June 23, 2025 • 42 mins
“For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven…” – Ecclesiastes 3:1. God has designed life to unfold in seasons. With each one comes new challenges, opportunities, and, sometimes, new finish lines. On Faith & Finance Live, Cody Hobelmann joins Rob West to discuss why it’s not only okay to adjust your financial finish line—it’s often the wise and faithful thing to do. Then, Rob addresses your calls and questions. Listen for Faith & Finance Live—where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances, weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:08):
For everything. There is a season and a time for
every matter under heaven. Ecclesiastes three one. Hi, I'm Rob West.
God has designed life to unfold in seasons, and with
each one comes new challenges, opportunities, and sometimes new finish lines. Today,
Cody Hobelman joins us to talk about why it's not
only okay to adjust your financial finish line, it's often
(00:31):
the wise and faithful thing to do. And then it's
on to your calls at 800, 500, 25, 7000. That's 805, two, five, 7000.
This is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your
financial journey. Well, we're glad to welcome Cody Hobelman back
to the program. He's a certified financial planner and a
(00:51):
certified Kingdom advisor and as of last month, now serving
as a wealth advisor at Wealth Squared alongside our friend
Rachel McDonough Cody is also a trusted contributor to our
quarterly publication, Faithful Steward and Cody, it is great to
have you back with us.
S2 (01:07):
Thanks, Rob. It's great to be here again.
S1 (01:09):
Cody, before we dive into your latest article for Faithful
Steward Magazine, I'd love to have our audience hear about
your experience as a Certified Kingdom Advisor. Would you take
a moment and just share what you think makes a
different from a typical financial advisor?
S2 (01:25):
Absolutely. I think the exam and curriculum was one of
the most impactful that I have ever taken personally. The
thing that sets the CCA apart from another financial advisor
is the acknowledgement that Scripture is our source of wisdom
for life, but specifically our finances as well. And CCAs
(01:48):
have a commitment to communicating truth, not just the expertise
that we gained through practice.
S1 (01:54):
Um, yeah. Well, I appreciate that. I think that really
says it very, very well. And I think the differentiator
is around the kinds of conversations the CAA has with
his or her client. And this topic today of finish lines,
I think, is right in the bull's eye of the
types of different conversations you and others are having. I'd
(02:14):
love to dive into that. You've been exploring the idea
of financial finish lines, beginning with the concept of a
lifestyle finish line, but in your latest Faithful Steward article, Cody,
you had an article called A Spending Finish Line is
just the beginning, where you make the point that your
first finish line doesn't have to be your last. Talk
(02:34):
about why that's an important perspective for people to understand.
S2 (02:38):
Yeah, I think the idea of setting a finish line
can feel very final, and there's a pressure to get
it exactly right. But over the years, we've learned that
it's not necessary to get it exactly right. It's more
important that we're growing in our journey. And so I
like to remind folks that this is a way that
we can set our first finish line, and through practice,
(02:59):
we're going to refine it. And over time, we're going
to learn how to actually live life with a finish
line appropriately. In fact, there's probably situations where we should
consider adjusting our finish line through our time.
S1 (03:10):
Yeah, and let's dive into that a bit. When should
someone consider revisiting or adjusting their lifestyle finish line?
S2 (03:17):
I think it's healthy, just like a financial plan to
take a look at our financial finish line annually, because
a lot can change in a year, but certainly when
there are big changes in our lives, maybe it's a
new person that we're financially responsible for, or a person
that we're no longer financially responsible for. It could be
moving to a different geography, where the cost of living
(03:38):
is dramatically different, or just major events in life, like
changes to our health. These all could change what it
costs to maintain the same lifestyle, and would be triggers
that would cause us to take a second look at
our financial finish lines.
S1 (03:53):
Yeah. Now, as a part of this, we're going to
dig into some of the mechanics of what it looks
like to set a lifestyle finish line, and how you
can determine what is truly enough for retirement. And what
about some of the unknowns in your life? We'll get
into all of that. But before we head to this
first break, Cody, I'd love for you just to describe
and the work you've done at Finish Line. Just some
(04:15):
of the fruit, the benefits that come by capping your
lifestyle and setting that finish line even in your own
spiritual journey.
S2 (04:23):
Yeah, I'd love to. I think the idea when we
talk about limits or caps, it sounds like a restriction.
But what I've actually found is this is actually a
way that we can gain freedom. And this is a
biblical principle in other areas of life. It's just a
tool that we can use to apply and how we
manage our financial resources. And so through setting a financial
(04:44):
finish line, what I've actually found is contentment, peace and
purpose in my own life.
S1 (04:51):
It's so good. Well, folks, if you want to learn
more about what Cody's doing, head to finish line pledge.com,
that's finish line pledge.com. We're going to take a quick break.
When we come back much more with Cody. We'll get
into some of the mechanics of how you should think
about a finish line, when you should adjust it, and
how you get started. We're talking with Cody Hobelman today.
(05:12):
He's a wealth advisor at Wealth Squared. His article appears
in the latest edition of Faithful Steward. If you'd like
to learn how you can get a copy, go to afi.com.
We'll be right back. Great to have you with us
(05:34):
today on Faith and Finance live. I'm Rob West with
me today. My friend Cody Hoberman, certified Kingdom advisor and
certified financial planner. He's a wealth advisor at Wealth Squared.
He's also a frequent contributor here at Faith Fi, and
in our recent edition of our Faithful Steward magazine, He
had a really powerful article on changing your financial finish line.
(05:55):
Now you may say, what is a finish line? So, Cody,
before we get into some of the finer points of this,
just give us a simple definition. What is a financial
finish line?
S2 (06:05):
A financial finish line is simply an answer to the
question how much is enough? It helps us separate between
what we intend to consume for our own use, and
what we choose to make available for investing in God's kingdom.
S1 (06:18):
Yeah, that's so helpful. Now, I know you emphasized that
a lifestyle finish line and let's just describe the two.
We can have a lifestyle or a spending finish line
and that's important. We can also have an accumulation finish
line that really is about our balance sheet or our
net worth. But that lifestyle finish line is just one
piece of the broader financial picture. So how does it
(06:40):
go beyond just saving and preparing for retirement?
S2 (06:44):
Yeah, I think the lifestyle and the net worth or
accumulation finish line can actually be related to each other.
We can think about the ways that we use money
as divided into four categories. First is personal spending. This
is what we're going to use for our own lifestyle
in the next month or the next year. For example.
Second bucket is planning ahead for the future. These are
(07:07):
things that we're going to spend on our lifestyle in
the future. Next is taxes. We don't have to go
into detail on that. We're all familiar and the last
is building God's kingdom. This is the portion that we've
decided in advance we're not going to use on ourselves.
And so the lifestyle finish line helps us understand what's
an appropriate amount to spend on ourselves and our lifestyle.
(07:28):
And this can help us inform the way that we
do retirement planning, how much we save for the future
and how much we invest.
S1 (07:36):
Yeah, that's exactly right, because that lifestyle finish line really
drives the other finish line, which is how much you're
ultimately going to need for a net worth finish line.
So let's unpack that a bit. Explain a Splaying a
net worth finish line, what it entails and how it works.
S2 (07:51):
A net worth finish line is is really an amount
that we think is appropriate to accumulate throughout our lifetime.
So this is a number that we can arrive at
through financial planning. But at its core, this concept really
comes from Luke 12 and the parable of the bigger barns,
where the wealthy farmer accumulated far more than he ever needed,
(08:12):
which created wastefulness and missed opportunities for his life. And
so he expected to have a long life where he
could mobilize all these resources and a number of ways.
But he wasn't promised that.
S1 (08:24):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And you really highlight three areas
of what you might think of as spiritual wrestling that
play a key role in identifying that finish line. So
I'd love for you to just walk through those.
S2 (08:37):
Absolutely. The first area is the lifestyle finish line. This
is how much our lifestyle costs right now. And so
we can think of that again in an annual amount
or even in a monthly amount. Once we have an
idea of how much we're going to spend that can
help us plan for the future. The second area is
wealth transfer. We will not live forever, and some day
(08:59):
somebody else will steward the resources that we are currently stewarding,
and so we can think and plan ahead for how
much is appropriate to pass on to our heirs or
to the next stewards. And finally, is the conservative margin,
because we don't know what will happen in the future.
Life throws curveballs at us all the time, so it
(09:20):
may be wise to have a conservative margin. But there's
a limit to how much we can actually rely on
money as compared to God.
S1 (09:28):
Yeah, and that makes so much sense. I mean, when
you have these three pieces that you just outlined, Cody,
you know what your lifestyle finish line is, and you
can run a math equation to determine how much you
need to maintain that over the rest of your life,
and then how much you want to leave to heirs,
which is your wealth transfer finish line and then that
conservative margin for uncertainty. You can really back into a number.
(09:50):
Now we don't want to make it all about financial mechanics.
