July 7, 2025 • 41 mins
On Faith & Finance Live with Rob West, it’s the continuation of our series on temperaments. Explore how our God-given wiring shapes the way we communicate, relate to others, and make financial decisions. Kathleen Edelman is back with us, joined by Rachel Petty, as we take a closer look at the Green temperament. Discover how it influences our approach to money. Then, Rob addresses your calls and financial questions. That’s Faith & Finance Live—where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances, weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:08):
Wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways.
But the folly of fools is deception. Proverbs 14, verse eight.
I am Rob West. Today we're continuing our series on temperaments.
How our God given wiring shapes the way we communicate,
relate to others and make financial decisions with us and
(00:28):
how it influences our approach to money. Then it's on
to your calls at 800 525 7000. This is faith
and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well,
we're thrilled to have Kathleen Edelman back with us today.
She's a communication and temperament expert and the author of
(00:48):
the recently revised. I said this, you heard that how
you're wiring colours your communication. Kathleen. Always a pleasure to
have you here.
S2 (00:57):
Oh, I'm so happy to be here again. This is
so great.
S1 (01:00):
Well, we have loved this series. I think we're helping
so many people. Kathleen, as you know, we're joined today
by Rachel Petty as well. She's a valued member of
your team. And, Rachel, I'm thrilled you're here.
S3 (01:11):
Thanks so much, Rob.
S1 (01:12):
Absolutely. Well, last week we kicked off the series by
diving into the red temperament. And today we're shifting our
focus to the green temperament. Now, Rachel, we understand that
you fall personally into this color, and we'll get into
what that looks like in just a moment. But, Kathleen,
if people are listening today saying, red, green, what are
you talking about? Give us a quick refresher on the
(01:32):
temperament model you teach.
S2 (01:33):
Of course. So temperament dates back to Hippocrates, and temperament
falls into four different categories, and each speaks their own
language and they have distinct strengths and weaknesses. So the
yellow sanguine is an extrovert that's people oriented. They speak
the language of people and fun.
S1 (01:50):
That's me.
S2 (01:51):
Yes. That's you. The Red choleric is an extrovert that's
task oriented. They speak the language of power and We're
in control. The blue is a melancholic. They're an introvert
that's task oriented. They speak the language of perfection and order.
And that's me. And then Rachel is green. She's a phlegmatic.
She's an introvert. And listen, she's people oriented and they
(02:13):
speak the language of calm and harmony. So this shapes communication,
decision making, relationships and how you handle money.
S1 (02:20):
Yeah. You touched on this. But quickly talk to somebody
who's saying, wait a minute, introvert and people oriented. How
does that work?
S2 (02:27):
Well, this is communication. That's what I teach. And so
when you look at the chart that's in my book,
you have to find out that temperament, the foundation of
it is extrovert introvert people and task. Right. That's the foundation.
If we just knew that, we could start identifying who
we are.
S1 (02:43):
All right. So now it's time to zero in on
one of our friends. We're going to focus today on
the green or the phlegmatic. And Rachel, you took the
assessment found out that green is your dominant temperament. So
let's start with your initial reaction.
S3 (02:57):
Honestly, I wasn't very surprised because I've been told my
whole life I was easygoing, calm and steady, probably like
other people. The strengths were easy to own, but the
winning feelings go inward and and really, that was a
huge aha moment. Different than other assessments that helped me
understand communication and interactions with people.
S2 (03:18):
Well, this is interesting because that's exactly when we're talking extrovert.
Introvert I teach it's how you process information. So that's
what she's talking about. Like when we were out of red.
So greens can often feel overlooked or misunderstood. They're actually
relationship glue. This is the person again that's an introvert.
(03:38):
They inward process. But they will approach people. So they're
uniquely wired to be the calm in the midst of chaos.
They innately are great leaders of people where Reds are
great leaders of tasks.
S1 (03:52):
Interesting. Yeah. So when everything goes haywire at your home.
You're the person we want in the mix.
S2 (03:58):
That's exactly.
S1 (03:59):
Right. So in what ways does your green temperament influence decisions?
S3 (04:04):
Well, I love making a plan ahead of time and
accountability that comes from a budget, particularly with someone else. Okay,
I Shashi financial risks. I'm a slow plotter when it
comes to long term planning. I like to kind of
set it and forget it. I have had to learn
to communicate around concrete numbers and not feelings or stress
(04:25):
over things. I really like low stress talks about money. Yeah.
I usually want to decide once, like I said, and
not really revisit often. I think drilling into the details.
S1 (04:35):
Yeah, that makes sense. So you don't want to micromanage
the finances. You want to just make that decision thoughtfully
and move on.
S3 (04:42):
That's what I.
S1 (04:43):
Prefer. Yeah, that makes sense. All right. Well, Kathleen's going
to reflect on that here in a moment. We're going
to continue to unpack this. What are strategies the green
temperament can use to make more confident financial decisions. And
what if you have a green temperament in your life?
How do you communicate with them? Kathleen Edelman, Rachel Petty
here today we're talking temperaments and money. We'll be right back.
(05:12):
Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live.
I'm Rob West with vacation and temperament expert for each
of the four relate to money. Today we're focused on
men and our. If green is Rachel Kathleen's team about
how it affects decision making. And Kathleen, before the break uh,
ahead of time. He likes to and has, but she
(05:34):
likes when people and she move over.
S2 (05:37):
Because the Greens innate need for harmony plays a role.
They're going to do whatever they can to keep the peace.
Maybe avoiding action or avoiding conflict. Right. And that could
lead to procrastination, especially with long term planning. So when
we communicate with a green, it would benefit all of
us to communicate with gentle encouragement and small, manageable steps.
(06:02):
And when we ask for their thoughts and opinions and
give them time to think, the Greens actually make very
thoughtful and steady financial decisions.
S1 (06:11):
Yeah, that's really helpful. All right, Rachel, so what strategies
have you found, given that you're an inward processor, but
you're focused on people as a green? How do you
feel more confident when making financial decisions?
S3 (06:25):
Well, I can think of three strategies that I use. Okay.
Stay involved and speak my mind so I can tend
towards being unengaged and letting others decide things. Yeah, that
really relates to any choice, but it's a discipline for
me to jump off the fence and choose a choice
or a strategy or an action.
S1 (06:42):
Yeah. And that's in part because you don't want the conflict, right?
But you need to engage.
S3 (06:46):
But I have learned that conflict comes when I don't
make a decision more often than when I jump off
the fence and do make a decision. That's helpful. The
second one is naming what matters when making a big decision.
I really benefit from thinking about a name in a situation, um,
that gives me and whoever I'm talking with a common
language on that macro level, and then we can use
(07:08):
that as a grid to make the decisions further on
in smaller choices.
S1 (07:11):
So give me an example of that.
S3 (07:13):
So I can think of my husband and I deciding
about what a trip is going to look like, whether
it's going to be a relaxing vacation, a family trip,
visiting relatives, or a time for adventure, which is definitely
his favorite. But that kind of helps us know what
is that time going to look like? What are we
going to spend money on? How is it going to
be structured and all those decisions that come from that? Obviously,
(07:34):
you can't always get what you want, but it helps
me decide and prioritize more easily. And then the third
is having or making a deadline. That's really helpful for
me for accountability. I can see a lot of paths forward,
but a deadline helps me move into action.
S1 (07:48):
That makes sense.
S2 (07:49):
And that's right. You know, greens thrive when they feel
valued and respected. So this is a person. Their voice
may be quiet, but it's important. So give them time
to process and the space for them to access their insight.
And um what we hear is they resent being pushed.
If they are pushed, they will definitely slow down. And
(08:12):
they may even stop. So they will absolutely come to
a decision. Or if they are pushed, you know, to think.
S1 (08:22):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now Rachel husband
several times. What can you share with us about how
your temperament shapes the way you communicate about money specifically?
S3 (08:33):
So my husband and I are opposites, and I'm really
thankful for the accountability that that relationship brings, because I'm
not really sure where I would end up on my own. Um,
I might find accountability with someone else, but my husband
is great at encouraging me, and I'm really grateful that
we talk things through ahead of time. We make decisions together.
Otherwise I can tend to be overwhelmed.
S2 (08:55):
Yeah. So greens really, they have no sense of urgency.
So clear guidelines and timelines help them achieve their goals.
They want to be included, not pressured. So reducing pressure
and conflict will result in healthier communication and way more
thoughtful outcomes for everyone.
S1 (09:15):
That's really helpful. Kathleen. Um, I know you've identified specific
what you call innate needs for each temperament. I think
this will be helpful for audience. Share what those are
for the green temperament.
S2 (09:26):
Absolutely. So innate needs is what separates me from all
other assessments. And for the green harmony, everyone get along. Yep.
