August 8, 2025 • 42 mins
Wise financial decisions don’t happen in a vacuum—they often require wise counsel. But how do you know if the person giving you advice shares your convictions and values? On the next Faith & Finance Live, Rob West and Brian Cochran explore how biblical wisdom should shape not just our decisions, but the voices we trust. Then, he addresses your questions on various financial topics. That’s Faith & Finance Live —where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances, weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:08):
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes.
But a wise man listens to advice. Proverbs 1215. I
am Rob West. Wise financial decisions don't happen in a vacuum.
They often require wise counsel. But how do you know
if the person giving you advice shares your convictions and values?
Brian Cochran joins us today to explore how biblical wisdom
(00:29):
should shape not just our decisions, but the voices we trust.
Then it's on to your calls at 800, 500, 25, 7000.
That's 805, two five, 7000. This is faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, it's a pleasure
(00:49):
to welcome my friend Brian Cochran to the program. He's
a certified financial planner and a certified Kingdom advisor, serves
as the chief stewardship officer at John Moore Associates. Brian,
great to have you here.
S2 (01:02):
Yeah. So excited to be with you, Rob.
S1 (01:04):
Brian, I know the team at John Moore recently celebrated
an incredible milestone that is over $50 million given to
those in need through your client's charitable giving, which is
just incredible. And that's not just impressive. It's a powerful
reflection of the mission there at John Moore Associates. Many
(01:25):
financial advisors focus on helping clients grow their wealth, which
of course isn't a bad thing. Money is a good
gift from the Lord. But as a certified Kingdom advisor,
you're also focused on helping your clients give more of
it away. So I'd love to start there. Can you
expand more on what sets you apart as a k-a?
S2 (01:44):
Yeah, it has a lot to do with our why.
Our purpose for being as a business. As individual planners
and our team. We have 15 folks that work with us, Rob,
that are all aligned in our mission, which is to
walk alongside the families we serve, helping them become wise
and generous stewards. So rather than just try to be
a profitable business or to make a living as individuals,
(02:07):
we feel we're called to influence the families we serve
in ways that guide them to better money. Decisions based
on what the Bible says is wise when it comes
to wealth and finance, but also to help them become generous.
And that $50 million number you mentioned is a reflection
of that.
S1 (02:24):
Yeah, there's no doubt about it. And I love that
you mentioned this is a calling. You know, you're a
financial pastor of sorts. And because we know money issues
are hard issues, which gives you an amazing opportunity. And
I love that you're so clear for you and your
team on what that looks like as you engage with clients. Now,
you've said before, Brian, that financial planning is more art
(02:45):
than science. That may catch some folks off guard, so
I'd love for you to unpack that a bit.
S2 (02:50):
Yeah, I think people believe because we're dealing with money
and numbers, that it's all technical, that we're all just
a bunch of nerds sitting with pocket protectors and, you know, and,
you know, crunching numbers and doing calculations and following the
markets and trading. But there's so much of what we
do as financial pastors, if you will, or financial planners
(03:12):
that go beyond the math side of a financial plan.
You know, that's the the taxes, the investment returns, the
laws and regulations. Those all matter. But the actual advice
you receive from a financial planner and a certified Kingdom
advisor is largely driven by the values, the priorities, and
the personal convictions of that planner. So that's where the
(03:33):
the art part comes in is. You're going to see
a different result based on those values of the person
across the table. And so in a sense, you could
sit down with ten different financial advisors, and one family
could go to ten different offices and see ten different
results in terms of the financial planning recommendations, based on
the preferences and values of that financial planning team.
S1 (03:56):
Yeah, that's well said. I mean, at the heart of it, Brian,
as believers, there's really a deeper purpose at work here,
isn't there?
S2 (04:02):
Exactly. And I think what's important for us to remember
is that we are stewards. We're managing God's money. So
if we're enlisting someone like a financial planner or a
tax advisor to help us be wise in our financial decisions,
it's not just about what we want, but we're trying
to meet God's expectations for what he's given us to manage.
(04:23):
And so we're in a stewardship role. And we often
say as financial planners, we're the stewards of the stewards.
We're trying to help people make good decisions with their
piece of God's portfolio. And you have to ask yourself,
does this person, does this advisor understand what I believe
about money and why it matters to me? And, you know,
is my financial planner really going to help me reflect
(04:45):
God's will and God's purpose for these resources? Or is
this just about making more money?
S1 (04:51):
Mhm. Wow. Yeah. If you're a steward of stewards, you
know you're going to give an account someday to not
only what God has entrusted to you financially, but also
with your clients. And I know that's something that weighs
heavy on your heart. And I love how you all
live that out there at the firm. Well, we're going
to take a quick break and we come back more
with Brian Cochran today. What does it look like in
(05:12):
terms of the questions you might ask as you interview
an advisor or engage with an advisor who shares your values?
And how does this play out in day to day life?
Much more just around the corner. We'll be right back.
Don't go anywhere. Thanks for joining us today on Faith
(05:34):
and Finance Live. I'm Rob West with me today. My
friend Brian Cochran. He's a certified financial planner and a
certified Kingdom advisor. And he serves as the chief stewardship
officer at John Moore and Associates. And boy, it's a
delight to have Brian here as we talk about the
role of a certified Kingdom advisor who's really on mission,
who's approaching the advice relationship through the lens of stewardship.
(05:58):
And one evidence of that is the firm just celebrated
over $50 million given to causes on the heart of
God through their clients charitable giving. And that is something
that we just celebrate here today and I think is
a great picture of really the work of a certified
Kingdom advisor, because at its core, Brian, uh, an advisor
(06:20):
may look at that and say, wait a minute, that's
$50 million. You could have been managing and therefore charging
fees on. Right?
S2 (06:27):
Yeah, it's it's God's economy, though, because our business has
tripled in the time that we help clients give those
dollars away. So we didn't help clients be generous because
we thought it would grow our business. But I think
God's continue to bless our firm and the families we
serve as we've walked many, many families through this journey
of generosity.
S1 (06:47):
Well, Brian, before the break, we were talking about the
deeper purpose at work when you engage with clients well
beyond the numbers into hard issues and really the intersection
of values and our faith and the decisions that you're
guiding clients to make. Give us a picture of how
that disconnect might show up in real life.
S2 (07:07):
Yeah. Unfortunately, we've seen this happen, and we've heard many
stories from friends in the industry. One example from the
generosity side, we were just talking about charitable giving and
how we encourage the families we serve to be generous. Um,
but we've heard examples and I've seen a few examples myself,
where we build a generosity strategy and help a client
give maybe more than they've ever given. And we actually
(07:30):
might face pushback from a tax advisor or an attorney
who doesn't really understand the heart of the client and
can't make sense of why someone would be so generous. Um,
so they're actually saying, well, are you sure you want
to give all that money away to these nonprofits, to
these ministries? Um, and they just don't follow The thought
process and the heart of the client. And sometimes they
(07:52):
actually can get in the way of the process and
slow it down. So if they're not sort of with you,
that could be a chance that they're working against you
and your generosity journey. Another example we see a lot
as part of our role is to help people manage
their investments, is we see people show up who've worked
with advisors for years. That could be very competent advisors.
(08:13):
But we also unpack the client's portfolio and find out
many of the investments that they've chosen, um, or the
advisors chosen for them, if you will, um, might not
reflect the client's values. So maybe they're investing in companies
that profit from alcohol sales or abortion or pornography. Um,
and the clients are a little disappointed or even appalled
(08:33):
to find out that they've been participating with these companies.
So the things you own and you invest in can
differ based on the planner you're working with. And you
want to make sure that's aligned. Um, and so really,
it's just all these things can steer you in directions
that don't align with your faith and your values. Um,
often without you knowing, you know, we really rely on
(08:53):
these professionals to give us good advice and and guide
us in ways that are wise and prudent. Um, but
if they're not aligned with your values, they might be
taking you a direction you did not intend.
S1 (09:03):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think one of the
biggest barriers to God's people doing something significant for God
financially is often the financial advisor. You know, the Lord
lays something really big on their hearts. They walk into
the advisor's office and he or she says, you don't
want to do that. And they don't. And I think
that really underscores the difference here around an advisor who
(09:25):
understands the heart of God and the counsel of Scripture
and can really journey with you through these really critical
stewardship decisions. So let's talk about how then that conversation changes. Brian,
when your advisor does share your values, what does that
look like?
S2 (09:41):
Yeah the values alignment strong. Rob. It should feel different.
You should feel a connection there and a stronger relationship.
But also it should impact the actual advice you receive.
For example, on this topic of generosity, rather than an
advisor questioning your giving, or maybe not even discussing generosity
at all, maybe your financial advisor and your tax advisor
become cheerleaders for you that celebrate your giving with you,
(10:05):
or in some cases challenge you in your giving and saying,
you know, you seem to have capacity to give more.
