July 16, 2025 • 42 mins
Sports betting is more popular—and more accepted—than ever, even among Christians. But is it just harmless fun, or something more? On the next Faith & Finance Live, Dr. David W. Jones joins Rob West again in our financial ethics series. They examine what is said in Scripture about gambling and how believers should think about it. Then, Rob addresses your financial questions. That’s Faith & Finance Live, where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances—weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:08):
Keep your life free from the love of money and
be content with what you have. For he has said,
I will never leave you nor forsake you. Hebrews 13 five. Hi,
I'm Rob West. Sports betting is more popular and more
accepted than ever, even among Christians. But is it just
harmless fun or something more? Doctor David W Jones joins
us today in our series on financial ethics to examine
(00:31):
what Scripture says about gambling and how believers should think
about it. And then it's on to your calls at
800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. This is faith
and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well,
we're honored to have Doctor David W Jones back with
(00:52):
us again today. He's a senior professor of Christian ethics
at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and the author of Every
Good Thing, which explores wealth, stewardship and poverty from a
biblical worldview. And I highly recommend it. David, great to
have you back with us.
S2 (01:07):
Hey, Rob, it's good to be here.
S1 (01:09):
David. As a part of our ongoing financial ethics series,
we looked at the ethics of giving to the homeless
and playing the lottery. Today we're turning to sports betting,
now legal in over 30 states with more than 100
billion wagered annually. That's according to the American Gaming Association. David.
For many, it seems like harmless entertainment. But before we
(01:32):
get into the practical concerns, what does Scripture reveal about
the heart behind gambling and sports betting?
S2 (01:39):
You know, Rob, even as we, uh, we talked about,
you know, last week in our discussion of the lottery,
we see some of the some of the same foundations,
some of the same biblical themes. Um, Proverbs 1311 comes
to my mind, uh, where Solomon writes that wealth gained
hastily will dwindle, but whoever gains little by little will
increase it. And so again, it's just that idea that
(02:02):
if we if we flourish, if we have a large
jackpot that we get through sports betting and it's gained hastily,
it's probably not going to last because it's a violation
of that divinely designed plan that we actually work in
order to flourish. Another verse that comes to mind, uh,
first Timothy six nine. Uh, Paul says, but those who
(02:23):
desire to be rich will fall into temptation, into a snare,
into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into
ruin and destruction. And so, Paul, they were just talking
about the importance of having a a heart that's not
focused overly on money, uh, but rather views money as
(02:43):
a tool, uh, simply to live in this material world.
S1 (02:47):
Yeah. I think that's really helpful and so important to
establish a biblical foundation for our discussion today. Uh, David,
as we begin to talk practically about this, let's clarify
some terms. What's the difference, in your view, between gambling
and simply spending money on entertainment like a vacation? Or
perhaps where it becomes less clear when someone gambles a
(03:08):
set amount of money for fun in Las Vegas?
S2 (03:12):
Yeah, Rob, I think we could define gambling along these lines.
It's akin to wagering money with hopes of a future
inquiries on an event with an uncertain outcome that's primarily
determined by chance. So things like, um, you know, like
sports betting or even buying a lottery ticket, um, maybe
(03:32):
playing a casino game, something along those lines, uh, you know,
whereas if we were to say, well, what about just, um,
an occasional, um, foray into gambling, maybe you, uh, you
wager in the, uh, the March Madness bracket in the
office pool just for entertainment? Um, I think that that
a difference there, uh, might be that we're comparing maybe
(03:55):
sort of one time passing entertainment with, uh, chronic idolatry
of money that might be characterized by a daily or
a weekly betting habit.
S1 (04:06):
Yeah. So would it be fair to say, in your view, David,
this really is a conviction matter. It's not one where
we could come down definitively based on God's Word and
one end or the other with regard to the entertainment
side of it.
S2 (04:18):
Yeah, I think so. I think we'd be hard pressed to,
you know, find a verse in Scripture that says, you know,
all sports betting is inherently immoral. Uh, but with that said, uh,
just given a wisdom stance, we want to realize that,
you know, that which may be permissible, uh, you know,
(04:39):
playing the lottery or, uh, simple entertainment sort of betting, uh,
occasion that those things can very easily turn into a
sinful habit. And so, again, just because it's permissible doesn't
mean it's it's wise and that we should all engage
in it.
S1 (04:55):
Yeah, well, we'll get into, you know, the industry behind it. And,
you know, when we're participating in it, we're essentially funding it.
And we have to think about that side of it.
We also need to think about kind of what this
looks like in our lives, and how we might apply
this based on what David's sharing with us today. We're
talking sports betting and gambling with David W Jones as
(05:16):
a part of our series on financial ethics. More to come.
Just around the corner. Stick around. So glad to have
you with us today on Faith and Finance live. We're
(05:37):
in the midst of a series on financial ethics. Today's
topic sports betting. Joining us to unpack this topic today,
Doctor David W Jones. He's senior professor of Christian ethics
at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. He's also the author of
Every Good Work. And David, before the break, you were
talking about the biblical foundation for this idea that we're
(06:00):
to be steady plotters, not seeking to get rich quick.
But another side of this conversation related to sports betting
and even gambling more generally, is around revealing what we worship.
What does the rising popularity of sports betting, even among believers,
say about what we treasure, in your view?
S2 (06:20):
Yeah, Robert, I think it's, um, you know, it's so
interesting just kind of to look at the unfolding phenomena
of sports betting in our country, and I think it reveals, um,
an idolatry, uh, of really both money and sports. Uh, and, uh,
perhaps along with that, we could say it's also showing
(06:40):
a profound discontentment with Christ, uh, among Christians, uh, who
might engage in a weekly or even daily sports betting habits.
And it kind of just shows that the heart really
is a factory of idols. Uh, and, um, maybe we
could even sort of say it like this. Um, you know,
(07:01):
the easy access that, uh, sports betting, um, affords to people,
which is really a recent phenomena, of course, with the
internet and websites and things. Um, I don't think it
actually created the idolatry of money or sports that we
see out there in our culture. I think it just
revealed the moral decay that was present all along. Uh,
(07:25):
and so in a, in a sense, um, you know, since, uh,
in God's grace, perhaps, uh, our idolatry of money and
sports has been revealed to us, perhaps we could take this, um,
phenomena of sports betting and actually use it, uh, and
the knowledge it's revealed, um, use it to draw us
closer to Christ.
S1 (07:46):
Mhm. Yeah, I think that's very helpful. What about from
a stewardship perspective? Everything belongs to God as we know
and talk about regularly here. That makes us stewards or
what you might translate, I guess, in the New Testament,
household managers of all that the King of Kings has.
And with that comes stewardship responsibilities. So what about that
side of using God's money and allocating it towards something
(08:09):
like even gambling for entertainment?
S2 (08:13):
Yeah. And so there's of course, there's nothing inherently wrong
with entertainment. And entertainment comes in all, all forms, but
we all recognize that there is that that charge in
Scripture that, you know, the earth is the Lord's and
everything that's contained therein. Uh, and, uh, we, his image bearers,
have been put here for a time. And as we're here, uh,
(08:35):
we need to steward that which the Lord owns. Uh,
and so I think before we spend money, um, really
on any type of entertainment, uh, enterprise, uh, you know,
whether it be something like sports betting or, you know,
even something like, you know, going to the movies or
other forms of entertainment. I think we always have to
ask ourselves is, is this good stewardship? Am I making
(08:59):
choices that both reflect my faith and that honor the Lord?
And we always want to take the path in life, um,
that optimally brings the most glory to God. So, you know,
maybe a question that's related is, you know, can somebody
engage in sports betting, uh, and bring glory to God? Well,
(09:21):
I think if I was inclined towards sports betting, I'd
want to work through that question.
S1 (09:27):
Yeah, I think you're exactly right. And that leads quickly
to the industry, because when we're buying into or waging
a bet, we're participating in an industry that is causing
harm to people. I mean, studies show that around 1
in 5 gambling addicts attempt suicide, and the American Psychological
Association reports that gambling addiction is now rising fastest among
(09:52):
young adults. So what role should the church play in
addressing that? And how do we think about participating in
an industry that's behind all of that?
S2 (10:02):
Yeah, I think just the, you know, the moral decay that, um,
sports gambling brings upon both individuals. And Rob, there, you
mentioned the suicide phenomena there, uh, as well as just
among those who are impacted, you know, by perhaps the,
the poor stewardship, uh, that comes, uh, with individuals who
(10:24):
are gambling away monies that could be used, uh, you know,
for better purposes. I think these things really ought to
get our attention. Uh, and, uh, they really ought to
be on the radar of the church. Uh, and, you know,
certainly I would encourage, um, those who are in church leadership, uh,
certainly to, to recognize, uh, this phenomenon in our culture
(10:44):
that that is sports betting. Uh, certainly to not be
afraid to speak out, um, about, uh, gambling. Uh, and
you know, as well, I think there is a place
for professional biblical counselors, uh, and I'm so thankful for
those who have been called into that vocation. Uh, and, uh, certainly, um,
(11:04):
there's a place there to help, uh, address those who
find themselves mired in, um, this phenomena of sports betting.
