July 9, 2025 • 42 mins
“A faithful man will abound with blessings, but whoever hastens to be rich will not go unpunished.” - Proverbs 28:20. Powerball jackpots and scratch-off tickets might seem like a shortcut to financial freedom, but should Christians partake? On Faith & Finance Live, Rob West and Dr. David W. Jones return to our financial ethics series to help us think biblically about the lottery and whether it aligns with a life of faithful stewardship. Then, Rob responds to various financial questions. That’s Faith & Finance Live, where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances—weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:08):
A faithful man will abound with blessings, but whoever hastens
to be rich will not go unpunished. Proverbs 28, verse 20. Hi,
I'm Rob West. Powerball jackpot and scratch off tickets might
seem like a shortcut to financial freedom, but should Christians
be buying in? Doctor David W Jones returns to our
financial ethics series today to help us think biblically about
(00:31):
the lottery and whether it aligns with a life of
faithful stewardship. And then it's on to your calls at 800, 500, 25, 7000.
That's 805, two five 7000. This is faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, we're honored to
have Doctor David W Jones back with us again today.
(00:53):
He's a senior professor of Christian ethics at Southeastern Baptist
Theological Seminary and the author of Every Good Thing, which
explores wealth, stewardship, and poverty from a biblical worldview. David,
great to have you back with us.
S2 (01:06):
Thanks, Robert. It's good to be here.
S1 (01:07):
David, as you know, last week we explored the ethics
of giving to the homeless. And today we turn to
something that seems harmless to many but raises significant ethical concerns.
And that is playing the lottery. Of course, we've seen
over recent years that lottery jackpots have climbed past $1 billion,
and it's sparked conversation among believers. So I want to
(01:29):
begin with the big picture. What does God's Word teach
about the desire to get rich quickly? And how might
that inform the way Christians view the lottery?
S2 (01:38):
Yeah, it's so important, Rob, that we think in biblical
categories about poverty and wealth and a few verses that
come to mind in Proverbs 1311, Solomon wrote and said
that wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little
by little will increase it. And then the writer of
(01:58):
the book of Hebrews, Hebrews 13 five wrote, and he
warned us and said, keep your life free from the
love of money, and be content with that which you have.
For God has said, I will never leave you nor
forsake you. I think both these verses just they speak
to the idea of the importance of work and of contentment.
S1 (02:19):
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Now, the lottery often
markets itself as a way to dream big or change
your life. But I know you've written that financial choices
reveal what we treasure most. We talk about that a
lot on this program. So what might a Christian's participation
in the lottery, David, reveal about what's going on in
the heart?
S2 (02:39):
You know, it's important that we maybe make a distinction between,
you know, having a desire to materially flourish. I mean,
I think certainly, um, all of us would prefer, you know,
blessings over Cursings. And I certainly, um, we feel a
duty to provide materially for our families, and that could
(03:00):
be a good thing. But when that actually changes over
and becomes an idol and we start to lust after
material things, I think that shows that our our hearts
become off. And the best way to monitor what's in
our heart is by looking at our words and looking
at what our hands are doing. Proverbs 23 seven Solomon
(03:21):
taught that our actions reveal our hearts. He wrote, as
a man thinks in his heart, so is he. And
then later on, Christ. Probably with that proverb in mind,
in Matthew 1234, Christ taught that out of the abundance
of the heart, the mouth speaks. And so for those
who play the lottery and are trying to increase their
(03:44):
riches and change their life, and to dream big, it
oftentimes it might show a discontentment in the heart, maybe
an unhealthy fixation on wealth.
S1 (03:55):
Yeah, no doubt about it. Now, that leads to the
practice of someone who's considering playing the lottery, or maybe
does occasionally, and they might say, well, David, it's just
for fun. How would you respond to that? And is
there a line where playing the lottery crosses from entertainment
into something more spiritually harmful?
S2 (04:14):
Yeah, that's a great question, Rob. And I think it, um,
maybe we need to make a distinction here between, uh,
you know, somebody who, you know, say your uncle gets
you a scratch off ticket, you know, for your birthday,
you know, is it sinful, you know, to scratch it off,
you know, and see if you've, you know, you've won
$20 or not. I think that would be different from
somebody that has a, um, a habitual, uh, weekly gambling engagement. Uh,
(04:37):
and so maybe we could say that it might not
be inherently wrong, uh, you know, to play the lottery
on occasion. But, of course, just because something is permissible
doesn't mean that it's it's wise. And I think we
could certainly say that, you know, playing the lottery, gambling,
it's never turned anyone into a better person.
S1 (04:54):
Yeah, there's no doubt about that. And then there's the
whole issue and ethics behind. Do we want to be
involved in an industry that's harming so many people, whether
it's for our entertainment or not? We'll continue to unpack
this with David W Jones just around the corner. Should
Christians play the lottery? Much more on that straight ahead
following this interview. Your questions today at 800 525 7000.
(05:18):
Stay with us. We'll be right back. Great to have
you with us today on Faith and Finance live. We're
in the midst of a financial ethics series. We're talking
(05:40):
today specifically about should Christians play the lottery? We're joined
by Doctor David W Jones. He's back with us again today.
He's senior professor of Christian Ethics at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.
He's also the author of Every Good Thing, which explores wealth, stewardship,
and poverty from a biblical perspective. I'd highly encourage you
(06:02):
to pick it up. David, as we continue this conversation
about the lottery, which at its core is this idea
of getting rich quick without any work, um, let's talk
about just a biblical perspective of work and flourishing and
what God intended for us to be as co-creators with him,
created in his image.
S2 (06:23):
Hey, you know, Rob, if we kind of look at
maybe kind of one of the underlying issues, um, or
problems with the lottery, um, it goes all the way
back to God's design for mankind that we read in
Genesis 128. You know that God made us in his
image and being made in God's image. It means a
lot of things. But one of the things that it
(06:44):
means in a foundational way is that we are to to,
in a sense, to function like God. Genesis one God's creator.
And then he goes and he tells mankind, I want
you then to procreate. I want you to labor and function.
And in many ways sort of act like me. And
this is part of God's divine design for his creatures,
(07:05):
is that we would labor, that we would work. And
then as we labor and work, we would produce and
we would flourish. And so this is this is underlying
design for humanity. And a problem with the lottery is
it creates flourishing without work, which is a violation of
that principle. And so we can see this sort of
(07:27):
in a like a very easy way. I mean, just
I think of just even an hour ago here in
my office, I heard someone's tire screeching out on the road.
And I thought to myself, well, you know, someone's father
is still paying for their tires, right? Because, you know,
and it's that that teenager, you know, didn't labor for
the production, for the tires on their car, hence their
(07:49):
abusing them. And the same thing happens in so many
different ways, and even more so in the lottery, when
the stakes are so much higher, when, you know, there
could be hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars that
someone gets. When we look at the results, what happens
to lottery winners? We see that oftentimes there's a lot
of heartache, there's a lot of bankruptcy, a lot of
(08:12):
other sin that comes into it. And it all goes
back to this divine principle of we were designed to
bear God's image, to work in labor, and that's how
we're supposed to flourish and produce. We weren't made to
just receive production and to flourish apart from labor.
S1 (08:29):
That is so well said. You know, we came out
with a study here at Faith fi recently called Wisdom
Over Wealth, a deep dive into the book of Ecclesiastes.
And the author John Cortinez makes the point in the
book that when wealth increases faster than wisdom, we're in
a danger zone. But when wisdom Them outpaces wealth. We're
in a good position.
S2 (08:49):
O praise the Lord! Praise the Lord! I think in
my mind I just had jotted down earlier. Um, Ecclesiastes
312 and 13. Um, they're in Ecclesiastes. Solomon says, I
perceive that there is nothing better for men than to
be joyful and to do good as long as they live.
Also that everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure
(09:10):
in all their work. For this is God's good gift
to man. And so that's that's this divine principle that
we're talking about.
S1 (09:18):
I love that. Let's talk about just participating in the
system that's behind lottery. Uh, you know the statistics, they're staggering.
The poorest third of Americans buy more than half of
all lottery tickets. And those making under $10,000 spend about 6%
of their income on them. Does that raise ethical concerns
(09:38):
for believers, not just about participation, but support for systems
that clearly exploit the poor.
S2 (09:47):
Yeah. You know, it's, um, we we said earlier, you know,
just because something is, you know, permissible, it doesn't mean
it's wise. And we could even expand that and say
just because something is legal doesn't mean that it's it's moral. Yeah.
So in regard to things like the lottery, the question is,
is not, um, you know, can I do it? But
the question really is, you know, should I do it? Yes.
