
sacrificing yourself along the way.
Buckle up and listen in
Dr. Chad Johnson (00:31):
as dentists do a great job at customer service, taking care
of the people who are already in youroffice, but not on lead management.
And so for when, uh, a strangerthat calls and you don't know their
name or hardly their phone number.
And, you know, trying to get theminto the system of how do we follow
up with these people until theybecome leads or say, leave me alone.
Regan Robertson (00:52):
Doctor.
Have you ever sat with other doctorsor peers and just had a beep session
with each other about marketing?
If so, you're not alone.
And, uh, my wonderfully talentedand faithful cohost, Chad Johnson
and I we're just sitting here.
(01:14):
Ruminating around marketing, but reallywe were, we were talking about an
upcoming podcast that's gonna happenwith the talented Sarah Hanson, who
is a very gifted marketing consultant.
And I said to Chad, Hey, thissounds like a really good episode
right now that we should capture.
That's so here we are.
Hi Chad.
Dr. Chad Johnson (01:30):
Hey.
Glad to talk this stuff over.
I'm doing great.
It's a, it's a Friday that we're,it's a Friday that we're recording
on and, um, uh, and all is well.
It's, you know, just for context forthe listeners in the future or whatnot
for the context, we're, we're wrapped upwith, uh, the school year, wrapping up
(01:50):
with the school year with kids, and soit's a busy time of year, nonetheless.
It's always good to chat withyou and to, uh, uh, bring some
content for the listeners.
Regan Robertson (02:00):
Absolutely.
Uh, you know how businesses, allbusinesses, they, they're, they, the
idea is not to be a roller coaster, butsometimes it feels like a roller coaster.
Sometimes you have really goodmonths, everything's producing
great, and then sometimes you'relike, where did everything go?
Why is everything off the rails?
And, and it's just, Ithink it's just a normal.
Plight of the business owner or, oran honor of the business owner, like
(02:23):
something for someone to master.
You're, you're shaking your head,but I think it's like a yes and
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:30):
yeah, correct.
Because I think about,uh, this as riding a wave.
Like, um, if you're a surfing.
You, you have to like, it can beeasy, but, or whatever, or hard.
But you, you do have to activelykind of be like, at least balance.
Like there's at least a minimumbalance that you have to do,
um, in order to stay on top.
And you don't have to stay on top.
(02:50):
You can fall in the water.
Like that's always an option.
But in order to ride the wave, it canbe turbulent, it can be smooth, but
you have to like at least have balance.
Regan Robertson (02:59):
So what I love about what you just said there is
it, it, it also, it's dependenton many factors, not just one.
So the quality of, um, of the surfboard,the how strong your core strength
is, is definitely going to impact theweather, will impact where you're at.
Do you do geographically will matter?
(03:20):
Like all of these different.
Sort of pieces go into it and,and when we talk about marketing,
I think the same is to be saidand it's easy to get blinders on.
So, uh, you know, Chad, you were justtalking about what happens when, you
know you're spending money on marketing.
You think it's working, but you'renot really sure it's working, but
you're not seeing the result on theother side, what your process was.
(03:42):
I'm wondering if you could walk us throughwhat your process was and like figuring
out and then showing us like where.
Your assumptions were, because I knowsince I lead the promotions team at
Productive Dentist Academy, I will haveblind spots and go into assumptions also.
Dr. Chad Johnson (03:56):
Sure.
Yeah.
So I think this is a quintessentialproblem that dentists have.
Why do I think that?
Because I see people commenting on this onFacebook forums and, and stuff like that.
Um, so the.
The economy has been turbulent, let'sjust say on and off, since COVID really,
I mean the last five years have, you'vewondered at times if it's like if we're
(04:19):
on track and then there's other timesit's like, are we off track and whatnot?
And I. Um, and politics plays into that,but regardless of, of whichever side or
down the middle you are with that, it,it's, it's regardless because there have
been moments over the last few years whereit's like, is this going the right way?
Is this not?
So, um, there are politicalimplications and sides to be had
(04:42):
nonetheless, it's still volatile.
And, um, I was, um, uh,last year noticing that our.
Call volume or Yeah, the callvolume and the new patient
leads, uh, that those were down.
So we started digging into it and, uh,Kate from PDA marketing was helping
(05:08):
us, you know, dive into that more.
And we're trying to figure outwhat in the world, uh, is going on
because, you know, I used to have.
Let's, I mean, let's just easy math.
I had 30 new patients a month and uh, andit was tracking off and we were trying to
increase it with a, an associate on board.
(05:28):
And, um, and at first, uh, I was,I'll just use the easy words.
I was mad, I was upsetthat it's just like guys.
Uh, I love you, you love me.
Like, why aren't we makingthis work marketing team?
Like, what the heck?
You know, like, what are,are we screwing around?
Like, are we takingour eyes off the wheel?
(05:51):
What's the deal?
Because I don't know, right?
I'm, I'm going to my room and drilling.
I'm going to, um,
you know, to my dental stuff, butI don't know the, the, the back.
Rooms, stuff that's goingon with the marketing.
I mean, I can get updates, but at thesame time, you know, I don't know, uh,
(06:11):
just as much as a parent sitting outin the waiting room, they're like, I'm
at the dental office, but I don't knowwhat's going on in the room with my kid.
You know, like right as I go to that room.
So, um, so then we started, likeKate started, uh, sharing with us the
spreadsheet that, uh, has all the leads.
(06:31):
Well, that made me upset, not at her.
Because I was just like,well, crud, I mean.
So, uh, you know, are we notanswering the phone enough?
So this starts diving into Reagan, the,the thought of, uh, are we getting the,
uh, are we actually getting the phonecalls or are we just not answering?
If we're answering, are we notconverting and are, if we're converting
(06:54):
why, and we're really tracking.
Our lost ROI, not just ourROI, because that's what we do
with it, but like, where's thepotential that we're losing out?
And so I start looking at this spreadsheetthat has, you know, 50 calls a day
and I'm like, wait a second, if we'regetting, you know, like 50 calls a
day and half of 'em are, so let's justsay 25 of these are, are our leads per
(07:16):
day, but we're only working 16 daysa month, so, you know, 25 times, 16,
blah, blah, blah, whatever, than ours.
And that's not 30 new patients in a month.
Like, but I know we can'tbat a thousand, right?
Like, so we can't converta hundred percent of 'em.
Um, so we've done a lot, and I hatefor this to be a diatribe that you
(07:38):
want to dive in, but like, um, oneof the last things that we've done is
we started, uh, with our IT company.
We set up a, if you are a newpatient calling press one.
If you are a this and that.
So we used to have it where youanswer the phone, which is the
nicest, most personable thing.
Yes.
Which being a fee for service officeI like, but the, one of the problems,
(07:58):
uh, boots on the ground for us.
Was, we got a lot of calls for,Hey, do you guys take Medicaid?
Oh, you don't.
Um, do you, uh, do youknow anyone who does?
And I feel, you know, forthose people, and they're,
they're trying to get answers.
Uh, but the Medicaid website shouldhave information as far as the
doctors who are participating, sothat way they can find this out.
(08:21):
But they would, they woulddo it in a very covert way.
They would say, Hey.
I, uh, was hoping to make,I'm a new patient to the area.
I was hoping to make an appointment.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, sure.
And what's your name?
This and that.
And Okay.
Uh, what's your address?
And we'd get all theinformation and they'd go, yeah.
Great.
Uh, do you guys have any Wednesday times?
Yeah, sure.
(08:41):
We got next Wednesday at 9:00 AM Great.
Sounds good.
Okay.
Um, and then, you know,regarding insurance stuff, um.
I take, or I have state funding.
Thanks, bye.
And you know, it'd belike, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You know, like it wouldjust kind of be no, yes.
You know, we, we would get those.
And so we, we had a thing thatwould say, you know, if you're
a new patient, press one.
(09:02):
And then they'd press new patient and thenit would say, you know, if you are, um.
Uh, if you are looking, uh,for information as far as
Medicaid pre please press one.
And so they would press one and itwould say, we're not a Medicaid office.
And then it would say, you know, uh,please visit the Medicaid, uh, website.
And then also, uh, we've heard of thesecouple offices that are available,
(09:24):
and so we cut down on the, the, the.
Unimportant calls to us because,you know, we're trying to, you know,
service the people who are interestedin the, the, I don't know what
the word would be, the good leads.
Right.
Well
Regan Robertson (09:36):
you're being very helpful.
At the same time though too, you're,you've figured out how to scale
a response is what I would say.
So that you're not having to do itby hand, uh, manually every time.
And, and just seeing all of thattime, he's not serving, not the,
the Medicaid patient either.
'cause they're still great patients, butthey need to be where they can be served.
Dr. Chad Johnson (09:54):
Correct.
It needs to be efficient.
I think we are getting fiveor six of those an hour.
What?
