First Horror with Shihan Van Clief

Episode Transcript
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James Jay Edwards (00:25):
Welcome to eye on horror, the official
podcast of ihorror.com. This isepisode 131 otherwise known as
season seven, episode 12. I amyour host, James, Jay Edwards,
and with me, as always, is yourother host. Jacob Davison, how
you doing? Jacob

Jacob Davidson (00:41):
Davison, okay, just had a long night, so doing
my best to stay awake. It'ssleepy.

Yeah, we record these early and yeah,
we're we're all sleepy. Alsowith us, as always, is your
other other host. Jon Correia,how you doing? Correia,

Jonathan Correia (01:00):
doing great. I I have, I already just have
chugged half a bang, so, youknow, and I haven't eaten
anything yet, so I have about 30minutes before I start getting
weird.

You know what? I tried those bangs when
they were on sale at Costco. Thebang is nasty. It is, I couldn't
handle it. You know? What I wantto try, though, is there's a new
energy energy drink called Luckyfuck. Have you seen Jesus? Heard
about that? It's I keep gettingtargeted ads on Facebook for it,

(01:33):
and it looks really interesting.
So anyway,

and I wouldn't trust, I didn't want to trust
Facebook ads for an energydrink. Yeah, well,

you can get it, you can get it through
Amazon, and I'm waiting for themto have, like, a variety pack at
Costco or something like that.
But yeah, this is not eye onenergy drinks, though. This is
eye on horror. And I think we'realready going to be stretching
that definition this episode,because not a whole lot has come
out horror wise. But the bigrelease. It's out right now, and

(02:00):
we can't even talk too muchabout it without spoiling
anything but Deadpool andWolverine. Yeah, no spoils.

I haven't seen it yet. You haven't seen

it. Oh, my.
Okay, so we can't, we can barelyeven talk, because there's this
movie is full of fun shit thatjust cannot be spoiled, like
literally first frame to lastframe, you just know that it is.
It's typical Deadpool. It's Rrated Marvel, and there are just
fun Easter eggs and cameos frombeginning to end. It's so

(02:32):
awesome.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, mainly
because it we're finally gettingthe multiverse hopping Deadpool.
Which we have a guy before, andthat's such a big part of his
character, is the ridiculousnessof that. So I'm seeing it
Friday.

And the thing I really love about it, and I
don't think this is really muchof a spoiler, but it is kind of
a love letter to the 20thcentury, Fox era of Marvel
movies. Yeah,

it totally is. It's like, if you know the
pre quote, MCU Marvel history,yeah, you'll love it. It's, I
mean, you'll love it anyway. Imean, it's, I don't see why, how
anyone cannot love this movie.
The funniest thing, a lot ofit's being spoiled on Facebook,
like it's doing that annoyingthing, like, the reason I

(03:19):
stopped watching Walking Dead,you know, because Beth's death
was spoiled for the West Coast.
And I don't even, I don't evenfollow their page. It just
popped up because someone I knowfollowed it. The same thing is
happening with this, like, pagesI don't follow are spoiling
things. So, yeah, I mean, it's,you got to be careful a little

(03:40):
bit. I don't watch trailers. Ithink I've told everybody that,
but I did go back and watchtrailers after I saw this, and
there's one thing in the trailerthat that gets spoiled is, yeah,
Wolverine fights Saber Tooth,but it is not what you think.

No, I'm looking forward to it. But the
big release I did see though,because I had to see it opening
night, Twisters. Did you guyssee Twisters? I

know I haven't seen that.

Yeah, I saw Twisters. Twisters. Okay, here's
the deal. I watched Twister thenight before I saw Twisters
because just to kind of refreshand here is the difference.
Here's my problem with Twisters.

To remember the mythology, the lore of the
Twister franchise,

exactly. And it paid off, because in the very
first scene, there's freakingDorothy four. But anyway, my
problem with Twisters is okay,Twister was a totally fun movie.
Everybody in that movie is in onwhat kind of movie they're
making. They all know, you know,even you know serious like, like

(04:49):
freaking Jamie Gertz, evenrealize what kind of movie
they're making. And PhilipSeymour Hoffman, this is a movie
that got him his role in BoogieNights. It's, I mean, he's so
amazing. Well, I can see thisrole getting him, what his role
in Boogie Nights, because it's,I had even forgotten he was in

(05:09):
it, until I saw and I'm like,well, is that? Yeah, that is
him, because it's so differentfrom anything else he's ever
done. But Twister is so fun. AndTwisters, to me, is not it takes
itself so seriously. And theyhave the perfect they go to a
rodeo and a tornado hits. Theyhad the perfect opportunity to

(05:32):
do a cow joke, and they didn'ttake it. Yeah, come on.

I will say the lack of cow joke was, was a bit
disappointing. Twister. I didn'tre watch Twister before because
I was waiting for my 4k to comein and didn't come in in time.
But I've seen that movie somuch. It's one of those ones
where just kind of, know, like,the back of my hand, and, like,
I remember I went to a friend'shouse and they put it on for,

(05:58):
like, background and, like,there's a whole party going on,
and I was just sitting there inthe living room watching living
room watching Twister, andeveryone's like, you watching
Twister? I'm like, Uh, fuckyeah, I'm watching Twister. Look
how hot everyone is in thismovie. Holly Hunter, Bill
Paxton, fucking Philip SeymourHoffman, Jamie Gertz, do I need
to keep going get out of here?
Oh,

Cary Elwes is is it. Oh,

dude, next thing I know, half the parties
watching Twister was made.
Everyone's like, holy shit, thismovie's awesome. I'm like, Yeah,

I think I told you guys one time we, my
wife, used to do roller derby,and we had all the roller derby
girls over for a party at once.
And Rollerball happened to be onone of the channels. We had
original, yeah, the originalYeah. And it was, it was on, and
little by little, people startedwatching it. And at one point,
when the girl goes, Why don't weget motorcycles?

I've been saying that for years,
Rollerball needs to be an actualthing.