Lack of stress, the absence of conflict or combative words.
Feeling of worth appreciated for their unique strengths and respect.
Being asked for their thoughts and opinions. So when these
(09:47):
innate needs are met, Greens are calm, they're kind, they're
great listeners. They want the other temperaments to know that
they do have good opinions, and they do have thoughts
that they want to share, even though, you know, they
may be a person of very few words. But when
these innate needs are ignored, they may start to control
(10:07):
by withdrawing or procrastinating.
S1 (10:10):
Interesting. All right, Rachel, so as you hear those harmony,
lack of stress, feeling of worth and respect, how are
those reflected in your life?
S3 (10:18):
Well, when I think of respect, I content with many
circumstances or outcomes. But I do appreciate when my opinion
is asked for and when I've been given time to
speak it out. So I first have to consider my
opinion and then choose to share it. And really, that's
advocating for myself instead of taking the easier route of withdrawing.
Sometimes though, if I'm honest, things don't really matter to
(10:39):
me one way or the other. I'm content with any choice,
and I used to find myself saying, I don't care
what we do, but I've learned to shift that to
I don't have a preference this time, which doesn't communicate
withdrawal like I don't care.
S1 (10:52):
Yeah, it's completely different because in some cases you absolutely care,
but in others you're okay deferring to someone else.
S3 (11:00):
That has been a game changer in conversations about things.
S1 (11:03):
Yeah. That's helpful. As we wrap up, we've got just
a couple of minutes left. What's one piece of encouragement
you can offer to someone who identifies as a green
temperament or is in a relationship with one? And Rachel
will start with you.
S3 (11:16):
First, I would say it's really a blessing. As a green,
we can have a tendency to stay uninvolved or to
back off of areas where there is perceived conflict. I
would encourage take time to consider what really matters to
them and then lean into their study nature. And for
those with Greens, know that a lot is going on
under the surface time share.
S1 (11:36):
That is so good.
S2 (11:37):
So what I would love the greens to know is
that your calmness is a strength. You're uniquely wired to
be the calm in the midst of chaos, even though
others think and they may even say you appear lazy,
you are not. Other temperaments must learn to honor your
speed and timeline because you do get things done and understand.
(11:58):
Sometimes peace requires courage, not silence. It is important that
you learn to advocate for yourself because your voice matters.
And then lean in gently and trust that what you
bring to a financial or relational decision or conversation is
deeply valued.
S1 (12:17):
Hmm. Well, that is a great place for us to
wrap up today. Ladies, I so appreciate your willingness to
come by. Rachel, thank you for leaning into your greenness.
You even have a green shirt on today. I love.
S3 (12:29):
That.
S1 (12:29):
We appreciate you being here.
S3 (12:31):
Thank you.
S1 (12:31):
Rob. Kathleen. So thankful for you.
S2 (12:33):
Yes, thankful for you too, my friend.
S1 (12:35):
That's Kathleen Edelman. She's the author of the amazing work
in I Said This. You heard that how your wiring
Colors your communication folks, this workbook is a game changer.
Pick it up today wherever you buy books. And her
recent article in Faithful Steward dives deep into the money
conversation and how temperaments affect financial decisions you can receive.
(12:57):
Faithful steward when you become a faithful partner at faithful.
Com just click give. All right a quick break and
then back with your questions. The number 800 525 7000.
That's 800 525 7000. This is faith and finance. Live
biblical wisdom for your financial journey. We'll be right back.
S4 (13:28):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (13:53):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live here on Moody Radio. Boy, I am so
glad to be back. I had an amazing week last week. Uh,
taking some time away. My daughter and I were at
the JH ranch out in Northern California, just the two
of us for a week. Studying God's Word together. It
was incredible. But, uh, always good to come home as
(14:14):
well and can't wait to dive into your questions today.
So if you have a question or something, go ahead
and call right now 825 7000. The calls are coming
in quickly, but we do have some room for you
at the moment. 800 525 7000. Coming up today, a
little later in the broadcast, in our final segment, Bob
Dole Stops by. Bob will share an update on his
(14:36):
ten annual predictions. That's right. He's well known on Wall
Street for his ten annual predictions for the economy and
the markets. Well, given that we just passed the midway point,
he's going to weigh in with how he's doing. He'll
also reflect on the big boost on the 4th of July,
what that might mean for our economy moving forward, and tariffs,
(14:57):
all of that and more with Bob Dole straight ahead.
We're also going to be taking your calls and questions.
Let's go ahead and dive into those right now. We'll
begin in new Jersey Vince you'll be our first caller, sir.
Go ahead.
S5 (15:09):
Yes. Good evening. I mean, I'm telling you. Good evening.
Good afternoon, Mr. West. I'll be I'll be real quick
to start. My mother advised me to give you a
call because she said, you give excellent, good, godly Christian advice.
So that's why I'm calling with with the with the
two questions I posed. One one is a comment, but
(15:30):
the first question being, um, even though I have an
understanding of because I've done it before, um, I'm actually
filing a chapter seven bankruptcy. Because when I first went
to go see the lawyer, um, the the first time
I spoke to Mr. Pearlman, he didn't he didn't mention
about the chapter seven because I did the bankruptcy back
(15:50):
in 2017, 2020. So I hadn't passed the time factor yet.
But by the time I went back for the second
consultation next door, I spoke to Mike. He said I
was at the point where I could utilize the chapter seven,
because the first one I did was was the was
the chapter 13. That's why I did from 20, 2020.
(16:11):
And I just wanted to get your opinion, your advice. Uh,
and you know, what you feel about the to the
chapter seven and chapter 13. I don't remember people I
don't know. I don't know how people call in reference
to bankruptcy. But as I said, I'll be quick about this.
I am a disabled veteran living on a fixed income,
and that is the reason why the second lawyer, the
(16:31):
lawyer Mike, suggested the chapter seven to me because he
said how the federal government where hardware. The bankruptcy court
looks at it like if they don't really want to
take federal money away for you to pay a debt.
So he said once the chapter seven um, um, situation
is he said we should be found in chapter seven.
(16:52):
So that's all to my question and comment.
S1 (16:55):
Yeah. Very good. Well, Vince, I'm glad someone encouraged you
to get a second opinion. Sounds like it was your mom. And,
you know, bankruptcy should always. You won't find bankruptcy that
term in God's word. It's a modern legal term we've created. Um, and,
you know, I think coming and asking some questions before
you take that step, uh, there are two different types
of bankruptcy. You mentioned the chapter seven. That's called a liquidation,
(17:18):
where most unsecured debts are wiped away. But you may
have to give up some assets. It also stays on
your credit report for ten years. The 13 the chapter
13 is more like a repayment plan. You keep your
property but agree to make monthly payments for 3 to
5 years. That stays on your credit for seven years.
First thing I would do is meet with a trusted
(17:39):
credit counselor, preferably through a biblically based organization like our
friends at Christian Credit Counselors, just to see if they
can help you avoid bankruptcy by working out a more
manageable repayment plan with the creditors. Depending on what you're
dealing with, I realize you're on a fixed income. That
makes it challenging, but it's worth taking a look at.
I would also take stock of all of your options,
(18:01):
you know, are there assets you could sell? I'm thinking
of Second Kings four. You remember the in the widow's oil.
The widow's sons were taken to repay a debt left
by her deceased husband. She pleads with the prophet Elisha
for help. And in verse two he says, what shall
I do for you? Tell me, what have you in
the house? And as you may know, God miraculously made
(18:24):
enough oil poured out from that jar to repay off
the debt. The idea being, we just want to look
at all options here and trust God for a solution
if there is one now. In some cases, like a
job loss or a divorce or a medical crisis, bankruptcy
might be the only remaining option for legal protection. And
(18:44):
if that's the case, there's grace for that. But whenever possible,
we would encourage you, even after a bankruptcy, to make
every effort to repay what you owe. And, you know,
I would call out Psalm 3721, the wicked borrows and
does not repay. Now, I don't think that's meant to condemn,
but to remind us that whenever we can repay, we
(19:05):
should not out of guilt, but out of a desire
to walk in integrity and peace. And I want you
to know you're not alone in this. I'm sure this
is a heavy weight on you, but I think by
seeking some wise counsel, making this a matter of prayer
exhausting all possible, uh, you know, scenarios and trusting God
for his provision as your provider. I think there's hope ahead.
(19:26):
And again, you may end up with bankruptcy, but I
would explore every option prior to doing that. And so
if it were me, my next call would be to
our friends at Christian Credit Counselors. You'll find them on
the web at Christian Credit counselors.org. They'll pray with you,
look over your situation, help you determine whether there is
another payment plan option that could allow you to make
(19:48):
progress here without having to go through bankruptcy, whether it's
7 or 13, and then up into this as a
last resort. Does that make sense, though?
