July 23, 2025 • 42 mins
On the next Faith & Finance Live, Rob West and Dr. David W. Jones will tackle a message where health and wealth are promised, but heartache is often delivered. It’s the prosperity gospel. In this final episode of our Financial Ethics series, they unpack the dangers of this trend and point us back to a truly biblical view of blessing and provision. Then, Rob addresses your financial questions. That’s Faith & Finance Live, where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances—weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:08):
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the
kingdom of heaven. Matthew five verse three. Hi, I'm Rob West.
In the final episode of our financial ethics series, we're
tackling a message that promises health and wealth but often
leads to heartache. The prosperity gospel. Doctor David W Jones
joins us to unpack its dangers and point us back
(00:30):
to a truly biblical view of blessing and provision. Then
it's on to your calls at 800 525 7000. That's
800 525 7000. This is faith and finance. Live biblical
wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, we're honored to welcome
(00:50):
back Doctor David W Jones as we conclude our financial
ethics series. He's a senior professor of Christian ethics at
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and co-author of health, wealth, and
Happiness How the Prosperity Gospel Overshadows the Gospel of Christ. Well,
that's especially fitting because today we're diving into that very topic. And, David,
(01:11):
it's always a pleasure to have you here.
S2 (01:13):
Hi, Rob. It's good to be here.
S1 (01:15):
David, to start us off, you've written that the prosperity
gospel redefines God's blessing. Material terms. So let's begin at
the foundation. How should Christians what it truly means to
be blessed?
S2 (01:28):
You know, Rob, um, a couple verses that come to
my mind. One from the New Testament and maybe one
from the old, uh, Romans four eight Paul writes and says,
blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not
impute sin. Uh, and I mean that in itself that
is true blessing. Uh, those of us who have been
forgiven of our sins, and Jeremiah 17, seven and eight,
(01:50):
an Old Testament passage here. Jeremiah writes and says, blessed
is the man who trusts in the Lord, and whose
hope is in the Lord. For he shall be like
a tree planted by the waters, which spreads out its
roots by the river, and will not fear when heat comes,
but its leaf will be green, and will not be
anxious in the year of drought, nor will cease from
(02:12):
yielding fruit. And these verses are so important, because they
define for us in biblical categories what true blessing actually is.
And one of the things here, I think, that we'll
talk about as we look at prosperity gospel, is a
foundational problem for the prosperity gospel is blessing is almost
always defined within the prosperity gospel along material lines, which
(02:36):
is not necessarily the biblical category of blessing.
S1 (02:40):
Yeah. That's helpful. I know you also challenge in your
book the notion that faith should guarantee prosperity. So how
with outcome distort the gospel's true promise?
S2 (02:52):
Yeah. What, um, what happens oftentimes within a prosperity viewed as, uh,
like a force that is generated by believers. That believers
can then use in order to, um, bring about blessings
from God. Because of that faith that was manifested. Whereas
(03:14):
I would want to say no, that faith, actually, uh,
it's not a self-generated faith is, uh, our trusting in
God's revealed grace. Uh, faith is a gift of God
that he gives to us. And so, with those differing
ideas of faith, um, I think the prosperity gospel, it's
(03:34):
prone to define salvation almost as a quid pro quo
transaction between man and God. But biblically defined would biblical faith.
I'd want to say that salvation is a a grace
transaction between God and man.
S1 (03:48):
Mm. Yeah, that's really helpful. Um, in your book, you
mentioned that prosperity theology often teaches a faith Formula. If
you believe strongly enough, God will reward you. Explain the
problems with this view and how it differs from a
biblical understanding of faith.
S2 (04:04):
Hey, you know, Rob, it's interesting if you, um, if
you talk to a bunch of Christians and ask them
to define faith, you'll get a a lot of different answers.
And I think, unfortunately, uh, sometimes faith is defined as
almost like sincere irrationality, uh, and faith, it's almost viewed
as if unbelievable, you know, that they are. Whereas I
(04:27):
don't want to say no, biblically speaking, as I said earlier,
you know, faith is trusting in God's revealed grace. Uh,
you know, faith is it's akin to the eyesight of
the soul. Uh, and I would I would want to
view faith as being incredibly rational and reasonable. Now, it's
not a math equation, but Hebrews 11 one says that
(04:48):
faith is the substance of things hoped for and the
evidence of things not seen. And so we see there
the rationality and the reasonableness of faith.
S1 (04:56):
Hmm. Yeah. We're talking today about the prosperity gospel with
Doctor David W Jones. He's senior professor of Christian ethics
at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. More on this important topic.
Just around the corner. Don't go anywhere. We're just getting started.
(05:23):
Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live.
Today we're wrapping up our financial ethics series, dealing with
some hard questions around money and our worldview coming from Scripture. Today,
the focus the prosperity gospel. David W Jones is with us.
He's senior professor of Christian ethics at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.
(05:44):
He's also the co-author of health, wealth, and Happiness How
the Prosperity Gospel Overshadows the Gospel of Christ. And before
the break, David was laying a foundation for faith and
how it relates to our finances, how God rewards us.
And we're going to continue to unpack this topic. David,
(06:04):
the prosperity gospel doesn't just reshape what we expect from God,
it also changes how we view suffering. So why is
a biblical theology of suffering so crucial for following Jesus faithfully?
S2 (06:17):
Yeah, Rob, you know, I think a driving force behind
the prosperity gospel. It's this desire to escape suffering. And
of course, that's true not just among those who follow
the prosperity gospel, but that's true in general, I think,
among human beings. But I think it's important that we
recognize that suffering is an inevitable part of being a
(06:38):
human being in the fallen world. First Peter 412 Peter
told the church, don't think it strange concerning the fiery trial,
which is to try you as though something strange were
happening to you. and Peter implies that it's suffering. It's
just going to be part of living in the fallen world.
And even as Paul told the church in second Timothy
(07:01):
312 that all who desire to live godly in Christ
will suffer persecution. Uh, and so the idea is just
that suffering, uh, it's inevitable. And I think we could
all look back on our lives. And I think most
people would agree with the statement that suffering is the
crucible of character. Uh, it's it can be a very
(07:22):
effective tool in the process of sanctification. And I know
just looking back on my life, I could say the
times when I've suffered the most have been the times
when I've drawn closest to Christ and have been made
the most like him. Uh. And so. Well, we don't
want to develop some type of unhealthy martyr complex and
unnecessarily seek suffering. We can recognize that suffering is part
(07:47):
of living in the fallen world, and suffering is one
of the one of the tools that God uses to
make us more like his son.
S1 (07:54):
Yeah, there's no doubt about that. You know, so much
of this conversation, David, comes down to God's intended means
of provision, which is really through work, not windfalls or
get rich quick schemes. So how does this vision that
you talk about in your book uphold human dignity and
align with scriptures teaching on work, being God's design?
S2 (08:16):
You know, Rob, a theme that we've brought up over
a series on financial ethics. It's the idea that, you know,
God's a creator who made us. He made human beings
in his image in order to create, uh, to work.
As a matter of fact, that's the very first command
that God ever gave to humanity was to go forth
and to procreate. That is, to create and in a sense, to, um,
(08:41):
to functionally bear God's image. And so God's design for
us is that we would labor, uh, and then as
we labor and we create. So we flourish. And you know,
it's it's important to, to not forget that God doesn't
give us random commands in Scripture, but rather what we
(09:02):
see is that God actually created us to do that
which he tells us to do. And so if labor
leading to productivity and flourishing and and wealth, sometimes, if
that is the divine design, then we need to be
careful about any type of theology or any type of
(09:24):
activity that would create wealth apart from labor and apart
from work, because not only is that going to be
a violation of how God has designed us, but it's
also going to be profoundly unfulfilling to us because God
actually made us to do again that which he told
us to do.
S1 (09:43):
Yeah. Well, that's such a big idea. That really is
at the core of this entire conversation. Station. David, you
also note that certain biblical promises, when removed from their
historical and covenantal context, can be weaponized by.
S2 (09:57):
Prosperity type of theology. They'll have certain proof, texts, verses,
and passages that they'll cite in order to support their ideas.
And I could give you just a few examples. Um,
second Corinthians eight nine comes to mind. And in that
passage Paul says, for you know the grace of our
Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for
(10:20):
your sakes he became poor, that you through his poverty
might become rich. And if we recite this verse in isolation, uh,
it might appear to be teaching that Christ came and
died for us in order that we might become, you know, healthy,
wealthy and wise. But when you go when you look
at the context of Second Corinthians eight nine, what we
(10:41):
see is that in that passage, Paul isn't talking about
a material increase. Crease. He's talking about our spiritual condition.