Okay, on with your Twister sorry, yeah,
really, no, but back to,

back to Twisters. I really like
twisters. I They're definitely,I know the first wasn't all
practical it. And actually havetwisters Come on, but, but, but
there was definitely in the verybeginning, where, when, when the
first tragedy happens, right?
The establishing tragedyhappens, where I was like, okay,

(07:13):
okay, yeah, this is, this isfine. I'm in it, yeah, we're in
it. And, like, I was pretty finewith it, and then Glenn Powell
and Katie O'Brien show up intheir RVs, and just took that
film to the next level. And Iwanted, and it was, it was
almost like two different movieswere happening. There was, there

(07:34):
was the daisy Jones movie,Twister movie, and then there
was the Glen Powell and even heracting changed when Glenn was
on, or whether Glenn or was inthe scene or not, and it just
the the two of them elevated itso much. And you know, as a as a
sequel, especially a legacysequel, so many years later,

(07:55):
it's a lot of fun without tryingtoo hard to be like the first
movie without trying too hard toconnect. Like, yes, we have
Dorothy four at the beginning,but there wasn't a whole lot of
connection. It kind of did feellike, originally, she was going
to be Helen Hunt's daughter, butthen they couldn't book her or
something. I

did feel like when they got the mom into it,
that I'm like, Okay, this rolewas written for Helen Hunt yeah,

it kind of felt like that. But like, for
whatever reason, they didn't Ireally appreciate because I did
read that, uh, originally, theydo kiss in the movie, but Steven
Spielberg was like, nah get ridof that, because I really
appreciated that it was like alove story, but like, it's still
a work in progress, you know,between them, so that so that
was nice.

What I loved most about it is because you've
got the Kate character. She'slike, like you said, the
establishing tragedy, one of thesurvivors of that, he works for
some real estate developer, andthey're tracking these tornadoes
to find out where, where they'regoing to land, and where they

(09:05):
where the dangers for like, theinsurance company kind of a
thing. And then the other team,the Cary Elwes team, I guess you
could call it, is the GlenPowell one. They're YouTubers
that are storm chasers andstuff. And they're like Mad Max
rolling in in their trucks. Andthis is in the trailer, the
truck that drills itself. So

good. I love that.

I question if that would work, but if it
would, I love it, because thatis pretty good. But, um, I do
love how about halfway throughthe movie, there's this
ambiguity as to who the goodguys and who the bad guys are.
And one of the youtubers isplayed by Sasha Lane, and she
has a drone that she flies intothese tornadoes and Sasha Lane

(09:47):
with a drone, come on that I didenjoy that. That was about as
fun as the movie got for me,though Sasha lane and her drone

well for me as an obsessed Scream Queens fan.
Because I've been team GlenPowell ever since Season One of
Scream Queens. Just the factthat his main friend in twisters
is named Boone, was the greatestthing in the world to me. Just
hearing Glenn Powell shout Boonemultiple times throughout the
movie just filled my heart withjoy, because that was Nick

(10:17):
Jonas's character in ScreamQueens was also named Boone, and
so just having him go, Boone, itjust every time my face lit up.
It was beautiful. And although Ido have to say, because they
show it in the trailer thatthere's this, there's a sequence
in a single screen small townmovie theater, and it's the one
time I'm like, movie logic, comeon, guys. Because they go, they

(10:40):
basically go, do we, do we dothe the research, or do we save
the people? And it's like, wegotta save the people. And then
they move them all into a singlescreen movie theater that was
probably built in the 1930s andit's like, this is the worst
fucking place you can it's atall building that has, like, no
structure. That thing's comingdown hard. Like, what are you
guys, that's not saving people.

And you know that they're in Oklahoma, you
know, there's a basement to thatbuilding. Get everybody down
there.

There was no basements in the movie. No
basements anywhere. Uh, thoughthe pool sequence at the rodeo
was pretty awesome. I gotta say,like, yeah, twisters is a lot of
fun, if you like the first one.
I think this is, I think this ishow you should do a legacy
sequel, not trying too hard tobe like the original, not trying
too hard to reinvent the wheel,just taking what worked before,
and also the director also didMinari. And boy, does he know

(11:31):
how to shoot the Midwest. Doeshe knows how to shoot those open
spaces? And so there's a lot ofreally great camera work
happening in there. So, yeah,

yeah, between that and the guy who did Pig
doing the prequel to A QuietPlace if it's wild, just how
many directors have got theirstart with the with these kind
of groundbreaking independentprojects are handling these big
budget blockbuster sequels andprequels?

Yeah, good for them, dude, especially if they
can do the Nolan thing, wherethey get these big, you know,
like, uh, budget franchises, andthen turn around and make the
personal films like, hell yeah.
All for it.

You gotta get that paycheck, yeah?

Uh, a really interesting documentary that I
found the other day on canopy.
Again, I'm plugging Kanopy. Ifgo out to your local public
library, get a library card andthen sign up for Kanopy. Kanopy
is an amazing resource. Yourlocal library is amazing
resource. Go do it. They get alot of new stuff, like all the
new A24s are on there for freeto watch, and then the whole

(12:36):
service is free. Now

I think that the library on Kanopy varies
with what library you sign upwith, though,

yes, some libraries don't have access to
it, so check your local librarywell, it and

some libraries don't have access to
the same stuff as otherlibraries. That's what I'm
saying. I think your librarymight not have access to all the
brand new 824, stuff, but yeah,I

think with Kanopy, it's, it's because they
do a ticket system, so you getlike 25 tickets a month, and a
movie is usually like two orthree tickets, so it's per
title. It's doesn't work exactlylike Libby, but check it out,
you could also get a digitallibrary, especially the New York
library allows anybody to get adigital library card. So that's

true. You may just have to find the right
library,

yeah. So check it out. But anyways, on Kanopy,
they have this documentarycalled The Conqueror Hollywood
Fallout, and it's all aboutHoward Hughes's last film The
Conqueror, which is famously theGenghis Kong movie starring John
Wayne, which right off the bat,you know that that's an insane
production. If they go, Yeah,John Wayne, the epitome of

(13:46):
American, machiso Western,playing Genghis Khan, yeah,
it's, it was an epic failure onmany levels, except for
financially, kind of, I don'tknow, but they go into where
Howard Hughes was in life,because this was, this was the

(14:07):
movie, if you remember theaviator when he's locked up in
his house, in his very hermit,this is the movie he was
projecting on repeat, day in andday out in his house. It was the
last film he made, and and theproduction behind it is
absolutely insane, mainlybecause they shot it in in Utah,
300 miles away from wherethey're, where they were doing

(14:30):
the atomic testing in Nevada.
And so everyone on the cast andcrew got cancer from making this
movie, and so did the entiretown that they shot in. And so
the documentaries goes throughthe making of it and how it was
made, but then they alsocontinued going into its legacy
and what it made. And they talkabout like, how the director got

(14:52):
cancer and died, like three orfour years later, how a lot of
the main actors. Got cancer.
John Wayne famously got cancer,but he was because I was around
the time when people werestarting to go, Hey, smoking's
bad for us. Holy shit, it is.
And so John Wayne was famouslysaying that it was that, and

(15:13):
he's a and he was superpatriotic, so he's not going to
say that the US government gavehim cancer, but it's really
interesting, because the legacywith that town, especially, like
a lot so many people got cancer,uh, young children were like
eight. They were talking abouteight year olds who were dying
from testicular cancer, which isinsane. Eight

year olds barely have testicles. How they
get cancer?

