July 1, 2025 • 43 mins
What does it mean to design a family legacy with intention? How do you make sure that legacy is rooted in faith? On Faith & Finance Live, Rob West and Jan Thompson share how you, along with your family, can ensure your faith is reflected in what you leave behind. Then, Rob tackles your financial questions. That’s on the next Faith & Finance Live, where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances—weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:04):
The following programme was pre-recorded so our phone lines are
not open.
S2 (00:08):
What does it mean to design a family legacy with intention?
And how do you make sure that legacy is rooted
in faith? Hi, I'm Rob West. Today we're talking about
the legacy you'll leave behind and how to shape it
while you still can. Jan Thompson joins us to share
how you and your family can ensure your faith is
reflected in what you leave behind. Then we have some
(00:30):
great calls lined up, but we won't be taking your
calls today because we're pre-recorded. This is faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, today I'm joined
by Jan Thompson, a trusted friend. She's founder of One
Degree Advisors and a certified financial planner and Certified Kingdom Advisor.
(00:54):
She also serves on the board of directors at Kingdom Advisors.
And Jan, it is a delight to have you here today.
S3 (01:00):
Oh, it's great to be with you always, Rob.
S2 (01:03):
Jan, before we dive into the three powerful lessons you've
identified for families thinking about legacy planning, let's set the stage.
From your perspective. How would you define what it means
to be a certified Kingdom Advisor? And what do you
think sets the work of a CA apart?
S3 (01:20):
Oh well. Becoming a certified Kingdom advisor profoundly shaped how
I help families approach what truly matters. When I began
my financial advising career over 30 years ago now, I
felt called to educate and empower people to wisely steward
what God had entrusted to them at their faith, their family,
and their finances. And as a lifelong student of Scripture,
(01:42):
I always had this deep desire to understand God's wisdom
for stewardship. And as I practiced those principles personally and
experienced the freedom of handling money God's way, when I
launched my own firm, I really longed to integrate my
academic and professional training with my biblical foundation. And that's
when God brought Ron, blew across my path, shared his
vision for Kingdom Advisors. And I knew instantly I wanted
(02:04):
to be a part of it. So that training gave
me the tools to integrate biblical wisdom with professional expertise,
and it changed everything. Wow. Now I help clients make
values based decisions that withstand uncertainty and reflect unchanging biblical truth.
You know, I can't control the markets or I can't
control politics, but I can offer guidance grounded in God's
(02:25):
word that's timeless and trustworthy. So now, decades later, I
see this ripple effect of biblically wise financial counsel and
families and their legacies. And when people embrace the truth
that God owns it all and we're accountable to him,
it doesn't just shift the conversation. It really reorders priorities.
So financial plans, investments and wealth transfers they're all still
(02:48):
vitally important. But now they're rooted in purpose. And that
helps families find clarity and unity and strength, not just financially,
but spiritually and relationally and now across generations.
S2 (03:00):
Mhm. Well, and I know you have the privilege of
leading a team of kca's now at one Degree Advisors
and you all are doing some incredible work. I so
appreciate your heart and the work that you're doing to
serve families in this area, specifically of building rich family legacies.
And I'd love to dive into that before our first
break here today. I know there's three key lessons you're
(03:21):
going to share with us today. So I want to
start with this first one. And that is the most meaningful.
Legacy is so much more than money. Unpack that for
us a bit.
S3 (03:31):
Well, when you hear the word legacy, I find most
people's minds immediately go to it's what you leave behind.
And it's typically in the context of money or assets
passed upon death. Yes. I refer to that really as
your financial legacy. But when you look at the fact
that that's only one of really five parts of your
legacy and that the other four parts are typically very neglected.
(03:56):
I always like to make sure we incorporate those other pieces. So,
for example, your personal legacy is the impact of your
character and values, your life choices, how you're going to
be remembered. Your family legacy includes traditions, stories, values, faith,
relational dynamics that you intentionally pass down to future generations.
(04:17):
And then if you run a business or you have
a ministry, that legacy reflects the mission and the culture
and the lasting influence of the work that you've built
or the life you've led there, including how it serves
others beyond your own tenure. And then finally, probably one
of the most important legacies is your legacy. And that's
the eternal impact of your life through faith driven, living,
(04:39):
gospel centered influence, generous stewardship that advances God's purposes here
on earth. So while time doesn't permit, we really do unpack.
Each one of these is critical to understand how deeply
interconnected these areas are, in fact, when families pass down
wealth without context or preparation that include these other areas,
(05:01):
the legacy failure rate is alarmingly high.
S2 (05:05):
Wow. Well, I'm really looking forward to continuing to unpack this. Jan.
This is such an important topic, folks. We're joined today
by Jan Thompson. She's a trusted friend and founder of
One Degree Advisors. She's also a certified Kingdom advisor. This
is Faith and Finance Live. We're just getting started. Thanks
(05:34):
for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. We're
talking today about creating a family legacy. And that is
so much more than just your financial legacy. In fact,
that's just one piece. And with us today, Jan Thompson,
she serves on the board of directors here at Kingdom Advisors.
She's also the founder of One Degree Advisors. She's a
CFP and a certified Kingdom advisor, and really has dedicated
(05:59):
this season of her career to just pouring into families
around this idea of an intentional legacy. And Jan, before
the break, you were talking about how legacy is really multifaceted.
And and so with that in mind, how do you
help families begin to shift their focus toward passing on
values and not just staying focused on the wealth?
S3 (06:22):
Well, interestingly, according to the research, the failure of legacies
is usually not from flawed legal or financial planning. It's
really from a lack of intentionally communicating with and preparing heirs.
So I always tell people it has to start with
being intentional. We will all experience three legacies. It's the
(06:42):
one you inherited, the one you are currently living out,
and the one that you're going to leave behind. Well,
you can't really do anything about the one you inherited,
it is what it is. But you have a great
deal of control and influence over the one you're both
living and leaving. And so it starts with the first
generation who's determined to change the trajectory of their legacy story.
(07:05):
So I'll just share a personal story here. I saw
this so clearly through my parents legacy journey. They came
from sad, broken, dysfunctional backgrounds that started in their early childhood,
having been raised in an institutional home for children. They
met there and they determined when they married that they
were going to create the kind of home environment with
deep family roots that they missed. So they were introduced
(07:28):
shortly after they were married to Jesus Christ. And that
set them on a course to intentionally establish strong values
and purpose filled living founded in biblical truth, which then
dramatically altered the course of the family legacy that I inherited.
And that legacy continues to thrive now, with the fourth
generation standing tall on those same values and purpose. Because
(07:50):
a young couple back in 1940, when they got married,
made strategic changes to alter their own legacy. Story.
S2 (07:58):
Wow. That is so powerful. And I think a perfect
illustration of what we're talking about here today. Well, let's
move to the second really key idea you want to
share with us. And that is that wisdom must come
before wealth. And, you know, we talk about that so
often here at fortify. I'd love for you to unpack
that for us a bit. What does it look like
(08:20):
to pass? Not just resources, but biblical wisdom with intentionality.
S3 (08:25):
We are in the midst of the largest wealth transfer
in history. Yet the statistics on wealth lasting beyond the
third generation is pretty abysmal. Why is that? Well, the
top three reasons that legacies fail are one. There's a
lack of trust in communication among the family members, or two.
The heirs are unprepared and don't know what to do
(08:48):
with what they receive. And the third one is there's
an absence of shared values and a cohesive family vision.
And the heirs just don't know what's expected of them,
how to steward this wisely. So it's not just about
passing on financial resources. It's really about preparing the next
generation to handle those resources with wisdom, which then in
(09:10):
turn leads to unity. So wealth is a great tool,
but without the wisdom to handle it wisely. With unity,
division often occurs.
S2 (09:20):
Yeah. So as you come alongside families, Jan, they're at
one degree advisors. How do you prepare them to help
the next generation manage the wealth they'll one day receive? Wisely.
Because we know that money is going to propel. It's
the fuel that's going to propel them in whatever direction
they're heading. And so we want to make sure that
that's being met with the right heart posture when it's received.
S3 (09:43):
Oh, you're so right. There's a powerful Formula that answers
this question, and it's found in Psalm 78 five through seven.
It really specifically speaks to five generations. It says fathers
tell their children to tell the next generation, even the
children yet to be born and their children too. There's
three things that you can trust God. How do you
(10:06):
do that? By remembering his works. In other words, share
your stories. And then by living in obedience. So I
always tell families that we serve the same God of Abraham, Isaac,
and Jacob. The biblical accounts of God's favor and blessing
through their obedience that we read about in Scripture isn't
just ancient history. There are lessons for us to remember
(10:28):
what God did then, because through our own unique faith,
journey and obedience, he wants to continue to do that
again for generations to come. And then, as you recall,
those family stories of how God showed up. Study your
family and begin identifying those values that altered your legacy journey.