Regan Robertson (09:59):
Yeah.
Well that, okay, so that digs into abigger problem, which is probably not
enough Medicaid offices, but that'sanother episode for another day.
Dr. Chad Johnson (10:07):
Correct.
Regan Robertson (10:08):
I love where you're going with how carefully
you started diving into marketing.
Oh, I do.
I also really like how youincluded that interaction as
far as a marketing function.
That was really,
Dr. Chad Johnson (10:21):
yep.
We're just looking at the funnel frombeginning to end and, and Kate, uh.
Kate had a, a, a difficult time, afrustrating time with us in the best of
way trying to figure out like, how canthey help us solve our end of the problem?
(10:41):
Yes.
I mean, you know, becauseto some degree it.
Falls back on us.
Mm-hmm.
But she did.
And it was, I mean, I'm really gratefulfor that because, um, we, we were able
to, you know, um, do a weekly check-inand you're just on a Google sheet and
I've got it on my Google calendar as youknow, I would to weekly just check-in.
(11:03):
Right.
And to, as you know, assign, youknow, on, on specific people.
You know, hey, have we beenfollowing up with these people?
How many times did we follow up on phone,on uh, email via text and, and whatnot?
And, uh, some of these people Iwould even pick up my own phone.
And not everyone loves doing this 'causeyou can get different apps or whatever.
I would send them a text and saying,Hey, this is Dr. Chad from Ana Dentistry.
(11:26):
I was, um, I was auditing my phonelog and I saw that you called, I
wanted to make sure that you were welltaken care of, and it's amazing how
many appointments you can pull down.
Did
Regan Robertson (11:36):
you, did you make appointments from that?
I.
Dr. Chad Johnson (11:38):
I would say, okay, so I'm gonna send this to my admin team
and they're gonna follow up with you.
We should be able to getyou in this next week.
And I would send appointments on, youknow, like on Thursdays I would, uh,
Thursdays or Fridays I would check in.
And by Monday, you know, like they, theywould post a, uh, like we have a way
to remote in and look at our schedule.
(11:58):
And they would say, here'sour emergency times.
And I'd write back and I'd say, Hey,they've already got back with me.
It looks like 9:00 AM or itlooks like 1:00 PM or whatever.
Yeah.
Uh, is best would that work for you?
And they'd write and say this and that.
And then I would, you know, so I wouldkind of, um, liaise liaison that.
Now if your schedule is busy enough thatyou don't have to do that, then cool.
(12:19):
But mine wasn't, and I reallywanted to, you know, let
leave no stone left unturned.
And so we dug into that.
Um.
Uh, in fact, lately we've been doing ayomi, um, promotion where we're gonna
have an open house in a couple weeks.
And so, uh, I went back in.
That's very cool.
Yeah, I went back into all the,the, the spreadsheet and I said,
(12:43):
Hey, for the last three months, ifthey've called the Yomi phone line,
we need to do a fourth follow up withthem, you know, and stuff like that.
So, um, I don't know.
Um.
We, we basically, uh, as I was explainingbefore we started taking the, or
doing the podcast, was we startedfiguring out, okay, stoicism applied.
(13:05):
What can we control?
Yeah.
And, uh, and what's out of our control?
Then we can ask for request for helpwith that, but at the same time, I.
We're getting a, a lot of phone calls,and that took a lot of introspection
because granted, listen, I havehumans working for me and I don't
want them working past dinnertime.
You know, I want them going homeand being with their family.
(13:25):
I, I, I like that there's the, the ScroogeMcDuck side of me that says, you know,
let, let's work, you know, until midnight,and let's always take phone calls.
I get that side of, of you dentists,us dentists, but at the same time,
we want to be home with family.
We want our team to be.
Happy and well-rounded and with theirfamily and, and their own personal time.
And so exploring into options even on.
(13:49):
Uh, you know, having AI slash roboticalgorithmic, um, phone answering.
And I'll say that we tried that,uh, for a couple months and
it's, I love the idea of it.
It's not there for me yet.
I think it would dependon where you're, is
Regan Robertson (14:07):
this AI phone answering you mean?
Dr. Chad Johnson (14:09):
Correct.
Regan Robertson (14:09):
Oh, I'm so glad I can't stand that.
Dr. Chad Johnson (14:11):
And it, it wasn't just the phone answering, it was, um, it was
like a text version where if we didn'tpick up, but it was 24 7 around, you know.
So I like that at 2:00 AM if someonecalls us that it will text and, but like
I conceptually like it, it's just not.
There yet, and that goes back to theAI problem that I don't understand
(14:31):
is that not all AI is the same ai.
And sometimes I'm just like, this justseems like it's just an algorithm.
Like why are we calling this program,you know, ai, it's not learning.
Because if it was learning,I'd say, no, no, no, no.
Stop doing that, starting tomorrow.
You know, like, this is wrong.
You, you know, you can'tdrop an appointment at, uh,
Saturday at 9:00 PM Right.
(14:52):
You know, it's just like,that's not gonna work for us.
E even though, like it makes sense.
To the computer.
It's like, no, you'll seethem at 9:00 PM better.
So you unique
Regan Robertson (15:00):
marketing campaign for single dentists right there,
Dr. Chad Johnson (15:03):
right
Regan Robertson (15:04):
Stop and Saturdays at night.
Dr. Chad Johnson (15:06):
Yeah.
And you know what?
For the right price, I'm down.
But you know, you gotta goodness.
Some lead time.
So, okay.
So that was my long diatribe.
Uh, basically we took ownership of ourmarketing and uh, that's made a huge.
Difference.
And, um, I am excited even intrying our new software with
that, uh, called Trackable, um,that is checking out the data.
(15:30):
Uh, you know, it's, um, uh, it's takingall the leads I. And I was explaining
to you or before hitting record as well,that we, uh, as dentists do a great
job at customer service, taking careof the people who are already in your
office, but not on lead management.
And so for when, uh, a stranger thatcalls and you don't know their name or
(15:52):
hardly their phone number, and you know,trying to get them into the system of how
do we follow up with these people untilthey become leads or say, leave me alone.
Regan Robertson (16:03):
I, I, you know, the whole time you were talking, what I, what kept
going around in my brain is, you know,you get out what you put into it, and
it's very tempting, especially, uh, forbusiness owners that are also clinicians.
It, it's not your job.
Like, that's the first thing Ithink of is it's not your job.
Like, I've got other things,more important things to do.
And really what we're saying is, is canI go back to where I'm really passionate?
(16:25):
And why can this not justfunction the way it is?
Um, unfortunately.
I think we've fallenprayed to it too at times.
You.
It's more enticing to just domore or to do different than to
turn around and work on your core.
Think about like working outthe wrong set of muscles.
So, you know, um, in my own, like inmy own physical health journey, I, I
(16:48):
had hired a personal trainer and shewas phenomenal, but, but, uh, it was
the actual, you know, immune issuesgoing on in my diet going on that, um.
And I even worked with a dietician, solet's like that, like go that route.
So even that, those two things were,uh, were not the right things to do.
So just because you can do somethingdoesn't mean you should do something.
That's right.
(17:08):
And you have to really be adetective of sorts and you
have to do a diagnostic on it.
So if you, listeners, if you haven'trecently done an audit on your marketing.
When I, and I'm going toexplain what that means.
It, it's time to do that.
So first of all, if you've, if thoughtI've never really looked at my marketing
and all the intersections, that'sprobably the flag that you need to know
(17:28):
because there are things that you mightmiss that could be, you know, in, in
Chad's case it could be costing you, Imean, what thousands in patient care.
Uh, that that may be missed.
And it's not that yourteam is, is uh, malicious.
It's, it's not that it, that yourmarketing team is, is being lazy, but
you do have to take some ownershipand go through that process.
(17:50):
And so what I do is, is I like.
Chad, how you were saying that, you know,you went and started looking at each
little touch point and intersection.
So data is, is the, is the best part.
So it sounds to me like youknow, what started your journey
was the data piece of it.
Like the numbers were not adding upto you wasn't making sense at the end.
So I take, let's,
Dr. Chad Johnson (18:08):
let's put money to that.
You know, I was spending, uh, $8,000on marketing and I was like, I mean,
is that earning me the patience that Iwould think $8,000 should bring me right.
So when you talk about touch Yeah.
I just wanna make sureeveryone's understanding.
Yeah.
You are saying from.
From the moment you have reached outto the patient, like on, whether it
(18:30):
be SEO slash Google ads slash youknow, billboard, whatever, uh, phone
in the phone book, uh, phone numberin the phone book, then the patient
calls, then the patient doesn't.
Get an answer on, on our end, butthey are persistent, this particular
one, and they call back next week andthen they, they get through, but uh,
(18:51):
the person said, oh, I don't know.
And, but then they're persistentand they try one more time the next
day and they get the right person.
And that person then says.
Hey.