(10:10):
And a part of the answer to that, it's these
things that you brought up, Rob. Um, it's. Well, um,
you know who's being affected by what I'm doing. Uh,
what's going on in this larger industry that I'm voluntarily
perhaps participating in? And beyond that, what's happening to those
who are watching and those who are maybe seeing me participate? Uh,
(10:33):
and when we just look at the incredible negative effect
that it has that the lottery gambling has on, on
the poor, um, you know, in many ways it's, um,
the lottery. It's, uh, it's a redistributive tax from the
poor to the rich and to the state. Uh, and, uh,
I think in other ways, the lottery becomes very predatory, uh,
(10:55):
upon the most financially vulnerable in our society. And so
if that's the case, I think Christians really may need
to think long and hard about, uh, is it really
glorifying to God if I participate in this enterprise, or
might it be better to abstain from it?
S1 (11:14):
Yes. Now, on the flip side of that is, should
we take, uh, the benefits that come from the lottery?
So I'm here in the state of Georgia. Our Georgia
lottery collects over $1 billion a year. Half of that,
I think about two thirds, maybe three quarters goes to
the winnings and the administration, but a third of it
goes to, uh, you know, college subsidies and scholarships and grants.
(11:38):
My two boys, one who's in college now at the
University of Georgia. One who's on his way are going
to get 100% of their tuition covered because they've worked hard,
and that's going to come directly from the lottery. How
do we think about that as Christians?
S2 (11:52):
You know, it's um, I think in a sense, um,
there may be some room here for, uh, you know,
for disagreement among Christians that, um, certainly I have I
have friends, uh, who would say, you know, in, in
good conscience, um, you know, I could not, you know,
I could not receive such monies. And here in my
state of North Carolina, uh, we have the North Carolina
(12:12):
Education lottery. It's very similar to Georgia, where it's pretty
much the same kind of setup. And I have folks
who's who, you know, that they won't take the money
just because of, um, a conscience sort of decision. Uh,
but there are other Christians who I know that have
no problem with it at all. And just, you know,
their take is, hey, you know, we live in the
fallen world, uh, and it's full of fallen structures. Uh,
(12:35):
and as long as I'm not actually endorsing it or
facilitating it, then it would be okay to do that.
And so I think again, I think there's probably room
there for disagreement. I think what I would want to
affirm is, is an awareness of what's going on. And
I think certainly with our eyes open and knowing what's
(12:55):
what's part of the systems that we participate in, I
think that's what we need to process as we stand
before the Lord.
S1 (13:01):
Yeah, I think that's really helpful. David, we've got just
less than a minute left. What would you say to
someone in our listening audience who's feeling convicted today and
maybe still struggling with the temptation of playing the lottery?
What might you encourage them with?
S2 (13:14):
Yeah. You know, certainly, um, you know, playing the lottery,
whether it's, it's just an occasional thing or even if
someone has a weekly habit. Um, if for someone who's
convicted that that's that that's wrong. Um, I think in
regard to, you know, any other sin. First, John one
nine applies if we confess our sins, God is faithful
and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse
us from all unrighteousness. And so it's not the unpardonable sin.
(13:37):
And if for somebody that has perhaps erred. Um, certainly
repentance would be appropriate. Uh, and as with all sins,
you know, accountability and local church involvement is going to
be essential.
S1 (13:48):
Yeah, that's well said. Boy, what a gift to have
you with us. David, thanks for helping us think more
deeply and biblically about these important issues.
S2 (13:55):
Thanks, Rob. It's good to be here.
S1 (13:57):
That's David W Jones, senior professor of Christian ethics at
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Pick up his book, Every Good
Thing Where You Buy Books. We'll be back with your
questions after this break. So call right now 800 525 7000.
That's 800, 500, 25, 7000. Or if you'd prefer to
email your questions, send it to us at ask rob@faith.com.
(14:20):
Stick around.
S3 (14:33):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants are given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:57):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and finance.
Live here on Moody Radio, I'm Rob West. Well, we're
looking forward to taking your calls and questions today. The
rest of the program is yours. You can call right
now the number 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
You know, as you think about managing God's money, we
(15:17):
realize your goal. If you're listening to this program, it's
probably around the idea of living as a faithful steward.
That is understanding. You're accountable to God for everything entrusted
to your care. He owns it all. We're his money managers,
and we're to be found faithful. And we do that
by understanding his heart articulated in Scripture and through the
(15:38):
power of the Holy Spirit to manage money, a good
gift for our delight not to satisfy only God can satisfy,
but for our delight and enjoyment, so that we can
glorify God with it and use it as a tool
to accomplish God's purposes, including providing, including giving to those
in need. And those things on the heart of God
(15:59):
that we clearly see in Scripture, whether that's Christian workers
or the poor and the needy. Uh, you know, maybe
it's other causes on our heart or helping a friend
or a family member. All those things, I think, make
the Lord smile. It could also be used to bring
God glory and accomplish his purposes through our investments. You know,
when we deploy capital, especially now with the creation of
(16:21):
the faith based investing industry, uh, we have the ability
to deploy capital in a way that is going to
fund businesses that really are making the world rejoice, that are, uh,
allowing goods and services to flow in a way that
promotes human flourishing and even promotes a kingdom impact, ultimately
(16:41):
avoiding those companies that are misaligned with our values. That's
possible today, and it wasn't in the past. But we
also realize you have day to day questions, things like,
how do I get out of debt and improve that
credit score and live within my means and save for
a college education or retirement? And what about giving? How
do I do that wisely in all seasons of life,
(17:01):
including in retirement and when I have a required minimum distribution,
what are the ways to to give there? And what
about a donor advised fund? Those are all the types
of things we tackle on this program each day. So
now is the time to call. We would love for
you to get in the mix today. The lines will
fill up, but you can get right through at the
moment 800 525 7000. Again that number 800 525 7000.
(17:24):
You can call right now. Let's begin today in Ohio. Hi, Rome.
How can I help?
S4 (17:30):
Hey, thanks for taking my call. I have a quick question. Uh,
you see a lot of opportunities to take like, 0%
financing if you pay something off in 12 or 18 months,
whatever it might be. Um, if you can budget for it,
are you better off financially to just pay it all
off in one lump sum and be out that hundreds
or thousands, whatever it might be? Or are you better
(17:52):
off to take that offer and pay off in 12
increments over the 12 month period or or 18 month,
whatever it might be?
S1 (18:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, in a
from a technical sense, is it possible to earn a
few dollars if you keep the money in saving and
paying increments if there's a zero interest being charged? Sure. But,
you know, the challenge is these offers come with rather
harsh penalties if you don't pay off the entire loan
in time. Uh, you could have a big amount of
(18:23):
interest added to your balance, covering the entire term of
the loan, as if there had been a very high
interest rate the whole time. I think the other factor
is you're going to have to, you know, have that
hard inquiry on your credit report, um, which means that,
you know, if you're in the short term, at least
looking to qualify for a loan of some kind, you're
out there shopping for a mortgage or you're going to
(18:44):
buy a car, something like that. You'd want to be
very aware of that, because you probably would not want
to have that, uh, that hard inquiry hit your credit report.
Although if you're not doing anything anytime soon, you know,
that impact will be minimal and you should fully recover
from that just within a couple of months. So I
think the big issue is one is they're going to be, uh,
(19:05):
is that going to, uh, cause you in some way
to be, you know, use that money for some other
purpose just because it's sitting there and kind of burning
a hole in your pocket and therefore you can't, you know,
pay it off in full. Um, and if not, if
the money is there, you know, is there really any
benefit to waiting? Um, especially given, you know, the possibilities
(19:27):
of what could go wrong? Uh, and the fact that
you're just not going to make a whole lot in interest.
You know, for the typical appliance purchase or something like that.
So I would say, all things being equal, I'd love
for you just to go ahead and you got the
money for it. You obviously saved for it. You're buying
something that you can afford. Let's just go ahead and
pay for it and be done with it. That would
be my recommendation.
S4 (19:48):
Okay. Well, thank you so much, I appreciate it.
S1 (19:50):
All right. We appreciate your call. Rome God bless you,
my friend. 800 525 7000 is the number to call
to Iowa. Hi, Rebecca. How can I help you?
S5 (19:59):
Hi, Rob. I just had a quick question. Um, is
it right to take maternity leave from a company, like
paid maternity leave from a company that you're not even
returning to? Like, could you help me understand that? Like,
I don't I don't even understand. Like, I don't feel
good about that. Like I'm not pregnant right now, but
(20:20):
just kind of looking into the future. It's just kind
of like, I don't understand that completely.
S1 (20:26):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question. And, you know, I
think there's an integrity issue here, a clear communication issue,
but then also a conviction matter. And let's take those
one at a time. You know, I think from a
you know, legally you would be entitled to take maternity
leave under laws like the Family and Medical Leave Act
or if you qualify, or perhaps in a smaller company
(20:47):
just because it's a benefit made available to you. You've
worked there enough time to earn that benefit. You're in
the right to take it, and there would not generally
be any kind of commitment to return. Um, you know,
life circumstances can change during a leave. It happens, I
would say from an ethical standpoint in terms of integrity,
if you already know you're not returning, I think it's
(21:08):
respectful to your employer to be up front. And that's
where the clear communication comes in, because they're, you know,
expecting to just cover for you for that period of time.