S5 (19:58):
Yeah, that that that makes sense, Mr. West. But but
you know, I'm the type of person as as I
said to my mother, I'm a type of person that
I do. My. You still there?
S1 (20:08):
Yes I am. Yeah. I'm up against a break here
in a second, but go ahead.
S5 (20:12):
Yeah. I'm sorry person. I do my homework before I
make calls. And though those other options you were talking about,
I'm really kind of not there. Because if I was there,
like I said, I'm not trying to be funny. But
I say, Mr. West, if I had a quarter million,
half of the amount, half $1 million in Swiss Bank somewhere,
I would have paid stuff off or.
S6 (20:32):
If I had 35.
S7 (20:33):
Let's do this. I've got to hit a break.
S1 (20:35):
Stay on the line. We'll talk during the break here.
We'll be right back.
S7 (20:43):
Great to have you with us today on Faith in
finance live.
S1 (20:46):
I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions. We've
got some room for you. Lines are open for your
questions at 800 525 7000. Again that number 800 525 7000.
You can call right now. Let's go to Indianapolis and
welcome Jackie. Go right ahead.
S8 (21:03):
Hi, Rob. Thank you for taking my question. Um, I'll
just give you a quick rundown. I'm. I'm 58. I'm single. Um,
my plan is to work until I'm 70, at least
full time, if not past that or part time. And
I've I've, I've struggled in the past, but I listen
to your show every day and I have, um, gotten
(21:25):
myself to a good spot. My only consumer debt is
I think it's said to be paid off in ten years,
but I always get on my amortization schedule and see
what I paid off sooner. And, um, I contribute to
my 401 K, contribute to an emergency fund $65 a week,
which doesn't sound like much, but over the last year
(21:47):
I've saved almost $4,000 and I have that I would
like everything to if and when I pass away. And
I looked into a trust and I had a friend
of mine who's an attorney, um, refer me to somebody
that he trusts. And it's, it's it depending on how
(22:09):
how complicated your situation is. And mine's fairly simple. Um,
but it would be about $2,000. And that's a lot
to me. That's that's about half of what I contribute
to my emergency fund. And, you know, my emergency fund
is not 3 to 6 months right now. And so
I think about this every time I listen to your show,
(22:29):
which is every day. At what point does it make
sense for me to direct money towards creating a trust
so that my kids are are in better shape? You know,
when I pass away? Um, I have three who are
grown and on with their careers and perfectly independent. And
(22:50):
I have I have one still at home who's a
high schooler. So for someone like me, who who? I
don't make a lot, but I live really frugally and
I try to manage my money really well. Um, it's
hard for me to think about spending $2,000, so I
was wondering what you thought about that.
S7 (23:11):
Well, that's a great.
S1 (23:11):
Question, Jackie, and sound like you're doing a wonderful job.
I appreciate you listening. You're making great progress and getting
your financial foundation in place and honoring God as a
steward of his resources. What is the primary objective? What
is it you're looking to accomplish with the trust. Specifically,
if you have something in mind versus just having an
(23:32):
up to date will and beneficiary designations.
S8 (23:36):
Good question, because I don't completely understand the process of
when you pass away. I've heard you talk about, you know,
the different things that can happen. My my four children,
one still being a teenager are are hopeful. So I
know if I passed away, I've made it clear to
all three of the older ones, hey, when I pass away,
(23:57):
everything and anything is an asset. Please divide equally between
the four of you and they would. I 100% trust
that they would. The younger one obviously is not funny
right now. Um, I can't afford to to spend my youngest, uh,
to send my youngest to college. So we're just going
(24:19):
to do our best to do all those things. But,
you know, I don't know. And and because I'm so behind.
Because I started so behind. I think that if I
continue working and saving in my 401 K, by the
time I'm 70, I might have $150,000. I really want
(24:39):
to get off before then so that when I whatever
I have, I live as frugally as possible and I
can make it. The question the trust is just to
keep it out of the courts and just keep it
for my kids to have as little hassle as possible, um,
and have it have it all safe.
S1 (25:00):
Yeah. Well that's helpful. I mean, I think there's not
really any difference in terms of a safety really does
come down to the things you said. Number one, if
you didn't want any of the assets to go right
to the heirs at your death, and you wanted them
to be distributed over time or based on them reaching
certain ages, then that's where a trust really shines, because
(25:21):
the trustee could, you know, based on the trust documents,
manage the trust and then distribute based on the language
you set up inside the trust. Second, doesn't go through probate,
which you mentioned. And third, it is private. So it
does accomplish a few, but it's not really any safer
because with a will, basically it would be less expensive.
(25:42):
The will says who gets your stuff when you die?
But it does through go through probate which takes, you know,
we'll have some cost to it and take some time. Um,
but to your point, you've got other priorities. And so
I think, you know, at a minimum, I would say
if you have an up to date will and you
have beneficiary designations in place, meaning for any accounts like
(26:05):
a retirement account or a bank account, where it allows
you to name a beneficiary, um, you know, those things
are going out of probate. And I would say for
most people, funding retirement and building savings comes first. And
a trust can wait until you have more a more
complex estate need. um, you know, if you had special
needs children or significant assets or minor children is a factor.
(26:29):
Although with a will going to a minor child. Uh,
you know, basically the court would appoint a guardian of
the property until the child turns either 18 or 21,
depending on the state. But that means court oversight and
paperwork involved reaches legal age. They would get full control.
So a trust is better, but not absolutely necessary. So
(26:51):
I would say if you really have a conviction around
getting those in place, I don't think there's any problem.
As long as you have an up to date will
and beneficiary designations in place wherever possible, that would cover
your needs for now. And then you could always add
a trust later when your financial foundation is stronger. Does
that make sense?
S8 (27:12):
That does make sense. And I the the only concern
is with my youngest. Um, his father is not responsible
with money, and he would be the obvious guardian if
I passed away. And so what I've thought about doing
is just to keep that money from being spent in
a way it shouldn't be, would be to have my
(27:34):
beneficiary be my three older children at a third each,
and then just tell them and say, hey, it's really
a quarter each. I want you guys to to save
his for him because I do trust them. And they
would 100% do that if I asked them to. Is
that something that that's okay to do?
S7 (27:54):
Yeah. I mean.
S1 (27:55):
Legally it would be their money. But, you know, certainly
you could do that and just kind of have a
side conversation. What might be simpler is just to pick
one of them and say, listen, I'm going to allocate
his portion to you if you'll set it aside and
manage it and pass it over to him when that
time comes. The other approach is to go ahead and
(28:15):
put that trust in place and, you know, see if
you can find somebody. I mean, even a couple of
thousand dollars, maybe you could, you know, save up for
a few months and maybe you just delay that paying
off the home. I think you're putting an extra $500
a month toward the house, so maybe you end up
paying it off six months later, and you take that
500 for the next four months and and put it
(28:35):
into savings so you can pay for the trust, because
that would allow you to name a trustee whoever you want.
And then you wouldn't have to worry about anybody else
controlling that money. But I think either option could work
a will and beneficiary. And then, you know, ask one
of those children to hang on to the money and,
and give it to the other child at the age
of majority, or go ahead and just delay that home,
(28:56):
pay off the accelerated payment and, and put that in
savings and, and go ahead and get that trust in place.
And you'll probably feel a lot better that you've got
everything buttoned up at that point. Jackie, you sound like
a wonderful person. Thanks for your call today. We'll be
right back.
S7 (29:17):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live.
S1 (29:19):
I'm Rob West here in our final segment today. Bob
Dole is here. Bob is CIO and CEO at Crossmark
Global Investments, a leader in faith based investing. And the, uh,
we just past the midway point of the year, which
means it's a great time to check in on those
ten annual predictions. How you doing?
S9 (29:37):
So far? So good. Um, usually by of the year
we're getting a few wrong, Rob. And while we haven't
gotten them all right, um, we have a chance of
getting them. All right. So, uh, it's a good thing,
and it's been a topsy turvy year. Uh, we did
predict some volatility and some downward action in the market. And, uh,
you know, we've gotten some of that. And, uh, let's
(29:59):
hope it's onward and upward, as it certainly has been
for the last couple of three months.
S1 (30:04):
Yeah, no doubt about it. Although uh Dow Jones uh,
and the S&P off today Bob. Uh, most of this
I guess driven by the tariffs.
S9 (30:13):
I think so um, over the weekend and again, more today.
The administration and the president in particular, noting that there's
a lot more work to do and there's upside in
the tariffs. And that has in the past and again
today caused the market to get the wobbles a bit.
