November 21, 2025 • 43 mins
Money: it’s one of the hardest things to surrender—and one of the clearest ways to trust God. When we give, we declare our dependence on God, rather than our bank accounts. On the next Faith & Finance Live, Dr. Art Rainer joins Rob West to explore how generosity becomes an act of trust that changes our hearts and deepens our faith. Then, it’s on to your calls. That’s Faith and Finance Live—biblical wisdom for your financial journey. That’s weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:08):
It's one of the hardest things to surrender and one
of the clearest ways to trust God. Hi, I'm Rob West.
Money can so easily capture our hearts, but when we give,
we're declaring our dependence on God, not our bank accounts. Today,
doctor Art Rayner joins us to explore how generosity becomes
an act of trust that changes our hearts and deepens
(00:30):
our faith. Then we'll take your calls at 800 525 7000.
This is faith in finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your
financial journey. Well, our guest today is my friend, doctor
Art Rayner, founder of the Institute for Christian Financial Health
and Christian Money Solutions. He's also the author of Money
(00:50):
in Light of Eternity What the Bible Says About Your
Financial Purpose, and a frequent contributor here on the program art.
Great to have you back, Rob.
S2 (00:59):
Robert is always an honor. Thanks for having me again.
S1 (01:01):
All right. We've been deeply influenced by the work of
Larry Burkett, who often said that every spending decision is
a spiritual decision. And as we frequently say on this program,
money issues are really hard issues. Wouldn't you agree with that?
S2 (01:15):
I would, I'm reminded of a couple of things when
you ask that question. First, Jesus said, where your treasure is,
there your heart will be also. The Bible makes it
clear money management reflects heart management. Second, the Bible is
obviously not silent on the topic of money. There are
over 2000 verses about it. So as believers, the question
is whether we trust what God says regarding his promises
(01:38):
and provision. And are we willing to surrender this area
of our lives to him?
S1 (01:43):
Mhm. That's a powerful idea, one we all need to consider. Art,
you've written often about how giving is really an act
of trust, a tangible expression of our faith in God's provision.
So let's dig into that a bit. You discuss several
promises God makes about giving, and the first is that
he promises he will provide.
S2 (02:02):
Yeah. Let's look at Malachi 310. It says, bring all
the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough
food in my temple. If you do, says the Lord
of heaven's armies, I will open the windows of heaven
for you. I will pour out a blessing so great
you won't have enough room to take it in. Try it.
Put me to the test. See, God doesn't tell us
(02:23):
to give and then leaves us hanging. No. He ties
a promise to our generosity. He promises to pour out
an abundance of blessings on us. And he tells us
to test him in this. To give him the opportunity
to show that he will make good on his promise. Now,
does this mean that giving generously to the church will
finally get you that new red Lamborghini that you've always
(02:46):
dreamed of?
S1 (02:47):
Right?
S2 (02:48):
Not necessarily. God's blessings can be financial and material, but
they can also be spiritual. Maybe God gives you the
contentment you have been chasing for years, the same contentment
you once sought from money by becoming part of something
far more significant than your own momentary life on earth.
S1 (03:07):
Yeah, that's a powerful invitation the Lord gives us. All right.
This next promise that you unpack is that God promises
he will multiply.
S2 (03:15):
Yeah, right. In John six, Jesus turns a small boy's
five loaves and two fish into enough to feed 5000
with 12 baskets full left over. Many of us can
relate to this boy. We look at our meager resources
and wonder what God could ever do with them in
the face of such great need. What difference can our
(03:37):
generosity make? John six shows us that God is a
God of multiplication. God will take whatever you give and
multiply your resources to accomplish his purposes. That is a
promise from God. But it takes trust.
S1 (03:51):
Yeah, that's exactly right. All right. I think we have
time for one more. I'd love for you to explain
the promise that God will enrich.
S2 (03:59):
We all enjoy getting a good return on our investments
or ROI. You like a good ROI. I like a
good ROI and so does God. Therefore, God promises to
enrich those who give. In second Corinthians 911, Paul writes
to those who trust God with their money, yes, you
will be enriched in every way, so that you can
(04:20):
always be generous. You see, God wants a good ROI.
He gives so that we can give. He blesses so
that we can bless others. God is looking for conduits
of generosity, channels through which his blessings can flow. He
is looking for men and women whom he can enrich
so that others may be blessed.
S1 (04:38):
Yeah, and that's our incredible opportunity as stewards of God's resources.
All right, so we've got just a few seconds left.
Tie a bow on this for us.
S2 (04:46):
Art generosity is an act of trust. It shifts our
hearts from reliance on ourselves and money to reliance on God.
Generous giving visibly demonstrates our trust in God and His
promises to provide. If you are a Christian, you already
have trusted God with your soul. It's time that you
trust him with your money.
S1 (05:04):
Wow, that's a powerful idea and a great place for
us to finish today. Alright, thanks for stopping by my friend.
S2 (05:10):
Thanks for having me.
S1 (05:11):
That's doctor Art Rayner, founder of the Institute for Christian
Financial Health and Christian Money Solutions. You can learn more
about his work at Christian Money Solutions.com. We'll be back
with your questions right after this.
S3 (05:34):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (05:58):
Well, great to have you with us today on faith
and finance Live. Looking forward to taking your calls and
questions today. That number is 800 525 7800 525 7000.
That's the number to call today. If you have something
going on in your financial life that you'd like to
talk about, we would love to chat about it with
you again. Lines are open right now 800 525 7000.
(06:22):
And we will dive into those here in just a moment. Well,
we finally have the long delayed September jobs report. And
on the surface it looks, well, a little puzzling. More
people found work, but the unemployment rate still ticked higher.
So how does that happen? Well, sometimes the labor market
sends mixed signals that actually point to something encouraging underneath.
(06:44):
Here's a few of the details. First, employers added about
119,000 jobs for the month. That was a solid rebound
and far better than economists expected. The unemployment rate did
rise to 4.4%, up from 4.3. But that happened because
more people started looking for work, not because layoffs increased.
(07:07):
So that is a good thing. Uh, next job growth
is still lower than earlier in the year. And prior
months were revised down. So the broader trend is certainly cooling.
But I wouldn't say it's collapsing by any means. The
biggest gains came in health care, retail and hospitality, while
manufacturing and government saw modest declines. The two underlying surveys
(07:30):
that make up the report one is households, one is employers.
They told slightly different stories, which isn't unusual. Economists generally
lean on the employer survey because it's larger and more consistent.
Bottom line is, well, the job market isn't running hot anymore,
but it's still showing steady resilience, that's for sure, and
(07:51):
we'll continue to track that along the way. The market
doing quite well today. The Dow closing about 500 points
higher and a big market rebound after a steep sell
off the S&P 500 up nearly 1%. The Nasdaq up
almost as much as well. Certainly we'll see what comes
(08:13):
in the the days and weeks ahead if this market
is going to continue. We've had great earnings reports. We've
had some pretty decent inflation readings, although still waiting for
that latest reading. And the big decision will be whether
we get another rate cut this year. All that will
be ahead potentially in December. We want to turn our
(08:34):
attention to your calls and questions today. The number to
call again 800 525 7000. We'd love to tackle those questions.
Let's dive in right now. We're going to begin in
Indiana today John. Go ahead.
S4 (08:47):
Thank you for taking my call and thanks for your ministry.
So my wife and I are going to go on
Medicare in the spring of 2026 when I retire. And
she's had a lot of health problems, so she needs
to be on it. But I've had no health problems
to speak of. I'm wondering about the wisdom of me
just saving those premiums and let her sign up and
pay them. But but I would just not sign up.
(09:09):
What I've signed up for part eight for part eight,
and maybe I need to take part B, but or
maybe I would go on advantage and try to save
a little bit of money. What are your thoughts on
that please?
S1 (09:20):
Yeah. Uh great question. And what did you say your
age was 71.
S4 (09:26):
Both of us.
S1 (09:27):
Okay. Got it. Yeah. So, um, you know, this is
this is helpful. And I think, um, you know, even
though they, you won't start Medicare until spring of 2026,
it's important to to plan ahead, uh, specifically with a
spouse who has ongoing health issues. Um, Medicare Part A.
(09:47):
Of course, most people don't pay a monthly premium for
part A because they paid into the system through payroll taxes,
so this one usually doesn't require saving. Part B. Yeah,
you do want to save for that. And of course
has the monthly premium. And since you're both 71 you'll
each uh oh the part B premium uh the advantage
(10:10):
part C or the Medi-Cal or the Medigap. I mean
it really is going to be the decision there. Um,
you know, advantage of course has the lower premiums. It's
going to combine the hospital doctor and drug coverage, but
the networks can be restrictive and the outer cost will vary,
especially for someone with health issues. The Medigap plus the
part D, that's of course, with the higher premiums, but
(10:33):
much better protection from big medical bills. So if you've
got chronic or significant health conditions, um, which clearly your
wife does, then that Medigap uh, plus the part D
drug plan is probably going to be the more predictable
and protective choice. And you know, you should start saving
(10:53):
for both of those premiums now. Um, you know, I
would say a good target for 2026, part B would
be around 200 a month. The Medigap would be somewhere
between 120 and 180 a month. It's going to vary
by state and age. And then part D is somewhere
between 20 and 40 a month. So we're talking 350
to $400 per month per person, or 7 to 850 combined,
(11:18):
if that makes sense.
