July 30, 2025 • 46 mins
Even the best dental practices hit breaking points. In this candid episode of the Everyday Practices Dental Podcast, Dr. Devin Giron shares the story of his “week from hell.” From empty schedules to team miscommunication and rising stress, he faced the kind of week that makes every owner want to walk away. Joined by Dr. Chad Johnson, Dr. Maggie Augustyn, and Regan Robertson, he shares how he pushed through and kept his team moving forward when quitting felt easier.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Chad Johnson (00:00):
Yeah.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome toEveryday Practices Dental podcast
with my two co-hosts ReaganRobertson and Dr. Maggie Augustine.
Today we have a special guest, a long timebuddy, Dr. Devin Hiro from New Mexico.
Regan Robertson (00:19):
Listeners, listeners,
yes.
Thanks for joining.
Be listeners,
go
to, happy to be here.
Go to right away.
You can do two things.
You can listen to this podcast and youcan pull up Devin's website right now.
Go to vida vda dental sf.com.
Yes, it can give you agreat visual right away.
Color, psychology and tech for thepassion this doctor brings to Santa Fe.
(00:42):
13th generation, I think,uh, New Mexico, um, person.
Uh, it's, he's, he's, he embodiesproductivity and, um, also a lot of soul.
So, uh, Chad invited, uh, Dr. Devon to beon our podcast, and I just wanted to wrap
us around a controlling idea, Chad, here.
Uh, because, because we are, ourlisteners need to, they need to
(01:03):
get right to the point, right?
They
need content.
We're,
let's do this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and we are here to discuss whathappens when you have a not so great week.
A lot of us like to put ourbest face forward, right?
Our curated pictures and ourwonderful Instagram posts.
And isn't that so nice?
And the reality is some weeksare anything but that at all.
(01:24):
And we're ready to throweverything out the window.
So we were trying to figure out, you know,what type of expertise we can bring in.
Thought we go.
I thought we go that directiontoday, Devin, welcome.
Because
listeners listen normallyDevon is killing it.
Devon is killing it and I'm proud of him.
Yeah, listen you yeah, you are.
And, and your website will show ityour, your, your photos that you
(01:45):
po post on social media, Instagram,you know, like all that stuff.
You, you do pretty stuff.
You do good work.
Um, and you would be fun to work for.
You would be fun to work with.
Uh, you would be a greatdoctor to, to visit.
Like you're just, I, I think the worldof you and I appreciate you coming
on, but tell us about this week.
Dr. Devin Giron (02:07):
What the week from hell?
Yes.
It's been, it's, yeah, it's been brew for a while now
and uh, basically Monday come in.
Production's not the goal, right?
So I'm stressed out.
We all know how that is.
We, we have a goal we wanna meet,especially as productive dentist.
Academy graduates, whatever youwanna call it, we all have a goal
(02:29):
and we all wanna hit that goal.
And when we don't hit that goal, sometimesit's good, but then when you look at
your week and you're like, I'm not agoal Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and you
look at the next week and you're like,oh wow, it's even worse the next week.
Mm-hmm.
Your level of stress goes up and whenyou're trying to bring on a new associate
and you're like, I need to feed him stuff.
(02:51):
Mm-hmm.
Then there, or becauseYeah, a hundred percent.
I gotta feed this guy.
So you eat last as the guyat the top 'cause because you
wanna see him or her succeed.
And so at any rate, getting the daysup, it seemed, usually my team is
ready to work for it and we're justall rowing in the same direction.
(03:13):
But for some odd reason, it just seemedlike every single time we would get
green gain traction on something.
We would just take five steps.
The other direction stuff wouldfall off the schedule stuff.
Patients were yelling at us like,why don't you know what you're doing?
Um, we had 10 patients show upyesterday that thought they had
an appointment, but they didn'tbecause of our glitch software.
(03:35):
Um, we had.
Front office people, not there.
It's someone, her, their, their fatherpassed away and then get coverage.
And so, um, yeah, come in, there'strash piled up all over my deck,
like probably 10 bags of trashbecause no one took the trash out.
And, um.
Yeah, just a bunch of shit.
(03:55):
Sorry.
We can cuss in this podcast, right?
Regan Robertson (03:58):
Yes.
It was a rotten no good terribleweek is what it sounds like.
Like
Dr. Devin Giron (04:01):
one, yeah.
It was bad.
We made it work, but I mean, it just,it's just, uh, I mean, as I mentioned
to you guys before, I wanted towalk out on Wednesday and I, yeah, I
really wanna walk out and I knew ifI walked out, I was like, what are
you, I like, you're just a big baby.
Like, what are you gonna, what,what's that gonna prove You?
Just abandon your team.
Well,
Regan Robertson (04:20):
when you say walk out, Devin, what do you mean?
Like, like just like put downthe handpiece and be like, I'm
out for the rest of this week.
I'm gonna go.
Dr. Devin Giron (04:26):
Yeah, I was gonna say I was gonna, I was gonna be like,
you guys cancel this day after this.
I'm done.
This is crap.
This has been a crap week.
I'm done.
Like, we're done.
This is, I don't need thisexercise of crap anymore.
I've had it up to here.
I wanna be a big baby, cry andfeel bad for myself and, um, I
(04:47):
just wanna go home and not be atthe office, be around and put in
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (04:51):
perspective.
How many times have you wantedto do that in your career?
Dr. Devin Giron (04:55):
Uh, I think I lied before in terms of this, like, I'm sure
I'm, I have a bad memory, but I canremember probably three times from alone.
Like, this is not the firsttime, this is the daily thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This was, I remember the first time, uh.
This is when I signed up for PDA.
So I was like, I can't do this.
(05:16):
Like, I'm not, this isn't cut out for me.
And uh, as I mentioned, I went to a,uh, that was a dark spot, but luckily
I had PDA helped me out through that.
And then probably somewhere betweenbetween there I wanted to walk out.
And then this last.
It's last Wednesdaywhere they took the cake.
Regan Robertson (05:33):
Do you, I'm curious, do you like audibly
communicate that to your team?
When I'm having, I've had no good,terrible, really just crappy weeks
before, and it does, it feelslike it builds on itself too.
Like one thing happens andI can mentally take it.
Another thing happens.
I've still got the fortitude there andit starts to pile up, and then I am
losing my executive ability to navigate.
(05:54):
Quick decisions and things like that,that really would keep us moving forward.
And it just gets frustrating.
And so my team will tell you thatI will say, I am not functioning at
capacity or I am not acting, um, likethe leader that I wanna act right now.
And I want you to be aware of that.
If we're on a one-on-one or a teamgroup meeting, like this is where my
mentality is at because I don't wannalead as a leader, it ripples off.
(06:15):
They're going to emulate what youput out into the universe and that.
Makes me really mad, Devin.
I get really mad when I losecontrol of my emotions and I
allow those things to pile up.
And, um, and so that has been my, uh, forbetter or worse, I guess, communication
tactic of being like, here's where I'm at.
I don't know how to deal with this.
Instead of, because thealternative is throwing up my
(06:38):
hands and being like, I'm out.
I'm out for a week.
I gotta like, you know, letmy brain rest and cool down.
So Wednesday for you was, I guess, your.
Your hottest moment, you know, of, of the,the week, what happened in that moment and
how did you, how did you work through it?
Was it the dentistry, was it the people?
(06:59):
Like was it all of it?
Like, what was Yeah, what was going on?
Dr. Devin Giron (07:03):
It was all of it.
I mean, if we can't, can't when, whenI'm listening to phone calls on the
phone and you always want to think like,that's probably the number one thing
that's gonna bring people to your office.
And the thing thatreally pissed me off was.
Someone called the office and said,Hey, my, my grandson's coming from outta
town and I'd already listened to like,probably 10 calls the previous day.
(07:24):
And this day my grandson'scoming is coming from outta town.
He lost a bracket for his braces.
Uh, do you do that type of work?
And we don't, we don't do that.
But instead of saying, you know what,um, unfortunately we don't take care
of that here, but here are threeother providers that we refer to that
would be more than happy to help you.
(07:45):
We don't do that.
Dr. Cha (07:46):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Devin Giron (07:48):
And I was like, it hurt because I'll talk to people for an hour
and I know they're not gonna do treatment.
I'm like, you might not be here,we might not be for you, and that's
totally fine, but this is what I doif I were you and I just want to help
you get to where you need to get to.
And you would think that if you do that,other people would want to emulate that.
(08:13):
But when we do that, it's just are it's a reflection of, I don't
know, I don't know what it is.
Whether it's you at the top,they're not seeing that.
I mean, 'cause people listenwith their eyes, right?
Mm-hmm.
They see what you're doing andthey hopefully you would think,
want to do some capacity of that.
And so when you hear that and you hearit 10 times the day before, or not
(08:33):
necessarily that, but things boiling downto not wanting to help people because
they're not worth X amount of dollars.
That is not good for patient care.
Does that make sense?
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (08:49):
Yeah.
So what you, you saw is the visionthat you have for your practice, which
is essentially being a compassionatehuman being and not being driven
necessarily by profit, but by care.
Yes.
And compassionate care for a fellowhuman being was not being replicated
by the people that were standingthere welcoming patients with you.
(09:11):
And then that ended up just draggingyou down with an air of maybe resentment
when you came back to your office.
And that kind of affected what you startedseeing, having heard those phone calls?
Dr. Devin Giron (09:26):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
No, it just, just magnifiedeverything you were feeling, right?
Just like, oh, great, like I'm a fit.
There's
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (09:33):
no point to what I'm doing because nobody's
seeing it or emulating it.
This is no longer my office.
Dr. Devin Giron (09:39):
Right, and that's where it's, and those are things that
most dentists don't ever know aboutbecause they're not on the phones.
Usually when my schedule slows down, Iactually get, I'm like, what do I do?
Do I surf dental town?
Do I go read a book?
What do I do?
Do I go on YouTube?
Right?
And then when I get like,alright, what's going on?
(10:00):
And you know, what's, what's going on?
Like, I'll go listen to the phonecalls and then I'll get really upset.
And then we'll have people in the olike, bring that person in the office.
We need to talk about this.
And it's always, um, it's alwaysdisheartening because, um, you can
spend a lot of money on consulting,training and, um, getting your team, uh,
(10:24):
coaches at PDA to guide the staff, butit's up to the staff to implement that.
Yeah.
And sadly, I don't listen tothe phone calls enough to say,
Hey, you did a great job there.
All they see is the hey, likewhen I actually go through those
sometimes it's like, this is whatyou did bad, so that's my fault.