Why aren't you being more generous at this time? Or
what opportunities are there to be more generous? That's one
thing we work with a lot with the families we
serve is we're always on the hunt for those families
that maybe are already giving, but don't understand how great
(10:25):
their capacity is to be generous and that they can
afford to do so. So we're actually pushing clients and
challenging them in their giving in a way that's productive. Um,
and a big thing we see that changes a lot
in our conversations is changing from a accumulation attitude of just,
you know, the goal is always more money Yes, to
(10:45):
a real sense of purpose that starts with contentment and
understanding how much is enough, which is a very uncommon
conversation in our culture, but also in the offices of
financial planners. So if we can talk more about contentment,
rather than always buying faster cars and bigger houses, it
tends to lead to a whole different set of decision
making and more satisfaction, more joy. We know that from Scripture.
(11:08):
That's what we should expect. And then when it comes
to the investing side, rather than just investing as everyone
else does, maybe looking at companies and strategies that reflect
God's principles and and investing in companies or funds that
really reflect the client's values and then helping them understand
the benefits of that. So they become, in many cases,
more excited about their investing and more engaged with a
(11:32):
strong sense of ownership of what they're buying with their
investments so that they they feel empowered there. And they
know with confidence that they're not supporting things that are
counter to their values.
S1 (11:44):
Mhm. Yeah that's really helpful. Uh, Brian, if someone's looking
for an advisor and really wants to begin to have
this conversation to ensure they share the same Christian values,
what would be some questions that they should ask.
S2 (11:57):
Yeah, that's a great question, Rob. Um, so try to
keep it very open ended. Um, yeah. And I like
to start with values. All of us make decisions based
on our values, whether we've ever actually documented our values
and and thought about it. So the first question could be,
what are your firm's core values or you as an individual,
what are your core values as a financial advisor? And
(12:19):
then let them share? You know, for us, it's simple.
We know our values. We talk about them every week
with our team. So everybody on our crew is prepared
to answer that question with conviction and then ask, how
do those values show up in the way you serve clients?
So one of our values is generosity. And we talked
Rob about we track how much our clients give. That's
one way it shows up. And then we talk about
(12:40):
generosity with every family we serve. And then how do
they define success for a client? What does a successful
client relationship look like for their firm? That's a really
good one, because if success for them is just that
they're beating the market or, you know, they're seeing more
clients or they're seeing client assets grow, those are good metrics.
(13:00):
But is there something that defines success for them that's
aligned with your definition of success? Yeah. It's always also good, Rob,
to ask about compensation. You know, how are they paid.
Are they paid based on the assets they manage based
on products they sell, based on that time they spend
with you? Uh, and then in line with that, are
there any conflicts of interest in how they're compensated or
(13:21):
in the investments they choose for you? And then I
think as a believer, you should be bold and very
direct and just say, how will your advice support and
strengthen my faith?
S1 (13:30):
That's really helpful. But what about somebody who's already working
with an advisor and is starting to feel some tension?
Maybe their values don't line up any longer, or maybe
they never did. What do they do?
S2 (13:41):
Yeah. Changing advisors is hard. So that's a tough decision, Rob.
But I think you can ask a lot of those
same questions. And if you don't get the answers you
feel are appropriate, it may be time to go to
that search page and find a Kingdom advisor who can
better align with your values.
S1 (13:57):
Yeah, I think a key idea here is this is
God's money and your advisor works for you. And so
having this values alignment could be a game changer. Brian,
thanks for your time today, my friend.
S2 (14:07):
Yeah. My pleasure.
S1 (14:08):
That certified Financial planner and Certified Kingdom advisor Brian Cochran
with John Moore Associates. If you want to find an
advisor who shares your values, go to. Com and click
Find a Professional. That's faith. Click find a professional. We'll
be right back.
S3 (14:32):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:55):
Why so much fun to have Brian Cochran in the
studio today? Brian is just a wonderful man who's chasing
after the Lord and serving clients so well as he
leads John Moore Associates. And I'll tell you, the team
that he leads is just incredible. And I love the
picture that he paints of an advisor journeying alongside his
(15:19):
or her client and cheering them on as they serve
the Lord. And they use God's money for God's glory
with their advisor in lockstep. And in fact, as Brian said,
and in some cases even challenging them to step out
in faith and to hear the voice of the Lord
as they perhaps do some scary giving along the way
(15:39):
as they give sacrificially. Uh, you know, that's a game
changer when you have an advisor who can give wise,
competent financial counsel, but also understand the counsel of Scripture
and be able to bring that biblical worldview to bear.
So if you'd like to find a Ka in your area,
there are more than 1800 of them across the US
and Canada. Just go to our website, Philly.com. Well, you'll
(16:03):
just click and then click, uh, is what I meant
to say. Find a professional right at the top of
the page. Faith Philly.com. Click find a professional. All right.
In just a moment, we're going to begin taking your
phone calls today. We want to hear what's on your
mind and address whatever specific issues you have going on.
So if you have a financial question on any topic today,
(16:23):
go ahead and call right now. That number is 800
525 7000. Again that number is 800 525 7000. We
look forward to hearing from you. We do have some
lines open. They will fill up quickly. So now would
be the time to call because you'll get right through again.
800 525 7000. Uh, let me mention, though, um, I
(16:45):
would be remiss if I didn't say how grateful we
are here at Moody Radio for the incredible response we
saw to the 48 hours of impact as you gave
so generously to support, uh, Moody Aviation and the next
generation of missionary aviators, uh, flying and repairing and sharing
(17:07):
the gospel by way of plane and helicopter and doing
that to the ends of the earth. It's amazing to
see how you responded even above and beyond our goal. And, um,
we only have and will tell the impact of what
you're doing as you're releasing God's money back to him
by way of this incredible ministry. And so we're just
(17:29):
want to say thank you. Uh, those of you who
listen to faith and finance live here on Moody Radio.
I suspect as you live out a biblical worldview of
money and you hold God's money loosely, you're finding yourself
increasingly looking for ways to give because you just find
so much joy in it. And you want to be
able to to give as unto the Lord on the
(17:50):
things on the heart of God. And clearly the ministry
of God's Word preaching, teaching, discipleship, Bible translation, and yes,
Bible distribution, even in unreached people groups and in remote
parts of the world. That happens in part because of
aviators on the mission field. And Moody aviation is one
of the gold standards in terms of training those mechanics
(18:13):
and pilots. So we are so thankful for your involvement. Listen,
we'll begin taking your phone calls here in just a moment.
The lines are the calls are coming in right now,
but we have room for you. 800 525 7000. In
the news today, criminals are increasingly targeting older Americans retirement
and financial accounts through imposter scams, according to the FTC.
(18:35):
Here's how the scams work. Scammers invent a fake crisis
and pose as trusted representatives from banks and major companies
like Amazon or Apple or Microsoft. They also um and
will pose as government agencies as well. So think the
Social Security Administration or the Federal Trade Commission. Now victims
(18:58):
are told to transfer money to, quote, protect it or
for another false reason. And losses can drain your entire
life savings, including a 401 K account. Here's the numbers
on this. Losses of $100,000 or more among victims 60
and older jumped from 55,000,000 in 2020 to 450,000,000 in 2024.
(19:24):
That's a 700% increase. Overall, elder fraud losses reached 700,000,000
100,000,000 in 2024. That's up from 122 million just four
years prior. So here's the tips that the Federal Trade
Commission would offer to you to avoid the imposter scams. First,
don't ever move money to, quote, protect it. That's a
(19:48):
scam tactic. Second, verify verify verify before acting. Use official
contact info. Never numbers from pop ups or texts or emails.
If you get a call from somebody claiming to be
from a government agency, just very politely say, I'm going
to get off the phone now. Thank you for calling.
(20:09):
Hang up. And if you are wondering whether that's legitimate,
you go source the phone number for that government agency
and call them directly, and you initiate that call and
you can find out if there's anything legitimate there. And
then third block unwanted calls. So use the carrier call
blocking tools. These are becoming more and more sophisticated. They're
(20:31):
easier to use than ever on your smartphone, or even
if you have a home phone still. In 2024, the
FTC received 8269 reports from adults 60 and older, losing
at least $10,000 to these scams. That's up 362%. So
this is running rampant. Be aware of it. And if
(20:53):
there's a a senior in your life, maybe a parent
or a grandparent that you want to make aware of this,
let them know that these imposter scams are on the rise.
Perhaps you just tipping them off to that might raise
a red flag so that the next time it happens,
they may, uh, not give out their personal information or
take action when asked. Stop in their tracks and then
(21:16):
tell somebody or initiate the call directly to verify its authenticity.
I hope that helps. Listen, we're going to take a break.
When we come back, we're going to take your phone calls.
Rick's waiting patiently in Chicago. Um, we're going to talk
to Theresa in Miami, and then, uh, Shanay is in, uh, Illinois.
Plus your phone calls 800 525 7000. I'm Rob West.
(21:38):
This is Faith in finance live right here on Moody Radio,
helping you see God as your ultimate treasure and managing
money as a faithful steward. A lot more to come
just around the corner. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
(22:03):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
Finance Live taking your calls and questions. We've got room
for you. If you have a financial question today on
any topic, call right now 800 525 7000. Again, that's
800 525 7000. Let's head to those phones. Rick is
waiting patiently in Chicago. Go ahead sir.