That is, we were spiritually bankrupt, unable because of our depravity,
and we needed God to come down and solve our problem.
And so he who was rich came down and became poor,
(11:02):
that we might become spiritually rich in him. And that's
a completely different interpretation than what we might find amongst, um,
amongst those who talk about the prosperity again. There are
other passages as well, um, that we could talk about,
but there's going to be pretty much kind of the
same theme, uh, where a verse is taken out of
its context, uh, and it's bent towards, um, supporting a
(11:25):
particular goal in theology, uh, that folks like the prosperity
gospel advocates might have.
S1 (11:32):
Sure, the prosperity gospel often intersects with giving as well,
and the message from the prosperity gospel is that we
give in order to get. But clearly, Scripture presents a
much richer picture of generosity. So talk for a second
about how biblical giving differs. I call seed faith teaching.
S2 (11:52):
Yeah. You know, it's it's so important, Rob. You know,
as as all of us, um, as we hopefully, uh,
desire to, to give to our churches and other Christian organizations, uh,
it's so important that we ask ourselves that question of
what is my motivation? Uh, why am I actually giving?
And what is driving this act of generosity that I'm
(12:12):
engaging in? And I think oftentimes what we see is that, uh,
those who engage in seed faith giving, which is tied
to the prosperity gospel, their motivation for giving, uh, is
really their own personal financial increase. And so their giving is, um,
you could say, oftentimes driven by, by greed and selfishness, uh,
(12:32):
which hopefully we would recognize as not laudable motivations, whereas
biblical giving ought to be motivated by grace, it ought
to focus on love of God and love of neighbor.
It ought to be driven by that idea that all
that I'm I'm stewarding is God's anyways. And because I
love him and his ministry and because I love neighbor
(12:55):
and want to want to help those in my community
or elsewhere that need help. So this is why I give.
And so again, it's that motivation is is it greed
or is it grace or is it guilt or what
is what's driving my giving? And the goal is motivated
by love of God and love of neighbor in all
(13:16):
that we do.
S1 (13:17):
Dave. Tie a bow on this. What's the one takeaway
you would leave our audience with today?
S2 (13:22):
You know, I would. I would hope that as followers
of Christ that we would seek our lives about him,
about his glory, not about our increase, not about our
own prosperity, but about flourishing and being made in the
image of his son.
S1 (13:38):
Yes. Excellent. Well said. Thanks for your time, my friend.
S2 (13:41):
Thank you.
S1 (13:42):
That's David W Jones. He's the author of health, wealth,
and Happiness How the Prosperity Gospel Overshadows the Gospel of Christ.
Your calls are next. 800 525 7000. We'll be right back.
S3 (14:02):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S4 (14:27):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and finance.
S1 (14:29):
Live here on Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. Boy, great
to finish out that.
S4 (14:33):
Series.
S1 (14:34):
Today with Doctor David W Jones. We covered a lot
of ground over the last several talked about financial ethics.
We talked about giving to homeless people and just how
we should navigate that when someone's asking for money on
the side of the road. We talked about gambling, we
talked about sports betting, and then today we finish it
up with, uh, the prosperity gospel. Hopefully it helped you
(14:56):
to think deeper and biblical about some of these hard
topics related to money. Well, we want to turn the
corner now and here in just a moment at least.
We want to take your calls and questions on anything financial.
So now is the time to get your call in.
That number is 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
(15:18):
Whatever is on your mind today in your financial life.
That's what we want to talk about. Again that number 805,000.
We will get to those here in just a moment. Uh,
in the news, President Trump has signed, as of yesterday,
a major trade deal with Japan slashing planned auto tariffs
from 25% down to 15% and avoiding other punitive levies.
(15:40):
Analysts say this signals easing trading tensions and may spur
additional agreements with other countries so far. Market reactions have
been mixed. Uh, you know, the market started off fairly flat.
It's gained some momentum here as we press toward the
end of the trading day. The Dow Jones up 500
plus points. That's a little over 1%. The S&P 500
(16:04):
up three quarters of a point and the Nasdaq up
a little better than a half a point. That's as
traders pour over earnings and to these latest trade deals.
By the way, some observers say that increased cooperation and
trade with Japan, strengthening the economies of both nations could
be another strategic check on China. That's something to keep
(16:26):
an eye on as more of these trade flows expected
to come soon. Start to see the light of day.
All right. The lines are filling up. That means you
have questions. So let's dive in Nebraska today. Marcy, thank
you for calling. Go right ahead.
S5 (16:39):
Well. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I'll
just tell you a little bit about myself. I am
an almost 79 year old widow with two children. And, um,
I don't have very much in holdings. I have a home,
which is very, I think within $3,000 or something of
being paid for. I own my car outright, and I
(17:02):
have maybe about $30,000 in securities. It has come down from,
you know, where it used to be. And I have
to take out some every year for the required distribution.
So this is my question. Um, I don't want things
to have to go into probate for my children if
my house hasn't been finished paying for, for instance, I
(17:22):
don't want house payments to be due. And, you know,
they don't maybe even have a way to take care
of that. So I was looking at the irrevocable trust way,
and I spoke with a lawyer and, um, found out
that that was going to be like at least $1,000.
And then in the meantime, and it may have been
(17:43):
on your program, I heard about the transfer on death
deed and Nebraska, uh, you they they have that we
can do that. And I realized that, um. I realized
that they're different, but I'm just wondering, in my case,
(18:05):
which would be better for me, which avenue would be
better to go?
S1 (18:09):
Yes. Very good. Um, well, I think it does just
come down to what you're trying to accomplish. Um, you know,
with the revocable trust. And that's typically what you would
be thinking of, not an irrevocable trust. An irrevocable trust,
by the way, is permanent. You can't change it. And
if really what you're looking for is just to, uh,
(18:30):
create an efficient transfer of your estate, including your home
and other assets, uh, a revocable trust will accomplish that,
whereby your assets can be handled by a trustee either
before your death, if you're incapacitated at death, or even
beyond death based on the provisions of the trust. Avoids probate.
Avoids the time and expense related to it. It's private,
(18:52):
not a part of the public record, and that's often
why it's used. Now, if, as you said, your estate
is fairly simple and the primary concern you have is
related to your home, that's where that transfer on death deed,
which to your point, is available in Nebraska, not available
in every state, allows you to essentially name a beneficiary. Now,
(19:15):
retain full control during your life and bypass probate when
you pass. It's simple and it's inexpensive. It has to
be signed and witnessed and notarized and recorded within 30 days.
And you know, the it can be a very effective
tool for for what you're describing. And it would avoid
(19:35):
some of the complexity of and cost really, of putting
a revocable trust in place that's going to cost several
thousand dollars, and everything that would be subject to the
trust would need to be titled in the trust. And if, again,
really all we're looking at is the home, that's where
the the Tod deed, uh, is a simpler and more
(19:55):
cost effective solution. Um, you know, for you to accomplish
these purposes. So I think, you know, I might go
back to that same attorney and just say, you know,
would you be able to draft a Tod deed for
me to put in place so that I can ensure
that my kids get the house quickly and efficiently outside
of probate at my passing? And that would certainly accomplish that.
S5 (20:18):
Okay. Because the little bit of holdings I have, they
both are beneficiaries on that already, and it's not like
they would need them immediately, you know? So, um, that
really makes me feel a lot better because I came
up kind of to a halt with this, uh, revocable
trust being so expensive and and carrying, um, covering so
much more than what I am really needing. So I
(20:40):
really appreciate that. That gives me confidence.
S1 (20:43):
Excellent. So glad to hear that, Marcy. Hey, I want
to send you a book. It's called Wise Women Managing Money.
It was written by Miriam Neff when her husband passed away,
as she was kind of thrust in the role of
managing the family finances. I think it'll be an enjoyable
read for you and encouraging and real practical as well.
It's our gift to you, so stay on the line.
We'll get it out to you. By the way, to, uh,
her point, uh, mortgage doesn't go away when the parents die.
(21:07):
The kids inherit the home. They continue making the payments,
and then they can decide what to do with it,
refinance or sell it at that point. Thanks for being
with us today. We'll be right back.
S4 (21:26):
Great to have you with us today.
S1 (21:27):
On Faith in finance live here on Moody Radio. I'm
Rob West. Hey, if you listen to the program regularly,
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(21:48):
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(22:12):
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(22:34):
we'd love to invite you into our partner program even today.