S1 (11:12):
Mhm. Yeah. Uh, just like last week when we looked
at the ethics of the lottery, we find the Bible
doesn't specifically mention gambling by name. So, David, why should
this matter to Christians? And let's finish with some biblical
principles that should shape the way we think about it.
S2 (11:27):
Yeah. You know, Matthew 624, uh, is a verse that
I know many believers are familiar with. Um, you know,
there Jesus says that no one can serve two masters
for either he will hate one and love the other,
or he'll be devoted to the one and despise the other.
You can't serve both God and money. And so I
think just sort of, you know, for believers, again, thinking
(11:50):
through that stewardship principle, uh, thinking through how, uh, best, uh,
can I, um, live as a faithful follower of Christ
here in the world? Um, you know, am I attempting
to serve two masters, uh, by engaging in gambling and
sports betting in the lottery? Uh, and, you know, those
those two issues, Rob, that have been kind of underlying
(12:10):
our discussion, uh, number one being idolatry, uh, and number
two being discontentment. Uh, I think those things are really
important heart questions, uh, that believers need to think through.
And so while sports betting, uh, it may be legal,
it doesn't necessarily mean it's moral. Uh, and even if
it's moral, it doesn't necessarily mean it's beneficial. Uh, and
(12:33):
so I think the person who, uh, you know, is
worshiping the wrong thing, uh, engaging in idolatry, seeking that
quick fix through a sports betting win, or the person
who is discontent and is worshiping the wrong thing. I
think these are red flags that ought to point us
back towards Christ. Point us back towards the worship of
(12:56):
the right thing. Uh, and again focusing upon the Lord
and his kingdom.
S1 (13:01):
David, we've got about a minute left. What's your encouragement
for listeners today? Someone who's hearing this conversation and perhaps
they're feeling a bit convicted about their habits.
S2 (13:10):
I think it's, uh, it's easy, especially, um, you know,
for younger people, uh, teens and, uh, you know, students
and perhaps folks in their 20s and 30s, it's easy
to get sucked into, um, to sports betting, but it's
important to, um, not forget, uh, you know, that, you know,
that sports betting, the lottery, gambling that, uh, these things
(13:30):
are not the unpardonable sin, uh, that regardless of where
we find ourselves first, John one nine always applies that
if we confess our sins that God is faithful and
just to forgive us of all of our unrighteousness. Yes.
And as a loving father, he's ever willing to have
us come to him to confess our wrongdoings. Uh, and,
you know, to receive us back. And one last verse
(13:53):
from Isaiah 26 three says that, um, you keep him
in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on you because
he trusts in you. Mm.
S1 (14:00):
It's well said. David, thank you for your time today.
This has been so helpful.
S2 (14:04):
Thank you. Rob.
S1 (14:05):
Folks, if you're struggling with this, seek accountability at your
local church. And if you have a gambling addiction, we
would strongly advise you to seek professional help. That was
David W Jones, senior professor of Christian ethics at Southeastern
Baptist Theological Seminary. Much more to come. Just around the corner.
Call right now 800 525 7000. We'll be right back.
S3 (14:34):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants are given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:58):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and finance.
Live I'm Rob West. Boy, what a great time with
Doctor Jones. I'll tell you, this is a really challenging issue,
one that we can't gloss over. It really is taking
off among this next generation, this idea of sports betting, uh,
creating some real challenges, as we talked about, uh, depression
(15:19):
is up, addiction to gambling is up significantly. And, um,
that goes directly along with just the acceptance in our
culture of this phenomenon. And we need to be talking
about it as the, the church. Uh, but also, I
think leaning in and relationships with the next generation so
that they understand really the dangers that go along with this. And,
(15:41):
you know, at its core, I think it really does
stem from, uh, the sin of greed, you know, that
whispers will finally be content if we earn just a
little bit more or save just a little bit more,
own a little more. The truth is, greed never satisfies.
It only fuels comparison and discontentment and overspending. And I
think that's clearly why Jesus warned, watch out. Be on
(16:02):
your guard against all kinds of greed. Life does not
consist in an abundance of possessions. You see, greed doesn't
just tempt tempt the wealthy. It really sneaks into our
hearts when we obsess over what we don't have or
hoard what we do. And I think clearly to really
combat that, it's about gratitude and generosity, because when we
(16:23):
intentionally give, we declare that money doesn't rule us. God does.
And so I think that's why it's so important as
Christ followers, as stewards of what God has entrusted to us, uh,
we hold it loosely, we give it generously. Not only
does that allow us to bless our neighbor and love
others well, participate in God's activity. It actually loosens the
grip of money over our lives. And I think that's
(16:44):
really a key idea here. All right, let's turn the
corner today and tackle whatever's on your mind. The rest
of the show is yours. We've got lines open. We're
ready for your calls and questions on anything financial. So
if you have a question right now, go ahead and
give us a call 800 525 7000. Again that number
800 525 7000. The the lines are open right now
(17:06):
but they will fill quickly. So give us a call.
Let's head to Frankfort, Illinois. Jerry, I understand you have
a testimony that relates to our opening topic today. Go
ahead sir.
S4 (17:17):
Yes. Rob. Yeah. Thanks so much for, you know, having
this topic today and making it, uh, aware to so many.
I was a former compulsive gambler that, you know, did
bet sports back in the day with me. I had
to go through a to a bookmaker because it was
before legal, you know, sports gambling. But yes, I, I
(17:38):
continue to, you know, work with you know, I'm still
in a program for gambling addiction. Years later, I've been
freed free of it now by the grace of God,
for 42 years. But the people I'm working with these
young guys today, it's it's, you know, I personally know
two people that have, you know, taken their lives because
of gambling. And, you know, Jerry, get the call from
(18:00):
their wives. Yeah. It's just heartbreaking. You know, and then also,
you know, right now with this sports gambling and all these,
you know, FanDuel and DraftKings and all that, these guys,
the numbers rob that they are betting and the amount
of bets you can make in one game. You know,
back in my day I could only bet the over
and under in a sports bet. Now you can bet
(18:22):
these guys are telling me, you know, you can make
bets on who's going to get the first hit, who's
going to hit, you know, odds on home runs. They
start the game over like a baseball game in the
fifth inning. So, you know, it's just an enormous attraction.
And once they get hooked, they get hooked badly. In fact,
I've got two guys now that have expressed to me
that they're waking up at two in the morning with
(18:43):
the urge to bet, and they're having to bet they're
betting tennis or ping pong matches in China, and they
don't even know who these who these people are because
they need the action so bad. So it's a you know,
the sports betting is, is is blown, you know, wide open.
And it's just really, you know, anybody that gets into it.
I'm so happy that you've addressed it from a, you know,
(19:05):
just the addiction standpoint. But also for myself personally, I
know if I were to go back to gamble, gamble,
it would be a sin because I believe it violates
three of the Ten Commandments. And in fact, I know
you had mentioned on the program there might not be
any particular scripture, but, you know, even the first one,
thou shalt not have no other gods before me, you know,
(19:28):
basically in Isaiah 30 113, it's a God reprimanded the
Israelites for going to Egypt for help. Egypt Egypt is
a symbolic of the world system. Instead of trusting God
to take care of them and meet their needs, the
Israelites are looking for a world system to help so they,
you know, it's a lack of trust in God and
(19:49):
you know it. It's really saying, you know, God. I,
you know, want to make money the fast way and
like you already touched upon without working on that, but
it always leads in most people that I'm talking to
on a daily basis and in meetings with, uh, to destruction,
destruction in their life. So it's a, it's a topic
that it's prevalent in the youth today in the church.
(20:12):
And in fact, I you know, I've personally known people,
Christians that go to church, sit in the pews on
Sunday and they're under so much guilt and shame because
they they cannot even put a dollar in the offering.
In fact, they're struggling to put milk and eggs in
the refrigerator with young kids at home. And that's how
bad things are. You know, in the hidden, hidden form
(20:34):
of gambling, because it's unlike alcohol or drugs where you
see somebody stumbling or, you know, the face, the eyes
or something that, you know, drugs which show that they're
hooked on drugs. But gambling is a secret secret of addiction.
And you're sitting with people in the churches today that
are really hooked on this. So thanks so much for
exposing it for what it really is, you know.