S4 (22:22):
Hi, Rob. I have a question. Uh, what is a
real estate investment trust entrust and how does it work?
Especially in, uh, what can I say in a well, well, well,
see our retirement fund.
S1 (22:35):
Yeah, yeah. Great question. So a REIT, a real estate
investment trust REIT for short, allows you basically, uh, Rick,
to invest in real estate like apartments and shopping centers
or office buildings without owning property directly. So they trade
like stocks and they have to, uh, pay out at
(22:55):
least 90% of taxable income as dividends. So they are
known for creating steady income. So it's for people that
want to be diversified and diversified, not just among, you know,
large cap, small cap, international domestic stocks, but diversifying among
asset classes. So out of stocks and bonds into real estate,
(23:17):
but without the hassle, I'll say. Or the capital requirements
to invest directly. They're using these real estate investment trusts
and many people who own them, like the idea of
having that dividend income that you know, they're using to
either supplement their portfolio, or maybe it's a part of
the income that they're living on now in an IRA.
(23:38):
I would say a REIT can be a good fit
because their dividends are usually taxed as ordinary income. So
by holding them in a tax deferred traditional IRA, you
avoid that. Well, essentially delay that tax bite because you're
not paying any taxes on it. As those dividends are
(23:58):
paid into the IRA, you'll just pay the tax as
income when you take it out down the road, unless
you take it out by way of a qualified charitable
distribution after age 70. And then you never pay any tax.
But most of the time, at some point you will
pay the tax or your heirs will as you take
them out. So bottom line, REITs offer diversification, they offer income.
(24:21):
And an IRA, I would say is a smart place
to hold them for tax efficiency. Is that helpful, though?
S4 (24:27):
Yeah. Do they, uh, do they a decrease in value
over time?
S1 (24:33):
Uh, yes they can. Um, you know, so it really
depends upon, uh, you know, what is owned, uh, inside
the REIT. Uh, you know, just, you know, really depends
on what's going on in the, in the real estate market. Um,
you know, they don't automatically decrease over time, but like
any investment, they go up, they go down. And it
would be based on instead of, you know, the the
(24:55):
sales and earnings and the overall market for stocks. Uh,
it would be based on the real estate market based
on interest rates and then to some degree, management performance.
But I would say overall they're considered stable investments. Um,
not guaranteed to grow but but usually offer appreciation over time. Uh,
(25:20):
and steady income.
S4 (25:22):
Okay. Because Cause I've seen some for, um, office rights,
for health care rights and for mortgage rates.
S1 (25:30):
Yeah, yeah. All there's all kinds. And so it really
just depends upon, uh, you know, what you're looking for, um,
in terms of what you might buy. But, you know,
the big three categories are equity REIT's, where they own
and operate income producing real estate. So that would be apartments, offices,
shopping centers. That's the most common. And you earn through
(25:53):
the rent and the property appreciation that again is paid
out in the form of dividend. The other big classification
would be mortgage REITs. So these invest in real estate
debt basically mortgages. They are more sensitive to interest rates
and can be riskier but often pay higher dividends because
with that more elevated risk comes typically an elevated potential
(26:15):
for return. And then you've got hybrid REITs. That's the
mix of the equity and the mortgage. Those are kind
of the big categories.
S4 (26:24):
Okay. Well, thank you very much.
S1 (26:26):
All right. You're welcome. Rick. Call any time if I
can help you in any way. Let's go to Miami, Florida. Hi, Teresa.
Go right ahead.
S5 (26:34):
Hi, there. Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it.
S1 (26:38):
Absolutely.
S5 (26:40):
Um, I'm just in a little pickle. I, uh, we
purchased a house six years ago. Uh, we have about
160,000 still left on it, but didn't really realize that.
I guess we needed to start upgrading and do repairs
and stuff on the house as we go along. So
now we're at the point where, uh, a lot of
(27:01):
stuff needs to be fixed, like the roof, the air
conditioners starting to slow down. And actually, we have a
pool as well, um, that needs some, some repairs. So
I was wondering if it would be a good idea
if we sold the house. Um, got the equity from
the house. Um, to purchase in a 55 year old community. Yeah.
(27:25):
With the 200,000 that we would probably, uh, be able
to have extra after we pay off the $160,000 mortgage. Um,
just to not have, you know, those repairs overhead and
everything will be basically paid in full, and then we
can take the 3000 to do, you know, like pay off.
We have about a $30,000 worth of credit cards.
S1 (27:45):
Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Yeah, that certainly could be a
smart move. So you're down, potentially downsizing your your expenses
and simplifying your life and avoiding having to, you know,
the upkeep depending on what you buy. And hopefully it's
in a, in a better state. Um, so, you know,
I think the questions or the things to consider will be,
you know, what the new housing will cost if you
(28:07):
buy something and is there an upfront cost to buy
into this community, or is it, uh, you know, you're just,
you know, responsible for the home and the HOA, but
you need to understand the true cost Most of what
it will take to get into it. And then based
on that, how much equity will you keep after selling
and paying off the mortgage? And then once you buy in,
(28:27):
are you going to have any kind of cushion left
after the move? And if the goal is really just
to get out from under having any mortgage, can you
truly do that just based on what you'll net from
the sale and then what it will actually cost for
you to get in to this new 55 plus community
and paying off your debt. Now, if you could accomplish
(28:48):
all those things, you know, essentially you've you've cut your costs,
your your lifestyle spending, because now you only have the
property taxes and the homeowner's insurance, potentially. Um, plus you
may have a higher HOA in one of these communities.
So you need to understand what that is. But if
you've gotten rid of your debt, you've lowered your overall
(29:08):
housing category spending because now you don't have a mortgage
and that allows you to balance your budget, have some margin,
build up an emergency fund and be able to, you know, more, um,
you know, appropriately, um, you know, maintain your lifestyle without
it being just a constant burden on you. Then I
would say, you know, that's a good idea. I would
(29:29):
just do your homework to make sure you know you're
truly going to end up in the situation you you
are expecting to. Does that make sense?
S5 (29:37):
Yes it does. And I appreciate all your help and
and information.
S1 (29:42):
Absolutely. Theresa, thank you for your call today. We appreciate
you being on the program. Folks, if you'd like to
be a part of the broadcast today, we'd love to
have you. We've got one more segment coming up right
after this next break, we're going to head to Illinois
and talk to Shanay. We're going to talk to Randy
in Florida and perhaps your call as well. I've got
room for maybe 1 or 2 more calls before we
round out the broadcast. Today. That number to call is
(30:04):
800 525 7000. Again, that's 800 525 7000. As we
head into this next break, let me just mention, uh,
faith and finance live is listener supported. Just simply means
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(30:27):
or out and about doing some errands or maybe at home. Uh,
you listen regularly, you've found something to apply in your
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A partner support us at $35 a month or more.
They give us, uh, one time, 400 or more per year.
And as a way of saying thanks, we'll send you
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(30:50):
as all of our new studies and devotionals and pro
access to the app. Go to Faith partner. Thanks for
joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West,
he's Jerry Boyer. That means it's Friday. Jerry's here with his, uh,
(31:10):
market commentary. Jerry, where shall we start today? we could
talk about tariffs on gold. We could talk about the IRS.
And I guess we've got Commissioner on his way out today.
I don't know what's on your mind.
S6 (31:24):
Uh, the gold one and the I'll take door number one.
S1 (31:28):
Gold.
S6 (31:29):
Tariffs and door number three. Commissioner. Uh, BLS Commissioner. Uh,
on the outs.
S1 (31:36):
Okay. Go ahead.
S6 (31:39):
Uh, I this is this is one of these things
where you have all these executive orders, like flying out
all the time, uh, where, you know, we have a
tariff on Switzerland, uh, 39%, uh, while Switzerland exports a
lot of gold. Uh, they're not the gold miners. I mean,
Switzerland is a financial hub, right? So they're exporting gold
(32:01):
to the United States. People buy gold in the US
that comes through Switzerland. Uh, and it looks like the
president didn't mean to to tariff gold. So he says
he's going to do they're going to do an executive
order to clear up misinformation, but I don't think it's
a misinformation problem. I think the president said, we're going
to we're going to tariff everything coming from Switzerland at 39%,
(32:23):
and we get a lot of gold from Switzerland. I mean,
we just did the math. Um, so it's not a
misinformation issue. I think it is when you're just churning
out executive orders all the time, uh, you're going to
get a lot of unintended consequences. So whatever you think
about tariffs and trade wars and protectionism, it's usually about
(32:43):
goods and services. So the idea is, hey, we're buying
these cheap smartphones from China now it's more from India.
That's not good. We should make smartphones here in the
United States. We can debate about that. Or we should
make the sneakers here or whatever. But we're not really
consuming gold. Uh, gold is basically an investment. It's a hedge. Yes.