All right, let's head back to the phones. By the way,
we have three lines open. 800 525 7002. Uh, Tampa, Florida. Hi, Andy.
Go ahead.
S6 (22:47):
Hi, Rob. Thank you for your program and your and
all your expertise on personal finance. It's a wealth of
information here.
S1 (22:55):
Awesome. Thank you.
S6 (22:56):
Question for you. My question for you today is I
have a furniture store credit card with an $8,000 credit limit.
I have no balance on it. The problem is that
the store closed its doors last year. How do I
take care of that? As far as my credit is concerned?
S1 (23:16):
Yeah. Uh, it's it's a great question. Um, you know,
it is true that canceling a credit card can lower
your credit score. Uh, but in this case, because the
store went out of business, you may not have much
control over it. What's likely happening is that when the
store closes, the issuing bank, not the store itself, decides
(23:38):
whether to keep the card active or shut it down
if the bank closes the card. Your credit score might
dip slightly because there's two factors that are driven by it.
You know, most of these or either of these may
or may not apply to you. Number one is it's
going to lower your total available credit. So if it
had an $8,000 credit line and you had a zero
(24:00):
balance that raised your total available credit across all your
cards by 8000. And if your carrying balances on other cards,
when this 8000 comes out of the total available, then
the balance you're carrying from month to month is now
a higher percentage of your total, which is what's called
your credit utilization. That could, you know, that change could
(24:22):
cause your score to dip. Again, that may or may
not apply. Secondly, when the card is closed and it's
removed from your credit history, that in and of itself could,
you know, again, very slightly lower that score, but it's
going to be modest and it's going to be temporary.
So if you wanted I mean first thing you could
(24:43):
do is just do nothing. Second, you could call the
card issuer and you could ask, are they closing the
account or will it be converted to another open card
they offer? If they keep it open, you can leave
it there. Or you could just go ahead and close
it if you're not planning to use it, even if
it's temporary. I mean, even if it's going to result
in a temporary dip in your credit score, which, by
(25:04):
the way, would probably be only 20, 30, 40 points
at the most. I think that'll come right back in
a couple of months. And I would rather you go
ahead and close it because, you know, every account that's
open is one more account that has the ability to
be compromised. And if you're not out looking for a
new car and planning to get a loan or out
shopping for a mortgage, you know your score. Moving around
(25:27):
20 to 50 points in any direction is really minor
and insignificant. And so I would just go ahead and
get the account closed regardless of what their plan is.
And that way you don't have to keep up with it.
Does that make sense though?
S6 (25:41):
Absolutely does. Absolutely does. Thank you very much, Rob.
S1 (25:45):
All right Andy. God bless you, my friend. Thanks for
calling today. Uh. Let's see. Florida is where we're headed next. Hi, Jonathan.
How can I help?
S7 (25:52):
Hey. How's it going? Um, so, unfortunately, I had my
grandmother pass away recently, and, um, she left an inheritance,
and so she wanted to give the inheritance to the grandkids,
but she never got to it because she was getting older,
wasn't feeling well, and never put it on her will. Um, now,
(26:13):
my parents, I think, are the beneficiaries of the inheritance,
and they want to give a portion to each grandkid,
but they don't know the best way to go about
that Without it getting tax significantly so. Is there a
way to minimize the taxes on that?
S1 (26:34):
There really shouldn't be any taxes you know. If they
are the ones. So let me just make sure I'm
clear here though. First she had no will. Is that right?
S7 (26:43):
She did have a will.
S1 (26:45):
Oh, it just wasn't updated to include the grandkids.
S7 (26:48):
Updated.
S1 (26:49):
Got it. Okay. So if she passed away with a will.
And the parents, her children were the ones that received everything,
then they've received that. Uh, there's not any inheritance tax federally.
The only tax would be if the estate had to
pay tax before they got the money, but that would
be responsible to the estate. And that only kicks in,
(27:09):
at least based on the current IRS rules and regs
above $13 million. So unless this was a pretty massive estate,
there's not any taxes, there's no estate taxes and there's
no inheritance tax at a federal level. So now the
money belongs to the parents. And they got it tax
free as an inheritance, and that if they want to honor, uh,
you know, their grandma's intent and pass the money to
(27:31):
the grandkids, uh, you know, they can just use the
annual gift tax exclusion. So in 2025, they can gift
up to $19,000 per person or 38,000 per grandchild as
a couple without filing any gift tax return. If the
amount is larger, they can still gift it tax free.
(27:52):
They would just need to let the IRS know through
IRS form 709, and no taxes are due unless they
gift over their lifetime in the aggregate more than $13 million.
So there's not really going to be any taxes due.
The other option is, you know, beyond just that straight
cash gift of of 19,000 per person or 38,000 to
(28:17):
any one individual as a married couple, um, they could
also make contributions direct to a 529 college savings plan,
which would be great for educational purposes. The funds grow
tax free. Um, you know, they also could set aside
an account for the minor children, grandchildren and invest the
money earmarked for the child with a plan, you know,
(28:39):
to hand it off at the age of majority or
when the child is, you know, spiritually and financially mature
enough to receive it. Really? In any case, there should
not be any tax implications, uh, either in, in the
parents receiving the assets or the, the further gift from
the parents down to the grandkids.
S7 (28:58):
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Because they have this idea that it's
going to be taxed if they transfer it. So they're
doing it in small increments through Zelle. But I think
I was pretty sure that was more efficient ways of
doing that.
S1 (29:11):
Yeah. It's just unnecessary because like I said, they really
can give any amount they want if they keep it
under 19,000 per child or 38,000 as a couple going
to one child. Then there under that annual gift exclusion
per individual. And they don't even have to tell the
IRS about it. Um, so as long as they don't
(29:33):
want to do more than $38,000 between the two of
them to any one individual, they're done. No taxes whatsoever. Now,
if they go above that, it's still fine. They just
have to tell the IRS and the IRS is going
to apply it to their lifetime gift exemption of $13 million.
So there's not any need to kind of dole this
out in very small increments, because there really are no
(29:56):
taxes due on this. So have them look that up.
And what they're looking for is the annual gift exclusion.
That's really what you want to, you know, key them into.
And what they will find is that that allows them
to do pretty much all the giving they probably want
to do. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
(30:21):
Glad to have you with us today on Faith and finance. Live.
I'm Rob West. Heading right back to the phones. Northwest
Indiana is where Rob is located. Go ahead sir.
S3 (30:32):
Hello.
S1 (30:32):
Hi. How can I help?
S8 (30:34):
Hi. Hey, Rob. I just have a quick question. Um,
I've been seeing, uh, you know, just internet. Um, we
currently go through a broker for, uh, like, vehicle homeowners,
you know, um, and we've got, like, a, uh, an
umbrella policy, so we kind of bundle our insurance. Okay. Um,
(30:56):
and what I've seen is. And is it okay if
I say with, uh, the website is or, uh, I
don't know if you've ever heard.
S1 (31:05):
That's fine.
S8 (31:06):
Okay. I think it's called, uh, insured duo. Uh, duo. There's, um,
a guy that his name is Dave Ramsey. I don't
know if you've ever heard of him, but. Sure. Uh,
he just. I've been seeing a couple things that he
just said that, hey, don't pay. You know, basically a
like if you go through, let's say, a state farm
(31:26):
or like a big firm, basically you're just paying somebody's commission.
You know what I'm saying? And, um, you know, this, uh,
website that I just told you, you just, like, put
in your vehicles, you know, age and, uh, it literally
could save you a couple of hundred dollars, you know,
(31:46):
per year. Uh, you know, depending on what kind of
vehicles you have. But, you know, I don't know if
you've ever heard of it. You know, my concern would
be just, uh, you know, really, um, you know, the,
the safety of it, you know what I'm saying? Like,
are you really getting good insurance? And your thoughts on it?