(10:45):
Like, Hey dude, like they're really goodat converting patients, but like sometimes
when you're having a bad day, then you'relike, all right, let's make it worse.
Let's go listen to phone calls.
Let see what's going on.
It's just too much.
Regan Robertson (10:56):
Has, has your staff been with you for a really long time?
Like through the differentiterations of, um, consulting
and, and training and, okay.
Okay.
So they, so it's something thatthey should inherently know it,
because what really it comes downto, it's a, it's a core value.
Violation, you know, in your heartwith the, the care aspect of it,
(11:17):
not being proactive that way, um,and then not translating it over.
So I'm just trying to be like, inyour head right now, when you listened
to that, was it like, come on guys,like we know to do this, but for
whatever reason you're not doing it.
Dr. Devin Giron (11:30):
I, yes.
So that's something I can.
Figure out.
Mm-hmm.
And I've never beenable to figure that out.
And we do exceptionallywell with what we have.
Dr. Cha (11:44):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Devin Giron (11:46):
But it does come with a lot of stress that
hangs over the leadership at thetop because it's just too much.
You're like, you, youdon't wanna be like, what?
Are you stupid?
Are you trying to hurt me?
Like what?
Like you can't do that.
That's not.
That wouldn't ever work.
You want to shake people andbe like, what don't you get?
(12:07):
Like we, you want a script?
I don't want to use a script.
Okay, let's practice this, andyou practice it, and then you hope
that something translates intomomentum, which clearly it does.
The practice we run is avery well run practice.
I just feel like we're alwaysrunning at 30% of where we
could be if we cared about.
(12:30):
Each other in a way that, uh,we should as human beings, but
it's do you hire this person?
Do you find them?
Where is this unicorn?
Or do you just kind of meet 'em wherethey're at and try to get them 20% better?
You crying Chad?
Yeah, it's, it made me crying.
Tear up.
This is just.
I know.
Are you for real crying?
(12:51):
No, I'm sorry.
Dr. Cha (12:53):
I just,
he and I play like deadpan, so sorry.
Yeah.
I, listeners, I had to wipe my eyes.
Okay.
And Devin's like, why aren't you crying?
I got full attention to me.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (13:02):
Can I?
Your voice is shaking a little too.
Yeah,
a hundred percent baby could tear up.
Okay.
You.
Regan Robertson (13:09):
I, I, I, I wanna put this into perspective, uh, especially
for you listening right now, and asto the kind of doctor that Devin is.
Obviously the care comes throughreally loud and clear, but this,
I mean, your office, this issomething you truly do work out.
This is a real high level.
Problem that I think is affecting everysingle practice to a certain extent.
(13:31):
But you don't get to over 1,005 starreviews, which is what you have right now.
And the one that justcame in 17 hours ago.
Do you mind if I read it, Devin?
Dr. Devin Giron (13:41):
Yeah, go ahead.
Regan Robertson (13:42):
Uh, okay.
It's from Jim and Jimsays five star rating.
Vita Dental Studio is the finest dentalfacility I have ever experienced, and
I have lived in New York City, la, SanFrancisco, Miami, and Hong Kong doctors.
Hi and Dietrich.
Get my highest rating aswell as all the staff.
If you live in Northern New Mexico,I urge you to check Vita out.
(14:02):
You'll be glad you did.
Wow.
Great.
And that was 17 hours ago on the back of one of the
crappiest weeks that you've had.
Right?
Right.
And I just wanted to translate toyou, this is how deep you care.
Um, and the things that, that aremaking you upset is because you are,
your purpose is, is much deeper than.
(14:24):
The dentist, the, thedentistry that you provide, um,
Dr. Devin Giron (14:27):
right.
Where
Regan Robertson (14:28):
does that come from?
It's the relationships.
Dr. Devin Giron (14:30):
Yeah.
No, it's the relationshipswith your staff.
Right.
And I know you're supposed to have a, likea be friendly but not friends, but I've
violated that a darn bill, same me times.
And, um.
I know Dr. Dietrich's a little bitmore professional than than me.
He keeps that barrier there.
And I respect that because people whohave boundaries, I like, I respect that.
(14:51):
Mm-hmm.
Sometimes my boundaries like blurand it's can be a really good
thing, but also a really bad thing.
And so, um, these are people that, that Ilove and you just wanna see him do good,
just like you wanna see anyone do well.
Right.
And sometimes when they, when they screwup or they drop the ball just because of.
(15:12):
I don't know, carelessness and lazinesssometimes 'cause they just didn't
wanna do it or take the time to do it.
It's more of a personal sting becauseit's like, I've always told him, I
tell him this about Dr. Dietrich.
I'm like, you guys have theopportunity to be around Dr. Dietrich.
And he says a lot of things that otherdentists don't say and other human
beings don't say, oh, he's very goodwith, uh, verbiage and just how he
(15:36):
deals with, uh, certain situations.
He can diffuse a situation.
Very good.
I'm like, it's an opportunity to,to be around someone like that.
Dennis paid to be around someonelike that and um, to them they just
see him as another human being.
I'm assuming it's the same thingwith, with you guys and your staff or
or staff members around Bruce Baird.
(15:56):
It was just kinda like he is what he is.
So what, like he's nothing special.
He is just, and I think sometimesas staff members or even myself, we
take that for granted and I thinkthat's what kind of makes me upset.
'cause I would've loved tohave a mentor like that.
Um, in my life early on.
Does that make sense?
And I always gravitate towardthose people, but I really had
(16:17):
to work to get that knowledge.
It just wasn't, uh, in myfamily or, or around me.
Does that make any sensewhat I'm trying to say?
Mm-hmm.
It does.
You, you, yeah.
You, you are the people yousurround yourself around with, and
sometimes you have to seek thosepeople out when you have those
people around you every single day.
Dr. Dietrich, Dr. Posade.
(16:38):
Dr. Maggie, Dr. Chad here.
It's like, um, sometimes those peopledon't realize how special that that is.
Does that make any sense?
Regan Robertson (16:46):
It absolutely.
I mean, relationshipsare living, breathing.
Entities and, and I think you'reright, Devin, we, we aren't human.
If we, if, if we don't think about, youknow, are we gonna blur the lines or how
do we, how do we manage our professionalrelationship and, and use our heart
in a way that's, that's appropriate.
And I think every.
(17:07):
Business owners struggleswith that to an extent.
And some strategies around thatare, are walling it off completely.
Um, you know, some can, can put upboundaries that are really healthy.
Like, it sounds like, um, Galen can,can keep healthy boundaries in place.
And some of us, we just, we caredeeply and we, we don't, we haven't
always had that reflected to us either,like you said, like having proper
mentors to show us and model that.
(17:28):
Um, I've done a couple of podcastepisodes with Chad where, um, I, I've.
Talked about, um, having healthy conflictand what that can look and feel like.
And if it's not modeled to you,you just don't know what to do.
Um, and Maggie and Chad, it sounds like,uh, with you guys shaking your head that
it's a similar or nodding in agreeance,it's a similar scenario for you where
(17:49):
you can have a bad week and, and the teamisn't performing to the core values that
you thought were really crystal clear.
And I'm, I'm just curious.
From each of you, all three of you, whatdifferent things you've tried because
Devin, you said, I don't really have ananswer for that and I don't know how to
to correct it, that that will go maybepredictable or sustainable for the future.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (18:15):
What's really interesting is that we, uh, we have a
group of friends that we are in, and wehave voiced very similar issues recently.
This is something that wetalk about almost daily.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
The exact same thing.
It's, it's spinning plates.
Mm-hmm.
You, you, if you can manage spinningfour or 10 plates, I don't know what
(18:39):
the world record is, 30, you know, likethere's a, there's a, um, you ha but
entropy is going to slow those down.
And people quit and people,you know, like move.
And then you've got new people andthen, you know, you've got old people
that go, you know, like they revertback and then sadly you revert back.
(18:59):
You know, like you, you have timeswhen you regress on what you do
well, and if someone called youout on it and they were like.
Hey, have you not been on your A game?
You, it'd be like, ouch.
That kind of hurts.
But you're, you're, you're right.
I mean, I haven't been doing thediagnostic discussion that I should
have with the patients, or, no, wehaven't revisited our core values and
(19:22):
gone through explanations of what thoseare, which the PDA team did internally.
You guys did that, and youcame up with, uh, your, um.
What was that called?
You took all the core values and thenyou wrote up a contract of sorts.
What was that?
Regan,
Regan Robertson (19:39):
your key characteristics and your daily actions.
Yes.
And, and you guys said, okay, here'sexamples under the core values mm-hmm.
Of, of who we are and, andexamples of what those are.
Yeah.
And, and, and the team writes that andthen, and then they're evaluated on those.
And lately, because it, that's still.
(19:59):
It doesn't, it, you could be anOlympic, you know, team, dental team.
You could be an Olympic ratedental team, but you're still gonna
have entropy working against you.
Inertia, you know, is helping pull youforward, but then the entropy is slowing
you down and, and pulling you back.
You have to reengage that andit's, it's never going to be done.
(20:21):
It would be like saying,Hey, our kitchen is full.
And it's like, yeah, for now, butgive it a week, give it a month.
It's just like, youalways have to stock that.
You always have to keepon watering the grass.
You keep on having, you know, likeeverything just, Rene needs renewed, like.
Do you think, do you think that, um, especially as high
performers, so Devin, I'll ask you, doyou, do you think as a high performer,
(20:45):
when you see, when you handle phone,when you're listening to phone calls
like that, are you concerned that it'sa habit or it's going to become a habit?
And that is where that upset lies.
Like, this isn't an outlier or an off day.
This could be something that is systemic.
Dr. Devin Giron (21:06):
I don't know.
I mean, the fish rots from thehead down, so I don't think
it's necessarily systemic.
Mm-hmm.
From the guys on top.
I remember I was talking to this dentist,his name's Dr. Ling, he's in Montreal.
He had a, I think like a 30or something ridiculous, like
20 dentists in this practice.
His father created thislegacy practice and um.
(21:29):
I, I was just getting into privatepractice and I was like, all right,
tell me about the systems you have.
Yeah.
And he's like, there are no systems.
I was like, you're an idiot.
Like, like, really?
Like quit, quit screwing around with me.
Like, tell me what the systems are.
And he's like, we don't have systems.
People have to want to do their jobbecause they want to do their job well.
(21:51):
They have to want to do it, and it'snot something you can force upon them.
So, um.