That's how that's how radiated it was. But
the propaganda that thegovernment was putting out at
the time was saying, no, no, no,you're safe as long as you are
inside your house for a fewhours after the winds. But it
they go into they kind of coverup the propaganda. And it wasn't
really until the 80s didsomeone, some journalists,

(15:58):
basically read a report sayingthe US government killed John
Wayne. Did people start payingattention? Because that town was
largely ignored about it, eventhough the cancer rates in it
were absolutely insane and itit's so as much as that movie
was a disaster, it's because ofthat movie that that town was
able to get reparations. Becauseenough of a when you say the US

(16:21):
government killed John Wayne,people listen, but it's really
well done, really wellresearched, and it's and it
really gets you thinking, like,holy shit, yeah, we were doing
nuclear testing, like the amountof nukes that were tested in
that area, essentially theamount of times the US
government bombed its owncountry. It's, I think they said

(16:43):
they did 928 tests out there.
IE, they did 928 things. Andit's not like that. Radiation
goes away. It's not, you know,it gets picked up from the wind.
And they showed, like, thegraphs of where the nuclear
fallout and radiation goes, andit's across America, it and goes
up into Canada and shit, andit's something that we're not

(17:05):
talking about. So yeah, The

Conqueror (17:08):
Hollywood Fallout. I highly recommend it, especially
if you're a movie buff, becauseagain, the Conqueror is an
insane movie, and how it wasmade is insane, but its legacy
is much darker than just, youknow, John Wayne in yellow in
yellow face, yeah, on Kanopy

and on my end, I've watched a bunch of horror
movies on the anniversariesthat's been A lot of repertory
screenings, like just last weekwas the 15th anniversary of the
Friday 13th remake from 2009,yeah, which, in my opinion, is
very underrated as a Friday 13thmovie. And, you know, it's just

(17:55):
also wild that that's the lastmovie we've had since then, you
know, it's been 15 years, andbecause of the rights issues,
you know, haven't seen Jason inaction for a long time outside
of, I think, mostly video games.
But yeah, no, the remake stillholds a special place in my
heart, because I think you know,Shannon Swift did such a great

(18:16):
job in distilling the franchiseinto one story with and doing
that incredible opening Prologand leading into the main story.

That's what I think about. When I think about
the Friday the 13th remake, Ithink about basically that
opening scene, which is like 20minutes long, and it's like, you
almost forget that you haven'tseen an opening title, and all
of a sudden, then it's like,Friday the 13th. You're like, Oh
yeah,

that was a mic drop of a title drop. Yeah, very
much. Yeah. And yeah, no. DerekMears was an incredible Jason
Voorhees. It was like, becauseDerek Mears was actually there
for Q and A with Shannon Swift,and they talked, and somebody
from the audience mentioned justhow much acting he does with
just his eyes, because actually,we do get some movement from
Jason. This is not like zombieJason. This is not invincible,

(19:07):
Jason. This is like kind of abackwards Rambo, Jason, because
he's got all the traps, and hedoes get injured and he can be
taken aback. So there is more ofa humanity to Jason in this, but
he's still a terrifying killingmachine, and it has some pretty
inventive kills. I think a lotof the screaming was from the

(19:28):
one where the stoner kids in thetool shed, he gets, like, slowly
stab in the neck with thescrewdriver. Yeah, that got a
big response because it wasthat. It was also around that
time with the Platinum Dunesremakes and stuff where, you
know, it's just kind of theviolence was just a bit more
brutal. But yeah, no, that was afun one. And a couple days ago,

(19:50):
I went to the 25th anniversaryscreening of The Blair Witch
Project, and that one still isprobably one of my all time
favorite found footage horrormovies. It just does such an
incredible job of balancingmaking it feel real, you know,
with just how far they went withthe actors and the finale still

(20:12):
just so bone chilling when theygo into the house and there's
such a level of ambiguity thatit feels nightmarish. And I was
lucky enough to even win a stickman from one of the production
designers. Of course, he wins,makes a good desk ornament.
Can't,

can't leave the house without winning
something

to stand on the street corner like a Blu Ray
said, will magically appear myarms off the back of a truck.

That's true.
It's true. I've seen it.

There will never be another Blair Witch
Project, because I thinkaudiences now are too smart,
even with something likeParanormal Activity. That was
pretty convincing, people arelike, No, this is found footage,
but when Blair Witch wasreleased, it fooled so many
people. It

was that magic moment of the internet. Yeah,

exactly, exactly. It was like, you know,
the Internet was stillrelatively new, you know, first
10 years, first five years ofits real popularity, and the the
the internet campaign for it. Imean, they were invading chat
rooms and, you know, web, youknow, message boards, and they
had people convinced. And Idon't think you'd be able to

(21:23):
convince people that somethinglike that is real. I mean, I
probably, I

know you couldn't get away with it today.
Yeah, I

appreciate found footage. I mean, I, I love
it, and I'll watch any foundfootage movie hoping I, you
know, nine times out of 10they're really bad, but I always
will watch it, hoping to findthe next Paranormal Activity,
or, you know, you know, LakeMungo, that just the next Megan
is missing, that kind of athing, you know, because when

(21:52):
it's done well, it's done sowell, but I don't think you're
ever going to fool anyone againlike Blair Witch did. No,

I mean, it's, it was just a magic moment, like,
like you were saying, you justwith the kind of, you know,
Internet being relatively new,so a lot of people were kind of
adjusting to that and thespreading of information, plus
they handed out those missingpersons posters that Cannes and
stuff like that. And the actorswere disappeared for a while.

