November 17, 2025 • 42 mins
2 Corinthians 6:14 states, “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?” The Apostle Paul’s warning is often applied to marriage, but what does it mean for business partnerships? On the next Faith & Finance Live, Ron Blue joins Rob West to unpack both the biblical and practical wisdom behind this question. Then, it’s your calls. That’s Faith & Finance Live, weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:10):
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership
has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has life with darkness?
Second Corinthians 614. Hi, I'm Rob West. The Apostle Paul's
warning is often applied to marriage, but it also speaks
to any relationship that joins our values with others. So
what does it mean for business partnerships? Today, Ron Blue
(00:33):
joins us to unpack both biblical and practical wisdom behind
this question. Then it's on to your calls at 800
525 7000. This is faith and finance. Live biblical wisdom
for your financial decisions. Well, we can always say class
is in session when Ron Blue joins us. Ron's the
co-founder of Kingdom Advisors, a much in demand author and
(00:57):
speaker and a personal mentor of mine. Ron, great to
have you back.
S2 (01:01):
It's always a pleasure, Rob. Good to be with you.
S1 (01:04):
Rob. Let's dive into this passage. Paul wasn't just talking
about marriage in that particular passage, was he?
S2 (01:12):
No. Talking about partnerships. And there are so many kinds
of partnerships. Uh, you know, you see it most likely
in the professions that are typically organized as partnerships. But
you can have businesses also that have multiple partners and owners.
So partnerships can last a long time. I spoke to my,
(01:34):
the CPA firm that I founded not long ago, and
they've been a partnership for 50 years and still operating
as a partnership. So interesting business partnerships and other types
of partnerships also.
S1 (01:47):
Yeah that's helpful. Ron, what I've appreciated so much about
your teaching, among other things, is that you've taught us
principles that are transferable. What principles guided you and your
experience with partnerships?
S2 (02:01):
Well, I got this question a lot. Rob, over the years,
and probably the most significant illustration is let's say you
have two ob-gyns who want to go into partnership, one
a believer and one not one who believes in abortion
and one not. And I was asked many times about
that type of relationship. And I always said, there's a
(02:23):
couple of things to think about from a principle standpoint.
And the first thing is, what will it do to
your testimony to be in partnership with somebody that you're
unequally yoked with? And only you and God can answer that.
But that's a really big question, because you could lose
your testimony by the partnership that you're in. And the
(02:43):
second thing is that partnerships a lot of times go sour.
It's like marriages. 50% of them end up in divorce. Well,
I don't know what the percentage is, but a lot
of partnerships end up dissipating. And so I always advised,
have your exit strategy in place before you form a partnership,
so that either one can get out of the relationship
(03:07):
in an equitable basis and maintain their testimony if they're
the believer that's leaving that partnership. Yes. The other thing
that it does, if you have an exit strategy, you
avoid a lot of the conflict that can come from
the separation of any partnership. Just like a marriage. But
it's the same thing in a business.
S1 (03:28):
Yes.
S2 (03:29):
And I always also said thirdly that remember the most
critical thing that you want to preserve, assuming that you've
got a business that has a testimony already. You want
the testimony to live beyond the relationship. Mhm. Um, and
you know, uh, this financial planning firm that I had started,
(03:52):
that was a partnership and I left after 23 years,
but nobody left, uh, with me because they were committed
to the mission.
S1 (04:02):
Yes.
S2 (04:03):
And that's what you really want to see happen. And
you also want to see that the exit strategy makes
sense economically to everybody. Mhm. So that you don't find
yourself in conflict uh, and uh, over the terms of the,
of the exit strategy. So those are just three principles
that I used to talk about with people when I've
(04:25):
been asked those questions.
S1 (04:26):
Ron, that's such wise counsel and a great reminder that
shared faith isn't just good for business. It's essential for
a lasting witness. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us today.
S2 (04:37):
Oh, good to be with you, Rob. Thanks for having me.
S1 (04:39):
That was Ron Blue sharing insights from his article in
the latest issue of Faithful Steward Magazine, a quarterly publication
sent exclusively to faith by partners who support our mission.
And right now, when you become a Faith V partner
before December 31st. You'll receive our brand new devotional when
it's released, entitled Our Ultimate Treasure, along with Faithful Steward
(05:01):
and other special benefits. Learn more at Faith 5.com. That's faith.
Your calls are next at 800 525 7000. That's 800
525 7000. I'm Rob West and this is Faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back.
S3 (05:35):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific Situation.
S1 (05:59):
Glad to have you with us today on faith and
finance live. Boy, what a treat to have my good
friend and mentor Ron Blue on the radio today. Ron
is always full of practical wisdom. And you know, perhaps
that opening topic today is one you haven't considered, you know,
in marriage to become one for life. It's about unity. Uh,
(06:20):
joining together as one flesh. But that's not the case
in other partnerships. In fact, in a business relationship, the
very best thing you can do is often to anticipate
the end before you even start. How would we exit
the relationship? Especially to Ron's point if your testimony is
compromised in any way. And so thinking about those off ramps.
(06:42):
So if God redirects, if the business doesn't perform as expected,
whatever it might be, that you can treat each other
with integrity. You can be fair, but you can also
create a win win situation. Something as simple as how
are we going to value the business at such a
time as somebody wants to exit? Planning in advance for
those things can be really key. But as Ron said,
(07:04):
certainly these principles we see, and the admonition from the
Apostle Paul in Scripture applies to really any partnership. And
so we need to take steps as Christ followers, if
we are joined in business with an unbeliever to make
sure there is no possibility that your witness could be affected,
your testimony as a result of that relationship. I hope
(07:26):
that was helpful today. Hey, we want to turn the
corner and answer your questions on anything financial. Uh, the
number to call today with lines open is 800 525 7000.
Again you can call right now 800 525 7000. We'd
love to tackle those questions for you today. We'll try
to get you on the air quickly once again. That
number with lines open is 800 525 five 7000. Before
(07:50):
we dive into the phones today in the news, gold
has delivered dazzling returns in 2025. But for many investors, well,
that shine may fade when tax season arrives. Gold futures
hit a record 4000 an ounce in October and despite
a brief pullback, the metal is up still nearly 50%
year to date, trading at around $4,100 an ounce physical
(08:13):
gold ETF. So that would be the spider gold shares,
the iShares Gold Trust and even physical gold shares have
surged alongside it. By comparison, the S&P 500 is up
about 15% this year. Now, these gains follow gold's strongest
annual performance since 2010. But tax experts warn the IRS
(08:36):
doesn't treat gold the same way it treats stocks and bonds.
This reality is catching some investors off guard, so we
want you to be prepared. While long term capital gains
on traditional investments top out at 20%. Physical gold and
gold backed ETFs are taxed as collectibles. They have a
higher 28% long term rate. Other funds, those holding gold
(09:01):
futures contracts, rather than physical bullion, follow yet another structure.
It's called the 60 over 40 rule. 60% of gains
are taxed at long term rates and 40% at short
term rates, leading top bracket investors to face a blended
rate of about, well, almost 27%. Now, not all gold
(09:23):
investments are taxed the same, and higher income investors are
more likely to feel the difference. However, these rules apply
not only to gold again that you hold, but to
also to those ETFs. What they do not apply though,
to is gold held in an IRA that is of
course shielded from the taxes. So what is the takeaway? Well,
(09:47):
strong returns are encouraging. But why? Stewardship means understanding the
tax implications before you sell. Now speaking of tax implications
before you sell, don't forget that the donor advised fund
could be a great tool here. If you're holding gold
outside of a retirement account and you're wanting to do
some charitable giving, especially here at year end. What if
you give the gold away into your donor advised fund
(10:11):
before you sell it? That way when you sell it,
you don't pay any capital gains. 100% of that money
goes in your donor advised fund. You get the deduction
for it for the full amount, and then you can
grant it out at your leisure. If you're going to
do that, whether it's gold or a business or piece
of art or appreciated stock, the donor advised fund is
a really powerful tool for that. And our friends at
(10:33):
the National Christian Foundation would be the place to go.
Because as long as you're at NCF, which, by the way,
going back to our opening topic, was founded by Ron
Blue and Larry Burkett, among others. Um, that's going to
ensure at NCF that the the sponsor never gets in
the way of you sending that money to a Christian ministry.