S4 (11:21):
Yes. Is it for me though? Is it basically a
bet on whether I think I'm going to get, you know,
very sick in the future, very ill in the future?
S1 (11:29):
Yeah. Uh, exactly. And, you know, I think what it
what is your health status now? You're in good health.
S4 (11:37):
Very good health. Yeah. Minor, minor things, but very good health.
S1 (11:41):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, choosing between Medicare Advantage and Medigap
is a bit like deciding how much risk you want
to take on regarding future health needs. So, you know,
the advantage is more like a bet that you're going
to stay relatively healthy and you enjoy those lower premiums.
Medigap is like buying protection in case you do get sick.
So I think, you know, the question is for you,
(12:02):
do you want to pay less each month and take
the risk of higher costs later, or do you want
to pay more each month and protect against bigger bills
down the road? I would say if you're relatively healthy,
the Medicare Advantage is probably the way to go.
S4 (12:17):
Okay, once you sign up for a plan, you have
to stick with it permanently. Is that correct?
S1 (12:22):
You can switch, but there are limits. And so, you know,
you can leave Medicare Advantage during certain windows open enrollment.
And then Medicare Advantage has an open enrollment. But and
this is the key, you're going to have to go
through medical underwriting to get a medigap policy. So that
means the insurance company can ask health questions and charge more,
(12:44):
or even deny coverage. So I think that's the issue
you're running up against. If for some reason something came
up health wise, you know, that could work against you.
S4 (12:56):
Okay, I hear advantage is somewhat managed by the insurance company,
and so you may be restricted on who you can
see and what they decide to treat. Is that is
that correct?
S1 (13:07):
Yeah, that's definitely right. So you are going to be
more limited in the networks and the approvals with Medicare
Advantage for sure.
S4 (13:17):
Okay. That helps. And by the way I just became
a customer, a client of Shumaker Financial with Cleo Holder
here in Newberg, Indiana.
S1 (13:25):
Oh that's incredible.
S4 (13:27):
Yeah I picked that up from your from your radio show.
I'd heard about them for years and I finally signed up, so.
S1 (13:32):
Oh that's excellent. Well, I know, Jim, the principle there
real well know Cleo. They're they're wonderful men of God. And, uh,
are going to serve you really well. I'm confident of that.
S4 (13:44):
Absolutely. Thank you for your your ministry. Take care.
S1 (13:46):
Absolutely, John. Lord bless you, my friend. Thanks for calling today. Well, folks,
we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, uh,
we will continue to tackle your financial questions. We'll talk
to Greg in Ohio. We'll also head out to Texas
and talk to Molly as well. Uh, we've got room
for you. If you have a financial question, call right now.
Here's the number 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
(14:12):
We'll take a quick break and then back with much
more just around the corner. By the way, if you
want to find a certified Kingdom advisor in your area,
what we just spoke about a moment ago, just head
to find a seeker. We'll be right back. Hey, thanks
(14:34):
for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live here
on Moody Radio. Listen as we head toward year end.
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(14:56):
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(15:16):
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(15:39):
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All right. We're taking your phone calls today. We do
have a few lines open at 800 525 7000. Let's
(16:01):
go to Ohio. Greg. Go ahead.
S5 (16:05):
Uh, yes. I was, um, a question about refinancing. Um,
I want to refinance my home when it's when it's
beneficial to me. Um, I bought the house six months ago,
and I have two years. The bank has offered me, um, uh,
free fees, um, to refinance within the first two years
of the mortgage. Um, and with the interest rates beginning
(16:27):
to drop a little bit, um, and may drop some
more over the next year, how much should it drop
before it makes sense to refinance?
S1 (16:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. Uh, normally we would say,
you know, at least 1%, I think preferably 1.5%, uh,
decline before you would refinance. Uh, and you're going to
want to make sure that you stay in the home,
you know, for at least five years. Beyond that, uh, now,
(16:56):
what changes that slightly is the idea that the bank
is offering no fees if you refinance within two years.
And the reason that changes things is, you know, with
no closing costs, you really don't need that full 1%
drop to make it worthwhile. So I would say, you know,
if you can get down half a point to even
(17:17):
three quarters of a point with no fees, it's probably
worth doing, you know, so if at at 6.6%, if
you could get in the, the mid 5% range, even
in high 5% range, that's meaningful savings. And because there's
no closing costs, you don't need to, quote, earn anything back.
(17:38):
So even a smaller rate drop can save money. And
then obviously, once you get beyond what the bank is offering,
if that's truly a fee free scenario, you could look
to refinance down the road once you save another point
to a point and a half. Although you know it
may be a while before we see that. So I think, uh,
(17:58):
you know, with the no cost offer, uh, I'd be
looking for at least a half a point or more.
S5 (18:05):
Okay, great. Well, thank you very much.
S1 (18:08):
All right. Thanks for your call. Lord bless you. Uh.
Let's see. To Texas. Molly, how can I help?
S6 (18:14):
Hi, Rob. First of all, I want to say thank
you for your ministry. It has definitely helped me as
I've grown and continue to grow and become a better
steward over God's finances or resources. So I have about
$50,000 in debt and I want to begin saving. I
have not been so great with managing money. I've been
(18:35):
living outside of my means, and I'm coming to a
point where I no longer want to do that and
want to know what's the best step to take? Do
I throw all my money towards debt snowball, or do
I try to put away money for the future and
do both?
S1 (18:51):
Yeah. Well, Molly, I love what you're talking about here, that,
you know, you've kind of come to the end of
yourself and lists and said, listen, this is not working.
And I want to honor the Lord with what he's
entrusted to me. And despite the mistakes I've made in
the past. And we could all say that, uh, you know,
from this point forward, I want to be that faithful
steward that God has called me to be. And I'm
(19:12):
delighted that we could play a very small part in
that here on this program each day. Uh, here's what
I'd love to do. You know, I think you getting
with our friends at Christian Credit Counselors would be great,
because we could get that the interest rates down for
the cards we put in the program, they would be
temporarily closed. You couldn't use them anymore. Um, but with
the combination of the reduction in interest rate and then
(19:34):
that level monthly payment, which is probably going to be
around 3%. So on 50,000, I mean, that could be
1500 a month, maybe a little less. But I think
the key is let's really dial in your spending and
try to get that, you know, coming down much quicker.
The good news is on a credit counseling program with
Christian credit counselors, on average, you'll pay it off 80%
(19:57):
faster just because you'll have that level payment and the
much lower interest rate. So a lot more of your
payment every month is going toward principal versus what you
have right now. Um, the other thing I'd like to do, Molly,
just because I'm hearing, you know, in your voice that
you're committed to this. Um, I'd love to cover the
cost to give you access to a certified Christian financial counselor.
(20:20):
So this is, uh, someone who's been trained. And really,
their ministry is helping God's people develop a spending plan,
set up a, you know, a debt repayment plan. And
I think the combination of somebody who's helping you put
the plan together and providing some prayer and accountability for
you alongside the credit counseling program might be the key.
(20:41):
You know, on top of your desire to really honor
the Lord, to getting you moving in the right direction here,
would that be something you'd want to take advantage of?
S6 (20:50):
Definitely. Thank you.
S1 (20:52):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we'll pay for the cost of that.
We'll cover the first several sessions of you meeting with
the the counselor, and that person will walk alongside you and,
you know, perhaps give you a fresh look at your budget,
help you think about maybe anything you're missing there and
then also, you know, help you get transitioned over to
Christian credit counselors. If that's what you decide to do.
(21:13):
You can do this. I believe you can. And I
think once you get on the other side of this,
you're going to be just so grateful to the Lord
for the freedom you're going to have as this burden
is lifted and be able to use money truly, as
a tool to accomplish God's purposes, which is the way
he designed it. So you stay on the line, Molly.
We'll get your information. We'll get you connected to a
(21:34):
certified Christian financial counselor. And then if you want to
go ahead and reach out to Christian credit counselors, they
can start evaluating your creditors and what those new reduced
interest rates will be. So you stay on the line.
The only thing I'll ask of you is when you
get on the other side of this, call me back.
I want to hear that. That testimony. Lord bless you.
(21:55):
We'll be right back on faith and finance live. Great
to have you with us today on Faith and finance live.
I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today.
That number to call 800 525 7000. Again that's 800
(22:17):
525 7000. Hey, before we head back to the phones,
let me remind you, it is National Collection Week until
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a great time to drop off your filled shoe box. Uh,
we want to say thanks for sharing the hope and
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(22:37):
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(22:59):
Also the drop off site location in your area. There's
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(23:20):
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Click the Operation Christmas Child banner, and it will answer
all of your questions. All right, let's head back to
the phones. Akron, Ohio. Brian. Go ahead.