So you want to take that alongside your advisor hopefully
who understands these ideas but make it a matter of
prayer to ultimately arrive at that number. And then as
it relates to our conversation today, it can and does
often change over time. Cody though, when we find ourselves
(10:10):
going beyond our finish lines, maybe over accumulating, you suggest
that there's an essential question we should be asking ourselves
what is it?
S2 (10:20):
I do think it's important to step back and ask ourselves,
why am I holding on to these resources in the
first place? I think when we run through the filter
of our Ephesians 210 purpose, the good works that God
has set in advance for us, it can help to
inform how we use resources today.
S1 (10:39):
Yeah, I think that's well said. Now, when it comes
to the finish line. You really emphasize that we should
be continuing to give, even though we haven't reached that
finish line. And I'd love for you to talk about
the wrestling that goes into that idea.
S2 (10:54):
A finish line is really a tool designed to help
you prioritize generosity in how you manage resources. And so
setting a finish line that might be more than you're
currently earning, it may not feel like you have enough today.
This was certainly the case in my story, but I
wanted to prioritize generosity today, even when it didn't feel
(11:15):
like I had enough. So I recommend that you continue giving,
whether that's a percentage of your income or you set
a giving goal, which is a dollar amount, over a
period of time, to actually build the habit of giving
even before you've reached your finish line. And this helps
you prepare for the future. If God decides to give
(11:37):
an increase in the form of financial resources.
S1 (11:40):
Yeah, And that helps us fight against this idea that
that increase in standard of living shouldn't be in the
way of increasing our standard of living, which should be
the big idea. All right. So now, Cody, some listeners
might still feel unsure about where to begin. I mean,
they hear this idea. It sounds actually really exciting, something
(12:00):
they'd like to lean into. Can you offer a practical
next step on where they should start?
S2 (12:06):
Yeah, I think an easy next step is to just
try it for a period of 90 days. I've heard
multiple stories and this is actually my introduction to financial
finish lines. I decided to set a finish line for
three months and see what I learned, and it honestly
was transformational almost overnight. And it's been five years since
that moment.
S1 (12:25):
Mhm. Yeah that's powerful. And I know the implications are
financial because if you set that finish line you'll actually
have more money that you can give away. But there
are spiritual implications to this as well. What does that
look like in your life.
S2 (12:39):
A financial finish line really trained me to acknowledge God
first in stewardship decisions. And so in order to set
a finish line, we must recognize that all of the
resources that have been entrusted to us do truly belong
to God. And so it reorients us on how to
steward his resources, rather than trying to understand how much
(13:00):
of our resources we need to give to God. And
it makes me think of Second Corinthians chapter nine, where
Paul writes to the church in Corinth, you will be
enriched in every way so that you can be generous
on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result
in thanksgiving to God. So there is a financial aspect
to this conversation, but really, we are designed to be
(13:21):
worshipers of our king, and this is one way that
we can enter into that worship.
S1 (13:27):
Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, we're about out of time here.
Just about 30s left. What's one key takeaway you can
leave our listeners with today?
S2 (13:34):
The thing I'd like to leave with listeners is to
try to take that next step. It doesn't have to
be final. It doesn't have to be set in stone
for the rest of your life. But there is a
next step for you on your journey of growth as
a steward.
S1 (13:49):
Yeah, well, folks, if you want to learn more, we'd
love for you to check out Finish Line Pledge. Com.
You can also make sure that you receive every issue
of Faithful Steward when you become a faith fi partner.
When you give $35 a month or $400 a year,
just go to faith. Com. Cody, thanks for being with us.
S2 (14:08):
Thanks, Rob. Always great to be here.
S1 (14:09):
That's Cody Holman, he's certified financial planner and certified Kingdom advisor,
also wealth advisor at Wealth Squared. A quick break and
back with your questions. Call right now 800 525 7000.
Stick around.
S3 (14:30):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:53):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live here on Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. We're
about to take your calls and questions here in just
a moment. That number 800 525 7000. We've got lines open.
The calls are coming in, but we've got room for you.
800 525 7000. Uh, coming up in our final segment today,
(15:14):
Bob Dole will stop by. We'll look forward to getting
his take on the markets, the market shrugging off not
only the attack on the nuclear facilities of Iran over
the weekend, but a counterattack today in Qatar as Iran
struck back at in the direction of at least some U.S. bases. Now,
(15:37):
President Trump out late this afternoon saying that Iran gave
the U.S. advance notice of the missile attack and that
resulted in no loss of life, not even any injuries,
at least in the reporting coming out. The market liking that,
reacting positively with the Dow Jones closing up nearly 1%
today 375 points. The S&P 500 up 60 points, almost 1%
(16:01):
there as well. And the Nasdaq about the same up 1%
183 points. Oil is the big story and oil is down.
You know it spiked over the weekend. Then it settled down.
And now we're seeing oil off 7% after this Iranian
strike on the US base that left no reported casualties.
(16:24):
So the market feeling like perhaps we're not going to
see any escalation, that this was a needed response. At
least Iran felt so on the part of Iran, but
it was one that was, uh, very tame to say
the least, just given the advance notice and the fact
that there were no injuries, if that in fact proves
to be true, then, uh, if this is what it's
(16:45):
limited to, the market reacting very positively. We'll get Bob
Dole's take on this in our final segment today. But
in the meantime, we want to get to your calls
and questions with whatever's on your mind. Again, that number
800 525 7000. So let's dive in. Today. Bakersfield, California
is where we'll begin. Maria. Go right ahead.
S4 (17:05):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Thank you. I'm
going to give you the context of my dilemma. I
worked for 28 years, and I almost never paid my
tithing maybe 3 or 4 times in my life. But
after retiring in 2020, I had a transformation. So now
I think differently. And in May 2020, I started to
(17:27):
pay tithing. Um, but I was so convicted that I
wanted to pay. This time I was very cheerful and
I decided to pay. Since my years in college when
I was working as a tutor, and so far I
have paid from the years 1992 to 2012. And at
(17:49):
the beginning it was easy because, um, I was making
less money. But towards the end, now that I'm in
the year in midway on the year 2012 is like
before I could pay, um, one year in three months,
but now it takes me longer. And I remember, I
(18:10):
recall something that you mentioned that if we paid, um,
to charity, that there was not going to be taxes
incurred on that. And I thought, if that is the case,
maybe for my 400 freebie, I can take that whole
amount that I owe and pay it to the church,
but I don't know if I think I probably misunderstood
(18:32):
and I just wanted clarification on that.
S5 (18:35):
Well, I'd be and they.
S4 (18:38):
Said no, we can only give it directly to you
or to your bank account, but not to a charity.
S1 (18:43):
Yes, they are correct. I will tell you though, what
I was referring to, and we can talk about how
that may or may not apply to your situation. But
let me back up just for a second, because I
love that you're really out of a strong conviction wanting
to honor the Lord in your giving. And I think
that's fabulous. But let me just understand kind of how
you're doing it. So are you going back and you're
treating each year from the day you started moving forward,
(19:08):
as if you made the amount you made 30 years
ago and you looked at the income from each year,
and then your goal for that year is the the
equivalent tithe. Is that right?
S4 (19:19):
No. I go month by month.
S5 (19:22):
Okay.
S4 (19:23):
Like for um, like let's see. I have a notebook.
And the notebook, like the last time that I play
was this June the 1st. And, um, I was able
to pay for only three months, and that was a
(19:44):
total of 20,000. And it turns out to be with
offering is like 2800. And that's the average 2500. And
I have my pension, my house is paid, the car
is paid, and I have my emergency fund. And so
I thought, I'm I'm happy to do this more than
(20:06):
happy because it's just I don't know. I knew better,
but I never did.
S5 (20:10):
Yes.
S4 (20:11):
And now it's different.
S5 (20:13):
Well, here's.
S1 (20:14):
What I would say to that. And I want to
be very careful, because I love that you want to
honor the Lord and that you have a conviction around this.
And I think ultimately this is between you and the Lord.
I will say, though, that I believe biblical generosity is
really more than rules or percentages. And I want you.
I guess my heart is that you don't get caught
up in trying to quote, pay God back up. You know,
(20:36):
what he wants is a fully surrendered life of godliness,
which I think clearly can honor the Old Testament tithe.
But it goes far beyond that. You know, the New
Testament teaches that our giving is to be a response
to God's grace. It's to be given freely, not legalistically,
not under compulsion. It's to be joyfully given. I certainly
(20:57):
hear joy in your voice. It's to be given consistently.
We see that in the New Testament, and I would
say proportional to our financial status. And so there's there's
that aspect as well. And I'm hearing that also, and
I think it should be directed to causes that honor God.
