December 3, 2025 • 42 mins
Maybe burnout isn’t a badge of honor but a warning light from God. When life feels out of balance, it’s often a sign we’re pushing past the limits God designed for our good. On the next Faith & Finance Live, Carey Nieuwhof (NEW-hoff) joins Rob West to share how we can find biblical rest and live with renewed purpose. Then, it’s on to your calls. That’s Faith & Finance Live—biblical wisdom for your financial journey, weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:08):
Are you living at your best or just barely getting by?
Maybe burnout isn't a badge of honor, but a warning
light from God. Hi, I'm Rob West. When life feels
out of balance, it's often a sign we're pushing past
the limits. God's designed for our good. Today, Kari Neuhoff
joins us to share how we can find biblical rest
(00:28):
and live with renewed purpose by managing our time and
energy God's way. And then it's on to your calls
at 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. This is
faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well,
it's a joy to welcome Kari Neuhoff to the program.
(00:50):
He's best selling author, speaker, leadership expert, and founding pastor
of Connexus Church in Ontario, Canada. Kari, I've been looking
forward to this. Thanks for being here.
S2 (01:00):
I've been looking forward to it too. Thank you so
much for having me.
S1 (01:03):
Gary, we're going to unpack your book today at your
best How to get time, energy and priorities working in
your favor. And I know it struck a chord with
so many readers. Certainly I'm among that group. Let's back up.
Why did you write this? Why the topic of burnout?
S3 (01:20):
Well, I wrote it because I burned out. So about
a decade.
S2 (01:24):
Into my leadership, almost 20 years ago now, I was
on top of the world in many respects fast growing church,
new people every weekend, double digit growth. And, uh, I
remember being invited to speak at a conference in Atlanta.
Biggest audience to date at that time, 2500 leaders from
around the world. And I thought, does it get any
(01:45):
better than this? And then, uh, I flew home, my
wife and kids were with me. And when we landed
in Toronto, my, you know, home city, it's like I
fell off a cliff. I just had worked so hard
for so long. Um, you know, I probably met all
the symptoms for clinical depression, and I'm not a depressed person, but, like,
(02:05):
lost my motivation, lost my passion. And what happened was,
you know, like so many leaders, success is intoxicating. We
were growing at, I think, 30% a year, year after
year after year. And my terrible math equation was more
people equals more hours. You know, if you get a promotion,
what is it, Rob? Some more hours, right? That's right. So, um,
(02:26):
and I didn't declare a finish line, so my body did,
and it kind of went on strike. And that lasted
about 4 or 5 months. Darkest period in my life. Um,
and as I was slowly finding health again, I can't
live this way. I got to figure out a new
normal because normal got me burned out. And so that
has spawned the last two decades of not only figuring
(02:50):
it out personally, but probably, you know, 7 or 8
years into recovery, I started sharing some of the principles
and I'm like, oh, wait a minute, I'm not alone
on this. This is like so many people's stories. And
what I found is my recovery didn't just work for me.
It started to help other people too. Mhm.
S1 (03:08):
Uh, let's sit in that for a second. Did it
catch you by surprise or did you see it coming
in any way?
S2 (03:14):
No, no, actually I wrote a book before your best called.
Didn't see it coming. No I didn't see it coming
I wasn't I had lots of people saw it coming.
Now here's the irony, right? I had people probably for
2 or 3 years prior to me burning out, tapping
me on the shoulder, going, hey, if you're not careful,
you're going to be burnt out. And you know what?
I thought because I was in my 30s, I was like,
(03:35):
you know, that's for weaklings. Yeah, weak people burn out.
I don't burn out. I'm stronger than that. The rules
don't apply to me. And you know what they did?
They did apply to me. And it honestly was one
of the biggest shocks in my life. It's like, what
do you mean? I'm out of gas? What do you mean?
I don't want to get out of bed in the morning.
What do you mean? I'm this dark and this depressed
(03:58):
and this, like, limping, barely moving on. It just. It
just shocked me. And even looking back on it, I'm like, yeah,
that was totally out of the blue. So were the
signs there? Absolutely. Who is blind to them? Me.
S1 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah. And that's normally the case. You talk about
burnout as the gap between what we're capable of and
what we're carrying. Unpack that for us for a second.
S2 (04:22):
Yeah. So, you know, the thing is, you know, we're
growing fast enough. And I mean, you know, in Canada,
a large church is very large churches, a thousand people.
And we were starting to crest that level. And I thought,
it can't get any more complicated than that. And when
I burned out, you know, I just thought, I can't
handle any more people. I can't handle any more responsibility.
(04:45):
I can't handle any of that. Well, fast forward two decades.
Guess what? I'm carrying a crazy amount. More Like, millions
of people have access to my podcast and my resources.
S1 (04:56):
Yes.
S2 (04:57):
And I have days off and I go to bed
and get eight and a half, nine hours sleep. So,
you know, burnout, if you're operating at that capacity, you
get hurt. But there's a lot more if you rethink
your rhythm.
S1 (05:10):
Mm. That is so good. Well, we're going to continue
to unpack this after the break. What does it look
like to go from burnout to biblical rest? Carey Nieuwhof. Pastor,
speaker and best selling author here today. Much more to come.
Just around the corner. Stay with us. Do you find
(05:34):
yourself at the end of your rope? Perhaps burnout is
a part of this season you're in right now, and
you're looking for a way out the path to biblical rest.
That's what we're talking about today with Kari Neuhoff. Kari
is a pastor, speaker, best selling author of the book
at your best. How to get time, energy, and priorities
working in your favor. Carry. Before the break. You described
(05:58):
this dark place you were at as you were at
seemingly the top of your game. Everything was working and
your church and and your speaking and writing. And all
of a sudden you found yourself in your own burnout.
And it was a journey that you walked with the
Lord and your family through. And you're, of course, now
on the other side of it. And I'm so delighted
(06:18):
because I'm confident there are so many in our listening
audience today who are in some version of that season
right now. One of the key ideas you talk about
is managing energy rather than time. Talk about that for
a second.
S2 (06:32):
You know the thing I started to rethink, uh, time
management because the problem was I was pretty good at
time management when I burned out. Like I was getting
better at it every year. And what I realized is
you're managing a fixed asset. Like you get 24 hours
in a day, no matter who you are, right? If
you became president of the United States, guess what you get.
Not a single minute more a day. If you get
(06:55):
promoted to CEO, guess what? You get not a single
minute more a day. And so I kind of realized that.
But then I also started studying energy. And a lot's
been done over the last 15 years on studying human energy.
But I realized not all 24 hours are created equal
like they're equal in time. But like I'm a morning person.
So 8 a.m. feels very different to me than 8 p.m.
(07:17):
some nights at 8 p.m.. You know, I'm just like,
all right, that's it. I want to go to bed. Right. So.
But 8 a.m., uh, I'm a writer. I'm working on
a new book right now, and, you know, the ideas flow. I'm. I'm,
you know, doing great. So maybe your your listeners can
relate because they're morning people or they're night owls or,
you know, they peak midday. A lot of people according
(07:37):
to the research, peak midday. But the bottom line is
I wanted to call my last book at your best.
I wanted to call it the three hour work day,
but it's already gone that that concept, but the idea
is like, on a really good day. I had a
writing sabbatical last week before, you know, we were going
to air with this. I, you know, wrote eight hours
a day, but there were only 3 or 4 really
(07:58):
good hours in that. And then the rest was kind
of review. And your brain cells. You know, it's like
your phone, you start at 100% or 80%, and then
you just wind down. And by 4:00 in the afternoon
there's 3%. So I call those peak energy zones your
your hours, your green zone because you're firing on all cylinders.
The opposite is your red zone. And so for me
(08:18):
that's 4 to 6 in the afternoon where, you know,
my battery's down to 3%. I need a double espresso
or a nap. One of the two or a run
or something to keep me going. Most people can relate
to that. So the key is, and this is what
made the biggest difference in the productivity we talked about
before the break is, um, when I work in my
(08:39):
green zone, I do my most important work, which for
me is writing, yes, new content as an author and
a speaker. If I do that my green zone, I
get exponential returns. If I wait and just fill it
up with breakfast meetings and this and that and the
other thing and, you know, trips to the drive through
for coffee. Um, and I try to do my most
(09:00):
important work in the afternoon or evening. Gong show. Gong show.
So what I encourage leaders to do is do what
you're best at when you're at your best. That's it.
When are you at your best? Take your most important
work for CEOs. It could be strategy. It could be key.
One on one meetings. Do it when you're at your
best because you know if you've got that part of
your to do list done, guess what? You can go home, man.
(09:22):
Like if I get if I get 3000 good words
written by 10 a.m., I don't care what the day brings,
I'm fine. When I was a pastor, if I had
my sermon done by Tuesday at noon and the rest
of the week doesn't really matter if I'm still struggling
for an idea. Friday at 5:00, guess who pays the price? Me?