It could be great choices or major mistakes that God redeemed. Yeah,
(10:51):
but look for ways to have those open, authentic conversations
about your life's purpose, your values, responsibilities, expectations. Then, at
appropriate ages, begin sharing more of your story along with
your estate plan and financial plans, but do so through
the filter of values and principles that go beyond those numbers.
(11:11):
And for those who want a little more support, I'm
launching a new complimentary weekly email post to help equip
families with concepts and action steps that they can implement
to change or strengthen their family legacy trajectory. And anyone
can sign up for that weekly email it's going to
be at. The website is going to be somewhere on purpose.
It's just like it sounds. We also have more hands
(11:34):
on coaching that we do through our own legacy planning.
At One Degree Advisors, we've developed two programs. One of
them is called the North Star Program. This is for
generation one, and that helps them identify their family's true north.
Who you are, what you stand for, what matters most,
what you envision for future generations. And we create that
(11:54):
generational roadmap that becomes a visual for future generations to
capture those concepts. And then those who want more multi-generational
coaching we offer. The navigation program is designed to bring
your legacy vision to life, and this is very customized,
hands on coaching experience with immersive activities designed to build
(12:15):
a vibrant living legacy among multiple generations. And then there's
one other thing that we're working on, and there are
several of us at Kingdom Advisors who are actively working
in this area with multi-generational legacy planning. So we're now
working with other certified Kingdom advisors in our network to
equip them to have these legacy conversations with their clients.
(12:36):
So more will be coming as we continue to build
this out through Kingdom Advisors.
S2 (12:40):
Well, I'm so excited about the resources you just mentioned
and what's happening here at Kingdom Advisors with other advisors
like you, Jan, and your team that are focused on
this area of family legacy. So, folks, I couldn't underscore
what she just shared. More significantly. Jan, we've got about
a minute left. Let's finish with the need to be
(13:00):
intentional because this just doesn't happen automatically. Um, you have
to be intentional as a family to do what you're
describing here, right?
S3 (13:10):
Right. Yeah. Psalm 71 tells us, even when I'm old
and gray, don't forsake me, my God, until I declare
your power to the next generation. So your faith journey
is unique and it matters. Ask God to give you
the insight into your best next step, to declare how
he's shown up for you, and begin building that same
trust and communication with those that matter most. Then I
(13:31):
tell people, today is the day to start. You may
not have done anything yesterday or prior to that, but
you can do something today. Hope isn't a strategy. There
are two main reasons I continue to hear from families
why they've not started building an intentional legacy. One they
have no idea where to start. Or two, they put
it off, believing that they'll tackle it when they aren't
quite so busy or distracted or pressured. I say procrastination
(13:54):
is that silent killer of a strong family legacy. Yes.
And another just expose them to the needs of others.
A missions trip to a foreign country, or a current
service project in your own backyard where the entire family
gets involved in serving together.
S2 (14:07):
Wow. That's powerful. Well, we've just scratched the surface, so
we're going to have to have you back. But, Jan,
thanks for your time today.
S3 (14:14):
Thank you.
S2 (14:14):
That's Jan Thompson, certified Kingdom advisor and founder of One
Degree Advisors. If you want to learn more, go to
One Degree advisors.com. A quick break and back with your
questions after this. Stick around. Hey, great to have you
(14:35):
with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West,
your host. Our team is away from the studio today,
so don't call in. But coming up a little later,
we'll have more of your questions right here on the program. Hey,
let me take a moment to mention the Faith fi app.
We'd love for you to download it. Just head to
your app store wherever you download apps and search for
(14:57):
Faith fi. That's Faith fi. You can manage your money.
You can access the best content in biblical finance podcasts, articles,
and videos. You can also participate in our Faith fi community,
where you can post questions and get answers from others
on their stewardship journey. You'll find it in your app store.
Just search for Faith fi or if it's easier, head
(15:18):
to our website at Faith Philly.com. That's Faith fi and
you'll see the app right there on the home page. Uh,
before we head to the phones in the news, job
change is on the rise. Many Americans are leaving behind
old 401 accounts, and it's costing them, as of 2023,
nearly 30 million. Forgotten 401 held 1.65 trillion. Yeah, with
(15:44):
a T in assets left unmanaged. Well, these accounts often
incur additional fees. Some former employees may unknowingly pay monthly
non employee maintenance fees, which can quietly drain thousands from
their retirement savings over time. Not to mention, the lost
compounding growth. While rolling over funds to an IRA is
(16:05):
one option, it's not always cheaper. IRAs can carry higher
investment fees depending upon which approach you take, and research
suggests that those rollovers could cost U.S. workers a good
bit 45 billion over 25 years. Um, so instead, you
should consolidate your retirement savings by I think my first
(16:27):
option would be you rolling those funds into your new
employer's plan or tracking down lost accounts through resources like
the Department of Labor's new Lost and Found Database, or
the National Registry of Unclaimed Retirement Benefits. You'll find that
unclaimed retirement benefits.com. Bottom line don't ignore your old 401.
(16:50):
Try to consolidate it with an existing one or roll
it out to that IRA. Remember, you do have options
when it comes to that IRA in terms of whether
you'll manage it yourself. With a low cost provider, you
could use a robo solution. You could hire an advisor
if you have enough in that account to justify, um,
bringing on a wealth manager. But you just don't want
(17:11):
to let it sit. You certainly don't want to forget
about it, so hopefully that's a good reminder for you today.
All right. Let's dive into your questions. We're going to
begin in Oklahoma. Hi, Luke. How can I help you, sir?
S4 (17:23):
Hi, Rob. Hi, Rob. Good morning. Good morning. Um. Thanks. Show.
I became a big fan when I discovered it recently.
I listened as much as I can.
S2 (17:31):
Awesome. That's great. Thank you.
S4 (17:33):
Yeah. Um, my wife and I are about to, uh,
buy a house. It's our first house. And, um, we
are we're getting closer to to actually finishing, uh, getting
getting through it, which we've tried many times before, but
never did. We bounced around a lot with the military,
but I was wondering if you could help me, um,
(17:53):
weigh in on a 15 year mortgage versus the the
30 year mortgage? Um, I am looking to use a
VA loan, but we are going to be putting money down.
It comes down to the the monthly cash flow, I think.
And it looks like, um, it looks like for the
15 year mortgage, uh, we would be right about at 25%
(18:15):
of our monthly income to cover the, the principal interest,
taxes and insurance. And, um, with the 30 year, it's
more like 20% or just just under 20%.
S2 (18:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I love the 15 year
in the sense that you'll pay off the debt much faster,
which saves yourself, you know, potentially tens of thousands of
dollars in interest. You know, one option would be and
this is kind of a middle ground, is you'd go
ahead and take out the 30 year loan, but you
(18:48):
treat it like it's a 15. So you could even
have your mortgage company. Or you could do this yourself
on with just one of these free online tools where
you'd run the amortization schedule that says, okay, what would
I need to send every month to pay this 30
year mortgage like it's a 15? Uh, yes. You're going
to end up with a slightly higher interest rate, but
(19:10):
I think that's a worthwhile trade off to at least consider,
because the benefit of doing that is if you ever
got into a position where you know you lost a
job or you had a, you know, you had your, uh,
your income took a dip or, you know, you had
some unnecessary or, excuse me, unexpected expenses come out of
(19:31):
left field that consumed, you know, a good bit of
your income, you'd have the ability to drop back to
that lower 30 year amortized amortized payment. But, you know,
assuming everything goes according to plan, you just pay it
like it's a 15. And I think you kind of
have the the best of both worlds. Does that make sense?
S4 (19:50):
Yes it does. Thank you.
S2 (19:52):
Yeah. So I think the key though is with that
plan is you've got to really, you know, stay disciplined
and stick to the plan because lifestyle creep can interfere
with your extra principal payments. So you go into this thinking,
oh yeah I'm going to get that 30 year and
I'm only going to drop down to the 30 year
payment if something, you know, really goes haywire. And, you know,
(20:15):
I'm going to make that 15 year and all of
a sudden you find other places to use that money.
And the 30 year just kind of becomes the norm.
So just guard against that. Um, you know, if you can. And,
and I would say just really make a commitment between
you and your wife that, hey, we're going to treat
this like a 15. We're not even going to consider.
We've got that option to pay less. Um, but again,
(20:36):
as a fail safe, you could always drop down to
that lower amount, if that makes sense.
S4 (20:41):
Yeah. No, it does make sense. And that's exactly that's
partly why I was seeking advice, because I think my
wife and I just have different personalities about money, and
I'd just as soon have less today. For more tomorrow. Um,
and I think she prefers the flexibility and, and I
would worry about that lifestyle creep too, like you mentioned.
S2 (21:02):
Yeah, yeah. And so I think you guys would have
to go into it saying, hey, we need to hold
each other accountable. We're just going to treat this like
a 15 year, uh, knowing that we've got this option
to drop down if we absolutely had to. But we're
going to build our plan as if we have this
15 year mortgage. And, you know, I think the the
key when we have different money personalities and usually that's
(21:23):
the way it is. One's the spender, one's the saver. And,
you know, it comes down to your temperament and your
personality and your upbringing. There's you know, you need to
appreciate what each is bringing to the table. You know,
one might want to use it now for experiences and enjoyment.
