April 23, 2025 • 57 mins
Dr. JJ Peterson joins Everyday Practices to unpack how today’s best brands cut through the noise with story. If your practice marketing isn’t converting, this episode explains why—and what to do about it. From empathy to testimonials, websites to front desk scripts, learn what great brands get right.
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Episode Transcript
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Regan Robertson (00:02):
JJ Peterson, it is phenomenal to have you here today
with Chad and Maggie and I, uh, foryou listeners, you know how much I
love StoryBrand and business madesimple and, and how much it's helped
not just change my own life, butchange all of the dentist lives that,
that we have been able to touch.
And you know how giddy I get whenI know we're gonna have a guest
(00:24):
that's gonna share stuff that youcan put right into your practice.
You don't have to buy anything.
You can just.
Listen in, and JJ is really,really gifted at that.
What did you say, Chad?
Dr. Chad Johnson (00:35):
I was like, right.
Regan Robertson (00:39):
Uh, for, for those of you, um, who don't know
who Dr. JJ Peterson is, he is oneof the, I would say the, the, he's
not a founder of StoryBrand, butyou've been a key pinnacle part of
StoryBrand from very, very early on.
You have your PhD in narrative.
Transportation, and that might bea, a confusing word for some folks,
(01:00):
and I'm wondering if you could sharefor us what narrative transportation
is and why were you so passionatethat you went out and got a PhD in
communication with this as a, as a focus?
Dr. JJ Peterson (01:10):
Well, first off, thank you for having me and
thank you for that introduction.
Very, very sweet.
And.
You know, it, it all comes down to, forme, why I really started setting this
is if I'm, I, I'll just be, I don'toften share this part of the story,
so I'll just share it with you guys.
I remember sitting in a movie theaterand watching the movie Armageddon.
(01:31):
You know, that old cheesy movie where Yes.
Regan Robertson (01:33):
Has that Ben Affleck
Dr. JJ Peterson (01:34):
and Ben Affleck go face and a meteor's coming to Earth,
and of course they have to drill down,put in a bomb in the middle and explode
it before it destroys the earth.
Of course, right.
It, it's not, I mean, it, ifyou've seen it, you know, it is
not one of those, uh, it didn't winany awards, let's just say that.
But it was incredibly popularand very fun, especially the
(01:57):
song that came out of it.
You know, it was very emotional andeverything, and I genuinely remember
this was, this was a turning pointfor me in my life, sitting down in
that theater and watching people ballall around me when spoiler alert, uh.
Uh, Bruce Willis gives up his lifefor the earth, basically, and, and
(02:19):
he, he stays behind so everybodyelse can live and people are bawling.
And I was sitting there going.
How can I learn how to tellstories that move in this way,
that move people in this way?
And because I was like,this is not a good movie.
And yet people love it.
And also I loved it.
You know when I say it's not a goodmovie, it's not 'cause I didn't love it.
(02:41):
I just, you know, this ischeesy, it's kind of dumb plot.
It's really, uh, you know, out thereand yet it was a blockbuster and
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:49):
Wow.
And was this 96 ish jj?
90? I think so.
All, all I, all I know was that song if,if you wanted to Slow Dance with Girls
Regan Robertson (02:58):
Aerosmith, right?
Yes.
Oh boy.
So we didn't, if youwanted to slow dance with
Dr. Chad Johnson (03:02):
girls, you ha you were not knocking this movie.
You were like, I Oh yeah.
You know, I like this movie.
Dr. JJ Peterson (03:08):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
But we, I think we can all be honest it.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (03:12):
1998, was it 98?
Dr. JJ Peterson (03:16):
So 98, and so that really inspired me to go back and do
my first really deep dive into story.
And my master's degree actuallywas in Theology in the Arts.
So it was a study of film andtelevision and music and how
to use art to convey truth.
And motivate and move people to action.
Dr. Chad Johnson (03:37):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. JJ Peterson (03:38):
That's where it started and I just started studying the power of
story and through that then kind of began,I worked in Hollywood for a little while.
I did some acting, I did some writing,I did, I directed a documentary.
I. Did a bunch of that kind of workand ultimately chose to use that to
go back to help the next generationof leaders be better communicators.
(03:58):
So I became a professor and I startedteaching communication and leadership and
really how to use the power of story tomove people in positive and engaging ways.
Then I ultimately met Donald Miller,who is the founder of StoryBrand, and he
was just getting started with StoryBrandand I brought him out to speak to my
(04:19):
students about the power of story.
When I was leaving, I had solda reality television show.
And So you sold
Regan Robertson (04:25):
a reality television show?
I did.
Dr. JJ Peterson (04:27):
Never made it to air, but
Regan Robertson (04:28):
Oh, I was gonna say, are you responsible for that jj?
Small
Dr. Chad Johnson (04:31):
fact.
Small fact.
I was the first mainprotagonist on his show.
Just kidding.
Just kidding.
Dr. JJ Peterson (04:39):
And now we have a full circle moment.
I had brought Donald Miller out to,uh, to speak to my students and he's
like, I'm launching this thing whereI combine storytelling principles and
teaching businesses how to clarifytheir message using the power of story.
And I thought, well,yeah, this will be fun.
This will be fun for me to kindof experience another thing.
And I was living in LA at thetime and flew out to Nashville.
(05:02):
And went through the StoryBrand framework,probably the very first workshop that
was ever like public, and I was hooked.
This is what I had been trying todo for 20 years of teaching people
how to use the power of story.
And so I was already in my PhD at thatpoint, and I decided to dive deeper
into narrative theory and narrativeprinciples, and specifically narrative
(05:25):
marketing and a huge piece of.
When you ask the question,why does, why do stories work?
Why do stories work to move us?
Why do they work to change our minds?
Why do they have an impact on us?
What I discovered in my studiesis that really the biggest reason
(05:45):
for impact or influence of astory is narrative transportation.
Narrative transportation iswhat happens when somebody
can see themselves in a story.
So if you've ever experienced, like, uh,you've been in a movie and you've laughed
or cried at Armageddon, or you've jumpedwhen something scary happens, you've
(06:09):
experienced narrative transportation.
Now what the research shows is thatwhen we see ourselves in a story,
we actually experience higherlevels of narrative transportation.
But it's not just about relating tothe character on the screen, which
is a piece of it, but it's aboutthe story actually Makes sense.
(06:29):
And allows us to enter into it because ithas what's called fidelity and coherency.
It sticks together and makes sense.
It follows the rules.
So the better the story, the betterthat they follow the rules, the more
narrative transportation we experience.
But here's where it gets fun is thehigher levels of narrative transportation
that you experience in a story, themore influence that story has on your
(06:53):
thoughts and actions, it act actuallychanges the way we think and act.
Now what I kind of took that, andthere's already some study around
this, but what I kind of then wentto the next level with was the idea
of how does this work in marketing.
Everybody says you needto tell a good story.
You know stories that are a buzzwordwhen it comes to business and marketing,
(07:15):
but most people really are tellingthe wrong stories, and so I wanted
to discover what it looked like tocreate narrative transportation.
In marketing and the research showsthat people can experience narrative
transportation through websites,through emails, through sales
pitches, and even like social media.
As little as a tweet, people can actuallyexperience narrative transportation.
(07:40):
So I wanted to then bea part of something.
So that's kind of the long way allgoing, all the way back to Armageddon.
Dr. Chad Johnson (07:46):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. JJ Peterson (07:47):
Sitting in there going Armageddon can move people.
Why can't I, I mean, genu, that was kindof like one of those things of like,
why don't I have that power to, in apositive way if I'm influencing like
students and I'm challenging them to livebetter lives and to love people better.
At the time even, I was working for anonprofit that built homes in Mexico.
(08:07):
So my job was to be, I was the fundraiserand the communications manager for this
nonprofit that literally was savingpeople's lives, and I couldn't figure
out how to get people involved in it.
I couldn't figure out how totell a good story, and I'm
like, and Armageddon does it?
Come on.
So that's really, that was the start.
(08:28):
And what.
We've discovered over the years isthat when you tell a good story that
people can see themselves in, they willexperience narrative transportation,
and that story will then have higherinfluence on their thoughts and actions.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (08:45):
Wow.
Can we get.
Sorry.
No, go ahead.
Can we, can you give us ideas of companiesthat have used EE excellent, um, narrative
transportation in their marketingcampaigns so that we can kind of start
to picture exactly how that's transpiredand the things that we see and use?
Dr. JJ Peterson (09:06):
Yeah.
On a very high level, Nike.
Right.
Nike is not, we have the best shoes.
Nike is just do it.
It's about the person wearing theshoes and their ability to step
into their own athleticness, right?
Most of us are not MichaelJordan on the basketball court,
but a lot of us wear Nike.
(09:26):
I'm wearing Nike's right now and if youcould see a full screen of me, you would
really see that I'm not a professionalathlete, uh, but I wear them for comfort.
For look, but also because whenyou put on that kind of tennis
shoe, there's an A level where youfeel a little bit more athletic.
You can go walking a little easier,you can exercise a little bit easier.
(09:46):
Nike says, just do it.
Apple.
Apple, when you look at mostof apple's ads, especially from
their successful campaigns.
They have very little, if not zeroto do with the actual product.
Mm-hmm.
They have to do with you are a creator.
Mm-hmm.
You are a misunderstood, you are, havethe ability to change the world and
then they show somebody, you know, inIceland, you know, going up huge rocks,
(10:11):
but they're taking a picture with an iPad.
Like it has nothing to dowith the product itself.
They're not making the productof the hero of the story.
They're making their customerthe hero of the story.
Mm-hmm.
And that anytime you see that inadvertising, when people can identify
with that, you know, it's why itwith allergy commercials, you always
(10:32):
see people sneezing on the screen.
Dr. Chad Johnson (10:35):
Oh yeah.
Dr. JJ Peterson (10:36):
That it's very simple.
But what that is, is if I'm sneezingbecause of allergies, I see myself
in that sneezer right on the screen.
So anytime there is a reflection of me.
And what I'm struggling with or what I'maspiring to in any kind of advertising
that creates narrative transportation, I.
Regan Robertson (11:00):
Jj Well, thanks
Dr. Chad Johnson (11:00):
for coming on our show today because,
Regan Robertson (11:05):
well, my mind keeps going, my mind keeps wrapping around,
like around Disney, and I remember adocumentary I watched where it was the, it
was the early days of Walt Disney and him.
Pushing so hard to get, I think itwas Snow White to the surface and
actually getting on the big screen.
And if I recall correctly, you had bigfinancial backers that had to do that.
And, and from your standpoint, wasit I in part yes to, to celebrate
(11:28):
animation and, and celebrate fantasy,but was the underlying feature really
almost, and maybe an intentional orunintentional experiment to see if you
could use narrative transportation.
In a delivery mechanismthat's completely fake.
Everyone knows it's completely fake,and you're still able to accomplish
that influence that you are looking for.
Dr. JJ Peterson (11:50):
Yes.
I, I mean, I don't know that there wasthat level of thought maybe put into
it, but I would say that that in orderto be able to do that in a different
mode, right, so the typical mode, youknow, started with like silent films
and then colored films and then, youknow, animation kind of like this,
the evolution, even Pixar, right?
Like Pixar taking, moving into Toy Storywas a leap from traditional animation.
(12:16):
And they wondered, can westill connect with people?
What made Snow White and what made, uh,you know, toy Story work was the story.
It was grounded in a compelling narrativethat was featuring an underdog, and
people can see ourselves in the underdogthat really, so what, what I teach
(12:36):
people is the StoryBrand framework andthe StoryBrand framework really is.
Based on storytelling principlesthat are in every story.
And when you follow these, you achievenarrative transportation and you achieve
fidelity and coherency in the story.
And those seven elements, basically justkind of break it down real quick, are that
(12:58):
every good story has seven things in it.
A character who wants something, whoencounters a problem, who meets a guide,
somebody that helps them win the day.
That guide gives 'em a plan.
There's a call to action, and thenwe know the stakes in the story,
which is either a happy endingsuccess or a negative ending failure.
(13:20):
The, that's the most basic plot of everymovie, every story you've ever seen.
Now going back to narrativetransportation and kind of your
question even about Snow White.
When writers can get the firsttwo elements of the storytelling
principle correct or make thempowerful, that is when the narrative
(13:42):
transportation experience happens.
You have to establish somethingthat a character wants.
Then.
You have to hook people inthe story with a problem that
that character's experiencing.
If the character is not experiencing aproblem, we don't connect with that story
because we have problems in our real life.
(14:03):
So we have to know and understandwhy the story is interesting
and why we connect to it.