My family, my wife. I'm miserable. The sermon isn't as good.
(09:44):
So you got to do what you're best at when
you're at your best.
S1 (09:47):
That is so good. And it's such a key idea,
not only in life, but in leadership, to your point.
So carry with those things that you're not best at.
What are some practical ideas on how you then transfer
those to others? What does that look like?
S4 (10:03):
Delegate delegate. Delegate.
S2 (10:05):
I'm working on a new piece, top ten books I've
read this year. I'm just literally putting the book titles in.
Someone else can fill in all the links, all the details, etc.
you just gotta delegate. You got to learn. Also to
say no. I think about it in terms of categorical
decision making. I did it again this morning. It was
a travel day yesterday, so I'm catching up on email.
(10:27):
There's a guy who wants to give me, you know,
pretty valuable free software in exchange for a 45 minute
zoom call. I'm like, you know what? I'm just going
to have to say, no, I'm sorry, I'm in monk
mode right now. I gotta I gotta write this book.
And that's really hard. Every single time I shut the
door and say no. But for too many years, particularly
in my 30s when my kids were young, you know,
(10:48):
when I said yes and I shouldn't have said yes,
guess who paid the price for that? My family. Because
saying yes to this guy that was a B or
C priority meant I said no to my kids on
a Saturday. It's like, oh, I don't want to live
that way anymore. And you know, so I think of
it as categorical decision making. I don't do breakfast meetings anymore. Why?
Because it competes with my green zone. It's just like, okay,
(11:11):
you know, the one hour meeting took three hours. By
the time you drove to the restaurant, got back, stopped
for coffee, chatted with people in the office. So it's
it's been a complete rewiring. Now you can make exceptions.
One of my very best friends texted me, hey, I'm
in Nashville. You want to get together for breakfast on Friday?
I can have breakfast with him, you know, but I'm
just not going to do it three days a week. Uh,
(11:33):
you know, all month long. Because then my most productive
time goes up in flames. Mhm.
S1 (11:39):
You know, I love that. after concluding his creation masterpiece,
God rested from his work. And you know, when we
indwell creation and that design, we work in God's way,
but we also rest in God's way. And you say
rest isn't a reward for finishing our work. It's a
part of how God designed us to work. So how
does that play out day to day for you?
S2 (12:01):
Well, you know, we think of rest, I think, as rehab.
It's like, ah, I worked so hard. I'm so tired,
I gotta rest. But yeah, it's talking to Rob Pelinka,
who's a general manager of the LA Lakers. And we
were talking about managing LeBron James. And listen, I know
less about sports than all of your listeners. Okay. So, uh,
but I know who LeBron James is. Sure. And he
(12:22):
says LeBron as he's gotten older pays so much attention. Prehab. Right.
So it's not just what am I doing after the
game recover? What am I doing before the game to
get ready? And that looks like 12 hours worth of
sleep and this diet and this exercise regime, etc.. So
you can look at Sabbath as rehab, or you can
look at it as prehab as well. And the other
(12:43):
thing that's interesting, because you referenced the biblical, uh, reference
to Sabbath, is that God delighted in his creation. He
looked back, he created something amazing, and he enjoyed it,
which is like really cool, right?
S1 (12:58):
Yeah, you're exactly right. Well, and we've only unfortunately got
about a minute left. But these limits are not only
a part of God's rhythm, but they're a blessing to us.
They're not obstacles. And this can actually relate to money
as well. So let's finish today with how this can
transform our approach to both time and money.
S2 (13:16):
Yeah. Margin on your calendar is a gift, right? If
you've got a free Saturday and it just says family
time on it, it's like, awesome, okay, you've said no
to everything else so you can say yes to your family.
The same goes with money. And I learned that lesson
over time. That margin is a gift financially. You know,
if your air conditioning goes or your furnace goes, You
(13:37):
have the money sitting in the bank. What a gift.
So I think the way you manage your time, the
way you manage even your health, and you steward that,
and also the way you manage your money. Really important.
S1 (13:46):
Yeah. Boy, this has been a gift today to us. Kari.
I so appreciate your time. Thanks for being with us.
We're going to have you back real soon.
S2 (13:53):
Okay, I'd love to.
S1 (13:54):
That's Kari Neuhoff, pastor, speaker and best selling author. You
can pick up this book wherever you buy your books.
It's called At Your Best. Also, check out the Kari
Neuhoff Leadership podcast. He'll be at Redeeming Money, our conference
for advisors in February. Tell your advisor to go to
redeeming Money.com. All right. Your calls are next. The number
800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. We'll be right back.
S5 (14:32):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:57):
Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live,
I'm Rob West. Looking forward to taking your calls and
questions today. The number to get in on the conversation
800 525 7000. Again that number is 800 525 7000.
You know, as we look at the counsel of Scripture,
we realize there is a lot in God's Word related
to money and money management. Why is that? Is it
(15:20):
that God wants something from us? No, I think it's
that God wants something for us. I think he recognizes,
and we certainly see this throughout Scripture, that if something
is going to compete with our hearts for first position,
it's most often going to be money and the things
that money can buy. Remember the parable of the sower?
What was it that choked out the word from bearing
a 3000 6000 fold return? Well, it was the deceitfulness
(15:43):
of riches and the desires for other things. Creator. Well,
that's not the way God designed it. And we take
our sights off the eternal and put them on the temporal. Well,
we want to reset that here on this program each day.
Help you think in light of a biblical worldview. Look
at the resources God has entrusted to you through the
lens of Scripture, and then address those very practical decisions
(16:07):
you're making in your financial life, using biblical principles to
make and guide us through the decision making process. So, uh,
give us a call when you have further questions today.
That number to get in on the conversation is 800
525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. We're going to dive in.
(16:28):
Let's begin in Florida today Tim. Go right ahead.
S6 (16:32):
Good afternoon. Thanks for your time. Uh, we're wondering where
to set some money aside for my 18 year old nephew. Uh, unfortunately,
his parents haven't done too much to set him up
for success. His mother never re-enrolled him in high school
two years ago after a move. And we're concerned that
(16:52):
the money we set aside for him could be wasted.
Or his mother manipulate the money away from him to contrast. Uh,
he has an eight year old little sister where we
want to put the money in a 529 where we
feel it's insulated against misuse since we can remain the
account holders for owners.
S1 (17:14):
Yeah, yeah. So you obviously want to keep this in
a restricted account where it can only be used for
his purpose and specifically related to college. That's where the
529 comes in. Just because it can only be used
for qualified educational expenses, and there's a beneficiary attached to it.
Kind of the the similar type of account but unrelated
(17:37):
to college would be what's called either a ugma or
a utma account. It's essentially a custodial account, either under
the Uniform Gifts to Minors Act or the Uniform Transfers
to Minors Act. But the idea is that it's an
account you control until the minor reaches his or her
state's age of majority, typically 18, but not always. And
(18:01):
then that gives them the flexibility to use that money
in any way they want. Now, if he would potentially
qualify for need based financial aid, that could work against him,
because in terms of the expected family contribution, that number
that determines need based age eligibility, an asset that's his
(18:21):
which a custodial account would be, is counted against him
at a much higher percentage than an asset owned by
somebody else, including the parents. So that would be the
only downside. But that account structure would, I think, apart from,
let's say, a trust which would be more expensive and
onerous to set up would be the kind of thing
that you're looking for that would ensure that the money
(18:43):
can only be used for his benefit, you know, prior
to the age of majority, and would become his asset
exclusively at the age of majority. Does that make sense?
S6 (18:54):
Yeah, except he's already 18.
S1 (18:58):
Okay. All right. So are you looking to gift some
money to him, or are you looking to put some
money aside and you're wanting him to receive it at
some point in the future when he's older?
S6 (19:09):
I think we'd like to gift it to him and
give it, given the opportunity to learn about money, use
and investing. But we just have this concern that his
mother will somehow get her hands on it and waste it.
S1 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah. Got it. Well, uh, I mean, I think
you could work with him, and, you know, he would
be able to open an account in his name. Uh, only, uh,
and then that money could then be invested. I mean,
she would not with him being, uh, over 18, 18
or older, she would not have the ability to withdraw
it if it was given to him directly, which you
(19:48):
can gift, you know, up to $18,000 per year to
as many individuals as you want. And for married couples,
you can do that twice. Each of you could gift
him $18,000 a year. So he had the ability to
gift him up to $36,000 without even letting the IRS
know you're doing it. If you went above that, it
still wouldn't be taxable. You'd just have to file a
(20:09):
gift tax form and let them know you're doing it,
because it would chip away at your lifetime gift exclusion,
which currently sits at above $13 million. So you'd have
to give a lot of money away to ever have
any tax implications, but that would allow you to gift
it directly to him. Now it's his money goes right
into his, you know, let's say checking account or right
into his brokerage account that he sets up in his
(20:32):
name only, which you could help him do, and his
mom would have no legal access to it at that point.