And we see those in in Scripture. So I think
we can leave behind a simplistic picture of the tithe
(21:18):
that may be uncomfortable to some or legalistic to others,
but our prayer is that that inspires us toward biblical
stewardship and really a deeper, more holistic approach, because ultimately
our calling is to abide in Christ and to lead
a life of, I think, radical generosity that reflects his
(21:40):
justice and mercy and and faithfulness. And that's a lot harder.
But it's a grander adventure, I think. But I just
wanted to share that with you. I'm so encouraged by
what you've shared. I'll get into the details of how
to give right after this break. Stay there. We'll be
right back. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and
(22:01):
Finance Live here on Moody Radio. Before the break, we
were talking to Maria in Bakersfield, California. She's 68. She
worked for 28 years. She never tithed. But after she's
moved into retirement, she started to tithe. And she's delighted
that she's able to give as unto the Lord in
this way. She's already sent over $20,000 to her church,
(22:22):
and she's wondering about ways to do that that are
more tax efficient. But Maria, we'll get into that here
in a second. I want to give you a chance
to respond. I think the thing I was wanting to
communicate to you is I love your generous heart. I
love that you're wanting to honor the Lord. I'm hearing
joy in your voice. In doing that. I just want
to be, you know, clear. To say, though, that I
think carefully calculating our giving is good, but I want
(22:45):
to focus on this larger calling to abide in Christ
and to give faithfully as an overflow of our gratitude
to God for his grace that he's extended us. Not
because you feel like God is upset or you haven't
done enough, or you know, you feel like you have
to check a box. Does that make sense, though?
S4 (23:04):
Yes. Perfect sense. I have thought about that. Very much so.
And I also thought, remember what Sister White said, that
in the end, a lot of people are going to
give less huge amounts of money, right? Yeah. And but
in my case, I'm thinking all these things that were
not done. And, um, I want to give as much
(23:25):
as I can now, but now it doesn't bother me.
It's just. I'm fine. But before, I was never a happy,
cheerful giver. And I never gave. But this time it
doesn't matter. And now I understand that writing that she
did in there, you know, because I never felt that.
S5 (23:43):
So yes.
S4 (23:43):
Now that's my situation, but I. And that's why I
wanted to find another way where I can pay the
whole amount, whatever is the rest, which I still don't
know because I haven't added everything.
S1 (23:55):
Yes, well, I've never met an unhappy, generous person. So
clearly I think we were hard wired for giving. We
were creating the in the image of the ultimate giver.
We've got to be careful that we're not giving to
get in return or anything like that. But I think
clearly as Christ followers, we should be generous people. Now,
when it comes to giving in a tax efficient way,
(24:16):
what you were probably hearing me refer to is something
called a qualified charitable distribution. And it is a great
opportunity specifically for IRAs. And so what typically happens is
someone will save throughout their working years in a 401
K or a 403 B, and then when they separate
from employment or service, they roll that 401 K or
(24:37):
403 B to an IRA, an individual retirement account, which
is not a taxable event. It stays in that tax
deferred environment. But once it gets into the IRA you
have two options in terms of how you get it out.
Option one is you take the withdrawal just like you
have been from your 403 B. That money comes directly
to you and that is taxable. It gets added to
(24:58):
your taxable income. The other option, which is not available
in the 403 B but it is available for the
IRA as long as you're 70.5. And that's a key.
You've got to be at least 70.5. Then you can
go directly from the IRA, your custodian, the person that
holds the IRA and sends you the statements, can send
it straight to your church as a qualified charitable distribution.
(25:22):
And when that happens and it doesn't come to you first,
it goes straight to the ministry. Uh, then you, uh,
do not pay tax on it. You don't get a deduction,
but it does not become taxable to you. So that's
the only way to get the money out of the
IRA without ever paying any tax on it, which would
be a wonderful for you. But it does involve two things.
Number one, you're going to have to roll that 4
(25:44):
or 3 b over to an IRA. And at that point,
you're probably going to need to get an advisor because
you no longer have just this small menu of investments
to pick from, like the 403 B, you can invest
in anything, which with more options gives you just more complexity. Um,
and then the second thing is you've got to get
it in the IRA. But the second thing is you
(26:04):
do have to be 70.5 in order to, to begin
to do the qualified charitable distribution. Does that make sense, though?
S4 (26:12):
Yes. Um, so I can do it even though I'm
not working anymore. I retire, I can transfer this to
an IRA.
S1 (26:23):
Yes, in most cases, you're required to be separated from service.
So you have to leave your company. And so typically
what happens is you work throughout your working years. You're
building up that 401 K and 403 B. And then
when you retire or you just move to another company,
as long as you've separated from that company, then you
can roll that 403 B out to an IRA. So
(26:45):
you could hire an advisor, and then he or she
would open an IRA for you, and then you'd roll
the money in. That does not create any taxable event.
And then from that IRA is where you can do
the qualified charitable distribution, where the withdrawals are not added
to your taxable income because they went straight to a ministry.
But you have to be 70.5 or older.
S4 (27:07):
Seven and a half. Okay.
S5 (27:09):
Okay. All right. Thank you so very much.
S1 (27:12):
You've been a joy to talk to, Maria. Thank you
for your call today. May the Lord bless you. Uh,
800 525 7000 Nobut is in Winter Haven. Go ahead.
S6 (27:21):
Yes. That's me. I got what happened to me. I
got the I got the last year. They gave me
$1 check. They are sending me $1 check this year again.
$1 check again. And I don't know why he. That's
a $1. I don't know what because I don't work
(27:44):
I'm working. And I was in Atlanta, Georgia I worked
since 19 since 1991. That's why I stopped work. I
can't work because I was oh, I was I was
not working. I was very sick. And I come because
(28:05):
I can't work. They, they I was mugged in a
hospital in Atlanta. And because I can walk. That's why.
That's why I'm coming back in Florida. I'm coming. I
moved here in 2007, and since I don't know where,
I stopped working since 1991.
S1 (28:28):
Yeah.
S6 (28:30):
I was getting a, I got I was not paying
tax because I got the a, they sent me a contact.
They will give me a contact and I work with
the I work with my wife, I work with my
my daughter and my son I was with I got
three people. I got three people with behind me, I
(28:53):
with me. They don't work with me. I just use
them independent because that's why for my is for income tax.
S1 (29:03):
Yeah. Well here's what I would do. And I can
understand why this would be confusing because it seems odd
that you'd get a $1 check from the IRS. a
couple of things. I mean, they do send checks that small. Uh,
basically that usually means that they've recalculated something on a
past return, maybe a credit or a rounding error, error, error,
(29:23):
or a small adjustment to a withholding, and you ended
up slightly overpaying. And they're just, you know, sending you
the overpayment and they're very precise about that. Um, I
would keep a copy of that for your tax records. Uh,
it also could be interest payments for delayed or corrected refund.
They do pay interest if it takes longer than a
(29:44):
set time to issue a refund. But if you have
any kind of concern about this being a scam of
any kind, I would just call the IRS, get them
on the phone, let them know that what you've received,
there should be some accompanying paperwork, and you should be
able to just verify that that this is legitimate. But, uh,
I think as as long as there's a check made
out to you and you're not giving any information over
(30:05):
the phone or, you know, clicking on any links or,
you know, having to call somebody or anything like that.
If it's just a check from the IRS with official documentation,
you know, you deposit it, you don't think anything more
about it. But again, if you want more information on
it or it looks suspicious, I would just give the
IRS a call and they should be able to explain
to you exactly what it is. All the best to you.
(30:28):
Nobut call anytime. We appreciate you being on the broadcast today.
God bless you. Well, 800 525 7000 is the number
to call. Coming up in our next segment, Bob Dole
stops by. Plus some great news to share with you
about heart for Lebanon. Yep. So many of you last
week supported this great ministry that we shined a spotlight on.
(30:48):
We'll give you an update on that straight ahead. Stay
with us. Great to have you with us today on
faith and finance. Live well lot going on in the markets,
a lot going on with oil as a result of
the strikes on the Iranian nuclear facilities over the weekend.
(31:10):
And then a response today by Iran. Although the word
that's coming out from the white House is that Iran
gave the U.S. advance notice of this missile attack in
Qatar and that as a result, no injuries whatsoever. And
perhaps this was the needed response, at least in this.
(31:31):
But if in fact it's contained well, the market like
that oil liked it. Let's get Bob's take on all
of it. Bob Dole is our market expert. He joins
us each Monday with his insights and commentary. He's the
CEO of Crossmark Global Investments, a leader in faith based investing.
And Bob, I guess the markets and oil are liking
what they see, huh?
S7 (31:51):
For sure. For the very reason you said, when your
enemy tells you they're going to attack and then does
it in a mild way, you kind of smile behind
your ears, as it were. Uh, this could be the
beginning of the end of the hostilities. Uh, this is
often the way these things end. Let's hope that's the case, Rob.
And as you and I know this is all about
(32:13):
for the markets, the price of oil. And as oil
came down after the weekend rise in oil prices, markets
loved it. And a lot of green on the screen.
