November 28, 2025 • 43 mins
1 John 4:19 states, “We love because He first loved us.” Those words beautifully capture the foundation of our relationship with God. We can only love and give because God first gave to us. On the next Faith & Finance Live, Sharon Epps joins Rob West for a fascinating discussion on the generosity of women in the Bible. Then, it’s on to your calls. That’s Faith and Finance Live—biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. That’s weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:03):
This faith and finance live is actually prerecorded, so please
don't call in. We love because he first loved us first.
John 419. Hi, I'm Rob West. Those six words beautifully
capture the foundation of our relationship with God. We can
only love and give because he first gave to us today.
(00:23):
Sharon Epps joins us for a fascinating discussion on the
generosity of women in the Bible. Then we have some
great calls lined up. But we won't be taking your
live calls today because we're prerecorded. This is faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, it's always one
(00:44):
of my favorite times when Sharon Epps takes the time
to join us. She's busy as president of Kingdom Advisors,
and we're so grateful for her insights. She's been studying
the women who financially supported Jesus and were named in
Luke chapter eight. And Sharon, it's great to have you here.
S2 (01:02):
Well, it's wonderful to be here. I'm excited to unpack
the first few verses of Luke eight as it talks
about the women who actually supported Jesus. And could I
just read the Word of God for a moment? Yeah.
Soon afterward, he went through cities and villages, proclaiming and
bringing the good news of the Kingdom of God. And
the 12 were with him, and also some women who
(01:23):
had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities. Mary called Magdalene,
from whom seven demons had gone out, and Joanna, the
wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager, and Susanna and many
others who provided for them out of their means. Now
listen to that last phrase these women provided for this
traveling entourage out of their own means. Take a particular
(01:47):
note of one of the women. Her name was Joanna.
She was the wife of King Herod's household manager, and
in this position, Joanna would have had wealth and a
royal lifestyle. But we also see that Jesus met her
in a weakened state. The Bible says that these women
had been healed of spiritual or physical infirmities. So in
this context, we see that Joanna's first act of generosity
(02:09):
was actually receiving from Jesus rather than giving.
S1 (02:12):
Oh, that's an interesting observation. Why do you think Luke
records that fact, Sharon?
S2 (02:17):
Well, I think it's probably to remind us that money
doesn't solve all of our problems and that we must
receive before we have anything to give.
S3 (02:24):
Yeah. That's right.
S1 (02:25):
Before we can give money, we have to first have money.
But this idea of receiving first isn't limited to just money,
is it?
S2 (02:33):
It really isn't. I mean, at the most fundamental level,
we must receive the breath of God before we have life.
That's right. We have to receive intelligence and skills and abilities.
We receive love from God and our family. And in fact,
in first Corinthians, Paul says, what do you have that
you did not receive? And the answer is, of course, nothing.
We often fail to recognize that giving by design starts
(02:55):
with receiving, we receive, then we give. And that process
creates a virtuous cycle.
S1 (03:01):
Oh, that's so good. Let's talk about Joanna a bit more.
What do you think motivated her generosity?
S2 (03:08):
Well, wouldn't you think it has to be her love
for Jesus and just gratitude for what he did for her,
for sure. Um, later in Luke 24, we actually find
that she's heartbroken and confused at the empty tomb. She
was there when the women encountered the two angels, and
she remembered the words of Jesus when they were at
the tomb. And it was she, Mary Magdalene, and Mary,
(03:30):
the mother of James, that went and told the apostles
what they saw. And her response was, I want to
tell others what Jesus has done for me.
S1 (03:40):
Oh, wow. Yeah, that's an awesome biblical account. Well, we
always want to apply this to what we can take away.
So what lessons would you share with our audience here?
S2 (03:48):
Well, I think for me, the thing I've been really
reflecting on is that generosity is a journey and it
involves our relationship with Christ as it grows deeper. Our
response to his love grows as well. And so Joanna
shows us this sacrificial kind of giving that's an expression
of extravagant love for Jesus. And my prayers that I
(04:10):
continue to receive so well, so that I can be
a conduit of Christ's love through generosity.
S1 (04:16):
Wow.
S2 (04:17):
And I'd really like to make it even practical. I
guess I'll just share where the Lord's had me in
asking some questions of myself. Um, first of all, what
is something that I need to recognize that I receive
from Christ before I can be an extravagant giver? Um,
so often I think we look at just what we
hold in our hand as mine. Yes. But am I
(04:38):
recognizing that it's a gift from Christ and ask myself, secondly,
am I safe or sacrificial in my giving? Yeah. And
then thirdly, what does my current giving indicate about how
well I've actually received.
S1 (04:52):
Mhm. Those are powerful folks. I would challenge you as well.
Ask those questions to yourself today. I'll do it. And
let's see where the Lord might take us. Sharon, these
are powerful observations from God's Word about the women who
financially supported Jesus. Thanks for your time today.
S2 (05:08):
Glad to be here.
S1 (05:09):
That's Sharon Epps. She's president of Kingdom Advisors, a frequent
and much appreciated contributor here at Faith and finance. Now,
we're not here to take your calls live today, but
we have plenty of calls that we lined up in advance.
And we'll get to those just around the corner. Don't
go anywhere. So thankful to have you with us today
(05:34):
on Faith and Finance live. I'm Rob West, by the way.
Our team is not here today. We're away from the studio,
so don't call in. But we've got some great questions
that we lined up in advance. We'll get to those
in just a bit. You know, I'm reminded as we
think about the role of money in our lives that
we need to counteract the messages of this world. We
need to operate from a biblical worldview. And when we
(05:57):
look to Scripture, I think we really see three big
ideas around the role of money. The first is money
is a tool. Yeah, we use it to buy things
for ourselves and others, and we use it to accomplish
God's purposes. But it's also a tool in the sense
that God uses money in my life to teach me
to rely on him. It's a daily demonstration of my faith.
(06:19):
It reveals where I've placed my trust and what I value.
So it's a tool. It's also a test. You know,
having too much or not enough can be a test.
Are we going to live with contentment? Will we choose contentment?
Are we going to rely on money in place of God?
It's a test in our lives, but it's also a testimony,
especially our willingness to trust God when we have little
(06:41):
or perhaps to share generously when we have much that
provides witness to an unbelieving world, even our faith to
handle money God's way in the midst of uncertain times.
That itself can be a great testimony to the world.
So money is a tool. It's also a test, and
it's a testimony that God uses to both provide for
(07:03):
my needs, as well as to grow me up in
my faith and rely more heavily on him. I hope
that's an encouragement to you today. Let's dive in. We're
going to begin today in Louisiana. Susie, go right ahead.
S4 (07:15):
Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. It's, um,
it's about a HELOC loan. I didn't know how it works. And, uh,
so I currently have one on this house that I,
I live in. I have a judgment of possession on
the house. My husband passed away very suddenly, and, uh,
(07:39):
so he and his first wife, uh, she passed away
as well a few years ago. They had signed for
this loan. And now she's gone and he's gone. And, uh,
I believe he was paying like, $500 a month. And, uh,
it was a lot for me because I still don't
(08:02):
know what my financial picture is going to look like
now that he's gone. And my sister in law, she
reduced it to $200 a month. But after I started
thinking about it, I just don't know if that was
the thing to do. And I went to the bank
and they still haven't been able to tell me all
the particulars. I don't know where to start and I
(08:24):
need to ask them some questions. So I was hoping
you could tell me what kind of questions I need
to ask my bank about that.
S1 (08:30):
Yeah. Well, um, I realize the, uh, the weight of
this because there's legal estate and financial issues that are
all intertwined here, um, you know, and you've got a
mix of these issues related to inheritance and debt responsibility
and and then, you know, we've got your own challenges
with regard to that judgment of possession. Um, so first
(08:53):
of all, uh, the home equity line of credit is,
of course, a loan secured by the property. And even
though your husband, uh, and his first wife have passed away,
the debt, of course, doesn't disappear. Uh, so your name
is on that helocs at this point, is that right?
S4 (09:11):
It is not.
S1 (09:12):
Okay. All right. Um, but it is attached to your home.
S4 (09:16):
It is attached to my home. And I believe that
they're wanting now for me to sign, you know, sign
on that loan. And I don't know what to do is,
I mean, can can that be renegotiated or. I don't know. So.
So a HELOC, is that like they give you a
line of credit? Because I think what it was was
(09:37):
like 40, 40 something thousand dollars was the loan. And uh,
the house, I believe at the time, four years ago
was like 186,000. Uh, the value and, uh, he had
borrowed it for, uh, home improvement. He added a room.
(09:58):
He turned his, uh, the garage or the double carport
into a large living room with an office and a small, uh,
room for his tools. But, um, I mean, how does
that work? Is that a line of credit?
S1 (10:17):
Yes, it it is. Absolutely.