(10:54):
That's why NCF was founded. That may not be the
case with other donor advised fund sponsors. So if you
want to learn more or set up your donor advised
fund today, just head to faith. Com. That's faith fi.
It just takes a couple of minutes. All right. Let's
dive in. We're going to begin in Wisconsin today Andrew.
(11:14):
Go ahead.
S4 (11:16):
Um. Good afternoon. I have a student loan that I
took out for a child, son, and, um, a number
of years ago, and I paid on it quite a
bit for a long time, and then I had. I
just couldn't keep up with it. Um, now, it's been
quite a few years, and the amount has has been
(11:40):
increased to about $20,000. I'm only a couple years from
retirement and I cannot maintain paying on that through my
through my retirement. My question is, um, to two ideas. Um,
accessing my 401 K to I know there's penalties involved
(12:03):
just to get that thing cleared out, taken care of,
or the other option is to stop my 18% that
I put into 401 K, take 10% of that, um,
stop 10% and keep the 8% so that my company
I work for continues to, uh, match and take that 10%,
(12:25):
whatever that is per month, uh, or biweekly and take
that and throw that at the, um, at the, uh,
the loan. Now, I know that I'm, I don't think
there's any way that I'm going to have this thing
cleared off with my income and so on. So I'm
kind of at a loss of what to do.
S1 (12:44):
Yeah. Is this a parent plus loan? Andrew?
S4 (12:48):
Yes.
S1 (12:49):
Okay. So there are some options there. I mean, although
the Parent Plus loan isn't eligible for the new income
driven plans, they are eligible for essentially what's called income
contingent repayment. Uh, after you consolidate through the direct consolidation
loan program. And that could lower payments based on your income.
(13:10):
And then, you know, potentially even give you forgiveness after
25 years. Um, have you looked into that option?
S4 (13:20):
Uh, everything I've looked into. I have not been eligible for.
S1 (13:24):
Okay. All right. Well, you may want to just check, because.
S4 (13:27):
Yeah, I don't know why. Because I'm just not at
that level that I thought I would be able to
get some assistance with. But I've never been able to
get anything as well as, you know, the cancellation of
loans during the last administration. I just kind of followed
that along and went through some things that they had
told me they were going to do, and then they
never followed through with it. So I thought, well, maybe
that was it. I didn't really like it, but I
(13:52):
thought it was a possibility that that didn't pan out either.
S1 (13:55):
Yeah. Okay. Very good. Well, you know, I think the
key here is I would try to avoid using the
existing retirement funds for the reasons you mentioned. It's expensive money.
I want to keep it in that tax deferred environment.
I don't want to lose the opportunity cost. One option
is to look at the possibility of income contingent repayment
and just pay on this, you know, over throughout the
(14:17):
rest of your retirement, but at a lower amount after
you do the direct loan consolidation. But let's talk more
about that after this break. Stay right there, Andrew. We'll
pick it up on the other side. We'll be right back.
Helping you seek out is your ultimate treasure. Manage money
(14:37):
according to God's wisdom in the Bible. This is faith
and finance. Live. I'm Rob West. We've got some lines open.
If you have a question today, call 800 525 7000. Again,
that number is 800 525 7000. Before the break we
were talking to Andrew in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Uh, he
has an outstanding student loan, a parent plus loan he
(14:57):
took out. It's about 20,000. It's been growing. Uh, took
it out for one of his children. Uh, he's just
a few years away from retirement, wondering how he should
handle the debt. Uh, the child is not able to
take it on, and he would like to get out
from under it. He's wondering about the possibility of either
pulling out from a 401 K some money to pay
(15:18):
it off, or perhaps just reducing what he is putting
into the 401 K, staying at a minimum at that
portion that could be matched, but perhaps backing that contribution
down just to free up some excess funds to put
toward principal reduction. Uh, I would just say you absolutely
do have options with the parent plus loan. Um, it
(15:39):
has to be, though, consolidated into the direct consolidation loan.
So without that step, the loan services loan servicers will
often tell parents they, quote, don't qualify. But that's because
they're looking at the current low, not what becomes available
after the consolidation. Now, this is not a private consolidation.
This is through the federal loan program. It's the direct
(16:01):
consolidation loan. Once you do that, the parent plus loan
becomes eligible for the ICR, the income contingent repayment. And
they would base your payment then on your income. And
that usually reduces it significantly. And they forgive the remaining
balance after 25 years. So you know that would likely
(16:23):
be the, you know, the way you would want to go. Now,
if you want to pay it off before retirement, I
would say just try the best you can to dial
back your spending and contribute. I wouldn't pull out of
existing retirement contributions, and I'm really hesitant for you to
reduce those retirement contributions just because that's probably going to
(16:47):
be a very meaningful part of what you will need
to supplement Social Security to maintain your lifestyle in retirement.
You know, you only have a few years left every
year of compounding matters, and it's hard to quote catch
up later. So I wouldn't, you know, the best you
can sacrifice long term retirement stability just to accelerate the
(17:07):
federal loan that can be made manageable and should get
some forgiveness. So I really feel like that's the next option. Now,
if you, Andrew, say to me, listen, I just have
a conviction. I want to pay it off in full
as quick as I can. Then I would say, all right,
then let's back down the retirement contributions. But that would
be my second option to the to the others that
(17:28):
I mentioned. Does that make sense?
S4 (17:31):
Yes it does, it does. And I've, uh. I've always
paid off my debt, so this is kind of bothering
me that it's out there and and it got to
that position in the first place, so. Yeah.
S1 (17:45):
Well, I totally get it. At the end of the day.
You know, if you have a conviction just to get
this paid off in full, then I would say go
for it and don't look back. Um, but if you're
comfortable continuing just to kind of ride this out, um,
you know, you do have options available, but it is
going to require the direct loan consolidation first. Thanks for
your call today, sir. We appreciate you being on. Uh,
let's go to Cleveland. Hi, Lee. How can I help you?
S5 (18:08):
Hi. Um, I was just calling. I'm going to be retiring. Um, well,
close to retirement age. I'll be 62 next year in August.
And I was just wondering. I owe 119 on my home.
I work, uh, part time. My husband works full time.
(18:29):
I work part time. And I was wondering if I
should start collecting my Social Security to pay off that
house faster. And I would continue to work because I,
I don't make, um, I just work part time. So
I'm only making around 18 to 20,000 a year.
S1 (18:47):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, I would just say
starting Social Security at 62 is tempting, especially when money
is tight. But it's usually the most expensive decision you
can make in retirement. Uh, so first of all, it
comes with that permanent reduction of 25 to 30% lower
in terms of a smaller benefit, 25 to 30% for
(19:10):
life compared to your full retirement age. So that means
smaller checks every month. It also means smaller cost of
living increases. And if you live into your 80s or 90s,
which is highly likely, although only the Lord knows, um,
you know, you'll feel that reduction. Um, I would say second,
you fall below the earnings limit. Now, Um, you know,
(19:32):
but the real question is, can you afford that reduction forever? So,
you know, you're earning 17,000 a year so you wouldn't
be hit by the earnings penalty if you take it
at 62. But that, again, doesn't mean it's necessarily the small,
you know, the smartest move long term. Um, you know,
I hear you on being debt free by the time
(19:52):
you get to full retirement age. And I love that
idea of you being out of from under that once
and for all. You know, but again, forcing that smaller
Social Security benefit for life just to pay off the
home faster, you know, is not necessarily always the best option.
What is the interest rate on that mortgage?
S5 (20:13):
Um, I think it's around three something.
S1 (20:16):
Yeah. So a phenomenal interest rate that, you know, you're
more than double that today. And so that's very, you know,
inexpensive funds, especially given that you're going to get about
an 8% increase every year, only to pay off a
loan that's, you know, less than half of that quote
rate of return. Now, it assumes that you live long
(20:37):
enough to, you know, to collect everything you gave up
between 62 and 67. But assuming you do, uh, you know,
you've then got to check, you know, potentially as much
as 30% higher for the rest of your life. Um,
so I think what I would do is just try
to keep expenses lean right now, pay extra out of
current cash flow toward your car loan, try to get
(21:01):
that knocked off, and then, you know, you could roll
that money over toward the house trying to send an
extra payment or two a year. But I would prefer
that personally over you taking it early and locking in
that smaller benefit.
S5 (21:16):
Okay. Thank you very much. We have been paying a
little bit extra every month.
S1 (21:20):
So yeah that's great.
S5 (21:22):
Yeah.
