April 11, 2025 • 42 mins
Israel is a nation often in the news but seldom for its potential as an investment. And even though it’s a tiny country, it’s a powerhouse for investing opportunities, particularly in the tech sector. On the next Faith & Finance Live, Rob West will talk with Brian Mumbert, who’ll share a look at Israel in a different light. Then Rob will answer your questions on different financial topics.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:08):
Israel is a nation often in the news, but seldom
for its potential as an investment. Hi, I'm Rob West.
Israel is a tiny country, but a powerhouse for investing opportunities,
particularly in the tech sector. Brian Mumbere joins us today
for a look at Israel in a different light. And
then it's on to your calls at 800, 525 7000.
(00:30):
That's 805, two five 7000. This is faith in finance.
Live biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, it's always
a joy to have our friend Brian Humbert on the program.
He's vice president for regional sales at the Timothy Plan,
an underwriter of this program and one of the pioneers
(00:51):
of faith based investing. Brian. Welcome back.
S2 (00:54):
Thank you. Rob. Happy to be here.
S1 (00:56):
Brian, one of your previous visits, we touched on investing
in Israel, but I want to take a deeper dive
into that topic today. I know Timothy plan, of course,
has a fund for this, which we can talk about
in a bit. But first, why is Israel in particular
an attractive place to invest despite what often seems like
incredible geopolitical turmoil?
S2 (01:18):
Well, yes, Rob, as we all know, there's turmoil that
erupts from time to time in the in the Middle
East and with Israel. Um, but it has been a
country that is incredibly resilient. Um, Israel has an entrepreneurial
spirit that runs through their people, and they are really self-starters.
They're eager to develop something new. And I saw that
(01:39):
firsthand when I went over there. Um, everyone is, um,
just working, very busy. You go downtown in Tel Aviv
and you see this firsthand. Um, technology, of course, is
really big on Israel, which I know we're going to
talk about. Um, but really, what's interesting about Israel is
they're a country that culturally, uh, has a low view
of debt. Um, when I had the privilege of going
(02:01):
over there years ago with a group and our fund manager,
when we first started the fund, uh, we were visiting
with one of the heads of finance over there, and
they talked about how they they sent the entire population,
piggy banks to remind them, um, about saving, about how
to to be good stewards of what they have and
how the country would be good stewards of what they have,
and they would be in the saving world with them.
(02:23):
And so this makes their financials just a really great investment.
So it's quite interesting to see it firsthand.
S1 (02:29):
Yeah. Uh, that's really fascinating. Let me ask you though,
is it safe to invest in Israel from the perspective
of national security?
S2 (02:37):
It absolutely is, Rob. They're regulated just like everybody else. Um,
Israel has their own stock exchange, the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange.
They have their own index, the Tel Aviv 125, which
when we first started the fund was just the Tel
Aviv 100. And so those are the 125 highest value
companies over there in Israel. And then even during times
of heightened issues and wars that can occur, the economy
(03:00):
just kind of keeps really moving. And I like to
go back to, you know, using the US as an example,
you know, during World War Two. Um, you know, of course,
our stock markets experienced volatility. But overall the Dow gained 50%
from 1939 to 1945. So even during times of peril
and issues, the market and the country and business continues
(03:22):
to run.
S1 (03:24):
Yeah. That's helpful. Uh, you know, we don't talk a
lot about Israel's economy. How would you describe Brian? It's
health and even the impact on stock performance.
S2 (03:34):
You know, Israel can sometimes feel like a little bit
of a forgotten nation. Uh, they were once big in
the emerging market space. And then in 2009, they graduated
to the developed economy space. And this was really a
positive thing for them. But in the scheme of things,
it kind of worked out a little bit against them
because in emerging markets, they were picked up in all
of the funds. And then once they graduated into the
(03:57):
developed economy, you know, a lot of the international funds,
ours and others included, really focus on large cap developed economies.
And so you get a lot of Europe and a
lot of Japan. And Israel, being such a small country,
kind of gets left out of that entirely. But the
economy itself is is really moving in a positive direction,
especially with the, you know, the change of presidency here
(04:19):
in the US, a little bit more of our firm
commitment to the country. And, um, unemployment over there and
inflation are quite low.
S1 (04:26):
Yeah, I know they are. And that makes it a
fairly attractive investment. And I know it's often referred to
as a startup nation. In fact, there's a book about
Israel with that title. When we come back from our break,
I want to dig into, uh, what is often seen
as one of the most compelling sectors for investment in Israel,
and that is their robust tech sector. Uh, we'll talk
(04:49):
about that and how effective they are at exporting their
tech products and systems, and what other sectors might be
appealing to investors. And also we'll touch on the Timothy
Plan Israel Common Values mutual fund, which is a really
easy way to invest in Israel. Brian Lumbard here today.
(05:09):
Brian is our good friend. He's vice president of regional
sales at Timothy Plan, an underwriter of this program. We'll
be back with much more just around the corner. 800
525 7000. Stick around. Thanks for joining us today on
(05:35):
Faith and Finance Live. With me today, my good friend
Brian Lumbard. Brian is vice president for regional sales at
Timothy Plan, an underwriter of this program and a real
pioneer in the faith based investing space. If you want
to learn more, you can head to Timothy plan.com. Com.
We're talking about investing in Israel today. We hear so
(05:55):
much about Israel geopolitically, and it's a nation that we
enjoy just a long history with as a nation here
in the U.S. but what about as an investment? Well,
Brian's been sharing with us some of the the compelling
aspects of investing in Israel. In a moment, we'll get
to how you can do that easily through one of
(06:16):
Timothy Plan's funds, the Israel Common Values Fund. But let's
talk about one of the most robust sectors of Israel's economy,
and that is the tech sector. What do we need
to know about that, Brian?
S2 (06:28):
Well, sure, Rob. I mean, high tech over in Israel
is about 12% of the Israeli workforce and it contributes
to 20% of their GDP, so it's quite large. Um,
many of the companies you may have never heard of
these names, most of them I can't pronounce. Um, but
a lot of them, you know, get absorbed into big
companies like Apple and Google over here in the United
(06:49):
States and utilize for technology in our phones and our
computers they use for their data storage. There's numerous things.
One example that I could give would be car cameras.
You know, Mobileye came out of Israel, and a lot
of the technology that's in all of our newer cars
today that will stop for you before an accident occurs
or monitors driving came out of Israel through a company
(07:10):
called Mobileye and one of my favorites, Waze, a map
app that was developed by a gentleman over over there
that couldn't figure out how to have enough time to
get to work. Driving through the Old City of Jerusalem,
where there are very small roads that wind around. And
so he decided to crowdsource that thing. And now that
app is one of my favorites to use on my phone.
And one of the more interesting things not even tech
(07:33):
is cherry tomatoes came out of Israel. I couldn't believe it.
S1 (07:37):
What do you know? Next time you eat a salad
with cherry tomatoes, you can thank Israel for that. That's great. Yeah. Uh, now,
is the Israeli government supportive of tech advances in the
private sector and how does that affect the market?
S2 (07:50):
Yes, the government is incredibly supportive of the tech sector
because they see the value for their economy. Just to
give perspective on this, Israel is the third largest tech
hub by capital raised, and it's only behind Silicon Valley
here in the United States and New York City.
S1 (08:07):
Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. Who would have thought?
S2 (08:10):
I know.
S1 (08:11):
Well, let's talk beyond technology. Um, what other sectors might
be attractive to investors invested there?
S2 (08:19):
And we talk a lot about financials a little bit earlier.
Their concept of debt is just extremely important. You can't
undervalue that because here in the United States we get
bogged down so much in government spending right now. Doge
is in the news all the time trying to cut
spending and this and that. But, um, you know, here
in the US, we have a challenge with our national debt.
(08:40):
And over there, their cultural spirit that they just do not, uh,
do not seek to take out debt really just lends
their financials to be great investments. And then outside of that,
I mean, there are there are just a number of
companies that are doing things. We discussed cherry tomatoes. They
invented drip irrigation over there as well, things like that.
(09:00):
So it's it's things that we see in our everyday
life that come out of such a small country. And
it all goes back to that entrepreneurial spirit that they have.
S1 (09:08):
Yeah. Well, I know they're working on exporting a lot
of these products as well. And that goes back to
the tech sector there and even intersects with some of
our U.S. companies. Talk to us about how successful they
are at exporting.
S2 (09:21):
Yeah, Israel's incredibly successful in exporting. Over 50% of their
total exports are tech, if you can believe that. Um,
particularly Apple invested in Israeli tech startups, uh, a number
of years ago. Um, they bought a company called Primesense. Um,
Apple's bought another company called Anobit, an Israeli semiconductor firm
(09:42):
that contributed to enhancing storage for Apple's stuff, really. You know,
being over there and seeing it. You have all of
these tech companies Apple, Google, Amazon, meta, and they're all
they're looking for the next big thing. And um, and
absorbing them into their companies. And so you can easily
see why so much of their exports is made out
(10:03):
of out of tech. And so they're very friendly to it.
S1 (10:06):
What about Israel's relations with other countries? How is that
impacting investments there?