S4 (10:20):
And he. Okay. So if he doesn't use it all,
what happens to that portion that he has not used?
Can that be can that be put back. You know,
can that be given back to the bank. I don't understand.
S1 (10:34):
Yeah, yeah. Well, it sounds like this loan is secured
by your property that you own. Did you own that
jointly with your husband and then it transferred to you
as the owner. Are you the only one on the
deed of that?
S4 (10:48):
That property at the prison? Yes I am.
S1 (10:52):
Okay. So the HELOC and these are legal matters. So
at the end of the day, you need to talk
to the bank. You're right. And perhaps an attorney. But
essentially the HELOC is a lien against the property not
necessarily against you personally. Um, so because your husband and
his first wife took out the HELOC, the lender's claim
(11:13):
is against the property, not you. Uh, however, now that
you own the property through inheritance or transfer or survivorship,
you own it subject to that lien, meaning the bank
still has rights to the collateral. So even though you
don't owe the debt personally, the property itself still secures
the debt. That means the lender can foreclose to recover
(11:36):
what's owed, and you want to avoid that at all costs.
You know, at all costs. Um, but they can't come
after you personally for payment unless you sign a new agreement.
And if they're wanting you to sign, you know they're
wanting a living borrower to take responsibility for repayment. Otherwise,
they can't easily collect. Um, and so by asking you
(11:58):
to sign, they're effectively saying, we'll let you keep the
line open, but we need you to assume the debt.
And if you sign, you're now going to become personally
liable for the balance. And that's, you know, a significant
legal and financial step. So I wouldn't sign anything unless
you fully understand what you're agreeing to. Now, if you
(12:18):
don't sign, um, then the bank can close the line.
And that's typically what would happen because the two borrowers
are now deceased, and then they can demand repayment from
the estate or through foreclosure on the property. And then
you could lose the home if the estate or you
doesn't pay the balance. Um, and so that might be
(12:41):
the reason, you know, that you would you would in
fact agree to take this on, because now you could
keep the line open, not be forced to sell the property,
which would be perhaps your only way, you know, to
cover whatever's outstanding. Um, but at the end of the day,
I think your next step is to really go to
a real estate or a probate attorney, uh, to evaluate
(13:05):
both the title, you know, the property title and the
estate law and help you determine, especially given what you
said about your own challenges with regard, uh, you know,
to the debts that you have, uh, specifically around the
judgment of possession, because, you know, that means that a
(13:25):
court probably has ruled in favor of another party granting
them legal possession of the property, which is often a
prelude to a foreclosure. Well, that means if that's true,
that time is short. So you want to contact the
court clerk immediately and find out what's the status of
the judgment. Call the lender to find out you know
(13:45):
what options you have, and then get with an attorney
who specializes in foreclosure defense who can help you navigate
all of these issues, your own judgment of possession as
well as the Pelosi. Does that make sense?
S4 (13:58):
Well, I, I got kind of lost there because I
thought the judgment of possession meant that, that the house
was given to me solely because there's nobody else. I mean,
he had no children. They didn't have children.
S1 (14:13):
Let me clarify that with you here during the break here,
because I've got to hit a break here. I want
to make sure I understand what you're saying with that
judgment of possession. Stay right there. This is faith and finance.
We'll be right back. So glad to have you with
(14:35):
us today on faith and finance live. I'm Rob West. Hey.
Our team is away from the studio today, so don't
call in. But we lined up some great questions in
advance that I know you will enjoy. I had a
chance to clarify a few things with Suzy and Louisiana
off the air. So there are not other debts. I
was thinking she was saying there was a a judgment
(14:55):
that had come through or was pending related to other
debts that she owed that was not that were not
in good standing. And that's not the case. All debts
have been cleared. She is under the impression this property
that was, uh, she was a party to with her husband,
her late husband, who, uh, had a first wife, um,
(15:16):
and he's now deceased, along with his first wife. Um,
she is under the impression that the probate court has
given her solely this property. The only debt outstanding on
is this home equity line of credit. And she's just
wondering how to engage the bank. And she needs somebody
who can help her review her options that the bank
is presenting to her, which is going to be either
(15:39):
signing to take personal responsibility for that and hopefully negotiating
favorable terms so that she can continue to pay on
it until it's paid off. Getting her own loan, either
a home equity line of credit or a small first
mortgage that she could then, of course, negotiate the terms
that are favorable to her with her new loan that
(16:00):
could be used to pay off the home equity line
of credit. Or, of course, she could sell the property
and pay it out of the proceeds. But in either case,
she wants to initiate that process sooner rather than later.
Because if it's in a default status, she doesn't know
the status of it. The collateral for that loan is
her property that she now owns, free and clear. And
so it's obviously in her very best interest to get
(16:22):
this moving, get in good communication with the lender, and
then either pay it off through a new loan or
take it on herself. Um, because she's got a lot
at stake with it being attached to this, this property
that she's living in. So Suzy's going to follow through
on that and keep us posted. Suzy, thanks for your
call today. Let's go to Ohio, Tony. Go ahead sir.
S5 (16:44):
Yes, thanks for taking my call and thanks for all
your help over the years. I've got a question here,
and I mean, before I say this, God has been
very good. My business is done extremely well, which is
hence the, I should say, the good problem I have.
So I'm being told that I should probably start looking
(17:05):
at going into real estate. Um, right now I'm in
the 37% tax bracket at this point. Um, and I've got,
I've got a CPA and a bunch of folks that
I'm working with. And one of the things that I've
been told is I need to probably get an SBA loan,
and I kind of wanted to first of all, just
understand how that all works. Um, they've already identified a business,
(17:28):
so this would be a business property, um, looking to
that's currently fully occupied. Um, that they're looking for me
to purchase. So I kind of wanted to understand. I've
never done that before. I've never owned, uh, real estate, uh, ever.
So I kind of wanted to understand a little bit
how that works and what I need for, uh, collateral, um,
(17:50):
for starters. And then I have another question around donor
advised fund.
S1 (17:54):
Okay. Got it. Yeah. And, uh, and specifically tell me
about this property that you're looking at.
S5 (18:01):
Yeah. So it's an office property, um, in my area. Um,
it's fully rented out. The, uh, it's up for sale
right now. According to the listing website. Um, it's been
on the market for about 70 something days. The asking
price is approximately 450 grand. Um, that's the most that
(18:23):
I know about it. Uh, it's fully occupied, and it
looks well maintained and all that sense. I guess the
owner just wants to sell it at this point.
S1 (18:32):
Got it. Okay. Very good. Yeah. So obviously you've done well. Um,
and you said you really don't have a whole lot
of experience or any in being, uh, you know, invested
in real estate or being a landlord, is that right?
S5 (18:45):
Never. Yeah.
S1 (18:46):
Okay. All right. Very good. Well, you mentioned an SBA loan,
so let's start there. Um, you know, that isn't money
directly from the government. It's made available by a bank
or a credit union. But the SBA, the Small Business Administration,
guarantees a portion of the loan, usually up to 85%.
And that makes lenders more willing to lend, especially to
(19:06):
small business owners who might not otherwise qualify for traditional
commercial financing. There's two kinds of that are that are
relevant here. The SBA seven loan. That's the most common
that could be used for buying owner occupied real estate
or working capital or equipment or things like that. Terms
(19:26):
of up to 25 years for real estate, ten years
for equipment or working capital. And it's usually the prime
rate plus 2 or 3% above that. And then there's
another type of loan from the SBA specifically for buying
fixed assets like commercial real estate or large equipment. It's
half a bank loan and then half an SBA backed
(19:50):
loan through another type of company. And then you usually
have a down payment and it's long term fixed rate financing. Um,
you know, in terms of this property, uh, you know,
this fully rented office building, I think there's, you know,
kind of two directions. You could go here if you
plan to use, you know, at least 51% of it, uh,
(20:11):
for your own business, then it qualifies as owner occupied. Otherwise,
it's an investment property. And if it's fully rented and
you just want it as an investment, that's not going
to be SBA eligible. They only finance owner occupied properties.
And so you'd need a commercial investment loan, which typically
is going to require 25 to 30% down and it's
(20:33):
going to have a higher rate. But the property's rental
income and value are going to be, you know, significant
underwriting factors. Um, in terms of the collateral, uh, the
property itself is the main collateral, of course. And then
they may take a personal guarantee. Um, but sometimes they
require additional collateral like business assets or savings. So you're
going to need to be ready for appraisal and environmental reports, maybe, and,
(20:56):
you know, full financial documentation, a personal financial statement, that
kind of thing. So let me stop there and just
see what questions you have.
S5 (21:05):
Um, yeah. So I think that that's that's very helpful.
So you're saying that, um, for me to qualify for
the first option, the half you said half SBA and
then half, I guess a bank loan, I'd have to
occupy 51% of the building.
S1 (21:24):
Yeah. So are you looking at this as just a
pure investment play, or are you actually going to operate
a business out of part of this property.
