January 29, 2025 • 35 mins
Conflict in relationships often stems from unmet expectations and selfishness. The episode guides listeners to embrace selflessness and serve their partners, presenting this approach as the key to eliminating arguments and fostering mutual understanding.
• Discussing the biblical perspective on arguments
• Identifying unmet expectations as a cause of conflict
• Real-life examples to illustrate common arguments
• Emphasizing selflessness as a relationship strength
• Strategies for minimizing misunderstandings
• Encouraging transparent communication in marriages
• Highlighting the importance of humility and service
• Presenting a hopeful outlook for conflict resolution
Join us as we dive into the transformative teachings of Jesus and their relevance to modern marriage. Make your marriage the best it can be, it isn't hard to unlock the keys to a happy marriage with no more arguing!
#loveisaverb #Jesus #marriage #Jesussaves #selfless
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh (00:00):
Hey, are you looking for a way to finish every single
argument and never argue againwith your spouse?
Debbie (00:06):
Yes.
Josh (00:07):
Well, welcome to Faith Family Fishing and on this
episode, that's what we get into, debbie and Josh here.
(00:37):
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode and, as the intro said,
we are going to get into how tonever, ever, ever again, ever
argue with your spouse and I'mgoing to be honest, it's super,
super easy.
Like it is way easier than thefour or five day arguments or
(00:59):
the back-to-back arguments orany of that, but Okay.
But, as you can hear, one of usmyself is feeling under the
weather and luckily for Debbie.
I am such a manly man.
Debbie (01:11):
Such a champ.
Josh (01:13):
So here we are recording.
Debbie (01:15):
Although he did put his head back and I thought for a
brief moment he was going tofall asleep and it was going to
be an interesting episode all bymyself.
Josh (01:25):
Well, I'm sure you could have handled it, said some stuff
Just all by yourself.
Debbie (01:29):
All by myself.
Josh (01:30):
So here's the thing You're married, you're dating, you're
in a relationship of any kind.
Because, honestly, this advicecan go to any relationship.
Right.
I think the first thing we needto look at is what causes
arguments what does the biblesay?
Well in james.
(01:50):
It would tell you what causesfights among you.
Isn't it this that you desireand do not have?
so you quarrel, I like that wordquarrel um, and, and that is
that is true um, I think it's alittle broader of a definition
selfishness all well, everythingeverything, everything
(02:12):
everything is just birthed outof selfishness, um and we're
going to get into that in asecond but I think you argue
because of unmet expectation,right?
Your expectation was x, y or z,right they?
Debbie (02:26):
the other person did not meet that expectation.
Josh (02:29):
So right now there's an argument, right, you know a lot
of people.
Oh well, it's a difference ofopinion.
Yeah, it's an unmet expectationmy expectation was this your
opinion was different, differentthan theirs right and, and
let's be honest, we live in atime now where being divisive
and arguing and that's the nameof the game.
Debbie (02:48):
That's the norm across the board.
Josh (02:50):
And here's the tactic I'm going to yell louder than you.
And when that doesn't work, I'mgoing to just smear your name,
to cancel you or whatever it isnowadays and when.
When that doesn't work, I'mgonna try to turn everybody
against you oh, absolutely and Igo.
(03:10):
Why, though?
Why do we argue the way we dolike think about it?
We just passed the holidays,right?
I mean, it's the end of january, you know.
So you made it throughthanksgiving, you made it
through christmas, you made itthrough new year's you know, you
made it through the electioninauguration which was for some
people for some people.
Debbie (03:29):
I didn't think they were gonna make it right.
Josh (03:31):
However, you, you made it through all that with with your
family, right, and and one ofthe things we we talk about a
lot of church is, this time ofyear, you're gonna be around a
lot of people that you're notaround a lot right um, you know
and, and everybody's heard theadage right, you don't talk
about politics or religionbecause those just cause
(03:51):
arguments and and I go.
Why, though?
they shouldn't like.
Why are there any topics thatwe can't talk about?
Because it's going to cause anargument.
And I go and, honestly, it isjust that it is sitting here and
going.
Well, I thought that's thatexpectation and in reality it
(04:14):
hit totally different than whatI thought it would.
So, for example, not that meand Debbie argue ever I mean
happiest marriage in the world,we argue at all.
But if we were hypotheticallyhypothetically to argue.
It would go something like thishey, deb, can you go to the
kitchen, get me some water surey'all, y'all hear how
(04:41):
uncomfortable that silence was.
Right that that's like how longI'm waiting for Debbie to get up
out of bed to grab my cup, togo to the kitchen get me some
water.
And it's not that we live inthis mansion, but like I just
thought, you know, debbie couldgo get my water for me or
something.
So then, now that it'suncomfortable, I get up, grab my
water cup, go to the kitchen.
Before I even make it to thedoor, debbie's already yelling,
(05:08):
right, yelling, maybe a strongword okay, yeah, that was debbie
is already on the defense,though.
Right, I said I would get yousome water and I went right.
But I meant now, like I didn'twant water half an hour from now
, like I, I was asking you to goget it now, and then, next
thing you know, you're arguingand and sometimes it's hey,
(05:32):
we'll remember five years later,or five years ago, years ago
you said blah blah and it's likethis started with I asked you
for water I asked you for afavor, and if you would have
asked me for that favor, I knowI would have went and done it,
so I expected you to do the samething.
There's that unmet expectation,right, and a lot of times like
(05:52):
when you do counseling, likemarriage counseling or anything
like that that's what it isright.
They want to sit down and theywant to go through each and
every individual argument and Igo.
You guys are missing the biggerpoint of all of this.
It's not this one argument it'snot this one argument.
Even if you won this argumentand they won that argument, the
(06:15):
bigger point of all of this isyou're not getting what you want
.
Stop being a baby right and Iknow that sounds harsh and cold,
but at the end of the day,that's what it is.
And and, honestly, you knowwhat we lack in this country any
kind of yeah, humility, anykind of is that what you're
(06:36):
gonna say?
well, no, I was gonna say anykind of like being able to tell
someone stop being a baby right,stop stomping your feet, stop
trying to get your own way right, like you see it, all the time
you see it, and like I was gonnasay you see it we had the
disease that shall not be named,and people are literally
punching other people in theface for toilet paper and I go
(07:00):
and that's that's the mentalitywe live in.
Right, we live in very, and thisis why I said we would come
back to selfishness.
Debbie (07:07):
I was going to say that goes right back to selfishness.
Josh (07:09):
It all roots from there, right, Because we live in this.
How dare you take from me Right?
Going back to James.
Debbie (07:17):
Right.
Josh (07:17):
You desire and do not have .
Debbie (07:19):
So you quarrel.
Josh (07:19):
Quarrel, I love that word.
Because I deserve this.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm going to go ahead realeasy, real plain, like right.
Here's how you end every singleargument, every argument you
don't ever want to argue in yourmarriage.
Here's how you do it.
Debbie (07:37):
I'm listening.
Josh (07:38):
Put the other person above yourself.
Mm-hmm.
Again we look throughPhilippians.
Count others as more thanyourself.
Again we look throughPhilippians count others as more
than yourself Serve.
Do you understand how you willstop arguing if you go?
It's not about me.
Right.
Right, like had I go back tothat water illustration.
(08:01):
Not that that was a realargument, but hypothetically
speaking, and for those of youthat can't see, I did do air
quotes, hypothetically speaking,you did it again if that was a
real argument.
What if?
What if, instead of me gettingmad jumping up grabbing my cup,
(08:22):
knowing forget you, I'll just goget my own water?
What if I would have went?
Hey babe, like, no, like, canyou go now?
Debbie (08:30):
like I'm thirsty now right I'm like oh sure,
absolutely right, I was justgonna finish this, but no big
deal right I can go whatever orhad I just been like or or or
not even that Like what if I hadjust got up and got my own
water?
Josh (08:48):
I know that's crazy but, you know again, we don't live in
a mansion.
Debbie (08:53):
No, we don't.
Josh (08:54):
And I go, and that's it Honestly, that is the secret
right there.
You want a happy marriage?
Put your wife, put your husband, above yourself.
Debbie (09:01):
You want good quality children to grow to be good
human beings.
Show them what it's like to beselfless.
Josh (09:07):
Right, I go, and you don't understand the amount of.
Debbie (09:14):
What struggle and stress you could avoid.
Josh (09:16):
Yes, stress, stress.
Like you want an easier life.
Stop trying to win ateverything, and that's very hard
for me right, mr.