S2 (10:12):
Yes. It's been it's been good. Uh, we had, you know,
remember a couple of years ago, the Abraham Accords came
about and really normalized relationships with them and other Middle
East countries. Obviously, their relationship with the US is great
or we wouldn't have all of our, our biggest tech
companies over there in the first place. Um, but really
looking forward to this year. It seems like, uh, normalizing
(10:33):
relationships with Saudi Arabia is on the table as well
as as the war draws to a close. And so
we know Israel for the enemies that they have around them.
But by and large, the countries that are there around
them are very supportive.
S1 (10:45):
Yeah. What about venture capital? Um, do they have a
strong venture capital presence and how does that relate to investing?
S2 (10:53):
Absolutely, Rob. I mean, Israel has more than 276 active
venture capital funds. And, you know, we've already talked about
how Israel is really only second to Silicon Valley in
New York. But this shows no signs of slowing down
as year over year, the market really continues to expand.
And as recent as 2019, Israeli companies were considered more
(11:14):
popular than their American peers. And this is really interesting. Uh,
investment in Israeli startups grew by 140% from 2014 to 2018,
and in the US at the same time frame that
was 64% so wildly, wildly popular in the venture capital presence,
for sure.
S1 (11:33):
Yeah. Well, let's talk about the fund at Timothy Plan,
because I know you all make it really easy to
invest in Israel. And your fund is the Israel Common
Values Mutual Fund. What do our listeners need to know
about that?
S2 (11:46):
It's a unique fund, as I kind of discussed before.
It's one that's not really present in your general international space.
So if you're investing in a broad international fund, you
probably don't have any Israel exposure in there. But what
I love about having a mutual fund that has active
management on it is that you're able to really react
(12:07):
in real time to what is going on. So when
you have issues like the war that occurred here, um,
you have a manager that's looking over this to to
trim your exposures to financials, if that's going to be
an issue there. Um, you know, it's there are some
ETFs out there that are more passive. And they, um,
they do invest in Israeli companies, maybe not all domiciled
in Israel. I think the other thing that really makes
(12:29):
the Timothy Plan Fund unique is that, um, at a minimum,
at least 80% of the companies in that portfolio do
have to be domiciled in Israel as well. So that
combined with active management, uh, you know, you look at
the performance and the way things have gone, um, you know,
it's really interesting watching how last year drew to a close,
(12:50):
you know, the fund. Well, the Israel Stock exchange itself
was up over 20%. And and much of that really
occurred in the second half of the year. So things
can turn very quickly over there as as the country
really normalizes relationships, the war comes to a close and
it could be a really exciting space for investors.
S1 (13:11):
Yeah. No doubt. And just like everything at Timothy plan,
I assume this fund, like the others, are screened for
Christian values, right?
S2 (13:18):
Absolutely. Every company is screened for the same values from
abortion and pornography and on down to ensure that Christians
get to invest with their values and at the same
time support a country that is is near and dear
to many of our hearts here.
S1 (13:34):
Yeah. Very good. How can folks get more information, Brian?
S2 (13:37):
Oh, they can absolutely check it out on the website.
Timothy plan.com. We have a section for Israel. We also
have some pieces out there on on why to invest
in Israel and why someone should consider it. So that's
something they can take a look at there as well.
S1 (13:51):
Excellent. Well, I appreciate the deep dive today. We're grateful
for our partnership with Timothy Plan and the great things
you've been doing in the faith based investing space for
a long time. Thanks for your time today.
S2 (14:01):
Thank you Rob. Happy to be here.
S1 (14:02):
That's Brian, member vice president for regional sales at the
Timothy Plan, a pioneer and leader in the faith based
investing movement and a partner here at Faith and finance.
Check him out. Timothy. plan.com. Back with your questions after this.
The number 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. Stick around.
S3 (14:32):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants are given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:57):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live. I'm Rob West, looking forward to taking your
calls and questions today. And boy, there's a lot of
calls and questions. Our lines are jam packed, so we'll
be headed to those calls here in just a moment.
Coming up in our final segment today, Jerry Bowyer stops by.
We'll we always look forward to Jerry's visit today in
particular because of the the roller coaster that was Wall
(15:20):
Street this week. We did finish on a positive. You
might call it a green note green meaning up positive.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average up 620 points, about 1.5%.
The S&P 500 a little better than that, up nearly 2%.
The Nasdaq up just beyond 2%. That's good. Uh, that, uh,
(15:42):
caps off one of the most volatile weeks on Wall
Street ever. And that's, of course, due to the tariffs,
the prospect of recession, what's going on in the bond market.
Just some of the disruptions on an economy that's still,
for all intents and purposes, still chugging along at a
pretty good clip. We had great jobs number last week.
(16:02):
We had good inflation data on the consumer side. More
good news on inflation in that it's coming down today
on the producer side. So all of that is good. However,
all of that data is looking in the rear view mirror.
That's March and we know the world has changed a bit.
Economically speaking, in these first 11 days of April, none
(16:24):
of that is reflected in those numbers. So is this
disruption causing us to head for what is possibly a
recession that perhaps we would have missed previously? Or is
this just setting the stage for a more pro-growth economy
as we level the playing field with regard to our
trading partners, and we deal with the China situation, which
(16:46):
has erupted into a trade war, although it may be
short lived. And how is all of that going to
affect the US as a place to invest for foreigners?
What about our markets and our economy? Jerry will weigh
in on all of that in our final segment today.
But in the meantime, let's take your calls and questions.
What's most important to you is what's going on in
your economy. So let's dive into those. First up is
(17:08):
Jaquinta in Chicago. Go right ahead.
S4 (17:12):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call.
S1 (17:14):
You're welcome. Thank you for calling.
S4 (17:17):
I was calling because I have a, um, a 401
k that I have at somewhere. I used to work
about 15 years ago. Um, actually, as a university. University
of Illinois, Chicago. It's about. I want to say, the
last time I checked, about $15,000 in there, but I
have not been at that job for over 15 years,
and I just left it there to grow. And I
(17:39):
want to know, is it a good idea to move it?
I should move it to like currently I'm working and
I have a 401 K, should I combine them or
should I just leave it there? It was actually kind
of different because it's a SaaS system. I think that
stands for State and University Retirement System. I think it's
the same thing as a 401 K. So I just
left it there and should I move it to what
(18:00):
I have or just let it grow there?
S1 (18:02):
Yeah. So your new job you have a 401 K
there correct.
S4 (18:07):
Yes.
S1 (18:08):
Okay. Yeah. You know I generally recommend that, especially with
the kind of balance we're talking about. Not that that
is insignificant $15,000. It's a lot of money, but it's not,
you know, 150,000, um, where you might get an advisor
to manage that separately. So I think rolling that into
your new 401 K creates just a little bit more simplicity.
(18:28):
It's not another count to keep up with. You know,
you can unify the investments. So whatever investments you've selected
in your 401 K, this new money would automatically go
into that. And then when you get closer to retirement,
you separate from your employer to whatever God has for
you in that season of life. Then you could consider
rolling it to an IRA and having someone manage it
(18:51):
for you, which is what I would recommend. Now, what
you may find, though, is that depending on exactly what
type of account it is, it's probably a pre-tax retirement account,
but it may or may not be a 401 K,
and therefore it may or may not be able to
be rolled in to your existing 401 K. So your
first question would be to your plan administrator with your
(19:15):
current 401 K providing them the details on exactly what
you have with your previous employer and asking that question.
They will be able to quickly tell you yes or no.
If the answer is yes, that's the direction I would go.
S4 (19:28):
Okay.
S5 (19:29):
All right. Okay. Thank you very much.
S1 (19:31):
You are so welcome. Thank you for calling. Call any time.
To Wisconsin. Hi, John. How can I help?
S6 (19:36):
Hi. Uh, thanks for taking my call.
S1 (19:39):
You're welcome.
S6 (19:40):
I had, uh, received the other day a, uh. I
guess you would call it IRA for my mom maybe
inherited thing. And it's going to be taxable. It's going
to be used up in ten years, which you may know.
And I have a, like a $84,000 mortgage. And I
was just wondering, um, what could I maybe do in
(20:02):
that aspect of it? Should I pay that off or
should I? I have a 3.7, uh, uh, interest on
the mortgage, and I didn't know if it was better
to continue to invest, and you know what I mean,
or pay it.
S1 (20:18):
Yeah, I sure do. Yeah. So a couple of questions.
What is your age, John?
S6 (20:22):
Uh, I'm going to be 70in about three years.
S1 (20:25):
Okay. Yeah. And so are you. Fully retired?
S6 (20:29):
Yeah.
S1 (20:30):
Okay. Yeah. And so, um, you have a mortgage of
about 85,000. And how much is in this inherited IRA?
S6 (20:37):
Well, with, uh, before, right now, it's fluctuating because my
mom had a high risk, so, uh, 70% in high risk,
and it still is. I haven't changed anything yet because
it dropped out the other day. Of course, you know. And, um,
so it'll be about 100, 190, something like that to
drop down to 170, so.
S1 (20:57):
Okay. Got it. Yeah. And you're not expecting any kind
of changes in your tax bracket? Uh, I mean, apart
from the tax rate's changing. Your income is not. You
don't anticipate that changing in the next five years or so.
S6 (21:10):
No. Not really.