S4 (23:34):
Hi, Rob.
S7 (23:34):
This is Brian. Thanks for your expertise. Appreciate it.
S1 (23:37):
Absolutely. Thank you.
S7 (23:39):
Um, I have an annuity that's going to mature in
about a year or two. I placed it with a
bank for five years, and I'm wondering what to do
with it after it matures, or what my options might be.
S1 (23:55):
Okay. Yeah, that's a great question. So when annuity matures
you've got several options Brian. And the right one really
depends on your goals for both income and safety as
well as growth. So with about 150,000 coming out and
if you're debt free, uh, you know, you're in a
(24:15):
great position. And I think the first option would be
to take the money as a lump sum where you
simply withdraw the full value. Now, if it's in what's
called a non-qualified annuity, then any growth will be taxable
as ordinary income. If it's a qualified annuity pre-tax, then
the whole withdrawal is taxable. But you'd want to roll
(24:38):
it to either another annuity or to an IRA. And
that would keep it in a tax deferred environment. Um
you know obviously you could always annuitize it as well,
which means converting it to a lifetime income stream, which
gives you the predictable income in retirement. But my preference generally, and,
(24:59):
you know, it's wise to do some planning if there's,
you know, lots of different issues and you have other
assets to consider. But my preference typically is for you
to roll it out either into a taxable account if
it's a non-qualified annuity or into an IRA, if it's
a qualified annuity, and then you have access to the
full amount at that point. And then you'd probably want
(25:22):
to either, you know, move it to an advisor you've
already got a relationship with, or hire an advisor to
begin managing it for you based on your goals and objectives.
But those would be your options. What do you kind
of leaning toward?
S7 (25:36):
The, um, all the money's all the money that was
put in there originally was from a previous IRA. Okay, yeah.
So it's probably a, you know, all that would be taxed.
So it sounds like I'm going to maybe roll that
in either into another annuity or an IRA.
S1 (25:56):
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean those are really
your options. And you know, if you were to put
it into another annuity, you'd have to choose, okay, do
I want a fixed annuity for guaranteed growth. Do I want, uh,
you know, an indexed annuity where you've got some upside
with no market losses or what's called a deferred income annuity?
I mean, the downside to the, you know, going with
(26:18):
another annuity is you're locking up the money. So you're
going to have surrender periods and you can't get to it. Secondly,
because you're kind of locking yourself in at a lower
rate of return, there is some inflation risk there in that, although,
you know, you're getting the guarantees and a more conservative
approach without the risk of the losses from the market. Um,
(26:39):
you know, you do have a lesser return than you
could get with a properly diversified stock and bond portfolio.
And so, you know, with, with people living longer, I mean,
once you hit 65, if you're in good health, it's
kind of a a coin toss in terms a coin
toss in terms of whether or not you'll live into
your 90s. I mean, you very well likely could live
well into your 90s. And then we have longevity risk,
(27:02):
which is where, you know, a lot of times getting
it out of the annuity and have a little bit more,
you know, potential for return. But with the downside possibility
as well, you know, is where most people end up, um,
you know, unless you're just looking for that safety and
peace of mind and, you know, then the annuity may
be the right thing for you.
S7 (27:22):
Well, that's why I took it out of the market.
Because the group that I had it with before, which
will be unnamed, um, it did not seem like they
were doing anything with it as far as a growth potential. Sure.
It seemed like it just leveled off and stayed there forever.
(27:44):
And I was not real happy. And I thought, well,
this would be better than what they're doing.
S1 (27:53):
Yeah. And I think, you know, the key there is
we don't want to get into a binary trap that
the old advisor or an annuity, one or the other.
I mean, what about that third option? And I think
that's where if you are going to go outside of
another annuity product, which would typically be my approach, unless
somebody is just, you know, completely risk averse, then I
would say, you know, I'd interview 2 or 3 certified
(28:15):
Kingdom advisors there in Akron, see if you can find
the one that's the better fit for you. And obviously,
as a part of that interview process you're talking about, okay,
what would the investment strategy look like where, you know,
what have other clients seen who have had a similar
strategy for me? Um, but, you know, that's going to
give you ultimate flexibility, the potential for better returns. But
(28:38):
at the end of the day, it's ultimately about that
advisor and those investments that are being selected for you.
S7 (28:44):
Okay, great.
S1 (28:45):
Yeah. Uh, if you want to find a K to. Yeah,
if you want to find somebody there in Ohio, Brian,
I would just head to find a com and you
could do a zip code search and, uh, connect with
a few of the folks there in that area. So, uh,
we appreciate your call today. Thanks for being on the program.
Lord bless you. Uh, let's, uh, stay in Ohio. CJ,
(29:05):
how can I help?
S8 (29:07):
Oh, yes. Hi. Thank you for your ministry.
S1 (29:09):
Sure. Thank you.
S8 (29:11):
Yeah. Yes. But I was wondering if you have a
supplemental Medigap policy. Um, do you need Medicare A and B,
or do you just need a.
S1 (29:24):
No to have the Medigap the supplemental? You have to
have both A and B. So that's how Medigap works.
It fills in the gaps in original Medicare. And original
Medicare is A plus B, so A covers the hospital care,
B covers the doctor's visits and outpatient care. And then
Medigap covers the deductibles, the co-pays, the coinsurance that's left
(29:48):
over from A and B. If you drop B, your
Medigap plan can't be used because there's nothing for it
to supplement. So, uh, you know, that would be the
way you would need to go on that.
S8 (30:00):
Okay, well, that answers my question because I didn't know
if I needed both or not.
S1 (30:05):
Okay. Excellent.
S8 (30:06):
I need both. Okay. Thank you so much.
S1 (30:08):
You're welcome. I'm glad we could clear it up. Thanks
for your call today. Well, folks, we've covered a lot
of ground today, but we still have a whole nother
segment to go, talk to Nancy in Ohio. Here in
just a moment. She's wanting to know about taking Social
Security and that limit on the amount she can earn
after doing so. But if you have a financial question today,
we probably got room for 1 to 2 more questions
(30:31):
in addition to those holding. So you could call right
now the number 800 525 7000. Again that's 800 525 7000.
We'll take a quick break and then come back with
much more. Here's our goal to be an encouragement to you,
to point you back to God's Word and help you
live as a wise and faithful steward. That's our goal
(30:51):
each afternoon on this program. Thanks for being with us.
More to come right after this. Well, I'm glad you've
been with us today here on Faith and Finance Live.
Maybe you're just tuning in. This program each day is
to help you see God as your ultimate treasure and
(31:13):
manage money as a tool, a good gift from God
to be used to accomplish his purposes. We're taking your
calls and questions today. We'll get to as many as
we can here in this final segment, let's head to Ohio. Nancy,
how can I help?
S9 (31:27):
Yes. How are you? Um, I have the chance to
retire from my current job and get a pension next.
Next year in January, I'll be 65 and I qualify
for normal retirement and a pension. But I am planning
to work until 67. I'm good health, and I'd like
to just continue. Um, I'm debating on if I want
to take Social Security at 65, or if I should
(31:49):
wait till 67. The question is, is I keep hearing
from people that that first year that you retire, there's
some type of a waiver or something where you can
make more than that Social Security limit of like 24,000. Um,
so that's what I wanted to ask you. Is that
a thing? Because I looked on the website and I
couldn't find anything about that.
S1 (32:08):
Yeah. Uh, it's a great question. And it's not the
first year it's, uh, really all the way up until
you reach full retirement age. So under full retirement age,
you can earn up to $23,400. That's the 2025 limit.
(32:28):
When you go above that, they're going to reduce your
benefit by a dollar for every $2 you earn above
the limit. 23,400. Now, the year in which you reach
full retirement age, the earnings limit goes up pretty dramatically.
So let's say you reached full retirement age in 2025.
(32:49):
Then you would jump up from 23,400 this year. That
higher number for the year you turn up full retirement
age is 62,160. So the years prior to the year
you turned full retirement age 23,400, the year you turn
62,001 60. Um, that reduction though, and this is an
(33:13):
important distinction, is only temporary. And here's what I mean. Yes,
they're going to reduce your benefit by $1 for every
$2 you go over, but you'll eventually get it back
in the form of a higher check. Now they're not
going to give it to you all at once. They're
going to increase your check beyond what you would have
normally received and give you a little bit extra each
(33:34):
month and then over, probably as much as a ten
year period. They will pay you back for every dollar
they withheld until you're made whole. Um, that's different than
the permanent reduction you get by taking it early. Um,
that's just paying you back for the amount they withheld,
only related to the amount, you know, by going over
(33:56):
the earnings limit. Does that make sense? I know that
gets confusing.
S9 (33:59):
Yes, it makes perfect sense. Now let me ask you,
does my pension count toward that income. Maximum of 23.5.
S1 (34:07):
Uh, yeah. So so what would you be earning? Give
me your income sources.