Debbie (09:25):
Competitive sports like your whole life.
Josh (09:29):
I yes, I am that person that you go.
I bet you can't like that's.
That's how my parents got me toclean my room right like my mom
would literally come in when Iwas little and go.
Well, I bet you can't cleanthis in the next 30 minutes and
I'll tell me what I can't do.
22 minutes all done you knowlike and I go, so I get it.
(09:50):
I get what it's like going.
Hey, I want to be the best.
But if we learn anything fromjesus, it's this like pilot is
is questioning jesus and he'slike hey, don't you know that I
hold your life in my hand?
And Jesus's response to Pilateis this you don't hold my now
I'm paraphrasing, but it's youdon't hold my life in your hands
(10:12):
.
I lay my life down.
Right?
That's what Jesus tells him.
Right, I lay my life down sothat I may pick it back up
because, ultimately, I amcontrol of me.
Right.
So, when it comes to an argumentand and we were just talking
about this last week I always,when we get done having any kind
of an argument, look back andinstead of going what could
(10:35):
Debbie have done better, so thatI wouldn't have gotten mad, I
always look back and I go whatcould I have done different?
to avoid that argument.
I always look back and I gowhat could I have done different
to avoid that argument, was it?
You know, could I have saidsomething different, could I
have looked at somethingdifferent, could I have put
myself out a little bit more toavoid that argument?
Debbie (10:56):
And you know what, there'll be people listening to
this and they're like well, thatjust makes you a pushover and
people just walk all over you.
Josh (11:03):
That's not true.
I don't know if you know, josh.
Well, not just that, but likeif you think being meek makes
you weak right try being meekfor a week, in the words of I
think it's kb I think it's kb gooff, kb um I go it takes energy
and effort, and I mean it.
Debbie (11:22):
It takes a lot to lay all that down, but think, think
about that.
Josh (11:25):
That's the illustration we were given in Jesus, right, he
is the God man, like he is GodIn Matthew 28, 20,.
He says it or 20, 28, I'm sorry.
He says it very plainly, right,I did not come to be served,
but I came to serve and to givemy life a ransom for many.
That's why, when we get toEphesians five and Paul says hey
(11:46):
, husbands, love your wife orwives submit to your husbands,
right, and like I remember wehad been married maybe five
years.
No, it was longer than that.
Debbie (11:58):
Oh yeah, it was longer than that.
Josh (11:59):
Like maybe five years or so.
I don't, yeah, maybe JT was born.
I don't, yeah, maybe JT wasborn, I don't know.
But anyway, we had been marriedfor a length of time, it was
longer than just a year.
And we were talking one day andI was like I had said something
.
You, you had come out with somekind of snarky remark and and,
uh, I was like Deb, you took avow to obey me.
(12:20):
And you, you were like like, uh, I don't know what wedding you
were at, but uh, no, that wasnot part of my vows.
And I was like, yeah, it's partof the vows, like you know, to
to love and obey and you werelike what?
no, no, no, no, no, hold up,hold up.
And I was like well, and thebible says it oh, that's when I
was like yep, and you're likethe bible doesn't say that.
(12:42):
Just like a modern feminist.
Right.
And so we open up the bible andright there in ephesians 5,
right wives submit.
And I was like, hmm, yep, andyou're like the Bible doesn't
say that.
Just like a modern feministMm-hmm, right.
And so we open up the Bible andright there in Ephesians 5,
right Wives submit to yourhusband as unto the Lord.
Mm-hmm, we live in a societywhere that word submission is a
bad word.
Debbie (12:56):
Though, mm-hmm, I will tell you I read that For women
and I I was like I don't everremember seeing that.
Josh (13:04):
Well, the churches you grew up in might not have ever
preached that.
They did not.
I mean, when you have a pastoraup there.
Debbie (13:10):
Yep.
That is literally why it wouldnever Yep.
That is true.
Josh (13:15):
And I go you know, not just that, though, but I go like
I remember you just being likein awe, right, oh my God, I
can't believe this is actuallyin here and and for any men
listening right now, they goyeah see, submit, right, if she
would just submit, I would doeverything else.
If you would just lead, okay,but here, well, not just that,
(13:36):
because right after that versehe goes husbands, love your
wives, as christ loved thechurch and gave his life up for
her.
Well, how did?
How did jesus love the church?
Well, I came not to be served,but to serve he died for her so,
husbands, you know what yourrole is.
Your role is to do that.
Your role is to lay everythingdown for your wife, right?
So if I want to stop and arguewith my wife, what if I just
(13:59):
swallow my pride?
What if I go?
Hey, I don't have to be righton this, right.
What if I go?
Hey, you know what?
You're right, it's not worthfighting for the next three days
right and and again.
That was a new concept to me,because I don't like to lose
nope and I go.
(14:20):
You know so our first couple ofyears of marriage it was.
It was hard for me, it wasinteresting, you know.
So our first couple of years ofmarriage, it was hard for me,
it was interesting.
You know, because, like thematter you would get, I would go
.
I'm going to go one levelhigher and if you don't know, I
mean Debbie's Spanish, likethey're not known for keeping
their cool right Feisty andspicy, and me, being german,
irish it just yeah we tried totake over the world and you
(14:43):
threw alcohol in the mix.
It was just like okay, but thatthat's that's a totally yeah,
that's something totallydifferent.
But like I was saying like, soyou would get mad, I would.
Debbie (14:54):
I would try to one-up right, right and then by the end
of consistently two days, itwas like what the heck even?
And it was something so stupidand minute that started it but?
Josh (15:02):
But boys to men say it the best right.
You know, we don't even knowwhat we argue about, Don't?
Even say love you no more,because saying how we feel is no
longer allowed.
Oh my goodness, I don't know ifyou're listening.
Hey, but if you know what thatsong is.
Good for you, comments on that,I don't know, comment somewhere
(15:30):
.
Say something instagram,facebook, somewhere.
Debbie (15:32):
You you heard about this podcast from somewhere.
Right comment there, but I goagain.
It's sitting here going.
Josh (15:33):
Let me treat like jesus right, treat up, treat others
like jesus, right, it's sittinghere going.
Let me act how jesus would haveacted.
I mean, you know, pilot, youknow again, think about the
crucifixion man.
Like you have the god of allthe universe sitting here and
getting beat and getting spit atand getting mocked and getting
you know the, the crown ofthorns and all of this, and and
you know when pilots questioningthem, you know he's like.
(15:53):
So is it true?
You're a King, kingdom?
And again, that's my paraphrasejesus goes my kingdom is not of
this world.
If it was my, my servants wouldfight for me and and basically
what he's saying in in englishand modern english is you don't
want that smoke right because,bro, like you don't understand,
like if I were to just go done
Debbie (16:15):
all of this is not just you take a breath in and
everybody would drop all of itlike the wood you were about to
nail me to.
Josh (16:21):
I hold together, like I created it for me, by me,
through me, like it is mine.
And yet he chooses to go thatroute.
Do you guys understand howimportant that is, like that
choice to go that route and Ithink for me, I always look at
it from.
Debbie (16:40):
I always take it back to like being a parent.
And I think for me, I alwayslook at it from.
I always take it back to likebeing a parent, like you want
kids that are selfless.
You have to be that example.
You have to be the one that'sgiving and serving and doing.
They have to see mom servingdad, they have to see dad
serving mom.
And you have to be careful whatyou say in front of them,
(17:03):
because they're going to pick upon those little cues, you know.
Josh (17:05):
But again, if, if I'm sitting here serving you, right,
what are you gonna get mad atright?
What are we gonna argue about?
Like, if I'm like here, baby,let me rub your feet at night,
what you?
What are you gonna be mad at mefor, right?
You know yeah absolutely, butthere's such but hey, I know you
really want to watch this on tvI think there's such an issue
of pride that has overtaken somany families, so many, you know
(17:28):
relationships.
Debbie (17:30):
It that super level of pride like kills so much of the
ability to go?
No, I'll do it, I'll take careof it.
Josh (17:39):
I'll do that for you right , but go back to treat others
the way Jesus did.
Debbie (17:46):
Do you understand?
I think people want that forthemselves and they say that,
but I don't think they reallyunderstand what it's like to put
that into practice because ittakes so much work.
Josh (17:56):
It does take work, it does .
Romans 12, 1, right Presentyour bodies as a living
sacrifice.
Do you know what happened tothe animals that got sacrificed?
What happened in their lives,what?
Debbie (18:09):
do you mean.
Josh (18:10):
If you sacrifice an animal , what happens to its life?