S1 (21:12):
No. Yeah, I would say, because you have to take
this out anyway. I like the idea of you being
debt free now. I mean, one consideration is your mortgage
is low. And so if you just wanted to pay
it out and keep this invested. You know, whether or
not you pull this money out and then reinvest it
(21:32):
in a taxable environment where the taxes would be a
drag on it, but you still shouldn't have much trouble
beating that 3.75. I think that's a consideration. But if
you would just have more peace of mind knowing I
own my home, it's free and clear regardless of the
low interest rate, then I'd go that direction. Let's finish
up on the other side of this break. Stay right there, John.
(21:52):
We'll be right back. Thanks for joining us today on
Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We're taking your
calls and questions today. All the lines are full. So
let's dive right back in. Before the break we were
talking to John in Wisconsin. Uh he's 70. He has
an inherited IRA from his mom. He has to deplete
(22:16):
that because of the rules on, uh, the the latest
legislation that requires that be depleted within ten years has
to be completely pulled out and therefore tax is paid
on it. He's wondering if he should pay down his mortgage.
He's got more than, uh, than the value of the mortgage,
which is about $85,000 in the IRA. The mortgage is
(22:36):
at 3.75. He's wondering if he should invest it or
use the money to pay down the mortgage. Um, so, John,
are you just talk to me about kind of how
strongly your desire is to be completely debt free versus
you just kind of finding which makes the most financial sense.
S6 (22:56):
Well, I'm okay with making the payments if it's better to, uh,
work the market. There's another aspect, uh, maybe kind of
called kind of prematurely, but there is another part of
this that's going to be in a trust, and it
may be about the same amount or approximate, and that
I don't know what that percentage is. That may be
(23:16):
a lot less. Maybe you know more about that as
far as the trust.
S1 (23:21):
No, I mean, the trust could be any amount. So
this is coming from her estate?
S6 (23:25):
Yeah.
S1 (23:27):
Okay. And so she passed away recently, and it's just
not settled.
S6 (23:31):
Right, right.
S1 (23:32):
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that that trust obviously could
be any amount of money, but that's not a tax
deferred environment. I mean, here's my thought. I mean, unless
you're just really set on being debt free. And if
you were, I mean, there's no problem with that. That's
actually a good thing. But, you know, I would say,
all right, let's look to pay this off just as
soon as possible. But if you're comfortable hanging on to
the mortgage, you got a low interest rate. You can
(23:53):
easily make the payments you're just looking for. What's the
thing that makes the most financial sense? I would say
certainly don't sell that portfolio right now with the market
doing what it's doing. Let's kind of let this run
its course, even though you have to take it out
in ten years. And if she had already been taken
or required minimums you have to keep those up. Are
(24:13):
you going to have to take required minimums each year?
S6 (24:17):
Well, I think so because we just took one now
and that was 14. So I just took that and
11 with with, you know, taxes out.
S1 (24:26):
Okay. Yeah. So, you know, obviously you could use that
to pay it down even though that would be a
little bit slower. Um, you know, and so I think
with regard to this IRA, um, you know, I'd probably
let this stay invested. It's just a phenomenal opportunity in
that tax deferred environment to take advantage of the growth
(24:46):
that will come regardless of what the market does. We
still have a fairly long time horizon. Um, and so
let that money continue to work for you, even if
you were to once this market recovers a little bit,
you know, maybe reposition it if you feel like it's
a little too aggressive. Now that you're the steward, you
don't have to keep her investment mix. You may want
to get just a bit more conservative, but the idea
(25:08):
that even though you've got ten years and you're going
to have to take those qualified or required minimums, I
don't know that I'd rush to pull it out just
because that that tax favored environment is pretty attractive, so
I'd probably kind of let this ride and only take
it out as you need to.
S6 (25:25):
Okay. And then the trust, when that comes that you
don't think I don't think there'll be much tax on that.
So maybe I'd use that for the house instead.
S1 (25:33):
Exactly. And so that that would be after tax dollars probably.
And uh, you know, that would be a great option
for you. Um, because then that money again. Yeah. Has
already had taxes paid on it, if any, unless you
hold it and you have capital gains. Um, and so
that would probably be the source of funds I would
use to pay down that mortgage for sure. And at
(25:54):
the very least, let's wait and get clarity on how
much you're going to get there.
S6 (25:58):
Okay. I can always check back, uh, but, uh, otherwise,
it sounds like it should be good.
S1 (26:03):
Excellent. Well, we appreciate your call, John. Hey, stay on
the line. I want to send you a gift. A
copy of our latest edition of our Faithful Steward magazine.
Just as a thanks for being on the program today.
We appreciate your call. Uh, Johnny is in Miami. Johnny.
Go ahead. Head.
S7 (26:18):
Yes. Thank you. Ron. I appreciate you taking my call. Uh,
contributing to a employer 457 B plan. I have that
going into Roth. Uh, those funds going into a Roth plant.
And I'd like. I'm contributing the maximum amount. I'm married
(26:42):
over 50. Uh, I'd like to know on top of that,
can I also open up a personal Roth IRA and
a traditional Roth IRA?
S1 (26:59):
Yeah. Uh. You can. Yes. So, alongside a company sponsored plan,
like a 457, 401 K or 403 B, you can
also have an IRA, and you can have both a
Roth and a traditional. The key would be you cannot
contribute more than the the contribution limit for the year
(27:22):
among all of the IRAs that you have. Um, so
for 2025, what is your age?
S7 (27:29):
Uh, 63.
S1 (27:31):
Okay. So, uh, you would be able to use the
catch up provision over the age of 50, which would
allow you to put in a total of 8000. So
in addition to whatever you're putting in the 457, you'd
be able to put in up to 8000 across any
number of IRAs. So if you wanted to put 4000
in a traditional and 4000 in a Roth, you could
(27:51):
do that. You want to put 8001 nothing in the other.
The key is across all the IRAs that you have, uh,
Roth or traditional, you can't put more than $8,000 as
somebody who's 50 or older in the year 2025.
S7 (28:07):
Okay. So this is, uh, this 8000 That's not included
in my 457. Wrong.
S1 (28:19):
Right. The 457 wrath is is completely different. That's a
company sponsored retirement plan or a government sponsored plan. Uh,
but it's different. It's just the Roth variety, but it's
different from an individual retirement account. Roth. Uh, and so
you can have both. Yes.
S7 (28:37):
Okay. Right. So the personal Roth IRA and a traditional
combined can only be up to 8000.
S1 (28:48):
Uh, yes. It's for the IRA, which I stands for. Individual. Yes.
So that's not the company's plan. The IRA individual retirement account.
The total for the year this year happens to be 8000.
If you're 50 or older. And the key there would
be you've got to have, uh, a modified adjusted gross
income under 150,000, in order to be eligible to, to
(29:12):
put it into the Roth IRA.
S7 (29:15):
Okay. Okay. Thank you very much, Ron.
S1 (29:18):
All right. Absolutely, sir. Thanks for your call today. Uh,
let's see, we're going to, uh, go quickly to, uh,
Kathy in Minnesota. Hi, Kathy.
S8 (29:27):
Hi, Rob. Thanks so much for taking my call.
S1 (29:30):
Sure.
S8 (29:30):
I have a question on an appreciable life insurance policy
that I have. Um, my husband and I are both
65 years of age. Uh, we no longer need the
death benefit of this policy. It does have a cash
value of 45 five. So I'm wondering if we would
(29:51):
be better off just getting rid of this policy, taking
the cash, making better use of the funds. A couple
options we're looking at are investment into the markets since
we could certainly buy low at this point. Yep. Or
we have a second property that has a mortgage balance
of 50,000.
S1 (30:12):
Yeah, I like that a lot because I think you
could perhaps do some other things with it. You've named
a couple of options. You just want to check the
taxes so that doesn't catch you by surprise. Anything you
cash out that's above what you paid in premiums is
going to be taxable to you. But if you don't
need the death benefit and you've got other places, you
can deploy that and you don't need to convert it
(30:33):
to an annuity for an income stream. Uh, at this point,
I like the idea of you considering cashing it out
because you no longer need the death benefit, and you
could accomplish your retirement goals by deploying it elsewhere. Just
make sure you check into any surrender penalties. You shouldn't
have them because of how old it is and the taxes.
We'll be right back. Hey, thanks for joining us today
(30:59):
on Faith and Finance Live, helping you to see God
as your ultimate treasure. By the way, if you love
the broadcast, maybe you've found something helpful to you in
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this message by supporting the ministry at $35 a month.
And one way we say thank you is to provide
(31:21):
resources that will encourage you and your stewardship journey, including
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study comes out in May as well. So new partners
(31:42):
will get both, uh, and existing partners. It's, uh, called
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If you want to become a partner and help us
reach more people, just head to faith. Com and click give.
That's faith. Philly.com and click give. Jerry Boyer standing by.
(32:04):
We're looking forward to getting his thoughts on the markets
here straight ahead. But first Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Linda. How
can I help?
S9 (32:11):
Hi. Thank you. Um, we have some friends that have
asked us to give us, um, to give them a
letter of giftedness to help them buy a home. They're
asking for $17,000, for which they have $17,000 in cash
that they will exchange for our check immediately, and we
(32:32):
don't understand why they can't. We said, well, why don't
you just give them the cash, you know, and they said, no,
they can't. The the loan company will not allow them
to do that. So we're not sure if there's a
reason if we would do this, we'll be will we
be causing ourselves difficulties or them.