(22:20):
And I even rewatched Curse ofthe Blair Witch, you know, the
documentary accompaniment thataired on the Sci Fi Channel to
help kind of plug the move evenmore. So, you know, just really
lean into that. And I evenrewatched the Scooby Doo
project, the Scooby Doo parodythey did on Cartoon Network. So,
you know, just thinking back onthe kind of cultural phenomenon
that was because everybody wasdoing a Blair Witch parody back

(22:43):
in 99 and afterward,

oh yeah. I mean, I think the closest thing
was the one that predated theMcPherson Tape, and that mainly
when, yeah, believed in viral,or pre internet viral, because
copies were being spread aroundwithout the end credit. So
everyone thought it was anactual alien invasion, to the
point where the director remadeit in the 90s to be like, No,

(23:06):
see, it's a work of fiction. Andeveryone went, No, you work for
the government.

Well, also Ghostwatch on the BBC, yeah. But
that was more of a war of theworlds kind of thing where it's
like, you know, it

was live. Yeah, they

were going live, and they knew what they
were. I mean, when you'rewatching something live on
Halloween, you got to expectthat, you know. But it did. It
did scare people. Ghost

watch was so I could not even put my brain into
the mindset of being fooled byit, mainly because it has the
actor from red, Red Dwarf in it,and so it was immediately like I
was pulled out because of that.
It's still a great watch. It'sso much fun. I do think, though,
that when it comes to convincingand misinformation on the
internet, I think people aresuper ripe for it. I mean, I
think, I don't think you can doit as part of a movie campaign,

(23:53):
but I think the spread ofmisinformation and things are
happening. I mean, I would saythe modern equivalent to the
Blair Witch phenomenon is QAnonand all that 1,000% um,

Unknown (24:06):
kind of, I guess, very similar tactic. There's a whole
Deep Web or rabbit hole thingthat you can go down on, like,
how that happened, but, right?
Yeah, but yeah, it feel likethat's kind of an apples and
oranges situation,

right? They're both fruit, yeah,

but yeah, the closest approximation I could
think of for found footage dayis Frogman, which, I mean, it
wasn't plugging itself to bereal, although they did do a
thing where they made up theFrogman as like a local legend
or cryptid. But, you know,everybody knew it was a movie,
but still, it's also fun. Like,I really like it is

frogman actually a local cryptid from
that area? I mean, they

made that up, but they, they did establish
their own kind of local folkloreand saying, like, Frogman, is it
around this town in Kentucky? Ithought. And because

The Legend of Boggy Creek is based on a real
cryptid, oh, yeah, Bigfoot, but,well, no, it's the folk monster,
which I guess is, is samsquatch,yeah, I guess it is a Bigfoot.
But most of it is fabricated,most of the movie they made, but
it is based on real legends. So

and the Blair Witch Project was inspired by
the Boggy Creek movie. Yeah. Soit all goes for circle, really,
that

4k restoration on Boggy Creek is Boggy

Creek is Boggy Creek and the and the
directors, uh, next movie, theum, The Town That Dreaded
Sundown, those, those movieshave no right to look as good as
they do in these restorations.
These are the movies that you'resupposed to be able to see the
grain on. I

love
An dThe Legend Continues, yes,
which I still need to watch. I still haven't
watched my VinSyn version of it.
Speaking of VinSyn, I went tothe archive in Colorado, and I
gotta say, it is great,especially if you're a big VHS
fan. Holy shit. Their VHScollection is is massive. Lot of
great stuff. If you're in theDenver area, highly recommend

(26:10):
going there. And it's just niceto see where all my blu rays get
shipped out of because theycover the West Coast

shipments there you get to go to the nursery.
Oh, great,

great staff, great selection. I was very
tempted to buy a laser discplayer that they had there,
because it was 130 bucks. Theytested it, and I'm like, Ooh, a
working laser disc player, but Ididn't have room in my carry on
for it, and but they had a greatdeal where if you bought it, you
got you could pick two laserdiscs for free. So I was very

(26:42):
tempted, very, very tempted

you just put a wig on the laser disc and say
that it's your child.

My fight back home was was half empty, so I
maybe I could have this is myboy, my baby boy.

Yeah, Johnny Junior.

So now let's bring in our special guest for
the episode. This episode, wehave Shihan Van Clief, the
director of My First HorrorFilm. How you doing? Shihan,

Shihan Van Clief (27:10):
I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Glad to be
here.

Thanks for being here. Let's start off at
the beginning. How did you getstarted as a filmmaker? What?

How'd you get started actually, as a
filmmaker, I mean, I love film.
I grew up loving film. My fatheractually did a lot of
Blaxploitation films in the 70s.
So I grew up just loving film.
And I used to, I still, to thisday, I watch almost a movie a
day. To this day, I love, I lovestorytelling in general. And I

(27:39):
grew up where my father was asingle dad, so he used to take
me to everything. So I saw, Iremember going to the movie, see
The Thing, and seeing TheBoogens when I was five and six
years old and stuff like that.
And so I just loved horror. Andso when I got older, I knew I
want to tell stories throughfilm, but I was scared to ask,

(28:01):
right? And I think as artists, alot of people were scared to ask
for help when you're doingstuff. So I was like, how am I
going to do this? And I had alot of friends who were in the
entertainment industry werelike, Why don't you just get it
done? Stop saying you're awriter. Stop saying you're this
unless you're getting somethingdone, you're none of those
things. So I wind up gettingsome friends together said,
look, here's what I'd like todo. This is the idea. And my
mentor said, if you can get itdone for this much, I'll give

(28:23):
you the money to do it. And Isaid, Oh, shit. And so that's
basically what the jump offpoint was. And from that moment
on, it was about a month as faras this movie, specifically,
from idea to starting first dayof shooting. But I loved film. I
did television, I wroteadvertisements. I was a
copywriter for years. I alsodirected commercials for
Powerade and Wingstop and allsorts of stuff. So filming was

(28:46):
part of my thing, but telling mystory was what I wanted to do.
And that's kind of what happenedwith My First Horror Film

film. What?
Uh, if you don't mind me asking,What movies did your dad make?