S1 (32:07):
Yeah, it's a great question. Uh, you know, it's really
important when you're choosing insurance to determine what is most
important to you. Uh, you know, is it the lowest premium? Uh,
is it the fact that you want really great customer
service and great claims handling. Um, do you want to
be able to customize and, you know, uh, you know,
some policies have options and writers that, you know, allow
(32:30):
you to add certain additional coverages. What about the financial
strength of the company itself? And, you know, I mean,
I think one of the benefits you get when you
go with, you know, some of the larger, more reputable,
established insurers like Farmers and State Farm is you're getting
that proven track record of strong claims support. Um, you know,
(32:52):
you're getting the bundled discounts, you're getting perhaps a, a
local agent who can advocate for you and you can
walk into and look them in the eye. You're getting
financial stability, but with that comes higher premiums. You're paying
for the kind of brand and service level. And perhaps there's,
you know, less flexibility on underwriting. So, you know, regardless
(33:13):
of whether you, uh, you know, you use a search
engine to kind of compare all these different insurance companies,
or you go direct or you use an independent agent,
I think you've really got to decide what is the
primary objective. Are you solving for a budget line item,
you know, that has to come in under a certain number,
or are you really looking for, you know, that that
(33:36):
trusted insurance partner that you know has to compete at
the price level? I mean, we can't just spend an
unlimited amount, but where you're also looking at other factors
to make this decision. And there's probably a sweet spot
there that, you know, considers what you can afford, but
also takes into account, you know, how important some of
(33:57):
these other benefits are, namely the financial strength, perhaps the
local representative. But then perhaps most importantly, because this is
what matters when you need it. You know, how effective
are they going to be at claims support and actually
coming through and, you know, making you whole and doing
it in a in a timely fashion, uh, you know,
when that time comes. Does that make sense?
S8 (34:19):
Yeah. Well, one last question. I don't know if you
got just a quick second. Um, sure. Do you do
you recommend, uh, at any given point? Um, I'm looking
possibly to be retiring. My wife's probably going to be
retiring in the next year or year and a half. Uh,
would you recommend always having an umbrella policy? Um, just
(34:40):
as a precaution, if, you know, if you can afford it.
S1 (34:45):
Uh, I do, yeah. I mean, I think it makes
a lot of sense. Uh, I've got an umbrella policy.
I think it's something that's often overlooked. Um, you know,
they it's one of the most affordable ways to protect
your assets and give you peace of. Give you peace
of mind. It provides that extra liability coverage, usually starting
at about $1 million on top of your auto and
(35:07):
homeowners policies. So if you're in a car accident, uh,
you know, and God forbid, there's, uh, you know, a
major injury of some kind, perhaps of another person. And
there was a a lawsuit filed, or you had a
visitor to your home that was injured on the property or,
you know, a defamation claim. I mean, it's going to
cover those legal fees and judgments that go beyond your
(35:30):
base policy. And, you know, that is a significant protection. Uh,
you know, to your retirement accounts, your investments, your home.
And and so I think it's, uh, it's absolutely a
low cost and wise safety net, including for retirees, because,
you know, you've worked hard to build the assets that
(35:51):
you've got. And this is going to put that added
layer of protection at a reasonable cost over something that
is unforeseen.
S8 (36:00):
Excellent. Okay. Thank you for your, uh, your time and
your wisdom. I really appreciate it. Rob, you do a
great job.
S1 (36:07):
Thanks, my friend. Yeah, I appreciate that. And thanks for
being on the program today. Uh, let's go to Indiana. Hi, Will.
How can I help you?
S9 (36:14):
Hi, Rob, thanks for taking my call. Hey, I just
had a quick question. My my pastor put out a
challenge to our congregation about selling some things that that
we may have in access and taking that money and
giving it to, you know, to the poor, which in
this case was some mission in Honduras that they're trying
to start a feeding center for. So my question is,
is I have some things that I can sell. However,
(36:36):
I also have some debt like over $10,000 in debt.
So I guess I'm just looking for some guidance on
like is there a happy medium? Obviously I know it's
what God wants me to do. However, you know, I
really want to get this this credit card debt taken
care of. So yeah, just appreciate any kind of godly wisdom.
And thank you so much for taking my call.
S1 (36:55):
Absolutely. Well, it's a great question. Listen, and I understand
you're asking it because you want to honor the Lord.
And I really appreciate that. Um, and so I think
that's the first step because, remember, God doesn't need our money.
He has the cattle on a thousand hills. He has
every ability to provide for these missionaries. The question is,
is this the time for you to step in and
(37:16):
be a part of that assistance that God will provide?
And I think that's between you and the Lord. New
Testament giving, I think, is giving sacrificially. It's giving proportionately
to what God has provided to us and in keeping
with our income. So I think there's a systematic element
to it. It's absolutely giving cheerfully. You know, second Corinthians nine,
(37:37):
each of you should give, as you have decided in
your heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves
a cheerful giver. So I don't think there's really room, uh,
you know, in biblical giving for guilt based giving, it really,
if anything, should be a conviction from the Holy Spirit,
but it should be an overflow of our worship to God. Now,
both of these things you're describing your ability to give,
(37:59):
to support a full time missionary and your desire to
be out from under consumer debt, which shores up your
financial foundation as a steward or a manager of God's resources.
Those are both God honoring things, and I don't think
there's one, you know, one thing is better than another.
And so if you decided, you know, hey, I'm going
to continue to give proportionately in whatever systematic way you're doing. And,
(38:22):
you know, if it were me, I would not eliminate
that systematic giving at whatever percentage you're at, you know,
ever altogether, no matter what the situation. I mean, I
just think continuing to exercise that muscle, if it's done
with the right heart posture is a good thing. But
this may not be the season for you to go
above and beyond that, because you are so laser focused on,
(38:44):
you know, getting out from under this 24% interest credit card.
And that's a good thing. And when you're out from
under that and your financial house is in order, you're
going to have the ability to do even more. And
I think that's wonderful. Now, if there are other places
you could cut back so we don't have to choose
between the debt reduction and the giving, well, great. Let's
do that. But if you're kind of living right up
(39:06):
to the edge and man, this is a season where
you're doubling down on getting out of debt. You know,
I would say again, we don't want to give out
of guilt. And so I think this might be the
time for you to say, hey, I'm going to pass
on that. I'm going to focus on getting out of
credit card debt. But I can't wait because this is
my heart's desire. I can't wait to be able to
give as unto the Lord as he leads. You know,
(39:27):
when that time comes beyond what I've ever been able
to give before. And I think an element of that
giving for a maturing believer is a gift that we feel,
you know, it's a sacrificial gift, but I don't think
you need to feel like that. That absolutely has to
be right now. If if you really you and your
wife have a conviction to get out of consumer debt
(39:47):
at this point. Is that helpful though at all? Will.
S9 (39:52):
Very helpful. Thank you so much, Robert. I really appreciate it.
Definitely great advice. Thank you so much.
S1 (39:57):
Appreciate you on the program today. Uh let's see. We're
going to finish up today. And Cleveland, Ohio Cathy, go
right ahead.
S10 (40:03):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm 62.
I'm looking forward to retiring at 65. And I'm right
now I have about 200,000 in my normal 401 K. That's, uh,
before tax. And then I have 100,000 in my 401 K.
That's after tax the Roth. And I'm putting about 30%
(40:26):
away out of my pay now. And I'm just worried
that I should I'm putting it in the Roth and
maybe I should be splitting it. Or maybe I should
be putting it all in the before tax.
S1 (40:37):
Yeah. I mean, there's not a perfect answer here. The
research that I've seen says this, this is just a
rule of thumb, is all it is, is that you
take your age and you add 20 to it, and
that's the portion that should go in the traditional or
the pre-tax. And then the balance goes in the Roth.
And what that recognizes is closer and closer to retirement.
(40:59):
You're going to benefit more if, in fact, you're at
the peak of your earning potential, where you're in the
highest bracket you'll ever be. And when you get to
retirement because you're no longer working, let's say, and God
redirects you to something else, your taxes are going to
come down. Now's the time where you get the the
most benefit from the the traditional contribution where you're getting
(41:22):
the deduction currently. But we'd like to have something in
Roth because what the unknown is, what are future tax
rates going to be. You know, we know what they're
going to be for the next, you know, several years.
But what about 10 or 20 years down the road?
We have no idea. And so I like the fact
that you have in Roth. So given you've got about
200,000 traditional 100 and Roth with those new contributions, what
(41:46):
you may find is prioritizing the traditional between now and
retirement over the next two years may allow you to
maximize the benefit of that tax deduction as you're at
the high end of your earning potential. Hope that helps. Kathy.
Thanks for your call, Nathan. Finance is a partnership between
Moody Radio and Faith by Omar. To hear Alisa and
Jim serving us. We'll see you tomorrow.
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the
kingdom of heaven. Matthew five verse three. Hi, I'm Rob West.