S1 (20:55):
Well, Jerry, I mean, you speak from experience. I'm so
thankful for your testimony and the fact that you're now
not only, you know, are you recovering, uh, addicted gambler,
but now you're investing in others that are headed down
this same path. And, uh, boy, God will use your testimony.
He is using it. And I'm so grateful that you
shared with us, you know, this explosive growth. I mean,
(21:16):
there's no better example of what's going on than DraftKings.
They've grown from 600 million in revenue in 2020 to
5 billion in in just over four years. That's a 74%
annual growth rate. And I think that's just a small
picture of what's going on here. And we need to
put up the warning flags. We need to be talking
to the next generation, and we need to get back
(21:38):
to God's Word and make God our ultimate treasure. Nothing else. Jerry.
Appreciate your call, my friend. Lord bless you. And, um, boy,
I'm confident God will use your story in somebody's life today.
Thank you sir. We'll be right back. So glad you're
(22:03):
with us today on Faith in finance. Live here on
Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions.
We do have a few lines open. You'd like to
be a part of the program today. Call right now.
800 525 7000. Again, that number 800 525 7000. Uh,
let's head back to the phones. Uh, Illinois is where
we're headed next. Antoinette, how can I serve you?
S5 (22:25):
Yes. God bless you and your mission. I have a question.
I have a son that he's a teenager. He's in 20.
He's 22, 23 years old. Um, but, um, he's graduating
from college this year, and he'll be starting his job
next year. Um, but I just have a question regarding, uh,
(22:47):
like a planned retirement for him. What can I advise
him on? Um, maybe having his own private investment in that,
besides whatever he will have from whatever he'll be working?
S1 (23:01):
Yes. Well, there's no doubt that the best retirement account
for a young adult, uh, is going to be a
Roth IRA. Roth IRA, um, so long as he has
earned income, meaning income from a job, uh, then he
can open up and contribute to a Roth up to $7,000, Dollars,
(23:22):
as long as he has at least $7,000 in earned
income for the year. The reason the Roth IRA is
so attractive is he's he's going to earn the money,
he's going to pay tax on it, and then he's
going to make his contribution to his Roth IRA anytime
before he files his 2025 return. So up as late
as April of 2026, he can make the the contribution
(23:45):
for 2025. That's after tax dollars going in. So he
doesn't get a deduction. But the amount that he deposits
and then invests is able to grow over the next
let's say 40 years until retirement, however long that is.
And all that growth from the investments is going to
be taken out as a withdrawal in retirement whenever he
(24:07):
wants 100% tax free. And that is a significant opportunity.
The other thing is because he's putting in after tax dollars,
it's more powerful, even for teens and young adults, because
they're likely to be in a low tax bracket because
they're in the very early part of their working life
and therefore they don't have as much income as maybe
(24:28):
they would have, you know, in their in their 40s
and 50s. So they pay little or no tax now.
They get all this tax free growth between now and retirement.
And then they pull it out tax free. Uh, also
the contributions, not the earnings, but the contributions can be
withdrawn at any time for any reason without penalty. And
you can use a portion of it up to 10,000
(24:50):
for a first home purchase or education or even emergencies.
So there's real opportunities there. And, you know, they're very
easy to open. I would probably open it at at
Charles Schwab or Fidelity. Both get very high ratings on
customer service, wonderful access to a wide range of investments.
And I think that could be exactly what you're looking for.
(25:12):
Is that helpful, Antoinette?
S5 (25:14):
Yes. But my other question. What about if his income
will be exceeding like 35, 40,000 a year.
S1 (25:22):
Uh. That's okay. Yeah. Um, so are you talking about
the the income cap for a Roth IRA?
S5 (25:29):
No, no, no, I'm saying his actual earnings because he's
going to be a nurse. So, you know, they get
paid pretty good. Okay.
S1 (25:38):
But that's not going to stand in the way of
him contributing to a Roth IRA. Um, he wouldn't lose
his ability to contribute to a Roth. Um, as long
as he has income of less than $146,000 for the year,
as long as he's under 146,000, he can contribute to that.
Roth up to $7,000.
S5 (26:00):
Okay. But then, um, is there something that he does
contribute but would deduct from his earnings and that would
be helping him?
S1 (26:08):
Yeah. He could instead put the money into a traditional IRA.
He doesn't have a retirement plan available at work.
S5 (26:17):
Well, he's not starting until next year, so.
S1 (26:19):
Got it. Got it.
S5 (26:22):
This year.
S1 (26:22):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean he could certainly put it in
a traditional IRA and then he would get a deduction.
But I would submit Antoinette that even though he doesn't
get the deduction because of his age, because he's so young,
he will benefit far more, uh, in the long run
from an after tax contribution to a Roth because of
(26:42):
the tax free growth, then he will benefit from the
current year tax deduction right now. So even though he's
not going to get the deduction for the Roth, I
would still recommend that he do the Roth just because
of the reasons I mentioned. But if really the focus
was getting a deduction in addition to putting the money
away for retirement, then he could choose the traditional IRA instead.
S5 (27:04):
Yeah. So you're saying with Iraq, it would be at
when he wants to withdraw? It won't be, um, he
won't have to pay any taxes on it. If he was.
S1 (27:14):
Right, he would have already paid the tax on the
original contribution, but all of the growth. So if it
compounds because you invest it or he invests it in
some high quality stock mutual funds and they grow for
the next 40 years, let's say it, you know, it
grows an average of 8% a year. All that growth,
which is compounding its growth on top of growth, on
(27:35):
top of growth, all that growth is going to be
taken out tax free in retirement.
S5 (27:40):
You won't have to pay taxes for from the growth.
S1 (27:44):
That's right.
S5 (27:45):
Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Yeah I understand. Yeah.
S6 (27:48):
Very good. Thank you for your help.
S1 (27:50):
All right. Thank you for your call today. Hey, I
want to send you a book that I think will
be helpful to, uh, your either your son or your grandson.
I can't remember which, but it's called the Sound Mind
Investing Handbook, and it really will give him a good
understanding of investing, but from a biblical worldview. So you
stand the line, Antoinette, we're going to send you that
as our gift today. You pass it along to him
(28:11):
and tell him we said we're we're proud of him
for thinking about investing early in his working career. Thanks
for your call. Uh. Let's see. We're going to head
to Indianapolis next. Hi, James. Go ahead.
S7 (28:22):
Yeah. Hey, thanks so much. I love the show. And
thanks for being there for you. God bless you. Thank you.
I'll be. I'll be brief. So do you agree with
me that you feel that the, uh, housing market is
getting ready to turn in 2008? And the reason why
I say that is in Indiana alone, the, uh, the
the houses are being developed even right next to me
(28:44):
in a pretty good neighborhood. But they're being developed by
5 to 10,000 more houses in the next six months.
Already have the numbers and the the people building them,
but only only 10% of Indiana Hoosiers make over 100,000
a year. So we have all these houses being built,
the ones that are built right now, the people are
(29:04):
moving into. They don't have furniture. They have, uh, no
windows in the back. And it just feels like we're
headed in the wrong direction. And I'm not a person
to see the sky fall. But I was a mortgage
broker in 2008. I saw firsthand, and I feel what
people don't understand that there's a high number of foreclosures
right now and a high number of repossessions right now.
(29:26):
And I don't know why the alarms aren't being sounded.
Am I off track or do you agree?
S1 (29:32):
Uh, I don't agree with the premise nationally. I mean,
that doesn't mean there wouldn't be pockets in the country
where there could be a certain phenomenon going on. But
the bottom line is, overall inventory nationally remains historically low. Um,
which is going to continue to keep that upward pressure
(29:53):
on prices in most areas now. More listings are coming, uh,
which has improved buyer leverage, especially in newer, higher inventory regions.
And you may be one of those, uh, but but
pretty much all economists are saying they expect continued modest
growth into 25 and 26. No one's really calling for
(30:15):
a crash. You know what we saw with the Great
Recession in 2000, 2008, 2009, that was a systemic problem
with the banking and credit industry, with credit standards and
reserve requirements and lending practices that were out of whack.
That has all been resolved. The banks are in a
much different place. The lending standards have changed. So just
(30:39):
given the fact that even though interest rates are still high,
pretty much no one is is calling for a crash
by any means, perhaps a slowdown. But even this, I
think it's still a modest increase going forward. We'll be
right back. Thanks for your call. Thanks for joining us
(31:00):
today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We're
taking your calls and questions today. Before the break, we
were talking to James. I was up against a hard
stop there for that break. Let me just kind of
recap James James asked a great question. And that is,
you know, he's saying, listen, based on what I'm seeing
in my area, I think we're overbuilding. I'm seeing homes
perhaps priced out of what most people can afford in
(31:22):
my area. I've got a lot of, you know, sitting empty.