So there was a series of films called the Black
Dragon. So he was in this, uh,The Black Dragon, Black
Dragon's Revenge, Death of BruceLee, Way of the Black Dragon,
then he choreographed the filmin, I mean, he choreographed a
few different films, did a lotof stunt coordination, but he
wind up doing The Last Dragon,which was like a huge film in
the 80s. And he was the also, hewas also the choreographer for
that. And so I was on set everyday because my dad was doing

(29:20):
that. So, yeah, my dad wasactually the commissioner for
the UFC for a while. My father'sa martial arts so it was all
martial arts films that he wasinto. Ron Van Clief was his
name,

yeah. Oh, great, yeah. I was just curious
because, you know, so he wasmainly a stunt guy, or

he was a stunt guy. He was the lead in the, in
the Black Dragon series. He wasthe lead because he was Black
Dragon. Ron Van Cleef, the blackdragon. And yeah, and so that's
kind of what it was. Yeah, funnyenough. I

think I saw a bit about him in that new
documentary about BruceplotationEnter the Clone of Bruce.

Yes, yes, he isn't it. Yes, he is. Oh,
awesome. They were friends. Theywere friends. And actually he
got the name. The Black Dragonfrom Bruce Lee himself. So,
yeah,

that's super awesome. I was wondering,
because with my, My First HorrorFilm, the credits, which are
hilarious, there is that momentwhere it says the credits

are hysterical. When, when you guys
watch this movie, stay readthrough the credits, because
they are my favorite. It'sfinancing by Shihan's pockets,

but I saw the Thank you, of course, to The
Last Dragon. I was just like,hell yeah, last dragon fucking
rules. I didn't realize therewas that much of a personal
connection that's amazing. Yeah,

yeah. Super close, super close connection.

And I wanted to ask, Where did My First Horror
Film stem from? Or what, whatinspired you?

You know, I was watching, so I was watching.
It was two different things. Iactually had watched Halloween
II. And right after I watchedHalloween II, I saw an interview
with with some actors talkingabout how difficult the industry
is, and how, basically, youcould show up in an alleyway.

(31:06):
You could be told your auditionis going to be in an alleyway.
And because people are sowanting to get a job that they
literally would show up and getin a van and just go wherever
this van took them, because theywant to work so badly. And so
watching Halloween and thenwatching that interview, it made
me think about the friends Ihave who are actors, and the
things they do, and the storiesI've heard from them about what

(31:27):
they did for work. And I waslike, Okay, this is what I can
do. I can tell this story. AndHalloween, specifically, I love
the idea. I mean, Halloweenobviously show black when you
show blood, where you get shotin the eyes and those kind of
things, but for the most part,especially in the first one,
there wasn't very much blood.
And I liked the idea of tellinga story and telling a scary
story that did not have blood init, and also didn't have to have

(31:49):
everything on screen. I alsoloved that idea. And so putting
the two together, I was like, Ithink I can make this work, but
can get the team together tomake that happen? And I think
that was more the reserve on myend was kind of like holding the
reservation on my end washolding back and saying, Okay,
do I have the right pieces toplay because it's done, and play

(32:10):
it the way I'd like to play it.
I have to have the actors whokind of can come off as natural
as possible and almost like afluid like and get the language
of the writing so it comes offlike it's natural, because I
love Jamie Lee Curtis wasobviously fantastic and was one
of the original Scream Queens.
And still, there's debate about,you know, whether or not Pam
Grier was in Scream BlaculaScream, or even in, you know, in

(32:32):
Black Christmas. But I love thatidea that she was just so
natural in what she did, and itwas such a good role for her.
And so the people we put in playwas kind of also a motivating
factor behind it. And some ofthe people I knew, Oh,

absolutely I was watching, I was actually at
my friend's house, who's one ofmy he's in my production
company, and him and I came updoing the low budget, LA, uh,
shorts and movies and whatnot,and so that whole experience of
showing up, and it just kind oflike not being organized, and
like, like you said, showing upin an alley, getting in a van.

(33:10):
We were both sitting there. I'mlike, Are you triggered right
now? I'm pretty, I'm pretty,I've this is how these are the
sets we met on. This is where weso for us, it was like,

you were the guy driving the van, though,
when,

not always, I did a lot of roles, but like,
when they show up to set andthere's like, you know, the
wardrobe person's wearing, like,five hats, also doing makeup,
also doing all that stuff, I'mlike, Man, I think, I think I
know the set that they're on,too. Man, like, I think I I am
like, like, so I was already init from the beginning. I'm like,
I'm so uncomfortable right now,just for personal experience.

So, yeah, oh, cool. That's cool. Thank you.
One

of the things I found interesting about it,
and I I noticed it because lastnight, I just happened to watch
the Chernobyl Diaries again, andthat movie is not really found
footage, but it's it's so Lo Fi,and it almost feels like the
camera is another character. Andin My First Horror Film, some of

(34:13):
it is, you know, done throughthe social media or the
photography of the bleed, butsome of it, where it'll step out
of that, and you'll still see,you know, it'll go to more
traditional filmmaking, butit'll still be that Lo Fi like,
like you're peeking over theshoulder of people. What were
some of the influences for thevisual style? I mean, obviously

(34:34):
the lack of money was one of

them. But lack of money, yes, but

what were some of the visual influences?
Like I said, I noticed diaries.
I'm a this is this kind of goeswell with that.

Um, for me, I think I'm a big, you know, like
I said, I brought up Halloweenalready. But Halloween, Friday
13th, I love the idea of itbeing. Seen from first person.
So, you know, obviously openingof Halloween with the same with
in Friday the 13th, your seeingthrough the eyes of them so

(35:08):
you're part of it. I also am aP.T. Anderson fan. I love his
films, Boogie Nights andMagnolia There Will Be Blood.
And I do like the like, you'rewatching something happen. Kind
of had a thing too, where it waslike, oh shit. Like, there's
stuff happening, and you're kindof watching it, but you're kind

(35:30):
of close to it. You may not bethe one doing it, but you're
close enough to be experiencingwhat's happening without any
threat to you. And I kind ofplayed with that. I think that
was kind of the thing. So therewas a lot of figuring out what
camera made sense for whatmoment, right? So the real
camera, the real footage, notthe found footage, not the
camera that she's walking aroundwith. That footage had to make

(35:53):
sense. So when kills ready, whenthings were happening that were
real life, that was happening onreal camera, when it was you
know? So that was something thatwe had to pay attention to a
lot, actually.