S5 (32:23):
Yeah.
S1 (32:23):
Give us some context for where we are. I mean
at $67 a barrel, how does that stack up with
just longer term averages.
S7 (32:31):
Well 67 we're we're down from, as you know, mid
70s um, over, over the weekend. And uh, that's up
from roughly 60 where it hung out for some time.
So call it 10% above where we've been. Rob. That's
not much of a premium. Um, the world can live
with $67 oil.
S1 (32:50):
Yeah. Very good. Bob, what about just the rest of
the market? As you look out over just all the
different factors, whether that's earnings or. I know we've got
some manufacturing data that wasn't particularly exciting. Uh, retail sales,
the labor markets. Give us your assessment.
S7 (33:06):
Yeah. Assume that, uh, um, oil continues to fade and
tariffs as well. It will boil down to economic growth.
And as you just pointed out last week we had
retail sales disappointing manufacturing data worsening economy slowing. And the
market's going to have to deal with how slow is slow.
If it's just a mild slowdown market's probably okay. But
(33:29):
if the unemployment rate starts to move higher and confidence
in spending, um continue their recent decline, um, then we
could have a sloppy market. As you and I know,
the market at over 22 times earnings is discounting. Pretty
good news. And the news is good. But is it
pretty good? Only time will tell.
S5 (33:51):
Yeah.
S1 (33:52):
Fed Chairman Powell on Capitol Hill this week Bob how
important is that. What are folks going to be looking for.
S7 (33:57):
I think they're going to be listening to his how
to balance both ends of the the fed obligations. That is, uh,
is inflation slowing enough for them to consider lowering rates
or is unemployment threatening to rise and causing the same,
or is it the opposite set of situations? Most people
(34:20):
lean toward the Fed's going to lower rates a couple
times this year. That's what the futures curve tell us. Um,
let's see what happens from here. Uh, our concern is
if inflation stays closer to three than two, that makes
it tough for the fed.
S5 (34:33):
Yeah.
S1 (34:34):
Bob. Inflation. You know obviously we saw an upward adjustment
I guess on the Fed's expectations there. Um, how significant
is that?
S7 (34:44):
Uh, in my view it is significant. Uh, the fed
for listeners raised their inflation estimate for calendar 2025 from
2.7 to 3%, while simultaneously lowering their estimate for GDP
growth this year from 1.7 Point 7 to 1.4. So
when growth estimates go down and inflation estimates go up,
(35:07):
it's not a good combination.
S5 (35:08):
Yeah.
S1 (35:09):
If in fact we are going to get rate cuts,
perhaps as many as two this year and perhaps starting
as soon as July. Given what you just said about
the fed raising their expectations on inflation, if they move
to start cutting, does that mean they're kind of crying
uncle on ever getting to 2% their original target?
S7 (35:28):
That's a great question. Um, the fed obviously with both mandates,
has to make a decision which one to favor. And
my guess is if employment begins to flag a bit
and the unemployment rate starts to go up, uh, they'll
lean toward fighting that weakness as opposed to worrying about, uh,
lassoing inflation any more than they already have. And they'll
(35:50):
just look the other way when it comes to inflation.
They're between a rock and a hard place. What it
boils down to Rob.
S1 (35:55):
Yeah, it's going to be interesting to to see the
comments coming out this week. All right, Bob, we thank
you for your time, as always, sir.
S7 (36:02):
Have a great week.
S1 (36:03):
All right. That's Bob Dahl. He's CEO and chief investment
officer at Crossmark Global Investments. You can receive a copy
of his weekly investment commentary, as I do, by signing up.
There's no cost to do it. Just go to Crossmark global.com.
All right. Let's head back to the phones today. Uh
let's see. Tampa, Florida. Prudencia. Thank you for calling. How
can I serve you?
S8 (36:25):
Yes. Rob, thank you so much for picking up my call. Yes, ma'am.
The question I have is, um, my mom passed last
year and left me with a property which has legally
been transferred under my name, but she has. She still had, like, um,
180,000 on the mortgage. And the mortgage is with VA,
(36:49):
which is, uh, cannot is not assumable. So my goal
was to like, keep the property. So they told me.
The mortgage people told me if I want to transfer
it under my name, I have to refinance the mortgage
and cost me. Interest rate she had was 2.5 and
(37:09):
the current interest rate is 6.2. So I was calling
to find out in a situation like this, how do
I handle it?
S5 (37:17):
Yes.
S1 (37:18):
Very good. Well, I know this is a difficult. And
I'm sorry to hear about your mom's passing. Um, you know,
when an when a home is inherited and has a
non-transferable and in this case, VA loan, you can certainly
inherit it. You just can't retain the loan, especially if
you're in a qualified VA borrower. And so that's why
(37:38):
they're asking you to refinance. The original VA loan technically
ends with your mom's passing. And unfortunately rates are now
much higher. And so if you had the option you'd
want to hang on to that much lower rate. Unfortunately,
it sounds like you do not. Um, so your only
options at this point would be. First of all, you
can try to buy some time with the lender. They
(38:01):
should offer you a grace period or allow you to
pay make payments temporarily during probate while you explore your options.
Because assumption is not an option. Assuming the loan, you
really only have two choices. You can refinance it into
a conventional loan, and you're right, you're going to increase
that rate by three times. Um, with today's rates, uh,
(38:24):
or two sell the home. If refinancing isn't affordable, that
may be the better option, especially if there's equity. I
realize that's, you know, not ideal, but unfortunately with a
non assumable loan like you have here, it really is
the only options.
S8 (38:40):
So what are the tax implications if I do any
remodeling in the house am I going to get any
refund for remodeling anything like that.
S1 (38:50):
Well how long ago did you inherit it.
S8 (38:53):
Last year.
S1 (38:54):
Okay, so you really don't have any taxes? I mean, uh,
the inheritance isn't taxable. There's no federal inheritance tax. Any
any estate tax would have been paid by your mom's estate.
But right now, the estate taxes don't kick in until
over $13 million. So you inherited the home without tax,
and then you don't have any capital gains tax when
(39:16):
you sell it. Uh, if you sell it in a
relatively short period of time because you enjoy by way
of the inheritance, what's called a stepped up basis. So
your mom's purchase price no longer applies. The basis which
determines if there's capital gains has now been stepped up
to the market value as of the date of her death. Now,
(39:36):
if the home is increased over the last 12 months
since she passed away, then you would pay capital gains
on that amount of increase from the date of death
to the date of the sale. But the housing market
has not done a whole lot in the last year.
And so you may be able to make a case,
you know, with a professional, like a broker's price opinion
(39:57):
or an appraisal that there really isn't any increase, um,
that you need to be worried about. But any improvements
you've made since receiving it would absolutely, you know, be
applied against any increase you had just in the last
12 months. But again, just to be clear, we're not
having to go back to your mom's original purchase price
by way of the inheritance. You got that step up
(40:20):
in basis to the market value as of the date
of her death. So that's the the cost basis we're
working with. And if you're, you know, if somebody said, well,
it's appreciated 6% over the last year, well that would
be the only thing you'd be responsible for in any
improvements to the property would offset that. Do you follow.
S8 (40:39):
Yes yes, yes.
S1 (40:41):
Okay. So so there shouldn't be much of a tax
issue there. So it sounds like the better option if
if you don't want to hang on to this to
move into it or you're not going to turn it
into a rental, or you're going to have challenges financially
to try to keep it at the higher interest rate
than I would go ahead and sell it. Thank you
for your call today. Quickly to Illinois. Kathy, I've got
(41:01):
just a minute left. Go ahead.
S9 (41:03):
Hi. I was just wondering what the difference was between
a capital of Certified Kingdom advisor and a fiduciary are.
S1 (41:12):
Yeah, very different in the sense that some Sikhs are fiduciaries.
Others would not be, most would be. So it would
be a very appropriate question. Let me bring a definition
of both. A fiduciary is someone who's legally and ethically
required to act in your best interest. So in the
financial world, that means they have to give the advice
(41:32):
that's the best for you, even if it means less
money for them. They're held to a higher standard than
someone who just has to recommend something in this financial
world that's known as suitable. So think of it like this.
They sit on your side of the table helping you
make decisions that serve your goals, and they can't sell
a product that's going to make them more money. Um,
(41:55):
so it's a good idea to ask, are you a fiduciary? Again,
fiduciary is not a requirement. Uh, a is a designation
kind of like CPA or CFP, but it's the only
designation in the financial services world for those advisors that
have been trained to bring you advice that aligns with
a biblical worldview. And so they've done a pastor reference
(42:16):
and client reference and statement of faith, and a code
of ethics and a whole host of things that allow
us to have confidence that they're going to serve you
around biblical financial advice. So two different things, but it'd
be very appropriate as you interview to ask, are you
a fiduciary? And that's what that means. Thanks for your
call today, Faith that finance is a partnership between Moody
(42:37):
Radio and Faith five. Thank you to Omar, Rihanna, Lisa
and Jim. Hey, and thanks for meeting our goal to
help our team at Hartford Lebanon. We're over 600. We'll
see you tomorrow.