S1 (21:23):
Love it. Well listen, Lee, I mean that's not a
definitive again. You know, there's not a right or wrong here.
It's just a few other things to think about as
you make this decision. But I think, you know, with
there is longevity risk, which is the idea that you're
going to live a long time, which we're living a
lot longer today than we were. And the key is
that higher check for the rest of your life. Uh,
(21:43):
you know, you're really going to appreciate, you know, in
your 80s and beyond. So thanks for being on the
program today. We appreciate your call, Greg. Coming your way
in Alabama right after this and Linda in Illinois. We'll
be right back. Stay with us. Thanks for joining us
(22:06):
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(22:27):
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(22:48):
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(23:09):
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(23:30):
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(23:52):
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in advance. All right, back to the phones we go. Uh,
Alabama is where Greg is located. Go ahead sir.
S6 (24:04):
Um, yeah, I'm going to be getting an insurance check, uh, soon, hopefully.
And I was just, um, wanting to know how I
can cash that without losing my son's disability.
S1 (24:17):
Okay, so the check is coming to you, not your son.
Is that right?
S6 (24:21):
Yeah. That's correct. But, like, um, they look at my
income and I got to report my income to them
to know what his supplement is.
S1 (24:30):
Sure. And what type of disability is it that he's getting?
S6 (24:36):
Um, it's not physical. It's like mental.
S1 (24:40):
Okay. But in terms of is this, uh, SSI or, um,
or is it SSDI?
S6 (24:49):
It's SSI.
S1 (24:50):
Okay. All right. Um, so with regard to SSI, um,
you know, it's very sensitive to your point to money.
You know, the recipient receives, um, but the insurance check,
as far as I'm concerned, with SSI, should not affect, uh,
(25:11):
that comes to you should not affect your son's SSI. Uh,
typically that would only look at his income and assets,
not the parents. Um, so I would check that with, uh,
Social Security. I mean, if for some reason there was
some issue there. I mean, you could look at, you know,
(25:31):
whether that goes into a special needs trust or an
able account. Uh, if he qualifies, as long as the
disability began before the age of 26. Um, and then,
you know, you could spend it out of that account, uh,
for his benefit. But generally speaking, as far as I'm concerned,
SSI only cares about his income and assets. Are you
(25:53):
under the impression it would? It's something other than that.
S6 (25:56):
Yeah. No. Like, I've reached out and talked to, uh,
the caseworker before, and he said that they would cut,
like they'll cut it off for life the way that
he described it to me. Um, if I have like, a,
a good house or, you know, um, more than $2,000
in any given bank account. Uh, but he's not like
he's still a minor.
S1 (26:18):
Okay. Uh.
S6 (26:19):
All right. No other income or assets.
S1 (26:22):
Okay. So that's okay. So then that's based on. So
he's a minor I'm sorry. I thought he was older
than that. So under 18 they do look at the
parents income and assets. Um but generally an insurance payout
received only by the parents uh, is not should not
(26:43):
be a factor here. So I would, uh, basically call
the caseworker and just let them know what the source
of these funds is. Uh, are and find out whether, um,
you know, there should be any issue there generally for
a minor, it's based on the parents income, not the assets. Um,
(27:03):
and so, you know that receiving an insurance check shouldn't
automatically cause that child to lose SSI, as long as, again,
the child doesn't receive or access the money. Um, and
as long as it's in your own name. So I
would probably, you know, you can check back in with
them just to see if, if you know that that
(27:24):
would cause any issue here. But, um, it's obviously not
affecting your income. And if for some reason there was
an issue, I think that's where you would want to
get the counsel from an attorney just to see if,
you know, it could be put into an able account
or a special needs trust as a fallback. Uh, but
just based on my understanding of the way it works,
(27:45):
your check related to insurance should not affect his benefits.
S6 (27:50):
Okay, well, thank you so much, Robin.
S1 (27:53):
All right. Absolutely. Greg, thanks for your call today. Uh,
Illinois is where Linda's located. Go ahead.
S4 (27:59):
Hi.
S1 (28:00):
Hi, there. How can I help?
S7 (28:01):
So I'm calling. How are you doing? Great. I'm calling because, uh,
my husband and I, um, we are 40, I'm 40
and he's 42. We have paid our house. We have
no debt. Um, we paid the house in cash because, um,
(28:22):
we've been married for 23 years, so we had no debit. No. No, dad,
no credit cards. We paid the college of the kids cash,
and right now our house has doubled. And besides that,
we have $140,000 in savings, which we're putting $40,000 for emergencies.
(28:51):
But we want to invest the $100,000 and we don't
know how to invest.
S4 (28:58):
Yeah.
S1 (28:59):
Uh, do you have. Well, first of all, Linda, congratulations.
I mean, you've done a fabulous job here getting to
this point. You've paid for college with cash. You own
your home outright. It's appreciating significantly. You're you're in your
early 40s, so you've got time on your side. Um,
you know, that's amazing. And you've got a fully funded
(29:19):
emergency fund. In fact, it's probably overfunded, which is a
good thing. Um, and now you've got some money to invest,
so that's fabulous. You you all are, are really putting
yourself in a in a solid financial position here. Um,
do you have access to a retirement plan at work,
either of you?
S7 (29:38):
No.
S1 (29:39):
Okay. Uh, sir, are you all self-employed or are you
W2 employees?
S7 (29:45):
Yes, we are self-employed.
S1 (29:48):
Okay. Um, so I would love for you to try
to get this, uh, into a retirement plan. Um, because
that's going to allow this money as it's invested to
grow without the the drag of the taxes that would
have to be paid. See, if you just put this
into a regular taxable brokerage account and invest it, and
(30:10):
it does, well, you're going to have to pay taxes
along the way. So the easiest thing to set up
is something called a sep IRA sep. It's easy to
set up, it's flexible, and you can put in up
to 25% of your self-employment income, uh, which is just a,
you know, a huge benefit, uh, to be able to,
(30:31):
you know, put a lot more away on a regular
basis and reduce your tax liability right now. Uh, and
then once it's in there, you could get in, get
it invested. So you're going to need an advisor to
help you set it up and to manage it. So
I would connect with a certified Kingdom advisor there in
Illinois at Find a Comm. Hang on the line. We'll
(30:53):
talk a bit more off the air. We'll be right back.
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
Finance Live. I'm Rob West here. In our final segment.
We'll get to as many calls as we can. Let's
go to Cleveland. Welcome Mary to the broadcast. Go right ahead, Mary.
S8 (31:15):
Hello, this is Mary. Excuse me. I was offered a
separation package at work, which would be about $44,000. And
then I have an annuity of 70,000 and a four.
One K of IRA of seven, of 50,000. I wondered
if it's a good idea to take the buyout. Okay.
S1 (31:38):
Yeah. No problem. So what is it they're giving you
in the separation?
S8 (31:44):
Uh, yes, 44,000. It's a, um, two, two paychecks per
year that you've been employed. Yeah.
S1 (31:54):
Okay. Yeah. Uh, so the 401 K is from a
previous employer. The 50,000? Or is that from the same employer?
S8 (32:03):
Uh, yes. It's a combined of two different employers. Yes.
S1 (32:08):
Okay. Yeah. So the separation agreement is really exclusively just
the 44,000 pre-tax. Correct?
S8 (32:16):
Yes. Okay. Correct.
S1 (32:19):
Yeah. Uh, you know, I think the the challenge is,
I mean, it sounds like sounds helpful, but it may
or may not be enough to bridge the gap. So
I think you've got to start with your financial readiness here. Uh,
so at 66, you've got 70,000 in the annuity. You've
got 50 in the 41K, and then you've got this
$44,000 separation offer. So that's 160,000 if you take the offer. Um,
(32:45):
and so the first question is can you afford to
stop working. Uh, so for most people, you know, with
savings at this level, the answer is usually no unless
you have another strong source of income. Um, you know,
if you're at full retirement age and you start taking
benefits with no penalty, you could keep working and delay
(33:08):
Social Security to get a bigger benefit later. And if
you don't have quite enough saved to meet your obligations,
that could be really helpful to let that Social Security
check continue to grow. Because if you wait, as you know,
to as late as age 70, you could get, you know, 25%
more per month in that check, which could be really
(33:28):
helpful now, really helpful down the road. The separation offer
is a one time check. It's not income. So that
becomes maybe 32 to 35,000 after tax. And you know
that's you know, working even one more year often adds
more lifetime security than a one time payout. Um, so
(33:52):
I would say, you know, if you want to retire
and you can live comfortably on Social Security, plus, you know,
very small withdrawals. I mean, if if it were 160,000,
I'm thinking, you know, probably around 500 a month. Um,
you know, then you could potentially make it work. But
I think, financially speaking, you continuing to work. Let that
(34:17):
Social Security check build, let your retirement, you know, package build.