In the final episode of our financial ethics series, we're
tackling a message that promises health and wealth but often
leads to heartache. The prosperity gospel. Doctor David W Jones
joins us to unpack its dangers and point us back
(00:30):
to a truly biblical view of blessing and provision. Then
it's on to your calls at 800 525 7000. That's
800 525 7000. This is faith and finance. Live biblical
wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, we're honored to welcome
(00:50):
back Doctor David W Jones as we conclude our financial
ethics series. He's a senior professor of Christian ethics at
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and co-author of health, wealth, and
Happiness How the Prosperity Gospel Overshadows the Gospel of Christ. Well,
that's especially fitting because today we're diving into that very topic. And, David,
(01:11):
it's always a pleasure to have you here.
S2 (01:13):
Hi, Rob. It's good to be here.
S1 (01:15):
David, to start us off, you've written that the prosperity
gospel redefines God's blessing. Material terms. So let's begin at
the foundation. How should Christians what it truly means to
be blessed?
S2 (01:28):
You know, Rob, um, a couple verses that come to
my mind. One from the New Testament and maybe one
from the old, uh, Romans four eight Paul writes and says,
blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not
impute sin. Uh, and I mean that in itself that
is true blessing. Uh, those of us who have been
forgiven of our sins, and Jeremiah 17, seven and eight,
(01:50):
an Old Testament passage here. Jeremiah writes and says, blessed
is the man who trusts in the Lord, and whose
hope is in the Lord. For he shall be like
a tree planted by the waters, which spreads out its
roots by the river, and will not fear when heat comes,
but its leaf will be green, and will not be
anxious in the year of drought, nor will cease from
(02:12):
yielding fruit. And these verses are so important, because they
define for us in biblical categories what true blessing actually is.
And one of the things here, I think, that we'll
talk about as we look at prosperity gospel, is a
foundational problem for the prosperity gospel is blessing is almost
always defined within the prosperity gospel along material lines, which
(02:36):
is not necessarily the biblical category of blessing.
S1 (02:40):
Yeah. That's helpful. I know you also challenge in your
book the notion that faith should guarantee prosperity. So how
with outcome distort the gospel's true promise?
S2 (02:52):
Yeah. What, um, what happens oftentimes within a prosperity viewed as, uh,
like a force that is generated by believers. That believers
can then use in order to, um, bring about blessings
from God. Because of that faith that was manifested. Whereas
(03:14):
I would want to say no, that faith, actually, uh,
it's not a self-generated faith is, uh, our trusting in
God's revealed grace. Uh, faith is a gift of God
that he gives to us. And so, with those differing
ideas of faith, um, I think the prosperity gospel, it's
(03:34):
prone to define salvation almost as a quid pro quo
transaction between man and God. But biblically defined would biblical faith.
I'd want to say that salvation is a a grace
transaction between God and man.
S1 (03:48):
Mm. Yeah, that's really helpful. Um, in your book, you
mentioned that prosperity theology often teaches a faith Formula. If
you believe strongly enough, God will reward you. Explain the
problems with this view and how it differs from a
biblical understanding of faith.
S2 (04:04):
Hey, you know, Rob, it's interesting if you, um, if
you talk to a bunch of Christians and ask them
to define faith, you'll get a a lot of different answers.
And I think, unfortunately, uh, sometimes faith is defined as
almost like sincere irrationality, uh, and faith, it's almost viewed
as if unbelievable, you know, that they are. Whereas I
(04:27):
don't want to say no, biblically speaking, as I said earlier,
you know, faith is trusting in God's revealed grace. Uh,
you know, faith is it's akin to the eyesight of
the soul. Uh, and I would I would want to
view faith as being incredibly rational and reasonable. Now, it's
not a math equation, but Hebrews 11 one says that
(04:48):
faith is the substance of things hoped for and the
evidence of things not seen. And so we see there
the rationality and the reasonableness of faith.
S1 (04:56):
Hmm. Yeah. We're talking today about the prosperity gospel with
Doctor David W Jones. He's senior professor of Christian ethics
at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. More on this important topic.
Just around the corner. Don't go anywhere. We're just getting started.
(05:23):
Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live.
Today we're wrapping up our financial ethics series, dealing with
some hard questions around money and our worldview coming from Scripture. Today,
the focus the prosperity gospel. David W Jones is with us.
He's senior professor of Christian ethics at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.
(05:44):
He's also the co-author of health, wealth, and Happiness How
the Prosperity Gospel Overshadows the Gospel of Christ. And before
the break, David was laying a foundation for faith and
how it relates to our finances, how God rewards us.
And we're going to continue to unpack this topic. David,
(06:04):
the prosperity gospel doesn't just reshape what we expect from God,
it also changes how we view suffering. So why is
a biblical theology of suffering so crucial for following Jesus faithfully?
S2 (06:17):
Yeah, Rob, you know, I think a driving force behind
the prosperity gospel. It's this desire to escape suffering. And
of course, that's true not just among those who follow
the prosperity gospel, but that's true in general, I think,
among human beings. But I think it's important that we
recognize that suffering is an inevitable part of being a
(06:38):
human being in the fallen world. First Peter 412 Peter
told the church, don't think it strange concerning the fiery trial,
which is to try you as though something strange were
happening to you. and Peter implies that it's suffering. It's
just going to be part of living in the fallen world.
And even as Paul told the church in second Timothy
(07:01):
312 that all who desire to live godly in Christ
will suffer persecution. Uh, and so the idea is just
that suffering, uh, it's inevitable. And I think we could
all look back on our lives. And I think most
people would agree with the statement that suffering is the
crucible of character. Uh, it's it can be a very
(07:22):
effective tool in the process of sanctification. And I know
just looking back on my life, I could say the
times when I've suffered the most have been the times
when I've drawn closest to Christ and have been made
the most like him. Uh. And so. Well, we don't
want to develop some type of unhealthy martyr complex and
unnecessarily seek suffering. We can recognize that suffering is part
(07:47):
of living in the fallen world, and suffering is one
of the one of the tools that God uses to
make us more like his son.
S1 (07:54):
Yeah, there's no doubt about that. You know, so much
of this conversation, David, comes down to God's intended means
of provision, which is really through work, not windfalls or
get rich quick schemes. So how does this vision that
you talk about in your book uphold human dignity and
align with scriptures teaching on work, being God's design?
S2 (08:16):
You know, Rob, a theme that we've brought up over
a series on financial ethics. It's the idea that, you know,
God's a creator who made us. He made human beings
in his image in order to create, uh, to work.
As a matter of fact, that's the very first command
that God ever gave to humanity was to go forth
and to procreate. That is, to create and in a sense, to, um,
(08:41):
to functionally bear God's image. And so God's design for
us is that we would labor, uh, and then as
we labor and we create. So we flourish. And you know,
it's it's important to, to not forget that God doesn't
give us random commands in Scripture, but rather what we
(09:02):
see is that God actually created us to do that
which he tells us to do. And so if labor
leading to productivity and flourishing and and wealth, sometimes, if
that is the divine design, then we need to be
careful about any type of theology or any type of
(09:24):
activity that would create wealth apart from labor and apart
from work, because not only is that going to be
a violation of how God has designed us, but it's
also going to be profoundly unfulfilling to us because God
actually made us to do again that which he told
us to do.
S1 (09:43):
Yeah. Well, that's such a big idea. That really is
at the core of this entire conversation. Station. David, you
also note that certain biblical promises, when removed from their
historical and covenantal context, can be weaponized by.
S2 (09:57):
Prosperity type of theology. They'll have certain proof, texts, verses,
and passages that they'll cite in order to support their ideas.
And I could give you just a few examples. Um,
second Corinthians eight nine comes to mind. And in that
passage Paul says, for you know the grace of our
Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for
(10:20):
your sakes he became poor, that you through his poverty
might become rich. And if we recite this verse in isolation, uh,
it might appear to be teaching that Christ came and
died for us in order that we might become, you know, healthy,
wealthy and wise. But when you go when you look
at the context of Second Corinthians eight nine, what we
(10:41):
see is that in that passage, Paul isn't talking about
a material increase. Crease. He's talking about our spiritual condition.
That is, we were spiritually bankrupt, unable because of our depravity,
and we needed God to come down and solve our problem.
And so he who was rich came down and became poor,
(11:02):
that we might become spiritually rich in him. And that's
a completely different interpretation than what we might find amongst, um,
amongst those who talk about the prosperity again. There are
other passages as well, um, that we could talk about,
but there's going to be pretty much kind of the
same theme, uh, where a verse is taken out of
its context, uh, and it's bent towards, um, supporting a
(11:25):
particular goal in theology, uh, that folks like the prosperity
gospel advocates might have.