Yeah, no, we'd love to haveyou in, in fact, we have an
appointment next Wednesday.
Okay, great.
Well then the patient realizes,oh, next Wednesday, you know,
my car's being worked on.
I can't make it.
(19:12):
Um, you know what, I'll call back.
No, I can't.
Uh, my, I lost my phone.
And then they don't call you backand you go, well, what a rude person.
They never called us back.
What a, we don't wantjerks, you know, like this.
And.
Then it's lost.
It's a lost opportunity.
Or you get 'em to the door.
But they were afraid to open the doorbecause, you know, like they were
(19:32):
like, oh, I'm too scared to go in.
I've, it's been 15 years.
So there's so many opportunitiesfrom getting their butt in the chair.
Then even when they get their butt inthe chair to diagnose incorrectly and
then, uh, getting them to say yes totreatment and then the all important.
Paying for their treatment.
So, you know, stuff like setting upfinances, there's, there's this whole
litany of start to finish thinkingthrough the patient experience, um,
(19:56):
that where the ball could get dropped.
Keep going.
Regan Robertson (19:59):
Dropping the ball is exactly the point of, of doing this.
This audit is really paying attentionto, um, to what happens to that
patient because marketing does notstop, uh, just because they schedule.
So looking at the quality, uh,of it from, from every single
touch point is really important.
In my coaching group, um, throughCoach Builder and business made
(20:20):
simple, one of the things that Ihear often, um, in the community
itself is the amount of times that.
Businesses drop the ball.
So a client is basically bangingdown their door saying, I would, you
know, I would love to work with you.
I would love to hire you.
And the person says, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then they don't end up gettingback to them for whatever reason.
And it's a lost opportunity.
(20:41):
Take the landscaper, for example.
My husband and I wanna landscape our yard.
We went out and we gotbids to landscape our yard.
Guess who followed up with us?
Dr. Chad Johnson (20:54):
The person who got the contract.
None
Regan Robertson (20:56):
of them.
None of them of them.
It was crazy.
Yeah.
This was like a couple years ago now.
Uh.
Maybe they were busy.
I don't know.
One person did get back to us withan initial and we were like, yes,
and I wanted like some pavers.
And so I asked my husband, I said,go back to him and tell 'em that
you want a different style of paver.
And then that dropped off entirely too.
So it was just amazing to me and wasa very like visual, hands-on element.
(21:20):
Think of like an overgrown garden.
The garden is there, the canvas is there.
It can be beautiful, butyou have to pay attention.
So from, you're right.
So the website experience,how easy is it to schedule?
How easy is it to find?
I am amazed at how many websites I go to.
I can't find what city they're even in.
Yeah.
A lot.
(21:40):
And I'm like, what?
And I look at a lot ofdentist websites too.
So I'm like, where is this?
Where is this doctor even?
But
Dr. Chad Johnson (21:46):
it's not just dentist.
You're right.
Like not just, sometimes I'llbe looking for a company and I'm
like, where are they based out of?
And you go to contact us, right?
And then it's like, yeah, uh, here,send us a message and we'll get back.
I'm like.
No, I want to contact you.
Where is your place even, you know,like go into Google Maps and you're so
Regan Robertson (22:02):
mystery.
Mystery shopping is one of thebest things I think you can do
for your, for your marketing,for the, uh, consumer experience.
And then on your side,Chad, and, and my side.
So, okay.
We've got this mystery ofmarketing isn't working.
Why is it not working?
And really it does come down to thehandoffs and looking at the handoffs.
So what quality of lead areyou getting in the door?
So looking at those names and, and,um, and then those that who schedule,
(22:26):
I would take a look and see, arethey fitting your demographic?
Meaning are they, are they needingthe services that you're really
passionate about providing?
And, and make sure that your, uh, youknow, that your marketing is pulling the
right type of leads for your practice.
Sure.
So paying attention tothat is really good.
Um.
Dr. Chad Johnson (22:44):
But the blame fell on us.
Like specifically for us it was, but you
Regan Robertson (22:47):
found, what you found out was the blame fell on you.
For
Dr. Chad Johnson (22:49):
sure.
For sure.
You know, like that, that it was, itwas like, wow, we could really, here's
what I, um, a statistic that I just as,just math, I mean, so 168 hours in a
week and we work for seven hour days.
You know, let's even just say eight,but you know, if we're answering
the, the phone about seven hoursor, or eight, that's 16% of the week
(23:11):
that we are answering the phone.
So, uh, yeah, so what I love it
Regan Robertson (23:15):
when you do your engineering brain, I love it when you
start to break this all out into formulas.
It's so, I love how your brain works.
Keep going.
Dr. Chad Johnson (23:22):
Well, think, think, think about the 83% of the time.
Otherwise that, so we're notanswering the phone 83% of the day.
Now, how many people arecalling it at midnight?
FairPoint, I mean, right.
But, but you know, so that'sjust a, a uniform, uh, equation.
But nonetheless, like we are reallyonly available, uh, uh, 16% of the,
(23:44):
the week or, you know, any givenday, uh, to answer the phone and.
And so that first off meansthat the patients are getting
filtered by our closure.
Yeah.
You know, while we're enjoyingthe weekend and naturally.
So I don't think that's wrong thatwe're enjoying the weekend, but you
know, how are we making sure thatwe're following up with these people?
(24:06):
And it's interesting when yougo to call logs, seeing how.
You can, you can track, you know,the, the phone number if you have
the right software, and you cansee that these people are sometimes
are calling five times, you know,they're, they want you five times.
Sure.
You know, so they call, uh, theycall Thursday, um, they call
(24:26):
Thursday after dinner, 6:00 PM Okay.
Then they call Friday morning, uh, as 8:00AM Then they call, uh, Friday afternoon.
Now you've been closed.
You, you think they shouldbe able to figure this out?
They probably could figurethis out, but they don't know.
And so now they've called three times.
Well,
Regan Robertson (24:43):
they call when they, when it's convenient for them to Correct.
'cause they're likely working.
I've never understood thisin our culture, by the way.
Just throwing that out there.
If I'm working a nine to five,the majority of people are
working nine to five and all thebusinesses are open nine to five.
It really, I mean, it gives youwhat your little tiny break in
between your day and, and let's faceit, I think, I think collectively
in the United States especially,everyone's pretty much overworked.
(25:04):
I really don't think I've everheard a professional, not yet
say, my life is just chill.
Like I kind of do what I wantunless you're independently wealthy.
Right.
No, everyone's hustling,so Yeah, of course.
They're gonna be like, oh my gosh.
And I bet it, I bet it's like this too.
I, I have to make that appointment.
I've got a call.
I hope they're still open.
Right.
Yeah.
That's how you get thoselate afternoon calls.
(25:24):
Yep.
Oh man.
Dr. Chad Johnson (25:26):
I even was dropping off some flyers for our implant.
Um, uh, uh.
Open house that we're doing.
And I stopped by one businessa couple blocks away and um,
there were no cars in it.
I was like, oh, crud.
So I pull up, I look on thewindow, it said, uh, uh, you
know, open until three 30.
And I was just like, oh man.
You know, it was like fouro'clock and I was like, man,
(25:49):
they're open until three 30.
Uh, the awesome for them, but I wasjust like, I missed my opportunity.
'cause they were closed mid-afternoon.
I was just like, that's awesome for them.
But holy moly.
Regan Robertson (26:01):
I, I jotted this down because really I wanna, um, listeners, I
wanna give you something that you can goback and you can look at your own practice
or business and, and kind of dive into it.
So there, when you are marketing, thereare multiple elements to your marketing.
There is the message and thevisual that goes on all of your
efforts, on your website, on yourbillboards, on your direct mailers,
on your radio ads, and all of that.
(26:22):
That could be a problem.
Your messaging could be off.
Here's a hint.
If you're talking about how wonderful youare, doctor, and how many advanced degrees
you have, you might be putting yourselfin the hero seat and that is a mistake.
Go check out the interview with Dr.JJ Peterson a few episodes back,
and you can learn all about that.
It could be your messaging might be off.
(26:43):
Um, it could be to Chad'sTestament, a dropped.
Ball, you might actually be gettingleads with your digital advertising,
with, uh, it, with all of yourdifferent marketing elements.
Heck, your billboard or your, uh,no, your little ad, your ad in the
church bulleted might be, might besmashing it, but it does nothing
if the ball gets dropped once that.
(27:04):
That phone call is made
Dr. Chad Johnson (27:06):
or Yeah, is after church.
They're on the churchbulletin after church.
They're calling on Sunday afternoonand they don't get an answer.
Now, they should be able to figurethat out, but they just saw it.
They called and theycan't get ahold of you.
Regan Robertson (27:18):
So what's cool about that though, here?
So here's another, here's anothercool thing about marketing
and knowing your audience.
There are mega churches around, right?
So there's, I was at a churchthat had like 4,500 people in it.