S5 (21:31):
I am going to operate a business out of it
as well. I'm not sure if it's going to be 51%
of the buildings, but I am going to operate my
business out of it as well.
S1 (21:39):
Yeah. Got it. Okay. Yes. So it does my understanding
it doesn't need to be at least 51% of the property.
Otherwise it's deemed just a pure investment and then SBA
would not qualify. I know you had other questions. Stay there.
We'll get to that after the break. This is faith
and finance. We'll be right back. So glad to have
(22:05):
you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. Our
team is away today, so don't call in. But we
lined up some great questions in advance and we'll be
going to those here in just a moment. Let me
also remind you that the advice that I give each
day on this program is general in nature. We offer
principles and ideas that apply at a high level. They
(22:26):
are not personalized. So that's why you should always seek
professional financial advice. And if you'd like to find a
professional who shares your values, we of course, here at
Faith and Finance Live recommend the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation.
These are men and women who've met high standards, and
they've been trained to bring a biblical worldview of financial
decision making. You can find 1@faith.com. All right. Let's head
(22:50):
back to the phones. Uh, Tony called before the break
from Ohio. He's a 49, working full time. He's a
business owner. He's had some great success. He does have
a tax, um, burden that he's looking for, a way
to to lessen. He's in a a top tax bracket. Um,
he's also considering getting into real estate. And you had
asked about that 51% rule with regard to, you know,
(23:12):
if you're going into a real estate property, an investment property,
but you're also going to be there in terms of
being owner occupied. The SBA requires that business occupy 51%
of the property in order to qualify for that SBA
real estate loan. And so basically, it's designed to help
small businesses own real estate. They operate from not become
(23:36):
landlords or investors. So that's why, you know, they say
that 51% of the square footage has to be used
for that purpose to be owner occupied. And it's basically,
you know, you physically have to use 51% or more
of the total rentable space for your own operations, and
then you could rent out to other tenants the remaining 49%. Now,
(23:59):
I'm certainly not an expert on SBA loans. It might
be behoove you to get with somebody who is who
could help you just think through. Are there other avenues
or strategies you could use to acquire this property if
you're not planning to take that much? Um, but just
generally speaking, that needs to be something that's on your
radar because those issues are real. I know you had
(24:19):
a follow up question, Tony, related to a donor advised fund.
Go ahead with that.
S5 (24:25):
Yes. So, um, and I think you touched on it earlier.
So I have a, I have a significant tax bill. Um,
and I'm trying to see again also planned for my
giving next year. Yeah. Um, so I am looking to
contribute to a donor advised fund. But my main concern
the question is could this a significant amount, um, what
(24:45):
kind of. And I certainly want this to go to my,
my local church and charities, uh, that I really want
to contribute to. But again, I know you've indicated that
once you give it, it's giving. So my concern is
how much control do I actually have once I've given
it to in this case NCF given.
S1 (25:04):
Yeah. Well, it's a great question. I'm so glad you're
asking it because what a lot of people don't realize,
although the The Donor Advised fund is my favorite giving tool,
think of it like a charitable checking account. You can
put cash in it, you can put assets into it.
Business interest. It's a great place for you to, you know,
give appreciated assets before they're sold. Once it hits the account,
(25:29):
even while it's in the donor advised fund, you can
invest it while you're waiting to give it away. And
then you have advisory privileges, meaning you can recommend which
charities to support when and how much you can do
that in your name or anonymously. But you're hitting on
a key point and that is this once you contribute
(25:49):
to a donor advised fund, and this is how you
can get an immediate charitable contribution receipt for that gift
even before it's given away. Once you contribute, you've made
an irrevocable gift to the sponsoring charity, what's called the
donor advised fund sponsor. They own the funds. That's why
there's an immediate tax deduction. And then you retain, according
(26:12):
to the law what are called advisory privileges. And the
sponsor has to approve the grant, ensuring that the recipient
is a qualified 500 1C3. C3. But here's the key part.
And that it aligns with the sponsor's policies. And they
can determine what those policies are, which is precisely why
(26:33):
I'm a big advocate of you having a fund at
the National Christian Foundation, because that's why they exist. You know,
NCF is really there, and the main reason believers choose
the National Christian Foundation is because they're all about biblically
aligned giving. So they're absolutely going to approve grants only, uh,
(26:56):
you know, to 501 C3 organizations whose work doesn't conflict
with Christian values and make it easy for you to
give to your church and ministries and mission organizations. And
since it was founded back in the 70s by Larry
Burkett and Ron Blue and Terry Parker, it has not
had one ounce of mission drift in terms of what
(27:16):
it's for. And literally more than $20 billion has flowed through, uh,
NCF to more than 40,000 charities and ministries and churches.
And so I would say if you're choosing between, you know,
the big players out there like Fidelity Charitable or Schwab Charitable,
that's why I would always go with NCF. And it's
precisely for this reason that you're calling out Tony. And
(27:39):
that is, you can have confidence that you're never going
to be kind of stopped in your tracks when you,
you know, recommend or advise on a grant out to
a Christian ministry. Does that make sense?
S5 (27:52):
Yes it does. Thank you very much. Yeah, I think
that's it. I'm good.
S1 (27:55):
Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. Tony. By the way, folks,
if you'd like to open a donor advised fund with
the National Christian Foundation, it's quick and easy to do.
Just head to our website. Faith. Com again that stands
for National Christian foundation.com slash. You can open your giving
fund today. And by the way this is a great
(28:15):
time of year to do it. All right to Virginia
Maggie how can I help.
S6 (28:22):
I am calling because. Good morning. I'm calling because in 2020. Hi.
Good morning. I'm calling because in 2024, my husband and
I needed to move into an Ada condo. And sadly,
we traded our 2.25% mortgage rate on our home for
a 7% rate on the condo. And so I was
(28:42):
wondering two things. One, it seems like interest rates are
coming down. I was wondering if you had I know it's,
you know, guessing, but an idea like how low and
how they might go or when that might be. And two, importantly,
at what point is it worth it to refinance? Because
the 7% is really killing us.
S1 (29:02):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, and where are you at right now? Uh,
on your rate.
S6 (29:10):
7%.
S1 (29:11):
Okay. 7%. Uh, yeah. So you're going to want to
wait until. I mean, my general rule of thumb is
at least 1%, preferably 1.5% lower. So for you, that's
going to be, you know, five and a half to 6%
on interest rates. And you also, in addition to saving
1 to 1.5%, you really want to be able to
(29:33):
commit to staying in that property for at least five years.
And that's going to ensure that the cost of that refinance,
which can run, you know, 3% or more of the
mortgage balance, is going to be able to be recouped
through the interest savings. Because remember, when you start a
new loan over the majority of it's going to interest,
you want to save at least the expense that you
(29:55):
incurred for the refi or it's not worth it. You
might as well have just stuck with the the current, uh,
you know, interest rate that you have. Now, the question is,
when are we going to hit that? Well nobody knows.
I mean, we could look at some estimates. Um, you know,
I think the last I saw was that Fannie Mae, uh,
was projecting. You know, perhaps we're at 6.3 by the
(30:18):
end of 2025, and maybe just under 6% by the
end of 2026. Um, which is still above 5.5%, which
is my ideal 1.5% lower, but but under but greater
than 1% lower, which would, I think, put it in play. Uh,
there are others that are not as optimistic. Some think
that we'll still be hovering, you know, in the mid 60s.
(30:42):
So I think at this point the key is for
you just to wait it out, pay as much toward
principle as possible and keep watching those rates. Thanks for
your call, Maggie. God bless you. We'll be right back.
S7 (31:05):
This is our final segment of a faith and finance
live program that we previously recorded. Thanks so much for
being with us today, and we hope you'll stick around
and enjoy the rest of the program. Am.
S1 (31:16):
Uh, back to the phones. We go. Let's go out
to Michigan. Hi, Carol. Go ahead.
S8 (31:20):
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Yes, ma'am. I had
a question about. I had a question about independent living
after you turn a certain age. I'm 58 years old
right now. I'm on disability. I only get about $1,300
a month. And that's before Medicare is taken out. And
I'm able to work part time right now out of
my home. I guess what I'm wondering is, and I'm married,
(31:42):
wondering if something would happen to my husband or if
I was left alone. What would be the best option
for me? Obviously, I would probably sell my house, and
I believe I could wind up with maybe 200,000 or
so after taxes and realtor fees and whatnot, but I'm
wondering where would be the best place for me to go.
The steps would be, and how I would handle a
(32:03):
situation like that.
S1 (32:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great question and I'm
glad to hear you thinking about that. Now, you know,
we know that the data says that as men we
will predecease our wives. and I think, you know, so
often at least I hear from so many widows on
this program that, you know, find themselves after a husband
passes away, especially if he's been the one. And this
(32:25):
certainly isn't always the case. But if he's been the
one who's managed the financial affairs, a lot of times
widows will feel just have a lot of questions and feel,
you know, ill prepared to manage their finances moving forward.