And that's what we're witnessing. And um, I think just
(30:35):
some profit taking going on. And this was a good
excuse as well because the market's been so strong.
S1 (30:41):
Yeah. Bob the the dollar has been selling off. I
saw a headline today. It said the it's the worst
first half of a year return in more than 50
years for the US dollar. I think it's down about 10%
through June. Should we be concerned about that? What are
the implications?
S9 (30:58):
Well, the implications are several. Um, it's good for stocks
because think about the translation of multinational earnings back to
US dollars. Um, and that's a positive, um, with, with
a weaker dollar. Uh, other than that, it makes, uh,
the ability of people to buy American goods more attractive,
(31:20):
and that helps our economic growth. So in the short term,
there are some positives that I think it's part of
the reason that earnings so well in the first quarter
and might be good again in the second quarter.
S1 (31:32):
Mhm. Yeah. What about just longer term. Is that trend
concerning as it plays out over time.
S9 (31:39):
Well I think one more note. The president would like
a lower dollar for reasons that it would juice economic
the economy in the United States a bit. So his
railing against the fed chair is in part, I think,
to disrupt the dollar. Uh, and he's been successful at that? Yes.
(31:59):
Long term. We don't want a currency. You want a
strong currency. You want your your your country, uh, relative
to the rest of the world to show a good currency.
So it is concerning if it continues.
S7 (32:11):
Yeah.
S1 (32:11):
Very good. Uh, Bob, just in terms of the big
beautiful bill, obviously, uh, July the 4th was quite the
spectacle with that, uh, being signed into law. What are
the implications of that? Just as you look at this
massive bill and think about how this may affect our
economy moving forward.
S9 (32:29):
You have a massive bill. It covers so many areas.
That's why I guess they call it the one big bill.
And they they got it done. Uh, the president just
jawboned and jawboned and probably threatened in words, uh, with
a lot of people to get it done. Look, it's
a big bill. It spends a lot of money. So
it only adds to the deficits, adds to the debt
(32:53):
of the United States. Now, to be self-critical, a bill
like this is better than no bill at all. And
no bill is. You and I have been talking would
result in the biggest tax increase in U.S. history. Uh,
that's not a good alternative. Now, could we have done
something a little better than we were where we were? Absolutely.
But as the saying goes, don't let the perfect get
(33:16):
in the way of the good. And so they passed
the bill, although a lot of Republicans didn't really want
to vote for it, but they, quote, had to and
felt that pressure. This will take in the short term. Rob,
any concerns or most concerns about an economic downturn away
a recession? Um, and that's good news. We don't need
(33:36):
a recession. On the other hand, it's going to bring
up those longer term problems about how much money can
you spend, how high can you raise debt levels, how
can you come up with the interest expense, etc.. But
in the short term, people love it. Worry about the
debt later. As they say.
S1 (33:55):
Yeah. I mean, a lot of people are analyzing the
fiscal trajectory. We are we're on. I've seen some models
that say, you know, it could be sometime in the
years that tax hikes or spending cuts may not be
enough to stave off default at that point, whether that's
an implicit default or otherwise. But just from a technical standpoint. Bob,
(34:15):
what concerns do you have? And, you know, obviously the
Treasury secretary was making the case on the Sunday shows that,
you know, this could really juice the economy and that
could make up for some of the the spending that's
in this bill.
S9 (34:29):
Yeah, it certainly will grow some more than we might
otherwise have grown. But that deficit has gotten so big
that it will result in a whole lot more debt
being piled on. And at some point it will matter. Um,
you know, you are sayings that say long term debt
by the US government really doesn't matter. I don't know
(34:52):
if I owe somebody some money. I got to pay
them back or they're going to come after me. That
eventually will happen to the US. Predicting when that is. Rob,
as you know, is an impossibility.
S1 (35:02):
Yeah. Very good. All right, Bob, what about just the
overall health of the markets right now, as you're looking
at us here at the midway point of the year.
What are you thinking about for the back half?
S9 (35:12):
So, um, I think you know that we've been cautious, um,
and actually, since the first of the year, being cautious
isn't the worst thing in the world. Um, I wish
we were negative and then positive and now cautious again. But, uh, nevertheless,
my problem is valuation. The market selling it at 23,
24 times earnings is expecting a near perfect world. And
(35:35):
you and I both know that's not the case. Uh,
earnings are going to have some good points and some
not so good points. And the market probably struggles with
that a bit. We're not through the tariff problems. We
point out. My expectation is inflation is going to rise
a bit with the tariff issues. So I want to
be cautious. I want to be invested, but I'm going
(35:56):
to be really careful what I own and at what
price I own it.
S1 (36:00):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. All right, Bob,
thanks my friend. We appreciate you stopping by today.
S9 (36:05):
Have a great week.
S1 (36:06):
All right. That's Bob Dahl. Dole. He's chief investment officer
and CEO at Crossmark Global Investments. You can sign up
for his weekly investment commentary. Crossmark Global.com. All right. Here.
We have just a few minutes left. Let's try to
jump back into some phone calls. Pennsylvania is where we're
headed next. Hi, Ellen. Go ahead.
S10 (36:23):
Hi. Um, I, we were thinking of, uh, giving to
our nephew. Um, either now where we're living or or
after we pass away. And so I wanted to tell
my brother about, like, a special needs trust versus an
able account or what the difference is.
S7 (36:40):
Yes. Very good. It's a great, great question.
S1 (36:43):
You know, they can work very closely together. Uh, essentially,
the special needs trust would let you leave money for
your nephew without hurting his government benefits like Medicaid or SSI.
It can hold larger amounts and be used for many expenses. Uh,
it's managed by a trustee. It's often used for an inheritance.
(37:04):
But the key is that qualification for Medicaid or SSI.
Even with those assets that could, you know, go a
long way toward helping him maintain his lifestyle throughout his life.
The Able account is a tax advantaged savings account for
disability related expenses. You can have up to $100,000 in
(37:26):
it without affecting SSI, and it can be spent on
qualified disability expenses. It's better for smaller gifts. Um, you know,
while you're living. So, you know, I think, uh, you know,
both of them can work very closely together, kind of in,
in tandem to one another and serve a great purpose. Um,
(37:48):
you know, I think the key is, uh, the special
needs trust is going to have an attorney set it up,
but it can hold a lot more. And, you know,
I think the the key would be that, you know,
it really comes down to how much you're looking to
put away over time. And, you know, for most people,
if people, if we're talking about putting away certainly more
than $100,000, you're going to need that special needs trust.
(38:11):
The question is, do you also want the able alongside it?
Does that make sense?
S10 (38:15):
Yes. Thank you.
S1 (38:17):
Okay. Yeah I would think about the able account being
for daily living expenses and the special needs trust for
an inheritance or big ticket items. The able account is
better for housing and food and and basic expenses without
hurting the SSI. The special needs trust is for larger
funds and broader expenses. But you have to be careful
(38:38):
with the basic living costs, because if you use it
for basic living, it can affect the SSI. And that's
where the able account, you know, working together can be
really helpful. So what I would do, Ellen, is get
with an attorney who specializes in this type of trust. And,
you know, they can talk through all of the mechanics
(38:59):
of getting it set up and then decide what goes
into the special needs trust. What account? But. Sounds like
you're a wonderful aunt. And I love that you're thinking
in advance about how you could bless this nephew of
yours throughout his life. Thanks for calling today. Let's go
to Nashville. Jennifer, go right ahead.
S11 (39:18):
Hi. Thanks for grabbing my call. Sure. My husband left
a year ago. I had 150,000 in cash. I have
spent $100,000, just like I spent money when we were married.
And I only have $50,000 left. Um, I have stopped
all of that. And I think I've worked through the
(39:39):
shame and embarrassment of all of it all. And I
really don't know where to go from here. I have
a GED, and I had a traumatic brain injury. And
so I don't have the the energy and the, the,
the stuff I used to have to be able to
go out and sell and make a decent amount of money.
So it's it's going to be a different life. Um,
(40:01):
where do I start?
S1 (40:03):
Yeah. Well, Jennifer, first of all, I appreciate your call
and your transparency. And it sounds like you've been through it. And, um,
I'm delighted you're reaching out for some help. And I'd
love to provide that. What I would recommend is that
we get you connected with a certified Christian financial counselor. Uh,
we have a team of counselors that have been trained
to do just that to God's people and help you
(40:25):
create a plan. Look at your assets and liabilities, help
you put a spending plan in place, and see if
we can come up with a budget that allows you
to preserve what's left of your savings, live within your means.
And I realize that's easier said than done, but they
can help you at least understand where you are and
where you go from here. And we'd love to cover
the cost of that person meeting with you several times
(40:47):
to put all that in place. So let's do this.