Are we headed for something that might be like 2008, 2009?
My answer was no. And let me just explain why.
You know, I think there's a few key reasons. Number
one would be the tight housing supply. So even with
inventory rising, it's getting better. We're still below pre-pandemic levels
(31:45):
because homebuilders underbuilt for over a decade after the 2008 crash.
Best estimates are today from from a consensus of economists
that I've seen, we're about a million units short for
the demand. In terms of homes in the US today, uh,
two would be strong homeowner equity. Um, most homeowners today
(32:06):
have substantial equity. So nearly half of U.S. homes right
now are owned free and clear. Many others have low
fixed rate mortgages. Here's why that matters. And this is
why it's unlike 2008. See, we don't have a bubble
of risky adjustable rate loans like we had then. Most
mortgages today are fixed rate and affordable. Even though rates
(32:28):
have risen, most people are still at at low interest rates.
So we're we're not going to be in a situation,
you know, where we're going to have a wave of
forced sales even in an economic downturn. The third thing
and I mentioned this lending standards are much tighter today
after 2008, 2009. Um, and so today's buyers are better qualified.
(32:50):
Banks require higher credit scores, down payments, verified income. That's
a big contrast to the subprime crisis from 2008 2009. Um, also,
the demographic demand millions of millennials and Gen Zers are
entering prime home buying years. That's going to support prices
and the activity. So I think the bottom line is,
(33:10):
you know, even though this could vary by certain pockets
in the country, at least nationally, most economists think we're
in pretty good shape with our housing market. Despite the
dramatic run up, we could see a tapering off of that.
But probably we're still going to see, at least for
the next couple of years, you know, modest increases, certainly
not a crash and probably not even any decline. So
(33:33):
hopefully that gives you some things to think about there.
Before we head back to the phones, we did have
a caller, um, Gloria, who was not able to be
on the air with us, but she wanted to know, uh,
whether it's a good idea to get life insurance for
children and grandchildren. And, you know, this question does come
up periodically, and it's a good one, I think, just
related to, you know, whether or not that's wise, uh,
(33:56):
as you think about being a steward of God's resources.
And I would just say, you know, generally, no, that's
not my advice. Um, I just think it's unnecessary. You know, uh,
when we look at the purpose of insurance, the purpose
of insurance is to replace income or to offset the
(34:16):
risk that exists in the passing of a person where
dependents are counting on their income. So can kids generally
don't have income to replace, which is the core purpose
of life insurance. And so I think the bottom line is, um,
you know, that's, you know, not, I think, a necessary
(34:36):
use of God's resources. Um, and beyond that, uh, if
you're really looking for, you know, giving a small legacy gift,
I think there's other ways or better tools, I might say,
where you could save to be a blessing to a
child far better than, you know, a whole life insurance
policy where you're mixing a death benefit with a savings
(34:59):
vehicle that can be expensive and complicated. I'd rather see
you do just a straight investment account in your name,
but earmarked for the child with some good, high quality
growth mutual funds and just let it grow. You could
do a 529 college savings plan, but in terms of the,
you know, the the insurance, I just don't think, you
(35:19):
know that, that it's necessary. You know, people might say
it insures guaranteed insurability because the child is healthy, but,
you know, the likelihood they'd be uninsurable as adults is
just so low. Um, number two, because of a legacy gift, again,
I think there's other ways to do it. Third would
be in a tragic case of, you know, where a
(35:41):
small policy could cover funeral costs. This is really more
about peace of mind than financial necessity. Most people have
the resources. And again, still a very, you know, low
probability of that happening. So I would just say at
the end of the day, I just don't see it
as something as necessary. Gloria, I appreciate your call today
and I hope that helps you. Let's go to Chicago. Donna,
(36:03):
how can I help you?
S8 (36:06):
Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Um, so we
have a situation, um, from my husband's first marriage. He
has a son, and he has a small family. And
he has a hard time keeping a job. And he tries,
but they let him go for whatever reason. Um, so
(36:28):
then she works, and they're behind on their bills. So
in that often. But occasionally he'll call up and he'll
ask for money. And my husband, he helps him out.
But then we know that they are partying. They they're
not believers. We know that they they probably buy some
(36:51):
pot cigarettes, which is very expensive. And we just know
that if they were to cut these items from their list,
they could probably have a lot more comfortable way of living. So, um,
he has a tendency sometimes to manipulate my husband. He'll.
He'll call him and tell him that they're going to
(37:13):
lose their home, which they might. They might and then
say that the kids are going to be, you know,
sort of the kids are going to be living on
the street. And so my husband gets torn and doesn't
know what to do. So I've wanted to call for
some time now. Um, because we just really need some
biblical guidance. He won't take advice. Um, and then he
gets mad and he won't talk to my husband. So
(37:35):
we just need some some wise counsel because we want
to help them. But we also know that that they're
spending their money unwisely. And so we don't want to
enable that. So hopefully you can say a prayer and
just give us some some sound advice, you know.
S1 (37:53):
Well, I'd be delighted to. And I and I know
this one is challenging because we love our kids. We
certainly don't want to see them suffer and we want
to be a blessing to them. And especially if you
have the ability to do that, you have the means
to provide. It's hard to resist. And yet and I think,
you know, this, I'm kind of hearing it a bit
in your voice, but I'll just affirm and perhaps verbalize
(38:13):
what I think you're already thinking. And that is, you know,
you can do far more harm by continuing to provide
resources which decrease, which increases dependency, and supports unwise lifestyle choices.
So you're basically by continuing to provide your hard earned
(38:34):
money to this adult child, you are encouraging bad financial habits.
And from a spiritual perspective, you're throwing money at a
struggling child, which is shielding your your adult son from hardship,
which may absolutely be the way that the Lord is
going to get his attention. And so, you know, I
(38:56):
think you just need to be really careful and thoughtful
about this. And I think there are other ways to help.
You know, I think, you know, you and your husband
need to be on the same page. You need to
sit down before you go to the adult son and
have the conversation and make sure you all are aligned
and really make it a matter of prayer. Um, but
(39:16):
you know, if you do go and offer some assistance,
it needs to be tied to, uh, you really helping
to support and reinforce wise decision making, you know? So,
you know, it could be something like, um, you know,
if you pay toward debt, will, you know, match it, um,
(39:37):
you know, things like that that are reinforcing the right behaviors.
It could be, you know, you're willing to help with
a certain outcome, especially if there's grandkids involved. Um, you know,
but it's going to be directly to, you know, you're
going to pay the bill directly, not just giving the
cash because, you know, that may be used for. In fact,
you have good, you know, reason to believe it's being
(39:59):
used for things that would not be in alignment with
biblical values. And so you make that, you know, check
directly out to that particular entity or, you know, helping
with that bill. All of that could be predicated on this, son,
you know, walking with a certified Christian financial counselor. You know,
maybe there needs to be a third party here. You
(40:20):
all don't need to be the accountability here. But, you know,
perhaps your willingness to help in the future could be
tied to, you know, them providing, you know, walking along
with somebody that they're accountable to and that person, if
they'll if your son will give you permission, you know,
being willing to check in with you along the way
and say, hey, here's how it's going. Now, at the
(40:40):
end of the day, could this go sideways? And it it,
you know, provide a wedge in the relationship? Yes. Could
it mean that, you know, they he stops talking to
your your husband for a period of time? Absolutely. And
that's hard. But I think the last thing we would
want to do is continue to provide help. That is
not going to allow the Lord to get his attention
to the extent he wants to do that, and this
(41:02):
is the way to do it. It's not going to
reinforce any kind of wise financial decision making and stewardship
in the future, because there's no reason to make any
kind of change. We're shielding him from, you know, the
consequences of mismanagement and unwise decision making. And the longer
you do that, the longer it's going to take for
(41:25):
him to learn from this surrender his life to Jesus,
which is far more important than anything. Put him as
the King and the Lord of his life and his money,
and then begin to he, you know, heed wise counsel
from God's Word about how to manage what's left. Does
that make sense, though?
S8 (41:43):
Yes, yes it does. Thank you.
S1 (41:45):
Okay. That's hard. You know, this is not easy. And
I think, you know, what it means is we we
make this a matter of prayer. You know, I think
you need to clarify your financial expectations. I think, you know,
you may decide to exercise tough love here. And that's
probably just given the history of this and how long
(42:07):
it's going on and what you're experiencing. I think perhaps
the next season is about saying, listen, we love you.
We just can't continue to support the decisions you're making. Um,
and so we need to to stop for this time.
And that may have relational consequences, but I think you
can rest in the fact that, you know, our main
(42:28):
objective is that he'd surrender his life to the Lord.
And then the financial decision making based on God's Word
would follow. Donna, thanks for your call today. We'll be
praying for you. Let us know how it turns out.