If you are big in a community, itdoesn't have to be religious based.
Any base, if you are in a community,you meet them where they're at.
So think about that carefully.
(27:40):
While for chat, it might not makesense to have a phone answering
system or somebody open on Sunday.
It sure as heck might if you are deeplyembedded in a large community that is
going to likely be calling at that time.
So pay attention.
And listen to what your audience is doing.
And Chad, you just married itwith the most exciting data.
So Chad going through and saying, okay,here's when my callers are calling.
(28:03):
Most like, and here's whenwe're not answering those calls.
He may have discovered somethingreally interesting and one fix
might end up solving that problem.
So look at your intersections.
Carefully.
Um, and this is probably the part thatwill make you groan, and I get it.
I've done it myself.
It does take time.
It's worth the investment.
(28:23):
Or you can just keep throwing moneyevery month at marketing and kind of
hoping that it works, but you should.
And
Dr. Chad Johnson (28:28):
being mad it's not
Regan Robertson (28:29):
right and being mad that it's not, before you
go and blame, my website sucks.
My digital advertising sucks.
My what?
My whatever sucks.
Try to do a really bigdiagnostic on it first to see
where the actual problem could.
And, and, and I'll tell you, um, onething where, where I've heard doctors say
(28:49):
that their marketing still doesn't work,um, comes around the time of follow up.
So they've actually had an appointment,but that lifetime patient value
is low because they came in andthen they never came back again.
Well, what I discovered in likeone of my own journeys is how
well a practice medical dental.
Any, any health modality, howwell they follow up with you post
(29:13):
appointment makes a huge difference.
And especially in dentistry, becauseyou have treatment planning, medical,
you have treatment planning, you areeither gonna say yes to that, you're
gonna delay it or you're gonna say no.
And so it can, life gets Lifey and Chadand I know this so well, and I know you
listening to this, you know this so well.
Life gets lifey, you get in the car,you, you say you're gonna think about it.
(29:33):
Then, you know, work calls your familycalls, your kid calls, life gets
in the way, and then you forget toschedule it if you don't make a touch,
like, and that is a marketing touchpoint, if you don't follow up, you
could end up losing that opportunity.
So, uh, just like a garden you'regonna, you're going to get out of it,
what you put into it and how big thattomato grows is really up to you.
And, and I think, I thinkmarketing plays a really important
(29:56):
part when we pay attention and,and value each element of it.
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:01):
If you have software, uh, or some ability of tracking and
you are able doctor to do what I did,I followed up with people via text and
I would see the tracking phone number.
I would write this message andthen cut and paste it so I didn't
have to retype it every time.
Um, I actually saved it in my phoneso I could, you know, hit this again,
Regan Robertson (30:22):
mark.
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:23):
Yes.
Every week is, I'll write and say, Hey,this is Dr. Chad from Veranda Dentistry.
I was auditing my phone calllogs and saw that you called.
I wanted to make sure that I wasfollowing up with you, that you were
satisfied with how we interacted with you.
If you have any questions orwant to, you know, schedule
an appointment, let me know.
(30:44):
This is my personal cell phone numberor however you want it to finish that,
let me know by calling whatever, right?
But.
I,
Regan Robertson (30:51):
I can hear the, I can hear the doctor groans right now.
Like I could, I, I feel I can hear it,
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:55):
but, but here's the deal, here's the deal on my
phone, I mean, just so you know,you might have a different area.
It's how my area works andI. People don't bother me.
Like, so if you're just like, if I givemy phone number out to a thousand people,
a thousand people are gonna bother me.
No, they won't.
This isn't the nineties that people areexcited to call your cellular number.
Okay?
(31:15):
So, no, they won't, they'rebusy, they have things to do.
You're not actually that important.
So, uh, so give themyour number and you're.
If, if you want to make appointments, ifyou're full, maybe this episode isn't for
you, keep spending money how you want.
But if you, if you wish you had moreappointments, if you wish that your, uh,
customer care was taken to, uh, the nextlevel, uh, model that as a leader by
(31:39):
sending a message and you can hide it ina, like a hidden, um, text message app.
They have those.
So I don't, I'm not saying you have to doit the way that I'm doing it, but reaching
out to them, um, you will get more.
Re-engagement, I think is the word for it.
And, and, and you'll be amazed thatif you're like, man, this next week is
kind of empty, we'll reengage with thepeople who tried calling you the last
(32:02):
week or two and you will get it full.
Regan Robertson (32:06):
I think making it, you know, I. As a consumer, it
wouldn't matter to me if it was mydoctor texting me personally, which I
would be shocked at if that happened.
And yes, I would feel very special, um,if the office manager reached out to me.
I would also feel special.
And here's why.
The way that you justdescribed the message, it felt.
More personal and it put yourself in theguide role and it made them the hero.
(32:29):
It seemed very gen like genuine.
Dr. Chad Johnson (32:31):
Yes.
Regan Robertson (32:32):
It didn't feel to me like, you know, uh, hey schedule,
we, we got, we got, we got openingsand just go ahead and schedule.
It was actually seemed very, um, caring.
And so I think how youmessage it is also a big deal.
Um, but doctor, if you're listeningand you're like, I just don't, I just
don't have the time for that, or I don'twanna make the investment, or I'm too
introverted, or whatever it may be.
I think your team could do it too,in a HIPAA compliant way, obviously.
(32:55):
So check out the appsthat are appropriate.
I'm not, I'm not technical on, on that,that piece of it, but I, I do know
that that would be enormously valuable.
And one of the things thatI've talked about many times
should be inserted here is.
I received through my patient hub appat the medical clinic that I go to.
Well wishes on a trip that I was taking.
That was it.
There was, there was no, hey, scheduleyour follow up or anything like that.
(33:18):
It was just, Hey, I hope youhave a good time on your trip.
And that changed the world for me.
It felt seen, it felt heard and and hadnothing to do with their care, but I will
always go to them because I felt seen.
So I love that you'redoing this and I love that.
I love so much, Chad, that youwere willing to take a hard look.
Keep your biases down and your,and like your blind, like your
(33:39):
little, what do they, what do theycall the little blind spotters?
The, the little, what arethey called on horses?
They put 'em on the sides of their face.
What are this called?
Dr. Chad Johnson (33:47):
Uh, I was, if I were quicker, I was gonna come up with some,
like, stupid name and you're gonna belike, no, it wasn't, and then I was
gonna be like, no, I was just kidding.
Regan Robertson (33:55):
I just like that you're, that you were able to take a, a very,
um, impartial look at it and I think, uh.
Dr. Chad Johnson (34:02):
It was tough because I, I, I did have emotion to it, so like
I don't want people to think, wow, I wishI could be so emotionally unattached and,
and just rationally look, no, no, no, no.
Kate can attest to this.
I was, I was mad.
Like, she was probablyjust like, oh, shoot.
Like he's mad.
Yeah.
And like, I, but I was like, if I don'tgo through, like, that's not me normally,
(34:25):
but I was like, I, I think I have to gothrough this emotion and like figure,
like, 'cause it's just like, I don't knowif you've ever been a parent coming home
and it's like, what's this house a mess?
Like what, why is this house a mess?
And your caveman brain turns onand then like, then you settle down
and go, oh yeah, I made this mess.
You know, it wasn't my kids, it was me.
Oops.
So.
Regan Robertson (34:46):
Accountability, willingness to look in all, you
know, under all the covers, under allthe beds, look under the, you know.
On all the areas.
I think that that's right.
Will be, yeah.
It'll be worth it.
Well, thank you Chad.
Thanks for jumping on.
Um, thanks, listeners, get excitedfor part two of this because we are
interviewing Sarah Hansen, who is a masterat this, and she brings a lot of energy to
(35:07):
the conversation and a lot of excitement.
So we are going to talk about marketingfrom the inside out with Sarah and,
uh, and she's gonna tell us some ofthe results that she's been getting,
which are, um, uh, uncredible.
So, uh, tune in for that.
Look to that next week.
Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of Everyday Practices Podcast.
It would mean the world if you canhelp spread the word by sharing this
(35:30):
episode with a fellow dentist andleave us a review on iTunes or Spotify.
Do you have an extraordinary story you'dlike to share or feedback on how we can
make this podcast even more Awesome.
Drop us an email at podcast.
At productive dentist.com.
And don't forget to check out ourother podcasts from Productive
Dentist academy@productivedentist.comslash podcasts.
(35:51):
See you next week.
The Productive Dentist Academy Podcast Network.
Welcome to the EverydayPractices Dental Podcast.
I'm Reagan Robertson and myco-host Dr. Chad Johnson.
Dr. Maggie Augustine and Iare on a mission to share the
stories of everyday dentists whogenerate extraordinary results.
Using practical proven methods you cantake into your own dental practice if
(00:22):
you are ready to reclaim your time so youcan focus on great patient care without
sacrificing yourself along the way.