And obviously if then they're hit at the other end
of that with the understanding that now you're not returning, well,
that's just going to put them in a difficult spot
from a staffing standpoint. And so I think you want
to be honest, I think you want to, you know,
(21:30):
leave your employer in a position to plan well for
your absence, whether that's short term or long term. And
then I think the final issue is just if you
have a real conviction about that from the Lord, I
would listen to that. And perhaps, you know, let them
know up front what's going on and let them make
the decision as to whether you can do that. And
and that would honor that conviction. I think perhaps the
(21:51):
Lord has given you. Let's talk a bit more off
the air. We'll be right back. I'm so glad you're
with us today on Faith in finance. Live here on
Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. This is the program where
we help you apply God's wisdom to your financial decisions,
help you to see God as your ultimate treasure. He
(22:13):
is the only thing that will satisfy and fill that
God sized space that we were created for. We were
created to be in relationship with him. Now he gives
us good gifts along the way. Work as a gift
were to be co-laborers with Christ, and that's a part
of his plan. Money is a gift. He's entrusted to
(22:33):
us the resources that belong to him, but put under
our care. And the goal of this program each day
is to help you live as a faithful steward. We
do that as we take your questions and bring you
encouragement from God's Word. We still have a few lines
open today with half the program remaining, so call right
now 800 525 7000. Let's go out to Missouri. Hi, Christine.
Go ahead.
S6 (22:55):
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I listen to
you guys just about every day. Bott radio usually comes
on when the computer comes on, and it kind of
rolls through the program. So I've, I've got just I've
gleaned just enough knowledge from listening to be dangerous when
it comes to 401 s, because I kind of know
(23:16):
but I don't know.
S1 (23:17):
Okay.
S6 (23:18):
And the what's going on is my husband's is looking
to change jobs, and the company that he's with now
has a 401 K, but the new company does not.
S1 (23:32):
Okay.
S6 (23:32):
And he's only been with the old company probably right
around a year when he does change jobs. So there's
not a lot in the 401 K. Yeah. But I
know just taking it out they're going to eat it
up in fees and taxes right.
S1 (23:48):
Right. Yeah. What is his age?
S6 (23:50):
I'm just wondering. Uh, he's 59.
S1 (23:54):
Okay. Yeah. So he's pretty close to being able to
pull it out without any penalties. Uh, but it would
be taxable. How much is in there?
S6 (24:03):
Uh, right now there's less than $500 in there, so
there's probably going to be less than a thousand in
there when he. When he changes jobs.
S1 (24:11):
Yeah. Okay. Do you all have any IRAs, individual retirement accounts?
S6 (24:17):
No.
S1 (24:18):
Okay.
S6 (24:18):
No.
S1 (24:19):
Yeah.
S6 (24:19):
So one K was our first taste.
S1 (24:22):
Got it. Okay. So what I would generally recommend is, um,
not leaving it there. And you have two options. Either
rolling it to a new 401 K to your new
employer employer, which does not apply here because as you said,
his new employer doesn't have 1 or 2 rolling it
to an IRA. And although there's not a whole lot
of money in there, it would give you some incentive
(24:44):
to go and get one open. Maybe you do that
at Fidelity or Schwab and then get this rolled in there.
And even though it's not a whole lot, maybe you
put it to work. And especially given that he doesn't
have a 401 K available at his new job, he's
going to want to be putting something away, uh, on
an annual basis. Um, you know, so you all have
(25:05):
something in the future when he's no longer working, at
least for pay. And maybe the Lord, you know, shifts
you all to something else. And so this could kind
of be the beginning. Maybe the seed money of that
IRA that hopefully, you know, you could continue to fund,
maybe on a monthly basis over the age of 50. Um,
you know, you have the opportunity to put in a
(25:26):
little bit more. So for 2025, if you're over the
age of 50, you can put in up to 8000
and you'd each be able to do that even if
you're a non-working spouse. So you all could put away
a total of 16,000 for the year between the two.
So that would be my recommendation, Christine, that he go
ahead and open that IRA. He'd roll it in from
(25:47):
the 401 K. That's not a taxable event. And then
as you're able, you all could begin contributing. If you
have the ability to put away more than 16,000 a
year between the two IRAs. Well, there are some other options,
you know, that he could explore, especially if he's self-employed.
S6 (26:04):
Okay. All righty. Well thank you. That helps a whole lot.
And you guys be blessed in your day.
S1 (26:12):
Well, thank you very much, Christine. I'd love to send
you a resource that I think might be helpful to you.
It's called the Sound Mind Investing Handbook, and it covers
a lot of these ideas, some that I just mentioned,
but all from a biblical perspective. And so if you're
interested in kind of learning a bit more in this area,
I think this would be a helpful read for you.
We'll send it to you just as our way of
(26:32):
saying thanks for being on the program today. So stay
on the line. We'll get your information and get the
Sound Mind Investing Handbook right out to you. Thanks for
your call to Chicago. Hi, Jason. Go ahead.
S7 (26:43):
Hey. How's it going? Um, money got a little tight, uh,
recent economy. Um, and, um, I'm not going to be
able to make my, uh, this month's, um, mortgage payment. So, what?
Two products that they're they're offering me are a repay
and forbearance. Um, and I was wondering what the difference was. Um,
(27:06):
because I want I want to have a sound mind
about this, but what the difference was between the two
and if there's any credit, um, implications on either one
of those.
S1 (27:15):
Yeah. And so talk to me about the first one.
I'm familiar with the forbearance. But when you say they're
offering a repay. Tell me more about what they're they're saying.
S7 (27:24):
Um, well, they're saying that, uh, I can skip the
payment for this month and then, um, spread it out
over the next six months. Um, they said that I
asked the I talked to numerous people over there, and
they say they don't have a credit specialist, but what
they did say was that they are going to report
it to, you know, the, the bureau as a, as
(27:44):
a repay. Um, so I don't know if that's if
you knew about that or if that was anything that. Yeah.
S1 (27:52):
Okay. Yeah. And so then the other option they're giving
you is a forbearance, uh, which is essentially, um, you know,
where they give you permission to temporarily pause or reduce payments.
What are they telling you about that option?
S7 (28:05):
Uh, they told me I can pause it for six
months and then spread it out over, um, I think
the course of six months or pay one lump sum.
Some think that's what what she said. If I remember correctly.
S1 (28:17):
Yeah, yeah. Got it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, the difference
essentially from what I'm hearing is, you know, what they're
offering sounds like a repayment plan where they allow you
to skip the payment this month, but then spread out
what you owe over the next several months. And this
is different from a forbearance where the payments are paused
without immediate repayment. I think the key thing to understand
(28:39):
is if your payment is officially late, according to your
original loan terms, your lender may report it as late
to the credit bureaus, even if you're on a repayment plan,
and that could hurt your credit score. Some lenders will
report it differently if you've arranged the plan ahead of time,
so I think it's really important to ask one, will
(28:59):
this show as a late payment on my credit report?
And two, can we structure this so that it doesn't
hurt my credit? Um, you know, and then I would
be sure that you can afford the higher payments in
the coming months. You know. If not, you may want
to ask for the forbearance option or even a loan modification. Uh,
you know, if that's needed. Um, do you feel like
(29:21):
this is a temporary event or will this continue to
be a problem in the future?
S7 (29:28):
Well. Hope. Hope is saying it's temporary, but it could maybe,
maybe be something that's reoccurring.
S1 (29:39):
Um, yeah.
S7 (29:40):
I'm trying to make it so that it's not, but.
S1 (29:42):
Yeah. Yeah, well, the good news is, and I'm sorry
to hear about that uncertainty. I know that weighs on
you heavy. Uh, I'm glad you called the lender, because
that's really one of the keys you want to lean
into that you don't want to just ignore them, because
that's where you can really get into a problem with
a foreclosure, which, you know, adds a lot of expense.
Even if you're able to get it out of foreclosure.
You know, it could be really costly because of the
(30:04):
legal side of that. So you want to try to
work with them as best you can. Um, you know,
the more drastic option would be asking for what's called
a loan modification, where they permanently change the terms of
your mortgage to make your payments more affordable. That could
be lowering the interest rate. That's unlikely. It could be
extending your loan term to spread out the payments. It
could be adding any missed payments to the loan balance.
(30:26):
So this would happen after the forbearance. And then in
some cases, although this is really rare, even reducing the
principal owed. So unlike the repayment plan in forbearance which
are temporary solutions the loan modification is a permanent adjustment.
But I would only use that, you know, if you
feel like this is going to be something that happens
more than just temporarily. So I think you need to
(30:49):
ask those questions. Will this show as a late payment
and can we structure it so it doesn't hurt my credit?
Great to have you with us today on Faith in
finance live I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and
questions today. Let's get right back to the phones out
to Colorado. Hi, Sherry. How can we help?
S8 (31:10):
Hi, Rob. Thank you for your program. Well, my question
is really more of a spiritual counseling question than a
financial question. Um, the main question is how is playing
the lottery after listening to your guest? Yeah. How is
playing the lottery so different than investing? And the reason
(31:31):
I ask that my husband retired from a job that
he hated, it was military, so he retired at 46.
