November 13, 2025 • 42 mins
Rising costs, denied claims, and surprise bills have left millions of Americans buried in medical debt. But there’s a better, biblical way to approach healthcare—one where Christians have been served for more than forty years. On the next Faith & Finance Live, Lauren Gajdek joins Rob West to tell us all about Christian Healthcare Ministries. Then, it’s your calls. That’s Faith & Finance Live, where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances, weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:08):
Many people say our health care system is broken and
maybe you felt that yourself. Hi, I'm Rob West. Rising costs,
denied claims and surprise bills have left millions of Americans
buried in medical debt. But there's a better biblical way
to approach health care, one that has been serving Christians
for more than 40 years. Lauren Jadick joins us today
(00:30):
to tell us about it. And then it's on to
your calls at 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
This is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your
financial decisions. Lauren Deck serves as senior director of external
affairs for Christian Healthcare Ministries, the nation's longest serving health
(00:52):
cost sharing ministry and a valued underwriter of this program. Lauren,
great to have you back.
S2 (00:58):
Oh, thank you so much, Rob. It's always my pleasure.
S1 (01:01):
Lauren, I understand C.h.m. Is running an open enrollment campaign,
but since enrollment is available year round for you all,
tell us what makes this campaign unique.
S2 (01:11):
Yeah. You've pointed out that C.h.m. Accepts new members throughout
the entire year, which is true. But November 1st through
January 15th is when health insurance open enrollment typically takes
place with your employer or with the government health exchanges.
S1 (01:27):
Yes, that's exactly right. And a great time to shine
a light on C.h.m. Now, you've mentioned that many people
have had a negative experience with traditional insurance. Sure. What
that often looks like and what kinds of challenges they faced.
S2 (01:42):
Yeah, I could go on about that for quite a while.
But essentially, you know, there's a lot of folks out
there who pay premiums into the system for a long,
long time, only to find out that, you know, when
they need help. It's not available because their claims have
been denied. And then a lot of times what we
hear is health care. Relationships are so complicated these days
(02:03):
that you go to a health care provider that you
think is in your network, but it turns out that
they're not. So that's really disheartening for patients and leaves
believers wondering if maybe there's a better way to address that.
S1 (02:15):
No doubt. Now, you've noted that more than 100 million
Americans are burdened with medical debt. That's staggering and clearly
points to a broken system. So, Lauren, how does CHF
help Christians avoid becoming a part of that statistic?
S2 (02:29):
Yeah, that's actually part of our mission, Rob, is, you know,
we share each other's medical expenses instead of paying into
a profit driven system because, you know, CHF is a nonprofit.
It's faith based. We've been around since 1981, and we've
actually shared or satisfied more than $13 billion in medical bills.
(02:49):
So it's not like your experience with insurance where, you know,
like we were just talking about the out of network
experience or anything like that, because C.h.m. Does not have
in-network providers. You can go to any doctor or any
hospital you wish as long as the treatment falls within
the guidelines.
S1 (03:07):
Hmm. Let's break this down really simply for somebody listening
today who says, I don't understand what sets c.h.m. Apart
from traditional insurance. So will you explain that?
S2 (03:18):
Yeah. Of course. So, um, you know, we're not an
insurance company. C.h.m is a biblical community. And again, like
we just said, members have the freedom to choose their
own health care providers. Um, and we're focusing on space
and affordability. It's much more affordable than most insurance plans
you're going to find out there. And stewardship, biblical stewardship
(03:40):
of our members resources. So it's simple and affordable and
obviously built on biblical principles.
S1 (03:48):
Yeah. That's right. And some of our team members even
use C.h.m. Personally and have had a fabulous experience. Lauren,
as folks weigh their options during this open enrollment season.
What encouragement or guidance might you offer them?
S2 (04:01):
Well, I would say keep an open mind. You know,
don't feel like you have to be trapped within a
broken insurance system because there's a proven, Christ centered way
to handle your health care. And I would love for
your listeners to explore our website. There's a great cost
comparison tool on there. They can use plugging your own
numbers and see how c.h.m. Can make healthcare much more
(04:24):
affordable for you. It's the perfect time to do it.
S1 (04:26):
Yeah, no doubt about that. Lauren. We have a lot
in our listening audience who are in the retirement season
of life. Perhaps on Medicare is c.h.m. Helpful alongside Medicare?
S2 (04:37):
Yes. You can actually have that as what we call
a complement to Medicare, where, you know, whatever Medicare does
not pay for, C.h.m can step in and help cover
the rest of those expenses as long as they're eligible,
according to our guidelines.
S1 (04:51):
Incredible. Well, we're grateful for your partnership. It's been long standing,
and I know you've served so many of our listeners very,
very well. Thanks for stopping by today.
S2 (05:00):
Oh, thank you again for having me on, I appreciate it.
S1 (05:03):
Folks, you don't have to settle for a system that's
broken with c.h.m. There's a biblical, community based way to
manage health care costs. Just go to ministries, that's all.
We'll be right back.
S3 (05:33):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (05:57):
Well, I'm so glad you're with us today for faith
and finance live. This is the program that we dedicate
to answering your financial questions and helping you see God
as your ultimate treasure. You know, you and I are stewards.
We talk about that all the time on this program.
That means we're, well, most closely. It's translated from the
New Testament household managers of what God has entrusted to us.
(06:20):
So think about yourself walking in the door of this home.
You're there as the manager. You own nothing, and yet
everything has been entrusted to your care. And that's the
way you should view all of your life, your body,
your time. Yes, your financial resources all belong to God.
So our role is that of steward. Once we give
our lives to Jesus, it's about managing faithfully what he's
(06:43):
entrusted to us. The goal to bless others, to glorify God,
and ultimately to hear one day Well done, good and
faithful servant. That's what we want to help you pursue
here each day on this program. And so if you
have a financial question you can call right now, we'd
love to chat with you. That number is 800 525 7000.
I've got an amazing team today, as always, standing by,
(07:06):
ready to take your calls, serve you well and get
you on the air quickly. Again, that number 800 525 7000.
We would love to chat. Let's dive right in. We're
going to begin in Cleveland today Lisa go right ahead.
S4 (07:19):
Hi there. It's so good to talk to you today, Rob.
S1 (07:21):
And you as.
S4 (07:22):
Well. Oh thank you. I was talking to my friends
and they their daughter um, her house got bought out
by an expanding company, and they. So she she's got
a fair price for it. And now she's looking for
a home. Well, this isn't the best time to be
looking for a home, but they want to be able
to help her with, you know, um, 50,000, 80,000, whatever
(07:44):
she needs to buy a home. Uh, in addition to
what she's getting for the home she sold, but they
don't know whether it's not a gift and they aren't
sure how to loan her that money.
S1 (07:54):
Mhm. Yeah it's a great question. I think the key
is you know what you said right there at the end.
So it would, it would not be a gift. They
would expect repayment. Correct.
S4 (08:04):
Yes. That's correct.
S1 (08:05):
Okay. Yeah. And so you know it can be done wisely.
But it does get messy if you don't set it
up the right way. And I think the overarching idea
that you always have to be mindful of is whenever
you get into a borrower lender relationship, it changes the relationship.
That's why God's Word says, you know, the borrowers, the
(08:25):
lenders slave because there's a change in the relationship. And
when we mix that change in relationship to borrower and
lender in the in the context of a family relationship,
it just can create a really difficult situation because despite
her best intentions, if things didn't work out, uh, you know,
(08:45):
then they would be in a really tough spot and
it could create relational strain. Nobody wants that. And that,
you know, if that were to play out, then their
desire to help could actually end up harming the relationship.
But if they have the ability to do it and
there's clear and open dialogue and there's no unmet expectations,
(09:05):
which means despite the fact that it seems like it's,
you know, perhaps too much, I think documenting everything and
writing is really, really clear. So first question is, is
it a good idea? And I think that comes down
to are they financially stable enough to loan the money
without jeopardizing their financial situation? If it wasn't repaid, would
they be willing to convert it to a gift if
(09:28):
if need be? Um, and everyone then is in agreement
about the the relational risk there? Second, if they decide
to do move forward, put everything in writing and I
would say use a legally binding promissory note that spells
out the loan amount, the interest rate. And by the way,
if they don't charge interest, it's going to be seen
(09:49):
as a gift. That's okay. They would just need to
know that because if it gets over a certain amount,
they're going to have to let the IRS know about
it even though it's not taxable. It would have the
payment schedule. What happens if she misses a payment. And
is there any collateral that just protects everyone. But it
also more importantly it protects the relationship. And then I
would say charge a fair interest rate. If there is
(10:12):
no interest charge then again they're going to have to,
you know, be able to document that as a gift
and then consider securing the loan. They may or may
not want to do that. So I think those are
kind of the issues at the core of this that
they're going to need to think and pray through before, uh,
you know, they, they move forward with it. Um, but
(10:34):
having that real clarity there on the front end is
absolutely essential. But give me your thoughts on all that.