And on that note, what inspired you to go
with the influencer aspect forlead

part of it, a huge part of it is my daughter
and a lot of these people nowwho feel like that is the thing,
like just doing the thing isenough, or just just cause you
do it, it was brought about thepoetry background, right? So
just because you say you're awriter, you're a writer, or just

(36:33):
because I say I do film, or I'ma model, it's like there's more
to it than that. And so the easeof it, I think there was this
parallel for me, where I canlook at the time I wasn't
necessarily thinking like this,but when I look at it after the
fact, I felt like lead kind ofwas my story, right? She's
making this thing not knowingwhat's going to happen, which

(36:53):
was my story in creating myfirst horror film, to write it,
to direct it, to do thedifferent things. And I was kind
of experiencing the character ofLead, like, that's what it was,
you know, in a weird way, but Ithink it was a lot with the
young people around that, I go,sheesh, there's a lot you put
into there's a lot of stake anda lot of weight you put on this
that doesn't necessarily implysafety, in the sense of, like,

(37:16):
monetary like, Yo, I'm here toflourish. This doesn't mean
you're going to be able to live.
And so that parallel too, likeshe thinks she's gonna live just
because she's the thing or soand so's gonna live. And it's
like that gets blurred along theways. Oh, man,

you hit us a little too hard because we're
podcasters. We don't get paidfor this.

But there's a passion to it that I think can
be, can't be removed from whatit is. But, and I feel like
that's with most art and artsthat you love, right? Because
even though horror is this thingthat makes a lot of money,
there's still a lot of peoplego, Oh, that's the kind of film
you did, or that's, that's, theylike shit on it. And I go, Oh,

(37:56):
are you kidding me? Like, thisis a great art form, great genre
in general, and especiallyrecently, there's been such
great horror that I'm like, Howcould you discount it as
anything other than some greatfilmmaking for what it is? You
know, in the same way with anykind of art podcasting in
general, this takes time. I knowthe setup of this and getting

(38:17):
things in order is not justlike, Okay, turn the camera on.
Okay. Let's go. It's okay. Wehave to go through a run of show
and see, make sure this ishappening. Or you your
headphones working, yourmicrophone working, are we
getting the right sound? Are thelevels correct, or this and
this. So I always think it'svaluable when people are artists
and they do the thing they loveto do, but there's danger in it.

(38:38):
There is danger in it.

Oh, it's always the weirdest thing,
especially when it comes tofilm, because it is an art form.
But first and foremost, it'salso a business. So yes, there's
always that thing. So especiallywith horror, it's often
dismissed as like, oh, that'sjust a cash grab. Oh, that's
just an easy way to get money.
It's like, well, there's a lotyou can I mean, yes. But also
within that realm, you couldplay around with it a lot. I

(39:02):
think Corman and otherfilmmakers would often say, we
have to include the things thatsell we need, you know, the we
need blood and we need boobs,and we need this outside of
that, do whatever you want andlike that's why Dante, Joe
Dante, and all those other oneswere able to get away with so
much social commentary, and JohnCarpenter especially, I

mean, Oh yes, oh yes.

It's an exciting genre, you will. You
will not find bigger defendersof that. It's worth it. I mean,
our very first episode was, whyare wise and horror included in
the Oscars more often?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I've seen recently, at
least some of the horrorfilmmakers, at least trying to
get their recognition in theOscars. I have seen, you know, I
remember last year or the yearbefore last, they tried to get
Mia Goth for for Pearl. And Ithought that was a smart thing.
That was 22 right? So I. Ithought that was great. I think

(40:01):
I even saw Terrifier. They triedto get that nominated for
makeup. But I here's the thinglike, I think, because it's been
discounted as a as a genre forso long, I think you have to
take those jumps and say, Yorecognize this, this, this. And
at first, people go andwhatever, and blow it up. But at

(40:22):
some point someone will go, oh,that's actually a really great
scene. That's a really greatthat, that exploding chest, or
the, you know, in Alien,whatever. That's a great to see
that even the costume designer,the makeup design obviously,
didn't get nominated for that,but for Silence of Lambs when he
walks in, when they walk intowhere Lecter was, and the dude's

(40:44):
hanging up in the fucking thingwith his chest all open. That's
a great scene. The visual ofthat, just on a visual level,
it's like the fact that they'llgo, they'll go. The acting was
good. But that was, you know,it's like, that looked
fantastic. That was fantastic,you know. So I think the more
things happen, they will getthose shots. I love Barbarian.

(41:05):
Last year, I thought Barbarianwas great. And like in the three
in the three acts, structure ofhow they laid out the story. I
know there's people who feellike different things about it,
or whatever, but I think thatthe different tones for each
act, I thought were great. Ithought that was a great idea.
You know what I mean. Andlooking at and you they played
well, and the actors were good,and like, I think all of that at

(41:25):
some point will be recognized,hopefully sooner than later, but
I do believe it's an undervaluedgenre consistently

well now, after 70 years, we finally have
Godzilla Oscar winner. Becausewe did. We did get a visual
effects Oscar for Godzilla. Sothings are changing, but I think
you're right. Nia goth gotcompletely robbed. And you know,
who else? Lupita Nyong’o For Usgot totally snubbed. And Toni

(41:53):
Colette in Hereditary How didthat not get nominated it? But
you know, so there is still workto be done.

Toni Collette, first of all, she's greater than
everything, because I thoughtshe was great in the car scene
in The Sixth Sense. I thoughtjust the scene where he tells
her about the grandmother, I'mlike, She's killing this scene.
How is she not being recognizedfor what she's doing? So yeah, I

100% and that's as close to an Oscar
movie as she's done, too. Yeah,that, yeah.

And on the subject, it is ironic, because
at the start of the Oscars, likemovies like Dr Jekyll, Mr. Hyde
won Best Actor with likeFrederick March. So there was a
time when these types of moviesgot this kind of recognition,
just there was a cultural shift.