Buckle up and listen in
Dr. Chad Johnson (00:31):
as dentists do a great job at customer service, taking care
of the people who are already in youroffice, but not on lead management.
And so for when, uh, a strangerthat calls and you don't know their
name or hardly their phone number.
And, you know, trying to get theminto the system of how do we follow
up with these people until theybecome leads or say, leave me alone.
Regan Robertson (00:52):
Doctor.
Have you ever sat with other doctorsor peers and just had a beep session
with each other about marketing?
If so, you're not alone.
And, uh, my wonderfully talentedand faithful cohost, Chad Johnson
and I we're just sitting here.
(01:14):
Ruminating around marketing, but reallywe were, we were talking about an
upcoming podcast that's gonna happenwith the talented Sarah Hanson, who
is a very gifted marketing consultant.
And I said to Chad, Hey, thissounds like a really good episode
right now that we should capture.
That's so here we are.
Hi Chad.
Dr. Chad Johnson (01:30):
Hey.
Glad to talk this stuff over.
I'm doing great.
It's a, it's a Friday that we're,it's a Friday that we're recording
on and, um, uh, and all is well.
It's, you know, just for context forthe listeners in the future or whatnot
for the context, we're, we're wrapped upwith, uh, the school year, wrapping up
(01:50):
with the school year with kids, and soit's a busy time of year, nonetheless.
It's always good to chat withyou and to, uh, uh, bring some
content for the listeners.
Regan Robertson (02:00):
Absolutely.
Uh, you know how businesses, allbusinesses, they, they're, they, the
idea is not to be a roller coaster, butsometimes it feels like a roller coaster.
Sometimes you have really goodmonths, everything's producing
great, and then sometimes you'relike, where did everything go?
Why is everything off the rails?
And, and it's just, Ithink it's just a normal.
Plight of the business owner or, oran honor of the business owner, like
(02:23):
something for someone to master.
You're, you're shaking your head,but I think it's like a yes and
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:30):
yeah, correct.
Because I think about,uh, this as riding a wave.
Like, um, if you're a surfing.
You, you have to like, it can beeasy, but, or whatever, or hard.
But you, you do have to activelykind of be like, at least balance.
Like there's at least a minimumbalance that you have to do,
um, in order to stay on top.
And you don't have to stay on top.
(02:50):
You can fall in the water.
Like that's always an option.
But in order to ride the wave, it canbe turbulent, it can be smooth, but
you have to like at least have balance.
Regan Robertson (02:59):
So what I love about what you just said there is
it, it, it also, it's dependenton many factors, not just one.
So the quality of, um, of the surfboard,the how strong your core strength
is, is definitely going to impact theweather, will impact where you're at.
Do you do geographically will matter?
(03:20):
Like all of these different.
Sort of pieces go into it and,and when we talk about marketing,
I think the same is to be saidand it's easy to get blinders on.
So, uh, you know, Chad, you were justtalking about what happens when, you
know you're spending money on marketing.
You think it's working, but you'renot really sure it's working, but
you're not seeing the result on theother side, what your process was.
(03:42):
I'm wondering if you could walk us throughwhat your process was and like figuring
out and then showing us like where.
Your assumptions were, because I knowsince I lead the promotions team at
Productive Dentist Academy, I will haveblind spots and go into assumptions also.
Dr. Chad Johnson (03:56):
Sure.
Yeah.
So I think this is a quintessentialproblem that dentists have.
Why do I think that?
Because I see people commenting on this onFacebook forums and, and stuff like that.
Um, so the.
The economy has been turbulent, let'sjust say on and off, since COVID really,
I mean the last five years have, you'vewondered at times if it's like if we're
(04:19):
on track and then there's other timesit's like, are we off track and whatnot?
And I. Um, and politics plays into that,but regardless of, of whichever side or
down the middle you are with that, it,it's, it's regardless because there have
been moments over the last few years whereit's like, is this going the right way?
Is this not?
So, um, there are politicalimplications and sides to be had
(04:42):
nonetheless, it's still volatile.
And, um, I was, um, uh,last year noticing that our.
Call volume or Yeah, the callvolume and the new patient
leads, uh, that those were down.
So we started digging into it and, uh,Kate from PDA marketing was helping
(05:08):
us, you know, dive into that more.
And we're trying to figure outwhat in the world, uh, is going on
because, you know, I used to have.
Let's, I mean, let's just easy math.
I had 30 new patients a month and uh, andit was tracking off and we were trying to
increase it with a, an associate on board.
(05:28):
And, um, and at first, uh, I was,I'll just use the easy words.
I was mad, I was upsetthat it's just like guys.
Uh, I love you, you love me.
Like, why aren't we makingthis work marketing team?
Like, what the heck?
You know, like, what are,are we screwing around?
Like, are we takingour eyes off the wheel?
(05:51):
What's the deal?
Because I don't know, right?
I'm, I'm going to my room and drilling.
I'm going to, um,
you know, to my dental stuff, butI don't know the, the, the back.
Rooms, stuff that's goingon with the marketing.
I mean, I can get updates, but at thesame time, you know, I don't know, uh,
(06:11):
just as much as a parent sitting outin the waiting room, they're like, I'm
at the dental office, but I don't knowwhat's going on in the room with my kid.
You know, like right as I go to that room.
So, um, so then we started, likeKate started, uh, sharing with us the
spreadsheet that, uh, has all the leads.
(06:31):
Well, that made me upset, not at her.
Because I was just like,well, crud, I mean.
So, uh, you know, are we notanswering the phone enough?
So this starts diving into Reagan, the,the thought of, uh, are we getting the,
uh, are we actually getting the phonecalls or are we just not answering?
If we're answering, are we notconverting and are, if we're converting
(06:54):
why, and we're really tracking.
Our lost ROI, not just ourROI, because that's what we do
with it, but like, where's thepotential that we're losing out?
And so I start looking at this spreadsheetthat has, you know, 50 calls a day
and I'm like, wait a second, if we'regetting, you know, like 50 calls a
day and half of 'em are, so let's justsay 25 of these are, are our leads per
(07:16):
day, but we're only working 16 daysa month, so, you know, 25 times, 16,
blah, blah, blah, whatever, than ours.
And that's not 30 new patients in a month.
Like, but I know we can'tbat a thousand, right?
Like, so we can't converta hundred percent of 'em.
Um, so we've done a lot, and I hatefor this to be a diatribe that you
(07:38):
want to dive in, but like, um, oneof the last things that we've done is
we started, uh, with our IT company.
We set up a, if you are a newpatient calling press one.
If you are a this and that.
So we used to have it where youanswer the phone, which is the
nicest, most personable thing.
Yes.
Which being a fee for service officeI like, but the, one of the problems,
(07:58):
uh, boots on the ground for us.
Was, we got a lot of calls for,Hey, do you guys take Medicaid?
Oh, you don't.
Um, do you, uh, do youknow anyone who does?
And I feel, you know, forthose people, and they're,
they're trying to get answers.
Uh, but the Medicaid website shouldhave information as far as the
doctors who are participating, sothat way they can find this out.
(08:21):
But they would, they woulddo it in a very covert way.
They would say, Hey.
I, uh, was hoping to make,I'm a new patient to the area.
I was hoping to make an appointment.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, sure.
And what's your name?
This and that.
And Okay.
Uh, what's your address?
And we'd get all theinformation and they'd go, yeah.
Great.
Uh, do you guys have any Wednesday times?
Yeah, sure.
(08:41):
We got next Wednesday at 9:00 AM Great.
Sounds good.
Okay.
Um, and then, you know,regarding insurance stuff, um.
I take, or I have state funding.
Thanks, bye.
And you know, it'd belike, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You know, like it wouldjust kind of be no, yes.
You know, we, we would get those.
And so we, we had a thing thatwould say, you know, if you're
a new patient, press one.
(09:02):
And then they'd press new patient and thenit would say, you know, if you are, um.
Uh, if you are looking, uh,for information as far as
Medicaid pre please press one.
And so they would press one and itwould say, we're not a Medicaid office.
And then it would say, you know, uh,please visit the Medicaid, uh, website.
And then also, uh, we've heard of thesecouple offices that are available,
(09:24):
and so we cut down on the, the, the.
Unimportant calls to us because,you know, we're trying to, you know,
service the people who are interestedin the, the, I don't know what
the word would be, the good leads.
Right.
Well
Regan Robertson (09:36):
you're being very helpful.
At the same time though too, you're,you've figured out how to scale
a response is what I would say.
So that you're not having to do itby hand, uh, manually every time.
And, and just seeing all of thattime, he's not serving, not the,
the Medicaid patient either.
'cause they're still great patients, butthey need to be where they can be served.
Dr. Chad Johnson (09:54):
Correct.
It needs to be efficient.
I think we are getting fiveor six of those an hour.
What?
Regan Robertson (09:59):
Yeah.