I'm at the end of the program. You stay on
the line, we'll finish up off the air, and I'll get, uh,
counselor in touch with you. Hang right there. Faith and
Finance Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith fi.
We'll see you tomorrow.
Wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways.
But the folly of fools is deception. Proverbs 14, verse eight.
I am Rob West. Today we're continuing our series on temperaments.
How our God given wiring shapes the way we communicate,
relate to others and make financial decisions with us and
(00:28):
how it influences our approach to money. Then it's on
to your calls at 800 525 7000. This is faith
and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well,
we're thrilled to have Kathleen Edelman back with us today.
She's a communication and temperament expert and the author of
(00:48):
the recently revised. I said this, you heard that how
you're wiring colours your communication. Kathleen. Always a pleasure to
have you here.
S2 (00:57):
Oh, I'm so happy to be here again. This is
so great.
S1 (01:00):
Well, we have loved this series. I think we're helping
so many people. Kathleen, as you know, we're joined today
by Rachel Petty as well. She's a valued member of
your team. And, Rachel, I'm thrilled you're here.
S3 (01:11):
Thanks so much, Rob.
S1 (01:12):
Absolutely. Well, last week we kicked off the series by
diving into the red temperament. And today we're shifting our
focus to the green temperament. Now, Rachel, we understand that
you fall personally into this color, and we'll get into
what that looks like in just a moment. But, Kathleen,
if people are listening today saying, red, green, what are
you talking about? Give us a quick refresher on the
(01:32):
temperament model you teach.
S2 (01:33):
Of course. So temperament dates back to Hippocrates, and temperament
falls into four different categories, and each speaks their own
language and they have distinct strengths and weaknesses. So the
yellow sanguine is an extrovert that's people oriented. They speak
the language of people and fun.
S1 (01:50):
That's me.
S2 (01:51):
Yes. That's you. The Red choleric is an extrovert that's
task oriented. They speak the language of power and We're
in control. The blue is a melancholic. They're an introvert
that's task oriented. They speak the language of perfection and order.
And that's me. And then Rachel is green. She's a phlegmatic.
She's an introvert. And listen, she's people oriented and they
(02:13):
speak the language of calm and harmony. So this shapes communication,
decision making, relationships and how you handle money.
S1 (02:20):
Yeah. You touched on this. But quickly talk to somebody
who's saying, wait a minute, introvert and people oriented. How
does that work?
S2 (02:27):
Well, this is communication. That's what I teach. And so
when you look at the chart that's in my book,
you have to find out that temperament, the foundation of
it is extrovert introvert people and task. Right. That's the foundation.
If we just knew that, we could start identifying who
we are.
S1 (02:43):
All right. So now it's time to zero in on
one of our friends. We're going to focus today on
the green or the phlegmatic. And Rachel, you took the
assessment found out that green is your dominant temperament. So
let's start with your initial reaction.
S3 (02:57):
Honestly, I wasn't very surprised because I've been told my
whole life I was easygoing, calm and steady, probably like
other people. The strengths were easy to own, but the
winning feelings go inward and and really, that was a
huge aha moment. Different than other assessments that helped me
understand communication and interactions with people.
S2 (03:18):
Well, this is interesting because that's exactly when we're talking extrovert.
Introvert I teach it's how you process information. So that's
what she's talking about. Like when we were out of red.
So greens can often feel overlooked or misunderstood. They're actually
relationship glue. This is the person again that's an introvert.
(03:38):
They inward process. But they will approach people. So they're
uniquely wired to be the calm in the midst of chaos.
They innately are great leaders of people where Reds are
great leaders of tasks.
S1 (03:52):
Interesting. Yeah. So when everything goes haywire at your home.
You're the person we want in the mix.
S2 (03:58):
That's exactly.
S1 (03:59):
Right. So in what ways does your green temperament influence decisions?
S3 (04:04):
Well, I love making a plan ahead of time and
accountability that comes from a budget, particularly with someone else. Okay,
I Shashi financial risks. I'm a slow plotter when it
comes to long term planning. I like to kind of
set it and forget it. I have had to learn
to communicate around concrete numbers and not feelings or stress
(04:25):
over things. I really like low stress talks about money. Yeah.
I usually want to decide once, like I said, and
not really revisit often. I think drilling into the details.
S1 (04:35):
Yeah, that makes sense. So you don't want to micromanage
the finances. You want to just make that decision thoughtfully
and move on.
S3 (04:42):
That's what I.
S1 (04:43):
Prefer. Yeah, that makes sense. All right. Well, Kathleen's going
to reflect on that here in a moment. We're going
to continue to unpack this. What are strategies the green
temperament can use to make more confident financial decisions. And
what if you have a green temperament in your life?
How do you communicate with them? Kathleen Edelman, Rachel Petty
here today we're talking temperaments and money. We'll be right back.
(05:12):
Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live.
I'm Rob West with vacation and temperament expert for each
of the four relate to money. Today we're focused on
men and our. If green is Rachel Kathleen's team about
how it affects decision making. And Kathleen, before the break uh,
ahead of time. He likes to and has, but she
(05:34):
likes when people and she move over.
S2 (05:37):
Because the Greens innate need for harmony plays a role.
They're going to do whatever they can to keep the peace.
Maybe avoiding action or avoiding conflict. Right. And that could
lead to procrastination, especially with long term planning. So when
we communicate with a green, it would benefit all of
us to communicate with gentle encouragement and small, manageable steps.
(06:02):
And when we ask for their thoughts and opinions and
give them time to think, the Greens actually make very
thoughtful and steady financial decisions.
S1 (06:11):
Yeah, that's really helpful. All right, Rachel, so what strategies
have you found, given that you're an inward processor, but
you're focused on people as a green? How do you
feel more confident when making financial decisions?
S3 (06:25):
Well, I can think of three strategies that I use. Okay.
Stay involved and speak my mind so I can tend
towards being unengaged and letting others decide things. Yeah, that
really relates to any choice, but it's a discipline for
me to jump off the fence and choose a choice
or a strategy or an action.
S1 (06:42):
Yeah. And that's in part because you don't want the conflict, right?
But you need to engage.
S3 (06:46):
But I have learned that conflict comes when I don't
make a decision more often than when I jump off
the fence and do make a decision. That's helpful. The
second one is naming what matters when making a big decision.
I really benefit from thinking about a name in a situation, um,
that gives me and whoever I'm talking with a common
language on that macro level, and then we can use
(07:08):
that as a grid to make the decisions further on
in smaller choices.
S1 (07:11):
So give me an example of that.
S3 (07:13):
So I can think of my husband and I deciding
about what a trip is going to look like, whether
it's going to be a relaxing vacation, a family trip,
visiting relatives, or a time for adventure, which is definitely
his favorite. But that kind of helps us know what
is that time going to look like? What are we
going to spend money on? How is it going to
be structured and all those decisions that come from that? Obviously,
(07:34):
you can't always get what you want, but it helps
me decide and prioritize more easily. And then the third
is having or making a deadline. That's really helpful for
me for accountability. I can see a lot of paths forward,
but a deadline helps me move into action.
S1 (07:48):
That makes sense.
S2 (07:49):
And that's right. You know, greens thrive when they feel
valued and respected. So this is a person. Their voice
may be quiet, but it's important. So give them time
to process and the space for them to access their insight.
And um what we hear is they resent being pushed.
If they are pushed, they will definitely slow down. And
(08:12):
they may even stop. So they will absolutely come to
a decision. Or if they are pushed, you know, to think.
S1 (08:22):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now Rachel husband
several times. What can you share with us about how
your temperament shapes the way you communicate about money specifically?
S3 (08:33):
So my husband and I are opposites, and I'm really
thankful for the accountability that that relationship brings, because I'm
not really sure where I would end up on my own. Um,
I might find accountability with someone else, but my husband
is great at encouraging me, and I'm really grateful that
we talk things through ahead of time. We make decisions together.
Otherwise I can tend to be overwhelmed.
S2 (08:55):
Yeah. So greens really, they have no sense of urgency.
So clear guidelines and timelines help them achieve their goals.
They want to be included, not pressured. So reducing pressure
and conflict will result in healthier communication and way more
thoughtful outcomes for everyone.
S1 (09:15):
That's really helpful. Kathleen. Um, I know you've identified specific
what you call innate needs for each temperament. I think
this will be helpful for audience. Share what those are
for the green temperament.
S2 (09:26):
Absolutely. So innate needs is what separates me from all
other assessments. And for the green harmony, everyone get along. Yep.
Lack of stress, the absence of conflict or combative words.
Feeling of worth appreciated for their unique strengths and respect.