S9 (34:12):
I would be getting a pension. It would be about
3000 from one company, and then I get another pension
from an old company about 700.
S1 (34:19):
Um, okay.
S9 (34:20):
But it's all pre-tax.
S1 (34:22):
Yeah, it does not. So what they count is what's
called earned income. So that would be wages from a
job and self-employment income. It does not count pensions, IRA withdrawals,
annuity payments, investment income things like that. That is not
earned income and therefore is not applied to this limit.
S9 (34:42):
This is wonderful information. Thank you. I knew I could
trust you versus these other people telling me weird things.
S10 (34:48):
It's like I need to call Rob.
S1 (34:50):
I'm so glad you did, Nancy. Call any time. I'd
be delighted to help with anything I can. So Lord
bless you. Have a great weekend and happy Thanksgiving to
you in advance. Uh, we'll go to Indiana next. Christine.
Go ahead.
S8 (35:04):
Yes. Thank you. Rob, I'm so, so.
S6 (35:06):
Grateful for your ministry. Very grateful. Okay.
S8 (35:09):
If I use the terms which you will probably understand
are MDS 500 and 1C3, you probably know what those are, right?
S1 (35:17):
I do.
S10 (35:17):
Yes. Okay, good.
S8 (35:19):
I had a struggle with talking to people who answered
the phone, but that's okay. Okay, so I turned 73
in August. I'm a retired federal employee. I've been retired
for two years, since I'm 73 now from my thrift
savings plan. Like a 401 K. I have to take
a required minimum distribution. I'm going to round it off
with about 10,000. About 10,000. I was hoping, but now
(35:42):
I'm finding out I'm wrong. I was hoping to take
eight of the ten and roll it over to an IRA,
and then have the IRA custodian then distribute that to
like a church and some ministries to a 500 1C3
so I can avoid taxes. That's what I was hoping
I could do. But TSP is telling me, no, you
can't do that. You can't roll over an RMD to
(36:04):
IRA and then have that RA custodian distributed to 501 C3.
I have to take the whole. It's actually about 9500.
You have to take the whole amount and then, um,
pay taxes on it. Federal and state taxes. Is that right?
S10 (36:18):
Do you know?
S1 (36:19):
Yeah, I do know. Yeah. So are you looking at
rolling the entire TSP over to an IRA or just
a part of it?
S8 (36:27):
No, no, just just just that RMD only there's a
lot more in there than the 10,000. Just of the
money I have in my TSP. They look at your
age and divided by the balance of 1231 last year.
And then they come up with you get a statement
showing how much that RMD is at the first of
the year 2025, and it showed about $9,500. I was
gonna keep a little myself. Just go ahead and take
(36:49):
the 2000 directly, pay the taxes on that. But that
other eight grand, the 8000 I was wanting to give
to charities like church and ministries.
S1 (36:57):
Now, the challenge is the IRS is pretty strict on this.
So you can't roll over an RMD to an IRA. Um, It.
You have to. You would have to roll the TSP
over to the IRA. Um, and then do the QCD.
You can't just roll the RMD to an IRA to
(37:19):
do a QCD. If the IRS determines that the only
reason you did the rollover into the IRA was to
then turn around and do the QCD, they're not going
to let you do that. So they would want you
to roll the rest of the TSP into the IRA.
And then starting the next year, you could begin taking
(37:39):
your RMD from the IRA. IRA using the qualified charitable distribution.
Does that make sense?
S8 (37:45):
Okay. The last part you said that because she was
saying if I even rolled over the whole thing, let's
just say it's 300,000. Um, 9500 of that. Um, I
can't rollover into an IRA this year, but I did
not know that. So I guess if I move the
whole TSP over in 2026 to an IRA, then going forward,
(38:06):
those required minimum distributions. I can have the IRA custodian
then distribute that to different 500 and 1C3.
S1 (38:12):
That's exactly right. Yeah. Once the money is in the
IRA moving forward, then all of your RMDs could go
to ministry. You'd satisfy the required minimum for the year and,
you know, never pay tax on the money because it's
going straight to the ministry.
S8 (38:28):
Right. The negative is that TSP is doing so good. Um,
is it possible I could get an IRA that's doing
as good as that? It is really doing good.
S1 (38:36):
Yeah. You know, it's amazing how the Thrift Savings plan,
the performance has really been stellar over the years, and
I love that the investment options are fairly limited. So
it makes it kind of simple to pick, you know,
do I want the the I or the C or
the S or the G. Uh, even those life cycle
funds and the performance has been great. Can you get
that performance? Well, absolutely. Because right now you have a
(38:59):
very limited menu. As soon as you get to the IRA,
you basically have an unlimited number of investment options. The
downside is you have an unlimited number of investment options.
So somebody has to choose the investments. So that's where
you know, whereas you can typically do it yourself in
the TSP because they've made it so simple. If you
roll it to the IRA, I would encourage you, especially
(39:20):
with a significant sum of money like you have. I'd
encourage you to get an advisor to manage it for
you in that IRA, but you will have the benefit
from that point forward of doing the qualified charitable distribution.
S8 (39:32):
Right now, when you see an advisor, an advisor within
like fidelity or something, or an advisor outside of that.
S1 (39:38):
Yeah. I mean, advisors, depending on where you landed, the
advisor may use Fidelity or Schwab as the custodian. But
I'm talking about an investment advisor that would take over
discretion of managing the money for you, picking the investments.
And I would, uh, choose a certified Kingdom advisor. So
what I'd do is I'd go to our website, find
a com, put in your zip code and find, you know,
(40:02):
a list of certified Kingdom advisors in Indiana, an interview
2 or 3 and find the one that you feel
like is the best fit.
S8 (40:09):
Right. So I guess with that, you'd have to kind
of do like a, an analysis like say, okay, I'm losing,
I don't know, $1,500 in taxes, but what is the
going to cost me? What is? Maybe I won't get
quite as good returns in the IRA. I guess that's
the homework I have to do, right?
S1 (40:27):
Well, and I wouldn't say that. I mean, you're not
going to know what the returns are until you know. Right?
So there's no way to predict what it's going to be.
You could look at the advisors, you know, uh, averages
or ask the advisor for somebody who was in my
similar strategy over the last 12, 24 months, five years.
How have they done? Um, but there's no way to
know how it's going to do. There's also no way
(40:49):
to know how the TSP is going to perform in
the future. And the fees don't concern me again, you've
spent your whole life amassing this wealth, so having an
advisor that's managing it for you, picking the The investments,
you know, I think is really the way to go.
But yeah, there is a cost to it. And you
do have to to weigh the cost of it versus
the savings on the RMD. But again, just assuming that
(41:13):
the TSP is automatically going to perform as well in
the future as it has to this point. You know,
I don't know that you could trust that as much as,
you know, whether or not an advisor is going to
do better or worse.
S8 (41:24):
You're right, because I'm in one of those life cycles,
and as I get older and older, that's going to
become more conservative.
S10 (41:30):
More it will.
S1 (41:31):
Yeah. Automatically.
S8 (41:32):
That'll be that'll make it. That'll make it a little
bit less. And also too as the money as the
good thing about your TSP or K or whatever IRA doing.
Well that increases your RMD which increases your taxes. So
um yeah, I think so, but I can't I think
I cannot do it now this year it's too late.
S10 (41:50):
But that's right. In the future you could 26 could I.
S1 (41:55):
Think if you get it in there in 2026, you
would probably do it out of there the following year
as a QCD. I talked to your CPA about the
timing on that. I appreciate your call. Christine. Quickly to Tennessee. Patrice,
I understand you sold a piece of rental property. Has
that sale already gone through?
S11 (42:14):
It has not closed yet. It will close November 8th.
S1 (42:17):
Okay. Yeah, I think you're, uh. Well, November. What?
S11 (42:22):
Uh. Hey, I'm. I'm sorry. December 8th.
S1 (42:24):
Okay. Yeah. Unfortunately, you would need to put that property
in the donor advised fund before it sells in order
to get that tax benefit. And I think time is
too short. Reach out to our friends at, uh, National
Christian Foundation, and they can tell you all the details.
Just go to faith. Sorry, I only had a moment there,
but I wanted to give you that answer before I
(42:46):
was done today. That's Faith by NC. Big thanks to Jim, Lisa,
Josh and Dan. Faith and Finance lives a partnership between
Moody Radio and Faith five. We'll see you next week.
It's one of the hardest things to surrender and one
of the clearest ways to trust God. Hi, I'm Rob West.
Money can so easily capture our hearts, but when we give,
we're declaring our dependence on God, not our bank accounts. Today,
doctor Art Rayner joins us to explore how generosity becomes
an act of trust that changes our hearts and deepens
(00:30):
our faith. Then we'll take your calls at 800 525 7000.
This is faith in finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your
financial journey. Well, our guest today is my friend, doctor
Art Rayner, founder of the Institute for Christian Financial Health
and Christian Money Solutions. He's also the author of Money
(00:50):
in Light of Eternity What the Bible Says About Your
Financial Purpose, and a frequent contributor here on the program art.