Well, Sigourney Weaver got nominated
for Aliens, for Aliens for best.
So I mean, every once while itdoes happen, and Silence of the
Lambs you said, you know, thethe makeup effects may not have
won, but they won the Big Fivethey did when they were
nominated. So, I mean, everyonce while The Shape of Water
did well when it was up. And,you know, it's questionably

(42:56):
horror, but it's a monstermovie. Yeah,

let's not forget Jordan Peele won for
screenplay with Get Out. So

screenplay can sometimes be the Miss
Congeniality of the Oscars,though, you know, it's like
they're not going to giveanything else that movie. So
let's give it screenplay. So, Imean, get out was my favorite
movie of that year. I thought Ishould have won everything
absolutely. And

back in my first horror film, you said, since the
premise is about a micro budgethorror movie, and you said you
drew on some real life stories,I was wondering just how you
constructed it,

how I constructed the story itself.
Yeah, I looked at a day in alife. I want to do a one day
story. I knew I wanted to dothat, right? And I thought of
the day in the life of so for awhile, one of the people who
shows up in the film also has acameo at the end of the credits.
We were roommates together,right? And so I got to see them
go on auditions all the time,and what that life was like. And

(44:00):
so I would talk to him a lotabout what that was, what what
they did, why they did this.
Would you just go out foranything? Does it matter? Does
it and so then stuff aboutconversations about being an
actor, and what kind of rolesare available to you, right?
And, and, and so as Iconstructed it, I wanted it to

(44:20):
be a story that was about Lead,but also talked about and made
commentary on what people arewilling to do for recognition in
any capacity, right, like theywhat, what kind of vulnerability
they allow themselves to gothrough to, uh, finally, be
seen. So as I was putting thingstogether, I thought, well, what

(44:41):
are these conversations like?
Some of the conversation I havewith my friends, what are these
conversations like when we talkabout film, when we debate about
any film, what is thatconversation? And in horror and
someone who's going to do that,what are these conversations we
have? Yeah, you know what? Iloved Paranormal Activity 2. Do
more than I like the others, andthat's a disagreement with my

(45:03):
friends. But again, thatconversation so in the
beginning, when they're talkingabout this person and this and
what that means, I wanted toinclude that along the way, but
also still have someone who waslooking at it from the outside,
which her best friend is doingright, and she's going, you're
not paying attention to this.
And this and this was stuff Iwas thinking when I was doing,
my friend, wait, you're not.

(45:24):
This doesn't raise a flag atall, like, and even. And that
was part of the inclusion of,like, the Willy Wonka, little
thing in the car where she goes.
You know, no one knew what hewas doing. No one knew. No one
ever saw Willie or his Wonka.
And there's a and, you know,those re cuts of like horror,
like comedies, and turning theminto horror, like they did with

(45:44):
Mrs. Doubtfire and those kind ofthings. It's like those things.
So I wanted it to be thiscontinuing conversation that's
evolving as the things arehappening. But then there's
still people who are unaware ofwhat danger they are in. I see
it all the time where you'relike, you don't see there's
someone running with a hatchetin a mall, and someone's just
standing going, what? What'd yousay? What? And then they're and

(46:07):
then they're gone, right? So Iwanted to include that in the
construction of what I wasdoing, right? So as it moves
along, each person is havingtheir own observations that
they're making. While there aresome who have no clue,
regardless of what's going down,they still are like, what?
Because I think that's real ithink that's real life. And I
think the comedy and the horrorpart of it, and infusing that in

(46:27):
it, what was important for me. Ithink those that's a very
blurred line between comedy andhorror, because I think they're
both extremely difficult to do.
I think they're extremelydifficult to do, and both depend
on a vulnerability from theaudience watching, right?
Because comedy, you know, it'slike going to a comedy club so
many people are just waiting togo. That's not funny. Yeah,

(46:48):
that's not scary. That's notthat would never happen, right?
And I think blending that andputting those things together
allows it to open up more,because I think making someone
laugh is one of the hardestthings to do, and once you open
up to that, it allows the otherthings to take place. So that's
why it starts a little on thelighter side, so that you can
kind of like, okay, you know, Ilike this girl. She's funny,

(47:11):
she's and then, as it happens,you're like, Okay. And I think
it's a natural progression. SoI'm putting it together. That's
how I looked at it.

The friend role is almost like the role of
the audience, because she'ssaying what everyone's thinking.
She's called. You're reallygonna get in this van with these
strangers, drive off for therest of today, be back at
midnight ish.

Oh, man, yeah.
And she was and she was great. Iloved her too. She was there was
everyone in the cast. It wasfirst time working with any of
them in any capacity. So it'slike a complete thing too. And I
think that's the thing of theparallel I could draw between
being the lead and be myselfdoing it the first time, like
it's all new. Everything is new.

(47:59):
So yeah, and what a

great cast, too. Because even in the
trailer, I was like, I instantlydon't trust this director. And
there's a few moments in themovie where, and it's like,
early, you know, in theinteractions and stuff, even
when he's being friendly, I'mlike, I've seen those eyes
before. I don't let I don't Idon't trust him. Like, right?

The cast is giving me big duplus Creep
vibes, yes,

right? Yeah, totally Yeah. Miles was great.
He was great. Um, yeah, tryingto think of how even people were
brought in. We lost. What'scrazy is we lost two of the
actors the weekend before westarted shooting. So we did a
complete recast for twocharacters, and then someone had
to shuffle into another role. Soit was a whole lot of trying to

(48:45):
learn stuff in the weekendleading up to first day of
shoot. So the guy who playedjock was not part of the thing
at all. He came in on thatFriday. Someone got covid The
weekend before. So we couldn't,they couldn't be included at
all. So, but I do think thatreshuffling of who played what
actually played out really wellin the film. So the best friend

(49:08):
was originally the girlfriend,and the girl who's the
girlfriend was actually the PA.
So all these roles kind ofshifted all around, which I
thought was winding a bit,working to our advantage, but it
was definitely a oh shit moment,like, are we gonna be able to
get this done? Are they gonnaknow everything when it's time?
So no

listeners that might be confused by how
we're talking about this. No onein this movie uses their real
name by design. So like, they'recalled the characters. Lead,
jock, you know, girlfriend, andthen there's, you know, PA,
Director. So when we say it'snot that we can't remember these
names, right, those are thenames, right? Yeah, yeah.

And everyone was thrown off to like, wait.
We're not gonna have names like,no.

But there's some genuinely great moments.
Moments because of that. So,like, one of the characters,
he's, he's played, he's put hischaracter's name is the black
guy, and so for the whole movie,yeah, there's, where's the black
guy, there's moments where it'slike, they really need to know
who this person is. Like, yeah,then there's the black guy, or,
yes, yeah. And that's

the thing too.
And I think that's part of to meagain, after the fact, when I
was writing it, those thingsweren't being thought about as
much. But after I was like, Oh,it makes sense. When they're
even asking and police areinvolved, and it's like, who's
so and so, it's like, I don'tknow. I don't know who anybody
is. Yeah, who's there? Well,there's

the PA, there's the girlfriend, there's,
you can just see all thepolice's face being like, What
are you talking about? Exactly.
But also, that's pretty real. Imean, I've been on plenty of
sets, and people are like,what's in power? I'm like, I
don't know. I couldn't tell youwhat's going on here, but I got
the call at 3am right. Been heresince six, so, you know.