And so I think leaning into that right now, Carol,
and having a plan to understand not only what assets
as the Lord entrusted to you, but kind of what
(32:46):
would your next steps be? I think the first thing
would be just to establish a reasonable budget to determine
what you have available to you. Did you say you're
both collecting Social Security right now?
S8 (32:58):
No, neither one of us are. I'm only 58. He's 61.
I get disability, disability, I got disability. Um, yeah. If
I ever wound up getting his Social Security, it would
be a little bit more than mine. Mine's 1300. It
would probably go up to maybe 2200, but that's another
nine years away for me.
S1 (33:16):
Yeah.
S8 (33:16):
Yeah.
S1 (33:17):
Okay. And is he continuing to work?
S8 (33:20):
Yes. Yeah. Okay.
S1 (33:22):
Yeah. And are you all putting money aside every month
toward retirement?
S8 (33:27):
It's really hard to do that. I hardly make anything.
And he doesn't make a lot. And I have a
lot of medical expenses, so it's almost impossible. And then
when we do, we need to use it for car
repairs and whatnot.
S1 (33:39):
Okay. And so other than the 200,000, you think you
could net from the house? What what other assets do
you have currently?
S8 (33:46):
I mean, that's pretty much that would be it. I
don't have any, like, retirement accounts. I mean, I took
my retirement out and I have well, actually, I had
30,000 in gold and silver, so I guess that would
be another asset.
S1 (33:59):
Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Well, here's the reality is, I mean,
you know, the key would be for you all to
wait as long as you can to take Social Security.
You know, and I think the key for him is
the longer he can work, the better. And the same.
You know, I know you're on disability, but I think
the extent to which you all can delay collecting Social Security,
(34:22):
even if he could wait all the way to age 70,
that would be ideal, because he could get his check
up 25% or thereabouts, higher than what he's scheduled to
get as at full retirement age, which would help because
if he's, you know, scheduled to get 1200 a month
at full retirement age, that would, you know, might take
that up to $2,750, which could be a pretty significant
(34:46):
game changer for you just to have what you need
to cover your bills. And you would get that as
survivor's benefits. And then obviously, if you sold the home,
you'd have the couple hundred thousand dollars. And, you know,
that could be converted to an income stream as well,
you know, which would be, you know, probably you could
pull 8000 a year or about $650 a month. So
(35:07):
if you put all those together, you know, that's uh,
650 a month. And then if you were to add
2700 from his Social Security, if he waited to 70,
that gives you 3300 a month. So that would give
you an option. I mean, if you ended up spending
those assets down because you needed some sort of care,
whether that's in-home care or full nursing care or something
(35:28):
in between, you know, then that's where Medicaid would kick
in and you could go to a medicaid approved, you know,
independent living or nursing home facility. You know, if you
needed care. And they would, you know, cover that once
your assets had been spent down. So I think the
key for you all is just to delay, as long
as you can keep your lifestyle at a minimum, try
(35:50):
to save when possible. Uh, I realize you have, you know,
a lot of expenses, including medical expenses, but, you know,
getting that Social Security up as high as possible and
staying out of debt or getting out of debt if
you have some debt now and then ultimately liquidating that,
that home, you know, would probably give you the ability
to at least either stay there and cover your bills
(36:11):
from Social Security or loan or sell the house. Use
that plus Social Security, you know, to live. And if
at some point you needed some additional care, you could
get that. Does that make sense?
S8 (36:23):
Yeah it does. And I was just curious to one
quick question. You had mentioned reverse mortgages before, I think,
on here. And you gave a number and it was
movement or something like that.
S1 (36:34):
Yeah. So movement is an underwriter of this program, and
they do specialize in the area of reverse mortgages. And
that could be an option as well where if you
wanted to stay there, essentially you could convert that to
an income stream and then stay there for the rest
of your life. As long as you pay the taxes
and the insurance, you'd never have a payment. And that
would be another way to boost your income. The website
(36:56):
is movement. Movement. Thank you for your call today, Carol.
We appreciate you being on the program. Let's go to Texas. Terri,
thanks for your patience. Go ahead.
S8 (37:09):
Hello.
S1 (37:10):
Hi, there. How can I help you?
S9 (37:12):
Uh. Two questions. Can you explain how a fixed annuity works?
And I have and tod on every asset that I own.
Do I need a will?
S1 (37:26):
Mhm. Yeah. Very good. Uh, so a fixed annuity is
an insurance product that provides guaranteed interest and predictable income.
That's why people buy them. If somebody buys them, uh,
you give an insurance company a lump sum or a
series of payments, you choose, and in return, they guarantee
(37:48):
a set rate of interest for, uh, you know, a
period of time, um, or guaranteed income for life. And
it's designed for safety and stability, not growth. The key
points are, I mean, you get modest growth, but that's
that's not why people tend to buy them, because you
can historically do better outside of an annuity product. But
(38:10):
somebody who wants to transfer that risk to an insurance
company and is happy with the rate of return and
then can eventually, you know, convert that to an income stream,
you know, that's usually why they buy them. Um, now
there's a deferred a fixed annuity that earns a guaranteed
rate for a term. There's an immediate fixed annuity where
(38:30):
you put a lump sum in, and they immediately just
start paying you an income for the rest of your life. Um,
or there's tax deferred growth where the earnings aren't taxed
until they're withdrawn. Now, the second part of your question
was related to your estate plan. You've got a transfer
on death for your investment accounts. You've got a payable
on death pod for your bank accounts and a lady
(38:54):
bird deed for your home. All avoid probate. That's great.
That's going to keep it out of probate, which is
time and expense, and automatically transfer the assets to your name. Beneficiaries.
I'll say yes. You need a will because that's going
to cover everything not already titled with beneficiaries. What is that?
Personal property, vehicles, digital assets, anything you've overlooked. Um, and
(39:20):
you'd also want to name an executor that can express
final wishes like charitable gifts or personal bequests. So although
I think you're well planned, and I like the fact
that you have all those things, a simple will is
still wise because there's going to be a few other
things that fall outside of that. And if you don't
want people kind of, you know, you know, trying to
(39:41):
figure out where you wanted them to go, uh, it's
helpful to have that will as the catch all. Is
that helpful?
S9 (39:48):
It is. I just want to make sure my bases
were covered. Everything. I don't imagine my kids wanting any
of the quote unquote personal items. All I hear about
these days is kids groaning about having to clean out
their parents houses.
S1 (40:03):
Yes. Well, you might be surprised. There may be some
things they want to have and hang on to, but
I think in either case it just, you know, it
makes things simpler because there's not a lot of questions
that they're having to nail down. Everything's been outlined. And
it's it's very simple and fairly cost effective. Uh, to do. Uh, also,
you did not mention a health care power of attorney
(40:25):
or a living will. Those two things would be helpful
if you don't have them. So you can name the
person and make specifically medically related decisions on your behalf.
So hopefully that helps you. Terry, thanks for your call today.
Lord bless you. Uh, we're going to stay in Texas
and talk to Jeff. Go ahead.
S10 (40:41):
I hear you talk about people's debt on here a
bit here and there, and I have some that I've
started accumulating and wanting to get your thoughts on it,
on what to do with it. I got, uh, got
about 12 K of credit card debt I've had for
a couple of years, and now I've got some, uh,
medical debt that's come up about ten k, and I'm
going to need to spend about five K fairly soon
(41:04):
on some home repair. Um, now I've also got a
$35,000 auto loan, but I'm not really concerned about that. Um,
maybe I should be, but I was just wondering, you know,
I've got, uh, um, some money in my house. You know,
it's a HELOC loan. The way to go or.
S1 (41:25):
Yeah, I would say. And unfortunately, I have just a
little bit of time here. I would say for the,
you know, home renovation, that that'd be the only place
I'd want the HELOC with the medical debt. I'd negotiate
with them directly. They're very willing to work with you
and set up a payment plan, the auto loan. I'd
leave that right there and not attach it to your house.
Just keep your lifestyle at a minimum and pay it
(41:45):
as quickly as you can. And then with the credit
card debt, I certainly wouldn't take unsecured debt and secure
it to your home. I'd use a debt management and
call Christian credit counselors or go online Christian credit counselors.org. So, uh,
that's the way I would handle that. I'd want to
keep as much of that off the house as possible,
with the exception of maybe the home improvement. Unfortunately, I'm
(42:05):
out of time, Jeff, but I appreciate your call today, sir.
Lord bless you folks here at the end of the year.
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from you as a listener supported ministry. Good news. We
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(42:27):
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(42:50):
I hope you have a great rest of your day
and we'll see you next time on Faith and Finance live.
This faith and finance live is actually prerecorded, so please
don't call in. We love because he first loved us first.