S1 (11:32):
Sure, the prosperity gospel often intersects with giving as well,
and the message from the prosperity gospel is that we
give in order to get. But clearly, Scripture presents a
much richer picture of generosity. So talk for a second
about how biblical giving differs. I call seed faith teaching.
S2 (11:52):
Yeah. You know, it's it's so important, Rob. You know,
as as all of us, um, as we hopefully, uh,
desire to, to give to our churches and other Christian organizations, uh,
it's so important that we ask ourselves that question of
what is my motivation? Uh, why am I actually giving?
And what is driving this act of generosity that I'm
(12:12):
engaging in? And I think oftentimes what we see is that, uh,
those who engage in seed faith giving, which is tied
to the prosperity gospel, their motivation for giving, uh, is
really their own personal financial increase. And so their giving is, um,
you could say, oftentimes driven by, by greed and selfishness, uh,
(12:32):
which hopefully we would recognize as not laudable motivations, whereas
biblical giving ought to be motivated by grace, it ought
to focus on love of God and love of neighbor.
It ought to be driven by that idea that all
that I'm I'm stewarding is God's anyways. And because I
love him and his ministry and because I love neighbor
(12:55):
and want to want to help those in my community
or elsewhere that need help. So this is why I give.
And so again, it's that motivation is is it greed
or is it grace or is it guilt or what
is what's driving my giving? And the goal is motivated
by love of God and love of neighbor in all
(13:16):
that we do.
S1 (13:17):
Dave. Tie a bow on this. What's the one takeaway
you would leave our audience with today?
S2 (13:22):
You know, I would. I would hope that as followers
of Christ that we would seek our lives about him,
about his glory, not about our increase, not about our
own prosperity, but about flourishing and being made in the
image of his son.
S1 (13:38):
Yes. Excellent. Well said. Thanks for your time, my friend.
S2 (13:41):
Thank you.
S1 (13:42):
That's David W Jones. He's the author of health, wealth,
and Happiness How the Prosperity Gospel Overshadows the Gospel of Christ.
Your calls are next. 800 525 7000. We'll be right back.
S3 (14:02):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S4 (14:27):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and finance.
S1 (14:29):
Live here on Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. Boy, great
to finish out that.
S4 (14:33):
Series.
S1 (14:34):
Today with Doctor David W Jones. We covered a lot
of ground over the last several talked about financial ethics.
We talked about giving to homeless people and just how
we should navigate that when someone's asking for money on
the side of the road. We talked about gambling, we
talked about sports betting, and then today we finish it
up with, uh, the prosperity gospel. Hopefully it helped you
(14:56):
to think deeper and biblical about some of these hard
topics related to money. Well, we want to turn the
corner now and here in just a moment at least.
We want to take your calls and questions on anything financial.
So now is the time to get your call in.
That number is 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
(15:18):
Whatever is on your mind today in your financial life.
That's what we want to talk about. Again that number 805,000.
We will get to those here in just a moment. Uh,
in the news, President Trump has signed, as of yesterday,
a major trade deal with Japan slashing planned auto tariffs
from 25% down to 15% and avoiding other punitive levies.
(15:40):
Analysts say this signals easing trading tensions and may spur
additional agreements with other countries so far. Market reactions have
been mixed. Uh, you know, the market started off fairly flat.
It's gained some momentum here as we press toward the
end of the trading day. The Dow Jones up 500
plus points. That's a little over 1%. The S&P 500
(16:04):
up three quarters of a point and the Nasdaq up
a little better than a half a point. That's as
traders pour over earnings and to these latest trade deals.
By the way, some observers say that increased cooperation and
trade with Japan, strengthening the economies of both nations could
be another strategic check on China. That's something to keep
(16:26):
an eye on as more of these trade flows expected
to come soon. Start to see the light of day.
All right. The lines are filling up. That means you
have questions. So let's dive in Nebraska today. Marcy, thank
you for calling. Go right ahead.
S5 (16:39):
Well. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I'll
just tell you a little bit about myself. I am
an almost 79 year old widow with two children. And, um,
I don't have very much in holdings. I have a home,
which is very, I think within $3,000 or something of
being paid for. I own my car outright, and I
(17:02):
have maybe about $30,000 in securities. It has come down from,
you know, where it used to be. And I have
to take out some every year for the required distribution.
So this is my question. Um, I don't want things
to have to go into probate for my children if
my house hasn't been finished paying for, for instance, I
(17:22):
don't want house payments to be due. And, you know,
they don't maybe even have a way to take care
of that. So I was looking at the irrevocable trust way,
and I spoke with a lawyer and, um, found out
that that was going to be like at least $1,000.
And then in the meantime, and it may have been
(17:43):
on your program, I heard about the transfer on death
deed and Nebraska, uh, you they they have that we
can do that. And I realized that, um. I realized
that they're different, but I'm just wondering, in my case,
(18:05):
which would be better for me, which avenue would be
better to go?
S1 (18:09):
Yes. Very good. Um, well, I think it does just
come down to what you're trying to accomplish. Um, you know,
with the revocable trust. And that's typically what you would
be thinking of, not an irrevocable trust. An irrevocable trust,
by the way, is permanent. You can't change it. And
if really what you're looking for is just to, uh,
(18:30):
create an efficient transfer of your estate, including your home
and other assets, uh, a revocable trust will accomplish that,
whereby your assets can be handled by a trustee either
before your death, if you're incapacitated at death, or even
beyond death based on the provisions of the trust. Avoids probate.
Avoids the time and expense related to it. It's private,
(18:52):
not a part of the public record, and that's often
why it's used. Now, if, as you said, your estate
is fairly simple and the primary concern you have is
related to your home, that's where that transfer on death deed,
which to your point, is available in Nebraska, not available
in every state, allows you to essentially name a beneficiary. Now,
(19:15):
retain full control during your life and bypass probate when
you pass. It's simple and it's inexpensive. It has to
be signed and witnessed and notarized and recorded within 30 days.
And you know, the it can be a very effective
tool for for what you're describing. And it would avoid
(19:35):
some of the complexity of and cost really, of putting
a revocable trust in place that's going to cost several
thousand dollars, and everything that would be subject to the
trust would need to be titled in the trust. And if, again,
really all we're looking at is the home, that's where
the the Tod deed, uh, is a simpler and more
(19:55):
cost effective solution. Um, you know, for you to accomplish
these purposes. So I think, you know, I might go
back to that same attorney and just say, you know,
would you be able to draft a Tod deed for
me to put in place so that I can ensure
that my kids get the house quickly and efficiently outside
of probate at my passing? And that would certainly accomplish that.
S5 (20:18):
Okay. Because the little bit of holdings I have, they
both are beneficiaries on that already, and it's not like
they would need them immediately, you know? So, um, that
really makes me feel a lot better because I came
up kind of to a halt with this, uh, revocable
trust being so expensive and and carrying, um, covering so
much more than what I am really needing. So I
(20:40):
really appreciate that. That gives me confidence.
S1 (20:43):
Excellent. So glad to hear that, Marcy. Hey, I want
to send you a book. It's called Wise Women Managing Money.
It was written by Miriam Neff when her husband passed away,
as she was kind of thrust in the role of
managing the family finances. I think it'll be an enjoyable
read for you and encouraging and real practical as well.
It's our gift to you, so stay on the line.
We'll get it out to you. By the way, to, uh,
her point, uh, mortgage doesn't go away when the parents die.
(21:07):
The kids inherit the home. They continue making the payments,
and then they can decide what to do with it,
refinance or sell it at that point. Thanks for being
with us today. We'll be right back.
S4 (21:26):
Great to have you with us today.
S1 (21:27):
On Faith in finance live here on Moody Radio. I'm
Rob West. Hey, if you listen to the program regularly,
perhaps you have found something of value, and you'd like
to help us reach more people with this message of
faithful stewardship. A great way to do that is by
becoming a partner. Fe5 partners support the ministry at $35
a month or more, or $400 or more per year.
(21:48):
And as a thank you to you for helping us
with listener supported faith V, we send you four issues
of our magazine, Faithful Steward. Actually the issue number three
that comes out in September. I just saw it. It's
headed off to the printer today. It's amazing. It's full
of some incredible content, plus all of our new studies
and devotionals, including my devotional that I'm authoring myself. It's
(22:12):
coming out this fall. I can't wait for you to
get your hands on it. That will be available to partners,
and each study and devotion that follows after it. Plus
pro access to the Faith V app. All that comes
by being a partner. If you want to learn more
or become one of our Faith V partners, we'd certainly
be grateful. Just go to faith. That's faith. field, and
(22:34):
we'd love to invite you into our partner program even today.