S1 (32:49):
Well, yeah. And I'm not exactly. I mean, this is
not uncommon. So here's the way this normally works. I mean,
normally if I were going to buy a house and
I didn't have the money to buy it, and I
call a friend like you and I say, listen, um,
you know, I don't have the money to buy this house.
Can you loan me $17,000 and I'll pay it back?
(33:11):
You know, over time and all of a sudden, you
give me 17,000. Then the lender wants to know that
you essentially have have taken out another loan for the
purpose of being able to buy this house, and therefore,
you don't really have the money. And so what they
typically want is a gift letter from the person giving
(33:32):
you the money saying, listen, we're giving you this money
as a straight gift. This is a family member or
a friend. This is your money. Keep it. And we're
not expecting repayment. And then that gives the lender the
confidence to say, okay, it's not like there's a second
loan out there. This person actually does have the money
that they're, you know, putting down on the house. We're
(33:53):
going to do our underwriting to make sure we feel
like they're a a good risk for the rest of
it that we're loaning them. But at least we know that,
you know, the money they're getting is a down payment
that we see just came into the account in the
last 90 days or whatever. Um, you know, is not
expected to be repaid. And therefore now there's two loans,
essentially one personal and one conventional. Um, and so that's
(34:15):
typically the way this works. There's something awry here with
regard to them asking you for the for the gift letter,
because you're not actually making them a gift. Uh, they're
giving you the money back. And I'm trying to figure
out exactly what that would be in terms of if
they've already got the money and they're trying to justify
how they got it, I suspect. And I'm just guessing here,
(34:38):
maybe they borrowed it from somebody else that does expect repayment.
And they're going to use your exchange of 17,000 and
your gift letter, um, you know, to justify it, which
obviously any of those scenarios are wrong because it's just
not true. Right, right. Yeah. So I would stay far
(34:58):
from this. Go ahead.
S9 (35:00):
I was going to say they are, from another country
that deals in cash only. And so I think that
that probably is part of the issue, but we just
don't know how that's going to come down on us
or them.
S1 (35:14):
Um, well, and I think at the end of the day,
you just need to say, listen, we're willing to help,
but we're not going to put we're not going to
say something that's not true. And so, you know, you
providing a letter saying you made a gift when you didn't.
You just exchanged checks. That's not a gift. Um, I
think that's where you need to. That's the showstopper as
far as I'm concerned.
S9 (35:35):
Okay. And they should just tell the I mean, again,
the fact that they've got the money, is there some
way that they can convince the loan company or they're just.
S1 (35:45):
Yeah. I mean, there's something there that's tripping the loan
company up as to the source of funds. And I'm
sure there's any number of scenarios as to what that is.
And the fact that they're coming from out of the country,
you know, further complicates things. And so they're just trying
to appease the requests on the underwriting of here's all
the things we need, and that's one of them, and
they're trying to figure out a way to get that.
(36:06):
But I just don't think you guys can be involved in,
you know, attesting to something that doesn't actually represent what's
really going on here.
S10 (36:14):
Right, right.
S9 (36:15):
Okay. Well, thank you very much for your answer.
S1 (36:17):
All right, Linda, appreciate your call very much. Thanks for
being on today. Well, here in our final segment, Jerry
Bowyer is with us. Jerry is our resident economist. And man,
really looking forward to hearing Jerry's take on the markets
and the economy. Jerry, you heard that last question. Anything
I'm missing there?
S11 (36:32):
No, I think that's that's spot on. I mean, you
have to be honest in your dealings. That's a really
important thing, right? Not just shrewd and clever in business,
but also honest in your dealings.
S1 (36:44):
Yeah, no doubt about it. All right, Jerry, it's been
a busy week. You could call it a roller coaster. Uh,
you know, we've, uh, volatility is the order of the day. Uh,
this was in, I mean, very much self-induced, right. Because
the market or. Excuse me, the me, the economy is
clipping along here. Even though we've said you've said for
some time there's clearly signs that it's slowing. I mean,
(37:06):
you know, the jobs data last week on top of the,
you know, lower PPI and CPI, we're still in a
fairly good position. But all of that was, you know,
as of ten days ago. And the world has changed
since then. Huh?
S11 (37:20):
Yes, exactly. That's backward looking. So there were tariffs were
not in place yet. There was the threat of tariffs.
There were tweets last month. Well, tweets are not going
to change wholesale prices. Um, so you know whatever tax
increases that excuse me, whatever price increases we see from
the tax increases we're going to see later on. Yeah. And,
(37:40):
you know, I've been thinking a lot about this. I
don't know if people have heard of Smoot-Hawley. Um, if
you're a fan of Ferris Bueller's Day Off when he's
sitting in class, um, you know, the teacher is explaining
Smoot-Hawley and his role in the Great Depression. Um, and
just this reminds me so much of this. So Smoot-Hawley
was a tariff package that was working its way through
the Congress. Through Congress in the 1920s and the day
(38:04):
of the great sell off. You know, the market crash
that morning. The, uh, the story in the New York
Times was that nine senators who had been anti-tariff had
switched to pro tariff. And so that made that it
looked like Smoot-Hawley was going to pass. Uh, and markets
sold off immediately. And then it's interesting, um, and my friend,
(38:27):
the late Jude Wanniski, has kind of written like day
by day as there's different headlines. Is Smoot-Hawley tariff. Is
it going to pass? Is it not going to pass?
When it seems like it's going to pass, markets go
down and it seems like it's not going to pass.
Markets go up. And we're reliving that right now from
week to week. Tweet to tweet. Uh you know, what's
going to happen is are we going to have a
trade war. Maybe. But maybe not. Oh, wait a minute. Uh,
(38:51):
Rand Paul is doing legislation which would take tariff power
away from the from the president, which really it doesn't
belong with the president, right? The you know, that's always
been a congressional function. And markets are moving back and
forth based on whether they think these tariffs are going
to be around for a long time. And it's fascinating
to see what happened in 1929 playing out again now
(39:11):
in 2025. And we've forgotten it by the way, we
have a trade war about every 100 years, right? 1820s, 1920s, 2020s,
because it seems like that's how long it takes to
completely forget what happened with the last trade war. Um,
and I know a lot of people kind of on
(39:31):
Main Street are saying not Main Street, really. Politicians are saying, well,
that's Wall Street, not Main Street. And people were saying
that in 2008 as well. Markets were going down a
lot in 2008, but in 2008 the economy itself was
reasonably strong. Um, 2009 the economy was terrible. So the
market moves before the economy. And in 2008, I was saying,
(39:55):
it's sort of like watching an atomic bomb go off
from a distance. You see the flash, and then ten
minutes later you feel the shockwave. Markets are the flash.
They're looking forward and then the shock. Now, that's probably
a little too scary an analogy because the president is
is kind of backing off from some of the tariffs.
(40:15):
But it's just as a general principle markets are looking
ahead at the economy. Wall Street and Main Street are
not detached from one another. But Wall Street is forward looking.
Wall Street adjusts for what they think you know. Markets
adjust for what they think is coming before it hits
Main Street. So a lot of people were dismissive in 2008. Oh,
(40:38):
that's just the stock market. It hasn't affected me. In
2009 it affected everybody. Same thing with Covid markets crashed.
Hasn't affected me yet, but then it affected everybody. We
as a society, we've got to get past some idea
that markets are different than people, and the markets are
different than the economy. And Wall Street is a different
street than Main Street. We're all in this together. We're
(40:59):
all in God's plan. We're interrelated to one another as
a nation. Uh, and markets have been signaling something significant
that I think we need to take seriously now. Thankfully,
the president has backed off a lot. At least he's
done a 90 day pause. And I think that's because
he's looking at markets. I think that some of his advisers,
like Peter Navarro, who I've known a long time, said,
(41:21):
you know, Mr. President, this is great for the economy.
And if you you start a trade war. Markets will
go up. And instead they erased $7 trillion. And the
president is a pragmatist. And I think that pragmatist president
looked at that and said, hmm, maybe I need to
start listening to some of the other advisers rather than
the advisers, who told me that markets will applaud my
(41:43):
trade war.
S1 (41:44):
Yeah. And the Treasury secretary seems clearly to be saying
this is about getting people to the table and therefore
we can negotiate these away and the level, the playing
field and end up with a much better scenario for
the US. Moving forward, we could talk about what that
means if that's what happens, Jerry, is that ultimately long
(42:04):
term a good thing?
S11 (42:06):
Absolutely. Ultimately, long term that's a good thing. But I
will say the world is a market. The whole world
is going to be a little skeptical because this was
a reckless couple of weeks, and we're all going to
be a little wary for a while about the volatility
of leadership.
S1 (42:20):
Yeah. All right. But if you're an investor you stay
the course. You don't make any changes because of the
last two weeks right.
S11 (42:26):
No no of course not. You have to bet on
human productivity because that's what we're made for.
S1 (42:31):
Yeah that's right. Jerry always appreciate it. We'll get some
more thoughts next week. God bless you, my friend.
S12 (42:37):
God bless you.
S1 (42:38):
All right. Thanks to Lisa. Jim. Dan Anthony certainly couldn't
do this without him. Faith and finance is a partnership
between Moody Radio and Faith fi. Have a great weekend.
We'll see you next week. Bye bye.