For everything. There is a season and a time for
every matter under heaven. Ecclesiastes three one. Hi, I'm Rob West.
God has designed life to unfold in seasons, and with
each one comes new challenges, opportunities, and sometimes new finish lines. Today,
Cody Hobelman joins us to talk about why it's not
only okay to adjust your financial finish line, it's often
(00:31):
the wise and faithful thing to do. And then it's
on to your calls at 800, 500, 25, 7000. That's 805, two, five, 7000.
This is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your
financial journey. Well, we're glad to welcome Cody Hobelman back
to the program. He's a certified financial planner and a
(00:51):
certified Kingdom advisor and as of last month, now serving
as a wealth advisor at Wealth Squared alongside our friend
Rachel McDonough Cody is also a trusted contributor to our
quarterly publication, Faithful Steward and Cody, it is great to
have you back with us.
S2 (01:07):
Thanks, Rob. It's great to be here again.
S1 (01:09):
Cody, before we dive into your latest article for Faithful
Steward Magazine, I'd love to have our audience hear about
your experience as a Certified Kingdom Advisor. Would you take
a moment and just share what you think makes a
different from a typical financial advisor?
S2 (01:25):
Absolutely. I think the exam and curriculum was one of
the most impactful that I have ever taken personally. The
thing that sets the CCA apart from another financial advisor
is the acknowledgement that Scripture is our source of wisdom
for life, but specifically our finances as well. And CCAs
(01:48):
have a commitment to communicating truth, not just the expertise
that we gained through practice.
S1 (01:54):
Um, yeah. Well, I appreciate that. I think that really
says it very, very well. And I think the differentiator
is around the kinds of conversations the CAA has with
his or her client. And this topic today of finish lines,
I think, is right in the bull's eye of the
types of different conversations you and others are having. I'd
(02:14):
love to dive into that. You've been exploring the idea
of financial finish lines, beginning with the concept of a
lifestyle finish line, but in your latest Faithful Steward article, Cody,
you had an article called A Spending Finish Line is
just the beginning, where you make the point that your
first finish line doesn't have to be your last. Talk
(02:34):
about why that's an important perspective for people to understand.
S2 (02:38):
Yeah, I think the idea of setting a finish line
can feel very final, and there's a pressure to get
it exactly right. But over the years, we've learned that
it's not necessary to get it exactly right. It's more
important that we're growing in our journey. And so I
like to remind folks that this is a way that
we can set our first finish line, and through practice,
(02:59):
we're going to refine it. And over time, we're going
to learn how to actually live life with a finish
line appropriately. In fact, there's probably situations where we should
consider adjusting our finish line through our time.
S1 (03:10):
Yeah, and let's dive into that a bit. When should
someone consider revisiting or adjusting their lifestyle finish line?
S2 (03:17):
I think it's healthy, just like a financial plan to
take a look at our financial finish line annually, because
a lot can change in a year, but certainly when
there are big changes in our lives, maybe it's a
new person that we're financially responsible for, or a person
that we're no longer financially responsible for. It could be
moving to a different geography, where the cost of living
(03:38):
is dramatically different, or just major events in life, like
changes to our health. These all could change what it
costs to maintain the same lifestyle, and would be triggers
that would cause us to take a second look at
our financial finish lines.
S1 (03:53):
Yeah. Now, as a part of this, we're going to
dig into some of the mechanics of what it looks
like to set a lifestyle finish line, and how you
can determine what is truly enough for retirement. And what
about some of the unknowns in your life? We'll get
into all of that. But before we head to this
first break, Cody, I'd love for you just to describe
and the work you've done at Finish Line. Just some
(04:15):
of the fruit, the benefits that come by capping your
lifestyle and setting that finish line even in your own
spiritual journey.
S2 (04:23):
Yeah, I'd love to. I think the idea when we
talk about limits or caps, it sounds like a restriction.
But what I've actually found is this is actually a
way that we can gain freedom. And this is a
biblical principle in other areas of life. It's just a
tool that we can use to apply and how we
manage our financial resources. And so through setting a financial
(04:44):
finish line, what I've actually found is contentment, peace and
purpose in my own life.
S1 (04:51):
It's so good. Well, folks, if you want to learn
more about what Cody's doing, head to finish line pledge.com,
that's finish line pledge.com. We're going to take a quick break.
When we come back much more with Cody. We'll get
into some of the mechanics of how you should think
about a finish line, when you should adjust it, and
how you get started. We're talking with Cody Hobelman today.
(05:12):
He's a wealth advisor at Wealth Squared. His article appears
in the latest edition of Faithful Steward. If you'd like
to learn how you can get a copy, go to afi.com.
We'll be right back. Great to have you with us
(05:34):
today on Faith and Finance live. I'm Rob West with
me today. My friend Cody Hoberman, certified Kingdom advisor and
certified financial planner. He's a wealth advisor at Wealth Squared.
He's also a frequent contributor here at Faith Fi, and
in our recent edition of our Faithful Steward magazine, He
had a really powerful article on changing your financial finish line.
(05:55):
Now you may say, what is a finish line? So, Cody,
before we get into some of the finer points of this,
just give us a simple definition. What is a financial
finish line?
S2 (06:05):
A financial finish line is simply an answer to the
question how much is enough? It helps us separate between
what we intend to consume for our own use, and
what we choose to make available for investing in God's kingdom.
S1 (06:18):
Yeah, that's so helpful. Now, I know you emphasized that
a lifestyle finish line and let's just describe the two.
We can have a lifestyle or a spending finish line
and that's important. We can also have an accumulation finish
line that really is about our balance sheet or our
net worth. But that lifestyle finish line is just one
piece of the broader financial picture. So how does it
(06:40):
go beyond just saving and preparing for retirement?
S2 (06:44):
Yeah, I think the lifestyle and the net worth or
accumulation finish line can actually be related to each other.
We can think about the ways that we use money
as divided into four categories. First is personal spending. This
is what we're going to use for our own lifestyle
in the next month or the next year. For example.
Second bucket is planning ahead for the future. These are
(07:07):
things that we're going to spend on our lifestyle in
the future. Next is taxes. We don't have to go
into detail on that. We're all familiar and the last
is building God's kingdom. This is the portion that we've
decided in advance we're not going to use on ourselves.
And so the lifestyle finish line helps us understand what's
an appropriate amount to spend on ourselves and our lifestyle.
(07:28):
And this can help us inform the way that we
do retirement planning, how much we save for the future
and how much we invest.
S1 (07:36):
Yeah, that's exactly right, because that lifestyle finish line really
drives the other finish line, which is how much you're
ultimately going to need for a net worth finish line.
So let's unpack that a bit. Explain a Splaying a
net worth finish line, what it entails and how it works.
S2 (07:51):
A net worth finish line is is really an amount
that we think is appropriate to accumulate throughout our lifetime.
So this is a number that we can arrive at
through financial planning. But at its core, this concept really
comes from Luke 12 and the parable of the bigger barns,
where the wealthy farmer accumulated far more than he ever needed,
(08:12):
which created wastefulness and missed opportunities for his life. And
so he expected to have a long life where he
could mobilize all these resources and a number of ways.
But he wasn't promised that.
S1 (08:24):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And you really highlight three areas
of what you might think of as spiritual wrestling that
play a key role in identifying that finish line. So
I'd love for you to just walk through those.
S2 (08:37):
Absolutely. The first area is the lifestyle finish line. This
is how much our lifestyle costs right now. And so
we can think of that again in an annual amount
or even in a monthly amount. Once we have an
idea of how much we're going to spend that can
help us plan for the future. The second area is
wealth transfer. We will not live forever, and some day
(08:59):
somebody else will steward the resources that we are currently stewarding,
and so we can think and plan ahead for how
much is appropriate to pass on to our heirs or
to the next stewards. And finally, is the conservative margin,
because we don't know what will happen in the future.
Life throws curveballs at us all the time, so it
(09:20):
may be wise to have a conservative margin. But there's
a limit to how much we can actually rely on
money as compared to God.
S1 (09:28):
Yeah, and that makes so much sense. I mean, when
you have these three pieces that you just outlined, Cody,
you know what your lifestyle finish line is, and you
can run a math equation to determine how much you
need to maintain that over the rest of your life,
and then how much you want to leave to heirs,
which is your wealth transfer finish line and then that
conservative margin for uncertainty. You can really back into a number.
(09:50):
Now we don't want to make it all about financial mechanics.
So you want to take that alongside your advisor hopefully
who understands these ideas but make it a matter of
prayer to ultimately arrive at that number. And then as
it relates to our conversation today, it can and does
often change over time. Cody though, when we find ourselves
(10:10):
going beyond our finish lines, maybe over accumulating, you suggest
that there's an essential question we should be asking ourselves
what is it?