So when you take a, any kind of movie,even if it's Snow White, it's an animated
character who, it's an animated character.
It's in a fantasy world with.
You know, witches and queens andanimals that dress you and you
know, all that different stuff.
(14:25):
However, it's really about a girlwho feels that she doesn't belong and
is outcast because she's a threat.
How many of us have ever felt thatkind of something we, yes, we don't
have animals that are dressing us,but we can connect to the problems
that she's experiencing, that we'rebeing oppressed by somebody in power.
(14:48):
The queen is trying to kill her, right?
That is an oppression ofsomebody above you trying to
control you or, or put you down.
Well, who of us have not experiencedthat at some point in our life?
So when the writers can actuallyconnect with that in the very
beginning of a story, establish whothis character is and what she wants.
(15:08):
And then hook us with herproblem that we can relate to.
Doesn't matter if she'sfemale and I'm male.
Doesn't matter if she's a cartoonand I'm real, I connect with that.
And where that now, I mean we've beentalking about movies and everything,
but where that actually then comes intoplay when it comes to a business, I.
Is most companies, when they go into try to tell quote unquote their
(15:31):
story, they begin to talk about theirproducts or their services that they
offer, and they try to say they, theyget a little bit insecure and try to
go, well, we're, how do I say that I'mthe best without saying I'm the best?
Right.
That's kind of like themarketer's conundrum.
It's like, how do I market myselfwithout bragging about myself?
Dr. Chad Johnson (15:50):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. JJ Peterson (15:51):
The question that you're asking there is what?
How do I tell my story?
Well, the reality is I think we needto be flipping that narrative about
marketing and instead of making usthe hero of the story, we need to make
our customers the hero of the story.
Sure.
So all of our marketing really shouldbe identifying what is it that our
customer wants, and talking aboutthat, what are our problems that
(16:13):
our customers are experiencing, andhow do we talk about how we solve?
Their problems.
If you can start with those two principlesin your marketing, you're going to be
stronger and further ahead than almosteverybody else because I think everybody
is, a lot of people are doing this wrong.
Regan Robertson (16:28):
You know, uh, listeners, you could Google, go to
YouTube and Google the farmer's dog.
Company and take a lookat their advertising.
They do a phenomenal job at this.
And then I want you, I'm givingyou homework listeners, go look at
your own marketing and also maybeyour competition and see if they've
got videos on YouTube as well.
Because one of the ways, JJ, thatI've seen this, where this narrative
(16:50):
transportation can work reallywell for dentists or other business
owners is these testimonial videos.
Having them start off withwhat that problem was.
And you're right, it doesn't matter if.
If they're a male or a female, ifthey're old or they're young, if they,
if they resonate with the problem,they connect with it immediately.
Dr. JJ Peterson (17:09):
Exactly.
That is one of the, you wannaknow how to do this the fastest
way in some of your marketing.
Of course.
No, no.
You're, I wanna know JJand goodnight everybody.
We talked about Armageddonand now we're out.
Um.
One of the thing, one, research showsthat one of the fastest ways to get people
to gain trust is through testimonies.
(17:29):
It is actually the number one influenceron why people choose to buy from
a specifically a personal brand.
So if you have, if you are trying to.
To you are a dentist, whicheven if you're a part of a
group, you are a personal brand.
People are coming to a personal dentist
Regan Robertson (17:48):
a hundred percent.
Dr. JJ Peterson (17:49):
And so the fastest way to gain trust and to the biggest influence
on buying decisions is testimonies.
Now, what a lot of people do isthey put up their Google reviews,
which are, you know, five stars.
That's wonderful.
Or they put up these.
She was great to work with.
My kids love her.
He is fantastic.
(18:10):
That's that right there does notcreate narrative transportation.
You have to do exactly whatyou were talking about.
You have to find testimoniesthat start with the problem they
were experiencing that othercustomers have that you can solve.
So if they said, I broke te, I brokemy teeth in a bike accident 10 years
(18:31):
ago and never got it fixed because itjust felt like it was too expensive
and too hard, I went into Dr.
Smith.
Not only did they take care of itin one afternoon, but I was able to
walk out with a smile that I love.
Problem solution success.
That's a short story.
So we, it doesn't even have tobe as long as I just said it, but
(18:55):
the testimonies you're looking forto go on your website, to go in
videos, to put on social media, I.
They can't just say they're fantastic.
They have to say, here was my problem.
When we start with a problem, evenif it's not the problem that I
currently have, I can see myself inthat story with my own problems, and I
actually start leaning into the trustthat's being created in that moment.
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:22):
Hmm.
Regan Robertson (19:23):
If you guys want something tangible listeners, uh,
go to clarksburg dental center.com.
They're live right now and,and scroll through there.
Now, I will say that, say it particularly.
Say again?
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:33):
Say it again.
Regan Robertson (19:33):
Clarksburg dental center.com.
And is it BURG
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:36):
or BERG?
It
Regan Robertson (19:37):
is BURG.
It doesn't state a problem.
That would, I would, Iwould kind of circle it.
However, it's a hundred percent focused.
I'm seeing right away on, on me.
One of my needs are, and I noticeeven in the Hiran it says we speak
multiple language in our practice,English, Spanish, Vietnamese, and
Chinese, Mandarin, and Cantonese.
(20:00):
I'm, I'm seeing right.
I'm seeing myself in that,right in that moment.
So listeners, I promised you thiswas gonna be chockfull of stuff
that you can look and see and feel.
Uh, and that's a good example of whatyou're talking about, JJ and physically.
Um, making sure that people feelseen and, and Maggie talks a lot in
her own practice about being, feel,feeling seen and feeling heard.
(20:20):
Um, and how important that is.
Let's maybe switch gears here and,and nerd out with me because we've
had something recently happen, uh, in,in pop culture with the recent flight
up to space with, uh, that was hostedby Blue Origin Jeff Bezos company.
And, uh, the question that I, that I posedand have been thinking about for days is
(20:41):
this marketing that's failed to launch.
Or was it maybe carefullycurated for a luxury niche?
Niche?
Chad?
Dr. Chad Johnson (20:51):
Oh, please, let's just do niche for a while.
I just can't tolerate the niche stuff.
Regan Robertson (20:57):
Was it, was it really focused towards really wealthy women?
And that was the whole entireintent and the polarization of it
all happening was, was by design.
Um, I tend to be a bit of an overthinker.
I, I don't think that's a bad thing,but just like, you know, snow white,
maybe I, you know, think a littledeeply of what actually was happening.
But, uh, but JJ I know you've got some,some thoughts on this and I. Listeners.
(21:20):
I do special, like I've done a coupleof special coaching sessions with JJ
and he has taken productive dentistacademies, marketing, and looked at it
and I've been like, what is missing?
What is hitting what is not?
And you are like a detective, jj,you really did earn your PhD. You're
really good at breaking it downlike an engineer and saying, okay,
this hit right, this is missing.
(21:41):
So you are.
Are an expert at that StoryBrandmethodology and framework.
And so I'm curious, what wereyour thoughts about the the
Blue Origin launch and the.
The buzz that it has created post-launch?
Yeah.
Dr. JJ Peterson (21:57):
You know, I think one of my, I'm not gonna call it fatal
flaws, but uh, it's one of my valuesis I always assume positive intent.
So I always start fromassuming positive intent.
And I think in the beginning theygenuinely were trying to highlight.
Women in space and women in, youknow, the, the, at NASA and all,
(22:19):
you know, empowering females.
I do think that that was wherethey really started from.
I just think they missed the mark.
Now I. If they were genuinely about inthe next two years in particular, we're
gonna sell flights to space to rich women.
They probably did do that.
I don't think that was theirintent with this campaign.
(22:39):
However, I think it was a PR move.
I think they were genuinely trying to doa PR move that brought goodwill towards.
Blue Origin, you know, like all of that.
I just think that was the intent and theway they thought they would do that is
they would connect it with women and thesciences and opportunities for women.
(23:00):
However,
I think they missed the markin a pretty big way, and it's
coming back to everything thatwe're just talking about is.
People could not see themselves inthe story, and that was Blue Origin's
fault because I think they had a lotof opportunity to make that happen.
(23:21):
They focused a bit on celebrity andexclusivity and the glam of it all,
and they wanted it to be aspirationalin that we could all, even men
could feel like maybe someday.
I could be in space becauseKaty Perry got to go to space.
So they wanted it to feelaspirational and emotional.
You know, even Ka Perry singing the whata Wonderful world song and everything.
(23:45):
I mean, that, that was supposed tomake an emotional connection, whether
it was, you know, scripted or not.
That's what that was supposed tobe, and it just didn't happen.
Where they easily could have shifted thenarrative is they still could have had
Ka Perry on the flight, but instead ofKa Perry talking about Katy Perry, Katie
(24:06):
Perry could have been talking about theteacher that they took on the flight
who is a STEM teacher, who encouragesyoung women to get into the sciences.
So Katie Perry could have beenlike, the reason I am here.
Is to point to this person that'sbeside me because she's the hero.
Katie Perry made herself the hero.
Gail, well, blue Origin, but
Regan Robertson (24:28):
she even said, jj, this isn't about me.
She said that a couple of times,but then kept talking about her.
Dr. Chad Johnson (24:34):
Correct.
Dr. JJ Peterson (24:36):
Yeah, all.
All they needed to do was they couldhave had a couple, a couple celebrities,
a couple people on there, but theyreally needed to have somebody who
had always dreamed and worked togo to space, but maybe because they
got in a car accident or had asthma.
Yes.
They couldn't go to space,and then Katie Perry could sit
there and go, this is a PhD.
(24:57):
In the sciences who's been working herwhole life and didn't have the advantage.
What Blue Origin actually allows is everyperson who wants to go to space to be able
to go to space, she's coming to space withus versus, oh, it was so emotional for me.
I was, you know, I was moved.
Your per my perspectiveis forever changed.
No.
We couldn't connect with the celebrityand the luxury and the unattainability, so
(25:19):
we couldn't see ourselves in that story.
So we didn't experiencenarrative transportation.
And then worse than that, it actuallybecame across as tone deaf when
a lot of people in the governmentare losing their jobs right now.
When a lot of people are feelingthe impact of the economic
shifts right now, they, theythat this is a tone deaf moment.
(25:42):
To have that kind of aspirational thing
Dr. Chad Johnson (25:45):
lavish now
Dr. JJ Peterson (25:46):
and going, you're gonna be rich and you can do that.
No, people aren't feeling that right now.
They can't, they, you know, very recently,especially, they couldn't afford eggs.
How are you that, how doI feel connected at all?
To this group of women whoI can't be a part of that I
will never go to space with.
Dr. Chad Johnson (26:02):
All right, so softball pitch question, is it recoverable for
a company to do something disastrouslike this and then change the narrative?
Dr. JJ Peterson (26:16):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, you can.
You can e you can change it.
And when you're that big too, I mean,the reality is Apple, I mean, a few
years ago, Pepsi had a huge misstepwhen they cast Kendall, Kendall
Jenner in an A. Oh, that's right.
I dunno if you remember that ad. I do.
It was a very tone deaf ad whereKendall Jenner essentially in the
(26:36):
ad, solved racism with a Pepsi, andit was just like, oh no, no, Pepsi.
You can't do that.
A Kardashian model, the richest modelin the world who's a Kardashian breaking
up, you know, black Lives Matterrallies, you know, it's just like,
no, no Pepsi, no, that was a misstep.
They were in the news.
(26:57):
They got a whole bunchof fi uh, pushback on it.
They're fine.
The, the groups like that have hugePR agencies can spend millions on,
on advertising and on differentcampaigns, and they can turn the
narrative around pretty quickly.
For those of us who are not in thatbillion dollar brand space, we actually
(27:19):
do have to be more careful about someof those bigger missteps where it comes
across in just a very small misstep.
In the way that we do marketing.
It's not as egregious, I wouldsay, as some of these big moves.
But for instance, when you are creating,let's go back to the testimony thing.
A lot of people love to grab testimoniesof the most extreme cases that they've
(27:43):
solved with their product or service.
So if you take.
For instance, showing that you asa dentist, as a high up in your
marketing, went to another countryand worked with children with, I
mean, this is be deeper like cleftpalate, but you actually, and you know.
We basically did these extrememakeovers, home makeovers, uh,
(28:07):
mouth makeovers with patients.
And you used that alone as yourprimary example of testimonies.
Dr. Chad Johnson (28:14):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. JJ Peterson (28:15):
I don't see myself in that.
The thing I see myself in is I. Novocainedoesn't work on me The way that it works
on other people, and that's actuallytrue, is that every time I go in the,
they the, they have to give me multipleshots over and over and over again in
order to actually work on my teeth.