John 419. Hi, I'm Rob West. Those six words beautifully
capture the foundation of our relationship with God. We can
only love and give because he first gave to us today.
(00:23):
Sharon Epps joins us for a fascinating discussion on the
generosity of women in the Bible. Then we have some
great calls lined up. But we won't be taking your
live calls today because we're prerecorded. This is faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, it's always one
(00:44):
of my favorite times when Sharon Epps takes the time
to join us. She's busy as president of Kingdom Advisors,
and we're so grateful for her insights. She's been studying
the women who financially supported Jesus and were named in
Luke chapter eight. And Sharon, it's great to have you here.
S2 (01:02):
Well, it's wonderful to be here. I'm excited to unpack
the first few verses of Luke eight as it talks
about the women who actually supported Jesus. And could I
just read the Word of God for a moment? Yeah.
Soon afterward, he went through cities and villages, proclaiming and
bringing the good news of the Kingdom of God. And
the 12 were with him, and also some women who
(01:23):
had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities. Mary called Magdalene,
from whom seven demons had gone out, and Joanna, the
wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager, and Susanna and many
others who provided for them out of their means. Now
listen to that last phrase these women provided for this
traveling entourage out of their own means. Take a particular
(01:47):
note of one of the women. Her name was Joanna.
She was the wife of King Herod's household manager, and
in this position, Joanna would have had wealth and a
royal lifestyle. But we also see that Jesus met her
in a weakened state. The Bible says that these women
had been healed of spiritual or physical infirmities. So in
this context, we see that Joanna's first act of generosity
(02:09):
was actually receiving from Jesus rather than giving.
S1 (02:12):
Oh, that's an interesting observation. Why do you think Luke
records that fact, Sharon?
S2 (02:17):
Well, I think it's probably to remind us that money
doesn't solve all of our problems and that we must
receive before we have anything to give.
S3 (02:24):
Yeah. That's right.
S1 (02:25):
Before we can give money, we have to first have money.
But this idea of receiving first isn't limited to just money,
is it?
S2 (02:33):
It really isn't. I mean, at the most fundamental level,
we must receive the breath of God before we have life.
That's right. We have to receive intelligence and skills and abilities.
We receive love from God and our family. And in fact,
in first Corinthians, Paul says, what do you have that
you did not receive? And the answer is, of course, nothing.
We often fail to recognize that giving by design starts
(02:55):
with receiving, we receive, then we give. And that process
creates a virtuous cycle.
S1 (03:01):
Oh, that's so good. Let's talk about Joanna a bit more.
What do you think motivated her generosity?
S2 (03:08):
Well, wouldn't you think it has to be her love
for Jesus and just gratitude for what he did for her,
for sure. Um, later in Luke 24, we actually find
that she's heartbroken and confused at the empty tomb. She
was there when the women encountered the two angels, and
she remembered the words of Jesus when they were at
the tomb. And it was she, Mary Magdalene, and Mary,
(03:30):
the mother of James, that went and told the apostles
what they saw. And her response was, I want to
tell others what Jesus has done for me.
S1 (03:40):
Oh, wow. Yeah, that's an awesome biblical account. Well, we
always want to apply this to what we can take away.
So what lessons would you share with our audience here?
S2 (03:48):
Well, I think for me, the thing I've been really
reflecting on is that generosity is a journey and it
involves our relationship with Christ as it grows deeper. Our
response to his love grows as well. And so Joanna
shows us this sacrificial kind of giving that's an expression
of extravagant love for Jesus. And my prayers that I
(04:10):
continue to receive so well, so that I can be
a conduit of Christ's love through generosity.
S1 (04:16):
Wow.
S2 (04:17):
And I'd really like to make it even practical. I
guess I'll just share where the Lord's had me in
asking some questions of myself. Um, first of all, what
is something that I need to recognize that I receive
from Christ before I can be an extravagant giver? Um,
so often I think we look at just what we
hold in our hand as mine. Yes. But am I
(04:38):
recognizing that it's a gift from Christ and ask myself, secondly,
am I safe or sacrificial in my giving? Yeah. And
then thirdly, what does my current giving indicate about how
well I've actually received.
S1 (04:52):
Mhm. Those are powerful folks. I would challenge you as well.
Ask those questions to yourself today. I'll do it. And
let's see where the Lord might take us. Sharon, these
are powerful observations from God's Word about the women who
financially supported Jesus. Thanks for your time today.
S2 (05:08):
Glad to be here.
S1 (05:09):
That's Sharon Epps. She's president of Kingdom Advisors, a frequent
and much appreciated contributor here at Faith and finance. Now,
we're not here to take your calls live today, but
we have plenty of calls that we lined up in advance.
And we'll get to those just around the corner. Don't
go anywhere. So thankful to have you with us today
(05:34):
on Faith and Finance live. I'm Rob West, by the way.
Our team is not here today. We're away from the studio,
so don't call in. But we've got some great questions
that we lined up in advance. We'll get to those
in just a bit. You know, I'm reminded as we
think about the role of money in our lives that
we need to counteract the messages of this world. We
need to operate from a biblical worldview. And when we
(05:57):
look to Scripture, I think we really see three big
ideas around the role of money. The first is money
is a tool. Yeah, we use it to buy things
for ourselves and others, and we use it to accomplish
God's purposes. But it's also a tool in the sense
that God uses money in my life to teach me
to rely on him. It's a daily demonstration of my faith.
(06:19):
It reveals where I've placed my trust and what I value.
So it's a tool. It's also a test. You know,
having too much or not enough can be a test.
Are we going to live with contentment? Will we choose contentment?
Are we going to rely on money in place of God?
It's a test in our lives, but it's also a testimony,
especially our willingness to trust God when we have little
(06:41):
or perhaps to share generously when we have much that
provides witness to an unbelieving world, even our faith to
handle money God's way in the midst of uncertain times.
That itself can be a great testimony to the world.
So money is a tool. It's also a test, and
it's a testimony that God uses to both provide for
(07:03):
my needs, as well as to grow me up in
my faith and rely more heavily on him. I hope
that's an encouragement to you today. Let's dive in. We're
going to begin today in Louisiana. Susie, go right ahead.
S4 (07:15):
Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. It's, um,
it's about a HELOC loan. I didn't know how it works. And, uh,
so I currently have one on this house that I,
I live in. I have a judgment of possession on
the house. My husband passed away very suddenly, and, uh,
(07:39):
so he and his first wife, uh, she passed away
as well a few years ago. They had signed for
this loan. And now she's gone and he's gone. And, uh,
I believe he was paying like, $500 a month. And, uh,
it was a lot for me because I still don't
(08:02):
know what my financial picture is going to look like
now that he's gone. And my sister in law, she
reduced it to $200 a month. But after I started
thinking about it, I just don't know if that was
the thing to do. And I went to the bank
and they still haven't been able to tell me all
the particulars. I don't know where to start and I
(08:24):
need to ask them some questions. So I was hoping
you could tell me what kind of questions I need
to ask my bank about that.
S1 (08:30):
Yeah. Well, um, I realize the, uh, the weight of
this because there's legal estate and financial issues that are
all intertwined here, um, you know, and you've got a
mix of these issues related to inheritance and debt responsibility
and and then, you know, we've got your own challenges
with regard to that judgment of possession. Um, so first
(08:53):
of all, uh, the home equity line of credit is,
of course, a loan secured by the property. And even
though your husband, uh, and his first wife have passed away,
the debt, of course, doesn't disappear. Uh, so your name
is on that helocs at this point, is that right?
S4 (09:11):
It is not.
S1 (09:12):
Okay. All right. Um, but it is attached to your home.
S4 (09:16):
It is attached to my home. And I believe that
they're wanting now for me to sign, you know, sign
on that loan. And I don't know what to do is,
I mean, can can that be renegotiated or. I don't know. So.
So a HELOC, is that like they give you a
line of credit? Because I think what it was was
(09:37):
like 40, 40 something thousand dollars was the loan. And uh,
the house, I believe at the time, four years ago
was like 186,000. Uh, the value and, uh, he had
borrowed it for, uh, home improvement. He added a room.
(09:58):
He turned his, uh, the garage or the double carport
into a large living room with an office and a small, uh,
room for his tools. But, um, I mean, how does
that work? Is that a line of credit?
S1 (10:17):
Yes, it it is. Absolutely.
S4 (10:20):
And he. Okay. So if he doesn't use it all,
what happens to that portion that he has not used?
Can that be can that be put back. You know,
can that be given back to the bank. I don't understand.
S1 (10:34):
Yeah, yeah. Well, it sounds like this loan is secured
by your property that you own. Did you own that
jointly with your husband and then it transferred to you
as the owner. Are you the only one on the
deed of that?
S4 (10:48):
That property at the prison? Yes I am.