S4 (10:40):
Yes. Um, I was they were talking about that and
they knew that they had a relative that used promissory
notes when they would borrow money or their friends would, um,
I mean, their, their relatives would. So they, they remember
about that, but they weren't sure. Is that something a
form you get somewhere?
S1 (10:56):
Yeah. You could download one online. They could use a
real estate attorney. But yeah, there's promissory notes readily available.
And that would just, you know, more than anything because
they're not going to use it to enforce a foreclosure
or anything like that. But, you know, at the at
its core, it's just going to make sure that everybody
is clear about what are the terms here. So, you know,
(11:17):
a year or 2 or 3 down the road, somebody says, well,
that's not the way I remembered our agreement. Well, let's
get out the promissory note because we all signed off
on it.
S4 (11:27):
Yeah. Right. Right. Well, um, like, their daughter has already
been pre-approved for a loan, but of course, that carries.
I don't know if that carries PMI for a loan for, like, say,
$80,000 or something like that. Um, they, they weren't sure
about that and I sure don't know.
S1 (11:44):
Well, PMI private mortgage insurance is going to come into
play if there's less than 80 or there's more than 80%
loan to value. So if there's not 20% worth of equity,
then private mortgage insurance is going to be required. And
that's that benefits no one other than the the mortgage company. Um,
(12:04):
and it's probably going to be about 1% of the
mortgage value. Um, so if they can avoid that or
if she can avoid that by getting to at least 80%
loan to value, that would be great.
S4 (12:16):
Okay. I believe she'll have that for for her house
is paid off. And what she's getting, she would like
to not believe. They told me she would not like
to buy more than what she's getting from this company
that bought her house, but, you know, should should that
not go enough for a decent house these days? That
she went to the, uh, bank already and got approved
(12:37):
for a loan to cover the difference. So she's ready
in case something would pop up. It was just a
perfect house. But they they were like, well, you know,
maybe we could avoid her having to pay the interest
that the bank would charge. And so they were just
trying to figure out how to do it well and
right and honor the Lord with it.
S1 (12:54):
Yeah. That's good. You know, I think the key there
is that they don't want to put her in a
situation where their loan is allowing her to borrow more than,
than she should, because if the if the bank won't
approve her for enough to buy the home that she finds,
that should be a real red flag. Because often banks
will approve you for more than you realistically should be
(13:16):
taking on in terms of the income that you have.
If they're going beyond that, then that's a I think
that's a concern. If it's simply no, they're not encouraging
or allowing her to borrow more than a bank would
give her. They're just trying to bless her by having
her not pay any interest, because Mom and dad are
going to basically charge 0%, and we're going to deal
(13:37):
with that before the IRS as a gift appropriately. And
so that's just a way to bless her. And they
can do it financially. Well, that's a whole nother situation.
The key is we just don't ever want to get
into a situation where we enable her to live a
lifestyle beyond her means, because that could lead to other
problems down the road. Does that make sense?
S4 (13:58):
That does make sense. Do they? Is a 1% interest
rate enough? I mean, are you legally allowed to do
that so low?
S1 (14:05):
No. Yeah. So legally you can. But it's going to
need to be treated as a gift if it's not
considered something that would be normal and customary. The IRS
has a minimum rate that they publish on their website
at irs.gov. Lisa, thank you for your call today. You
sound like a great friend. We'll be right back. Great
(14:32):
to have you with us today on Faith and Finance live.
I'm Rob West, where the calls are coming in. We
do have a just a couple of lines open. So
if you have a financial question today a call right
now 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. Right. Back
to the phone. Chicago, Illinois. Let's talk to Joel. Go
ahead sir.
S5 (14:51):
Hello. How are you doing?
S1 (14:53):
Doing great.
S5 (14:54):
My question is, how do you. My question is, how
long do you have to, uh, let a an insurance
policy mature until you can turn it to turn it, uh,
convert it into a mutual fund?
S1 (15:10):
Yes, sir. Uh, it's a good question. And so you have, uh,
essentially you can't, quote, convert a life insurance policy into
a mutual fund. What you can do is surrender the policy,
meaning there's no more death benefit and then take the
cash value, assuming it's a a whole life policy that
(15:32):
was accumulating cash value. So a part of the premium
every month was going to the mortality expense for the
death benefit, and a part was going to a savings
account that will build up cash value. So when you
surrender the policy, it allows you to take the cash
value out that's been accumulating, if there is any. And
then you could turn around and invest that in mutual funds.
(15:55):
But there is no, you know, direct conversion mechanism. Now,
life insurance doesn't work like a CD or annuity with
a term. It usually you can usually access the cash
whenever you want after enough uh, value has accumulated. But
there can be surrender charges in the first 5 to
(16:16):
10 years. So a lot of that's going to depend
on how long you've had it. But let me stop there.
Does that make sense, Joel.
S5 (16:22):
Yes, that makes great sense.
S1 (16:24):
Okay, great. Yeah. So there's no waiting period. Uh, the
key is, did you get past the surrender period? And
is there cash value? And are you comfortable collapsing the policy,
essentially giving up the death benefit? And if so, then
you could take the money out. Now, if the goal
is to use it for grandkids, then you've got to decide, okay,
(16:45):
what do I want to invest it in? Do I
want to put it in a 529 college savings plan?
Do I want to put it in just some, you know,
some mutual funds in my name, uh, and let it grow.
And then you can choose when to give it to
them down the road, but at least it'd be working
for you in the meantime. You know, I think all
of those options are on the table once you surrender
(17:06):
the policy and get the cash value out.
S5 (17:09):
Sounds like a wonder to me. And a blessing from God. Right?
S1 (17:13):
All right, Joel, you sound like a great grandfather, and
I appreciate your call today, sir. Call anytime. Uh, Michigan's
where we're headed next. Carol. Go ahead.
S6 (17:22):
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Um, I called
a while ago, and I had asked for help with, um, finances,
and I was sent to a Kingdom advisor, and I
told her what I was doing with my budget and everything,
and she said that I didn't need an advisor, that
maybe I could possibly become one. And because I'm 59
years old, I'm disabled. Um, I have problems with my arms,
(17:45):
so I can't use a computer real well. It'll just
make me worse. I just was wondering if it's possible
to even do something like that. Like, very part time.
And what would be the best? Kind of course, to
take for someone that's got disabilities like that?
S1 (17:58):
Yeah, yeah. Very good. Well, I'm sorry to hear about
your disabilities, and but I do appreciate your desire to
help people, especially in this area of financial stewardship. Uh,
you know, um, really what you're describing is what we
would call a financial coach or a financial counselor, and
this is a really fulfilling ministry opportunity. And it's, you know,
(18:21):
really where you can, uh, help people with real world
insight and financial guidance around things like debt repayment, helping them,
you know, set goals, develop a spending plan, you know,
those kinds of things. And we would recommend a training
course and ultimately a certification called the Certified Christian Financial Counselor. Uh,
(18:44):
our friend and ministry partner, doctor Art Rayner, created this.
And it's specifically for people like you that want to be,
you know, either as a ministry volunteer or as a business,
help people with what we would call financial counseling or
financial coaching. So it's not, you know, what a sikayet
(19:04):
would do, which is more in the financial planning and
wealth management. It's really all the things that come before
that around spending plans and and debt repayment. The website
to check out is Christian Financial Health Christian Financial Health.
And you can learn about the Certified Christian Financial counselor.
Now these days, you know, often the way people do
(19:27):
this kind of thing is through the computer where, you know,
you might set up a zoom meeting or a Google
Meet meeting, you'd see somebody face to face, even though
you're not physically in the same location, and you would
help them kind of talk through the mechanics of setting
up their spending plan and developing a plan to get
out of debt and give generously. You know, you could
(19:49):
be that could be as computer dependent as you wanted
it to be. So if you have limited computer use,
then you would just want to help them, you know,
by talking them through all of these things. And that
would be very possible. But the beginning point is really,
I think to get the education and the training, and
that's where I think the Certified Christian Financial Counselor curriculum
(20:11):
would be a real blessing to you. Does that sound
like what you're looking for, Carol?
S6 (20:16):
It does. I just was kind of curious. Um, it
sounds really good. As far as the computer goes. I'm just.
I guess I'm wondering about, like, the course. Would that
involve a lot of computer work? And also, would I
be able to make a little bit of money since
I do need to. Since I'm on disability.
S1 (20:30):
Yeah, yeah. You know, most of the people that earn
certified Christian financial counselor, you know, many of them do
it as a volunteer in their church. But I would
say the majority of them this is they're creating a
small business out of it, and they're essentially charging by
the session or for their time to help people in
this regard. Now, the question is, you know, just given
(20:53):
the limitations, you're essentially building a small business. And so
that means marketing and finding, you know, the people that
need your services. And, you know, a lot of that
is going to be dependent upon how, you know, your
ability to go out and make your services known. Perhaps
the the folks at the Christian Financial Health, um, you know,
(21:15):
could help with that, but that would be an important
conversation to have in terms of how computer intensive it is.
I know you watch the courses on the computer, but
I don't know that it actually requires a lot of
computer inputting, a lot of typing, that kind of thing.