Israel is a nation often in the news, but seldom
for its potential as an investment. Hi, I'm Rob West.
Israel is a tiny country, but a powerhouse for investing opportunities,
particularly in the tech sector. Brian Mumbere joins us today
for a look at Israel in a different light. And
then it's on to your calls at 800, 525 7000.
(00:30):
That's 805, two five 7000. This is faith in finance.
Live biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, it's always
a joy to have our friend Brian Humbert on the program.
He's vice president for regional sales at the Timothy Plan,
an underwriter of this program and one of the pioneers
(00:51):
of faith based investing. Brian. Welcome back.
S2 (00:54):
Thank you. Rob. Happy to be here.
S1 (00:56):
Brian, one of your previous visits, we touched on investing
in Israel, but I want to take a deeper dive
into that topic today. I know Timothy plan, of course,
has a fund for this, which we can talk about
in a bit. But first, why is Israel in particular
an attractive place to invest despite what often seems like
incredible geopolitical turmoil?
S2 (01:18):
Well, yes, Rob, as we all know, there's turmoil that
erupts from time to time in the in the Middle
East and with Israel. Um, but it has been a
country that is incredibly resilient. Um, Israel has an entrepreneurial
spirit that runs through their people, and they are really self-starters.
They're eager to develop something new. And I saw that
(01:39):
firsthand when I went over there. Um, everyone is, um,
just working, very busy. You go downtown in Tel Aviv
and you see this firsthand. Um, technology, of course, is
really big on Israel, which I know we're going to
talk about. Um, but really, what's interesting about Israel is
they're a country that culturally, uh, has a low view
of debt. Um, when I had the privilege of going
(02:01):
over there years ago with a group and our fund manager,
when we first started the fund, uh, we were visiting
with one of the heads of finance over there, and
they talked about how they they sent the entire population,
piggy banks to remind them, um, about saving, about how
to to be good stewards of what they have and
how the country would be good stewards of what they have,
and they would be in the saving world with them.
(02:23):
And so this makes their financials just a really great investment.
So it's quite interesting to see it firsthand.
S1 (02:29):
Yeah. Uh, that's really fascinating. Let me ask you though,
is it safe to invest in Israel from the perspective
of national security?
S2 (02:37):
It absolutely is, Rob. They're regulated just like everybody else. Um,
Israel has their own stock exchange, the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange.
They have their own index, the Tel Aviv 125, which
when we first started the fund was just the Tel
Aviv 100. And so those are the 125 highest value
companies over there in Israel. And then even during times
of heightened issues and wars that can occur, the economy
(03:00):
just kind of keeps really moving. And I like to
go back to, you know, using the US as an example,
you know, during World War Two. Um, you know, of course,
our stock markets experienced volatility. But overall the Dow gained 50%
from 1939 to 1945. So even during times of peril
and issues, the market and the country and business continues
(03:22):
to run.
S1 (03:24):
Yeah. That's helpful. Uh, you know, we don't talk a
lot about Israel's economy. How would you describe Brian? It's
health and even the impact on stock performance.
S2 (03:34):
You know, Israel can sometimes feel like a little bit
of a forgotten nation. Uh, they were once big in
the emerging market space. And then in 2009, they graduated
to the developed economy space. And this was really a
positive thing for them. But in the scheme of things,
it kind of worked out a little bit against them
because in emerging markets, they were picked up in all
of the funds. And then once they graduated into the
(03:57):
developed economy, you know, a lot of the international funds,
ours and others included, really focus on large cap developed economies.
And so you get a lot of Europe and a
lot of Japan. And Israel, being such a small country,
kind of gets left out of that entirely. But the
economy itself is is really moving in a positive direction,
especially with the, you know, the change of presidency here
(04:19):
in the US, a little bit more of our firm
commitment to the country. And, um, unemployment over there and
inflation are quite low.
S1 (04:26):
Yeah, I know they are. And that makes it a
fairly attractive investment. And I know it's often referred to
as a startup nation. In fact, there's a book about
Israel with that title. When we come back from our break,
I want to dig into, uh, what is often seen
as one of the most compelling sectors for investment in Israel,
and that is their robust tech sector. Uh, we'll talk
(04:49):
about that and how effective they are at exporting their
tech products and systems, and what other sectors might be
appealing to investors. And also we'll touch on the Timothy
Plan Israel Common Values mutual fund, which is a really
easy way to invest in Israel. Brian Lumbard here today.
(05:09):
Brian is our good friend. He's vice president of regional
sales at Timothy Plan, an underwriter of this program. We'll
be back with much more just around the corner. 800
525 7000. Stick around. Thanks for joining us today on
(05:35):
Faith and Finance Live. With me today, my good friend
Brian Lumbard. Brian is vice president for regional sales at
Timothy Plan, an underwriter of this program and a real
pioneer in the faith based investing space. If you want
to learn more, you can head to Timothy plan.com. Com.
We're talking about investing in Israel today. We hear so
(05:55):
much about Israel geopolitically, and it's a nation that we
enjoy just a long history with as a nation here
in the U.S. but what about as an investment? Well,
Brian's been sharing with us some of the the compelling
aspects of investing in Israel. In a moment, we'll get
to how you can do that easily through one of
(06:16):
Timothy Plan's funds, the Israel Common Values Fund. But let's
talk about one of the most robust sectors of Israel's economy,
and that is the tech sector. What do we need
to know about that, Brian?
S2 (06:28):
Well, sure, Rob. I mean, high tech over in Israel
is about 12% of the Israeli workforce and it contributes
to 20% of their GDP, so it's quite large. Um,
many of the companies you may have never heard of
these names, most of them I can't pronounce. Um, but
a lot of them, you know, get absorbed into big
companies like Apple and Google over here in the United
(06:49):
States and utilize for technology in our phones and our
computers they use for their data storage. There's numerous things.
One example that I could give would be car cameras.
You know, Mobileye came out of Israel, and a lot
of the technology that's in all of our newer cars
today that will stop for you before an accident occurs
or monitors driving came out of Israel through a company
(07:10):
called Mobileye and one of my favorites, Waze, a map
app that was developed by a gentleman over over there
that couldn't figure out how to have enough time to
get to work. Driving through the Old City of Jerusalem,
where there are very small roads that wind around. And
so he decided to crowdsource that thing. And now that
app is one of my favorites to use on my phone.
And one of the more interesting things not even tech
(07:33):
is cherry tomatoes came out of Israel. I couldn't believe it.
S1 (07:37):
What do you know? Next time you eat a salad
with cherry tomatoes, you can thank Israel for that. That's great. Yeah. Uh, now,
is the Israeli government supportive of tech advances in the
private sector and how does that affect the market?
S2 (07:50):
Yes, the government is incredibly supportive of the tech sector
because they see the value for their economy. Just to
give perspective on this, Israel is the third largest tech
hub by capital raised, and it's only behind Silicon Valley
here in the United States and New York City.
S1 (08:07):
Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. Who would have thought?
S2 (08:10):
I know.
S1 (08:11):
Well, let's talk beyond technology. Um, what other sectors might
be attractive to investors invested there?
S2 (08:19):
And we talk a lot about financials a little bit earlier.
Their concept of debt is just extremely important. You can't
undervalue that because here in the United States we get
bogged down so much in government spending right now. Doge
is in the news all the time trying to cut
spending and this and that. But, um, you know, here
in the US, we have a challenge with our national debt.
(08:40):
And over there, their cultural spirit that they just do not, uh,
do not seek to take out debt really just lends
their financials to be great investments. And then outside of that,
I mean, there are there are just a number of
companies that are doing things. We discussed cherry tomatoes. They
invented drip irrigation over there as well, things like that.
(09:00):
So it's it's things that we see in our everyday
life that come out of such a small country. And
it all goes back to that entrepreneurial spirit that they have.
S1 (09:08):
Yeah. Well, I know they're working on exporting a lot
of these products as well. And that goes back to
the tech sector there and even intersects with some of
our U.S. companies. Talk to us about how successful they
are at exporting.
S2 (09:21):
Yeah, Israel's incredibly successful in exporting. Over 50% of their
total exports are tech, if you can believe that. Um,
particularly Apple invested in Israeli tech startups, uh, a number
of years ago. Um, they bought a company called Primesense. Um,
Apple's bought another company called Anobit, an Israeli semiconductor firm
(09:42):
that contributed to enhancing storage for Apple's stuff, really. You know,
being over there and seeing it. You have all of
these tech companies Apple, Google, Amazon, meta, and they're all
they're looking for the next big thing. And um, and
absorbing them into their companies. And so you can easily
see why so much of their exports is made out
(10:03):
of out of tech. And so they're very friendly to it.
S1 (10:06):
What about Israel's relations with other countries? How is that
impacting investments there?
S2 (10:12):
Yes. It's been it's been good. Uh, we had, you know,
remember a couple of years ago, the Abraham Accords came
about and really normalized relationships with them and other Middle
East countries. Obviously, their relationship with the US is great
or we wouldn't have all of our, our biggest tech
companies over there in the first place. Um, but really
looking forward to this year. It seems like, uh, normalizing
(10:33):
relationships with Saudi Arabia is on the table as well
as as the war draws to a close. And so
we know Israel for the enemies that they have around them.
But by and large, the countries that are there around
them are very supportive.