It ends it dies.
Right, it's done.
The reason why Paul inGalatians 3 or 2.
Debbie (18:19):
I thought you were going somewhere else.
I am Okay.
Josh (18:22):
I have been crucified with Christ.
It is no longer I who live, butChrist who lives in me Right Is
because, again, if I'm sittinghere saying this is what I
follow, this is how my lifeshould be Right, and we have to
understand that that takes workRight.
That goes against the natureyou already have the sinful
nature.
Debbie (18:40):
We have to be number one and to be to elevate ourselves
and yep you know, it's notnormal and this is much
weightier than I think peoplerealize.
Josh (18:51):
And it's much more difficult when you don't put
into practice to try to put itinto practice I think it's much
more weightier, but but again,luke 9, right Jesus said if
anyone's willing to follow afterme, pick up his cross, deny
himself daily and follow me.
Debbie (19:12):
That doesn't mean you're not going to get frustrated or
annoyed.
And it doesn't mean justbecause you're serving or doing
it doesn't always mean the otherperson's going to see.
Josh (19:21):
Or reciprocate.
Debbie (19:22):
Right.
Josh (19:23):
Because if you're doing, but that's the thing if I'm
doing.
Debbie (19:25):
What's your point of doing it?
Josh (19:26):
If I'm doing to get, then my doing to serve.
No, and at that point itbecomes transactional right.
Debbie (19:33):
Right, and then you literally lose all traction and
and merit by having thatargument.
Josh (19:41):
A hundred percent.
But think about it like and andthat's what happens in any
counseling session, right?
Any, I was a cop, right, pullup on a traffic accident, the
first thing out of the firstperson you go talk to his mouth,
it was their fault.
Right, you go talk to the otherperson, it was their fault
because, again, it is so anti,what's the word Uh?
Debbie (20:05):
not antithetical.
I love that word, but that'snot the word.
Josh (20:07):
It is antithetical to the gospel.
Debbie (20:09):
It is Um, but that's no counterculture, though Right
Cause.
Josh (20:13):
think about it, and this is an illustration I give in
sermons all the time.
Right, what were you taught asa kid?
You better not start a fight.
Where you taught as a kid?
You better not start a fight.
But you better finish it, butyou better finish it.
What does the Bible actuallyteach?
Debbie (20:25):
though, turn the other cheek.
As far as it depends on, you,live peacefully among each other
.
Josh (20:29):
There are 3.3 billion Christians in the world.
Nearly 50% of the world wouldidentify as a Christian.
What if all those peopleactually acted like Jesus?
But we're so afraid that if weactually acted like Jesus, that
people would take advantage ofus.
Debbie (20:47):
Because you don't want anyone to and I've heard it, not
just outside of church, I'veheard in church you don't want
people to walk all over you.
That's like the main thing thatyou hear people say.
Josh (21:00):
But yet people pay money for that.
That's true.
Oh, now we're on to somethinghuh, okay, a whole different.
That's fire, but that's whatI'm saying.
So, when I look at a marriage,right and and you know this
whole podcast right how do youwant to stop fighting with your
spouse?
Why don't love your spouse likechrist loved the church, laid
(21:21):
his life down for her wives,ifives?
If you're being submissivehusbands, if you're doing that,
if you're loving and leadinglike Jesus, you are not going to
argue Because, all of a sudden,what do you want for dinner?
Is not an opportunity for WorldWar III?
I already know what.
Debbie (21:39):
I'm getting for dinner tonight for you guys.
Josh (21:41):
Hold on.
What is it?
Because I want to see if you'rethinking like me.
Debbie (21:44):
I was going to go get you some chicken gnocchi soup.
Josh (21:46):
Nope, we weren't thinking alike.
Debbie (21:48):
No, what were you thinking?
Josh (21:49):
I was like I want tacos.
Debbie (21:51):
Did we really?
Yes, huh, I would not have.
And I almost thought that.
But then I was like no, no, hedoesn't want that.
I thought you wanted some warmsoup.
Josh (22:02):
Soup is not a meal, I know , but I was in a game.
We've had this conversationmany times, and that's the other
thing Learn to communicate witheach other, right?
You're going to havedisagreements.
There are things you're notgoing to see eye to eye on.
There was and I'm not going toget into it right now because it
doesn't belong on this podcastbut there was a that me and
Debbie did not see eye to eye on.
(22:23):
Oh geez, as far as when it comesto what scripture actually says
.
For how long it was?
An 18 month process ofconversation after conversation,
after conversation, after let'sbe honest heated discussions.
Debbie (22:35):
Yeah, I would get mad.
Josh (22:38):
I wouldn't.
I had the Bible on myself.
What would I get mad for?
Debbie (22:42):
I know I tried to get the Bible on my side.
It didn't work.
I couldn.
What would I get mad for?
I know I tried to get the bibleon my side.
It didn't work.
I couldn't bend.
I couldn't bend the bible to me.
I had to bend to what it saidbut again and this is something
some of- that was my pride,because I was like I can't, he
can't be right, because he'salways right.
Um, and by golly george, I justI finally, finally, have a
(23:02):
record of it I just want to beright on something.
Josh (23:06):
But my mom, I wasn't right .
My mom used to tell me all thetime a key to a happy marriage
is simple Put the other aboveyourself, because if I'm putting
you above me and you're puttingme above you.
Debbie (23:18):
We're outdoing each other in honor.
Josh (23:19):
Right.
What is there not to be happywith Right?
That's Romans 12.
What you just said, I right,that's romans.
12 well, you just said I know.
No, you didn't.
I did know that I did know that.
Okay, you say so and there's noway for me to prove whether you
knew that.
No, I should have.
Instead of going as romans 12,I should have went where is that
?
And then we would have knownbecause, like once you said I
(23:40):
know, now you do know here's thething I know it's in the bible.
I knew that but but see, we justhad a whole argument online
right here, live, well, not live, but kind of live, and I could
have cut this out of therecording, but I'm not going to,
because did you hear usactually laughing in the
(24:00):
argument?
and then, and now it's, and nowI know we're gonna get tacos and
I'll honest, like we have a lotof arguments where you were
just all of a sudden, look at meand go.
Why are you laughing?
Because that's how a lot of ourarguments end with me just
laughing because you made a faceor you said something funny or
you messed up on your words.
Debbie (24:18):
Or tripped up on my words.
Josh (24:19):
Or you said something backwards.
Debbie (24:27):
And I will tell you, the funniest thing to me is you're
the only person I can trip up onmy words like that.
Josh (24:29):
See, I just did it just now.
It's all checked up.
We weren't even arguing and Igo, but that's what it is right
like.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
It's super, super simple but we won't do it
because it takes effort, ittakes a lot of work selfishness,
oh my gosh yeah, I told you.
Josh (24:45):
I told you that would tie back in.
Debbie (24:46):
I just didn't want to give it away and like then
everyone's like well, I don'tneed to listen to this episode
again I think people know it'sselfishness, but how many times
you hear people go nope, I'mtired, I'm gonna get mine, I'm
gonna get mine uh, that is theculture we live in and we, I
mean I just, I don't know, wesee it every day, just but
understand.
Josh (25:06):
You're teaching your kids that too and that's.
Debbie (25:08):
It's hard because I don't always want to bring up,
you know, because we're aroundkids all the time.
But, god, we do see it in kidsevery single day and it's like,
it's scary because that's thenext generation yeah and they're
selfish and they'reself-centered and you have a few
that are fighting through tonot be like that.
It's in the words of Gloriait's a doggy dog world.
Josh (25:30):
Center, but I go, that's it.
That's the big secret rightthere, right.
Like yeah there are all sortsof techniques, right Sure, like
oh, we get too mad, we take abreak, we, you know calm down,
write down all the great thingsthey did Like.
Debbie (25:45):
There we get too mad.
We take a break.
We, you know.
Calm down, write down all thegreat things they did Like.
Josh (25:46):
There are a lot of different tools and some CBTs
you can do and I'm not sayingthat those don't have a time and
a place, like there havedefinitely been arguments we've
gotten into where I've been like, hey, look like.
Or you've been like, hey, look,you know we're not talking
about this right now.
(26:07):
When we're less emotionallycharged um in emotions.
That's a whole another one, andwe know that's a whole
different episode, don't even.
But.
But you know I'm not sayingthose things aren't beneficial,
and I'm not saying those thingsdon't work.
What I am saying, though, is,if you start from a position of
like, you can choose not toargue like.
That is a choice it is.