She couldn't make withdrawals or anything else.
S6 (20:41):
Okay. So it'd really just have to rely upon the
our direct relationship with him and talking about it with him.
And then it's really his. I mean, it's his money
at that point. And what he does with it is
up to him.
S1 (20:54):
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. If he turned around and gave gave
some of it to mom, that would be his prerogative.
But I think the idea would be you'd sit down,
you know, ahead of time and say, listen, I want
to bless you with a gift. Here's my desire. You know,
I want to help you get set up for the future.
I'm going to make a recommendation on what you do
with it. But ultimately, I'm trusting you, as now a
young adult, to take this and use it wisely. And
(21:16):
then I think you need to lay out based on
the time horizon, how you would advise him handling it.
So if he doesn't have an emergency fund or he
has high interest debt, I'd probably use it there first
in either a high yield savings or paying the debt directly.
If it's money you're wanting him to set aside for
the long term and invest, I would want to have
at least a five year time horizon on it. And
(21:38):
then you could use a robo advisor like Schwab Intelligent Portfolios.
But if it's money he's going to need in the
next five years, I'd keep it pretty liquid and pretty safe.
But I think that's the way to go. Hang on
the line, Tim. I want to send you a book
to pass along to him. We'll be right back. So
(22:00):
thankful to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live here on Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. We're
taking your calls and questions and good news. We've got
some lines open for you. That number to call 800
525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. You can call right now.
Let's go to Georgia. Karen. Go ahead.
S7 (22:20):
Hi, Rob. Thanks for taking my call and for your ministry. Um,
a couple of items for About Me. I have a
my husband and I have a house, a small house,
about 1000 square foot house on 18 acres of land.
We bought it from a gentleman who also has a
house on the property with 17 more acres of land.
(22:40):
So all together he had two houses and, um, 35
acres of land and sold us half of it. Um,
it is mortgage free. We bought it about four and
a half years ago. No mortgage on it. So 100% equity. Um,
I'll be 62 years old next year. So not drawing
Social Security yet? I do have a place where I
(23:02):
go to serve. I don't use the word work. This
is where I serve. And I make about $4,400 a month.
We're living pretty comfortably. My husband's an independent electrician and
just kind of does side jobs, so nothing, um, taxable.
My question is, is we have a non-profit prophet, where
God put on our hearts several hearts several years ago
(23:24):
to build a community or a safe haven shelter for
domestic violence survivors. We don't. We have nothing established yet.
All we have is the one little house. So we
always thought we would build a bigger house, make the
smaller house like a common area, washer and dryer and
kitchen kind of thing. And four days ago, we found
(23:48):
out that the owner of the other part of the
property has moved out of his house and he's selling it.
So we thought, huh, let's go see if we can
buy some of that land where we can build this
safe haven. Um, now he had we have found out
that through the real estate agent, we went and looked
last night at it. The real estate agent has told
us what the list price is, and has said that
(24:11):
the owner has agreed to knock 20% off of the
list price and sell it to us, because he knows
what our heart is and he knows what our mission is.
It's an incredible opportunity. A 35, $320,000 house and property. Um,
it would it would open up so much opportunity for us.
(24:31):
My question is, Rob, is, um, we don't have a
whole lot of savings, but we don't have a whole
lot of debt. Uh, we've got a credit card we're
getting ready to pay off, and we have another one
that we use monthly and pay off monthly. We don't
like paying interest. So the question is, and I know
reverse mortgage is not until I turn 62 I wouldn't
(24:53):
qualify for that. But I'm there next month. Um, so
reverse mortgage and rent out. We could possibly rent out
the smaller house for some additional revenue, or sell the
property and have that liquid assets or finance it. We
really don't know what the wisest choice is, but we
(25:14):
just want to do, Um, were we like God has
led us to do all these years?
S1 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah. Wow, I love it. I love your vision
for this and how amazing. It certainly seems like God's
involvement in this. Just the fact that you could get
this at a 20% discount for the ministry purposes. In fact, uh,
be great if he donated, you know, maybe a portion
of it to the ministry or something like that. But, uh,
at any rate, I realize you've got to have to
(25:43):
finance it to, to pick it up. What is the
status of the nonprofit currently, just in terms of its
ability with how, you know, the history and the financials
separate from your personal finances to perhaps, you know, take
on a loan, uh, as, as nonprofit property.
S7 (26:02):
It's brand new. It's brand new. We just within the
last six months, put it put the property into the nonprofit.
It's the only asset.
S1 (26:14):
Okay. Got it. Uh, yeah. So that's going to make
it a little more challenging, uh, in that the reverse
mortgage is really not going to be an option because
the reverse mortgage can only be used. And I realize
you mentioned you have to wait until 62, but you're
basically there. But it can only be used for your
primary residence. And even if you purchased it and made
(26:34):
it a part of the same parcel, and so you
essentially join your expanded the property, um, you know, large
parcels are allowed in a reverse mortgage, but only part
of that land could be counted toward the loan value.
And that may be okay. You may still be able
to to, you know, make something out of that. But, um,
you know, they would basically say anything that's beyond what's
(26:59):
typical or marketable as a part of the the main residence, um,
would not be able to add value to the reverse mortgage,
so they would kind of limit it just to the
area surrounding your primary residence, and it has to be
a home that you live in. It can't be an
investment property or anything like that. You know, typically what
(27:20):
you would want to do is keep everything separate, because
that's going to ensure that, you know, you don't get
into a position. Uh, you know, where you're putting your
own personal finances and a home in jeopardy if something
were to happen, you know, meaning you no longer have
the ability, uh, to fund it to, to continue to
(27:41):
service the debt. It preserves clean lines so your personal
residence stays separate. The non-profit activities stay separate. The liability
stays separate. If you were ever sued for something, let's
just hope and pray that doesn't happen. But things like
that do happen, especially with people living on the property.
And so there's some legal protections by you keeping everything
(28:04):
separate and then financing that separate, you know, with the
nonprofit property standing alone, you're probably going to have to
almost certainly have to guarantee it personally, but it still
could be held in the name of the nonprofit. You
would need to talk to an attorney about it, and
you would need to have, you know, find a lender
(28:25):
who would be willing, you know, to take this on. Uh,
I mean, there are lenders who specialize in loans to
ministries and non-profits. They generally require 2 to 3 years
of financial history and want stable revenue and a, you know,
a board clearly in place and a budget and a
track record. So that would be mainly a future option.
You could look for a private donor loan, uh, you know,
(28:47):
somebody who would do more of an impact loan or
a missional loan, maybe even at low or no interest
or even forgivable because they buy into the vision of
what you're trying to do. You could raise donations to
purchase the property, uh, because, you know, obviously, even just
with this seller, people are, you know, hearing your vision
for what you're trying to do. And it's something that's
(29:08):
captivating them. And, you know, maybe we start praying that
God really brings those people as you start telling the
story that would be willing to to do that. Uh,
you know what's more common in this situation, although there's
some risk here, is that you buy it personally and
you know you would, because the lender won't loan a
brand new nonprofit any money. There's no revenue, no balance sheet. Um,
(29:29):
you know, you could take on a traditional mortgage for
this property almost as an investment property. Um, and, you know,
then you would just have to have the ability to
qualify for it and then need to make sure that
you're not putting yourself in financial jeopardy, uh, in terms
of getting overextended. If it takes longer for this to
get up and running. Does all that make sense, though?
S7 (29:52):
Yeah, it it does. So would it benefit us to
put the house back that we're in now, back into
our personal name and leave the property in the nonprofit
and then be able to have access to that reverse
mortgage opportunity.
S1 (30:10):
Uh. It could. I mean, I think you just need
to understand what you're doing there, though. You're taking a loan.
That's the home that's free and clear, and, you know,
you're beginning to borrow against it and deplete that equity.
You know, at the end of the day, money is
a tool. And if God's called you to do this,
I'm not in any way going to stand in the
way of it. I love your vision, but I just
(30:31):
want to make sure you've thought through it, perhaps with
some wise counsel, maybe a certified Kingdom advisor, or with
your board to make sure that what you're doing is
God honoring and following his call in your life, but
not putting you in financial jeopardy, if that makes sense.
So stay on the line. Let's talk a bit more, Karen.
We'll be right back on Faith and Finance Live. Hey,
(30:57):
thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live
I'm Rob West. You know, we talked to Karen a
bit more off the air. And you just talked about,
you know, this vision that God has placed on her heart.