All right, let's head back to the phones. By the way,
we have three lines open. 800 525 7002. Uh, Tampa, Florida. Hi, Andy.
Go ahead.
S6 (22:47):
Hi, Rob. Thank you for your program and your and
all your expertise on personal finance. It's a wealth of
information here.
S1 (22:55):
Awesome. Thank you.
S6 (22:56):
Question for you. My question for you today is I
have a furniture store credit card with an $8,000 credit limit.
I have no balance on it. The problem is that
the store closed its doors last year. How do I
take care of that? As far as my credit is concerned?
S1 (23:16):
Yeah. Uh, it's it's a great question. Um, you know,
it is true that canceling a credit card can lower
your credit score. Uh, but in this case, because the
store went out of business, you may not have much
control over it. What's likely happening is that when the
store closes, the issuing bank, not the store itself, decides
(23:38):
whether to keep the card active or shut it down
if the bank closes the card. Your credit score might
dip slightly because there's two factors that are driven by it.
You know, most of these or either of these may
or may not apply to you. Number one is it's
going to lower your total available credit. So if it
had an $8,000 credit line and you had a zero
(24:00):
balance that raised your total available credit across all your
cards by 8000. And if your carrying balances on other cards,
when this 8000 comes out of the total available, then
the balance you're carrying from month to month is now
a higher percentage of your total, which is what's called
your credit utilization. That could, you know, that change could
(24:22):
cause your score to dip. Again, that may or may
not apply. Secondly, when the card is closed and it's
removed from your credit history, that in and of itself could,
you know, again, very slightly lower that score, but it's
going to be modest and it's going to be temporary.
So if you wanted I mean first thing you could
(24:43):
do is just do nothing. Second, you could call the
card issuer and you could ask, are they closing the
account or will it be converted to another open card
they offer? If they keep it open, you can leave
it there. Or you could just go ahead and close
it if you're not planning to use it, even if
it's temporary. I mean, even if it's going to result
in a temporary dip in your credit score, which, by
(25:04):
the way, would probably be only 20, 30, 40 points
at the most. I think that'll come right back in
a couple of months. And I would rather you go
ahead and close it because, you know, every account that's
open is one more account that has the ability to
be compromised. And if you're not out looking for a
new car and planning to get a loan or out
shopping for a mortgage, you know your score. Moving around
(25:27):
20 to 50 points in any direction is really minor
and insignificant. And so I would just go ahead and
get the account closed regardless of what their plan is.
And that way you don't have to keep up with it.
Does that make sense though?
S6 (25:41):
Absolutely does. Absolutely does. Thank you very much, Rob.
S1 (25:45):
All right Andy. God bless you, my friend. Thanks for
calling today. Uh. Let's see. Florida is where we're headed next. Hi, Jonathan.
How can I help?
S7 (25:52):
Hey. How's it going? Um, so, unfortunately, I had my
grandmother pass away recently, and, um, she left an inheritance,
and so she wanted to give the inheritance to the grandkids,
but she never got to it because she was getting older,
wasn't feeling well, and never put it on her will. Um, now,
(26:13):
my parents, I think, are the beneficiaries of the inheritance,
and they want to give a portion to each grandkid,
but they don't know the best way to go about
that Without it getting tax significantly so. Is there a
way to minimize the taxes on that?
S1 (26:34):
There really shouldn't be any taxes you know. If they
are the ones. So let me just make sure I'm
clear here though. First she had no will. Is that right?
S7 (26:43):
She did have a will.
S1 (26:45):
Oh, it just wasn't updated to include the grandkids.
S7 (26:48):
Updated.
S1 (26:49):
Got it. Okay. So if she passed away with a will.
And the parents, her children were the ones that received everything,
then they've received that. Uh, there's not any inheritance tax federally.
The only tax would be if the estate had to
pay tax before they got the money, but that would
be responsible to the estate. And that only kicks in,
(27:09):
at least based on the current IRS rules and regs
above $13 million. So unless this was a pretty massive estate,
there's not any taxes, there's no estate taxes and there's
no inheritance tax at a federal level. So now the
money belongs to the parents. And they got it tax
free as an inheritance, and that if they want to honor, uh,
you know, their grandma's intent and pass the money to
(27:31):
the grandkids, uh, you know, they can just use the
annual gift tax exclusion. So in 2025, they can gift
up to $19,000 per person or 38,000 per grandchild as
a couple without filing any gift tax return. If the
amount is larger, they can still gift it tax free.
(27:52):
They would just need to let the IRS know through
IRS form 709, and no taxes are due unless they
gift over their lifetime in the aggregate more than $13 million.
So there's not really going to be any taxes due.
The other option is, you know, beyond just that straight
cash gift of of 19,000 per person or 38,000 to
(28:17):
any one individual as a married couple, um, they could
also make contributions direct to a 529 college savings plan,
which would be great for educational purposes. The funds grow
tax free. Um, you know, they also could set aside
an account for the minor children, grandchildren and invest the
money earmarked for the child with a plan, you know,
(28:39):
to hand it off at the age of majority or
when the child is, you know, spiritually and financially mature
enough to receive it. Really? In any case, there should
not be any tax implications, uh, either in, in the
parents receiving the assets or the, the further gift from
the parents down to the grandkids.
S7 (28:58):
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Because they have this idea that it's
going to be taxed if they transfer it. So they're
doing it in small increments through Zelle. But I think
I was pretty sure that was more efficient ways of
doing that.
S1 (29:11):
Yeah. It's just unnecessary because like I said, they really
can give any amount they want if they keep it
under 19,000 per child or 38,000 as a couple going
to one child. Then there under that annual gift exclusion
per individual. And they don't even have to tell the
IRS about it. Um, so as long as they don't
(29:33):
want to do more than $38,000 between the two of
them to any one individual, they're done. No taxes whatsoever. Now,
if they go above that, it's still fine. They just
have to tell the IRS and the IRS is going
to apply it to their lifetime gift exemption of $13 million.
So there's not any need to kind of dole this
out in very small increments, because there really are no
(29:56):
taxes due on this. So have them look that up.
And what they're looking for is the annual gift exclusion.
That's really what you want to, you know, key them into.
And what they will find is that that allows them
to do pretty much all the giving they probably want
to do. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
(30:21):
Glad to have you with us today on Faith and finance. Live.
I'm Rob West. Heading right back to the phones. Northwest
Indiana is where Rob is located. Go ahead sir.
S3 (30:32):
Hello.
S1 (30:32):
Hi. How can I help?
S8 (30:34):
Hi. Hey, Rob. I just have a quick question. Um,
I've been seeing, uh, you know, just internet. Um, we
currently go through a broker for, uh, like, vehicle homeowners,
you know, um, and we've got, like, a, uh, an
umbrella policy, so we kind of bundle our insurance. Okay. Um,
(30:56):
and what I've seen is. And is it okay if
I say with, uh, the website is or, uh, I
don't know if you've ever heard.
S1 (31:05):
That's fine.
S8 (31:06):
Okay. I think it's called, uh, insured duo. Uh, duo. There's, um,
a guy that his name is Dave Ramsey. I don't
know if you've ever heard of him, but. Sure. Uh,
he just. I've been seeing a couple things that he
just said that, hey, don't pay. You know, basically a
like if you go through, let's say, a state farm
(31:26):
or like a big firm, basically you're just paying somebody's commission.
You know what I'm saying? And, um, you know, this, uh,
website that I just told you, you just, like, put
in your vehicles, you know, age and, uh, it literally
could save you a couple of hundred dollars, you know,
(31:46):
per year. Uh, you know, depending on what kind of
vehicles you have. But, you know, I don't know if
you've ever heard of it. You know, my concern would
be just, uh, you know, really, um, you know, the,
the safety of it, you know what I'm saying? Like,
are you really getting good insurance? And your thoughts on it?