'cause I feel everything and at somepoints I just let 'em do it and it
(28:38):
just hurts so I can get out of there.
That's mine.
I'm not dealing with this, you know,so I'm scared of the pain of dentistry.
I'm scared of my mouth being like,you know, getting cuts on it.
When I walk in there, I, you know, Iwant to be, they make sure like what
we are talking about with Maggie, likethat I'm heard that actually people
listen to me when I say I'm in pain.
(28:59):
I mean, I'm in pain and Iwanna, those are my problems.
So these extreme makeovers ofshowing like, oh, this is how bad
this person's teeth were, and thennow this is how good they are,
that's actually not gonna connectwith the majority of your audience.
You need to find testimonies.
You need to find, uh, uh, imagesthat are more reflective of the
(29:22):
type of patients that you regularlysee or regularly wanna have.
Regan Robertson (29:27):
Man, we, we talk about this a lot, like internally
at PDA, we have our own marketingagency and, and there are doctors
that wanna specialize in that.
Like they, they call 'em trainwreck dentistry sometimes,
like the mouth is just a mess.
They wanna do full mouth rehab andthere is a specific strategy to
reach out, attract those peoplein a, but it is a targeted effort.
(29:50):
It's not the shotgun blast marketing.
It's a totally different strategy.
Uh.
What's interesting though about whatyou just said with that too, though,
even that a problem like Novocainenot reacting with you the same way.
That could be a full mouth rehab,or it could be a single tooth,
it could be something small.
That's something that everybody acrossthe board could potentially relate to.
Dr. JJ Peterson (30:11):
Yeah.
And you know, and, and like you said,I'm not saying don't ever do those
full mouth rehabs, especially ifthat's the type of patient that you
want, then 100% to show, hey, we cando these extreme difference, you know?
But if you're a, uh, uh, you focus infamily dentistry or children's dentistry,
you know, pediatric dentistry, then.
(30:33):
Might be a little bit different,you know, in those sense.
Another thing, here's,here's another thing.
In the StoryBrand principle of allowhow you allow yourself to be positioned
as somebody who can help your customerwith their problems in a story I. The
hero always gets into a problem andthey can't overcome the problem on their
(30:54):
own, and so they have to find a guide.
So in movies, this is Obi one Kenobi.
This is Yoda.
This is Dumbledore.
This is Aslan.
You know, this is.
All of those characters who comealongside the hero and help them win.
That's the role in your marketing thatyou need to play for your customer.
You are not the hero of the story.
(31:16):
Your customer's the hero.
You are the guide.
So the way you position whatyourself with a guide to your
customer's, uh, to your customer'shero is with empathy and authority.
So you have to understand yourcustomer's problems and be able to
speak to them by saying, we understandgoing to the dentist is scary.
(31:37):
We understand that a lot of timespeople struggle with the medical field
because they don't feel listened to.
So don't ignore those questions or try tohide from them, honor them, speak to them.
When some, if a doctor says thatto me and says, look, I get it.
So many times when I have gone to thedoctor, they have ignored the things
(31:58):
that have, uh, that I've asked of them.
If somebody says that, I go, yes,that is, yes, a hundred percent.
And so you say that, and then they go,they start to trust you as their guide,
but then you have to lean into authority.
So you first lead with empathyand then lean into authority.
(32:18):
Authority is proof that you havesolved this problem for other people.
Mm-hmm.
So that's where the testimonies come in.
The years you've been in practice, thenumber of patients that you've served.
The specialties, the awardsyou've won, that's all authority.
That's why, you know, dentists have theirdegrees often on the wall is because
(32:38):
it's just showing, hey, I'm legitimate.
And especially if you've graduated from aprestigious school, it's a great school.
That's all that is there for.
It's for nothing else but to say youhave some authority, but that empathy
and authority has to go together.
If they don't go together.
If I can't see that you understandmy problems and feel them
(32:59):
with me, I don't see myself.
You are not in my story.
That's actually what it is.
It's not even that I can'tsee myself in your story, it's
that you are not in my story.
The quick, the quickest example Igive of this is like if I'm gonna go
to a gym and I say, go to a gym, andI'm looking for a trainer and I say,
Hey, I'm, I'm here to lose 30 pounds.
And the first trainergoes, oh my gosh, me too.
(33:23):
That's not my trainer.
Not my trainer.
That's empathy, but no authority.
If I go back to that gym and say,I'm looking for a trainer, and the
next trainer lifts up his shirt andshows me a six pack and says, well,
you gotta quit being lazy, fatty.
There's some authority there 'causewe've got the six pack, but no empathy.
If I go back, I don't know why I'mgoing back to this gym a third time,
(33:44):
but if I go back a third time and sayI'm looking for a trainer and I say,
you know, and I'm looking to lose 30pounds, and the trainer comes up and
says, look, I used to be 30 poundsoverweight myself, but over a couple
months I was able to take it off and nowI've actually been able to take help.
A hundred other people do the same thing.
That's now my guide.
(34:06):
They have the empathy, they understandme, but they also have authority.
So in your marketing, when you canjust make a simple statement like, you
know Maggie, I'm assuming, 'cause whatwe heard earlier that you say things
like, I understand that it sometimesyou don't feel heard at the dentist.
If you ever just say that.
All that does is let peopledrop their shoulders and start
(34:26):
to go, oh, she's my guide.
And then the fact that you have adiploma and the fact that you have a,
probably a brick building and the factthat you, you know, have staff and the
fact that you have testimony shows youknow what you're doing, but just that
first sentence says, oh, she gets me.
And I start to see you nowin my story as my guide.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (34:48):
Let me ask you something along those lines.
If somebody comes in with a six pack andI say to them, wait of beer or abs, what
kind of six pack are we talking about?
Let's
Dr. Chad Johnson (35:00):
just say their name is Chad, you know?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (35:03):
So, um.
This won't apply to you entirely.
Just that first part.
So if the six pack guy comes in, right?
Yeah.
And, and I say, I knowsometimes you don't feel heard.
Yeah.
He and I are kind of out of alignment.
Dr. Chad Johnson (35:20):
Yes.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (35:21):
And then me saying, I sometimes you don't feel heard.
That doesn't work in my favor anymore.
A
Dr. JJ Peterson (35:29):
hundred percent because you're not actually
telling their story, right?
That's where they can'tsee themselves in you.
So where it comes to, say, your overallmarketing, like your website or something
like that, that is really meant to bethis kind of shotgun effect of trying
to get as many people as possible.
The story that you're looking forto invite customers into is the one
(35:52):
that most relates to the type ofcustomers that you want to work with.
So if, if you want to work with.
Let's say people who want only like thewhite veneer, best looking teeth that
gets 'em ahead and puts 'em on a magazine.
Then you say that it has nothing todo with being, you know, the fact
that Novocaine doesn't work on you.
(36:13):
It, you know, you kind of goafter that broad audience.
If you want to go after the people,you want to be a full mouth makeover.
Then you speak to the problems andthe empathy to the problems of people
who need a full mouth makeover.
Same with children.
If you're a pediatric dentist,you speak to the parents and
what they're experiencing.
'cause kids aren'tshopping, the parents are.
(36:33):
So what fears do parents have?
And how do you speakto that in the parent?
So yes, you're going to, but likefor that, with pediatric dentistry,
if you say that about parents,you're missing everybody else
in the world who's not a parent.
That's okay because you're actuallyniching, niching down to what, uh,
Dr. Chad Johnson (36:54):
thank you, the
Dr. JJ Peterson (36:55):
audience you want.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (36:58):
Uh, but this goes, it goes beyond marketing.
It also goes to communication skills.
A
Dr. JJ Peterson (37:02):
hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
If you're leading your team,right, you're doing the same thing.
You try to lead with empathy.
I would argue it the best way toactually be able to influence and
move people to action is as theleader, lead with empathy, go.
What are they trying to experience?
Like even, even if I'm workingwith say, my own employees, I start
(37:25):
with, well, what do they want?
And what's the problem they'reexperiencing and how do I empathize
in this moment with that problemand yet lean into my authority to
say, look, we're gonna go this way.
And ultimately have a plan for them.
Give them very clear directions of wherewe're headed, even as a communicator.
That is the way that you I, I mean,when you, when I talk to anybody,
(37:48):
when I talk to my 8-year-old.
I, it, you know, there's a lotof times that I wanna come in
and Lord over, you know, becauseI'm just like, I don't have time.
You're eating your dinner.
Like, like, let's just, wedon't have time for this.
We we're not having this argument.
Eat, you know, we all, which
Regan Robertson (38:04):
always makes it worse, at least in my household.
The more I push, themore resistance I get.
I never get what I want that way, butI, I'm definitely, it's what I'm, what
I'm about or what timeframe I have.
I'm there.
Dr. JJ Peterson (38:14):
But if I can pause for two minutes and go, look, I get it buddy.
I get it.
It's not my favorite either, butyou know, and then I go, but you
want, you, you told me yesterdayyou wanna have strong muscles.
The protein in the chicken that you'reeating is gonna give you strong muscles.
So here's what we're gonna do.
You're gonna take three more bites, youknow, like, so I give a very, like, I
(38:34):
lean into, I don't back down, but if Ican start with, you know what, yeah, we've
had chicken twice this week and it's notmy favorite either, but this is what,
you know, you told me you wanted to have.
Of strong muscles and this is whathelps you have strong muscles.
Regan Robertson (38:46):
We, we just, so in that you just, were you spying on me?
'cause we just had chicken lastnight and I just, uh, had quite a
long conversation with my son aboutthe importance of chicken and I did
not say you want strong muscles andthat probably would've been helpful.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (38:59):
So I think you just created like, um, narrative, um.
Transportation.
Transportation with your kid by creatinga connection with him, by reducing
argument against the message andmaking abstract ideas real with him.
I mean like all in one sentence there.
Dr. JJ Peterson (39:17):
Yeah.
And when you position yourself, no matterwhat, whether it's your marketing or
whether it's leadership, communication,if you think of yourself as the
guide instead of the hero, it helpsto reframe the entire conversation.
Heroes in stories are actually weak.
We, we don't think about that.
We always wanna kind of be the hero of thestory 'cause they're the main attraction.
(39:38):
But here, I, I would all, I wouldchallenge anybody listening in the
next movie that you're wa watching,especially if it's an action adventure,
you know, anything like that.
And at any point in the movie, pausethe movie and just see if that moment,
if you would say, is the hero happyand having a good time right now.
Nine times outta 10, the answer is no.
(39:59):
They're getting beat up.
They've been left behind, they failed.
They're like being a hero.
They're up and down the whole thing.
They don't actually become the hero andtransform until the end of the story.
The guide is the strongestcharacter in the story.
Because the guide is steady, theguide doesn't need to prove anything.
So OB one Kenobi, Yoda.
(40:20):
Aslan, Dumbledore, um, you know, Hamit,even in Hunger Games, they've already won.
They don't need to prove anything.
They don't transform.
They don't change, and they don'thave to make the story about them.
So when we as leaders or as businessowners try to make the story about
us and how great we are and try toconvince everybody what we're actually
(40:41):
coming across as insecure and weak.
When we come across as the guide wherewe actually lead with empathy and we
step into our authority without apology,and we work to help our hero, the
people that we're serving win, that'sthe strongest character in the story.
I.
Regan Robertson (41:01):
I would love to talk about how there are some really unique
ways to use StoryBrand, uh, that sitsoutside of websites and videos and
social media that, that I personallyhave applied or I've seen it applied.
That's quite brilliant.
And, and doctors, uh, listening, Ihave some hard data for you as well.
(41:21):
So, uh, one you can coach executives.
To this, you can, even if you're anoffice manager listening right now, you
can influence your own, uh, dentist,who's the business owner, if you can
walk them through this process yourself.
I do it all the time.
Uh, if I'm in executive meetings andwe're preparing for a presentation,
I ask myself, um, I remind myselfwho is the audience, and then when
(41:44):
I'm talking to the leaders, I say.
Put yourself in their shoes.
What are they going towanna get out of this?
What is in it for them?
And it's like this anchor point or atrigger, or whatever you wanna call it.
It's a, it's a way to spin it and get themout of their head so they have something
they want to achieve as an objective.
And, and it's like Schrodinger's cat.
You actually can't focus on what you want.
(42:06):
You have to focus around it.
Bruce Baird says this all the time for.
Productivity.
You know, you can't justfocus on getting dental sales.
You have to actually focus ontaking great care of the patients.
Then you end up gettingwhat you actually want.