But you certainly would have to navigate to the course
and view it on your computer. So, um, if you're
(21:37):
able to, I would head to Christian Financial Health.com and
then just start, uh, kind of working through the requirements
and see if it might be a good fit for you,
but we'd certainly give it our endorsement. Thanks for your call.
Lord bless you. We'll be right back. Great to have
(22:00):
you with us today on Faith in finance. Live. I'm
Rob West. We do have a few lines open today.
So if you have a question go ahead and call
right now the number is 800 525 7000. Again that
number is 800 525 7000. We would love to hear
from you today and help you think about managing money
God's way according to biblical wisdom. Hey, uh, we do
(22:22):
want to remind you that, uh, this is the time
of year for Samaritan's Purse, Operation Christmas child. That's right.
It's here. It's hard to believe, but Christmas is just
around the corner. But what an opportunity for you and
your family to share the love and hope of Jesus
with a child around the world. It's really simple. We
(22:43):
do it every year in our house. You pack a
shoebox or a few of them with school supplies and
a toy and most importantly, your prayers. And then you
head to Moody Radio, click click on the Operation Christmas
Child banner and you'll find all the instructions and details there.
And it just is such a practical way to live
out generosity. Something we talk about on this program regularly.
(23:07):
And and this is the best part point kids somewhere
in the world to the gospel. A simple shoebox can
carry the greatest gift of all the hope of Jesus
this Christmas season. So if you would consider packing a shoebox,
we'd certainly be grateful. Uh, this, uh, national, uh, shoebox
campaign runs through the 17th of November. And, uh, so
(23:29):
we want you to go ahead and not delay. It's
going to come and go, and you're going to be like, wow,
I missed it. No, don't miss it. Uh, all the
details available. Moody radio.org. Just click on Operation Christmas Child.
You'll see the banner there and you'll get all the details.
Thanks in advance. All right, back to the phones. Michigan
is where we're headed next. Uh, let's talk to Alvin.
Go ahead.
S5 (23:50):
Hey, um, Rob, um, I think his name is Rob.
S1 (23:55):
You got it? Yes, sir.
S5 (23:57):
Yeah, yeah. Who is the best place that you can
invest your money? Like. Like places like Schwab or something
like that?
S1 (24:06):
Yes. Yeah. You know, I would say that, uh, among
the what we call the discount brokerage houses, where you're
not going to spend an arm and a leg and they,
you know, give you a wide array of investment choices,
you know, for a do it yourself or somebody, especially
somebody who's just getting started, I would say either Schwab,
Charles Schwab or Fidelity would be two great options. Now,
(24:28):
if you're looking for what we call a robo advisor,
which is just a fancy way of saying, you know,
it's a low cost way to invest for somebody who's
just starting out. Uh, you know, I would head to, uh,
the Schwab Intelligent Portfolios. So at Charles Schwab, you can
open an account and basically pick your own investments. But
(24:50):
if you want them to do it for you and,
you know, as you add money, automatically reinvest it and
make sure it's properly diversified. Well, that's the Schwab Intelligent Portfolios.
It's a specific product. At Charles Schwab. Another option for
robo advisor would be a company called Betterment Better. Mint.com. Uh,
(25:11):
either of those would be fine. But I think, you know,
those are some really solid companies that have a good reputation.
S5 (25:19):
Mhm. My problem is I'm not a I'm not a
new new. I've been with the company for quite some
time but it, it seemed like they take money from
you then they, it never, it never increases or nothing.
They just you know, it, it just don't it ain't
doing nothing. So I'm, you know, seem like they, you know,
(25:40):
still it going, it should be going up all at
most a little bit all the time shouldn't it.
S1 (25:47):
Well it's all going to come down to what are
the investments that you selected inside the account. Do you
have a do you have a sense of the kinds
of investments you're in?
S5 (25:57):
Uh, all I know, I'm in probably at least four,
four different, uh, whatever you call it. Four different, uh, things,
you know, four different, um, four. It spread it out.
S1 (26:11):
Okay. Got it. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, Schwab,
if that's where you're at at Charles Schwab, I mean,
they're a very low cost provider. So, you know, they're
about the lowest in the industry. And a lot of
their ETFs are called MTF, no transaction fee. And some
of them have very low expense ratios. So, you know,
there's no reason, you know, that the the fees should
(26:34):
be a drag on it. It really is going to
come down to what are the investments you have in
your portfolio. And with the market doing as well as
it's done, you know, over the last couple of decades,
and certainly in particular the last couple of years, there's
no reason why that account shouldn't be growing. And so
that tells me you need somebody to look it over
and figure out why is it that your portfolio is
(26:56):
underperforming the market? Um, let me ask you, Alvin, how
much do you have roughly in that Schwab account?
S5 (27:04):
You know, it's not Schwab.
S1 (27:07):
Oh. I'm sorry. Where is it?
S5 (27:08):
Where is it? No. Okay. It's it's in it's it's
in an account called, uh, Prime America. Prime Primerica Insurance Company.
S1 (27:17):
Got it. Yeah, I'm familiar with it. Yeah. What? Where
and how much do you have at Primerica?
S5 (27:23):
You know, last time, I think last time, it was, uh,
30 some thousand between probably 37 and 40. If it's
having dropped, you know. Yeah, but it's been there for
it's been it's been, it's been come down from there.
It was up in the 40s but it's come down
(27:44):
to 30 something. Yeah. And it and it never goes up.
S1 (27:48):
Yeah. Yeah. I would say that Primerica would be considered
relatively expensive compared with many other investment advisor or brokerage offerings. Uh,
you know, depending on the account size. I mean, their,
their fees tend to be, uh, higher than the industry,
that's for sure. And, you know, if the higher fees
(28:09):
combined with, uh, lackluster investments, you know, that that's a
recipe for the kind of thing you're describing here. So
I think, you know, what you may want to look
at is moving to something that's more of a low
cost provider. And maybe, you know, you might want to
look to something that, you know, that is more like
(28:30):
the the robo advisors that I just described, because that
way you're not trying to pick the winners and losers.
You're just capturing the broad moves of the market, which again,
has done very well, and you're not going to have
a lot of fees putting a drag on the portfolio.
And I would just say that, you know, Primerica would
(28:51):
be on the more expensive side. So I think you're
on to something there.
S5 (28:55):
I believe that, I swear I believe you. So you
were saying Schwab and who else was it?
S1 (29:00):
Uh, betterment would be the other one. But the first
one is Schwab, Intelligent Portfolios.
S5 (29:07):
Schwab and so forth. So I can just probably call Schwab.
S1 (29:11):
You can or just go online and type that into
your search engine and it'll come right up. But, Alvin,
I think you're on the right track. Listen, I'm going
to send you a book. It's called the Sound Mind
Investing Handbook, and I think it might acquaint you with,
you know, a few of these ideas around investing just
so you're a little more knowledgeable as you go into
whatever you think is next. Uh, I think this will
(29:32):
be a nice resource. Just to give you a little
bit bigger base of knowledge in the investing world, because
it can be complicated. There's a lot of terms and,
you know, a lot of things that you're expected to understand. And,
you know, when you don't know exactly what you're looking at,
it can make it really challenging. So hopefully this will help.
It's our gift to you, Alvin. So stay on the line.
We'll send you the Sound Mind Investing Handbook and Lord
(29:54):
bless you, sir. Uh, let's go to Texas. Hi, Rebecca.
Go ahead.
S7 (29:58):
Hi. Um, I'm calling for a friend of mine, um,
who has no income coming in. They're searching for work,
and they have $15,100 in And credit card debt from
three credit cards ones, at 29%, has 6400, one is
(30:20):
at 0% until April, and it has 7200, and another
one is 0% until February, and that has $1,500 on it.
They need $2,000 in dental care and they have 7500
in cash. They're trying to figure out what's the best way.
S1 (30:42):
Yeah that's tough. All right. This is a hard spot.
High interest debt, no income and urgent dental work. We'll
talk about it right after the break. Stay there. Rebecca,
we'll be right back. Well, it's a big day here
at Faith fi. That's right. Our new devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure,
(31:03):
goes to the printer tomorrow. So you know what that means.
Like the teams here. Like, it's all. There's copies printed
out and all over the office, and they're like, going
through every line and every word. And we've got the
reviewers and, you know, our writers and Taylor, who's uh,
one of our lead writers, is going through it, and Afton,
(31:25):
who leads our content here. And it's a really exciting time.
But I'll tell you, we are so thrilled about what
this resource is going to mean for you, because it
really is that resource we've always wanted that distills really
the counsel of Scripture down into a 21 day devotional
that I think is going to expose you to really
(31:46):
the big ideas for faithful stewardship in Scripture. I mean,
it starts with day one, our ultimate treasure, and then
God owns it all. God is our provider. Money is
a tool. Choosing contentment. Spending reflects our values. Work as worship.
You know, living with margin, the paradox of planning and
all the way through. And it'll be out at the
(32:06):
end of January and we literally can't wait for you
to get your hands on it. So these are the
kinds of resources we produce here at Faith Fi. And
it's all about helping you, God's people, manage God's money
God's way. Because in Scripture, we see God's heart as
it relates to the role of money. What is money
and how should we interact with it? And how should
(32:27):
we be careful that it doesn't compete with our affections?