As a leader of a nonprofit myself, I know money
follows vision and money follows activities that are clearly on
the heart of God. And and that's, uh, you know,
the vision she has for, uh, helping those in a
(31:20):
desperate situation, uh, with this property and with these homes
that would be constructed, I think is something that for
for people that have capacity and a desire to give,
it's just a matter of telling that story and and
lead with prayer. And and ultimately, God owns the cattle
on a thousand hills. And if he wants it funded,
he'll find a way to fund it. But I would
(31:41):
just say before, and this is what Karen and I
talked about before, you know, you go on and take
your home and mortgage it and put a reverse mortgage
on your residence to fund this. I would, you know,
not prevent God from and obviously, God can do whatever
he wants. We're not going to prevent him from doing anything.
But I just wouldn't miss the opportunity for God to
put a burden on somebody's heart as she gets out
(32:04):
there and starts meeting with people and just saying, can
I put a vision in front of you just to
ask you to pray about whether it's something like you'd
like to be involved in and just see what God does?
It's amazing the amount of money that's out there, the
amount of people looking for ministries to invest in, especially
where they're right down the street, impacting their community, especially
when there's leaders that are personally known to them and trusted. Uh,
(32:27):
don't miss that opportunity for God to move in some
people's lives and allow them to get the blessing of
being involved in what he's going to do in the
days ahead. I hope that's an encouragement to somebody out
there listening today. All right, let's get back to the phones. Minnesota. Christine.
Go ahead.
S8 (32:44):
Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it.
S1 (32:49):
Thank you. You're welcome.
S8 (32:52):
Um, I am a newly widowed. My husband died in February,
and I have the. I know, me too. Thank you. Um,
our home is for sale, and I'm living at the cabin. Um. Uh,
I know that the the home is for sale for
(33:15):
a large amount. I know that I will have some
money to to, um. Be wise with when it sells.
And I'm looking for wisdom and guidance. I, um, have
two children that are married, eight adult grandchildren, and, uh,
(33:42):
three of them are married. Um, four little great grandchildren.
And two of the grandchildren are, uh, in business for themselves.
They're not way deep in business, but I would like
to use the money in many ways. Um, I'm debt free,
(34:05):
which is, um, a rich blessing. God has been really
good to my husband and I and to our family. And, um,
so I and we ha. I have an accountant that
we've had for quite a while. Um, he doesn't necessarily
(34:27):
give investment advice. I've talked with bankers that we've worked with, and, um,
I feel like we've been getting good advice, but this
is a little more money than I have got in
the bank right now. So, um, what would you do?
S1 (34:51):
Yeah, that's really helpful. Christine. Well, I'm so sorry to
hear about your husband's passing. And, um, you know, I
appreciate you just honoring the Lord and calling out his
faithfulness to you and your husband over the years, and
to your family. And and what a privilege to continue
to steward what he's entrusted to you in this next season,
and develop a vision for what God has for you
(35:12):
in the future. That certainly includes the resources that he
has provided and is continuing to provide. Um, I'd love
to just kind of run through, if you don't mind, quickly,
kind of where you're at financially and and talk about
kind of where this, the proceeds of this sale might
fit into that. And so what do you do? You
have some liquid savings right now.
S8 (35:35):
Yes. I, um, I have a CD, a fairly large CD,
over 100,000, um, coming due, um, at the end of December. Um,
and then I have another smaller CD that will be
(35:55):
due mid January, I believe. And it's 30,000, I believe. And, um.
And that will get me through I. Our home is.
S1 (36:09):
Let me let me stay on the savings for a second.
Do you have any liquid savings right now that's not
tied up in the CD?
S8 (36:15):
Yes. Um, I have about 11,000.
S1 (36:19):
Okay, great. And then what are your income sources?
S8 (36:23):
My social security.
S1 (36:24):
Okay. And is that enough for you to live on?
And do you have anything left over at the end
of the month?
S8 (36:30):
Um. It's close. Um, I have about. It's a little
more than 1900, and I try to just be careful. I, um, yeah, I,
I don't I'm not. I don't have, um, expenses other
than everyday expenses.
S1 (36:51):
Got it. Yep. And is this the the survivor's benefit?
The 1900?
S8 (36:55):
Hundred. Yes.
S1 (36:56):
Okay. Yes. Correct. And you said you're debt free, and
that's great. Now you're selling a home. What are you
going to receive in the proceeds of that sale?
S8 (37:05):
Well, it's for sale. 1,075,000.
S1 (37:09):
Okay. And do you. And you don't owe anything on it?
S8 (37:13):
No.
S1 (37:14):
Okay. And where are you headed after you sell it?
S8 (37:18):
I'm living at our cabin, which is, uh, paid for to, um.
And it's it's where I'm planning to live. It's close
to our daughter and her five children and a granddaughter
and her little family.
S1 (37:36):
So I love that. That's great. And so you're going
to have roughly $1 million that you could invest on
a conservative basis, whether that's in a CD or CDs or,
you know, government treasuries or money market or, you know,
a very conservative stock and bond portfolio if you wanted to,
but it sounds like based on your modest living, you've
(37:57):
got more than you're going to need. And so are
you wanting just to try to to safely generate some
income on this? Is that your primary objective? Would you
like to start giving some of it away either to
to ministry or charity or or to the kids? What
is your hope and plan with this million dollars at
this point?
S8 (38:17):
Well, all of the above I would like to give
to to the ministry, to a couple of ministries and um,
to our kids who have been a big help. Yeah.
And then I would like to have a little more income.
S1 (38:36):
Yeah, great. Well, the good news is you should be
absolutely able to do that. I mean, let's say and
I'm not trying to put a number here, but let's
say after expenses, you cleared $1 million and let's say you,
you had, you know, 100,000 worth that you wanted to
start giving away. Remember, you can give away 18,000 a
year per person to as many individuals as you want.
You don't even have to tell the IRS about it.
(38:57):
If you get above that, you still don't pay any tax.
You just have to let them know. Um, but you
could start giving away a little bit of that to
your heirs. You could even do some some charitable giving.
And let's say you ended up with 900,000. I mean,
you could easily pull 4% a year, and you should
be able to maintain the 900,000 for the rest of
your life and still pull 4% a year. That would
(39:20):
be another 3000 a month. And it doesn't sound like
you'd need that much. Um, and so that would potentially
allow you to do even more giving, you know, beyond 100,000. But, um,
you know, I think your next step is, is probably
to connect with a, a certified Kingdom advisor there in Minnesota,
somebody who is an advisor who can help you think
through these issues, help you discover even some of your
(39:42):
passions around the giving that you'd like to do, and
develop a vision for that, both to to ministries as
well as, um, you know, to your, your kids and
develop a plan for that. Also help you make sure
your estate plan is up to date. If any documents
need to be revisited after your husband's passing, that that
could be done. Um, I think that really is the
(40:04):
place to go from here and, you know, to find
a certified Kingdom advisor there in Minnesota, I'd head to
find a com that's find a com, you could do
a zip code search and maybe interview 2 or 3
in the area, find the one that's the best fit.
But the good news is it sounds like you're in
great shape. God has provided for you. Uh, and now
(40:27):
we just need a plan to go alongside the passions
and desires that he's given you. And I'm confident you're
going to be a wonderful steward of these resources. I'd
also like to send you a copy of, uh, issue
three of our magazine. Faithful steward. There's a wonderful. It's
actually a beautiful article written by Valerie Neff Hogan. Her
(40:50):
mom and Valerie started a ministry called Widow Connection for widows.
In this situation, she's an attorney, but she's also been
involved with the National Christian Foundation. But she wrote an
article in there called Financial Next Steps after losing a spouse.
And it walks you through your ten first, your first
ten steps. And then it also helps you determine which
(41:13):
one of the steps is to put a personal board
of directors in place. And and she defines what that is.
And she even tells you how to determine who those
people should be or who you know how to select them.
But I think this article will be a wonderful encouragement
to you. And so I'm going to have my team
send it to you. But how does all that sound, Christine?
S8 (41:33):
I'd love it. Thank you.
S1 (41:35):
Okay.
S8 (41:35):
Thank you. You're welcome.
S1 (41:36):
So I think you're on the right track. Be encouraged.
God has provided. He's there and is going to walk
with you. I'm confident. He has a wonderful plan and
purpose for this next season of your life. Um, and
I'm going to send you this article, so. Or this magazine.
So you stay on the line and then to find
an advisor in your area, just go to find a com.
(41:57):
Thanks for your call today Peter. Let's see if we
can get you scheduled to be first up tomorrow. I
apologize we didn't get to you folks here at the
end of the year. Let me challenge you, encourage you,
ask you if you would come alongside us here at
Faith Fi and the Faith and Finance Live radio program
and support our work. We're headed toward year end, which
is a really important time for every ministry you know
(42:17):
and love. On our way to 175,000, our year end goal,
there's a little more than 90,000 in the door so far.