Faith and finance lives of partnership between Moody Radio and
Faith fi, Omar, Tahera, Rihanna and Jim were serving us today.
Thanks for being here. We'll see you tomorrow.
Keep your life free from the love of money and
be content with what you have. For he has said,
I will never leave you nor forsake you. Hebrews 13 five. Hi,
I'm Rob West. Sports betting is more popular and more
accepted than ever, even among Christians. But is it just
harmless fun or something more? Doctor David W Jones joins
us today in our series on financial ethics to examine
(00:31):
what Scripture says about gambling and how believers should think
about it. And then it's on to your calls at
800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. This is faith
and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well,
we're honored to have Doctor David W Jones back with
(00:52):
us again today. He's a senior professor of Christian ethics
at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and the author of Every
Good Thing, which explores wealth, stewardship and poverty from a
biblical worldview. And I highly recommend it. David, great to
have you back with us.
S2 (01:07):
Hey, Rob, it's good to be here.
S1 (01:09):
David. As a part of our ongoing financial ethics series,
we looked at the ethics of giving to the homeless
and playing the lottery. Today we're turning to sports betting,
now legal in over 30 states with more than 100
billion wagered annually. That's according to the American Gaming Association. David.
For many, it seems like harmless entertainment. But before we
(01:32):
get into the practical concerns, what does Scripture reveal about
the heart behind gambling and sports betting?
S2 (01:39):
You know, Rob, even as we, uh, we talked about,
you know, last week in our discussion of the lottery,
we see some of the some of the same foundations,
some of the same biblical themes. Um, Proverbs 1311 comes
to my mind, uh, where Solomon writes that wealth gained
hastily will dwindle, but whoever gains little by little will
increase it. And so again, it's just that idea that
(02:02):
if we if we flourish, if we have a large
jackpot that we get through sports betting and it's gained hastily,
it's probably not going to last because it's a violation
of that divinely designed plan that we actually work in
order to flourish. Another verse that comes to mind, uh,
first Timothy six nine. Uh, Paul says, but those who
(02:23):
desire to be rich will fall into temptation, into a snare,
into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into
ruin and destruction. And so, Paul, they were just talking
about the importance of having a a heart that's not
focused overly on money, uh, but rather views money as
(02:43):
a tool, uh, simply to live in this material world.
S1 (02:47):
Yeah. I think that's really helpful and so important to
establish a biblical foundation for our discussion today. Uh, David,
as we begin to talk practically about this, let's clarify
some terms. What's the difference, in your view, between gambling
and simply spending money on entertainment like a vacation? Or
perhaps where it becomes less clear when someone gambles a
(03:08):
set amount of money for fun in Las Vegas?
S2 (03:12):
Yeah, Rob, I think we could define gambling along these lines.
It's akin to wagering money with hopes of a future
inquiries on an event with an uncertain outcome that's primarily
determined by chance. So things like, um, you know, like
sports betting or even buying a lottery ticket, um, maybe
(03:32):
playing a casino game, something along those lines, uh, you know,
whereas if we were to say, well, what about just, um,
an occasional, um, foray into gambling, maybe you, uh, you
wager in the, uh, the March Madness bracket in the
office pool just for entertainment? Um, I think that that
a difference there, uh, might be that we're comparing maybe
(03:55):
sort of one time passing entertainment with, uh, chronic idolatry
of money that might be characterized by a daily or
a weekly betting habit.
S1 (04:06):
Yeah. So would it be fair to say, in your view, David,
this really is a conviction matter. It's not one where
we could come down definitively based on God's Word and
one end or the other with regard to the entertainment
side of it.
S2 (04:18):
Yeah, I think so. I think we'd be hard pressed to,
you know, find a verse in Scripture that says, you know,
all sports betting is inherently immoral. Uh, but with that said, uh,
just given a wisdom stance, we want to realize that,
you know, that which may be permissible, uh, you know,
(04:39):
playing the lottery or, uh, simple entertainment sort of betting, uh,
occasion that those things can very easily turn into a
sinful habit. And so, again, just because it's permissible doesn't
mean it's it's wise and that we should all engage
in it.
S1 (04:55):
Yeah, well, we'll get into, you know, the industry behind it. And,
you know, when we're participating in it, we're essentially funding it.
And we have to think about that side of it.
We also need to think about kind of what this
looks like in our lives, and how we might apply
this based on what David's sharing with us today. We're
talking sports betting and gambling with David W Jones as
(05:16):
a part of our series on financial ethics. More to come.
Just around the corner. Stick around. So glad to have
you with us today on Faith and Finance live. We're
(05:37):
in the midst of a series on financial ethics. Today's
topic sports betting. Joining us to unpack this topic today,
Doctor David W Jones. He's senior professor of Christian ethics
at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. He's also the author of
Every Good Work. And David, before the break, you were
talking about the biblical foundation for this idea that we're
(06:00):
to be steady plotters, not seeking to get rich quick.
But another side of this conversation related to sports betting
and even gambling more generally, is around revealing what we worship.
What does the rising popularity of sports betting, even among believers,
say about what we treasure, in your view?
S2 (06:20):
Yeah, Robert, I think it's, um, you know, it's so
interesting just kind of to look at the unfolding phenomena
of sports betting in our country, and I think it reveals, um,
an idolatry, uh, of really both money and sports. Uh, and, uh,
perhaps along with that, we could say it's also showing
(06:40):
a profound discontentment with Christ, uh, among Christians, uh, who
might engage in a weekly or even daily sports betting habits.
And it kind of just shows that the heart really
is a factory of idols. Uh, and, um, maybe we
could even sort of say it like this. Um, you know,
(07:01):
the easy access that, uh, sports betting, um, affords to people,
which is really a recent phenomena, of course, with the
internet and websites and things. Um, I don't think it
actually created the idolatry of money or sports that we
see out there in our culture. I think it just
revealed the moral decay that was present all along. Uh,
(07:25):
and so in a, in a sense, um, you know, since, uh,
in God's grace, perhaps, uh, our idolatry of money and
sports has been revealed to us, perhaps we could take this, um,
phenomena of sports betting and actually use it, uh, and
the knowledge it's revealed, um, use it to draw us
closer to Christ.
S1 (07:46):
Mhm. Yeah, I think that's very helpful. What about from
a stewardship perspective? Everything belongs to God as we know
and talk about regularly here. That makes us stewards or
what you might translate, I guess, in the New Testament,
household managers of all that the King of Kings has.
And with that comes stewardship responsibilities. So what about that
side of using God's money and allocating it towards something
(08:09):
like even gambling for entertainment?
S2 (08:13):
Yeah. And so there's of course, there's nothing inherently wrong
with entertainment. And entertainment comes in all, all forms, but
we all recognize that there is that that charge in
Scripture that, you know, the earth is the Lord's and
everything that's contained therein. Uh, and, uh, we, his image bearers,
have been put here for a time. And as we're here, uh,
(08:35):
we need to steward that which the Lord owns. Uh,
and so I think before we spend money, um, really
on any type of entertainment, uh, enterprise, uh, you know,
whether it be something like sports betting or, you know,
even something like, you know, going to the movies or
other forms of entertainment. I think we always have to
ask ourselves is, is this good stewardship? Am I making
(08:59):
choices that both reflect my faith and that honor the Lord?
And we always want to take the path in life, um,
that optimally brings the most glory to God. So, you know,
maybe a question that's related is, you know, can somebody
engage in sports betting, uh, and bring glory to God? Well,
(09:21):
I think if I was inclined towards sports betting, I'd
want to work through that question.
S1 (09:27):
Yeah, I think you're exactly right. And that leads quickly
to the industry, because when we're buying into or waging
a bet, we're participating in an industry that is causing
harm to people. I mean, studies show that around 1
in 5 gambling addicts attempt suicide, and the American Psychological
Association reports that gambling addiction is now rising fastest among
(09:52):
young adults. So what role should the church play in
addressing that? And how do we think about participating in
an industry that's behind all of that?
S2 (10:02):
Yeah, I think just the, you know, the moral decay that, um,
sports gambling brings upon both individuals. And Rob, there, you
mentioned the suicide phenomena there, uh, as well as just
among those who are impacted, you know, by perhaps the,
the poor stewardship, uh, that comes, uh, with individuals who
(10:24):
are gambling away monies that could be used, uh, you know,
for better purposes. I think these things really ought to
get our attention. Uh, and, uh, they really ought to
be on the radar of the church. Uh, and, you know,
certainly I would encourage, um, those who are in church leadership, uh,
certainly to, to recognize, uh, this phenomenon in our culture
(10:44):
that that is sports betting. Uh, certainly to not be
afraid to speak out, um, about, uh, gambling. Uh, and
you know, as well, I think there is a place
for professional biblical counselors, uh, and I'm so thankful for
those who have been called into that vocation. Uh, and, uh, certainly, um,
(11:04):
there's a place there to help, uh, address those who
find themselves mired in, um, this phenomena of sports betting.