Debbie (26:22):
That's sure you don't always have to say something
right and I'm not saying thatthere aren't other issues you
need to work on right you know,like, if it's turning violent,
like get to safety buteverything, but that's, that's
true, right, everything does nothave to be a fight or an
argument.
You can literally, and you knowwhat.
I don't remember who it was, Iwas listening to, they were
(26:43):
talking.
They said was it wise it waswise smart, it was smart they
said, sometimes the best thingyou can do is know the other
person is wrong and let it go.
I do this all the time whetherit's you or our children but
(27:07):
they were saying you know, youlook at jesus, who did nothing
wrong, took that beating on thecross, died, suffered, and he
did nothing wrong, but he tookthe blame.
Sometimes you can take theblame and nod and agree and just
go.
Okay, I'm just glad you came tothat conclusion.
That's what I said like 10minutes ago.
Sometimes you can take theblame and nod and agree and just
go okay.
Josh (27:27):
I'm just glad you came to that conclusion.
That's what I said like 10minutes ago.
Okay, that's why I kept goingback to like look at the
crucifixion.
I know, but I was just Jesuschose.
Like if anybody deserved to beserved, right, it would have
been Jesus, right.
Debbie (27:44):
But a lot of people don't want to like.
But I'm right, I'm right, I'mright, I'm right, and they fight
for that.
And then you're right, and thenyou've ruined relationships and
you've ended, you've ended,yeah yeah, you're all by
yourself, right, but hey awesomeyou're right, all by yourself,
yeah, because there's, there'sother ways you can get to that
(28:06):
point of being right right.
Josh (28:08):
There are other conversations that you can have.
Debbie (28:10):
It doesn't always have to be hostile, and at that
moment you can wait a few days,you can in debbie's case.
Josh (28:17):
I mean, she's waited years and brought stuff back up wow
what lies are being told, wowthat's true, that is true and
you know and I go, but but againit really just boils down to it
is a choice to argue, and ifyou don't want to argue, don't
don't argue.
(28:37):
I'll tell you right now.
If I really want to get debbiemad, I just have to go, you're
right, she'll work herself intoa tizzy.
I'll be like what you get madfor?
I literally go, you're right,she'll work herself into a tizzy
.
I'll be like what'd you get madfor?
I literally just said you'reright, that gets me really mad.
And apparently, apparently thatwasn't what she was wanting in
that moment?
(28:58):
No, it was not.
But I go again.
Like you're choosing to argue,choose not to Choose to sit here
and go.
You know what I'm going tohandle this, the way that jesus
handled this.
I'm going to serve, you know,and enough with the silent
treatment.
Debbie (29:13):
That doesn't work no all you're doing is you're, you're
showing how much of a child youare you're playing emotional
chicken like I bet.
I can go longer and thedangerous game is when you don't
always know how the otherperson's gonna respond, and that
might be that time where theygo I'm not gonna lie.
Josh (29:33):
Debbie called me bud the other night like we're going to
bed.
You know, we normally go.
We normally go, hey, I love you.
I love you, you know, have agood night's sleep and she's
like all right, bud, and I waslike what?
And so now, every once in awhile, I just like emotionally
close myself off, you know.
(29:53):
So she can see how that feels.
So here's the deal, because Ican do that easy.
Debbie (29:58):
No, here's the deal.
I was going to call you babeand honey at the same time, and
that gonna call you babe andhoney at the same time.
And that was that week that Icould not get anything right.
I just couldn't say the rightthing.
My brain just felt like it wason overload.
So I was gonna say honey andbabe.
And then it all came togetherand I called you, but she
(30:20):
doesn't like it.
Josh (30:21):
It's like we're going to bed and I'm like all right, bud,
bud give me a little pat on myshoulder.
Have a good night.
Hopefully we'll wake uptomorrow.
We can get it right.
Debbie (30:30):
And he will just randomly do that which dress?
Josh (30:36):
But again, like I go, it's easy.
It's simple.
You want to stop arguing inyour marriage.
Debbie (30:44):
It's super simple and have fun with each other.
Love your spouse.
Josh (30:46):
Love your spouse the way that Jesus loves you.
Debbie (30:49):
And get tacos for them Again.
Josh (30:50):
think about it right In Matthew 22, the lawyer trying to
chip up Jesus.
What's he say?
Right, what's the greatestcommandment, Jesus, what you got
?
And he's like hey, the greatestcommandment is this Love lord
your god with all your heart,mind, body and soul.
And what's the?
And the second one is like itlove others whether you love
yourself.
Understand if we did those twothings, because jesus does go on
(31:12):
to say that on this depends allthe law and the prophets right
the first four commandments andthe ten commandments deal with
our relationship with god and ifyou love god with all your
heart, mind, body and soul, youare going to keep all four of
those commandments right and ifyou love others the way that you
love you.
That is the other sixcommandments.
They deal with our relationshipwith each other.
Right.
And guess what happens then.
(31:34):
Like you have now kept all 10commandments by doing what
Properly loving God and properlyloving others.
Debbie (31:43):
Right, and I mean when you're serving people you got
time to be pill paddle arguing.
And you?
You don't realize the chemicalchange that can happen in your
brain.
You feel better when you'redoing stuff for other people.
Josh (31:56):
Get addicted, you do Get high on your own supply, kinda
that's what happens, gettingthat Jesus stuff on.
Yeah, that's right getting thatjesus stuff on.
Yeah, that's right and that'swhere I go.
Honestly, like you choose toargue, you choose to be angry,
you choose to be curmudgeon, youchoose all of that.
Yep, like I agree, all ofthat's a choice.
Like you can be angry okay,being angry isn't a choice.
(32:19):
Like you can't choose youremotions, right, you can choose
what you do with them, though.
That's why paul in ephesianswould tell you you know, be
angry and send not right likeyou're gonna get angry.
Things are gonna happen.
You know your, your significantother, is going to make you
angry your kids are gonna makeyou angry and instead of
reacting out of that love theway that jesus loves and go.
Debbie (32:43):
Hey, it really hurt my feelings when you blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah and if you'reconstantly loving, serving and
doing, you can be proactive andthat way, when something comes
up, that reaction, you won't bereactive and it won't turn into
an explosive situation right,but I go.
Josh (33:02):
There's a different.
If I came to you and I was likehey, deb, you really hurt my
feelings when you whatever yousaid that you called me bud, um,
that opens up a conversation,right.
If you call me bud, though andI'm like you know, f you right
that opens up an argument.
Right like you, you see howit's the same thing you're
(33:25):
trying to get to the same result.
Debbie (33:27):
Just two different ways to get there.
Josh (33:29):
Right, very different Right, vastly different.
One is going to cause like aweek long war zone at the house.
Debbie (33:35):
And the other one could be, you know, a 10 minute
conversation.
One's like a nice smooth drivedown the way.
Josh (33:47):
And the other ones.
You're going to get into anaccident every step of the way,
right, and I go and understandat the end you're the only one
who can control you, right?
So if you're waiting for theother one to change, that's not
going to work what do I startevery marriage counseling
session I ever do with?
Debbie (33:57):
if you, if they never change, are you willing to stay
like with them for the rest ofyour life, knowing they're never
going to change?
Right, because if you walk intothis going, here's my
stipulation right throw it outthe window, you're done right,
and I'm not saying people won'thave stipulations, like some
people do, but that that canpermanently alter your
(34:17):
relationship.
Josh (34:17):
Well, just understand.
You have stipulations, you haveexpectations.
It's going to lead you to anargument right and I'm not
saying like don't?
Debbie (34:25):
he's not saying put up with everything and anything he
hits me and cheats on me all thetime like obviously I would not
be like hey well right that'swhat he's a terrible dad.
He treats our children poorly.
He hits right like obviouslythere are extenuating
circumstances, sure I am talkingabout just regular
run-of-the-mill arguments thoughright, like you know, he's
(34:45):
bringing home aids to you.
Obviously I wouldn't be like, ohyou should just stay with him,
right you know, and you wentsideways fast on that one well,
I just go.
You know I'm trying to think oflike every possible you know
you've got to have some standardof some sort right, not saying
just but that doesn't contradictwhat I'm saying.
No, no, at the same time likebecause if someone and that's a
(35:07):
whole nother episode men beingmen, women being like, that's a
whole well, it's more than anepisode there.
Josh (35:13):
You could do a whole podcast on just men, just that
that's true so I'll tell youwhat.
Debbie (35:18):
That's a hot topic, but that's again a whole nother time
, so I hope you gained somethingfrom it.