Well that, okay, so that digs into abigger problem, which is probably not
enough Medicaid offices, but that'sanother episode for another day.
Dr. Chad Johnson (10:07):
Correct.
Regan Robertson (10:08):
I love where you're going with how carefully
you started diving into marketing.
Oh, I do.
I also really like how youincluded that interaction as
far as a marketing function.
That was really,
Dr. Chad Johnson (10:21):
yep.
We're just looking at the funnel frombeginning to end and, and Kate, uh.
Kate had a, a, a difficult time, afrustrating time with us in the best of
way trying to figure out like, how canthey help us solve our end of the problem?
(10:41):
Yes.
I mean, you know, becauseto some degree it.
Falls back on us.
Mm-hmm.
But she did.
And it was, I mean, I'm really gratefulfor that because, um, we, we were able
to, you know, um, do a weekly check-inand you're just on a Google sheet and
I've got it on my Google calendar as youknow, I would to weekly just check-in.
(11:03):
Right.
And to, as you know, assign, youknow, on, on specific people.
You know, hey, have we beenfollowing up with these people?
How many times did we follow up on phone,on uh, email via text and, and whatnot?
And, uh, some of these people Iwould even pick up my own phone.
And not everyone loves doing this 'causeyou can get different apps or whatever.
I would send them a text and saying,Hey, this is Dr. Chad from Ana Dentistry.
(11:26):
I was, um, I was auditing my phonelog and I saw that you called, I
wanted to make sure that you were welltaken care of, and it's amazing how
many appointments you can pull down.
Did
Regan Robertson (11:36):
you, did you make appointments from that?
I.
Dr. Chad Johnson (11:38):
I would say, okay, so I'm gonna send this to my admin team
and they're gonna follow up with you.
We should be able to getyou in this next week.
And I would send appointments on, youknow, like on Thursdays I would, uh,
Thursdays or Fridays I would check in.
And by Monday, you know, like they, theywould post a, uh, like we have a way
to remote in and look at our schedule.
(11:58):
And they would say, here'sour emergency times.
And I'd write back and I'd say, Hey,they've already got back with me.
It looks like 9:00 AM or itlooks like 1:00 PM or whatever.
Yeah.
Uh, is best would that work for you?
And they'd write and say this and that.
And then I would, you know, so I wouldkind of, um, liaise liaison that.
Now if your schedule is busy enough thatyou don't have to do that, then cool.
(12:19):
But mine wasn't, and I reallywanted to, you know, let
leave no stone left unturned.
And so we dug into that.
Um.
Uh, in fact, lately we've been doing ayomi, um, promotion where we're gonna
have an open house in a couple weeks.
And so, uh, I went back in.
That's very cool.
Yeah, I went back into all the,the, the spreadsheet and I said,
(12:43):
Hey, for the last three months, ifthey've called the Yomi phone line,
we need to do a fourth follow up withthem, you know, and stuff like that.
So, um, I don't know.
Um.
We, we basically, uh, as I was explainingbefore we started taking the, or
doing the podcast, was we startedfiguring out, okay, stoicism applied.
(13:05):
What can we control?
Yeah.
And, uh, and what's out of our control?
Then we can ask for request for helpwith that, but at the same time, I.
We're getting a, a lot of phone calls,and that took a lot of introspection
because granted, listen, I havehumans working for me and I don't
want them working past dinnertime.
You know, I want them going homeand being with their family.
(13:25):
I, I, I like that there's the, the ScroogeMcDuck side of me that says, you know,
let, let's work, you know, until midnight,and let's always take phone calls.
I get that side of, of you dentists,us dentists, but at the same time,
we want to be home with family.
We want our team to be.
Happy and well-rounded and with theirfamily and, and their own personal time.
And so exploring into options even on.
(13:49):
Uh, you know, having AI slash roboticalgorithmic, um, phone answering.
And I'll say that we tried that,uh, for a couple months and
it's, I love the idea of it.
It's not there for me yet.
I think it would dependon where you're, is
Regan Robertson (14:07):
this AI phone answering you mean?
Dr. Chad Johnson (14:09):
Correct.
Regan Robertson (14:09):
Oh, I'm so glad I can't stand that.
Dr. Chad Johnson (14:11):
And it, it wasn't just the phone answering, it was, um, it was
like a text version where if we didn'tpick up, but it was 24 7 around, you know.
So I like that at 2:00 AM if someonecalls us that it will text and, but like
I conceptually like it, it's just not.
There yet, and that goes back to theAI problem that I don't understand
(14:31):
is that not all AI is the same ai.
And sometimes I'm just like, this justseems like it's just an algorithm.
Like why are we calling this program,you know, ai, it's not learning.
Because if it was learning,I'd say, no, no, no, no.
Stop doing that, starting tomorrow.
You know, like, this is wrong.
You, you know, you can'tdrop an appointment at, uh,
Saturday at 9:00 PM Right.
(14:52):
You know, it's just like,that's not gonna work for us.
E even though, like it makes sense.
To the computer.
It's like, no, you'll seethem at 9:00 PM better.
So you unique
Regan Robertson (15:00):
marketing campaign for single dentists right there,
Dr. Chad Johnson (15:03):
right
Regan Robertson (15:04):
Stop and Saturdays at night.
Dr. Chad Johnson (15:06):
Yeah.
And you know what?
For the right price, I'm down.
But you know, you gotta goodness.
Some lead time.
So, okay.
So that was my long diatribe.
Uh, basically we took ownership of ourmarketing and uh, that's made a huge.
Difference.
And, um, I am excited even intrying our new software with
that, uh, called Trackable, um,that is checking out the data.
(15:30):
Uh, you know, it's, um, uh, it's takingall the leads I. And I was explaining
to you or before hitting record as well,that we, uh, as dentists do a great
job at customer service, taking careof the people who are already in your
office, but not on lead management.
And so for when, uh, a stranger thatcalls and you don't know their name or
(15:52):
hardly their phone number, and you know,trying to get them into the system of how
do we follow up with these people untilthey become leads or say, leave me alone.
Regan Robertson (16:03):
I, I, you know, the whole time you were talking, what I, what kept
going around in my brain is, you know,you get out what you put into it, and
it's very tempting, especially, uh, forbusiness owners that are also clinicians.
It, it's not your job.
Like, that's the first thing Ithink of is it's not your job.
Like, I've got other things,more important things to do.
And really what we're saying is, is canI go back to where I'm really passionate?
(16:25):
And why can this not justfunction the way it is?
Um, unfortunately.
I think we've fallenprayed to it too at times.
You.
It's more enticing to just domore or to do different than to
turn around and work on your core.
Think about like working outthe wrong set of muscles.
So, you know, um, in my own, like inmy own physical health journey, I, I
(16:48):
had hired a personal trainer and shewas phenomenal, but, but, uh, it was
the actual, you know, immune issuesgoing on in my diet going on that, um.
And I even worked with a dietician, solet's like that, like go that route.
So even that, those two things were,uh, were not the right things to do.
So just because you can do somethingdoesn't mean you should do something.
That's right.
(17:08):
And you have to really be adetective of sorts and you
have to do a diagnostic on it.
So if you, listeners, if you haven'trecently done an audit on your marketing.
When I, and I'm going toexplain what that means.
It, it's time to do that.
So first of all, if you've, if thoughtI've never really looked at my marketing
and all the intersections, that'sprobably the flag that you need to know
(17:28):
because there are things that you mightmiss that could be, you know, in, in
Chad's case it could be costing you, Imean, what thousands in patient care.
Uh, that that may be missed.
And it's not that yourteam is, is uh, malicious.
It's, it's not that it, that yourmarketing team is, is being lazy, but
you do have to take some ownershipand go through that process.
(17:50):
And so what I do is, is I like.
Chad, how you were saying that, you know,you went and started looking at each
little touch point and intersection.
So data is, is the, is the best part.
So it sounds to me like youknow, what started your journey
was the data piece of it.
Like the numbers were not adding upto you wasn't making sense at the end.
So I take, let's,
Dr. Chad Johnson (18:08):
let's put money to that.
You know, I was spending, uh, $8,000on marketing and I was like, I mean,
is that earning me the patience that Iwould think $8,000 should bring me right.
So when you talk about touch Yeah.
I just wanna make sureeveryone's understanding.
Yeah.
You are saying from.
From the moment you have reached outto the patient, like on, whether it
(18:30):
be SEO slash Google ads slash youknow, billboard, whatever, uh, phone
in the phone book, uh, phone numberin the phone book, then the patient
calls, then the patient doesn't.
Get an answer on, on our end, butthey are persistent, this particular
one, and they call back next week andthen they, they get through, but uh,
(18:51):
the person said, oh, I don't know.
And, but then they're persistentand they try one more time the next
day and they get the right person.
And that person then says.
Hey.
Yeah, no, we'd love to haveyou in, in fact, we have an
appointment next Wednesday.