For us, when I see a breakdown in notentering the phone, right, it's uh,
usually a symptom of something else.
Like, what's going on?
Are you stressed out here?
Are we pushing you too hard?
What is it like, tell me where you are at.
Is it a home life thing?
Like where, what, uh.
(22:13):
I know you and I know thatyou think this is subpar.
So how do we get whatever's causingthe problem or the stress out of that
funk to get you moving in the rightdirection so that you don't cost me
thousands of dollars on the phone?
Am it costing me, costing you potentialbonuses and raises and costing Dr.
Dietrich and his livelihood and Dr.Greg, we just bought on his livelihood,
(22:35):
like we're all affected by this, right?
So what's this like where,where is the breakdown?
You having a bad.
Like something going on in yourpersonal, like it's a, like, it's
usually a syndrome of something else.
Do you see,
Regan Robertson (22:48):
oh, sorry to cut you off.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Do, do you see a correlation sinceall three of you have associates or
have had associates, um, do you see acorrelation in bringing in an associate
and then the disruption with the teamthat that lowers typical performance?
Yes.
I've seen that anyway, in thedentist that I've, you know,
interacted with over the years.
Just
this week I had a patient that,um, came in and she says, Hey, you
(23:12):
know, look at this tooth right here.
Your last dentist, um, was gettingupset 'cause the assistant was
saying that he, he, you know, heneeded to do something different.
And then he got mad and he left the room.
And this is the first I'm hearingabout it, but I'm thinking.
It's not the only time I heard aboutit when one of my assistants would
(23:35):
be like, well, Chad does it this way.
And, and naturally if Chad does itthat way, it's gotta be the best way.
And so, you know, my associate was tryingto do his own thing and he'd come to
me and be like, dude, like I get that.
I don't do everything to exactly howyou do it, but like, is that a problem?
And I was just like, no.
As long as it's.
Done to standard.
I don't care if you use one instrumentand then the other, or the other,
(23:57):
then the other and or whatever,you know, and stuff like that.
Like I don't wanna micromanage,you know, every instrument you're
handed off and as an example.
And uh, and, but it was funny, thepatient's perception, you know,
he got up and left 'cause he and Ijust don't think it was done right.
And it's just kind of funny'cause it's just like, well that's
drawing a lot of conclusions.
Right.
(24:17):
But she was aware of.
The weirdness of my assistant, who'salmost, it's, it's cool that she was, you
know, standing up for me and you know,like, this is how we do it around here.
But I'm just also going, I mean,we, I don't need him to be a robot.
Carbon copy of me.
He can be his own person.
And, and you know, like there aretimes when it's like, yeah, the
(24:40):
way I do it is pretty darn good.
Copy that.
But at the same time, if someone says,well, I don't like saying the, the word.
It is.
I like saying it's, it's like,well then say it's, I don't need
to micromanage every conjunctionthat you use and stuff like that.
You get what I'm saying?
But just this week I was, I wasshown an example and thinking that
assistant, they guard the, the, thehead doctor, like it's some big deal,
(25:02):
like we do things perfect and the.
Curtain pulled back.
We don't do everything perfect.
That's not the point.
You know, we're trying to grow this, thishuman, uh, associate to greatness and
it, it's gonna be a different copy than,uh, just like I'm different than Bruce.
I mean, I, I can't be Bruce.
I want to be like Bruce in ways, uh,Dr. Bruce, but Baird, but I, I don't
(25:26):
like, I can't do everything like him.
In fact, the nuanced ways that Ichange it is going to be better.
In my vocabulary, better in my hands, theway that I'll say it, because I'll see a
tooth and I'll go, that tooth is hosed.
In my area that works.
And other people, when I tell'em that, they're like, you
don't say that to the patient.
(25:47):
I go, sure I do.
I say, that tooth, you see on thescreen, that big black hole in the,
you're hosed that that tooth is hosed.
We gotta pull it.
And they'll be like,you, you tell 'em that?
And I'm like, yeah, just like that.
But for me and the culturethat I have, it's what works.
Right.
It's the soil that I've cultivated.
It's what works in my greenhouseas Devon and I were talking
(26:09):
about, you know, different soils,different outcomes, different
plants, you know, stuff like that.
So those are my deep thoughts byChad Johnson about the ever-changing
dynamic of associates and owners.
Thank you very much.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (26:22):
As much as we talk about sometimes being frustrated by our
teams and being resentful and accountof how they might not be grateful
for all the things that we provide.
It was when we had an associate thatreally wasn't panning out, that I
became very grateful for my team becausethat's when I really saw them doing
exactly what they were trained to do.
(26:44):
They were really able to pick out.
All the clinical calibration that we'dbeen doing for years and spot all the
ways that my associate really had adistance that she needed to travel.
Um.
Yeah, they had my back more than they hadhers, and that was probably not the way
(27:05):
that we needed to be going about things.
But, um, they, they really, theyreally knew what they were going,
what they were doing on every singlelevel, um, when it came to dealing
with her and overlooking what she wasdoing when I wasn't in the office.
And so that was really neat.
(27:25):
That was really neat to see.
Regan Robertson (27:28):
There's a, a push and a pull that I see when you bring in an
associate because the, the times that Ihave seen dentists personally interacted
with them that they are most stressed outis when they're bringing in an associate.
They brought in an associate andthen they can't fill the load.
So they've got this pressure toperform and to get the finances
flowing in the right directionand the revenue going in the right
(27:49):
direction to support this new hire.
I would love to know, Devin, when youbring in an associate, do you, um.
Account for that integration by way ofadjusting your schedule and adjusting your
team's schedule to get to know each other.
And just to give you context to that,the best analogy I can think of is
(28:10):
I have three super good girlfriends.
We have been.
Best friends for over a decade.
And so when we go on our girls' trips,we know each other intuitively so well.
So it reminds me of having like the bestassistant ever that knows what instruments
and what order and how everything flows.
You never have to think about it.
And there are times when we incorporateother girlfriends into our getaways and.
(28:33):
It's still fun, but itthrows everything off.
Like we don't know the idiosyncrasiesof this person over here.
We don't know how this person'sgonna communicate and meld together.
And we've talked about that quite a bit.
And I'm curious, how do youbring in an associate and do
you account for that time?
Because there is a, a really big polaritythat exists and a push and a pull between,
we gotta get this person up and running,so we gotta push the schedule and get
(28:55):
it all filled with how are we gonnabring in this person and help the team
adjust and account for that intangible.
Adjustment period where the emotionsare are sitting present and we're
trying to learn somebody new.
Dr. Devin Giron (29:08):
Right?
So I was very fortunate.
Didn't seem like at the time to get outtadental school and go associate associate
with somebody, um, ran outta school.
And that associateshipfailed, uh, um, and it failed.
Bad meaning I went in a little bitbefore Christmas, the doors were locked.
(29:28):
He changed the locks on me and.
And, um, which means you don't trustme or some, something to that degree.
I mean, it was bad.
You go in there and if you don't planfor an associate coming in and you
don't have marketing for them, youdon't have instruments for them, like
you're not thinking at all, you'rejust kinda like, oh, he's gonna go do
(29:49):
all dentistry I don't wanna do, whichis nothing because, um, I'm gonna give
'em one to two new patients a month.
That situation, um.
Worked good for me.
And the sub, the, our new Dr. Dr.Baly had the same thing happen to him.
Not only once, but twice.
Dr. Dietrich had that happen to him,and those are really good learning
(30:14):
experiences because you don't realize how.
Much that affects yourprofessional career later.
That set me back a while and that set Dr.
Passi back a while and thatset Dr. Dietrich back a while
because we lost confidence.
We were like, we're failures,we're, how can we work everybody
that doesn't work for us?
And I think, I think nowadaysit's probably even worse.
It's hard.
(30:34):
So when we bring someone on,
we take our time on making sureit's a the right person, b.
Is this person someoneyou wanna partner with?
'cause I'm gonna treat it like we'regonna get married from day one.
Also, the staff knows wehave meetings with staff.
(30:55):
'cause like, I don't know,I don't know this guy.
I'm like, do you think I would bringsomeone that in that you couldn't trust?
And she said, no, youalways look out for us.
And, and they're like, okay, if,if he's good for on your side, if
you trust him, we're gonna, we'regonna, you know, trust but verify.
But I also say he's gonnado things different than me.
(31:15):
He or she's gonna do thingsway different than me.
And that's okay.
There's lots of different ways toget from point A to point B, and,
um, he needs your help to do that.
If you can help him, help him, there'ssomething you see, let him know.
Like our egos aren't that you cantell the doctor, we're not gonna throw
things, we're not gonna yell at people.
That's, that's a cool,cool part of our practice.
(31:36):
Like, we're not, I'm like, oh, okay.
Like, thanks for telling me that.
About whatever Dr.
Dietrich does or whatever, different thanme, it's not taken as, as, as a threat.
So, um, we really try toget ahead of the objections.
We really try to get them to know himas a human being versus a dentist.
Um, 'cause it's, it's stressfulfor the guy, the new guy coming in.
(31:58):
Yeah, right.
It's a mess.
I mean, have you guys, I'm not sureif you guys ever associated it before.
It's stressful and, and everyone'sgoing to be, in my case, on my
side because I'm the og, right?
Mm, mm-hmm.
Before anybody else, and I try tomake sure that that's minimized.
I know they will always have that bias.
Regan Robertson (32:18):
Mm-hmm.
Well, you've built that trust too.
I mean, you're,
Dr. Devin Giron (32:22):
you've built the trust.
Correct, but there's always thatlike, give him the benefit of
the doubt that that wasn't theintention of whatever you thought
he or she was thinking about doing.
Or have you talked to him like, 'causewe all have different perspectives on
different, different ways of doing things.
And so like it's, um, a lot of timesthey try to paint his black and white,
(32:44):
the staff and it's not necessarily.
That, and you gotta kind of be theperson that's going to say like,
no, no, you, you can do it there.
That's okay.
It becomes different than, okay.
There was an example likethat with my associate.
My assistant comes and says, Hey,you know how when someone, um, needs
pain medicine, you write 'em likean 800, uh, milligram ibuprofen.
Uh, the associate was, uh, wasgiven a 600 milligram ibuprofen.
(33:08):
Can you believe it?
That's not what we do.
And I was like.
And I said, you know, that'sactually not a bad idea.
And she was blown away because I was like.
I think that's, that's smart.
I just keep things simple.
I just go, here's your eight hundreds.
But like he wanted to add a littlebit of sophistication to it.