S1 (10:52):
Okay. So the HELOC and these are legal matters. So
at the end of the day, you need to talk
to the bank. You're right. And perhaps an attorney. But
essentially the HELOC is a lien against the property not
necessarily against you personally. Um, so because your husband and
his first wife took out the HELOC, the lender's claim
(11:13):
is against the property, not you. Uh, however, now that
you own the property through inheritance or transfer or survivorship,
you own it subject to that lien, meaning the bank
still has rights to the collateral. So even though you
don't owe the debt personally, the property itself still secures
the debt. That means the lender can foreclose to recover
(11:36):
what's owed, and you want to avoid that at all costs.
You know, at all costs. Um, but they can't come
after you personally for payment unless you sign a new agreement.
And if they're wanting you to sign, you know they're
wanting a living borrower to take responsibility for repayment. Otherwise,
they can't easily collect. Um, and so by asking you
(11:58):
to sign, they're effectively saying, we'll let you keep the
line open, but we need you to assume the debt.
And if you sign, you're now going to become personally
liable for the balance. And that's, you know, a significant
legal and financial step. So I wouldn't sign anything unless
you fully understand what you're agreeing to. Now, if you
(12:18):
don't sign, um, then the bank can close the line.
And that's typically what would happen because the two borrowers
are now deceased, and then they can demand repayment from
the estate or through foreclosure on the property. And then
you could lose the home if the estate or you
doesn't pay the balance. Um, and so that might be
(12:41):
the reason, you know, that you would you would in
fact agree to take this on, because now you could
keep the line open, not be forced to sell the property,
which would be perhaps your only way, you know, to
cover whatever's outstanding. Um, but at the end of the day,
I think your next step is to really go to
a real estate or a probate attorney, uh, to evaluate
(13:05):
both the title, you know, the property title and the
estate law and help you determine, especially given what you
said about your own challenges with regard, uh, you know,
to the debts that you have, uh, specifically around the
judgment of possession, because, you know, that means that a
(13:25):
court probably has ruled in favor of another party granting
them legal possession of the property, which is often a
prelude to a foreclosure. Well, that means if that's true,
that time is short. So you want to contact the
court clerk immediately and find out what's the status of
the judgment. Call the lender to find out you know
(13:45):
what options you have, and then get with an attorney
who specializes in foreclosure defense who can help you navigate
all of these issues, your own judgment of possession as
well as the Pelosi. Does that make sense?
S4 (13:58):
Well, I, I got kind of lost there because I
thought the judgment of possession meant that, that the house
was given to me solely because there's nobody else. I mean,
he had no children. They didn't have children.
S1 (14:13):
Let me clarify that with you here during the break here,
because I've got to hit a break here. I want
to make sure I understand what you're saying with that
judgment of possession. Stay right there. This is faith and finance.
We'll be right back. So glad to have you with
(14:35):
us today on faith and finance live. I'm Rob West. Hey.
Our team is away from the studio today, so don't
call in. But we lined up some great questions in
advance that I know you will enjoy. I had a
chance to clarify a few things with Suzy and Louisiana
off the air. So there are not other debts. I
was thinking she was saying there was a a judgment
(14:55):
that had come through or was pending related to other
debts that she owed that was not that were not
in good standing. And that's not the case. All debts
have been cleared. She is under the impression this property
that was, uh, she was a party to with her husband,
her late husband, who, uh, had a first wife, um,
(15:16):
and he's now deceased, along with his first wife. Um,
she is under the impression that the probate court has
given her solely this property. The only debt outstanding on
is this home equity line of credit. And she's just
wondering how to engage the bank. And she needs somebody
who can help her review her options that the bank
is presenting to her, which is going to be either
(15:39):
signing to take personal responsibility for that and hopefully negotiating
favorable terms so that she can continue to pay on
it until it's paid off. Getting her own loan, either
a home equity line of credit or a small first
mortgage that she could then, of course, negotiate the terms
that are favorable to her with her new loan that
(16:00):
could be used to pay off the home equity line
of credit. Or, of course, she could sell the property
and pay it out of the proceeds. But in either case,
she wants to initiate that process sooner rather than later.
Because if it's in a default status, she doesn't know
the status of it. The collateral for that loan is
her property that she now owns, free and clear. And
so it's obviously in her very best interest to get
(16:22):
this moving, get in good communication with the lender, and
then either pay it off through a new loan or
take it on herself. Um, because she's got a lot
at stake with it being attached to this, this property
that she's living in. So Suzy's going to follow through
on that and keep us posted. Suzy, thanks for your
call today. Let's go to Ohio, Tony. Go ahead sir.
S5 (16:44):
Yes, thanks for taking my call and thanks for all
your help over the years. I've got a question here,
and I mean, before I say this, God has been
very good. My business is done extremely well, which is
hence the, I should say, the good problem I have.
So I'm being told that I should probably start looking
(17:05):
at going into real estate. Um, right now I'm in
the 37% tax bracket at this point. Um, and I've got,
I've got a CPA and a bunch of folks that
I'm working with. And one of the things that I've
been told is I need to probably get an SBA loan,
and I kind of wanted to first of all, just
understand how that all works. Um, they've already identified a business,
(17:28):
so this would be a business property, um, looking to
that's currently fully occupied. Um, that they're looking for me
to purchase. So I kind of wanted to understand. I've
never done that before. I've never owned, uh, real estate, uh, ever.
So I kind of wanted to understand a little bit
how that works and what I need for, uh, collateral, um,
(17:50):
for starters. And then I have another question around donor
advised fund.
S1 (17:54):
Okay. Got it. Yeah. And, uh, and specifically tell me
about this property that you're looking at.
S5 (18:01):
Yeah. So it's an office property, um, in my area. Um,
it's fully rented out. The, uh, it's up for sale
right now. According to the listing website. Um, it's been
on the market for about 70 something days. The asking
price is approximately 450 grand. Um, that's the most that
(18:23):
I know about it. Uh, it's fully occupied, and it
looks well maintained and all that sense. I guess the
owner just wants to sell it at this point.
S1 (18:32):
Got it. Okay. Very good. Yeah. So obviously you've done well. Um,
and you said you really don't have a whole lot
of experience or any in being, uh, you know, invested
in real estate or being a landlord, is that right?
S5 (18:45):
Never. Yeah.
S1 (18:46):
Okay. All right. Very good. Well, you mentioned an SBA loan,
so let's start there. Um, you know, that isn't money
directly from the government. It's made available by a bank
or a credit union. But the SBA, the Small Business Administration,
guarantees a portion of the loan, usually up to 85%.
And that makes lenders more willing to lend, especially to
(19:06):
small business owners who might not otherwise qualify for traditional
commercial financing. There's two kinds of that are that are
relevant here. The SBA seven loan. That's the most common
that could be used for buying owner occupied real estate
or working capital or equipment or things like that. Terms
(19:26):
of up to 25 years for real estate, ten years
for equipment or working capital. And it's usually the prime
rate plus 2 or 3% above that. And then there's
another type of loan from the SBA specifically for buying
fixed assets like commercial real estate or large equipment. It's
half a bank loan and then half an SBA backed
(19:50):
loan through another type of company. And then you usually
have a down payment and it's long term fixed rate financing. Um,
you know, in terms of this property, uh, you know,
this fully rented office building, I think there's, you know,
kind of two directions. You could go here if you
plan to use, you know, at least 51% of it, uh,
(20:11):
for your own business, then it qualifies as owner occupied. Otherwise,
it's an investment property. And if it's fully rented and
you just want it as an investment, that's not going
to be SBA eligible. They only finance owner occupied properties.
And so you'd need a commercial investment loan, which typically
is going to require 25 to 30% down and it's
(20:33):
going to have a higher rate. But the property's rental
income and value are going to be, you know, significant
underwriting factors. Um, in terms of the collateral, uh, the
property itself is the main collateral, of course. And then
they may take a personal guarantee. Um, but sometimes they
require additional collateral like business assets or savings. So you're
going to need to be ready for appraisal and environmental reports, maybe, and,
(20:56):
you know, full financial documentation, a personal financial statement, that
kind of thing. So let me stop there and just
see what questions you have.
S5 (21:05):
Um, yeah. So I think that that's that's very helpful.
So you're saying that, um, for me to qualify for
the first option, the half you said half SBA and
then half, I guess a bank loan, I'd have to
occupy 51% of the building.
S1 (21:24):
Yeah. So are you looking at this as just a
pure investment play, or are you actually going to operate
a business out of part of this property.
S5 (21:31):
I am going to operate a business out of it
as well. I'm not sure if it's going to be 51%
of the buildings, but I am going to operate my
business out of it as well.
S1 (21:39):
Yeah. Got it. Okay. Yes. So it does my understanding
it doesn't need to be at least 51% of the property.
Otherwise it's deemed just a pure investment and then SBA
would not qualify. I know you had other questions. Stay there.