And obviously we didn't communicate very well. I thought, you know,
he would have another career after that or another full
time job. Well, he really didn't. He got into investing
and did very well. And I have no reason to
complain because I live a good life. But I that
(31:56):
listening to your guest really brought up something in me
because I remember I resented so much. We waited a
long time to have our kids, so they were young,
five and eight. And I just felt like he never
modeled working. Just like the lottery. They never saw where
the money came from. There was plenty of money, but
(32:18):
they didn't see, you know, going to work. Yes.
S1 (32:24):
And yeah.
S8 (32:25):
Just listening to your guests, I realized, wow, I have
something to work on here. I still have a little
resentment about that. And I think my adult children would
say that, too, that they didn't feel that work was
modeled to them.
S1 (32:38):
Yes. Yes. Well, and clearly, if he were to. It's
a great question. Um, you know, I think there's two
sides of this. One is how do we train up
a child in the way he should go? And that's
in the admonition of God's word and the scriptures and
and ultimately and, uh, helping them to understand their importance
(32:59):
and need to place their trust in Jesus as their
Savior and then to live out of a biblical worldview,
which is to understand the counsel of Scripture as it
relates to all kinds of things, including work. That work
is worship that we were created to be workers. We
were created in the image of a worker, God himself,
who demonstrated that in creation that he gives us the
(33:22):
privilege of being workers and co-laboring with him. He creates
out of nothing. We create out of the latent potential
of his creation, but nevertheless he gives us and affords
us the opportunity to to take his creation and improve it,
which allows human flourishing to happen and and enjoyment. And
(33:42):
we get fulfillment in our work when it's done as
unto the Lord. Now anything can become an idol, but
that's not the way work was intended. And I think
that's why, you know, so often when we exit the
workforce to a life of leisure, which is kind of
the cultural view of retirement, I think we're missing God's design.
And I think that's why it leads to downsides related
(34:03):
to poor health and lack of purpose and so forth.
And so clearly part of our, uh, you know, uh,
responsibility is to be teaching that worldview and that, uh,
created order from God found in the scriptures to our kids.
And so the extent to which that was not taught,
you know, that's unfortunate. And I think a clear missed opportunity,
(34:27):
but I think that's different and separate from the idea
of investing, because I think we see in Scripture that,
you know, we are to, as good stewards, make productive
use of created resources. So growth and fruitfulness and productivity
are prominent themes in the creation narrative. And productive use
(34:50):
of created resources requires an exchange of goods and services
over time for mutual benefit. And so I think that's
where we see the the act of investing as really
a wise stewardship because essentially investing is ownership, which is
completely different than gambling. Gambling is a zero sum game.
(35:12):
For somebody to win, somebody else has to lose. And
we're just trying to get rich quick based on chance,
which is entirely different than investing where you and I
take capital. God's capital entrusted to us, and we invest
it in a real company providing goods and services which
are supposed to lead toward, you know, good products that
(35:34):
serve people and that creates human flourishing. And that's part
of God's design. The only way business gets capital to
do what it was created to do, which should be
to bless its neighbors and stakeholders and customers and vendors
and suppliers and employees, is through investment. That's how business
gets capital. So and then we get a return on
(35:56):
that as we invest in those companies and they do well,
that comes back to us. So we have the chance
for everybody to win. Uh, you know, the the the
customers win by receiving the goods and services. The business
grows and we get the return on that. And that's
a that's the way God designed it, which is very
different from us, you know, putting money into an exploitative
(36:17):
system that preys on the poor, that, you know, results
in a game of chance where there's a zero sum game,
one winner, one loser. Does that make sense, though?
S8 (36:27):
It totally does. I wish I could write down everything
you just said.
S1 (36:32):
Yeah, well, it. Yeah it.
S8 (36:34):
Does.
S1 (36:35):
Good. Well, I think, you know, again, this is and
these are not simple concepts. And so I'm, uh, you know,
I think the idea is that when we go back
to the creation account, we realize, you know, that, that
there are principles in creation that go all the way
back to the economy of the, the garden that, um,
you know, where we understand that God delights in the
(36:57):
goodness of, of his material worlds and, and it trusts
it to the care of mankind. And as image bearers
and stewards, we then have the opportunity to work and
invest and take God's resources and use them in a
way that that we can enjoy and allows us to
provide for you and your kids. And as your husband
worked or or in this case, invested. And that's a
(37:19):
good thing because, you know, that creates flourishing. Um, but
we do it for God's glory. We don't ever do
it for our own glory. And we don't ever worship
the creation. We worship the creator, and we enjoy the creation.
And I think that's where so often we can get
that mixed up. And, um, you know, it can become
an idol in our lives, especially living in the most
(37:40):
prosperous nation in the history of the world. So we
need to be on our guard. And that's in part
why we do what we do here every day just
to encourage God's people. And I'm talking to myself at
the same time because I can I can get caught
up in the seductive nature of riches myself. And, you know,
I go back to the parable of the sower. You sower.
Remember what choked out the word from bearing a 3600
(38:01):
fold return? It was the deceitfulness of wealth and the
desires for other things and the cares of this world.
But instead, when God is our ultimate treasure and money
is a tool, well, now all of a sudden we
can use it for God's glory and for his purposes.
So hopefully this has been an encouragement to you. Sherry,
it's a great question. I appreciate you raising it and
call anytime. Thanks for listening. Today. Uh, to Chicago. Hi, Betty.
(38:23):
Go ahead.
S9 (38:24):
Hi. I am considering getting a loan of 20 to
$30,000 for home repair. We have kind of a large
balance on our mortgage. It's like over 300,000. Um, we, uh,
my husband is retired. I'm 62. I'm still working. Um,
(38:45):
he gets his social security. Plus he does work on
the side, um, in his own business. Um, now, I
had open heart surgery, and while I was convalescing, I
was tithing like normal, and I had I had prayed
(39:06):
right after my surgery in the hospital. When I came to,
I said, Lord, thank you for my life and please
allow us to be able to pay this bill where
we won't lose everything and be on the street. We
were blessed with the bill of over $200,000, which I
know that sounds weird, like a blessing. The blessing is
(39:27):
that the hospital said I had no balance. Um, so
this is my question. We want to get a loan
and we want to know what is the best type
of loan, because our mortgage company will not give us
a loan unless we do a cash out refi. And
we don't want to do that because we have a
(39:47):
really good rate.
S1 (39:48):
Yeah, I was going to ask, so you've got one
in the twos or the threes.
S9 (39:52):
The threes. Yeah. We got like 2.25 or something like that.
So we don't want to and you know, we do
have an income coming in from the second floor tenant, which,
you know, that's not always a guarantee that they're going
to renew their lease or anything. But, um, we're not struggling.
We're doing okay. But I need to know, um, what's
the best way I have?
S10 (40:13):
What is the home worth?
S9 (40:15):
Um, the the home is worth, like, um, I think
like $600,000.
S10 (40:21):
Okay.
S1 (40:22):
And what do you owe on it? What's the first
mortgage balance?
S9 (40:25):
Like 300. It's the only mortgage balance. We've only we
only bought it like 5 or 6 years ago. So
we owe like 300. And I want to say like
$349,000 on it. Okay. I'm just guessing off the top
of my head.
S1 (40:41):
Yeah. So you've got quite a bit of equity in it,
which is great. Um, and so, you know, usually lenders
will allow you to borrow up to 80 or 85%, um,
if you're adding, you know, an additional mortgage there and
so that you had, you would have plenty of equity
to get a second loan on it. Um, you know,
(41:03):
generally what I would recommend at this point just where,
based on where rates are, is to get a home
equity line of credit, uh, which is a variable rate.
The good news about that is even though it'll be high,
because rates right now, you know, as of July are
sitting at around eight and a quarter for a HELOC.
That's that's about the average.
S10 (41:20):
Um, you know, they could.
S1 (41:22):
Go down, you know, could go down as in the
high sixes, if you have a really good credit score
and you look for somebody who's offering an introductory kind
of low rate, uh, right up front for the HELOC,
but generally speaking, you're talking north of 8%. So, um,
you know, I think the key would be you get
that line of credit you use as little as possible,
(41:43):
but just make sure you have the ability to service
that loan and not just the interest only, but a
payment that would allow you to get that paid off
over time, hopefully in, you know, ten years or less. Um,
but that would be the way to do it. You
don't want to touch that first mortgage. You certainly don't
want to do a cash out refi. You want to
do a home equity line of credit? Uh, only for
what you need. Borrow as little as possible, get it
(42:05):
paid back as quickly as you can. Now, if you
guys get into a situation where you just money is
tight and you're not able to, you know, really cover, uh, the,
the first mortgage, uh, or, you know, just by getting
rid of that mortgage payment, it would be a game
changer in your, uh, you know, financial life right now
because it's your largest expense. That's where you may want
(42:28):
to look at a reverse mortgage, because that would allow
you to get rid of that mortgage payment. Now, your
current balance, the 350 or so, would grow with interest
and fees, but it would just be paid out of
the sale of the home at your death or when
you move. But that's something to at least consider. Thanks
for your call today. Faith in finance is a partnership
between Moody Radio and Faith fi. Big thanks to my team.