(33:05):
We use it for jewelry, but that's not mainly what
it's used for. Yeah, we use a little bit in electronics,
but it's mainly just gold bars that we hold as
a hedge against the dollar. So did we really mean
to tariff that? Do we want to not have American
investors be able to buy physical gold, which, by the way,
listen to conservative talk radio and we're not selling a
(33:27):
whole lot other than physical gold in those ads on
the breaks. Um, and, uh, you know, do we really
mean to to stop that? Probably not. So now we're
going to have another executive order, which is going to
clarify that now gold was already up. Gold was already
up because, uh, it's more likely that the fed is
(33:47):
going to debase the currency more to to increase the
money supply, which is usually described as, quote, lowering the
interest rates. They don't technically lower the interest rates. They
technically create new money until interest rates fall in response
to that. But the mechanism they have is create new money,
destroy new money. That's all they really do. They don't
(34:08):
have any like direct control over interest rates. Now why?
Why were the. Why is it expected that they're going
to create new money? Well the president's been pushing for that,
but it seemed like Powell was going to hold tough
on that. Um, so why why is that shifted? Well,
because the jobs picture has really degraded a lot. There
was a revision of a lot of the jobs report,
(34:31):
and this is how we get from door number one
to door number three. Uh, with the gold prices and
the BLS commissioner leaving. Uh, there were some really pretty
good jobs reports earlier this month. And as you recall,
I was a little surprised by how good they were. Right.
Because we had a trade war and we're deporting hundreds
(34:51):
of thousands of people. So and as a general rule,
when you're kicking hundreds of thousands of people out of
the workforce and you're decreasing demand for goods and services,
you don't create 200,000 jobs in a month. Well, the
Bureau of Labor Statistics comes out with preliminary numbers on
how many jobs we created, then they kind of crunch
through the numbers more. They wait for data to come
(35:12):
in from the states, and then they crunch the numbers
and then they revise it. Well, they all revised down. Uh,
the president's response was, well, we need to fire the
Bureau of Labor Statistics head. Um, you know, because obviously
these numbers are wrong. I see, I don't think those
numbers were wrong. So why don't I think those numbers
were wrong? Well, number one, they make sense if you're
(35:35):
doing a lot of deporting. Isn't the point to put, uh,
illegal immigrants out of jobs? Well, okay. Well, if it is,
then that's decreasing those jobs, right? I mean, mathematically, it
has to be that way. Well, you say, yeah, to
put Americans in. Yeah, but that doesn't happen instantly. You
don't you don't kick out an illegal alien from a
(35:56):
Tyson's plant. Uh, and then the next day and Americans
on that job. Right. There's if it ever happens, there's
months of delay. Uh, so you kick a lot of
people out of those jobs, then you're going to decrease
the number of jobs. So it's not surprising the jobs
picture was bad. The other thing is there's a whole
bunch of things that are kind of calculated along alongside.
(36:18):
And they're not under the Bureau of Labor Statistics. So
it can't be that BLS commissioner. That's the problem you have.
The ADP has a private service where they calculate the
number of jobs. There's the challenger gray Christmas survey, there's
the ISM indexes where they're asking service providers, you know,
service providers and manufacturers what's going on on the job
side you have you have new jobless claims, you know,
(36:42):
which that's that data comes from the state doesn't come
from Bureau of Labor Statistics or anyone in the federal government.
And basically all of those others were pointing downwards. In
terms of the jobs picture, the Bureau of Labor Statistics
was the outlier by showing strong jobs growth. So BLS
just they went back, they revised, and they're kind of
more in line with everybody else. And you're also in
(37:03):
line with basic common sense, which is if you have
a trade war, you're slowing down. Remember, in the first
three months with the economy contracted. So I don't know
how we could think that the first part of this
year we had really job, great jobs, growth when you
had a contracting economy and throwing a lot of illegal
aliens out of jobs, I'm not going to argue whether
we should have thrown them out of jobs or not.
(37:24):
All I'm going to say is, if you do that,
that's a minus sign in front of those jobs. Uh, and, uh,
you know, it has it has a real world effect. Now,
maybe the president's right. Eventually Americans will take those jobs
and everything will be great. Fine. But that's an adjustment period.
Seems to me the Bureau of Labor Statistics was basically right. Uh,
so that's door number one and door number three.
S1 (37:45):
All right. Sounds good. So door number two. And then
we'll talk for a second about corporate engagement is just
the tariffs themselves. And perhaps to the extent the president
is taking his cues from the market. And we know
that's at least one of the things he's watching. Uh,
you know, he's getting it seems a little bit more
cavalier about imposing these very high tariffs on select countries.
(38:10):
And he's watching you know the S&P 500 is right
at its all time high. The Nasdaq today is at
a new all time high. And so basically the market
is giving him the green light. Is that right.
S6 (38:21):
Yeah. Well I think that the all time highs are
largely because he's mostly backed off from those very high tariffs.
So the president says look look look how high the
markets are. That's my tariffs. Well wait a second. When
he was imposing the very high tariffs the markets were
melting off. We went into a full official correction. Then
(38:43):
he came forward and said oh oh well we're making
deals and we're now rolling back a lot of those
tariff increases. So to me it's really hard to argue
that the tariffs are a helper here. Um, I think
his adjustment to reality where he went with a lot,
you know, kind of lower tariffs I think is probably
the helper. Well you can say well yeah but he
(39:04):
did these high tariffs on Switzerland. Well okay. We don't
buy a lot of I mean chocolate is not a
major driver of GDP. Okay. Yeah. Aside from the gold
bars which by the way that's not a major driver
of GDP either. You know we don't do that much
with Swiss. Almost all of our business with Switzerland is
not is not goods and services. It's financial services, which
is not a tariff type product. So that that high
(39:27):
tariff on Switzerland wasn't really going to affect much, except
it accidentally seemed to have affected gold bars. And the
president is saying, oops, not what we meant. So, you know,
we're not going to a high tax on the tiny
country of Switzerland is not going to affect trade balances
on much other than already completed chocolate. Uh, so that's
not really a big driver. So I'd say the high
(39:49):
markets are largely because the president adjusted to reality and
mostly rolled back his trade war.
S1 (39:54):
Yeah. Interesting. That's very helpful. All right, Jerry, let's pivot
here for a second. Yeah. Go ahead.
S6 (39:59):
Sorry. And also because the low the poorly performing jobs
market makes it more likely the fed is going to
do monetary stimulus. They follow the jobs market more closely
than anything. They think the labor market is deteriorating. So
the odds of of a of increasing the money supply
have increased. So some of this some of the high
(40:20):
stock market is good news. Trade war is going to
be a lot smaller. Uh, you know, it's going to
be Falklands not World War two. Uh, and so but
part of it is are the Fed's going to put the, the,
the gas on because the labor market is not doing well.
S1 (40:35):
That's helpful. Corporate engagement. I mean, what a lot of
our listeners may not realize is, Jerry, it doesn't take
much in the way of of ownership to have a
voice into these companies. You're one of those leading voices
helping investors and ministries and and even states in some cases, uh,
vote their values before these companies. Just give us a
(40:59):
thumbnail sketch of what is it, and then what are
some of the big wins as of late?
S6 (41:05):
Uh, what it is, is if you own shares in
a company. Now, this doesn't apply. If you use an
ETF or a mutual fund, then you're giving away your vote. Uh,
so be careful who you choose as your ETF or
mutual fund, because the vast majority of them are going
to weaponize your money against you if you're a Christian
and that's your worldview. They're going to be weaponizing your
money against you. Not all of them. Uh, but the
vast majority of them. Uh, but if you own yourself,
(41:27):
then you can put proposals on the ballot, and we
help with that. Now, we generally work with financial advisors,
not just individual investors or with ministries. We can work
with the church or, you know, a ministry, etc., uh,
to put proposals on the ballot. And you think, oh,
I'm not a big Wall Street person. If you own
$2,000 worth for three years, you can put a proposal
on the ballot. That's all it takes. Um, and people
(41:49):
who disagree with our values have been dominating this process, uh, for, uh,
30 years. And our side is just starting to get involved. Uh,
just to hit a highlight last week. This has not
hit the news yet at all. Uh, we helped someone
put a proposal with Microsoft. Microsoft has a discount program.
(42:09):
I hear the music. Um, you know, for non-profits, except
if you're a crisis pregnancy center, you don't get the
nonprofit discount. Why? Because you don't fit their definition of
reproductive services. You only get counted as providing reproductive services
if no actual reproduction occurs. That's nuts. It has to stop.
S1 (42:30):
Wow. Well, that's the kind of corporate engagement that's going
on from Jerry and his team. And we always love
to hear those updates. Jerry. Thanks for your time today, buddy.
S6 (42:39):
Thank you. God bless.
S1 (42:40):
All right. Bless you as well, folks. Thanks for being
along with us. Faith and Finance Live is a partnership
between Moody Radio and Faith by Shanay and Randy. Let's
get you scheduled for another call. Stay right there. Big
thanks to my team today. We'll see you next time.