And how do we not get caught up in the
things of this world, but use it as something to
bless others and to promote human flourishing, and to enjoy
and to provide and all the things that God intended.
We want to help you pursue that. And we think this, uh,
this new devotional is going to do just that. It'll
(32:48):
be out in the end of January. And one of
the ways that you can ensure that you get your
copy is when you support Faith five between now and
the end of December, uh, every gift of any amount
is going to ensure this beautiful hardback devotional comes to
your door. So just head to faith. Com and by
the way, every gift will be doubled, which is amazing
(33:09):
because we have some friends that love the ministry. That said,
up to $175,000 until December 31st, we're going to match
and literally double every gift. So if you would give
generously right now, at this point in the season, as
we head toward the end of the year, we would
be incredibly grateful and it would be our honor to
send you this new devotional that heads to the printer
(33:30):
literally tomorrow. We can't wait. All right, let's head back
to the phones. Uh, you know, we were talking to
Rebecca in Texas before the break, and, uh, Rebecca, I
understand your your friend has three credit cards, 15,000 with
a high interest rate, and then a couple of introductory
rate cards. They only have 7000 in cash. They need
some some dental work done. But tell me about the
(33:51):
income situation. You said there's no income whatsoever. Is there
an issue there with their ability to work or are
they just in between jobs? What's going on with that?
S7 (34:02):
In between jobs they were laid off, um, their unemployment
ran through. Um, and so they, they're kind of living
off of another friend, but he has, uh, dental work
that it's emergent. Yeah. So, yeah, ask me what he
(34:23):
should do. And I really never been in that position.
S1 (34:26):
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, the most important thing,
and this goes without saying, is they need income. So
without income, no debt strategy will work. Not not consolidation,
not snowballing, not balance transfers. None of it works without
any income. And so, you know, every part of the
solution hinges on restoring some kind of income, even part
(34:47):
time or temporary work. Now God is our provider, not
the US government, not your employer. So we trust the Lord.
We we lay the bills out on the table, including
those dental bills, and say, God, you know we need
your provision here. We trust you completely. But part of
that means we work with our hands and we work hard.
And the good news is, and I realize that doesn't
(35:08):
matter unless it applies to you. But we're in a
basically an economy right now that has a full labor force.
I mean, you know, for the most part, people who
want to work can find a job. It's not like
we're in a recession. It's not like unemployment is way up.
You know, there are jobs available. It may not be
the exact job they're looking for, but I think the
(35:29):
key is right now that they get out there, despite
the fact that they have great friends who are willing
to help. Their full time job today is finding that
next job, whether it's part time or temporary, whatever it is. Because,
you know, without that income, they're not going to be
able to keep up. If the the dental work is
an emergency, well, then they've got to do it. And
(35:51):
I think, you know, I would be really honest with
the medical provider. And normally they're willing to work with you.
I mean they may need to use that, uh, you know,
part of that 7000 in cash. I wouldn't put it
on the credit card. Um, but, you know, this is
an emergency, and they need to get it done. But
I think, you know, maybe getting on a payment plan
where you slowly, you know, pull the money from the
(36:13):
7000 in cash until employment is restored. Uh, that would
probably be the way to go. But in terms of
looking at some solution like consolidation or debt management, you know,
for the credit, I wouldn't touch any of that until
they secure a job because none of that is going
to work and it's actually going to create more problems.
(36:34):
If you try to start one of those programs and
you can't see it through because you just have to
have income in order to do it.
S7 (36:41):
Correct I agree.
S1 (36:43):
Yeah.
S7 (36:43):
Yeah.
S1 (36:44):
So so I would just encourage them be praying for
them that listen, your primary job right now is to
go out and find a job that is absolutely essential. Uh,
I think I cut you off there. What were you
going to say?
S7 (36:56):
Uh, they have been trying to secure a job. And
the dentist, um, The two dentists that he has consulted
with have asked for the money up front.
S1 (37:05):
Yeah, okay.
S7 (37:07):
Well, that makes it hard.
S1 (37:09):
Yeah.
S7 (37:09):
They have a, like, a credit card for dental care,
but then we're, you know.
S1 (37:16):
Yeah, well, I would talk to the dentist and maybe
they need to shop around about a cash discount, you know,
because a lot of times, you know, the fees are
based on them getting, you know, a certain amount from insurance.
And if they know this person not only is paying cash,
but in a hardship situation, you know, perhaps they could
(37:36):
find a discounted rate. I would also check with your
local church. You know, I mean their church, their benevolence
department may be the solution here, at least for the
medical side of it. And then, you know, we can
solve for the the money to keep the food on
the table and the lights on and gas in the
car and a roof over their head. Those are the
kind of the big four priorities moving forward. But I
(37:58):
would say shop around and let's see if they can't
find somebody who would give them a cash discount and
perhaps work with them on a monthly payment situation. So.
Lord bless you, Rebecca. Thanks for journeying alongside them. I
know this is difficult. We'll ask our faith and finance community.
Be praying for your friends. Uh, let's go to Chicago. Hi, Cynthia.
Go ahead.
S8 (38:18):
Hi, how are you? And God bless you. Thank you
so much for taking my call. Of course, I am
calling because I have, um, some debt with credit card
and a small loans, probably totaling about 30,000 right now. Um,
I have a mortgage loan that's completely under my name alone. Um,
and me and my husband and I were wondering what
(38:38):
would be our best option, whether it's taking a line
of equity against our loan or refinancing, possibly with both
of our names, um, and getting money back from that
refinance to do some work on our debt as well
as some renovations with our home.
S1 (38:54):
Yeah. So I wouldn't want you to touch that first
mortgage because, I mean, that's a great interest rate down
under 4%. You're not going to get anywhere close to
that today. Not to mention the fact that if you've
had it for some time, you know that, uh, you know,
you're paying, uh, in the early days of a mortgage,
you're paying more toward interest, less toward principal. So the
(39:16):
longer you have it, the more that flips to where
you're paying more toward principal, less toward interest. So you
don't want to reset that for that reason. And you
certainly don't want to double that interest rate, which is
basically what would happen if you refinanced. Um, I'm not
a big fan of taking out, uh, home, a home
loan to pay off credit card debt because that that
(39:37):
credit card debt is unsecured, meaning it's not collateralized by
anything other than, you know, just you personally. The moment
you refinance it and put it on your home. Number one,
you've just, you know, tied your home to your ability
to repay it, which is not the case currently. And
number two, even though the interest rate comes down. Oftentimes
we pay it back over a much longer period of time.
(40:00):
And so you might not save as much interest as
you expect. So I'd leave the first mortgage where it is.
I would probably look at a debt management program for
that 30,000, which is simply where you leave. You leave
the credit cards right where they are. Whatever lenders you have,
if you're with Chase, you stay with Chase. If you're
at Citi, you stay with city. But through the debt
management program with our friends at Christian Credit Counselors, they
(40:24):
would help you get those interest rates down often to
between 0 and 10%, which is probably, you know, a
third of what it is today or less. And, you know,
then every payment a lot more is going to principal.
And and you don't take out a new loan or
anything like that. Now, if you're wanting to do some
renovations on the house and you have the money to
(40:46):
do it, meaning you, you know, can pay it back
in a reasonable period of time, then I think that
is the reason why you'd want to take out a
home equity line of credit. The reason I wouldn't take
a home equity loan is you're going to lock it
in at about an 8% rate. And I don't want
you to lock in at 8%. If you get a
home equity line of credit, you can probably find one
(41:07):
right now if you have good credit at seven and
a half. But it's going to be variable, which means
as the rate comes down over the next couple of years,
your rate will follow. And so you'll end up saving
money on interest over time. And so but I would
I would leave that home equity line of credit exclusively
for those home renovations. I wouldn't try to roll the
credit cards in.
S9 (41:28):
Got it. Perfect. Thank you so much. Okay.
S1 (41:31):
All right. You're welcome. Hey, shop around because there's some
lenders out there right now that are offering no fee
home equity lines of credit. I know Bank of America
was one of them, uh, a while back. I don't
know if they still are, but if you do your homework,
you can find one that's close to prime plus zero.
You know, you might find them Prime plus 1% or
prime plus two. Look for something. prime plus zero, prime
(41:54):
plus one half, and then also look for one where
there's no fees like they'll pay the bank will pay
for the appraisal, and there's no origination costs and no
application fee. That's what you're going to want to look for.
And if you do your homework online, you could probably
find one that's offering some of those incentives. Cynthia, thanks
for your call today. All the best to you and
your husband. And I'm so sorry we didn't get to
(42:16):
you today. If you want to stay on the line,
our team, we'll see if we can get you scheduled
to be first up on the program tomorrow. Thanks for
your call today, folks. That's going to do it for
us again. Operation Christmas Child is in full effect. Head
to Moody Radio to learn more. And also if you
want to support our work here at Faith Fi here
at the end of the year, it's a critical time
for us to hear from you. Every gift doubled and
(42:37):
every gift ensures you'll get our new devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure,
in January. Just go to give Josh, Taylor and Lisa
the amazing team today. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye bye.