And I did this yesterdaywith a super good friend.
He's been out of work for like sixmonths or so, and he was getting down
to the wire and didn't know what to do.
(42:28):
And so I encouraged him to tella story that's mission based.
What is actually the mission.
Yes, you need a job.
You have to have a job,you gotta have income.
That's.
That's what people focus on.
But what is it really about?
Actually.
It's about being able to, tostay in the same location.
It's about providing a good life.
For others, it's, it'sabout serving the community.
(42:50):
And that coaching, which wascompletely StoryBrand driven,
created an outreach that he crafted.
And as of this morning, has been nonstopon the phone since yesterday night.
Into today with offers andpeople willing to help.
And I was just, I was reallyemotionally moved by that because
we can use StoryBrand in ways thatsit outside of the traditional
(43:14):
marketing methods, if you will.
The other thing, this is whereI promised you guys data, uh.
Through my own story and, and throughwhat we know about dental practices or
any business is that customer experiencesa journey with many intersections.
So JJ you talk a lot about buildingtrust and I think authenticity gives like
(43:35):
that, uh, it's like subconscious almost.
It gives this truth to themessage that you speak.
So empathy and authority is great.
You can't.
Disingenuously like offer empathyif you don't really care about it.
So a lot of people have tobe sitting in those shoes.
So like Maggie for example, somebodycomes in with a six pack, okay, you
(43:57):
don't wanna meet them with the ICU andyou feel unseen, but you certainly could
with genuine care and authenticity, say.
I know what it feels like to, to beseen, to be on the stage, to have my body
be part of my work and viewed as such.
So you could connect with them on that.
They actually are seen and thengive your authority around that.
(44:20):
So I've gone through and mapped out.
All 21 steps that a patient takes fromwhen they first hear about you, be it from
another patient or a website search, SEO,whatever it is, every little intersection.
And we started applying StoryBrandmethodology to those interactions.
I mean, and I'm talking down tolike in the restroom, what is in the
(44:41):
restroom of, of business, uh, and.
So we've done that for reengagement.
So, uh, a a dentist for example,will treatment plan and present
that treatment to a patient.
And they, what they dowith it is up to them.
They're either gonna scheduleor they're gonna not schedule,
or they're gonna hesitate.
And so many businesses, theyleave it at that, it doesn't
(45:02):
even have to be dentistry.
So many businesses will pitch somethingand then they just let it fall flat.
So, uh, so.
I'm excited about this because usingStoryBrand and crafting one text
message, one simple text message thathas climactic foreshadowing, I've been
promised not to give you the exactformula, but it uses these methodologies.
(45:25):
We've been able to see enormousgains and that takes very little
effort on the practice itself.
The business itself, marketing can feel soheavy at times and like it's a big lift.
One text message can equate to over$300,000 in treatment scheduling.
Dr. Chad Johnson (45:41):
Mm-hmm.
Regan Robertson (45:44):
That's crazy.
It's exciting.
It's, it's, it's exciting.
It's exciting because I thinkI'm, I, I'll speak for myself.
I get exhausted.
It's a lot of, it's a lot ofrunning around these days.
It's a lot of promotions.
Um, uh, you know, when I thinkabout being a dental practice
owner, there's always competition.
You're never in a town where there'sno other competition and, and everyone
(46:08):
has, has access to marketing and, and.
Prices are getting more expensive.
You know, the digital clickthroughsare expensive, so it can feel
a little choking at times.
And you have to be a business owner,you have to be a great clinician,
you have to be a great boss.
Um, basically you have to bean expert in a lot of areas
that you shouldn't have to be.
And I love, to your point, jj,um, that everyone deserves a guide
(46:28):
that that can help them get there.
And I don't know, uh, how, I knowthat you hear all sorts of businesses.
Are there other creative ways that you'veseen StoryBrand used that surprise you?
Dr. JJ Peterson (46:41):
Um, one, I mean, I don't know about a, a very simple way is the
way that you do your bios on your website.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (46:48):
Hmm.
I wanna know more.
Dr. JJ Peterson (46:49):
Yeah.
So instead of, again,making the story about you.
You make it about your customers.
So instead of saying like, oh yeah, Ilove this ice cream and this is how many
kids I have, and this is where I went toschool, you start with something along
the lines about what got you passionateabout getting into dentistry, and
that should be to solve their problem.
Or if you're in pediatric dentistry,you say, as a mother myself.
(47:12):
Or as a parent myself, I understandand you, so you're really telling your
customer's story in your bio, not yours.
You put in facts about yourself,but the only reason you're doing
that is show empathy and authorityto solve your customer's problems.
So speaking into those ways and, andeven when, you know, when somebody comes
(47:32):
in and they're scared and the firstperson they see is the receptionist.
Uh, I'll be honest, many timeswhen I go in to a medical office,
whether it's a doctor or dentist,I'm usually nervous, right?
This is not, especially if I'mthere for the first time, I.
And if I walk up to that counterand they are all talking to each
(47:54):
other, it's very, and then just kindof go, we'll, we will be right with
you, and you feel very dismissed.
Or they throw a, they're on thephone and they throw a clipboard
at you that tells me you feel likeyou're more important than me.
So automatically they've madethemselves the hero in the story
and instead being able to say.
(48:15):
Is this your first time?
Oh my gosh.
Come on in.
You know, I know a lot of patientswho come in here are nervous,
but we are here to serve you.
That's it.
Just by saying, you don't evenhave to say you are nervous.
A lot of patients when theyfirst walk in are always nervous.
We get that, but we, we've beenaround for a long time and we, we
love, in fact, here have a, havesome water that just right there.
(48:37):
Mm-hmm.
Versus like, Hey, fill thisout while I'm on the phone.
If somebody does that to me now, Ihonestly, I, I am like, I don't know
that I want to be here anymore and Idon't care how good they're, how great
three views are about their services.
What that's telling me is you thinkyou're very important and I am
not going to feel very importanthere, even at the very front desk.
(48:58):
So it's an entire mindset shiftof even everybody on your staff of
saying, we are the guides and guides.
Allow people and help peoplefeel seen, heard, and understood.
If we're the hero of thestory, then I'm busy.
I'm overwhelmed.
I don't know if I can deal with this.
That's the mentality, and everybodywho's walking in that door feels it.
(49:21):
But if I'm the guide.
I can say I understand how a busyand wildlife can be and taking
time out to come into the dentist.
Like when I have to go take my kids tothe dentist, which I've had to recently,
Dr. Chad Johnson (49:31):
we have to
Dr. JJ Peterson (49:32):
get 'em outta school or we have to schedule ours
at seven in the morning so that wecan be back to get 'em at school.
You know?
And it's like, it'sinsane and it's, Hey, I'm
Regan Robertson (49:41):
glad the dentist is open at seven.
That's showing that they care.
That's nice.
I like that.
Dr. JJ Peterson (49:45):
So we have, we, uh, we have, uh.
Appointments at 7:00 AM for theadults because yeah, absolutely.
We can get back and get thekids and get 'em to school.
So that's, that is nice.
But it also, any new placeI walk into is terrifying.
So just little things like that of like,how are people greeted when they walk in?
How, what are the bioslike on the website?
(50:07):
What are you saying?
When people sit down in thechair, are they looking at the
chart or are you looking at them?
Those are actually principles.
It's not just about good customer service.
You're, you're telling a story in each oneof those moments, and what you're saying
is either I'm the hero of the story, ormy customer is the hero of the story.
And for customers and businessesto win, they need to understand
(50:32):
that their customers the hero ofthe story and they're the guide.
It's a win-win for both.
But in reality in that you arepositioning yourself as the
strongest character in the story.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (50:43):
And this is, it's, it's incredibly
powerful what you're saying.
And, and maybe I'm going to comeoff a little defensive, um, because
I don't have 7:00 AM appointments,but I. Can you scratch a nerve?
Yeah, yeah.
We, we are going against, and then, anda lot of what you're saying, I teach and
I write about because it has to do with,uh, neuron mirroring and it has to do with
(51:05):
compassionate, it has to do with humanity.
And we're moving away from that.
I am, I am.
I am in your boat.
I am in your camp.
I will come to your church, but.
We're not taught that, you know,as providers, as practitioner, as
clinicians, we are not taught that.
Right.
And um.
(51:26):
And there's very littleappreciation when, when we do
serve like that to our patients.
Dr. JJ Peterson (51:32):
Um, I think it's gonna be the differentiation moving forward.
I genuinely do.
Um, I think, you know, especiallyin a world of like AI and
different things that people areexperiencing on all sorts, sorts of.
Levels.
But I think the human, the humanside of things being seen, heard,
and understood is going to be thedifferentiation moving forward.
(51:52):
What's really interesting is I, this iskind of a side thing, but I use AI all the
time in writing and doing a lot of stuff.
I actually treat AI like a human,not for its sake, but for mine.
But for your sake.
Yeah, for my sake.
Please.
Thank you.
I don't wanna, yeah, I don't wannalose my own humanity in dealing with.
The electronic side of things.
And so I know it's dumb to say thankyou and please, and hey, great job.
(52:16):
When I do, when I'm walking, talking toai, it's not for the ai, it's for me.
I don't wanna lose my humanity.
And I think for everybody in thisspace, when you can do that, it will
be your differentiator moving forward.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (52:29):
So you don't, you don't write an email.
Listen, Jack Hall, I'm really mad atthis person and I need you to write
an email and really let them have it.
Dr. JJ Peterson (52:38):
Yeah, no, no.
Lead with love.
Regan Robertson (52:41):
I, I use AI every single day and, uh, and if you're
open to it, we'll have you back as aguest again, because AI was a gigantic
topic that I knew we weren't gonnabe able to cover today, but there.
SEO you know, that's changing rapidly andpeople are asking, uh, AI far and above.
It's kind of like when websitesbecame responsive and mobile driven.
(53:02):
So we knew that that was going to behappening and uh, and StoryBrand has
an ai, uh, that they've launched aswell to help, to help people with this.
But I, I use it every singleday when you know how to use it.
And, and I think, I think I readsomewhere, guys, I'm gonna like.
Validate this and put it in the shownotes, but I remember the scientists
were talking about, uh, AI bots thatwere interacted with positively and
(53:26):
politely ended up outperforming thosethat were not spoken to, and they
were trying to figure out why that is.
So stay tuned on that.
I, I, there's definitely a way though,I think to still stay authentic.
Um, be clear, build trust, and, and AIcan be our tool, not the driver for sure.
(53:46):
In the future of this.
Jj.
Mm-hmm.
It's been amazing tohave you for this hour.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Chad and Maggie, for yourcontributions and being on this with us.
Any, any closing thoughts youhave for our listeners today, jj?
Dr. JJ Peterson (54:01):
I think the, the biggest thing, and this is honestly
what I've, what drew me to StoryBrandand what has kept me in this game now
for, I think 11, 12 years doing this andtalking about some of the same stuff.
Is it.
In any situation you're in, think abouthow can I play the guide in this role?
Because we all play thedifferent, different characters
(54:22):
in, in our day to day, right?
We sometimes are the villain, not onpurpose, but sometimes we play a villain.
Sometimes we play a victim.
Sometimes we are victims of of, of thingsthat people are doing to us and then.
I think our ultimate goal is to moveout of those and move into the hero
space, overcoming our own struggles.
That's what a hero's journey is,is overcoming their own and then
(54:44):
ultimately moving into the guide space.
And in the guide space.
That's when you've taken the thingsthat you have learned and the things
that you have overcome and now turnaround and help others do the same.
That is, I think, not only the most.
Fulfilling way to live.
There's actually a bunch of researcharound that, uh, around the idea of
(55:06):
once you've experienced your own joyand you go back to try to have that
same amount of joy with that sameexperience, you won't experience it
unless you take somebody else with you.
Help watch them experience that joy.
That's the only way to out joy yourselfis to have help somebody else experience
the same joy you experienced earlier.
So there's a lot of,
Dr. Chad Johnson (55:26):
it's a circle of life.
Dr. JJ Peterson (55:29):
Hundred percent is, and so I think that's
just my final word would say.
In all situations when you're feeling likeyou're overwhelmed, when you're feeling
like you don't know what you're doing.
When you're feeling like I can'tget people to do what I want
and to move forward, just stop.
Stop and say, how can I be the guide here?
How can I help other people win?
Because when I help other peoplewin, then then I win as well.
Regan Robertson (55:53):
Thank you so much.
Mic drop.
Yeah, all
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (55:57):
done.
Thank you, jj.
Dr. Chad Johnson (55:58):
Boom.
Well done.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (55:59):
Jj.