Being asked for their thoughts and opinions. So when these
(09:47):
innate needs are met, Greens are calm, they're kind, they're
great listeners. They want the other temperaments to know that
they do have good opinions, and they do have thoughts
that they want to share, even though, you know, they
may be a person of very few words. But when
these innate needs are ignored, they may start to control
(10:07):
by withdrawing or procrastinating.
S1 (10:10):
Interesting. All right, Rachel, so as you hear those harmony,
lack of stress, feeling of worth and respect, how are
those reflected in your life?
S3 (10:18):
Well, when I think of respect, I content with many
circumstances or outcomes. But I do appreciate when my opinion
is asked for and when I've been given time to
speak it out. So I first have to consider my
opinion and then choose to share it. And really, that's
advocating for myself instead of taking the easier route of withdrawing.
Sometimes though, if I'm honest, things don't really matter to
(10:39):
me one way or the other. I'm content with any choice,
and I used to find myself saying, I don't care
what we do, but I've learned to shift that to
I don't have a preference this time, which doesn't communicate
withdrawal like I don't care.
S1 (10:52):
Yeah, it's completely different because in some cases you absolutely care,
but in others you're okay deferring to someone else.
S3 (11:00):
That has been a game changer in conversations about things.
S1 (11:03):
Yeah. That's helpful. As we wrap up, we've got just
a couple of minutes left. What's one piece of encouragement
you can offer to someone who identifies as a green
temperament or is in a relationship with one? And Rachel
will start with you.
S3 (11:16):
First, I would say it's really a blessing. As a green,
we can have a tendency to stay uninvolved or to
back off of areas where there is perceived conflict. I
would encourage take time to consider what really matters to
them and then lean into their study nature. And for
those with Greens, know that a lot is going on
under the surface time share.
S1 (11:36):
That is so good.
S2 (11:37):
So what I would love the greens to know is
that your calmness is a strength. You're uniquely wired to
be the calm in the midst of chaos, even though
others think and they may even say you appear lazy,
you are not. Other temperaments must learn to honor your
speed and timeline because you do get things done and understand.
(11:58):
Sometimes peace requires courage, not silence. It is important that
you learn to advocate for yourself because your voice matters.
And then lean in gently and trust that what you
bring to a financial or relational decision or conversation is
deeply valued.
S1 (12:17):
Hmm. Well, that is a great place for us to
wrap up today. Ladies, I so appreciate your willingness to
come by. Rachel, thank you for leaning into your greenness.
You even have a green shirt on today. I love.
S3 (12:29):
That.
S1 (12:29):
We appreciate you being here.
S3 (12:31):
Thank you.
S1 (12:31):
Rob. Kathleen. So thankful for you.
S2 (12:33):
Yes, thankful for you too, my friend.
S1 (12:35):
That's Kathleen Edelman. She's the author of the amazing work
in I Said This. You heard that how your wiring
Colors your communication folks, this workbook is a game changer.
Pick it up today wherever you buy books. And her
recent article in Faithful Steward dives deep into the money
conversation and how temperaments affect financial decisions you can receive.
(12:57):
Faithful steward when you become a faithful partner at faithful.
Com just click give. All right a quick break and
then back with your questions. The number 800 525 7000.
That's 800 525 7000. This is faith and finance. Live
biblical wisdom for your financial journey. We'll be right back.
S4 (13:28):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (13:53):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live here on Moody Radio. Boy, I am so
glad to be back. I had an amazing week last week. Uh,
taking some time away. My daughter and I were at
the JH ranch out in Northern California, just the two
of us for a week. Studying God's Word together. It
was incredible. But, uh, always good to come home as
(14:14):
well and can't wait to dive into your questions today.
So if you have a question or something, go ahead
and call right now 825 7000. The calls are coming
in quickly, but we do have some room for you
at the moment. 800 525 7000. Coming up today, a
little later in the broadcast, in our final segment, Bob
Dole Stops by. Bob will share an update on his
(14:36):
ten annual predictions. That's right. He's well known on Wall
Street for his ten annual predictions for the economy and
the markets. Well, given that we just passed the midway point,
he's going to weigh in with how he's doing. He'll
also reflect on the big boost on the 4th of July,
what that might mean for our economy moving forward, and tariffs,
(14:57):
all of that and more with Bob Dole straight ahead.
We're also going to be taking your calls and questions.
Let's go ahead and dive into those right now. We'll
begin in new Jersey Vince you'll be our first caller, sir.
Go ahead.
S5 (15:09):
Yes. Good evening. I mean, I'm telling you. Good evening.
Good afternoon, Mr. West. I'll be I'll be real quick
to start. My mother advised me to give you a
call because she said, you give excellent, good, godly Christian advice.
So that's why I'm calling with with the with the
two questions I posed. One one is a comment, but
(15:30):
the first question being, um, even though I have an
understanding of because I've done it before, um, I'm actually
filing a chapter seven bankruptcy. Because when I first went
to go see the lawyer, um, the the first time
I spoke to Mr. Pearlman, he didn't he didn't mention
about the chapter seven because I did the bankruptcy back
(15:50):
in 2017, 2020. So I hadn't passed the time factor yet.
But by the time I went back for the second
consultation next door, I spoke to Mike. He said I
was at the point where I could utilize the chapter seven,
because the first one I did was was the was
the chapter 13. That's why I did from 20, 2020.
(16:11):
And I just wanted to get your opinion, your advice. Uh,
and you know, what you feel about the to the
chapter seven and chapter 13. I don't remember people I
don't know. I don't know how people call in reference
to bankruptcy. But as I said, I'll be quick about this.
I am a disabled veteran living on a fixed income,
and that is the reason why the second lawyer, the
(16:31):
lawyer Mike, suggested the chapter seven to me because he
said how the federal government where hardware. The bankruptcy court
looks at it like if they don't really want to
take federal money away for you to pay a debt.
So he said once the chapter seven um, um, situation
is he said we should be found in chapter seven.
(16:52):
So that's all to my question and comment.
S1 (16:55):
Yeah. Very good. Well, Vince, I'm glad someone encouraged you
to get a second opinion. Sounds like it was your mom. And,
you know, bankruptcy should always. You won't find bankruptcy that
term in God's word. It's a modern legal term we've created. Um, and,
you know, I think coming and asking some questions before
you take that step, uh, there are two different types
of bankruptcy. You mentioned the chapter seven. That's called a liquidation,
(17:18):
where most unsecured debts are wiped away. But you may
have to give up some assets. It also stays on
your credit report for ten years. The 13 the chapter
13 is more like a repayment plan. You keep your
property but agree to make monthly payments for 3 to
5 years. That stays on your credit for seven years.
First thing I would do is meet with a trusted
(17:39):
credit counselor, preferably through a biblically based organization like our
friends at Christian Credit Counselors, just to see if they
can help you avoid bankruptcy by working out a more
manageable repayment plan with the creditors. Depending on what you're
dealing with, I realize you're on a fixed income. That
makes it challenging, but it's worth taking a look at.
I would also take stock of all of your options,
(18:01):
you know, are there assets you could sell? I'm thinking
of Second Kings four. You remember the in the widow's oil.
The widow's sons were taken to repay a debt left
by her deceased husband. She pleads with the prophet Elisha
for help. And in verse two he says, what shall
I do for you? Tell me, what have you in
the house? And as you may know, God miraculously made
(18:24):
enough oil poured out from that jar to repay off
the debt. The idea being, we just want to look
at all options here and trust God for a solution
if there is one now. In some cases, like a
job loss or a divorce or a medical crisis, bankruptcy
might be the only remaining option for legal protection. And
(18:44):
if that's the case, there's grace for that. But whenever possible,
we would encourage you, even after a bankruptcy, to make
every effort to repay what you owe. And, you know,
I would call out Psalm 3721, the wicked borrows and
does not repay. Now, I don't think that's meant to condemn,
but to remind us that whenever we can repay, we
(19:05):
should not out of guilt, but out of a desire
to walk in integrity and peace. And I want you
to know you're not alone in this. I'm sure this
is a heavy weight on you, but I think by
seeking some wise counsel, making this a matter of prayer
exhausting all possible, uh, you know, scenarios and trusting God
for his provision as your provider. I think there's hope ahead.
(19:26):
And again, you may end up with bankruptcy, but I
would explore every option prior to doing that. And so
if it were me, my next call would be to
our friends at Christian Credit Counselors. You'll find them on
the web at Christian Credit counselors.org. They'll pray with you,
look over your situation, help you determine whether there is
another payment plan option that could allow you to make
(19:48):
progress here without having to go through bankruptcy, whether it's
7 or 13, and then up into this as a
last resort. Does that make sense, though?
S5 (19:58):
Yeah, that that that makes sense, Mr. West. But but
you know, I'm the type of person as as I
said to my mother, I'm a type of person that
I do. My. You still there?