Many people say our health care system is broken and
maybe you felt that yourself. Hi, I'm Rob West. Rising costs,
denied claims and surprise bills have left millions of Americans
buried in medical debt. But there's a better biblical way
to approach health care, one that has been serving Christians
for more than 40 years. Lauren Jadick joins us today
(00:30):
to tell us about it. And then it's on to
your calls at 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
This is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your
financial decisions. Lauren Deck serves as senior director of external
affairs for Christian Healthcare Ministries, the nation's longest serving health
(00:52):
cost sharing ministry and a valued underwriter of this program. Lauren,
great to have you back.
S2 (00:58):
Oh, thank you so much, Rob. It's always my pleasure.
S1 (01:01):
Lauren, I understand C.h.m. Is running an open enrollment campaign,
but since enrollment is available year round for you all,
tell us what makes this campaign unique.
S2 (01:11):
Yeah. You've pointed out that C.h.m. Accepts new members throughout
the entire year, which is true. But November 1st through
January 15th is when health insurance open enrollment typically takes
place with your employer or with the government health exchanges.
S1 (01:27):
Yes, that's exactly right. And a great time to shine
a light on C.h.m. Now, you've mentioned that many people
have had a negative experience with traditional insurance. Sure. What
that often looks like and what kinds of challenges they faced.
S2 (01:42):
Yeah, I could go on about that for quite a while.
But essentially, you know, there's a lot of folks out
there who pay premiums into the system for a long,
long time, only to find out that, you know, when
they need help. It's not available because their claims have
been denied. And then a lot of times what we
hear is health care. Relationships are so complicated these days
(02:03):
that you go to a health care provider that you
think is in your network, but it turns out that
they're not. So that's really disheartening for patients and leaves
believers wondering if maybe there's a better way to address that.
S1 (02:15):
No doubt. Now, you've noted that more than 100 million
Americans are burdened with medical debt. That's staggering and clearly
points to a broken system. So, Lauren, how does CHF
help Christians avoid becoming a part of that statistic?
S2 (02:29):
Yeah, that's actually part of our mission, Rob, is, you know,
we share each other's medical expenses instead of paying into
a profit driven system because, you know, CHF is a nonprofit.
It's faith based. We've been around since 1981, and we've
actually shared or satisfied more than $13 billion in medical bills.
(02:49):
So it's not like your experience with insurance where, you know,
like we were just talking about the out of network
experience or anything like that, because C.h.m. Does not have
in-network providers. You can go to any doctor or any
hospital you wish as long as the treatment falls within
the guidelines.
S1 (03:07):
Hmm. Let's break this down really simply for somebody listening
today who says, I don't understand what sets c.h.m. Apart
from traditional insurance. So will you explain that?
S2 (03:18):
Yeah. Of course. So, um, you know, we're not an
insurance company. C.h.m is a biblical community. And again, like
we just said, members have the freedom to choose their
own health care providers. Um, and we're focusing on space
and affordability. It's much more affordable than most insurance plans
you're going to find out there. And stewardship, biblical stewardship
(03:40):
of our members resources. So it's simple and affordable and
obviously built on biblical principles.
S1 (03:48):
Yeah. That's right. And some of our team members even
use C.h.m. Personally and have had a fabulous experience. Lauren,
as folks weigh their options during this open enrollment season.
What encouragement or guidance might you offer them?
S2 (04:01):
Well, I would say keep an open mind. You know,
don't feel like you have to be trapped within a
broken insurance system because there's a proven, Christ centered way
to handle your health care. And I would love for
your listeners to explore our website. There's a great cost
comparison tool on there. They can use plugging your own
numbers and see how c.h.m. Can make healthcare much more
(04:24):
affordable for you. It's the perfect time to do it.
S1 (04:26):
Yeah, no doubt about that. Lauren. We have a lot
in our listening audience who are in the retirement season
of life. Perhaps on Medicare is c.h.m. Helpful alongside Medicare?
S2 (04:37):
Yes. You can actually have that as what we call
a complement to Medicare, where, you know, whatever Medicare does
not pay for, C.h.m can step in and help cover
the rest of those expenses as long as they're eligible,
according to our guidelines.
S1 (04:51):
Incredible. Well, we're grateful for your partnership. It's been long standing,
and I know you've served so many of our listeners very,
very well. Thanks for stopping by today.
S2 (05:00):
Oh, thank you again for having me on, I appreciate it.
S1 (05:03):
Folks, you don't have to settle for a system that's
broken with c.h.m. There's a biblical, community based way to
manage health care costs. Just go to ministries, that's all.
We'll be right back.
S3 (05:33):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (05:57):
Well, I'm so glad you're with us today for faith
and finance live. This is the program that we dedicate
to answering your financial questions and helping you see God
as your ultimate treasure. You know, you and I are stewards.
We talk about that all the time on this program.
That means we're, well, most closely. It's translated from the
New Testament household managers of what God has entrusted to us.
(06:20):
So think about yourself walking in the door of this home.
You're there as the manager. You own nothing, and yet
everything has been entrusted to your care. And that's the
way you should view all of your life, your body,
your time. Yes, your financial resources all belong to God.
So our role is that of steward. Once we give
our lives to Jesus, it's about managing faithfully what he's
(06:43):
entrusted to us. The goal to bless others, to glorify God,
and ultimately to hear one day Well done, good and
faithful servant. That's what we want to help you pursue
here each day on this program. And so if you
have a financial question you can call right now, we'd
love to chat with you. That number is 800 525 7000.
I've got an amazing team today, as always, standing by,
(07:06):
ready to take your calls, serve you well and get
you on the air quickly. Again, that number 800 525 7000.
We would love to chat. Let's dive right in. We're
going to begin in Cleveland today Lisa go right ahead.
S4 (07:19):
Hi there. It's so good to talk to you today, Rob.
S1 (07:21):
And you as.
S4 (07:22):
Well. Oh thank you. I was talking to my friends
and they their daughter um, her house got bought out
by an expanding company, and they. So she she's got
a fair price for it. And now she's looking for
a home. Well, this isn't the best time to be
looking for a home, but they want to be able
to help her with, you know, um, 50,000, 80,000, whatever
(07:44):
she needs to buy a home. Uh, in addition to
what she's getting for the home she sold, but they
don't know whether it's not a gift and they aren't
sure how to loan her that money.
S1 (07:54):
Mhm. Yeah it's a great question. I think the key
is you know what you said right there at the end.
So it would, it would not be a gift. They
would expect repayment. Correct.
S4 (08:04):
Yes. That's correct.
S1 (08:05):
Okay. Yeah. And so you know it can be done wisely.
But it does get messy if you don't set it
up the right way. And I think the overarching idea
that you always have to be mindful of is whenever
you get into a borrower lender relationship, it changes the relationship.
That's why God's Word says, you know, the borrowers, the
(08:25):
lenders slave because there's a change in the relationship. And
when we mix that change in relationship to borrower and
lender in the in the context of a family relationship,
it just can create a really difficult situation because despite
her best intentions, if things didn't work out, uh, you know,
(08:45):
then they would be in a really tough spot and
it could create relational strain. Nobody wants that. And that,
you know, if that were to play out, then their
desire to help could actually end up harming the relationship.
But if they have the ability to do it and
there's clear and open dialogue and there's no unmet expectations,
(09:05):
which means despite the fact that it seems like it's,
you know, perhaps too much, I think documenting everything and
writing is really, really clear. So first question is, is
it a good idea? And I think that comes down
to are they financially stable enough to loan the money
without jeopardizing their financial situation? If it wasn't repaid, would
they be willing to convert it to a gift if
(09:28):
if need be? Um, and everyone then is in agreement
about the the relational risk there? Second, if they decide
to do move forward, put everything in writing and I
would say use a legally binding promissory note that spells
out the loan amount, the interest rate. And by the way,
if they don't charge interest, it's going to be seen
(09:49):
as a gift. That's okay. They would just need to
know that because if it gets over a certain amount,
they're going to have to let the IRS know about
it even though it's not taxable. It would have the
payment schedule. What happens if she misses a payment. And
is there any collateral that just protects everyone. But it
also more importantly it protects the relationship. And then I
would say charge a fair interest rate. If there is
(10:12):
no interest charge then again they're going to have to,
you know, be able to document that as a gift
and then consider securing the loan. They may or may
not want to do that. So I think those are
kind of the issues at the core of this that
they're going to need to think and pray through before, uh,
you know, they, they move forward with it. Um, but
(10:34):
having that real clarity there on the front end is
absolutely essential. But give me your thoughts on all that.
S4 (10:40):
Yes. Um, I was they were talking about that and
they knew that they had a relative that used promissory
notes when they would borrow money or their friends would, um,
I mean, their, their relatives would. So they, they remember
about that, but they weren't sure. Is that something a
form you get somewhere?