Josh (35:22):
Hope you learned something from it.
Hope you learned something fromit.
Hope you know how not to arguewith your spouse.
How to get out of everyargument is simple Just just
don't argue, Be Jesus.
To one another.
Debbie (35:33):
That's right.
Josh (35:34):
So until next time, we love you.
We thank you.
Make sure you share this cause.
We can't do this without you.
Debbie (35:40):
Bye guys.
Hey, are you looking for a way to finish every single
argument and never argue againwith your spouse?
Debbie (00:06):
Yes.
Josh (00:07):
Well, welcome to Faith Family Fishing and on this
episode, that's what we get into, debbie and Josh here.
(00:37):
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode and, as the intro said,
we are going to get into how tonever, ever, ever again, ever
argue with your spouse and I'mgoing to be honest, it's super,
super easy.
Like it is way easier than thefour or five day arguments or
(00:59):
the back-to-back arguments orany of that, but Okay.
But, as you can hear, one of usmyself is feeling under the
weather and luckily for Debbie.
I am such a manly man.
Debbie (01:11):
Such a champ.
Josh (01:13):
So here we are recording.
Debbie (01:15):
Although he did put his head back and I thought for a
brief moment he was going tofall asleep and it was going to
be an interesting episode all bymyself.
Josh (01:25):
Well, I'm sure you could have handled it, said some stuff
Just all by yourself.
Debbie (01:29):
All by myself.
Josh (01:30):
So here's the thing You're married, you're dating, you're
in a relationship of any kind.
Because, honestly, this advicecan go to any relationship.
Right.
I think the first thing we needto look at is what causes
arguments what does the biblesay?
Well in james.
(01:50):
It would tell you what causesfights among you.
Isn't it this that you desireand do not have?
so you quarrel, I like that wordquarrel um, and, and that is
that is true um, I think it's alittle broader of a definition
selfishness all well, everythingeverything, everything
(02:12):
everything is just birthed outof selfishness, um and we're
going to get into that in asecond but I think you argue
because of unmet expectation,right?
Your expectation was x, y or z,right they?
Debbie (02:26):
the other person did not meet that expectation.
Josh (02:29):
So right now there's an argument, right, you know a lot
of people.
Oh well, it's a difference ofopinion.
Yeah, it's an unmet expectationmy expectation was this your
opinion was different, differentthan theirs right and, and
let's be honest, we live in atime now where being divisive
and arguing and that's the nameof the game.
Debbie (02:48):
That's the norm across the board.
Josh (02:50):
And here's the tactic I'm going to yell louder than you.
And when that doesn't work, I'mgoing to just smear your name,
to cancel you or whatever it isnowadays and when.
When that doesn't work, I'mgonna try to turn everybody
against you oh, absolutely and Igo.
(03:10):
Why, though?
Why do we argue the way we dolike think about it?
We just passed the holidays,right?
I mean, it's the end of january, you know.
So you made it throughthanksgiving, you made it
through christmas, you made itthrough new year's you know, you
made it through the electioninauguration which was for some
people for some people.
Debbie (03:29):
I didn't think they were gonna make it right.
Josh (03:31):
However, you, you made it through all that with with your
family, right, and and one ofthe things we we talk about a
lot of church is, this time ofyear, you're gonna be around a
lot of people that you're notaround a lot right um, you know
and, and everybody's heard theadage right, you don't talk
about politics or religionbecause those just cause
(03:51):
arguments and and I go.
Why, though?
they shouldn't like.
Why are there any topics thatwe can't talk about?
Because it's going to cause anargument.
And I go and, honestly, it isjust that it is sitting here and
going.
Well, I thought that's thatexpectation and in reality it
(04:14):
hit totally different than whatI thought it would.
So, for example, not that meand Debbie argue ever I mean
happiest marriage in the world,we argue at all.
But if we were hypotheticallyhypothetically to argue.
It would go something like thishey, deb, can you go to the
kitchen, get me some water surey'all, y'all hear how
(04:41):
uncomfortable that silence was.
Right that that's like how longI'm waiting for Debbie to get up
out of bed to grab my cup, togo to the kitchen get me some
water.
And it's not that we live inthis mansion, but like I just
thought, you know, debbie couldgo get my water for me or
something.
So then, now that it'suncomfortable, I get up, grab my
water cup, go to the kitchen.
Before I even make it to thedoor, debbie's already yelling,
(05:08):
right, yelling, maybe a strongword okay, yeah, that was debbie
is already on the defense,though.
Right, I said I would get yousome water and I went right.
But I meant now, like I didn'twant water half an hour from now
, like I, I was asking you to goget it now, and then, next
thing you know, you're arguingand and sometimes it's hey,
(05:32):
we'll remember five years later,or five years ago, years ago
you said blah blah and it's likethis started with I asked you
for water I asked you for afavor, and if you would have
asked me for that favor, I knowI would have went and done it,
so I expected you to do the samething.
There's that unmet expectation,right, and a lot of times like
(05:52):
when you do counseling, likemarriage counseling or anything
like that that's what it isright.
They want to sit down and theywant to go through each and
every individual argument and Igo.
You guys are missing the biggerpoint of all of this.
It's not this one argument it'snot this one argument.
Even if you won this argumentand they won that argument, the
(06:15):
bigger point of all of this isyou're not getting what you want
.
Stop being a baby right and Iknow that sounds harsh and cold,
but at the end of the day,that's what it is.
And and, honestly, you knowwhat we lack in this country any
kind of yeah, humility, anykind of is that what you're
(06:36):
gonna say?
well, no, I was gonna say anykind of like being able to tell
someone stop being a baby right,stop stomping your feet, stop
trying to get your own way right, like you see it, all the time
you see it, and like I was gonnasay you see it we had the
disease that shall not be named,and people are literally
punching other people in theface for toilet paper and I go
(07:00):
and that's that's the mentalitywe live in.
Right, we live in very, and thisis why I said we would come
back to selfishness.
Debbie (07:07):
I was going to say that goes right back to selfishness.
Josh (07:09):
It all roots from there, right, Because we live in this.
How dare you take from me Right?
Going back to James.
Debbie (07:17):
Right.
Josh (07:17):
You desire and do not have .
Debbie (07:19):
So you quarrel.
Josh (07:19):
Quarrel, I love that word.
Because I deserve this.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm going to go ahead realeasy, real plain, like right.
Here's how you end every singleargument, every argument you
don't ever want to argue in yourmarriage.
Here's how you do it.
Debbie (07:37):
I'm listening.
Josh (07:38):
Put the other person above yourself.
Mm-hmm.
Again we look throughPhilippians.
Count others as more thanyourself.
Again we look throughPhilippians count others as more
than yourself Serve.
Do you understand how you willstop arguing if you go?
It's not about me.
Right.
Right, like had I go back tothat water illustration.
(08:01):
Not that that was a realargument, but hypothetically
speaking, and for those of youthat can't see, I did do air
quotes, hypothetically speaking,you did it again if that was a
real argument.
What if?
What if, instead of me gettingmad jumping up grabbing my cup,
(08:22):
knowing forget you, I'll just goget my own water?
What if I would have went?
Hey babe, like, no, like, canyou go now?
Debbie (08:30):
like I'm thirsty now right I'm like oh sure,
absolutely right, I was justgonna finish this, but no big
deal right I can go whatever orhad I just been like or or or
not even that Like what if I hadjust got up and got my own
water?
Josh (08:48):
I know that's crazy but, you know again, we don't live in
a mansion.
Debbie (08:53):
No, we don't.
Josh (08:54):
And I go, and that's it Honestly, that is the secret
right there.
You want a happy marriage?
Put your wife, put your husband, above yourself.
Debbie (09:01):
You want good quality children to grow to be good
human beings.
Show them what it's like to beselfless.
Josh (09:07):
Right, I go, and you don't understand the amount of.
Debbie (09:14):
What struggle and stress you could avoid.
Josh (09:16):
Yes, stress, stress.
Like you want an easier life.
Stop trying to win ateverything, and that's very hard
for me right, mr.
Debbie (09:25):
Competitive sports like your whole life.
Josh (09:29):
I yes, I am that person that you go.
I bet you can't like that's.
That's how my parents got me toclean my room right like my mom
would literally come in when Iwas little and go.
Well, I bet you can't cleanthis in the next 30 minutes and
I'll tell me what I can't do.
22 minutes all done you knowlike and I go, so I get it.
(09:50):
I get what it's like going.
Hey, I want to be the best.