You make the world spinin the right direction.
Dr. JJ Peterson (56:03):
Uh, thank you.
That's that's my hope in all of it.
So.
JJ Peterson, it is phenomenal to have you here today
with Chad and Maggie and I, uh, foryou listeners, you know how much I
love StoryBrand and business madesimple and, and how much it's helped
not just change my own life, butchange all of the dentist lives that,
that we have been able to touch.
And you know how giddy I get whenI know we're gonna have a guest
(00:24):
that's gonna share stuff that youcan put right into your practice.
You don't have to buy anything.
You can just.
Listen in, and JJ is really,really gifted at that.
What did you say, Chad?
Dr. Chad Johnson (00:35):
I was like, right.
Regan Robertson (00:39):
Uh, for, for those of you, um, who don't know
who Dr. JJ Peterson is, he is oneof the, I would say the, the, he's
not a founder of StoryBrand, butyou've been a key pinnacle part of
StoryBrand from very, very early on.
You have your PhD in narrative.
Transportation, and that might bea, a confusing word for some folks,
(01:00):
and I'm wondering if you could sharefor us what narrative transportation
is and why were you so passionatethat you went out and got a PhD in
communication with this as a, as a focus?
Dr. JJ Peterson (01:10):
Well, first off, thank you for having me and
thank you for that introduction.
Very, very sweet.
And.
You know, it, it all comes down to, forme, why I really started setting this
is if I'm, I, I'll just be, I don'toften share this part of the story,
so I'll just share it with you guys.
I remember sitting in a movie theaterand watching the movie Armageddon.
(01:31):
You know, that old cheesy movie where Yes.
Regan Robertson (01:33):
Has that Ben Affleck
Dr. JJ Peterson (01:34):
and Ben Affleck go face and a meteor's coming to Earth,
and of course they have to drill down,put in a bomb in the middle and explode
it before it destroys the earth.
Of course, right.
It, it's not, I mean, it, ifyou've seen it, you know, it is
not one of those, uh, it didn't winany awards, let's just say that.
But it was incredibly popularand very fun, especially the
(01:57):
song that came out of it.
You know, it was very emotional andeverything, and I genuinely remember
this was, this was a turning pointfor me in my life, sitting down in
that theater and watching people ballall around me when spoiler alert, uh.
Uh, Bruce Willis gives up his lifefor the earth, basically, and, and
(02:19):
he, he stays behind so everybodyelse can live and people are bawling.
And I was sitting there going.
How can I learn how to tellstories that move in this way,
that move people in this way?
And because I was like,this is not a good movie.
And yet people love it.
And also I loved it.
You know when I say it's not a goodmovie, it's not 'cause I didn't love it.
(02:41):
I just, you know, this ischeesy, it's kind of dumb plot.
It's really, uh, you know, out thereand yet it was a blockbuster and
Dr. Chad Johnson (02:49):
Wow.
And was this 96 ish jj?
90? I think so.
All, all I, all I know was that song if,if you wanted to Slow Dance with Girls
Regan Robertson (02:58):
Aerosmith, right?
Yes.
Oh boy.
So we didn't, if youwanted to slow dance with
Dr. Chad Johnson (03:02):
girls, you ha you were not knocking this movie.
You were like, I Oh yeah.
You know, I like this movie.
Dr. JJ Peterson (03:08):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
But we, I think we can all be honest it.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (03:12):
1998, was it 98?
Dr. JJ Peterson (03:16):
So 98, and so that really inspired me to go back and do
my first really deep dive into story.
And my master's degree actuallywas in Theology in the Arts.
So it was a study of film andtelevision and music and how
to use art to convey truth.
And motivate and move people to action.
Dr. Chad Johnson (03:37):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. JJ Peterson (03:38):
That's where it started and I just started studying the power of
story and through that then kind of began,I worked in Hollywood for a little while.
I did some acting, I did some writing,I did, I directed a documentary.
I. Did a bunch of that kind of workand ultimately chose to use that to
go back to help the next generationof leaders be better communicators.
(03:58):
So I became a professor and I startedteaching communication and leadership and
really how to use the power of story tomove people in positive and engaging ways.
Then I ultimately met Donald Miller,who is the founder of StoryBrand, and he
was just getting started with StoryBrandand I brought him out to speak to my
(04:19):
students about the power of story.
When I was leaving, I had solda reality television show.
And So you sold
Regan Robertson (04:25):
a reality television show?
I did.
Dr. JJ Peterson (04:27):
Never made it to air, but
Regan Robertson (04:28):
Oh, I was gonna say, are you responsible for that jj?
Small
Dr. Chad Johnson (04:31):
fact.
Small fact.
I was the first mainprotagonist on his show.
Just kidding.
Just kidding.
Dr. JJ Peterson (04:39):
And now we have a full circle moment.
I had brought Donald Miller out to,uh, to speak to my students and he's
like, I'm launching this thing whereI combine storytelling principles and
teaching businesses how to clarifytheir message using the power of story.
And I thought, well,yeah, this will be fun.
This will be fun for me to kindof experience another thing.
And I was living in LA at thetime and flew out to Nashville.
(05:02):
And went through the StoryBrand framework,probably the very first workshop that
was ever like public, and I was hooked.
This is what I had been trying todo for 20 years of teaching people
how to use the power of story.
And so I was already in my PhD at thatpoint, and I decided to dive deeper
into narrative theory and narrativeprinciples, and specifically narrative
(05:25):
marketing and a huge piece of.
When you ask the question,why does, why do stories work?
Why do stories work to move us?
Why do they work to change our minds?
Why do they have an impact on us?
What I discovered in my studiesis that really the biggest reason
(05:45):
for impact or influence of astory is narrative transportation.
Narrative transportation iswhat happens when somebody
can see themselves in a story.
So if you've ever experienced, like, uh,you've been in a movie and you've laughed
or cried at Armageddon, or you've jumpedwhen something scary happens, you've
(06:09):
experienced narrative transportation.
Now what the research shows is thatwhen we see ourselves in a story,
we actually experience higherlevels of narrative transportation.
But it's not just about relating tothe character on the screen, which
is a piece of it, but it's aboutthe story actually Makes sense.
(06:29):
And allows us to enter into it because ithas what's called fidelity and coherency.
It sticks together and makes sense.
It follows the rules.
So the better the story, the betterthat they follow the rules, the more
narrative transportation we experience.
But here's where it gets fun is thehigher levels of narrative transportation
that you experience in a story, themore influence that story has on your
(06:53):
thoughts and actions, it act actuallychanges the way we think and act.
Now what I kind of took that, andthere's already some study around
this, but what I kind of then wentto the next level with was the idea
of how does this work in marketing.
Everybody says you needto tell a good story.
You know stories that are a buzzwordwhen it comes to business and marketing,
(07:15):
but most people really are tellingthe wrong stories, and so I wanted
to discover what it looked like tocreate narrative transportation.
In marketing and the research showsthat people can experience narrative
transportation through websites,through emails, through sales
pitches, and even like social media.
As little as a tweet, people can actuallyexperience narrative transportation.
(07:40):
So I wanted to then bea part of something.
So that's kind of the long way allgoing, all the way back to Armageddon.
Dr. Chad Johnson (07:46):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. JJ Peterson (07:47):
Sitting in there going Armageddon can move people.
Why can't I, I mean, genu, that was kindof like one of those things of like,
why don't I have that power to, in apositive way if I'm influencing like
students and I'm challenging them to livebetter lives and to love people better.
At the time even, I was working for anonprofit that built homes in Mexico.
(08:07):
So my job was to be, I was the fundraiserand the communications manager for this
nonprofit that literally was savingpeople's lives, and I couldn't figure
out how to get people involved in it.
I couldn't figure out how totell a good story, and I'm
like, and Armageddon does it?
Come on.
So that's really, that was the start.
(08:28):
And what.
We've discovered over the years isthat when you tell a good story that
people can see themselves in, they willexperience narrative transportation,
and that story will then have higherinfluence on their thoughts and actions.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (08:45):
Wow.
Can we get.
Sorry.
No, go ahead.
Can we, can you give us ideas of companiesthat have used EE excellent, um, narrative
transportation in their marketingcampaigns so that we can kind of start
to picture exactly how that's transpiredand the things that we see and use?
Dr. JJ Peterson (09:06):
Yeah.
On a very high level, Nike.
Right.
Nike is not, we have the best shoes.
Nike is just do it.
It's about the person wearing theshoes and their ability to step
into their own athleticness, right?
Most of us are not MichaelJordan on the basketball court,
but a lot of us wear Nike.
(09:26):
I'm wearing Nike's right now and if youcould see a full screen of me, you would
really see that I'm not a professionalathlete, uh, but I wear them for comfort.
For look, but also because whenyou put on that kind of tennis
shoe, there's an A level where youfeel a little bit more athletic.
You can go walking a little easier,you can exercise a little bit easier.
(09:46):
Nike says, just do it.
Apple.
Apple, when you look at mostof apple's ads, especially from
their successful campaigns.
They have very little, if not zeroto do with the actual product.
Mm-hmm.
They have to do with you are a creator.
Mm-hmm.
You are a misunderstood, you are, havethe ability to change the world and
then they show somebody, you know, inIceland, you know, going up huge rocks,
(10:11):
but they're taking a picture with an iPad.
Like it has nothing to dowith the product itself.
They're not making the productof the hero of the story.
They're making their customerthe hero of the story.
Mm-hmm.
And that anytime you see that inadvertising, when people can identify
with that, you know, it's why itwith allergy commercials, you always
(10:32):
see people sneezing on the screen.
Dr. Chad Johnson (10:35):
Oh yeah.
Dr. JJ Peterson (10:36):
That it's very simple.
But what that is, is if I'm sneezingbecause of allergies, I see myself
in that sneezer right on the screen.
So anytime there is a reflection of me.
And what I'm struggling with or what I'maspiring to in any kind of advertising
that creates narrative transportation, I.
Regan Robertson (11:00):
Jj Well, thanks
Dr. Chad Johnson (11:00):
for coming on our show today because,
Regan Robertson (11:05):
well, my mind keeps going, my mind keeps wrapping around,
like around Disney, and I remember adocumentary I watched where it was the, it
was the early days of Walt Disney and him.
Pushing so hard to get, I think itwas Snow White to the surface and
actually getting on the big screen.
And if I recall correctly, you had bigfinancial backers that had to do that.
And, and from your standpoint, wasit I in part yes to, to celebrate
(11:28):
animation and, and celebrate fantasy,but was the underlying feature really
almost, and maybe an intentional orunintentional experiment to see if you
could use narrative transportation.
In a delivery mechanismthat's completely fake.
Everyone knows it's completely fake,and you're still able to accomplish
that influence that you are looking for.
Dr. JJ Peterson (11:50):
Yes.
I, I mean, I don't know that there wasthat level of thought maybe put into
it, but I would say that that in orderto be able to do that in a different
mode, right, so the typical mode, youknow, started with like silent films
and then colored films and then, youknow, animation kind of like this,
the evolution, even Pixar, right?
Like Pixar taking, moving into Toy Storywas a leap from traditional animation.
(12:16):
And they wondered, can westill connect with people?
What made Snow White and what made, uh,you know, toy Story work was the story.
It was grounded in a compelling narrativethat was featuring an underdog, and
people can see ourselves in the underdogthat really, so what, what I teach
(12:36):
people is the StoryBrand framework andthe StoryBrand framework really is.
Based on storytelling principlesthat are in every story.
And when you follow these, you achievenarrative transportation and you achieve
fidelity and coherency in the story.
And those seven elements, basically justkind of break it down real quick, are that
(12:58):
every good story has seven things in it.
A character who wants something, whoencounters a problem, who meets a guide,
somebody that helps them win the day.
That guide gives 'em a plan.
There's a call to action, and thenwe know the stakes in the story,
which is either a happy endingsuccess or a negative ending failure.
(13:20):
The, that's the most basic plot of everymovie, every story you've ever seen.
Now going back to narrativetransportation and kind of your
question even about Snow White.
When writers can get the firsttwo elements of the storytelling
principle correct or make thempowerful, that is when the narrative
(13:42):
transportation experience happens.
You have to establish somethingthat a character wants.
Then.
You have to hook people inthe story with a problem that
that character's experiencing.
If the character is not experiencing aproblem, we don't connect with that story
because we have problems in our real life.
(14:03):
So we have to know and understandwhy the story is interesting
and why we connect to it.
So when you take a, any kind of movie,even if it's Snow White, it's an animated
character who, it's an animated character.
It's in a fantasy world with.
You know, witches and queens andanimals that dress you and you
know, all that different stuff.