S1 (10:45):
Yeah. What about venture capital? Um, do they have a
strong venture capital presence and how does that relate to investing?
S2 (10:53):
Absolutely, Rob. I mean, Israel has more than 276 active
venture capital funds. And, you know, we've already talked about
how Israel is really only second to Silicon Valley in
New York. But this shows no signs of slowing down
as year over year, the market really continues to expand.
And as recent as 2019, Israeli companies were considered more
(11:14):
popular than their American peers. And this is really interesting. Uh,
investment in Israeli startups grew by 140% from 2014 to 2018,
and in the US at the same time frame that
was 64% so wildly, wildly popular in the venture capital presence,
for sure.
S1 (11:33):
Yeah. Well, let's talk about the fund at Timothy Plan,
because I know you all make it really easy to
invest in Israel. And your fund is the Israel Common
Values Mutual Fund. What do our listeners need to know
about that?
S2 (11:46):
It's a unique fund, as I kind of discussed before.
It's one that's not really present in your general international space.
So if you're investing in a broad international fund, you
probably don't have any Israel exposure in there. But what
I love about having a mutual fund that has active
management on it is that you're able to really react
(12:07):
in real time to what is going on. So when
you have issues like the war that occurred here, um,
you have a manager that's looking over this to to
trim your exposures to financials, if that's going to be
an issue there. Um, you know, it's there are some
ETFs out there that are more passive. And they, um,
they do invest in Israeli companies, maybe not all domiciled
in Israel. I think the other thing that really makes
(12:29):
the Timothy Plan Fund unique is that, um, at a minimum,
at least 80% of the companies in that portfolio do
have to be domiciled in Israel as well. So that
combined with active management, uh, you know, you look at
the performance and the way things have gone, um, you know,
it's really interesting watching how last year drew to a close,
(12:50):
you know, the fund. Well, the Israel Stock exchange itself
was up over 20%. And and much of that really
occurred in the second half of the year. So things
can turn very quickly over there as as the country
really normalizes relationships, the war comes to a close and
it could be a really exciting space for investors.
S1 (13:11):
Yeah. No doubt. And just like everything at Timothy plan,
I assume this fund, like the others, are screened for
Christian values, right?
S2 (13:18):
Absolutely. Every company is screened for the same values from
abortion and pornography and on down to ensure that Christians
get to invest with their values and at the same
time support a country that is is near and dear
to many of our hearts here.
S1 (13:34):
Yeah. Very good. How can folks get more information, Brian?
S2 (13:37):
Oh, they can absolutely check it out on the website.
Timothy plan.com. We have a section for Israel. We also
have some pieces out there on on why to invest
in Israel and why someone should consider it. So that's
something they can take a look at there as well.
S1 (13:51):
Excellent. Well, I appreciate the deep dive today. We're grateful
for our partnership with Timothy Plan and the great things
you've been doing in the faith based investing space for
a long time. Thanks for your time today.
S2 (14:01):
Thank you Rob. Happy to be here.
S1 (14:02):
That's Brian, member vice president for regional sales at the
Timothy Plan, a pioneer and leader in the faith based
investing movement and a partner here at Faith and finance.
Check him out. Timothy. plan.com. Back with your questions after this.
The number 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. Stick around.
S3 (14:32):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants are given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:57):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live. I'm Rob West, looking forward to taking your
calls and questions today. And boy, there's a lot of
calls and questions. Our lines are jam packed, so we'll
be headed to those calls here in just a moment.
Coming up in our final segment today, Jerry Bowyer stops by.
We'll we always look forward to Jerry's visit today in
particular because of the the roller coaster that was Wall
(15:20):
Street this week. We did finish on a positive. You
might call it a green note green meaning up positive.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average up 620 points, about 1.5%.
The S&P 500 a little better than that, up nearly 2%.
The Nasdaq up just beyond 2%. That's good. Uh, that, uh,
(15:42):
caps off one of the most volatile weeks on Wall
Street ever. And that's, of course, due to the tariffs,
the prospect of recession, what's going on in the bond market.
Just some of the disruptions on an economy that's still,
for all intents and purposes, still chugging along at a
pretty good clip. We had great jobs number last week.
(16:02):
We had good inflation data on the consumer side. More
good news on inflation in that it's coming down today
on the producer side. So all of that is good. However,
all of that data is looking in the rear view mirror.
That's March and we know the world has changed a bit.
Economically speaking, in these first 11 days of April, none
(16:24):
of that is reflected in those numbers. So is this
disruption causing us to head for what is possibly a
recession that perhaps we would have missed previously? Or is
this just setting the stage for a more pro-growth economy
as we level the playing field with regard to our
trading partners, and we deal with the China situation, which
(16:46):
has erupted into a trade war, although it may be
short lived. And how is all of that going to
affect the US as a place to invest for foreigners?
What about our markets and our economy? Jerry will weigh
in on all of that in our final segment today.
But in the meantime, let's take your calls and questions.
What's most important to you is what's going on in
your economy. So let's dive into those. First up is
(17:08):
Jaquinta in Chicago. Go right ahead.
S4 (17:12):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call.
S1 (17:14):
You're welcome. Thank you for calling.
S4 (17:17):
I was calling because I have a, um, a 401
k that I have at somewhere. I used to work
about 15 years ago. Um, actually, as a university. University
of Illinois, Chicago. It's about. I want to say, the
last time I checked, about $15,000 in there, but I
have not been at that job for over 15 years,
and I just left it there to grow. And I
(17:39):
want to know, is it a good idea to move it?
I should move it to like currently I'm working and
I have a 401 K, should I combine them or
should I just leave it there? It was actually kind
of different because it's a SaaS system. I think that
stands for State and University Retirement System. I think it's
the same thing as a 401 K. So I just
left it there and should I move it to what
(18:00):
I have or just let it grow there?
S1 (18:02):
Yeah. So your new job you have a 401 K
there correct.
S4 (18:07):
Yes.
S1 (18:08):
Okay. Yeah. You know I generally recommend that, especially with
the kind of balance we're talking about. Not that that
is insignificant $15,000. It's a lot of money, but it's not,
you know, 150,000, um, where you might get an advisor
to manage that separately. So I think rolling that into
your new 401 K creates just a little bit more simplicity.
(18:28):
It's not another count to keep up with. You know,
you can unify the investments. So whatever investments you've selected
in your 401 K, this new money would automatically go
into that. And then when you get closer to retirement,
you separate from your employer to whatever God has for
you in that season of life. Then you could consider
rolling it to an IRA and having someone manage it
(18:51):
for you, which is what I would recommend. Now, what
you may find, though, is that depending on exactly what
type of account it is, it's probably a pre-tax retirement account,
but it may or may not be a 401 K,
and therefore it may or may not be able to
be rolled in to your existing 401 K. So your
first question would be to your plan administrator with your
(19:15):
current 401 K providing them the details on exactly what
you have with your previous employer and asking that question.
They will be able to quickly tell you yes or no.
If the answer is yes, that's the direction I would go.
S4 (19:28):
Okay.
S5 (19:29):
All right. Okay. Thank you very much.
S1 (19:31):
You are so welcome. Thank you for calling. Call any time.
To Wisconsin. Hi, John. How can I help?
S6 (19:36):
Hi. Uh, thanks for taking my call.
S1 (19:39):
You're welcome.
S6 (19:40):
I had, uh, received the other day a, uh. I
guess you would call it IRA for my mom maybe
inherited thing. And it's going to be taxable. It's going
to be used up in ten years, which you may know.
And I have a, like a $84,000 mortgage. And I
was just wondering, um, what could I maybe do in
(20:02):
that aspect of it? Should I pay that off or
should I? I have a 3.7, uh, uh, interest on
the mortgage, and I didn't know if it was better
to continue to invest, and you know what I mean,
or pay it.
S1 (20:18):
Yeah, I sure do. Yeah. So a couple of questions.
What is your age, John?
S6 (20:22):
Uh, I'm going to be 70in about three years.
S1 (20:25):
Okay. Yeah. And so are you. Fully retired?
S6 (20:29):
Yeah.
S1 (20:30):
Okay. Yeah. And so, um, you have a mortgage of
about 85,000. And how much is in this inherited IRA?
S6 (20:37):
Well, with, uh, before, right now, it's fluctuating because my
mom had a high risk, so, uh, 70% in high risk,
and it still is. I haven't changed anything yet because
it dropped out the other day. Of course, you know. And, um,
so it'll be about 100, 190, something like that to
drop down to 170, so.
S1 (20:57):
Okay. Got it. Yeah. And you're not expecting any kind
of changes in your tax bracket? Uh, I mean, apart
from the tax rate's changing. Your income is not. You
don't anticipate that changing in the next five years or so.
S6 (21:10):
No. Not really.
S1 (21:12):
No. Yeah, I would say, because you have to take
this out anyway. I like the idea of you being
debt free now. I mean, one consideration is your mortgage
is low. And so if you just wanted to pay
it out and keep this invested. You know, whether or
not you pull this money out and then reinvest it
(21:32):
in a taxable environment where the taxes would be a
drag on it, but you still shouldn't have much trouble
beating that 3.75. I think that's a consideration. But if
you would just have more peace of mind knowing I
own my home, it's free and clear regardless of the
low interest rate, then I'd go that direction. Let's finish
up on the other side of this break. Stay right there, John.