But if we learn anything fromjesus, it's this like pilot is
is questioning jesus and he'slike hey, don't you know that I
hold your life in my hand?
And Jesus's response to Pilateis this you don't hold my now
I'm paraphrasing, but it's youdon't hold my life in your hands
(10:12):
.
I lay my life down.
Right?
That's what Jesus tells him.
Right, I lay my life down sothat I may pick it back up
because, ultimately, I amcontrol of me.
Right.
So, when it comes to an argumentand and we were just talking
about this last week I always,when we get done having any kind
of an argument, look back andinstead of going what could
(10:35):
Debbie have done better, so thatI wouldn't have gotten mad, I
always look back and I go whatcould I have done different?
to avoid that argument.
I always look back and I gowhat could I have done different
to avoid that argument, was it?
You know, could I have saidsomething different, could I
have looked at somethingdifferent, could I have put
myself out a little bit more toavoid that argument?
Debbie (10:56):
And you know what, there'll be people listening to
this and they're like well, thatjust makes you a pushover and
people just walk all over you.
Josh (11:03):
That's not true.
I don't know if you know, josh.
Well, not just that, but likeif you think being meek makes
you weak right try being meekfor a week, in the words of I
think it's kb I think it's kb gooff, kb um I go it takes energy
and effort, and I mean it.
Debbie (11:22):
It takes a lot to lay all that down, but think, think
about that.
Josh (11:25):
That's the illustration we were given in Jesus, right, he
is the God man, like he is GodIn Matthew 28, 20,.
He says it or 20, 28, I'm sorry.
He says it very plainly, right,I did not come to be served,
but I came to serve and to givemy life a ransom for many.
That's why, when we get toEphesians five and Paul says hey
(11:46):
, husbands, love your wife orwives submit to your husbands,
right, and like I remember wehad been married maybe five
years.
No, it was longer than that.
Debbie (11:58):
Oh yeah, it was longer than that.
Josh (11:59):
Like maybe five years or so.
I don't, yeah, maybe JT was born.
I don't, yeah, maybe JT wasborn, I don't know.
But anyway, we had been marriedfor a length of time, it was
longer than just a year.
And we were talking one day andI was like I had said something
.
You, you had come out with somekind of snarky remark and and,
uh, I was like Deb, you took avow to obey me.
(12:20):
And you, you were like like, uh, I don't know what wedding you
were at, but uh, no, that wasnot part of my vows.
And I was like, yeah, it's partof the vows, like you know, to
to love and obey and you werelike what?
no, no, no, no, no, hold up,hold up.
And I was like well, and thebible says it oh, that's when I
was like yep, and you're likethe bible doesn't say that.
(12:42):
Just like a modern feminist.
Right.
And so we open up the bible andright there in ephesians 5,
right wives submit.
And I was like, hmm, yep, andyou're like the Bible doesn't
say that.
Just like a modern feministMm-hmm, right.
And so we open up the Bible andright there in Ephesians 5,
right Wives submit to yourhusband as unto the Lord.
Mm-hmm, we live in a societywhere that word submission is a
bad word.
Debbie (12:56):
Though, mm-hmm, I will tell you I read that For women
and I I was like I don't everremember seeing that.
Josh (13:04):
Well, the churches you grew up in might not have ever
preached that.
They did not.
I mean, when you have a pastoraup there.
Debbie (13:10):
Yep.
That is literally why it wouldnever Yep.
That is true.
Josh (13:15):
And I go you know, not just that, though, but I go like
I remember you just being likein awe, right, oh my God, I
can't believe this is actuallyin here and and for any men
listening right now, they goyeah see, submit, right, if she
would just submit, I would doeverything else.
If you would just lead, okay,but here, well, not just that,
(13:36):
because right after that versehe goes husbands, love your
wives, as christ loved thechurch and gave his life up for
her.
Well, how did?
How did jesus love the church?
Well, I came not to be served,but to serve he died for her so,
husbands, you know what yourrole is.
Your role is to do that.
Your role is to lay everythingdown for your wife, right?
So if I want to stop and arguewith my wife, what if I just
(13:59):
swallow my pride?
What if I go?
Hey, I don't have to be righton this, right.
What if I go?
Hey, you know what?
You're right, it's not worthfighting for the next three days
right and and again.
That was a new concept to me,because I don't like to lose
nope and I go.
(14:20):
You know so our first couple ofyears of marriage it was.
It was hard for me, it wasinteresting, you know.
So our first couple of years ofmarriage, it was hard for me,
it was interesting.
You know, because, like thematter you would get, I would go
.
I'm going to go one levelhigher and if you don't know, I
mean Debbie's Spanish, likethey're not known for keeping
their cool right Feisty andspicy, and me, being german,
irish it just yeah we tried totake over the world and you
(14:43):
threw alcohol in the mix.
It was just like okay, but thatthat's that's a totally yeah,
that's something totallydifferent.
But like I was saying like, soyou would get mad, I would.
Debbie (14:54):
I would try to one-up right, right and then by the end
of consistently two days, itwas like what the heck even?
And it was something so stupidand minute that started it but?
Josh (15:02):
But boys to men say it the best right.
You know, we don't even knowwhat we argue about, Don't?
Even say love you no more,because saying how we feel is no
longer allowed.
Oh my goodness, I don't know ifyou're listening.
Hey, but if you know what thatsong is.
Good for you, comments on that,I don't know, comment somewhere
(15:30):
.
Say something instagram,facebook, somewhere.
Debbie (15:32):
You you heard about this podcast from somewhere.
Right comment there, but I goagain.
It's sitting here going.
Josh (15:33):
Let me treat like jesus right, treat up, treat others
like jesus, right, it's sittinghere going.
Let me act how jesus would haveacted.
I mean, you know, pilot, youknow again, think about the
crucifixion man.
Like you have the god of allthe universe sitting here and
getting beat and getting spit atand getting mocked and getting
you know the, the crown ofthorns and all of this, and and
you know when pilots questioningthem, you know he's like.
(15:53):
So is it true?
You're a King, kingdom?
And again, that's my paraphrasejesus goes my kingdom is not of
this world.
If it was my, my servants wouldfight for me and and basically
what he's saying in in englishand modern english is you don't
want that smoke right because,bro, like you don't understand,
like if I were to just go done
Debbie (16:15):
all of this is not just you take a breath in and
everybody would drop all of itlike the wood you were about to
nail me to.
Josh (16:21):
I hold together, like I created it for me, by me,
through me, like it is mine.
And yet he chooses to go thatroute.
Do you guys understand howimportant that is, like that
choice to go that route and Ithink for me, I always look at
it from.
Debbie (16:40):
I always take it back to like being a parent.
And I think for me, I alwayslook at it from.
I always take it back to likebeing a parent, like you want
kids that are selfless.
You have to be that example.
You have to be the one that'sgiving and serving and doing.
They have to see mom servingdad, they have to see dad
serving mom.
And you have to be careful whatyou say in front of them,
(17:03):
because they're going to pick upon those little cues, you know.
Josh (17:05):
But again, if, if I'm sitting here serving you, right,
what are you gonna get mad atright?
What are we gonna argue about?
Like, if I'm like here, baby,let me rub your feet at night,
what you?
What are you gonna be mad at mefor, right?
You know yeah absolutely, butthere's such but hey, I know you
really want to watch this on tvI think there's such an issue
of pride that has overtaken somany families, so many, you know
(17:28):
relationships.
Debbie (17:30):
It that super level of pride like kills so much of the
ability to go?
No, I'll do it, I'll take careof it.
Josh (17:39):
I'll do that for you right , but go back to treat others
the way Jesus did.
Debbie (17:46):
Do you understand?
I think people want that forthemselves and they say that,
but I don't think they reallyunderstand what it's like to put
that into practice because ittakes so much work.
Josh (17:56):
It does take work, it does .
Romans 12, 1, right Presentyour bodies as a living
sacrifice.
Do you know what happened tothe animals that got sacrificed?
What happened in their lives,what?
Debbie (18:09):
do you mean.
Josh (18:10):
If you sacrifice an animal , what happens to its life?
It ends it dies.
Right, it's done.
The reason why Paul inGalatians 3 or 2.
Debbie (18:19):
I thought you were going somewhere else.
I am Okay.
Josh (18:22):
I have been crucified with Christ.
It is no longer I who live, butChrist who lives in me Right Is
because, again, if I'm sittinghere saying this is what I
follow, this is how my lifeshould be Right, and we have to
understand that that takes workRight.