I said, that's actually, that's superokay and wise, and she was blown
(33:31):
away that I'm gonna agree with him.
But you know what?
I think it was also importantthat I did that because if
I said, are you kidding me?
What we do is.
800 milligrams and you can,and it can never change.
It's just pre-med.
Pre-med protocols never change, you know,
I think we're, I don't get it in dentistry, we're all so
insecure about stupid stuff, and I, I,it's like you guys, you, you could have
(33:53):
seriously argue about 600 versus 800,like for a whole dentist that will Yeah.
There'd be a wholeconference to argue about it.
Yes.
Yeah.
And I'm like, dude, like, who cares?
Dentist, dude's just a tooth.
Like yeah.
I mean, you know what I mean?
Like,
I,
I do,
I do.
You wanna argue about it?
No.
I'm, I'm totally agreeing with you.
Will you not Let me agree with you.
(34:14):
Stop agreeing with me.
Maybe I won't.
Regan Robertson (34:18):
Devin, what did you do to go from Wednesday to Friday?
Why did you choose not towalk out of the practice?
What stopped you and changed thedirector, the trajectory of, of your week?
What, what kept it in check for you?
Include love of the team.
Go.
Dr. Devin Giron (34:40):
Say Stop it.
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The um, yeah, the, I knew if Iwalked out, I remember this actually.
So fifth grade, this attorneywas teaching us how to become,
uh, attorneys at fifth grade.
Everyone's like, I don'teven know how to, like, like
Regan Robertson (34:58):
fifth grade elementary school.
Dr. Devin Giron (35:00):
Yes.
Fascinating.
Dr. Mr. Howard was his, hewas fresh outta law school.
Okay.
And my teacher thought it was a brightidea to bring an attorney to teach us
about, I don't know, attorney stuff.
And so he, he was having to spelllike, weird, I forgot what it was.
Like some stupid thing and there noone will pious a hundred percent.
(35:22):
I guarantee you.
We all have these stupid things.
He would come like once a month,like it was on no one's radar.
And I still remember that asshole.
Some guy couldn't, not Reagan,he was realizing the kids were
not engaged with his bullshit.
Why?
Because we're in fifth grade.
Like come to a level like let's,let's, that's like you're an adult.
Like come to a level.
(35:42):
And I still remember it.
He got his briefcase, walked out.
Got in his old beat up Ford 'cause hecouldn't afford a nice car and drove off.
And I was like, oh shit.
Like he left the classroom.
He left the fifth graders.
Yeah.
And uh, to have hislittle baby cry moment.
(36:03):
And I was all like, if I do that, like,and he had like a, a ponytail, you
know, they bring it back when you'rethinning and the ponytail and all that.
It just didn't look good.
His cowboy hat.
And, uh, yeah.
And no one liked him.
No one liked him after that for sure,because he had handed Oh, so he came back.
(36:24):
Yeah, he had to come back.
He had to come back.
He had to come back anddeal with the kids now.
And now we actually didn't like himlike a hundred percent 'cause we knew
he'd abandoned us if it didn't makethe point he was trying to make, which
was like, you guys need to study up.
You guys are wasting my time.
Like quit wasting my time.
I could be fighting the legal worldsomewhere in some corporate conglomerate.
(36:46):
Who knows, and it backfired.
And so that never works like that, do you?
No.
No one wants when stuff's going bad.
No one wants their leader togo like, screw this, I'm out.
It's not gonna prove a point.
It's just gonna give you a pity party.
And, um, yeah, the rest of theweek they've been doing good.
We did send out a newsletter with a spelltypo today, but hey, that's all right.
(37:08):
Like, okay, like that'sjust capping the week off.
But no, they're seeingseven emergencies today.
I'm like, sweet, good for you guys.
Keep crushing.
So the weeks, and I told, I told theboys, they say, boys finish week.
Good.
Had a crappy week.
Get together, finish strong, let's go.
And they're having a good week.
Other than we did have a patient thatwe tried to buy a hotel room for, 'cause
(37:30):
she was doing, she's a news anchor andshe was getting her top teeth done by.
Dr. Dietrich on a Thursdaygot a really nice hotel.
Apparently we didn't, so we havea lady drugged up going through
Santa Fe with no hotel room.
Oh no.
So it's like, that was Thursday.
No, that was Wednesday.
That kept Wednesday out.
But no, the week, but it's, it goes onwe that next week to do better, but I
(37:55):
shouldn't, good thing I didn't walk outbecause I got my production from like,
I don't even know, a thousand bucks to10,000 bucks if I would've walked out.
I would've lost out on $9,000.
My team would've beenlost confidence in me.
And yeah, I wouldn't havebeen productive that day.
Regan Robertson (38:12):
So, so this is a hot topic you're giving listeners.
Um, an incredible, really powerfullesson that shouldn't be, should not
be overlooked because great leadersdon't turn their back even when it is
really hard saying, it sounds so flat.
Um.
Have any you, none of you probably.
Listen, listeners tell me, haveyou, has any of you watched the
Mcbe Dynasty reality series?
(38:35):
Not even a never heard.
It'll be on your guys' radar someday.
It is like a Yellowstone cattleranching farm outta Missouri.
Long story short, it's, it's huge.
It's all about this big rancherwho wants to get a hundred million
dollar VC deal, uh, to, to expand.
And he also has a host ofcar washes and coffee shops.
And long story short, my TLDR is he.
(38:58):
Not only did he go under FBI investigationand he's awaiting sentencing now
for a crop insurance fraud, but he,uh, lost the VC deal and, and left.
He put his sons in charge of theentire ranch, but he just bounced.
And it has been a hot topic inmy household this week because we
have talked about leadership andwhen you have to show up is when
(39:20):
you often feel the absolute worst.
It is a hard moment.
I think all of us have had that momentwhere we just wanna throw up our hands
and walk away and, and you really, theopposite is, is sticking it through.
And then to contrast.
Devin, you received a five starreview every single day this week.
(39:40):
And I think that that's an insanetestament to what your handle on the
other side and how the, you know, whatit means to be high performing, but
also how you are obviously bufferingsome of the experience that's going
on and, and, um, your team andyourself and your doctors are, are
still delivering really great service.
So, um, yeah, few achesprobably got broken.
(40:03):
I just, I don't know if you look at yourreviews, I just googled your reviews,
but I'm just like, wow, what a contrast.
The reality is such a contrast.
Um, you can still do great, still have areally crappy week and wanna walk away.
And I'm just, I think that's amazingthat you had an anchor story from fifth
grade, one of your developmental years,and we learned from great mentors and
(40:25):
we also learned from train wrecks.
And the lawyer was a triple train wreckthat you've never forgotten about.
And you said, I don't wanna be that guy.
And I bet you even, you know, pictured,like you said, his crappy car.
Dr. Devin Giron (40:35):
Well, it's up here.
It's up here.
Regan Robertson (40:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that stopped you and then, youknow, so two days later, do you feel
like it's getting a little better now?
Do you feel like, okay, I've,I've gone past the hurdle and,
Dr. Devin Giron (40:48):
yeah.
No, a hundred percent no.
That's just you're, when youkeep going, Monday sucks.
Tuesday sucks, Wednesday sucks.
And you pull it out every day.
You're still upset that you had to gothrough that crap, but one day or two
days removed, it's like, oh, okay, cool.
I'm good.
I'm energized and we're ready to go.
That's why productive dentistry is cool.
'cause I'm not doing it five days a week.
(41:08):
I'm doing it three days a week.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Hopefully two days.
Yeah.
Regan Robertson (41:12):
We didn't even get into your schedule that
you're doing three days a week.
Dr. Devin Giron (41:15):
Yeah, no, three days a week.
So I've been doing that for,I don't even know, two, three.
Yeah.
I'm not sure how long, but it's,it's something that, um, it gives
you a little bit of time away fromthe office because I used to work
five days a week and that was, itseems like you don't even get a week.
I don't know how dentists do that beingthat we deal in a stressful environment.
So, um.
(41:35):
No, it's, I'm, I'm already ready to go.
I could go in today if I really wanted to.
Just having that day off wasenough to recharge the batteries.
Mm-hmm.
Does that make sense?
Regan Robertson (41:45):
It does.
I, I have one last question.
Good.
Dr. Devin Giron (41:48):
Bruces there.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes sense.
Regan Robertson (41:52):
What, what is one thing you're gonna do maybe differently
or, or prepare for next week?
Dr. Devin Giron (42:02):
Well, we have a meeting next week, half the day, eight.
So that's what we do on once a month.
We'll shut down the office halfthe day and have a meeting.
So
for that, um,
I don't know what I'mgonna do differently.
Reagan, we do the same thing all the time.
So we have stress tests likethis, we're prepared for it.
(42:23):
So I'm not sure we're gonna do anythingdifferently, um, because we're always, um.
Preparing for things like thisso that things like this don't
happen, but when they do happen,we're kind of ready for it.
So I'm not sure if we're gonna doanything different or I'm a pessimist,
I'm always preparing for stupid stuff.
Yes, you are.
(42:43):
I'm sorry.
Sorry.
And so I'm always like,oh, I gotta get this ready.
I don't wanna run outta money.
I don't want, and it's like they're noteven real like fears, but they scare me.
I'm afraid of everything.
Dr. Cha (42:56):
Risk.
I have an idea, Reagan, and it goesback to it, uh, like if you have
your core values, then have yourteam come up with examples of how the
team shows up for each core value.
And that is when Joanne, my coach,helped draft are code of ethics, same
key words, but then with descriptionsunderneath of what that means.
(43:20):
To be that core value because whenleft to it being nice is a core value
that it sounds great, but it's like,okay, what's an example of that?
Dr. Devin Giron (43:30):
The chance.
Shut up, dude.
I can't.
You're welcome.
Goodbye.
I love you, dude.
I can't do you Don anymore, man.
Go.
Go ahead, Reagan.
Regan Robertson (43:37):
I recommend we have Devon.
This has been a riveting hour, by the way,listeners, I hope you got a lot from this.
Uh, I propose we have Devon on again.
I wanna hear more about this stresstest and uh, and I know that it works,
so I wanna know more about these about.
Your, your half day meetings thatyou have and, and what you put into
place so that, that, you know, theliving, breathing relationships
(43:58):
keep up to your high standard.
Devin, thank you for being on our podcast.
It's been great.
Thanks,
buddy.
Dr. Devin Giron (44:05):
I want your code of ethics on my desk by Friday.
Chad, I've already tried those.
Dude, they don't work.
Dude.
I've just like, I can't, I can't.