You know, that could be worth more, uh, you know,
over time, unless you feel like you've run the numbers
and you can make it all work and you're just
ready to to transition to what God has next. Does
that make sense?
S8 (34:36):
Yes. That's great. Thank you. Yes.
S1 (34:39):
Okay. I hope that helps. Mary I know it's a
big decision. And listen, if you want an advisor to
weigh in on that and, you know, we've only got
a couple of minutes together here on the air, but
having an advisor actually do a financial plan for you
and help you calculate, okay, what are your actual Social
Security benefits? What do you need per month to cover
your living expenses? You know, what could your retirement grow
(35:01):
to if you don't take it now and you keep working,
let's say, you know, for the next two, three, four
years at least until age 70, where you could get
a significantly higher Social Security check. You could actually see
those numbers and make an informed decision. I think that
might be worth, you know, you paying an advisor for
a few hours of his or her time to do
(35:23):
a financial plan. So if you want to find someone
there in Cleveland to help you with that, Mary, just
go to find a C. Com we appreciate you being
on today. Let's go to Georgia chat. How can I help?
S9 (35:35):
Oh, yes. Uh, this is Chad, and I'm here in Macon, Georgia.
I've been trying to reach out to Rob, and we've
been listening. I've been listening to you. And thank you
for taking my call. Um, my my my my question is, uh,
me and my. We are 70 years old. We are
both retired, semi-retired, still working at 70 years old because
(35:57):
we don't want to, you know, we need to have
some purpose in life. So my question is now is
like we have 25,000, meaning savings from an insurance, uh,
insurance payment to us. And we have, uh, a 17 year, 17,000, um,
mortgage balance at 3% interest. My question is, are we
(36:23):
going to pay that off right now or keep the
money that we have and and continue investing the 25,000?
S1 (36:33):
Mm. Yeah. Very good. Thanks for that. Um, so the
25,000 that you just received from insurance, what other savings
do you have besides that 25,000 that you might consider
your emergency fund anything?
S9 (36:48):
Yes, yes, we have, uh, both of us have, uh,
we are very solid of having a six month emergency fund. Okay.
We have yeah, we have also annuity. Uh, in our savings,
in our, uh, um, uh, portfolio. Uh, we have, uh,
(37:09):
also IRA, Roth, IRA and other, uh, other, uh, money
that we could use in case something happened.
S1 (37:19):
Okay, great. Well, the math equation here says that if
you owe 17,000 at 3%, that's what you know, most
people would consider, quote, cheap debt. So from a purely
financial standpoint, and that's all it is, you could likely
earn more than 3% by investing that money. And you know,
your payment is probably fairly small at this point. So
(37:42):
I think the math says keep the money invested or
invest it and continue to make the small mortgage payments
until you ultimately pay it off. There's an emotional side
and a retirement security side to this that says at
age 70, life becomes less about the maximum return and
more about simplicity and peace of mind. You know God
(38:04):
is your ultimate treasure. A a modest lifestyle and you
know just a simple life where you just have as
few bills as possible. And if you want to kind
of lean into that, I think a paid off home
means lower monthly expenses because the mortgage is gone. You know,
you own your home out right now and you've got
(38:25):
more flexibility on a fixed income. So for many retirees,
becoming completely debt free is a huge emotional and spiritual
relief that has real value. And so I think, you know,
at the end of the day, you all have to
talk and pray through this because there's not a right
or wrong answer. I think you have to just decide,
(38:45):
would we be have greater peace of mind knowing we
own our home and have $8,000 to, you know, fund
the Roth IRA? Or if you have earned income, which
you do. Um, you know, and boost it a little
bit or try to get that whole 25,000 working for
you and just continue chipping away at that 17,000, you know,
(39:07):
over the next several years. On paper, that would probably
be the better option. But if either of you, you know,
feel like we just either feel like the Lord's convicting
us to be out of debt completely or we'd have
greater peace of mind, then I'd say, go for it
and don't look back. Does that make sense?
S9 (39:24):
Very, very much makes sense. Rob, thank you so much.
I'll be discussing this with my wife tonight.
S1 (39:30):
Okay. Okay. Very good. Chad. Lord bless you, sir. You
sound like a wonderful man. Uh, New Hampshire is where
we're going to finish up today. Uh, Sonia. Go ahead.
S10 (39:40):
Hi. I just wanted to thank you for your ministry.
I've been listening since I was a kid. Larry burkett,
Howard Dean. So thank you for continuing on.
S1 (39:47):
Awesome. Thank you.
S10 (39:49):
Yeah, I have a question. We've always been on the, um,
the goal to, like, pay off debt, pay off mortgage.
And recently someone mentioned something about not paying off the
mortgage because it's only at 3%. My husband retires in
15 months. He'll only be 51 years old, and then
he'll have a pension coming in at that time, too.
But we just wondered, is it smart to pay off
(40:12):
the mortgage, or should we keep it open because it's
only 3% or.
S1 (40:17):
Yeah, yeah. Well, uh, a couple of thoughts here. Um,
you know, is it smart to pay off the mortgage? Sure.
I love you. Paying off the mortgage, being completely debt free,
especially if you can do it, uh, you know, early
on and, you know, have the ability to recapture that
money for greater savings or additional giving, that kind of thing. Um,
you know, it is harder to get a home equity
(40:39):
line of credit once you retire because lenders qualify you
based on income, not savings. So when your income drops
in retirement, the the bank may say, sorry, you don't
qualify for a HELOC. That doesn't mean you should keep
a mortgage just to get access to it. You know,
keeping a mortgage in retirement just for the possibility of
future borrowing is really not, you know, a good financial
(41:02):
plan and really one has no effect on the other.
I think what it really comes down to is what
would we do with the money if we didn't pay
off the mortgage? Because you're right, that is a low
interest rate. I mean, is there a strong possibility that
you could outperform that low interest rate on the mortgage? Absolutely.
(41:24):
But it means it's not sitting in savings. You're going
to have to get it invested. And again, it's kind
of like what we talked about with the last caller.
I think at the end of the day, uh, if
your goal is to be debt free and you have
the ability to do that now, and you still are
going to have plenty of liquidity with your emergency fund,
I'd say go for it. And then we'll take that,
you know, mortgage payment that you were sending for principal
(41:46):
and interest. And now just make a monthly contribution into
your long term investments. Um, but if you're comfortable with
that mortgage hanging around for a bit longer. And again,
it's at a low rate less than half of of what,
you know, rates are today. And you've got that money
working for you. And we see what the market's been doing.
Then I'd say there's no problem with that. I think
(42:08):
it ultimately comes down to a conviction matter if that
makes sense.
S10 (42:12):
Yes. And we're going to actually connect with a financial
advisor that is linked through Facebook soon. So oh awesome
info with him too. So thank you. Good good.
S1 (42:20):
Good. Yeah. You're welcome. Listen, I don't think you can
go wrong here. It sounds like you guys are doing
a great job. But if your goal is to be
debt free, go for it and don't look back. But
if both of you are saying no, we want to
be debt free eventually, but we're okay with that debt
because it's such a low rate right now. Let's get
that money working for us. That's not a bad idea either.
So I think you guys meet with your advisor, talk
(42:41):
and pray about it, and I'm confident you'll come to
the right decision. Thanks for your call. Big thanks to Josh, Omar, Taylor,
and Tara today. Faith and Finance Live is a partnership
between Moody Radio and Faith fi. We'll see you tomorrow.
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership
has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has life with darkness?
Second Corinthians 614. Hi, I'm Rob West. The Apostle Paul's
warning is often applied to marriage, but it also speaks
to any relationship that joins our values with others. So
what does it mean for business partnerships? Today, Ron Blue
(00:33):
joins us to unpack both biblical and practical wisdom behind
this question. Then it's on to your calls at 800
525 7000. This is faith and finance. Live biblical wisdom
for your financial decisions. Well, we can always say class
is in session when Ron Blue joins us. Ron's the
co-founder of Kingdom Advisors, a much in demand author and
(00:57):
speaker and a personal mentor of mine. Ron, great to
have you back.