(42:50):
See you tomorrow.
A faithful man will abound with blessings, but whoever hastens
to be rich will not go unpunished. Proverbs 28, verse 20. Hi,
I'm Rob West. Powerball jackpot and scratch off tickets might
seem like a shortcut to financial freedom, but should Christians
be buying in? Doctor David W Jones returns to our
financial ethics series today to help us think biblically about
(00:31):
the lottery and whether it aligns with a life of
faithful stewardship. And then it's on to your calls at 800, 500, 25, 7000.
That's 805, two five 7000. This is faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, we're honored to
have Doctor David W Jones back with us again today.
(00:53):
He's a senior professor of Christian ethics at Southeastern Baptist
Theological Seminary and the author of Every Good Thing, which
explores wealth, stewardship, and poverty from a biblical worldview. David,
great to have you back with us.
S2 (01:06):
Thanks, Robert. It's good to be here.
S1 (01:07):
David, as you know, last week we explored the ethics
of giving to the homeless. And today we turn to
something that seems harmless to many but raises significant ethical concerns.
And that is playing the lottery. Of course, we've seen
over recent years that lottery jackpots have climbed past $1 billion,
and it's sparked conversation among believers. So I want to
(01:29):
begin with the big picture. What does God's Word teach
about the desire to get rich quickly? And how might
that inform the way Christians view the lottery?
S2 (01:38):
Yeah, it's so important, Rob, that we think in biblical
categories about poverty and wealth and a few verses that
come to mind in Proverbs 1311, Solomon wrote and said
that wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little
by little will increase it. And then the writer of
(01:58):
the book of Hebrews, Hebrews 13 five wrote, and he
warned us and said, keep your life free from the
love of money, and be content with that which you have.
For God has said, I will never leave you nor
forsake you. I think both these verses just they speak
to the idea of the importance of work and of contentment.
S1 (02:19):
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Now, the lottery often
markets itself as a way to dream big or change
your life. But I know you've written that financial choices
reveal what we treasure most. We talk about that a
lot on this program. So what might a Christian's participation
in the lottery, David, reveal about what's going on in
the heart?
S2 (02:39):
You know, it's important that we maybe make a distinction between,
you know, having a desire to materially flourish. I mean,
I think certainly, um, all of us would prefer, you know,
blessings over Cursings. And I certainly, um, we feel a
duty to provide materially for our families, and that could
(03:00):
be a good thing. But when that actually changes over
and becomes an idol and we start to lust after
material things, I think that shows that our our hearts
become off. And the best way to monitor what's in
our heart is by looking at our words and looking
at what our hands are doing. Proverbs 23 seven Solomon
(03:21):
taught that our actions reveal our hearts. He wrote, as
a man thinks in his heart, so is he. And
then later on, Christ. Probably with that proverb in mind,
in Matthew 1234, Christ taught that out of the abundance
of the heart, the mouth speaks. And so for those
who play the lottery and are trying to increase their
(03:44):
riches and change their life, and to dream big, it
oftentimes it might show a discontentment in the heart, maybe
an unhealthy fixation on wealth.
S1 (03:55):
Yeah, no doubt about it. Now, that leads to the
practice of someone who's considering playing the lottery, or maybe
does occasionally, and they might say, well, David, it's just
for fun. How would you respond to that? And is
there a line where playing the lottery crosses from entertainment
into something more spiritually harmful?
S2 (04:14):
Yeah, that's a great question, Rob. And I think it, um,
maybe we need to make a distinction here between, uh,
you know, somebody who, you know, say your uncle gets
you a scratch off ticket, you know, for your birthday,
you know, is it sinful, you know, to scratch it off,
you know, and see if you've, you know, you've won
$20 or not. I think that would be different from
somebody that has a, um, a habitual, uh, weekly gambling engagement. Uh,
(04:37):
and so maybe we could say that it might not
be inherently wrong, uh, you know, to play the lottery
on occasion. But, of course, just because something is permissible
doesn't mean that it's it's wise. And I think we
could certainly say that, you know, playing the lottery, gambling,
it's never turned anyone into a better person.
S1 (04:54):
Yeah, there's no doubt about that. And then there's the
whole issue and ethics behind. Do we want to be
involved in an industry that's harming so many people, whether
it's for our entertainment or not? We'll continue to unpack
this with David W Jones just around the corner. Should
Christians play the lottery? Much more on that straight ahead
following this interview. Your questions today at 800 525 7000.
(05:18):
Stay with us. We'll be right back. Great to have
you with us today on Faith and Finance live. We're
in the midst of a financial ethics series. We're talking
(05:40):
today specifically about should Christians play the lottery? We're joined
by Doctor David W Jones. He's back with us again today.
He's senior professor of Christian Ethics at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.
He's also the author of Every Good Thing, which explores wealth, stewardship,
and poverty from a biblical perspective. I'd highly encourage you
(06:02):
to pick it up. David, as we continue this conversation
about the lottery, which at its core is this idea
of getting rich quick without any work, um, let's talk
about just a biblical perspective of work and flourishing and
what God intended for us to be as co-creators with him,
created in his image.
S2 (06:23):
Hey, you know, Rob, if we kind of look at
maybe kind of one of the underlying issues, um, or
problems with the lottery, um, it goes all the way
back to God's design for mankind that we read in
Genesis 128. You know that God made us in his
image and being made in God's image. It means a
lot of things. But one of the things that it
(06:44):
means in a foundational way is that we are to to,
in a sense, to function like God. Genesis one God's creator.
And then he goes and he tells mankind, I want
you then to procreate. I want you to labor and function.
And in many ways sort of act like me. And
this is part of God's divine design for his creatures,
(07:05):
is that we would labor, that we would work. And
then as we labor and work, we would produce and
we would flourish. And so this is this is underlying
design for humanity. And a problem with the lottery is
it creates flourishing without work, which is a violation of
that principle. And so we can see this sort of
(07:27):
in a like a very easy way. I mean, just
I think of just even an hour ago here in
my office, I heard someone's tire screeching out on the road.
And I thought to myself, well, you know, someone's father
is still paying for their tires, right? Because, you know,
and it's that that teenager, you know, didn't labor for
the production, for the tires on their car, hence their
(07:49):
abusing them. And the same thing happens in so many
different ways, and even more so in the lottery, when
the stakes are so much higher, when, you know, there
could be hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars that
someone gets. When we look at the results, what happens
to lottery winners? We see that oftentimes there's a lot
of heartache, there's a lot of bankruptcy, a lot of
(08:12):
other sin that comes into it. And it all goes
back to this divine principle of we were designed to
bear God's image, to work in labor, and that's how
we're supposed to flourish and produce. We weren't made to
just receive production and to flourish apart from labor.
S1 (08:29):
That is so well said. You know, we came out
with a study here at Faith fi recently called Wisdom
Over Wealth, a deep dive into the book of Ecclesiastes.
And the author John Cortinez makes the point in the
book that when wealth increases faster than wisdom, we're in
a danger zone. But when wisdom Them outpaces wealth. We're
in a good position.
S2 (08:49):
O praise the Lord! Praise the Lord! I think in
my mind I just had jotted down earlier. Um, Ecclesiastes
312 and 13. Um, they're in Ecclesiastes. Solomon says, I
perceive that there is nothing better for men than to
be joyful and to do good as long as they live.
Also that everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure
(09:10):
in all their work. For this is God's good gift
to man. And so that's that's this divine principle that
we're talking about.
S1 (09:18):
I love that. Let's talk about just participating in the
system that's behind lottery. Uh, you know the statistics, they're staggering.
The poorest third of Americans buy more than half of
all lottery tickets. And those making under $10,000 spend about 6%
of their income on them. Does that raise ethical concerns
(09:38):
for believers, not just about participation, but support for systems
that clearly exploit the poor.
S2 (09:47):
Yeah. You know, it's, um, we we said earlier, you know,
just because something is, you know, permissible, it doesn't mean
it's wise. And we could even expand that and say
just because something is legal doesn't mean that it's it's moral. Yeah.
So in regard to things like the lottery, the question is,
is not, um, you know, can I do it? But
the question really is, you know, should I do it? Yes.
(10:10):
And a part of the answer to that, it's these
things that you brought up, Rob. Um, it's. Well, um,
you know who's being affected by what I'm doing. Uh,
what's going on in this larger industry that I'm voluntarily
perhaps participating in? And beyond that, what's happening to those
who are watching and those who are maybe seeing me participate? Uh,
(10:33):
and when we just look at the incredible negative effect
that it has that the lottery gambling has on, on
the poor, um, you know, in many ways it's, um,
the lottery. It's, uh, it's a redistributive tax from the
poor to the rich and to the state. Uh, and, uh,
I think in other ways, the lottery becomes very predatory, uh,
(10:55):
upon the most financially vulnerable in our society. And so
if that's the case, I think Christians really may need
to think long and hard about, uh, is it really
glorifying to God if I participate in this enterprise, or
might it be better to abstain from it?