I've done I Awesome.
I'm coming down.
I'm coming down to Albuquerque to youguys, just so, oh, I'm just doing that.
Just, did you stop recording it?
No.
You did?
No.
What do you wanna say?
Stop recording it.
Why?
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome toEveryday Practices Dental podcast
with my two co-hosts ReaganRobertson and Dr. Maggie Augustine.
Today we have a special guest, a long timebuddy, Dr. Devin Hiro from New Mexico.
Regan Robertson (00:19):
Listeners, listeners,
yes.
Thanks for joining.
Be listeners,
go
to, happy to be here.
Go to right away.
You can do two things.
You can listen to this podcast and youcan pull up Devin's website right now.
Go to vida vda dental sf.com.
Yes, it can give you agreat visual right away.
Color, psychology and tech for thepassion this doctor brings to Santa Fe.
(00:42):
13th generation, I think,uh, New Mexico, um, person.
Uh, it's, he's, he's, he embodiesproductivity and, um, also a lot of soul.
So, uh, Chad invited, uh, Dr. Devon to beon our podcast, and I just wanted to wrap
us around a controlling idea, Chad, here.
Uh, because, because we are, ourlisteners need to, they need to
(01:03):
get right to the point, right?
They
need content.
We're,
let's do this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and we are here to discuss whathappens when you have a not so great week.
A lot of us like to put ourbest face forward, right?
Our curated pictures and ourwonderful Instagram posts.
And isn't that so nice?
And the reality is some weeksare anything but that at all.
(01:24):
And we're ready to throweverything out the window.
So we were trying to figure out, you know,what type of expertise we can bring in.
Thought we go.
I thought we go that directiontoday, Devin, welcome.
Because
listeners listen normallyDevon is killing it.
Devon is killing it and I'm proud of him.
Yeah, listen you yeah, you are.
And, and your website will show ityour, your, your photos that you
(01:45):
po post on social media, Instagram,you know, like all that stuff.
You, you do pretty stuff.
You do good work.
Um, and you would be fun to work for.
You would be fun to work with.
Uh, you would be a greatdoctor to, to visit.
Like you're just, I, I think the worldof you and I appreciate you coming
on, but tell us about this week.
Dr. Devin Giron (02:07):
What the week from hell?
Yes.
It's been, it's, yeah, it's been brew for a while now
and uh, basically Monday come in.
Production's not the goal, right?
So I'm stressed out.
We all know how that is.
We, we have a goal we wanna meet,especially as productive dentist.
Academy graduates, whatever youwanna call it, we all have a goal
(02:29):
and we all wanna hit that goal.
And when we don't hit that goal, sometimesit's good, but then when you look at
your week and you're like, I'm not agoal Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and you
look at the next week and you're like,oh wow, it's even worse the next week.
Mm-hmm.
Your level of stress goes up and whenyou're trying to bring on a new associate
and you're like, I need to feed him stuff.
(02:51):
Mm-hmm.
Then there, or becauseYeah, a hundred percent.
I gotta feed this guy.
So you eat last as the guyat the top 'cause because you
wanna see him or her succeed.
And so at any rate, getting the daysup, it seemed, usually my team is
ready to work for it and we're justall rowing in the same direction.
(03:13):
But for some odd reason, it just seemedlike every single time we would get
green gain traction on something.
We would just take five steps.
The other direction stuff wouldfall off the schedule stuff.
Patients were yelling at us like,why don't you know what you're doing?
Um, we had 10 patients show upyesterday that thought they had
an appointment, but they didn'tbecause of our glitch software.
(03:35):
Um, we had.
Front office people, not there.
It's someone, her, their, their fatherpassed away and then get coverage.
And so, um, yeah, come in, there'strash piled up all over my deck,
like probably 10 bags of trashbecause no one took the trash out.
And, um.
Yeah, just a bunch of shit.
(03:55):
Sorry.
We can cuss in this podcast, right?
Regan Robertson (03:58):
Yes.
It was a rotten no good terribleweek is what it sounds like.
Like
Dr. Devin Giron (04:01):
one, yeah.
It was bad.
We made it work, but I mean, it just,it's just, uh, I mean, as I mentioned
to you guys before, I wanted towalk out on Wednesday and I, yeah, I
really wanna walk out and I knew ifI walked out, I was like, what are
you, I like, you're just a big baby.
Like, what are you gonna, what,what's that gonna prove You?
Just abandon your team.
Well,
Regan Robertson (04:20):
when you say walk out, Devin, what do you mean?
Like, like just like put downthe handpiece and be like, I'm
out for the rest of this week.
I'm gonna go.
Dr. Devin Giron (04:26):
Yeah, I was gonna say I was gonna, I was gonna be like,
you guys cancel this day after this.
I'm done.
This is crap.
This has been a crap week.
I'm done.
Like, we're done.
This is, I don't need thisexercise of crap anymore.
I've had it up to here.
I wanna be a big baby, cry andfeel bad for myself and, um, I
(04:47):
just wanna go home and not be atthe office, be around and put in
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (04:51):
perspective.
How many times have you wantedto do that in your career?
Dr. Devin Giron (04:55):
Uh, I think I lied before in terms of this, like, I'm sure
I'm, I have a bad memory, but I canremember probably three times from alone.
Like, this is not the firsttime, this is the daily thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This was, I remember the first time, uh.
This is when I signed up for PDA.
So I was like, I can't do this.
(05:16):
Like, I'm not, this isn't cut out for me.
And uh, as I mentioned, I went to a,uh, that was a dark spot, but luckily
I had PDA helped me out through that.
And then probably somewhere betweenbetween there I wanted to walk out.
And then this last.
It's last Wednesdaywhere they took the cake.
Regan Robertson (05:33):
Do you, I'm curious, do you like audibly
communicate that to your team?
When I'm having, I've had no good,terrible, really just crappy weeks
before, and it does, it feelslike it builds on itself too.
Like one thing happens andI can mentally take it.
Another thing happens.
I've still got the fortitude there andit starts to pile up, and then I am
losing my executive ability to navigate.
(05:54):
Quick decisions and things like that,that really would keep us moving forward.
And it just gets frustrating.
And so my team will tell you thatI will say, I am not functioning at
capacity or I am not acting, um, likethe leader that I wanna act right now.
And I want you to be aware of that.
If we're on a one-on-one or a teamgroup meeting, like this is where my
mentality is at because I don't wannalead as a leader, it ripples off.
(06:15):
They're going to emulate what youput out into the universe and that.
Makes me really mad, Devin.
I get really mad when I losecontrol of my emotions and I
allow those things to pile up.
And, um, and so that has been my, uh, forbetter or worse, I guess, communication
tactic of being like, here's where I'm at.
I don't know how to deal with this.
Instead of, because thealternative is throwing up my
(06:38):
hands and being like, I'm out.
I'm out for a week.
I gotta like, you know, letmy brain rest and cool down.
So Wednesday for you was, I guess, your.
Your hottest moment, you know, of, of the,the week, what happened in that moment and
how did you, how did you work through it?
Was it the dentistry, was it the people?
(06:59):
Like was it all of it?
Like, what was Yeah, what was going on?
Dr. Devin Giron (07:03):
It was all of it.
I mean, if we can't, can't when, whenI'm listening to phone calls on the
phone and you always want to think like,that's probably the number one thing
that's gonna bring people to your office.
And the thing thatreally pissed me off was.
Someone called the office and said,Hey, my, my grandson's coming from outta
town and I'd already listened to like,probably 10 calls the previous day.
(07:24):
And this day my grandson'scoming is coming from outta town.
He lost a bracket for his braces.
Uh, do you do that type of work?
And we don't, we don't do that.
But instead of saying, you know what,um, unfortunately we don't take care
of that here, but here are threeother providers that we refer to that
would be more than happy to help you.
(07:45):
We don't do that.
Dr. Cha (07:46):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Devin Giron (07:48):
And I was like, it hurt because I'll talk to people for an hour
and I know they're not gonna do treatment.
I'm like, you might not be here,we might not be for you, and that's
totally fine, but this is what I doif I were you and I just want to help
you get to where you need to get to.
And you would think that if you do that,other people would want to emulate that.
(08:13):
But when we do that, it's just are it's a reflection of, I don't
know, I don't know what it is.
Whether it's you at the top,they're not seeing that.
I mean, 'cause people listenwith their eyes, right?
Mm-hmm.
They see what you're doing andthey hopefully you would think,
want to do some capacity of that.
And so when you hear that and you hearit 10 times the day before, or not
(08:33):
necessarily that, but things boiling downto not wanting to help people because
they're not worth X amount of dollars.
That is not good for patient care.
Does that make sense?
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (08:49):
Yeah.
So what you, you saw is the visionthat you have for your practice, which
is essentially being a compassionatehuman being and not being driven
necessarily by profit, but by care.
Yes.
And compassionate care for a fellowhuman being was not being replicated
by the people that were standingthere welcoming patients with you.
(09:11):
And then that ended up just draggingyou down with an air of maybe resentment
when you came back to your office.
And that kind of affected what you startedseeing, having heard those phone calls?
Dr. Devin Giron (09:26):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
No, it just, just magnifiedeverything you were feeling, right?
Just like, oh, great, like I'm a fit.
There's
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (09:33):
no point to what I'm doing because nobody's
seeing it or emulating it.
This is no longer my office.
Dr. Devin Giron (09:39):
Right, and that's where it's, and those are things that
most dentists don't ever know aboutbecause they're not on the phones.
Usually when my schedule slows down, Iactually get, I'm like, what do I do?
Do I surf dental town?
Do I go read a book?
What do I do?
Do I go on YouTube?
Right?
And then when I get like,alright, what's going on?
(10:00):
And you know, what's, what's going on?
Like, I'll go listen to the phonecalls and then I'll get really upset.
And then we'll have people in the olike, bring that person in the office.
We need to talk about this.
And it's always, um, it's alwaysdisheartening because, um, you can
spend a lot of money on consulting,training and, um, getting your team, uh,
(10:24):
coaches at PDA to guide the staff, butit's up to the staff to implement that.
Yeah.
And sadly, I don't listen tothe phone calls enough to say,
Hey, you did a great job there.
All they see is the hey, likewhen I actually go through those
sometimes it's like, this is whatyou did bad, so that's my fault.
(10:45):
Like, Hey dude, like they're really goodat converting patients, but like sometimes
when you're having a bad day, then you'relike, all right, let's make it worse.
Let's go listen to phone calls.
Let see what's going on.
It's just too much.