S1 (11:12):
Mhm. Yeah. Uh, just like last week when we looked
at the ethics of the lottery, we find the Bible
doesn't specifically mention gambling by name. So, David, why should
this matter to Christians? And let's finish with some biblical
principles that should shape the way we think about it.
S2 (11:27):
Yeah. You know, Matthew 624, uh, is a verse that
I know many believers are familiar with. Um, you know,
there Jesus says that no one can serve two masters
for either he will hate one and love the other,
or he'll be devoted to the one and despise the other.
You can't serve both God and money. And so I
think just sort of, you know, for believers, again, thinking
(11:50):
through that stewardship principle, uh, thinking through how, uh, best, uh,
can I, um, live as a faithful follower of Christ
here in the world? Um, you know, am I attempting
to serve two masters, uh, by engaging in gambling and
sports betting in the lottery? Uh, and, you know, those
those two issues, Rob, that have been kind of underlying
(12:10):
our discussion, uh, number one being idolatry, uh, and number
two being discontentment. Uh, I think those things are really
important heart questions, uh, that believers need to think through.
And so while sports betting, uh, it may be legal,
it doesn't necessarily mean it's moral. Uh, and even if
it's moral, it doesn't necessarily mean it's beneficial. Uh, and
(12:33):
so I think the person who, uh, you know, is
worshiping the wrong thing, uh, engaging in idolatry, seeking that
quick fix through a sports betting win, or the person
who is discontent and is worshiping the wrong thing. I
think these are red flags that ought to point us
back towards Christ. Point us back towards the worship of
(12:56):
the right thing. Uh, and again focusing upon the Lord
and his kingdom.
S1 (13:01):
David, we've got about a minute left. What's your encouragement
for listeners today? Someone who's hearing this conversation and perhaps
they're feeling a bit convicted about their habits.
S2 (13:10):
I think it's, uh, it's easy, especially, um, you know,
for younger people, uh, teens and, uh, you know, students
and perhaps folks in their 20s and 30s, it's easy
to get sucked into, um, to sports betting, but it's
important to, um, not forget, uh, you know, that, you know,
that sports betting, the lottery, gambling that, uh, these things
(13:30):
are not the unpardonable sin, uh, that regardless of where
we find ourselves first, John one nine always applies that
if we confess our sins that God is faithful and
just to forgive us of all of our unrighteousness. Yes.
And as a loving father, he's ever willing to have
us come to him to confess our wrongdoings. Uh, and,
you know, to receive us back. And one last verse
(13:53):
from Isaiah 26 three says that, um, you keep him
in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on you because
he trusts in you. Mm.
S1 (14:00):
It's well said. David, thank you for your time today.
This has been so helpful.
S2 (14:04):
Thank you. Rob.
S1 (14:05):
Folks, if you're struggling with this, seek accountability at your
local church. And if you have a gambling addiction, we
would strongly advise you to seek professional help. That was
David W Jones, senior professor of Christian ethics at Southeastern
Baptist Theological Seminary. Much more to come. Just around the corner.
Call right now 800 525 7000. We'll be right back.
S3 (14:34):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants are given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:58):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and finance.
Live I'm Rob West. Boy, what a great time with
Doctor Jones. I'll tell you, this is a really challenging issue,
one that we can't gloss over. It really is taking
off among this next generation, this idea of sports betting, uh,
creating some real challenges, as we talked about, uh, depression
(15:19):
is up, addiction to gambling is up significantly. And, um,
that goes directly along with just the acceptance in our
culture of this phenomenon. And we need to be talking
about it as the, the church. Uh, but also, I
think leaning in and relationships with the next generation so
that they understand really the dangers that go along with this. And,
(15:41):
you know, at its core, I think it really does
stem from, uh, the sin of greed, you know, that
whispers will finally be content if we earn just a
little bit more or save just a little bit more,
own a little more. The truth is, greed never satisfies.
It only fuels comparison and discontentment and overspending. And I
think that's clearly why Jesus warned, watch out. Be on
(16:02):
your guard against all kinds of greed. Life does not
consist in an abundance of possessions. You see, greed doesn't
just tempt tempt the wealthy. It really sneaks into our
hearts when we obsess over what we don't have or
hoard what we do. And I think clearly to really
combat that, it's about gratitude and generosity, because when we
(16:23):
intentionally give, we declare that money doesn't rule us. God does.
And so I think that's why it's so important as
Christ followers, as stewards of what God has entrusted to us, uh,
we hold it loosely, we give it generously. Not only
does that allow us to bless our neighbor and love
others well, participate in God's activity. It actually loosens the
grip of money over our lives. And I think that's
(16:44):
really a key idea here. All right, let's turn the
corner today and tackle whatever's on your mind. The rest
of the show is yours. We've got lines open. We're
ready for your calls and questions on anything financial. So
if you have a question right now, go ahead and
give us a call 800 525 7000. Again that number
800 525 7000. The the lines are open right now
(17:06):
but they will fill quickly. So give us a call.
Let's head to Frankfort, Illinois. Jerry, I understand you have
a testimony that relates to our opening topic today. Go
ahead sir.
S4 (17:17):
Yes. Rob. Yeah. Thanks so much for, you know, having
this topic today and making it, uh, aware to so many.
I was a former compulsive gambler that, you know, did
bet sports back in the day with me. I had
to go through a to a bookmaker because it was
before legal, you know, sports gambling. But yes, I, I
(17:38):
continue to, you know, work with you know, I'm still
in a program for gambling addiction. Years later, I've been
freed free of it now by the grace of God,
for 42 years. But the people I'm working with these
young guys today, it's it's, you know, I personally know
two people that have, you know, taken their lives because
of gambling. And, you know, Jerry, get the call from
(18:00):
their wives. Yeah. It's just heartbreaking. You know, and then also,
you know, right now with this sports gambling and all these,
you know, FanDuel and DraftKings and all that, these guys,
the numbers rob that they are betting and the amount
of bets you can make in one game. You know,
back in my day I could only bet the over
and under in a sports bet. Now you can bet
(18:22):
these guys are telling me, you know, you can make
bets on who's going to get the first hit, who's
going to hit, you know, odds on home runs. They
start the game over like a baseball game in the
fifth inning. So, you know, it's just an enormous attraction.
And once they get hooked, they get hooked badly. In fact,
I've got two guys now that have expressed to me
that they're waking up at two in the morning with
(18:43):
the urge to bet, and they're having to bet they're
betting tennis or ping pong matches in China, and they
don't even know who these who these people are because
they need the action so bad. So it's a you know,
the sports betting is, is is blown, you know, wide open.
And it's just really, you know, anybody that gets into it.
I'm so happy that you've addressed it from a, you know,
(19:05):
just the addiction standpoint. But also for myself personally, I
know if I were to go back to gamble, gamble,
it would be a sin because I believe it violates
three of the Ten Commandments. And in fact, I know
you had mentioned on the program there might not be
any particular scripture, but, you know, even the first one,
thou shalt not have no other gods before me, you know,
(19:28):
basically in Isaiah 30 113, it's a God reprimanded the
Israelites for going to Egypt for help. Egypt Egypt is
a symbolic of the world system. Instead of trusting God
to take care of them and meet their needs, the
Israelites are looking for a world system to help so they,
you know, it's a lack of trust in God and
(19:49):
you know it. It's really saying, you know, God. I,
you know, want to make money the fast way and
like you already touched upon without working on that, but
it always leads in most people that I'm talking to
on a daily basis and in meetings with, uh, to destruction,
destruction in their life. So it's a, it's a topic
that it's prevalent in the youth today in the church.
(20:12):
And in fact, I you know, I've personally known people,
Christians that go to church, sit in the pews on
Sunday and they're under so much guilt and shame because
they they cannot even put a dollar in the offering.
In fact, they're struggling to put milk and eggs in
the refrigerator with young kids at home. And that's how
bad things are. You know, in the hidden, hidden form
(20:34):
of gambling, because it's unlike alcohol or drugs where you
see somebody stumbling or, you know, the face, the eyes
or something that, you know, drugs which show that they're
hooked on drugs. But gambling is a secret secret of addiction.
And you're sitting with people in the churches today that
are really hooked on this. So thanks so much for
exposing it for what it really is, you know.
S1 (20:55):
Well, Jerry, I mean, you speak from experience. I'm so
thankful for your testimony and the fact that you're now
not only, you know, are you recovering, uh, addicted gambler,
but now you're investing in others that are headed down
this same path. And, uh, boy, God will use your testimony.