Great to have you back, Rob.
S2 (00:59):
Robert is always an honor. Thanks for having me again.
S1 (01:01):
All right. We've been deeply influenced by the work of
Larry Burkett, who often said that every spending decision is
a spiritual decision. And as we frequently say on this program,
money issues are really hard issues. Wouldn't you agree with that?
S2 (01:15):
I would, I'm reminded of a couple of things when
you ask that question. First, Jesus said, where your treasure is,
there your heart will be also. The Bible makes it
clear money management reflects heart management. Second, the Bible is
obviously not silent on the topic of money. There are
over 2000 verses about it. So as believers, the question
is whether we trust what God says regarding his promises
(01:38):
and provision. And are we willing to surrender this area
of our lives to him?
S1 (01:43):
Mhm. That's a powerful idea, one we all need to consider. Art,
you've written often about how giving is really an act
of trust, a tangible expression of our faith in God's provision.
So let's dig into that a bit. You discuss several
promises God makes about giving, and the first is that
he promises he will provide.
S2 (02:02):
Yeah. Let's look at Malachi 310. It says, bring all
the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough
food in my temple. If you do, says the Lord
of heaven's armies, I will open the windows of heaven
for you. I will pour out a blessing so great
you won't have enough room to take it in. Try it.
Put me to the test. See, God doesn't tell us
(02:23):
to give and then leaves us hanging. No. He ties
a promise to our generosity. He promises to pour out
an abundance of blessings on us. And he tells us
to test him in this. To give him the opportunity
to show that he will make good on his promise. Now,
does this mean that giving generously to the church will
finally get you that new red Lamborghini that you've always
(02:46):
dreamed of?
S1 (02:47):
Right?
S2 (02:48):
Not necessarily. God's blessings can be financial and material, but
they can also be spiritual. Maybe God gives you the
contentment you have been chasing for years, the same contentment
you once sought from money by becoming part of something
far more significant than your own momentary life on earth.
S1 (03:07):
Yeah, that's a powerful invitation the Lord gives us. All right.
This next promise that you unpack is that God promises
he will multiply.
S2 (03:15):
Yeah, right. In John six, Jesus turns a small boy's
five loaves and two fish into enough to feed 5000
with 12 baskets full left over. Many of us can
relate to this boy. We look at our meager resources
and wonder what God could ever do with them in
the face of such great need. What difference can our
(03:37):
generosity make? John six shows us that God is a
God of multiplication. God will take whatever you give and
multiply your resources to accomplish his purposes. That is a
promise from God. But it takes trust.
S1 (03:51):
Yeah, that's exactly right. All right. I think we have
time for one more. I'd love for you to explain
the promise that God will enrich.
S2 (03:59):
We all enjoy getting a good return on our investments
or ROI. You like a good ROI. I like a
good ROI and so does God. Therefore, God promises to
enrich those who give. In second Corinthians 911, Paul writes
to those who trust God with their money, yes, you
will be enriched in every way, so that you can
(04:20):
always be generous. You see, God wants a good ROI.
He gives so that we can give. He blesses so
that we can bless others. God is looking for conduits
of generosity, channels through which his blessings can flow. He
is looking for men and women whom he can enrich
so that others may be blessed.
S1 (04:38):
Yeah, and that's our incredible opportunity as stewards of God's resources.
All right, so we've got just a few seconds left.
Tie a bow on this for us.
S2 (04:46):
Art generosity is an act of trust. It shifts our
hearts from reliance on ourselves and money to reliance on God.
Generous giving visibly demonstrates our trust in God and His
promises to provide. If you are a Christian, you already
have trusted God with your soul. It's time that you
trust him with your money.
S1 (05:04):
Wow, that's a powerful idea and a great place for
us to finish today. Alright, thanks for stopping by my friend.
S2 (05:10):
Thanks for having me.
S1 (05:11):
That's doctor Art Rayner, founder of the Institute for Christian
Financial Health and Christian Money Solutions. You can learn more
about his work at Christian Money Solutions.com. We'll be back
with your questions right after this.
S3 (05:34):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (05:58):
Well, great to have you with us today on faith
and finance Live. Looking forward to taking your calls and
questions today. That number is 800 525 7800 525 7000.
That's the number to call today. If you have something
going on in your financial life that you'd like to
talk about, we would love to chat about it with
you again. Lines are open right now 800 525 7000.
(06:22):
And we will dive into those here in just a moment. Well,
we finally have the long delayed September jobs report. And
on the surface it looks, well, a little puzzling. More
people found work, but the unemployment rate still ticked higher.
So how does that happen? Well, sometimes the labor market
sends mixed signals that actually point to something encouraging underneath.
(06:44):
Here's a few of the details. First, employers added about
119,000 jobs for the month. That was a solid rebound
and far better than economists expected. The unemployment rate did
rise to 4.4%, up from 4.3. But that happened because
more people started looking for work, not because layoffs increased.
(07:07):
So that is a good thing. Uh, next job growth
is still lower than earlier in the year. And prior
months were revised down. So the broader trend is certainly cooling.
But I wouldn't say it's collapsing by any means. The
biggest gains came in health care, retail and hospitality, while
manufacturing and government saw modest declines. The two underlying surveys
(07:30):
that make up the report one is households, one is employers.
They told slightly different stories, which isn't unusual. Economists generally
lean on the employer survey because it's larger and more consistent.
Bottom line is, well, the job market isn't running hot anymore,
but it's still showing steady resilience, that's for sure, and
(07:51):
we'll continue to track that along the way. The market
doing quite well today. The Dow closing about 500 points
higher and a big market rebound after a steep sell
off the S&P 500 up nearly 1%. The Nasdaq up
almost as much as well. Certainly we'll see what comes
(08:13):
in the the days and weeks ahead if this market
is going to continue. We've had great earnings reports. We've
had some pretty decent inflation readings, although still waiting for
that latest reading. And the big decision will be whether
we get another rate cut this year. All that will
be ahead potentially in December. We want to turn our
(08:34):
attention to your calls and questions today. The number to
call again 800 525 7000. We'd love to tackle those questions.
Let's dive in right now. We're going to begin in
Indiana today John. Go ahead.
S4 (08:47):
Thank you for taking my call and thanks for your ministry.
So my wife and I are going to go on
Medicare in the spring of 2026 when I retire. And
she's had a lot of health problems, so she needs
to be on it. But I've had no health problems
to speak of. I'm wondering about the wisdom of me
just saving those premiums and let her sign up and
pay them. But but I would just not sign up.
(09:09):
What I've signed up for part eight for part eight,
and maybe I need to take part B, but or
maybe I would go on advantage and try to save
a little bit of money. What are your thoughts on
that please?
S1 (09:20):
Yeah. Uh great question. And what did you say your
age was 71.
S4 (09:26):
Both of us.
S1 (09:27):
Okay. Got it. Yeah. So, um, you know, this is
this is helpful. And I think, um, you know, even
though they, you won't start Medicare until spring of 2026,
it's important to to plan ahead, uh, specifically with a
spouse who has ongoing health issues. Um, Medicare Part A.
(09:47):
Of course, most people don't pay a monthly premium for
part A because they paid into the system through payroll taxes,
so this one usually doesn't require saving. Part B. Yeah,
you do want to save for that. And of course
has the monthly premium. And since you're both 71 you'll
each uh oh the part B premium uh the advantage
(10:10):
part C or the Medi-Cal or the Medigap. I mean
it really is going to be the decision there. Um,
you know, advantage of course has the lower premiums. It's
going to combine the hospital doctor and drug coverage, but
the networks can be restrictive and the outer cost will vary,
especially for someone with health issues. The Medigap plus the
part D, that's of course, with the higher premiums, but
(10:33):
much better protection from big medical bills. So if you've
got chronic or significant health conditions, um, which clearly your
wife does, then that Medigap uh, plus the part D
drug plan is probably going to be the more predictable
and protective choice. And you know, you should start saving
(10:53):
for both of those premiums now. Um, you know, I
would say a good target for 2026, part B would
be around 200 a month. The Medigap would be somewhere
between 120 and 180 a month. It's going to vary
by state and age. And then part D is somewhere
between 20 and 40 a month. So we're talking 350
to $400 per month per person, or 7 to 850 combined,
(11:18):
if that makes sense.
S4 (11:21):
Yes. Is it for me though? Is it basically a
bet on whether I think I'm going to get, you know,
very sick in the future, very ill in the future?
S1 (11:29):
Yeah. Uh, exactly. And, you know, I think what it
what is your health status now? You're in good health.
S4 (11:37):
Very good health. Yeah. Minor, minor things, but very good health.
S1 (11:41):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, choosing between Medicare Advantage and Medigap
is a bit like deciding how much risk you want
to take on regarding future health needs. So, you know,
the advantage is more like a bet that you're going
to stay relatively healthy and you enjoy those lower premiums.
Medigap is like buying protection in case you do get sick.