(21:52):
We'll be right back. Thanks for joining us today on
Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We're taking your
calls and questions today. All the lines are full. So
let's dive right back in. Before the break we were
talking to John in Wisconsin. Uh he's 70. He has
an inherited IRA from his mom. He has to deplete
(22:16):
that because of the rules on, uh, the the latest
legislation that requires that be depleted within ten years has
to be completely pulled out and therefore tax is paid
on it. He's wondering if he should pay down his mortgage.
He's got more than, uh, than the value of the mortgage,
which is about $85,000 in the IRA. The mortgage is
(22:36):
at 3.75. He's wondering if he should invest it or
use the money to pay down the mortgage. Um, so, John,
are you just talk to me about kind of how
strongly your desire is to be completely debt free versus
you just kind of finding which makes the most financial sense.
S6 (22:56):
Well, I'm okay with making the payments if it's better to, uh,
work the market. There's another aspect, uh, maybe kind of
called kind of prematurely, but there is another part of
this that's going to be in a trust, and it
may be about the same amount or approximate, and that
I don't know what that percentage is. That may be
(23:16):
a lot less. Maybe you know more about that as
far as the trust.
S1 (23:21):
No, I mean, the trust could be any amount. So
this is coming from her estate?
S6 (23:25):
Yeah.
S1 (23:27):
Okay. And so she passed away recently, and it's just
not settled.
S6 (23:31):
Right, right.
S1 (23:32):
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that that trust obviously could
be any amount of money, but that's not a tax
deferred environment. I mean, here's my thought. I mean, unless
you're just really set on being debt free. And if
you were, I mean, there's no problem with that. That's
actually a good thing. But, you know, I would say,
all right, let's look to pay this off just as
soon as possible. But if you're comfortable hanging on to
the mortgage, you got a low interest rate. You can
(23:53):
easily make the payments you're just looking for. What's the
thing that makes the most financial sense? I would say
certainly don't sell that portfolio right now with the market
doing what it's doing. Let's kind of let this run
its course, even though you have to take it out
in ten years. And if she had already been taken
or required minimums you have to keep those up. Are
(24:13):
you going to have to take required minimums each year?
S6 (24:17):
Well, I think so because we just took one now
and that was 14. So I just took that and
11 with with, you know, taxes out.
S1 (24:26):
Okay. Yeah. So, you know, obviously you could use that
to pay it down even though that would be a
little bit slower. Um, you know, and so I think
with regard to this IRA, um, you know, I'd probably
let this stay invested. It's just a phenomenal opportunity in
that tax deferred environment to take advantage of the growth
(24:46):
that will come regardless of what the market does. We
still have a fairly long time horizon. Um, and so
let that money continue to work for you, even if
you were to once this market recovers a little bit,
you know, maybe reposition it if you feel like it's
a little too aggressive. Now that you're the steward, you
don't have to keep her investment mix. You may want
to get just a bit more conservative, but the idea
(25:08):
that even though you've got ten years and you're going
to have to take those qualified or required minimums, I
don't know that I'd rush to pull it out just
because that that tax favored environment is pretty attractive, so
I'd probably kind of let this ride and only take
it out as you need to.
S6 (25:25):
Okay. And then the trust, when that comes that you
don't think I don't think there'll be much tax on that.
So maybe I'd use that for the house instead.
S1 (25:33):
Exactly. And so that that would be after tax dollars probably.
And uh, you know, that would be a great option
for you. Um, because then that money again. Yeah. Has
already had taxes paid on it, if any, unless you
hold it and you have capital gains. Um, and so
that would probably be the source of funds I would
use to pay down that mortgage for sure. And at
(25:54):
the very least, let's wait and get clarity on how
much you're going to get there.
S6 (25:58):
Okay. I can always check back, uh, but, uh, otherwise,
it sounds like it should be good.
S1 (26:03):
Excellent. Well, we appreciate your call, John. Hey, stay on
the line. I want to send you a gift. A
copy of our latest edition of our Faithful Steward magazine.
Just as a thanks for being on the program today.
We appreciate your call. Uh, Johnny is in Miami. Johnny.
Go ahead. Head.
S7 (26:18):
Yes. Thank you. Ron. I appreciate you taking my call. Uh,
contributing to a employer 457 B plan. I have that
going into Roth. Uh, those funds going into a Roth plant.
And I'd like. I'm contributing the maximum amount. I'm married
(26:42):
over 50. Uh, I'd like to know on top of that,
can I also open up a personal Roth IRA and
a traditional Roth IRA?
S1 (26:59):
Yeah. Uh. You can. Yes. So, alongside a company sponsored plan,
like a 457, 401 K or 403 B, you can
also have an IRA, and you can have both a
Roth and a traditional. The key would be you cannot
contribute more than the the contribution limit for the year
(27:22):
among all of the IRAs that you have. Um, so
for 2025, what is your age?
S7 (27:29):
Uh, 63.
S1 (27:31):
Okay. So, uh, you would be able to use the
catch up provision over the age of 50, which would
allow you to put in a total of 8000. So
in addition to whatever you're putting in the 457, you'd
be able to put in up to 8000 across any
number of IRAs. So if you wanted to put 4000
in a traditional and 4000 in a Roth, you could
(27:51):
do that. You want to put 8001 nothing in the other.
The key is across all the IRAs that you have, uh,
Roth or traditional, you can't put more than $8,000 as
somebody who's 50 or older in the year 2025.
S7 (28:07):
Okay. So this is, uh, this 8000 That's not included
in my 457. Wrong.
S1 (28:19):
Right. The 457 wrath is is completely different. That's a
company sponsored retirement plan or a government sponsored plan. Uh,
but it's different. It's just the Roth variety, but it's
different from an individual retirement account. Roth. Uh, and so
you can have both. Yes.
S7 (28:37):
Okay. Right. So the personal Roth IRA and a traditional
combined can only be up to 8000.
S1 (28:48):
Uh, yes. It's for the IRA, which I stands for. Individual. Yes.
So that's not the company's plan. The IRA individual retirement account.
The total for the year this year happens to be 8000.
If you're 50 or older. And the key there would
be you've got to have, uh, a modified adjusted gross
income under 150,000, in order to be eligible to, to
(29:12):
put it into the Roth IRA.
S7 (29:15):
Okay. Okay. Thank you very much, Ron.
S1 (29:18):
All right. Absolutely, sir. Thanks for your call today. Uh,
let's see, we're going to, uh, go quickly to, uh,
Kathy in Minnesota. Hi, Kathy.
S8 (29:27):
Hi, Rob. Thanks so much for taking my call.
S1 (29:30):
Sure.
S8 (29:30):
I have a question on an appreciable life insurance policy
that I have. Um, my husband and I are both
65 years of age. Uh, we no longer need the
death benefit of this policy. It does have a cash
value of 45 five. So I'm wondering if we would
(29:51):
be better off just getting rid of this policy, taking
the cash, making better use of the funds. A couple
options we're looking at are investment into the markets since
we could certainly buy low at this point. Yep. Or
we have a second property that has a mortgage balance
of 50,000.
S1 (30:12):
Yeah, I like that a lot because I think you
could perhaps do some other things with it. You've named
a couple of options. You just want to check the
taxes so that doesn't catch you by surprise. Anything you
cash out that's above what you paid in premiums is
going to be taxable to you. But if you don't
need the death benefit and you've got other places, you
can deploy that and you don't need to convert it
(30:33):
to an annuity for an income stream. Uh, at this point,
I like the idea of you considering cashing it out
because you no longer need the death benefit, and you
could accomplish your retirement goals by deploying it elsewhere. Just
make sure you check into any surrender penalties. You shouldn't
have them because of how old it is and the taxes.
We'll be right back. Hey, thanks for joining us today
(30:59):
on Faith and Finance Live, helping you to see God
as your ultimate treasure. By the way, if you love
the broadcast, maybe you've found something helpful to you in
your financial life. We'd like to invite you to become
a faithful partner. This is the, uh, hundreds of folks
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this message by supporting the ministry at $35 a month.
And one way we say thank you is to provide
(31:21):
resources that will encourage you and your stewardship journey, including
our new quarterly magazine, Faithful Steward. The next issue comes
out in May, and there are some incredible content in there. Uh, also,
we send you pre-release copies of any new studies and
devotions we come up with two a year. Our next
study comes out in May as well. So new partners
(31:42):
will get both, uh, and existing partners. It's, uh, called
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think it could be really meaningful in your own stewardship journey.
If you want to become a partner and help us
reach more people, just head to faith. Com and click give.
That's faith. Philly.com and click give. Jerry Boyer standing by.
(32:04):
We're looking forward to getting his thoughts on the markets
here straight ahead. But first Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Linda. How
can I help?
S9 (32:11):
Hi. Thank you. Um, we have some friends that have
asked us to give us, um, to give them a
letter of giftedness to help them buy a home. They're
asking for $17,000, for which they have $17,000 in cash
that they will exchange for our check immediately, and we
(32:32):
don't understand why they can't. We said, well, why don't
you just give them the cash, you know, and they said, no,
they can't. The the loan company will not allow them
to do that. So we're not sure if there's a
reason if we would do this, we'll be will we
be causing ourselves difficulties or them.