The other might want to save for the future. But
in the middle of that, I think you can find
God's heart and really reflect him more fully when you
(21:46):
both bring your personalities to the table, but it ultimately
has to result in a plan that reflects your values
at the end of the day. Thanks for your call, Luke.
God bless you, my friend. We'll be right back. Thanks
so much for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live.
(22:08):
I'm Rob West, your host. Hey, our team is away
from the studio today. We're not here, but we've got
some great questions that we lined up in advance. I
know you'll enjoy those a little later in our broadcast. Folks,
have you checked out recently? Our website at Faith. Com
if not, I'd encourage you to do that. You'll find
our community there where you can post questions and comments.
(22:28):
here from others that are on the stewardship journey as well.
You can also access our content and check out the
Faith fi app. It's at Faith Philly.com. We're going to
head to Oklahoma in a bit and talk about emergency
reserves for churches. That's a great conversation. But first to
New Mexico Joseph. Go ahead sir.
S5 (22:46):
Uh, yes. Rob, thanks for taking my phone call. Sure.
And I really, really do appreciate your program, man.
S2 (22:52):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
S5 (22:54):
But, uh, I have a question. I actually won a house, uh,
from Saint Jude dream home giveaway.
S2 (23:03):
Wow. And congratulations.
S5 (23:06):
I know, believe it or not, when they called me
and to tell me I'm sorry about. I have a
little bit of a cold right now. But anyway, uh,
they called me up. The girl called me up and said,
you won this house. And I hung up on her
because I just thought it was a scam. Yeah. And so, anyway, uh,
she called me back, and I said, well, listen, I'm
(23:26):
going to hang up now. I'm going to call you
back to make sure this is legit. And it was.
It was legit. I won AA2 thousand 300 square foot
home on. It's a smart home and it's on a
half acre of land. And the house is valued at
about $570,000. Wow. Incredible. Yeah. I mean, it was just
(23:49):
a blessing from God. Really? Um, our family's always been
big givers, and we've always, you know, done the Dave
Ramsey thing. Just living debt free. And if you can't
afford something, you know, to pay for it, cash, you
don't buy it. Yeah, yeah, but.
S2 (24:05):
What a novel idea, right?
S5 (24:07):
Oh, I know, but anyway, um, I had to get
into this house. I had to pay. I think it
was right around 35 to 37% in taxes. Yeah. Which
came out to be $205,000. And I had the money.
So I went ahead and and got into the house
And I'm getting ready to sell the house. And I
(24:30):
talked to my CPA, and they were saying that there's
going to be another 20% capital gains on that house.
S2 (24:37):
Interesting. Well, the thing that's confusing to me, and I'm
not a CPA, so I would take his his counsel
on this. But you you paid the tax on the winnings.
And so in order to determine the cost basis of
a house won in a drawing or sweepstakes or whatever
it would be, is generally based on my understanding the
cost basis of the home would be the fair market
(25:00):
value on the date you officially received ownership. Uh, because
you've paid the tax on the winnings. And now we
need to determine is there a capital gain. And in
order for you to get the long term capital gain,
which would either be zero, 15 or 20%, you would
determine as long as you've held it for at least
(25:20):
a year, you would get the long term capital gain.
But I would question whether there's any gain at all because,
you know, are you turning around and selling it pretty
soon after you received it?
S5 (25:32):
No, I've had the house for a couple of years now.
S2 (25:34):
Okay. And has it appreciated since you got it?
S5 (25:38):
Um, it stayed pretty much the same because of, uh,
you know, the interest rates. And, you know, I mean,
it's still about that. I could probably sell it for
the 570.
S2 (25:49):
Yeah. Yeah. So is he saying the entire value of
the home is a capital gain?
S5 (25:56):
That's what they're saying. You know, maybe I misunderstood them
or something. I don't know, that's why I'm doing the
research to, you know, kind of figure out how I
can keep the tax burden down.
S2 (26:09):
Yeah. Well, the fair market value is typically the value
stated by the contest sponsor, which would have been the
the amount that would have been taxable to you. Um,
you know, it could be based on a professional appraisal
or the price the sponsor paid for the house. Um,
you know, and then, uh, in terms of you having
(26:31):
a capital gain, it would really be just the difference between, uh,
your selling price and, you know, the adjusted cost basis,
which is, you know, that fair market value when you
received it, you know, um, plus any major renovations, which
I can't imagine you had any at all, um, you know,
(26:51):
or landscaping improvements, things that added to the value of
the home. Um, and then, you know, you would come
up with your, your capital gain. And as long as
you held the property for at least a year, then
whatever gain you had would then help you determine, along
with your income, what long term capital gain rate you pay. So,
(27:12):
you know, for 2025, um, you know, if you have
are you married or single?
S5 (27:18):
I'm single.
S2 (27:19):
Okay. So single filing status for 2025. If you have
taxable income between 48,351 and 533,000, you'd pay 15%. But again,
that would only be based on the gain that you had.
And I think based on what I'm hearing, you could
(27:41):
make the case there isn't any gain because it hasn't
appreciated since the fair market value of what you receive.
So I think what you need to do next is
go back to your CPA and just say, help me
understand here why there's a capital gain, just given that
this hasn't appreciated since I received it.
S5 (27:59):
Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. I just, you know,
when you pay out more than 50% in taxes.
S2 (28:07):
Yeah.
S5 (28:08):
It kind of gets to you.
S2 (28:09):
Yeah. Well, yeah, again, I think, uh, you know, the con,
the contest reports, the fair market value, and that becomes
your cost basis. Uh, and you've already paid the taxes
on the winnings. So, you know, I think that's your
next step here. Hopefully they'll be good news. Maybe you
just misunderstood. Or maybe I'm missing something here, but, um,
I think it's at least worth you checking back in
(28:30):
with your, uh, your tax professional. Uh, by the way,
in terms of determining, uh, you know, what income goes into, uh, your,
you know, cost basis or, excuse me, determining your long
term capital gain bracket. It's really what's called total taxable income.
So it's your AGI, your adjusted gross income, which includes
(28:50):
wages and salaries and bonuses and interest and dividends, um,
and then any long term capital gains. So the gain
from the sale of the home would be added in.
And when you put all that taxable income together, um,
you know, minus any deductions, then you'd, you know, that
would help you determine, okay, where do I fall? And
(29:10):
that's why most people, when you put all that together
fall in that 15% bracket. But um or rate. But again,
the question here is, is there any gain at all
to even be concerned about? And that's where I think
you need to go next, Joseph. Congratulations again. What a
blessing and thanks for calling today. We appreciate you being
on the program. Let's go to Oklahoma. Quinton, how can
(29:33):
I help?
S6 (29:34):
Nice to speak with you, Rob. How are you today?
S2 (29:36):
I'm doing great. Nice to speak with you as well.
S6 (29:39):
Yeah. Thank you. So I was just looking for a
little guidance as to whether or not there are any
principles out there related to the amount of cash reserves,
emergency fund that a church should maintain. Certainly, we know,
you know, some rules of thumb around around personal financial planning,
but wasn't sure if those principles applied at the church
(30:00):
level as well.
S2 (30:01):
Yeah, I think they do. And I think it's really
up to each church to determine what is that right amount.
You know, I think no reserves is generally considered inadequate
and probably something more than 12 months, uh, of of, uh,
operations and expenses in reserve is, you know, generally considered excessive.
So the question is, where does your church want to fall?
(30:24):
And I'm saying beyond any requirements from your mortgage, if
you have one, there's a great article that I would
direct you to, um, if you just do an internet
search for it. So that's for the Evangelical Council for
Financial Accountability for Church Reserves. You will find an article
(30:46):
called Church Cash Reserves How Much is Enough by Dan
Busby and Michael Martin. And I think that's going to
give you a lot of, uh, things to think about
and share with others in your church. Uh, we got
to hit a break. We'll be right back.
S7 (31:05):
This is our final segment of a faith and finance
live program that we previously recorded. Thanks so much for
being with us today, and we hope you'll stick around
and enjoy the rest of the program.
S2 (31:15):
Him before the break. We were talking to Quentin. He's
just wondering about the appropriate amount of reserves for his church.
You know, we talk a lot here about the importance
of an emergency fund personally having at least 3 to
6 months expenses, at least as a starting point, as
a rule of thumb, in emergency reserves for the unexpected.
But what about your church? Is there a reason to
(31:37):
have an emergency fund as a church? And I think
we can get on, you know, opposite ends or the
the extremes. I mean, one extreme, you know, basically says, well,
God will provide, you know, we don't need anything in reserves.