S1 (10:56):
Yeah. You could download one online. They could use a
real estate attorney. But yeah, there's promissory notes readily available.
And that would just, you know, more than anything because
they're not going to use it to enforce a foreclosure
or anything like that. But, you know, at the at
its core, it's just going to make sure that everybody
is clear about what are the terms here. So, you know,
(11:17):
a year or 2 or 3 down the road, somebody says, well,
that's not the way I remembered our agreement. Well, let's
get out the promissory note because we all signed off
on it.
S4 (11:27):
Yeah. Right. Right. Well, um, like, their daughter has already
been pre-approved for a loan, but of course, that carries.
I don't know if that carries PMI for a loan for, like, say,
$80,000 or something like that. Um, they, they weren't sure
about that and I sure don't know.
S1 (11:44):
Well, PMI private mortgage insurance is going to come into
play if there's less than 80 or there's more than 80%
loan to value. So if there's not 20% worth of equity,
then private mortgage insurance is going to be required. And
that's that benefits no one other than the the mortgage company. Um,
(12:04):
and it's probably going to be about 1% of the
mortgage value. Um, so if they can avoid that or
if she can avoid that by getting to at least 80%
loan to value, that would be great.
S4 (12:16):
Okay. I believe she'll have that for for her house
is paid off. And what she's getting, she would like
to not believe. They told me she would not like
to buy more than what she's getting from this company
that bought her house, but, you know, should should that
not go enough for a decent house these days? That
she went to the, uh, bank already and got approved
(12:37):
for a loan to cover the difference. So she's ready
in case something would pop up. It was just a
perfect house. But they they were like, well, you know,
maybe we could avoid her having to pay the interest
that the bank would charge. And so they were just
trying to figure out how to do it well and
right and honor the Lord with it.
S1 (12:54):
Yeah. That's good. You know, I think the key there
is that they don't want to put her in a
situation where their loan is allowing her to borrow more than,
than she should, because if the if the bank won't
approve her for enough to buy the home that she finds,
that should be a real red flag. Because often banks
will approve you for more than you realistically should be
(13:16):
taking on in terms of the income that you have.
If they're going beyond that, then that's a I think
that's a concern. If it's simply no, they're not encouraging
or allowing her to borrow more than a bank would
give her. They're just trying to bless her by having
her not pay any interest, because Mom and dad are
going to basically charge 0%, and we're going to deal
(13:37):
with that before the IRS as a gift appropriately. And
so that's just a way to bless her. And they
can do it financially. Well, that's a whole nother situation.
The key is we just don't ever want to get
into a situation where we enable her to live a
lifestyle beyond her means, because that could lead to other
problems down the road. Does that make sense?
S4 (13:58):
That does make sense. Do they? Is a 1% interest
rate enough? I mean, are you legally allowed to do
that so low?
S1 (14:05):
No. Yeah. So legally you can. But it's going to
need to be treated as a gift if it's not
considered something that would be normal and customary. The IRS
has a minimum rate that they publish on their website
at irs.gov. Lisa, thank you for your call today. You
sound like a great friend. We'll be right back. Great
(14:32):
to have you with us today on Faith and Finance live.
I'm Rob West, where the calls are coming in. We
do have a just a couple of lines open. So
if you have a financial question today a call right
now 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. Right. Back
to the phone. Chicago, Illinois. Let's talk to Joel. Go
ahead sir.
S5 (14:51):
Hello. How are you doing?
S1 (14:53):
Doing great.
S5 (14:54):
My question is, how do you. My question is, how
long do you have to, uh, let a an insurance
policy mature until you can turn it to turn it, uh,
convert it into a mutual fund?
S1 (15:10):
Yes, sir. Uh, it's a good question. And so you have, uh,
essentially you can't, quote, convert a life insurance policy into
a mutual fund. What you can do is surrender the policy,
meaning there's no more death benefit and then take the
cash value, assuming it's a a whole life policy that
(15:32):
was accumulating cash value. So a part of the premium
every month was going to the mortality expense for the
death benefit, and a part was going to a savings
account that will build up cash value. So when you
surrender the policy, it allows you to take the cash
value out that's been accumulating, if there is any. And
then you could turn around and invest that in mutual funds.
(15:55):
But there is no, you know, direct conversion mechanism. Now,
life insurance doesn't work like a CD or annuity with
a term. It usually you can usually access the cash
whenever you want after enough uh, value has accumulated. But
there can be surrender charges in the first 5 to
(16:16):
10 years. So a lot of that's going to depend
on how long you've had it. But let me stop there.
Does that make sense, Joel.
S5 (16:22):
Yes, that makes great sense.
S1 (16:24):
Okay, great. Yeah. So there's no waiting period. Uh, the
key is, did you get past the surrender period? And
is there cash value? And are you comfortable collapsing the policy,
essentially giving up the death benefit? And if so, then
you could take the money out. Now, if the goal
is to use it for grandkids, then you've got to decide, okay,
(16:45):
what do I want to invest it in? Do I
want to put it in a 529 college savings plan?
Do I want to put it in just some, you know,
some mutual funds in my name, uh, and let it grow.
And then you can choose when to give it to
them down the road, but at least it'd be working
for you in the meantime. You know, I think all
of those options are on the table once you surrender
(17:06):
the policy and get the cash value out.
S5 (17:09):
Sounds like a wonder to me. And a blessing from God. Right?
S1 (17:13):
All right, Joel, you sound like a great grandfather, and
I appreciate your call today, sir. Call anytime. Uh, Michigan's
where we're headed next. Carol. Go ahead.
S6 (17:22):
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Um, I called
a while ago, and I had asked for help with, um, finances,
and I was sent to a Kingdom advisor, and I
told her what I was doing with my budget and everything,
and she said that I didn't need an advisor, that
maybe I could possibly become one. And because I'm 59
years old, I'm disabled. Um, I have problems with my arms,
(17:45):
so I can't use a computer real well. It'll just
make me worse. I just was wondering if it's possible
to even do something like that. Like, very part time.
And what would be the best? Kind of course, to
take for someone that's got disabilities like that?
S1 (17:58):
Yeah, yeah. Very good. Well, I'm sorry to hear about
your disabilities, and but I do appreciate your desire to
help people, especially in this area of financial stewardship. Uh,
you know, um, really what you're describing is what we
would call a financial coach or a financial counselor, and
this is a really fulfilling ministry opportunity. And it's, you know,
(18:21):
really where you can, uh, help people with real world
insight and financial guidance around things like debt repayment, helping them,
you know, set goals, develop a spending plan, you know,
those kinds of things. And we would recommend a training
course and ultimately a certification called the Certified Christian Financial Counselor. Uh,
(18:44):
our friend and ministry partner, doctor Art Rayner, created this.
And it's specifically for people like you that want to be,
you know, either as a ministry volunteer or as a business,
help people with what we would call financial counseling or
financial coaching. So it's not, you know, what a sikayet
(19:04):
would do, which is more in the financial planning and
wealth management. It's really all the things that come before
that around spending plans and and debt repayment. The website
to check out is Christian Financial Health Christian Financial Health.
And you can learn about the Certified Christian Financial counselor.
Now these days, you know, often the way people do
(19:27):
this kind of thing is through the computer where, you know,
you might set up a zoom meeting or a Google
Meet meeting, you'd see somebody face to face, even though
you're not physically in the same location, and you would
help them kind of talk through the mechanics of setting
up their spending plan and developing a plan to get
out of debt and give generously. You know, you could
(19:49):
be that could be as computer dependent as you wanted
it to be. So if you have limited computer use,
then you would just want to help them, you know,
by talking them through all of these things. And that
would be very possible. But the beginning point is really,
I think to get the education and the training, and
that's where I think the Certified Christian Financial Counselor curriculum
(20:11):
would be a real blessing to you. Does that sound
like what you're looking for, Carol?
S6 (20:16):
It does. I just was kind of curious. Um, it
sounds really good. As far as the computer goes. I'm just.
I guess I'm wondering about, like, the course. Would that
involve a lot of computer work? And also, would I
be able to make a little bit of money since
I do need to. Since I'm on disability.
S1 (20:30):
Yeah, yeah. You know, most of the people that earn
certified Christian financial counselor, you know, many of them do
it as a volunteer in their church. But I would
say the majority of them this is they're creating a
small business out of it, and they're essentially charging by
the session or for their time to help people in
this regard. Now, the question is, you know, just given
(20:53):
the limitations, you're essentially building a small business. And so
that means marketing and finding, you know, the people that
need your services. And, you know, a lot of that
is going to be dependent upon how, you know, your
ability to go out and make your services known. Perhaps
the the folks at the Christian Financial Health, um, you know,
(21:15):
could help with that, but that would be an important
conversation to have in terms of how computer intensive it is.
I know you watch the courses on the computer, but
I don't know that it actually requires a lot of
computer inputting, a lot of typing, that kind of thing.
But you certainly would have to navigate to the course
and view it on your computer. So, um, if you're
(21:37):
able to, I would head to Christian Financial Health.com and
then just start, uh, kind of working through the requirements
and see if it might be a good fit for you,
but we'd certainly give it our endorsement. Thanks for your call.