S1 (32:49):
Well, yeah. And I'm not exactly. I mean, this is
not uncommon. So here's the way this normally works. I mean,
normally if I were going to buy a house and
I didn't have the money to buy it, and I
call a friend like you and I say, listen, um,
you know, I don't have the money to buy this house.
Can you loan me $17,000 and I'll pay it back?
(33:11):
You know, over time and all of a sudden, you
give me 17,000. Then the lender wants to know that
you essentially have have taken out another loan for the
purpose of being able to buy this house, and therefore,
you don't really have the money. And so what they
typically want is a gift letter from the person giving
(33:32):
you the money saying, listen, we're giving you this money
as a straight gift. This is a family member or
a friend. This is your money. Keep it. And we're
not expecting repayment. And then that gives the lender the
confidence to say, okay, it's not like there's a second
loan out there. This person actually does have the money
that they're, you know, putting down on the house. We're
(33:53):
going to do our underwriting to make sure we feel
like they're a a good risk for the rest of
it that we're loaning them. But at least we know that,
you know, the money they're getting is a down payment
that we see just came into the account in the
last 90 days or whatever. Um, you know, is not
expected to be repaid. And therefore now there's two loans,
essentially one personal and one conventional. Um, and so that's
(34:15):
typically the way this works. There's something awry here with
regard to them asking you for the for the gift letter,
because you're not actually making them a gift. Uh, they're
giving you the money back. And I'm trying to figure
out exactly what that would be in terms of if
they've already got the money and they're trying to justify
how they got it, I suspect. And I'm just guessing here,
(34:38):
maybe they borrowed it from somebody else that does expect repayment.
And they're going to use your exchange of 17,000 and
your gift letter, um, you know, to justify it, which
obviously any of those scenarios are wrong because it's just
not true. Right, right. Yeah. So I would stay far
(34:58):
from this. Go ahead.
S9 (35:00):
I was going to say they are, from another country
that deals in cash only. And so I think that
that probably is part of the issue, but we just
don't know how that's going to come down on us
or them.
S1 (35:14):
Um, well, and I think at the end of the day,
you just need to say, listen, we're willing to help,
but we're not going to put we're not going to
say something that's not true. And so, you know, you
providing a letter saying you made a gift when you didn't.
You just exchanged checks. That's not a gift. Um, I
think that's where you need to. That's the showstopper as
far as I'm concerned.
S9 (35:35):
Okay. And they should just tell the I mean, again,
the fact that they've got the money, is there some
way that they can convince the loan company or they're just.
S1 (35:45):
Yeah. I mean, there's something there that's tripping the loan
company up as to the source of funds. And I'm
sure there's any number of scenarios as to what that is.
And the fact that they're coming from out of the country,
you know, further complicates things. And so they're just trying
to appease the requests on the underwriting of here's all
the things we need, and that's one of them, and
they're trying to figure out a way to get that.
(36:06):
But I just don't think you guys can be involved in,
you know, attesting to something that doesn't actually represent what's
really going on here.
S10 (36:14):
Right, right.
S9 (36:15):
Okay. Well, thank you very much for your answer.
S1 (36:17):
All right, Linda, appreciate your call very much. Thanks for
being on today. Well, here in our final segment, Jerry
Bowyer is with us. Jerry is our resident economist. And man,
really looking forward to hearing Jerry's take on the markets
and the economy. Jerry, you heard that last question. Anything
I'm missing there?
S11 (36:32):
No, I think that's that's spot on. I mean, you
have to be honest in your dealings. That's a really
important thing, right? Not just shrewd and clever in business,
but also honest in your dealings.
S1 (36:44):
Yeah, no doubt about it. All right, Jerry, it's been
a busy week. You could call it a roller coaster. Uh,
you know, we've, uh, volatility is the order of the day. Uh,
this was in, I mean, very much self-induced, right. Because
the market or. Excuse me, the me, the economy is
clipping along here. Even though we've said you've said for
some time there's clearly signs that it's slowing. I mean,
(37:06):
you know, the jobs data last week on top of the,
you know, lower PPI and CPI, we're still in a
fairly good position. But all of that was, you know,
as of ten days ago. And the world has changed
since then. Huh?
S11 (37:20):
Yes, exactly. That's backward looking. So there were tariffs were
not in place yet. There was the threat of tariffs.
There were tweets last month. Well, tweets are not going
to change wholesale prices. Um, so you know whatever tax
increases that excuse me, whatever price increases we see from
the tax increases we're going to see later on. Yeah. And,
(37:40):
you know, I've been thinking a lot about this. I
don't know if people have heard of Smoot-Hawley. Um, if
you're a fan of Ferris Bueller's Day Off when he's
sitting in class, um, you know, the teacher is explaining
Smoot-Hawley and his role in the Great Depression. Um, and
just this reminds me so much of this. So Smoot-Hawley
was a tariff package that was working its way through
the Congress. Through Congress in the 1920s and the day
(38:04):
of the great sell off. You know, the market crash
that morning. The, uh, the story in the New York
Times was that nine senators who had been anti-tariff had
switched to pro tariff. And so that made that it
looked like Smoot-Hawley was going to pass. Uh, and markets
sold off immediately. And then it's interesting, um, and my friend,
(38:27):
the late Jude Wanniski, has kind of written like day
by day as there's different headlines. Is Smoot-Hawley tariff. Is
it going to pass? Is it not going to pass?
When it seems like it's going to pass, markets go
down and it seems like it's not going to pass.
Markets go up. And we're reliving that right now from
week to week. Tweet to tweet. Uh you know, what's
going to happen is are we going to have a
trade war. Maybe. But maybe not. Oh, wait a minute. Uh,
(38:51):
Rand Paul is doing legislation which would take tariff power
away from the from the president, which really it doesn't
belong with the president, right? The you know, that's always
been a congressional function. And markets are moving back and
forth based on whether they think these tariffs are going
to be around for a long time. And it's fascinating
to see what happened in 1929 playing out again now
(39:11):
in 2025. And we've forgotten it by the way, we
have a trade war about every 100 years, right? 1820s, 1920s, 2020s,
because it seems like that's how long it takes to
completely forget what happened with the last trade war. Um,
and I know a lot of people kind of on
(39:31):
Main Street are saying not Main Street, really. Politicians are saying, well,
that's Wall Street, not Main Street. And people were saying
that in 2008 as well. Markets were going down a
lot in 2008, but in 2008 the economy itself was
reasonably strong. Um, 2009 the economy was terrible. So the
market moves before the economy. And in 2008, I was saying,
(39:55):
it's sort of like watching an atomic bomb go off
from a distance. You see the flash, and then ten
minutes later you feel the shockwave. Markets are the flash.
They're looking forward and then the shock. Now, that's probably
a little too scary an analogy because the president is
is kind of backing off from some of the tariffs.
(40:15):
But it's just as a general principle markets are looking
ahead at the economy. Wall Street and Main Street are
not detached from one another. But Wall Street is forward looking.
Wall Street adjusts for what they think you know. Markets
adjust for what they think is coming before it hits
Main Street. So a lot of people were dismissive in 2008. Oh,
(40:38):
that's just the stock market. It hasn't affected me. In
2009 it affected everybody. Same thing with Covid markets crashed.
Hasn't affected me yet, but then it affected everybody. We
as a society, we've got to get past some idea
that markets are different than people, and the markets are
different than the economy. And Wall Street is a different
street than Main Street. We're all in this together. We're
(40:59):
all in God's plan. We're interrelated to one another as
a nation. Uh, and markets have been signaling something significant
that I think we need to take seriously now. Thankfully,
the president has backed off a lot. At least he's
done a 90 day pause. And I think that's because
he's looking at markets. I think that some of his advisers,
like Peter Navarro, who I've known a long time, said,
(41:21):
you know, Mr. President, this is great for the economy.
And if you you start a trade war. Markets will
go up. And instead they erased $7 trillion. And the
president is a pragmatist. And I think that pragmatist president
looked at that and said, hmm, maybe I need to
start listening to some of the other advisers rather than
the advisers, who told me that markets will applaud my
(41:43):
trade war.
S1 (41:44):
Yeah. And the Treasury secretary seems clearly to be saying
this is about getting people to the table and therefore
we can negotiate these away and the level, the playing
field and end up with a much better scenario for
the US. Moving forward, we could talk about what that
means if that's what happens, Jerry, is that ultimately long
(42:04):
term a good thing?
S11 (42:06):
Absolutely. Ultimately, long term that's a good thing. But I
will say the world is a market. The whole world
is going to be a little skeptical because this was
a reckless couple of weeks, and we're all going to
be a little wary for a while about the volatility
of leadership.
S1 (42:20):
Yeah. All right. But if you're an investor you stay
the course. You don't make any changes because of the
last two weeks right.
S11 (42:26):
No no of course not. You have to bet on
human productivity because that's what we're made for.
S1 (42:31):
Yeah that's right. Jerry always appreciate it. We'll get some
more thoughts next week. God bless you, my friend.
S12 (42:37):
God bless you.
S1 (42:38):
All right. Thanks to Lisa. Jim. Dan Anthony certainly couldn't
do this without him. Faith and finance is a partnership
between Moody Radio and Faith fi. Have a great weekend.
We'll see you next week. Bye bye.
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