S1 (20:08):
Yes I am. Yeah. I'm up against a break here
in a second, but go ahead.
S5 (20:12):
Yeah. I'm sorry person. I do my homework before I
make calls. And though those other options you were talking about,
I'm really kind of not there. Because if I was there,
like I said, I'm not trying to be funny. But
I say, Mr. West, if I had a quarter million,
half of the amount, half $1 million in Swiss Bank somewhere,
I would have paid stuff off or.
S6 (20:32):
If I had 35.
S7 (20:33):
Let's do this. I've got to hit a break.
S1 (20:35):
Stay on the line. We'll talk during the break here.
We'll be right back.
S7 (20:43):
Great to have you with us today on Faith in
finance live.
S1 (20:46):
I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions. We've
got some room for you. Lines are open for your
questions at 800 525 7000. Again that number 800 525 7000.
You can call right now. Let's go to Indianapolis and
welcome Jackie. Go right ahead.
S8 (21:03):
Hi, Rob. Thank you for taking my question. Um, I'll
just give you a quick rundown. I'm. I'm 58. I'm single. Um,
my plan is to work until I'm 70, at least
full time, if not past that or part time. And
I've I've, I've struggled in the past, but I listen
to your show every day and I have, um, gotten
(21:25):
myself to a good spot. My only consumer debt is
I think it's said to be paid off in ten years,
but I always get on my amortization schedule and see
what I paid off sooner. And, um, I contribute to
my 401 K, contribute to an emergency fund $65 a week,
which doesn't sound like much, but over the last year
(21:47):
I've saved almost $4,000 and I have that I would
like everything to if and when I pass away. And
I looked into a trust and I had a friend
of mine who's an attorney, um, refer me to somebody
that he trusts. And it's, it's it depending on how
(22:09):
how complicated your situation is. And mine's fairly simple. Um,
but it would be about $2,000. And that's a lot
to me. That's that's about half of what I contribute
to my emergency fund. And, you know, my emergency fund
is not 3 to 6 months right now. And so
I think about this every time I listen to your show,
(22:29):
which is every day. At what point does it make
sense for me to direct money towards creating a trust
so that my kids are are in better shape? You know,
when I pass away? Um, I have three who are
grown and on with their careers and perfectly independent. And
(22:50):
I have I have one still at home who's a
high schooler. So for someone like me, who who? I
don't make a lot, but I live really frugally and
I try to manage my money really well. Um, it's
hard for me to think about spending $2,000, so I
was wondering what you thought about that.
S7 (23:11):
Well, that's a great.
S1 (23:11):
Question, Jackie, and sound like you're doing a wonderful job.
I appreciate you listening. You're making great progress and getting
your financial foundation in place and honoring God as a
steward of his resources. What is the primary objective? What
is it you're looking to accomplish with the trust. Specifically,
if you have something in mind versus just having an
(23:32):
up to date will and beneficiary designations.
S8 (23:36):
Good question, because I don't completely understand the process of
when you pass away. I've heard you talk about, you know,
the different things that can happen. My my four children,
one still being a teenager are are hopeful. So I
know if I passed away, I've made it clear to
all three of the older ones, hey, when I pass away,
(23:57):
everything and anything is an asset. Please divide equally between
the four of you and they would. I 100% trust
that they would. The younger one obviously is not funny
right now. Um, I can't afford to to spend my youngest, uh,
to send my youngest to college. So we're just going
(24:19):
to do our best to do all those things. But,
you know, I don't know. And and because I'm so behind.
Because I started so behind. I think that if I
continue working and saving in my 401 K, by the
time I'm 70, I might have $150,000. I really want
(24:39):
to get off before then so that when I whatever
I have, I live as frugally as possible and I
can make it. The question the trust is just to
keep it out of the courts and just keep it
for my kids to have as little hassle as possible, um,
and have it have it all safe.
S1 (25:00):
Yeah. Well that's helpful. I mean, I think there's not
really any difference in terms of a safety really does
come down to the things you said. Number one, if
you didn't want any of the assets to go right
to the heirs at your death, and you wanted them
to be distributed over time or based on them reaching
certain ages, then that's where a trust really shines, because
(25:21):
the trustee could, you know, based on the trust documents,
manage the trust and then distribute based on the language
you set up inside the trust. Second, doesn't go through probate,
which you mentioned. And third, it is private. So it
does accomplish a few, but it's not really any safer
because with a will, basically it would be less expensive.
(25:42):
The will says who gets your stuff when you die?
But it does through go through probate which takes, you know,
we'll have some cost to it and take some time. Um,
but to your point, you've got other priorities. And so
I think, you know, at a minimum, I would say
if you have an up to date will and you
have beneficiary designations in place, meaning for any accounts like
(26:05):
a retirement account or a bank account, where it allows
you to name a beneficiary, um, you know, those things
are going out of probate. And I would say for
most people, funding retirement and building savings comes first. And
a trust can wait until you have more a more
complex estate need. um, you know, if you had special
needs children or significant assets or minor children is a factor.
(26:29):
Although with a will going to a minor child. Uh,
you know, basically the court would appoint a guardian of
the property until the child turns either 18 or 21,
depending on the state. But that means court oversight and
paperwork involved reaches legal age. They would get full control.
So a trust is better, but not absolutely necessary. So
(26:51):
I would say if you really have a conviction around
getting those in place, I don't think there's any problem.
As long as you have an up to date will
and beneficiary designations in place wherever possible, that would cover
your needs for now. And then you could always add
a trust later when your financial foundation is stronger. Does
that make sense?
S8 (27:12):
That does make sense. And I the the only concern
is with my youngest. Um, his father is not responsible
with money, and he would be the obvious guardian if
I passed away. And so what I've thought about doing
is just to keep that money from being spent in
a way it shouldn't be, would be to have my
(27:34):
beneficiary be my three older children at a third each,
and then just tell them and say, hey, it's really
a quarter each. I want you guys to to save
his for him because I do trust them. And they
would 100% do that if I asked them to. Is
that something that that's okay to do?
S7 (27:54):
Yeah. I mean.
S1 (27:55):
Legally it would be their money. But, you know, certainly
you could do that and just kind of have a
side conversation. What might be simpler is just to pick
one of them and say, listen, I'm going to allocate
his portion to you if you'll set it aside and
manage it and pass it over to him when that
time comes. The other approach is to go ahead and
(28:15):
put that trust in place and, you know, see if
you can find somebody. I mean, even a couple of
thousand dollars, maybe you could, you know, save up for
a few months and maybe you just delay that paying
off the home. I think you're putting an extra $500
a month toward the house, so maybe you end up
paying it off six months later, and you take that
500 for the next four months and and put it
(28:35):
into savings so you can pay for the trust, because
that would allow you to name a trustee whoever you want.
And then you wouldn't have to worry about anybody else
controlling that money. But I think either option could work
a will and beneficiary. And then, you know, ask one
of those children to hang on to the money and,
and give it to the other child at the age
of majority, or go ahead and just delay that home,
(28:56):
pay off the accelerated payment and, and put that in
savings and, and go ahead and get that trust in place.
And you'll probably feel a lot better that you've got
everything buttoned up at that point. Jackie, you sound like
a wonderful person. Thanks for your call today. We'll be
right back.
S7 (29:17):
Great to have you with us today on Faith and
finance live.
S1 (29:19):
I'm Rob West here in our final segment today. Bob
Dole is here. Bob is CIO and CEO at Crossmark
Global Investments, a leader in faith based investing. And the, uh,
we just past the midway point of the year, which
means it's a great time to check in on those
ten annual predictions. How you doing?
S9 (29:37):
So far? So good. Um, usually by of the year
we're getting a few wrong, Rob. And while we haven't
gotten them all right, um, we have a chance of
getting them. All right. So, uh, it's a good thing,
and it's been a topsy turvy year. Uh, we did
predict some volatility and some downward action in the market. And, uh,
you know, we've gotten some of that. And, uh, let's
(29:59):
hope it's onward and upward, as it certainly has been
for the last couple of three months.
S1 (30:04):
Yeah, no doubt about it. Although uh Dow Jones uh,
and the S&P off today Bob. Uh, most of this
I guess driven by the tariffs.
S9 (30:13):
I think so um, over the weekend and again, more today.
The administration and the president in particular, noting that there's
a lot more work to do and there's upside in
the tariffs. And that has in the past and again
today caused the market to get the wobbles a bit.
And that's what we're witnessing. And um, I think just
(30:35):
some profit taking going on. And this was a good
excuse as well because the market's been so strong.