(14:25):
However, it's really about a girlwho feels that she doesn't belong and
is outcast because she's a threat.
How many of us have ever felt thatkind of something we, yes, we don't
have animals that are dressing us,but we can connect to the problems
that she's experiencing, that we'rebeing oppressed by somebody in power.
(14:48):
The queen is trying to kill her, right?
That is an oppression ofsomebody above you trying to
control you or, or put you down.
Well, who of us have not experiencedthat at some point in our life?
So when the writers can actuallyconnect with that in the very
beginning of a story, establish whothis character is and what she wants.
(15:08):
And then hook us with herproblem that we can relate to.
Doesn't matter if she'sfemale and I'm male.
Doesn't matter if she's a cartoonand I'm real, I connect with that.
And where that now, I mean we've beentalking about movies and everything,
but where that actually then comes intoplay when it comes to a business, I.
Is most companies, when they go into try to tell quote unquote their
(15:31):
story, they begin to talk about theirproducts or their services that they
offer, and they try to say they, theyget a little bit insecure and try to
go, well, we're, how do I say that I'mthe best without saying I'm the best?
Right.
That's kind of like themarketer's conundrum.
It's like, how do I market myselfwithout bragging about myself?
Dr. Chad Johnson (15:50):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. JJ Peterson (15:51):
The question that you're asking there is what?
How do I tell my story?
Well, the reality is I think we needto be flipping that narrative about
marketing and instead of making usthe hero of the story, we need to make
our customers the hero of the story.
Sure.
So all of our marketing really shouldbe identifying what is it that our
customer wants, and talking aboutthat, what are our problems that
(16:13):
our customers are experiencing, andhow do we talk about how we solve?
Their problems.
If you can start with those two principlesin your marketing, you're going to be
stronger and further ahead than almosteverybody else because I think everybody
is, a lot of people are doing this wrong.
Regan Robertson (16:28):
You know, uh, listeners, you could Google, go to
YouTube and Google the farmer's dog.
Company and take a lookat their advertising.
They do a phenomenal job at this.
And then I want you, I'm givingyou homework listeners, go look at
your own marketing and also maybeyour competition and see if they've
got videos on YouTube as well.
Because one of the ways, JJ, thatI've seen this, where this narrative
(16:50):
transportation can work reallywell for dentists or other business
owners is these testimonial videos.
Having them start off withwhat that problem was.
And you're right, it doesn't matter if.
If they're a male or a female, ifthey're old or they're young, if they,
if they resonate with the problem,they connect with it immediately.
Dr. JJ Peterson (17:09):
Exactly.
That is one of the, you wannaknow how to do this the fastest
way in some of your marketing.
Of course.
No, no.
You're, I wanna know JJand goodnight everybody.
We talked about Armageddonand now we're out.
Um.
One of the thing, one, research showsthat one of the fastest ways to get people
to gain trust is through testimonies.
(17:29):
It is actually the number one influenceron why people choose to buy from
a specifically a personal brand.
So if you have, if you are trying to.
To you are a dentist, whicheven if you're a part of a
group, you are a personal brand.
People are coming to a personal dentist
Regan Robertson (17:48):
a hundred percent.
Dr. JJ Peterson (17:49):
And so the fastest way to gain trust and to the biggest influence
on buying decisions is testimonies.
Now, what a lot of people do isthey put up their Google reviews,
which are, you know, five stars.
That's wonderful.
Or they put up these.
She was great to work with.
My kids love her.
He is fantastic.
(18:10):
That's that right there does notcreate narrative transportation.
You have to do exactly whatyou were talking about.
You have to find testimoniesthat start with the problem they
were experiencing that othercustomers have that you can solve.
So if they said, I broke te, I brokemy teeth in a bike accident 10 years
(18:31):
ago and never got it fixed because itjust felt like it was too expensive
and too hard, I went into Dr.
Smith.
Not only did they take care of itin one afternoon, but I was able to
walk out with a smile that I love.
Problem solution success.
That's a short story.
So we, it doesn't even have tobe as long as I just said it, but
(18:55):
the testimonies you're looking forto go on your website, to go in
videos, to put on social media, I.
They can't just say they're fantastic.
They have to say, here was my problem.
When we start with a problem, evenif it's not the problem that I
currently have, I can see myself inthat story with my own problems, and I
actually start leaning into the trustthat's being created in that moment.
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:22):
Hmm.
Regan Robertson (19:23):
If you guys want something tangible listeners, uh,
go to clarksburg dental center.com.
They're live right now and,and scroll through there.
Now, I will say that, say it particularly.
Say again?
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:33):
Say it again.
Regan Robertson (19:33):
Clarksburg dental center.com.
And is it BURG
Dr. Chad Johnson (19:36):
or BERG?
It
Regan Robertson (19:37):
is BURG.
It doesn't state a problem.
That would, I would, Iwould kind of circle it.
However, it's a hundred percent focused.
I'm seeing right away on, on me.
One of my needs are, and I noticeeven in the Hiran it says we speak
multiple language in our practice,English, Spanish, Vietnamese, and
Chinese, Mandarin, and Cantonese.
(20:00):
I'm, I'm seeing right.
I'm seeing myself in that,right in that moment.
So listeners, I promised you thiswas gonna be chockfull of stuff
that you can look and see and feel.
Uh, and that's a good example of whatyou're talking about, JJ and physically.
Um, making sure that people feelseen and, and Maggie talks a lot in
her own practice about being, feel,feeling seen and feeling heard.
(20:20):
Um, and how important that is.
Let's maybe switch gears here and,and nerd out with me because we've
had something recently happen, uh, in,in pop culture with the recent flight
up to space with, uh, that was hostedby Blue Origin Jeff Bezos company.
And, uh, the question that I, that I posedand have been thinking about for days is
(20:41):
this marketing that's failed to launch.
Or was it maybe carefullycurated for a luxury niche?
Niche?
Chad?
Dr. Chad Johnson (20:51):
Oh, please, let's just do niche for a while.
I just can't tolerate the niche stuff.
Regan Robertson (20:57):
Was it, was it really focused towards really wealthy women?
And that was the whole entireintent and the polarization of it
all happening was, was by design.
Um, I tend to be a bit of an overthinker.
I, I don't think that's a bad thing,but just like, you know, snow white,
maybe I, you know, think a littledeeply of what actually was happening.
But, uh, but JJ I know you've got some,some thoughts on this and I. Listeners.
(21:20):
I do special, like I've done a coupleof special coaching sessions with JJ
and he has taken productive dentistacademies, marketing, and looked at it
and I've been like, what is missing?
What is hitting what is not?
And you are like a detective, jj,you really did earn your PhD. You're
really good at breaking it downlike an engineer and saying, okay,
this hit right, this is missing.
(21:41):
So you are.
Are an expert at that StoryBrandmethodology and framework.
And so I'm curious, what wereyour thoughts about the the
Blue Origin launch and the.
The buzz that it has created post-launch?
Yeah.
Dr. JJ Peterson (21:57):
You know, I think one of my, I'm not gonna call it fatal
flaws, but uh, it's one of my valuesis I always assume positive intent.
So I always start fromassuming positive intent.
And I think in the beginning theygenuinely were trying to highlight.
Women in space and women in, youknow, the, the, at NASA and all,
(22:19):
you know, empowering females.
I do think that that was wherethey really started from.
I just think they missed the mark.
Now I. If they were genuinely about inthe next two years in particular, we're
gonna sell flights to space to rich women.
They probably did do that.
I don't think that was theirintent with this campaign.
(22:39):
However, I think it was a PR move.
I think they were genuinely trying to doa PR move that brought goodwill towards.
Blue Origin, you know, like all of that.
I just think that was the intent and theway they thought they would do that is
they would connect it with women and thesciences and opportunities for women.
(23:00):
However,
I think they missed the markin a pretty big way, and it's
coming back to everything thatwe're just talking about is.
People could not see themselves inthe story, and that was Blue Origin's
fault because I think they had a lotof opportunity to make that happen.
(23:21):
They focused a bit on celebrity andexclusivity and the glam of it all,
and they wanted it to be aspirationalin that we could all, even men
could feel like maybe someday.
I could be in space becauseKaty Perry got to go to space.
So they wanted it to feelaspirational and emotional.
You know, even Ka Perry singing the whata Wonderful world song and everything.
(23:45):
I mean, that, that was supposed tomake an emotional connection, whether
it was, you know, scripted or not.
That's what that was supposed tobe, and it just didn't happen.
Where they easily could have shifted thenarrative is they still could have had
Ka Perry on the flight, but instead ofKa Perry talking about Katy Perry, Katie
(24:06):
Perry could have been talking about theteacher that they took on the flight
who is a STEM teacher, who encouragesyoung women to get into the sciences.
So Katie Perry could have beenlike, the reason I am here.
Is to point to this person that'sbeside me because she's the hero.
Katie Perry made herself the hero.
Gail, well, blue Origin, but
Regan Robertson (24:28):
she even said, jj, this isn't about me.
She said that a couple of times,but then kept talking about her.
Dr. Chad Johnson (24:34):
Correct.
Dr. JJ Peterson (24:36):
Yeah, all.
All they needed to do was they couldhave had a couple, a couple celebrities,
a couple people on there, but theyreally needed to have somebody who
had always dreamed and worked togo to space, but maybe because they
got in a car accident or had asthma.
Yes.
They couldn't go to space,and then Katie Perry could sit
there and go, this is a PhD.
(24:57):
In the sciences who's been working herwhole life and didn't have the advantage.
What Blue Origin actually allows is everyperson who wants to go to space to be able
to go to space, she's coming to space withus versus, oh, it was so emotional for me.
I was, you know, I was moved.
Your per my perspectiveis forever changed.
No.
We couldn't connect with the celebrityand the luxury and the unattainability, so
(25:19):
we couldn't see ourselves in that story.
So we didn't experiencenarrative transportation.
And then worse than that, it actuallybecame across as tone deaf when
a lot of people in the governmentare losing their jobs right now.
When a lot of people are feelingthe impact of the economic
shifts right now, they, theythat this is a tone deaf moment.
(25:42):
To have that kind of aspirational thing
Dr. Chad Johnson (25:45):
lavish now
Dr. JJ Peterson (25:46):
and going, you're gonna be rich and you can do that.
No, people aren't feeling that right now.
They can't, they, you know, very recently,especially, they couldn't afford eggs.
How are you that, how doI feel connected at all?
To this group of women whoI can't be a part of that I
will never go to space with.
Dr. Chad Johnson (26:02):
All right, so softball pitch question, is it recoverable for
a company to do something disastrouslike this and then change the narrative?
Dr. JJ Peterson (26:16):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, you can.
You can e you can change it.
And when you're that big too, I mean,the reality is Apple, I mean, a few
years ago, Pepsi had a huge misstepwhen they cast Kendall, Kendall
Jenner in an A. Oh, that's right.
I dunno if you remember that ad. I do.
It was a very tone deaf ad whereKendall Jenner essentially in the
(26:36):
ad, solved racism with a Pepsi, andit was just like, oh no, no, Pepsi.
You can't do that.
A Kardashian model, the richest modelin the world who's a Kardashian breaking
up, you know, black Lives Matterrallies, you know, it's just like,
no, no Pepsi, no, that was a misstep.
They were in the news.
(26:57):
They got a whole bunchof fi uh, pushback on it.
They're fine.
The, the groups like that have hugePR agencies can spend millions on,
on advertising and on differentcampaigns, and they can turn the
narrative around pretty quickly.
For those of us who are not in thatbillion dollar brand space, we actually
(27:19):
do have to be more careful about someof those bigger missteps where it comes
across in just a very small misstep.
In the way that we do marketing.
It's not as egregious, I wouldsay, as some of these big moves.
But for instance, when you are creating,let's go back to the testimony thing.
A lot of people love to grab testimoniesof the most extreme cases that they've
(27:43):
solved with their product or service.
So if you take.
For instance, showing that you asa dentist, as a high up in your
marketing, went to another countryand worked with children with, I
mean, this is be deeper like cleftpalate, but you actually, and you know.
We basically did these extrememakeovers, home makeovers, uh,
(28:07):
mouth makeovers with patients.
And you used that alone as yourprimary example of testimonies.
Dr. Chad Johnson (28:14):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. JJ Peterson (28:15):
I don't see myself in that.
The thing I see myself in is I. Novocainedoesn't work on me The way that it works
on other people, and that's actuallytrue, is that every time I go in the,
they the, they have to give me multipleshots over and over and over again in
order to actually work on my teeth.