Lord bless you. We'll be right back. Great to have
(22:00):
you with us today on Faith in finance. Live. I'm
Rob West. We do have a few lines open today.
So if you have a question go ahead and call
right now the number is 800 525 7000. Again that
number is 800 525 7000. We would love to hear
from you today and help you think about managing money
God's way according to biblical wisdom. Hey, uh, we do
(22:22):
want to remind you that, uh, this is the time
of year for Samaritan's Purse, Operation Christmas child. That's right.
It's here. It's hard to believe, but Christmas is just
around the corner. But what an opportunity for you and
your family to share the love and hope of Jesus
with a child around the world. It's really simple. We
(22:43):
do it every year in our house. You pack a
shoebox or a few of them with school supplies and
a toy and most importantly, your prayers. And then you
head to Moody Radio, click click on the Operation Christmas
Child banner and you'll find all the instructions and details there.
And it just is such a practical way to live
out generosity. Something we talk about on this program regularly.
(23:07):
And and this is the best part point kids somewhere
in the world to the gospel. A simple shoebox can
carry the greatest gift of all the hope of Jesus
this Christmas season. So if you would consider packing a shoebox,
we'd certainly be grateful. Uh, this, uh, national, uh, shoebox
campaign runs through the 17th of November. And, uh, so
(23:29):
we want you to go ahead and not delay. It's
going to come and go, and you're going to be like, wow,
I missed it. No, don't miss it. Uh, all the
details available. Moody radio.org. Just click on Operation Christmas Child.
You'll see the banner there and you'll get all the details.
Thanks in advance. All right, back to the phones. Michigan
is where we're headed next. Uh, let's talk to Alvin.
Go ahead.
S5 (23:50):
Hey, um, Rob, um, I think his name is Rob.
S1 (23:55):
You got it? Yes, sir.
S5 (23:57):
Yeah, yeah. Who is the best place that you can
invest your money? Like. Like places like Schwab or something
like that?
S1 (24:06):
Yes. Yeah. You know, I would say that, uh, among
the what we call the discount brokerage houses, where you're
not going to spend an arm and a leg and they,
you know, give you a wide array of investment choices,
you know, for a do it yourself or somebody, especially
somebody who's just getting started, I would say either Schwab,
Charles Schwab or Fidelity would be two great options. Now,
(24:28):
if you're looking for what we call a robo advisor,
which is just a fancy way of saying, you know,
it's a low cost way to invest for somebody who's
just starting out. Uh, you know, I would head to, uh,
the Schwab Intelligent Portfolios. So at Charles Schwab, you can
open an account and basically pick your own investments. But
(24:50):
if you want them to do it for you and,
you know, as you add money, automatically reinvest it and
make sure it's properly diversified. Well, that's the Schwab Intelligent Portfolios.
It's a specific product. At Charles Schwab. Another option for
robo advisor would be a company called Betterment Better. Mint.com. Uh,
(25:11):
either of those would be fine. But I think, you know,
those are some really solid companies that have a good reputation.
S5 (25:19):
Mhm. My problem is I'm not a I'm not a
new new. I've been with the company for quite some
time but it, it seemed like they take money from
you then they, it never, it never increases or nothing.
They just you know, it, it just don't it ain't
doing nothing. So I'm, you know, seem like they, you know,
(25:40):
still it going, it should be going up all at
most a little bit all the time shouldn't it.
S1 (25:47):
Well it's all going to come down to what are
the investments that you selected inside the account. Do you
have a do you have a sense of the kinds
of investments you're in?
S5 (25:57):
Uh, all I know, I'm in probably at least four,
four different, uh, whatever you call it. Four different, uh, things,
you know, four different, um, four. It spread it out.
S1 (26:11):
Okay. Got it. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, Schwab,
if that's where you're at at Charles Schwab, I mean,
they're a very low cost provider. So, you know, they're
about the lowest in the industry. And a lot of
their ETFs are called MTF, no transaction fee. And some
of them have very low expense ratios. So, you know,
there's no reason, you know, that the the fees should
(26:34):
be a drag on it. It really is going to
come down to what are the investments you have in
your portfolio. And with the market doing as well as
it's done, you know, over the last couple of decades,
and certainly in particular the last couple of years, there's
no reason why that account shouldn't be growing. And so
that tells me you need somebody to look it over
and figure out why is it that your portfolio is
(26:56):
underperforming the market? Um, let me ask you, Alvin, how
much do you have roughly in that Schwab account?
S5 (27:04):
You know, it's not Schwab.
S1 (27:07):
Oh. I'm sorry. Where is it?
S5 (27:08):
Where is it? No. Okay. It's it's in it's it's
in an account called, uh, Prime America. Prime Primerica Insurance Company.
S1 (27:17):
Got it. Yeah, I'm familiar with it. Yeah. What? Where
and how much do you have at Primerica?
S5 (27:23):
You know, last time, I think last time, it was, uh,
30 some thousand between probably 37 and 40. If it's
having dropped, you know. Yeah, but it's been there for
it's been it's been, it's been come down from there.
It was up in the 40s but it's come down
(27:44):
to 30 something. Yeah. And it and it never goes up.
S1 (27:48):
Yeah. Yeah. I would say that Primerica would be considered
relatively expensive compared with many other investment advisor or brokerage offerings. Uh,
you know, depending on the account size. I mean, their,
their fees tend to be, uh, higher than the industry,
that's for sure. And, you know, if the higher fees
(28:09):
combined with, uh, lackluster investments, you know, that that's a
recipe for the kind of thing you're describing here. So
I think, you know, what you may want to look
at is moving to something that's more of a low
cost provider. And maybe, you know, you might want to
look to something that, you know, that is more like
(28:30):
the the robo advisors that I just described, because that
way you're not trying to pick the winners and losers.
You're just capturing the broad moves of the market, which again,
has done very well, and you're not going to have
a lot of fees putting a drag on the portfolio.
And I would just say that, you know, Primerica would
(28:51):
be on the more expensive side. So I think you're
on to something there.
S5 (28:55):
I believe that, I swear I believe you. So you
were saying Schwab and who else was it?
S1 (29:00):
Uh, betterment would be the other one. But the first
one is Schwab, Intelligent Portfolios.
S5 (29:07):
Schwab and so forth. So I can just probably call Schwab.
S1 (29:11):
You can or just go online and type that into
your search engine and it'll come right up. But, Alvin,
I think you're on the right track. Listen, I'm going
to send you a book. It's called the Sound Mind
Investing Handbook, and I think it might acquaint you with,
you know, a few of these ideas around investing just
so you're a little more knowledgeable as you go into
whatever you think is next. Uh, I think this will
(29:32):
be a nice resource. Just to give you a little
bit bigger base of knowledge in the investing world, because
it can be complicated. There's a lot of terms and,
you know, a lot of things that you're expected to understand. And,
you know, when you don't know exactly what you're looking at,
it can make it really challenging. So hopefully this will help.
It's our gift to you, Alvin. So stay on the line.
We'll send you the Sound Mind Investing Handbook and Lord
(29:54):
bless you, sir. Uh, let's go to Texas. Hi, Rebecca.
Go ahead.
S7 (29:58):
Hi. Um, I'm calling for a friend of mine, um,
who has no income coming in. They're searching for work,
and they have $15,100 in And credit card debt from
three credit cards ones, at 29%, has 6400, one is
(30:20):
at 0% until April, and it has 7200, and another
one is 0% until February, and that has $1,500 on it.
They need $2,000 in dental care and they have 7500
in cash. They're trying to figure out what's the best way.
S1 (30:42):
Yeah that's tough. All right. This is a hard spot.
High interest debt, no income and urgent dental work. We'll
talk about it right after the break. Stay there. Rebecca,
we'll be right back. Well, it's a big day here
at Faith fi. That's right. Our new devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure,
(31:03):
goes to the printer tomorrow. So you know what that means.
Like the teams here. Like, it's all. There's copies printed
out and all over the office, and they're like, going
through every line and every word. And we've got the
reviewers and, you know, our writers and Taylor, who's uh,
one of our lead writers, is going through it, and Afton,
(31:25):
who leads our content here. And it's a really exciting time.
But I'll tell you, we are so thrilled about what
this resource is going to mean for you, because it
really is that resource we've always wanted that distills really
the counsel of Scripture down into a 21 day devotional
that I think is going to expose you to really
(31:46):
the big ideas for faithful stewardship in Scripture. I mean,
it starts with day one, our ultimate treasure, and then
God owns it all. God is our provider. Money is
a tool. Choosing contentment. Spending reflects our values. Work as worship.
You know, living with margin, the paradox of planning and
all the way through. And it'll be out at the
(32:06):
end of January and we literally can't wait for you
to get your hands on it. So these are the
kinds of resources we produce here at Faith Fi. And
it's all about helping you, God's people, manage God's money
God's way. Because in Scripture, we see God's heart as
it relates to the role of money. What is money
and how should we interact with it? And how should
(32:27):
we be careful that it doesn't compete with our affections?