So I think, you know, the question is for you,
(12:02):
do you want to pay less each month and take
the risk of higher costs later, or do you want
to pay more each month and protect against bigger bills
down the road? I would say if you're relatively healthy,
the Medicare Advantage is probably the way to go.
S4 (12:17):
Okay, once you sign up for a plan, you have
to stick with it permanently. Is that correct?
S1 (12:22):
You can switch, but there are limits. And so, you know,
you can leave Medicare Advantage during certain windows open enrollment.
And then Medicare Advantage has an open enrollment. But and
this is the key, you're going to have to go
through medical underwriting to get a medigap policy. So that
means the insurance company can ask health questions and charge more,
(12:44):
or even deny coverage. So I think that's the issue
you're running up against. If for some reason something came
up health wise, you know, that could work against you.
S4 (12:56):
Okay, I hear advantage is somewhat managed by the insurance company,
and so you may be restricted on who you can
see and what they decide to treat. Is that is
that correct?
S1 (13:07):
Yeah, that's definitely right. So you are going to be
more limited in the networks and the approvals with Medicare
Advantage for sure.
S4 (13:17):
Okay. That helps. And by the way I just became
a customer, a client of Shumaker Financial with Cleo Holder
here in Newberg, Indiana.
S1 (13:25):
Oh that's incredible.
S4 (13:27):
Yeah I picked that up from your from your radio show.
I'd heard about them for years and I finally signed up, so.
S1 (13:32):
Oh that's excellent. Well, I know, Jim, the principle there
real well know Cleo. They're they're wonderful men of God. And, uh,
are going to serve you really well. I'm confident of that.
S4 (13:44):
Absolutely. Thank you for your your ministry. Take care.
S1 (13:46):
Absolutely, John. Lord bless you, my friend. Thanks for calling today. Well, folks,
we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, uh,
we will continue to tackle your financial questions. We'll talk
to Greg in Ohio. We'll also head out to Texas
and talk to Molly as well. Uh, we've got room
for you. If you have a financial question, call right now.
Here's the number 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
(14:12):
We'll take a quick break and then back with much
more just around the corner. By the way, if you
want to find a certified Kingdom advisor in your area,
what we just spoke about a moment ago, just head
to find a seeker. We'll be right back. Hey, thanks
(14:34):
for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live here
on Moody Radio. Listen as we head toward year end.
This is a great time to remind you as a
listener supported ministry. This is a great time for us
to hear from you if you want to support the ministry. Uh,
you know, we're pressing quickly toward our year end goal
of $175,000. The good news is, some generous donors have
(14:56):
stepped up to match every gift. We are well on
our way. Uh, about, uh, a little over $100,000 remaining
in our year end, uh, giving campaign. And we're trying
to get there by December 31st. So if you found
value in the ministry, you love to listen to the
program or you want to help us reach more people
(15:16):
and underwrite some of the great resources we have planned
for 2026, just head to faith. That's faith. I give
every gift is doubled until December 31st. Up to 175,000.
And every gift will allow you to receive my new devotional,
Our Ultimate Treasure, when it comes out in January. It's hardback.
(15:39):
It's beautiful. But more than that, it's just chock full
of God's Word. And it's the 21 big ideas that
I've found in Scripture that I think every Christian needs
to know to be a wise and faithful steward so
you can head to faith. Give today, and thanks in advance.
All right. We're taking your phone calls today. We do
have a few lines open at 800 525 7000. Let's
(16:01):
go to Ohio. Greg. Go ahead.
S5 (16:05):
Uh, yes. I was, um, a question about refinancing. Um,
I want to refinance my home when it's when it's
beneficial to me. Um, I bought the house six months ago,
and I have two years. The bank has offered me, um, uh,
free fees, um, to refinance within the first two years
of the mortgage. Um, and with the interest rates beginning
(16:27):
to drop a little bit, um, and may drop some
more over the next year, how much should it drop
before it makes sense to refinance?
S1 (16:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. Uh, normally we would say,
you know, at least 1%, I think preferably 1.5%, uh,
decline before you would refinance. Uh, and you're going to
want to make sure that you stay in the home,
you know, for at least five years. Beyond that, uh, now,
(16:56):
what changes that slightly is the idea that the bank
is offering no fees if you refinance within two years.
And the reason that changes things is, you know, with
no closing costs, you really don't need that full 1%
drop to make it worthwhile. So I would say, you know,
if you can get down half a point to even
(17:17):
three quarters of a point with no fees, it's probably
worth doing, you know, so if at at 6.6%, if
you could get in the, the mid 5% range, even
in high 5% range, that's meaningful savings. And because there's
no closing costs, you don't need to, quote, earn anything back.
(17:38):
So even a smaller rate drop can save money. And
then obviously, once you get beyond what the bank is offering,
if that's truly a fee free scenario, you could look
to refinance down the road once you save another point
to a point and a half. Although you know it
may be a while before we see that. So I think, uh,
(17:58):
you know, with the no cost offer, uh, I'd be
looking for at least a half a point or more.
S5 (18:05):
Okay, great. Well, thank you very much.
S1 (18:08):
All right. Thanks for your call. Lord bless you. Uh.
Let's see. To Texas. Molly, how can I help?
S6 (18:14):
Hi, Rob. First of all, I want to say thank
you for your ministry. It has definitely helped me as
I've grown and continue to grow and become a better
steward over God's finances or resources. So I have about
$50,000 in debt and I want to begin saving. I
have not been so great with managing money. I've been
(18:35):
living outside of my means, and I'm coming to a
point where I no longer want to do that and
want to know what's the best step to take? Do
I throw all my money towards debt snowball, or do
I try to put away money for the future and
do both?
S1 (18:51):
Yeah. Well, Molly, I love what you're talking about here, that,
you know, you've kind of come to the end of
yourself and lists and said, listen, this is not working.
And I want to honor the Lord with what he's
entrusted to me. And despite the mistakes I've made in
the past. And we could all say that, uh, you know,
from this point forward, I want to be that faithful
steward that God has called me to be. And I'm
(19:12):
delighted that we could play a very small part in
that here on this program each day. Uh, here's what
I'd love to do. You know, I think you getting
with our friends at Christian Credit Counselors would be great,
because we could get that the interest rates down for
the cards we put in the program, they would be
temporarily closed. You couldn't use them anymore. Um, but with
the combination of the reduction in interest rate and then
(19:34):
that level monthly payment, which is probably going to be
around 3%. So on 50,000, I mean, that could be
1500 a month, maybe a little less. But I think
the key is let's really dial in your spending and
try to get that, you know, coming down much quicker.
The good news is on a credit counseling program with
Christian credit counselors, on average, you'll pay it off 80%
(19:57):
faster just because you'll have that level payment and the
much lower interest rate. So a lot more of your
payment every month is going toward principal versus what you
have right now. Um, the other thing I'd like to do, Molly,
just because I'm hearing, you know, in your voice that
you're committed to this. Um, I'd love to cover the
cost to give you access to a certified Christian financial counselor.
(20:20):
So this is, uh, someone who's been trained. And really,
their ministry is helping God's people develop a spending plan,
set up a, you know, a debt repayment plan. And
I think the combination of somebody who's helping you put
the plan together and providing some prayer and accountability for
you alongside the credit counseling program might be the key.
(20:41):
You know, on top of your desire to really honor
the Lord, to getting you moving in the right direction here,
would that be something you'd want to take advantage of?
S6 (20:50):
Definitely. Thank you.
S1 (20:52):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we'll pay for the cost of that.
We'll cover the first several sessions of you meeting with
the the counselor, and that person will walk alongside you and,
you know, perhaps give you a fresh look at your budget,
help you think about maybe anything you're missing there and
then also, you know, help you get transitioned over to
Christian credit counselors. If that's what you decide to do.
(21:13):
You can do this. I believe you can. And I
think once you get on the other side of this,
you're going to be just so grateful to the Lord
for the freedom you're going to have as this burden
is lifted and be able to use money truly, as
a tool to accomplish God's purposes, which is the way
he designed it. So you stay on the line, Molly.
We'll get your information. We'll get you connected to a
(21:34):
certified Christian financial counselor. And then if you want to
go ahead and reach out to Christian credit counselors, they
can start evaluating your creditors and what those new reduced
interest rates will be. So you stay on the line.
The only thing I'll ask of you is when you
get on the other side of this, call me back.
I want to hear that. That testimony. Lord bless you.
(21:55):
We'll be right back on faith and finance live. Great
to have you with us today on Faith and finance live.
I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today.
That number to call 800 525 7000. Again that's 800
(22:17):
525 7000. Hey, before we head back to the phones,
let me remind you, it is National Collection Week until
November the 24th for Operation Christmas Child. That's right. It's
a great time to drop off your filled shoe box. Uh,
we want to say thanks for sharing the hope and
love of Christ with children around the world. If you've
(22:37):
not yet filled your shoe box, I can tell you
from personal experience, it's an incredible opportunity to share the
love of Jesus with children around the globe and to
get your whole family involved. All the details are at
Moody Radio. Org. Just click on the banner the Operation
Christmas Child banner and that will give you packing tips details.