S2 (10:20):
I do think it's important to step back and ask ourselves,
why am I holding on to these resources in the
first place? I think when we run through the filter
of our Ephesians 210 purpose, the good works that God
has set in advance for us, it can help to
inform how we use resources today.
S1 (10:39):
Yeah, I think that's well said. Now, when it comes
to the finish line. You really emphasize that we should
be continuing to give, even though we haven't reached that
finish line. And I'd love for you to talk about
the wrestling that goes into that idea.
S2 (10:54):
A finish line is really a tool designed to help
you prioritize generosity in how you manage resources. And so
setting a finish line that might be more than you're
currently earning, it may not feel like you have enough today.
This was certainly the case in my story, but I
wanted to prioritize generosity today, even when it didn't feel
(11:15):
like I had enough. So I recommend that you continue giving,
whether that's a percentage of your income or you set
a giving goal, which is a dollar amount, over a
period of time, to actually build the habit of giving
even before you've reached your finish line. And this helps
you prepare for the future. If God decides to give
(11:37):
an increase in the form of financial resources.
S1 (11:40):
Yeah, And that helps us fight against this idea that
that increase in standard of living shouldn't be in the
way of increasing our standard of living, which should be
the big idea. All right. So now, Cody, some listeners
might still feel unsure about where to begin. I mean,
they hear this idea. It sounds actually really exciting, something
(12:00):
they'd like to lean into. Can you offer a practical
next step on where they should start?
S2 (12:06):
Yeah, I think an easy next step is to just
try it for a period of 90 days. I've heard
multiple stories and this is actually my introduction to financial
finish lines. I decided to set a finish line for
three months and see what I learned, and it honestly
was transformational almost overnight. And it's been five years since
that moment.
S1 (12:25):
Mhm. Yeah that's powerful. And I know the implications are
financial because if you set that finish line you'll actually
have more money that you can give away. But there
are spiritual implications to this as well. What does that
look like in your life.
S2 (12:39):
A financial finish line really trained me to acknowledge God
first in stewardship decisions. And so in order to set
a finish line, we must recognize that all of the
resources that have been entrusted to us do truly belong
to God. And so it reorients us on how to
steward his resources, rather than trying to understand how much
(13:00):
of our resources we need to give to God. And
it makes me think of Second Corinthians chapter nine, where
Paul writes to the church in Corinth, you will be
enriched in every way so that you can be generous
on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result
in thanksgiving to God. So there is a financial aspect
to this conversation, but really, we are designed to be
(13:21):
worshipers of our king, and this is one way that
we can enter into that worship.
S1 (13:27):
Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, we're about out of time here.
Just about 30s left. What's one key takeaway you can
leave our listeners with today?
S2 (13:34):
The thing I'd like to leave with listeners is to
try to take that next step. It doesn't have to
be final. It doesn't have to be set in stone
for the rest of your life. But there is a
next step for you on your journey of growth as
a steward.
S1 (13:49):
Yeah, well, folks, if you want to learn more, we'd
love for you to check out Finish Line Pledge. Com.
You can also make sure that you receive every issue
of Faithful Steward when you become a faith fi partner.
When you give $35 a month or $400 a year,
just go to faith. Com. Cody, thanks for being with us.
S2 (14:08):
Thanks, Rob. Always great to be here.
S1 (14:09):
That's Cody Holman, he's certified financial planner and certified Kingdom advisor,
also wealth advisor at Wealth Squared. A quick break and
back with your questions. Call right now 800 525 7000.
Stick around.
S3 (14:30):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:53):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live here on Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. We're
about to take your calls and questions here in just
a moment. That number 800 525 7000. We've got lines open.
The calls are coming in, but we've got room for you.
800 525 7000. Uh, coming up in our final segment today,
(15:14):
Bob Dole will stop by. We'll look forward to getting
his take on the markets, the market shrugging off not
only the attack on the nuclear facilities of Iran over
the weekend, but a counterattack today in Qatar as Iran
struck back at in the direction of at least some U.S. bases. Now,
(15:37):
President Trump out late this afternoon saying that Iran gave
the U.S. advance notice of the missile attack and that
resulted in no loss of life, not even any injuries,
at least in the reporting coming out. The market liking that,
reacting positively with the Dow Jones closing up nearly 1%
today 375 points. The S&P 500 up 60 points, almost 1%
(16:01):
there as well. And the Nasdaq about the same up 1%
183 points. Oil is the big story and oil is down.
You know it spiked over the weekend. Then it settled down.
And now we're seeing oil off 7% after this Iranian
strike on the US base that left no reported casualties.
(16:24):
So the market feeling like perhaps we're not going to
see any escalation, that this was a needed response. At
least Iran felt so on the part of Iran, but
it was one that was, uh, very tame to say
the least, just given the advance notice and the fact
that there were no injuries, if that in fact proves
to be true, then, uh, if this is what it's
(16:45):
limited to, the market reacting very positively. We'll get Bob
Dole's take on this in our final segment today. But
in the meantime, we want to get to your calls
and questions with whatever's on your mind. Again, that number
800 525 7000. So let's dive in. Today. Bakersfield, California
is where we'll begin. Maria. Go right ahead.
S4 (17:05):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Thank you. I'm
going to give you the context of my dilemma. I
worked for 28 years, and I almost never paid my
tithing maybe 3 or 4 times in my life. But
after retiring in 2020, I had a transformation. So now
I think differently. And in May 2020, I started to
(17:27):
pay tithing. Um, but I was so convicted that I
wanted to pay. This time I was very cheerful and
I decided to pay. Since my years in college when
I was working as a tutor, and so far I
have paid from the years 1992 to 2012. And at
(17:49):
the beginning it was easy because, um, I was making
less money. But towards the end, now that I'm in
the year in midway on the year 2012 is like
before I could pay, um, one year in three months,
but now it takes me longer. And I remember, I
(18:10):
recall something that you mentioned that if we paid, um,
to charity, that there was not going to be taxes
incurred on that. And I thought, if that is the case,
maybe for my 400 freebie, I can take that whole
amount that I owe and pay it to the church,
but I don't know if I think I probably misunderstood
(18:32):
and I just wanted clarification on that.
S5 (18:35):
Well, I'd be and they.
S4 (18:38):
Said no, we can only give it directly to you
or to your bank account, but not to a charity.
S1 (18:43):
Yes, they are correct. I will tell you though, what
I was referring to, and we can talk about how
that may or may not apply to your situation. But
let me back up just for a second, because I
love that you're really out of a strong conviction wanting
to honor the Lord in your giving. And I think
that's fabulous. But let me just understand kind of how
you're doing it. So are you going back and you're
treating each year from the day you started moving forward,
(19:08):
as if you made the amount you made 30 years
ago and you looked at the income from each year,
and then your goal for that year is the the
equivalent tithe. Is that right?
S4 (19:19):
No. I go month by month.
S5 (19:22):
Okay.
S4 (19:23):
Like for um, like let's see. I have a notebook.
And the notebook, like the last time that I play
was this June the 1st. And, um, I was able
to pay for only three months, and that was a
(19:44):
total of 20,000. And it turns out to be with
offering is like 2800. And that's the average 2500. And
I have my pension, my house is paid, the car
is paid, and I have my emergency fund. And so
I thought, I'm I'm happy to do this more than
(20:06):
happy because it's just I don't know. I knew better,
but I never did.
S5 (20:10):
Yes.
S4 (20:11):
And now it's different.
S5 (20:13):
Well, here's.
S1 (20:14):
What I would say to that. And I want to
be very careful, because I love that you want to
honor the Lord and that you have a conviction around this.
And I think ultimately this is between you and the Lord.
I will say, though, that I believe biblical generosity is
really more than rules or percentages. And I want you.
I guess my heart is that you don't get caught
up in trying to quote, pay God back up. You know,
(20:36):
what he wants is a fully surrendered life of godliness,
which I think clearly can honor the Old Testament tithe.
But it goes far beyond that. You know, the New
Testament teaches that our giving is to be a response
to God's grace. It's to be given freely, not legalistically,
not under compulsion. It's to be joyfully given. I certainly
(20:57):
hear joy in your voice. It's to be given consistently.
We see that in the New Testament, and I would
say proportional to our financial status. And so there's there's
that aspect as well. And I'm hearing that also, and
I think it should be directed to causes that honor God.
And we see those in in Scripture. So I think
we can leave behind a simplistic picture of the tithe
(21:18):
that may be uncomfortable to some or legalistic to others,
but our prayer is that that inspires us toward biblical
stewardship and really a deeper, more holistic approach, because ultimately
our calling is to abide in Christ and to lead
a life of, I think, radical generosity that reflects his
(21:40):
justice and mercy and and faithfulness. And that's a lot harder.