Bye bye.
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes.
But a wise man listens to advice. Proverbs 1215. I
am Rob West. Wise financial decisions don't happen in a vacuum.
They often require wise counsel. But how do you know
if the person giving you advice shares your convictions and values?
Brian Cochran joins us today to explore how biblical wisdom
(00:29):
should shape not just our decisions, but the voices we trust.
Then it's on to your calls at 800, 500, 25, 7000.
That's 805, two five, 7000. This is faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, it's a pleasure
(00:49):
to welcome my friend Brian Cochran to the program. He's
a certified financial planner and a certified Kingdom advisor, serves
as the chief stewardship officer at John Moore Associates. Brian,
great to have you here.
S2 (01:02):
Yeah. So excited to be with you, Rob.
S1 (01:04):
Brian, I know the team at John Moore recently celebrated
an incredible milestone that is over $50 million given to
those in need through your client's charitable giving, which is
just incredible. And that's not just impressive. It's a powerful
reflection of the mission there at John Moore Associates. Many
(01:25):
financial advisors focus on helping clients grow their wealth, which
of course isn't a bad thing. Money is a good
gift from the Lord. But as a certified Kingdom advisor,
you're also focused on helping your clients give more of
it away. So I'd love to start there. Can you
expand more on what sets you apart as a k-a?
S2 (01:44):
Yeah, it has a lot to do with our why.
Our purpose for being as a business. As individual planners
and our team. We have 15 folks that work with us, Rob,
that are all aligned in our mission, which is to
walk alongside the families we serve, helping them become wise
and generous stewards. So rather than just try to be
a profitable business or to make a living as individuals,
(02:07):
we feel we're called to influence the families we serve
in ways that guide them to better money. Decisions based
on what the Bible says is wise when it comes
to wealth and finance, but also to help them become generous.
And that $50 million number you mentioned is a reflection
of that.
S1 (02:24):
Yeah, there's no doubt about it. And I love that
you mentioned this is a calling. You know, you're a
financial pastor of sorts. And because we know money issues
are hard issues, which gives you an amazing opportunity. And
I love that you're so clear for you and your
team on what that looks like as you engage with clients. Now,
you've said before, Brian, that financial planning is more art
(02:45):
than science. That may catch some folks off guard, so
I'd love for you to unpack that a bit.
S2 (02:50):
Yeah, I think people believe because we're dealing with money
and numbers, that it's all technical, that we're all just
a bunch of nerds sitting with pocket protectors and, you know, and,
you know, crunching numbers and doing calculations and following the
markets and trading. But there's so much of what we
do as financial pastors, if you will, or financial planners
(03:12):
that go beyond the math side of a financial plan.
You know, that's the the taxes, the investment returns, the
laws and regulations. Those all matter. But the actual advice
you receive from a financial planner and a certified Kingdom
advisor is largely driven by the values, the priorities, and
the personal convictions of that planner. So that's where the
(03:33):
the art part comes in is. You're going to see
a different result based on those values of the person
across the table. And so in a sense, you could
sit down with ten different financial advisors, and one family
could go to ten different offices and see ten different
results in terms of the financial planning recommendations, based on
the preferences and values of that financial planning team.
S1 (03:56):
Yeah, that's well said. I mean, at the heart of it, Brian,
as believers, there's really a deeper purpose at work here,
isn't there?
S2 (04:02):
Exactly. And I think what's important for us to remember
is that we are stewards. We're managing God's money. So
if we're enlisting someone like a financial planner or a
tax advisor to help us be wise in our financial decisions,
it's not just about what we want, but we're trying
to meet God's expectations for what he's given us to manage.
(04:23):
And so we're in a stewardship role. And we often
say as financial planners, we're the stewards of the stewards.
We're trying to help people make good decisions with their
piece of God's portfolio. And you have to ask yourself,
does this person, does this advisor understand what I believe
about money and why it matters to me? And, you know,
is my financial planner really going to help me reflect
(04:45):
God's will and God's purpose for these resources? Or is
this just about making more money?
S1 (04:51):
Mhm. Wow. Yeah. If you're a steward of stewards, you
know you're going to give an account someday to not
only what God has entrusted to you financially, but also
with your clients. And I know that's something that weighs
heavy on your heart. And I love how you all
live that out there at the firm. Well, we're going
to take a quick break and we come back more
with Brian Cochran today. What does it look like in
(05:12):
terms of the questions you might ask as you interview
an advisor or engage with an advisor who shares your values?
And how does this play out in day to day life?
Much more just around the corner. We'll be right back.
Don't go anywhere. Thanks for joining us today on Faith
(05:34):
and Finance Live. I'm Rob West with me today. My
friend Brian Cochran. He's a certified financial planner and a
certified Kingdom advisor. And he serves as the chief stewardship
officer at John Moore and Associates. And boy, it's a
delight to have Brian here as we talk about the
role of a certified Kingdom advisor who's really on mission,
who's approaching the advice relationship through the lens of stewardship.
(05:58):
And one evidence of that is the firm just celebrated
over $50 million given to causes on the heart of
God through their clients charitable giving. And that is something
that we just celebrate here today and I think is
a great picture of really the work of a certified
Kingdom advisor, because at its core, Brian, uh, an advisor
(06:20):
may look at that and say, wait a minute, that's
$50 million. You could have been managing and therefore charging
fees on. Right?
S2 (06:27):
Yeah, it's it's God's economy, though, because our business has
tripled in the time that we help clients give those
dollars away. So we didn't help clients be generous because
we thought it would grow our business. But I think
God's continue to bless our firm and the families we
serve as we've walked many, many families through this journey
of generosity.
S1 (06:47):
Well, Brian, before the break, we were talking about the
deeper purpose at work when you engage with clients well
beyond the numbers into hard issues and really the intersection
of values and our faith and the decisions that you're
guiding clients to make. Give us a picture of how
that disconnect might show up in real life.
S2 (07:07):
Yeah. Unfortunately, we've seen this happen, and we've heard many
stories from friends in the industry. One example from the
generosity side, we were just talking about charitable giving and
how we encourage the families we serve to be generous. Um,
but we've heard examples and I've seen a few examples myself,
where we build a generosity strategy and help a client
give maybe more than they've ever given. And we actually
(07:30):
might face pushback from a tax advisor or an attorney
who doesn't really understand the heart of the client and
can't make sense of why someone would be so generous. Um,
so they're actually saying, well, are you sure you want
to give all that money away to these nonprofits, to
these ministries? Um, and they just don't follow The thought
process and the heart of the client. And sometimes they
(07:52):
actually can get in the way of the process and
slow it down. So if they're not sort of with you,
that could be a chance that they're working against you
and your generosity journey. Another example we see a lot
as part of our role is to help people manage
their investments, is we see people show up who've worked
with advisors for years. That could be very competent advisors.
(08:13):
But we also unpack the client's portfolio and find out
many of the investments that they've chosen, um, or the
advisors chosen for them, if you will, um, might not
reflect the client's values. So maybe they're investing in companies
that profit from alcohol sales or abortion or pornography. Um,
and the clients are a little disappointed or even appalled
(08:33):
to find out that they've been participating with these companies.
So the things you own and you invest in can
differ based on the planner you're working with. And you
want to make sure that's aligned. Um, and so really,
it's just all these things can steer you in directions
that don't align with your faith and your values. Um,
often without you knowing, you know, we really rely on
(08:53):
these professionals to give us good advice and and guide
us in ways that are wise and prudent. Um, but
if they're not aligned with your values, they might be
taking you a direction you did not intend.
S1 (09:03):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think one of the
biggest barriers to God's people doing something significant for God
financially is often the financial advisor. You know, the Lord
lays something really big on their hearts. They walk into
the advisor's office and he or she says, you don't
want to do that. And they don't. And I think
that really underscores the difference here around an advisor who
(09:25):
understands the heart of God and the counsel of Scripture
and can really journey with you through these really critical
stewardship decisions. So let's talk about how then that conversation changes. Brian,
when your advisor does share your values, what does that
look like?
S2 (09:41):
Yeah the values alignment strong. Rob. It should feel different.
You should feel a connection there and a stronger relationship.
But also it should impact the actual advice you receive.
For example, on this topic of generosity, rather than an
advisor questioning your giving, or maybe not even discussing generosity
at all, maybe your financial advisor and your tax advisor
become cheerleaders for you that celebrate your giving with you,
(10:05):
or in some cases challenge you in your giving and saying,
you know, you seem to have capacity to give more.
Why aren't you being more generous at this time? Or
what opportunities are there to be more generous? That's one
thing we work with a lot with the families we
serve is we're always on the hunt for those families
that maybe are already giving, but don't understand how great
(10:25):
their capacity is to be generous and that they can
afford to do so. So we're actually pushing clients and
challenging them in their giving in a way that's productive. Um,
and a big thing we see that changes a lot
in our conversations is changing from a accumulation attitude of just,
you know, the goal is always more money Yes, to
(10:45):
a real sense of purpose that starts with contentment and
understanding how much is enough, which is a very uncommon
conversation in our culture, but also in the offices of
financial planners. So if we can talk more about contentment,
rather than always buying faster cars and bigger houses, it
tends to lead to a whole different set of decision
making and more satisfaction, more joy. We know that from Scripture.