(22:59):
Also the drop off site location in your area. There's
more than 5000 of them around the country, but it's
going to come and go. The 24th will be here
before you know it, and next week we're going to
be into the Christmas holiday and and, uh, excuse me,
the Thanksgiving holiday. And, uh, your mind's going to be
other places, so don't miss it. Go ahead and fill
(23:20):
your shoebox, perhaps this weekend and head to Moody Radio org.
Click the Operation Christmas Child banner, and it will answer
all of your questions. All right, let's head back to
the phones. Akron, Ohio. Brian. Go ahead.
S4 (23:34):
Hi, Rob.
S7 (23:34):
This is Brian. Thanks for your expertise. Appreciate it.
S1 (23:37):
Absolutely. Thank you.
S7 (23:39):
Um, I have an annuity that's going to mature in
about a year or two. I placed it with a
bank for five years, and I'm wondering what to do
with it after it matures, or what my options might be.
S1 (23:55):
Okay. Yeah, that's a great question. So when annuity matures
you've got several options Brian. And the right one really
depends on your goals for both income and safety as
well as growth. So with about 150,000 coming out and
if you're debt free, uh, you know, you're in a
(24:15):
great position. And I think the first option would be
to take the money as a lump sum where you
simply withdraw the full value. Now, if it's in what's
called a non-qualified annuity, then any growth will be taxable
as ordinary income. If it's a qualified annuity pre-tax, then
the whole withdrawal is taxable. But you'd want to roll
(24:38):
it to either another annuity or to an IRA. And
that would keep it in a tax deferred environment. Um
you know obviously you could always annuitize it as well,
which means converting it to a lifetime income stream, which
gives you the predictable income in retirement. But my preference generally, and,
(24:59):
you know, it's wise to do some planning if there's,
you know, lots of different issues and you have other
assets to consider. But my preference typically is for you
to roll it out either into a taxable account if
it's a non-qualified annuity or into an IRA, if it's
a qualified annuity, and then you have access to the
full amount at that point. And then you'd probably want
(25:22):
to either, you know, move it to an advisor you've
already got a relationship with, or hire an advisor to
begin managing it for you based on your goals and objectives.
But those would be your options. What do you kind
of leaning toward?
S7 (25:36):
The, um, all the money's all the money that was
put in there originally was from a previous IRA. Okay, yeah.
So it's probably a, you know, all that would be taxed.
So it sounds like I'm going to maybe roll that
in either into another annuity or an IRA.
S1 (25:56):
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean those are really
your options. And you know, if you were to put
it into another annuity, you'd have to choose, okay, do
I want a fixed annuity for guaranteed growth. Do I want, uh,
you know, an indexed annuity where you've got some upside
with no market losses or what's called a deferred income annuity?
I mean, the downside to the, you know, going with
(26:18):
another annuity is you're locking up the money. So you're
going to have surrender periods and you can't get to it. Secondly,
because you're kind of locking yourself in at a lower
rate of return, there is some inflation risk there in that, although,
you know, you're getting the guarantees and a more conservative
approach without the risk of the losses from the market. Um,
(26:39):
you know, you do have a lesser return than you
could get with a properly diversified stock and bond portfolio.
And so, you know, with, with people living longer, I mean,
once you hit 65, if you're in good health, it's
kind of a a coin toss in terms a coin
toss in terms of whether or not you'll live into
your 90s. I mean, you very well likely could live
well into your 90s. And then we have longevity risk,
(27:02):
which is where, you know, a lot of times getting
it out of the annuity and have a little bit more,
you know, potential for return. But with the downside possibility
as well, you know, is where most people end up, um,
you know, unless you're just looking for that safety and
peace of mind and, you know, then the annuity may
be the right thing for you.
S7 (27:22):
Well, that's why I took it out of the market.
Because the group that I had it with before, which
will be unnamed, um, it did not seem like they
were doing anything with it as far as a growth potential. Sure.
It seemed like it just leveled off and stayed there forever.
(27:44):
And I was not real happy. And I thought, well,
this would be better than what they're doing.
S1 (27:53):
Yeah. And I think, you know, the key there is
we don't want to get into a binary trap that
the old advisor or an annuity, one or the other.
I mean, what about that third option? And I think
that's where if you are going to go outside of
another annuity product, which would typically be my approach, unless
somebody is just, you know, completely risk averse, then I
would say, you know, I'd interview 2 or 3 certified
(28:15):
Kingdom advisors there in Akron, see if you can find
the one that's the better fit for you. And obviously,
as a part of that interview process you're talking about, okay,
what would the investment strategy look like where, you know,
what have other clients seen who have had a similar
strategy for me? Um, but, you know, that's going to
give you ultimate flexibility, the potential for better returns. But
(28:38):
at the end of the day, it's ultimately about that
advisor and those investments that are being selected for you.
S7 (28:44):
Okay, great.
S1 (28:45):
Yeah. Uh, if you want to find a K to. Yeah,
if you want to find somebody there in Ohio, Brian,
I would just head to find a com and you
could do a zip code search and, uh, connect with
a few of the folks there in that area. So, uh,
we appreciate your call today. Thanks for being on the program.
Lord bless you. Uh, let's, uh, stay in Ohio. CJ,
(29:05):
how can I help?
S8 (29:07):
Oh, yes. Hi. Thank you for your ministry.
S1 (29:09):
Sure. Thank you.
S8 (29:11):
Yeah. Yes. But I was wondering if you have a
supplemental Medigap policy. Um, do you need Medicare A and B,
or do you just need a.
S1 (29:24):
No to have the Medigap the supplemental? You have to
have both A and B. So that's how Medigap works.
It fills in the gaps in original Medicare. And original
Medicare is A plus B, so A covers the hospital care,
B covers the doctor's visits and outpatient care. And then
Medigap covers the deductibles, the co-pays, the coinsurance that's left
(29:48):
over from A and B. If you drop B, your
Medigap plan can't be used because there's nothing for it
to supplement. So, uh, you know, that would be the
way you would need to go on that.
S8 (30:00):
Okay, well, that answers my question because I didn't know
if I needed both or not.
S1 (30:05):
Okay. Excellent.
S8 (30:06):
I need both. Okay. Thank you so much.
S1 (30:08):
You're welcome. I'm glad we could clear it up. Thanks
for your call today. Well, folks, we've covered a lot
of ground today, but we still have a whole nother
segment to go, talk to Nancy in Ohio. Here in
just a moment. She's wanting to know about taking Social
Security and that limit on the amount she can earn
after doing so. But if you have a financial question today,
we probably got room for 1 to 2 more questions
(30:31):
in addition to those holding. So you could call right
now the number 800 525 7000. Again that's 800 525 7000.
We'll take a quick break and then come back with
much more. Here's our goal to be an encouragement to you,
to point you back to God's Word and help you
live as a wise and faithful steward. That's our goal
(30:51):
each afternoon on this program. Thanks for being with us.
More to come right after this. Well, I'm glad you've
been with us today here on Faith and Finance Live.
Maybe you're just tuning in. This program each day is
to help you see God as your ultimate treasure and
(31:13):
manage money as a tool, a good gift from God
to be used to accomplish his purposes. We're taking your
calls and questions today. We'll get to as many as
we can here in this final segment, let's head to Ohio. Nancy,
how can I help?
S9 (31:27):
Yes. How are you? Um, I have the chance to
retire from my current job and get a pension next.
Next year in January, I'll be 65 and I qualify
for normal retirement and a pension. But I am planning
to work until 67. I'm good health, and I'd like
to just continue. Um, I'm debating on if I want
to take Social Security at 65, or if I should
(31:49):
wait till 67. The question is, is I keep hearing
from people that that first year that you retire, there's
some type of a waiver or something where you can
make more than that Social Security limit of like 24,000. Um,
so that's what I wanted to ask you. Is that
a thing? Because I looked on the website and I
couldn't find anything about that.
S1 (32:08):
Yeah. Uh, it's a great question. And it's not the
first year it's, uh, really all the way up until
you reach full retirement age. So under full retirement age,
you can earn up to $23,400. That's the 2025 limit.
(32:28):
When you go above that, they're going to reduce your
benefit by a dollar for every $2 you earn above
the limit. 23,400. Now, the year in which you reach
full retirement age, the earnings limit goes up pretty dramatically.
So let's say you reached full retirement age in 2025.
(32:49):
Then you would jump up from 23,400 this year. That
higher number for the year you turn up full retirement
age is 62,160. So the years prior to the year
you turned full retirement age 23,400, the year you turn
62,001 60. Um, that reduction though, and this is an
(33:13):
important distinction, is only temporary. And here's what I mean. Yes,
they're going to reduce your benefit by $1 for every
$2 you go over, but you'll eventually get it back
in the form of a higher check. Now they're not
going to give it to you all at once. They're
going to increase your check beyond what you would have
normally received and give you a little bit extra each
(33:34):
month and then over, probably as much as a ten
year period. They will pay you back for every dollar
they withheld until you're made whole. Um, that's different than
the permanent reduction you get by taking it early. Um,
that's just paying you back for the amount they withheld,
only related to the amount, you know, by going over
(33:56):
the earnings limit. Does that make sense? I know that
gets confusing.