And the other extreme is something more than a year's
worth of expenses. And, you know, I would say the
(31:59):
reason that's extreme is, remember, you know, we're giving to
the local church to do the work of the church
right now. And so although there's very appropriate reasons to
set aside, and we'll talk about those in a second
in terms of the operating reserves beyond designated funds beyond
an expansion project, beyond, you know, a mortgage reserve requirement
(32:19):
from the bank, operating reserves, probably excessive to have more
than 12 months or anywhere close to that, just because
that's money that could be put into winning the lost and,
you know, discipling and equipping the body and paying the
pastors and all the other things that go in to
the church operations. But where do you find, you know,
that appropriate amount for your church? Well, you know, the
(32:42):
pastor and the executive team and the lay leaders, depending
on the size of your church. I think really for that,
that reserve that is truly operating reserve, beyond those things
that I mentioned, beyond designated gifts and mortgage reserves and
capital replacements and maybe a ministry expansion fund for purely
(33:03):
operating reserves, uh, you know, it's probably best to measure
it in a number of months and probably best for
you to, you know, for the leadership team, maybe the
finance team with the pastor to develop a policy, a
philosophy around how much we feel like we want to
have and then adopt that. Um, and then to the
(33:27):
extent you're below it, build it into the, the budget. Uh,
you know, maybe a budget on 90% of your expected
revenues so that 10% can fund that emergency line, and
maybe you include a cash reserves line in the budget
until you, you know, fully fund that. And I would
say communicate that to the church. Um, you know, it
doesn't exhibit a lack of faith in my view. It
(33:49):
really just reflects a tentativeness to good stewardship, uh, which
we see clearly in God's Word. And so I think,
you know, proactive church administrators communicate both clear measurements and
the rationale for the levels of cash reserves. And this
can give the congregation really greater confidence for even greater giving,
(34:10):
because there's great stewardship being exercised. As I mentioned to Quinton,
if you're on a finance committee or you're helping your
church navigate this, maybe you're a pastor, you're wondering about this.
There's a great article by Dan Busby and Michael Martin, uh,
put out by the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, kind
of the gold standard for financial stewardship. If you just
(34:32):
go to your internet search browser of choice and search
engine and just search for, for for church cash reserves,
you will find a great article called Church Cash Reserves.
How much is enough? And I think it'll give you
a lot to think about and perhaps share with your
finance committee. All right, let's head back to the phones.
Today we're going to go to, uh, Missouri. Darren. Go ahead.
S8 (34:55):
Enjoy listening to your program while I'm at work. I'm self-employed. Carpenter.
S2 (35:00):
Oh, cool.
S8 (35:00):
And I'm I have a 30 year mortgage. It's an
adjustable rate mortgage that can change every five years.
S2 (35:10):
Okay.
S8 (35:10):
And so my first five years is about up. I
think it's up in June. And I heard your program
on reverse mortgages. And so I was just kind of
curious if that would be an option to use as
basically to finance. I'm, you know, I don't have I'm
(35:31):
not concerned about not being able to pay it.
S2 (35:33):
But yeah.
S8 (35:35):
That would give you the option of not, uh, you know,
if a month would be tight, then, you know, you
wouldn't have to make that payment. But then on the
other hand, then do you lose the mortgage interest tax
deduction and and how how can I truly compare just
refinancing it through through the bank or you know, what
(35:57):
would be beneficial.
S2 (35:58):
Yeah. Uh, what is your age?
S8 (36:02):
I'm 51.
S2 (36:03):
Okay. Uh, yeah. So you wouldn't qualify for the reverse.
You have to be B 62. In order to, uh,
go into a hecm a home equity conversion mortgage. Um,
so you're still a little ways off. You've got to
be 62. You got to have at least 50% equity
in your home. And then you could either replace an
(36:24):
existing mortgage, kind of a forward mortgage with a scheduled
monthly payment with a reverse mortgage, by just paying it
off and then having that payment be optional, uh, or
in addition to paying it off, if you still have
a mortgage, you could then have a line of credit
available to you for a portion of the remaining equity,
or even an income stream, a check for life. And
(36:45):
then you'd continue to get the increases or the appreciation
in the property, which could make even more available down
the road. That payment is optional. To your point, there are,
of course, expenses. I mean, right up front there's a 2%
charge that goes straight to the FHA, Federal Housing Administration,
and that is really that fee ensures that you will
(37:07):
never owe. You cannot owe more than the house is worth.
So regardless of, you know what happens to the housing
market and the economy, regardless of how much they pay
out to you, you and or your estate will never
owe more than the the value of that home after
it's sold. Uh, and that's what that 2% fee goes to.
And then there's, you know, there are fees. And then
(37:28):
of course, you'd have an interest rate, which would be variable, uh,
you know, moving forward for whatever outstanding balance there is,
you would have the option to pay it down at
any time. But again, you don't have to. And that's
where a lot of people, especially those in that season
of life 62 and beyond, where maybe they haven't saved enough,
they want to stay in the home, they're able to
(37:49):
still pay the taxes and the insurance don't want to
have to move. And they have a mortgage, which more
than 50% of retirees now do in retirement. And they
just don't want to have to bear that payment. Uh,
or they need that income stream coming out of the
equity just as a supplement to their Social Security, because
(38:09):
they're struggling to make ends meet. You know, that could
be a game changer. Uh, but you got to count
the cost, and it's got to be a good fit
for you. It's a planning tool. It's not for everyone. Uh,
but you do have to be 62 to even consider it.
Is that helpful? Darren, did we lose you? All right,
I think we did. But hopefully that gives you, uh, some,
(38:32):
some good information, Darren, to think about. And, um, you know,
I think this is an often misunderstood financial planning tool,
the reverse mortgage. And hopefully we shed a little light
on it today. Uh, let's go to Ohio. Hi, James.
How can I help, sir?
S4 (38:46):
Hi, Rob.
S9 (38:46):
Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Yeah, I'm working and
I'm married. Um, will be at full retirement age at
the end of the towards the end of the year,
and I just wonder if I should take my Social
Security at 60, basically 67. And, you know, save and
(39:09):
invest and, you know, do do things. Um, charitable things
like that. Or just keep working and keeping my budget
on track, but getting that higher income down the road. Uh,
from Social Security.
S2 (39:26):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question. And it's one that
a lot of people, uh, you know, uh, really wrestle with. And,
you know, the reason that I think for people who
are healthy, I mean, obviously the Lord knows whether we'll
take our next breath, but just, you know, just kind
of stepping back for a second if you're relatively healthy
and you don't need the money because you're continuing to
(39:48):
work and probably finding a lot of enjoyment in that,
the idea that you would continue to let that increase
by 8% a year, up until 70 is something that's
pretty attractive because, you know, you could get, uh, a benefit,
you know, that's, you know, somewhere between, you know, 25
and 32% higher. So if your full retirement age benefit,
(40:09):
let's say, was 2500 a month, I mean, you could
be talking about a check 3100 to 3300 a month
starting at age 70. Now, you would need to live
into your mid 80s, uh, you know, in order to
be paid back for everything you gave up, and then
you'd have that higher, you know, payout for the rest
(40:30):
of your life, uh, you know. So I think, you know,
you could end up with if you live to age 90,
you could, uh, delaying could result in an additional $100,000
or more in lifetime payments. Um, you know, just by
waiting and getting that higher check. And so that guaranteed
increase is nice because we certainly don't have any guarantees
(40:51):
in the market. If you were to take it now,
at the same time, what I would say is if
you're saying, listen, I'd rather get that money into work,
into God's economy right now and give it away and
do some things that I really, you know, am passionate
and burdened about. And I don't want to have to wait.
And I don't know how long, you know, the Lord's
going to tarry, and I certainly don't know how long
he's got for me here. I wouldn't argue with that
(41:14):
one bit. I would say go for it. But I
think if we just purely look at the math equation,
I think those are the reasons why a lot of
people decide to wait, um, to avoid unnecessary taxation while
you're still earning a salary because a higher percentage of
your Social Security could be taxable to increase your benefit, uh,
(41:35):
and to increase your survivor benefit if you're married. Does
that make sense?
S9 (41:40):
Yeah. That's great, I appreciate it. Thank you.
S2 (41:43):
All right. James. Lord bless you, sir. We appreciate you
calling today. Well, folks, uh, that's why we do what
we do here on the program each day. This is
important stuff. Not because I have a lot of brilliant ideas,
but because God's word does. And you and I have
been tasked with a really important job responsibility, and that
is to manage or steward the King of Kings resources.
(42:04):
Let's get that right. Let's do that together. And we
gather together each day on this program to do that
because we know doesn't belong to us. It belongs to him.
And our goal is faithfulness, long obedience in the same
direction in every area of life. But also certainly that
includes this area of money management. Hey, if you'd like
to support our work here, it'd be a real blessing
if you became a faith V partner. Those are those
(42:25):
that come alongside us every month, $35 or more. It's huge.
If you've found a benefit in this ministry and this program,
becoming a partner would be a real blessing to us.
Faithfully click give. We'll send you pre-release copies of studies
and devotionals and our new quarterly publication, Faithful Steward. Thanks
to my team today. Thank you for being here as well.