S2 (01:01):
It's always a pleasure, Rob. Good to be with you.
S1 (01:04):
Rob. Let's dive into this passage. Paul wasn't just talking
about marriage in that particular passage, was he?
S2 (01:12):
No. Talking about partnerships. And there are so many kinds
of partnerships. Uh, you know, you see it most likely
in the professions that are typically organized as partnerships. But
you can have businesses also that have multiple partners and owners.
So partnerships can last a long time. I spoke to my,
(01:34):
the CPA firm that I founded not long ago, and
they've been a partnership for 50 years and still operating
as a partnership. So interesting business partnerships and other types
of partnerships also.
S1 (01:47):
Yeah that's helpful. Ron, what I've appreciated so much about
your teaching, among other things, is that you've taught us
principles that are transferable. What principles guided you and your
experience with partnerships?
S2 (02:01):
Well, I got this question a lot. Rob, over the years,
and probably the most significant illustration is let's say you
have two ob-gyns who want to go into partnership, one
a believer and one not one who believes in abortion
and one not. And I was asked many times about
that type of relationship. And I always said, there's a
(02:23):
couple of things to think about from a principle standpoint.
And the first thing is, what will it do to
your testimony to be in partnership with somebody that you're
unequally yoked with? And only you and God can answer that.
But that's a really big question, because you could lose
your testimony by the partnership that you're in. And the
(02:43):
second thing is that partnerships a lot of times go sour.
It's like marriages. 50% of them end up in divorce. Well,
I don't know what the percentage is, but a lot
of partnerships end up dissipating. And so I always advised,
have your exit strategy in place before you form a partnership,
so that either one can get out of the relationship
(03:07):
in an equitable basis and maintain their testimony if they're
the believer that's leaving that partnership. Yes. The other thing
that it does, if you have an exit strategy, you
avoid a lot of the conflict that can come from
the separation of any partnership. Just like a marriage. But
it's the same thing in a business.
S1 (03:28):
Yes.
S2 (03:29):
And I always also said thirdly that remember the most
critical thing that you want to preserve, assuming that you've
got a business that has a testimony already. You want
the testimony to live beyond the relationship. Mhm. Um, and
you know, uh, this financial planning firm that I had started,
(03:52):
that was a partnership and I left after 23 years,
but nobody left, uh, with me because they were committed
to the mission.
S1 (04:02):
Yes.
S2 (04:03):
And that's what you really want to see happen. And
you also want to see that the exit strategy makes
sense economically to everybody. Mhm. So that you don't find
yourself in conflict uh, and uh, over the terms of the,
of the exit strategy. So those are just three principles
that I used to talk about with people when I've
(04:25):
been asked those questions.
S1 (04:26):
Ron, that's such wise counsel and a great reminder that
shared faith isn't just good for business. It's essential for
a lasting witness. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us today.
S2 (04:37):
Oh, good to be with you, Rob. Thanks for having me.
S1 (04:39):
That was Ron Blue sharing insights from his article in
the latest issue of Faithful Steward Magazine, a quarterly publication
sent exclusively to faith by partners who support our mission.
And right now, when you become a Faith V partner
before December 31st. You'll receive our brand new devotional when
it's released, entitled Our Ultimate Treasure, along with Faithful Steward
(05:01):
and other special benefits. Learn more at Faith 5.com. That's faith.
Your calls are next at 800 525 7000. That's 800
525 7000. I'm Rob West and this is Faith and finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back.
S3 (05:35):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific Situation.
S1 (05:59):
Glad to have you with us today on faith and
finance live. Boy, what a treat to have my good
friend and mentor Ron Blue on the radio today. Ron
is always full of practical wisdom. And you know, perhaps
that opening topic today is one you haven't considered, you know,
in marriage to become one for life. It's about unity. Uh,
(06:20):
joining together as one flesh. But that's not the case
in other partnerships. In fact, in a business relationship, the
very best thing you can do is often to anticipate
the end before you even start. How would we exit
the relationship? Especially to Ron's point if your testimony is
compromised in any way. And so thinking about those off ramps.
(06:42):
So if God redirects, if the business doesn't perform as expected,
whatever it might be, that you can treat each other
with integrity. You can be fair, but you can also
create a win win situation. Something as simple as how
are we going to value the business at such a
time as somebody wants to exit? Planning in advance for
those things can be really key. But as Ron said,
(07:04):
certainly these principles we see, and the admonition from the
Apostle Paul in Scripture applies to really any partnership. And
so we need to take steps as Christ followers, if
we are joined in business with an unbeliever to make
sure there is no possibility that your witness could be affected,
your testimony as a result of that relationship. I hope
(07:26):
that was helpful today. Hey, we want to turn the
corner and answer your questions on anything financial. Uh, the
number to call today with lines open is 800 525 7000.
Again you can call right now 800 525 7000. We'd
love to tackle those questions for you today. We'll try
to get you on the air quickly once again. That
number with lines open is 800 525 five 7000. Before
(07:50):
we dive into the phones today in the news, gold
has delivered dazzling returns in 2025. But for many investors, well,
that shine may fade when tax season arrives. Gold futures
hit a record 4000 an ounce in October and despite
a brief pullback, the metal is up still nearly 50%
year to date, trading at around $4,100 an ounce physical
(08:13):
gold ETF. So that would be the spider gold shares,
the iShares Gold Trust and even physical gold shares have
surged alongside it. By comparison, the S&P 500 is up
about 15% this year. Now, these gains follow gold's strongest
annual performance since 2010. But tax experts warn the IRS
(08:36):
doesn't treat gold the same way it treats stocks and bonds.
This reality is catching some investors off guard, so we
want you to be prepared. While long term capital gains
on traditional investments top out at 20%. Physical gold and
gold backed ETFs are taxed as collectibles. They have a
higher 28% long term rate. Other funds, those holding gold
(09:01):
futures contracts, rather than physical bullion, follow yet another structure.
It's called the 60 over 40 rule. 60% of gains
are taxed at long term rates and 40% at short
term rates, leading top bracket investors to face a blended
rate of about, well, almost 27%. Now, not all gold
(09:23):
investments are taxed the same, and higher income investors are
more likely to feel the difference. However, these rules apply
not only to gold again that you hold, but to
also to those ETFs. What they do not apply though,
to is gold held in an IRA that is of
course shielded from the taxes. So what is the takeaway? Well,
(09:47):
strong returns are encouraging. But why? Stewardship means understanding the
tax implications before you sell. Now speaking of tax implications
before you sell, don't forget that the donor advised fund
could be a great tool here. If you're holding gold
outside of a retirement account and you're wanting to do
some charitable giving, especially here at year end. What if
you give the gold away into your donor advised fund
(10:11):
before you sell it? That way when you sell it,
you don't pay any capital gains. 100% of that money
goes in your donor advised fund. You get the deduction
for it for the full amount, and then you can
grant it out at your leisure. If you're going to
do that, whether it's gold or a business or piece
of art or appreciated stock, the donor advised fund is
a really powerful tool for that. And our friends at
(10:33):
the National Christian Foundation would be the place to go.
Because as long as you're at NCF, which, by the way,
going back to our opening topic, was founded by Ron
Blue and Larry Burkett, among others. Um, that's going to
ensure at NCF that the the sponsor never gets in
the way of you sending that money to a Christian ministry.
(10:54):
That's why NCF was founded. That may not be the
case with other donor advised fund sponsors. So if you
want to learn more or set up your donor advised
fund today, just head to faith. Com. That's faith fi.
It just takes a couple of minutes. All right. Let's
dive in. We're going to begin in Wisconsin today Andrew.
(11:14):
Go ahead.
S4 (11:16):
Um. Good afternoon. I have a student loan that I
took out for a child, son, and, um, a number
of years ago, and I paid on it quite a
bit for a long time, and then I had. I
just couldn't keep up with it. Um, now, it's been
quite a few years, and the amount has has been
(11:40):
increased to about $20,000. I'm only a couple years from
retirement and I cannot maintain paying on that through my
through my retirement. My question is, um, to two ideas. Um,
accessing my 401 K to I know there's penalties involved
(12:03):
just to get that thing cleared out, taken care of,
or the other option is to stop my 18% that
I put into 401 K, take 10% of that, um,
stop 10% and keep the 8% so that my company
I work for continues to, uh, match and take that 10%,
(12:25):
whatever that is per month, uh, or biweekly and take
that and throw that at the, um, at the, uh,
the loan. Now, I know that I'm, I don't think
there's any way that I'm going to have this thing
cleared off with my income and so on. So I'm
kind of at a loss of what to do.