So we still have a ways to go, but you
can help us get there. And good news every gift
doubled between now and the end of the year. And
with every gift, we'll send you my new devotional, Our
Ultimate Treasure. Go to faith. Give Josh Taylor to hear
(42:38):
an Omar serving us today. Faith and Finance Live is
a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith fi. We'll see
you tomorrow.
Are you living at your best or just barely getting by?
Maybe burnout isn't a badge of honor, but a warning
light from God. Hi, I'm Rob West. When life feels
out of balance, it's often a sign we're pushing past
the limits. God's designed for our good. Today, Kari Neuhoff
joins us to share how we can find biblical rest
(00:28):
and live with renewed purpose by managing our time and
energy God's way. And then it's on to your calls
at 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. This is
faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well,
it's a joy to welcome Kari Neuhoff to the program.
(00:50):
He's best selling author, speaker, leadership expert, and founding pastor
of Connexus Church in Ontario, Canada. Kari, I've been looking
forward to this. Thanks for being here.
S2 (01:00):
I've been looking forward to it too. Thank you so
much for having me.
S1 (01:03):
Gary, we're going to unpack your book today at your
best How to get time, energy and priorities working in
your favor. And I know it struck a chord with
so many readers. Certainly I'm among that group. Let's back up.
Why did you write this? Why the topic of burnout?
S3 (01:20):
Well, I wrote it because I burned out. So about
a decade.
S2 (01:24):
Into my leadership, almost 20 years ago now, I was
on top of the world in many respects fast growing church,
new people every weekend, double digit growth. And, uh, I
remember being invited to speak at a conference in Atlanta.
Biggest audience to date at that time, 2500 leaders from
around the world. And I thought, does it get any
(01:45):
better than this? And then, uh, I flew home, my
wife and kids were with me. And when we landed
in Toronto, my, you know, home city, it's like I
fell off a cliff. I just had worked so hard
for so long. Um, you know, I probably met all
the symptoms for clinical depression, and I'm not a depressed person, but, like,
(02:05):
lost my motivation, lost my passion. And what happened was,
you know, like so many leaders, success is intoxicating. We
were growing at, I think, 30% a year, year after
year after year. And my terrible math equation was more
people equals more hours. You know, if you get a promotion,
what is it, Rob? Some more hours, right? That's right. So, um,
(02:26):
and I didn't declare a finish line, so my body did,
and it kind of went on strike. And that lasted
about 4 or 5 months. Darkest period in my life. Um,
and as I was slowly finding health again, I can't
live this way. I got to figure out a new
normal because normal got me burned out. And so that
has spawned the last two decades of not only figuring
(02:50):
it out personally, but probably, you know, 7 or 8
years into recovery, I started sharing some of the principles
and I'm like, oh, wait a minute, I'm not alone
on this. This is like so many people's stories. And
what I found is my recovery didn't just work for me.
It started to help other people too. Mhm.
S1 (03:08):
Uh, let's sit in that for a second. Did it
catch you by surprise or did you see it coming
in any way?
S2 (03:14):
No, no, actually I wrote a book before your best called.
Didn't see it coming. No I didn't see it coming
I wasn't I had lots of people saw it coming.
Now here's the irony, right? I had people probably for
2 or 3 years prior to me burning out, tapping
me on the shoulder, going, hey, if you're not careful,
you're going to be burnt out. And you know what?
I thought because I was in my 30s, I was like,
(03:35):
you know, that's for weaklings. Yeah, weak people burn out.
I don't burn out. I'm stronger than that. The rules
don't apply to me. And you know what they did?
They did apply to me. And it honestly was one
of the biggest shocks in my life. It's like, what
do you mean? I'm out of gas? What do you mean?
I don't want to get out of bed in the morning.
What do you mean? I'm this dark and this depressed
(03:58):
and this, like, limping, barely moving on. It just. It
just shocked me. And even looking back on it, I'm like, yeah,
that was totally out of the blue. So were the
signs there? Absolutely. Who is blind to them? Me.
S1 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah. And that's normally the case. You talk about
burnout as the gap between what we're capable of and
what we're carrying. Unpack that for us for a second.
S2 (04:22):
Yeah. So, you know, the thing is, you know, we're
growing fast enough. And I mean, you know, in Canada,
a large church is very large churches, a thousand people.
And we were starting to crest that level. And I thought,
it can't get any more complicated than that. And when
I burned out, you know, I just thought, I can't
handle any more people. I can't handle any more responsibility.
(04:45):
I can't handle any of that. Well, fast forward two decades.
Guess what? I'm carrying a crazy amount. More Like, millions
of people have access to my podcast and my resources.
S1 (04:56):
Yes.
S2 (04:57):
And I have days off and I go to bed
and get eight and a half, nine hours sleep. So,
you know, burnout, if you're operating at that capacity, you
get hurt. But there's a lot more if you rethink
your rhythm.
S1 (05:10):
Mm. That is so good. Well, we're going to continue
to unpack this after the break. What does it look
like to go from burnout to biblical rest? Carey Nieuwhof. Pastor,
speaker and best selling author here today. Much more to come.
Just around the corner. Stay with us. Do you find
(05:34):
yourself at the end of your rope? Perhaps burnout is
a part of this season you're in right now, and
you're looking for a way out the path to biblical rest.
That's what we're talking about today with Kari Neuhoff. Kari
is a pastor, speaker, best selling author of the book
at your best. How to get time, energy, and priorities
working in your favor. Carry. Before the break. You described
(05:58):
this dark place you were at as you were at
seemingly the top of your game. Everything was working and
your church and and your speaking and writing. And all
of a sudden you found yourself in your own burnout.
And it was a journey that you walked with the
Lord and your family through. And you're, of course, now
on the other side of it. And I'm so delighted
(06:18):
because I'm confident there are so many in our listening
audience today who are in some version of that season
right now. One of the key ideas you talk about
is managing energy rather than time. Talk about that for
a second.
S2 (06:32):
You know the thing I started to rethink, uh, time
management because the problem was I was pretty good at
time management when I burned out. Like I was getting
better at it every year. And what I realized is
you're managing a fixed asset. Like you get 24 hours
in a day, no matter who you are, right? If
you became president of the United States, guess what you get.
Not a single minute more a day. If you get
(06:55):
promoted to CEO, guess what? You get not a single
minute more a day. And so I kind of realized that.
But then I also started studying energy. And a lot's
been done over the last 15 years on studying human energy.
But I realized not all 24 hours are created equal
like they're equal in time. But like I'm a morning person.
So 8 a.m. feels very different to me than 8 p.m.
(07:17):
some nights at 8 p.m.. You know, I'm just like,
all right, that's it. I want to go to bed. Right. So.
But 8 a.m., uh, I'm a writer. I'm working on
a new book right now, and, you know, the ideas flow. I'm. I'm,
you know, doing great. So maybe your your listeners can
relate because they're morning people or they're night owls or,
you know, they peak midday. A lot of people according
(07:37):
to the research, peak midday. But the bottom line is
I wanted to call my last book at your best.
I wanted to call it the three hour work day,
but it's already gone that that concept, but the idea
is like, on a really good day. I had a
writing sabbatical last week before, you know, we were going
to air with this. I, you know, wrote eight hours
a day, but there were only 3 or 4 really
(07:58):
good hours in that. And then the rest was kind
of review. And your brain cells. You know, it's like
your phone, you start at 100% or 80%, and then
you just wind down. And by 4:00 in the afternoon
there's 3%. So I call those peak energy zones your
your hours, your green zone because you're firing on all cylinders.
The opposite is your red zone. And so for me
(08:18):
that's 4 to 6 in the afternoon where, you know,
my battery's down to 3%. I need a double espresso
or a nap. One of the two or a run
or something to keep me going. Most people can relate
to that. So the key is, and this is what
made the biggest difference in the productivity we talked about
before the break is, um, when I work in my
(08:39):
green zone, I do my most important work, which for
me is writing, yes, new content as an author and
a speaker. If I do that my green zone, I
get exponential returns. If I wait and just fill it
up with breakfast meetings and this and that and the
other thing and, you know, trips to the drive through
for coffee. Um, and I try to do my most
(09:00):
important work in the afternoon or evening. Gong show. Gong show.
So what I encourage leaders to do is do what
you're best at when you're at your best. That's it.
When are you at your best? Take your most important
work for CEOs. It could be strategy. It could be key.
One on one meetings. Do it when you're at your
best because you know if you've got that part of
your to do list done, guess what? You can go home, man.
(09:22):
Like if I get if I get 3000 good words
written by 10 a.m., I don't care what the day brings,
I'm fine. When I was a pastor, if I had
my sermon done by Tuesday at noon and the rest
of the week doesn't really matter if I'm still struggling
for an idea. Friday at 5:00, guess who pays the price? Me?
My family, my wife. I'm miserable. The sermon isn't as good.
(09:44):
So you got to do what you're best at when
you're at your best.