Faith and Finance Live is a partnership between Moody Radio
(42:47):
and Faith V. Hope. You have a great rest of
your day and come back and join us next time.
We'll see you then. Bye bye.
The following programme was pre-recorded so our phone lines are
not open.
S2 (00:08):
What does it mean to design a family legacy with intention?
And how do you make sure that legacy is rooted
in faith? Hi, I'm Rob West. Today we're talking about
the legacy you'll leave behind and how to shape it
while you still can. Jan Thompson joins us to share
how you and your family can ensure your faith is
reflected in what you leave behind. Then we have some
(00:30):
great calls lined up, but we won't be taking your
calls today because we're pre-recorded. This is faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, today I'm joined
by Jan Thompson, a trusted friend. She's founder of One
Degree Advisors and a certified financial planner and Certified Kingdom Advisor.
(00:54):
She also serves on the board of directors at Kingdom Advisors.
And Jan, it is a delight to have you here today.
S3 (01:00):
Oh, it's great to be with you always, Rob.
S2 (01:03):
Jan, before we dive into the three powerful lessons you've
identified for families thinking about legacy planning, let's set the stage.
From your perspective. How would you define what it means
to be a certified Kingdom Advisor? And what do you
think sets the work of a CA apart?
S3 (01:20):
Oh well. Becoming a certified Kingdom advisor profoundly shaped how
I help families approach what truly matters. When I began
my financial advising career over 30 years ago now, I
felt called to educate and empower people to wisely steward
what God had entrusted to them at their faith, their family,
and their finances. And as a lifelong student of Scripture,
(01:42):
I always had this deep desire to understand God's wisdom
for stewardship. And as I practiced those principles personally and
experienced the freedom of handling money God's way, when I
launched my own firm, I really longed to integrate my
academic and professional training with my biblical foundation. And that's
when God brought Ron, blew across my path, shared his
vision for Kingdom Advisors. And I knew instantly I wanted
(02:04):
to be a part of it. So that training gave
me the tools to integrate biblical wisdom with professional expertise,
and it changed everything. Wow. Now I help clients make
values based decisions that withstand uncertainty and reflect unchanging biblical truth.
You know, I can't control the markets or I can't
control politics, but I can offer guidance grounded in God's
(02:25):
word that's timeless and trustworthy. So now, decades later, I
see this ripple effect of biblically wise financial counsel and
families and their legacies. And when people embrace the truth
that God owns it all and we're accountable to him,
it doesn't just shift the conversation. It really reorders priorities.
So financial plans, investments and wealth transfers they're all still
(02:48):
vitally important. But now they're rooted in purpose. And that
helps families find clarity and unity and strength, not just financially,
but spiritually and relationally and now across generations.
S2 (03:00):
Mhm. Well, and I know you have the privilege of
leading a team of kca's now at one Degree Advisors
and you all are doing some incredible work. I so
appreciate your heart and the work that you're doing to
serve families in this area, specifically of building rich family legacies.
And I'd love to dive into that before our first
break here today. I know there's three key lessons you're
(03:21):
going to share with us today. So I want to
start with this first one. And that is the most meaningful.
Legacy is so much more than money. Unpack that for
us a bit.
S3 (03:31):
Well, when you hear the word legacy, I find most
people's minds immediately go to it's what you leave behind.
And it's typically in the context of money or assets
passed upon death. Yes. I refer to that really as
your financial legacy. But when you look at the fact
that that's only one of really five parts of your
legacy and that the other four parts are typically very neglected.
(03:56):
I always like to make sure we incorporate those other pieces. So,
for example, your personal legacy is the impact of your
character and values, your life choices, how you're going to
be remembered. Your family legacy includes traditions, stories, values, faith,
relational dynamics that you intentionally pass down to future generations.
(04:17):
And then if you run a business or you have
a ministry, that legacy reflects the mission and the culture
and the lasting influence of the work that you've built
or the life you've led there, including how it serves
others beyond your own tenure. And then finally, probably one
of the most important legacies is your legacy. And that's
the eternal impact of your life through faith driven, living,
(04:39):
gospel centered influence, generous stewardship that advances God's purposes here
on earth. So while time doesn't permit, we really do unpack.
Each one of these is critical to understand how deeply
interconnected these areas are, in fact, when families pass down
wealth without context or preparation that include these other areas,
(05:01):
the legacy failure rate is alarmingly high.
S2 (05:05):
Wow. Well, I'm really looking forward to continuing to unpack this. Jan.
This is such an important topic, folks. We're joined today
by Jan Thompson. She's a trusted friend and founder of
One Degree Advisors. She's also a certified Kingdom advisor. This
is Faith and Finance Live. We're just getting started. Thanks
(05:34):
for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. We're
talking today about creating a family legacy. And that is
so much more than just your financial legacy. In fact,
that's just one piece. And with us today, Jan Thompson,
she serves on the board of directors here at Kingdom Advisors.
She's also the founder of One Degree Advisors. She's a
CFP and a certified Kingdom advisor, and really has dedicated
(05:59):
this season of her career to just pouring into families
around this idea of an intentional legacy. And Jan, before
the break, you were talking about how legacy is really multifaceted.
And and so with that in mind, how do you
help families begin to shift their focus toward passing on
values and not just staying focused on the wealth?
S3 (06:22):
Well, interestingly, according to the research, the failure of legacies
is usually not from flawed legal or financial planning. It's
really from a lack of intentionally communicating with and preparing heirs.
So I always tell people it has to start with
being intentional. We will all experience three legacies. It's the
(06:42):
one you inherited, the one you are currently living out,
and the one that you're going to leave behind. Well,
you can't really do anything about the one you inherited,
it is what it is. But you have a great
deal of control and influence over the one you're both
living and leaving. And so it starts with the first
generation who's determined to change the trajectory of their legacy story.
(07:05):
So I'll just share a personal story here. I saw
this so clearly through my parents legacy journey. They came
from sad, broken, dysfunctional backgrounds that started in their early childhood,
having been raised in an institutional home for children. They
met there and they determined when they married that they
were going to create the kind of home environment with
deep family roots that they missed. So they were introduced
(07:28):
shortly after they were married to Jesus Christ. And that
set them on a course to intentionally establish strong values
and purpose filled living founded in biblical truth, which then
dramatically altered the course of the family legacy that I inherited.
And that legacy continues to thrive now, with the fourth
generation standing tall on those same values and purpose. Because
(07:50):
a young couple back in 1940, when they got married,
made strategic changes to alter their own legacy. Story.
S2 (07:58):
Wow. That is so powerful. And I think a perfect
illustration of what we're talking about here today. Well, let's
move to the second really key idea you want to
share with us. And that is that wisdom must come
before wealth. And, you know, we talk about that so
often here at fortify. I'd love for you to unpack
that for us a bit. What does it look like
(08:20):
to pass? Not just resources, but biblical wisdom with intentionality.
S3 (08:25):
We are in the midst of the largest wealth transfer
in history. Yet the statistics on wealth lasting beyond the
third generation is pretty abysmal. Why is that? Well, the
top three reasons that legacies fail are one. There's a
lack of trust in communication among the family members, or two.
The heirs are unprepared and don't know what to do
(08:48):
with what they receive. And the third one is there's
an absence of shared values and a cohesive family vision.
And the heirs just don't know what's expected of them,
how to steward this wisely. So it's not just about
passing on financial resources. It's really about preparing the next
generation to handle those resources with wisdom, which then in
(09:10):
turn leads to unity. So wealth is a great tool,
but without the wisdom to handle it wisely. With unity,
division often occurs.
S2 (09:20):
Yeah. So as you come alongside families, Jan, they're at
one degree advisors. How do you prepare them to help
the next generation manage the wealth they'll one day receive? Wisely.
Because we know that money is going to propel. It's
the fuel that's going to propel them in whatever direction
they're heading. And so we want to make sure that
that's being met with the right heart posture when it's received.
S3 (09:43):
Oh, you're so right. There's a powerful Formula that answers
this question, and it's found in Psalm 78 five through seven.
It really specifically speaks to five generations. It says fathers
tell their children to tell the next generation, even the
children yet to be born and their children too. There's
three things that you can trust God. How do you
(10:06):
do that? By remembering his works. In other words, share
your stories. And then by living in obedience. So I
always tell families that we serve the same God of Abraham, Isaac,
and Jacob. The biblical accounts of God's favor and blessing
through their obedience that we read about in Scripture isn't
just ancient history. There are lessons for us to remember
(10:28):
what God did then, because through our own unique faith,
journey and obedience, he wants to continue to do that
again for generations to come. And then, as you recall,
those family stories of how God showed up. Study your
family and begin identifying those values that altered your legacy journey.
It could be great choices or major mistakes that God redeemed. Yeah,
(10:51):
but look for ways to have those open, authentic conversations
about your life's purpose, your values, responsibilities, expectations. Then, at
appropriate ages, begin sharing more of your story along with
your estate plan and financial plans, but do so through
the filter of values and principles that go beyond those numbers.