'cause I feel everything and at somepoints I just let 'em do it and it
(28:38):
just hurts so I can get out of there.
That's mine.
I'm not dealing with this, you know,so I'm scared of the pain of dentistry.
I'm scared of my mouth being like,you know, getting cuts on it.
When I walk in there, I, you know, Iwant to be, they make sure like what
we are talking about with Maggie, likethat I'm heard that actually people
listen to me when I say I'm in pain.
(28:59):
I mean, I'm in pain and Iwanna, those are my problems.
So these extreme makeovers ofshowing like, oh, this is how bad
this person's teeth were, and thennow this is how good they are,
that's actually not gonna connectwith the majority of your audience.
You need to find testimonies.
You need to find, uh, uh, imagesthat are more reflective of the
(29:22):
type of patients that you regularlysee or regularly wanna have.
Regan Robertson (29:27):
Man, we, we talk about this a lot, like internally
at PDA, we have our own marketingagency and, and there are doctors
that wanna specialize in that.
Like they, they call 'em trainwreck dentistry sometimes,
like the mouth is just a mess.
They wanna do full mouth rehab andthere is a specific strategy to
reach out, attract those peoplein a, but it is a targeted effort.
(29:50):
It's not the shotgun blast marketing.
It's a totally different strategy.
Uh.
What's interesting though about whatyou just said with that too, though,
even that a problem like Novocainenot reacting with you the same way.
That could be a full mouth rehab,or it could be a single tooth,
it could be something small.
That's something that everybody acrossthe board could potentially relate to.
Dr. JJ Peterson (30:11):
Yeah.
And you know, and, and like you said,I'm not saying don't ever do those
full mouth rehabs, especially ifthat's the type of patient that you
want, then 100% to show, hey, we cando these extreme difference, you know?
But if you're a, uh, uh, you focus infamily dentistry or children's dentistry,
you know, pediatric dentistry, then.
(30:33):
Might be a little bit different,you know, in those sense.
Another thing, here's,here's another thing.
In the StoryBrand principle of allowhow you allow yourself to be positioned
as somebody who can help your customerwith their problems in a story I. The
hero always gets into a problem andthey can't overcome the problem on their
(30:54):
own, and so they have to find a guide.
So in movies, this is Obi one Kenobi.
This is Yoda.
This is Dumbledore.
This is Aslan.
You know, this is.
All of those characters who comealongside the hero and help them win.
That's the role in your marketing thatyou need to play for your customer.
You are not the hero of the story.
(31:16):
Your customer's the hero.
You are the guide.
So the way you position whatyourself with a guide to your
customer's, uh, to your customer'shero is with empathy and authority.
So you have to understand yourcustomer's problems and be able to
speak to them by saying, we understandgoing to the dentist is scary.
(31:37):
We understand that a lot of timespeople struggle with the medical field
because they don't feel listened to.
So don't ignore those questions or try tohide from them, honor them, speak to them.
When some, if a doctor says thatto me and says, look, I get it.
So many times when I have gone to thedoctor, they have ignored the things
(31:58):
that have, uh, that I've asked of them.
If somebody says that, I go, yes,that is, yes, a hundred percent.
And so you say that, and then they go,they start to trust you as their guide,
but then you have to lean into authority.
So you first lead with empathyand then lean into authority.
(32:18):
Authority is proof that you havesolved this problem for other people.
Mm-hmm.
So that's where the testimonies come in.
The years you've been in practice, thenumber of patients that you've served.
The specialties, the awardsyou've won, that's all authority.
That's why, you know, dentists have theirdegrees often on the wall is because
(32:38):
it's just showing, hey, I'm legitimate.
And especially if you've graduated from aprestigious school, it's a great school.
That's all that is there for.
It's for nothing else but to say youhave some authority, but that empathy
and authority has to go together.
If they don't go together.
If I can't see that you understandmy problems and feel them
(32:59):
with me, I don't see myself.
You are not in my story.
That's actually what it is.
It's not even that I can'tsee myself in your story, it's
that you are not in my story.
The quick, the quickest example Igive of this is like if I'm gonna go
to a gym and I say, go to a gym, andI'm looking for a trainer and I say,
Hey, I'm, I'm here to lose 30 pounds.
And the first trainergoes, oh my gosh, me too.
(33:23):
That's not my trainer.
Not my trainer.
That's empathy, but no authority.
If I go back to that gym and say,I'm looking for a trainer, and the
next trainer lifts up his shirt andshows me a six pack and says, well,
you gotta quit being lazy, fatty.
There's some authority there 'causewe've got the six pack, but no empathy.
If I go back, I don't know why I'mgoing back to this gym a third time,
(33:44):
but if I go back a third time and sayI'm looking for a trainer and I say,
you know, and I'm looking to lose 30pounds, and the trainer comes up and
says, look, I used to be 30 poundsoverweight myself, but over a couple
months I was able to take it off and nowI've actually been able to take help.
A hundred other people do the same thing.
That's now my guide.
(34:06):
They have the empathy, they understandme, but they also have authority.
So in your marketing, when you canjust make a simple statement like, you
know Maggie, I'm assuming, 'cause whatwe heard earlier that you say things
like, I understand that it sometimesyou don't feel heard at the dentist.
If you ever just say that.
All that does is let peopledrop their shoulders and start
(34:26):
to go, oh, she's my guide.
And then the fact that you have adiploma and the fact that you have a,
probably a brick building and the factthat you, you know, have staff and the
fact that you have testimony shows youknow what you're doing, but just that
first sentence says, oh, she gets me.
And I start to see you nowin my story as my guide.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (34:48):
Let me ask you something along those lines.
If somebody comes in with a six pack andI say to them, wait of beer or abs, what
kind of six pack are we talking about?
Let's
Dr. Chad Johnson (35:00):
just say their name is Chad, you know?
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (35:03):
So, um.
This won't apply to you entirely.
Just that first part.
So if the six pack guy comes in, right?
Yeah.
And, and I say, I knowsometimes you don't feel heard.
Yeah.
He and I are kind of out of alignment.
Dr. Chad Johnson (35:20):
Yes.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (35:21):
And then me saying, I sometimes you don't feel heard.
That doesn't work in my favor anymore.
A
Dr. JJ Peterson (35:29):
hundred percent because you're not actually
telling their story, right?
That's where they can'tsee themselves in you.
So where it comes to, say, your overallmarketing, like your website or something
like that, that is really meant to bethis kind of shotgun effect of trying
to get as many people as possible.
The story that you're looking forto invite customers into is the one
(35:52):
that most relates to the type ofcustomers that you want to work with.
So if, if you want to work with.
Let's say people who want only like thewhite veneer, best looking teeth that
gets 'em ahead and puts 'em on a magazine.
Then you say that it has nothing todo with being, you know, the fact
that Novocaine doesn't work on you.
(36:13):
It, you know, you kind of goafter that broad audience.
If you want to go after the people,you want to be a full mouth makeover.
Then you speak to the problems andthe empathy to the problems of people
who need a full mouth makeover.
Same with children.
If you're a pediatric dentist,you speak to the parents and
what they're experiencing.
'cause kids aren'tshopping, the parents are.
(36:33):
So what fears do parents have?
And how do you speakto that in the parent?
So yes, you're going to, but likefor that, with pediatric dentistry,
if you say that about parents,you're missing everybody else
in the world who's not a parent.
That's okay because you're actuallyniching, niching down to what, uh,
Dr. Chad Johnson (36:54):
thank you, the
Dr. JJ Peterson (36:55):
audience you want.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (36:58):
Uh, but this goes, it goes beyond marketing.
It also goes to communication skills.
A
Dr. JJ Peterson (37:02):
hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
If you're leading your team,right, you're doing the same thing.
You try to lead with empathy.
I would argue it the best way toactually be able to influence and
move people to action is as theleader, lead with empathy, go.
What are they trying to experience?
Like even, even if I'm workingwith say, my own employees, I start
(37:25):
with, well, what do they want?
And what's the problem they'reexperiencing and how do I empathize
in this moment with that problemand yet lean into my authority to
say, look, we're gonna go this way.
And ultimately have a plan for them.
Give them very clear directions of wherewe're headed, even as a communicator.
That is the way that you I, I mean,when you, when I talk to anybody,
(37:48):
when I talk to my 8-year-old.
I, it, you know, there's a lotof times that I wanna come in
and Lord over, you know, becauseI'm just like, I don't have time.
You're eating your dinner.
Like, like, let's just, wedon't have time for this.
We we're not having this argument.
Eat, you know, we all, which
Regan Robertson (38:04):
always makes it worse, at least in my household.
The more I push, themore resistance I get.
I never get what I want that way, butI, I'm definitely, it's what I'm, what
I'm about or what timeframe I have.
I'm there.
Dr. JJ Peterson (38:14):
But if I can pause for two minutes and go, look, I get it buddy.
I get it.
It's not my favorite either, butyou know, and then I go, but you
want, you, you told me yesterdayyou wanna have strong muscles.
The protein in the chicken that you'reeating is gonna give you strong muscles.
So here's what we're gonna do.
You're gonna take three more bites, youknow, like, so I give a very, like, I
(38:34):
lean into, I don't back down, but if Ican start with, you know what, yeah, we've
had chicken twice this week and it's notmy favorite either, but this is what,
you know, you told me you wanted to have.
Of strong muscles and this is whathelps you have strong muscles.
Regan Robertson (38:46):
We, we just, so in that you just, were you spying on me?
'cause we just had chicken lastnight and I just, uh, had quite a
long conversation with my son aboutthe importance of chicken and I did
not say you want strong muscles andthat probably would've been helpful.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (38:59):
So I think you just created like, um, narrative, um.
Transportation.
Transportation with your kid by creatinga connection with him, by reducing
argument against the message andmaking abstract ideas real with him.
I mean like all in one sentence there.
Dr. JJ Peterson (39:17):
Yeah.
And when you position yourself, no matterwhat, whether it's your marketing or
whether it's leadership, communication,if you think of yourself as the
guide instead of the hero, it helpsto reframe the entire conversation.
Heroes in stories are actually weak.
We, we don't think about that.
We always wanna kind of be the hero of thestory 'cause they're the main attraction.
(39:38):
But here, I, I would all, I wouldchallenge anybody listening in the
next movie that you're wa watching,especially if it's an action adventure,
you know, anything like that.
And at any point in the movie, pausethe movie and just see if that moment,
if you would say, is the hero happyand having a good time right now.
Nine times outta 10, the answer is no.
(39:59):
They're getting beat up.
They've been left behind, they failed.
They're like being a hero.
They're up and down the whole thing.
They don't actually become the hero andtransform until the end of the story.
The guide is the strongestcharacter in the story.
Because the guide is steady, theguide doesn't need to prove anything.
So OB one Kenobi, Yoda.
(40:20):
Aslan, Dumbledore, um, you know, Hamit,even in Hunger Games, they've already won.
They don't need to prove anything.
They don't transform.
They don't change, and they don'thave to make the story about them.
So when we as leaders or as businessowners try to make the story about
us and how great we are and try toconvince everybody what we're actually
(40:41):
coming across as insecure and weak.
When we come across as the guide wherewe actually lead with empathy and we
step into our authority without apology,and we work to help our hero, the
people that we're serving win, that'sthe strongest character in the story.
I.
Regan Robertson (41:01):
I would love to talk about how there are some really unique
ways to use StoryBrand, uh, that sitsoutside of websites and videos and
social media that, that I personallyhave applied or I've seen it applied.
That's quite brilliant.
And, and doctors, uh, listening, Ihave some hard data for you as well.
(41:21):
So, uh, one you can coach executives.
To this, you can, even if you're anoffice manager listening right now, you
can influence your own, uh, dentist,who's the business owner, if you can
walk them through this process yourself.
I do it all the time.
Uh, if I'm in executive meetings andwe're preparing for a presentation,
I ask myself, um, I remind myselfwho is the audience, and then when
(41:44):
I'm talking to the leaders, I say.
Put yourself in their shoes.
What are they going towanna get out of this?
What is in it for them?
And it's like this anchor point or atrigger, or whatever you wanna call it.
It's a, it's a way to spin it and get themout of their head so they have something
they want to achieve as an objective.
And, and it's like Schrodinger's cat.
You actually can't focus on what you want.
(42:06):
You have to focus around it.
Bruce Baird says this all the time for.
Productivity.
You know, you can't justfocus on getting dental sales.
You have to actually focus ontaking great care of the patients.
Then you end up gettingwhat you actually want.
And I did this yesterdaywith a super good friend.
He's been out of work for like sixmonths or so, and he was getting down
to the wire and didn't know what to do.