S1 (11:14):
Yes. Now, on the flip side of that is, should
we take, uh, the benefits that come from the lottery?
So I'm here in the state of Georgia. Our Georgia
lottery collects over $1 billion a year. Half of that,
I think about two thirds, maybe three quarters goes to
the winnings and the administration, but a third of it
goes to, uh, you know, college subsidies and scholarships and grants.
(11:38):
My two boys, one who's in college now at the
University of Georgia. One who's on his way are going
to get 100% of their tuition covered because they've worked hard,
and that's going to come directly from the lottery. How
do we think about that as Christians?
S2 (11:52):
You know, it's um, I think in a sense, um,
there may be some room here for, uh, you know,
for disagreement among Christians that, um, certainly I have I
have friends, uh, who would say, you know, in, in
good conscience, um, you know, I could not, you know,
I could not receive such monies. And here in my
state of North Carolina, uh, we have the North Carolina
(12:12):
Education lottery. It's very similar to Georgia, where it's pretty
much the same kind of setup. And I have folks
who's who, you know, that they won't take the money
just because of, um, a conscience sort of decision. Uh,
but there are other Christians who I know that have
no problem with it at all. And just, you know,
their take is, hey, you know, we live in the
fallen world, uh, and it's full of fallen structures. Uh,
(12:35):
and as long as I'm not actually endorsing it or
facilitating it, then it would be okay to do that.
And so I think again, I think there's probably room
there for disagreement. I think what I would want to
affirm is, is an awareness of what's going on. And
I think certainly with our eyes open and knowing what's
(12:55):
what's part of the systems that we participate in, I
think that's what we need to process as we stand
before the Lord.
S1 (13:01):
Yeah, I think that's really helpful. David, we've got just
less than a minute left. What would you say to
someone in our listening audience who's feeling convicted today and
maybe still struggling with the temptation of playing the lottery?
What might you encourage them with?
S2 (13:14):
Yeah. You know, certainly, um, you know, playing the lottery,
whether it's, it's just an occasional thing or even if
someone has a weekly habit. Um, if for someone who's
convicted that that's that that's wrong. Um, I think in
regard to, you know, any other sin. First, John one
nine applies if we confess our sins, God is faithful
and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse
us from all unrighteousness. And so it's not the unpardonable sin.
(13:37):
And if for somebody that has perhaps erred. Um, certainly
repentance would be appropriate. Uh, and as with all sins,
you know, accountability and local church involvement is going to
be essential.
S1 (13:48):
Yeah, that's well said. Boy, what a gift to have
you with us. David, thanks for helping us think more
deeply and biblically about these important issues.
S2 (13:55):
Thanks, Rob. It's good to be here.
S1 (13:57):
That's David W Jones, senior professor of Christian ethics at
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Pick up his book, Every Good
Thing Where You Buy Books. We'll be back with your
questions after this break. So call right now 800 525 7000.
That's 800, 500, 25, 7000. Or if you'd prefer to
email your questions, send it to us at ask rob@faith.com.
(14:20):
Stick around.
S3 (14:33):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants are given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:57):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and finance.
Live here on Moody Radio, I'm Rob West. Well, we're
looking forward to taking your calls and questions today. The
rest of the program is yours. You can call right
now the number 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
You know, as you think about managing God's money, we
(15:17):
realize your goal. If you're listening to this program, it's
probably around the idea of living as a faithful steward.
That is understanding. You're accountable to God for everything entrusted
to your care. He owns it all. We're his money managers,
and we're to be found faithful. And we do that
by understanding his heart articulated in Scripture and through the
(15:38):
power of the Holy Spirit to manage money, a good
gift for our delight not to satisfy only God can satisfy,
but for our delight and enjoyment, so that we can
glorify God with it and use it as a tool
to accomplish God's purposes, including providing, including giving to those
in need. And those things on the heart of God
(15:59):
that we clearly see in Scripture, whether that's Christian workers
or the poor and the needy. Uh, you know, maybe
it's other causes on our heart or helping a friend
or a family member. All those things, I think, make
the Lord smile. It could also be used to bring
God glory and accomplish his purposes through our investments. You know,
when we deploy capital, especially now with the creation of
(16:21):
the faith based investing industry, uh, we have the ability
to deploy capital in a way that is going to
fund businesses that really are making the world rejoice, that are, uh,
allowing goods and services to flow in a way that
promotes human flourishing and even promotes a kingdom impact, ultimately
(16:41):
avoiding those companies that are misaligned with our values. That's
possible today, and it wasn't in the past. But we
also realize you have day to day questions, things like,
how do I get out of debt and improve that
credit score and live within my means and save for
a college education or retirement? And what about giving? How
do I do that wisely in all seasons of life,
(17:01):
including in retirement and when I have a required minimum distribution,
what are the ways to to give there? And what
about a donor advised fund? Those are all the types
of things we tackle on this program each day. So
now is the time to call. We would love for
you to get in the mix today. The lines will
fill up, but you can get right through at the
moment 800 525 7000. Again that number 800 525 7000.
(17:24):
You can call right now. Let's begin today in Ohio. Hi, Rome.
How can I help?
S4 (17:30):
Hey, thanks for taking my call. I have a quick question. Uh,
you see a lot of opportunities to take like, 0%
financing if you pay something off in 12 or 18 months,
whatever it might be. Um, if you can budget for it,
are you better off financially to just pay it all
off in one lump sum and be out that hundreds
or thousands, whatever it might be? Or are you better
(17:52):
off to take that offer and pay off in 12
increments over the 12 month period or or 18 month,
whatever it might be?
S1 (18:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, in a
from a technical sense, is it possible to earn a
few dollars if you keep the money in saving and
paying increments if there's a zero interest being charged? Sure. But,
you know, the challenge is these offers come with rather
harsh penalties if you don't pay off the entire loan
in time. Uh, you could have a big amount of
(18:23):
interest added to your balance, covering the entire term of
the loan, as if there had been a very high
interest rate the whole time. I think the other factor
is you're going to have to, you know, have that
hard inquiry on your credit report, um, which means that,
you know, if you're in the short term, at least
looking to qualify for a loan of some kind, you're
out there shopping for a mortgage or you're going to
(18:44):
buy a car, something like that. You'd want to be
very aware of that, because you probably would not want
to have that, uh, that hard inquiry hit your credit report.
Although if you're not doing anything anytime soon, you know,
that impact will be minimal and you should fully recover
from that just within a couple of months. So I
think the big issue is one is they're going to be, uh,
(19:05):
is that going to, uh, cause you in some way
to be, you know, use that money for some other
purpose just because it's sitting there and kind of burning
a hole in your pocket and therefore you can't, you know,
pay it off in full. Um, and if not, if
the money is there, you know, is there really any
benefit to waiting? Um, especially given, you know, the possibilities
(19:27):
of what could go wrong? Uh, and the fact that
you're just not going to make a whole lot in interest.
You know, for the typical appliance purchase or something like that.
So I would say, all things being equal, I'd love
for you just to go ahead and you got the
money for it. You obviously saved for it. You're buying
something that you can afford. Let's just go ahead and
pay for it and be done with it. That would
be my recommendation.
S4 (19:48):
Okay. Well, thank you so much, I appreciate it.
S1 (19:50):
All right. We appreciate your call. Rome God bless you,
my friend. 800 525 7000 is the number to call
to Iowa. Hi, Rebecca. How can I help you?
S5 (19:59):
Hi, Rob. I just had a quick question. Um, is
it right to take maternity leave from a company, like
paid maternity leave from a company that you're not even
returning to? Like, could you help me understand that? Like,
I don't I don't even understand. Like, I don't feel
good about that. Like I'm not pregnant right now, but
(20:20):
just kind of looking into the future. It's just kind
of like, I don't understand that completely.
S1 (20:26):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question. And, you know, I
think there's an integrity issue here, a clear communication issue,
but then also a conviction matter. And let's take those
one at a time. You know, I think from a
you know, legally you would be entitled to take maternity
leave under laws like the Family and Medical Leave Act
or if you qualify, or perhaps in a smaller company
(20:47):
just because it's a benefit made available to you. You've
worked there enough time to earn that benefit. You're in
the right to take it, and there would not generally
be any kind of commitment to return. Um, you know,
life circumstances can change during a leave. It happens, I
would say from an ethical standpoint in terms of integrity,
if you already know you're not returning, I think it's
(21:08):
respectful to your employer to be up front. And that's
where the clear communication comes in, because they're, you know,
expecting to just cover for you for that period of time.