S9 (33:59):
Yes, it makes perfect sense. Now let me ask you,
does my pension count toward that income. Maximum of 23.5.
S1 (34:07):
Uh, yeah. So so what would you be earning? Give
me your income sources.
S9 (34:12):
I would be getting a pension. It would be about
3000 from one company, and then I get another pension
from an old company about 700.
S1 (34:19):
Um, okay.
S9 (34:20):
But it's all pre-tax.
S1 (34:22):
Yeah, it does not. So what they count is what's
called earned income. So that would be wages from a
job and self-employment income. It does not count pensions, IRA withdrawals,
annuity payments, investment income things like that. That is not
earned income and therefore is not applied to this limit.
S9 (34:42):
This is wonderful information. Thank you. I knew I could
trust you versus these other people telling me weird things.
S10 (34:48):
It's like I need to call Rob.
S1 (34:50):
I'm so glad you did, Nancy. Call any time. I'd
be delighted to help with anything I can. So Lord
bless you. Have a great weekend and happy Thanksgiving to
you in advance. Uh, we'll go to Indiana next. Christine.
Go ahead.
S8 (35:04):
Yes. Thank you. Rob, I'm so, so.
S6 (35:06):
Grateful for your ministry. Very grateful. Okay.
S8 (35:09):
If I use the terms which you will probably understand
are MDS 500 and 1C3, you probably know what those are, right?
S1 (35:17):
I do.
S10 (35:17):
Yes. Okay, good.
S8 (35:19):
I had a struggle with talking to people who answered
the phone, but that's okay. Okay, so I turned 73
in August. I'm a retired federal employee. I've been retired
for two years, since I'm 73 now from my thrift
savings plan. Like a 401 K. I have to take
a required minimum distribution. I'm going to round it off
with about 10,000. About 10,000. I was hoping, but now
(35:42):
I'm finding out I'm wrong. I was hoping to take
eight of the ten and roll it over to an IRA,
and then have the IRA custodian then distribute that to
like a church and some ministries to a 500 1C3
so I can avoid taxes. That's what I was hoping
I could do. But TSP is telling me, no, you
can't do that. You can't roll over an RMD to
(36:04):
IRA and then have that RA custodian distributed to 501 C3.
I have to take the whole. It's actually about 9500.
You have to take the whole amount and then, um,
pay taxes on it. Federal and state taxes. Is that right?
S10 (36:18):
Do you know?
S1 (36:19):
Yeah, I do know. Yeah. So are you looking at
rolling the entire TSP over to an IRA or just
a part of it?
S8 (36:27):
No, no, just just just that RMD only there's a
lot more in there than the 10,000. Just of the
money I have in my TSP. They look at your
age and divided by the balance of 1231 last year.
And then they come up with you get a statement
showing how much that RMD is at the first of
the year 2025, and it showed about $9,500. I was
gonna keep a little myself. Just go ahead and take
(36:49):
the 2000 directly, pay the taxes on that. But that
other eight grand, the 8000 I was wanting to give
to charities like church and ministries.
S1 (36:57):
Now, the challenge is the IRS is pretty strict on this.
So you can't roll over an RMD to an IRA. Um, It.
You have to. You would have to roll the TSP
over to the IRA. Um, and then do the QCD.
You can't just roll the RMD to an IRA to
(37:19):
do a QCD. If the IRS determines that the only
reason you did the rollover into the IRA was to
then turn around and do the QCD, they're not going
to let you do that. So they would want you
to roll the rest of the TSP into the IRA.
And then starting the next year, you could begin taking
(37:39):
your RMD from the IRA. IRA using the qualified charitable distribution.
Does that make sense?
S8 (37:45):
Okay. The last part you said that because she was
saying if I even rolled over the whole thing, let's
just say it's 300,000. Um, 9500 of that. Um, I
can't rollover into an IRA this year, but I did
not know that. So I guess if I move the
whole TSP over in 2026 to an IRA, then going forward,
(38:06):
those required minimum distributions. I can have the IRA custodian
then distribute that to different 500 and 1C3.
S1 (38:12):
That's exactly right. Yeah. Once the money is in the
IRA moving forward, then all of your RMDs could go
to ministry. You'd satisfy the required minimum for the year and,
you know, never pay tax on the money because it's
going straight to the ministry.
S8 (38:28):
Right. The negative is that TSP is doing so good. Um,
is it possible I could get an IRA that's doing
as good as that? It is really doing good.
S1 (38:36):
Yeah. You know, it's amazing how the Thrift Savings plan,
the performance has really been stellar over the years, and
I love that the investment options are fairly limited. So
it makes it kind of simple to pick, you know,
do I want the the I or the C or
the S or the G. Uh, even those life cycle
funds and the performance has been great. Can you get
that performance? Well, absolutely. Because right now you have a
(38:59):
very limited menu. As soon as you get to the IRA,
you basically have an unlimited number of investment options. The
downside is you have an unlimited number of investment options.
So somebody has to choose the investments. So that's where
you know, whereas you can typically do it yourself in
the TSP because they've made it so simple. If you
roll it to the IRA, I would encourage you, especially
(39:20):
with a significant sum of money like you have. I'd
encourage you to get an advisor to manage it for
you in that IRA, but you will have the benefit
from that point forward of doing the qualified charitable distribution.
S8 (39:32):
Right now, when you see an advisor, an advisor within
like fidelity or something, or an advisor outside of that.
S1 (39:38):
Yeah. I mean, advisors, depending on where you landed, the
advisor may use Fidelity or Schwab as the custodian. But
I'm talking about an investment advisor that would take over
discretion of managing the money for you, picking the investments.
And I would, uh, choose a certified Kingdom advisor. So
what I'd do is I'd go to our website, find
a com, put in your zip code and find, you know,
(40:02):
a list of certified Kingdom advisors in Indiana, an interview
2 or 3 and find the one that you feel
like is the best fit.
S8 (40:09):
Right. So I guess with that, you'd have to kind
of do like a, an analysis like say, okay, I'm losing,
I don't know, $1,500 in taxes, but what is the
going to cost me? What is? Maybe I won't get
quite as good returns in the IRA. I guess that's
the homework I have to do, right?
S1 (40:27):
Well, and I wouldn't say that. I mean, you're not
going to know what the returns are until you know. Right?
So there's no way to predict what it's going to be.
You could look at the advisors, you know, uh, averages
or ask the advisor for somebody who was in my
similar strategy over the last 12, 24 months, five years.
How have they done? Um, but there's no way to
know how it's going to do. There's also no way
(40:49):
to know how the TSP is going to perform in
the future. And the fees don't concern me again, you've
spent your whole life amassing this wealth, so having an
advisor that's managing it for you, picking the The investments,
you know, I think is really the way to go.
But yeah, there is a cost to it. And you
do have to to weigh the cost of it versus
the savings on the RMD. But again, just assuming that
(41:13):
the TSP is automatically going to perform as well in
the future as it has to this point. You know,
I don't know that you could trust that as much as,
you know, whether or not an advisor is going to
do better or worse.
S8 (41:24):
You're right, because I'm in one of those life cycles,
and as I get older and older, that's going to
become more conservative.
S10 (41:30):
More it will.
S1 (41:31):
Yeah. Automatically.
S8 (41:32):
That'll be that'll make it. That'll make it a little
bit less. And also too as the money as the
good thing about your TSP or K or whatever IRA doing.
Well that increases your RMD which increases your taxes. So
um yeah, I think so, but I can't I think
I cannot do it now this year it's too late.
S10 (41:50):
But that's right. In the future you could 26 could I.
S1 (41:55):
Think if you get it in there in 2026, you
would probably do it out of there the following year
as a QCD. I talked to your CPA about the
timing on that. I appreciate your call. Christine. Quickly to Tennessee. Patrice,
I understand you sold a piece of rental property. Has
that sale already gone through?
S11 (42:14):
It has not closed yet. It will close November 8th.
S1 (42:17):
Okay. Yeah, I think you're, uh. Well, November. What?
S11 (42:22):
Uh. Hey, I'm. I'm sorry. December 8th.
S1 (42:24):
Okay. Yeah. Unfortunately, you would need to put that property
in the donor advised fund before it sells in order
to get that tax benefit. And I think time is
too short. Reach out to our friends at, uh, National
Christian Foundation, and they can tell you all the details.
Just go to faith. Sorry, I only had a moment there,
but I wanted to give you that answer before I
(42:46):
was done today. That's Faith by NC. Big thanks to Jim, Lisa,
Josh and Dan. Faith and Finance lives a partnership between
Moody Radio and Faith five. We'll see you next week.
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