But it's a grander adventure, I think. But I just
wanted to share that with you. I'm so encouraged by
what you've shared. I'll get into the details of how
to give right after this break. Stay there. We'll be
right back. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and
(22:01):
Finance Live here on Moody Radio. Before the break, we
were talking to Maria in Bakersfield, California. She's 68. She
worked for 28 years. She never tithed. But after she's
moved into retirement, she started to tithe. And she's delighted
that she's able to give as unto the Lord in
this way. She's already sent over $20,000 to her church,
(22:22):
and she's wondering about ways to do that that are
more tax efficient. But Maria, we'll get into that here
in a second. I want to give you a chance
to respond. I think the thing I was wanting to
communicate to you is I love your generous heart. I
love that you're wanting to honor the Lord. I'm hearing
joy in your voice. In doing that. I just want
to be, you know, clear. To say, though, that I
think carefully calculating our giving is good, but I want
(22:45):
to focus on this larger calling to abide in Christ
and to give faithfully as an overflow of our gratitude
to God for his grace that he's extended us. Not
because you feel like God is upset or you haven't
done enough, or you know, you feel like you have
to check a box. Does that make sense, though?
S4 (23:04):
Yes. Perfect sense. I have thought about that. Very much so.
And I also thought, remember what Sister White said, that
in the end, a lot of people are going to
give less huge amounts of money, right? Yeah. And but
in my case, I'm thinking all these things that were
not done. And, um, I want to give as much
(23:25):
as I can now, but now it doesn't bother me.
It's just. I'm fine. But before, I was never a happy,
cheerful giver. And I never gave. But this time it
doesn't matter. And now I understand that writing that she
did in there, you know, because I never felt that.
S5 (23:43):
So yes.
S4 (23:43):
Now that's my situation, but I. And that's why I
wanted to find another way where I can pay the
whole amount, whatever is the rest, which I still don't
know because I haven't added everything.
S1 (23:55):
Yes, well, I've never met an unhappy, generous person. So
clearly I think we were hard wired for giving. We
were creating the in the image of the ultimate giver.
We've got to be careful that we're not giving to
get in return or anything like that. But I think
clearly as Christ followers, we should be generous people. Now,
when it comes to giving in a tax efficient way,
(24:16):
what you were probably hearing me refer to is something
called a qualified charitable distribution. And it is a great
opportunity specifically for IRAs. And so what typically happens is
someone will save throughout their working years in a 401
K or a 403 B, and then when they separate
from employment or service, they roll that 401 K or
(24:37):
403 B to an IRA, an individual retirement account, which
is not a taxable event. It stays in that tax
deferred environment. But once it gets into the IRA you
have two options in terms of how you get it out.
Option one is you take the withdrawal just like you
have been from your 403 B. That money comes directly
to you and that is taxable. It gets added to
(24:58):
your taxable income. The other option, which is not available
in the 403 B but it is available for the
IRA as long as you're 70.5. And that's a key.
You've got to be at least 70.5. Then you can
go directly from the IRA, your custodian, the person that
holds the IRA and sends you the statements, can send
it straight to your church as a qualified charitable distribution.
(25:22):
And when that happens and it doesn't come to you first,
it goes straight to the ministry. Uh, then you, uh,
do not pay tax on it. You don't get a deduction,
but it does not become taxable to you. So that's
the only way to get the money out of the
IRA without ever paying any tax on it, which would
be a wonderful for you. But it does involve two things.
Number one, you're going to have to roll that 4
(25:44):
or 3 b over to an IRA. And at that point,
you're probably going to need to get an advisor because
you no longer have just this small menu of investments
to pick from, like the 403 B, you can invest
in anything, which with more options gives you just more complexity. Um,
and then the second thing is you've got to get
it in the IRA. But the second thing is you
(26:04):
do have to be 70.5 in order to, to begin
to do the qualified charitable distribution. Does that make sense, though?
S4 (26:12):
Yes. Um, so I can do it even though I'm
not working anymore. I retire, I can transfer this to
an IRA.
S1 (26:23):
Yes, in most cases, you're required to be separated from service.
So you have to leave your company. And so typically
what happens is you work throughout your working years. You're
building up that 401 K and 403 B. And then
when you retire or you just move to another company,
as long as you've separated from that company, then you
can roll that 403 B out to an IRA. So
(26:45):
you could hire an advisor, and then he or she
would open an IRA for you, and then you'd roll
the money in. That does not create any taxable event.
And then from that IRA is where you can do
the qualified charitable distribution, where the withdrawals are not added
to your taxable income because they went straight to a ministry.
But you have to be 70.5 or older.
S4 (27:07):
Seven and a half. Okay.
S5 (27:09):
Okay. All right. Thank you so very much.
S1 (27:12):
You've been a joy to talk to, Maria. Thank you
for your call today. May the Lord bless you. Uh,
800 525 7000 Nobut is in Winter Haven. Go ahead.
S6 (27:21):
Yes. That's me. I got what happened to me. I
got the I got the last year. They gave me
$1 check. They are sending me $1 check this year again.
$1 check again. And I don't know why he. That's
a $1. I don't know what because I don't work
(27:44):
I'm working. And I was in Atlanta, Georgia I worked
since 19 since 1991. That's why I stopped work. I
can't work because I was oh, I was I was
not working. I was very sick. And I come because
(28:05):
I can't work. They, they I was mugged in a
hospital in Atlanta. And because I can walk. That's why.
That's why I'm coming back in Florida. I'm coming. I
moved here in 2007, and since I don't know where,
I stopped working since 1991.
S1 (28:28):
Yeah.
S6 (28:30):
I was getting a, I got I was not paying
tax because I got the a, they sent me a contact.
They will give me a contact and I work with
the I work with my wife, I work with my
my daughter and my son I was with I got
three people. I got three people with behind me, I
(28:53):
with me. They don't work with me. I just use
them independent because that's why for my is for income tax.
S1 (29:03):
Yeah. Well here's what I would do. And I can
understand why this would be confusing because it seems odd
that you'd get a $1 check from the IRS. a
couple of things. I mean, they do send checks that small. Uh,
basically that usually means that they've recalculated something on a
past return, maybe a credit or a rounding error, error, error,
(29:23):
or a small adjustment to a withholding, and you ended
up slightly overpaying. And they're just, you know, sending you
the overpayment and they're very precise about that. Um, I
would keep a copy of that for your tax records. Uh,
it also could be interest payments for delayed or corrected refund.
They do pay interest if it takes longer than a
(29:44):
set time to issue a refund. But if you have
any kind of concern about this being a scam of
any kind, I would just call the IRS, get them
on the phone, let them know that what you've received,
there should be some accompanying paperwork, and you should be
able to just verify that that this is legitimate. But, uh,
I think as as long as there's a check made
out to you and you're not giving any information over
(30:05):
the phone or, you know, clicking on any links or,
you know, having to call somebody or anything like that.
If it's just a check from the IRS with official documentation,
you know, you deposit it, you don't think anything more
about it. But again, if you want more information on
it or it looks suspicious, I would just give the
IRS a call and they should be able to explain
to you exactly what it is. All the best to you.
(30:28):
Nobut call anytime. We appreciate you being on the broadcast today.
God bless you. Well, 800 525 7000 is the number
to call. Coming up in our next segment, Bob Dole
stops by. Plus some great news to share with you
about heart for Lebanon. Yep. So many of you last
week supported this great ministry that we shined a spotlight on.
(30:48):
We'll give you an update on that straight ahead. Stay
with us. Great to have you with us today on
faith and finance. Live well lot going on in the markets,
a lot going on with oil as a result of
the strikes on the Iranian nuclear facilities over the weekend.
(31:10):
And then a response today by Iran. Although the word
that's coming out from the white House is that Iran
gave the U.S. advance notice of this missile attack in
Qatar and that as a result, no injuries whatsoever. And
perhaps this was the needed response, at least in this.
(31:31):
But if in fact it's contained well, the market like
that oil liked it. Let's get Bob's take on all
of it. Bob Dole is our market expert. He joins
us each Monday with his insights and commentary. He's the
CEO of Crossmark Global Investments, a leader in faith based investing.
And Bob, I guess the markets and oil are liking
what they see, huh?
S7 (31:51):
For sure. For the very reason you said, when your
enemy tells you they're going to attack and then does
it in a mild way, you kind of smile behind
your ears, as it were. Uh, this could be the
beginning of the end of the hostilities. Uh, this is
often the way these things end. Let's hope that's the case, Rob.
And as you and I know this is all about
(32:13):
for the markets, the price of oil. And as oil
came down after the weekend rise in oil prices, markets
loved it. And a lot of green on the screen.
S5 (32:23):
Yeah.
S1 (32:23):
Give us some context for where we are. I mean
at $67 a barrel, how does that stack up with
just longer term averages.