(11:08):
That's what we should expect. And then when it comes
to the investing side, rather than just investing as everyone
else does, maybe looking at companies and strategies that reflect
God's principles and and investing in companies or funds that
really reflect the client's values and then helping them understand
the benefits of that. So they become, in many cases,
more excited about their investing and more engaged with a
(11:32):
strong sense of ownership of what they're buying with their
investments so that they they feel empowered there. And they
know with confidence that they're not supporting things that are
counter to their values.
S1 (11:44):
Mhm. Yeah that's really helpful. Uh, Brian, if someone's looking
for an advisor and really wants to begin to have
this conversation to ensure they share the same Christian values,
what would be some questions that they should ask.
S2 (11:57):
Yeah, that's a great question, Rob. Um, so try to
keep it very open ended. Um, yeah. And I like
to start with values. All of us make decisions based
on our values, whether we've ever actually documented our values
and and thought about it. So the first question could be,
what are your firm's core values or you as an individual,
what are your core values as a financial advisor? And
(12:19):
then let them share? You know, for us, it's simple.
We know our values. We talk about them every week
with our team. So everybody on our crew is prepared
to answer that question with conviction and then ask, how
do those values show up in the way you serve clients?
So one of our values is generosity. And we talked
Rob about we track how much our clients give. That's
one way it shows up. And then we talk about
(12:40):
generosity with every family we serve. And then how do
they define success for a client? What does a successful
client relationship look like for their firm? That's a really
good one, because if success for them is just that
they're beating the market or, you know, they're seeing more
clients or they're seeing client assets grow, those are good metrics.
(13:00):
But is there something that defines success for them that's
aligned with your definition of success? Yeah. It's always also good, Rob,
to ask about compensation. You know, how are they paid.
Are they paid based on the assets they manage based
on products they sell, based on that time they spend
with you? Uh, and then in line with that, are
there any conflicts of interest in how they're compensated or
(13:21):
in the investments they choose for you? And then I
think as a believer, you should be bold and very
direct and just say, how will your advice support and
strengthen my faith?
S1 (13:30):
That's really helpful. But what about somebody who's already working
with an advisor and is starting to feel some tension?
Maybe their values don't line up any longer, or maybe
they never did. What do they do?
S2 (13:41):
Yeah. Changing advisors is hard. So that's a tough decision, Rob.
But I think you can ask a lot of those
same questions. And if you don't get the answers you
feel are appropriate, it may be time to go to
that search page and find a Kingdom advisor who can
better align with your values.
S1 (13:57):
Yeah, I think a key idea here is this is
God's money and your advisor works for you. And so
having this values alignment could be a game changer. Brian,
thanks for your time today, my friend.
S2 (14:07):
Yeah. My pleasure.
S1 (14:08):
That certified Financial planner and Certified Kingdom advisor Brian Cochran
with John Moore Associates. If you want to find an
advisor who shares your values, go to. Com and click
Find a Professional. That's faith. Click find a professional. We'll
be right back.
S3 (14:32):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:55):
Why so much fun to have Brian Cochran in the
studio today? Brian is just a wonderful man who's chasing
after the Lord and serving clients so well as he
leads John Moore Associates. And I'll tell you, the team
that he leads is just incredible. And I love the
picture that he paints of an advisor journeying alongside his
(15:19):
or her client and cheering them on as they serve
the Lord. And they use God's money for God's glory
with their advisor in lockstep. And in fact, as Brian said,
and in some cases even challenging them to step out
in faith and to hear the voice of the Lord
as they perhaps do some scary giving along the way
(15:39):
as they give sacrificially. Uh, you know, that's a game
changer when you have an advisor who can give wise,
competent financial counsel, but also understand the counsel of Scripture
and be able to bring that biblical worldview to bear.
So if you'd like to find a Ka in your area,
there are more than 1800 of them across the US
and Canada. Just go to our website, Philly.com. Well, you'll
(16:03):
just click and then click, uh, is what I meant
to say. Find a professional right at the top of
the page. Faith Philly.com. Click find a professional. All right.
In just a moment, we're going to begin taking your
phone calls today. We want to hear what's on your
mind and address whatever specific issues you have going on.
So if you have a financial question on any topic today,
(16:23):
go ahead and call right now. That number is 800
525 7000. Again that number is 800 525 7000. We
look forward to hearing from you. We do have some
lines open. They will fill up quickly. So now would
be the time to call because you'll get right through again.
800 525 7000. Uh, let me mention, though, um, I
(16:45):
would be remiss if I didn't say how grateful we
are here at Moody Radio for the incredible response we
saw to the 48 hours of impact as you gave
so generously to support, uh, Moody Aviation and the next
generation of missionary aviators, uh, flying and repairing and sharing
(17:07):
the gospel by way of plane and helicopter and doing
that to the ends of the earth. It's amazing to
see how you responded even above and beyond our goal. And, um,
we only have and will tell the impact of what
you're doing as you're releasing God's money back to him
by way of this incredible ministry. And so we're just
(17:29):
want to say thank you. Uh, those of you who
listen to faith and finance live here on Moody Radio.
I suspect as you live out a biblical worldview of
money and you hold God's money loosely, you're finding yourself
increasingly looking for ways to give because you just find
so much joy in it. And you want to be
able to to give as unto the Lord on the
(17:50):
things on the heart of God. And clearly the ministry
of God's Word preaching, teaching, discipleship, Bible translation, and yes,
Bible distribution, even in unreached people groups and in remote
parts of the world. That happens in part because of
aviators on the mission field. And Moody aviation is one
of the gold standards in terms of training those mechanics
(18:13):
and pilots. So we are so thankful for your involvement. Listen,
we'll begin taking your phone calls here in just a moment.
The lines are the calls are coming in right now,
but we have room for you. 800 525 7000. In
the news today, criminals are increasingly targeting older Americans retirement
and financial accounts through imposter scams, according to the FTC.
(18:35):
Here's how the scams work. Scammers invent a fake crisis
and pose as trusted representatives from banks and major companies
like Amazon or Apple or Microsoft. They also um and
will pose as government agencies as well. So think the
Social Security Administration or the Federal Trade Commission. Now victims
(18:58):
are told to transfer money to, quote, protect it or
for another false reason. And losses can drain your entire
life savings, including a 401 K account. Here's the numbers
on this. Losses of $100,000 or more among victims 60
and older jumped from 55,000,000 in 2020 to 450,000,000 in 2024.
(19:24):
That's a 700% increase. Overall, elder fraud losses reached 700,000,000
100,000,000 in 2024. That's up from 122 million just four
years prior. So here's the tips that the Federal Trade
Commission would offer to you to avoid the imposter scams. First,
don't ever move money to, quote, protect it. That's a
(19:48):
scam tactic. Second, verify verify verify before acting. Use official
contact info. Never numbers from pop ups or texts or emails.
If you get a call from somebody claiming to be
from a government agency, just very politely say, I'm going
to get off the phone now. Thank you for calling.
(20:09):
Hang up. And if you are wondering whether that's legitimate,
you go source the phone number for that government agency
and call them directly, and you initiate that call and
you can find out if there's anything legitimate there. And
then third block unwanted calls. So use the carrier call
blocking tools. These are becoming more and more sophisticated. They're
(20:31):
easier to use than ever on your smartphone, or even
if you have a home phone still. In 2024, the
FTC received 8269 reports from adults 60 and older, losing
at least $10,000 to these scams. That's up 362%. So
this is running rampant. Be aware of it. And if
(20:53):
there's a a senior in your life, maybe a parent
or a grandparent that you want to make aware of this,
let them know that these imposter scams are on the rise.
Perhaps you just tipping them off to that might raise
a red flag so that the next time it happens,
they may, uh, not give out their personal information or
take action when asked. Stop in their tracks and then
(21:16):
tell somebody or initiate the call directly to verify its authenticity.
I hope that helps. Listen, we're going to take a break.
When we come back, we're going to take your phone calls.
Rick's waiting patiently in Chicago. Um, we're going to talk
to Theresa in Miami, and then, uh, Shanay is in, uh, Illinois.
Plus your phone calls 800 525 7000. I'm Rob West.
(21:38):
This is Faith in finance live right here on Moody Radio,
helping you see God as your ultimate treasure and managing
money as a faithful steward. A lot more to come
just around the corner. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
(22:03):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
Finance Live taking your calls and questions. We've got room
for you. If you have a financial question today on
any topic, call right now 800 525 7000. Again, that's
800 525 7000. Let's head to those phones. Rick is
waiting patiently in Chicago. Go ahead sir.
S4 (22:22):
Hi, Rob. I have a question. Uh, what is a
real estate investment trust entrust and how does it work?