Regan Robertson (10:56):
Has, has your staff been with you for a really long time?
Like through the differentiterations of, um, consulting
and, and training and, okay.
Okay.
So they, so it's something thatthey should inherently know it,
because what really it comes downto, it's a, it's a core value.
Violation, you know, in your heartwith the, the care aspect of it,
(11:17):
not being proactive that way, um,and then not translating it over.
So I'm just trying to be like, inyour head right now, when you listened
to that, was it like, come on guys,like we know to do this, but for
whatever reason you're not doing it.
Dr. Devin Giron (11:30):
I, yes.
So that's something I can.
Figure out.
Mm-hmm.
And I've never beenable to figure that out.
And we do exceptionallywell with what we have.
Dr. Cha (11:44):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Devin Giron (11:46):
But it does come with a lot of stress that
hangs over the leadership at thetop because it's just too much.
You're like, you, youdon't wanna be like, what?
Are you stupid?
Are you trying to hurt me?
Like what?
Like you can't do that.
That's not.
That wouldn't ever work.
You want to shake people andbe like, what don't you get?
(12:07):
Like we, you want a script?
I don't want to use a script.
Okay, let's practice this, andyou practice it, and then you hope
that something translates intomomentum, which clearly it does.
The practice we run is avery well run practice.
I just feel like we're alwaysrunning at 30% of where we
could be if we cared about.
(12:30):
Each other in a way that, uh,we should as human beings, but
it's do you hire this person?
Do you find them?
Where is this unicorn?
Or do you just kind of meet 'em wherethey're at and try to get them 20% better?
You crying Chad?
Yeah, it's, it made me crying.
Tear up.
This is just.
I know.
Are you for real crying?
(12:51):
No, I'm sorry.
Dr. Cha (12:53):
I just,
he and I play like deadpan, so sorry.
Yeah.
I, listeners, I had to wipe my eyes.
Okay.
And Devin's like, why aren't you crying?
I got full attention to me.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (13:02):
Can I?
Your voice is shaking a little too.
Yeah,
a hundred percent baby could tear up.
Okay.
You.
Regan Robertson (13:09):
I, I, I, I wanna put this into perspective, uh, especially
for you listening right now, and asto the kind of doctor that Devin is.
Obviously the care comes throughreally loud and clear, but this,
I mean, your office, this issomething you truly do work out.
This is a real high level.
Problem that I think is affecting everysingle practice to a certain extent.
(13:31):
But you don't get to over 1,005 starreviews, which is what you have right now.
And the one that justcame in 17 hours ago.
Do you mind if I read it, Devin?
Dr. Devin Giron (13:41):
Yeah, go ahead.
Regan Robertson (13:42):
Uh, okay.
It's from Jim and Jimsays five star rating.
Vita Dental Studio is the finest dentalfacility I have ever experienced, and
I have lived in New York City, la, SanFrancisco, Miami, and Hong Kong doctors.
Hi and Dietrich.
Get my highest rating aswell as all the staff.
If you live in Northern New Mexico,I urge you to check Vita out.
(14:02):
You'll be glad you did.
Wow.
Great.
And that was 17 hours ago on the back of one of the
crappiest weeks that you've had.
Right?
Right.
And I just wanted to translate toyou, this is how deep you care.
Um, and the things that, that aremaking you upset is because you are,
your purpose is, is much deeper than.
(14:24):
The dentist, the, thedentistry that you provide, um,
Dr. Devin Giron (14:27):
right.
Where
Regan Robertson (14:28):
does that come from?
It's the relationships.
Dr. Devin Giron (14:30):
Yeah.
No, it's the relationshipswith your staff.
Right.
And I know you're supposed to have a, likea be friendly but not friends, but I've
violated that a darn bill, same me times.
And, um.
I know Dr. Dietrich's a little bitmore professional than than me.
He keeps that barrier there.
And I respect that because people whohave boundaries, I like, I respect that.
(14:51):
Mm-hmm.
Sometimes my boundaries like blurand it's can be a really good
thing, but also a really bad thing.
And so, um, these are people that, that Ilove and you just wanna see him do good,
just like you wanna see anyone do well.
Right.
And sometimes when they, when they screwup or they drop the ball just because of.
(15:12):
I don't know, carelessness and lazinesssometimes 'cause they just didn't
wanna do it or take the time to do it.
It's more of a personal sting becauseit's like, I've always told him, I
tell him this about Dr. Dietrich.
I'm like, you guys have theopportunity to be around Dr. Dietrich.
And he says a lot of things that otherdentists don't say and other human
beings don't say, oh, he's very goodwith, uh, verbiage and just how he
(15:36):
deals with, uh, certain situations.
He can diffuse a situation.
Very good.
I'm like, it's an opportunity to,to be around someone like that.
Dennis paid to be around someonelike that and um, to them they just
see him as another human being.
I'm assuming it's the same thingwith, with you guys and your staff or
or staff members around Bruce Baird.
(15:56):
It was just kinda like he is what he is.
So what, like he's nothing special.
He is just, and I think sometimesas staff members or even myself, we
take that for granted and I thinkthat's what kind of makes me upset.
'cause I would've loved tohave a mentor like that.
Um, in my life early on.
Does that make sense?
And I always gravitate towardthose people, but I really had
(16:17):
to work to get that knowledge.
It just wasn't, uh, in myfamily or, or around me.
Does that make any sensewhat I'm trying to say?
Mm-hmm.
It does.
You, you, yeah.
You, you are the people yousurround yourself around with, and
sometimes you have to seek thosepeople out when you have those
people around you every single day.
Dr. Dietrich, Dr. Posade.
(16:38):
Dr. Maggie, Dr. Chad here.
It's like, um, sometimes those peopledon't realize how special that that is.
Does that make any sense?
Regan Robertson (16:46):
It absolutely.
I mean, relationshipsare living, breathing.
Entities and, and I think you'reright, Devin, we, we aren't human.
If we, if, if we don't think about, youknow, are we gonna blur the lines or how
do we, how do we manage our professionalrelationship and, and use our heart
in a way that's, that's appropriate.
And I think every.
(17:07):
Business owners struggleswith that to an extent.
And some strategies around thatare, are walling it off completely.
Um, you know, some can, can put upboundaries that are really healthy.
Like, it sounds like, um, Galen can,can keep healthy boundaries in place.
And some of us, we just, we caredeeply and we, we don't, we haven't
always had that reflected to us either,like you said, like having proper
mentors to show us and model that.
(17:28):
Um, I've done a couple of podcastepisodes with Chad where, um, I, I've.
Talked about, um, having healthy conflictand what that can look and feel like.
And if it's not modeled to you,you just don't know what to do.
Um, and Maggie and Chad, it sounds like,uh, with you guys shaking your head that
it's a similar or nodding in agreeance,it's a similar scenario for you where
(17:49):
you can have a bad week and, and the teamisn't performing to the core values that
you thought were really crystal clear.
And I'm, I'm just curious.
From each of you, all three of you, whatdifferent things you've tried because
Devin, you said, I don't really have ananswer for that and I don't know how to
to correct it, that that will go maybepredictable or sustainable for the future.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (18:15):
What's really interesting is that we, uh, we have a
group of friends that we are in, and wehave voiced very similar issues recently.
This is something that wetalk about almost daily.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
The exact same thing.
It's, it's spinning plates.
Mm-hmm.
You, you, if you can manage spinningfour or 10 plates, I don't know what
(18:39):
the world record is, 30, you know, likethere's a, there's a, um, you ha but
entropy is going to slow those down.
And people quit and people,you know, like move.
And then you've got new people andthen, you know, you've got old people
that go, you know, like they revertback and then sadly you revert back.
(18:59):
You know, like you, you have timeswhen you regress on what you do
well, and if someone called youout on it and they were like.
Hey, have you not been on your A game?
You, it'd be like, ouch.
That kind of hurts.
But you're, you're, you're right.
I mean, I haven't been doing thediagnostic discussion that I should
have with the patients, or, no, wehaven't revisited our core values and
(19:22):
gone through explanations of what thoseare, which the PDA team did internally.
You guys did that, and youcame up with, uh, your, um.
What was that called?
You took all the core values and thenyou wrote up a contract of sorts.
What was that?
Regan,
Regan Robertson (19:39):
your key characteristics and your daily actions.
Yes.
And, and you guys said, okay, here'sexamples under the core values mm-hmm.
Of, of who we are and, andexamples of what those are.
Yeah.
And, and, and the team writes that andthen, and then they're evaluated on those.
And lately, because it, that's still.
(19:59):
It doesn't, it, you could be anOlympic, you know, team, dental team.
You could be an Olympic ratedental team, but you're still gonna
have entropy working against you.
Inertia, you know, is helping pull youforward, but then the entropy is slowing
you down and, and pulling you back.
You have to reengage that andit's, it's never going to be done.
(20:21):
It would be like saying,Hey, our kitchen is full.
And it's like, yeah, for now, butgive it a week, give it a month.
It's just like, youalways have to stock that.
You always have to keepon watering the grass.
You keep on having, you know, likeeverything just, Rene needs renewed, like.
Do you think, do you think that, um, especially as high
performers, so Devin, I'll ask you, doyou, do you think as a high performer,
(20:45):
when you see, when you handle phone,when you're listening to phone calls
like that, are you concerned that it'sa habit or it's going to become a habit?
And that is where that upset lies.
Like, this isn't an outlier or an off day.
This could be something that is systemic.
Dr. Devin Giron (21:06):
I don't know.
I mean, the fish rots from thehead down, so I don't think
it's necessarily systemic.
Mm-hmm.
From the guys on top.
I remember I was talking to this dentist,his name's Dr. Ling, he's in Montreal.
He had a, I think like a 30or something ridiculous, like
20 dentists in this practice.
His father created thislegacy practice and um.
(21:29):
I, I was just getting into privatepractice and I was like, all right,
tell me about the systems you have.
Yeah.
And he's like, there are no systems.
I was like, you're an idiot.
Like, like, really?
Like quit, quit screwing around with me.
Like, tell me what the systems are.
And he's like, we don't have systems.
People have to want to do their jobbecause they want to do their job well.
(21:51):
They have to want to do it, and it'snot something you can force upon them.
So, um.
For us, when I see a breakdown in notentering the phone, right, it's uh,
usually a symptom of something else.
Like, what's going on?
Are you stressed out here?
Are we pushing you too hard?
What is it like, tell me where you are at.
Is it a home life thing?
Like where, what, uh.
(22:13):
I know you and I know thatyou think this is subpar.