S1 (09:47):
That is so good. And it's such a key idea,
not only in life, but in leadership, to your point.
So carry with those things that you're not best at.
What are some practical ideas on how you then transfer
those to others? What does that look like?
S4 (10:03):
Delegate delegate. Delegate.
S2 (10:05):
I'm working on a new piece, top ten books I've
read this year. I'm just literally putting the book titles in.
Someone else can fill in all the links, all the details, etc.
you just gotta delegate. You got to learn. Also to
say no. I think about it in terms of categorical
decision making. I did it again this morning. It was
a travel day yesterday, so I'm catching up on email.
(10:27):
There's a guy who wants to give me, you know,
pretty valuable free software in exchange for a 45 minute
zoom call. I'm like, you know what? I'm just going
to have to say, no, I'm sorry, I'm in monk
mode right now. I gotta I gotta write this book.
And that's really hard. Every single time I shut the
door and say no. But for too many years, particularly
in my 30s when my kids were young, you know,
(10:48):
when I said yes and I shouldn't have said yes,
guess who paid the price for that? My family. Because
saying yes to this guy that was a B or
C priority meant I said no to my kids on
a Saturday. It's like, oh, I don't want to live
that way anymore. And you know, so I think of
it as categorical decision making. I don't do breakfast meetings anymore. Why?
Because it competes with my green zone. It's just like, okay,
(11:11):
you know, the one hour meeting took three hours. By
the time you drove to the restaurant, got back, stopped
for coffee, chatted with people in the office. So it's
it's been a complete rewiring. Now you can make exceptions.
One of my very best friends texted me, hey, I'm
in Nashville. You want to get together for breakfast on Friday?
I can have breakfast with him, you know, but I'm
just not going to do it three days a week. Uh,
(11:33):
you know, all month long. Because then my most productive
time goes up in flames. Mhm.
S1 (11:39):
You know, I love that. after concluding his creation masterpiece,
God rested from his work. And you know, when we
indwell creation and that design, we work in God's way,
but we also rest in God's way. And you say
rest isn't a reward for finishing our work. It's a
part of how God designed us to work. So how
does that play out day to day for you?
S2 (12:01):
Well, you know, we think of rest, I think, as rehab.
It's like, ah, I worked so hard. I'm so tired,
I gotta rest. But yeah, it's talking to Rob Pelinka,
who's a general manager of the LA Lakers. And we
were talking about managing LeBron James. And listen, I know
less about sports than all of your listeners. Okay. So, uh,
but I know who LeBron James is. Sure. And he
(12:22):
says LeBron as he's gotten older pays so much attention. Prehab. Right.
So it's not just what am I doing after the
game recover? What am I doing before the game to
get ready? And that looks like 12 hours worth of
sleep and this diet and this exercise regime, etc.. So
you can look at Sabbath as rehab, or you can
look at it as prehab as well. And the other
(12:43):
thing that's interesting, because you referenced the biblical, uh, reference
to Sabbath, is that God delighted in his creation. He
looked back, he created something amazing, and he enjoyed it,
which is like really cool, right?
S1 (12:58):
Yeah, you're exactly right. Well, and we've only unfortunately got
about a minute left. But these limits are not only
a part of God's rhythm, but they're a blessing to us.
They're not obstacles. And this can actually relate to money
as well. So let's finish today with how this can
transform our approach to both time and money.
S2 (13:16):
Yeah. Margin on your calendar is a gift, right? If
you've got a free Saturday and it just says family
time on it, it's like, awesome, okay, you've said no
to everything else so you can say yes to your family.
The same goes with money. And I learned that lesson
over time. That margin is a gift financially. You know,
if your air conditioning goes or your furnace goes, You
(13:37):
have the money sitting in the bank. What a gift.
So I think the way you manage your time, the
way you manage even your health, and you steward that,
and also the way you manage your money. Really important.
S1 (13:46):
Yeah. Boy, this has been a gift today to us. Kari.
I so appreciate your time. Thanks for being with us.
We're going to have you back real soon.
S2 (13:53):
Okay, I'd love to.
S1 (13:54):
That's Kari Neuhoff, pastor, speaker and best selling author. You
can pick up this book wherever you buy your books.
It's called At Your Best. Also, check out the Kari
Neuhoff Leadership podcast. He'll be at Redeeming Money, our conference
for advisors in February. Tell your advisor to go to
redeeming Money.com. All right. Your calls are next. The number
800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. We'll be right back.
S5 (14:32):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:57):
Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live,
I'm Rob West. Looking forward to taking your calls and
questions today. The number to get in on the conversation
800 525 7000. Again that number is 800 525 7000.
You know, as we look at the counsel of Scripture,
we realize there is a lot in God's Word related
to money and money management. Why is that? Is it
(15:20):
that God wants something from us? No, I think it's
that God wants something for us. I think he recognizes,
and we certainly see this throughout Scripture, that if something
is going to compete with our hearts for first position,
it's most often going to be money and the things
that money can buy. Remember the parable of the sower?
What was it that choked out the word from bearing
a 3000 6000 fold return? Well, it was the deceitfulness
(15:43):
of riches and the desires for other things. Creator. Well,
that's not the way God designed it. And we take
our sights off the eternal and put them on the temporal. Well,
we want to reset that here on this program each day.
Help you think in light of a biblical worldview. Look
at the resources God has entrusted to you through the
lens of Scripture, and then address those very practical decisions
(16:07):
you're making in your financial life, using biblical principles to
make and guide us through the decision making process. So, uh,
give us a call when you have further questions today.
That number to get in on the conversation is 800
525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. We're going to dive in.
(16:28):
Let's begin in Florida today Tim. Go right ahead.
S6 (16:32):
Good afternoon. Thanks for your time. Uh, we're wondering where
to set some money aside for my 18 year old nephew. Uh, unfortunately,
his parents haven't done too much to set him up
for success. His mother never re-enrolled him in high school
two years ago after a move. And we're concerned that
(16:52):
the money we set aside for him could be wasted.
Or his mother manipulate the money away from him to contrast. Uh,
he has an eight year old little sister where we
want to put the money in a 529 where we
feel it's insulated against misuse since we can remain the
account holders for owners.
S1 (17:14):
Yeah, yeah. So you obviously want to keep this in
a restricted account where it can only be used for
his purpose and specifically related to college. That's where the
529 comes in. Just because it can only be used
for qualified educational expenses, and there's a beneficiary attached to it.
Kind of the the similar type of account but unrelated
(17:37):
to college would be what's called either a ugma or
a utma account. It's essentially a custodial account, either under
the Uniform Gifts to Minors Act or the Uniform Transfers
to Minors Act. But the idea is that it's an
account you control until the minor reaches his or her
state's age of majority, typically 18, but not always. And
(18:01):
then that gives them the flexibility to use that money
in any way they want. Now, if he would potentially
qualify for need based financial aid, that could work against him,
because in terms of the expected family contribution, that number
that determines need based age eligibility, an asset that's his
(18:21):
which a custodial account would be, is counted against him
at a much higher percentage than an asset owned by
somebody else, including the parents. So that would be the
only downside. But that account structure would, I think, apart from,
let's say, a trust which would be more expensive and
onerous to set up would be the kind of thing
that you're looking for that would ensure that the money
(18:43):
can only be used for his benefit, you know, prior
to the age of majority, and would become his asset
exclusively at the age of majority. Does that make sense?
S6 (18:54):
Yeah, except he's already 18.
S1 (18:58):
Okay. All right. So are you looking to gift some
money to him, or are you looking to put some
money aside and you're wanting him to receive it at
some point in the future when he's older?
S6 (19:09):
I think we'd like to gift it to him and
give it, given the opportunity to learn about money, use
and investing. But we just have this concern that his
mother will somehow get her hands on it and waste it.
S1 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah. Got it. Well, uh, I mean, I think
you could work with him, and, you know, he would
be able to open an account in his name. Uh, only, uh,
and then that money could then be invested. I mean,
she would not with him being, uh, over 18, 18
or older, she would not have the ability to withdraw
it if it was given to him directly, which you
(19:48):
can gift, you know, up to $18,000 per year to
as many individuals as you want. And for married couples,
you can do that twice. Each of you could gift
him $18,000 a year. So he had the ability to
gift him up to $36,000 without even letting the IRS
know you're doing it. If you went above that, it
still wouldn't be taxable. You'd just have to file a
(20:09):
gift tax form and let them know you're doing it,
because it would chip away at your lifetime gift exclusion,
which currently sits at above $13 million. So you'd have
to give a lot of money away to ever have
any tax implications, but that would allow you to gift
it directly to him. Now it's his money goes right
into his, you know, let's say checking account or right
into his brokerage account that he sets up in his
(20:32):
name only, which you could help him do, and his
mom would have no legal access to it at that point.
She couldn't make withdrawals or anything else.