(11:11):
And for those who want a little more support, I'm
launching a new complimentary weekly email post to help equip
families with concepts and action steps that they can implement
to change or strengthen their family legacy trajectory. And anyone
can sign up for that weekly email it's going to
be at. The website is going to be somewhere on purpose.
It's just like it sounds. We also have more hands
(11:34):
on coaching that we do through our own legacy planning.
At One Degree Advisors, we've developed two programs. One of
them is called the North Star Program. This is for
generation one, and that helps them identify their family's true north.
Who you are, what you stand for, what matters most,
what you envision for future generations. And we create that
(11:54):
generational roadmap that becomes a visual for future generations to
capture those concepts. And then those who want more multi-generational
coaching we offer. The navigation program is designed to bring
your legacy vision to life, and this is very customized,
hands on coaching experience with immersive activities designed to build
(12:15):
a vibrant living legacy among multiple generations. And then there's
one other thing that we're working on, and there are
several of us at Kingdom Advisors who are actively working
in this area with multi-generational legacy planning. So we're now
working with other certified Kingdom advisors in our network to
equip them to have these legacy conversations with their clients.
(12:36):
So more will be coming as we continue to build
this out through Kingdom Advisors.
S2 (12:40):
Well, I'm so excited about the resources you just mentioned
and what's happening here at Kingdom Advisors with other advisors
like you, Jan, and your team that are focused on
this area of family legacy. So, folks, I couldn't underscore
what she just shared. More significantly. Jan, we've got about
a minute left. Let's finish with the need to be
(13:00):
intentional because this just doesn't happen automatically. Um, you have
to be intentional as a family to do what you're
describing here, right?
S3 (13:10):
Right. Yeah. Psalm 71 tells us, even when I'm old
and gray, don't forsake me, my God, until I declare
your power to the next generation. So your faith journey
is unique and it matters. Ask God to give you
the insight into your best next step, to declare how
he's shown up for you, and begin building that same
trust and communication with those that matter most. Then I
(13:31):
tell people, today is the day to start. You may
not have done anything yesterday or prior to that, but
you can do something today. Hope isn't a strategy. There
are two main reasons I continue to hear from families
why they've not started building an intentional legacy. One they
have no idea where to start. Or two, they put
it off, believing that they'll tackle it when they aren't
quite so busy or distracted or pressured. I say procrastination
(13:54):
is that silent killer of a strong family legacy. Yes.
And another just expose them to the needs of others.
A missions trip to a foreign country, or a current
service project in your own backyard where the entire family
gets involved in serving together.
S2 (14:07):
Wow. That's powerful. Well, we've just scratched the surface, so
we're going to have to have you back. But, Jan,
thanks for your time today.
S3 (14:14):
Thank you.
S2 (14:14):
That's Jan Thompson, certified Kingdom advisor and founder of One
Degree Advisors. If you want to learn more, go to
One Degree advisors.com. A quick break and back with your
questions after this. Stick around. Hey, great to have you
(14:35):
with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West,
your host. Our team is away from the studio today,
so don't call in. But coming up a little later,
we'll have more of your questions right here on the program. Hey,
let me take a moment to mention the Faith fi app.
We'd love for you to download it. Just head to
your app store wherever you download apps and search for
(14:57):
Faith fi. That's Faith fi. You can manage your money.
You can access the best content in biblical finance podcasts, articles,
and videos. You can also participate in our Faith fi community,
where you can post questions and get answers from others
on their stewardship journey. You'll find it in your app store.
Just search for Faith fi or if it's easier, head
(15:18):
to our website at Faith Philly.com. That's Faith fi and
you'll see the app right there on the home page. Uh,
before we head to the phones in the news, job
change is on the rise. Many Americans are leaving behind
old 401 accounts, and it's costing them, as of 2023,
nearly 30 million. Forgotten 401 held 1.65 trillion. Yeah, with
(15:44):
a T in assets left unmanaged. Well, these accounts often
incur additional fees. Some former employees may unknowingly pay monthly
non employee maintenance fees, which can quietly drain thousands from
their retirement savings over time. Not to mention, the lost
compounding growth. While rolling over funds to an IRA is
(16:05):
one option, it's not always cheaper. IRAs can carry higher
investment fees depending upon which approach you take, and research
suggests that those rollovers could cost U.S. workers a good
bit 45 billion over 25 years. Um, so instead, you
should consolidate your retirement savings by I think my first
(16:27):
option would be you rolling those funds into your new
employer's plan or tracking down lost accounts through resources like
the Department of Labor's new Lost and Found Database, or
the National Registry of Unclaimed Retirement Benefits. You'll find that
unclaimed retirement benefits.com. Bottom line don't ignore your old 401.
(16:50):
Try to consolidate it with an existing one or roll
it out to that IRA. Remember, you do have options
when it comes to that IRA in terms of whether
you'll manage it yourself. With a low cost provider, you
could use a robo solution. You could hire an advisor
if you have enough in that account to justify, um,
bringing on a wealth manager. But you just don't want
(17:11):
to let it sit. You certainly don't want to forget
about it, so hopefully that's a good reminder for you today.
All right. Let's dive into your questions. We're going to
begin in Oklahoma. Hi, Luke. How can I help you, sir?
S4 (17:23):
Hi, Rob. Hi, Rob. Good morning. Good morning. Um. Thanks. Show.
I became a big fan when I discovered it recently.
I listened as much as I can.
S2 (17:31):
Awesome. That's great. Thank you.
S4 (17:33):
Yeah. Um, my wife and I are about to, uh,
buy a house. It's our first house. And, um, we
are we're getting closer to to actually finishing, uh, getting
getting through it, which we've tried many times before, but
never did. We bounced around a lot with the military,
but I was wondering if you could help me, um,
(17:53):
weigh in on a 15 year mortgage versus the the
30 year mortgage? Um, I am looking to use a
VA loan, but we are going to be putting money down.
It comes down to the the monthly cash flow, I think.
And it looks like, um, it looks like for the
15 year mortgage, uh, we would be right about at 25%
(18:15):
of our monthly income to cover the, the principal interest,
taxes and insurance. And, um, with the 30 year, it's
more like 20% or just just under 20%.
S2 (18:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I love the 15 year
in the sense that you'll pay off the debt much faster,
which saves yourself, you know, potentially tens of thousands of
dollars in interest. You know, one option would be and
this is kind of a middle ground, is you'd go
ahead and take out the 30 year loan, but you
(18:48):
treat it like it's a 15. So you could even
have your mortgage company. Or you could do this yourself
on with just one of these free online tools where
you'd run the amortization schedule that says, okay, what would
I need to send every month to pay this 30
year mortgage like it's a 15? Uh, yes. You're going
to end up with a slightly higher interest rate, but
(19:10):
I think that's a worthwhile trade off to at least consider,
because the benefit of doing that is if you ever
got into a position where you know you lost a
job or you had a, you know, you had your, uh,
your income took a dip or, you know, you had
some unnecessary or, excuse me, unexpected expenses come out of
(19:31):
left field that consumed, you know, a good bit of
your income, you'd have the ability to drop back to
that lower 30 year amortized amortized payment. But, you know,
assuming everything goes according to plan, you just pay it
like it's a 15. And I think you kind of
have the the best of both worlds. Does that make sense?
S4 (19:50):
Yes it does. Thank you.
S2 (19:52):
Yeah. So I think the key though is with that
plan is you've got to really, you know, stay disciplined
and stick to the plan because lifestyle creep can interfere
with your extra principal payments. So you go into this thinking,
oh yeah I'm going to get that 30 year and
I'm only going to drop down to the 30 year
payment if something, you know, really goes haywire. And, you know,
(20:15):
I'm going to make that 15 year and all of
a sudden you find other places to use that money.
And the 30 year just kind of becomes the norm.
So just guard against that. Um, you know, if you can. And,
and I would say just really make a commitment between
you and your wife that, hey, we're going to treat
this like a 15. We're not even going to consider.
We've got that option to pay less. Um, but again,
(20:36):
as a fail safe, you could always drop down to
that lower amount, if that makes sense.
S4 (20:41):
Yeah. No, it does make sense. And that's exactly that's
partly why I was seeking advice, because I think my
wife and I just have different personalities about money, and
I'd just as soon have less today. For more tomorrow. Um,
and I think she prefers the flexibility and, and I
would worry about that lifestyle creep too, like you mentioned.
S2 (21:02):
Yeah, yeah. And so I think you guys would have
to go into it saying, hey, we need to hold
each other accountable. We're just going to treat this like
a 15 year, uh, knowing that we've got this option
to drop down if we absolutely had to. But we're
going to build our plan as if we have this
15 year mortgage. And, you know, I think the the
key when we have different money personalities and usually that's
(21:23):
the way it is. One's the spender, one's the saver. And,
you know, it comes down to your temperament and your
personality and your upbringing. There's you know, you need to
appreciate what each is bringing to the table. You know,
one might want to use it now for experiences and enjoyment.