Especially in, uh, what can I say in a well, well, well,
see our retirement fund.
S1 (22:35):
Yeah, yeah. Great question. So a REIT, a real estate
investment trust REIT for short, allows you basically, uh, Rick,
to invest in real estate like apartments and shopping centers
or office buildings without owning property directly. So they trade
like stocks and they have to, uh, pay out at
(22:55):
least 90% of taxable income as dividends. So they are
known for creating steady income. So it's for people that
want to be diversified and diversified, not just among, you know,
large cap, small cap, international domestic stocks, but diversifying among
asset classes. So out of stocks and bonds into real estate,
(23:17):
but without the hassle, I'll say. Or the capital requirements
to invest directly. They're using these real estate investment trusts
and many people who own them, like the idea of
having that dividend income that you know, they're using to
either supplement their portfolio, or maybe it's a part of
the income that they're living on now in an IRA.
(23:38):
I would say a REIT can be a good fit
because their dividends are usually taxed as ordinary income. So
by holding them in a tax deferred traditional IRA, you
avoid that. Well, essentially delay that tax bite because you're
not paying any taxes on it. As those dividends are
(23:58):
paid into the IRA, you'll just pay the tax as
income when you take it out down the road, unless
you take it out by way of a qualified charitable
distribution after age 70. And then you never pay any tax.
But most of the time, at some point you will
pay the tax or your heirs will as you take
them out. So bottom line, REITs offer diversification, they offer income.
(24:21):
And an IRA, I would say is a smart place
to hold them for tax efficiency. Is that helpful, though?
S4 (24:27):
Yeah. Do they, uh, do they a decrease in value
over time?
S1 (24:33):
Uh, yes they can. Um, you know, so it really
depends upon, uh, you know, what is owned, uh, inside
the REIT. Uh, you know, just, you know, really depends
on what's going on in the, in the real estate market. Um,
you know, they don't automatically decrease over time, but like
any investment, they go up, they go down. And it
would be based on instead of, you know, the the
(24:55):
sales and earnings and the overall market for stocks. Uh,
it would be based on the real estate market based
on interest rates and then to some degree, management performance.
But I would say overall they're considered stable investments. Um,
not guaranteed to grow but but usually offer appreciation over time. Uh,
(25:20):
and steady income.
S4 (25:22):
Okay. Because Cause I've seen some for, um, office rights,
for health care rights and for mortgage rates.
S1 (25:30):
Yeah, yeah. All there's all kinds. And so it really
just depends upon, uh, you know, what you're looking for, um,
in terms of what you might buy. But, you know,
the big three categories are equity REIT's, where they own
and operate income producing real estate. So that would be apartments, offices,
shopping centers. That's the most common. And you earn through
(25:53):
the rent and the property appreciation that again is paid
out in the form of dividend. The other big classification
would be mortgage REITs. So these invest in real estate
debt basically mortgages. They are more sensitive to interest rates
and can be riskier but often pay higher dividends because
with that more elevated risk comes typically an elevated potential
(26:15):
for return. And then you've got hybrid REITs. That's the
mix of the equity and the mortgage. Those are kind
of the big categories.
S4 (26:24):
Okay. Well, thank you very much.
S1 (26:26):
All right. You're welcome. Rick. Call any time if I
can help you in any way. Let's go to Miami, Florida. Hi, Teresa.
Go right ahead.
S5 (26:34):
Hi, there. Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it.
S1 (26:38):
Absolutely.
S5 (26:40):
Um, I'm just in a little pickle. I, uh, we
purchased a house six years ago. Uh, we have about
160,000 still left on it, but didn't really realize that.
I guess we needed to start upgrading and do repairs
and stuff on the house as we go along. So
now we're at the point where, uh, a lot of
(27:01):
stuff needs to be fixed, like the roof, the air
conditioners starting to slow down. And actually, we have a
pool as well, um, that needs some, some repairs. So
I was wondering if it would be a good idea
if we sold the house. Um, got the equity from
the house. Um, to purchase in a 55 year old community. Yeah.
(27:25):
With the 200,000 that we would probably, uh, be able
to have extra after we pay off the $160,000 mortgage. Um,
just to not have, you know, those repairs overhead and
everything will be basically paid in full, and then we
can take the 3000 to do, you know, like pay off.
We have about a $30,000 worth of credit cards.
S1 (27:45):
Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Yeah, that certainly could be a
smart move. So you're down, potentially downsizing your your expenses
and simplifying your life and avoiding having to, you know,
the upkeep depending on what you buy. And hopefully it's
in a, in a better state. Um, so, you know,
I think the questions or the things to consider will be,
you know, what the new housing will cost if you
(28:07):
buy something and is there an upfront cost to buy
into this community, or is it, uh, you know, you're just,
you know, responsible for the home and the HOA, but
you need to understand the true cost Most of what
it will take to get into it. And then based
on that, how much equity will you keep after selling
and paying off the mortgage? And then once you buy in,
(28:27):
are you going to have any kind of cushion left
after the move? And if the goal is really just
to get out from under having any mortgage, can you
truly do that just based on what you'll net from
the sale and then what it will actually cost for
you to get in to this new 55 plus community
and paying off your debt. Now, if you could accomplish
(28:48):
all those things, you know, essentially you've you've cut your costs,
your your lifestyle spending, because now you only have the
property taxes and the homeowner's insurance, potentially. Um, plus you
may have a higher HOA in one of these communities.
So you need to understand what that is. But if
you've gotten rid of your debt, you've lowered your overall
(29:08):
housing category spending because now you don't have a mortgage
and that allows you to balance your budget, have some margin,
build up an emergency fund and be able to, you know, more, um,
you know, appropriately, um, you know, maintain your lifestyle without
it being just a constant burden on you. Then I
would say, you know, that's a good idea. I would
(29:29):
just do your homework to make sure you know you're
truly going to end up in the situation you you
are expecting to. Does that make sense?
S5 (29:37):
Yes it does. And I appreciate all your help and
and information.
S1 (29:42):
Absolutely. Theresa, thank you for your call today. We appreciate
you being on the program. Folks, if you'd like to
be a part of the broadcast today, we'd love to
have you. We've got one more segment coming up right
after this next break, we're going to head to Illinois
and talk to Shanay. We're going to talk to Randy
in Florida and perhaps your call as well. I've got
room for maybe 1 or 2 more calls before we
round out the broadcast. Today. That number to call is
(30:04):
800 525 7000. Again, that's 800 525 7000. As we
head into this next break, let me just mention, uh,
faith and finance live is listener supported. Just simply means
we bring you this broadcast every day as a result
of your support. So if you love the program, maybe
you listen by appointment as you're driving home from work
(30:27):
or out and about doing some errands or maybe at home. Uh,
you listen regularly, you've found something to apply in your
own life, or you've been encouraged to live as a
faithful steward. We'd invite you to become a faithful partner.
A partner support us at $35 a month or more.
They give us, uh, one time, 400 or more per year.
And as a way of saying thanks, we'll send you
four issues of our incredible magazine, Faithful Steward, as well
(30:50):
as all of our new studies and devotionals and pro
access to the app. Go to Faith partner. Thanks for
joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West,
he's Jerry Boyer. That means it's Friday. Jerry's here with his, uh,
(31:10):
market commentary. Jerry, where shall we start today? we could
talk about tariffs on gold. We could talk about the IRS.
And I guess we've got Commissioner on his way out today.
I don't know what's on your mind.
S6 (31:24):
Uh, the gold one and the I'll take door number one.
S1 (31:28):
Gold.
S6 (31:29):
Tariffs and door number three. Commissioner. Uh, BLS Commissioner. Uh,
on the outs.
S1 (31:36):
Okay. Go ahead.
S6 (31:39):
Uh, I this is this is one of these things
where you have all these executive orders, like flying out
all the time, uh, where, you know, we have a
tariff on Switzerland, uh, 39%, uh, while Switzerland exports a
lot of gold. Uh, they're not the gold miners. I mean,
Switzerland is a financial hub, right? So they're exporting gold
(32:01):
to the United States. People buy gold in the US
that comes through Switzerland. Uh, and it looks like the
president didn't mean to to tariff gold. So he says
he's going to do they're going to do an executive
order to clear up misinformation, but I don't think it's
a misinformation problem. I think the president said, we're going
to we're going to tariff everything coming from Switzerland at 39%,
(32:23):
and we get a lot of gold from Switzerland. I mean,
we just did the math. Um, so it's not a
misinformation issue. I think it is when you're just churning
out executive orders all the time, uh, you're going to
get a lot of unintended consequences. So whatever you think
about tariffs and trade wars and protectionism, it's usually about
(32:43):
goods and services. So the idea is, hey, we're buying
these cheap smartphones from China now it's more from India.
That's not good. We should make smartphones here in the
United States. We can debate about that. Or we should
make the sneakers here or whatever. But we're not really
consuming gold. Uh, gold is basically an investment. It's a hedge. Yes.