So how do we get whatever's causingthe problem or the stress out of that
funk to get you moving in the rightdirection so that you don't cost me
thousands of dollars on the phone?
Am it costing me, costing you potentialbonuses and raises and costing Dr.
Dietrich and his livelihood and Dr.Greg, we just bought on his livelihood,
(22:35):
like we're all affected by this, right?
So what's this like where,where is the breakdown?
You having a bad.
Like something going on in yourpersonal, like it's a, like, it's
usually a syndrome of something else.
Do you see,
Regan Robertson (22:48):
oh, sorry to cut you off.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Do, do you see a correlation sinceall three of you have associates or
have had associates, um, do you see acorrelation in bringing in an associate
and then the disruption with the teamthat that lowers typical performance?
Yes.
I've seen that anyway, in thedentist that I've, you know,
interacted with over the years.
Just
this week I had a patient that,um, came in and she says, Hey, you
(23:12):
know, look at this tooth right here.
Your last dentist, um, was gettingupset 'cause the assistant was
saying that he, he, you know, heneeded to do something different.
And then he got mad and he left the room.
And this is the first I'm hearingabout it, but I'm thinking.
It's not the only time I heard aboutit when one of my assistants would
(23:35):
be like, well, Chad does it this way.
And, and naturally if Chad does itthat way, it's gotta be the best way.
And so, you know, my associate was tryingto do his own thing and he'd come to
me and be like, dude, like I get that.
I don't do everything to exactly howyou do it, but like, is that a problem?
And I was just like, no.
As long as it's.
Done to standard.
I don't care if you use one instrumentand then the other, or the other,
(23:57):
then the other and or whatever,you know, and stuff like that.
Like I don't wanna micromanage,you know, every instrument you're
handed off and as an example.
And uh, and, but it was funny, thepatient's perception, you know,
he got up and left 'cause he and Ijust don't think it was done right.
And it's just kind of funny'cause it's just like, well that's
drawing a lot of conclusions.
Right.
(24:17):
But she was aware of.
The weirdness of my assistant, who'salmost, it's, it's cool that she was, you
know, standing up for me and you know,like, this is how we do it around here.
But I'm just also going, I mean,we, I don't need him to be a robot.
Carbon copy of me.
He can be his own person.
And, and you know, like there aretimes when it's like, yeah, the
(24:40):
way I do it is pretty darn good.
Copy that.
But at the same time, if someone says,well, I don't like saying the, the word.
It is.
I like saying it's, it's like,well then say it's, I don't need
to micromanage every conjunctionthat you use and stuff like that.
You get what I'm saying?
But just this week I was, I wasshown an example and thinking that
assistant, they guard the, the, thehead doctor, like it's some big deal,
(25:02):
like we do things perfect and the.
Curtain pulled back.
We don't do everything perfect.
That's not the point.
You know, we're trying to grow this, thishuman, uh, associate to greatness and
it, it's gonna be a different copy than,uh, just like I'm different than Bruce.
I mean, I, I can't be Bruce.
I want to be like Bruce in ways, uh,Dr. Bruce, but Baird, but I, I don't
(25:26):
like, I can't do everything like him.
In fact, the nuanced ways that Ichange it is going to be better.
In my vocabulary, better in my hands, theway that I'll say it, because I'll see a
tooth and I'll go, that tooth is hosed.
In my area that works.
And other people, when I tell'em that, they're like, you
don't say that to the patient.
(25:47):
I go, sure I do.
I say, that tooth, you see on thescreen, that big black hole in the,
you're hosed that that tooth is hosed.
We gotta pull it.
And they'll be like,you, you tell 'em that?
And I'm like, yeah, just like that.
But for me and the culturethat I have, it's what works.
Right.
It's the soil that I've cultivated.
It's what works in my greenhouseas Devon and I were talking
(26:09):
about, you know, different soils,different outcomes, different
plants, you know, stuff like that.
So those are my deep thoughts byChad Johnson about the ever-changing
dynamic of associates and owners.
Thank you very much.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (26:22):
As much as we talk about sometimes being frustrated by our
teams and being resentful and accountof how they might not be grateful
for all the things that we provide.
It was when we had an associate thatreally wasn't panning out, that I
became very grateful for my team becausethat's when I really saw them doing
exactly what they were trained to do.
(26:44):
They were really able to pick out.
All the clinical calibration that we'dbeen doing for years and spot all the
ways that my associate really had adistance that she needed to travel.
Um.
Yeah, they had my back more than they hadhers, and that was probably not the way
(27:05):
that we needed to be going about things.
But, um, they, they really, theyreally knew what they were going,
what they were doing on every singlelevel, um, when it came to dealing
with her and overlooking what she wasdoing when I wasn't in the office.
And so that was really neat.
(27:25):
That was really neat to see.
Regan Robertson (27:28):
There's a, a push and a pull that I see when you bring in an
associate because the, the times that Ihave seen dentists personally interacted
with them that they are most stressed outis when they're bringing in an associate.
They brought in an associate andthen they can't fill the load.
So they've got this pressure toperform and to get the finances
flowing in the right directionand the revenue going in the right
(27:49):
direction to support this new hire.
I would love to know, Devin, when youbring in an associate, do you, um.
Account for that integration by way ofadjusting your schedule and adjusting your
team's schedule to get to know each other.
And just to give you context to that,the best analogy I can think of is
(28:10):
I have three super good girlfriends.
We have been.
Best friends for over a decade.
And so when we go on our girls' trips,we know each other intuitively so well.
So it reminds me of having like the bestassistant ever that knows what instruments
and what order and how everything flows.
You never have to think about it.
And there are times when we incorporateother girlfriends into our getaways and.
(28:33):
It's still fun, but itthrows everything off.
Like we don't know the idiosyncrasiesof this person over here.
We don't know how this person'sgonna communicate and meld together.
And we've talked about that quite a bit.
And I'm curious, how do youbring in an associate and do
you account for that time?
Because there is a, a really big polaritythat exists and a push and a pull between,
we gotta get this person up and running,so we gotta push the schedule and get
(28:55):
it all filled with how are we gonnabring in this person and help the team
adjust and account for that intangible.
Adjustment period where the emotionsare are sitting present and we're
trying to learn somebody new.
Dr. Devin Giron (29:08):
Right?
So I was very fortunate.
Didn't seem like at the time to get outtadental school and go associate associate
with somebody, um, ran outta school.
And that associateshipfailed, uh, um, and it failed.
Bad meaning I went in a little bitbefore Christmas, the doors were locked.
(29:28):
He changed the locks on me and.
And, um, which means you don't trustme or some, something to that degree.
I mean, it was bad.
You go in there and if you don't planfor an associate coming in and you
don't have marketing for them, youdon't have instruments for them, like
you're not thinking at all, you'rejust kinda like, oh, he's gonna go do
(29:49):
all dentistry I don't wanna do, whichis nothing because, um, I'm gonna give
'em one to two new patients a month.
That situation, um.
Worked good for me.
And the sub, the, our new Dr. Dr.Baly had the same thing happen to him.
Not only once, but twice.
Dr. Dietrich had that happen to him,and those are really good learning
(30:14):
experiences because you don't realize how.
Much that affects yourprofessional career later.
That set me back a while and that set Dr.
Passi back a while and thatset Dr. Dietrich back a while
because we lost confidence.
We were like, we're failures,we're, how can we work everybody
that doesn't work for us?
And I think, I think nowadaysit's probably even worse.
It's hard.
(30:34):
So when we bring someone on,
we take our time on making sureit's a the right person, b.
Is this person someoneyou wanna partner with?
'cause I'm gonna treat it like we'regonna get married from day one.
Also, the staff knows wehave meetings with staff.
(30:55):
'cause like, I don't know,I don't know this guy.
I'm like, do you think I would bringsomeone that in that you couldn't trust?
And she said, no, youalways look out for us.
And, and they're like, okay, if,if he's good for on your side, if
you trust him, we're gonna, we'regonna, you know, trust but verify.
But I also say he's gonnado things different than me.
(31:15):
He or she's gonna do thingsway different than me.
And that's okay.
There's lots of different ways toget from point A to point B, and,
um, he needs your help to do that.
If you can help him, help him, there'ssomething you see, let him know.
Like our egos aren't that you cantell the doctor, we're not gonna throw
things, we're not gonna yell at people.
That's, that's a cool,cool part of our practice.
(31:36):
Like, we're not, I'm like, oh, okay.
Like, thanks for telling me that.
About whatever Dr.
Dietrich does or whatever, different thanme, it's not taken as, as, as a threat.
So, um, we really try toget ahead of the objections.
We really try to get them to know himas a human being versus a dentist.
Um, 'cause it's, it's stressfulfor the guy, the new guy coming in.
(31:58):
Yeah, right.
It's a mess.
I mean, have you guys, I'm not sureif you guys ever associated it before.
It's stressful and, and everyone'sgoing to be, in my case, on my
side because I'm the og, right?
Mm, mm-hmm.
Before anybody else, and I try tomake sure that that's minimized.
I know they will always have that bias.
Regan Robertson (32:18):
Mm-hmm.
Well, you've built that trust too.
I mean, you're,
Dr. Devin Giron (32:22):
you've built the trust.
Correct, but there's always thatlike, give him the benefit of
the doubt that that wasn't theintention of whatever you thought
he or she was thinking about doing.
Or have you talked to him like, 'causewe all have different perspectives on
different, different ways of doing things.
And so like it's, um, a lot of timesthey try to paint his black and white,
(32:44):
the staff and it's not necessarily.
That, and you gotta kind of be theperson that's going to say like,
no, no, you, you can do it there.
That's okay.
It becomes different than, okay.
There was an example likethat with my associate.
My assistant comes and says, Hey,you know how when someone, um, needs
pain medicine, you write 'em likean 800, uh, milligram ibuprofen.
Uh, the associate was, uh, wasgiven a 600 milligram ibuprofen.
(33:08):
Can you believe it?
That's not what we do.
And I was like.
And I said, you know, that'sactually not a bad idea.
And she was blown away because I was like.
I think that's, that's smart.
I just keep things simple.
I just go, here's your eight hundreds.
But like he wanted to add a littlebit of sophistication to it.
I said, that's actually, that's superokay and wise, and she was blown
(33:31):
away that I'm gonna agree with him.
But you know what?
I think it was also importantthat I did that because if
I said, are you kidding me?
What we do is.
800 milligrams and you can,and it can never change.
It's just pre-med.