The other might want to save for the future. But
in the middle of that, I think you can find
God's heart and really reflect him more fully when you
(21:46):
both bring your personalities to the table, but it ultimately
has to result in a plan that reflects your values
at the end of the day. Thanks for your call, Luke.
God bless you, my friend. We'll be right back. Thanks
so much for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live.
(22:08):
I'm Rob West, your host. Hey, our team is away
from the studio today. We're not here, but we've got
some great questions that we lined up in advance. I
know you'll enjoy those a little later in our broadcast. Folks,
have you checked out recently? Our website at Faith. Com
if not, I'd encourage you to do that. You'll find
our community there where you can post questions and comments.
(22:28):
here from others that are on the stewardship journey as well.
You can also access our content and check out the
Faith fi app. It's at Faith Philly.com. We're going to
head to Oklahoma in a bit and talk about emergency
reserves for churches. That's a great conversation. But first to
New Mexico Joseph. Go ahead sir.
S5 (22:46):
Uh, yes. Rob, thanks for taking my phone call. Sure.
And I really, really do appreciate your program, man.
S2 (22:52):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
S5 (22:54):
But, uh, I have a question. I actually won a house, uh,
from Saint Jude dream home giveaway.
S2 (23:03):
Wow. And congratulations.
S5 (23:06):
I know, believe it or not, when they called me
and to tell me I'm sorry about. I have a
little bit of a cold right now. But anyway, uh,
they called me up. The girl called me up and said,
you won this house. And I hung up on her
because I just thought it was a scam. Yeah. And so, anyway, uh,
she called me back, and I said, well, listen, I'm
(23:26):
going to hang up now. I'm going to call you
back to make sure this is legit. And it was.
It was legit. I won AA2 thousand 300 square foot
home on. It's a smart home and it's on a
half acre of land. And the house is valued at
about $570,000. Wow. Incredible. Yeah. I mean, it was just
(23:49):
a blessing from God. Really? Um, our family's always been
big givers, and we've always, you know, done the Dave
Ramsey thing. Just living debt free. And if you can't
afford something, you know, to pay for it, cash, you
don't buy it. Yeah, yeah, but.
S2 (24:05):
What a novel idea, right?
S5 (24:07):
Oh, I know, but anyway, um, I had to get
into this house. I had to pay. I think it
was right around 35 to 37% in taxes. Yeah. Which
came out to be $205,000. And I had the money.
So I went ahead and and got into the house
And I'm getting ready to sell the house. And I
(24:30):
talked to my CPA, and they were saying that there's
going to be another 20% capital gains on that house.
S2 (24:37):
Interesting. Well, the thing that's confusing to me, and I'm
not a CPA, so I would take his his counsel
on this. But you you paid the tax on the winnings.
And so in order to determine the cost basis of
a house won in a drawing or sweepstakes or whatever
it would be, is generally based on my understanding the
cost basis of the home would be the fair market
(25:00):
value on the date you officially received ownership. Uh, because
you've paid the tax on the winnings. And now we
need to determine is there a capital gain. And in
order for you to get the long term capital gain,
which would either be zero, 15 or 20%, you would
determine as long as you've held it for at least
(25:20):
a year, you would get the long term capital gain.
But I would question whether there's any gain at all because,
you know, are you turning around and selling it pretty
soon after you received it?
S5 (25:32):
No, I've had the house for a couple of years now.
S2 (25:34):
Okay. And has it appreciated since you got it?
S5 (25:38):
Um, it stayed pretty much the same because of, uh,
you know, the interest rates. And, you know, I mean,
it's still about that. I could probably sell it for
the 570.
S2 (25:49):
Yeah. Yeah. So is he saying the entire value of
the home is a capital gain?
S5 (25:56):
That's what they're saying. You know, maybe I misunderstood them
or something. I don't know, that's why I'm doing the
research to, you know, kind of figure out how I
can keep the tax burden down.
S2 (26:09):
Yeah. Well, the fair market value is typically the value
stated by the contest sponsor, which would have been the
the amount that would have been taxable to you. Um,
you know, it could be based on a professional appraisal
or the price the sponsor paid for the house. Um,
you know, and then, uh, in terms of you having
(26:31):
a capital gain, it would really be just the difference between, uh,
your selling price and, you know, the adjusted cost basis,
which is, you know, that fair market value when you
received it, you know, um, plus any major renovations, which
I can't imagine you had any at all, um, you know,
(26:51):
or landscaping improvements, things that added to the value of
the home. Um, and then, you know, you would come
up with your, your capital gain. And as long as
you held the property for at least a year, then
whatever gain you had would then help you determine, along
with your income, what long term capital gain rate you pay. So,
(27:12):
you know, for 2025, um, you know, if you have
are you married or single?
S5 (27:18):
I'm single.
S2 (27:19):
Okay. So single filing status for 2025. If you have
taxable income between 48,351 and 533,000, you'd pay 15%. But again,
that would only be based on the gain that you had.
And I think based on what I'm hearing, you could
(27:41):
make the case there isn't any gain because it hasn't
appreciated since the fair market value of what you receive.
So I think what you need to do next is
go back to your CPA and just say, help me
understand here why there's a capital gain, just given that
this hasn't appreciated since I received it.
S5 (27:59):
Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. I just, you know,
when you pay out more than 50% in taxes.
S2 (28:07):
Yeah.
S5 (28:08):
It kind of gets to you.
S2 (28:09):
Yeah. Well, yeah, again, I think, uh, you know, the con,
the contest reports, the fair market value, and that becomes
your cost basis. Uh, and you've already paid the taxes
on the winnings. So, you know, I think that's your
next step here. Hopefully they'll be good news. Maybe you
just misunderstood. Or maybe I'm missing something here, but, um,
I think it's at least worth you checking back in
(28:30):
with your, uh, your tax professional. Uh, by the way,
in terms of determining, uh, you know, what income goes into, uh, your,
you know, cost basis or, excuse me, determining your long
term capital gain bracket. It's really what's called total taxable income.
So it's your AGI, your adjusted gross income, which includes
(28:50):
wages and salaries and bonuses and interest and dividends, um,
and then any long term capital gains. So the gain
from the sale of the home would be added in.
And when you put all that taxable income together, um,
you know, minus any deductions, then you'd, you know, that
would help you determine, okay, where do I fall? And
(29:10):
that's why most people, when you put all that together
fall in that 15% bracket. But um or rate. But again,
the question here is, is there any gain at all
to even be concerned about? And that's where I think
you need to go next, Joseph. Congratulations again. What a
blessing and thanks for calling today. We appreciate you being
on the program. Let's go to Oklahoma. Quinton, how can
(29:33):
I help?
S6 (29:34):
Nice to speak with you, Rob. How are you today?
S2 (29:36):
I'm doing great. Nice to speak with you as well.
S6 (29:39):
Yeah. Thank you. So I was just looking for a
little guidance as to whether or not there are any
principles out there related to the amount of cash reserves,
emergency fund that a church should maintain. Certainly, we know,
you know, some rules of thumb around around personal financial planning,
but wasn't sure if those principles applied at the church
(30:00):
level as well.
S2 (30:01):
Yeah, I think they do. And I think it's really
up to each church to determine what is that right amount.
You know, I think no reserves is generally considered inadequate
and probably something more than 12 months, uh, of of, uh,
operations and expenses in reserve is, you know, generally considered excessive.
So the question is, where does your church want to fall?
(30:24):
And I'm saying beyond any requirements from your mortgage, if
you have one, there's a great article that I would
direct you to, um, if you just do an internet
search for it. So that's for the Evangelical Council for
Financial Accountability for Church Reserves. You will find an article
(30:46):
called Church Cash Reserves How Much is Enough by Dan
Busby and Michael Martin. And I think that's going to
give you a lot of, uh, things to think about
and share with others in your church. Uh, we got
to hit a break. We'll be right back.
S7 (31:05):
This is our final segment of a faith and finance
live program that we previously recorded. Thanks so much for
being with us today, and we hope you'll stick around
and enjoy the rest of the program.
S2 (31:15):
Him before the break. We were talking to Quentin. He's
just wondering about the appropriate amount of reserves for his church.
You know, we talk a lot here about the importance
of an emergency fund personally having at least 3 to
6 months expenses, at least as a starting point, as
a rule of thumb, in emergency reserves for the unexpected.
But what about your church? Is there a reason to
(31:37):
have an emergency fund as a church? And I think
we can get on, you know, opposite ends or the
the extremes. I mean, one extreme, you know, basically says, well,
God will provide, you know, we don't need anything in reserves.