S1 (12:44):
Yeah. Is this a parent plus loan? Andrew?
S4 (12:48):
Yes.
S1 (12:49):
Okay. So there are some options there. I mean, although
the Parent Plus loan isn't eligible for the new income
driven plans, they are eligible for essentially what's called income
contingent repayment. Uh, after you consolidate through the direct consolidation
loan program. And that could lower payments based on your income.
(13:10):
And then, you know, potentially even give you forgiveness after
25 years. Um, have you looked into that option?
S4 (13:20):
Uh, everything I've looked into. I have not been eligible for.
S1 (13:24):
Okay. All right. Well, you may want to just check, because.
S4 (13:27):
Yeah, I don't know why. Because I'm just not at
that level that I thought I would be able to
get some assistance with. But I've never been able to
get anything as well as, you know, the cancellation of
loans during the last administration. I just kind of followed
that along and went through some things that they had
told me they were going to do, and then they
never followed through with it. So I thought, well, maybe
that was it. I didn't really like it, but I
(13:52):
thought it was a possibility that that didn't pan out either.
S1 (13:55):
Yeah. Okay. Very good. Well, you know, I think the
key here is I would try to avoid using the
existing retirement funds for the reasons you mentioned. It's expensive money.
I want to keep it in that tax deferred environment.
I don't want to lose the opportunity cost. One option
is to look at the possibility of income contingent repayment
and just pay on this, you know, over throughout the
(14:17):
rest of your retirement, but at a lower amount after
you do the direct loan consolidation. But let's talk more
about that after this break. Stay right there, Andrew. We'll
pick it up on the other side. We'll be right back.
Helping you seek out is your ultimate treasure. Manage money
(14:37):
according to God's wisdom in the Bible. This is faith
and finance. Live. I'm Rob West. We've got some lines open.
If you have a question today, call 800 525 7000. Again,
that number is 800 525 7000. Before the break we
were talking to Andrew in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Uh, he
has an outstanding student loan, a parent plus loan he
(14:57):
took out. It's about 20,000. It's been growing. Uh, took
it out for one of his children. Uh, he's just
a few years away from retirement, wondering how he should
handle the debt. Uh, the child is not able to
take it on, and he would like to get out
from under it. He's wondering about the possibility of either
pulling out from a 401 K some money to pay
(15:18):
it off, or perhaps just reducing what he is putting
into the 401 K, staying at a minimum at that
portion that could be matched, but perhaps backing that contribution
down just to free up some excess funds to put
toward principal reduction. Uh, I would just say you absolutely
do have options with the parent plus loan. Um, it
(15:39):
has to be, though, consolidated into the direct consolidation loan.
So without that step, the loan services loan servicers will
often tell parents they, quote, don't qualify. But that's because
they're looking at the current low, not what becomes available
after the consolidation. Now, this is not a private consolidation.
This is through the federal loan program. It's the direct
(16:01):
consolidation loan. Once you do that, the parent plus loan
becomes eligible for the ICR, the income contingent repayment. And
they would base your payment then on your income. And
that usually reduces it significantly. And they forgive the remaining
balance after 25 years. So you know that would likely
(16:23):
be the, you know, the way you would want to go. Now,
if you want to pay it off before retirement, I
would say just try the best you can to dial
back your spending and contribute. I wouldn't pull out of
existing retirement contributions, and I'm really hesitant for you to
reduce those retirement contributions just because that's probably going to
(16:47):
be a very meaningful part of what you will need
to supplement Social Security to maintain your lifestyle in retirement.
You know, you only have a few years left every
year of compounding matters, and it's hard to quote catch
up later. So I wouldn't, you know, the best you
can sacrifice long term retirement stability just to accelerate the
(17:07):
federal loan that can be made manageable and should get
some forgiveness. So I really feel like that's the next option. Now,
if you, Andrew, say to me, listen, I just have
a conviction. I want to pay it off in full
as quick as I can. Then I would say, all right,
then let's back down the retirement contributions. But that would
be my second option to the to the others that
(17:28):
I mentioned. Does that make sense?
S4 (17:31):
Yes it does, it does. And I've, uh. I've always
paid off my debt, so this is kind of bothering
me that it's out there and and it got to
that position in the first place, so. Yeah.
S1 (17:45):
Well, I totally get it. At the end of the day.
You know, if you have a conviction just to get
this paid off in full, then I would say go
for it and don't look back. Um, but if you're
comfortable continuing just to kind of ride this out, um,
you know, you do have options available, but it is
going to require the direct loan consolidation first. Thanks for
your call today, sir. We appreciate you being on. Uh,
let's go to Cleveland. Hi, Lee. How can I help you?
S5 (18:08):
Hi. Um, I was just calling. I'm going to be retiring. Um, well,
close to retirement age. I'll be 62 next year in August.
And I was just wondering. I owe 119 on my home.
I work, uh, part time. My husband works full time.
(18:29):
I work part time. And I was wondering if I
should start collecting my Social Security to pay off that
house faster. And I would continue to work because I,
I don't make, um, I just work part time. So
I'm only making around 18 to 20,000 a year.
S1 (18:47):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, I would just say
starting Social Security at 62 is tempting, especially when money
is tight. But it's usually the most expensive decision you
can make in retirement. Uh, so first of all, it
comes with that permanent reduction of 25 to 30% lower
in terms of a smaller benefit, 25 to 30% for
(19:10):
life compared to your full retirement age. So that means
smaller checks every month. It also means smaller cost of
living increases. And if you live into your 80s or 90s,
which is highly likely, although only the Lord knows, um,
you know, you'll feel that reduction. Um, I would say second,
you fall below the earnings limit. Now, Um, you know,
(19:32):
but the real question is, can you afford that reduction forever? So,
you know, you're earning 17,000 a year so you wouldn't
be hit by the earnings penalty if you take it
at 62. But that, again, doesn't mean it's necessarily the small,
you know, the smartest move long term. Um, you know,
I hear you on being debt free by the time
(19:52):
you get to full retirement age. And I love that
idea of you being out of from under that once
and for all. You know, but again, forcing that smaller
Social Security benefit for life just to pay off the
home faster, you know, is not necessarily always the best option.
What is the interest rate on that mortgage?
S5 (20:13):
Um, I think it's around three something.
S1 (20:16):
Yeah. So a phenomenal interest rate that, you know, you're
more than double that today. And so that's very, you know,
inexpensive funds, especially given that you're going to get about
an 8% increase every year, only to pay off a
loan that's, you know, less than half of that quote
rate of return. Now, it assumes that you live long
(20:37):
enough to, you know, to collect everything you gave up
between 62 and 67. But assuming you do, uh, you know,
you've then got to check, you know, potentially as much
as 30% higher for the rest of your life. Um,
so I think what I would do is just try
to keep expenses lean right now, pay extra out of
current cash flow toward your car loan, try to get
(21:01):
that knocked off, and then, you know, you could roll
that money over toward the house trying to send an
extra payment or two a year. But I would prefer
that personally over you taking it early and locking in
that smaller benefit.
S5 (21:16):
Okay. Thank you very much. We have been paying a
little bit extra every month.
S1 (21:20):
So yeah that's great.
S5 (21:22):
Yeah.
S1 (21:23):
Love it. Well listen, Lee, I mean that's not a
definitive again. You know, there's not a right or wrong here.
It's just a few other things to think about as
you make this decision. But I think, you know, with
there is longevity risk, which is the idea that you're
going to live a long time, which we're living a
lot longer today than we were. And the key is
that higher check for the rest of your life. Uh,
(21:43):
you know, you're really going to appreciate, you know, in
your 80s and beyond. So thanks for being on the
program today. We appreciate your call, Greg. Coming your way
in Alabama right after this and Linda in Illinois. We'll
be right back. Stay with us. Thanks for joining us
(22:06):
today on Faith and Finance Live. Hey, if you love
the program, this is a great time of year to
think about supporting listener supported faith and finance. Live this program.
Your support helps us bring you this broadcast every day,
plus all the great resources we have to offer, including
a brand new Faith V app that's coming In January.