And obviously if then they're hit at the other end
of that with the understanding that now you're not returning, well,
that's just going to put them in a difficult spot
from a staffing standpoint. And so I think you want
to be honest, I think you want to, you know,
(21:30):
leave your employer in a position to plan well for
your absence, whether that's short term or long term. And
then I think the final issue is just if you
have a real conviction about that from the Lord, I
would listen to that. And perhaps, you know, let them
know up front what's going on and let them make
the decision as to whether you can do that. And
and that would honor that conviction. I think perhaps the
(21:51):
Lord has given you. Let's talk a bit more off
the air. We'll be right back. I'm so glad you're
with us today on Faith in finance. Live here on
Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. This is the program where
we help you apply God's wisdom to your financial decisions,
help you to see God as your ultimate treasure. He
(22:13):
is the only thing that will satisfy and fill that
God sized space that we were created for. We were
created to be in relationship with him. Now he gives
us good gifts along the way. Work as a gift
were to be co-laborers with Christ, and that's a part
of his plan. Money is a gift. He's entrusted to
(22:33):
us the resources that belong to him, but put under
our care. And the goal of this program each day
is to help you live as a faithful steward. We
do that as we take your questions and bring you
encouragement from God's Word. We still have a few lines
open today with half the program remaining, so call right
now 800 525 7000. Let's go out to Missouri. Hi, Christine.
Go ahead.
S6 (22:55):
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I listen to
you guys just about every day. Bott radio usually comes
on when the computer comes on, and it kind of
rolls through the program. So I've, I've got just I've
gleaned just enough knowledge from listening to be dangerous when
it comes to 401 s, because I kind of know
(23:16):
but I don't know.
S1 (23:17):
Okay.
S6 (23:18):
And the what's going on is my husband's is looking
to change jobs, and the company that he's with now
has a 401 K, but the new company does not.
S1 (23:32):
Okay.
S6 (23:32):
And he's only been with the old company probably right
around a year when he does change jobs. So there's
not a lot in the 401 K. Yeah. But I
know just taking it out they're going to eat it
up in fees and taxes right.
S1 (23:48):
Right. Yeah. What is his age?
S6 (23:50):
I'm just wondering. Uh, he's 59.
S1 (23:54):
Okay. Yeah. So he's pretty close to being able to
pull it out without any penalties. Uh, but it would
be taxable. How much is in there?
S6 (24:03):
Uh, right now there's less than $500 in there, so
there's probably going to be less than a thousand in
there when he. When he changes jobs.
S1 (24:11):
Yeah. Okay. Do you all have any IRAs, individual retirement accounts?
S6 (24:17):
No.
S1 (24:18):
Okay.
S6 (24:18):
No.
S1 (24:19):
Yeah.
S6 (24:19):
So one K was our first taste.
S1 (24:22):
Got it. Okay. So what I would generally recommend is, um,
not leaving it there. And you have two options. Either
rolling it to a new 401 K to your new
employer employer, which does not apply here because as you said,
his new employer doesn't have 1 or 2 rolling it
to an IRA. And although there's not a whole lot
of money in there, it would give you some incentive
(24:44):
to go and get one open. Maybe you do that
at Fidelity or Schwab and then get this rolled in there.
And even though it's not a whole lot, maybe you
put it to work. And especially given that he doesn't
have a 401 K available at his new job, he's
going to want to be putting something away, uh, on
an annual basis. Um, you know, so you all have
(25:05):
something in the future when he's no longer working, at
least for pay. And maybe the Lord, you know, shifts
you all to something else. And so this could kind
of be the beginning. Maybe the seed money of that
IRA that hopefully, you know, you could continue to fund,
maybe on a monthly basis over the age of 50. Um,
you know, you have the opportunity to put in a
(25:26):
little bit more. So for 2025, if you're over the
age of 50, you can put in up to 8000
and you'd each be able to do that even if
you're a non-working spouse. So you all could put away
a total of 16,000 for the year between the two.
So that would be my recommendation, Christine, that he go
ahead and open that IRA. He'd roll it in from
(25:47):
the 401 K. That's not a taxable event. And then
as you're able, you all could begin contributing. If you
have the ability to put away more than 16,000 a
year between the two IRAs. Well, there are some other options,
you know, that he could explore, especially if he's self-employed.
S6 (26:04):
Okay. All righty. Well thank you. That helps a whole lot.
And you guys be blessed in your day.
S1 (26:12):
Well, thank you very much, Christine. I'd love to send
you a resource that I think might be helpful to you.
It's called the Sound Mind Investing Handbook, and it covers
a lot of these ideas, some that I just mentioned,
but all from a biblical perspective. And so if you're
interested in kind of learning a bit more in this area,
I think this would be a helpful read for you.
We'll send it to you just as our way of
(26:32):
saying thanks for being on the program today. So stay
on the line. We'll get your information and get the
Sound Mind Investing Handbook right out to you. Thanks for
your call to Chicago. Hi, Jason. Go ahead.
S7 (26:43):
Hey. How's it going? Um, money got a little tight, uh,
recent economy. Um, and, um, I'm not going to be
able to make my, uh, this month's, um, mortgage payment. So, what?
Two products that they're they're offering me are a repay
and forbearance. Um, and I was wondering what the difference was. Um,
(27:06):
because I want I want to have a sound mind
about this, but what the difference was between the two
and if there's any credit, um, implications on either one
of those.
S1 (27:15):
Yeah. And so talk to me about the first one.
I'm familiar with the forbearance. But when you say they're
offering a repay. Tell me more about what they're they're saying.
S7 (27:24):
Um, well, they're saying that, uh, I can skip the
payment for this month and then, um, spread it out
over the next six months. Um, they said that I
asked the I talked to numerous people over there, and
they say they don't have a credit specialist, but what
they did say was that they are going to report
it to, you know, the, the bureau as a, as
(27:44):
a repay. Um, so I don't know if that's if
you knew about that or if that was anything that. Yeah.
S1 (27:52):
Okay. Yeah. And so then the other option they're giving
you is a forbearance, uh, which is essentially, um, you know,
where they give you permission to temporarily pause or reduce payments.
What are they telling you about that option?
S7 (28:05):
Uh, they told me I can pause it for six
months and then spread it out over, um, I think
the course of six months or pay one lump sum.
Some think that's what what she said. If I remember correctly.
S1 (28:17):
Yeah, yeah. Got it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, the difference
essentially from what I'm hearing is, you know, what they're
offering sounds like a repayment plan where they allow you
to skip the payment this month, but then spread out
what you owe over the next several months. And this
is different from a forbearance where the payments are paused
without immediate repayment. I think the key thing to understand
(28:39):
is if your payment is officially late, according to your
original loan terms, your lender may report it as late
to the credit bureaus, even if you're on a repayment plan,
and that could hurt your credit score. Some lenders will
report it differently if you've arranged the plan ahead of time,
so I think it's really important to ask one, will
(28:59):
this show as a late payment on my credit report?
And two, can we structure this so that it doesn't
hurt my credit? Um, you know, and then I would
be sure that you can afford the higher payments in
the coming months. You know. If not, you may want
to ask for the forbearance option or even a loan modification. Uh,
you know, if that's needed. Um, do you feel like
(29:21):
this is a temporary event or will this continue to
be a problem in the future?
S7 (29:28):
Well. Hope. Hope is saying it's temporary, but it could maybe,
maybe be something that's reoccurring.
S1 (29:39):
Um, yeah.
S7 (29:40):
I'm trying to make it so that it's not, but.
S1 (29:42):
Yeah. Yeah, well, the good news is, and I'm sorry
to hear about that uncertainty. I know that weighs on
you heavy. Uh, I'm glad you called the lender, because
that's really one of the keys you want to lean
into that you don't want to just ignore them, because
that's where you can really get into a problem with
a foreclosure, which, you know, adds a lot of expense.
Even if you're able to get it out of foreclosure.
You know, it could be really costly because of the
(30:04):
legal side of that. So you want to try to
work with them as best you can. Um, you know,
the more drastic option would be asking for what's called
a loan modification, where they permanently change the terms of
your mortgage to make your payments more affordable. That could
be lowering the interest rate. That's unlikely. It could be
extending your loan term to spread out the payments. It
could be adding any missed payments to the loan balance.
(30:26):
So this would happen after the forbearance. And then in
some cases, although this is really rare, even reducing the
principal owed. So unlike the repayment plan in forbearance which
are temporary solutions the loan modification is a permanent adjustment.
But I would only use that, you know, if you
feel like this is going to be something that happens
more than just temporarily. So I think you need to
(30:49):
ask those questions. Will this show as a late payment
and can we structure it so it doesn't hurt my credit?
Great to have you with us today on Faith in
finance live I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and
questions today. Let's get right back to the phones out
to Colorado. Hi, Sherry. How can we help?
S8 (31:10):
Hi, Rob. Thank you for your program. Well, my question
is really more of a spiritual counseling question than a
financial question. Um, the main question is how is playing
the lottery after listening to your guest? Yeah. How is
playing the lottery so different than investing? And the reason
(31:31):
I ask that my husband retired from a job that
he hated, it was military, so he retired at 46.