And the other extreme is something more than a year's
worth of expenses. And, you know, I would say the
(31:59):
reason that's extreme is, remember, you know, we're giving to
the local church to do the work of the church
right now. And so although there's very appropriate reasons to
set aside, and we'll talk about those in a second
in terms of the operating reserves beyond designated funds beyond
an expansion project, beyond, you know, a mortgage reserve requirement
(32:19):
from the bank, operating reserves, probably excessive to have more
than 12 months or anywhere close to that, just because
that's money that could be put into winning the lost and,
you know, discipling and equipping the body and paying the
pastors and all the other things that go in to
the church operations. But where do you find, you know,
that appropriate amount for your church? Well, you know, the
(32:42):
pastor and the executive team and the lay leaders, depending
on the size of your church. I think really for that,
that reserve that is truly operating reserve, beyond those things
that I mentioned, beyond designated gifts and mortgage reserves and
capital replacements and maybe a ministry expansion fund for purely
(33:03):
operating reserves, uh, you know, it's probably best to measure
it in a number of months and probably best for
you to, you know, for the leadership team, maybe the
finance team with the pastor to develop a policy, a
philosophy around how much we feel like we want to
have and then adopt that. Um, and then to the
(33:27):
extent you're below it, build it into the, the budget. Uh,
you know, maybe a budget on 90% of your expected
revenues so that 10% can fund that emergency line, and
maybe you include a cash reserves line in the budget
until you, you know, fully fund that. And I would
say communicate that to the church. Um, you know, it
doesn't exhibit a lack of faith in my view. It
(33:49):
really just reflects a tentativeness to good stewardship, uh, which
we see clearly in God's Word. And so I think,
you know, proactive church administrators communicate both clear measurements and
the rationale for the levels of cash reserves. And this
can give the congregation really greater confidence for even greater giving,
(34:10):
because there's great stewardship being exercised. As I mentioned to Quinton,
if you're on a finance committee or you're helping your
church navigate this, maybe you're a pastor, you're wondering about this.
There's a great article by Dan Busby and Michael Martin, uh,
put out by the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, kind
of the gold standard for financial stewardship. If you just
(34:32):
go to your internet search browser of choice and search
engine and just search for, for for church cash reserves,
you will find a great article called Church Cash Reserves.
How much is enough? And I think it'll give you
a lot to think about and perhaps share with your
finance committee. All right, let's head back to the phones.
Today we're going to go to, uh, Missouri. Darren. Go ahead.
S8 (34:55):
Enjoy listening to your program while I'm at work. I'm self-employed. Carpenter.
S2 (35:00):
Oh, cool.
S8 (35:00):
And I'm I have a 30 year mortgage. It's an
adjustable rate mortgage that can change every five years.
S2 (35:10):
Okay.
S8 (35:10):
And so my first five years is about up. I
think it's up in June. And I heard your program
on reverse mortgages. And so I was just kind of
curious if that would be an option to use as
basically to finance. I'm, you know, I don't have I'm
(35:31):
not concerned about not being able to pay it.
S2 (35:33):
But yeah.
S8 (35:35):
That would give you the option of not, uh, you know,
if a month would be tight, then, you know, you
wouldn't have to make that payment. But then on the
other hand, then do you lose the mortgage interest tax
deduction and and how how can I truly compare just
refinancing it through through the bank or you know, what
(35:57):
would be beneficial.
S2 (35:58):
Yeah. Uh, what is your age?
S8 (36:02):
I'm 51.
S2 (36:03):
Okay. Uh, yeah. So you wouldn't qualify for the reverse.
You have to be B 62. In order to, uh,
go into a hecm a home equity conversion mortgage. Um,
so you're still a little ways off. You've got to
be 62. You got to have at least 50% equity
in your home. And then you could either replace an
(36:24):
existing mortgage, kind of a forward mortgage with a scheduled
monthly payment with a reverse mortgage, by just paying it
off and then having that payment be optional, uh, or
in addition to paying it off, if you still have
a mortgage, you could then have a line of credit
available to you for a portion of the remaining equity,
or even an income stream, a check for life. And
(36:45):
then you'd continue to get the increases or the appreciation
in the property, which could make even more available down
the road. That payment is optional. To your point, there are,
of course, expenses. I mean, right up front there's a 2%
charge that goes straight to the FHA, Federal Housing Administration,
and that is really that fee ensures that you will
(37:07):
never owe. You cannot owe more than the house is worth.
So regardless of, you know what happens to the housing
market and the economy, regardless of how much they pay
out to you, you and or your estate will never
owe more than the the value of that home after
it's sold. Uh, and that's what that 2% fee goes to.
And then there's, you know, there are fees. And then
(37:28):
of course, you'd have an interest rate, which would be variable, uh,
you know, moving forward for whatever outstanding balance there is,
you would have the option to pay it down at
any time. But again, you don't have to. And that's
where a lot of people, especially those in that season
of life 62 and beyond, where maybe they haven't saved enough,
they want to stay in the home, they're able to
(37:49):
still pay the taxes and the insurance don't want to
have to move. And they have a mortgage, which more
than 50% of retirees now do in retirement. And they
just don't want to have to bear that payment. Uh,
or they need that income stream coming out of the
equity just as a supplement to their Social Security, because
(38:09):
they're struggling to make ends meet. You know, that could
be a game changer. Uh, but you got to count
the cost, and it's got to be a good fit
for you. It's a planning tool. It's not for everyone. Uh,
but you do have to be 62 to even consider it.
Is that helpful? Darren, did we lose you? All right,
I think we did. But hopefully that gives you, uh, some,
(38:32):
some good information, Darren, to think about. And, um, you know,
I think this is an often misunderstood financial planning tool,
the reverse mortgage. And hopefully we shed a little light
on it today. Uh, let's go to Ohio. Hi, James.
How can I help, sir?
S4 (38:46):
Hi, Rob.
S9 (38:46):
Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Yeah, I'm working and
I'm married. Um, will be at full retirement age at
the end of the towards the end of the year,
and I just wonder if I should take my Social
Security at 60, basically 67. And, you know, save and
(39:09):
invest and, you know, do do things. Um, charitable things
like that. Or just keep working and keeping my budget
on track, but getting that higher income down the road. Uh,
from Social Security.
S2 (39:26):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question. And it's one that
a lot of people, uh, you know, uh, really wrestle with. And,
you know, the reason that I think for people who
are healthy, I mean, obviously the Lord knows whether we'll
take our next breath, but just, you know, just kind
of stepping back for a second if you're relatively healthy
and you don't need the money because you're continuing to
(39:48):
work and probably finding a lot of enjoyment in that,
the idea that you would continue to let that increase
by 8% a year, up until 70 is something that's
pretty attractive because, you know, you could get, uh, a benefit,
you know, that's, you know, somewhere between, you know, 25
and 32% higher. So if your full retirement age benefit,
(40:09):
let's say, was 2500 a month, I mean, you could
be talking about a check 3100 to 3300 a month
starting at age 70. Now, you would need to live
into your mid 80s, uh, you know, in order to
be paid back for everything you gave up, and then
you'd have that higher, you know, payout for the rest
(40:30):
of your life, uh, you know. So I think, you know,
you could end up with if you live to age 90,
you could, uh, delaying could result in an additional $100,000
or more in lifetime payments. Um, you know, just by
waiting and getting that higher check. And so that guaranteed
increase is nice because we certainly don't have any guarantees
(40:51):
in the market. If you were to take it now,
at the same time, what I would say is if
you're saying, listen, I'd rather get that money into work,
into God's economy right now and give it away and
do some things that I really, you know, am passionate
and burdened about. And I don't want to have to wait.
And I don't know how long, you know, the Lord's
going to tarry, and I certainly don't know how long
he's got for me here. I wouldn't argue with that
(41:14):
one bit. I would say go for it. But I
think if we just purely look at the math equation,
I think those are the reasons why a lot of
people decide to wait, um, to avoid unnecessary taxation while
you're still earning a salary because a higher percentage of
your Social Security could be taxable to increase your benefit, uh,
(41:35):
and to increase your survivor benefit if you're married. Does
that make sense?
S9 (41:40):
Yeah. That's great, I appreciate it. Thank you.
S2 (41:43):
All right. James. Lord bless you, sir. We appreciate you
calling today. Well, folks, uh, that's why we do what
we do here on the program each day. This is
important stuff. Not because I have a lot of brilliant ideas,
but because God's word does. And you and I have
been tasked with a really important job responsibility, and that
is to manage or steward the King of Kings resources.
(42:04):
Let's get that right. Let's do that together. And we
gather together each day on this program to do that
because we know doesn't belong to us. It belongs to him.
And our goal is faithfulness, long obedience in the same
direction in every area of life. But also certainly that
includes this area of money management. Hey, if you'd like
to support our work here, it'd be a real blessing
if you became a faith V partner. Those are those
(42:25):
that come alongside us every month, $35 or more. It's huge.
If you've found a benefit in this ministry and this program,
becoming a partner would be a real blessing to us.
Faithfully click give. We'll send you pre-release copies of studies
and devotionals and our new quarterly publication, Faithful Steward. Thanks
to my team today. Thank you for being here as well.
Faith and Finance Live is a partnership between Moody Radio
(42:47):
and Faith V. Hope. You have a great rest of
your day and come back and join us next time.
We'll see you then. Bye bye.
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Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.