S7 (32:31):
Well 67 we're we're down from, as you know, mid
70s um, over, over the weekend. And uh, that's up
from roughly 60 where it hung out for some time.
So call it 10% above where we've been. Rob. That's
not much of a premium. Um, the world can live
with $67 oil.
S1 (32:50):
Yeah. Very good. Bob, what about just the rest of
the market? As you look out over just all the
different factors, whether that's earnings or. I know we've got
some manufacturing data that wasn't particularly exciting. Uh, retail sales,
the labor markets. Give us your assessment.
S7 (33:06):
Yeah. Assume that, uh, um, oil continues to fade and
tariffs as well. It will boil down to economic growth.
And as you just pointed out last week we had
retail sales disappointing manufacturing data worsening economy slowing. And the
market's going to have to deal with how slow is slow.
If it's just a mild slowdown market's probably okay. But
(33:29):
if the unemployment rate starts to move higher and confidence
in spending, um continue their recent decline, um, then we
could have a sloppy market. As you and I know,
the market at over 22 times earnings is discounting. Pretty
good news. And the news is good. But is it
pretty good? Only time will tell.
S5 (33:51):
Yeah.
S1 (33:52):
Fed Chairman Powell on Capitol Hill this week Bob how
important is that. What are folks going to be looking for.
S7 (33:57):
I think they're going to be listening to his how
to balance both ends of the the fed obligations. That is, uh,
is inflation slowing enough for them to consider lowering rates
or is unemployment threatening to rise and causing the same,
or is it the opposite set of situations? Most people
(34:20):
lean toward the Fed's going to lower rates a couple
times this year. That's what the futures curve tell us. Um,
let's see what happens from here. Uh, our concern is
if inflation stays closer to three than two, that makes
it tough for the fed.
S5 (34:33):
Yeah.
S1 (34:34):
Bob. Inflation. You know obviously we saw an upward adjustment
I guess on the Fed's expectations there. Um, how significant
is that?
S7 (34:44):
Uh, in my view it is significant. Uh, the fed
for listeners raised their inflation estimate for calendar 2025 from
2.7 to 3%, while simultaneously lowering their estimate for GDP
growth this year from 1.7 Point 7 to 1.4. So
when growth estimates go down and inflation estimates go up,
(35:07):
it's not a good combination.
S5 (35:08):
Yeah.
S1 (35:09):
If in fact we are going to get rate cuts,
perhaps as many as two this year and perhaps starting
as soon as July. Given what you just said about
the fed raising their expectations on inflation, if they move
to start cutting, does that mean they're kind of crying
uncle on ever getting to 2% their original target?
S7 (35:28):
That's a great question. Um, the fed obviously with both mandates,
has to make a decision which one to favor. And
my guess is if employment begins to flag a bit
and the unemployment rate starts to go up, uh, they'll
lean toward fighting that weakness as opposed to worrying about, uh,
lassoing inflation any more than they already have. And they'll
(35:50):
just look the other way when it comes to inflation.
They're between a rock and a hard place. What it
boils down to Rob.
S1 (35:55):
Yeah, it's going to be interesting to to see the
comments coming out this week. All right, Bob, we thank
you for your time, as always, sir.
S7 (36:02):
Have a great week.
S1 (36:03):
All right. That's Bob Dahl. He's CEO and chief investment
officer at Crossmark Global Investments. You can receive a copy
of his weekly investment commentary, as I do, by signing up.
There's no cost to do it. Just go to Crossmark global.com.
All right. Let's head back to the phones today. Uh
let's see. Tampa, Florida. Prudencia. Thank you for calling. How
can I serve you?
S8 (36:25):
Yes. Rob, thank you so much for picking up my call. Yes, ma'am.
The question I have is, um, my mom passed last
year and left me with a property which has legally
been transferred under my name, but she has. She still had, like, um,
180,000 on the mortgage. And the mortgage is with VA,
(36:49):
which is, uh, cannot is not assumable. So my goal
was to like, keep the property. So they told me.
The mortgage people told me if I want to transfer
it under my name, I have to refinance the mortgage
and cost me. Interest rate she had was 2.5 and
(37:09):
the current interest rate is 6.2. So I was calling
to find out in a situation like this, how do
I handle it?
S5 (37:17):
Yes.
S1 (37:18):
Very good. Well, I know this is a difficult. And
I'm sorry to hear about your mom's passing. Um, you know,
when an when a home is inherited and has a
non-transferable and in this case, VA loan, you can certainly
inherit it. You just can't retain the loan, especially if
you're in a qualified VA borrower. And so that's why
(37:38):
they're asking you to refinance. The original VA loan technically
ends with your mom's passing. And unfortunately rates are now
much higher. And so if you had the option you'd
want to hang on to that much lower rate. Unfortunately,
it sounds like you do not. Um, so your only
options at this point would be. First of all, you
can try to buy some time with the lender. They
(38:01):
should offer you a grace period or allow you to
pay make payments temporarily during probate while you explore your options.
Because assumption is not an option. Assuming the loan, you
really only have two choices. You can refinance it into
a conventional loan, and you're right, you're going to increase
that rate by three times. Um, with today's rates, uh,
(38:24):
or two sell the home. If refinancing isn't affordable, that
may be the better option, especially if there's equity. I
realize that's, you know, not ideal, but unfortunately with a
non assumable loan like you have here, it really is
the only options.
S8 (38:40):
So what are the tax implications if I do any
remodeling in the house am I going to get any
refund for remodeling anything like that.
S1 (38:50):
Well how long ago did you inherit it.
S8 (38:53):
Last year.
S1 (38:54):
Okay, so you really don't have any taxes? I mean, uh,
the inheritance isn't taxable. There's no federal inheritance tax. Any
any estate tax would have been paid by your mom's estate.
But right now, the estate taxes don't kick in until
over $13 million. So you inherited the home without tax,
and then you don't have any capital gains tax when
(39:16):
you sell it. Uh, if you sell it in a
relatively short period of time because you enjoy by way
of the inheritance, what's called a stepped up basis. So
your mom's purchase price no longer applies. The basis which
determines if there's capital gains has now been stepped up
to the market value as of the date of her death. Now,
(39:36):
if the home is increased over the last 12 months
since she passed away, then you would pay capital gains
on that amount of increase from the date of death
to the date of the sale. But the housing market
has not done a whole lot in the last year.
And so you may be able to make a case,
you know, with a professional, like a broker's price opinion
(39:57):
or an appraisal that there really isn't any increase, um,
that you need to be worried about. But any improvements
you've made since receiving it would absolutely, you know, be
applied against any increase you had just in the last
12 months. But again, just to be clear, we're not
having to go back to your mom's original purchase price
by way of the inheritance. You got that step up
(40:20):
in basis to the market value as of the date
of her death. So that's the the cost basis we're
working with. And if you're, you know, if somebody said, well,
it's appreciated 6% over the last year, well that would
be the only thing you'd be responsible for in any
improvements to the property would offset that. Do you follow.
S8 (40:39):
Yes yes, yes.
S1 (40:41):
Okay. So so there shouldn't be much of a tax
issue there. So it sounds like the better option if
if you don't want to hang on to this to
move into it or you're not going to turn it
into a rental, or you're going to have challenges financially
to try to keep it at the higher interest rate
than I would go ahead and sell it. Thank you
for your call today. Quickly to Illinois. Kathy, I've got
(41:01):
just a minute left. Go ahead.
S9 (41:03):
Hi. I was just wondering what the difference was between
a capital of Certified Kingdom advisor and a fiduciary are.
S1 (41:12):
Yeah, very different in the sense that some Sikhs are fiduciaries.
Others would not be, most would be. So it would
be a very appropriate question. Let me bring a definition
of both. A fiduciary is someone who's legally and ethically
required to act in your best interest. So in the
financial world, that means they have to give the advice
(41:32):
that's the best for you, even if it means less
money for them. They're held to a higher standard than
someone who just has to recommend something in this financial
world that's known as suitable. So think of it like this.
They sit on your side of the table helping you
make decisions that serve your goals, and they can't sell
a product that's going to make them more money. Um,
(41:55):
so it's a good idea to ask, are you a fiduciary? Again,
fiduciary is not a requirement. Uh, a is a designation
kind of like CPA or CFP, but it's the only
designation in the financial services world for those advisors that
have been trained to bring you advice that aligns with
a biblical worldview. And so they've done a pastor reference
(42:16):
and client reference and statement of faith, and a code
of ethics and a whole host of things that allow
us to have confidence that they're going to serve you
around biblical financial advice. So two different things, but it'd
be very appropriate as you interview to ask, are you
a fiduciary? And that's what that means. Thanks for your
call today, Faith that finance is a partnership between Moody
(42:37):
Radio and Faith five. Thank you to Omar, Rihanna, Lisa
and Jim. Hey, and thanks for meeting our goal to
help our team at Hartford Lebanon. We're over 600. We'll
see you tomorrow.
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