And obviously we didn't communicate very well. I thought, you know,
he would have another career after that or another full
time job. Well, he really didn't. He got into investing
and did very well. And I have no reason to
complain because I live a good life. But I that
(31:56):
listening to your guest really brought up something in me
because I remember I resented so much. We waited a
long time to have our kids, so they were young,
five and eight. And I just felt like he never
modeled working. Just like the lottery. They never saw where
the money came from. There was plenty of money, but
(32:18):
they didn't see, you know, going to work. Yes.
S1 (32:24):
And yeah.
S8 (32:25):
Just listening to your guests, I realized, wow, I have
something to work on here. I still have a little
resentment about that. And I think my adult children would
say that, too, that they didn't feel that work was
modeled to them.
S1 (32:38):
Yes. Yes. Well, and clearly, if he were to. It's
a great question. Um, you know, I think there's two
sides of this. One is how do we train up
a child in the way he should go? And that's
in the admonition of God's word and the scriptures and
and ultimately and, uh, helping them to understand their importance
(32:59):
and need to place their trust in Jesus as their
Savior and then to live out of a biblical worldview,
which is to understand the counsel of Scripture as it
relates to all kinds of things, including work. That work
is worship that we were created to be workers. We
were created in the image of a worker, God himself,
who demonstrated that in creation that he gives us the
(33:22):
privilege of being workers and co-laboring with him. He creates
out of nothing. We create out of the latent potential
of his creation, but nevertheless he gives us and affords
us the opportunity to to take his creation and improve it,
which allows human flourishing to happen and and enjoyment. And
(33:42):
we get fulfillment in our work when it's done as
unto the Lord. Now anything can become an idol, but
that's not the way work was intended. And I think
that's why, you know, so often when we exit the
workforce to a life of leisure, which is kind of
the cultural view of retirement, I think we're missing God's design.
And I think that's why it leads to downsides related
(34:03):
to poor health and lack of purpose and so forth.
And so clearly part of our, uh, you know, uh,
responsibility is to be teaching that worldview and that, uh,
created order from God found in the scriptures to our kids.
And so the extent to which that was not taught,
you know, that's unfortunate. And I think a clear missed opportunity,
(34:27):
but I think that's different and separate from the idea
of investing, because I think we see in Scripture that,
you know, we are to, as good stewards, make productive
use of created resources. So growth and fruitfulness and productivity
are prominent themes in the creation narrative. And productive use
(34:50):
of created resources requires an exchange of goods and services
over time for mutual benefit. And so I think that's
where we see the the act of investing as really
a wise stewardship because essentially investing is ownership, which is
completely different than gambling. Gambling is a zero sum game.
(35:12):
For somebody to win, somebody else has to lose. And
we're just trying to get rich quick based on chance,
which is entirely different than investing where you and I
take capital. God's capital entrusted to us, and we invest
it in a real company providing goods and services which
are supposed to lead toward, you know, good products that
(35:34):
serve people and that creates human flourishing. And that's part
of God's design. The only way business gets capital to
do what it was created to do, which should be
to bless its neighbors and stakeholders and customers and vendors
and suppliers and employees, is through investment. That's how business
gets capital. So and then we get a return on
(35:56):
that as we invest in those companies and they do well,
that comes back to us. So we have the chance
for everybody to win. Uh, you know, the the the
customers win by receiving the goods and services. The business
grows and we get the return on that. And that's
a that's the way God designed it, which is very
different from us, you know, putting money into an exploitative
(36:17):
system that preys on the poor, that, you know, results
in a game of chance where there's a zero sum game,
one winner, one loser. Does that make sense, though?
S8 (36:27):
It totally does. I wish I could write down everything
you just said.
S1 (36:32):
Yeah, well, it. Yeah it.
S8 (36:34):
Does.
S1 (36:35):
Good. Well, I think, you know, again, this is and
these are not simple concepts. And so I'm, uh, you know,
I think the idea is that when we go back
to the creation account, we realize, you know, that, that
there are principles in creation that go all the way
back to the economy of the, the garden that, um,
you know, where we understand that God delights in the
(36:57):
goodness of, of his material worlds and, and it trusts
it to the care of mankind. And as image bearers
and stewards, we then have the opportunity to work and
invest and take God's resources and use them in a
way that that we can enjoy and allows us to
provide for you and your kids. And as your husband
worked or or in this case, invested. And that's a
(37:19):
good thing because, you know, that creates flourishing. Um, but
we do it for God's glory. We don't ever do
it for our own glory. And we don't ever worship
the creation. We worship the creator, and we enjoy the creation.
And I think that's where so often we can get
that mixed up. And, um, you know, it can become
an idol in our lives, especially living in the most
(37:40):
prosperous nation in the history of the world. So we
need to be on our guard. And that's in part
why we do what we do here every day just
to encourage God's people. And I'm talking to myself at
the same time because I can I can get caught
up in the seductive nature of riches myself. And, you know,
I go back to the parable of the sower. You sower.
Remember what choked out the word from bearing a 3600
(38:01):
fold return? It was the deceitfulness of wealth and the
desires for other things and the cares of this world.
But instead, when God is our ultimate treasure and money
is a tool, well, now all of a sudden we
can use it for God's glory and for his purposes.
So hopefully this has been an encouragement to you. Sherry,
it's a great question. I appreciate you raising it and
call anytime. Thanks for listening. Today. Uh, to Chicago. Hi, Betty.
(38:23):
Go ahead.
S9 (38:24):
Hi. I am considering getting a loan of 20 to
$30,000 for home repair. We have kind of a large
balance on our mortgage. It's like over 300,000. Um, we, uh,
my husband is retired. I'm 62. I'm still working. Um,
(38:45):
he gets his social security. Plus he does work on
the side, um, in his own business. Um, now, I
had open heart surgery, and while I was convalescing, I
was tithing like normal, and I had I had prayed
(39:06):
right after my surgery in the hospital. When I came to,
I said, Lord, thank you for my life and please
allow us to be able to pay this bill where
we won't lose everything and be on the street. We
were blessed with the bill of over $200,000, which I
know that sounds weird, like a blessing. The blessing is
(39:27):
that the hospital said I had no balance. Um, so
this is my question. We want to get a loan
and we want to know what is the best type
of loan, because our mortgage company will not give us
a loan unless we do a cash out refi. And
we don't want to do that because we have a
(39:47):
really good rate.
S1 (39:48):
Yeah, I was going to ask, so you've got one
in the twos or the threes.
S9 (39:52):
The threes. Yeah. We got like 2.25 or something like that.
So we don't want to and you know, we do
have an income coming in from the second floor tenant, which,
you know, that's not always a guarantee that they're going
to renew their lease or anything. But, um, we're not struggling.
We're doing okay. But I need to know, um, what's
the best way I have?
S10 (40:13):
What is the home worth?
S9 (40:15):
Um, the the home is worth, like, um, I think
like $600,000.
S10 (40:21):
Okay.
S1 (40:22):
And what do you owe on it? What's the first
mortgage balance?
S9 (40:25):
Like 300. It's the only mortgage balance. We've only we
only bought it like 5 or 6 years ago. So
we owe like 300. And I want to say like
$349,000 on it. Okay. I'm just guessing off the top
of my head.
S1 (40:41):
Yeah. So you've got quite a bit of equity in it,
which is great. Um, and so, you know, usually lenders
will allow you to borrow up to 80 or 85%, um,
if you're adding, you know, an additional mortgage there and
so that you had, you would have plenty of equity
to get a second loan on it. Um, you know,
(41:03):
generally what I would recommend at this point just where,
based on where rates are, is to get a home
equity line of credit, uh, which is a variable rate.
The good news about that is even though it'll be high,
because rates right now, you know, as of July are
sitting at around eight and a quarter for a HELOC.
That's that's about the average.
S10 (41:20):
Um, you know, they could.
S1 (41:22):
Go down, you know, could go down as in the
high sixes, if you have a really good credit score
and you look for somebody who's offering an introductory kind
of low rate, uh, right up front for the HELOC,
but generally speaking, you're talking north of 8%. So, um,
you know, I think the key would be you get
that line of credit you use as little as possible,
(41:43):
but just make sure you have the ability to service
that loan and not just the interest only, but a
payment that would allow you to get that paid off
over time, hopefully in, you know, ten years or less. Um,
but that would be the way to do it. You
don't want to touch that first mortgage. You certainly don't
want to do a cash out refi. You want to
do a home equity line of credit? Uh, only for
what you need. Borrow as little as possible, get it
(42:05):
paid back as quickly as you can. Now, if you
guys get into a situation where you just money is
tight and you're not able to, you know, really cover, uh, the,
the first mortgage, uh, or, you know, just by getting
rid of that mortgage payment, it would be a game
changer in your, uh, you know, financial life right now
because it's your largest expense. That's where you may want
(42:28):
to look at a reverse mortgage, because that would allow
you to get rid of that mortgage payment. Now, your
current balance, the 350 or so, would grow with interest
and fees, but it would just be paid out of
the sale of the home at your death or when
you move. But that's something to at least consider. Thanks
for your call today. Faith in finance is a partnership
between Moody Radio and Faith fi. Big thanks to my team.
(42:50):
See you tomorrow.
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