S1 (30:41):
Yeah. Bob the the dollar has been selling off. I
saw a headline today. It said the it's the worst
first half of a year return in more than 50
years for the US dollar. I think it's down about 10%
through June. Should we be concerned about that? What are
the implications?
S9 (30:58):
Well, the implications are several. Um, it's good for stocks
because think about the translation of multinational earnings back to
US dollars. Um, and that's a positive, um, with, with
a weaker dollar. Uh, other than that, it makes, uh,
the ability of people to buy American goods more attractive,
(31:20):
and that helps our economic growth. So in the short term,
there are some positives that I think it's part of
the reason that earnings so well in the first quarter
and might be good again in the second quarter.
S1 (31:32):
Mhm. Yeah. What about just longer term. Is that trend
concerning as it plays out over time.
S9 (31:39):
Well I think one more note. The president would like
a lower dollar for reasons that it would juice economic
the economy in the United States a bit. So his
railing against the fed chair is in part, I think,
to disrupt the dollar. Uh, and he's been successful at that? Yes.
(31:59):
Long term. We don't want a currency. You want a
strong currency. You want your your your country, uh, relative
to the rest of the world to show a good currency.
So it is concerning if it continues.
S7 (32:11):
Yeah.
S1 (32:11):
Very good. Uh, Bob, just in terms of the big
beautiful bill, obviously, uh, July the 4th was quite the
spectacle with that, uh, being signed into law. What are
the implications of that? Just as you look at this
massive bill and think about how this may affect our
economy moving forward.
S9 (32:29):
You have a massive bill. It covers so many areas.
That's why I guess they call it the one big bill.
And they they got it done. Uh, the president just
jawboned and jawboned and probably threatened in words, uh, with
a lot of people to get it done. Look, it's
a big bill. It spends a lot of money. So
it only adds to the deficits, adds to the debt
(32:53):
of the United States. Now, to be self-critical, a bill
like this is better than no bill at all. And
no bill is. You and I have been talking would
result in the biggest tax increase in U.S. history. Uh,
that's not a good alternative. Now, could we have done
something a little better than we were where we were? Absolutely.
But as the saying goes, don't let the perfect get
(33:16):
in the way of the good. And so they passed
the bill, although a lot of Republicans didn't really want
to vote for it, but they, quote, had to and
felt that pressure. This will take in the short term. Rob,
any concerns or most concerns about an economic downturn away
a recession? Um, and that's good news. We don't need
(33:36):
a recession. On the other hand, it's going to bring
up those longer term problems about how much money can
you spend, how high can you raise debt levels, how
can you come up with the interest expense, etc.. But
in the short term, people love it. Worry about the
debt later. As they say.
S1 (33:55):
Yeah. I mean, a lot of people are analyzing the
fiscal trajectory. We are we're on. I've seen some models
that say, you know, it could be sometime in the
years that tax hikes or spending cuts may not be
enough to stave off default at that point, whether that's
an implicit default or otherwise. But just from a technical standpoint. Bob,
(34:15):
what concerns do you have? And, you know, obviously the
Treasury secretary was making the case on the Sunday shows that,
you know, this could really juice the economy and that
could make up for some of the the spending that's
in this bill.
S9 (34:29):
Yeah, it certainly will grow some more than we might
otherwise have grown. But that deficit has gotten so big
that it will result in a whole lot more debt
being piled on. And at some point it will matter. Um,
you know, you are sayings that say long term debt
by the US government really doesn't matter. I don't know
(34:52):
if I owe somebody some money. I got to pay
them back or they're going to come after me. That
eventually will happen to the US. Predicting when that is. Rob,
as you know, is an impossibility.
S1 (35:02):
Yeah. Very good. All right, Bob, what about just the
overall health of the markets right now, as you're looking
at us here at the midway point of the year.
What are you thinking about for the back half?
S9 (35:12):
So, um, I think you know that we've been cautious, um,
and actually, since the first of the year, being cautious
isn't the worst thing in the world. Um, I wish
we were negative and then positive and now cautious again. But, uh, nevertheless,
my problem is valuation. The market selling it at 23,
24 times earnings is expecting a near perfect world. And
(35:35):
you and I both know that's not the case. Uh,
earnings are going to have some good points and some
not so good points. And the market probably struggles with
that a bit. We're not through the tariff problems. We
point out. My expectation is inflation is going to rise
a bit with the tariff issues. So I want to
be cautious. I want to be invested, but I'm going
(35:56):
to be really careful what I own and at what
price I own it.
S1 (36:00):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. All right, Bob,
thanks my friend. We appreciate you stopping by today.
S9 (36:05):
Have a great week.
S1 (36:06):
All right. That's Bob Dahl. Dole. He's chief investment officer
and CEO at Crossmark Global Investments. You can sign up
for his weekly investment commentary. Crossmark Global.com. All right. Here.
We have just a few minutes left. Let's try to
jump back into some phone calls. Pennsylvania is where we're
headed next. Hi, Ellen. Go ahead.
S10 (36:23):
Hi. Um, I, we were thinking of, uh, giving to
our nephew. Um, either now where we're living or or
after we pass away. And so I wanted to tell
my brother about, like, a special needs trust versus an
able account or what the difference is.
S7 (36:40):
Yes. Very good. It's a great, great question.
S1 (36:43):
You know, they can work very closely together. Uh, essentially,
the special needs trust would let you leave money for
your nephew without hurting his government benefits like Medicaid or SSI.
It can hold larger amounts and be used for many expenses. Uh,
it's managed by a trustee. It's often used for an inheritance.
(37:04):
But the key is that qualification for Medicaid or SSI.
Even with those assets that could, you know, go a
long way toward helping him maintain his lifestyle throughout his life.
The Able account is a tax advantaged savings account for
disability related expenses. You can have up to $100,000 in
(37:26):
it without affecting SSI, and it can be spent on
qualified disability expenses. It's better for smaller gifts. Um, you know,
while you're living. So, you know, I think, uh, you know,
both of them can work very closely together, kind of in,
in tandem to one another and serve a great purpose. Um,
(37:48):
you know, I think the key is, uh, the special
needs trust is going to have an attorney set it up,
but it can hold a lot more. And, you know,
I think the the key would be that, you know,
it really comes down to how much you're looking to
put away over time. And, you know, for most people,
if people, if we're talking about putting away certainly more
than $100,000, you're going to need that special needs trust.
(38:11):
The question is, do you also want the able alongside it?
Does that make sense?
S10 (38:15):
Yes. Thank you.
S1 (38:17):
Okay. Yeah I would think about the able account being
for daily living expenses and the special needs trust for
an inheritance or big ticket items. The able account is
better for housing and food and and basic expenses without
hurting the SSI. The special needs trust is for larger
funds and broader expenses. But you have to be careful
(38:38):
with the basic living costs, because if you use it
for basic living, it can affect the SSI. And that's
where the able account, you know, working together can be
really helpful. So what I would do, Ellen, is get
with an attorney who specializes in this type of trust. And,
you know, they can talk through all of the mechanics
(38:59):
of getting it set up and then decide what goes
into the special needs trust. What account? But. Sounds like
you're a wonderful aunt. And I love that you're thinking
in advance about how you could bless this nephew of
yours throughout his life. Thanks for calling today. Let's go
to Nashville. Jennifer, go right ahead.
S11 (39:18):
Hi. Thanks for grabbing my call. Sure. My husband left
a year ago. I had 150,000 in cash. I have
spent $100,000, just like I spent money when we were married.
And I only have $50,000 left. Um, I have stopped
all of that. And I think I've worked through the
(39:39):
shame and embarrassment of all of it all. And I
really don't know where to go from here. I have
a GED, and I had a traumatic brain injury. And
so I don't have the the energy and the, the,
the stuff I used to have to be able to
go out and sell and make a decent amount of money.
So it's it's going to be a different life. Um,
(40:01):
where do I start?
S1 (40:03):
Yeah. Well, Jennifer, first of all, I appreciate your call
and your transparency. And it sounds like you've been through it. And, um,
I'm delighted you're reaching out for some help. And I'd
love to provide that. What I would recommend is that
we get you connected with a certified Christian financial counselor. Uh,
we have a team of counselors that have been trained
to do just that to God's people and help you
(40:25):
create a plan. Look at your assets and liabilities, help
you put a spending plan in place, and see if
we can come up with a budget that allows you
to preserve what's left of your savings, live within your means.
And I realize that's easier said than done, but they
can help you at least understand where you are and
where you go from here. And we'd love to cover
the cost of that person meeting with you several times
(40:47):
to put all that in place. So let's do this.
I'm at the end of the program. You stay on
the line, we'll finish up off the air, and I'll get, uh,
counselor in touch with you. Hang right there. Faith and
Finance Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith fi.
We'll see you tomorrow.
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