He is using it. And I'm so grateful that you
shared with us, you know, this explosive growth. I mean,
(21:16):
there's no better example of what's going on than DraftKings.
They've grown from 600 million in revenue in 2020 to
5 billion in in just over four years. That's a 74%
annual growth rate. And I think that's just a small
picture of what's going on here. And we need to
put up the warning flags. We need to be talking
to the next generation, and we need to get back
(21:38):
to God's Word and make God our ultimate treasure. Nothing else. Jerry.
Appreciate your call, my friend. Lord bless you. And, um, boy,
I'm confident God will use your story in somebody's life today.
Thank you sir. We'll be right back. So glad you're
(22:03):
with us today on Faith in finance. Live here on
Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions.
We do have a few lines open. You'd like to
be a part of the program today. Call right now.
800 525 7000. Again, that number 800 525 7000. Uh,
let's head back to the phones. Uh, Illinois is where
we're headed next. Antoinette, how can I serve you?
S5 (22:25):
Yes. God bless you and your mission. I have a question.
I have a son that he's a teenager. He's in 20.
He's 22, 23 years old. Um, but, um, he's graduating
from college this year, and he'll be starting his job
next year. Um, but I just have a question regarding, uh,
(22:47):
like a planned retirement for him. What can I advise
him on? Um, maybe having his own private investment in that,
besides whatever he will have from whatever he'll be working?
S1 (23:01):
Yes. Well, there's no doubt that the best retirement account
for a young adult, uh, is going to be a
Roth IRA. Roth IRA, um, so long as he has
earned income, meaning income from a job, uh, then he
can open up and contribute to a Roth up to $7,000, Dollars,
(23:22):
as long as he has at least $7,000 in earned
income for the year. The reason the Roth IRA is
so attractive is he's he's going to earn the money,
he's going to pay tax on it, and then he's
going to make his contribution to his Roth IRA anytime
before he files his 2025 return. So up as late
as April of 2026, he can make the the contribution
(23:45):
for 2025. That's after tax dollars going in. So he
doesn't get a deduction. But the amount that he deposits
and then invests is able to grow over the next
let's say 40 years until retirement, however long that is.
And all that growth from the investments is going to
be taken out as a withdrawal in retirement whenever he
(24:07):
wants 100% tax free. And that is a significant opportunity.
The other thing is because he's putting in after tax dollars,
it's more powerful, even for teens and young adults, because
they're likely to be in a low tax bracket because
they're in the very early part of their working life
and therefore they don't have as much income as maybe
(24:28):
they would have, you know, in their in their 40s
and 50s. So they pay little or no tax now.
They get all this tax free growth between now and retirement.
And then they pull it out tax free. Uh, also
the contributions, not the earnings, but the contributions can be
withdrawn at any time for any reason without penalty. And
you can use a portion of it up to 10,000
(24:50):
for a first home purchase or education or even emergencies.
So there's real opportunities there. And, you know, they're very
easy to open. I would probably open it at at
Charles Schwab or Fidelity. Both get very high ratings on
customer service, wonderful access to a wide range of investments.
And I think that could be exactly what you're looking for.
(25:12):
Is that helpful, Antoinette?
S5 (25:14):
Yes. But my other question. What about if his income
will be exceeding like 35, 40,000 a year.
S1 (25:22):
Uh. That's okay. Yeah. Um, so are you talking about
the the income cap for a Roth IRA?
S5 (25:29):
No, no, no, I'm saying his actual earnings because he's
going to be a nurse. So, you know, they get
paid pretty good. Okay.
S1 (25:38):
But that's not going to stand in the way of
him contributing to a Roth IRA. Um, he wouldn't lose
his ability to contribute to a Roth. Um, as long
as he has income of less than $146,000 for the year,
as long as he's under 146,000, he can contribute to that.
Roth up to $7,000.
S5 (26:00):
Okay. But then, um, is there something that he does
contribute but would deduct from his earnings and that would
be helping him?
S1 (26:08):
Yeah. He could instead put the money into a traditional IRA.
He doesn't have a retirement plan available at work.
S5 (26:17):
Well, he's not starting until next year, so.
S1 (26:19):
Got it. Got it.
S5 (26:22):
This year.
S1 (26:22):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean he could certainly put it in
a traditional IRA and then he would get a deduction.
But I would submit Antoinette that even though he doesn't
get the deduction because of his age, because he's so young,
he will benefit far more, uh, in the long run
from an after tax contribution to a Roth because of
(26:42):
the tax free growth, then he will benefit from the
current year tax deduction right now. So even though he's
not going to get the deduction for the Roth, I
would still recommend that he do the Roth just because
of the reasons I mentioned. But if really the focus
was getting a deduction in addition to putting the money
away for retirement, then he could choose the traditional IRA instead.
S5 (27:04):
Yeah. So you're saying with Iraq, it would be at
when he wants to withdraw? It won't be, um, he
won't have to pay any taxes on it. If he was.
S1 (27:14):
Right, he would have already paid the tax on the
original contribution, but all of the growth. So if it
compounds because you invest it or he invests it in
some high quality stock mutual funds and they grow for
the next 40 years, let's say it, you know, it
grows an average of 8% a year. All that growth,
which is compounding its growth on top of growth, on
(27:35):
top of growth, all that growth is going to be
taken out tax free in retirement.
S5 (27:40):
You won't have to pay taxes for from the growth.
S1 (27:44):
That's right.
S5 (27:45):
Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Yeah I understand. Yeah.
S6 (27:48):
Very good. Thank you for your help.
S1 (27:50):
All right. Thank you for your call today. Hey, I
want to send you a book that I think will
be helpful to, uh, your either your son or your grandson.
I can't remember which, but it's called the Sound Mind
Investing Handbook, and it really will give him a good
understanding of investing, but from a biblical worldview. So you
stand the line, Antoinette, we're going to send you that
as our gift today. You pass it along to him
(28:11):
and tell him we said we're we're proud of him
for thinking about investing early in his working career. Thanks
for your call. Uh. Let's see. We're going to head
to Indianapolis next. Hi, James. Go ahead.
S7 (28:22):
Yeah. Hey, thanks so much. I love the show. And
thanks for being there for you. God bless you. Thank you.
I'll be. I'll be brief. So do you agree with
me that you feel that the, uh, housing market is
getting ready to turn in 2008? And the reason why
I say that is in Indiana alone, the, uh, the
the houses are being developed even right next to me
(28:44):
in a pretty good neighborhood. But they're being developed by
5 to 10,000 more houses in the next six months.
Already have the numbers and the the people building them,
but only only 10% of Indiana Hoosiers make over 100,000
a year. So we have all these houses being built,
the ones that are built right now, the people are
(29:04):
moving into. They don't have furniture. They have, uh, no
windows in the back. And it just feels like we're
headed in the wrong direction. And I'm not a person
to see the sky fall. But I was a mortgage
broker in 2008. I saw firsthand, and I feel what
people don't understand that there's a high number of foreclosures
right now and a high number of repossessions right now.
(29:26):
And I don't know why the alarms aren't being sounded.
Am I off track or do you agree?
S1 (29:32):
Uh, I don't agree with the premise nationally. I mean,
that doesn't mean there wouldn't be pockets in the country
where there could be a certain phenomenon going on. But
the bottom line is, overall inventory nationally remains historically low. Um,
which is going to continue to keep that upward pressure
(29:53):
on prices in most areas now. More listings are coming, uh,
which has improved buyer leverage, especially in newer, higher inventory regions.
And you may be one of those, uh, but but
pretty much all economists are saying they expect continued modest
growth into 25 and 26. No one's really calling for
(30:15):
a crash. You know what we saw with the Great
Recession in 2000, 2008, 2009, that was a systemic problem
with the banking and credit industry, with credit standards and
reserve requirements and lending practices that were out of whack.
That has all been resolved. The banks are in a
much different place. The lending standards have changed. So just
(30:39):
given the fact that even though interest rates are still high,
pretty much no one is is calling for a crash
by any means, perhaps a slowdown. But even this, I
think it's still a modest increase going forward. We'll be
right back. Thanks for your call. Thanks for joining us
(31:00):
today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We're
taking your calls and questions today. Before the break, we
were talking to James. I was up against a hard
stop there for that break. Let me just kind of
recap James James asked a great question. And that is,
you know, he's saying, listen, based on what I'm seeing
in my area, I think we're overbuilding. I'm seeing homes
perhaps priced out of what most people can afford in
(31:22):
my area. I've got a lot of, you know, sitting empty.
Are we headed for something that might be like 2008, 2009?
My answer was no. And let me just explain why.
You know, I think there's a few key reasons. Number
one would be the tight housing supply. So even with
inventory rising, it's getting better. We're still below pre-pandemic levels
(31:45):
because homebuilders underbuilt for over a decade after the 2008 crash.