(22:27):
I can't wait for you to hear all about it.
It's going to do well. I'll tell you. I got
a preview the other day, and how simple it makes
the process of taking all of your spending, understanding where
it's going, and then helping you make decisions around your
spending plan, but also connected to your faith is amazing.
(22:48):
It uses some incredible intelligence behind the scenes to automatically
categorize every one of your transactions, allow you visibility into
where your money's going, helping you make decisions about the
goals that you've set and, uh, creating rhythms daily, weekly,
and monthly rhythms that bring your faith into the process.
(23:09):
Because our financial journey is one of the key ways
God shapes our spiritual journey. They'll also be digital studies
in there. So all of our studies and devotionals will
come to life inside the app. It is going to
be an incredible tool to help you on your stewardship
journey right there in the palm of your hand on
your smartphone. That, plus our new devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure
(23:30):
that comes out in January. That's just the first month
of 2026. We have a lot planned for you, but
we can't do it without your support. And right now,
this month until December 31st, every gift is doubled until 1231.
So if you'd had to. Faith. That's faith. I give
every gift will be doubled, and a gift of any
(23:52):
amount will ensure that as soon as my new devotional
comes out in January, you will get a copy. Thanks
in advance. All right, back to the phones we go. Uh,
Alabama is where Greg is located. Go ahead sir.
S6 (24:04):
Um, yeah, I'm going to be getting an insurance check, uh, soon, hopefully.
And I was just, um, wanting to know how I
can cash that without losing my son's disability.
S1 (24:17):
Okay, so the check is coming to you, not your son.
Is that right?
S6 (24:21):
Yeah. That's correct. But, like, um, they look at my
income and I got to report my income to them
to know what his supplement is.
S1 (24:30):
Sure. And what type of disability is it that he's getting?
S6 (24:36):
Um, it's not physical. It's like mental.
S1 (24:40):
Okay. But in terms of is this, uh, SSI or, um,
or is it SSDI?
S6 (24:49):
It's SSI.
S1 (24:50):
Okay. All right. Um, so with regard to SSI, um,
you know, it's very sensitive to your point to money.
You know, the recipient receives, um, but the insurance check,
as far as I'm concerned, with SSI, should not affect, uh,
(25:11):
that comes to you should not affect your son's SSI. Uh,
typically that would only look at his income and assets,
not the parents. Um, so I would check that with, uh,
Social Security. I mean, if for some reason there was
some issue there. I mean, you could look at, you know,
(25:31):
whether that goes into a special needs trust or an
able account. Uh, if he qualifies, as long as the
disability began before the age of 26. Um, and then,
you know, you could spend it out of that account, uh,
for his benefit. But generally speaking, as far as I'm concerned,
SSI only cares about his income and assets. Are you
(25:53):
under the impression it would? It's something other than that.
S6 (25:56):
Yeah. No. Like, I've reached out and talked to, uh,
the caseworker before, and he said that they would cut,
like they'll cut it off for life the way that
he described it to me. Um, if I have like, a,
a good house or, you know, um, more than $2,000
in any given bank account. Uh, but he's not like
he's still a minor.
S1 (26:18):
Okay. Uh.
S6 (26:19):
All right. No other income or assets.
S1 (26:22):
Okay. So that's okay. So then that's based on. So
he's a minor I'm sorry. I thought he was older
than that. So under 18 they do look at the
parents income and assets. Um but generally an insurance payout
received only by the parents uh, is not should not
(26:43):
be a factor here. So I would, uh, basically call
the caseworker and just let them know what the source
of these funds is. Uh, are and find out whether, um,
you know, there should be any issue there generally for
a minor, it's based on the parents income, not the assets. Um,
(27:03):
and so, you know that receiving an insurance check shouldn't
automatically cause that child to lose SSI, as long as, again,
the child doesn't receive or access the money. Um, and
as long as it's in your own name. So I
would probably, you know, you can check back in with
them just to see if, if you know that that
(27:24):
would cause any issue here. But, um, it's obviously not
affecting your income. And if for some reason there was
an issue, I think that's where you would want to
get the counsel from an attorney just to see if,
you know, it could be put into an able account
or a special needs trust as a fallback. Uh, but
just based on my understanding of the way it works,
(27:45):
your check related to insurance should not affect his benefits.
S6 (27:50):
Okay, well, thank you so much, Robin.
S1 (27:53):
All right. Absolutely. Greg, thanks for your call today. Uh,
Illinois is where Linda's located. Go ahead.
S4 (27:59):
Hi.
S1 (28:00):
Hi, there. How can I help?
S7 (28:01):
So I'm calling. How are you doing? Great. I'm calling because, uh,
my husband and I, um, we are 40, I'm 40
and he's 42. We have paid our house. We have
no debt. Um, we paid the house in cash because, um,
(28:22):
we've been married for 23 years, so we had no debit. No. No, dad,
no credit cards. We paid the college of the kids cash,
and right now our house has doubled. And besides that,
we have $140,000 in savings, which we're putting $40,000 for emergencies.
(28:51):
But we want to invest the $100,000 and we don't
know how to invest.
S4 (28:58):
Yeah.
S1 (28:59):
Uh, do you have. Well, first of all, Linda, congratulations.
I mean, you've done a fabulous job here getting to
this point. You've paid for college with cash. You own
your home outright. It's appreciating significantly. You're you're in your
early 40s, so you've got time on your side. Um,
you know, that's amazing. And you've got a fully funded
(29:19):
emergency fund. In fact, it's probably overfunded, which is a
good thing. Um, and now you've got some money to invest,
so that's fabulous. You you all are, are really putting
yourself in a in a solid financial position here. Um,
do you have access to a retirement plan at work,
either of you?
S7 (29:38):
No.
S1 (29:39):
Okay. Uh, sir, are you all self-employed or are you
W2 employees?
S7 (29:45):
Yes, we are self-employed.
S1 (29:48):
Okay. Um, so I would love for you to try
to get this, uh, into a retirement plan. Um, because
that's going to allow this money as it's invested to
grow without the the drag of the taxes that would
have to be paid. See, if you just put this
into a regular taxable brokerage account and invest it, and
(30:10):
it does, well, you're going to have to pay taxes
along the way. So the easiest thing to set up
is something called a sep IRA sep. It's easy to
set up, it's flexible, and you can put in up
to 25% of your self-employment income, uh, which is just a,
you know, a huge benefit, uh, to be able to,
(30:31):
you know, put a lot more away on a regular
basis and reduce your tax liability right now. Uh, and
then once it's in there, you could get in, get
it invested. So you're going to need an advisor to
help you set it up and to manage it. So
I would connect with a certified Kingdom advisor there in
Illinois at Find a Comm. Hang on the line. We'll
(30:53):
talk a bit more off the air. We'll be right back.
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
Finance Live. I'm Rob West here. In our final segment.
We'll get to as many calls as we can. Let's
go to Cleveland. Welcome Mary to the broadcast. Go right ahead, Mary.
S8 (31:15):
Hello, this is Mary. Excuse me. I was offered a
separation package at work, which would be about $44,000. And
then I have an annuity of 70,000 and a four.
One K of IRA of seven, of 50,000. I wondered
if it's a good idea to take the buyout. Okay.
S1 (31:38):
Yeah. No problem. So what is it they're giving you
in the separation?
S8 (31:44):
Uh, yes, 44,000. It's a, um, two, two paychecks per
year that you've been employed. Yeah.
S1 (31:54):
Okay. Yeah. Uh, so the 401 K is from a
previous employer. The 50,000? Or is that from the same employer?
S8 (32:03):
Uh, yes. It's a combined of two different employers. Yes.
S1 (32:08):
Okay. Yeah. So the separation agreement is really exclusively just
the 44,000 pre-tax. Correct?
S8 (32:16):
Yes. Okay. Correct.