That goes against the natureyou already have the sinful
nature.
Debbie (18:40):
We have to be number one and to be to elevate ourselves
and yep you know, it's notnormal and this is much
weightier than I think peoplerealize.
Josh (18:51):
And it's much more difficult when you don't put
into practice to try to put itinto practice I think it's much
more weightier, but but again,luke 9, right Jesus said if
anyone's willing to follow afterme, pick up his cross, deny
himself daily and follow me.
Debbie (19:12):
That doesn't mean you're not going to get frustrated or
annoyed.
And it doesn't mean justbecause you're serving or doing
it doesn't always mean the otherperson's going to see.
Josh (19:21):
Or reciprocate.
Debbie (19:22):
Right.
Josh (19:23):
Because if you're doing, but that's the thing if I'm
doing.
Debbie (19:25):
What's your point of doing it?
Josh (19:26):
If I'm doing to get, then my doing to serve.
No, and at that point itbecomes transactional right.
Debbie (19:33):
Right, and then you literally lose all traction and
and merit by having thatargument.
Josh (19:41):
A hundred percent.
But think about it like and andthat's what happens in any
counseling session, right?
Any, I was a cop, right, pullup on a traffic accident, the
first thing out of the firstperson you go talk to his mouth,
it was their fault.
Right, you go talk to the otherperson, it was their fault
because, again, it is so anti,what's the word Uh?
Debbie (20:05):
not antithetical.
I love that word, but that'snot the word.
Josh (20:07):
It is antithetical to the gospel.
Debbie (20:09):
It is Um, but that's no counterculture, though Right
Cause.
Josh (20:13):
think about it, and this is an illustration I give in
sermons all the time.
Right, what were you taught asa kid?
You better not start a fight.
Where you taught as a kid?
You better not start a fight.
But you better finish it, butyou better finish it.
What does the Bible actuallyteach?
Debbie (20:25):
though, turn the other cheek.
As far as it depends on, you,live peacefully among each other
.
Josh (20:29):
There are 3.3 billion Christians in the world.
Nearly 50% of the world wouldidentify as a Christian.
What if all those peopleactually acted like Jesus?
But we're so afraid that if weactually acted like Jesus, that
people would take advantage ofus.
Debbie (20:47):
Because you don't want anyone to and I've heard it, not
just outside of church, I'veheard in church you don't want
people to walk all over you.
That's like the main thing thatyou hear people say.
Josh (21:00):
But yet people pay money for that.
That's true.
Oh, now we're on to somethinghuh, okay, a whole different.
That's fire, but that's whatI'm saying.
So, when I look at a marriage,right and and you know this
whole podcast right how do youwant to stop fighting with your
spouse?
Why don't love your spouse likechrist loved the church, laid
(21:21):
his life down for her wives,ifives?
If you're being submissivehusbands, if you're doing that,
if you're loving and leadinglike Jesus, you are not going to
argue Because, all of a sudden,what do you want for dinner?
Is not an opportunity for WorldWar III?
I already know what.
Debbie (21:39):
I'm getting for dinner tonight for you guys.
Josh (21:41):
Hold on.
What is it?
Because I want to see if you'rethinking like me.
Debbie (21:44):
I was going to go get you some chicken gnocchi soup.
Josh (21:46):
Nope, we weren't thinking alike.
Debbie (21:48):
No, what were you thinking?
Josh (21:49):
I was like I want tacos.
Debbie (21:51):
Did we really?
Yes, huh, I would not have.
And I almost thought that.
But then I was like no, no, hedoesn't want that.
I thought you wanted some warmsoup.
Josh (22:02):
Soup is not a meal, I know , but I was in a game.
We've had this conversationmany times, and that's the other
thing Learn to communicate witheach other, right?
You're going to havedisagreements.
There are things you're notgoing to see eye to eye on.
There was and I'm not going toget into it right now because it
doesn't belong on this podcastbut there was a that me and
Debbie did not see eye to eye on.
(22:23):
Oh geez, as far as when it comesto what scripture actually says
.
For how long it was?
An 18 month process ofconversation after conversation,
after conversation, after let'sbe honest heated discussions.
Debbie (22:35):
Yeah, I would get mad.
Josh (22:38):
I wouldn't.
I had the Bible on myself.
What would I get mad for?
Debbie (22:42):
I know I tried to get the Bible on my side.
It didn't work.
I couldn.
What would I get mad for?
I know I tried to get the bibleon my side.
It didn't work.
I couldn't bend.
I couldn't bend the bible to me.
I had to bend to what it saidbut again and this is something
some of- that was my pride,because I was like I can't, he
can't be right, because he'salways right.
Um, and by golly george, I justI finally, finally, have a
(23:02):
record of it I just want to beright on something.
Josh (23:06):
But my mom, I wasn't right .
My mom used to tell me all thetime a key to a happy marriage
is simple Put the other aboveyourself, because if I'm putting
you above me and you're puttingme above you.
Debbie (23:18):
We're outdoing each other in honor.
Josh (23:19):
Right.
What is there not to be happywith Right?
That's Romans 12.
What you just said, I right,that's romans.
12 well, you just said I know.
No, you didn't.
I did know that I did know that.
Okay, you say so and there's noway for me to prove whether you
knew that.
No, I should have.
Instead of going as romans 12,I should have went where is that
?
And then we would have knownbecause, like once you said I
(23:40):
know, now you do know here's thething I know it's in the bible.
I knew that but but see, we justhad a whole argument online
right here, live, well, not live, but kind of live, and I could
have cut this out of therecording, but I'm not going to,
because did you hear usactually laughing in the
(24:00):
argument?
and then, and now it's, and nowI know we're gonna get tacos and
I'll honest, like we have a lotof arguments where you were
just all of a sudden, look at meand go.
Why are you laughing?
Because that's how a lot of ourarguments end with me just
laughing because you made a faceor you said something funny or
you messed up on your words.
Debbie (24:18):
Or tripped up on my words.
Josh (24:19):
Or you said something backwards.
Debbie (24:27):
And I will tell you, the funniest thing to me is you're
the only person I can trip up onmy words like that.
Josh (24:29):
See, I just did it just now.
It's all checked up.
We weren't even arguing and Igo, but that's what it is right
like.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
It's super, super simple but we won't do it
because it takes effort, ittakes a lot of work selfishness,
oh my gosh yeah, I told you.
Josh (24:45):
I told you that would tie back in.
Debbie (24:46):
I just didn't want to give it away and like then
everyone's like well, I don'tneed to listen to this episode
again I think people know it'sselfishness, but how many times
you hear people go nope, I'mtired, I'm gonna get mine, I'm
gonna get mine uh, that is theculture we live in and we, I
mean I just, I don't know, wesee it every day, just but
understand.
Josh (25:06):
You're teaching your kids that too and that's.
Debbie (25:08):
It's hard because I don't always want to bring up,
you know, because we're aroundkids all the time.
But, god, we do see it in kidsevery single day and it's like,
it's scary because that's thenext generation yeah and they're
selfish and they'reself-centered and you have a few
that are fighting through tonot be like that.
It's in the words of Gloriait's a doggy dog world.
Josh (25:30):
Center, but I go, that's it.
That's the big secret rightthere, right.
Like yeah there are all sortsof techniques, right Sure, like
oh, we get too mad, we take abreak, we, you know calm down,
write down all the great thingsthey did Like.
Debbie (25:45):
There we get too mad.
We take a break.
We, you know.
Calm down, write down all thegreat things they did Like.
Josh (25:46):
There are a lot of different tools and some CBTs
you can do and I'm not sayingthat those don't have a time and
a place, like there havedefinitely been arguments we've
gotten into where I've been like, hey, look like.
Or you've been like, hey, look,you know we're not talking
about this right now.
(26:07):
When we're less emotionallycharged um in emotions.
That's a whole another one, andwe know that's a whole
different episode, don't even.
But.
But you know I'm not sayingthose things aren't beneficial,
and I'm not saying those thingsdon't work.
What I am saying, though, is,if you start from a position of
like, you can choose not toargue like.
That is a choice it is.
Debbie (26:22):
That's sure you don't always have to say something
right and I'm not saying thatthere aren't other issues you
need to work on right you know,like, if it's turning violent,
like get to safety buteverything, but that's, that's
true, right, everything does nothave to be a fight or an
argument.
You can literally, and you knowwhat.
I don't remember who it was, Iwas listening to, they were
(26:43):
talking.
They said was it wise it waswise smart, it was smart they
said, sometimes the best thingyou can do is know the other
person is wrong and let it go.