Best estimates are today from from a consensus of economists
that I've seen, we're about a million units short for
the demand. In terms of homes in the US today, uh,
two would be strong homeowner equity. Um, most homeowners today
(32:06):
have substantial equity. So nearly half of U.S. homes right
now are owned free and clear. Many others have low
fixed rate mortgages. Here's why that matters. And this is
why it's unlike 2008. See, we don't have a bubble
of risky adjustable rate loans like we had then. Most
mortgages today are fixed rate and affordable. Even though rates
(32:28):
have risen, most people are still at at low interest rates.
So we're we're not going to be in a situation,
you know, where we're going to have a wave of
forced sales even in an economic downturn. The third thing
and I mentioned this lending standards are much tighter today
after 2008, 2009. Um, and so today's buyers are better qualified.
(32:50):
Banks require higher credit scores, down payments, verified income. That's
a big contrast to the subprime crisis from 2008 2009. Um, also,
the demographic demand millions of millennials and Gen Zers are
entering prime home buying years. That's going to support prices
and the activity. So I think the bottom line is,
(33:10):
you know, even though this could vary by certain pockets
in the country, at least nationally, most economists think we're
in pretty good shape with our housing market. Despite the
dramatic run up, we could see a tapering off of that.
But probably we're still going to see, at least for
the next couple of years, you know, modest increases, certainly
not a crash and probably not even any decline. So
(33:33):
hopefully that gives you some things to think about there.
Before we head back to the phones, we did have
a caller, um, Gloria, who was not able to be
on the air with us, but she wanted to know, uh,
whether it's a good idea to get life insurance for
children and grandchildren. And, you know, this question does come
up periodically, and it's a good one, I think, just
related to, you know, whether or not that's wise, uh,
(33:56):
as you think about being a steward of God's resources.
And I would just say, you know, generally, no, that's
not my advice. Um, I just think it's unnecessary. You know, uh,
when we look at the purpose of insurance, the purpose
of insurance is to replace income or to offset the
(34:16):
risk that exists in the passing of a person where
dependents are counting on their income. So can kids generally
don't have income to replace, which is the core purpose
of life insurance. And so I think the bottom line is, um,
you know, that's, you know, not, I think, a necessary
(34:36):
use of God's resources. Um, and beyond that, uh, if
you're really looking for, you know, giving a small legacy gift,
I think there's other ways or better tools, I might say,
where you could save to be a blessing to a
child far better than, you know, a whole life insurance
policy where you're mixing a death benefit with a savings
(34:59):
vehicle that can be expensive and complicated. I'd rather see
you do just a straight investment account in your name,
but earmarked for the child with some good, high quality
growth mutual funds and just let it grow. You could
do a 529 college savings plan, but in terms of the,
you know, the the insurance, I just don't think, you
(35:19):
know that, that it's necessary. You know, people might say
it insures guaranteed insurability because the child is healthy, but,
you know, the likelihood they'd be uninsurable as adults is
just so low. Um, number two, because of a legacy gift, again,
I think there's other ways to do it. Third would
be in a tragic case of, you know, where a
(35:41):
small policy could cover funeral costs. This is really more
about peace of mind than financial necessity. Most people have
the resources. And again, still a very, you know, low
probability of that happening. So I would just say at
the end of the day, I just don't see it
as something as necessary. Gloria, I appreciate your call today
and I hope that helps you. Let's go to Chicago. Donna,
(36:03):
how can I help you?
S8 (36:06):
Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Um, so we
have a situation, um, from my husband's first marriage. He
has a son, and he has a small family. And
he has a hard time keeping a job. And he tries,
but they let him go for whatever reason. Um, so
(36:28):
then she works, and they're behind on their bills. So
in that often. But occasionally he'll call up and he'll
ask for money. And my husband, he helps him out.
But then we know that they are partying. They they're
not believers. We know that they they probably buy some
(36:51):
pot cigarettes, which is very expensive. And we just know
that if they were to cut these items from their list,
they could probably have a lot more comfortable way of living. So, um,
he has a tendency sometimes to manipulate my husband. He'll.
He'll call him and tell him that they're going to
(37:13):
lose their home, which they might. They might and then
say that the kids are going to be, you know,
sort of the kids are going to be living on
the street. And so my husband gets torn and doesn't
know what to do. So I've wanted to call for
some time now. Um, because we just really need some
biblical guidance. He won't take advice. Um, and then he
gets mad and he won't talk to my husband. So
(37:35):
we just need some some wise counsel because we want
to help them. But we also know that that they're
spending their money unwisely. And so we don't want to
enable that. So hopefully you can say a prayer and
just give us some some sound advice, you know.
S1 (37:53):
Well, I'd be delighted to. And I and I know
this one is challenging because we love our kids. We
certainly don't want to see them suffer and we want
to be a blessing to them. And especially if you
have the ability to do that, you have the means
to provide. It's hard to resist. And yet and I think,
you know, this, I'm kind of hearing it a bit
in your voice, but I'll just affirm and perhaps verbalize
(38:13):
what I think you're already thinking. And that is, you know,
you can do far more harm by continuing to provide
resources which decrease, which increases dependency, and supports unwise lifestyle choices.
So you're basically by continuing to provide your hard earned
(38:34):
money to this adult child, you are encouraging bad financial habits.
And from a spiritual perspective, you're throwing money at a
struggling child, which is shielding your your adult son from hardship,
which may absolutely be the way that the Lord is
going to get his attention. And so, you know, I
(38:56):
think you just need to be really careful and thoughtful
about this. And I think there are other ways to help.
You know, I think, you know, you and your husband
need to be on the same page. You need to
sit down before you go to the adult son and
have the conversation and make sure you all are aligned
and really make it a matter of prayer. Um, but
(39:16):
you know, if you do go and offer some assistance,
it needs to be tied to, uh, you really helping
to support and reinforce wise decision making, you know? So,
you know, it could be something like, um, you know,
if you pay toward debt, will, you know, match it, um,
(39:37):
you know, things like that that are reinforcing the right behaviors.
It could be, you know, you're willing to help with
a certain outcome, especially if there's grandkids involved. Um, you know,
but it's going to be directly to, you know, you're
going to pay the bill directly, not just giving the
cash because, you know, that may be used for. In fact,
you have good, you know, reason to believe it's being
(39:59):
used for things that would not be in alignment with
biblical values. And so you make that, you know, check
directly out to that particular entity or, you know, helping
with that bill. All of that could be predicated on this, son,
you know, walking with a certified Christian financial counselor. You know,
maybe there needs to be a third party here. You
(40:20):
all don't need to be the accountability here. But, you know,
perhaps your willingness to help in the future could be
tied to, you know, them providing, you know, walking along
with somebody that they're accountable to and that person, if
they'll if your son will give you permission, you know,
being willing to check in with you along the way
and say, hey, here's how it's going. Now, at the
(40:40):
end of the day, could this go sideways? And it it,
you know, provide a wedge in the relationship? Yes. Could
it mean that, you know, they he stops talking to
your your husband for a period of time? Absolutely. And
that's hard. But I think the last thing we would
want to do is continue to provide help. That is
not going to allow the Lord to get his attention
to the extent he wants to do that, and this
(41:02):
is the way to do it. It's not going to
reinforce any kind of wise financial decision making and stewardship
in the future, because there's no reason to make any
kind of change. We're shielding him from, you know, the
consequences of mismanagement and unwise decision making. And the longer
you do that, the longer it's going to take for
(41:25):
him to learn from this surrender his life to Jesus,
which is far more important than anything. Put him as
the King and the Lord of his life and his money,
and then begin to he, you know, heed wise counsel
from God's Word about how to manage what's left. Does
that make sense, though?
S8 (41:43):
Yes, yes it does. Thank you.
S1 (41:45):
Okay. That's hard. You know, this is not easy. And
I think, you know, what it means is we we
make this a matter of prayer. You know, I think
you need to clarify your financial expectations. I think, you know,
you may decide to exercise tough love here. And that's
probably just given the history of this and how long
(42:07):
it's going on and what you're experiencing. I think perhaps
the next season is about saying, listen, we love you.
We just can't continue to support the decisions you're making. Um,
and so we need to to stop for this time.
And that may have relational consequences, but I think you
can rest in the fact that, you know, our main
(42:28):
objective is that he'd surrender his life to the Lord.
And then the financial decision making based on God's Word
would follow. Donna, thanks for your call today. We'll be
praying for you. Let us know how it turns out.
Faith and finance lives of partnership between Moody Radio and
Faith fi, Omar, Tahera, Rihanna and Jim were serving us today.
Thanks for being here. We'll see you tomorrow.
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