S1 (32:19):
Yeah. Uh, you know, I think the the challenge is,
I mean, it sounds like sounds helpful, but it may
or may not be enough to bridge the gap. So
I think you've got to start with your financial readiness here. Uh,
so at 66, you've got 70,000 in the annuity. You've
got 50 in the 41K, and then you've got this
$44,000 separation offer. So that's 160,000 if you take the offer. Um,
(32:45):
and so the first question is can you afford to
stop working. Uh, so for most people, you know, with
savings at this level, the answer is usually no unless
you have another strong source of income. Um, you know,
if you're at full retirement age and you start taking
benefits with no penalty, you could keep working and delay
(33:08):
Social Security to get a bigger benefit later. And if
you don't have quite enough saved to meet your obligations,
that could be really helpful to let that Social Security
check continue to grow. Because if you wait, as you know,
to as late as age 70, you could get, you know, 25%
more per month in that check, which could be really
(33:28):
helpful now, really helpful down the road. The separation offer
is a one time check. It's not income. So that
becomes maybe 32 to 35,000 after tax. And you know
that's you know, working even one more year often adds
more lifetime security than a one time payout. Um, so
(33:52):
I would say, you know, if you want to retire
and you can live comfortably on Social Security, plus, you know,
very small withdrawals. I mean, if if it were 160,000,
I'm thinking, you know, probably around 500 a month. Um,
you know, then you could potentially make it work. But
I think, financially speaking, you continuing to work. Let that
(34:17):
Social Security check build, let your retirement, you know, package build.
You know, that could be worth more, uh, you know,
over time, unless you feel like you've run the numbers
and you can make it all work and you're just
ready to to transition to what God has next. Does
that make sense?
S8 (34:36):
Yes. That's great. Thank you. Yes.
S1 (34:39):
Okay. I hope that helps. Mary I know it's a
big decision. And listen, if you want an advisor to
weigh in on that and, you know, we've only got
a couple of minutes together here on the air, but
having an advisor actually do a financial plan for you
and help you calculate, okay, what are your actual Social
Security benefits? What do you need per month to cover
your living expenses? You know, what could your retirement grow
(35:01):
to if you don't take it now and you keep working,
let's say, you know, for the next two, three, four
years at least until age 70, where you could get
a significantly higher Social Security check. You could actually see
those numbers and make an informed decision. I think that
might be worth, you know, you paying an advisor for
a few hours of his or her time to do
(35:23):
a financial plan. So if you want to find someone
there in Cleveland to help you with that, Mary, just
go to find a C. Com we appreciate you being
on today. Let's go to Georgia chat. How can I help?
S9 (35:35):
Oh, yes. Uh, this is Chad, and I'm here in Macon, Georgia.
I've been trying to reach out to Rob, and we've
been listening. I've been listening to you. And thank you
for taking my call. Um, my my my my question is, uh,
me and my. We are 70 years old. We are
both retired, semi-retired, still working at 70 years old because
(35:57):
we don't want to, you know, we need to have
some purpose in life. So my question is now is
like we have 25,000, meaning savings from an insurance, uh,
insurance payment to us. And we have, uh, a 17 year, 17,000, um,
mortgage balance at 3% interest. My question is, are we
(36:23):
going to pay that off right now or keep the
money that we have and and continue investing the 25,000?
S1 (36:33):
Mm. Yeah. Very good. Thanks for that. Um, so the
25,000 that you just received from insurance, what other savings
do you have besides that 25,000 that you might consider
your emergency fund anything?
S9 (36:48):
Yes, yes, we have, uh, both of us have, uh,
we are very solid of having a six month emergency fund. Okay.
We have yeah, we have also annuity. Uh, in our savings,
in our, uh, um, uh, portfolio. Uh, we have, uh,
(37:09):
also IRA, Roth, IRA and other, uh, other, uh, money
that we could use in case something happened.
S1 (37:19):
Okay, great. Well, the math equation here says that if
you owe 17,000 at 3%, that's what you know, most
people would consider, quote, cheap debt. So from a purely
financial standpoint, and that's all it is, you could likely
earn more than 3% by investing that money. And you know,
your payment is probably fairly small at this point. So
(37:42):
I think the math says keep the money invested or
invest it and continue to make the small mortgage payments
until you ultimately pay it off. There's an emotional side
and a retirement security side to this that says at
age 70, life becomes less about the maximum return and
more about simplicity and peace of mind. You know God
(38:04):
is your ultimate treasure. A a modest lifestyle and you
know just a simple life where you just have as
few bills as possible. And if you want to kind
of lean into that, I think a paid off home
means lower monthly expenses because the mortgage is gone. You know,
you own your home out right now and you've got
(38:25):
more flexibility on a fixed income. So for many retirees,
becoming completely debt free is a huge emotional and spiritual
relief that has real value. And so I think, you know,
at the end of the day, you all have to
talk and pray through this because there's not a right
or wrong answer. I think you have to just decide,
(38:45):
would we be have greater peace of mind knowing we
own our home and have $8,000 to, you know, fund
the Roth IRA? Or if you have earned income, which
you do. Um, you know, and boost it a little
bit or try to get that whole 25,000 working for
you and just continue chipping away at that 17,000, you know,
(39:07):
over the next several years. On paper, that would probably
be the better option. But if either of you, you know,
feel like we just either feel like the Lord's convicting
us to be out of debt completely or we'd have
greater peace of mind, then I'd say, go for it
and don't look back. Does that make sense?
S9 (39:24):
Very, very much makes sense. Rob, thank you so much.
I'll be discussing this with my wife tonight.
S1 (39:30):
Okay. Okay. Very good. Chad. Lord bless you, sir. You
sound like a wonderful man. Uh, New Hampshire is where
we're going to finish up today. Uh, Sonia. Go ahead.
S10 (39:40):
Hi. I just wanted to thank you for your ministry.
I've been listening since I was a kid. Larry burkett,
Howard Dean. So thank you for continuing on.
S1 (39:47):
Awesome. Thank you.
S10 (39:49):
Yeah, I have a question. We've always been on the, um,
the goal to, like, pay off debt, pay off mortgage.
And recently someone mentioned something about not paying off the
mortgage because it's only at 3%. My husband retires in
15 months. He'll only be 51 years old, and then
he'll have a pension coming in at that time, too.
But we just wondered, is it smart to pay off
(40:12):
the mortgage, or should we keep it open because it's
only 3% or.
S1 (40:17):
Yeah, yeah. Well, uh, a couple of thoughts here. Um,
you know, is it smart to pay off the mortgage? Sure.
I love you. Paying off the mortgage, being completely debt free,
especially if you can do it, uh, you know, early
on and, you know, have the ability to recapture that
money for greater savings or additional giving, that kind of thing. Um,
you know, it is harder to get a home equity
(40:39):
line of credit once you retire because lenders qualify you
based on income, not savings. So when your income drops
in retirement, the the bank may say, sorry, you don't
qualify for a HELOC. That doesn't mean you should keep
a mortgage just to get access to it. You know,
keeping a mortgage in retirement just for the possibility of
future borrowing is really not, you know, a good financial
(41:02):
plan and really one has no effect on the other.
I think what it really comes down to is what
would we do with the money if we didn't pay
off the mortgage? Because you're right, that is a low
interest rate. I mean, is there a strong possibility that
you could outperform that low interest rate on the mortgage? Absolutely.
(41:24):
But it means it's not sitting in savings. You're going
to have to get it invested. And again, it's kind
of like what we talked about with the last caller.
I think at the end of the day, uh, if
your goal is to be debt free and you have
the ability to do that now, and you still are
going to have plenty of liquidity with your emergency fund,
I'd say go for it. And then we'll take that,
you know, mortgage payment that you were sending for principal
(41:46):
and interest. And now just make a monthly contribution into
your long term investments. Um, but if you're comfortable with
that mortgage hanging around for a bit longer. And again,
it's at a low rate less than half of of what,
you know, rates are today. And you've got that money
working for you. And we see what the market's been doing.
Then I'd say there's no problem with that. I think
(42:08):
it ultimately comes down to a conviction matter if that
makes sense.
S10 (42:12):
Yes. And we're going to actually connect with a financial
advisor that is linked through Facebook soon. So oh awesome
info with him too. So thank you. Good good.
S1 (42:20):
Good. Yeah. You're welcome. Listen, I don't think you can
go wrong here. It sounds like you guys are doing
a great job. But if your goal is to be
debt free, go for it and don't look back. But
if both of you are saying no, we want to
be debt free eventually, but we're okay with that debt
because it's such a low rate right now. Let's get
that money working for us. That's not a bad idea either.
So I think you guys meet with your advisor, talk
(42:41):
and pray about it, and I'm confident you'll come to
the right decision. Thanks for your call. Big thanks to Josh, Omar, Taylor,
and Tara today. Faith and Finance Live is a partnership
between Moody Radio and Faith fi. We'll see you tomorrow.
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