And how do we not get caught up in the
things of this world, but use it as something to
bless others and to promote human flourishing, and to enjoy
and to provide and all the things that God intended.
We want to help you pursue that. And we think this, uh,
this new devotional is going to do just that. It'll
(32:48):
be out in the end of January. And one of
the ways that you can ensure that you get your
copy is when you support Faith five between now and
the end of December, uh, every gift of any amount
is going to ensure this beautiful hardback devotional comes to
your door. So just head to faith. Com and by
the way, every gift will be doubled, which is amazing
(33:09):
because we have some friends that love the ministry. That said,
up to $175,000 until December 31st, we're going to match
and literally double every gift. So if you would give
generously right now, at this point in the season, as
we head toward the end of the year, we would
be incredibly grateful and it would be our honor to
send you this new devotional that heads to the printer
(33:30):
literally tomorrow. We can't wait. All right, let's head back
to the phones. Uh, you know, we were talking to
Rebecca in Texas before the break, and, uh, Rebecca, I
understand your your friend has three credit cards, 15,000 with
a high interest rate, and then a couple of introductory
rate cards. They only have 7000 in cash. They need
some some dental work done. But tell me about the
(33:51):
income situation. You said there's no income whatsoever. Is there
an issue there with their ability to work or are
they just in between jobs? What's going on with that?
S7 (34:02):
In between jobs they were laid off, um, their unemployment
ran through. Um, and so they, they're kind of living
off of another friend, but he has, uh, dental work
that it's emergent. Yeah. So, yeah, ask me what he
(34:23):
should do. And I really never been in that position.
S1 (34:26):
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, the most important thing,
and this goes without saying, is they need income. So
without income, no debt strategy will work. Not not consolidation,
not snowballing, not balance transfers. None of it works without
any income. And so, you know, every part of the
solution hinges on restoring some kind of income, even part
(34:47):
time or temporary work. Now God is our provider, not
the US government, not your employer. So we trust the Lord.
We we lay the bills out on the table, including
those dental bills, and say, God, you know we need
your provision here. We trust you completely. But part of
that means we work with our hands and we work hard.
And the good news is, and I realize that doesn't
(35:08):
matter unless it applies to you. But we're in a
basically an economy right now that has a full labor force.
I mean, you know, for the most part, people who
want to work can find a job. It's not like
we're in a recession. It's not like unemployment is way up.
You know, there are jobs available. It may not be
the exact job they're looking for, but I think the
(35:29):
key is right now that they get out there, despite
the fact that they have great friends who are willing
to help. Their full time job today is finding that
next job, whether it's part time or temporary, whatever it is. Because,
you know, without that income, they're not going to be
able to keep up. If the the dental work is
an emergency, well, then they've got to do it. And
(35:51):
I think, you know, I would be really honest with
the medical provider. And normally they're willing to work with you.
I mean they may need to use that, uh, you know,
part of that 7000 in cash. I wouldn't put it
on the credit card. Um, but, you know, this is
an emergency, and they need to get it done. But
I think, you know, maybe getting on a payment plan
where you slowly, you know, pull the money from the
(36:13):
7000 in cash until employment is restored. Uh, that would
probably be the way to go. But in terms of
looking at some solution like consolidation or debt management, you know,
for the credit, I wouldn't touch any of that until
they secure a job because none of that is going
to work and it's actually going to create more problems.
(36:34):
If you try to start one of those programs and
you can't see it through because you just have to
have income in order to do it.
S7 (36:41):
Correct I agree.
S1 (36:43):
Yeah.
S7 (36:43):
Yeah.
S1 (36:44):
So so I would just encourage them be praying for
them that listen, your primary job right now is to
go out and find a job that is absolutely essential. Uh,
I think I cut you off there. What were you
going to say?
S7 (36:56):
Uh, they have been trying to secure a job. And
the dentist, um, The two dentists that he has consulted
with have asked for the money up front.
S1 (37:05):
Yeah, okay.
S7 (37:07):
Well, that makes it hard.
S1 (37:09):
Yeah.
S7 (37:09):
They have a, like, a credit card for dental care,
but then we're, you know.
S1 (37:16):
Yeah, well, I would talk to the dentist and maybe
they need to shop around about a cash discount, you know,
because a lot of times, you know, the fees are
based on them getting, you know, a certain amount from insurance.
And if they know this person not only is paying cash,
but in a hardship situation, you know, perhaps they could
(37:36):
find a discounted rate. I would also check with your
local church. You know, I mean their church, their benevolence
department may be the solution here, at least for the
medical side of it. And then, you know, we can
solve for the the money to keep the food on
the table and the lights on and gas in the
car and a roof over their head. Those are the
kind of the big four priorities moving forward. But I
(37:58):
would say shop around and let's see if they can't
find somebody who would give them a cash discount and
perhaps work with them on a monthly payment situation. So.
Lord bless you, Rebecca. Thanks for journeying alongside them. I
know this is difficult. We'll ask our faith and finance community.
Be praying for your friends. Uh, let's go to Chicago. Hi, Cynthia.
Go ahead.
S8 (38:18):
Hi, how are you? And God bless you. Thank you
so much for taking my call. Of course, I am
calling because I have, um, some debt with credit card
and a small loans, probably totaling about 30,000 right now. Um,
I have a mortgage loan that's completely under my name alone. Um,
and me and my husband and I were wondering what
(38:38):
would be our best option, whether it's taking a line
of equity against our loan or refinancing, possibly with both
of our names, um, and getting money back from that
refinance to do some work on our debt as well
as some renovations with our home.
S1 (38:54):
Yeah. So I wouldn't want you to touch that first
mortgage because, I mean, that's a great interest rate down
under 4%. You're not going to get anywhere close to
that today. Not to mention the fact that if you've
had it for some time, you know that, uh, you know,
you're paying, uh, in the early days of a mortgage,
you're paying more toward interest, less toward principal. So the
(39:16):
longer you have it, the more that flips to where
you're paying more toward principal, less toward interest. So you
don't want to reset that for that reason. And you
certainly don't want to double that interest rate, which is
basically what would happen if you refinanced. Um, I'm not
a big fan of taking out, uh, home, a home
loan to pay off credit card debt because that that
(39:37):
credit card debt is unsecured, meaning it's not collateralized by
anything other than, you know, just you personally. The moment
you refinance it and put it on your home. Number one,
you've just, you know, tied your home to your ability
to repay it, which is not the case currently. And
number two, even though the interest rate comes down. Oftentimes
we pay it back over a much longer period of time.
(40:00):
And so you might not save as much interest as
you expect. So I'd leave the first mortgage where it is.
I would probably look at a debt management program for
that 30,000, which is simply where you leave. You leave
the credit cards right where they are. Whatever lenders you have,
if you're with Chase, you stay with Chase. If you're
at Citi, you stay with city. But through the debt
management program with our friends at Christian Credit Counselors, they
(40:24):
would help you get those interest rates down often to
between 0 and 10%, which is probably, you know, a
third of what it is today or less. And, you know,
then every payment a lot more is going to principal.
And and you don't take out a new loan or
anything like that. Now, if you're wanting to do some
renovations on the house and you have the money to
(40:46):
do it, meaning you, you know, can pay it back
in a reasonable period of time, then I think that
is the reason why you'd want to take out a
home equity line of credit. The reason I wouldn't take
a home equity loan is you're going to lock it
in at about an 8% rate. And I don't want
you to lock in at 8%. If you get a
home equity line of credit, you can probably find one
(41:07):
right now if you have good credit at seven and
a half. But it's going to be variable, which means
as the rate comes down over the next couple of years,
your rate will follow. And so you'll end up saving
money on interest over time. And so but I would
I would leave that home equity line of credit exclusively
for those home renovations. I wouldn't try to roll the
credit cards in.
S9 (41:28):
Got it. Perfect. Thank you so much. Okay.
S1 (41:31):
All right. You're welcome. Hey, shop around because there's some
lenders out there right now that are offering no fee
home equity lines of credit. I know Bank of America
was one of them, uh, a while back. I don't
know if they still are, but if you do your homework,
you can find one that's close to prime plus zero.
You know, you might find them Prime plus 1% or
prime plus two. Look for something. prime plus zero, prime
(41:54):
plus one half, and then also look for one where
there's no fees like they'll pay the bank will pay
for the appraisal, and there's no origination costs and no
application fee. That's what you're going to want to look for.
And if you do your homework online, you could probably
find one that's offering some of those incentives. Cynthia, thanks
for your call today. All the best to you and
your husband. And I'm so sorry we didn't get to
(42:16):
you today. If you want to stay on the line,
our team, we'll see if we can get you scheduled
to be first up on the program tomorrow. Thanks for
your call today, folks. That's going to do it for
us again. Operation Christmas Child is in full effect. Head
to Moody Radio to learn more. And also if you
want to support our work here at Faith Fi here
at the end of the year, it's a critical time
for us to hear from you. Every gift doubled and
(42:37):
every gift ensures you'll get our new devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure,
in January. Just go to give Josh, Taylor and Lisa
the amazing team today. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye bye.
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