Okay, great.
Well then the patient realizes,oh, next Wednesday, you know,
my car's being worked on.
I can't make it.
(19:12):
Um, you know what, I'll call back.
No, I can't.
Uh, my, I lost my phone.
And then they don't call you backand you go, well, what a rude person.
They never called us back.
What a, we don't wantjerks, you know, like this.
And.
Then it's lost.
It's a lost opportunity.
Or you get 'em to the door.
But they were afraid to open the doorbecause, you know, like they were
(19:32):
like, oh, I'm too scared to go in.
I've, it's been 15 years.
So there's so many opportunitiesfrom getting their butt in the chair.
Then even when they get their butt inthe chair to diagnose incorrectly and
then, uh, getting them to say yes totreatment and then the all important.
Paying for their treatment.
So, you know, stuff like setting upfinances, there's, there's this whole
litany of start to finish thinkingthrough the patient experience, um,
(19:56):
that where the ball could get dropped.
Keep going.
Regan Robertson (19:59):
Dropping the ball is exactly the point of, of doing this.
This audit is really paying attentionto, um, to what happens to that
patient because marketing does notstop, uh, just because they schedule.
So looking at the quality, uh,of it from, from every single
touch point is really important.
In my coaching group, um, throughCoach Builder and business made
(20:20):
simple, one of the things that Ihear often, um, in the community
itself is the amount of times that.
Businesses drop the ball.
So a client is basically bangingdown their door saying, I would, you
know, I would love to work with you.
I would love to hire you.
And the person says, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then they don't end up gettingback to them for whatever reason.
And it's a lost opportunity.
(20:41):
Take the landscaper, for example.
My husband and I wanna landscape our yard.
We went out and we gotbids to landscape our yard.
Guess who followed up with us?
Dr. Chad Johnson (20:54):
The person who got the contract.
None
Regan Robertson (20:56):
of them.
None of them of them.
It was crazy.
Yeah.
This was like a couple years ago now.
Uh.
Maybe they were busy.
I don't know.
One person did get back to us withan initial and we were like, yes,
and I wanted like some pavers.
And so I asked my husband, I said,go back to him and tell 'em that
you want a different style of paver.
And then that dropped off entirely too.
So it was just amazing to me and wasa very like visual, hands-on element.
(21:20):
Think of like an overgrown garden.
The garden is there, the canvas is there.
It can be beautiful, butyou have to pay attention.
So from, you're right.
So the website experience,how easy is it to schedule?
How easy is it to find?
I am amazed at how many websites I go to.
I can't find what city they're even in.
Yeah.
A lot.
(21:40):
And I'm like, what?
And I look at a lot ofdentist websites too.
So I'm like, where is this?
Where is this doctor even?
But
Dr. Chad Johnson (21:46):
it's not just dentist.
You're right.
Like not just, sometimes I'llbe looking for a company and I'm
like, where are they based out of?
And you go to contact us, right?
And then it's like, yeah, uh, here,send us a message and we'll get back.
I'm like.
No, I want to contact you.
Where is your place even, you know,like go into Google Maps and you're so
Regan Robertson (22:02):
mystery.
Mystery shopping is one of thebest things I think you can do
for your, for your marketing,for the, uh, consumer experience.
And then on your side,Chad, and, and my side.
So, okay.
We've got this mystery ofmarketing isn't working.
Why is it not working?
And really it does come down to thehandoffs and looking at the handoffs.
So what quality of lead areyou getting in the door?
So looking at those names and, and,um, and then those that who schedule,
(22:26):
I would take a look and see, arethey fitting your demographic?
Meaning are they, are they needingthe services that you're really
passionate about providing?
And, and make sure that your, uh, youknow, that your marketing is pulling the
right type of leads for your practice.
Sure.
So paying attention tothat is really good.
Um.
Dr. Chad Johnson (22:44):
But the blame fell on us.
Like specifically for us it was, but you
Regan Robertson (22:47):
found, what you found out was the blame fell on you.
For
Dr. Chad Johnson (22:49):
sure.
For sure.
You know, like that, that it was, itwas like, wow, we could really, here's
what I, um, a statistic that I just as,just math, I mean, so 168 hours in a
week and we work for seven hour days.
You know, let's even just say eight,but you know, if we're answering
the, the phone about seven hoursor, or eight, that's 16% of the week
(23:11):
that we are answering the phone.
So, uh, yeah, so what I love it
Regan Robertson (23:15):
when you do your engineering brain, I love it when you
start to break this all out into formulas.
It's so, I love how your brain works.
Keep going.
Dr. Chad Johnson (23:22):
Well, think, think, think about the 83% of the time.
Otherwise that, so we're notanswering the phone 83% of the day.
Now, how many people arecalling it at midnight?
FairPoint, I mean, right.
But, but you know, so that'sjust a, a uniform, uh, equation.
But nonetheless, like we are reallyonly available, uh, uh, 16% of the,
(23:44):
the week or, you know, any givenday, uh, to answer the phone and.
And so that first off meansthat the patients are getting
filtered by our closure.
Yeah.
You know, while we're enjoyingthe weekend and naturally.
So I don't think that's wrong thatwe're enjoying the weekend, but you
know, how are we making sure thatwe're following up with these people?
(24:06):
And it's interesting when yougo to call logs, seeing how.
You can, you can track, you know,the, the phone number if you have
the right software, and you cansee that these people are sometimes
are calling five times, you know,they're, they want you five times.
Sure.
You know, so they call, uh, theycall Thursday, um, they call
(24:26):
Thursday after dinner, 6:00 PM Okay.
Then they call Friday morning, uh, as 8:00AM Then they call, uh, Friday afternoon.
Now you've been closed.
You, you think they shouldbe able to figure this out?
They probably could figurethis out, but they don't know.
And so now they've called three times.
Well,
Regan Robertson (24:43):
they call when they, when it's convenient for them to Correct.
'cause they're likely working.
I've never understood thisin our culture, by the way.
Just throwing that out there.
If I'm working a nine to five,the majority of people are
working nine to five and all thebusinesses are open nine to five.
It really, I mean, it gives youwhat your little tiny break in
between your day and, and let's faceit, I think, I think collectively
in the United States especially,everyone's pretty much overworked.
(25:04):
I really don't think I've everheard a professional, not yet
say, my life is just chill.
Like I kind of do what I wantunless you're independently wealthy.
Right.
No, everyone's hustling,so Yeah, of course.
They're gonna be like, oh my gosh.
And I bet it, I bet it's like this too.
I, I have to make that appointment.
I've got a call.
I hope they're still open.
Right.
Yeah.
That's how you get thoselate afternoon calls.
(25:24):
Yep.
Oh man.
Dr. Chad Johnson (25:26):
I even was dropping off some flyers for our implant.
Um, uh, uh.
Open house that we're doing.
And I stopped by one businessa couple blocks away and um,
there were no cars in it.
I was like, oh, crud.
So I pull up, I look on thewindow, it said, uh, uh, you
know, open until three 30.
And I was just like, oh man.
You know, it was like fouro'clock and I was like, man,
(25:49):
they're open until three 30.
Uh, the awesome for them, but I wasjust like, I missed my opportunity.
'cause they were closed mid-afternoon.
I was just like, that's awesome for them.
But holy moly.
Regan Robertson (26:01):
I, I jotted this down because really I wanna, um, listeners, I
wanna give you something that you can goback and you can look at your own practice
or business and, and kind of dive into it.
So there, when you are marketing, thereare multiple elements to your marketing.
There is the message and thevisual that goes on all of your
efforts, on your website, on yourbillboards, on your direct mailers,
on your radio ads, and all of that.
(26:22):
That could be a problem.
Your messaging could be off.
Here's a hint.
If you're talking about how wonderful youare, doctor, and how many advanced degrees
you have, you might be putting yourselfin the hero seat and that is a mistake.
Go check out the interview with Dr.JJ Peterson a few episodes back,
and you can learn all about that.
It could be your messaging might be off.
(26:43):
Um, it could be to Chad'sTestament, a dropped.
Ball, you might actually be gettingleads with your digital advertising,
with, uh, it, with all of yourdifferent marketing elements.
Heck, your billboard or your, uh,no, your little ad, your ad in the
church bulleted might be, might besmashing it, but it does nothing
if the ball gets dropped once that.
(27:04):
That phone call is made
Dr. Chad Johnson (27:06):
or Yeah, is after church.
They're on the churchbulletin after church.
They're calling on Sunday afternoonand they don't get an answer.
Now, they should be able to figurethat out, but they just saw it.
They called and theycan't get ahold of you.
Regan Robertson (27:18):
So what's cool about that though, here?
So here's another, here's anothercool thing about marketing
and knowing your audience.
There are mega churches around, right?
So there's, I was at a churchthat had like 4,500 people in it.
If you are big in a community, itdoesn't have to be religious based.