S6 (20:41):
Okay. So it'd really just have to rely upon the
our direct relationship with him and talking about it with him.
And then it's really his. I mean, it's his money
at that point. And what he does with it is
up to him.
S1 (20:54):
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. If he turned around and gave gave
some of it to mom, that would be his prerogative.
But I think the idea would be you'd sit down,
you know, ahead of time and say, listen, I want
to bless you with a gift. Here's my desire. You know,
I want to help you get set up for the future.
I'm going to make a recommendation on what you do
with it. But ultimately, I'm trusting you, as now a
young adult, to take this and use it wisely. And
(21:16):
then I think you need to lay out based on
the time horizon, how you would advise him handling it.
So if he doesn't have an emergency fund or he
has high interest debt, I'd probably use it there first
in either a high yield savings or paying the debt directly.
If it's money you're wanting him to set aside for
the long term and invest, I would want to have
at least a five year time horizon on it. And
(21:38):
then you could use a robo advisor like Schwab Intelligent Portfolios.
But if it's money he's going to need in the
next five years, I'd keep it pretty liquid and pretty safe.
But I think that's the way to go. Hang on
the line, Tim. I want to send you a book
to pass along to him. We'll be right back. So
(22:00):
thankful to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live here on Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. We're
taking your calls and questions and good news. We've got
some lines open for you. That number to call 800
525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. You can call right now.
Let's go to Georgia. Karen. Go ahead.
S7 (22:20):
Hi, Rob. Thanks for taking my call and for your ministry. Um,
a couple of items for About Me. I have a
my husband and I have a house, a small house,
about 1000 square foot house on 18 acres of land.
We bought it from a gentleman who also has a
house on the property with 17 more acres of land.
(22:40):
So all together he had two houses and, um, 35
acres of land and sold us half of it. Um,
it is mortgage free. We bought it about four and
a half years ago. No mortgage on it. So 100% equity. Um,
I'll be 62 years old next year. So not drawing
Social Security yet? I do have a place where I
(23:02):
go to serve. I don't use the word work. This
is where I serve. And I make about $4,400 a month.
We're living pretty comfortably. My husband's an independent electrician and
just kind of does side jobs, so nothing, um, taxable.
My question is, is we have a non-profit prophet, where
God put on our hearts several hearts several years ago
(23:24):
to build a community or a safe haven shelter for
domestic violence survivors. We don't. We have nothing established yet.
All we have is the one little house. So we
always thought we would build a bigger house, make the
smaller house like a common area, washer and dryer and
kitchen kind of thing. And four days ago, we found
(23:48):
out that the owner of the other part of the
property has moved out of his house and he's selling it.
So we thought, huh, let's go see if we can
buy some of that land where we can build this
safe haven. Um, now he had we have found out
that through the real estate agent, we went and looked
last night at it. The real estate agent has told
us what the list price is, and has said that
(24:11):
the owner has agreed to knock 20% off of the
list price and sell it to us, because he knows
what our heart is and he knows what our mission is.
It's an incredible opportunity. A 35, $320,000 house and property. Um,
it would it would open up so much opportunity for us.
(24:31):
My question is, Rob, is, um, we don't have a
whole lot of savings, but we don't have a whole
lot of debt. Uh, we've got a credit card we're
getting ready to pay off, and we have another one
that we use monthly and pay off monthly. We don't
like paying interest. So the question is, and I know
reverse mortgage is not until I turn 62 I wouldn't
(24:53):
qualify for that. But I'm there next month. Um, so
reverse mortgage and rent out. We could possibly rent out
the smaller house for some additional revenue, or sell the
property and have that liquid assets or finance it. We
really don't know what the wisest choice is, but we
(25:14):
just want to do, Um, were we like God has
led us to do all these years?
S1 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah. Wow, I love it. I love your vision
for this and how amazing. It certainly seems like God's
involvement in this. Just the fact that you could get
this at a 20% discount for the ministry purposes. In fact, uh,
be great if he donated, you know, maybe a portion
of it to the ministry or something like that. But, uh,
at any rate, I realize you've got to have to
(25:43):
finance it to, to pick it up. What is the
status of the nonprofit currently, just in terms of its
ability with how, you know, the history and the financials
separate from your personal finances to perhaps, you know, take
on a loan, uh, as, as nonprofit property.
S7 (26:02):
It's brand new. It's brand new. We just within the
last six months, put it put the property into the nonprofit.
It's the only asset.
S1 (26:14):
Okay. Got it. Uh, yeah. So that's going to make
it a little more challenging, uh, in that the reverse
mortgage is really not going to be an option because
the reverse mortgage can only be used. And I realize
you mentioned you have to wait until 62, but you're
basically there. But it can only be used for your
primary residence. And even if you purchased it and made
(26:34):
it a part of the same parcel, and so you
essentially join your expanded the property, um, you know, large
parcels are allowed in a reverse mortgage, but only part
of that land could be counted toward the loan value.
And that may be okay. You may still be able
to to, you know, make something out of that. But, um,
you know, they would basically say anything that's beyond what's
(26:59):
typical or marketable as a part of the the main residence, um,
would not be able to add value to the reverse mortgage,
so they would kind of limit it just to the
area surrounding your primary residence, and it has to be
a home that you live in. It can't be an
investment property or anything like that. You know, typically what
(27:20):
you would want to do is keep everything separate, because
that's going to ensure that, you know, you don't get
into a position. Uh, you know, where you're putting your
own personal finances and a home in jeopardy if something
were to happen, you know, meaning you no longer have
the ability, uh, to fund it to, to continue to
(27:41):
service the debt. It preserves clean lines so your personal
residence stays separate. The non-profit activities stay separate. The liability
stays separate. If you were ever sued for something, let's
just hope and pray that doesn't happen. But things like
that do happen, especially with people living on the property.
And so there's some legal protections by you keeping everything
(28:04):
separate and then financing that separate, you know, with the
nonprofit property standing alone, you're probably going to have to
almost certainly have to guarantee it personally, but it still
could be held in the name of the nonprofit. You
would need to talk to an attorney about it, and
you would need to have, you know, find a lender
(28:25):
who would be willing, you know, to take this on. Uh,
I mean, there are lenders who specialize in loans to
ministries and non-profits. They generally require 2 to 3 years
of financial history and want stable revenue and a, you know,
a board clearly in place and a budget and a
track record. So that would be mainly a future option.
You could look for a private donor loan, uh, you know,
(28:47):
somebody who would do more of an impact loan or
a missional loan, maybe even at low or no interest
or even forgivable because they buy into the vision of
what you're trying to do. You could raise donations to
purchase the property, uh, because, you know, obviously, even just
with this seller, people are, you know, hearing your vision
for what you're trying to do. And it's something that's
(29:08):
captivating them. And, you know, maybe we start praying that
God really brings those people as you start telling the
story that would be willing to to do that. Uh,
you know what's more common in this situation, although there's
some risk here, is that you buy it personally and
you know you would, because the lender won't loan a
brand new nonprofit any money. There's no revenue, no balance sheet. Um,
(29:29):
you know, you could take on a traditional mortgage for
this property almost as an investment property. Um, and, you know,
then you would just have to have the ability to
qualify for it and then need to make sure that
you're not putting yourself in financial jeopardy, uh, in terms
of getting overextended. If it takes longer for this to
get up and running. Does all that make sense, though?
S7 (29:52):
Yeah, it it does. So would it benefit us to
put the house back that we're in now, back into
our personal name and leave the property in the nonprofit
and then be able to have access to that reverse
mortgage opportunity.
S1 (30:10):
Uh. It could. I mean, I think you just need
to understand what you're doing there, though. You're taking a loan.
That's the home that's free and clear, and, you know,
you're beginning to borrow against it and deplete that equity.
You know, at the end of the day, money is
a tool. And if God's called you to do this,
I'm not in any way going to stand in the
way of it. I love your vision, but I just
(30:31):
want to make sure you've thought through it, perhaps with
some wise counsel, maybe a certified Kingdom advisor, or with
your board to make sure that what you're doing is
God honoring and following his call in your life, but
not putting you in financial jeopardy, if that makes sense.
So stay on the line. Let's talk a bit more, Karen.
We'll be right back on Faith and Finance Live. Hey,
(30:57):
thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live
I'm Rob West. You know, we talked to Karen a
bit more off the air. And you just talked about,
you know, this vision that God has placed on her heart.
As a leader of a nonprofit myself, I know money
follows vision and money follows activities that are clearly on
the heart of God. And and that's, uh, you know,
the vision she has for, uh, helping those in a
(31:20):
desperate situation, uh, with this property and with these homes
that would be constructed, I think is something that for
for people that have capacity and a desire to give,
it's just a matter of telling that story and and
lead with prayer. And and ultimately, God owns the cattle
on a thousand hills. And if he wants it funded,
he'll find a way to fund it. But I would
(31:41):
just say before, and this is what Karen and I
talked about before, you know, you go on and take
your home and mortgage it and put a reverse mortgage
on your residence to fund this. I would, you know,
not prevent God from and obviously, God can do whatever
he wants. We're not going to prevent him from doing anything.