I do this all the time whetherit's you or our children but
(27:07):
they were saying you know, youlook at jesus, who did nothing
wrong, took that beating on thecross, died, suffered, and he
did nothing wrong, but he tookthe blame.
Sometimes you can take theblame and nod and agree and just
go.
Okay, I'm just glad you came tothat conclusion.
That's what I said like 10minutes ago.
Sometimes you can take theblame and nod and agree and just
go okay.
Josh (27:27):
I'm just glad you came to that conclusion.
That's what I said like 10minutes ago.
Okay, that's why I kept goingback to like look at the
crucifixion.
I know, but I was just Jesuschose.
Like if anybody deserved to beserved, right, it would have
been Jesus, right.
Debbie (27:44):
But a lot of people don't want to like.
But I'm right, I'm right, I'mright, I'm right, and they fight
for that.
And then you're right, and thenyou've ruined relationships and
you've ended, you've ended,yeah yeah, you're all by
yourself, right, but hey awesomeyou're right, all by yourself,
yeah, because there's, there'sother ways you can get to that
(28:06):
point of being right right.
Josh (28:08):
There are other conversations that you can have.
Debbie (28:10):
It doesn't always have to be hostile, and at that
moment you can wait a few days,you can in debbie's case.
Josh (28:17):
I mean, she's waited years and brought stuff back up wow
what lies are being told, wowthat's true, that is true and
you know and I go, but but againit really just boils down to it
is a choice to argue, and ifyou don't want to argue, don't
don't argue.
(28:37):
I'll tell you right now.
If I really want to get debbiemad, I just have to go, you're
right, she'll work herself intoa tizzy.
I'll be like what you get madfor?
I literally go, you're right,she'll work herself into a tizzy
.
I'll be like what'd you get madfor?
I literally just said you'reright, that gets me really mad.
And apparently, apparently thatwasn't what she was wanting in
that moment?
(28:58):
No, it was not.
But I go again.
Like you're choosing to argue,choose not to Choose to sit here
and go.
You know what I'm going tohandle this, the way that jesus
handled this.
I'm going to serve, you know,and enough with the silent
treatment.
Debbie (29:13):
That doesn't work no all you're doing is you're, you're
showing how much of a child youare you're playing emotional
chicken like I bet.
I can go longer and thedangerous game is when you don't
always know how the otherperson's gonna respond, and that
might be that time where theygo I'm not gonna lie.
Josh (29:33):
Debbie called me bud the other night like we're going to
bed.
You know, we normally go.
We normally go, hey, I love you.
I love you, you know, have agood night's sleep and she's
like all right, bud, and I waslike what?
And so now, every once in awhile, I just like emotionally
close myself off, you know.
(29:53):
So she can see how that feels.
So here's the deal, because Ican do that easy.
Debbie (29:58):
No, here's the deal.
I was going to call you babeand honey at the same time, and
that gonna call you babe andhoney at the same time.
And that was that week that Icould not get anything right.
I just couldn't say the rightthing.
My brain just felt like it wason overload.
So I was gonna say honey andbabe.
And then it all came togetherand I called you, but she
(30:20):
doesn't like it.
Josh (30:21):
It's like we're going to bed and I'm like all right, bud,
bud give me a little pat on myshoulder.
Have a good night.
Hopefully we'll wake uptomorrow.
We can get it right.
Debbie (30:30):
And he will just randomly do that which dress?
Josh (30:36):
But again, like I go, it's easy.
It's simple.
You want to stop arguing inyour marriage.
Debbie (30:44):
It's super simple and have fun with each other.
Love your spouse.
Josh (30:46):
Love your spouse the way that Jesus loves you.
Debbie (30:49):
And get tacos for them Again.
Josh (30:50):
think about it right In Matthew 22, the lawyer trying to
chip up Jesus.
What's he say?
Right, what's the greatestcommandment, Jesus, what you got
?
And he's like hey, the greatestcommandment is this Love lord
your god with all your heart,mind, body and soul.
And what's the?
And the second one is like itlove others whether you love
yourself.
Understand if we did those twothings, because jesus does go on
(31:12):
to say that on this depends allthe law and the prophets right
the first four commandments andthe ten commandments deal with
our relationship with god and ifyou love god with all your
heart, mind, body and soul, youare going to keep all four of
those commandments right and ifyou love others the way that you
love you.
That is the other sixcommandments.
They deal with our relationshipwith each other.
Right.
And guess what happens then.
(31:34):
Like you have now kept all 10commandments by doing what
Properly loving God and properlyloving others.
Debbie (31:43):
Right, and I mean when you're serving people you got
time to be pill paddle arguing.
And you?
You don't realize the chemicalchange that can happen in your
brain.
You feel better when you'redoing stuff for other people.
Josh (31:56):
Get addicted, you do Get high on your own supply, kinda
that's what happens, gettingthat Jesus stuff on.
Yeah, that's right getting thatjesus stuff on.
Yeah, that's right and that'swhere I go.
Honestly, like you choose toargue, you choose to be angry,
you choose to be curmudgeon, youchoose all of that.
Yep, like I agree, all ofthat's a choice.
Like you can be angry okay,being angry isn't a choice.
(32:19):
Like you can't choose youremotions, right, you can choose
what you do with them, though.
That's why paul in ephesianswould tell you you know, be
angry and send not right likeyou're gonna get angry.
Things are gonna happen.
You know your, your significantother, is going to make you
angry your kids are gonna makeyou angry and instead of
reacting out of that love theway that jesus loves and go.
Debbie (32:43):
Hey, it really hurt my feelings when you blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah and if you'reconstantly loving, serving and
doing, you can be proactive andthat way, when something comes
up, that reaction, you won't bereactive and it won't turn into
an explosive situation right,but I go.
Josh (33:02):
There's a different.
If I came to you and I was likehey, deb, you really hurt my
feelings when you whatever yousaid that you called me bud, um,
that opens up a conversation,right.
If you call me bud, though andI'm like you know, f you right
that opens up an argument.
Right like you, you see howit's the same thing you're
(33:25):
trying to get to the same result.
Debbie (33:27):
Just two different ways to get there.
Josh (33:29):
Right, very different Right, vastly different.
One is going to cause like aweek long war zone at the house.
Debbie (33:35):
And the other one could be, you know, a 10 minute
conversation.
One's like a nice smooth drivedown the way.
Josh (33:47):
And the other ones.
You're going to get into anaccident every step of the way,
right, and I go and understandat the end you're the only one
who can control you, right?
So if you're waiting for theother one to change, that's not
going to work what do I startevery marriage counseling
session I ever do with?
Debbie (33:57):
if you, if they never change, are you willing to stay
like with them for the rest ofyour life, knowing they're never
going to change?
Right, because if you walk intothis going, here's my
stipulation right throw it outthe window, you're done right,
and I'm not saying people won'thave stipulations, like some
people do, but that that canpermanently alter your
(34:17):
relationship.
Josh (34:17):
Well, just understand.
You have stipulations, you haveexpectations.
It's going to lead you to anargument right and I'm not
saying like don't?
Debbie (34:25):
he's not saying put up with everything and anything he
hits me and cheats on me all thetime like obviously I would not
be like hey well right that'swhat he's a terrible dad.
He treats our children poorly.
He hits right like obviouslythere are extenuating
circumstances, sure I am talkingabout just regular
run-of-the-mill arguments thoughright, like you know, he's
(34:45):
bringing home aids to you.
Obviously I wouldn't be like, ohyou should just stay with him,
right you know, and you wentsideways fast on that one well,
I just go.
You know I'm trying to think oflike every possible you know
you've got to have some standardof some sort right, not saying
just but that doesn't contradictwhat I'm saying.
No, no, at the same time likebecause if someone and that's a
(35:07):
whole nother episode men beingmen, women being like, that's a
whole well, it's more than anepisode there.
Josh (35:13):
You could do a whole podcast on just men, just that
that's true so I'll tell youwhat.
Debbie (35:18):
That's a hot topic, but that's again a whole nother time
, so I hope you gained somethingfrom it.
Josh (35:22):
Hope you learned something from it.
Hope you learned something fromit.
Hope you know how not to arguewith your spouse.
How to get out of everyargument is simple Just just
don't argue, Be Jesus.
To one another.
Debbie (35:33):
That's right.
Josh (35:34):
So until next time, we love you.
We thank you.
Make sure you share this cause.
We can't do this without you.
Debbie (35:40):
Bye guys.
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