Pre-med protocols never change, you know,
I think we're, I don't get it in dentistry, we're all so
insecure about stupid stuff, and I, I,it's like you guys, you, you could have
(33:53):
seriously argue about 600 versus 800,like for a whole dentist that will Yeah.
There'd be a wholeconference to argue about it.
Yes.
Yeah.
And I'm like, dude, like, who cares?
Dentist, dude's just a tooth.
Like yeah.
I mean, you know what I mean?
Like,
I,
I do,
I do.
You wanna argue about it?
No.
I'm, I'm totally agreeing with you.
Will you not Let me agree with you.
(34:14):
Stop agreeing with me.
Maybe I won't.
Regan Robertson (34:18):
Devin, what did you do to go from Wednesday to Friday?
Why did you choose not towalk out of the practice?
What stopped you and changed thedirector, the trajectory of, of your week?
What, what kept it in check for you?
Include love of the team.
Go.
Dr. Devin Giron (34:40):
Say Stop it.
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The um, yeah, the, I knew if Iwalked out, I remember this actually.
So fifth grade, this attorneywas teaching us how to become,
uh, attorneys at fifth grade.
Everyone's like, I don'teven know how to, like, like
Regan Robertson (34:58):
fifth grade elementary school.
Dr. Devin Giron (35:00):
Yes.
Fascinating.
Dr. Mr. Howard was his, hewas fresh outta law school.
Okay.
And my teacher thought it was a brightidea to bring an attorney to teach us
about, I don't know, attorney stuff.
And so he, he was having to spelllike, weird, I forgot what it was.
Like some stupid thing and there noone will pious a hundred percent.
(35:22):
I guarantee you.
We all have these stupid things.
He would come like once a month,like it was on no one's radar.
And I still remember that asshole.
Some guy couldn't, not Reagan,he was realizing the kids were
not engaged with his bullshit.
Why?
Because we're in fifth grade.
Like come to a level like let's,let's, that's like you're an adult.
Like come to a level.
(35:42):
And I still remember it.
He got his briefcase, walked out.
Got in his old beat up Ford 'cause hecouldn't afford a nice car and drove off.
And I was like, oh shit.
Like he left the classroom.
He left the fifth graders.
Yeah.
And uh, to have hislittle baby cry moment.
(36:03):
And I was all like, if I do that, like,and he had like a, a ponytail, you
know, they bring it back when you'rethinning and the ponytail and all that.
It just didn't look good.
His cowboy hat.
And, uh, yeah.
And no one liked him.
No one liked him after that for sure,because he had handed Oh, so he came back.
(36:24):
Yeah, he had to come back.
He had to come back.
He had to come back anddeal with the kids now.
And now we actually didn't like himlike a hundred percent 'cause we knew
he'd abandoned us if it didn't makethe point he was trying to make, which
was like, you guys need to study up.
You guys are wasting my time.
Like quit wasting my time.
I could be fighting the legal worldsomewhere in some corporate conglomerate.
(36:46):
Who knows, and it backfired.
And so that never works like that, do you?
No.
No one wants when stuff's going bad.
No one wants their leader togo like, screw this, I'm out.
It's not gonna prove a point.
It's just gonna give you a pity party.
And, um, yeah, the rest of theweek they've been doing good.
We did send out a newsletter with a spelltypo today, but hey, that's all right.
(37:08):
Like, okay, like that'sjust capping the week off.
But no, they're seeingseven emergencies today.
I'm like, sweet, good for you guys.
Keep crushing.
So the weeks, and I told, I told theboys, they say, boys finish week.
Good.
Had a crappy week.
Get together, finish strong, let's go.
And they're having a good week.
Other than we did have a patient thatwe tried to buy a hotel room for, 'cause
(37:30):
she was doing, she's a news anchor andshe was getting her top teeth done by.
Dr. Dietrich on a Thursdaygot a really nice hotel.
Apparently we didn't, so we havea lady drugged up going through
Santa Fe with no hotel room.
Oh no.
So it's like, that was Thursday.
No, that was Wednesday.
That kept Wednesday out.
But no, the week, but it's, it goes onwe that next week to do better, but I
(37:55):
shouldn't, good thing I didn't walk outbecause I got my production from like,
I don't even know, a thousand bucks to10,000 bucks if I would've walked out.
I would've lost out on $9,000.
My team would've beenlost confidence in me.
And yeah, I wouldn't havebeen productive that day.
Regan Robertson (38:12):
So, so this is a hot topic you're giving listeners.
Um, an incredible, really powerfullesson that shouldn't be, should not
be overlooked because great leadersdon't turn their back even when it is
really hard saying, it sounds so flat.
Um.
Have any you, none of you probably.
Listen, listeners tell me, haveyou, has any of you watched the
Mcbe Dynasty reality series?
(38:35):
Not even a never heard.
It'll be on your guys' radar someday.
It is like a Yellowstone cattleranching farm outta Missouri.
Long story short, it's, it's huge.
It's all about this big rancherwho wants to get a hundred million
dollar VC deal, uh, to, to expand.
And he also has a host ofcar washes and coffee shops.
And long story short, my TLDR is he.
(38:58):
Not only did he go under FBI investigationand he's awaiting sentencing now
for a crop insurance fraud, but he,uh, lost the VC deal and, and left.
He put his sons in charge of theentire ranch, but he just bounced.
And it has been a hot topic inmy household this week because we
have talked about leadership andwhen you have to show up is when
(39:20):
you often feel the absolute worst.
It is a hard moment.
I think all of us have had that momentwhere we just wanna throw up our hands
and walk away and, and you really, theopposite is, is sticking it through.
And then to contrast.
Devin, you received a five starreview every single day this week.
(39:40):
And I think that that's an insanetestament to what your handle on the
other side and how the, you know, whatit means to be high performing, but
also how you are obviously bufferingsome of the experience that's going
on and, and, um, your team andyourself and your doctors are, are
still delivering really great service.
So, um, yeah, few achesprobably got broken.
(40:03):
I just, I don't know if you look at yourreviews, I just googled your reviews,
but I'm just like, wow, what a contrast.
The reality is such a contrast.
Um, you can still do great, still have areally crappy week and wanna walk away.
And I'm just, I think that's amazingthat you had an anchor story from fifth
grade, one of your developmental years,and we learned from great mentors and
(40:25):
we also learned from train wrecks.
And the lawyer was a triple train wreckthat you've never forgotten about.
And you said, I don't wanna be that guy.
And I bet you even, you know, pictured,like you said, his crappy car.
Dr. Devin Giron (40:35):
Well, it's up here.
It's up here.
Regan Robertson (40:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that stopped you and then, youknow, so two days later, do you feel
like it's getting a little better now?
Do you feel like, okay, I've,I've gone past the hurdle and,
Dr. Devin Giron (40:48):
yeah.
No, a hundred percent no.
That's just you're, when youkeep going, Monday sucks.
Tuesday sucks, Wednesday sucks.
And you pull it out every day.
You're still upset that you had to gothrough that crap, but one day or two
days removed, it's like, oh, okay, cool.
I'm good.
I'm energized and we're ready to go.
That's why productive dentistry is cool.
'cause I'm not doing it five days a week.
(41:08):
I'm doing it three days a week.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Hopefully two days.
Yeah.
Regan Robertson (41:12):
We didn't even get into your schedule that
you're doing three days a week.
Dr. Devin Giron (41:15):
Yeah, no, three days a week.
So I've been doing that for,I don't even know, two, three.
Yeah.
I'm not sure how long, but it's,it's something that, um, it gives
you a little bit of time away fromthe office because I used to work
five days a week and that was, itseems like you don't even get a week.
I don't know how dentists do that beingthat we deal in a stressful environment.
So, um.
(41:35):
No, it's, I'm, I'm already ready to go.
I could go in today if I really wanted to.
Just having that day off wasenough to recharge the batteries.
Mm-hmm.
Does that make sense?
Regan Robertson (41:45):
It does.
I, I have one last question.
Good.
Dr. Devin Giron (41:48):
Bruces there.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes sense.
Regan Robertson (41:52):
What, what is one thing you're gonna do maybe differently
or, or prepare for next week?
Dr. Devin Giron (42:02):
Well, we have a meeting next week, half the day, eight.
So that's what we do on once a month.
We'll shut down the office halfthe day and have a meeting.
So
for that, um,
I don't know what I'mgonna do differently.
Reagan, we do the same thing all the time.
So we have stress tests likethis, we're prepared for it.
(42:23):
So I'm not sure we're gonna do anythingdifferently, um, because we're always, um.
Preparing for things like thisso that things like this don't
happen, but when they do happen,we're kind of ready for it.
So I'm not sure if we're gonna doanything different or I'm a pessimist,
I'm always preparing for stupid stuff.
Yes, you are.
(42:43):
I'm sorry.
Sorry.
And so I'm always like,oh, I gotta get this ready.
I don't wanna run outta money.
I don't want, and it's like they're noteven real like fears, but they scare me.
I'm afraid of everything.
Dr. Cha (42:56):
Risk.
I have an idea, Reagan, and it goesback to it, uh, like if you have
your core values, then have yourteam come up with examples of how the
team shows up for each core value.
And that is when Joanne, my coach,helped draft are code of ethics, same
key words, but then with descriptionsunderneath of what that means.
(43:20):
To be that core value because whenleft to it being nice is a core value
that it sounds great, but it's like,okay, what's an example of that?
Dr. Devin Giron (43:30):
The chance.
Shut up, dude.
I can't.
You're welcome.
Goodbye.
I love you, dude.
I can't do you Don anymore, man.
Go.
Go ahead, Reagan.
Regan Robertson (43:37):
I recommend we have Devon.
This has been a riveting hour, by the way,listeners, I hope you got a lot from this.
Uh, I propose we have Devon on again.
I wanna hear more about this stresstest and uh, and I know that it works,
so I wanna know more about these about.
Your, your half day meetings thatyou have and, and what you put into
place so that, that, you know, theliving, breathing relationships
(43:58):
keep up to your high standard.
Devin, thank you for being on our podcast.
It's been great.
Thanks,
buddy.
Dr. Devin Giron (44:05):
I want your code of ethics on my desk by Friday.
Chad, I've already tried those.
Dude, they don't work.
Dude.
I've just like, I can't, I can't.
I've done I Awesome.
I'm coming down.
I'm coming down to Albuquerque to youguys, just so, oh, I'm just doing that.
Just, did you stop recording it?
No.
You did?
No.
What do you wanna say?
Stop recording it.
Why?
Okay.
Okay.
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