(33:05):
We use it for jewelry, but that's not mainly what
it's used for. Yeah, we use a little bit in electronics,
but it's mainly just gold bars that we hold as
a hedge against the dollar. So did we really mean
to tariff that? Do we want to not have American
investors be able to buy physical gold, which, by the way,
listen to conservative talk radio and we're not selling a
(33:27):
whole lot other than physical gold in those ads on
the breaks. Um, and, uh, you know, do we really
mean to to stop that? Probably not. So now we're
going to have another executive order, which is going to
clarify that now gold was already up. Gold was already
up because, uh, it's more likely that the fed is
(33:47):
going to debase the currency more to to increase the
money supply, which is usually described as, quote, lowering the
interest rates. They don't technically lower the interest rates. They
technically create new money until interest rates fall in response
to that. But the mechanism they have is create new money,
destroy new money. That's all they really do. They don't
(34:08):
have any like direct control over interest rates. Now why?
Why were the. Why is it expected that they're going
to create new money? Well the president's been pushing for that,
but it seemed like Powell was going to hold tough
on that. Um, so why why is that shifted? Well,
because the jobs picture has really degraded a lot. There
was a revision of a lot of the jobs report,
(34:31):
and this is how we get from door number one
to door number three. Uh, with the gold prices and
the BLS commissioner leaving. Uh, there were some really pretty
good jobs reports earlier this month. And as you recall,
I was a little surprised by how good they were. Right.
Because we had a trade war and we're deporting hundreds
(34:51):
of thousands of people. So and as a general rule,
when you're kicking hundreds of thousands of people out of
the workforce and you're decreasing demand for goods and services,
you don't create 200,000 jobs in a month. Well, the
Bureau of Labor Statistics comes out with preliminary numbers on
how many jobs we created, then they kind of crunch
through the numbers more. They wait for data to come
(35:12):
in from the states, and then they crunch the numbers
and then they revise it. Well, they all revised down. Uh,
the president's response was, well, we need to fire the
Bureau of Labor Statistics head. Um, you know, because obviously
these numbers are wrong. I see, I don't think those
numbers were wrong. So why don't I think those numbers
were wrong? Well, number one, they make sense if you're
(35:35):
doing a lot of deporting. Isn't the point to put, uh,
illegal immigrants out of jobs? Well, okay. Well, if it is,
then that's decreasing those jobs, right? I mean, mathematically, it
has to be that way. Well, you say, yeah, to
put Americans in. Yeah, but that doesn't happen instantly. You
don't you don't kick out an illegal alien from a
(35:56):
Tyson's plant. Uh, and then the next day and Americans
on that job. Right. There's if it ever happens, there's
months of delay. Uh, so you kick a lot of
people out of those jobs, then you're going to decrease
the number of jobs. So it's not surprising the jobs
picture was bad. The other thing is there's a whole
bunch of things that are kind of calculated along alongside.
(36:18):
And they're not under the Bureau of Labor Statistics. So
it can't be that BLS commissioner. That's the problem you have.
The ADP has a private service where they calculate the
number of jobs. There's the challenger gray Christmas survey, there's
the ISM indexes where they're asking service providers, you know,
service providers and manufacturers what's going on on the job
side you have you have new jobless claims, you know,
(36:42):
which that's that data comes from the state doesn't come
from Bureau of Labor Statistics or anyone in the federal government.
And basically all of those others were pointing downwards. In
terms of the jobs picture, the Bureau of Labor Statistics
was the outlier by showing strong jobs growth. So BLS
just they went back, they revised, and they're kind of
more in line with everybody else. And you're also in
(37:03):
line with basic common sense, which is if you have
a trade war, you're slowing down. Remember, in the first
three months with the economy contracted. So I don't know
how we could think that the first part of this
year we had really job, great jobs, growth when you
had a contracting economy and throwing a lot of illegal
aliens out of jobs, I'm not going to argue whether
we should have thrown them out of jobs or not.
(37:24):
All I'm going to say is, if you do that,
that's a minus sign in front of those jobs. Uh, and, uh,
you know, it has it has a real world effect. Now,
maybe the president's right. Eventually Americans will take those jobs
and everything will be great. Fine. But that's an adjustment period.
Seems to me the Bureau of Labor Statistics was basically right. Uh,
so that's door number one and door number three.
S1 (37:45):
All right. Sounds good. So door number two. And then
we'll talk for a second about corporate engagement is just
the tariffs themselves. And perhaps to the extent the president
is taking his cues from the market. And we know
that's at least one of the things he's watching. Uh,
you know, he's getting it seems a little bit more
cavalier about imposing these very high tariffs on select countries.
(38:10):
And he's watching you know the S&P 500 is right
at its all time high. The Nasdaq today is at
a new all time high. And so basically the market
is giving him the green light. Is that right.
S6 (38:21):
Yeah. Well I think that the all time highs are
largely because he's mostly backed off from those very high tariffs.
So the president says look look look how high the
markets are. That's my tariffs. Well wait a second. When
he was imposing the very high tariffs the markets were
melting off. We went into a full official correction. Then
(38:43):
he came forward and said oh oh well we're making
deals and we're now rolling back a lot of those
tariff increases. So to me it's really hard to argue
that the tariffs are a helper here. Um, I think
his adjustment to reality where he went with a lot,
you know, kind of lower tariffs I think is probably
the helper. Well you can say well yeah but he
(39:04):
did these high tariffs on Switzerland. Well okay. We don't
buy a lot of I mean chocolate is not a
major driver of GDP. Okay. Yeah. Aside from the gold
bars which by the way that's not a major driver
of GDP either. You know we don't do that much
with Swiss. Almost all of our business with Switzerland is
not is not goods and services. It's financial services, which
is not a tariff type product. So that that high
(39:27):
tariff on Switzerland wasn't really going to affect much, except
it accidentally seemed to have affected gold bars. And the
president is saying, oops, not what we meant. So, you know,
we're not going to a high tax on the tiny
country of Switzerland is not going to affect trade balances
on much other than already completed chocolate. Uh, so that's
not really a big driver. So I'd say the high
(39:49):
markets are largely because the president adjusted to reality and
mostly rolled back his trade war.
S1 (39:54):
Yeah. Interesting. That's very helpful. All right, Jerry, let's pivot
here for a second. Yeah. Go ahead.
S6 (39:59):
Sorry. And also because the low the poorly performing jobs
market makes it more likely the fed is going to
do monetary stimulus. They follow the jobs market more closely
than anything. They think the labor market is deteriorating. So
the odds of of a of increasing the money supply
have increased. So some of this some of the high
(40:20):
stock market is good news. Trade war is going to
be a lot smaller. Uh, you know, it's going to
be Falklands not World War two. Uh, and so but
part of it is are the Fed's going to put the, the,
the gas on because the labor market is not doing well.
S1 (40:35):
That's helpful. Corporate engagement. I mean, what a lot of
our listeners may not realize is, Jerry, it doesn't take
much in the way of of ownership to have a
voice into these companies. You're one of those leading voices
helping investors and ministries and and even states in some cases, uh,
vote their values before these companies. Just give us a
(40:59):
thumbnail sketch of what is it, and then what are
some of the big wins as of late?
S6 (41:05):
Uh, what it is, is if you own shares in
a company. Now, this doesn't apply. If you use an
ETF or a mutual fund, then you're giving away your vote. Uh,
so be careful who you choose as your ETF or
mutual fund, because the vast majority of them are going
to weaponize your money against you if you're a Christian
and that's your worldview. They're going to be weaponizing your
money against you. Not all of them. Uh, but the
vast majority of them. Uh, but if you own yourself,
(41:27):
then you can put proposals on the ballot, and we
help with that. Now, we generally work with financial advisors,
not just individual investors or with ministries. We can work
with the church or, you know, a ministry, etc., uh,
to put proposals on the ballot. And you think, oh,
I'm not a big Wall Street person. If you own
$2,000 worth for three years, you can put a proposal
on the ballot. That's all it takes. Um, and people
(41:49):
who disagree with our values have been dominating this process, uh, for, uh,
30 years. And our side is just starting to get involved. Uh,
just to hit a highlight last week. This has not
hit the news yet at all. Uh, we helped someone
put a proposal with Microsoft. Microsoft has a discount program.
(42:09):
I hear the music. Um, you know, for non-profits, except
if you're a crisis pregnancy center, you don't get the
nonprofit discount. Why? Because you don't fit their definition of
reproductive services. You only get counted as providing reproductive services
if no actual reproduction occurs. That's nuts. It has to stop.
S1 (42:30):
Wow. Well, that's the kind of corporate engagement that's going
on from Jerry and his team. And we always love
to hear those updates. Jerry. Thanks for your time today, buddy.
S6 (42:39):
Thank you. God bless.
S1 (42:40):
All right. Bless you as well, folks. Thanks for being
along with us. Faith and Finance Live is a partnership
between Moody Radio and Faith by Shanay and Randy. Let's
get you scheduled for another call. Stay right there. Big
thanks to my team today. We'll see you next time.
Bye bye.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!