We'll get to that after the break. This is faith
and finance. We'll be right back. So glad to have
(22:05):
you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. Our
team is away today, so don't call in. But we
lined up some great questions in advance and we'll be
going to those here in just a moment. Let me
also remind you that the advice that I give each
day on this program is general in nature. We offer
principles and ideas that apply at a high level. They
(22:26):
are not personalized. So that's why you should always seek
professional financial advice. And if you'd like to find a
professional who shares your values, we of course, here at
Faith and Finance Live recommend the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation.
These are men and women who've met high standards, and
they've been trained to bring a biblical worldview of financial
decision making. You can find 1@faith.com. All right. Let's head
(22:50):
back to the phones. Uh, Tony called before the break
from Ohio. He's a 49, working full time. He's a
business owner. He's had some great success. He does have
a tax, um, burden that he's looking for, a way
to to lessen. He's in a a top tax bracket. Um,
he's also considering getting into real estate. And you had
asked about that 51% rule with regard to, you know,
(23:12):
if you're going into a real estate property, an investment property,
but you're also going to be there in terms of
being owner occupied. The SBA requires that business occupy 51%
of the property in order to qualify for that SBA
real estate loan. And so basically, it's designed to help
small businesses own real estate. They operate from not become
(23:36):
landlords or investors. So that's why, you know, they say
that 51% of the square footage has to be used
for that purpose to be owner occupied. And it's basically,
you know, you physically have to use 51% or more
of the total rentable space for your own operations, and
then you could rent out to other tenants the remaining 49%. Now,
(23:59):
I'm certainly not an expert on SBA loans. It might
be behoove you to get with somebody who is who
could help you just think through. Are there other avenues
or strategies you could use to acquire this property if
you're not planning to take that much? Um, but just
generally speaking, that needs to be something that's on your
radar because those issues are real. I know you had
(24:19):
a follow up question, Tony, related to a donor advised fund.
Go ahead with that.
S5 (24:25):
Yes. So, um, and I think you touched on it earlier.
So I have a, I have a significant tax bill. Um,
and I'm trying to see again also planned for my
giving next year. Yeah. Um, so I am looking to
contribute to a donor advised fund. But my main concern
the question is could this a significant amount, um, what
(24:45):
kind of. And I certainly want this to go to my,
my local church and charities, uh, that I really want
to contribute to. But again, I know you've indicated that
once you give it, it's giving. So my concern is
how much control do I actually have once I've given
it to in this case NCF given.
S1 (25:04):
Yeah. Well, it's a great question. I'm so glad you're
asking it because what a lot of people don't realize,
although the The Donor Advised fund is my favorite giving tool,
think of it like a charitable checking account. You can
put cash in it, you can put assets into it.
Business interest. It's a great place for you to, you know,
give appreciated assets before they're sold. Once it hits the account,
(25:29):
even while it's in the donor advised fund, you can
invest it while you're waiting to give it away. And
then you have advisory privileges, meaning you can recommend which
charities to support when and how much you can do
that in your name or anonymously. But you're hitting on
a key point and that is this once you contribute
(25:49):
to a donor advised fund, and this is how you
can get an immediate charitable contribution receipt for that gift
even before it's given away. Once you contribute, you've made
an irrevocable gift to the sponsoring charity, what's called the
donor advised fund sponsor. They own the funds. That's why
there's an immediate tax deduction. And then you retain, according
(26:12):
to the law what are called advisory privileges. And the
sponsor has to approve the grant, ensuring that the recipient
is a qualified 500 1C3. C3. But here's the key part.
And that it aligns with the sponsor's policies. And they
can determine what those policies are, which is precisely why
(26:33):
I'm a big advocate of you having a fund at
the National Christian Foundation, because that's why they exist. You know,
NCF is really there, and the main reason believers choose
the National Christian Foundation is because they're all about biblically
aligned giving. So they're absolutely going to approve grants only, uh,
(26:56):
you know, to 501 C3 organizations whose work doesn't conflict
with Christian values and make it easy for you to
give to your church and ministries and mission organizations. And
since it was founded back in the 70s by Larry
Burkett and Ron Blue and Terry Parker, it has not
had one ounce of mission drift in terms of what
(27:16):
it's for. And literally more than $20 billion has flowed through, uh,
NCF to more than 40,000 charities and ministries and churches.
And so I would say if you're choosing between, you know,
the big players out there like Fidelity Charitable or Schwab Charitable,
that's why I would always go with NCF. And it's
precisely for this reason that you're calling out Tony. And
(27:39):
that is, you can have confidence that you're never going
to be kind of stopped in your tracks when you,
you know, recommend or advise on a grant out to
a Christian ministry. Does that make sense?
S5 (27:52):
Yes it does. Thank you very much. Yeah, I think
that's it. I'm good.
S1 (27:55):
Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. Tony. By the way, folks,
if you'd like to open a donor advised fund with
the National Christian Foundation, it's quick and easy to do.
Just head to our website. Faith. Com again that stands
for National Christian foundation.com slash. You can open your giving
fund today. And by the way this is a great
(28:15):
time of year to do it. All right to Virginia
Maggie how can I help.
S6 (28:22):
I am calling because. Good morning. I'm calling because in 2020. Hi.
Good morning. I'm calling because in 2024, my husband and
I needed to move into an Ada condo. And sadly,
we traded our 2.25% mortgage rate on our home for
a 7% rate on the condo. And so I was
(28:42):
wondering two things. One, it seems like interest rates are
coming down. I was wondering if you had I know it's,
you know, guessing, but an idea like how low and
how they might go or when that might be. And two, importantly,
at what point is it worth it to refinance? Because
the 7% is really killing us.
S1 (29:02):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, and where are you at right now? Uh,
on your rate.
S6 (29:10):
7%.
S1 (29:11):
Okay. 7%. Uh, yeah. So you're going to want to
wait until. I mean, my general rule of thumb is
at least 1%, preferably 1.5% lower. So for you, that's
going to be, you know, five and a half to 6%
on interest rates. And you also, in addition to saving
1 to 1.5%, you really want to be able to
(29:33):
commit to staying in that property for at least five years.
And that's going to ensure that the cost of that refinance,
which can run, you know, 3% or more of the
mortgage balance, is going to be able to be recouped
through the interest savings. Because remember, when you start a
new loan over the majority of it's going to interest,
you want to save at least the expense that you
(29:55):
incurred for the refi or it's not worth it. You
might as well have just stuck with the the current, uh,
you know, interest rate that you have. Now, the question is,
when are we going to hit that? Well nobody knows.
I mean, we could look at some estimates. Um, you know,
I think the last I saw was that Fannie Mae, uh,
was projecting. You know, perhaps we're at 6.3 by the
(30:18):
end of 2025, and maybe just under 6% by the
end of 2026. Um, which is still above 5.5%, which
is my ideal 1.5% lower, but but under but greater
than 1% lower, which would, I think, put it in play. Uh,
there are others that are not as optimistic. Some think
that we'll still be hovering, you know, in the mid 60s.
(30:42):
So I think at this point the key is for
you just to wait it out, pay as much toward
principle as possible and keep watching those rates. Thanks for
your call, Maggie. God bless you. We'll be right back.
S7 (31:05):
This is our final segment of a faith and finance
live program that we previously recorded. Thanks so much for
being with us today, and we hope you'll stick around
and enjoy the rest of the program. Am.
S1 (31:16):
Uh, back to the phones. We go. Let's go out
to Michigan. Hi, Carol. Go ahead.
S8 (31:20):
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Yes, ma'am. I had
a question about. I had a question about independent living
after you turn a certain age. I'm 58 years old
right now. I'm on disability. I only get about $1,300
a month. And that's before Medicare is taken out. And
I'm able to work part time right now out of
my home. I guess what I'm wondering is, and I'm married,
(31:42):
wondering if something would happen to my husband or if
I was left alone. What would be the best option
for me? Obviously, I would probably sell my house, and
I believe I could wind up with maybe 200,000 or
so after taxes and realtor fees and whatnot, but I'm
wondering where would be the best place for me to go.
The steps would be, and how I would handle a
(32:03):
situation like that.
S1 (32:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great question and I'm
glad to hear you thinking about that. Now, you know,
we know that the data says that as men we
will predecease our wives. and I think, you know, so
often at least I hear from so many widows on
this program that, you know, find themselves after a husband
passes away, especially if he's been the one. And this
(32:25):
certainly isn't always the case. But if he's been the
one who's managed the financial affairs, a lot of times
widows will feel just have a lot of questions and feel,
you know, ill prepared to manage their finances moving forward.
And so I think leaning into that right now, Carol,
and having a plan to understand not only what assets
as the Lord entrusted to you, but kind of what
(32:46):
would your next steps be? I think the first thing
would be just to establish a reasonable budget to determine
what you have available to you. Did you say you're
both collecting Social Security right now?