And, yeah, no, I do love the kind of meta aspect
to the film, especially as ofhorror movie. And you've
definitely shown that you're ahuge horror fan. And I wanted to
ask just kind of how you wentabout that or like, Did you do
any additional research? Or weretake or were watching similar

(51:26):
movies

I watched, let's see. I watched Final Girls
again. I went through andwatched Dream Warriors. Yeah, I
watched, like I said, I Oh, Iwatched The Thing even though,
obviously, mine's not a monsterfilm. I watched the thing

(51:51):
because some of the stuff Ireally liked in The Thing was
the not knowing of what it isand what's happening, right?
They they know something'shappening, but they don't know
what is happening, right? And ittakes so long. So I looked at
that and how that was strungtogether. I looked at, oh,
again, not a horror film. Ilooked at this movie, The Killer

(52:13):
David Fincher film. Oh, yeah,Netflix

one,

yeah. And, because there was a process,
right? I enjoy process, solistening to the process be
narrated through that film, Iwas thinking about how I'm
narrating this story throughouteven though they're totally
separate, they're not in thesame world at all. It's totally
different things. But I I lookedat that, and then I watched
series, a bunch of series. So Iwatched the first season of

(52:41):
Fear. I watched, oh. I watchedThe Wailing, which I think is
like an amazing I love themovie, The Wailing, Korean film,
horror film. I watched the nightof again on HBO, which is also
not horror, but this, this backand forth, of again, not being

(53:01):
given the answer. As a writer, Ifelt like it was always
important not to give the answerto what the thing is, because
I've always felt it was betterto walk out of a film going
blah, blah, blah, or laughing orwhatever, than being, oh, that
was cool, and then there'snothing else there. So I was
trying to figure out whatconversations could be started
on screen. Does it matter thatyou know, you know, some people,

(53:23):
some people may get the wholeblack guy thing, like black guy
is black guy is going to beblack guy. And he says the
tropes in the beginning, right?
So I was thinking about thosethings. I watched The
Blackening. I watched BlairWitch again, because to this
day, I still love the last scenein it. I still like the film. I
can whatever about, but I reallylove the last scene when they

(53:43):
run through the house and shewalks and he's just in the
corner. I just felt it was agreat setup moment where it's
like, and the music would youjust the score was really good.
It was just like, this rumbleunderneath, and it's like, oh
shit, something's going youknow? And I thought that was
great. So in my head, I waslike, what is the antithesis of
that for me, right? And it's,you know, whatever happens at

(54:04):
the end, right? And so it'sthose kind of things. So I
watched so many things, but likeI said, I watch a lot, all the
time, anyway, like, you know,yeah, I was like, looking at
posters in the back. Also, like,you know, I'm a all the films
that have, like, The BigLebowski just my glasses weren't
theirs at first. So I was like,Oh, these films, they all tell

(54:26):
me something. So I try and watchwhatever genre I'm jumping into.
Oh, HOST, THE MOVIE host, JedShepard was the whole thing told
on Zoom. And I went, I remembertalking to him about this. Also,
like, what it was being done andthen watching it, we were
talking about what that waslike. I thought that was
important too. Like, I thinkgetting feedback as I'm watching

(54:47):
things, but also gettingfeedback from certain people who
you know had experience in,yeah,

they're absolutely the third act of my
first horror film. It was givenme real hardcore Blair Witch
vibes when they're, you know,running around the shaky cam and
stuff. So I could tell that youhad watched that. What is,
what's coming up for you? What'sWhat you working on now?

So currently, I'm working on my follow up,
which is more in the thrillervibe, right? So it's a totally
different thing. I just finishedthe second draft that's getting
turned over on next week forproduction companies to look so
we can find out what realisticbudget we're going to be working

(55:33):
with to get that done. Butthat's basically a Thelma &
Louise meets The Fugitive, kindof film about a support group
for survivors of abuse who trackdown abusers and basically them
up. Basically the setup, cool,oh, yeah, so yeah, and that's

(55:55):
what I'm working on now. And,yeah, just editing, editing,
editing, editing. And then whileI'm up here, can I'm just going
to room at night, there's aMoose Lodge with nice big, giant
moose bust right over my hand. Ijust sit there. I'm writing,
thinking about stuff, and I'mtrying to, you know, also
incorporate elements of horror.
It is not a horror film, but Ithink incorporating elements of
horror because, again, I thinkplaying with what people

(56:19):
characters people are in reallife. Do you know teeter on
being monsters in real life? SoI think that's kind of where
even that idea came from. Waslike, there's a monster element
to what this is, even thoughthese are real people and how
they do things.

Cool. Well, thanks

for joining us this morning. Shihan,
everybody watch my first horrorfilm and stay for the credits.
Because not only do you get tosee audition footage, which is a
lot of fun, but read the creditsbecause they are hysterical
again.

Thank you so much.

Read all the way through the end and yeah,
look forward to it being a bigsuccess for you.

Thank you.

Where can people find you to find out what
you're doing? Are you on thesocials?

I am on socials. It's all
@therealShihan. So T, H, E, R,E, A, L, S, H, I, H, A N, just a
real Shehan, and that's kind ofwhat it is. Or if you can just
Google my name. Shihan VanClief, and you can find whatever
else you're looking for. Butyeah, that's it. And I hope
everyone gets a chance to watchit. Enjoy it, pick it up, pre
order it, do all the things andenjoy it. My thing is, enjoy it.

(57:32):
I'm a big fan of enjoying it.

It releases on August 13, so you'll have
your chance to enjoy it foryourself then, and thanks again
for joining us. So thank youvery much. Our theme song is by
Restless Spirits, so go andenjoy them. And our artwork is
by Chris Fisher, so go and enjoyhim. And you can find us on any
of the socials, at @eyeonhorror,or at ihorror.com, which is the

(57:56):
site we all call home. Andeverybody go see My First Horror
Film, and we will see you in acouple of weeks. So for me,
James Jay Edwards, I'm

Jacob Davison.

I'm Jonathan Correia, and

I'm Shihan Van Clief.

Keep your eye on horror.

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Episode Transcript

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First Horror with Shihan Van Clief

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