(42:28):
And so I encouraged him to tella story that's mission based.
What is actually the mission.
Yes, you need a job.
You have to have a job,you gotta have income.
That's.
That's what people focus on.
But what is it really about?
Actually.
It's about being able to, tostay in the same location.
It's about providing a good life.
For others, it's, it'sabout serving the community.
(42:50):
And that coaching, which wascompletely StoryBrand driven,
created an outreach that he crafted.
And as of this morning, has been nonstopon the phone since yesterday night.
Into today with offers andpeople willing to help.
And I was just, I was reallyemotionally moved by that because
we can use StoryBrand in ways thatsit outside of the traditional
(43:14):
marketing methods, if you will.
The other thing, this is whereI promised you guys data, uh.
Through my own story and, and throughwhat we know about dental practices or
any business is that customer experiencesa journey with many intersections.
So JJ you talk a lot about buildingtrust and I think authenticity gives like
(43:35):
that, uh, it's like subconscious almost.
It gives this truth to themessage that you speak.
So empathy and authority is great.
You can't.
Disingenuously like offer empathyif you don't really care about it.
So a lot of people have tobe sitting in those shoes.
So like Maggie for example, somebodycomes in with a six pack, okay, you
(43:57):
don't wanna meet them with the ICU andyou feel unseen, but you certainly could
with genuine care and authenticity, say.
I know what it feels like to, to beseen, to be on the stage, to have my body
be part of my work and viewed as such.
So you could connect with them on that.
They actually are seen and thengive your authority around that.
(44:20):
So I've gone through and mapped out.
All 21 steps that a patient takes fromwhen they first hear about you, be it from
another patient or a website search, SEO,whatever it is, every little intersection.
And we started applying StoryBrandmethodology to those interactions.
I mean, and I'm talking down tolike in the restroom, what is in the
(44:41):
restroom of, of business, uh, and.
So we've done that for reengagement.
So, uh, a a dentist for example,will treatment plan and present
that treatment to a patient.
And they, what they dowith it is up to them.
They're either gonna scheduleor they're gonna not schedule,
or they're gonna hesitate.
And so many businesses, theyleave it at that, it doesn't
(45:02):
even have to be dentistry.
So many businesses will pitch somethingand then they just let it fall flat.
So, uh, so.
I'm excited about this because usingStoryBrand and crafting one text
message, one simple text message thathas climactic foreshadowing, I've been
promised not to give you the exactformula, but it uses these methodologies.
(45:25):
We've been able to see enormousgains and that takes very little
effort on the practice itself.
The business itself, marketing can feel soheavy at times and like it's a big lift.
One text message can equate to over$300,000 in treatment scheduling.
Dr. Chad Johnson (45:41):
Mm-hmm.
Regan Robertson (45:44):
That's crazy.
It's exciting.
It's, it's, it's exciting.
It's exciting because I thinkI'm, I, I'll speak for myself.
I get exhausted.
It's a lot of, it's a lot ofrunning around these days.
It's a lot of promotions.
Um, uh, you know, when I thinkabout being a dental practice
owner, there's always competition.
You're never in a town where there'sno other competition and, and everyone
(46:08):
has, has access to marketing and, and.
Prices are getting more expensive.
You know, the digital clickthroughsare expensive, so it can feel
a little choking at times.
And you have to be a business owner,you have to be a great clinician,
you have to be a great boss.
Um, basically you have to bean expert in a lot of areas
that you shouldn't have to be.
And I love, to your point, jj,um, that everyone deserves a guide
(46:28):
that that can help them get there.
And I don't know, uh, how, I knowthat you hear all sorts of businesses.
Are there other creative ways that you'veseen StoryBrand used that surprise you?
Dr. JJ Peterson (46:41):
Um, one, I mean, I don't know about a, a very simple way is the
way that you do your bios on your website.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (46:48):
Hmm.
I wanna know more.
Dr. JJ Peterson (46:49):
Yeah.
So instead of, again,making the story about you.
You make it about your customers.
So instead of saying like, oh yeah, Ilove this ice cream and this is how many
kids I have, and this is where I went toschool, you start with something along
the lines about what got you passionateabout getting into dentistry, and
that should be to solve their problem.
Or if you're in pediatric dentistry,you say, as a mother myself.
(47:12):
Or as a parent myself, I understandand you, so you're really telling your
customer's story in your bio, not yours.
You put in facts about yourself,but the only reason you're doing
that is show empathy and authorityto solve your customer's problems.
So speaking into those ways and, andeven when, you know, when somebody comes
(47:32):
in and they're scared and the firstperson they see is the receptionist.
Uh, I'll be honest, many timeswhen I go in to a medical office,
whether it's a doctor or dentist,I'm usually nervous, right?
This is not, especially if I'mthere for the first time, I.
And if I walk up to that counterand they are all talking to each
(47:54):
other, it's very, and then just kindof go, we'll, we will be right with
you, and you feel very dismissed.
Or they throw a, they're on thephone and they throw a clipboard
at you that tells me you feel likeyou're more important than me.
So automatically they've madethemselves the hero in the story
and instead being able to say.
(48:15):
Is this your first time?
Oh my gosh.
Come on in.
You know, I know a lot of patientswho come in here are nervous,
but we are here to serve you.
That's it.
Just by saying, you don't evenhave to say you are nervous.
A lot of patients when theyfirst walk in are always nervous.
We get that, but we, we've beenaround for a long time and we, we
love, in fact, here have a, havesome water that just right there.
(48:37):
Mm-hmm.
Versus like, Hey, fill thisout while I'm on the phone.
If somebody does that to me now, Ihonestly, I, I am like, I don't know
that I want to be here anymore and Idon't care how good they're, how great
three views are about their services.
What that's telling me is you thinkyou're very important and I am
not going to feel very importanthere, even at the very front desk.
(48:58):
So it's an entire mindset shiftof even everybody on your staff of
saying, we are the guides and guides.
Allow people and help peoplefeel seen, heard, and understood.
If we're the hero of thestory, then I'm busy.
I'm overwhelmed.
I don't know if I can deal with this.
That's the mentality, and everybodywho's walking in that door feels it.
(49:21):
But if I'm the guide.
I can say I understand how a busyand wildlife can be and taking
time out to come into the dentist.
Like when I have to go take my kids tothe dentist, which I've had to recently,
Dr. Chad Johnson (49:31):
we have to
Dr. JJ Peterson (49:32):
get 'em outta school or we have to schedule ours
at seven in the morning so that wecan be back to get 'em at school.
You know?
And it's like, it'sinsane and it's, Hey, I'm
Regan Robertson (49:41):
glad the dentist is open at seven.
That's showing that they care.
That's nice.
I like that.
Dr. JJ Peterson (49:45):
So we have, we, uh, we have, uh.
Appointments at 7:00 AM for theadults because yeah, absolutely.
We can get back and get thekids and get 'em to school.
So that's, that is nice.
But it also, any new placeI walk into is terrifying.
So just little things like that of like,how are people greeted when they walk in?
How, what are the bioslike on the website?
(50:07):
What are you saying?
When people sit down in thechair, are they looking at the
chart or are you looking at them?
Those are actually principles.
It's not just about good customer service.
You're, you're telling a story in each oneof those moments, and what you're saying
is either I'm the hero of the story, ormy customer is the hero of the story.
And for customers and businessesto win, they need to understand
(50:32):
that their customers the hero ofthe story and they're the guide.
It's a win-win for both.
But in reality in that you arepositioning yourself as the
strongest character in the story.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (50:43):
And this is, it's, it's incredibly
powerful what you're saying.
And, and maybe I'm going to comeoff a little defensive, um, because
I don't have 7:00 AM appointments,but I. Can you scratch a nerve?
Yeah, yeah.
We, we are going against, and then, anda lot of what you're saying, I teach and
I write about because it has to do with,uh, neuron mirroring and it has to do with
(51:05):
compassionate, it has to do with humanity.
And we're moving away from that.
I am, I am.
I am in your boat.
I am in your camp.
I will come to your church, but.
We're not taught that, you know,as providers, as practitioner, as
clinicians, we are not taught that.
Right.
And um.
(51:26):
And there's very littleappreciation when, when we do
serve like that to our patients.
Dr. JJ Peterson (51:32):
Um, I think it's gonna be the differentiation moving forward.
I genuinely do.
Um, I think, you know, especiallyin a world of like AI and
different things that people areexperiencing on all sorts, sorts of.
Levels.
But I think the human, the humanside of things being seen, heard,
and understood is going to be thedifferentiation moving forward.
(51:52):
What's really interesting is I, this iskind of a side thing, but I use AI all the
time in writing and doing a lot of stuff.
I actually treat AI like a human,not for its sake, but for mine.
But for your sake.
Yeah, for my sake.
Please.
Thank you.
I don't wanna, yeah, I don't wannalose my own humanity in dealing with.
The electronic side of things.
And so I know it's dumb to say thankyou and please, and hey, great job.
(52:16):
When I do, when I'm walking, talking toai, it's not for the ai, it's for me.
I don't wanna lose my humanity.
And I think for everybody in thisspace, when you can do that, it will
be your differentiator moving forward.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (52:29):
So you don't, you don't write an email.
Listen, Jack Hall, I'm really mad atthis person and I need you to write
an email and really let them have it.
Dr. JJ Peterson (52:38):
Yeah, no, no.
Lead with love.
Regan Robertson (52:41):
I, I use AI every single day and, uh, and if you're
open to it, we'll have you back as aguest again, because AI was a gigantic
topic that I knew we weren't gonnabe able to cover today, but there.
SEO you know, that's changing rapidly andpeople are asking, uh, AI far and above.
It's kind of like when websitesbecame responsive and mobile driven.
(53:02):
So we knew that that was going to behappening and uh, and StoryBrand has
an ai, uh, that they've launched aswell to help, to help people with this.
But I, I use it every singleday when you know how to use it.
And, and I think, I think I readsomewhere, guys, I'm gonna like.
Validate this and put it in the shownotes, but I remember the scientists
were talking about, uh, AI bots thatwere interacted with positively and
(53:26):
politely ended up outperforming thosethat were not spoken to, and they
were trying to figure out why that is.
So stay tuned on that.
I, I, there's definitely a way though,I think to still stay authentic.
Um, be clear, build trust, and, and AIcan be our tool, not the driver for sure.
(53:46):
In the future of this.
Jj.
Mm-hmm.
It's been amazing tohave you for this hour.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Chad and Maggie, for yourcontributions and being on this with us.
Any, any closing thoughts youhave for our listeners today, jj?
Dr. JJ Peterson (54:01):
I think the, the biggest thing, and this is honestly
what I've, what drew me to StoryBrandand what has kept me in this game now
for, I think 11, 12 years doing this andtalking about some of the same stuff.
Is it.
In any situation you're in, think abouthow can I play the guide in this role?
Because we all play thedifferent, different characters
(54:22):
in, in our day to day, right?
We sometimes are the villain, not onpurpose, but sometimes we play a villain.
Sometimes we play a victim.
Sometimes we are victims of of, of thingsthat people are doing to us and then.
I think our ultimate goal is to moveout of those and move into the hero
space, overcoming our own struggles.
That's what a hero's journey is,is overcoming their own and then
(54:44):
ultimately moving into the guide space.
And in the guide space.
That's when you've taken the thingsthat you have learned and the things
that you have overcome and now turnaround and help others do the same.
That is, I think, not only the most.
Fulfilling way to live.
There's actually a bunch of researcharound that, uh, around the idea of
(55:06):
once you've experienced your own joyand you go back to try to have that
same amount of joy with that sameexperience, you won't experience it
unless you take somebody else with you.
Help watch them experience that joy.
That's the only way to out joy yourselfis to have help somebody else experience
the same joy you experienced earlier.
So there's a lot of,
Dr. Chad Johnson (55:26):
it's a circle of life.
Dr. JJ Peterson (55:29):
Hundred percent is, and so I think that's
just my final word would say.
In all situations when you're feeling likeyou're overwhelmed, when you're feeling
like you don't know what you're doing.
When you're feeling like I can'tget people to do what I want
and to move forward, just stop.
Stop and say, how can I be the guide here?
How can I help other people win?
Because when I help other peoplewin, then then I win as well.
Regan Robertson (55:53):
Thank you so much.
Mic drop.
Yeah, all
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (55:57):
done.
Thank you, jj.
Dr. Chad Johnson (55:58):
Boom.
Well done.
Dr. Maggie Augustyn (55:59):
Jj.
You make the world spinin the right direction.
Dr. JJ Peterson (56:03):
Uh, thank you.
That's that's my hope in all of it.
So.
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