S8 (32:58):
No, neither one of us are. I'm only 58. He's 61.
I get disability, disability, I got disability. Um, yeah. If
I ever wound up getting his Social Security, it would
be a little bit more than mine. Mine's 1300. It
would probably go up to maybe 2200, but that's another
nine years away for me.
S1 (33:16):
Yeah.
S8 (33:16):
Yeah.
S1 (33:17):
Okay. And is he continuing to work?
S8 (33:20):
Yes. Yeah. Okay.
S1 (33:22):
Yeah. And are you all putting money aside every month
toward retirement?
S8 (33:27):
It's really hard to do that. I hardly make anything.
And he doesn't make a lot. And I have a
lot of medical expenses, so it's almost impossible. And then
when we do, we need to use it for car
repairs and whatnot.
S1 (33:39):
Okay. And so other than the 200,000, you think you
could net from the house? What what other assets do
you have currently?
S8 (33:46):
I mean, that's pretty much that would be it. I
don't have any, like, retirement accounts. I mean, I took
my retirement out and I have well, actually, I had
30,000 in gold and silver, so I guess that would
be another asset.
S1 (33:59):
Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Well, here's the reality is, I mean,
you know, the key would be for you all to
wait as long as you can to take Social Security.
You know, and I think the key for him is
the longer he can work, the better. And the same.
You know, I know you're on disability, but I think
the extent to which you all can delay collecting Social Security,
(34:22):
even if he could wait all the way to age 70,
that would be ideal, because he could get his check
up 25% or thereabouts, higher than what he's scheduled to
get as at full retirement age, which would help because
if he's, you know, scheduled to get 1200 a month
at full retirement age, that would, you know, might take
that up to $2,750, which could be a pretty significant
(34:46):
game changer for you just to have what you need
to cover your bills. And you would get that as
survivor's benefits. And then obviously, if you sold the home,
you'd have the couple hundred thousand dollars. And, you know,
that could be converted to an income stream as well,
you know, which would be, you know, probably you could
pull 8000 a year or about $650 a month. So
(35:07):
if you put all those together, you know, that's uh,
650 a month. And then if you were to add
2700 from his Social Security, if he waited to 70,
that gives you 3300 a month. So that would give
you an option. I mean, if you ended up spending
those assets down because you needed some sort of care,
whether that's in-home care or full nursing care or something
(35:28):
in between, you know, then that's where Medicaid would kick
in and you could go to a medicaid approved, you know,
independent living or nursing home facility. You know, if you
needed care. And they would, you know, cover that once
your assets had been spent down. So I think the
key for you all is just to delay, as long
as you can keep your lifestyle at a minimum, try
(35:50):
to save when possible. Uh, I realize you have, you know,
a lot of expenses, including medical expenses, but, you know,
getting that Social Security up as high as possible and
staying out of debt or getting out of debt if
you have some debt now and then ultimately liquidating that,
that home, you know, would probably give you the ability
to at least either stay there and cover your bills
(36:11):
from Social Security or loan or sell the house. Use
that plus Social Security, you know, to live. And if
at some point you needed some additional care, you could
get that. Does that make sense?
S8 (36:23):
Yeah it does. And I was just curious to one
quick question. You had mentioned reverse mortgages before, I think,
on here. And you gave a number and it was
movement or something like that.
S1 (36:34):
Yeah. So movement is an underwriter of this program, and
they do specialize in the area of reverse mortgages. And
that could be an option as well where if you
wanted to stay there, essentially you could convert that to
an income stream and then stay there for the rest
of your life. As long as you pay the taxes
and the insurance, you'd never have a payment. And that
would be another way to boost your income. The website
(36:56):
is movement. Movement. Thank you for your call today, Carol.
We appreciate you being on the program. Let's go to Texas. Terri,
thanks for your patience. Go ahead.
S8 (37:09):
Hello.
S1 (37:10):
Hi, there. How can I help you?
S9 (37:12):
Uh. Two questions. Can you explain how a fixed annuity works?
And I have and tod on every asset that I own.
Do I need a will?
S1 (37:26):
Mhm. Yeah. Very good. Uh, so a fixed annuity is
an insurance product that provides guaranteed interest and predictable income.
That's why people buy them. If somebody buys them, uh,
you give an insurance company a lump sum or a
series of payments, you choose, and in return, they guarantee
(37:48):
a set rate of interest for, uh, you know, a
period of time, um, or guaranteed income for life. And
it's designed for safety and stability, not growth. The key
points are, I mean, you get modest growth, but that's
that's not why people tend to buy them, because you
can historically do better outside of an annuity product. But
(38:10):
somebody who wants to transfer that risk to an insurance
company and is happy with the rate of return and
then can eventually, you know, convert that to an income stream,
you know, that's usually why they buy them. Um, now
there's a deferred a fixed annuity that earns a guaranteed
rate for a term. There's an immediate fixed annuity where
(38:30):
you put a lump sum in, and they immediately just
start paying you an income for the rest of your life. Um,
or there's tax deferred growth where the earnings aren't taxed
until they're withdrawn. Now, the second part of your question
was related to your estate plan. You've got a transfer
on death for your investment accounts. You've got a payable
on death pod for your bank accounts and a lady
(38:54):
bird deed for your home. All avoid probate. That's great.
That's going to keep it out of probate, which is
time and expense, and automatically transfer the assets to your name. Beneficiaries.
I'll say yes. You need a will because that's going
to cover everything not already titled with beneficiaries. What is that?
Personal property, vehicles, digital assets, anything you've overlooked. Um, and
(39:20):
you'd also want to name an executor that can express
final wishes like charitable gifts or personal bequests. So although
I think you're well planned, and I like the fact
that you have all those things, a simple will is
still wise because there's going to be a few other
things that fall outside of that. And if you don't
want people kind of, you know, you know, trying to
(39:41):
figure out where you wanted them to go, uh, it's
helpful to have that will as the catch all. Is
that helpful?
S9 (39:48):
It is. I just want to make sure my bases
were covered. Everything. I don't imagine my kids wanting any
of the quote unquote personal items. All I hear about
these days is kids groaning about having to clean out
their parents houses.
S1 (40:03):
Yes. Well, you might be surprised. There may be some
things they want to have and hang on to, but
I think in either case it just, you know, it
makes things simpler because there's not a lot of questions
that they're having to nail down. Everything's been outlined. And
it's it's very simple and fairly cost effective. Uh, to do. Uh, also,
you did not mention a health care power of attorney
(40:25):
or a living will. Those two things would be helpful
if you don't have them. So you can name the
person and make specifically medically related decisions on your behalf.
So hopefully that helps you. Terry, thanks for your call today.
Lord bless you. Uh, we're going to stay in Texas
and talk to Jeff. Go ahead.
S10 (40:41):
I hear you talk about people's debt on here a
bit here and there, and I have some that I've
started accumulating and wanting to get your thoughts on it,
on what to do with it. I got, uh, got
about 12 K of credit card debt I've had for
a couple of years, and now I've got some, uh,
medical debt that's come up about ten k, and I'm
going to need to spend about five K fairly soon
(41:04):
on some home repair. Um, now I've also got a
$35,000 auto loan, but I'm not really concerned about that. Um,
maybe I should be, but I was just wondering, you know,
I've got, uh, um, some money in my house. You know,
it's a HELOC loan. The way to go or.
S1 (41:25):
Yeah, I would say. And unfortunately, I have just a
little bit of time here. I would say for the,
you know, home renovation, that that'd be the only place
I'd want the HELOC with the medical debt. I'd negotiate
with them directly. They're very willing to work with you
and set up a payment plan, the auto loan. I'd
leave that right there and not attach it to your house.
Just keep your lifestyle at a minimum and pay it
(41:45):
as quickly as you can. And then with the credit
card debt, I certainly wouldn't take unsecured debt and secure
it to your home. I'd use a debt management and
call Christian credit counselors or go online Christian credit counselors.org. So, uh,
that's the way I would handle that. I'd want to
keep as much of that off the house as possible,
with the exception of maybe the home improvement. Unfortunately, I'm
(42:05):
out of time, Jeff, but I appreciate your call today, sir.
Lord bless you folks here at the end of the year.
This is a really important time for us to hear
from you as a listener supported ministry. Good news. We
have some incredible folks that are matching every gift to
faith by between now and the end of the year,
every gift doubled up to 175,000 when you go to faith.
(42:27):
By the way, if you get up over $400, that'll
make you a partner. You'll get all of our resources,
our magazine and pro access to the Faith V app. Plus,
every gift qualifies you to get my new devotional, Our
Ultimate Treasure, early next year. Well, that's going to do
it for us today. Faith and Finance Live is a
partnership between Moody Radio and Faith V. Thank you to
my amazing broadcast team. I couldn't do this without them.
(42:50):
I hope you have a great rest of your day
and we'll see you next time on Faith and Finance live.
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