Any base, if you are in a community,you meet them where they're at.
So think about that carefully.
(27:40):
While for chat, it might not makesense to have a phone answering
system or somebody open on Sunday.
It sure as heck might if you are deeplyembedded in a large community that is
going to likely be calling at that time.
So pay attention.
And listen to what your audience is doing.
And Chad, you just married itwith the most exciting data.
So Chad going through and saying, okay,here's when my callers are calling.
(28:03):
Most like, and here's whenwe're not answering those calls.
He may have discovered somethingreally interesting and one fix
might end up solving that problem.
So look at your intersections.
Carefully.
Um, and this is probably the part thatwill make you groan, and I get it.
I've done it myself.
It does take time.
It's worth the investment.
(28:23):
Or you can just keep throwing moneyevery month at marketing and kind of
hoping that it works, but you should.
And
Dr. Chad Johnson (28:28):
being mad it's not
Regan Robertson (28:29):
right and being mad that it's not, before you
go and blame, my website sucks.
My digital advertising sucks.
My what?
My whatever sucks.
Try to do a really bigdiagnostic on it first to see
where the actual problem could.
And, and, and I'll tell you, um, onething where, where I've heard doctors say
(28:49):
that their marketing still doesn't work,um, comes around the time of follow up.
So they've actually had an appointment,but that lifetime patient value
is low because they came in andthen they never came back again.
Well, what I discovered in likeone of my own journeys is how
well a practice medical dental.
Any, any health modality, howwell they follow up with you post
(29:13):
appointment makes a huge difference.
And especially in dentistry, becauseyou have treatment planning, medical,
you have treatment planning, you areeither gonna say yes to that, you're
gonna delay it or you're gonna say no.
And so it can, life gets Lifey and Chadand I know this so well, and I know you
listening to this, you know this so well.
Life gets lifey, you get in the car,you, you say you're gonna think about it.
(29:33):
Then, you know, work calls your familycalls, your kid calls, life gets
in the way, and then you forget toschedule it if you don't make a touch,
like, and that is a marketing touchpoint, if you don't follow up, you
could end up losing that opportunity.
So, uh, just like a garden you'regonna, you're going to get out of it,
what you put into it and how big thattomato grows is really up to you.
And, and I think, I thinkmarketing plays a really important
(29:56):
part when we pay attention and,and value each element of it.
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:01):
If you have software, uh, or some ability of tracking and
you are able doctor to do what I did,I followed up with people via text and
I would see the tracking phone number.
I would write this message andthen cut and paste it so I didn't
have to retype it every time.
Um, I actually saved it in my phoneso I could, you know, hit this again,
Regan Robertson (30:22):
mark.
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:23):
Yes.
Every week is, I'll write and say, Hey,this is Dr. Chad from Veranda Dentistry.
I was auditing my phone calllogs and saw that you called.
I wanted to make sure that I wasfollowing up with you, that you were
satisfied with how we interacted with you.
If you have any questions orwant to, you know, schedule
an appointment, let me know.
(30:44):
This is my personal cell phone numberor however you want it to finish that,
let me know by calling whatever, right?
But.
I,
Regan Robertson (30:51):
I can hear the, I can hear the doctor groans right now.
Like I could, I, I feel I can hear it,
Dr. Chad Johnson (30:55):
but, but here's the deal, here's the deal on my
phone, I mean, just so you know,you might have a different area.
It's how my area works andI. People don't bother me.
Like, so if you're just like, if I givemy phone number out to a thousand people,
a thousand people are gonna bother me.
No, they won't.
This isn't the nineties that people areexcited to call your cellular number.
Okay?
(31:15):
So, no, they won't, they'rebusy, they have things to do.
You're not actually that important.
So, uh, so give themyour number and you're.
If, if you want to make appointments, ifyou're full, maybe this episode isn't for
you, keep spending money how you want.
But if you, if you wish you had moreappointments, if you wish that your, uh,
customer care was taken to, uh, the nextlevel, uh, model that as a leader by
(31:39):
sending a message and you can hide it ina, like a hidden, um, text message app.
They have those.
So I don't, I'm not saying you have to doit the way that I'm doing it, but reaching
out to them, um, you will get more.
Re-engagement, I think is the word for it.
And, and, and you'll be amazed thatif you're like, man, this next week is
kind of empty, we'll reengage with thepeople who tried calling you the last
(32:02):
week or two and you will get it full.
Regan Robertson (32:06):
I think making it, you know, I. As a consumer, it
wouldn't matter to me if it was mydoctor texting me personally, which I
would be shocked at if that happened.
And yes, I would feel very special, um,if the office manager reached out to me.
I would also feel special.
And here's why.
The way that you justdescribed the message, it felt.
More personal and it put yourself in theguide role and it made them the hero.
(32:29):
It seemed very gen like genuine.
Dr. Chad Johnson (32:31):
Yes.
Regan Robertson (32:32):
It didn't feel to me like, you know, uh, hey schedule,
we, we got, we got, we got openingsand just go ahead and schedule.
It was actually seemed very, um, caring.
And so I think how youmessage it is also a big deal.
Um, but doctor, if you're listeningand you're like, I just don't, I just
don't have the time for that, or I don'twanna make the investment, or I'm too
introverted, or whatever it may be.
I think your team could do it too,in a HIPAA compliant way, obviously.
(32:55):
So check out the appsthat are appropriate.
I'm not, I'm not technical on, on that,that piece of it, but I, I do know
that that would be enormously valuable.
And one of the things thatI've talked about many times
should be inserted here is.
I received through my patient hub appat the medical clinic that I go to.
Well wishes on a trip that I was taking.
That was it.
There was, there was no, hey, scheduleyour follow up or anything like that.
(33:18):
It was just, Hey, I hope youhave a good time on your trip.
And that changed the world for me.
It felt seen, it felt heard and and hadnothing to do with their care, but I will
always go to them because I felt seen.
So I love that you'redoing this and I love that.
I love so much, Chad, that youwere willing to take a hard look.
Keep your biases down and your,and like your blind, like your
(33:39):
little, what do they, what do theycall the little blind spotters?
The, the little, what arethey called on horses?
They put 'em on the sides of their face.
What are this called?
Dr. Chad Johnson (33:47):
Uh, I was, if I were quicker, I was gonna come up with some,
like, stupid name and you're gonna belike, no, it wasn't, and then I was
gonna be like, no, I was just kidding.
Regan Robertson (33:55):
I just like that you're, that you were able to take a, a very,
um, impartial look at it and I think, uh.
Dr. Chad Johnson (34:02):
It was tough because I, I, I did have emotion to it, so like
I don't want people to think, wow, I wishI could be so emotionally unattached and,
and just rationally look, no, no, no, no.
Kate can attest to this.
I was, I was mad.
Like, she was probablyjust like, oh, shoot.
Like he's mad.
Yeah.
And like, I, but I was like, if I don'tgo through, like, that's not me normally,
(34:25):
but I was like, I, I think I have to gothrough this emotion and like figure,
like, 'cause it's just like, I don't knowif you've ever been a parent coming home
and it's like, what's this house a mess?
Like what, why is this house a mess?
And your caveman brain turns onand then like, then you settle down
and go, oh yeah, I made this mess.
You know, it wasn't my kids, it was me.
Oops.
So.
Regan Robertson (34:46):
Accountability, willingness to look in all, you
know, under all the covers, under allthe beds, look under the, you know.
On all the areas.
I think that that's right.
Will be, yeah.
It'll be worth it.
Well, thank you Chad.
Thanks for jumping on.
Um, thanks, listeners, get excitedfor part two of this because we are
interviewing Sarah Hansen, who is a masterat this, and she brings a lot of energy to
(35:07):
the conversation and a lot of excitement.
So we are going to talk about marketingfrom the inside out with Sarah and,
uh, and she's gonna tell us some ofthe results that she's been getting,
which are, um, uh, uncredible.
So, uh, tune in for that.
Look to that next week.
Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of Everyday Practices Podcast.
It would mean the world if you canhelp spread the word by sharing this
(35:30):
episode with a fellow dentist andleave us a review on iTunes or Spotify.
Do you have an extraordinary story you'dlike to share or feedback on how we can
make this podcast even more Awesome.
Drop us an email at podcast.
At productive dentist.com.
And don't forget to check out ourother podcasts from Productive
Dentist academy@productivedentist.comslash podcasts.
(35:51):
See you next week.
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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Charlie is America's hardest working grassroots activist who has your inside scoop on the biggest news of the day and what's really going on behind the headlines. The founder of Turning Point USA and one of social media's most engaged personalities, Charlie is on the front lines of America’s culture war, mobilizing hundreds of thousands of students on over 3,500 college and high school campuses across the country, bringing you your daily dose of clarity in a sea of chaos all from his signature no-holds-barred, unapologetically conservative, freedom-loving point of view. You can also watch Charlie Kirk on Salem News Channel