S1 (32:07):
Yeah, it's a great question. Uh, you know, it's really
important when you're choosing insurance to determine what is most
important to you. Uh, you know, is it the lowest premium? Uh,
is it the fact that you want really great customer
service and great claims handling. Um, do you want to
be able to customize and, you know, uh, you know,
some policies have options and writers that, you know, allow
(32:30):
you to add certain additional coverages. What about the financial
strength of the company itself? And, you know, I mean,
I think one of the benefits you get when you
go with, you know, some of the larger, more reputable,
established insurers like Farmers and State Farm is you're getting
that proven track record of strong claims support. Um, you know,
(32:52):
you're getting the bundled discounts, you're getting perhaps a, a
local agent who can advocate for you and you can
walk into and look them in the eye. You're getting
financial stability, but with that comes higher premiums. You're paying
for the kind of brand and service level. And perhaps there's,
you know, less flexibility on underwriting. So, you know, regardless
(33:13):
of whether you, uh, you know, you use a search
engine to kind of compare all these different insurance companies,
or you go direct or you use an independent agent,
I think you've really got to decide what is the
primary objective. Are you solving for a budget line item,
you know, that has to come in under a certain number,
or are you really looking for, you know, that that
(33:36):
trusted insurance partner that you know has to compete at
the price level? I mean, we can't just spend an
unlimited amount, but where you're also looking at other factors
to make this decision. And there's probably a sweet spot
there that, you know, considers what you can afford, but
also takes into account, you know, how important some of
(33:57):
these other benefits are, namely the financial strength, perhaps the
local representative. But then perhaps most importantly, because this is
what matters when you need it. You know, how effective
are they going to be at claims support and actually
coming through and, you know, making you whole and doing
it in a in a timely fashion, uh, you know,
when that time comes. Does that make sense?
S8 (34:19):
Yeah. Well, one last question. I don't know if you
got just a quick second. Um, sure. Do you do
you recommend, uh, at any given point? Um, I'm looking
possibly to be retiring. My wife's probably going to be
retiring in the next year or year and a half. Uh,
would you recommend always having an umbrella policy? Um, just
(34:40):
as a precaution, if, you know, if you can afford it.
S1 (34:45):
Uh, I do, yeah. I mean, I think it makes
a lot of sense. Uh, I've got an umbrella policy.
I think it's something that's often overlooked. Um, you know,
they it's one of the most affordable ways to protect
your assets and give you peace of. Give you peace
of mind. It provides that extra liability coverage, usually starting
at about $1 million on top of your auto and
(35:07):
homeowners policies. So if you're in a car accident, uh,
you know, and God forbid, there's, uh, you know, a
major injury of some kind, perhaps of another person. And
there was a a lawsuit filed, or you had a
visitor to your home that was injured on the property or,
you know, a defamation claim. I mean, it's going to
cover those legal fees and judgments that go beyond your
(35:30):
base policy. And, you know, that is a significant protection. Uh,
you know, to your retirement accounts, your investments, your home.
And and so I think it's, uh, it's absolutely a
low cost and wise safety net, including for retirees, because,
you know, you've worked hard to build the assets that
(35:51):
you've got. And this is going to put that added
layer of protection at a reasonable cost over something that
is unforeseen.
S8 (36:00):
Excellent. Okay. Thank you for your, uh, your time and
your wisdom. I really appreciate it. Rob, you do a
great job.
S1 (36:07):
Thanks, my friend. Yeah, I appreciate that. And thanks for
being on the program today. Uh, let's go to Indiana. Hi, Will.
How can I help you?
S9 (36:14):
Hi, Rob, thanks for taking my call. Hey, I just
had a quick question. My my pastor put out a
challenge to our congregation about selling some things that that
we may have in access and taking that money and
giving it to, you know, to the poor, which in
this case was some mission in Honduras that they're trying
to start a feeding center for. So my question is,
is I have some things that I can sell. However,
(36:36):
I also have some debt like over $10,000 in debt.
So I guess I'm just looking for some guidance on
like is there a happy medium? Obviously I know it's
what God wants me to do. However, you know, I
really want to get this this credit card debt taken
care of. So yeah, just appreciate any kind of godly wisdom.
And thank you so much for taking my call.
S1 (36:55):
Absolutely. Well, it's a great question. Listen, and I understand
you're asking it because you want to honor the Lord.
And I really appreciate that. Um, and so I think
that's the first step because, remember, God doesn't need our money.
He has the cattle on a thousand hills. He has
every ability to provide for these missionaries. The question is,
is this the time for you to step in and
(37:16):
be a part of that assistance that God will provide?
And I think that's between you and the Lord. New
Testament giving, I think, is giving sacrificially. It's giving proportionately
to what God has provided to us and in keeping
with our income. So I think there's a systematic element
to it. It's absolutely giving cheerfully. You know, second Corinthians nine,
(37:37):
each of you should give, as you have decided in
your heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves
a cheerful giver. So I don't think there's really room, uh,
you know, in biblical giving for guilt based giving, it really,
if anything, should be a conviction from the Holy Spirit,
but it should be an overflow of our worship to God. Now,
both of these things you're describing your ability to give,
(37:59):
to support a full time missionary and your desire to
be out from under consumer debt, which shores up your
financial foundation as a steward or a manager of God's resources.
Those are both God honoring things, and I don't think
there's one, you know, one thing is better than another.
And so if you decided, you know, hey, I'm going
to continue to give proportionately in whatever systematic way you're doing. And,
(38:22):
you know, if it were me, I would not eliminate
that systematic giving at whatever percentage you're at, you know,
ever altogether, no matter what the situation. I mean, I
just think continuing to exercise that muscle, if it's done
with the right heart posture is a good thing. But
this may not be the season for you to go
above and beyond that, because you are so laser focused on,
(38:44):
you know, getting out from under this 24% interest credit card.
And that's a good thing. And when you're out from
under that and your financial house is in order, you're
going to have the ability to do even more. And
I think that's wonderful. Now, if there are other places
you could cut back so we don't have to choose
between the debt reduction and the giving, well, great. Let's
do that. But if you're kind of living right up
(39:06):
to the edge and man, this is a season where
you're doubling down on getting out of debt. You know,
I would say again, we don't want to give out
of guilt. And so I think this might be the
time for you to say, hey, I'm going to pass
on that. I'm going to focus on getting out of
credit card debt. But I can't wait because this is
my heart's desire. I can't wait to be able to
give as unto the Lord as he leads. You know,
(39:27):
when that time comes beyond what I've ever been able
to give before. And I think an element of that
giving for a maturing believer is a gift that we feel,
you know, it's a sacrificial gift, but I don't think
you need to feel like that. That absolutely has to
be right now. If if you really you and your
wife have a conviction to get out of consumer debt
(39:47):
at this point. Is that helpful though at all? Will.
S9 (39:52):
Very helpful. Thank you so much, Robert. I really appreciate it.
Definitely great advice. Thank you so much.
S1 (39:57):
Appreciate you on the program today. Uh let's see. We're
going to finish up today. And Cleveland, Ohio Cathy, go
right ahead.
S10 (40:03):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm 62.
I'm looking forward to retiring at 65. And I'm right
now I have about 200,000 in my normal 401 K. That's, uh,
before tax. And then I have 100,000 in my 401 K.
That's after tax the Roth. And I'm putting about 30%
(40:26):
away out of my pay now. And I'm just worried
that I should I'm putting it in the Roth and
maybe I should be splitting it. Or maybe I should
be putting it all in the before tax.
S1 (40:37):
Yeah. I mean, there's not a perfect answer here. The
research that I've seen says this, this is just a
rule of thumb, is all it is, is that you
take your age and you add 20 to it, and
that's the portion that should go in the traditional or
the pre-tax. And then the balance goes in the Roth.
And what that recognizes is closer and closer to retirement.
(40:59):
You're going to benefit more if, in fact, you're at
the peak of your earning potential, where you're in the
highest bracket you'll ever be. And when you get to
retirement because you're no longer working, let's say, and God
redirects you to something else, your taxes are going to
come down. Now's the time where you get the the
most benefit from the the traditional contribution where you're getting
(41:22):
the deduction currently. But we'd like to have something in
Roth because what the unknown is, what are future tax
rates going to be. You know, we know what they're
going to be for the next, you know, several years.
But what about 10 or 20 years down the road?
We have no idea. And so I like the fact
that you have in Roth. So given you've got about
200,000 traditional 100 and Roth with those new contributions, what
(41:46):
you may find is prioritizing the traditional between now and
retirement over the next two years may allow you to
maximize the benefit of that tax deduction as you're at
the high end of your earning potential. Hope that helps. Kathy.
Thanks for your call, Nathan. Finance is a partnership between
Moody Radio and Faith by Omar. To hear Alisa and
Jim serving us. We'll see you tomorrow.
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