But I just wouldn't miss the opportunity for God to
put a burden on somebody's heart as she gets out
(32:04):
there and starts meeting with people and just saying, can
I put a vision in front of you just to
ask you to pray about whether it's something like you'd
like to be involved in and just see what God does?
It's amazing the amount of money that's out there, the
amount of people looking for ministries to invest in, especially
where they're right down the street, impacting their community, especially
when there's leaders that are personally known to them and trusted. Uh,
(32:27):
don't miss that opportunity for God to move in some
people's lives and allow them to get the blessing of
being involved in what he's going to do in the
days ahead. I hope that's an encouragement to somebody out
there listening today. All right, let's get back to the phones. Minnesota. Christine.
Go ahead.
S8 (32:44):
Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it.
S1 (32:49):
Thank you. You're welcome.
S8 (32:52):
Um, I am a newly widowed. My husband died in February,
and I have the. I know, me too. Thank you. Um,
our home is for sale, and I'm living at the cabin. Um. Uh,
I know that the the home is for sale for
(33:15):
a large amount. I know that I will have some
money to to, um. Be wise with when it sells.
And I'm looking for wisdom and guidance. I, um, have
two children that are married, eight adult grandchildren, and, uh,
(33:42):
three of them are married. Um, four little great grandchildren.
And two of the grandchildren are, uh, in business for themselves.
They're not way deep in business, but I would like
to use the money in many ways. Um, I'm debt free,
(34:05):
which is, um, a rich blessing. God has been really
good to my husband and I and to our family. And, um,
so I and we ha. I have an accountant that
we've had for quite a while. Um, he doesn't necessarily
(34:27):
give investment advice. I've talked with bankers that we've worked with, and, um,
I feel like we've been getting good advice, but this
is a little more money than I have got in
the bank right now. So, um, what would you do?
S1 (34:51):
Yeah, that's really helpful. Christine. Well, I'm so sorry to
hear about your husband's passing. And, um, you know, I
appreciate you just honoring the Lord and calling out his
faithfulness to you and your husband over the years, and
to your family. And and what a privilege to continue
to steward what he's entrusted to you in this next season,
and develop a vision for what God has for you
(35:12):
in the future. That certainly includes the resources that he
has provided and is continuing to provide. Um, I'd love
to just kind of run through, if you don't mind, quickly,
kind of where you're at financially and and talk about
kind of where this, the proceeds of this sale might
fit into that. And so what do you do? You
have some liquid savings right now.
S8 (35:35):
Yes. I, um, I have a CD, a fairly large CD,
over 100,000, um, coming due, um, at the end of December. Um,
and then I have another smaller CD that will be
(35:55):
due mid January, I believe. And it's 30,000, I believe. And, um.
And that will get me through I. Our home is.
S1 (36:09):
Let me let me stay on the savings for a second.
Do you have any liquid savings right now that's not
tied up in the CD?
S8 (36:15):
Yes. Um, I have about 11,000.
S1 (36:19):
Okay, great. And then what are your income sources?
S8 (36:23):
My social security.
S1 (36:24):
Okay. And is that enough for you to live on?
And do you have anything left over at the end
of the month?
S8 (36:30):
Um. It's close. Um, I have about. It's a little
more than 1900, and I try to just be careful. I, um, yeah, I,
I don't I'm not. I don't have, um, expenses other
than everyday expenses.
S1 (36:51):
Got it. Yep. And is this the the survivor's benefit?
The 1900?
S8 (36:55):
Hundred. Yes.
S1 (36:56):
Okay. Yes. Correct. And you said you're debt free, and
that's great. Now you're selling a home. What are you
going to receive in the proceeds of that sale?
S8 (37:05):
Well, it's for sale. 1,075,000.
S1 (37:09):
Okay. And do you. And you don't owe anything on it?
S8 (37:13):
No.
S1 (37:14):
Okay. And where are you headed after you sell it?
S8 (37:18):
I'm living at our cabin, which is, uh, paid for to, um.
And it's it's where I'm planning to live. It's close
to our daughter and her five children and a granddaughter
and her little family.
S1 (37:36):
So I love that. That's great. And so you're going
to have roughly $1 million that you could invest on
a conservative basis, whether that's in a CD or CDs or,
you know, government treasuries or money market or, you know,
a very conservative stock and bond portfolio if you wanted to,
but it sounds like based on your modest living, you've
(37:57):
got more than you're going to need. And so are
you wanting just to try to to safely generate some
income on this? Is that your primary objective? Would you
like to start giving some of it away either to
to ministry or charity or or to the kids? What
is your hope and plan with this million dollars at
this point?
S8 (38:17):
Well, all of the above I would like to give
to to the ministry, to a couple of ministries and um,
to our kids who have been a big help. Yeah.
And then I would like to have a little more income.
S1 (38:36):
Yeah, great. Well, the good news is you should be
absolutely able to do that. I mean, let's say and
I'm not trying to put a number here, but let's
say after expenses, you cleared $1 million and let's say you,
you had, you know, 100,000 worth that you wanted to
start giving away. Remember, you can give away 18,000 a
year per person to as many individuals as you want.
You don't even have to tell the IRS about it.
(38:57):
If you get above that, you still don't pay any tax.
You just have to let them know. Um, but you
could start giving away a little bit of that to
your heirs. You could even do some some charitable giving.
And let's say you ended up with 900,000. I mean,
you could easily pull 4% a year, and you should
be able to maintain the 900,000 for the rest of
your life and still pull 4% a year. That would
(39:20):
be another 3000 a month. And it doesn't sound like
you'd need that much. Um, and so that would potentially
allow you to do even more giving, you know, beyond 100,000. But, um,
you know, I think your next step is, is probably
to connect with a, a certified Kingdom advisor there in Minnesota,
somebody who is an advisor who can help you think
through these issues, help you discover even some of your
(39:42):
passions around the giving that you'd like to do, and
develop a vision for that, both to to ministries as
well as, um, you know, to your, your kids and
develop a plan for that. Also help you make sure
your estate plan is up to date. If any documents
need to be revisited after your husband's passing, that that
could be done. Um, I think that really is the
(40:04):
place to go from here and, you know, to find
a certified Kingdom advisor there in Minnesota, I'd head to
find a com that's find a com, you could do
a zip code search and maybe interview 2 or 3
in the area, find the one that's the best fit.
But the good news is it sounds like you're in
great shape. God has provided for you. Uh, and now
(40:27):
we just need a plan to go alongside the passions
and desires that he's given you. And I'm confident you're
going to be a wonderful steward of these resources. I'd
also like to send you a copy of, uh, issue
three of our magazine. Faithful steward. There's a wonderful. It's
actually a beautiful article written by Valerie Neff Hogan. Her
(40:50):
mom and Valerie started a ministry called Widow Connection for widows.
In this situation, she's an attorney, but she's also been
involved with the National Christian Foundation. But she wrote an
article in there called Financial Next Steps after losing a spouse.
And it walks you through your ten first, your first
ten steps. And then it also helps you determine which
(41:13):
one of the steps is to put a personal board
of directors in place. And and she defines what that is.
And she even tells you how to determine who those
people should be or who you know how to select them.
But I think this article will be a wonderful encouragement
to you. And so I'm going to have my team
send it to you. But how does all that sound, Christine?
S8 (41:33):
I'd love it. Thank you.
S1 (41:35):
Okay.
S8 (41:35):
Thank you. You're welcome.
S1 (41:36):
So I think you're on the right track. Be encouraged.
God has provided. He's there and is going to walk
with you. I'm confident. He has a wonderful plan and
purpose for this next season of your life. Um, and
I'm going to send you this article, so. Or this magazine.
So you stay on the line and then to find
an advisor in your area, just go to find a com.
(41:57):
Thanks for your call today Peter. Let's see if we
can get you scheduled to be first up tomorrow. I
apologize we didn't get to you folks here at the
end of the year. Let me challenge you, encourage you,
ask you if you would come alongside us here at
Faith Fi and the Faith and Finance Live radio program
and support our work. We're headed toward year end, which
is a really important time for every ministry you know
(42:17):
and love. On our way to 175,000, our year end goal,
there's a little more than 90,000 in the door so far.
So we still have a ways to go, but you
can help us get there. And good news every gift
doubled between now and the end of the year. And
with every gift, we'll send you my new devotional, Our
Ultimate Treasure. Go to faith. Give Josh Taylor to hear
(42:38):
an Omar serving us today. Faith and Finance Live is
a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith fi. We'll see
you tomorrow.
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